December 6, 2022 • 39 mins
Skyline Drive has been selected as an Apple Podcasts Series Essential!
Meet Jean, a 74-year old romantic who decides she's finally open to astrology as she works to rebuild her life. Meanwhile, NYC astrologer Janelle Belgrave joins the team to offer some much-needed counsel; we interview a midwestern therapist who secretly uses astrology to better understand her clients, and Mangesh and his family hold on to hope in the face of some alarming news.
Listen to the Skyline Drive mixtape Vol 1 and Vol 2.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Warning. The following show includes discussion of escorts, drugs, septagenarian
Tinder eclipses, star powered therapy, and Donald Trump's former former
former lawyer. For listeners with Victorian sensibilities, please keep a
fan and smelling salts nearby.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
So I guess my biggest question is am I ever
going to have sex with somebody again?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
We're sitting in Jean Lebec's third floor apartment right off
the ninety third Street stop in Bay Ridge. Jean is
a former teacher, just like my mom, roughly the same age,
seventy four, but Jean's a New York four. She's got
that city girl edge.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
My name is Jean Anne Lebec, and I am a storyteller.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
The sex question, it's big for Jean because she was
married for forty one years and she expected to stay
married forever. But right before the city went into lockdown,
her marriage dissolved, and it's taken her about three years
to get to this point.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
The truth is, I don't want to marry anything. I'm
not looking for that, and I don't want to live
with anybody. I'm not looking for that.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
But she is craving something. It's some form of intimacy.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So my daughter is my biggest support and fan, and
when I've told her these stories about you know, guys
who just really want to sex text to they don't
really want to go further than that.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
All the weird men that I have had a date with.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Just okay, Now here's where we're at right now. I
think what you need to do is call up in
court service.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
That's right. It's early on a Saturday morning. I am
barely awake, haven't even had my cup of coffee, and
I'm pretty sure I'm hearing her right, Like, is this
sweet seventy four year old woman really asking permission to
hire somebody?
Speaker 5 (02:24):
You're there, and it's a very clear cut relationship, you know,
hire them for four hours.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
I don't know if an astrologer can help with that.
I don't know if any astrologer has ever been asked
whether it's the right time to hire an escort.
Speaker 6 (02:42):
But we're about to find out.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcast, I'm Monga's Shatika thear Welcome
to Skyline Drive Chapter one, pound Cake and Chemo. So
(03:35):
let's talk a second about Jean's question and questions like these. Well,
I ever have a partner that feels safe and secure.
Why do scorpios get such a bad wrap.
Speaker 7 (03:47):
I'm kind of curious how many dogs I will have
in my life?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Is it insane to consider trying to be a stand
up comedian as.
Speaker 7 (03:55):
A man who is rapidly balding?
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Will any of my hair ever grow back? That's what
the show was supposed to be, finding people with questions
I'd never think to ask, pairing them with an astrologer,
then generally having a good time. And I was going
to take this anthropological view of it all like stand back,
watch without judgment, try to understand and enjoy. But just
(04:20):
as our production was about to get off the ground,
I traveled to Queen's to get a reading from a
random astrologer. And that astrologer he warned me that my
dad's health would soon take a drastic turn. Within twenty minutes,
my dad had emailed me that the cancer had spread
through his liver. So now a few days later, I'm
(04:40):
in Kanye's, Georgia. Kanye's is mostly famous for being a
speed trap on the road between Atlanta and Athens, and
my parents settled here because my dad took a job
down the road a few years back, but little else
(05:00):
that would have drawn them here, Like there are strip
malls and waffle houses, banks, targets, and then these quiet
winding roads that veer off it with names like Christian Circle.
The doctor's office is tucked away on one of these
winding roads, and we're waiting for the doctor in a
little exam room. It's actually the way my dad wants it.
All of us here, my mom, sister, me, and I'm
(05:24):
a little surprised when the doctor walks in and he's Indian.
Speaker 8 (05:28):
So the pathology report still says preliminary.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
I didn't know that they had more of us out
in conyers. I like him immediately. He seems to really
know and care about my dad, and he's concerned for
us too, But when he starts, it's clear the news
isn't good.
Speaker 7 (05:48):
Show that.
Speaker 9 (05:49):
Then Dialima was started by small tumors, numerous tumors, Bawns.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
It turns out it's an aggressive small self cancer. It's
going to need an aggressive response.
Speaker 8 (06:01):
The painting is okay, but your disease is behaving way
too press Now it's wonderful.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I've turned on my voice recorder, not for podcasting, but
because I'm feeling lightheaded. Uneasy about how much of this
information I'll retain, and so far it sounds like the
chemo can only do so much.
Speaker 9 (06:22):
Why did I say it's not that great news? Because
small SI lung cancer is notorious not to stay in
control with chemotherapy. It goes away, but it comes right back.
So not a good diagnosis at all, but very treatable
in its current situation.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
This whole thing is basically cancer. Whack them all. You
can bat the cancer back, cheer a little, and then
start again until time runs out. The only time I
smile is when my dad asks timidly, oh, yes.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
I've heard that medical Mario and I can help.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
With And I think I remember my friend Howard when
his dad got cancer. Howard got him a pound cake
loaded with THHC and they spent the night laughing as
his dad shared memories along with these ridiculous life goals,
like how his one regret as a young man in
China was that he'd never taken a shit on the
(07:18):
doorstep of the French embassy. Anyway, I daydreamed a little
about sourcing some edibles and playing my dad's favorite records
as we chat through the night before I hear this you.
Speaker 8 (07:31):
Really don't want tellily parents to be dealing with metastatic
cancer three hundred miles away. It's just not invariably, no
matter how smold the treatment, as Lonely martins.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
In the best case scenario, we'll get three to four
more years with my dad. That's if the treatment takes.
It's something to hope for. But it's more likely we'll
get three to four months. The thing is, there's no
time to waste. A nurse wheels my dad to a
different wing to begin the chemo immediately. My mom's trying
to be brave, but she's still dazed. I tug at
(08:10):
her arm and hold it as we walk to the car.
Everything is daunting, but it also feels manageable. So instead
of worrying, I focus on our wish list. My dad
still speaks some Portuguese from his childhood in Goa, and
I know he wants to see Lisbon. I know he
wants to see his grandkids more. He wants to see
(08:32):
my sister get married. So I'm thinking, what can I do?
What money do we need? How can I move my
schedule around? Four months is not a lot of time,
but I'm going to make it feel like enough Chapter two,
(09:03):
Secrets and Lies.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
I lived in a family with a lot of secrets.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Secrets are the thing that shaped Jean, and I have
a feeling, it's what's driven her to tell these beautiful,
unvarnished stories about herself. Inside her place, past the entry
and the kitchen doorway and the hallway lined with photos,
there's a living room filled with vintage furniture stuff you'd
cover it from your favorite thrift store. Jane tells me
(09:33):
to sit anywhere, make myself comfortable, and so I do,
first on this bright, beautiful sofa, and then on an
ottoman just a little closer, doer.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I grew up right here in Brooklyn, matt and bay Ridge,
Button Crown Hearts, which is now a groovy, groovy place
to live, But during those days it was a hard
working Irish Catholic neighborhood and we were the only Jewish families.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Kids playing marbles, why nickel, hanging out on studs, running
around the neighborhood until the lamp posts flicker and you
just know it's time to raise home. It all sounds
so idyllic, but her childhood was also cloaked in something
darker because of her parents' political leanings.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
We lived this kind of life of secrets and lives.
They couldn't tell anybody they were American Communists. They couldn't
tell anybody they knew. Julison Ethel Rosenberg.
Speaker 7 (10:24):
Run for me, oh refresher on. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Julius Rosenberg a Taurus and Ethel Rosenberg a Libra, met
and fell in love at the Young Communist League.
Speaker 7 (10:41):
When Torres and libre come together in a love affair,
it can be the unification of two halves of a whole.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Julius had a steady job working for the Army Signal
Corps as an engineer, but he was fired for being a.
Speaker 7 (10:56):
Socialist Communism What is it?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Who are the apostles of a system that attempts to
destroy the American way of life? In the nineteen forties
and fifties, a communist panic swept across America, set off
by a Scorpio named Senator Joseph McCarthy. McCarthy was known
for his wild and sensational attacks.
Speaker 10 (11:20):
The Scorpio zodiac sign concerns itself with beginnings and endings
and is unafraid of either. They also travel in a
world that is black and white and has little use
for gray.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
At the time, Hollywood directors, prominent politicians, and government insiders
were terrified for their lives and careers. In nineteen fifty,
the couple was put on trial for passing atomic secrets
to the Soviets. The Rosenbergs claimed innocence, but they still
got the electric chair. The man who prosecuted them, a
twenty three year old pisces named Roy Kohane. One witness
(11:56):
from the trial, tried to take back his testimony. He
said the reason he lied on the stand was because
con had threatened to lock up his wife and make
life hell for his family.
Speaker 7 (12:06):
Many people associate pisces with dreams and secrets. As a
mutable sign.
Speaker 10 (12:12):
ICs holds a damptist, fluid and sheep shifting quality.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Anyway, back to Gene, it makes sense that her family
hid the fact that they were close with the Rosenbergs,
but that wasn't the only secret they were hiding.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
My sister's gay Being gay during those times was really
a horrifying thing. And I remember when she told me
she was gay, I thought this was the greatest thing
I ever heard, and she was like, you can I
tell us so nobody can know about.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
This like being Communist, being Jewish, being gay was just
another thing she couldn't talk about. As she's telling me
about her past, it makes more sense why Jean's welcomed
me in why she's agreed to talk. The thing is,
Gene is a total romantic.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
One of my favorite stories that I told was the
time I had my first orgasm. I had been married,
I had a baby, and still didn't know my own body.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
It's the nineteen seventies and Geine is in her twenties,
a single mom with a kid. She had briefly been
married to her high school sweetheart, and now she's working
at this daycare center where she has this colleague named Mona,
and they are a lot alike. They're both putting themselves
through school in the evenings. They both have little girls
that are the same age.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
We formed this friendship with each other, and then one
night we went to see this movie and we're sitting
in the car and she looks at me and says,
you know, I really feel like kissing you.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
I said, so kiss.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
That kiss was like fireworks.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
I mean, Mona and I had been intimate, but I
never had an orgasm.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
After this orgasm, she put on candles and everything, and
she looked at me and said, you know, sweetie, you
could do this anytime you want.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
I mean, the whole idea of that kind of power.
Speaker 11 (14:08):
And so.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
I begin to be kind of a crazy masturbator, you know.
Speaker 12 (14:13):
I would like go to my job at the daycare center,
and it was lunchtime, NiFe went back, and so it
was this whole description of just feeling giddy with this
kind of new fountain me.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Mona would move away not long after leaving the city,
but it wasn't long before Jeane would fall in love again.
In fact, in some ways, her next love would hit
her even harder. Here's a story she told at the Moth.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
It's assembly day and I am so nervous. My class
is putting on a play for the entire school, and
I'm walking down the auditorium the center aisle carrying all
these props. And takes my hand to help me navigate
up the stage steps, and my hand melts into his,
and his hand melts into mine. Our fingers linger, never
(15:02):
wanting to let go. And as Miss.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Hall crosses the stage to go to.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
The piano, and kids are getting their assembly seats, and
the ring is beating against the window.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
We fall madly in.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Love Geane and that teacher I don't want. They get married,
raise their daughter together, and then a son too. They
become grandparents together, and then one morning, forty one years later.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Over coffee, said I'm leaving.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Her husband came clean about another woman he'd been seeing,
But it wasn't long before Jean realized there were more.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
He was having copious amounts of affairs. It was almost
like a house of cards fell down. He's an expert
con man. He swept me off my feet. It was
almost like that love that you know you think you're
never ever going to find again, and then it all
just kind of crash and I had to kind of
weed through the betrayal.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
It didn't take much detective work for Gane to realize
he'd been cheating since the start of their relationship, with friends, colleagues,
random women along the way. Jean was heartbroken. She still is,
and it's tainted the way she looks at the.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Past, because I see a happy family, but I think,
was he involved with this woman then?
Speaker 4 (16:16):
Or who is he involved with?
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Then? Jeane is done grieving. She no longer wants to
look backwards.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
What is this next?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Journey about for myself because I feel like I'm at
the brink of something.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
I just don't know what the break is. I don't
know what something is.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
The truth is, Jean does not believe in astrology. She's
had opportunities before to have her chart read, but she's
never really seen the point.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You know, my sister was into astrology, but you know,
we all thought it was bullshit, you know, and I
always thought, like, please have a glass of wine, relax,
it's more meaningful than this.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
But that was then Today, at seventy four, Jean recognizes
how precious her time is over and over. She tells me,
I've got ten years, ten good years to drink in
all the richness of life already.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Told you lying even down.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And if there's any chance that astrology can unlock that secret,
she's open to it. Oh, and there's still the matter
of the escorts. More on that after the break. Chapter three.
(17:35):
Wheels that Work.
Speaker 13 (17:38):
You know, I don't think humans hang on two things
that don't work, Like the wheel is awesome, like we
still use it. We don't say, oh, this wheel is
out of date, Like no, it's functional, right. So that's
the same thing with astrology, Like we don't study this
stuff because it doesn't work.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Over the summer, my friends and I started the search
for a house astrologer for this show. We thought hard
about using doctor Kamar, but I was reluctant. Looking back,
it's obvious why doctor Kamar's predictions had set off a
chain of events that I just needed to compartmentalize away
from this show. I needed a different experience, and Janelle
(18:20):
Belgrave is definitely that. She is sunny and relentlessly encouraging,
and the first time I chatted with her, I was
smiling the whole time, like I love the way she
peppered the conversation with this secret knowledge of just how
pervasive astrology is.
Speaker 13 (18:37):
If you don't think there are multi billionaires using astrology
to get ahead, let me tell you something.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
They're out there. I mean, that's what my whole show
was supposed to peek into, but it was actually something
more than that. As my little team of skeptics here
talked about the production, we decided that using Janelle almost
seemed faded. Like when Mary Amitra set out to find
an astrologer for the show, they independently made lists and somehow,
not only did they both find Janelle, but they both
(19:05):
had her as their top choice, so we chalked it
up to destiny and rolled with it. Janelle's real New
York too, She's from Queen's and her parents are immigrants
from Panama. Janelle's doesn't sugarcoat things, so when I asked
(19:31):
her about the birthdate for the show and the show's timing, well,
let's just say she was less optimistic than doctor Kamar,
who told me this show was going to be a
mega hit.
Speaker 14 (19:42):
So you guys said that it was May sixteenth, nine
thirty nine am in Brooklyn.
Speaker 7 (19:47):
New York.
Speaker 14 (19:48):
Correct, Yeah, yeah, right, okay, right, okay, So you guys
are a Torus sun, a cancer rising moon in Sagittarius.
You guys planned this right under an eclipse, which is
really interesting, not necessarily bad, but eclipse energy can be
(20:09):
very volatile, right.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I guess I've got a temper my expectations. But even
when Janelle's prepping you for a turbulent time ahead, I
like how she's still encouraging.
Speaker 13 (20:21):
You're starting under a lot of retrogrades, and that's okay,
but you just have to know that you can have
to be patient use that to your benefit.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Now, this isn't aside. But last year I started giving
monsterra plants away to people who have been going through
hard things. It is a super instagrammable plant, but that's
not why I like it. The monster is unusual. If
left in the dark, exhibit something called negative phototropism, where
all the new stems will actually grow into the darkness.
(20:55):
It's a clever trick. In the jungle, darkness signals the
presence of a larger tree, so the monster trusts that
it can lean into the shadows and pool all of
its energy into climbing that trunk because it believes sunlight
will come. I like that reminder because I've needed that reminder.
And that's what's so great about Janelle. The beauty She's
(21:17):
found in reminding people that hope still exists.
Speaker 13 (21:22):
There's always hope in the darkest moments of our life.
And when you look back and say, yeah, there was
that some person that came to me that day and
said something, and that was the thing I needed to
get to the next day, and that next day was miraculous.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
There's a joy in pairing up a couple you have
a good feeling about. Gene is so clearly yearning and
I wanted to witness what magic might come out when
you put Jeanne and Janelle and all their stars and
their stories in a room together. Chapter four. You don't
(22:09):
want to waste a minute. It's months before I see
Gene again. We are sitting in our apartment. This time
it's my producer, Mitra and me, and we've set up
a consult with Janelle. But twenty minutes in, everything is
going wrong. Sound Waves are flashing across the laptop, but
apparently it hasn't been taping. Worse, the backup recorder got jammed,
(22:32):
and then our batteries died. It's like this taping is jens.
Of course, Janelle doesn't miss a beat. She makes a
crack about eclipses and the universe, showing us just how
real astrology is, and she reminds us that if we've
tried this a few days from now, everything would have
gone smoothly. We all laugh, but we try again.
Speaker 14 (22:53):
Okay, so where should we start?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
In my head, I'm screaming escorts. We've got to talk
about courts. If you listen to the tape from fifteen
minutes ago, it is all static, but what you would
have heard? What I wish we still had was the
discussion and where it began. Before Jean had even said
the word escort, Janelle basically said, Jeane, your chart is
(23:18):
telling me that you're meant to go enjoy yourself. The
universe wants you to enjoy yourself. So go on dates,
go on hikes, go have sex, Go do the things
that feel fun. But I don't have that tape because
I started this show in an eclipse, and somehow it's
easier to tell myself that to make that the excuse
(23:42):
than to stop Gene from taking the conversation in the
direction she needs it to go.
Speaker 5 (23:50):
I have been feeling like I'm on the edge of something,
but I don't know what that looks like.
Speaker 14 (23:54):
Huh, I gotcha, Okay, Sash.
Speaker 13 (23:57):
She wanted to take you back to your last new
moon that you had, though basically this is just to
show you that there's no such thing as like linear
time in astrology. So when we are at a new
moon phase in our life, it's when we're starting a
brand new chapter. We've ended one chapter. Okay, So back
in twenty eleven, April twenty eleven, you had a new
(24:18):
moon happen in your progressed chart at nineteen.
Speaker 14 (24:21):
Degrees of aris. So if you can think back to
what was happening in your life in twenty eleven, I.
Speaker 15 (24:26):
Can tell you I know exactly what was happening because
that was so I can't believe you just said that.
Speaker 11 (24:30):
I'm blown away.
Speaker 14 (24:32):
Really Okay, hold that thought, don't game. Don't give it
away just yet. So I want us to kind of
flow through it. So back then you plant it seas right,
then you're going to track the moon.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
As she continues, Janelle traces her cursor over the flow
of the moon through Jane's sign, and she shows her
how the moon is moved with her over the years.
Speaker 14 (24:49):
So around probably, I would say twenty sixteen or so
is when things probably got a little bit rocky, especially
when it came to marriage. Oh yeah, so September of
twenty nineteen maybe would have been a time where things
might have got a little bit tough.
Speaker 11 (25:05):
Oh my god, yeah, I have the chills. I do
have the chills.
Speaker 13 (25:12):
To show you how astrology works, to show you the timing.
So we're seeing this moon hit with Pluto, right, so
possibly endings, deaths, changes, transformations, endings, endings.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
The scene reminds me of what my friend Pete the
rock star astrologer told me this concept of Joe TISHMATI
what you're going for in a great reading, like that
shared connection between astrologer and the person being read, passing
the light of awareness.
Speaker 11 (25:41):
I'm really sitting here completely overwhelmed.
Speaker 15 (25:44):
I have to tell you because when you, let's say
a specific thing like September, you know, twenty nineteen, September
twenty fifth, twenty nineteen, looked me in the face and said, bye.
Speaker 11 (25:56):
Bye, I'm leaving you for another woman. And so that's
a month.
Speaker 15 (26:00):
That's a time I don't really no one really knows, like, oh,
that happened.
Speaker 11 (26:04):
But then when you just said it was like you
did not just say that, but.
Speaker 14 (26:09):
Yeah, right. Sometimes it's very literal. Pluto is the planet,
that's the planet of death and transformation and saying this
is the end.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I'm watching the two of them, and it's clear something
has clicked. In just a few minutes. Gene is transformed
from this person who is I guess, willing to give
astrology a chance, to someone who's sitting on her hands
to stop herself from waving them so excitedly. Despite the screen,
there is an intensity between them. Every month or date
(26:39):
Janelle throws out seems to provoke this avalanche of memories,
and each time Gene is about to let out this
rush of words like just let them spill it from
her mouth, Janelle smiles like a chest Shire cat and
she tells her to hold it in just a little more.
Janelle is confident there's power and astrology. She's felt it
for decades now, but in this moment, that power is
(27:01):
so clear. It's animating every dopamine receptor in Jean's brain
and she is buzzing, glowing with electricity.
Speaker 13 (27:10):
I know, but I have two and a half years
to make use of this energy. I have to do
it otherwise it's not going to come back for another
fourteen years.
Speaker 7 (27:17):
Right.
Speaker 14 (27:18):
I don't want to have to waste that time, right exactly.
Speaker 11 (27:21):
No, I don't.
Speaker 5 (27:21):
I at seventy four, you don't want to waste a minute.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
About the gully Gully pay not just a heart of
bunny to get you job headed off. Chapter five, A
Couch with a View. My sister's a psychologist, a PhD.
And we have this line we use about Indians. It's
okay to be a psychiatrist, but it's not okay to
(27:55):
see a psychiatrist. Years ago, when my wife and I
were looking into international adoption from India, the forms indicated
that if you'd ever seen a psychiatrist, you'd be disqualified
from adopting. I'm ashamed to admit that for years it
kept me from seeing a grief counselor. I mean, along
with all the other stresses of life. I lost a
(28:17):
cousin to a suicide and a best friend to an overdose,
and I struggled. I was a shell of myself. The
truth is, in those years, I was not a great
dad or a great husband, and I could have used
the therapy, but I also didn't want to limit our
options as potential parents anyway. For Indians, including the Indian government,
(28:40):
the stigma is real. So things like religion and astrology
they fill the gap and it makes sense right. Astrology
allows you to put a symbol on something that's hard
to name and to reframe your problems from a different lens.
It's therapy for people who just don't want to go
to therapy. But what happens when those notions are flipped,
(29:01):
Like what if your therapist was secretly powering their sessions,
using the stars to amplify their understanding of you, because
that's what Ava does.
Speaker 16 (29:13):
Oh my god, I feel like I'm a little bashful.
Speaker 11 (29:15):
I'm a licensed therapist.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Ava, which is not her real name, is a successful
trauma therapist from the Midwest, and she's keenly aware of
the baggage that astrology carries.
Speaker 16 (29:25):
Do I worry if I bring it up people don't
take me seriously. Of course, for younger clients, I think
it's kind of almost a way of connecting. But yeah,
my clients who are older, it's a little bit more
of a finesse.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
So before she dives in with a new client, she
floats a few questions to see just how open she
can be with them.
Speaker 16 (29:45):
It's something that I kind of test the waters to
see are they into astrology? Is it something they're not
at into right? And if they are, it's wonderful because
we can fold that into our understanding, like holy shit,
like Saturn and Mars are being transited by Saturn. That,
from what you're telling me, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Of course, even when they're not into astrology, AVA still
keeps an eye on their chart.
Speaker 16 (30:08):
I still have their birthdays. I can see where their
planets are, which isn't to say that that changes how
I show up to them. My number one job is
to be here with the client therapy, existing in this
world of diagnoses and insurance and all these things that
are trying to make it be short and get people
back to work and make people legible in this really
(30:32):
fucked up system. Right, So much of that is not
helpful in the actual work of therapy. But I think
astrology just it allows me to kind of ground back
into the trust of having this big perspective in this
small perspective. At the same time.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
There are so many people who see therapy and astrology
at odds with one another, but Ava, she hopes there's
new ways about thinking about both because both have the
ability to give you agency. I mean, isn't that what
we go to therapy for. Isn't that what we want
from astrology, to access perspectives big and small, because so
(31:10):
much of what we're looking for is someone to tell
us what really matters, what we can set aside, and
to teach us what to spend our precious time on.
Speaker 16 (31:20):
This idea of human progress is linear just boggles my mind, Like,
what the heck?
Speaker 11 (31:24):
That makes no sense to me?
Speaker 16 (31:26):
And with astrology it is not at all. Right, planets
are coming into.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Places and then going back, and you're like, this is.
Speaker 16 (31:34):
So frustrating, and I'm back to where I was, and
then it moves forward again.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
De Ava, There's something very human about acknowledging that in
the fog of healing, things are often more complicated than
just trying to move forward.
Speaker 16 (31:49):
We are trying to understand things that are beyond comprehension
in some ways. Right, how humbling to know that we
don't always have to I think that astrology and trauma
therapy really hold that capacity in a really beautiful way.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Chapter six, Mike Check, Jeane and I sat in her
apartment after the reading and we talked for a while.
What's spinning in your head? Like, what are you thinking about?
Speaker 5 (32:33):
First?
Speaker 4 (32:33):
I feel I don't know if I could could. I
feel stoned on my mind.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
I feel as though I want some acid trip or something.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Coming into this reading. I thought we'd devote a good
bit of conversation to the salaciousness and fond of hiring
an escort, but so much of this, to me felt
like Jane just needed to be seen what she needed
from the astrologer and what she actually wanted from the
escort was the same thing. She needed someone from the
(33:02):
outside world to remind her just how much she mattered.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I think what was most empowering about this for me
was at seventy four and living alone, you often feel
very invisible, you know you do. And it's like I
say to myself, oh my god, I could die right now.
No one's even gonna know, you know, that kind of feeling.
And what she did by saying, hey, wait, you know
(33:27):
this is what's happening. I mean I could not repeat
now to the moon in the house and the but
there was an overall sense of you are part of
the flow of the energy of the earth, my dear,
and you are on a ride, you know, and you
have been since you were born, and you will continue.
And so by saying you have the power to do that,
(33:50):
it was like I'm not invisible, you know, I'm not
and I and that was that was very big.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
I'm envious of Gene because whatever you think of astrology,
she got to feel seen and then she had the
luxury of time to process it, to decide for herself
what she wanted to take out of it and what
she wants the rest of her life to be. It's
a gift. On May seventh, twenty twenty two, exactly a
(34:21):
month after I got a warning about my father's health
in the form of a reading, he passed away. I
won't tell you the details yet. I'm just not ready,
but I will tell you this. That list I made
for my dad, we hardly got through it, and all
that time I thought I'd been promised, it slipped through
(34:43):
my clenched fist. Sitting in Jean's room, listening to this
talk of moons and whether this is the close of
a chapter or just another middle I am not present.
But before I can slip too far away, adjust my hand,
she moves the mic I'm holding just a hair away
(35:04):
from my face. But that touch, it pulls me back
into the moment, and then it makes me smile, because
whatever else I've been through, I am so lucky to
be here to get to work on projects. I love
to meet people like Gene. And as much as my
(35:25):
days now will be divided between longing for a past
that I cannot have and divining what the future can be,
I know she's right when she says things.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
This is the only moment.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
This is the only moment, and no other moment will
be greater or lessn It's just this is the moment.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Next week, we tackle an unsolved mystery in the Reagan
White House.
Speaker 7 (36:04):
President for you continue to allow us. Drama need to
play a part of the makeup of your rock it
off man.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
So did Ronald Reagan use astrology to guide his foreign policy? Also,
we get distracted watch on Saturday Morning Cartoons. We dig
up some televangelist beef, we learn about Boris Yelson's late
night cravings, and we find an incredible gem hiding in
an old Johnny Carson Cliff.
Speaker 6 (36:29):
It's eighties week here on Skyline Drive, so be sure
to tune in. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Skyline Drive is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcast.
This show is hosted and written by me Mongaish articular.
But the show it would be a bad idea sitting
in a drawer somewhere if it were not for all
these incredible people. Mary Philip Sandy is just the best.
She's our supervising producer, and I don't know how she
pulled us off with everything else going on. Nietscha Binshahi
(37:13):
Senior produced this whole thing and brought the delightful Gene
lebec into our world. Mark Lotto is such a mench
and story editor who really made this whole story incredible.
This episode was also produced and mixed by the wonderful
Anna Rubinova. Thank you so much, Anna, with scoring as
always from Botany. Check out a SoundCloud the insane music
(37:34):
in between.
Speaker 17 (37:34):
This courtesy of a Zadi Records, Ragender Himanshusuri, Monsoon Ciren.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
And also Peter Matthew Bauer. This song playing right now
is off his beautiful new album Flowers. If you want
to hear all of this music, we linked to a
mixtape in the show notes. Oh my gosh, the fifties
narration so funny, right that was Adam Bozar. Thank you
so much, Adam for doing that Rosenberg section and making
me laugh so hard. Also, ology descriptions come from astrology
(38:01):
dot Com. Jeene's story about falling in love is from
the Moth. Go download their wonderful show immediately. Additional production
and research support from the wonderful through Chivarrao, Lizzie Jacobs,
who is my wife and my rock, my superstar aunt,
somanaka the Womanuka Bukshi, and my cousin Arjinbucschi who helped
(38:22):
me out of a giant pickle. This show is executive
produced from iHeart by my good pals Nikki Mutour and
Katrina Norvel. Also got to thank my partners from Kaleidoscope
just the best team Oswolshen Kate Osborne Costas Linos and
the super dynamic Vahini Shori who made the crazy sweet
Kalajah my family on instaks viny my mom loved it special.
(38:45):
Thanks to all the kiddos who bore with us through
this production. All my friends at iHeart, Shanta and Sara,
my family everywhere, my pal Holly Fry who read this
episode's warning. If you haven't listened to stuff you missed
in the history class.
Speaker 17 (38:58):
You're missing out, or you can check out her excellent
podcast Criminalia go down her boat immediately. And just one
last thank you as always to my Amma and my
dad Lalita Enimation Ticular, who I thank my lucky stars for.
Speaker 6 (39:15):
Thank you all for listening.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
That's your friends, It's where you grew up. Oh they're
not your friends, It's where you grew up.
Warning. The following show includes discussion of escorts, drugs, septagenarian
Tinder eclipses, star powered therapy, and Donald Trump's former former
former lawyer. For listeners with Victorian sensibilities, please keep a
fan and smelling salts nearby.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
So I guess my biggest question is am I ever
going to have sex with somebody again?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
We're sitting in Jean Lebec's third floor apartment right off
the ninety third Street stop in Bay Ridge. Jean is
a former teacher, just like my mom, roughly the same age,
seventy four, but Jean's a New York four. She's got
that city girl edge.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
My name is Jean Anne Lebec, and I am a storyteller.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
The sex question, it's big for Jean because she was
married for forty one years and she expected to stay
married forever. But right before the city went into lockdown,
her marriage dissolved, and it's taken her about three years
to get to this point.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
The truth is, I don't want to marry anything. I'm
not looking for that, and I don't want to live
with anybody. I'm not looking for that.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
But she is craving something. It's some form of intimacy.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So my daughter is my biggest support and fan, and
when I've told her these stories about you know, guys
who just really want to sex text to they don't
really want to go further than that.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
All the weird men that I have had a date with.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Just okay, Now here's where we're at right now. I
think what you need to do is call up in
court service.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
That's right. It's early on a Saturday morning. I am
barely awake, haven't even had my cup of coffee, and
I'm pretty sure I'm hearing her right, Like, is this
sweet seventy four year old woman really asking permission to
hire somebody?
Speaker 5 (02:24):
You're there, and it's a very clear cut relationship, you know,
hire them for four hours.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
I don't know if an astrologer can help with that.
I don't know if any astrologer has ever been asked
whether it's the right time to hire an escort.
Speaker 6 (02:42):
But we're about to find out.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcast, I'm Monga's Shatika thear Welcome
to Skyline Drive Chapter one, pound Cake and Chemo. So
(03:35):
let's talk a second about Jean's question and questions like these. Well,
I ever have a partner that feels safe and secure.
Why do scorpios get such a bad wrap.
Speaker 7 (03:47):
I'm kind of curious how many dogs I will have
in my life?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Is it insane to consider trying to be a stand
up comedian as.
Speaker 7 (03:55):
A man who is rapidly balding?
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Will any of my hair ever grow back? That's what
the show was supposed to be, finding people with questions
I'd never think to ask, pairing them with an astrologer,
then generally having a good time. And I was going
to take this anthropological view of it all like stand back,
watch without judgment, try to understand and enjoy. But just
(04:20):
as our production was about to get off the ground,
I traveled to Queen's to get a reading from a
random astrologer. And that astrologer he warned me that my
dad's health would soon take a drastic turn. Within twenty minutes,
my dad had emailed me that the cancer had spread
through his liver. So now a few days later, I'm
(04:40):
in Kanye's, Georgia. Kanye's is mostly famous for being a
speed trap on the road between Atlanta and Athens, and
my parents settled here because my dad took a job
down the road a few years back, but little else
(05:00):
that would have drawn them here, Like there are strip
malls and waffle houses, banks, targets, and then these quiet
winding roads that veer off it with names like Christian Circle.
The doctor's office is tucked away on one of these
winding roads, and we're waiting for the doctor in a
little exam room. It's actually the way my dad wants it.
All of us here, my mom, sister, me, and I'm
(05:24):
a little surprised when the doctor walks in and he's Indian.
Speaker 8 (05:28):
So the pathology report still says preliminary.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
I didn't know that they had more of us out
in conyers. I like him immediately. He seems to really
know and care about my dad, and he's concerned for
us too, But when he starts, it's clear the news
isn't good.
Speaker 7 (05:48):
Show that.
Speaker 9 (05:49):
Then Dialima was started by small tumors, numerous tumors, Bawns.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
It turns out it's an aggressive small self cancer. It's
going to need an aggressive response.
Speaker 8 (06:01):
The painting is okay, but your disease is behaving way
too press Now it's wonderful.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I've turned on my voice recorder, not for podcasting, but
because I'm feeling lightheaded. Uneasy about how much of this
information I'll retain, and so far it sounds like the
chemo can only do so much.
Speaker 9 (06:22):
Why did I say it's not that great news? Because
small SI lung cancer is notorious not to stay in
control with chemotherapy. It goes away, but it comes right back.
So not a good diagnosis at all, but very treatable
in its current situation.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
This whole thing is basically cancer. Whack them all. You
can bat the cancer back, cheer a little, and then
start again until time runs out. The only time I
smile is when my dad asks timidly, oh, yes.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
I've heard that medical Mario and I can help.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
With And I think I remember my friend Howard when
his dad got cancer. Howard got him a pound cake
loaded with THHC and they spent the night laughing as
his dad shared memories along with these ridiculous life goals,
like how his one regret as a young man in
China was that he'd never taken a shit on the
(07:18):
doorstep of the French embassy. Anyway, I daydreamed a little
about sourcing some edibles and playing my dad's favorite records
as we chat through the night before I hear this you.
Speaker 8 (07:31):
Really don't want tellily parents to be dealing with metastatic
cancer three hundred miles away. It's just not invariably, no
matter how smold the treatment, as Lonely martins.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
In the best case scenario, we'll get three to four
more years with my dad. That's if the treatment takes.
It's something to hope for. But it's more likely we'll
get three to four months. The thing is, there's no
time to waste. A nurse wheels my dad to a
different wing to begin the chemo immediately. My mom's trying
to be brave, but she's still dazed. I tug at
(08:10):
her arm and hold it as we walk to the car.
Everything is daunting, but it also feels manageable. So instead
of worrying, I focus on our wish list. My dad
still speaks some Portuguese from his childhood in Goa, and
I know he wants to see Lisbon. I know he
wants to see his grandkids more. He wants to see
(08:32):
my sister get married. So I'm thinking, what can I do?
What money do we need? How can I move my
schedule around? Four months is not a lot of time,
but I'm going to make it feel like enough Chapter two,
(09:03):
Secrets and Lies.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
I lived in a family with a lot of secrets.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Secrets are the thing that shaped Jean, and I have
a feeling, it's what's driven her to tell these beautiful,
unvarnished stories about herself. Inside her place, past the entry
and the kitchen doorway and the hallway lined with photos,
there's a living room filled with vintage furniture stuff you'd
cover it from your favorite thrift store. Jane tells me
(09:33):
to sit anywhere, make myself comfortable, and so I do,
first on this bright, beautiful sofa, and then on an
ottoman just a little closer, doer.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I grew up right here in Brooklyn, matt and bay Ridge,
Button Crown Hearts, which is now a groovy, groovy place
to live, But during those days it was a hard
working Irish Catholic neighborhood and we were the only Jewish families.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Kids playing marbles, why nickel, hanging out on studs, running
around the neighborhood until the lamp posts flicker and you
just know it's time to raise home. It all sounds
so idyllic, but her childhood was also cloaked in something
darker because of her parents' political leanings.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
We lived this kind of life of secrets and lives.
They couldn't tell anybody they were American Communists. They couldn't
tell anybody they knew. Julison Ethel Rosenberg.
Speaker 7 (10:24):
Run for me, oh refresher on. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Julius Rosenberg a Taurus and Ethel Rosenberg a Libra, met
and fell in love at the Young Communist League.
Speaker 7 (10:41):
When Torres and libre come together in a love affair,
it can be the unification of two halves of a whole.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Julius had a steady job working for the Army Signal
Corps as an engineer, but he was fired for being a.
Speaker 7 (10:56):
Socialist Communism What is it?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Who are the apostles of a system that attempts to
destroy the American way of life? In the nineteen forties
and fifties, a communist panic swept across America, set off
by a Scorpio named Senator Joseph McCarthy. McCarthy was known
for his wild and sensational attacks.
Speaker 10 (11:20):
The Scorpio zodiac sign concerns itself with beginnings and endings
and is unafraid of either. They also travel in a
world that is black and white and has little use
for gray.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
At the time, Hollywood directors, prominent politicians, and government insiders
were terrified for their lives and careers. In nineteen fifty,
the couple was put on trial for passing atomic secrets
to the Soviets. The Rosenbergs claimed innocence, but they still
got the electric chair. The man who prosecuted them, a
twenty three year old pisces named Roy Kohane. One witness
(11:56):
from the trial, tried to take back his testimony. He
said the reason he lied on the stand was because
con had threatened to lock up his wife and make
life hell for his family.
Speaker 7 (12:06):
Many people associate pisces with dreams and secrets. As a
mutable sign.
Speaker 10 (12:12):
ICs holds a damptist, fluid and sheep shifting quality.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Anyway, back to Gene, it makes sense that her family
hid the fact that they were close with the Rosenbergs,
but that wasn't the only secret they were hiding.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
My sister's gay Being gay during those times was really
a horrifying thing. And I remember when she told me
she was gay, I thought this was the greatest thing
I ever heard, and she was like, you can I
tell us so nobody can know about.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
This like being Communist, being Jewish, being gay was just
another thing she couldn't talk about. As she's telling me
about her past, it makes more sense why Jean's welcomed
me in why she's agreed to talk. The thing is,
Gene is a total romantic.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
One of my favorite stories that I told was the
time I had my first orgasm. I had been married,
I had a baby, and still didn't know my own body.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
It's the nineteen seventies and Geine is in her twenties,
a single mom with a kid. She had briefly been
married to her high school sweetheart, and now she's working
at this daycare center where she has this colleague named Mona,
and they are a lot alike. They're both putting themselves
through school in the evenings. They both have little girls
that are the same age.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
We formed this friendship with each other, and then one
night we went to see this movie and we're sitting
in the car and she looks at me and says,
you know, I really feel like kissing you.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
I said, so kiss.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
That kiss was like fireworks.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
I mean, Mona and I had been intimate, but I
never had an orgasm.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
After this orgasm, she put on candles and everything, and
she looked at me and said, you know, sweetie, you
could do this anytime you want.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
I mean, the whole idea of that kind of power.
Speaker 11 (14:08):
And so.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
I begin to be kind of a crazy masturbator, you know.
Speaker 12 (14:13):
I would like go to my job at the daycare center,
and it was lunchtime, NiFe went back, and so it
was this whole description of just feeling giddy with this
kind of new fountain me.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Mona would move away not long after leaving the city,
but it wasn't long before Jeane would fall in love again.
In fact, in some ways, her next love would hit
her even harder. Here's a story she told at the Moth.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
It's assembly day and I am so nervous. My class
is putting on a play for the entire school, and
I'm walking down the auditorium the center aisle carrying all
these props. And takes my hand to help me navigate
up the stage steps, and my hand melts into his,
and his hand melts into mine. Our fingers linger, never
(15:02):
wanting to let go. And as Miss.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Hall crosses the stage to go to.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
The piano, and kids are getting their assembly seats, and
the ring is beating against the window.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
We fall madly in.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Love Geane and that teacher I don't want. They get married,
raise their daughter together, and then a son too. They
become grandparents together, and then one morning, forty one years later.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Over coffee, said I'm leaving.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Her husband came clean about another woman he'd been seeing,
But it wasn't long before Jean realized there were more.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
He was having copious amounts of affairs. It was almost
like a house of cards fell down. He's an expert
con man. He swept me off my feet. It was
almost like that love that you know you think you're
never ever going to find again, and then it all
just kind of crash and I had to kind of
weed through the betrayal.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
It didn't take much detective work for Gane to realize
he'd been cheating since the start of their relationship, with friends, colleagues,
random women along the way. Jean was heartbroken. She still is,
and it's tainted the way she looks at the.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Past, because I see a happy family, but I think,
was he involved with this woman then?
Speaker 4 (16:16):
Or who is he involved with?
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Then? Jeane is done grieving. She no longer wants to
look backwards.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
What is this next?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Journey about for myself because I feel like I'm at
the brink of something.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
I just don't know what the break is. I don't
know what something is.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
The truth is, Jean does not believe in astrology. She's
had opportunities before to have her chart read, but she's
never really seen the point.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You know, my sister was into astrology, but you know,
we all thought it was bullshit, you know, and I
always thought, like, please have a glass of wine, relax,
it's more meaningful than this.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
But that was then Today, at seventy four, Jean recognizes
how precious her time is over and over. She tells me,
I've got ten years, ten good years to drink in
all the richness of life already.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Told you lying even down.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And if there's any chance that astrology can unlock that secret,
she's open to it. Oh, and there's still the matter
of the escorts. More on that after the break. Chapter three.
(17:35):
Wheels that Work.
Speaker 13 (17:38):
You know, I don't think humans hang on two things
that don't work, Like the wheel is awesome, like we
still use it. We don't say, oh, this wheel is
out of date, Like no, it's functional, right. So that's
the same thing with astrology, Like we don't study this
stuff because it doesn't work.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Over the summer, my friends and I started the search
for a house astrologer for this show. We thought hard
about using doctor Kamar, but I was reluctant. Looking back,
it's obvious why doctor Kamar's predictions had set off a
chain of events that I just needed to compartmentalize away
from this show. I needed a different experience, and Janelle
(18:20):
Belgrave is definitely that. She is sunny and relentlessly encouraging,
and the first time I chatted with her, I was
smiling the whole time, like I love the way she
peppered the conversation with this secret knowledge of just how
pervasive astrology is.
Speaker 13 (18:37):
If you don't think there are multi billionaires using astrology
to get ahead, let me tell you something.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
They're out there. I mean, that's what my whole show
was supposed to peek into, but it was actually something
more than that. As my little team of skeptics here
talked about the production, we decided that using Janelle almost
seemed faded. Like when Mary Amitra set out to find
an astrologer for the show, they independently made lists and somehow,
not only did they both find Janelle, but they both
(19:05):
had her as their top choice, so we chalked it
up to destiny and rolled with it. Janelle's real New
York too, She's from Queen's and her parents are immigrants
from Panama. Janelle's doesn't sugarcoat things, so when I asked
(19:31):
her about the birthdate for the show and the show's timing, well,
let's just say she was less optimistic than doctor Kamar,
who told me this show was going to be a
mega hit.
Speaker 14 (19:42):
So you guys said that it was May sixteenth, nine
thirty nine am in Brooklyn.
Speaker 7 (19:47):
New York.
Speaker 14 (19:48):
Correct, Yeah, yeah, right, okay, right, okay, So you guys
are a Torus sun, a cancer rising moon in Sagittarius.
You guys planned this right under an eclipse, which is
really interesting, not necessarily bad, but eclipse energy can be
(20:09):
very volatile, right.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I guess I've got a temper my expectations. But even
when Janelle's prepping you for a turbulent time ahead, I
like how she's still encouraging.
Speaker 13 (20:21):
You're starting under a lot of retrogrades, and that's okay,
but you just have to know that you can have
to be patient use that to your benefit.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Now, this isn't aside. But last year I started giving
monsterra plants away to people who have been going through
hard things. It is a super instagrammable plant, but that's
not why I like it. The monster is unusual. If
left in the dark, exhibit something called negative phototropism, where
all the new stems will actually grow into the darkness.
(20:55):
It's a clever trick. In the jungle, darkness signals the
presence of a larger tree, so the monster trusts that
it can lean into the shadows and pool all of
its energy into climbing that trunk because it believes sunlight
will come. I like that reminder because I've needed that reminder.
And that's what's so great about Janelle. The beauty She's
(21:17):
found in reminding people that hope still exists.
Speaker 13 (21:22):
There's always hope in the darkest moments of our life.
And when you look back and say, yeah, there was
that some person that came to me that day and
said something, and that was the thing I needed to
get to the next day, and that next day was miraculous.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
There's a joy in pairing up a couple you have
a good feeling about. Gene is so clearly yearning and
I wanted to witness what magic might come out when
you put Jeanne and Janelle and all their stars and
their stories in a room together. Chapter four. You don't
(22:09):
want to waste a minute. It's months before I see
Gene again. We are sitting in our apartment. This time
it's my producer, Mitra and me, and we've set up
a consult with Janelle. But twenty minutes in, everything is
going wrong. Sound Waves are flashing across the laptop, but
apparently it hasn't been taping. Worse, the backup recorder got jammed,
(22:32):
and then our batteries died. It's like this taping is jens.
Of course, Janelle doesn't miss a beat. She makes a
crack about eclipses and the universe, showing us just how
real astrology is, and she reminds us that if we've
tried this a few days from now, everything would have
gone smoothly. We all laugh, but we try again.
Speaker 14 (22:53):
Okay, so where should we start?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
In my head, I'm screaming escorts. We've got to talk
about courts. If you listen to the tape from fifteen
minutes ago, it is all static, but what you would
have heard? What I wish we still had was the
discussion and where it began. Before Jean had even said
the word escort, Janelle basically said, Jeane, your chart is
(23:18):
telling me that you're meant to go enjoy yourself. The
universe wants you to enjoy yourself. So go on dates,
go on hikes, go have sex, Go do the things
that feel fun. But I don't have that tape because
I started this show in an eclipse, and somehow it's
easier to tell myself that to make that the excuse
(23:42):
than to stop Gene from taking the conversation in the
direction she needs it to go.
Speaker 5 (23:50):
I have been feeling like I'm on the edge of something,
but I don't know what that looks like.
Speaker 14 (23:54):
Huh, I gotcha, Okay, Sash.
Speaker 13 (23:57):
She wanted to take you back to your last new
moon that you had, though basically this is just to
show you that there's no such thing as like linear
time in astrology. So when we are at a new
moon phase in our life, it's when we're starting a
brand new chapter. We've ended one chapter. Okay, So back
in twenty eleven, April twenty eleven, you had a new
(24:18):
moon happen in your progressed chart at nineteen.
Speaker 14 (24:21):
Degrees of aris. So if you can think back to
what was happening in your life in twenty eleven, I.
Speaker 15 (24:26):
Can tell you I know exactly what was happening because
that was so I can't believe you just said that.
Speaker 11 (24:30):
I'm blown away.
Speaker 14 (24:32):
Really Okay, hold that thought, don't game. Don't give it
away just yet. So I want us to kind of
flow through it. So back then you plant it seas right,
then you're going to track the moon.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
As she continues, Janelle traces her cursor over the flow
of the moon through Jane's sign, and she shows her
how the moon is moved with her over the years.
Speaker 14 (24:49):
So around probably, I would say twenty sixteen or so
is when things probably got a little bit rocky, especially
when it came to marriage. Oh yeah, so September of
twenty nineteen maybe would have been a time where things
might have got a little bit tough.
Speaker 11 (25:05):
Oh my god, yeah, I have the chills. I do
have the chills.
Speaker 13 (25:12):
To show you how astrology works, to show you the timing.
So we're seeing this moon hit with Pluto, right, so
possibly endings, deaths, changes, transformations, endings, endings.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
The scene reminds me of what my friend Pete the
rock star astrologer told me this concept of Joe TISHMATI
what you're going for in a great reading, like that
shared connection between astrologer and the person being read, passing
the light of awareness.
Speaker 11 (25:41):
I'm really sitting here completely overwhelmed.
Speaker 15 (25:44):
I have to tell you because when you, let's say
a specific thing like September, you know, twenty nineteen, September
twenty fifth, twenty nineteen, looked me in the face and said, bye.
Speaker 11 (25:56):
Bye, I'm leaving you for another woman. And so that's
a month.
Speaker 15 (26:00):
That's a time I don't really no one really knows, like, oh,
that happened.
Speaker 11 (26:04):
But then when you just said it was like you
did not just say that, but.
Speaker 14 (26:09):
Yeah, right. Sometimes it's very literal. Pluto is the planet,
that's the planet of death and transformation and saying this
is the end.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I'm watching the two of them, and it's clear something
has clicked. In just a few minutes. Gene is transformed
from this person who is I guess, willing to give
astrology a chance, to someone who's sitting on her hands
to stop herself from waving them so excitedly. Despite the screen,
there is an intensity between them. Every month or date
(26:39):
Janelle throws out seems to provoke this avalanche of memories,
and each time Gene is about to let out this
rush of words like just let them spill it from
her mouth, Janelle smiles like a chest Shire cat and
she tells her to hold it in just a little more.
Janelle is confident there's power and astrology. She's felt it
for decades now, but in this moment, that power is
(27:01):
so clear. It's animating every dopamine receptor in Jean's brain
and she is buzzing, glowing with electricity.
Speaker 13 (27:10):
I know, but I have two and a half years
to make use of this energy. I have to do
it otherwise it's not going to come back for another
fourteen years.
Speaker 7 (27:17):
Right.
Speaker 14 (27:18):
I don't want to have to waste that time, right exactly.
Speaker 11 (27:21):
No, I don't.
Speaker 5 (27:21):
I at seventy four, you don't want to waste a minute.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
About the gully Gully pay not just a heart of
bunny to get you job headed off. Chapter five, A
Couch with a View. My sister's a psychologist, a PhD.
And we have this line we use about Indians. It's
okay to be a psychiatrist, but it's not okay to
(27:55):
see a psychiatrist. Years ago, when my wife and I
were looking into international adoption from India, the forms indicated
that if you'd ever seen a psychiatrist, you'd be disqualified
from adopting. I'm ashamed to admit that for years it
kept me from seeing a grief counselor. I mean, along
with all the other stresses of life. I lost a
(28:17):
cousin to a suicide and a best friend to an overdose,
and I struggled. I was a shell of myself. The
truth is, in those years, I was not a great
dad or a great husband, and I could have used
the therapy, but I also didn't want to limit our
options as potential parents anyway. For Indians, including the Indian government,
(28:40):
the stigma is real. So things like religion and astrology
they fill the gap and it makes sense right. Astrology
allows you to put a symbol on something that's hard
to name and to reframe your problems from a different lens.
It's therapy for people who just don't want to go
to therapy. But what happens when those notions are flipped,
(29:01):
Like what if your therapist was secretly powering their sessions,
using the stars to amplify their understanding of you, because
that's what Ava does.
Speaker 16 (29:13):
Oh my god, I feel like I'm a little bashful.
Speaker 11 (29:15):
I'm a licensed therapist.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Ava, which is not her real name, is a successful
trauma therapist from the Midwest, and she's keenly aware of
the baggage that astrology carries.
Speaker 16 (29:25):
Do I worry if I bring it up people don't
take me seriously. Of course, for younger clients, I think
it's kind of almost a way of connecting. But yeah,
my clients who are older, it's a little bit more
of a finesse.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
So before she dives in with a new client, she
floats a few questions to see just how open she
can be with them.
Speaker 16 (29:45):
It's something that I kind of test the waters to
see are they into astrology? Is it something they're not
at into right? And if they are, it's wonderful because
we can fold that into our understanding, like holy shit,
like Saturn and Mars are being transited by Saturn. That,
from what you're telling me, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Of course, even when they're not into astrology, AVA still
keeps an eye on their chart.
Speaker 16 (30:08):
I still have their birthdays. I can see where their
planets are, which isn't to say that that changes how
I show up to them. My number one job is
to be here with the client therapy, existing in this
world of diagnoses and insurance and all these things that
are trying to make it be short and get people
back to work and make people legible in this really
(30:32):
fucked up system. Right, So much of that is not
helpful in the actual work of therapy. But I think
astrology just it allows me to kind of ground back
into the trust of having this big perspective in this
small perspective. At the same time.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
There are so many people who see therapy and astrology
at odds with one another, but Ava, she hopes there's
new ways about thinking about both because both have the
ability to give you agency. I mean, isn't that what
we go to therapy for. Isn't that what we want
from astrology, to access perspectives big and small, because so
(31:10):
much of what we're looking for is someone to tell
us what really matters, what we can set aside, and
to teach us what to spend our precious time on.
Speaker 16 (31:20):
This idea of human progress is linear just boggles my mind, Like,
what the heck?
Speaker 11 (31:24):
That makes no sense to me?
Speaker 16 (31:26):
And with astrology it is not at all. Right, planets
are coming into.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Places and then going back, and you're like, this is.
Speaker 16 (31:34):
So frustrating, and I'm back to where I was, and
then it moves forward again.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
De Ava, There's something very human about acknowledging that in
the fog of healing, things are often more complicated than
just trying to move forward.
Speaker 16 (31:49):
We are trying to understand things that are beyond comprehension
in some ways. Right, how humbling to know that we
don't always have to I think that astrology and trauma
therapy really hold that capacity in a really beautiful way.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Chapter six, Mike Check, Jeane and I sat in her
apartment after the reading and we talked for a while.
What's spinning in your head? Like, what are you thinking about?
Speaker 5 (32:33):
First?
Speaker 4 (32:33):
I feel I don't know if I could could. I
feel stoned on my mind.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
I feel as though I want some acid trip or something.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Coming into this reading. I thought we'd devote a good
bit of conversation to the salaciousness and fond of hiring
an escort, but so much of this, to me felt
like Jane just needed to be seen what she needed
from the astrologer and what she actually wanted from the
escort was the same thing. She needed someone from the
(33:02):
outside world to remind her just how much she mattered.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I think what was most empowering about this for me
was at seventy four and living alone, you often feel
very invisible, you know you do. And it's like I
say to myself, oh my god, I could die right now.
No one's even gonna know, you know, that kind of feeling.
And what she did by saying, hey, wait, you know
(33:27):
this is what's happening. I mean I could not repeat
now to the moon in the house and the but
there was an overall sense of you are part of
the flow of the energy of the earth, my dear,
and you are on a ride, you know, and you
have been since you were born, and you will continue.
And so by saying you have the power to do that,
(33:50):
it was like I'm not invisible, you know, I'm not
and I and that was that was very big.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
I'm envious of Gene because whatever you think of astrology,
she got to feel seen and then she had the
luxury of time to process it, to decide for herself
what she wanted to take out of it and what
she wants the rest of her life to be. It's
a gift. On May seventh, twenty twenty two, exactly a
(34:21):
month after I got a warning about my father's health
in the form of a reading, he passed away. I
won't tell you the details yet. I'm just not ready,
but I will tell you this. That list I made
for my dad, we hardly got through it, and all
that time I thought I'd been promised, it slipped through
(34:43):
my clenched fist. Sitting in Jean's room, listening to this
talk of moons and whether this is the close of
a chapter or just another middle I am not present.
But before I can slip too far away, adjust my hand,
she moves the mic I'm holding just a hair away
(35:04):
from my face. But that touch, it pulls me back
into the moment, and then it makes me smile, because
whatever else I've been through, I am so lucky to
be here to get to work on projects. I love
to meet people like Gene. And as much as my
(35:25):
days now will be divided between longing for a past
that I cannot have and divining what the future can be,
I know she's right when she says things.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
This is the only moment.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
This is the only moment, and no other moment will
be greater or lessn It's just this is the moment.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Next week, we tackle an unsolved mystery in the Reagan
White House.
Speaker 7 (36:04):
President for you continue to allow us. Drama need to
play a part of the makeup of your rock it
off man.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
So did Ronald Reagan use astrology to guide his foreign policy? Also,
we get distracted watch on Saturday Morning Cartoons. We dig
up some televangelist beef, we learn about Boris Yelson's late
night cravings, and we find an incredible gem hiding in
an old Johnny Carson Cliff.
Speaker 6 (36:29):
It's eighties week here on Skyline Drive, so be sure
to tune in. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Skyline Drive is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcast.
This show is hosted and written by me Mongaish articular.
But the show it would be a bad idea sitting
in a drawer somewhere if it were not for all
these incredible people. Mary Philip Sandy is just the best.
She's our supervising producer, and I don't know how she
pulled us off with everything else going on. Nietscha Binshahi
(37:13):
Senior produced this whole thing and brought the delightful Gene
lebec into our world. Mark Lotto is such a mench
and story editor who really made this whole story incredible.
This episode was also produced and mixed by the wonderful
Anna Rubinova. Thank you so much, Anna, with scoring as
always from Botany. Check out a SoundCloud the insane music
(37:34):
in between.
Speaker 17 (37:34):
This courtesy of a Zadi Records, Ragender Himanshusuri, Monsoon Ciren.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
And also Peter Matthew Bauer. This song playing right now
is off his beautiful new album Flowers. If you want
to hear all of this music, we linked to a
mixtape in the show notes. Oh my gosh, the fifties
narration so funny, right that was Adam Bozar. Thank you
so much, Adam for doing that Rosenberg section and making
me laugh so hard. Also, ology descriptions come from astrology
(38:01):
dot Com. Jeene's story about falling in love is from
the Moth. Go download their wonderful show immediately. Additional production
and research support from the wonderful through Chivarrao, Lizzie Jacobs,
who is my wife and my rock, my superstar aunt,
somanaka the Womanuka Bukshi, and my cousin Arjinbucschi who helped
(38:22):
me out of a giant pickle. This show is executive
produced from iHeart by my good pals Nikki Mutour and
Katrina Norvel. Also got to thank my partners from Kaleidoscope
just the best team Oswolshen Kate Osborne Costas Linos and
the super dynamic Vahini Shori who made the crazy sweet
Kalajah my family on instaks viny my mom loved it special.
(38:45):
Thanks to all the kiddos who bore with us through
this production. All my friends at iHeart, Shanta and Sara,
my family everywhere, my pal Holly Fry who read this
episode's warning. If you haven't listened to stuff you missed
in the history class.
Speaker 17 (38:58):
You're missing out, or you can check out her excellent
podcast Criminalia go down her boat immediately. And just one
last thank you as always to my Amma and my
dad Lalita Enimation Ticular, who I thank my lucky stars for.
Speaker 6 (39:15):
Thank you all for listening.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
That's your friends, It's where you grew up. Oh they're
not your friends, It's where you grew up.
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