April 25, 2026 • 35 mins
Fever dreams can be unsettling experiences. These ramped up nightmares are vivid, detailed and only happen when the human body experiences a fever. What is it about the combination of fevers and dreams that make these night terrors so hellish? Learn all that and more in this classic episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody, Happy Saturday. It's Chuck here and I'm here
to deliver to you my pick for this week's Selects episode.
This is from July twenty seventeen. It's the episode how
Fever Dreams Work. And quite honestly, you guys have picked
this one because I don't remember much about it, so
I'm going to listen to it all over again myself,
so I hope you do as well. Hope you have
(00:22):
a great Saturday and a great weekend. Here we go
with How Fever Dreams Work. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know,
a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. How are you? I'm
Josh Clark, There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry. Jerry's
got a salad. Everything's normal, which means it's time. There's
stuff you should know.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Jerry's got this Shwarma special. She said, oh really, yeah,
she loves it. How you doing, good man? Feeling despite
myself kind of relaxed. Okay, I'm not feeling feverish. If
that's what you're driving at.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
No, that's not what I was driving at.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Uh yeah, no I'm not.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Do you get fevers a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
No, not anymore, although I haven't for a long time. Like,
I've never been like a fever person. I've probably had
like a handful maybe. How many fevers have you had?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Not a ton since I was a kid. Yeah, not
a lot of adult fevers, right, I.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Mean I've had like hip hop fever. I've had rock
and roll fever.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, yellow fever.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I've had a fever for a flavor of a brindle.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Oh man, me too.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
What are those? Those aren't even potato chips, are they?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
They're potato crisps, and those are good. They're mashed together
potato parts.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I don't think I want to know how those are made.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
No, it's like chicken McNuggets.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I think a unicorn just poops them out.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Have you seen unicorn pizza? It's a little much.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
There's a restaurant in New York, I'm not quite sure where,
maybe east Side. They have unicorn pizza. It's like dough, okay, good, start,
like a nice pastel colored frosting instead of sauce, a
mound of cotton candy nerds or pop rocks maybe, oh
(02:16):
good lord, and then some other stuff. Supposedly, it tastes
kind of good. I'll eat anything that has enough frosting
on it.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I like frosting, but I'm not into like sugary candies really.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Oh like nerds and pop rocks and stuff. You know,
I did brain stuff once. I'm pop rocks and that
was interesting.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, your tongue actually warms the pop rocks to the
point where they melt. And since they have CO two
trapped inside during the manufacturing process, that CO two suddenly
is released in a.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Pop so it's just a little bubble of CO two. Yeah,
that's gotta be good for you.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
It's funny.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
My head of roommate in college, like, not many adults
eat candy, Like people eat chocolate and stuff like that,
candy bars, but candy candy and an adults.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Is just a little strange anything. Yeah, do be candy?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Sure? Like what mentos? Not mint mentos? Like candy mentos?
I like those.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Well.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I had a roommate that would go to the convenience
store next and this is college granted, but he still
eats this stuff, I think, okay, And he would go
with like fifteen dollars and buy you know, like giant
sweet tarts, you know, those big chewable ones, sure, and
like a fun dip and nerds and just all kinds
(03:38):
of candy fun dip.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Remember liquam made there's the same thing. I think.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah, it's just a sugar sugar.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Right, Like I don't have a foot, but I've got
my liquim maide, Oh man, can you can? You guys
out there and podcast Lantel were stalling because we are
a big time because we happen upon a topic that
no one really knows what's what. Yeah, I mean we're
talking about fever dreams. We know about fevers, yep, kind
(04:10):
of know about dreams. Yeah, but apparently no one's really
gotten to work on figuring out what fever dreams themselves are.
So it's largely anecdotal. Yeah, so you're gonna have to
bear with us.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
We'll leave it. We'll leave that there for now.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, but I guess a good place to start is
by talking about both those things separately and starting with fevers.
You know, you've always heard ninety eight point six fahrenheit
is the normal internal body temperature of human that in
ninety two there was a big study that said is
(04:47):
really ninety eight point two depending on like how old
you are, what time of day it is, where you're doing,
where you if you put it in your butt or
in your under your armpit, or in your mouth or in.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Your ear or all of them at once.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
That'd be something else. Yeah, it can vary a little bit.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
So I think there's a bit of a slight sliding
scale to that number.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, for sure. But I think the key is is
it's going to be roughly around there. And even if
you have an average body temperature that's not exactly ninety
eight point six, let's say you typically tend toward ninety
seven point.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Five, you run cooler.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah, yeah, your body temperature still during the average day
gonna fluctuate plus or minus about a degree farent hide
either way. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
So I looked a little bit into the ninety eight
point six and the original dude that came up with
that was a German physician.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Named Carl Reinhold August Vondelich. It was good, a good one.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
When eighteen sixty eight he wrote a book, Well he
did his studies where he had this temperature rod he
would stick under the armpits of all these people.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
He's like, where do you want exactly?
Speaker 3 (05:57):
And everyone once said, everyone always says, do you know
the comedian Rory Scovel? No, he should just check him out.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Okay, he does these weird things, like he'll just do
his whole routine with a German accent.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Okay, like for no reason whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
I like the sound of that.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
And he did one about stealing old people, like kidnapping
old people for the German accent.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
He's from South Carolina, I think.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
But he's done shows with like a severe Southern accent
and one just normal accent, and he'll do a German thing.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
He just likes semester with people.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
I guess. So he's great.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I will check him out.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Thinks he's one of my favorites.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
So anyway, eighteen sixty eight he wrote a book called
after these experiments, called dos Vehauten Eerkin Frauma and kink
and Heighten.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
That is good and I looked at it. It's funny.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
The real translation I think of that as on the
temperature in diseases, but if you type it into Google
Translate comes out as the behavior of the intrinsically warm
and sick units.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
That's the subtitle.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, So anyway, he's a guy that came up in
ninety eight point six, and that stood for a long time.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
But that's just so that was just based on his observations,
his study, and it's stuck.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
It was an average. It wasn't like this is what
you should be. It was just the average of all
these people.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Right, And then one hundred thirty years later we finally
got around to verifying whether that was actually true or not.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Well, I mean, it says in ninety two that they
said it was ninety eight point two from another study,
but then everything I still read says ninety eight point six.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
So all right, well, I know what you're talking about,
though I had heard in the last few years that
they're like that ninety eight point six Chazz is kind
of kind of made up. So the point is is
that your body's going to be roughly somewhere around there, right,
that's your normal body temperature, yes, and then depending on
the time of day, it's either going to be a
little cooler in that or a little warmer than that.
(08:00):
And our body temperature is regulated by something called the hypothalamus.
And like I said, depending on the time of day,
your body temperature is going to fluctuate, and that's tied
to sleep apparently, so as your body temperature is rising,
usually in the late afternoon is about where it peaks
during the day. That's associated with wakefulness. Alertness not necessarily
(08:22):
just having a high body temperature, but an incline in
the temperature in your body means you're awake, you're alert,
you're ready to go, right yeah, ready for action. Once
it starts to decline, that's associated with drowsiness and it
hits it's it's trough. Your body temperatures at its lowest
(08:44):
right about before you wake up, and that's actually associated
with r EM sleep. Yeah, so there are some stuff
starting to come out. Just bear with us, everybody.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
We're laying the groundwork.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
So your body temperature changes, the hypothalamus is directing the
whole thing, and sleep and wakefulness has something to do.
It's related to your body temperature changes. All right, good night.
You take it from here.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Well, you know what, let's take a break because I'm
not sure where i should go.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
We'll be right back. Okay, I was being coy. You
(09:40):
set the stage very nicely.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
So if your body gets let's say, some bad bacteria
gets in it, yeah, and your body is alerted, warning
intruder is coming. Your immune system kicks in the gear
and art's producing this biochemical material called a pyrogen.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Okay, this is my new favorite thing the body does.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Oh yeah, yeah, Well you knew that before, right, or
did you just not know the mechanism.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I mean I knew humans get fevers, and I knew
the fever was to kind of like cook out everything.
I didn't understand the mechanism. I answer your question, Well
take this part then, oh yeah, kind I yeah. So
these pyrogens, right, they are these biochemical markers that are
released by the immune system in the body. Or and
(10:34):
this is why I love this. There's some bacteria, some
pathogens that make humans sick that produce pyrogens naturally. So
when they show up, they just start releasing the me
and they just give themselves away.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yeah, it's they're big dummies in that way.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Right, They're like, hey, where's the party? They kick open
the door. They're carrying like a pony keg under one arm,
their gut sticking out. It's just that's that's like that
kind of bacteria, right, uh huh. So the pyrogens enter
the bloodstream, they travel to the hypothalamus, because remember the
hypothalamus controls your your body temperature. And this is what
(11:10):
they do, Chuck, are you ready for what the pyrogens do.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
They go to your hypothalmis and they dampen the heat
sensing neurons in the hypothalamus and they excite the cold
sensing neurons in your hypothalmis, and they trick your hypothalamis
into thinking your body's suddenly gotten very very cold. Yeah,
so that your hypothalamus turns the temperature up and says,
(11:35):
don't let any of this heat out. We gotta warm
back up. It tricks your body, your hypothomis, and in
creating a fever.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
And they do this because well, they don't do this
because but what happens from there? They do this because
they're dumb. But what happens from there is, like you said,
the fever, what a fever is, and why you want
that fever for at least a little while. Fever that
it does, it's it's trying to cook and burn and
bake that bacteria until it dies.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
It is your body's fighting. Like when you hear, you know,
like your fever broke, that's usually a good sign. That
means yeah, right, that your fever did its job and
it's cooked all that bacteria up, and you're going.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
To be on the men soon. Yeah. So basically that's
what's happening. And this is the great thing about a fever.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
But you know, fever makes you feel like crap because
it's a lot of hard work to kill all those things.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Well it is. There's a lot of your sympathetic nervous
system is kicked into high gear, which I found out
is one reason why they say you want to feed
a cold starve a fever because you don't want to
introduce digestion because it requires the parasympathetic nervous system right right,
fight or flight, and you don't want those two things
going on while your body has a fever. It's just
(12:51):
a lot of extra work for it. Right. But one
of the things that is going on when your body
has a fever, when that temperature rises, it's hard enough
on your organs, but it's also hard on the level
just the fact that they're operating outside of their normal
operating temperature. Yeah, and that makes it very hard on
them and can actually cook some of the ingredients inside
(13:13):
your cells.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
I mean it's like working in a too hot of
an environment. It's just never fun for anyone, right, although
I got some people love that stuff.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, but they're still they might like it, but they
still aren't working fast.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
You know, they might be happy, but they're slow.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
So if you have a fever, what's considered a fever
now in twenty seventeen, If you're an adult and your
oral temperature is above one hundred point four, or if
you're rectal or ear temperature is above one oh one,
then that's considered a fever. If your kid, good luck
getting anything besides the rectal temperature because.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
It's just tough.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
You have basically no right.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Well, yeah, which you have as wiggly kids who aren't like, sure,
stick something in my ear for force second. Yeah, but
up the up the kazoo.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
There's not really anything they can do about that.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
All they can do is say glavin.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
So the rectal temperature for a kid above one hundred
point four, and with adults like you don't have to
really worry about your fever too much. If it tops
one hundred and five for you know, any period of time,
you probably want to do something about that.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
That's what I saw was one hundred and five degree
farenthype mark was about where you should start to work.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, as an adult, and you're going to feel so awful.
If your tempera is one oh five, you've probably already
been to a doctor at that point, let's hope.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
So for kids it's different though.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
If you don't want to let your child get up
to one o five, that's bad, bad, bad.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
So what is it for kids that you really want
to start worrying about?
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Did you say, Oh, you know what, I'm not exactly sure.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I mean, it probably depends on whether you're a first
time pairing or this is your second.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, well, and it varies with the age. It's like
zero to eighteen months. It's something.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
And I guess you like what you should do is
go consult your doctor.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
But you know, any kind of temperature you should for
a child, you should kind of be a little more
alert about.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Right. But we're not in medical experts here.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
No we're not. And everything we're saying assumes that you
have healthcare coverage.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
That's right, all right, So that's fever in general. You
got anything else on that?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah? One other thing. The the pyrogen's.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Piro by the way, it's no mistake. Man, I did
have some coincidence.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
No, it's not. What is it Latin for fire? Greek
word for fire? Yeah, Piro eat def Leppard. Right, great song,
it really is, all right the whole album album.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah. They just mentioned it in Rock of Ages. Yeah,
it comes up.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
They should have a song called Pyromania wonderful.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
But that's pretty cool. It's like the antithesis of your band,
your album, and your song all being the same name.
Like Big Country. Oh I love that song, sure, but
it's pretty uncreative. But you're basically saying, like, here's our
basket and we're gonna put every egg we have into it.
It's the one one thing we came up with.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
I saw David Spade bit once and he was talking
about He's complaining it wasn't even comedy. He was just
complaining that he went and saw a Big Country and
they didn't play the song Big Country. Now. Yeah. Really,
He's like, it's the name of your band, It's the
one song everybody came to see and they play it.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
He's funny too.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Well. The long, the long and short of it is
is I totally forgot what the other thing I had
to say about pirate tins was, so I'll probably think
of it. Oh, I know what it was pyrogens. As
your immune system grows in ages and you become a
grown up, the pyrogens have a little less of an
effect on you. So where if you're a kid and
(16:56):
your immune system is young and inexperienced, your fever's gonna
shoot up quick, and it's going to it's gonna get
hotter faster. So you do want to stay on top
of a kid's fever because their immune system is not
used to pyrogens coming and messing with their hypothalamus, making
adults it is.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah, it'll spike much faster. That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
That's what I was trying to think of.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Yeah, that's true. You need to take that.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
You need to take that rectal temperature way more than
you're comfortable with.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
I don't recall that ever having been done to me.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Well, because you don't remember being a baby. No, But my.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Parents were pretty strict, pretty stern. No.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
And by the time a kid is old enough to
where you can say like, hey, put this under your tongue,
or hold still for a minute while I put this
in your ear. Yeah, but pre that when they're not
sentient humans, and they're just, you know, crying, whiny little
sacks of flesh.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I got you.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
You got to stick it right up the butt. Okay,
Harry's laughing.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
She almost spit out her schwarm of salad.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Harry's done plenty of that, so she knows. Okay, So
into dreams. I always think we've done a general show
on dreams.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
I think we did. Finally, I didn't find it.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
What still, No, I saw lucid dreaming. Can you control
your dreams?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
That's the same thing, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I think that was the maybe. Yeah, No, we did.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
One on dreams.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I didn't see it.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Wow, I can't believe it. I can't believe it. Well,
this contributes to the little by little.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Someone will know.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Okay, Jill Hurley, where are you when we need you?
Our stattician Minister of stats?
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Right, all right, Well we'll talk about.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Dreams a bit here then, even though we've explained this
in various episodes here and there to some degree, but uh, dreams.
You know, if you're a psychologist, you really love to
spend time talking and dissecting dreams, interpreting dreams.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
If you're a.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
More into the neurology side of some cis, you don't
really care about that kind of stuff. In fact, for
many years they thought it was called activation synthesis hypothesis,
which was you go to sleep and all these synapses
are just randomly firing and they don't really add up
to even a story. You just do that when you
(19:19):
wake up because you're human. Yeah, but that, I mean,
that's complete bs.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Well, you almost get the impression that they came up
with this and the neurologists came up with it to
stick out their territory. In response to years of psychoanalysts
saying this is what dreams are, right, like tapping into
the collective unconscious or your repressed memories, neuroscience said, no, nothing, Yeah,
(19:44):
they're just your stupid wet brain going crazy while you sleep.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Yeah, which we all know now is not true.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I saw another one too, what's that threat simulation theory?
Have you heard of that one?
Speaker 3 (19:57):
No, but that's a great band name.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Basically, it's you're training to be a ninja while you sleep,
Like your brain is running threat simulations constantly, so that
it's like working itself out, like getting more and more
agile and quick and like like, so you can get
better at running from a saber tooth tiger, right, if
you actually encounter it.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
I could see that early on maybe.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Sure, And there is an evolutionary advantage to it, so
evolutionarily speaking, it would make sense. The point is it
that one came along and was like, no, there's obviously
some reason for dreams, it's not just random.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Well, and then maybe I could have seen that early on.
But then at some point someone around the fire had
a dream about TikTok's wife and woke up and went, whoa, right,
there's no saber tooth tiger in that. I'm not sure
what that meant, but I better not tell tiktook right,
you know.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
And then they went, what's a rectal thermometer? It hasn't
even been invented yet.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
So these days they've done actual studies with EEG machines
and MRI machines, and especially in Italy, these Italian researchers
basically put people to sleep, not put them to.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Sleep in a sleeper hole.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
They lay them down in a nice Italian bed, feed
them some pasta fazoul.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
And get out the rectal thermometer.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yep, and they hook them up to all these wires
and machines and then they will wake them up at
different points in the night and say, hey, what were
you dreaming of? We'd like to talk about it and
study what was going on with these machines.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Right, And they actually what they found supports the current
the prevailing theory. I don't think it was their theory.
I think it was around, but their research supports it
called affect regulation theory, which is basically that we control
our emotions or we process our emotions through our dreams. Yeah,
(21:53):
and these Italians found support for this and that when
they woke people up and asked them what they were
dreaming about, the ones who had the best recall were
the ones who had the most Theta waves in their
frontal lobes.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Right, which are slow moving waves. Right.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yes, And when you look at an EEG machine, if
you looked at those dreamers brain waves, it looked like
the brain waves of somebody who was sitting there forming
and recalling memories.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
So these people said, that's what they're doing. That's what
all of us are doing. While we're dreaming, we're forming memories.
We're taking emotions that we've experienced through the day, and
we're creating memories. Out of them so we can file
them away. So we're processing our emotions in our dreams.
That's the point of dreams. That's the current understanding. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
And then I mean other parts of the brain that
have been active all sort of deal with emotion, whether
it's the amygdala and the hippocampus or the lingual gyrus,
which I think.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
We just talked about that in another episode.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I don't recall.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
I can't remember, but.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
They're all areas of the brain that relate to emotion
and memory, right, and some with visual activity.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
And you know that kind of makes sense. I like
that theory. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
And then under that current theory, so that's like the
explanation for regular dreams. And you can't just have a
theory for dreams without including nightmares or else your theory's broken. Right,
So the affect regulation theory considers nightmares. Basically, it's an
emotion that's being put into the process of being, of
creating a memory, a false memory, right, a dream memory,
(23:29):
I guess you put it. But it's a real emotion, right,
and it's so big it breaks the process, and all
of a sudden, this process of creating a fake memory,
a fake experience goes haywire, and now all of a
sudden you're enduring some terrible, horrifying experience because the emotion
that was being processed was too big and got out
(23:51):
of control. And now you have a nightmare ts for you.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Yeah, I think we did one night terrors, right.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
We did for sure, all right? And sleep paralysis, we've
covered it all.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I think I.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Guess we really haven't done a dreams one.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
All right, So let's take another break.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
We're gonna come back and finally talk about fever dreams.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
You robbed me of a Saturday night fever reference. I
just want to go on record as saying.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
That I was wrong.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
So Chuck, here's where everything just kind of goes totally
off the rail. We've talked about fevers, We've talked about nightmares.
The problem is really understanding both doesn't necessarily amount to
understanding them together. Right, So, knowing what fevers are, knowing
(25:02):
what dreams are, it doesn't mean you know what fever
dreams are. But you can make stuff up if you want.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, and I'm boy, I don't even think we even
said if you've never had a fever dream, you might
even know we're talking about. Oh yeah, feel kind of
dumb at this point in the podcast. But a fever
dream is basically a nightmare on steroids. It's just so
vivid and so real and scary, right, that happens, you know,
(25:29):
when you are sick with a fever.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yes, obviously, so they're fever dreams, right, So they are
a thing. Yeah, but the scientific literature on them is
super thin, basically non existent.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
It seemed to get them, if not more, at least
they stand out more to children, right, And so anecdotally
people seem to recall having fever dreams more when they
were kids. Whether or not that's true or just a
memory is or you know, what do you call it,
like a memory bias or whatever.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah, no one really knows.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, well yeah, I mean we don't really know because.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I don't remember the last time I had a fever
and if I did, whether or not I had a
fever dream.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
I don't think I've ever had a fever dream.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
I did when I was a kid.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
I don't remember having fever dream.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, I remember being sick as a kid and having
like nightmares when I was sick.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
So like they're noticeably worse than your average nightmare. Yes, really,
so would you keep waking up from them that I
don't remember. See, that's that's a big question to me. Well,
let's talk about the anecdotal theory of what is behind
fever dreams. Right, Okay, So when your body's undergoing a fever,
(26:42):
we said that your body's not functioning at its top performance,
and that includes the brain. The brain itself is an
extremely special organ if you didn't know already, it's like,
I think two percent of the body's mass, yeah, but
it requires twenty percent of the bodies energy.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
And the neurons compared to regular old dumb cells, they
burn or they need about between three hundred and twenty
five hundred times more energy, right than a regular old
dumb cell in your body.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
And so when all these chemical processes, when all of
this energy is being exploited to power cells, it produces
the byproduct of heat.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
So the brain is super sensitive to overheating. Right already,
it's just under normal circumstances.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, and it's generally taken care of by your body
likes you know that it's cooled down right and regulated.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Right. So, if you have a fever and your brain
is not operating at optimal conditions, but you're asleep, so
it's trying to go through its normal processes. If you
have a nightmare, it's entirely possible that that nightmare is
going to be far, far worse because the normal processes
(28:00):
of broken down, or it's even further possible. Apparently, the
amygdala is frequently implicated with nightmares because it has to
do with being terrified or angry or fearful. The amygdala
might be functioning at an abnormal level. Yeah, and it's
just basically going haywired while you have a fever.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
And then the fact that most dreams occur during rim sleep,
and I think that's when your body is warmest sleep anyway, right.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
That's when see, this is where it all gets kind
of hinky. During r em sleep, your hypothalamus says I'm done,
I'm not working right now, so it stops regulating temperature,
which is usually why your body temperature is lowest right
before you wake up.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Oh I thought it was highest right before you wake up.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
No, it's highest in the afternoon while you're awake. It's
lowest right before you wake up.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
I feel like I always wake up hot.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
You I mean, you may be like sleeping with too
many blankets. Your room might be a little.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Too warmlankets, huh.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Or maybe it's my stupid you know, schedule of my
ac I mean it could be you know, it might
have cut off a couple hours before or something.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Right, it could be right, so fires up after I
get up.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Because supposedly, when you are sleeping and you're in ram sleep,
your hypothalamus is not regulating temperature during that period. So
if you if you are already hot and remember high
body temperatures associated with wakefulness, Yeah, then maybe you are
waking up more frequently than you normally would, and when
(29:34):
you wake up in the middle of a dream, you're
more prone to remember it. If you wake up in
the middle of a nightmare, it's going to seem even
worse than one that you had and woke up normally from.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, I mean, I had a series of not nightmares
last night, but just sort of anxiety dreams. And I
don't have any anxiety about anything right now. I think
it was just after reading all this stuff. Oh yeah,
I'm just suggestible.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
You had anxiety dreams.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, huh, but not about like nothing specific.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
No, like there's you know, usually if I have anxiety dreams.
I'm just like, because something's going on in my life,
I'm anxiously sure. Yeah, but there was just a research
h I think. So, man, you're dedicated. But they're also
celebrity dreams because you know I've talked about those before. No, yeah,
yeah that I have just celebrity dreams all the time.
But they're just very normal that I'm just like friends
(30:24):
with celebrity people.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
But they were they anxiety ridden last night?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yes, Like I was hanging out with the band Luna.
Dean ware them of Luna, all right, and there was
but there was I can't remember exactly what was going on,
but you know, there was anxiety involved, like I was
trying to get somewhere and couldn't get there, like the
typical stupid dream stuff, you know.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
But Dean was in there somehow.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah. Have you talked to him today?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
I don't know him, but uh, I think I know
why they were in there, that's all I'll say.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Oh, okay, wink wink.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
So here's another thing that was our own article I
thought was interesting, just a little tidbit, was that some
recreational drugs like methan ecstasy can raise brain temperatures. Right,
That is one of the reasons they think that it
kills so many brain cells when you do those drugs.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Yeah, supposedly you're not supposed to take ecstasy in warm climates.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yeah, never, I have heard that.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, just norway. Well, there you have it, only it's
fall barred.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
What else? Is there anything else in here?
Speaker 2 (31:31):
No? Man, I can't believe we stretched this one out
as far as we did. Alrighty, we never have to
talk about fever dreams again, Chuck Good. If you want
to know more about fever dreams, well you might as
well start at HowStuffWorks dot com. There's nothing wrong with that.
And you can also just go around and look at
how sparse the research is on the internet for yourself.
(31:52):
And if you are a researcher and you know more
stuff about fever dreams, that you can point us to
let us know. Yeah. In the meantime, I think I
said search bars somewhere in there, which means it's time
for listener mail, you know what.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
I think Another reason the anxiety dreams is because I'm
barreling through the season of Fargo and the third season. Yeah,
and the two episodes I watched last night, which I
believe were if there are ten, I think it was
eight and nine. We're both just like ratcheted.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Up with tingin. I'm sure that's what it was, and
I think that probably had something to do with it.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
That happens to me sometimes I'll be watching something I
won't realize how on top of me it's gotten, and
then all of a sudden, like it goes to an
ad and I'm like really uptight about like this scratching
dent washing machine sale that's going on somewhere, and I
don't understand why, and I'm like, oh, wow, that TV
show really got to me.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Yeah, I think I think Fargo had something to do it.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I think you may have nailed it.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
All right.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I'm gonna call this one garden variety fan mail, which
we don't read a lot of these, so I'm going
to dig in. Hey, guys, that's all this is fan maail.
You guys are doing a great job, always have. It's
clear that with every episode you take great pains to
provide the most accurate information you can in the most
thoughtful way possible.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
How ironic that you would read this on the fever
Dreams of Us day.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
This has never been more evident to me than in
the episodes you did on puberty. I know it's been
a little while since he's came out, but just listen
to them, and it was touching to see how frequently
you tried to reassure young listeners what they're experiencing is
normal and that there was nothing wrong about what was happening.
To hear two grown men do their best talk to
young boys and girls about such sensitive material.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
What's a pleasure?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yes, at times I could practically feel you nervously twitching
while trying to discuss menstruation in an informative yet reassuring way,
but it was absolutely charming. Just reaffirm what we've always known.
You two are just a pair of great dudes.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Oh that's nice. Yeah, I like this guy.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
I've only been listening for a few years, but I'm
a lifetime fan. Now if you're keeping count, like to
put in a vote for DC for live shows. Josh
h E d G E E sorry E d G
E is edge and then ed two l's Edgel Edgel. Sure, yeah,
(34:12):
Josh Edgel or Edgel? I like Edgel or ed Gil
L or Edge.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I think Edgel Edgel sounds like a kid next door.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Josh Edgel, It's Josh and Josh. You know what, We
usually come to DC once a year. I don't think
we're coming this year though.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
No, we probably will be there early ish twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah. DC's always great to us, so what we'll definitely be.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Back yeah soonish yeah. Uh. And you can always fly
somewhere in the continental United States or Canada. Josh, take
that Asla Express up to Brooklyn exactly.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
It's a pleasure train.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
There you go. There's Rechtel thermometers everywhere. Uh. And if
you want to get in touch with us, you can
send us both and Jerry an email to Stuff podcast
at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
For more podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, everybody, Happy Saturday. It's Chuck here and I'm here
to deliver to you my pick for this week's Selects episode.
This is from July twenty seventeen. It's the episode how
Fever Dreams Work. And quite honestly, you guys have picked
this one because I don't remember much about it, so
I'm going to listen to it all over again myself,
so I hope you do as well. Hope you have
(00:22):
a great Saturday and a great weekend. Here we go
with How Fever Dreams Work. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know,
a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. How are you? I'm
Josh Clark, There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry. Jerry's
got a salad. Everything's normal, which means it's time. There's
stuff you should know.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Jerry's got this Shwarma special. She said, oh really, yeah,
she loves it. How you doing, good man? Feeling despite
myself kind of relaxed. Okay, I'm not feeling feverish. If
that's what you're driving at.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
No, that's not what I was driving at.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Uh yeah, no I'm not.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Do you get fevers a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
No, not anymore, although I haven't for a long time. Like,
I've never been like a fever person. I've probably had
like a handful maybe. How many fevers have you had?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Not a ton since I was a kid. Yeah, not
a lot of adult fevers, right, I.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Mean I've had like hip hop fever. I've had rock
and roll fever.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, yellow fever.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I've had a fever for a flavor of a brindle.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Oh man, me too.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
What are those? Those aren't even potato chips, are they?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
They're potato crisps, and those are good. They're mashed together
potato parts.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I don't think I want to know how those are made.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
No, it's like chicken McNuggets.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I think a unicorn just poops them out.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Have you seen unicorn pizza? It's a little much.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
There's a restaurant in New York, I'm not quite sure where,
maybe east Side. They have unicorn pizza. It's like dough, okay, good, start,
like a nice pastel colored frosting instead of sauce, a
mound of cotton candy nerds or pop rocks maybe, oh
(02:16):
good lord, and then some other stuff. Supposedly, it tastes
kind of good. I'll eat anything that has enough frosting
on it.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I like frosting, but I'm not into like sugary candies really.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Oh like nerds and pop rocks and stuff. You know,
I did brain stuff once. I'm pop rocks and that
was interesting.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, your tongue actually warms the pop rocks to the
point where they melt. And since they have CO two
trapped inside during the manufacturing process, that CO two suddenly
is released in a.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Pop so it's just a little bubble of CO two. Yeah,
that's gotta be good for you.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
It's funny.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
My head of roommate in college, like, not many adults
eat candy, Like people eat chocolate and stuff like that,
candy bars, but candy candy and an adults.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Is just a little strange anything. Yeah, do be candy?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Sure? Like what mentos? Not mint mentos? Like candy mentos?
I like those.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Well.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I had a roommate that would go to the convenience
store next and this is college granted, but he still
eats this stuff, I think, okay, And he would go
with like fifteen dollars and buy you know, like giant
sweet tarts, you know, those big chewable ones, sure, and
like a fun dip and nerds and just all kinds
(03:38):
of candy fun dip.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Remember liquam made there's the same thing. I think.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah, it's just a sugar sugar.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Right, Like I don't have a foot, but I've got
my liquim maide, Oh man, can you can? You guys
out there and podcast Lantel were stalling because we are
a big time because we happen upon a topic that
no one really knows what's what. Yeah, I mean we're
talking about fever dreams. We know about fevers, yep, kind
(04:10):
of know about dreams. Yeah, but apparently no one's really
gotten to work on figuring out what fever dreams themselves are.
So it's largely anecdotal. Yeah, so you're gonna have to
bear with us.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
We'll leave it. We'll leave that there for now.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, but I guess a good place to start is
by talking about both those things separately and starting with fevers.
You know, you've always heard ninety eight point six fahrenheit
is the normal internal body temperature of human that in
ninety two there was a big study that said is
(04:47):
really ninety eight point two depending on like how old
you are, what time of day it is, where you're doing,
where you if you put it in your butt or
in your under your armpit, or in your mouth or in.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Your ear or all of them at once.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
That'd be something else. Yeah, it can vary a little bit.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
So I think there's a bit of a slight sliding
scale to that number.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, for sure. But I think the key is is
it's going to be roughly around there. And even if
you have an average body temperature that's not exactly ninety
eight point six, let's say you typically tend toward ninety
seven point.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Five, you run cooler.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah, yeah, your body temperature still during the average day
gonna fluctuate plus or minus about a degree farent hide
either way. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
So I looked a little bit into the ninety eight
point six and the original dude that came up with
that was a German physician.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Named Carl Reinhold August Vondelich. It was good, a good one.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
When eighteen sixty eight he wrote a book, Well he
did his studies where he had this temperature rod he
would stick under the armpits of all these people.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
He's like, where do you want exactly?
Speaker 3 (05:57):
And everyone once said, everyone always says, do you know
the comedian Rory Scovel? No, he should just check him out.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Okay, he does these weird things, like he'll just do
his whole routine with a German accent.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Okay, like for no reason whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
I like the sound of that.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
And he did one about stealing old people, like kidnapping
old people for the German accent.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
He's from South Carolina, I think.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
But he's done shows with like a severe Southern accent
and one just normal accent, and he'll do a German thing.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
He just likes semester with people.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
I guess. So he's great.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I will check him out.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Thinks he's one of my favorites.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
So anyway, eighteen sixty eight he wrote a book called
after these experiments, called dos Vehauten Eerkin Frauma and kink
and Heighten.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
That is good and I looked at it. It's funny.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
The real translation I think of that as on the
temperature in diseases, but if you type it into Google
Translate comes out as the behavior of the intrinsically warm
and sick units.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
That's the subtitle.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, So anyway, he's a guy that came up in
ninety eight point six, and that stood for a long time.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
But that's just so that was just based on his observations,
his study, and it's stuck.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
It was an average. It wasn't like this is what
you should be. It was just the average of all
these people.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Right, And then one hundred thirty years later we finally
got around to verifying whether that was actually true or not.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Well, I mean, it says in ninety two that they
said it was ninety eight point two from another study,
but then everything I still read says ninety eight point six.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
So all right, well, I know what you're talking about,
though I had heard in the last few years that
they're like that ninety eight point six Chazz is kind
of kind of made up. So the point is is
that your body's going to be roughly somewhere around there, right,
that's your normal body temperature, yes, and then depending on
the time of day, it's either going to be a
little cooler in that or a little warmer than that.
(08:00):
And our body temperature is regulated by something called the hypothalamus.
And like I said, depending on the time of day,
your body temperature is going to fluctuate, and that's tied
to sleep apparently, so as your body temperature is rising,
usually in the late afternoon is about where it peaks
during the day. That's associated with wakefulness. Alertness not necessarily
(08:22):
just having a high body temperature, but an incline in
the temperature in your body means you're awake, you're alert,
you're ready to go, right yeah, ready for action. Once
it starts to decline, that's associated with drowsiness and it
hits it's it's trough. Your body temperatures at its lowest
(08:44):
right about before you wake up, and that's actually associated
with r EM sleep. Yeah, so there are some stuff
starting to come out. Just bear with us, everybody.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
We're laying the groundwork.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
So your body temperature changes, the hypothalamus is directing the
whole thing, and sleep and wakefulness has something to do.
It's related to your body temperature changes. All right, good night.
You take it from here.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Well, you know what, let's take a break because I'm
not sure where i should go.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
We'll be right back. Okay, I was being coy. You
(09:40):
set the stage very nicely.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
So if your body gets let's say, some bad bacteria
gets in it, yeah, and your body is alerted, warning
intruder is coming. Your immune system kicks in the gear
and art's producing this biochemical material called a pyrogen.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Okay, this is my new favorite thing the body does.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Oh yeah, yeah, Well you knew that before, right, or
did you just not know the mechanism.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I mean I knew humans get fevers, and I knew
the fever was to kind of like cook out everything.
I didn't understand the mechanism. I answer your question, Well
take this part then, oh yeah, kind I yeah. So
these pyrogens, right, they are these biochemical markers that are
released by the immune system in the body. Or and
(10:34):
this is why I love this. There's some bacteria, some
pathogens that make humans sick that produce pyrogens naturally. So
when they show up, they just start releasing the me
and they just give themselves away.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yeah, it's they're big dummies in that way.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Right, They're like, hey, where's the party? They kick open
the door. They're carrying like a pony keg under one arm,
their gut sticking out. It's just that's that's like that
kind of bacteria, right, uh huh. So the pyrogens enter
the bloodstream, they travel to the hypothalamus, because remember the
hypothalamus controls your your body temperature. And this is what
(11:10):
they do, Chuck, are you ready for what the pyrogens do.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
They go to your hypothalmis and they dampen the heat
sensing neurons in the hypothalamus and they excite the cold
sensing neurons in your hypothalmis, and they trick your hypothalamis
into thinking your body's suddenly gotten very very cold. Yeah,
so that your hypothalamus turns the temperature up and says,
(11:35):
don't let any of this heat out. We gotta warm
back up. It tricks your body, your hypothomis, and in
creating a fever.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
And they do this because well, they don't do this
because but what happens from there? They do this because
they're dumb. But what happens from there is, like you said,
the fever, what a fever is, and why you want
that fever for at least a little while. Fever that
it does, it's it's trying to cook and burn and
bake that bacteria until it dies.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
It is your body's fighting. Like when you hear, you know,
like your fever broke, that's usually a good sign. That
means yeah, right, that your fever did its job and
it's cooked all that bacteria up, and you're going.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
To be on the men soon. Yeah. So basically that's
what's happening. And this is the great thing about a fever.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
But you know, fever makes you feel like crap because
it's a lot of hard work to kill all those things.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Well it is. There's a lot of your sympathetic nervous
system is kicked into high gear, which I found out
is one reason why they say you want to feed
a cold starve a fever because you don't want to
introduce digestion because it requires the parasympathetic nervous system right right,
fight or flight, and you don't want those two things
going on while your body has a fever. It's just
(12:51):
a lot of extra work for it. Right. But one
of the things that is going on when your body
has a fever, when that temperature rises, it's hard enough
on your organs, but it's also hard on the level
just the fact that they're operating outside of their normal
operating temperature. Yeah, and that makes it very hard on
them and can actually cook some of the ingredients inside
(13:13):
your cells.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
I mean it's like working in a too hot of
an environment. It's just never fun for anyone, right, although
I got some people love that stuff.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, but they're still they might like it, but they
still aren't working fast.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
You know, they might be happy, but they're slow.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
So if you have a fever, what's considered a fever
now in twenty seventeen, If you're an adult and your
oral temperature is above one hundred point four, or if
you're rectal or ear temperature is above one oh one,
then that's considered a fever. If your kid, good luck
getting anything besides the rectal temperature because.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
It's just tough.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
You have basically no right.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Well, yeah, which you have as wiggly kids who aren't like, sure,
stick something in my ear for force second. Yeah, but
up the up the kazoo.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
There's not really anything they can do about that.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
All they can do is say glavin.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
So the rectal temperature for a kid above one hundred
point four, and with adults like you don't have to
really worry about your fever too much. If it tops
one hundred and five for you know, any period of time,
you probably want to do something about that.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
That's what I saw was one hundred and five degree
farenthype mark was about where you should start to work.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, as an adult, and you're going to feel so awful.
If your tempera is one oh five, you've probably already
been to a doctor at that point, let's hope.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
So for kids it's different though.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
If you don't want to let your child get up
to one o five, that's bad, bad, bad.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
So what is it for kids that you really want
to start worrying about?
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Did you say, Oh, you know what, I'm not exactly sure.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I mean, it probably depends on whether you're a first
time pairing or this is your second.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, well, and it varies with the age. It's like
zero to eighteen months. It's something.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
And I guess you like what you should do is
go consult your doctor.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
But you know, any kind of temperature you should for
a child, you should kind of be a little more
alert about.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Right. But we're not in medical experts here.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
No we're not. And everything we're saying assumes that you
have healthcare coverage.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
That's right, all right, So that's fever in general. You
got anything else on that?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah? One other thing. The the pyrogen's.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Piro by the way, it's no mistake. Man, I did
have some coincidence.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
No, it's not. What is it Latin for fire? Greek
word for fire? Yeah, Piro eat def Leppard. Right, great song,
it really is, all right the whole album album.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah. They just mentioned it in Rock of Ages. Yeah,
it comes up.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
They should have a song called Pyromania wonderful.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
But that's pretty cool. It's like the antithesis of your band,
your album, and your song all being the same name.
Like Big Country. Oh I love that song, sure, but
it's pretty uncreative. But you're basically saying, like, here's our
basket and we're gonna put every egg we have into it.
It's the one one thing we came up with.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
I saw David Spade bit once and he was talking
about He's complaining it wasn't even comedy. He was just
complaining that he went and saw a Big Country and
they didn't play the song Big Country. Now. Yeah. Really,
He's like, it's the name of your band, It's the
one song everybody came to see and they play it.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
He's funny too.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Well. The long, the long and short of it is
is I totally forgot what the other thing I had
to say about pirate tins was, so I'll probably think
of it. Oh, I know what it was pyrogens. As
your immune system grows in ages and you become a
grown up, the pyrogens have a little less of an
effect on you. So where if you're a kid and
(16:56):
your immune system is young and inexperienced, your fever's gonna
shoot up quick, and it's going to it's gonna get
hotter faster. So you do want to stay on top
of a kid's fever because their immune system is not
used to pyrogens coming and messing with their hypothalamus, making
adults it is.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah, it'll spike much faster. That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
That's what I was trying to think of.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Yeah, that's true. You need to take that.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
You need to take that rectal temperature way more than
you're comfortable with.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
I don't recall that ever having been done to me.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Well, because you don't remember being a baby. No, But my.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Parents were pretty strict, pretty stern. No.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
And by the time a kid is old enough to
where you can say like, hey, put this under your tongue,
or hold still for a minute while I put this
in your ear. Yeah, but pre that when they're not
sentient humans, and they're just, you know, crying, whiny little
sacks of flesh.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I got you.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
You got to stick it right up the butt. Okay,
Harry's laughing.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
She almost spit out her schwarm of salad.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Harry's done plenty of that, so she knows. Okay, So
into dreams. I always think we've done a general show
on dreams.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
I think we did. Finally, I didn't find it.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
What still, No, I saw lucid dreaming. Can you control
your dreams?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
That's the same thing, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I think that was the maybe. Yeah, No, we did.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
One on dreams.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I didn't see it.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Wow, I can't believe it. I can't believe it. Well,
this contributes to the little by little.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Someone will know.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Okay, Jill Hurley, where are you when we need you?
Our stattician Minister of stats?
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Right, all right, Well we'll talk about.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Dreams a bit here then, even though we've explained this
in various episodes here and there to some degree, but uh, dreams.
You know, if you're a psychologist, you really love to
spend time talking and dissecting dreams, interpreting dreams.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
If you're a.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
More into the neurology side of some cis, you don't
really care about that kind of stuff. In fact, for
many years they thought it was called activation synthesis hypothesis,
which was you go to sleep and all these synapses
are just randomly firing and they don't really add up
to even a story. You just do that when you
(19:19):
wake up because you're human. Yeah, but that, I mean,
that's complete bs.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Well, you almost get the impression that they came up
with this and the neurologists came up with it to
stick out their territory. In response to years of psychoanalysts
saying this is what dreams are, right, like tapping into
the collective unconscious or your repressed memories, neuroscience said, no, nothing, Yeah,
(19:44):
they're just your stupid wet brain going crazy while you sleep.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Yeah, which we all know now is not true.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I saw another one too, what's that threat simulation theory?
Have you heard of that one?
Speaker 3 (19:57):
No, but that's a great band name.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Basically, it's you're training to be a ninja while you sleep,
Like your brain is running threat simulations constantly, so that
it's like working itself out, like getting more and more
agile and quick and like like, so you can get
better at running from a saber tooth tiger, right, if
you actually encounter it.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
I could see that early on maybe.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Sure, And there is an evolutionary advantage to it, so
evolutionarily speaking, it would make sense. The point is it
that one came along and was like, no, there's obviously
some reason for dreams, it's not just random.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Well, and then maybe I could have seen that early on.
But then at some point someone around the fire had
a dream about TikTok's wife and woke up and went, whoa, right,
there's no saber tooth tiger in that. I'm not sure
what that meant, but I better not tell tiktook right,
you know.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
And then they went, what's a rectal thermometer? It hasn't
even been invented yet.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
So these days they've done actual studies with EEG machines
and MRI machines, and especially in Italy, these Italian researchers
basically put people to sleep, not put them to.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Sleep in a sleeper hole.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
They lay them down in a nice Italian bed, feed
them some pasta fazoul.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
And get out the rectal thermometer.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yep, and they hook them up to all these wires
and machines and then they will wake them up at
different points in the night and say, hey, what were
you dreaming of? We'd like to talk about it and
study what was going on with these machines.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Right, And they actually what they found supports the current
the prevailing theory. I don't think it was their theory.
I think it was around, but their research supports it
called affect regulation theory, which is basically that we control
our emotions or we process our emotions through our dreams. Yeah,
(21:53):
and these Italians found support for this and that when
they woke people up and asked them what they were
dreaming about, the ones who had the best recall were
the ones who had the most Theta waves in their
frontal lobes.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Right, which are slow moving waves. Right.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yes, And when you look at an EEG machine, if
you looked at those dreamers brain waves, it looked like
the brain waves of somebody who was sitting there forming
and recalling memories.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
So these people said, that's what they're doing. That's what
all of us are doing. While we're dreaming, we're forming memories.
We're taking emotions that we've experienced through the day, and
we're creating memories. Out of them so we can file
them away. So we're processing our emotions in our dreams.
That's the point of dreams. That's the current understanding. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
And then I mean other parts of the brain that
have been active all sort of deal with emotion, whether
it's the amygdala and the hippocampus or the lingual gyrus,
which I think.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
We just talked about that in another episode.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I don't recall.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
I can't remember, but.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
They're all areas of the brain that relate to emotion
and memory, right, and some with visual activity.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
And you know that kind of makes sense. I like
that theory. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
And then under that current theory, so that's like the
explanation for regular dreams. And you can't just have a
theory for dreams without including nightmares or else your theory's broken. Right,
So the affect regulation theory considers nightmares. Basically, it's an
emotion that's being put into the process of being, of
creating a memory, a false memory, right, a dream memory,
(23:29):
I guess you put it. But it's a real emotion, right,
and it's so big it breaks the process, and all
of a sudden, this process of creating a fake memory,
a fake experience goes haywire, and now all of a
sudden you're enduring some terrible, horrifying experience because the emotion
that was being processed was too big and got out
(23:51):
of control. And now you have a nightmare ts for you.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Yeah, I think we did one night terrors, right.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
We did for sure, all right? And sleep paralysis, we've
covered it all.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I think I.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Guess we really haven't done a dreams one.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
All right, So let's take another break.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
We're gonna come back and finally talk about fever dreams.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
You robbed me of a Saturday night fever reference. I
just want to go on record as saying.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
That I was wrong.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
So Chuck, here's where everything just kind of goes totally
off the rail. We've talked about fevers, We've talked about nightmares.
The problem is really understanding both doesn't necessarily amount to
understanding them together. Right, So, knowing what fevers are, knowing
(25:02):
what dreams are, it doesn't mean you know what fever
dreams are. But you can make stuff up if you want.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, and I'm boy, I don't even think we even
said if you've never had a fever dream, you might
even know we're talking about. Oh yeah, feel kind of
dumb at this point in the podcast. But a fever
dream is basically a nightmare on steroids. It's just so
vivid and so real and scary, right, that happens, you know,
(25:29):
when you are sick with a fever.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yes, obviously, so they're fever dreams, right, So they are
a thing. Yeah, but the scientific literature on them is
super thin, basically non existent.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
It seemed to get them, if not more, at least
they stand out more to children, right, And so anecdotally
people seem to recall having fever dreams more when they
were kids. Whether or not that's true or just a
memory is or you know, what do you call it,
like a memory bias or whatever.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah, no one really knows.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, well yeah, I mean we don't really know because.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I don't remember the last time I had a fever
and if I did, whether or not I had a
fever dream.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
I don't think I've ever had a fever dream.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
I did when I was a kid.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
I don't remember having fever dream.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, I remember being sick as a kid and having
like nightmares when I was sick.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
So like they're noticeably worse than your average nightmare. Yes, really,
so would you keep waking up from them that I
don't remember. See, that's that's a big question to me. Well,
let's talk about the anecdotal theory of what is behind
fever dreams. Right, Okay, So when your body's undergoing a fever,
(26:42):
we said that your body's not functioning at its top performance,
and that includes the brain. The brain itself is an
extremely special organ if you didn't know already, it's like,
I think two percent of the body's mass, yeah, but
it requires twenty percent of the bodies energy.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
And the neurons compared to regular old dumb cells, they
burn or they need about between three hundred and twenty
five hundred times more energy, right than a regular old
dumb cell in your body.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
And so when all these chemical processes, when all of
this energy is being exploited to power cells, it produces
the byproduct of heat.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
So the brain is super sensitive to overheating. Right already,
it's just under normal circumstances.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, and it's generally taken care of by your body
likes you know that it's cooled down right and regulated.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Right. So, if you have a fever and your brain
is not operating at optimal conditions, but you're asleep, so
it's trying to go through its normal processes. If you
have a nightmare, it's entirely possible that that nightmare is
going to be far, far worse because the normal processes
(28:00):
of broken down, or it's even further possible. Apparently, the
amygdala is frequently implicated with nightmares because it has to
do with being terrified or angry or fearful. The amygdala
might be functioning at an abnormal level. Yeah, and it's
just basically going haywired while you have a fever.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
And then the fact that most dreams occur during rim sleep,
and I think that's when your body is warmest sleep anyway, right.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
That's when see, this is where it all gets kind
of hinky. During r em sleep, your hypothalamus says I'm done,
I'm not working right now, so it stops regulating temperature,
which is usually why your body temperature is lowest right
before you wake up.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Oh I thought it was highest right before you wake up.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
No, it's highest in the afternoon while you're awake. It's
lowest right before you wake up.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
I feel like I always wake up hot.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
You I mean, you may be like sleeping with too
many blankets. Your room might be a little.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Too warmlankets, huh.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Or maybe it's my stupid you know, schedule of my
ac I mean it could be you know, it might
have cut off a couple hours before or something.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Right, it could be right, so fires up after I
get up.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Because supposedly, when you are sleeping and you're in ram sleep,
your hypothalamus is not regulating temperature during that period. So
if you if you are already hot and remember high
body temperatures associated with wakefulness, Yeah, then maybe you are
waking up more frequently than you normally would, and when
(29:34):
you wake up in the middle of a dream, you're
more prone to remember it. If you wake up in
the middle of a nightmare, it's going to seem even
worse than one that you had and woke up normally from.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, I mean, I had a series of not nightmares
last night, but just sort of anxiety dreams. And I
don't have any anxiety about anything right now. I think
it was just after reading all this stuff. Oh yeah,
I'm just suggestible.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
You had anxiety dreams.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, huh, but not about like nothing specific.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
No, like there's you know, usually if I have anxiety dreams.
I'm just like, because something's going on in my life,
I'm anxiously sure. Yeah, but there was just a research
h I think. So, man, you're dedicated. But they're also
celebrity dreams because you know I've talked about those before. No, yeah,
yeah that I have just celebrity dreams all the time.
But they're just very normal that I'm just like friends
(30:24):
with celebrity people.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
But they were they anxiety ridden last night?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yes, Like I was hanging out with the band Luna.
Dean ware them of Luna, all right, and there was
but there was I can't remember exactly what was going on,
but you know, there was anxiety involved, like I was
trying to get somewhere and couldn't get there, like the
typical stupid dream stuff, you know.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
But Dean was in there somehow.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah. Have you talked to him today?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
I don't know him, but uh, I think I know
why they were in there, that's all I'll say.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Oh, okay, wink wink.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
So here's another thing that was our own article I
thought was interesting, just a little tidbit, was that some
recreational drugs like methan ecstasy can raise brain temperatures. Right,
That is one of the reasons they think that it
kills so many brain cells when you do those drugs.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Yeah, supposedly you're not supposed to take ecstasy in warm climates.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yeah, never, I have heard that.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, just norway. Well, there you have it, only it's
fall barred.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
What else? Is there anything else in here?
Speaker 2 (31:31):
No? Man, I can't believe we stretched this one out
as far as we did. Alrighty, we never have to
talk about fever dreams again, Chuck Good. If you want
to know more about fever dreams, well you might as
well start at HowStuffWorks dot com. There's nothing wrong with that.
And you can also just go around and look at
how sparse the research is on the internet for yourself.
(31:52):
And if you are a researcher and you know more
stuff about fever dreams, that you can point us to
let us know. Yeah. In the meantime, I think I
said search bars somewhere in there, which means it's time
for listener mail, you know what.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
I think Another reason the anxiety dreams is because I'm
barreling through the season of Fargo and the third season. Yeah,
and the two episodes I watched last night, which I
believe were if there are ten, I think it was
eight and nine. We're both just like ratcheted.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Up with tingin. I'm sure that's what it was, and
I think that probably had something to do with it.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
That happens to me sometimes I'll be watching something I
won't realize how on top of me it's gotten, and
then all of a sudden, like it goes to an
ad and I'm like really uptight about like this scratching
dent washing machine sale that's going on somewhere, and I
don't understand why, and I'm like, oh, wow, that TV
show really got to me.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Yeah, I think I think Fargo had something to do it.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I think you may have nailed it.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
All right.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I'm gonna call this one garden variety fan mail, which
we don't read a lot of these, so I'm going
to dig in. Hey, guys, that's all this is fan maail.
You guys are doing a great job, always have. It's
clear that with every episode you take great pains to
provide the most accurate information you can in the most
thoughtful way possible.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
How ironic that you would read this on the fever
Dreams of Us day.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
This has never been more evident to me than in
the episodes you did on puberty. I know it's been
a little while since he's came out, but just listen
to them, and it was touching to see how frequently
you tried to reassure young listeners what they're experiencing is
normal and that there was nothing wrong about what was happening.
To hear two grown men do their best talk to
young boys and girls about such sensitive material.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
What's a pleasure?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yes, at times I could practically feel you nervously twitching
while trying to discuss menstruation in an informative yet reassuring way,
but it was absolutely charming. Just reaffirm what we've always known.
You two are just a pair of great dudes.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Oh that's nice. Yeah, I like this guy.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
I've only been listening for a few years, but I'm
a lifetime fan. Now if you're keeping count, like to
put in a vote for DC for live shows. Josh
h E d G E E sorry E d G
E is edge and then ed two l's Edgel Edgel. Sure, yeah,
(34:12):
Josh Edgel or Edgel? I like Edgel or ed Gil
L or Edge.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I think Edgel Edgel sounds like a kid next door.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Josh Edgel, It's Josh and Josh. You know what, We
usually come to DC once a year. I don't think
we're coming this year though.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
No, we probably will be there early ish twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah. DC's always great to us, so what we'll definitely be.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Back yeah soonish yeah. Uh. And you can always fly
somewhere in the continental United States or Canada. Josh, take
that Asla Express up to Brooklyn exactly.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
It's a pleasure train.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
There you go. There's Rechtel thermometers everywhere. Uh. And if
you want to get in touch with us, you can
send us both and Jerry an email to Stuff podcast
at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
For more podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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It’s the unlikeliest of criminal partnerships: a devout polygamist from an insular Utah sect joining forces with a shadowy Armenian tycoon from LA. The result - a billion dollar fraud conspiracy. In Kingdom of Fraud, investigative reporter Michele McPhee traces the origins of the extraordinary alliance between Jacob Kingston and Levon Termendzhyan. Together, the two men trigger the largest tax investigation in American history and weave around themselves a web of dirty cops, influential political relationships and transnational money laundering. All this is set against the backdrop of Jacob Kingston’s clan – The Order. A powerful and secretive polygamist organization in Salt Lake City. To whom Jacob is desperate to prove his worth. Kingdom of Fraud is produced by Novel for iHeart Podcasts. For more from Novel, visit https://novel.audio/. You can listen to new episodes of Kingdom of Fraud completely ad-free and 1 week early with an iHeart True Crime+ subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Open your Apple Podcasts app, search for “iHeart True Crime+, and subscribe today!