November 21, 2025 • 24 mins
On today’s episode, UTA board members and partners Blair Kohan and Jason Heyman have a deep conversation about where the heat and the headwinds are in the business of comedy.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast feature and conversations
with industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment.
I'm Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today.
My guests are Blair Cohen and Jason Hayman. Hayman and
Cohen are board members and partners at United Talent Agency.
They are top talent reps who guide the careers of
(00:31):
mega megastars in front of and behind the camera. Both
of them wanted to have a conversation about the twists
and turns that they are seeing in the comedy business. Comedy,
as we know is hard. It's been a rough year
for traditional adult comedies at the box office. Sitcoms are
few and far between on network television these days, and
yet there's more talent and more avenues for expressing comedy
(00:53):
than ever before. Cohen and Hayman talk about the pros
and cons and the ups and downs in the current marketplace.
The two drink Minimum rim Shots set. It's a candid
conversation with two industry pros who have worked together for
so long that they make a really good buddy act.
I hope you find it a fun listen Jason and Blair,
thank you so much for having me today in the
(01:16):
art filled halls and conference rooms of UTA.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
A great to have you here.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Great, thank you for having us. We've been talking about
doing this. I'm glad that we finally are having this conversation.
It's an interesting time for comedy because it seems like
the best of times in terms of new talent, talent discovery,
ways to get people out. It's not the best of
times when you're talking about traditional movies, traditional sitcoms. Where
are you finding your opportunities for talent at different level?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I would say they've migrated to television. These were big
box office comedy stars who realized that the opportunity was
no longer in the theatrical comedy business, from Owen Wilson
to Will Ferrell to Seth Rogen, countless others. Jason Siegel,
(02:05):
Jason Sidekis, Jason Sidekis right have migrated to television, and
those shows are some of the biggest comedic shows on
those platforms.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
I would agree.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I think obviously COVID changed the theatrical landscape so significantly
that it drove so much of the comedy business into streaming,
both television and film and we're now slowly starting to
see the rebound of coming out of that. And I
(02:35):
mean the good news is, though the studios are starting
to come back, the theatrical experience is starting to come back.
You're starting to see some green shoots up here in
the traditional theatrical marketplace. And that's great for all of
us who believe in the communal theatrical experience. In a
world where so many people are transitioning towards IP or
(02:55):
leaning on IP as a bit of a safety valve
in the business, comedy is not that right. It's inherently
an original art form, and as the cost becomes so
prohibitive to make a movie, a television is where a
lot of people are turning to.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
What we really need in television is for these platforms
to give these comedies a minute to get up on
their feet. Ted Lassop took a couple of seasons to
really like Soar, and I think you saw this last
season of Platonic really find itself. Nobody wants this and
we'll see what second season of Studio brings. What we
were experiencing in the Migration was a kind of one
(03:36):
and done like one season. It doesn't click we're going
to take it off the air. And we grew up
in an environment where networks allowed for these sitcoms to
go a couple of seasons to find their footing.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
And you could do nine episodes. Check it out. Oh
my god, this supporting character is blowing up. Yeah, that
part much bigger a lot of people are talking about,
Like on the drama side, the pit was a return
to a traditional show that the industry can wrap its
head around and Emmy voters wrapped their heads around.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Can a network sitcom exist again?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Right?
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Right?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Can Modern Family exist again? Can Everybody Loves Raymond exist?
It's a really good question. The good side of it
is that schedule, that routine that we all grew up
with of you know, pilot season and upfronts and fall
schedule and all of that. Right, that's all gone. So
you have a little more flexibility and the talent can
(04:26):
go off to do other things, come back when they
feel creatively inspired. Larry David, for example, like can take
off what two or three years between seasons, right, he
comes back when he feels he has something to say
and he's inspired to go do another season. And there's
something great about that that you're not just churning it
out based on you know, existential things that you actually
(04:50):
the creative ambition and what the creator is feeling they
want to put out there. They can do it on
their term.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
If you just look at traditional broadcast network it's pretty
thin right now. Do you think that's actually a problem
for network TV used to have nights. I know that's
an antiquated thought, but just the paucity of product on there.
Can NBC get traction with Saint Denis if it's mostly
a desert around it in terms of comedies. Do you
think is that a problem for the networks.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
It's funny how the streamers try and do that with
your algorithms, But I actually think that audiences are drawn
to the talent, and I think what we've gotten so
far away from a network TV is betting on talent
and identifying early and discovering talent, which is what they
did for decades and decades. And now what you're finding
(05:43):
is Netflix has this unbelievable incubator program with their comedy specials,
and so they can identify quite quickly, Oh, this person
really has an audience. So we're going to capture that
and we're going to pivot it to a series. So
you'll see a client of ours, Land Morgan. She grew
her audience through her localized social media platforms and was
(06:07):
able to prove that she had an audience. And then
you see Netflix picking up on that, putting a special
on watching how the Special Lands, and then we partner
her with Chuck Lauri and creating a show for her.
So I think there is a lot of that going
on at Netflix, a little bit at HBO we see
Rachel Sennet. Yeah, really created her audience on a social
(06:31):
media platform.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Do you think that structurally that a Netflix or a
Peacock or an Amazon Prime Video could do a twenty
two episode sitcom a family that you were to fall
in love with. Do you think it would work? Or
is there fundamentally something about the on demand nature of
streaming doesn't lend itself to that.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Honestly, I couldn't speak to the economics of it, but
I'll tell you from my son, my four year old son,
who just watches Modern Family religiously like too much. It's
like I catch him in his bedroom watching Wadern Family
at night. I believe that could exist for a great
comedy like that.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
It's interesting to watch this generation.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
They're repeat viewers.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
They will watch Summer I Turned Pretty, They'll watch that season,
and then they'll watch that season again. So I do
have a feeling there is this.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I know.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I understand the binge nature of you sit down, you
watch five six episodes in a sitting of a half hour,
But I wonder if we delivered them quality content for
twenty two episodes, I am a feeling that they would
stick with it. It's all about that stick with it
mentality at those platforms, and they have the ability to
(07:46):
see when people are turning it off, right, So it'd
be interesting to just do a test case. We're going
to deliver you twenty two episodes and of a quality
show where we've tested it, we have algorithms whatnot, and
see if an audience will stay with it through twenty
two episodes.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
That habitual thing where you know Norm and Cliff and
Carla and the bar, it's that check in.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
That appointment television exists still. I remember for me my
appointment television, Sex and the City, you know, Sunday night, HBO,
Thursday night NBC. That appointment television. I actually think White
Lotus is studio. There are some shows that drop weekly
that to me feel like appointment to some extent water
(08:30):
Nillar shows, right, and it goes back to the same
thing on the theatrical side.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
If you don't build it, they won't come. So at
a certain point someone has to take the shot. And
because if you don't build it, I can guarantee you
they won't come.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
They want to.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Like people largely now don't even think about going to
the theater to see an R rated comedy. Like it's
not even something if you're a twenty year old kid
going out with your buddies, it's not even something you
even consider doing.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Right, That's something you'll find on the streamer Sunday.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Or the movie is the destination, meaning like you used
to go to the mall and you'd be at the
mall and then you'd see what was playing, and then
you'd buy a ticket and you'd go see a movie.
Now it's absolutely again.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I'm going to see Minecraft, or you go to a
live show. Obviously, I'm sure we'll talk about but the
explosion of live and the theatrical experience now is going
to the improv, is going to the laugh Factory, is
going down to Nokia to watch a show with ten
thousand other people. That's what it's become.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Years ago, of course, you know Richard pryor Steve Martin,
they had big box office hits with live concert films.
More recently, the original kings of comedy. Do you think
that we might see the big headlining comic have a
straight up concert performance movie.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
You probably can't say it right now, but we're talking
about a la Taylor Swift in comedy. They're talking about
things like that now.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I think people want to laugh in community. I think
what's driving this live experience is being together in a
room and laughing together. And that was what when we
talk about all these great movies, these great comedies of
the last twenty five to fifty However, many years it
was going to the theater and laughing in community, and
(10:18):
I think we are missing that. As Jason said, somebody
is going to have to take the risk to put
a few of those out there.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
What would you say in terms for developing stars? Stand
up comedy has been a path to television since the
days of Johnny Carson. But what are the pros and
cons for developing new talent.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
We always talk about the heyday of comedy Central Jason
and I and Funnier Die and those incubators you know,
Yes and Now which is still there and still incubating, identifying, discovering.
We miss those days because that's where we were able
to launch talent. It's where we discovered talent with social
media and the acts to finding your audience. And we
(11:02):
have comedians like Matt Rife, Nate Bargotzik, Leanne Morgan who
we talked about Ali Wong who are developing their audience directly,
and so we have this reverse incubation thing where the
Netflix is and the Amazon's and hbos attached to them
after they've already created this platform for themselves, so they
(11:25):
have a little bit more control and understanding about what
their audience is looking for. But I think the loss
of Comedy Central and Funnier Die has been replaced by Instagram,
YouTube at TikTok.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Is it important do the fans have to see them
on a stage in a traditional stand up contact.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I think you need to have the live experience. I
think that all of that builds towards it, and it
retains the audience in between tours right for the year
that you're down, because you can't just flood the market
and month after month, and it keeps the audience engaged,
follows you, gives you an insight into who you are,
what your life is, and doing funny bits. I agree,
(12:07):
but there's no replacing that live experience and that direct
connection with your fans. It's unbelievable. When you go see
some of our clients that are at Madison Square Garden
or in Boston Garden or United Center, they're in the middle,
one guy standing there. There's twenty thousand people and they're
(12:27):
performing to everyone as if they're just right there at
the Improfit Sebastian Manascalco, Nikki Glazer, now Monster, you know,
Eliza Slushing your album, you know Ali Wong, Bert Kreischer,
Matt Rife, like Jim Gaffigan can sue like you just
see these people and it's like every year it just
gets bigger and bigger, and it doesn't get bigger by
(12:48):
like five hundred it gets bigger by like twenty thousand,
thirty thousand, one hundred thousand. Like the growth is incredible,
and it's almost overnight. Back in the day when we
represent and Jim Carrey caase Man sure it came out
and he goes from a guy who made schedule f
to three million to ten million to the first million
dollar deal ever, right, I remember, and yeah, gable guy,
(13:12):
And that happened in like a two or three year period.
And that is what's happening in comedy, in live comedy, right,
that Jim Carrey level of explosiveness, It's unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Let me ask you, where are you and your teams?
Where do you scout for talent? Are you out in
the clubs? Are you looking on TikTok? Is it a
combination of everything everywhere all at once?
Speaker 3 (13:35):
I would say a combination of everything everywhere, all at once.
We have teams of young people who are out there
going to clubs and also on social media all the
time and highlighting for us like check this person out,
check that person out.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And we still go to the two of us still
go to clubs together. We go to shows together, We
go to Largo, we go to the improv, we go.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
To a laugh factory, I mean when that too drink minimum.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, And oftentimes we have headliners and we're looking at
the opening acts and we've discovered a lot of people
that way actually, And I love.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
To go wherever I am in the world in the
country to go into just a small town. If I
end up visiting a movie set in Iowa or Minneapolis,
all go down into the comedy cellar and just see
who's there. And I'm always driving the touring department crazy
because I'm always emailing them names of who's this guy,
(14:26):
who's this guy?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
You know?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
And of course they're usually tracking them already or know them.
But you know, I think even for those of us
who've been doing this a long time, we still get
a real kick out of finding that new star and
building them. You know, we really do.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
We love disc I mean, we love discovery and if
you look at the people we represent who we're involved with,
we're still year in, year out, still signing young talent
and encouraging our colleagues, supporting our colleagues who are finding
them as well. And a lot of them are digital influencers,
content creators who were matriculating. You look at that show Adults,
(15:01):
which is just chock full of all of these kids
that we've discovered here at UTA with colleagues and introduced
them to Nicole.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
What we love to.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Do is find young talent and partner them with some
really experienced talent to help schofferd them through television, film,
whatever it.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Is that leads nicely into my next question. And I
already know that there's no one answer for this, but
what are typically if you find somebody who's pretty green,
got some potential, you've seen some videos, or you've seen
some stand up, but they're in the first inning of
their career, what are some of the first things that
you do to help somebody who is aiming to be
(15:38):
on air talent. I mean, we have a crazy legacy
of mentorship. You know what You'll like introducing a Chase
Suwie Wonders to a Seth Rogan, introducing a Leanne Morgan
to a Chuck Laurie, introducing a Bill Hayter to an
alec Bert, Dave Byrd to Jeff Schaffer, a lot of
match making, a lot of matchmaking, and we really we
believe in it. It's also such a part of our
(16:01):
own collaborative process here where we're encouraging our younger colleagues
to identify who this next generation is and giving them
access to all of our senior client who've been in
it for a long time. I mean, we've been here
however many twenty eight years. For me and I don't
know how long for you thirty five.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
So so with a slight hiatus, yes, sir, with a
hiatus and a very spectacular return, we were very happy
to welcome them back. So we have done this generationally,
and it's something that we not only believe in, but
thrills us. You know, it's exciting to watch a show
like the Studio identify the next gen.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I love about the studio is like the first thing
they teach you when you start in Hollywood is don't
make movies or shows about Hollywood. And I love the
fact that the studio, which I love so many, I
drive like Baronhold's crazy just because like his character, I
just can't help myself. So every time I run into him,
I'm just like on my knees. Sousapper that you need
got to a legend.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
You mentioned Ali Wong because I mean, she's winning Emmys
for a very very serious role in Beef, and I
gotta believe that Beef also introduced a lot of people
to Ali Wong who are now buying tickets to her shows.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
In the old days where the Holy Grail was the
half hour network show or a movie, now so many
of our clients they had twenty different things. They can
do a podcast, they can write book, they have so
many things to explore their passion. That isn't the holy grail.
And as people who grew up in the film business,
(17:37):
we love when Sebastian Maniscalco goes and it does The
Green Book or does Irishman and then is at the
Oscars like that's a great thing, and when Ali Wong
does Beef. And we have so many examples of people
that we try to carve out different paths that they
can choose from. And if they loved the movie path, great,
but if they don't, that's okay too. We just want
(18:00):
to provide them with every possible opportunity, even things that
they're not thinking about.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Kam Allen thirty years ago could not have taken a
dramatic role like that, just the audience would not have
been able to see him that way. But now in
a world where Brian Kranston can be Walter White and
come back to Malcolm in the.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Middle, the marketplace is more open to that in a
way that it hadn't been before. And I think filmmakers
are also seeing the skill set, like we're going to
see Barnaults in a Luca Guadanino movie. You would never
have seen that, right, And so I think that you're right.
We have had a long tradition of also pushing our
(18:39):
clients to go do comedy, try drama, self generate, be
an actor for hire. We all consider ourselves multi hyphenit agents,
and maybe we've followed the client who considers themselves a
multi hyphen it, and we encourage that here for agents
to be entrepreneurial and for clients to be entrepreneurial.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
The agency really started with the Cohen Brothers and that
unique brand of comedy, and then it was Wes when
Wes came in with Bottle Rocket and Luke and Owen
and I remember when we sold an Anchorman years ago
and everyone was like a movie about seventies news anchors,
like what who wants? Right? It made no sense and
everyone passed, and then we took it out like six
(19:21):
months later, and everyone passed again. And then Old School
came out and Mike DeLuca actually, to his credit, was
the guy who said, you know what, there's something here.
And Old School had just come out, and Will Ferrell
had just popped, and Adam McKay was kind of emerging,
and I think we need to get back to that.
I think we need to have that next gin of
people that sure we can give them the support and
(19:44):
put some great A plus people around them to make
sure that it all goes well. But we have to
take those risks because if we don't, I don't think
you can just keep going back to the well and
hope for something if you're not taking shots on some
of these newer people like credit to the brands. Yes,
a lot of the brands want the more Middle America
(20:05):
comics that are a little safer or cleaner or whatever.
But I think brands are having fun with it now
and they're seeing that the audience engagement is tremendous. And
I don't know about you, but I used to spend
five percent of my day dealing with the brand side
of the business ten fifteen years ago. Now it could
(20:27):
be thirty forty percent of my day. I mean, it's
a huge component to what we do, both in terms
of just like ad campaign, marketing support for tours, marketing
support from movies, all of it. And that's changing rapidly.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
That is the big difference. You know, It used to
be that our endorsement group would interact with the brands.
But as soon as they caught on that, oh, there
are these content creators. These filmmakers are actually content creators
with a direct connectivity to the audience, whether their comedians
(21:03):
or their filmmakers, their tours, whatever they are, there is
some connectivity and we need to get to them. And
so now I feel like brands are figuring out, Oh,
we need to get direct to the talent.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
You both have been here a very long time. You
have seen UTA grow from the sapling into now what
it is. How is the evolution into so many areas
like branded content, like audience research? How is that augmented?
How is that uplifted the day to day work in
the trenches of scouting and getting people ready and that matchmaking.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I mean, honestly, we've grown so organically, and we've grown
out of the needs of our clients. The acquisitions that
we've made have been incredibly aligned. The spirit of Clutch
at Integration was so smooth and made so much sense to.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Us, the Rich Paul Sports agency that happens to represent
a little player named Lebron James Exactly.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
It's so in sync and so aligned with our own growth,
and similarly with our music group and similarly with this
entertainment culture marketing group, all of these different aspects of
the business, because, like Jason said, when we started, it
was really film and TV.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, writers, directors, actors, a few authors.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
And that was it right, And it just feels like
and you can feel it in the building, this sense
of collaboration where athletes are working with so many UTA
agents to launch podcasts and brands and different parts of
their businesses. And similarly with music artists.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Now I'm working with two music artists.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
You know, I never dreamt twenty eight years ago that
I'd be representing huge pop stars and really helping them
build out their businesses. I'm working with an author. I
never thought in a million years I would get to
be the kind of entrepreneurial agent that would get to
work with a best selling author helping that author develop
their business strategy in movies, television, podcast, whatever it is.
(23:02):
The organic growth allows for agents to dream so much
bigger for themselves and their clients they than we ever
thought possible twenty eight years ago. I mean, that's the
simple answer. I just can't believe how many of my
clients are doing so many different things and relying on
the expertise of so many of my colleagues publishing books,
(23:23):
starting podcasts, all really like, at a very high level, fascinating,
you'd be exciting.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I'm working with a client who is building a theme
park that's not something that I would have thought I
would be part of, and it's real and it's happening.
And like Blair said, when you start representing just writers
and actors and directors, and really for us, UTA has
always been about creators, unique voices. Where Blair and I said,
(23:52):
as the more senior leadership of the company is to
make sure that all of those dots are being connected.
That's what we spend a lot of time and making
sure that again, as I said earlier, that we're thinking
of things that they're not even thinking of for themselves.
That's your job, right, Yeah, to see around those corners
and making sure that if they want you, that there's
an expert inside this building who can make that happen
(24:15):
for them.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
That's the key, Jason and Blair. At a time when
this country needs laughs and humor and levity, I thank
you for all the work that you are doing to
foster and facilitate some good comedy because we definitely need it.
I've really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
We keep it going.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review
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of Strictly Business.
Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast feature and conversations
with industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment.
I'm Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today.
My guests are Blair Cohen and Jason Hayman. Hayman and
Cohen are board members and partners at United Talent Agency.
They are top talent reps who guide the careers of
(00:31):
mega megastars in front of and behind the camera. Both
of them wanted to have a conversation about the twists
and turns that they are seeing in the comedy business. Comedy,
as we know is hard. It's been a rough year
for traditional adult comedies at the box office. Sitcoms are
few and far between on network television these days, and
yet there's more talent and more avenues for expressing comedy
(00:53):
than ever before. Cohen and Hayman talk about the pros
and cons and the ups and downs in the current marketplace.
The two drink Minimum rim Shots set. It's a candid
conversation with two industry pros who have worked together for
so long that they make a really good buddy act.
I hope you find it a fun listen Jason and Blair,
thank you so much for having me today in the
(01:16):
art filled halls and conference rooms of UTA.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
A great to have you here.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Great, thank you for having us. We've been talking about
doing this. I'm glad that we finally are having this conversation.
It's an interesting time for comedy because it seems like
the best of times in terms of new talent, talent discovery,
ways to get people out. It's not the best of
times when you're talking about traditional movies, traditional sitcoms. Where
are you finding your opportunities for talent at different level?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I would say they've migrated to television. These were big
box office comedy stars who realized that the opportunity was
no longer in the theatrical comedy business, from Owen Wilson
to Will Ferrell to Seth Rogen, countless others. Jason Siegel,
(02:05):
Jason Sidekis, Jason Sidekis right have migrated to television, and
those shows are some of the biggest comedic shows on
those platforms.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
I would agree.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I think obviously COVID changed the theatrical landscape so significantly
that it drove so much of the comedy business into streaming,
both television and film and we're now slowly starting to
see the rebound of coming out of that. And I
(02:35):
mean the good news is, though the studios are starting
to come back, the theatrical experience is starting to come back.
You're starting to see some green shoots up here in
the traditional theatrical marketplace. And that's great for all of
us who believe in the communal theatrical experience. In a
world where so many people are transitioning towards IP or
(02:55):
leaning on IP as a bit of a safety valve
in the business, comedy is not that right. It's inherently
an original art form, and as the cost becomes so
prohibitive to make a movie, a television is where a
lot of people are turning to.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
What we really need in television is for these platforms
to give these comedies a minute to get up on
their feet. Ted Lassop took a couple of seasons to
really like Soar, and I think you saw this last
season of Platonic really find itself. Nobody wants this and
we'll see what second season of Studio brings. What we
were experiencing in the Migration was a kind of one
(03:36):
and done like one season. It doesn't click we're going
to take it off the air. And we grew up
in an environment where networks allowed for these sitcoms to
go a couple of seasons to find their footing.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
And you could do nine episodes. Check it out. Oh
my god, this supporting character is blowing up. Yeah, that
part much bigger a lot of people are talking about,
Like on the drama side, the pit was a return
to a traditional show that the industry can wrap its
head around and Emmy voters wrapped their heads around.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Can a network sitcom exist again?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Right?
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Right?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Can Modern Family exist again? Can Everybody Loves Raymond exist?
It's a really good question. The good side of it
is that schedule, that routine that we all grew up
with of you know, pilot season and upfronts and fall
schedule and all of that. Right, that's all gone. So
you have a little more flexibility and the talent can
(04:26):
go off to do other things, come back when they
feel creatively inspired. Larry David, for example, like can take
off what two or three years between seasons, right, he
comes back when he feels he has something to say
and he's inspired to go do another season. And there's
something great about that that you're not just churning it
out based on you know, existential things that you actually
(04:50):
the creative ambition and what the creator is feeling they
want to put out there. They can do it on
their term.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
If you just look at traditional broadcast network it's pretty
thin right now. Do you think that's actually a problem
for network TV used to have nights. I know that's
an antiquated thought, but just the paucity of product on there.
Can NBC get traction with Saint Denis if it's mostly
a desert around it in terms of comedies. Do you
think is that a problem for the networks.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
It's funny how the streamers try and do that with
your algorithms, But I actually think that audiences are drawn
to the talent, and I think what we've gotten so
far away from a network TV is betting on talent
and identifying early and discovering talent, which is what they
did for decades and decades. And now what you're finding
(05:43):
is Netflix has this unbelievable incubator program with their comedy specials,
and so they can identify quite quickly, Oh, this person
really has an audience. So we're going to capture that
and we're going to pivot it to a series. So
you'll see a client of ours, Land Morgan. She grew
her audience through her localized social media platforms and was
(06:07):
able to prove that she had an audience. And then
you see Netflix picking up on that, putting a special
on watching how the Special Lands, and then we partner
her with Chuck Lauri and creating a show for her.
So I think there is a lot of that going
on at Netflix, a little bit at HBO we see
Rachel Sennet. Yeah, really created her audience on a social
(06:31):
media platform.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Do you think that structurally that a Netflix or a
Peacock or an Amazon Prime Video could do a twenty
two episode sitcom a family that you were to fall
in love with. Do you think it would work? Or
is there fundamentally something about the on demand nature of
streaming doesn't lend itself to that.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Honestly, I couldn't speak to the economics of it, but
I'll tell you from my son, my four year old son,
who just watches Modern Family religiously like too much. It's
like I catch him in his bedroom watching Wadern Family
at night. I believe that could exist for a great
comedy like that.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
It's interesting to watch this generation.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
They're repeat viewers.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
They will watch Summer I Turned Pretty, They'll watch that season,
and then they'll watch that season again. So I do
have a feeling there is this.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I know.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I understand the binge nature of you sit down, you
watch five six episodes in a sitting of a half hour,
But I wonder if we delivered them quality content for
twenty two episodes, I am a feeling that they would
stick with it. It's all about that stick with it
mentality at those platforms, and they have the ability to
(07:46):
see when people are turning it off, right, So it'd
be interesting to just do a test case. We're going
to deliver you twenty two episodes and of a quality
show where we've tested it, we have algorithms whatnot, and
see if an audience will stay with it through twenty
two episodes.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
That habitual thing where you know Norm and Cliff and
Carla and the bar, it's that check in.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
That appointment television exists still. I remember for me my
appointment television, Sex and the City, you know, Sunday night, HBO,
Thursday night NBC. That appointment television. I actually think White
Lotus is studio. There are some shows that drop weekly
that to me feel like appointment to some extent water
(08:30):
Nillar shows, right, and it goes back to the same
thing on the theatrical side.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
If you don't build it, they won't come. So at
a certain point someone has to take the shot. And
because if you don't build it, I can guarantee you
they won't come.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
They want to.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Like people largely now don't even think about going to
the theater to see an R rated comedy. Like it's
not even something if you're a twenty year old kid
going out with your buddies, it's not even something you
even consider doing.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Right, That's something you'll find on the streamer Sunday.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Or the movie is the destination, meaning like you used
to go to the mall and you'd be at the
mall and then you'd see what was playing, and then
you'd buy a ticket and you'd go see a movie.
Now it's absolutely again.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I'm going to see Minecraft, or you go to a
live show. Obviously, I'm sure we'll talk about but the
explosion of live and the theatrical experience now is going
to the improv, is going to the laugh Factory, is
going down to Nokia to watch a show with ten
thousand other people. That's what it's become.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Years ago, of course, you know Richard pryor Steve Martin,
they had big box office hits with live concert films.
More recently, the original kings of comedy. Do you think
that we might see the big headlining comic have a
straight up concert performance movie.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
You probably can't say it right now, but we're talking
about a la Taylor Swift in comedy. They're talking about
things like that now.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I think people want to laugh in community. I think
what's driving this live experience is being together in a
room and laughing together. And that was what when we
talk about all these great movies, these great comedies of
the last twenty five to fifty However, many years it
was going to the theater and laughing in community, and
(10:18):
I think we are missing that. As Jason said, somebody
is going to have to take the risk to put
a few of those out there.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
What would you say in terms for developing stars? Stand
up comedy has been a path to television since the
days of Johnny Carson. But what are the pros and
cons for developing new talent.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
We always talk about the heyday of comedy Central Jason
and I and Funnier Die and those incubators you know,
Yes and Now which is still there and still incubating, identifying, discovering.
We miss those days because that's where we were able
to launch talent. It's where we discovered talent with social
media and the acts to finding your audience. And we
(11:02):
have comedians like Matt Rife, Nate Bargotzik, Leanne Morgan who
we talked about Ali Wong who are developing their audience directly,
and so we have this reverse incubation thing where the
Netflix is and the Amazon's and hbos attached to them
after they've already created this platform for themselves, so they
(11:25):
have a little bit more control and understanding about what
their audience is looking for. But I think the loss
of Comedy Central and Funnier Die has been replaced by Instagram,
YouTube at TikTok.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Is it important do the fans have to see them
on a stage in a traditional stand up contact.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I think you need to have the live experience. I
think that all of that builds towards it, and it
retains the audience in between tours right for the year
that you're down, because you can't just flood the market
and month after month, and it keeps the audience engaged,
follows you, gives you an insight into who you are,
what your life is, and doing funny bits. I agree,
(12:07):
but there's no replacing that live experience and that direct
connection with your fans. It's unbelievable. When you go see
some of our clients that are at Madison Square Garden
or in Boston Garden or United Center, they're in the middle,
one guy standing there. There's twenty thousand people and they're
(12:27):
performing to everyone as if they're just right there at
the Improfit Sebastian Manascalco, Nikki Glazer, now Monster, you know,
Eliza Slushing your album, you know Ali Wong, Bert Kreischer,
Matt Rife, like Jim Gaffigan can sue like you just
see these people and it's like every year it just
gets bigger and bigger, and it doesn't get bigger by
(12:48):
like five hundred it gets bigger by like twenty thousand,
thirty thousand, one hundred thousand. Like the growth is incredible,
and it's almost overnight. Back in the day when we
represent and Jim Carrey caase Man sure it came out
and he goes from a guy who made schedule f
to three million to ten million to the first million
dollar deal ever, right, I remember, and yeah, gable guy,
(13:12):
And that happened in like a two or three year period.
And that is what's happening in comedy, in live comedy, right,
that Jim Carrey level of explosiveness, It's unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Let me ask you, where are you and your teams?
Where do you scout for talent? Are you out in
the clubs? Are you looking on TikTok? Is it a
combination of everything everywhere all at once?
Speaker 3 (13:35):
I would say a combination of everything everywhere, all at once.
We have teams of young people who are out there
going to clubs and also on social media all the
time and highlighting for us like check this person out,
check that person out.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And we still go to the two of us still
go to clubs together. We go to shows together, We
go to Largo, we go to the improv, we go.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
To a laugh factory, I mean when that too drink minimum.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, And oftentimes we have headliners and we're looking at
the opening acts and we've discovered a lot of people
that way actually, And I love.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
To go wherever I am in the world in the
country to go into just a small town. If I
end up visiting a movie set in Iowa or Minneapolis,
all go down into the comedy cellar and just see
who's there. And I'm always driving the touring department crazy
because I'm always emailing them names of who's this guy,
(14:26):
who's this guy?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
You know?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
And of course they're usually tracking them already or know them.
But you know, I think even for those of us
who've been doing this a long time, we still get
a real kick out of finding that new star and
building them. You know, we really do.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
We love disc I mean, we love discovery and if
you look at the people we represent who we're involved with,
we're still year in, year out, still signing young talent
and encouraging our colleagues, supporting our colleagues who are finding
them as well. And a lot of them are digital influencers,
content creators who were matriculating. You look at that show Adults,
(15:01):
which is just chock full of all of these kids
that we've discovered here at UTA with colleagues and introduced
them to Nicole.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
What we love to.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Do is find young talent and partner them with some
really experienced talent to help schofferd them through television, film,
whatever it.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Is that leads nicely into my next question. And I
already know that there's no one answer for this, but
what are typically if you find somebody who's pretty green,
got some potential, you've seen some videos, or you've seen
some stand up, but they're in the first inning of
their career, what are some of the first things that
you do to help somebody who is aiming to be
(15:38):
on air talent. I mean, we have a crazy legacy
of mentorship. You know what You'll like introducing a Chase
Suwie Wonders to a Seth Rogan, introducing a Leanne Morgan
to a Chuck Laurie, introducing a Bill Hayter to an
alec Bert, Dave Byrd to Jeff Schaffer, a lot of
match making, a lot of matchmaking, and we really we
believe in it. It's also such a part of our
(16:01):
own collaborative process here where we're encouraging our younger colleagues
to identify who this next generation is and giving them
access to all of our senior client who've been in
it for a long time. I mean, we've been here
however many twenty eight years. For me and I don't
know how long for you thirty five.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
So so with a slight hiatus, yes, sir, with a
hiatus and a very spectacular return, we were very happy
to welcome them back. So we have done this generationally,
and it's something that we not only believe in, but
thrills us. You know, it's exciting to watch a show
like the Studio identify the next gen.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I love about the studio is like the first thing
they teach you when you start in Hollywood is don't
make movies or shows about Hollywood. And I love the
fact that the studio, which I love so many, I
drive like Baronhold's crazy just because like his character, I
just can't help myself. So every time I run into him,
I'm just like on my knees. Sousapper that you need
got to a legend.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
You mentioned Ali Wong because I mean, she's winning Emmys
for a very very serious role in Beef, and I
gotta believe that Beef also introduced a lot of people
to Ali Wong who are now buying tickets to her shows.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
In the old days where the Holy Grail was the
half hour network show or a movie, now so many
of our clients they had twenty different things. They can
do a podcast, they can write book, they have so
many things to explore their passion. That isn't the holy grail.
And as people who grew up in the film business,
(17:37):
we love when Sebastian Maniscalco goes and it does The
Green Book or does Irishman and then is at the
Oscars like that's a great thing, and when Ali Wong
does Beef. And we have so many examples of people
that we try to carve out different paths that they
can choose from. And if they loved the movie path, great,
but if they don't, that's okay too. We just want
(18:00):
to provide them with every possible opportunity, even things that
they're not thinking about.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Kam Allen thirty years ago could not have taken a
dramatic role like that, just the audience would not have
been able to see him that way. But now in
a world where Brian Kranston can be Walter White and
come back to Malcolm in the.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Middle, the marketplace is more open to that in a
way that it hadn't been before. And I think filmmakers
are also seeing the skill set, like we're going to
see Barnaults in a Luca Guadanino movie. You would never
have seen that, right, And so I think that you're right.
We have had a long tradition of also pushing our
(18:39):
clients to go do comedy, try drama, self generate, be
an actor for hire. We all consider ourselves multi hyphenit agents,
and maybe we've followed the client who considers themselves a
multi hyphen it, and we encourage that here for agents
to be entrepreneurial and for clients to be entrepreneurial.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
The agency really started with the Cohen Brothers and that
unique brand of comedy, and then it was Wes when
Wes came in with Bottle Rocket and Luke and Owen
and I remember when we sold an Anchorman years ago
and everyone was like a movie about seventies news anchors,
like what who wants? Right? It made no sense and
everyone passed, and then we took it out like six
(19:21):
months later, and everyone passed again. And then Old School
came out and Mike DeLuca actually, to his credit, was
the guy who said, you know what, there's something here.
And Old School had just come out, and Will Ferrell
had just popped, and Adam McKay was kind of emerging,
and I think we need to get back to that.
I think we need to have that next gin of
people that sure we can give them the support and
(19:44):
put some great A plus people around them to make
sure that it all goes well. But we have to
take those risks because if we don't, I don't think
you can just keep going back to the well and
hope for something if you're not taking shots on some
of these newer people like credit to the brands. Yes,
a lot of the brands want the more Middle America
(20:05):
comics that are a little safer or cleaner or whatever.
But I think brands are having fun with it now
and they're seeing that the audience engagement is tremendous. And
I don't know about you, but I used to spend
five percent of my day dealing with the brand side
of the business ten fifteen years ago. Now it could
(20:27):
be thirty forty percent of my day. I mean, it's
a huge component to what we do, both in terms
of just like ad campaign, marketing support for tours, marketing
support from movies, all of it. And that's changing rapidly.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
That is the big difference. You know, It used to
be that our endorsement group would interact with the brands.
But as soon as they caught on that, oh, there
are these content creators. These filmmakers are actually content creators
with a direct connectivity to the audience, whether their comedians
(21:03):
or their filmmakers, their tours, whatever they are, there is
some connectivity and we need to get to them. And
so now I feel like brands are figuring out, Oh,
we need to get direct to the talent.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
You both have been here a very long time. You
have seen UTA grow from the sapling into now what
it is. How is the evolution into so many areas
like branded content, like audience research? How is that augmented?
How is that uplifted the day to day work in
the trenches of scouting and getting people ready and that matchmaking.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I mean, honestly, we've grown so organically, and we've grown
out of the needs of our clients. The acquisitions that
we've made have been incredibly aligned. The spirit of Clutch
at Integration was so smooth and made so much sense to.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Us, the Rich Paul Sports agency that happens to represent
a little player named Lebron James Exactly.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
It's so in sync and so aligned with our own growth,
and similarly with our music group and similarly with this
entertainment culture marketing group, all of these different aspects of
the business, because, like Jason said, when we started, it
was really film and TV.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, writers, directors, actors, a few authors.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
And that was it right, And it just feels like
and you can feel it in the building, this sense
of collaboration where athletes are working with so many UTA
agents to launch podcasts and brands and different parts of
their businesses. And similarly with music artists.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Now I'm working with two music artists.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
You know, I never dreamt twenty eight years ago that
I'd be representing huge pop stars and really helping them
build out their businesses. I'm working with an author. I
never thought in a million years I would get to
be the kind of entrepreneurial agent that would get to
work with a best selling author helping that author develop
their business strategy in movies, television, podcast, whatever it is.
(23:02):
The organic growth allows for agents to dream so much
bigger for themselves and their clients they than we ever
thought possible twenty eight years ago. I mean, that's the
simple answer. I just can't believe how many of my
clients are doing so many different things and relying on
the expertise of so many of my colleagues publishing books,
(23:23):
starting podcasts, all really like, at a very high level, fascinating,
you'd be exciting.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I'm working with a client who is building a theme
park that's not something that I would have thought I
would be part of, and it's real and it's happening.
And like Blair said, when you start representing just writers
and actors and directors, and really for us, UTA has
always been about creators, unique voices. Where Blair and I said,
(23:52):
as the more senior leadership of the company is to
make sure that all of those dots are being connected.
That's what we spend a lot of time and making
sure that again, as I said earlier, that we're thinking
of things that they're not even thinking of for themselves.
That's your job, right, Yeah, to see around those corners
and making sure that if they want you, that there's
an expert inside this building who can make that happen
(24:15):
for them.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
That's the key, Jason and Blair. At a time when
this country needs laughs and humor and levity, I thank
you for all the work that you are doing to
foster and facilitate some good comedy because we definitely need it.
I've really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
We keep it going.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review
with the podcast platform of your choice. We love to
hear from listeners. Please go to Variety dot com and
sign up for our free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and
don't forget to tune in next week for another episode
of Strictly Business.
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