June 24, 2026 • 12 mins
Fear is different than being scared, most notably because fear is generally a negative thing and being scared can cause an enjoyable thrill. We'll get into the difference in today's episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ay, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, and
there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, sitting in per day
and this is stuff you should know. And we're here
to answer a perennial question that everyone wants to know,
just why in the gosh darn heck do we make
ourselves scared on purpose?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah? Here, scary, real quick, do something. Let's do a
little exercise.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
You're starting to look old.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
No, no, no, no, really scary, say boo or something.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Oh okay, that's gonna scare you more. Yeah, yeah, okay, boo.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Oh my god, oh boy. As it turns out, that
was really exhilarating and I feel great now.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, well you overcame a fear, a real threat.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah. It is an interesting question though, And thanks to
our old friends at housetf works dot com as well
as Psychology Today and the American Brain Foundation, who have
all as well as other places, looked into that weird
question of like you were talking about, like why would
anybody pay to go into a truly terrifying haunted house
or a truly terrifying movie.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
And like, yeah, we all know anecdotally or personally why,
but like if you step back and look at it
from you know, a rational standpoint. It makes zero sense whatsoever,
Like we're purposefully stimulating a what's meant to be like
an unpleasant experience, a pleasant response in ourselves.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, for sure, you know. We'll get into that in
a second. We need to sort of delineate though, like
what we're talking about. We did an episode on fear
a while back. It's a long time ago. I think
it was pretty good on if I remember correctly. But
we're not talking about anxiety, Like there's anxiety and there's fear.
Anxiety is the stuff that keeps you up at night,
like existential threats or am I getting old? Or is
(01:48):
our country being ruined? Or is there illumining war coming
to our country? Like things that haven't happened yet that
you're truly upset and anxious about. Is not the same
thing as as of something that is like somebody jumping
out and saying boost something that happens right in front
of your.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Face, exactly right, So you got that, And fear is
about something jumping out right in front of your face.
It's about like an immediate threat to your well being,
maybe your life, and it triggers the fight or flight response.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
So a little more about that. When you have the
fight or flight response, your pulse increases, your blood pressure increases,
you just get ready to run or fly, which is
the only time you can fly is when you're scared.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That's right. There have been people that research this stuff.
There's a book that we want to shout out called
Scream Scream with an exclamation point from Margie Key and
her colleague doctor Greg Siegel, who is director for the
Cognitive Neuroscience Program at University of Pittsburgh. But they their
description of what we're talking about, like paying to go
(03:02):
to a haunted house or something or a really scary movie,
as voluntary engagement with negative high arousal stimuli. So in
other words, it's like, yeah, I'll give you my hard
earned dollars to go into nether world in October and
because the thrill of getting the doo doo scared out
of me is like I enjoy that experience.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Yes, So yeah, that's a great, great term for it.
I say, we take a little break, Chuck, and then
we come back and we go step by step how
this whole thing goes.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, let's do it, okay, Chuck.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So we're talking about fun scary, not fun anxiety. I
don't think there is such a thing really as fun anxiety.
I mean, I guess it's like an existential or elevated
horror movie like that develops a sense of dread. Yeah, okay,
but it so rarely pays off in a good way.
It's yeah, I don't know there's a good version of it.
(04:26):
So we're talking like scary the fun version, right. And
one of the main reasons why we do this, it
turns out, is because we feel a sense of mastery
over this thing that overwhelms us, because we're choosing to
do this. That's step one. We're choosing to experience this
scary thing. And by saying like I'm choosing to do this,
(04:48):
although of course you don't do this step by step,
it just kind of happens. You're saying like, I'm in control,
I'm in charge. Yeah, I'm going into the scary haunted house.
But it's on the premise that I'm not actually going
to be stabbed. This rating guy, he's just going to
come up like he's about to say me, but he's
not going to follow through. Some part of me knows.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
That, Yeah, I mean that's always in the back of
your head. When you walk into a situation like that,
you're like, I'm gonna be fine. It's not like the
thrill that you get when somebody jumps out of the
shadows to you know, with a gun to mug you.
Not what we're talking about. So that's the first step,
is you're like acknowledging that you're choosing to do this
(05:28):
head on, so you've got some mastery. And then then
the scare happens, whatever that might be, whether it's a
movie or you know, a haunted house. I'm trying to
this seems like the obvious ones. I'm trying to think
of other ways. I guess maybe a scary roller coaster
or something. If that's a big fear.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, So that's when the fight or flight kicks in
and you're just flooded with you know, some really eventually
feel good stuff that dopamine and oxytocin and endorphins start firing,
and our our heart rate increases obviously, and our breathing
and our blood pressure and everything. So that's it's like
an exhilarating experience like biologically for your body, right.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So, yes, like you're you're amped I guess is the
way to put it. You know.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah, what did the kids say these days today? Digg
any toilet, skivitty toilet. By the way, I like diggity toilet.
Let's start a new thing, right boy? That six seven
thing went away like quicker than I've ever seen anything
go away.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I was reading a book last yesterday. It was Crime
and Punishment. And I'm not just saying this just to
show everybody. I'm reading Crime and Punishment, But somebody mentioned
something being like sixes and sevens and I couldn't tell
from the context what they were talking about. Still, I
think it was kind of positive or something like that.
But I was like, is that where that came from originally?
(06:51):
Or is it just coincidence?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
That was coincidence because they coincidence because they know where
it came from, which I want for you to tell
you that.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Well, it was a basketball play being interviewed. But where
did he.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Get Yeah, oh, I think it just came out of
nowhere and it just caught on. But my whole point
was that thing went away like in a matter of weeks.
I think as soon as all the parents started doing it,
like every small child. Like I'm talking people my daughter's
age and younger were like, no, like I did it
one time. She was like, ah, no, one does that.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah. I feel like that's a valuable lesson. If we
are ever all annoyed by something that the younger to
get into it, I think we just start saying it
our stuff just adopted ourselves for a week.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, for sure, I love it. That's a good We
should test that out. But the next stupid thing comes along. Okay,
you got it all right? So where were we? Fight
or flight? Yes?
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, so we're in fight or flight mode. I feel
bad for the poor person who were describing because they've
been stuck in fireflight mode the whole time we were
talking about Yeah, toilet's true. But we're back, person, so
don't worry because now your body, your parasympathetic nervous system
kicks in. Is like, cool out, everybody. Let's just mellow out.
Nothing actually happened. The threat is gone, and you can
(08:03):
just feel great. You can feel relaxed, you can feel
maybe even a sense of giddiness. You know, yeah, because
you're experiencing something that you still it's a it's a
transition between still having your fight or flight response going
and the parasympathetic things starting to kick in and take over.
And while they're kind of those levels are adjusting, it's
a very specific, unique, fun kind of feeling.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, for sure. And you can see that step literally
coinciding with the next benefit rather, which is like you know,
you're almost always doing this with like friends and family
or something like you're out to have a good time
with a group maybe or a small group, so you're
building like a bond of an experience that will scary
that you share together. And like you see it when
(08:49):
people are exiting nether World or when they're coming off
of that roller coaster, this almost euphoria of the shared
experience that everyone has and you're all talking about it like,
oh my god, that one part, that one room where
the guy had the chainsaw and I saw like on
your face like you were about to dodo in your pants,
and it's like it's exhilarating. It's a it's like a
high that you can see everyone like reliving the experience
(09:12):
together in this bond that they created that's just like
super fun.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, it is that guys. I mean you mentioned oxytocin
being released. That would explain that bonding, you.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Know, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
And also sometimes you'll like press your face into the
chest of the whoever.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
You're with, hopefully the person that you're with, right, Sometimes
those places are dark.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
You don't want to you don't want to do that
to a perfect stranger.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
No, you're like, oh, you smell like onions. You're not
my friend.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
My friend smells like cheese, so.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, foot cheese.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Oh god.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
So there's that feeling of catharsis. There's another I think
great point too, in addition to that whole feeling of
catharsis that comes from going through that rigormarole, and that
is like you're in a that scare place that you
put yourself in on purpose, right, the voluntary engagement with
negative high arisal stimuli. It's a place where you are
(10:09):
it's socially acceptable to do something like scream your head off, yeah,
and just let out stress. And that's a huge function
that those play as well. That's scaring ourselves play as well,
especially say like a roller coaster.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, for sure, Like you know, there's primal scream therapy.
But a lot of people would say like, well that
seems pretty weird. But that same person might go to
a haunted house and scream their head off because it's
like a socially acceptable thing to do. And if you're
someone who is, maybe you have like real life anxiety,
or maybe you have work in a place or in
(10:42):
a situation in your life where you always have to
maintain like a very high level of decorum. Yeah, and
you know, go to another world. They should sponsor this thing,
by the.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Way, I think so too. That's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
We should re release this in October and see if
we can get another world on board. I don't go
to those. Did you go to those? No?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Too scary for me?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, I mean I haven't been to a real haunted
house like that. I don't think ever. I think the
last haunted house I went to was in la Like
these people got together and did these really really high
quality ones in the neighborhood a couple over. But I'd
never paid to go into like the truly horrifying ones.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I haven't either, But it's not because I'm too scared.
I was kidding about that.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Why is it, you know, walk around in the dark
with a bunch of strangers that might put their head
in your chest? I don't.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
There's one either, let's go to one this year.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Okay, there's one here if you're willing to come down
some Universal Horror Nights. I think it's supposed to be
really good.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Is you me into that kind of thing?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
No?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
No, she doesn't like Peters Emily. All right, they can
wait outside while we go through.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yes, that's fine. They'll have fun doing that.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
They'll drink lemonade out of those big giant novelty plastic linens.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I guess that's it for short stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Hun Yeah, I think that means we're out. Stuff you
should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ay, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, and
there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, sitting in per day
and this is stuff you should know. And we're here
to answer a perennial question that everyone wants to know,
just why in the gosh darn heck do we make
ourselves scared on purpose?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah? Here, scary, real quick, do something. Let's do a
little exercise.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
You're starting to look old.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
No, no, no, no, really scary, say boo or something.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Oh okay, that's gonna scare you more. Yeah, yeah, okay, boo.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Oh my god, oh boy. As it turns out, that
was really exhilarating and I feel great now.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, well you overcame a fear, a real threat.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah. It is an interesting question though, And thanks to
our old friends at housetf works dot com as well
as Psychology Today and the American Brain Foundation, who have
all as well as other places, looked into that weird
question of like you were talking about, like why would
anybody pay to go into a truly terrifying haunted house
or a truly terrifying movie.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
And like, yeah, we all know anecdotally or personally why,
but like if you step back and look at it
from you know, a rational standpoint. It makes zero sense whatsoever,
Like we're purposefully stimulating a what's meant to be like
an unpleasant experience, a pleasant response in ourselves.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, for sure, you know. We'll get into that in
a second. We need to sort of delineate though, like
what we're talking about. We did an episode on fear
a while back. It's a long time ago. I think
it was pretty good on if I remember correctly. But
we're not talking about anxiety, Like there's anxiety and there's fear.
Anxiety is the stuff that keeps you up at night,
like existential threats or am I getting old? Or is
(01:48):
our country being ruined? Or is there illumining war coming
to our country? Like things that haven't happened yet that
you're truly upset and anxious about. Is not the same
thing as as of something that is like somebody jumping
out and saying boost something that happens right in front
of your.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Face, exactly right, So you got that, And fear is
about something jumping out right in front of your face.
It's about like an immediate threat to your well being,
maybe your life, and it triggers the fight or flight response.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
So a little more about that. When you have the
fight or flight response, your pulse increases, your blood pressure increases,
you just get ready to run or fly, which is
the only time you can fly is when you're scared.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That's right. There have been people that research this stuff.
There's a book that we want to shout out called
Scream Scream with an exclamation point from Margie Key and
her colleague doctor Greg Siegel, who is director for the
Cognitive Neuroscience Program at University of Pittsburgh. But they their
description of what we're talking about, like paying to go
(03:02):
to a haunted house or something or a really scary movie,
as voluntary engagement with negative high arousal stimuli. So in
other words, it's like, yeah, I'll give you my hard
earned dollars to go into nether world in October and
because the thrill of getting the doo doo scared out
of me is like I enjoy that experience.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Yes, So yeah, that's a great, great term for it.
I say, we take a little break, Chuck, and then
we come back and we go step by step how
this whole thing goes.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, let's do it, okay, Chuck.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So we're talking about fun scary, not fun anxiety. I
don't think there is such a thing really as fun anxiety.
I mean, I guess it's like an existential or elevated
horror movie like that develops a sense of dread. Yeah, okay,
but it so rarely pays off in a good way.
It's yeah, I don't know there's a good version of it.
(04:26):
So we're talking like scary the fun version, right. And
one of the main reasons why we do this, it
turns out, is because we feel a sense of mastery
over this thing that overwhelms us, because we're choosing to
do this. That's step one. We're choosing to experience this
scary thing. And by saying like I'm choosing to do this,
(04:48):
although of course you don't do this step by step,
it just kind of happens. You're saying like, I'm in control,
I'm in charge. Yeah, I'm going into the scary haunted house.
But it's on the premise that I'm not actually going
to be stabbed. This rating guy, he's just going to
come up like he's about to say me, but he's
not going to follow through. Some part of me knows.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
That, Yeah, I mean that's always in the back of
your head. When you walk into a situation like that,
you're like, I'm gonna be fine. It's not like the
thrill that you get when somebody jumps out of the
shadows to you know, with a gun to mug you.
Not what we're talking about. So that's the first step,
is you're like acknowledging that you're choosing to do this
(05:28):
head on, so you've got some mastery. And then then
the scare happens, whatever that might be, whether it's a
movie or you know, a haunted house. I'm trying to
this seems like the obvious ones. I'm trying to think
of other ways. I guess maybe a scary roller coaster
or something. If that's a big fear.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, So that's when the fight or flight kicks in
and you're just flooded with you know, some really eventually
feel good stuff that dopamine and oxytocin and endorphins start firing,
and our our heart rate increases obviously, and our breathing
and our blood pressure and everything. So that's it's like
an exhilarating experience like biologically for your body, right.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So, yes, like you're you're amped I guess is the
way to put it. You know.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah, what did the kids say these days today? Digg
any toilet, skivitty toilet. By the way, I like diggity toilet.
Let's start a new thing, right boy? That six seven
thing went away like quicker than I've ever seen anything
go away.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I was reading a book last yesterday. It was Crime
and Punishment. And I'm not just saying this just to
show everybody. I'm reading Crime and Punishment, But somebody mentioned
something being like sixes and sevens and I couldn't tell
from the context what they were talking about. Still, I
think it was kind of positive or something like that.
But I was like, is that where that came from originally?
(06:51):
Or is it just coincidence?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
That was coincidence because they coincidence because they know where
it came from, which I want for you to tell
you that.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Well, it was a basketball play being interviewed. But where
did he.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Get Yeah, oh, I think it just came out of
nowhere and it just caught on. But my whole point
was that thing went away like in a matter of weeks.
I think as soon as all the parents started doing it,
like every small child. Like I'm talking people my daughter's
age and younger were like, no, like I did it
one time. She was like, ah, no, one does that.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah. I feel like that's a valuable lesson. If we
are ever all annoyed by something that the younger to
get into it, I think we just start saying it
our stuff just adopted ourselves for a week.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, for sure, I love it. That's a good We
should test that out. But the next stupid thing comes along. Okay,
you got it all right? So where were we? Fight
or flight? Yes?
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, so we're in fight or flight mode. I feel
bad for the poor person who were describing because they've
been stuck in fireflight mode the whole time we were
talking about Yeah, toilet's true. But we're back, person, so
don't worry because now your body, your parasympathetic nervous system
kicks in. Is like, cool out, everybody. Let's just mellow out.
Nothing actually happened. The threat is gone, and you can
(08:03):
just feel great. You can feel relaxed, you can feel
maybe even a sense of giddiness. You know, yeah, because
you're experiencing something that you still it's a it's a
transition between still having your fight or flight response going
and the parasympathetic things starting to kick in and take over.
And while they're kind of those levels are adjusting, it's
a very specific, unique, fun kind of feeling.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, for sure. And you can see that step literally
coinciding with the next benefit rather, which is like you know,
you're almost always doing this with like friends and family
or something like you're out to have a good time
with a group maybe or a small group, so you're
building like a bond of an experience that will scary
that you share together. And like you see it when
(08:49):
people are exiting nether World or when they're coming off
of that roller coaster, this almost euphoria of the shared
experience that everyone has and you're all talking about it like,
oh my god, that one part, that one room where
the guy had the chainsaw and I saw like on
your face like you were about to dodo in your pants,
and it's like it's exhilarating. It's a it's like a
high that you can see everyone like reliving the experience
(09:12):
together in this bond that they created that's just like
super fun.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, it is that guys. I mean you mentioned oxytocin
being released. That would explain that bonding, you.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Know, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
And also sometimes you'll like press your face into the
chest of the whoever.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
You're with, hopefully the person that you're with, right, Sometimes
those places are dark.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
You don't want to you don't want to do that
to a perfect stranger.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
No, you're like, oh, you smell like onions. You're not
my friend.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
My friend smells like cheese, so.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, foot cheese.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Oh god.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
So there's that feeling of catharsis. There's another I think
great point too, in addition to that whole feeling of
catharsis that comes from going through that rigormarole, and that
is like you're in a that scare place that you
put yourself in on purpose, right, the voluntary engagement with
negative high arisal stimuli. It's a place where you are
(10:09):
it's socially acceptable to do something like scream your head off, yeah,
and just let out stress. And that's a huge function
that those play as well. That's scaring ourselves play as well,
especially say like a roller coaster.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, for sure, Like you know, there's primal scream therapy.
But a lot of people would say like, well that
seems pretty weird. But that same person might go to
a haunted house and scream their head off because it's
like a socially acceptable thing to do. And if you're
someone who is, maybe you have like real life anxiety,
or maybe you have work in a place or in
(10:42):
a situation in your life where you always have to
maintain like a very high level of decorum. Yeah, and
you know, go to another world. They should sponsor this thing,
by the.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Way, I think so too. That's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
We should re release this in October and see if
we can get another world on board. I don't go
to those. Did you go to those? No?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Too scary for me?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, I mean I haven't been to a real haunted
house like that. I don't think ever. I think the
last haunted house I went to was in la Like
these people got together and did these really really high
quality ones in the neighborhood a couple over. But I'd
never paid to go into like the truly horrifying ones.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I haven't either, But it's not because I'm too scared.
I was kidding about that.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Why is it, you know, walk around in the dark
with a bunch of strangers that might put their head
in your chest? I don't.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
There's one either, let's go to one this year.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Okay, there's one here if you're willing to come down
some Universal Horror Nights. I think it's supposed to be
really good.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Is you me into that kind of thing?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
No?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
No, she doesn't like Peters Emily. All right, they can
wait outside while we go through.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yes, that's fine. They'll have fun doing that.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
They'll drink lemonade out of those big giant novelty plastic linens.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I guess that's it for short stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Hun Yeah, I think that means we're out. Stuff you
should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.