February 26, 2026 • 49 mins
Back in 1973 a male chauvinist played tennis against champion Billie Jean King. This is that story.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck.
It's just two of us, and that's great because I'll
be playing the role of Billy Junie Kink and Chuck's
going to play the role of male show Bennis Pig
Bobby and produce. Oh man, take it, Chuck. Hey.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Before we get going on this one, I have a
quick shout out and this is coming out a couple
of days after I did this because we're cutting it
so close because of our week off last week. But
that makes me happy because I was asked a friend
of mine's son. His name is Royce. He is a student,
a junior at Midtown High School here in Atlanta, and
(00:47):
he has a teacher, Miss Smolcoe, who is a long
time Stuff you Should Know listener. And when Royce told
Miss smokeol like, Hey, I know that guy. We're buddies.
We got hogs games together, kind of flipped out and
was like, oh my god, I wonder if, like, would
he be interested in helping us out with our podcast program?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Oh cool?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
And they set it up via email and I spent
yesterday which was in our World Monday at Midtown High
School addressing the junior class about two hundred kids, and
I gotta say, man, it was an incredible experience. The
students were into it. They were engaged, they had great questions,
(01:31):
they had great answers, they were you know, a lot
of it was sharing, you know, what they're doing with
this podcast project, which is based off of like stuff
you should know style stuff, which was super cool, like
these real philosophical questions that they're digging into and taking
opposite sides and debating, and they were seeking advice and
it was just it was an incredible experience. And I
(01:52):
just I left like on a real high about gen
Z and like where our future is headed. And it
was just awesome.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Great. So the broad strokes are gen Z got Chuck
high yesterday.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, yeah, they got me super high. It was really cool.
They were all just amazing kids, and miss Smolco is wonderful.
And the other teacher, I think his name was Alex,
I can't remember his last name, but he was super nice.
And they're just like, hats off to these teachers. What's
going on in the at least at Midtown High School
(02:27):
is amazing, And I just left feeling great. That was awesome.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I think Royce is getting in a.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
You know, Royce wasn't even there. He's does like a
late arrival thing because of like work study or something,
and so I was like, dude. I text him, was
like where were you? And he explained the whole deal
like that he's not even allowed in school till later.
So it was just one of those things. But everyone
was super nice and it was just it was was
so cool to see how into it everybody was.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Well way you go, Chuck, Oh, and real quick, there
were a couple of students I won't name them. I
have permission to name Royce because he's a pal, but
there were two legitimate, big time stuff you should know
listeners in the junior class that came up after and
said hello, and they were both like really really.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Nice, awesome shout out Thing one and thing two.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
That's right, way to.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Go, Chuck. You were basically a teacher for that moment.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I kind of felt that way. Maybe one day when
I retire, I'll just like go and teach for real.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I'll let you borrow my tweet jacket with the swedelboat watches.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
That don't be dumb jacket. Wow, that's a big deal.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
You have to overlook all the stains on it, all. Right,
So we are talking about the Battle of the sexes today,
which I guess. I mean, this is a tough act
to follow after your story.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Frankly, No, this is a great fun sort of pop
culture history story and sports story. There was a movie
about it just a handful of years ago, starring Steve
Carell as Bobby Riggs and Emma Stone as Bill King,
where they portrayed the very famous tennis match between a
(04:05):
male chauveness pig and aging over the hill hustler tennis
star that you know, basically came out and said, you
know what, men are better at women than everything, and
an old me can beat a young champion and Billy
Jean King, and let's do it on national TV at
the Houston Astrodome in front of a ton of people.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, and that's what happened the end, that's right. So
this was a really big deal. I mean it sounds
like just kind of light hearted, maybe a bit of
a joke. This actually still happens today, their battle of
the sexist tennis matches. Yeah, this was the first one
and it was a very big deal for everyone involved.
(04:51):
On the one hand, you have Bobby Riggs, like you said,
over the hill. He was fifty five and he was
trying to right, he was trying to fi two weeks
he was, Oh, that's right, the IDEs of March are
coming up.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Oh boy, yeah, so over the hill, I get it, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yes, although fifty five in nineteen seventy three was a
lot different than fifty five now right.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah, yeah, I don't look like Bobby Riggs.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
But he was over the hill, not just necessarily because
of his age. He just been so far out of
tennis for so long. He was an attention hound and
he wanted to get back in the spotlight. So for
him this was a gambit. It was a lot of
work to do it, but it was something he was
trying to do. On the other side was Billy Jing King,
who he took this very seriously because to her this
(05:35):
was symbolic of women's rights, which she was a tireless
fighter for, not just before this but after for essentially
your whole life still today.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, she's great. Love Billy Jing King.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
She's a hero.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Bobby Riggs. We'll talk about him in depth We're not
going to make excuses for the guy. But I will
say Billy Jinking remained very good friends with him and
never came out and said like you know, I mean,
when they were going at it, she was kind of
playing him up as a male Chownes pig, which he was,
but she would end up saying like Bobby Riggs was
(06:12):
a man of his time and sort of a victim
of being a man of his time, so she kind
of went easy on him. I'm not sure I'm going
to go so easy on him.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Well, I saw, I saw in places that there's it's
questionable whether he actually like even believed most of the
stuff he was saying that all again, all this was
a gambit. He figured out a really good way to yeah,
get media attention was to just be like the most
loudmouthed Chauvenes's pig, just saying the most offensive stuff and
becoming loathsome to women. That this would this would just
(06:43):
generate more buzz and more hype for what he was
trying to do, which I mean, just doing that is
a jerk move, but it's it's it's not set in
stone that he was someone who actually harbored these feelings personally,
So you got to bear that in mind while we're
telling this, because a lot of people realized that, like
(07:04):
anti feminists, a lot of men don't realize it, and
a lot of feminists don't realize it. They took it
everything he was doing very seriously, but like you said,
Billy Jing King didn't, which is a huge signal right there.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah, and I just hit this just hit my brain.
If I'm going to go hard on Bobby Rigs, then
I also need to do the same to Andy Kaufman
and his whole wrestling stick, which I think is one
of the great funny kind of comedy bits. But it
was kind of the same thing, like playing a role
to get women riled up to get attention.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Well, really, if we learned anything from this battle of
the sexist tennis matches, if you're gonna go hard on
Bobby Riggs, you need to go hard on Billy Jing King.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Right. Should we go back to the early seventies and
set the stage, Yes, all right. Early nineteen seventies was
it was a pretty volatile time. It was a big
time for women to are kind of standing up for
real and saying like, hey, we want attention. We want rights.
We want the same rights as men.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Roe v.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Wade was decided in seventy three. The Equal Rights Amendment
was all over the news, and the case of sports,
certainly nineteen seventy two with Title nine of the Education
Amendments Act that required schools to offer girls and women
the opportunities to basically get equal funding and participate equally
in athletics as boys and men. So it was a
(08:33):
It was a big time for women's advocacy and feminism
and women's rights between like nineteen and you know, certainly
before that, but definitely between nineteen seventy and like nineteen
seventy five.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, just as an aside, we did, if I may
say so, a pretty good episode on the Equal Rights
Amendment in twenty twenty one called why is the Era
still not ratified?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah, which is true.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah. So, yeah, it was a big time. There was
a lot of momentum for women's lib feminism. It was
also a big time for tennis, which was becoming really,
really popular, especially in the United States. The number of
Americans who played tennis tripled from nineteen seventy to nineteen
seventy four. And one of the reasons why is because
(09:17):
the tennis world started holding opens. I never knew this before,
but the US opened the Australian Open. The reason they're
called opens because they're open to all players. You can
be an amateur, you can be a pro, and you
can compete in this These tournaments an open tournament that
was brand new. I think Wimbledon was the first one
to start it, I think in nineteen sixty eight. So
(09:40):
a lot of really freaky, exciting stuff's going on in the.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
World, that's right. Billy Jean King was and we should
also point out that, you know, as far as wage disparity,
in nineteen sixty eight, if you were a professional tennis player,
you earned two to three times as much as a woman.
And when the sport grew, that gap actually grew, it
didn't get more narrow, which was pretty startling at the time.
(10:06):
But Billy Jean King was born in nineteen forty three,
and by the time this event rolled around, she was huge.
She had won ten Grand Slam titles by seventy three.
She was a number one ranked tennis player six different
times in nineteen seventy or by nineteen seventy three was
the nineteen seventy two Sports Illustrated Sportsperson of the Year,
(10:28):
and like you said, was a real feminist activist kind
of from the jump. I think there was a story
from when she was a kid, when she was eleven
or twelve, a junior player, she was not allowed to
be in a photo like a tournament photo because she
wasn't wearing the tennis skirt. She was wearing shorts, and
they said, you can't be in this picture. And immediately
little twelve year old Billy Jean King was like, what
the hell.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, she was like, these are sports. They said, that doesn't.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Count, right, that's not a thing yet.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
So yeah. And one thing about Billy Jean King from
a bunch of stuff I read and saw about hers,
that like she's she was tireless and still it. She's
a tireless activist for women's rights, like she did ever
slow down. And when you kind of learn about all
the side stuff she did to promote women in tennis
and women's rights in general, Like on top of that,
(11:18):
bear in mind she's one of the top tennis players
in the world by dominating in tennis, so that takes
a lot of practice, a lot of dedication, and she's
doing all this other stuff at the same time. So
she's like basically the definition of tireless.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yeah, and she was doing this in the nineteen sixties
because all those accomplishments I mentioned was by seventy three.
But in nineteen sixty six she was the number one
women's tennis player in the world and she was making
one hundred dollars a week as a playground instructor at
Los Angeles State College. So the money the athletes were
making was not anything like it is today, and it
(11:57):
was way, way worse for women. I think first Open
you mentioned at Wimbledon in sixty eight, she won that
tournament and won seven hundred and fifty pounds. Rod Labor,
the men's champion, won two thousand pounds, and she was
like in sixty eight, she was like, this is totally unfair.
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, and money comes up a lot. It was. The
reason why is it's an easy shorthand to basically point
out women's lesser treatment compared to men. It's also something
that most people can just kind of wrap their minds around, like, yeah,
seven hundred and fifty pounds is a lot less than
two thousand pounds, but they're both the champions. That doesn't
make any sense. So money is a big focus throughout this,
(12:38):
but it's not just because everybody wants money, you know.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yeah, totally. So in nineteen seventy, Billy Jean King was like,
we need to do something sort of official and sort
of big here. So she looked to a woman named
Gladys Heldman, who was the founder of World Tennis magazine.
She was a very big prominent figure. You're in the
tennis world overall, obviously because of World Tennis, and also
(13:04):
because she was at the time the mother of a
very high ranked player named Julie Heldman. That was her daughter.
So she was a good person to go to. And
they said, here's what we can do to make a splash.
There's a tennis tournament coming up called the Pacific Southwest
Open in LA where they're paying The prize purse for
the men's champion is twelve five hundred, the purse for
(13:25):
the women's champion is fifteen hundred dollars, which I mean,
looking back at the Wimbledon disparity, that wasn't too bad
compared to this. Yeah, and this was even after that,
and they said, why don't we boycott this tournament? And
Gladys Heldman said, you know what, why don't we start
our own tournament that competes with this tournament, And everyone
(13:46):
went ooh, this sounds exciting.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah, so yeah, that was a huge step beyond what
they were originally thinking of. And so the US Tennis
Association at the time they were called the US Lawn
Tennis Association also to They were like, hey, go ahead
and try that, but we are going to suspend you.
We might ban you from tournament tournament play, We're going
(14:09):
to erase your rankings, like it's going to be a
bad jam if you guys go off and form your
own tournament. And that it took a lot of bravery
because not all women tennis players signed on for this.
In fact, only nine, including Billy Jeane King, said you
know what, we're going to go do this anyway, and
so they signed contracts with Heldman, and so they became
(14:31):
pros on this other tour, which protected them from getting
punished on the USLTA tour, and they started their own championship,
which eventually was I think supported and sponsored by Virginia
Slims Cigarettes.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yeah, that's right, and we should mention that contract was
for a dollar each so they they clearly were doing
this to make a statement and not to make a
ton of money, right, But Philip Morris, Yeah, they stepped
in because they there was a recent federal ban on
advertising on TV and radio for cigarettes, and so they said,
we got to get our name out there somewhere. So
let's call this the you know, we've got these Virginia
(15:08):
Slims with its quasi feminist message. You've come a long way, baby.
That was our ad slogan for a long.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Time, long time.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
And tennis, you know, the Original Nine is what they
were called, those tennis players that went along or the
eight that went along with Billy jen King and said
they're like, yeah, I mean, we're athletes. It's a little
weird to have a cigarette sponsor, but we need a sponsor,
so we'll take it. And that tournament went over really well,
and it was so successful that they said, hey, why
don't we start our own circuit, and they had the
(15:36):
Virginia Slim Circuit. There were eight more tournaments that they
sponsored and the original nine. You know, they initially did
follow through with their threat to like ban them. The USLTA, Yeah,
the USLTA at the time, but they said, oh, actually
they're doing so well over there, We're in trouble now,
(15:56):
so we need to join forces. And they gave up
and they merged with the Virginia Slim Events.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, and I'm not usually one to defend tobacco producers,
but I saw a PBS I think American Master's clip
that was interviewing some of the original nine and they
were like, Virginia Slims showed up, like they knew how
to market, they knew how to get buzz. They put
a ton of money behind advertising and like they this
(16:26):
was not like a just a whatever thing to them.
They were actually a really great sponsor for this. So yeah,
they yes, these nine women, and I think eventually more joined.
They were like, if you won't include us, we're just
gonna go create our own thing. Like they worked at
it like that and it actually paid off in aces.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Yeah for sure. Hey you want to take.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
A break, Hey, yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
All right, we'll be back right after this. All right,
(17:21):
So where we left off, the original nine went off
and formed their own Virginia Slim circuit. They were, you know,
endangered the USLTA such that they partnered with them eventually,
but money started flowing in a little bit. Nineteen seventy one,
Billy Jean King was the first female athlete of any
sport at all to make more than one hundred thousand dollars,
(17:43):
a lot of money, and nineteen seventy one dollars still
a lot less than her peers on the male side
of the equation. And so she was still, you know,
banging that drum. She wasn't like, all right, our work
is done. And in nineteen seventy three, before Wimbledon that year,
she got together in London where Wimledon is in a
hotel room with sixty three I guess it was probably
(18:04):
a large meeting room, Yeah, sixty three other women tennis players,
and they said, all right, we're doing this today. We're
going to form the WTA, the Women's Tennis Association. We're
gonna have an actual union in place where we can,
you know, do what unions do and stick up for ourselves.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yes, they threatened to boycott, like pretty much immediately after
they formed the WTA. They said that they were going
to boycott the US Open if we don't get equal
prize money for women and men. And I believe that
was successful. They got the US Open to agree and
it was this is like things are moving along for
(18:44):
women's equality in tennis at this time. Right, So it's
a huge focus of conversation with tennis.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Yeah, I mean it was all over the media everywhere
you looked. It was about sort of equal pay, equal rights.
And that was in the regular world, and all of
a sudden it was now like in the sports world
in a big way.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Well, put.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
So now we can talk a little bit about our
our I'm gonna put it in scare quotes, our villain,
mister Bobby Riggs, who was I'll tell you what man
I mean, if you it is very Andy kaufmanesque. If
you watch interviews with this guy. If he's nothing, he
is entertaining.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
For sure. He was a true great tennis player at
one time, shortly after World War Two. I think he
was the number one men's player in nineteen forty six
and nineteen forty seven, and not just from like December
to January like both of those years.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah, So he had, you know, the goods to back
up like this. It wasn't just some dude who had
a tennis racket. But after the late forties, he essentially
like left the tour and he started hustling and taking
bets from essentially anybody who who would play him in
(20:01):
tennis pool. I think you saw a sixty minutes clip
where he was gambling on throwing cards into a waste basket,
like he would bet on anything. There was a quote
on that sixty minutes clip where he said he likes
to play for big money. If he can't play for
big money, he'll play for small money. If I can't
(20:23):
play for small money, I won't get out of bed
that day. Like that's just what that guy did. He gambled,
he hustled. Andy was known as a loud mouth too,
but he also seems to be fairly loved. Essentially, he
was like one of those people that you just kind
of you couldn't help, but like even though yeah he
was allowed mouth and trying to get you to bet
some money.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yeah, he was a troll. Livia called him a pre
internet troll, and that's exactly what he was. It seemed
like a bit of an act and a bit of
a stick to get attention. Like we said, but he
would say things, you know, a woman's place is in
the kitchen, in the bedroom, and not necessarily in that order.
Or women played twenty five percent as good as men,
so they should get twenty five percent of the money
(21:05):
men get. I was reading I think it was a
oh was it Esquire or something, an article about him,
and the whole idea of playing Billy Jean King was
birth when I think a reporter was just talking to
him about you know, can men beat women? Or who
could beat Billy Jean King and tennis and he said,
(21:26):
I think any guy in the top one hundred could
beat Billy Jean King. And he went, in fact, I
think I could beat her. And that's sort of when
he seemed to hatch this idea for publicity and money.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, he was like, oh, but there's good.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Action there, Yeah, totally he so.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yes, so like he said these things. Actually at least
one of those quotes is from one of his autobiographies. Yeah, so,
like he wrote the stuff down. This wasn't just stuff
he started saying. When he decided to play Billy Jean King.
He was already known as a male chauvinist. But yes,
he was an attention hound and this was again a
way that he figured out how to do this. So
(22:03):
he started publicly challenging Billy Jane King. He's like in
his mid fifties. She's in her late twenties prime, and
she's like, now that's okay, I'm too busy. And again,
remember like she was genuinely tireless organizing the Virginia Slim
Circuit and like creating the Women's Tennis Association, all the
while winning all of these championships in Grand slams. So
(22:26):
she had a legitimate excuse like I'm too busy. The
thing is, there was also like a case you could
make that she saw very clearly like I don't know
if I have that much to gain by playing this,
and I have a lot to lose for the women's movement.
I could easily set it back if I lose. So
there was she had good reason to kind of avoid
(22:47):
this as long as she could.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yeah, it's sort of a lose lose proposition for her.
If she beats him, everyone's like, well, of course she
beat this old man, right, and that's how he probably
would have played it up as well. We'll see what happened.
But and if she loses that, of course, like looks
terrible to be beaten by the old man. So she
was wise to avoid it, I think. But there was
another woman In fact, she was the I think she
(23:12):
was the number one player in the world women's player
in nineteen seventy three named Margaret Court and Ozzy and
she was like she wasn't super active in the politics
of women's sports, and she was like, yeah, sure, I'll
play him. She stepped right up and in May of
nineteen seventy three, this was in San Diego or outside
San Diego. They played a three set match where ten
(23:33):
thousand dollars and about ten million people a lot of
put people tuned into the first one on CBS. Thirty
five hundred people were there live and he beat her.
He beat her six two six' one by PLAYING i
want to say a certain, thing BUT i. Can't he
was playing like a. Punk oh, Yeah he's playing junk
shots and like drop, shots and he wasn't playing like
(23:56):
sort of real. Tennis he was playing sort of joke.
Tennis and when you're playing against a player that can hit,
aggressive strong shots and you're just plunking him over the,
net like it's gonna you can't play tennis that way
if you're a real, player and it threw her off her.
Game she got in his. HEAD i think the moment
was a little too big for. HER i don't think
she realized how much attention there was going to, be
(24:16):
and she ended up getting beat pretty.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Badly, yeah he got in her, head, Right. Yeah so,
yes it's called The Mother's day massacre because it was
held On Mother's, day AND i mean it was really.
Bad but there's a point THAT i want you to
hang on to for. Later as much of a punk
as he, played he didn't play actual serious. Tennis he's
playing joky tennis to. Win he took that match very.
(24:40):
Seriously he trained for months ahead of. Time he was
playing or training like ten to twelve hours a day every.
Day he really, trained and by the time he was
by the time the game came, around he knew he
was going to Beat Margaret. Court so just keep that
in mind how hard he trained for.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
That. Okay, Yeah and also we should point out like
at the very beginning of that, match to open it,
up he presented her with a bouquet of roses and
she curtsied back to, him And Billy Jin king is
watching this just like you, know furious, inside like she's, like,
oh he's, Playing and she in fact said later that
she played right into his. Hands there AND i would
(25:18):
have grabbed him and kissed. Him if he gets, DIRTY
i can get tough. Too so she hated the fact
That Margaret court went out there and sort of curtsied
to him and took the roses and then lost on NATIONAL,
TV i guess INTERNATIONAL. Tv and so she was, like all,
right you know What i'm gonna do. It i'm gonna
step up And i'm gonna Play Bobby. Riggs it's my.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Turn, yeah so she agreed to do this and it
became immediately, BUZZWORTHY i guess is what you would call
it if you're into that kind of.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Thing that's. Right the liver versus the lobber is how
they dubbed.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
It, Yeah, so LIKE i, said it's immediately generating. Buzz
Bobby riggs starts giving television interviews to any camera that
will stand still long, enough and he's a magnet for
that kind of stuff because again he's a loud. Mouth
he's saying horrible things about. Women he's accepting like the
male chauvinus pig, moniker like With pride or. Whatever, yeah
(26:14):
and he's just like one of, those like he would
talk a mile a. Minute he had so much, energy
he was just a little a little kind of squirrely,
guy kind.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Of, like, Yeah Richard.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Simmons did you ever See Richard simmons when he would
go On? Letterman oh, yeah, Okay so it's great the
way That letterman kind of Regarded Richard simmons, affectionately but
also like this guy's he's moving around a. Lot. Yeah
he was like, that but amped up on like speed.
Essentially so he was a magnet for cameras and he
was giving interviews all over the.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Place, yeah and he was also you, know he's adding
hype for the event obviously by saying things, like you,
know she's a, woman they don't have the emotional, stability she'll.
Choke he added more. Stakes he said that he would
jump from The London bridge And arizona or The Pasadena
bridge if he. Lost and you, know he was all
over the. Place he was on the cover Of time
(27:06):
magazine that year In. September it was a caricature of
him wearing a male chaubeness badge and then there was
a picture of a pig and a banner that said
The Happy. Hustler so it was all working exactly as he.
Planned But Billy Jean, king like if he took that
first match. Seriously he didn't take this one as, seriously
(27:26):
And billy Jen king was really taking it.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Seriously, Yeah i'm not sure if he was just you,
know resting on his laurels because of how badly he
Beat Margaret court that he just assumed that that was
going to translate into Playing Billy Jean. King but he
did not train nearly as much as he did For
billy For Margaret. Court, essentially he was out partying in
the lead up to all of. This he was also
(27:50):
really really getting more and more offensive as things went.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
On, Right, oh you're gonna leave this one for.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Me.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah one of the things he did was he showed
up to practice one day with the cameras there with
holes cut out in his shirt so his nipples could,
show and he said That Billy Jean king would look
better in. This and she came out in public and
she was, like this guy is a, creep which, was you,
know about as tough as you could be in language back. Then,
(28:20):
Yeah and he was publicly.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
And it was at a press conference with them, together
and he, said, well you should take that back and she, said,
nope creep Stands and she said LATER i saw in
an interview she said, that, like she didn't take him,
seriously but she knew that there were men out there
that took him seriously and that he had crossed the,
line and she needed to make sure that that was.
(28:41):
Demonstrated that she was not okay with that.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
One, YEAH i think she kind of played it all just.
Right it was really pretty savvy stuff on ther, end for.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Sure SO i, say we take is this our second? Break?
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yeah second?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Break all, Right so the gun is going to go
off when we come, back.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Stop.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
OFF i wonder how many people are, like what is
he talking about when he keeps saying the gun is
going to go? Off Whenever act three comes, Around, WELL
i would, say study your checkof, friend.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
That's, right and not your checkoff. Friend your checkoff come a, friend.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Right not the friend that you're, LIKE i gotta hang
out with him and then you do you real. Quick
you check him off your to do. List not that.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Guy, yeah we all have checkof.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Friends, Yeah i'm Sure i'm a lot of people's check Off.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
No, no, no, no. No all, Right so where are
we are we? At match? Time, basically which was turned
into a complete circus by the, Way.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yes this Is september, twentieth nineteen seventy. Three is that
The Houston. Astrodome, man thirty thousand people showed up in
person to see. THIS i saw all over the, place Including,
britannica that ninety million people watched it around the. World that's.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
YEAH i Think olivia had fifty million. People BUT i
watched an interview with her WITH i mean serious journalist it.
Was it Was Kathy lee And hoda and they said ninety,
million and they were just drunk on white wine at
nine in the morning or, Whatever SO i trust.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Them, man that was a weird, time wasn't it?
Speaker 3 (30:33):
That it was a very weird. TIME i did want
to point out THAT i looked. UP i was, like,
well how many people see a tennis tournament at like
The Grandes stage And Center court At wimbledon is about
fifteen thousand, People so this was double.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
That. Wow. Yeah plus it was in the beautiful New,
astrodome so.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Oh, yeah so.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Great so the odds were very much in favor On Bobby.
Riggs the odds were six to one That riggs would.
Win and this was like the whole thing was kind
of presented in the media as like The battle of
the sexiest, thing the man versus, woman and every juvenile
(31:13):
joke or you, know quip or whatever you could make
out of. That that is how the whole thing was being.
Promoted that's how it was being played up in the.
Media it was not like this is a very serious
thing that they set women's women's rights back or move them.
Forward then of that was was in. There it was
all just this almost tongue in cheek approach to. It
(31:35):
and that's how the whole, thing if you were a,
viewer that's what you were kind of.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Shown, yeah for, Sure and that's a good thing to point.
Out there Was hollywood was. Involved there were a lot
of actors and singers and stuff that were in a
celebrity tournament. Beforehand they were really milking. It they when
they came in The university Of houston band performed the Song,
conquest which is an a them from the nineteen forty
(32:01):
seven Movie captain From. Castile that's When Bobby riggs came.
In they Played Helen REDDY'S I Am. Woman When Billy
Jean king came, In lyvia pointed out That John, Wayne
Bill cosby AND Oj simpson were in, attendance AND i
had probably thirteen different comments or jokes written out for,
that But i'm just going to let that trio stand
(32:24):
without comment.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Dans on its.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Own, YEAH i think.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
So SO abc made a fat one point two million
dollars off of ads for this. Match, Yeah astrodome got
about half that and people paying admission. Price. Yeah and
the so with The Margaret Court Mother's Day massacre game
that was played under women's, rules in that there were three.
(32:49):
Sets that's how women's tennis matches are played three. Sets
men's tennis matches are played five. Sets Billy Jean king was, like,
no we're going to play five sets best of five,
essentially so there were, five which was. Smart, yeah, yeah for.
Sure She. Yes another thing that you'll see that's happened
recently is sometimes so a woman's court might be smaller
(33:12):
than the man's, court which makes it harder for the
man to land a ball in.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Bounds like in A battle of the sexist.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Match, yes thank, you there was nothing like. That this
was like a men's match That Billy Jean king was playing.
Against Bobby.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Riggs oh, yeah well she was, LIKE i got this
fifty five year old, guy like he wants the three
set match so we're going to go five Because i'm
in great, shape. Right Bobby riggs enters on a carriage
pulled by women that are outfitted As bobby's bosom. Buddies
how Did Billy Jing king come?
Speaker 2 (33:44):
In she came in on basically a platform carried by
men in TOGAS i also saw As, egyptians Like egyptian.
Servants they were shirtless, essentially and they were brawny. Dudes
so like mostly not her, idea but she was going
along with, it, right, yeah she. Was, Yeah well you
were saying that she was taking it, seriously and she,
(34:05):
was but she was also like willing to play along
with this, Too like she wasn't just some like stick
in the, mud you.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Know, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
So just very. Appropriately Bobby riggs was sponsored by Sugar daddy, candy,
right and he Presented Billy Jean king with a two
foot long Sugar. Daddy remember Those they would just pull
the fillings right out of your head, Totally and So
king was, like, OH i have a gift for you.
Too it was a piglet that she Named Bobby riggs
(34:35):
because he was a Male chauvenu's pig and don't worry
about the. Pig she coordinated with the Promoter Jerry, perenchio
very legendary, promoter that the pig would not be eaten or,
harmed it would go to live on a farm, afterward
and it.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Did that says everything you need to know About Billy Jean. Kings, yeah,
yeah she thought of everything she.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Did she she crossed her t's and. Died oinks that's.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Right so of course it's nineteen seventy, three so you
want to get the best in the business at the
time to do the play by, Play so they got
none other Than Howard. Cosell, initially they had a tennis
promoter and anti feminist Named Jack kramer who was going
to Do they're going to do sort of a he
Versus she, commentary and he was going to be on,
rigside and one of the original Nine Rosie cassol's was
(35:24):
going to be On billy Jan king. Side But, kramer
and this also speaks To Billy Jing, king he was
one of the guys behind that original tournament that they
protested and wouldn't play in The Pacific Southwest open where they,
said oh, yeah well we're going to ban you. Then
so she was, like, hey this is all fun and
(35:44):
games and, everything but if that jerk is, Involved i'm
not even going to do. This so they Pulled kramer
off the off the.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Broadcast, yeah and they didn't Have Rosie kassall speak To
And i'm really glad they didn't do. That THAT'S i,
mean it's a gimmick and it's, understandable but it would
have made the whole thing. Suck they brought In Gene,
scott who was the publisher Of Tennis, week and he
just gave commentary like it was a regular tennis, match
which is kind of what he wanted in this. One. Agreed,
(36:13):
SO i, mean Imagine Dennis miller And Dennis miller calling
a tennis. Match you don't want? That, yeah, WELL i
mean think about. It whose idea was it to put
him On monday night? Football on the one, hand it's.
Brilliant on the other it's like, What, yeah that was.
Weird but it was it lasted for years, Too it's
not like it was a couple of.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Games, yeah, no HE i think it was a full,
season wasn't.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
IT i think it was more than, that that was?
Speaker 3 (36:39):
It, Yea, yeah that was.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Weird, Yeah so the game is on essentially that's that's
the point we've reached. Here that's.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Right So Bobby riggs takes a three two lead in
the first, set and later On Billy Jean king would, say,
LIKE i was in. TROUBLE i KNEW i was making some.
MISTAKES i was in my head a little, bit AND
i knew THAT i could not give this first set. Away,
basically like he needed to get that set for his psychological,
(37:06):
standing and so that first set was so so important for,
her so she knew that she had to win. It
she was down three to, two and she came back
and beat him and won that first set six to,
four which was a huge blow to his.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Psyche, yeah she said that she could tell that that
had gotten to him when they switched. Sides so she
also changed her playing. Style, normally she would be like
she'd want to win the point as quickly and efficiently as. Possible,
instead she started drawing volleys out and basically put the
ball in one corner and then put the ball in
(37:40):
the other. Corner so she had this old man running
back and forth chasing down these balls to purposefully tire them.
OUT i, mean that's just so cool that people are
capable of doing. That you, know, LIKE i want the
ball to go ry, here So i'm going to go
right there with this, racket even though the ball's coming
at me at seventy miles an.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Hour, yeah for. Sure so she wore him. Out by the,
end he was talking about hand. Cramps the levity had
kind of lessened, because like you, said this fifty five
year old was an old old, man.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Right so remember we were so, old, right not fifty
four fifty?
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Five, Okay, OKAY i got a couple more.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Weeks So Billy Jing king, won and she won like,
convincingly sixty four sixty, three sixty, three so remember best
out of. Five she beat him in three straight. Sets,
yeah and she got her one hundred thousand check from
no less Than George, foreman WHO i read had hoped
to Use Bobby riggs the pig to demonstrate his new
(38:41):
type of indoor, grill but was disappointed that he wasn't allowed.
To oh, No and so this was it was just
an immediate. Splash remember this is a media. Spectacle everybody
knows about. This ninety million people are, watching so the
media just got right in on it again to let everybody.
Know Billy Jean king won and let's celebrate her as
(39:02):
a pro tennis. Player and that's.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
It that's. RIGHT i think we Know josh's coy voice by.
Now that's not at all how it was. Reported of,
course they kept reporting it sort of in the lowest
common denominator. Way THE ap said that, screaming delirious women's
livers lit up more brightly than the rocket shooting astrodome.
Scoreboard even my Beloved New York times Said king, collapsed
(39:26):
tears in her eyes and her husband's, arms adding, later
all of a, sudden she was a, champion a, woman
and a little girl all at the same.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Time that one brings like my eyes water from that.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
One, yeah that's.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Tough that's so much worse than the astrodome, scoreboard, RIGHT i,
mean neither one are. Great, yeah that one is just
like they meant. That they were trying to like really
be poignant, there and it's just, like good, God.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Yeah they missed the.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Mark the thing About Bobby riggs is he wasn't, like,
well you, know she obviously is some freak woman who
who beat. Me that's the only woman who could. Be
he did the. Opposite he accepted the defeat with dignity And. Grace,
yeah he saw that.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Coming he had a.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Thing where he hopped over the net win or lose
after the end of every, match and he. Did he
hopped right over the net and went up to her
and he said confidentially to her that he underestimated. Her,
Yeah and then in the press conference he went on
to basically say the same, thing like she beat him very.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Clearly, yeah he said she was too strong for. Me
there have since been rumors that he threw the match
as a gambler with six to one odds, against that
he threw the match and bet against. Himself there was
a report IN i think twenty THIRTEEN espn dug into
that and that there were like mafia figures he was
working with to rig the. Odds we'll never know the,
(40:50):
Truth But Bobby riggs said he didn't throw. It Billy
Jean king said THAT i don't think he threw. It
like she could tell what was going on emotionally on
that court and could tell that he wanted to win
and that he was. Losing you, know he might have
prepared like he should. Have AND i guess we'll never
know the. Truth but my money's on she beat.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Him, yeah my Two but there's that rumor does have,
legs like he did hang out with mob, guys he
was a huge. Gambler the idea was that he was
indebted to the, mob like one hundred grand for in
gambling debts and they would wipe it clean if he threw,
this and that he was also betting on, himself and
(41:32):
his son, said it's. POSSIBLE i don't really think that's,
true but it's, possible although his best friend is, LIKE
i won't even entertain that that's, Possible like he just
didn't do. That, yeah but one of the things that
people point to is he was making some terrible mistakes
during the, Game so either she got in his head
and he was rattled or he was throwing. It it
(41:53):
just seems like the general consensus is that now he
it seems pretty fringe that to genuinely leave that he
threw the.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Match, YEAH i. Agree WHICH i saw bits of that.
MOVIE i never saw the whole. Thing the casting was,
incredible Like Steve carell And Emma stone were kind of.
PERFECT i don't think the movie was reviewed like super,
favorably but it looked. Okay it's supposedly very true to. Life, actually, yeah,
(42:21):
Yeah Billy Jen. King at least you Told hoda And
Kathy lee that it was pretty true to. Life she said.
That she said they got the essence of. It she,
said it's a, movie of, course but they nailed the.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Essence, man have you Seen? Bogogonia oh, boy, yeah that
is one of my new favorite. Movies that is so.
GOOD i did not LIKE i can never remember his,
name what is?
Speaker 3 (42:39):
It i'm glad you watched. That Oh Jesse.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Plemons, no, no, no the?
Speaker 3 (42:42):
Director oh oh oh? Uh Yugust. Lanthemos thank.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
You wouldn't That let me try saying it, Too Yorgus.
LANTHEMOS i don't Think i've ever tried it Because i've
always been, Like i'm gonna screw this.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Up WELL i might have screwed it, up but that's
WHAT i don't.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Think SO i think you got it. ANYWAY i did
not Like Poor, things AND i was, like, OH i don't,
know BECAUSE i liked everything leading up to, that but not.
This and THEN i saw. This i'm, like he's.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Back, yeah it's a. GREAT i told. YOU i texted
you to see kinds Of kindness. Too have you seen that?
Speaker 2 (43:11):
ONE i still have not. Know i've been watching just
tons of riff.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Tracks, yeah it's hard to get out of the cycle
what you get in? Sure all, Right so back to
this after the back to The battle of The. Sexes after,
this he wanted to kind of keep the media spotlight on,
him so he tried to jump off The London bridge In,
arizona but the sheriff there so, like he can't do,
(43:34):
That so he had his picture taken on the, lake
blow it and a. Raft Billy Jean king went on
to just keep Being Billy Jean. King in nineteen seventy,
four she founded The Women's Sports, foundation which is a
nonprofit for women's and girls and. Athletics and she would
end up sort of very publicly coming out of the
(43:56):
closet after being married for a long time to a,
guy not The Larry, king but Her Larry king in
nineteen eighty, one her longtime manager and, Assistant Marilyn. Barnett
it was very sad what. Happened she filed a lawsuit
against her which revealed their affair that they had from
seventy two to seventy nine because she had fallen from
(44:16):
a balcony Of Billy Jing's Billy Jing king's house In
malibu and lost the use of her legs and said, that,
Hey Billy Jing king promised to give me that house
and support me. Financially so she took her to court
and it got really.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Messy, YEAH i. Saw so the fall from the house In,
MALIBU i saw was an attempted, suicide and that she
Had Marilyn barnett had Blackmailed Larry king And Billy Jing
king before the, lawsuit basically said, hey if you don't
want this to come, out let's settle BEFORE i actually
go public with. It they. Didn't she went public with,
(44:49):
it and, then to her great, credit after being outed
in nineteen eighty what eighty one eighty, One Billy Jing kink,
said you know, what we'd never promised The malibu, house but,
Yes i'm. Gay larry AND i have an open marriage
and we're actually going to stay together for the time.
Being and they stayed together until nineteen eighty, seven and
(45:12):
they divorced Because Billy Jean king fell For Elana, kloss
a fellow tennis, player and they ended up getting married
in twenty. Eighteen so this is. Enormous she was. Outed
she hadn't outed. Herself her choice to do so was,
removed but she stood behind. It she didn't deny, it
she didn't deny who she. Was she, said, Yep i'm. Gay.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
Yeah it was pretty. Great as far as equality and
pay and pro, sports that's obviously still a. Thing it
was two thousand and seven when all The Grand slams
agreed to pay women equally in, tennis and they still
don't and some of the other big, EVENTS i think
just a couple of years, ago the twenty twenty Four Canadian,
open it was a five point nine million dollar pool
(45:57):
for the men in two point million dollar pool for.
Women and if you, know if you come back with
an argument of, like, yeah well the you, know the
men's events are they get more viewers and more advertising
because they're in those better time, slots then you kind
of just said it. Yourself it's a lot of it
has to do with the fact that they're in those
better time slots and they tend to schedule the women's
(46:17):
events in lesser time, slots and so they don't get
as much. Advertising they don't, have you, know a great
maternity leave and professional tennis for, Women so it's you,
know there's still battles to be. Fought But billy Jing
king is still out there fighting them.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
One last little, Thing. Chuck that always it struck. Me
before he died in nineteen ninety, FIVE i think like
the night before he, Died billy Jing king Visited Bobby
riggs to say.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Goodbye, yeah it's pretty. Great they had a, lifelong you,
know tie in. Friendship so that's.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
It that's the battle of the. Sexist it.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
Was it was.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Great how about? That, YEAH i feel LIKE i feel
Like Tim robbins In, anchorman remember The he's, like you
know we HAVE pbs are really done with women's. Lip.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
Yeah Also Steve carrell was in.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
That, yeah he loves. Lamp he loves. Lamp Since chuck
said he loves, LAMP i tricked him into. It he
just unlocked a listener.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
Mail, yeah this is a listener mail Where i'm going
to apologize To epha From ireland because apparently we have
here and there dabbled In irish erasure in our, show
which is something that is a total accident and something
That i'm going to be more aware of moving. Forward
(47:42):
and here's the. Email hi, guys longtime listener, Here i'm
so sad to hear Two irish erasure moments in one,
episode in The Third Man syndrome, episode you use the
example of The endurance expedition to show how it, works
and you Called Ernest Shackleton, british and If i'm not,
wrong Also Tom, crean but both men were reborn In.
Irish shackleton was born in Kil Key county Kill. Dare
(48:08):
DID i say that? RIGHT i THINK i? Did you said, Ki,
yeah Kil Key County killdare just under an hour From Dublin,
city And crean was born In, Anascaul County. Kerry this
is a sore spot For irish people as we are
often so often Called british and we don't take it so. Well,
example look Up Killian murphy also being Called. British but
(48:31):
we will forgive, you, However and that is From epha And.
Ifa that is me being an ignorant, person AND i
certainly know there's a, difference AND i have a hard
time keeping tracks, sometimes BUT i need to do better at.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
That so.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
Apologies nice, Work.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
Chuck i'm Sure i've done that before, too SO i
want to apologize.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
Too great two apologies in one, yes and who is that?
From that was FROM efa spelled A i F e.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Beautiful THANKS a LOT efa and if you want to
be LIKE efa and call us out on something we
stand for that you can send it in an email
to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Com stuff You Should know is a production Of. iHeartRadio
for more podcasts my Heart, radio visit The iHeartRadio, App Apple,
podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
Shows
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck.
It's just two of us, and that's great because I'll
be playing the role of Billy Junie Kink and Chuck's
going to play the role of male show Bennis Pig
Bobby and produce. Oh man, take it, Chuck. Hey.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Before we get going on this one, I have a
quick shout out and this is coming out a couple
of days after I did this because we're cutting it
so close because of our week off last week. But
that makes me happy because I was asked a friend
of mine's son. His name is Royce. He is a student,
a junior at Midtown High School here in Atlanta, and
(00:47):
he has a teacher, Miss Smolcoe, who is a long
time Stuff you Should Know listener. And when Royce told
Miss smokeol like, Hey, I know that guy. We're buddies.
We got hogs games together, kind of flipped out and
was like, oh my god, I wonder if, like, would
he be interested in helping us out with our podcast program?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Oh cool?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
And they set it up via email and I spent
yesterday which was in our World Monday at Midtown High
School addressing the junior class about two hundred kids, and
I gotta say, man, it was an incredible experience. The
students were into it. They were engaged, they had great questions,
(01:31):
they had great answers, they were you know, a lot
of it was sharing, you know, what they're doing with
this podcast project, which is based off of like stuff
you should know style stuff, which was super cool, like
these real philosophical questions that they're digging into and taking
opposite sides and debating, and they were seeking advice and
it was just it was an incredible experience. And I
(01:52):
just I left like on a real high about gen
Z and like where our future is headed. And it
was just awesome.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Great. So the broad strokes are gen Z got Chuck
high yesterday.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, yeah, they got me super high. It was really cool.
They were all just amazing kids, and miss Smolco is wonderful.
And the other teacher, I think his name was Alex,
I can't remember his last name, but he was super nice.
And they're just like, hats off to these teachers. What's
going on in the at least at Midtown High School
(02:27):
is amazing, And I just left feeling great. That was awesome.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I think Royce is getting in a.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
You know, Royce wasn't even there. He's does like a
late arrival thing because of like work study or something,
and so I was like, dude. I text him, was
like where were you? And he explained the whole deal
like that he's not even allowed in school till later.
So it was just one of those things. But everyone
was super nice and it was just it was was
so cool to see how into it everybody was.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Well way you go, Chuck, Oh, and real quick, there
were a couple of students I won't name them. I
have permission to name Royce because he's a pal, but
there were two legitimate, big time stuff you should know
listeners in the junior class that came up after and
said hello, and they were both like really really.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Nice, awesome shout out Thing one and thing two.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
That's right, way to.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Go, Chuck. You were basically a teacher for that moment.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I kind of felt that way. Maybe one day when
I retire, I'll just like go and teach for real.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I'll let you borrow my tweet jacket with the swedelboat watches.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
That don't be dumb jacket. Wow, that's a big deal.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
You have to overlook all the stains on it, all. Right,
So we are talking about the Battle of the sexes today,
which I guess. I mean, this is a tough act
to follow after your story.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Frankly, No, this is a great fun sort of pop
culture history story and sports story. There was a movie
about it just a handful of years ago, starring Steve
Carell as Bobby Riggs and Emma Stone as Bill King,
where they portrayed the very famous tennis match between a
(04:05):
male chauveness pig and aging over the hill hustler tennis
star that you know, basically came out and said, you
know what, men are better at women than everything, and
an old me can beat a young champion and Billy
Jean King, and let's do it on national TV at
the Houston Astrodome in front of a ton of people.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, and that's what happened the end, that's right. So
this was a really big deal. I mean it sounds
like just kind of light hearted, maybe a bit of
a joke. This actually still happens today, their battle of
the sexist tennis matches. Yeah, this was the first one
and it was a very big deal for everyone involved.
(04:51):
On the one hand, you have Bobby Riggs, like you said,
over the hill. He was fifty five and he was
trying to right, he was trying to fi two weeks
he was, Oh, that's right, the IDEs of March are
coming up.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Oh boy, yeah, so over the hill, I get it, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yes, although fifty five in nineteen seventy three was a
lot different than fifty five now right.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah, yeah, I don't look like Bobby Riggs.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
But he was over the hill, not just necessarily because
of his age. He just been so far out of
tennis for so long. He was an attention hound and
he wanted to get back in the spotlight. So for
him this was a gambit. It was a lot of
work to do it, but it was something he was
trying to do. On the other side was Billy Jing King,
who he took this very seriously because to her this
(05:35):
was symbolic of women's rights, which she was a tireless
fighter for, not just before this but after for essentially
your whole life still today.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, she's great. Love Billy Jing King.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
She's a hero.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Bobby Riggs. We'll talk about him in depth We're not
going to make excuses for the guy. But I will
say Billy Jinking remained very good friends with him and
never came out and said like you know, I mean,
when they were going at it, she was kind of
playing him up as a male Chownes pig, which he was,
but she would end up saying like Bobby Riggs was
(06:12):
a man of his time and sort of a victim
of being a man of his time, so she kind
of went easy on him. I'm not sure I'm going
to go so easy on him.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Well, I saw, I saw in places that there's it's
questionable whether he actually like even believed most of the
stuff he was saying that all again, all this was
a gambit. He figured out a really good way to yeah,
get media attention was to just be like the most
loudmouthed Chauvenes's pig, just saying the most offensive stuff and
becoming loathsome to women. That this would this would just
(06:43):
generate more buzz and more hype for what he was
trying to do, which I mean, just doing that is
a jerk move, but it's it's it's not set in
stone that he was someone who actually harbored these feelings personally,
So you got to bear that in mind while we're
telling this, because a lot of people realized that, like
(07:04):
anti feminists, a lot of men don't realize it, and
a lot of feminists don't realize it. They took it
everything he was doing very seriously, but like you said,
Billy Jing King didn't, which is a huge signal right there.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah, and I just hit this just hit my brain.
If I'm going to go hard on Bobby Rigs, then
I also need to do the same to Andy Kaufman
and his whole wrestling stick, which I think is one
of the great funny kind of comedy bits. But it
was kind of the same thing, like playing a role
to get women riled up to get attention.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Well, really, if we learned anything from this battle of
the sexist tennis matches, if you're gonna go hard on
Bobby Riggs, you need to go hard on Billy Jing King.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Right. Should we go back to the early seventies and
set the stage, Yes, all right. Early nineteen seventies was
it was a pretty volatile time. It was a big
time for women to are kind of standing up for
real and saying like, hey, we want attention. We want rights.
We want the same rights as men.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Roe v.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Wade was decided in seventy three. The Equal Rights Amendment
was all over the news, and the case of sports,
certainly nineteen seventy two with Title nine of the Education
Amendments Act that required schools to offer girls and women
the opportunities to basically get equal funding and participate equally
in athletics as boys and men. So it was a
(08:33):
It was a big time for women's advocacy and feminism
and women's rights between like nineteen and you know, certainly
before that, but definitely between nineteen seventy and like nineteen
seventy five.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, just as an aside, we did, if I may
say so, a pretty good episode on the Equal Rights
Amendment in twenty twenty one called why is the Era
still not ratified?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah, which is true.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah. So, yeah, it was a big time. There was
a lot of momentum for women's lib feminism. It was
also a big time for tennis, which was becoming really,
really popular, especially in the United States. The number of
Americans who played tennis tripled from nineteen seventy to nineteen
seventy four. And one of the reasons why is because
(09:17):
the tennis world started holding opens. I never knew this before,
but the US opened the Australian Open. The reason they're
called opens because they're open to all players. You can
be an amateur, you can be a pro, and you
can compete in this These tournaments an open tournament that
was brand new. I think Wimbledon was the first one
to start it, I think in nineteen sixty eight. So
(09:40):
a lot of really freaky, exciting stuff's going on in the.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
World, that's right. Billy Jean King was and we should
also point out that, you know, as far as wage disparity,
in nineteen sixty eight, if you were a professional tennis player,
you earned two to three times as much as a woman.
And when the sport grew, that gap actually grew, it
didn't get more narrow, which was pretty startling at the time.
(10:06):
But Billy Jean King was born in nineteen forty three,
and by the time this event rolled around, she was huge.
She had won ten Grand Slam titles by seventy three.
She was a number one ranked tennis player six different
times in nineteen seventy or by nineteen seventy three was
the nineteen seventy two Sports Illustrated Sportsperson of the Year,
(10:28):
and like you said, was a real feminist activist kind
of from the jump. I think there was a story
from when she was a kid, when she was eleven
or twelve, a junior player, she was not allowed to
be in a photo like a tournament photo because she
wasn't wearing the tennis skirt. She was wearing shorts, and
they said, you can't be in this picture. And immediately
little twelve year old Billy Jean King was like, what
the hell.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, she was like, these are sports. They said, that doesn't.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Count, right, that's not a thing yet.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
So yeah. And one thing about Billy Jean King from
a bunch of stuff I read and saw about hers,
that like she's she was tireless and still it. She's
a tireless activist for women's rights, like she did ever
slow down. And when you kind of learn about all
the side stuff she did to promote women in tennis
and women's rights in general, Like on top of that,
(11:18):
bear in mind she's one of the top tennis players
in the world by dominating in tennis, so that takes
a lot of practice, a lot of dedication, and she's
doing all this other stuff at the same time. So
she's like basically the definition of tireless.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yeah, and she was doing this in the nineteen sixties
because all those accomplishments I mentioned was by seventy three.
But in nineteen sixty six she was the number one
women's tennis player in the world and she was making
one hundred dollars a week as a playground instructor at
Los Angeles State College. So the money the athletes were
making was not anything like it is today, and it
(11:57):
was way, way worse for women. I think first Open
you mentioned at Wimbledon in sixty eight, she won that
tournament and won seven hundred and fifty pounds. Rod Labor,
the men's champion, won two thousand pounds, and she was
like in sixty eight, she was like, this is totally unfair.
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, and money comes up a lot. It was. The
reason why is it's an easy shorthand to basically point
out women's lesser treatment compared to men. It's also something
that most people can just kind of wrap their minds around, like, yeah,
seven hundred and fifty pounds is a lot less than
two thousand pounds, but they're both the champions. That doesn't
make any sense. So money is a big focus throughout this,
(12:38):
but it's not just because everybody wants money, you know.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yeah, totally. So in nineteen seventy, Billy Jean King was like,
we need to do something sort of official and sort
of big here. So she looked to a woman named
Gladys Heldman, who was the founder of World Tennis magazine.
She was a very big prominent figure. You're in the
tennis world overall, obviously because of World Tennis, and also
(13:04):
because she was at the time the mother of a
very high ranked player named Julie Heldman. That was her daughter.
So she was a good person to go to. And
they said, here's what we can do to make a splash.
There's a tennis tournament coming up called the Pacific Southwest
Open in LA where they're paying The prize purse for
the men's champion is twelve five hundred, the purse for
(13:25):
the women's champion is fifteen hundred dollars, which I mean,
looking back at the Wimbledon disparity, that wasn't too bad
compared to this. Yeah, and this was even after that,
and they said, why don't we boycott this tournament? And
Gladys Heldman said, you know what, why don't we start
our own tournament that competes with this tournament, And everyone
(13:46):
went ooh, this sounds exciting.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah, so yeah, that was a huge step beyond what
they were originally thinking of. And so the US Tennis
Association at the time they were called the US Lawn
Tennis Association also to They were like, hey, go ahead
and try that, but we are going to suspend you.
We might ban you from tournament tournament play, We're going
(14:09):
to erase your rankings, like it's going to be a
bad jam if you guys go off and form your
own tournament. And that it took a lot of bravery
because not all women tennis players signed on for this.
In fact, only nine, including Billy Jeane King, said you
know what, we're going to go do this anyway, and
so they signed contracts with Heldman, and so they became
(14:31):
pros on this other tour, which protected them from getting
punished on the USLTA tour, and they started their own championship,
which eventually was I think supported and sponsored by Virginia
Slims Cigarettes.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yeah, that's right, and we should mention that contract was
for a dollar each so they they clearly were doing
this to make a statement and not to make a
ton of money, right, But Philip Morris, Yeah, they stepped
in because they there was a recent federal ban on
advertising on TV and radio for cigarettes, and so they said,
we got to get our name out there somewhere. So
let's call this the you know, we've got these Virginia
(15:08):
Slims with its quasi feminist message. You've come a long way, baby.
That was our ad slogan for a long.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Time, long time.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
And tennis, you know, the Original Nine is what they
were called, those tennis players that went along or the
eight that went along with Billy jen King and said
they're like, yeah, I mean, we're athletes. It's a little
weird to have a cigarette sponsor, but we need a sponsor,
so we'll take it. And that tournament went over really well,
and it was so successful that they said, hey, why
don't we start our own circuit, and they had the
(15:36):
Virginia Slim Circuit. There were eight more tournaments that they
sponsored and the original nine. You know, they initially did
follow through with their threat to like ban them. The USLTA, Yeah,
the USLTA at the time, but they said, oh, actually
they're doing so well over there, We're in trouble now,
(15:56):
so we need to join forces. And they gave up
and they merged with the Virginia Slim Events.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, and I'm not usually one to defend tobacco producers,
but I saw a PBS I think American Master's clip
that was interviewing some of the original nine and they
were like, Virginia Slims showed up, like they knew how
to market, they knew how to get buzz. They put
a ton of money behind advertising and like they this
(16:26):
was not like a just a whatever thing to them.
They were actually a really great sponsor for this. So yeah,
they yes, these nine women, and I think eventually more joined.
They were like, if you won't include us, we're just
gonna go create our own thing. Like they worked at
it like that and it actually paid off in aces.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Yeah for sure. Hey you want to take.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
A break, Hey, yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
All right, we'll be back right after this. All right,
(17:21):
So where we left off, the original nine went off
and formed their own Virginia Slim circuit. They were, you know,
endangered the USLTA such that they partnered with them eventually,
but money started flowing in a little bit. Nineteen seventy one,
Billy Jean King was the first female athlete of any
sport at all to make more than one hundred thousand dollars,
(17:43):
a lot of money, and nineteen seventy one dollars still
a lot less than her peers on the male side
of the equation. And so she was still, you know,
banging that drum. She wasn't like, all right, our work
is done. And in nineteen seventy three, before Wimbledon that year,
she got together in London where Wimledon is in a
hotel room with sixty three I guess it was probably
(18:04):
a large meeting room, Yeah, sixty three other women tennis players,
and they said, all right, we're doing this today. We're
going to form the WTA, the Women's Tennis Association. We're
gonna have an actual union in place where we can,
you know, do what unions do and stick up for ourselves.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yes, they threatened to boycott, like pretty much immediately after
they formed the WTA. They said that they were going
to boycott the US Open if we don't get equal
prize money for women and men. And I believe that
was successful. They got the US Open to agree and
it was this is like things are moving along for
(18:44):
women's equality in tennis at this time. Right, So it's
a huge focus of conversation with tennis.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Yeah, I mean it was all over the media everywhere
you looked. It was about sort of equal pay, equal rights.
And that was in the regular world, and all of
a sudden it was now like in the sports world
in a big way.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Well, put.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
So now we can talk a little bit about our
our I'm gonna put it in scare quotes, our villain,
mister Bobby Riggs, who was I'll tell you what man
I mean, if you it is very Andy kaufmanesque. If
you watch interviews with this guy. If he's nothing, he
is entertaining.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
For sure. He was a true great tennis player at
one time, shortly after World War Two. I think he
was the number one men's player in nineteen forty six
and nineteen forty seven, and not just from like December
to January like both of those years.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah, So he had, you know, the goods to back
up like this. It wasn't just some dude who had
a tennis racket. But after the late forties, he essentially
like left the tour and he started hustling and taking
bets from essentially anybody who who would play him in
(20:01):
tennis pool. I think you saw a sixty minutes clip
where he was gambling on throwing cards into a waste basket,
like he would bet on anything. There was a quote
on that sixty minutes clip where he said he likes
to play for big money. If he can't play for
big money, he'll play for small money. If I can't
(20:23):
play for small money, I won't get out of bed
that day. Like that's just what that guy did. He gambled,
he hustled. Andy was known as a loud mouth too,
but he also seems to be fairly loved. Essentially, he
was like one of those people that you just kind
of you couldn't help, but like even though yeah he
was allowed mouth and trying to get you to bet
some money.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yeah, he was a troll. Livia called him a pre
internet troll, and that's exactly what he was. It seemed
like a bit of an act and a bit of
a stick to get attention. Like we said, but he
would say things, you know, a woman's place is in
the kitchen, in the bedroom, and not necessarily in that order.
Or women played twenty five percent as good as men,
so they should get twenty five percent of the money
(21:05):
men get. I was reading I think it was a
oh was it Esquire or something, an article about him,
and the whole idea of playing Billy Jean King was
birth when I think a reporter was just talking to
him about you know, can men beat women? Or who
could beat Billy Jean King and tennis and he said,
(21:26):
I think any guy in the top one hundred could
beat Billy Jean King. And he went, in fact, I
think I could beat her. And that's sort of when
he seemed to hatch this idea for publicity and money.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, he was like, oh, but there's good.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Action there, Yeah, totally he so.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yes, so like he said these things. Actually at least
one of those quotes is from one of his autobiographies. Yeah, so,
like he wrote the stuff down. This wasn't just stuff
he started saying. When he decided to play Billy Jean King.
He was already known as a male chauvinist. But yes,
he was an attention hound and this was again a
way that he figured out how to do this. So
(22:03):
he started publicly challenging Billy Jane King. He's like in
his mid fifties. She's in her late twenties prime, and
she's like, now that's okay, I'm too busy. And again,
remember like she was genuinely tireless organizing the Virginia Slim
Circuit and like creating the Women's Tennis Association, all the
while winning all of these championships in Grand slams. So
(22:26):
she had a legitimate excuse like I'm too busy. The
thing is, there was also like a case you could
make that she saw very clearly like I don't know
if I have that much to gain by playing this,
and I have a lot to lose for the women's movement.
I could easily set it back if I lose. So
there was she had good reason to kind of avoid
(22:47):
this as long as she could.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yeah, it's sort of a lose lose proposition for her.
If she beats him, everyone's like, well, of course she
beat this old man, right, and that's how he probably
would have played it up as well. We'll see what happened.
But and if she loses that, of course, like looks
terrible to be beaten by the old man. So she
was wise to avoid it, I think. But there was
another woman In fact, she was the I think she
(23:12):
was the number one player in the world women's player
in nineteen seventy three named Margaret Court and Ozzy and
she was like she wasn't super active in the politics
of women's sports, and she was like, yeah, sure, I'll
play him. She stepped right up and in May of
nineteen seventy three, this was in San Diego or outside
San Diego. They played a three set match where ten
(23:33):
thousand dollars and about ten million people a lot of
put people tuned into the first one on CBS. Thirty
five hundred people were there live and he beat her.
He beat her six two six' one by PLAYING i
want to say a certain, thing BUT i. Can't he
was playing like a. Punk oh, Yeah he's playing junk
shots and like drop, shots and he wasn't playing like
(23:56):
sort of real. Tennis he was playing sort of joke.
Tennis and when you're playing against a player that can hit,
aggressive strong shots and you're just plunking him over the,
net like it's gonna you can't play tennis that way
if you're a real, player and it threw her off her.
Game she got in his. HEAD i think the moment
was a little too big for. HER i don't think
she realized how much attention there was going to, be
(24:16):
and she ended up getting beat pretty.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Badly, yeah he got in her, head, Right. Yeah so,
yes it's called The Mother's day massacre because it was
held On Mother's, day AND i mean it was really.
Bad but there's a point THAT i want you to
hang on to for. Later as much of a punk
as he, played he didn't play actual serious. Tennis he's
playing joky tennis to. Win he took that match very.
(24:40):
Seriously he trained for months ahead of. Time he was
playing or training like ten to twelve hours a day every.
Day he really, trained and by the time he was
by the time the game came, around he knew he
was going to Beat Margaret. Court so just keep that
in mind how hard he trained for.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
That. Okay, Yeah and also we should point out like
at the very beginning of that, match to open it,
up he presented her with a bouquet of roses and
she curtsied back to, him And Billy Jin king is
watching this just like you, know furious, inside like she's, like,
oh he's, Playing and she in fact said later that
she played right into his. Hands there AND i would
(25:18):
have grabbed him and kissed. Him if he gets, DIRTY
i can get tough. Too so she hated the fact
That Margaret court went out there and sort of curtsied
to him and took the roses and then lost on NATIONAL,
TV i guess INTERNATIONAL. Tv and so she was, like all,
right you know What i'm gonna do. It i'm gonna
step up And i'm gonna Play Bobby. Riggs it's my.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Turn, yeah so she agreed to do this and it
became immediately, BUZZWORTHY i guess is what you would call
it if you're into that kind of.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Thing that's. Right the liver versus the lobber is how
they dubbed.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
It, Yeah, so LIKE i, said it's immediately generating. Buzz
Bobby riggs starts giving television interviews to any camera that
will stand still long, enough and he's a magnet for
that kind of stuff because again he's a loud. Mouth
he's saying horrible things about. Women he's accepting like the
male chauvinus pig, moniker like With pride or. Whatever, yeah
(26:14):
and he's just like one of, those like he would
talk a mile a. Minute he had so much, energy
he was just a little a little kind of squirrely,
guy kind.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Of, like, Yeah Richard.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Simmons did you ever See Richard simmons when he would
go On? Letterman oh, yeah, Okay so it's great the
way That letterman kind of Regarded Richard simmons, affectionately but
also like this guy's he's moving around a. Lot. Yeah
he was like, that but amped up on like speed.
Essentially so he was a magnet for cameras and he
was giving interviews all over the.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Place, yeah and he was also you, know he's adding
hype for the event obviously by saying things, like you,
know she's a, woman they don't have the emotional, stability she'll.
Choke he added more. Stakes he said that he would
jump from The London bridge And arizona or The Pasadena
bridge if he. Lost and you, know he was all
over the. Place he was on the cover Of time
(27:06):
magazine that year In. September it was a caricature of
him wearing a male chaubeness badge and then there was
a picture of a pig and a banner that said
The Happy. Hustler so it was all working exactly as he.
Planned But Billy Jean, king like if he took that
first match. Seriously he didn't take this one as, seriously
(27:26):
And billy Jen king was really taking it.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Seriously, Yeah i'm not sure if he was just you,
know resting on his laurels because of how badly he
Beat Margaret court that he just assumed that that was
going to translate into Playing Billy Jean. King but he
did not train nearly as much as he did For
billy For Margaret. Court, essentially he was out partying in
the lead up to all of. This he was also
(27:50):
really really getting more and more offensive as things went.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
On, Right, oh you're gonna leave this one for.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Me.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah one of the things he did was he showed
up to practice one day with the cameras there with
holes cut out in his shirt so his nipples could,
show and he said That Billy Jean king would look
better in. This and she came out in public and
she was, like this guy is a, creep which, was you,
know about as tough as you could be in language back. Then,
(28:20):
Yeah and he was publicly.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
And it was at a press conference with them, together
and he, said, well you should take that back and she, said,
nope creep Stands and she said LATER i saw in
an interview she said, that, like she didn't take him,
seriously but she knew that there were men out there
that took him seriously and that he had crossed the,
line and she needed to make sure that that was.
(28:41):
Demonstrated that she was not okay with that.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
One, YEAH i think she kind of played it all just.
Right it was really pretty savvy stuff on ther, end for.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Sure SO i, say we take is this our second? Break?
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yeah second?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Break all, Right so the gun is going to go
off when we come, back.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Stop.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
OFF i wonder how many people are, like what is
he talking about when he keeps saying the gun is
going to go? Off Whenever act three comes, Around, WELL
i would, say study your checkof, friend.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
That's, right and not your checkoff. Friend your checkoff come a, friend.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Right not the friend that you're, LIKE i gotta hang
out with him and then you do you real. Quick
you check him off your to do. List not that.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Guy, yeah we all have checkof.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Friends, Yeah i'm Sure i'm a lot of people's check Off.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
No, no, no, no. No all, Right so where are
we are we? At match? Time, basically which was turned
into a complete circus by the, Way.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yes this Is september, twentieth nineteen seventy. Three is that
The Houston. Astrodome, man thirty thousand people showed up in
person to see. THIS i saw all over the, place Including,
britannica that ninety million people watched it around the. World that's.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
YEAH i Think olivia had fifty million. People BUT i
watched an interview with her WITH i mean serious journalist it.
Was it Was Kathy lee And hoda and they said ninety,
million and they were just drunk on white wine at
nine in the morning or, Whatever SO i trust.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Them, man that was a weird, time wasn't it?
Speaker 3 (30:33):
That it was a very weird. TIME i did want
to point out THAT i looked. UP i was, like,
well how many people see a tennis tournament at like
The Grandes stage And Center court At wimbledon is about
fifteen thousand, People so this was double.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
That. Wow. Yeah plus it was in the beautiful New,
astrodome so.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Oh, yeah so.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Great so the odds were very much in favor On Bobby.
Riggs the odds were six to one That riggs would.
Win and this was like the whole thing was kind
of presented in the media as like The battle of
the sexiest, thing the man versus, woman and every juvenile
(31:13):
joke or you, know quip or whatever you could make
out of. That that is how the whole thing was being.
Promoted that's how it was being played up in the.
Media it was not like this is a very serious
thing that they set women's women's rights back or move them.
Forward then of that was was in. There it was
all just this almost tongue in cheek approach to. It
(31:35):
and that's how the whole, thing if you were a,
viewer that's what you were kind of.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Shown, yeah for, Sure and that's a good thing to point.
Out there Was hollywood was. Involved there were a lot
of actors and singers and stuff that were in a
celebrity tournament. Beforehand they were really milking. It they when
they came in The university Of houston band performed the Song,
conquest which is an a them from the nineteen forty
(32:01):
seven Movie captain From. Castile that's When Bobby riggs came.
In they Played Helen REDDY'S I Am. Woman When Billy
Jean king came, In lyvia pointed out That John, Wayne
Bill cosby AND Oj simpson were in, attendance AND i
had probably thirteen different comments or jokes written out for,
that But i'm just going to let that trio stand
(32:24):
without comment.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Dans on its.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Own, YEAH i think.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
So SO abc made a fat one point two million
dollars off of ads for this. Match, Yeah astrodome got
about half that and people paying admission. Price. Yeah and
the so with The Margaret Court Mother's Day massacre game
that was played under women's, rules in that there were three.
(32:49):
Sets that's how women's tennis matches are played three. Sets
men's tennis matches are played five. Sets Billy Jean king was, like,
no we're going to play five sets best of five,
essentially so there were, five which was. Smart, yeah, yeah for.
Sure She. Yes another thing that you'll see that's happened
recently is sometimes so a woman's court might be smaller
(33:12):
than the man's, court which makes it harder for the
man to land a ball in.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Bounds like in A battle of the sexist.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Match, yes thank, you there was nothing like. That this
was like a men's match That Billy Jean king was playing.
Against Bobby.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Riggs oh, yeah well she was, LIKE i got this
fifty five year old, guy like he wants the three
set match so we're going to go five Because i'm
in great, shape. Right Bobby riggs enters on a carriage
pulled by women that are outfitted As bobby's bosom. Buddies
how Did Billy Jing king come?
Speaker 2 (33:44):
In she came in on basically a platform carried by
men in TOGAS i also saw As, egyptians Like egyptian.
Servants they were shirtless, essentially and they were brawny. Dudes
so like mostly not her, idea but she was going
along with, it, right, yeah she. Was, Yeah well you
were saying that she was taking it, seriously and she,
(34:05):
was but she was also like willing to play along
with this, Too like she wasn't just some like stick
in the, mud you.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Know, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
So just very. Appropriately Bobby riggs was sponsored by Sugar daddy, candy,
right and he Presented Billy Jean king with a two
foot long Sugar. Daddy remember Those they would just pull
the fillings right out of your head, Totally and So
king was, like, OH i have a gift for you.
Too it was a piglet that she Named Bobby riggs
(34:35):
because he was a Male chauvenu's pig and don't worry
about the. Pig she coordinated with the Promoter Jerry, perenchio
very legendary, promoter that the pig would not be eaten or,
harmed it would go to live on a farm, afterward
and it.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Did that says everything you need to know About Billy Jean. Kings, yeah,
yeah she thought of everything she.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Did she she crossed her t's and. Died oinks that's.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Right so of course it's nineteen seventy, three so you
want to get the best in the business at the
time to do the play by, Play so they got
none other Than Howard. Cosell, initially they had a tennis
promoter and anti feminist Named Jack kramer who was going
to Do they're going to do sort of a he
Versus she, commentary and he was going to be on,
rigside and one of the original Nine Rosie cassol's was
(35:24):
going to be On billy Jan king. Side But, kramer
and this also speaks To Billy Jing, king he was
one of the guys behind that original tournament that they
protested and wouldn't play in The Pacific Southwest open where they,
said oh, yeah well we're going to ban you. Then
so she was, like, hey this is all fun and
(35:44):
games and, everything but if that jerk is, Involved i'm
not even going to do. This so they Pulled kramer
off the off the.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Broadcast, yeah and they didn't Have Rosie kassall speak To
And i'm really glad they didn't do. That THAT'S i,
mean it's a gimmick and it's, understandable but it would
have made the whole thing. Suck they brought In Gene,
scott who was the publisher Of Tennis, week and he
just gave commentary like it was a regular tennis, match
which is kind of what he wanted in this. One. Agreed,
(36:13):
SO i, mean Imagine Dennis miller And Dennis miller calling
a tennis. Match you don't want? That, yeah, WELL i
mean think about. It whose idea was it to put
him On monday night? Football on the one, hand it's.
Brilliant on the other it's like, What, yeah that was.
Weird but it was it lasted for years, Too it's
not like it was a couple of.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Games, yeah, no HE i think it was a full,
season wasn't.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
IT i think it was more than, that that was?
Speaker 3 (36:39):
It, Yea, yeah that was.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Weird, Yeah so the game is on essentially that's that's
the point we've reached. Here that's.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Right So Bobby riggs takes a three two lead in
the first, set and later On Billy Jean king would, say,
LIKE i was in. TROUBLE i KNEW i was making some.
MISTAKES i was in my head a little, bit AND
i knew THAT i could not give this first set. Away,
basically like he needed to get that set for his psychological,
(37:06):
standing and so that first set was so so important for,
her so she knew that she had to win. It
she was down three to, two and she came back
and beat him and won that first set six to,
four which was a huge blow to his.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Psyche, yeah she said that she could tell that that
had gotten to him when they switched. Sides so she
also changed her playing. Style, normally she would be like
she'd want to win the point as quickly and efficiently as. Possible,
instead she started drawing volleys out and basically put the
ball in one corner and then put the ball in
(37:40):
the other. Corner so she had this old man running
back and forth chasing down these balls to purposefully tire them.
OUT i, mean that's just so cool that people are
capable of doing. That you, know, LIKE i want the
ball to go ry, here So i'm going to go
right there with this, racket even though the ball's coming
at me at seventy miles an.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Hour, yeah for. Sure so she wore him. Out by the,
end he was talking about hand. Cramps the levity had
kind of lessened, because like you, said this fifty five
year old was an old old, man.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Right so remember we were so, old, right not fifty
four fifty?
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Five, Okay, OKAY i got a couple more.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Weeks So Billy Jing king, won and she won like,
convincingly sixty four sixty, three sixty, three so remember best
out of. Five she beat him in three straight. Sets,
yeah and she got her one hundred thousand check from
no less Than George, foreman WHO i read had hoped
to Use Bobby riggs the pig to demonstrate his new
(38:41):
type of indoor, grill but was disappointed that he wasn't allowed.
To oh, No and so this was it was just
an immediate. Splash remember this is a media. Spectacle everybody
knows about. This ninety million people are, watching so the
media just got right in on it again to let everybody.
Know Billy Jean king won and let's celebrate her as
(39:02):
a pro tennis. Player and that's.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
It that's. RIGHT i think we Know josh's coy voice by.
Now that's not at all how it was. Reported of,
course they kept reporting it sort of in the lowest
common denominator. Way THE ap said that, screaming delirious women's
livers lit up more brightly than the rocket shooting astrodome.
Scoreboard even my Beloved New York times Said king, collapsed
(39:26):
tears in her eyes and her husband's, arms adding, later
all of a, sudden she was a, champion a, woman
and a little girl all at the same.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Time that one brings like my eyes water from that.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
One, yeah that's.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Tough that's so much worse than the astrodome, scoreboard, RIGHT i,
mean neither one are. Great, yeah that one is just
like they meant. That they were trying to like really
be poignant, there and it's just, like good, God.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Yeah they missed the.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Mark the thing About Bobby riggs is he wasn't, like,
well you, know she obviously is some freak woman who
who beat. Me that's the only woman who could. Be
he did the. Opposite he accepted the defeat with dignity And. Grace,
yeah he saw that.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Coming he had a.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Thing where he hopped over the net win or lose
after the end of every, match and he. Did he
hopped right over the net and went up to her
and he said confidentially to her that he underestimated. Her,
Yeah and then in the press conference he went on
to basically say the same, thing like she beat him very.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Clearly, yeah he said she was too strong for. Me
there have since been rumors that he threw the match
as a gambler with six to one odds, against that
he threw the match and bet against. Himself there was
a report IN i think twenty THIRTEEN espn dug into
that and that there were like mafia figures he was
working with to rig the. Odds we'll never know the,
(40:50):
Truth But Bobby riggs said he didn't throw. It Billy
Jean king said THAT i don't think he threw. It
like she could tell what was going on emotionally on
that court and could tell that he wanted to win
and that he was. Losing you, know he might have
prepared like he should. Have AND i guess we'll never
know the. Truth but my money's on she beat.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Him, yeah my Two but there's that rumor does have,
legs like he did hang out with mob, guys he
was a huge. Gambler the idea was that he was
indebted to the, mob like one hundred grand for in
gambling debts and they would wipe it clean if he threw,
this and that he was also betting on, himself and
(41:32):
his son, said it's. POSSIBLE i don't really think that's,
true but it's, possible although his best friend is, LIKE
i won't even entertain that that's, Possible like he just
didn't do. That, yeah but one of the things that
people point to is he was making some terrible mistakes
during the, Game so either she got in his head
and he was rattled or he was throwing. It it
(41:53):
just seems like the general consensus is that now he
it seems pretty fringe that to genuinely leave that he
threw the.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Match, YEAH i. Agree WHICH i saw bits of that.
MOVIE i never saw the whole. Thing the casting was,
incredible Like Steve carell And Emma stone were kind of.
PERFECT i don't think the movie was reviewed like super,
favorably but it looked. Okay it's supposedly very true to. Life, actually, yeah,
(42:21):
Yeah Billy Jen. King at least you Told hoda And
Kathy lee that it was pretty true to. Life she said.
That she said they got the essence of. It she,
said it's a, movie of, course but they nailed the.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Essence, man have you Seen? Bogogonia oh, boy, yeah that
is one of my new favorite. Movies that is so.
GOOD i did not LIKE i can never remember his,
name what is?
Speaker 3 (42:39):
It i'm glad you watched. That Oh Jesse.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Plemons, no, no, no the?
Speaker 3 (42:42):
Director oh oh oh? Uh Yugust. Lanthemos thank.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
You wouldn't That let me try saying it, Too Yorgus.
LANTHEMOS i don't Think i've ever tried it Because i've
always been, Like i'm gonna screw this.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Up WELL i might have screwed it, up but that's
WHAT i don't.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Think SO i think you got it. ANYWAY i did
not Like Poor, things AND i was, like, OH i don't,
know BECAUSE i liked everything leading up to, that but not.
This and THEN i saw. This i'm, like he's.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Back, yeah it's a. GREAT i told. YOU i texted
you to see kinds Of kindness. Too have you seen that?
Speaker 2 (43:11):
ONE i still have not. Know i've been watching just
tons of riff.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Tracks, yeah it's hard to get out of the cycle
what you get in? Sure all, Right so back to
this after the back to The battle of The. Sexes after,
this he wanted to kind of keep the media spotlight on,
him so he tried to jump off The London bridge In,
arizona but the sheriff there so, like he can't do,
(43:34):
That so he had his picture taken on the, lake
blow it and a. Raft Billy Jean king went on
to just keep Being Billy Jean. King in nineteen seventy,
four she founded The Women's Sports, foundation which is a
nonprofit for women's and girls and. Athletics and she would
end up sort of very publicly coming out of the
(43:56):
closet after being married for a long time to a,
guy not The Larry, king but Her Larry king in
nineteen eighty, one her longtime manager and, Assistant Marilyn. Barnett
it was very sad what. Happened she filed a lawsuit
against her which revealed their affair that they had from
seventy two to seventy nine because she had fallen from
(44:16):
a balcony Of Billy Jing's Billy Jing king's house In
malibu and lost the use of her legs and said, that,
Hey Billy Jing king promised to give me that house
and support me. Financially so she took her to court
and it got really.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Messy, YEAH i. Saw so the fall from the house In,
MALIBU i saw was an attempted, suicide and that she
Had Marilyn barnett had Blackmailed Larry king And Billy Jing
king before the, lawsuit basically said, hey if you don't
want this to come, out let's settle BEFORE i actually
go public with. It they. Didn't she went public with,
(44:49):
it and, then to her great, credit after being outed
in nineteen eighty what eighty one eighty, One Billy Jing kink,
said you know, what we'd never promised The malibu, house but,
Yes i'm. Gay larry AND i have an open marriage
and we're actually going to stay together for the time.
Being and they stayed together until nineteen eighty, seven and
(45:12):
they divorced Because Billy Jean king fell For Elana, kloss
a fellow tennis, player and they ended up getting married
in twenty. Eighteen so this is. Enormous she was. Outed
she hadn't outed. Herself her choice to do so was,
removed but she stood behind. It she didn't deny, it
she didn't deny who she. Was she, said, Yep i'm. Gay.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
Yeah it was pretty. Great as far as equality and
pay and pro, sports that's obviously still a. Thing it
was two thousand and seven when all The Grand slams
agreed to pay women equally in, tennis and they still
don't and some of the other big, EVENTS i think
just a couple of years, ago the twenty twenty Four Canadian,
open it was a five point nine million dollar pool
(45:57):
for the men in two point million dollar pool for.
Women and if you, know if you come back with
an argument of, like, yeah well the you, know the
men's events are they get more viewers and more advertising
because they're in those better time, slots then you kind
of just said it. Yourself it's a lot of it
has to do with the fact that they're in those
better time slots and they tend to schedule the women's
(46:17):
events in lesser time, slots and so they don't get
as much. Advertising they don't, have you, know a great
maternity leave and professional tennis for, Women so it's you,
know there's still battles to be. Fought But billy Jing
king is still out there fighting them.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
One last little, Thing. Chuck that always it struck. Me
before he died in nineteen ninety, FIVE i think like
the night before he, Died billy Jing king Visited Bobby
riggs to say.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Goodbye, yeah it's pretty. Great they had a, lifelong you,
know tie in. Friendship so that's.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
It that's the battle of the. Sexist it.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
Was it was.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Great how about? That, YEAH i feel LIKE i feel
Like Tim robbins In, anchorman remember The he's, like you
know we HAVE pbs are really done with women's. Lip.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
Yeah Also Steve carrell was in.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
That, yeah he loves. Lamp he loves. Lamp Since chuck
said he loves, LAMP i tricked him into. It he
just unlocked a listener.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
Mail, yeah this is a listener mail Where i'm going
to apologize To epha From ireland because apparently we have
here and there dabbled In irish erasure in our, show
which is something that is a total accident and something
That i'm going to be more aware of moving. Forward
(47:42):
and here's the. Email hi, guys longtime listener, Here i'm
so sad to hear Two irish erasure moments in one,
episode in The Third Man syndrome, episode you use the
example of The endurance expedition to show how it, works
and you Called Ernest Shackleton, british and If i'm not,
wrong Also Tom, crean but both men were reborn In.
Irish shackleton was born in Kil Key county Kill. Dare
(48:08):
DID i say that? RIGHT i THINK i? Did you said, Ki,
yeah Kil Key County killdare just under an hour From Dublin,
city And crean was born In, Anascaul County. Kerry this
is a sore spot For irish people as we are
often so often Called british and we don't take it so. Well,
example look Up Killian murphy also being Called. British but
(48:31):
we will forgive, you, However and that is From epha And.
Ifa that is me being an ignorant, person AND i
certainly know there's a, difference AND i have a hard
time keeping tracks, sometimes BUT i need to do better at.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
That so.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
Apologies nice, Work.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
Chuck i'm Sure i've done that before, too SO i
want to apologize.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
Too great two apologies in one, yes and who is that?
From that was FROM efa spelled A i F e.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Beautiful THANKS a LOT efa and if you want to
be LIKE efa and call us out on something we
stand for that you can send it in an email
to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Com stuff You Should know is a production Of. iHeartRadio
for more podcasts my Heart, radio visit The iHeartRadio, App Apple,
podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
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