January 27, 2026 • 43 mins
The Charge of the Light Brigade is a famous poem about a lesser famous military action during the Crimean War. Tune in today for a rare SYSK walk through wartime history.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
Chuck and Jerry's here too, just cracking us up. And
this is stuff you should know.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
That's right. Kind of a rare detailed war battle episode.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yeah, we don't do a lot of war stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, a little bit here and there.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
A little here there. Yeah, but usually it's like some
crazy commando story like you're right, you know, and usually
where the Nazis are getting beat up because we love
that narrative.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yeah, we usually don't like, say, hey, let's dive into
some specific battles of the Crimean War.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Right, But for all of you fans of the Crimean
War who didn't look at the title, you're like, oh,
I know what this one's about. Of course, it's about
the Charge of the Light Brigade. And if you were
an English student, sorry and English student and you studied poetry,
you're probably familiar with the poem The Charge of the
(01:07):
Light Brigade by Alfred Kama Lord Tennyson. I think you're
supposed to say the comm out lab from what I understand, Yeah,
like the colon, but that was a real deal that
really happened, and it's a really complicated, complex story that's
also extremely fascinating and totally nuts at the end.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, So I guess we should probably set up a
little bit about just what the Crimean War was.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, So the Crimean War was over the course of
a few years from eighteen fifty three to fifty six.
It was in Europe, fought between Russia and Britain, France,
and Turkey, which was part of the Ottoman Empire. Turkey
was that is, and it was known for a lot
of things. There were some you know, interesting people that
came out of this ended up being super famous, and
(01:57):
a lot of lives lost, but notably, most of the
half a million lives lost, like maybe as many as
seventy five percent died from disease and things like that
instead of on the battlefield.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, which is terrible. That was a reason that two
now famous women showed up to help. One was Florence Nightingale,
who was very well known as the Lady with the Lamp.
She showed up and started using like evidence based treatments
and apparently the mortality rate at these horrible field hospitals
(02:29):
went from forty one percent when she showed up down
to two percent at the end of the war. It's
pretty impressive. And then there's a less well known woman
named Mary Secole who was born in Jamaica. She was
mixed race, and she appealed to be sent to the
Crimean Front, like Florence Nightingale, was was turned down. So
she went herself and showed up and made huge, huge
(02:53):
gains and saving lives there as well.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, and it was the first big war covered by
the press. Notably, Tolstoy got to start there, you know,
writing about the you know, dispatches from the front basically, right.
It's also weirdly where the black lava comes from. That,
you know, the what we in America might call a
(03:16):
ski mask or a scary mask, or a scary mask
or a cat burglar mask, it comes from here. So
lots of sort of little weird things. And obviously, like
you mentioned the Charge of the Light Brigade, the very
famous poem. But the whole thing started over a religious
argument basically in the Ottoman Empire, wherein for several years
(03:36):
the French Catholics were battling it out with the Russian
Orthodox Church over who controlled the holy sites the Christian
holy sites within the Ottoman Empire, which really ticked off
Zar Nicholas the First.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, so he also we should say the Ottoman Empire
was very powerful for a while, but we're joining them
at the twilight, maybe even the end of their empire,
which I think broke up in World War One, and
this is about sixty years before that. So the Ottoman
Empire was not in a very good position to defend
itself against our Nicholas the First, who's like, oh, yeah, well,
(04:14):
I'm going to invade part of your Ottoman Empire, and
I'm going to invade what's in modern day Romania, Moldavia
and Wallachia, which is where Dracula is from. And he invaded,
and again the Ottoman Empire, I think they were known
as the sick man of Europe. There was not a
lot they can do about it. So France and Britain
came to their aid, and not for any necessarily altruistic reason,
(04:37):
but because they were not happy with the idea of
Russian expanding itself into Europe and in particular getting a
foothold in the Mediterranean. And when they set up shop
in Wallachia and Moldavia, they were on the Danube, which
would take them straight to the Mediterranean. So France and
(04:57):
Britain became concerned and they're like, well, back you up,
Ottoman Empire.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, it's boy. The more things changed, the more they
say the same.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, it's true. Man.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
It's crazy when you see this stuff that happened back
in the eighteen fifties and you can draw sort of
a straight line to the things that happened today in
Russian expansion. It's just really interesting stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
But all that to say is that what is now,
like you said, modern day Romania. He now occupied France
and Britain got their hackles up. They sent warships to
the Black Sea in eighteen fifty three, declared war on
Russian in eighteen fifty four, and the first big you know,
(05:37):
this could have ended at all, The first big major
defeat against that English and French alliance was at Odessa.
They're in the Black Sea and Czar Nicholas withdrew basically
that land he had occupied. He pulled back out in
July of eighteen fifty four, and that could have been
the end of it. But the Frenchies and the Brits said,
you know what, now we want to punish them for
(06:00):
their aggression. So we're going to go on the offensive.
And that turned out to be a bit of a boondoggle.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
It did. Nations do that kind of thing though, when,
especially when they soundly defeat an expansionist nation, they often
want to make an example of be like, don't try
that again. This is not like completely out of left field,
but yeah, the way it turned out was not great.
And they chose to invade Russia by landing on the
Crimean Peninsula. And they chose Crimea for a couple of reasons.
(06:30):
One it's where Russia's naval ships were stationed that they
would use to take over the Mediterranean if they could
get a foothold there. And then two, they couldn't make
it to mainland Russia because Germany was neutral at the time.
They were the Austro Prussian I guess Kingdom. They're like,
(06:51):
you can't send your troops through here to get to Russia.
They're like, okay, we'll go attack Crimea. And then there
was one other thing about Crimea, chuck. It offered a
way to attack navally, which is what the Brits favored,
and it also offered, at the same time a way
to attack on land, which is what the French preferred,
and so surf and turf exactly. It was the surf
(07:13):
and turf strategy. And yeah, the Crimean Peninsula served all
of those purposes.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, which was mainland Ukraine by the way. So I
guess the first battle, or oh, not the first battle.
I guess this would be the second battle we're talking about,
and the one that really sets up the story of
the Charge of the Light Brigade is the siege of
You know, in California, there's a town called Sebastopol with
a B.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, my aunt lives there in Sebastopol.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
H It's quite nice. It is lovely wooded northern California. Yes,
I've been there myself.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Okay, but this is with a V.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And I don't know if it's probably not pronounced Sebastopol.
It's probably Sebastopole, would be my guess.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Oh you know what, I've never heard anybody say it
like that, but I'll bet you're right. I'll bet a
bunch of Ukrainians just stood up and went.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, I wonder if there was any connection there too.
I was going to look that up.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Surely there's got to be a heck of a coincidence.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Somebody just put a bunch of letters together. They're like
Sebastopol also.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
The name of a good solo album by j Ferrar
of Uncle Tuplo and Sunbolt.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Is Sebastopol nice with a B or a V with
a b Okay, wait, did you say B or V
because they rhyme.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
B is in boy. Do we need to get back
to the topic at hand, V as in boy? All right,
it's September eighteen fifty four. We've got a little over
sixty thousand troops total from this alliance, thirty thousand from
the French, about twenty six thousand British troops and about
forty five hundred Turks. They land on the coast of
(08:50):
Crimea and start to hike inland for the Turf section
thirty miles in and that port city of Sebastpol is
where they're headed.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, so that's I think that's where the Russians had
their there that navy that they would invade the Mediterranean with,
and the Russian commander was again named Prince Alexander Sergeyevich Menschikov.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Great name. Russians have great names.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Right, there was I think an initial skirmish after they
landed at Kalameda Bay, but it didn't really count as
the first battle. The first battle was the Battle of
the Alma River, and that's where Menschikov decided like, okay,
this is where we're going to start to take on
this alliance force. And they It was a pretty serious battle.
I think both sides lost many thousands of men, but
(09:42):
the Brits and the French were not turned back. The
Russians retreated instead.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
That's right, And this is when a really interesting decision
comes about. They were worried that there were more Russian
armies coming in to that, you know, port city to
help defend their navy, guess, and so they said, all right,
here's what we're going to do. We're going to do
the old hook and ladder and we're going to take
a wide path around the city so we can attack
(10:09):
from the south. What they didn't know was that at
that time it was very poorly defended there. So if
they would have if they would have just kept charging forward,
it probably would have been over pretty quickly. But since
they took the long way around, which they thought was
a decent strategy, that gave the Russians the chance to
refortify basically and stock up with men and supplies.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, and they couldn't have known that the city wasn't
very well defended, but everybody had fled and apparently they
sunk a bunch of ships in the harbor to keep
the British navy from being able to land there.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, but in part of war trying to know that stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yes, and ironically you would use the light Brigade for
that kind of stuff, to scout and spy and report back.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Okay. So when you said they couldn't have known, what
you really meant was they did no because they didn't
do it good.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
That's yes, Yes, Okay, you're right. So for the siege
of Sevestopol, not just the Russians set up and refortified
the city. The British basically regrouped and they settled at
a port town called Balaklava, and it's about ten miles
south of Sevastopol. And like you said, that's where the
(11:23):
head gear comes from, or the name of it, because
it actually doesn't just come from that town, it comes
from this actual battle that happened there. So there's a
road between Balaklava and Sevastopol, and they are because they're connected.
Both sides need that for supplies, right, Yeah, So it's
(11:43):
a really strategically important road. And before the Brits could
try to take the road or secure it, the Russians
decided to and they made a really risky move. They
took some of their troops who were battling because by
this time the Brits and the French were now laying
siege to Sevastopol and the Russians were fighting them off.
(12:05):
And the Russians took some of their troops and moved
them around the Siegers and put them squarely between the
Alliance forces sieging Sevastopol and the Alliance forces at Balaklava
on the road to try to take the road. It
was a risky move, but it was also what they
had to do to kind of cut the Brits off,
(12:26):
the sieging Brits off from supplies ten miles south at Balaklava.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
That's right. So they attack these artillery positions of the
Allieds on the hills outside of Balaklava. It turned into
a pretty chaotic battle scene there, and the Russians did
pretty good at first. They had a lot of cavalry.
They had a pretty substantial infantry there and they captured
(12:54):
these gun positions, these Turkish and British gun positions on
that hilltop and this is a place called Cosway Heights.
They tried next to take another town called Catechuoy, and
that was basically the last the last stop before you
got to Balaklava. But this is where the Scots come in.
The legendary ninety third Sutherland Highlanders wearing kilts with swords
(13:18):
and rifles underwear. Yeah, I mean that's the most you know,
intimidating part of all of this.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
They were led by Major General Sir Colin Campbell, and
he had a pretty good idea to defeat these guys
and it worked.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah. Normally the Highlanders would form a square of four rows, right,
and you're able to defend your flank a lot easier.
There's less men exposed in steag Campbell said we're going
to form two lines, and they were like this is
mind blowing. So there were more men exposed, but they
were able to shoot further across, right.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, just bullets basically.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, exactly. And it turned out that the the Highlanders
were successful in attacking the Russian cavalry. I'm sorry. The
Highlanders were standing the ground to defend Katakhoi, and it
was the Russian cavalry that was rushing at them. The
Highlanders fired on them. There was a volley of of
musket or bullets, I guess, and the Russians were like,
(14:17):
oh no, and they turned left. And when they turned left,
they exposed their flank, and the Highlanders fired again and
really just messed the Russian cavalry up and just caused
disarray and they had to retreat. So it was a
really good stand, so much so that like these guys,
like you said, they're legendary now in part because of
this battle. And I guess I should probably say, I
(14:39):
think i'm am I saying cavalry cavalry.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
I think you're probably accidentally saying cavalry, which I do
all the time too. But that's where Jesus was crucified, right.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Right, So cavalry is the horseback troops.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
They should really have named those things two completely different
sounding yes, exactly, very confusing. And the only reason I
even know is because there's a lot of old hymns,
church hymns that I sang that that you sing about cavalry.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Oh yeah, I know all about that.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah. Did you sing hymns.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Not about cavalry? The Catholics don't pay attention to that
for some reason.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
You know.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
I just didn't know how much Catholics sang in church.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Oh dude, I don't even know if you can call
it singing unless it's kind of like a Reformists seventies
hippie church. It's chanting, okay, and it scares the Jesus
out of non Catholics who like, go with a friend
to a Catholic mass. It freaks people out.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I got you because in Baptist churches it was just
the big, bombastic sort of you know, hymnal songs. Sure, sure, yeah,
maybe maybe more fun, but I don't know than chanting. Yeah,
but I never chanted.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Well, you used to try it sometime.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
All right, I'll give it a shot. Where do we
leave that The Scott's the Highlanders won And did you
did you say that that's where we got the term
the thin red line.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
No, No, I didn't mention that.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah. So you know, we talked about this being one
of the first major wars where there was journalism going on,
and those a guy named William Howard Russell.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Was he Irish, I think, yeah, he was an Irish correspondent.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, so he was riding from the front lines and
in the Times he described the line of men that
you know, those two lines of men and their brick
red coats. Is the a thin red streak tipped with
steel and that eventually morphed into the Thin Red Line,
which is another weird sort of thing that came out
of this war.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, and another really hardcore war movie, too, Good One
or no, I'm thinking of Big Red One.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
No, no, no, The Thin Red Line was Terrence Mallock. They're
both the war movies.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Okay, but I was thinking of the is it Big
Red One?
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:54):
That was that was good too. Mark Hamill and the
guy from Revenge of the Nerds.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yeah, I think Mark Hamill gets his testicles own off
by a grenade.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Somebody does. I think? I said before that was the
first rated movie I saw on at theater, And yeah,
that was it. Mark Hamill's testicles.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I believe it was. But I could just be making
that part up.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I gotcha.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Hey, So one more thing before we go to break,
because I can sense that coming on. This is the
this is the first war as far as I know where.
Some soldiers' wives traveled with them to the front and
basically like set up a household there. It was a
very bizarre setup, and they were very unhappy there because
(17:36):
it was not a fun place to be. Yeah, but
they were there to support their husbands. A lot of
them were.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Wow, man crime me and work who knew? Yeah, all right,
well we'll be right back right.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yes, all right, softly jaw.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Soft, all right. So I feel like we've kind of
been dancing around this whole light brigade thing, and for
a long time, until I started researching this for this episode,
I just assumed light as in like a bright light
or something like that.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Oh interesting, Okay, it makes way.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
More sense now that what you're talking about is a
light brigade.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Right, like weight weight wise sort of, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Rather than as opposed to a heavy brigade, both of
which are part of the cavalry that the Brits and
the French used at the time. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And when I said weight wise, I meant, you know,
lighter horses, faster horses, presumably lighter men on those horses.
I imagine it was just a bunch of people that were
fleet to poot and horses that were fleet of hoof.
Their job if you were a light brigade was to
ride very quickly across the battlefield, to move places with
(19:10):
great speed, sometimes to deliver battle orders with great speed.
The heavy brigade is exactly what you would think. Bigger horses,
bigger men, close combat, breaking through enemy lines, kind of
kicking button, taking names.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Yeah, and so like when the heavy brigade broke up
the enemy line is like the enemy was retreating, you'd
send in the light brigade, who would chase the enemy
down and slash them with their swords and stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Right, yeah, they probably had better hair in the light brigades.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
They probably did, you.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Know, like the handsome like all right, now all the
rough stuff's done, get us in here a fleet.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Horses with their habsburg chins.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Oh totally.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
So there was in addition to the charge of the
light brigade at this So we're at the Battle of
Balaklava still, this is where all of this happens. Right,
Remember that the Highlanders already turned back the Russian caval once.
Now that heavy brigade is actually sent in. Their charge
of the heavy heavy brigade came before the charge of
(20:10):
the light Brigade, and I think it was pretty effective
when they when they hit up the Russians. I think
there were eight hundred horsemen in the heavy brigade running
into three thousand Russians in the Russian line.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, but it's the heavy brigade, so they did a
lot of damage the Russian cavalry. Now it's in my head.
They kind of scrambled to get out of there. And
here's where we get to a point where there's a
sort of a fateful, confusing order that brings us to
the actual Light Brigade story. And we're going to introduce
(20:47):
some people here, none of whom seem to be very
competent at warring. So basically people like you and I
would have been.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, imagine if we were rich and said I want
to be a lieutenant. I'm going to pay to be
a lieutenant in the Army of command soldiers.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
That was the thing.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
That's exactly what these men had done. With the exception
of Lord Raglan, he had battle experience. He had fought
Napoleon at Waterloo. He lost an arm in that battle,
so he was a war hero. But he was twenty
five when that happened, and by this time he was
sixty five, a little dotty maybe he apparently remember there
(21:29):
was a French English alliance that was battling the Russians.
But when he would refer to the French, say strategically
they were talking about what the French were doing, he'd
refer to them as the enemy. That was very confusing.
And this battle, the Battle of Balaklava, was the first
time that he had ever led, like commanded men in battle.
(21:51):
Up to that point, he'd been subordinate. This was the
first time he was the one calling the shots for
the battle, so he had the most experience, and this
was the first time he was.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Doing yeah, for sure. So he gets up on this
high about a six hundred foot high ridge, so he's
got a great view of the battlefield. The guys down
there don't have any kind of view at all. So
the orders are going to be getting maybe a little
bit confusing because they can't really see what's going on,
like Raglan can. He's also pretty far away, so it
(22:23):
takes twenty minutes to get even with the light Horse brigade, Yeah,
or the light Runner who will meet in a minute too.
Who hates everybody that's involved here as it turns out
it takes him about twenty minutes to get there and
deliver an order, and you know, presumably a little bit
of time to sort of suss that out, and then
another twenty minutes to come back. So it's probably like
forty minutes to an hour for this whole exchange of
(22:46):
information to take place. And what Raglin is trying to
do is trying to stop the enemy from taking away
these heavy guns that they had captured at that Causeway
Heights battle, and so he sends the following order. Lord
Ragland wishes the cavalry to advance rapidly to the front,
(23:06):
follow the enemy and try to prevent the enemy carrying
away the guns. Troup horse artillery may accompany French cavalry
as on your left immediate. Okay, a little vague, that's
that's the message. A little bit vague.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, So that's problem one. It's vague. Problem two is,
like you said, Ragland's up six hundred feet with a
bird's eye view of everything going on, and the two
men who received this order, the Earl of Luken George Bingham,
and the Earl of Cardigan, James Brudenell, they're down in
one of the valleys, so they can't see these captured
(23:44):
guns that Ragland's talking about. And when this man who
you said hated everybody, showed up, Captain Lewis Nolan, they're like, wait,
what's going on? What are you talking about? And before
we get into that, we should probably talk a little
bit about Bingham and bruden because we kind of disparaged
them a little bit, and I think we should explain why.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, I mean you mentioned being able to pay for
a position. That's what both of these guys did. They
paid for this position of leading these men. They were
both wealthy gentlemen. I believe Brudenelle, the Earl of Cardigan,
was described at one point as brave, handsome, bad tempered,
and brainless. And these guys were brothers in law who
(24:26):
hated each other's guts. So Cardigan was a subordinate to
Lucan and didn't like being under his command. And like
you said, this guy Nolan didn't like either one of them.
He said, and these are quotes he said, we call
Lucan the cautious ass and Lord Cardigan the dangerous ass.
And Lord Cardigan has as much brains as his boot.
So no respect seemingly is happening for these dudes down
(24:50):
there leading these charges.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
No one other thing that balaklava hedgear came out of
this battle. So did the Cardigan sweater.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Now don't know whether or not it is legit. I
are eighteen to believe.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Totally get that. I totally get that. This is one
of those things where it's like, no, I'm joking, this
is true. It's named after James Brudenell, the Earl of Cardigan,
I think the seventh Earl of Cardigan.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Because I almost looked that up, but I just ran
out of time because we're recording early and I had
a hunch, but I didn't get to it. So you're
not pulling my my ski.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Rope, No, your rope trauma rope, my rope drama.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
All right, Well, another little crimean warfact. I like that.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
And one other thing about George Bingham, the Earl of Luken.
He made his money by as a landlord for poor
Irish tenant farmers. Yeah, and then would evict them and
send them to the poorhouse when they couldn't pay rent.
He was not a good guy at all, but that's
how he became wealthy enough to buy his position as
a commander of the brigade the cavalry.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
I guess, right, all right, so no one delivers this order. He's, like,
we said, a pretty fast rider on that horse. He
gets there pretty quickly. We don't know. This is where
things get a little confusing. We don't know if he
had other motives because he didn't like these guys. He
also was in the light brigade and he wanted to
see some action and at that Battle of the Alma
(26:12):
River didn't get any action. And I think he was
even frustrated because Lucan had orders to dispatch the light brigade.
It didn't take it. Like these guys wanted to see action,
they wanted to be heroes on the battlefield. So he
gets down there to deliver this message. They're looking around,
going a light what guns are you talking about? And
(26:33):
he basically just says over there, He points at the
end of the valley and said, there, my lord, is
your enemy. These there are your guns, which was not
the correct direction to point.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
No, he was pointing at a heavily fortified Russian gun
position right there are apparently like thirty or forty cannons there.
And what again Raglan was talking about were some poorly
defended captured artillery guns elsewhere, right, I think they were
on one of the sides. So when he pointed, he
(27:05):
was pointing to the center of three heavily fortified Russian
positions on a I think a ridge overlooking a valley,
and basically said, Raglan is telling you to charge the lightpergade.
This isn't even a job for a lightpergate, but you
and the lightpergate are supposed to charge straight to those
Russian guns in the middle of this horribly dangerous place
(27:29):
for you guys to be. Let's go.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
That's right. And we don't know why he did that.
We don't know if he was confused. We didn't know
if he was doing it on purpose because he hated
these guys. We don't know if he was doing it
on purpose because he wanted that action. We don't know
all this stuff. Because the guy who got the message
wrong was one of the first people killed during this charge,
which is not funny. I'm not laughing, but it's just
(27:54):
I mean, this was known as sort of a war
folly by the end of it, even though as we'll see,
it didn't turn out to be a complete loss.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
No, I know, we haven't gotten to the Light Brigade,
the actual charge yet, but should we take a break.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Now, Yeah, I think it fits the act structure.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Sorry everybody, we'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Stuffing jaw stoff you.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
All right. So now we're finally at the light Brigade charge.
It was not supposed to happen that way. Again, it
was a misunderstood or misdelivered at least order and Lucan
and Cardigan didn't know they had six hundred seventy cavalrymen
in this light brigade. One of the most famous blunders
(29:06):
in military history. They said basically, all right, let's do
this thing, and they went charging through what was known
as the Valley of Death.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, and there was no one there who was like, oh, okay,
that's this is a good idea, let's do this. But
they didn't question the orders. So when they entered this
Valley of Death, that's why I think Tennyson called it
later right, Yeah, they were again charging right for Russian
cannon straight ahead, and then there were Russian artillery positions
(29:35):
on either side, and they're running right through this and
right when they start riding through the the this Valley
of Death, they just start getting fired upon. They're fired
upon from all three directions, although apparently not all at
the same time, but still like this was a it
was essentially a suicide mission that they'd just been sent
(29:56):
on and it just went badly immediate.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, they were people that survived it, and they said
that limbs were being shot off, heads were being shot off,
Horses were running around without people on them, or with
just bodies on them, without heads. There was so much smoke.
Apparently one soldier said it was like riding into the
mouth of a volcano. That the heavy brigade it was
(30:21):
going so badly. The heavy brigade was supposed to follow.
It was kind of reversed, I guess, and Lucan said, no,
he pulled those orders back and pulled back the heavy
brigade even.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
He said, they have sacrificed the light brigade. That shall
not have the heavy if I can help it. Yeah,
So what's crazy about this is these six hundred and
seventy five riders riding into three thousand ish Russians and
their cannons. Most of them, the majority of them made it.
They made it to these Russian lines and they broke
(30:53):
them up. They actually at least the Russian artillery position
they were charging toward in the center. Yeah, they captured that.
They actually managed to force the Russian soldiers to retreat
from that, and so they captured those guns. That's insane
that that happened like this should have there should have
(31:16):
been no one alive, and yet they actually fulfilled this
nutsoe mission that should have never happened in the first
place because it was a miscommunication.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah, and they ended up getting all three of those
positions because they went back into position. The light brigade
took out one of those positions, which, by the way,
I don't know if we made it clear, but one
of those positions was the original order, which I guess
they eventually got to, right, they just did it out
of order. And then the other one was destroyed by
a French light cavalry unit called the African Hunters or
(31:49):
the how would you pronounce that? Very nice?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Thanks. It took three years of French in high school.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Hey, it's been paying off for eighteen years for us.
So French from you, little German for me and everything
else mispronounced.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Oh well, don't forget your Italian accent though. Well, sure
we have the whole of Europe covered, yeah, most of it.
So when the Lpergate charged through this Valley of death
and broke up the Russian artilleries and the French broke
up another one. I think there was actually one left still,
they had to ride back and were being fired upon
(32:25):
by that remaining one too, So they had to ride
back from the valley to get to where they started back,
you know, to safety again. And when they got back
they found that of the six hundred and seventy members
of the Lpergate who undertook this charge, one hundred and
ten were killed, one hundred and sixty were wounded, three
hundred and seventy five horses were killed, so six hundred
(32:47):
and seventy of the members, more than half of them
lost their horse. And apparently some of the men told
Cardigan that they were ready to go again.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, I guess it was, uh, you know, they felt
like they did good work, they wanted to do more.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I mean, I can't imagine if you thought you were
going on a suicide mission and it actually works out
and you made it back alive. I'm sure you were
invigorated as probably under selling it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah, but guys like you and I would have said,
how about we don't do that again.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
We would have been like, wait, are you sure that's
what he said, because this doesn't make any sense. Let's
talk this through.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
All right. So William Howard Russell is riding about this
thing like we talked about. He is the one that
ends up and he did some beautiful riding as far
as that kind of stuff goes, But he isn't the
one who ended up inspiring Tennyson's poem. Maybe i'll read
this last line at least it's a pretty good example. Yeah,
at the distance of twelve hundred yards, the whole line
(33:45):
of the enemy belched forth from thirty iron mouths, a
flood of smoke and flame, through which hissed the deadly balls.
Their flight was marked by instant gaps in our ranks,
by dead men and horses, by steeds flying wounded or
riderless across the plane.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
That's pretty good reporting.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Yeah, pretty good stuff.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
So I think you mentioned before that the charge of
the light brigade is viewed as an enormous military blunder.
It's still very much taught in schools as like what
not to do. It's also I think it's also shorthand
among military people as like for any senseless waste of soldiers'
(34:24):
lives by higher up calling higher ups, calling bad shots.
But it's also revered as an incredibly brave, courageous act.
And that's what celebrated, not not the fact that they
even were successful. That's not the most celebrated fact. It
was that these men just basically put their nose down
(34:45):
and did what they had to do. However you feel
about that, that's essentially what the what the poem celebrates
most of all.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yeah, which was when he was Poet Laureate of England
in eight fifty I think think it was about six
weeks after that battle is when he published The Charge
of the Light Brigade and the Examiner initially, yeah, should
we read this last the second stanza.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, that's the most famous of all of them.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Why don't you take this one?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
I think you should?
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Okay, forward the light Brigade. Was there a man dismayed,
not though the soldier knew someone had blundered theirs, not
to make reply their's, not to reason why theirs, but
to do and die into the valley of death rode
the six hundred.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, and apparently Tennyson recorded himself reading this on a
wax cylinder, And there's places on the internet, including Amazing Tube,
I believe, where you can hear it. And it bears
an uncanny resemblance to that remember that doll in the
Doll's episode the Old Time he talking doll from the
(35:56):
nineteenth century. It sounds a little bit like that. But
even getting past that, he I don't think he does
a very good job reading it. It's the worst reading
I've heard of that ever.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
So you're saying my reading is better than Tennyson's own.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
I am it is.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Oh wow, yeah, so way to go, man, who I
appreciate that. Maybe I should be Poet Laureate Reader of England.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I've been secretly lobbying for you to be named Poet
Laureate of the US for years now.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
My high school had a poet laureate. Who was it,
Natasha Trethaway if I'm not mistaken. Wow, she was there
when I was there. Pretty cool stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
It's impressive you remember that.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, I think she might have been in my grade, So,
yeah she was. Who knows, I might have had English
class with her for all I know. So there was
also from Tennyson, the charge of the heavy Brigade at
ballack Lava. It was years after the war though, and
this was and this is kind of where we end
the story is British war veterans had a very hard
(37:00):
time after this in a lot of cases, and there
were many efforts to try and raise money and raise
awareness for that that a lot of them went to
poorhouses and weren't cared for. And this poem was written
years later to try and raise money for these war
veterans along with Kipling.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Right, Kipling wrote another one, the Last of the Light Brigade,
that actually commemorates the charge of the Heavy Brigade at
Balaklava and Tennyson's writing of it, and Tennyson actually makes
an appearance in this Kipling poem, but both of them
were basically for the same reason to call attention to
the fact that these Crimean war veterans had just been
(37:37):
totally abandoned by their nations and were living in total
poverty in a lot of cases. And what's really said
is that a fundraising effort that Tennyson led thanks to
his poem and his fame too, I mean, like he
was a very famous person. Yeah, at this time, they
were only able to collect twenty four pounds.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
That can't can't have been too much even back then. No,
there were a couple of movies. There was one from
nineteen thirty six, The Charge of the Light Brigade with
Errol Flynn and Olivia de Hablind.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
And Olivia to Hablin had her breakthrough role in Airport
seventy seven years later.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Yeah, that's what she's known for. It was a love
triangle movie about British British soldiers that takes place, you know,
sort of around this fatal charge. And then another one
from sixty eight, right.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, it's called The Charge of the Lightpergade. But this
one is a satires, satirizing the British aristocracy, especially in
the Victorian Age, essentially just hungering for war so they
could get their own glory again, buying offices or ranks
in the military. And it was John Gielgood as Lord Cardigan.
(38:50):
And yeah, I haven't seen.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
It, Vanessa Redgrave like, what a cast.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah, it's quite quite a cast. Every time I see
John Gielgood or hear his name, I replace his name
with doctor feel Good the Motley Crue song. He's the
one they called John, Sir John Gielgod. You have to
add this, sir.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
He's the one they call Sir John giel Good.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
There it is. He's the one that makes it feel
all right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
If you're watching Arthur, that.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Is was he in? That was he the butler?
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah, I think he want to Oscar for that role
for the butler.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, that's impressive.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
He was great and this is one of my favorite
movies growing up still is awesome.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Well, that's the charge of the lipergade everybody, that's right,
Chuck said, that's right. So it's time for listener mail.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Hey guys, long story short, I've been listening for four
plus years, and, as many others say, you to have
no idea how much appreciation your fan base has for
you writing this. I was scouring through old episodes. I
came acrossing up where you two disagreed on the subject.
I can't remember what it was, but you kept the
animated conversation going for a few minutes. It was a
subtle reminder that the two of you just like anybody
(40:01):
else or friends and can totally have disagreements or different opinions.
But let's have a little fun. Can you share an
example of when you disagreed with the other but rather
than voice it on the air, you kept it to yourself.
Or are there any topics where you had a disagreement
and you cut it out? That is warmly from Warner
Finn ps, Mom and Dad. I'll go ahead and answer
(40:23):
for my part in that. I don't think we've ever
had a disagreement that we've like off cut out of
the episode that I can think of.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
No, we almost, Yeah, we leave those in. I can't
think of one either.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Yeah, and I can't think of I mean, there's the
famous you know, watering the lawns and things like that
from past episodes. But I mean, I'm sure there's lots
of little things I might disagree on it in the
moment that I keep to myself that just aren't a
big deal, and I don't bring them up because it's
just not worth mentioning in a show episode.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah, you want to keep the show going. Plus Also,
I mean, you can only correct one another so often
before you start seeming like a know it all or whatever,
or it just is interruptive most of the time. It
just doesn't matter. Like chassis. You remember you're saying chassis, right,
and I didn't correct you, man, it just didn't matter,
you know.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Yeah, exactly, and uh yeah, I think that sums it
up best. We uh and on just big stuff philosophically,
we're pretty much aligned as humans and friends. So like,
that's why there's never any big stuff is because we
both kind of park our cars in the same garage.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
It would be the most part you much different podcast
if we if we didn't see eye to eye generally
on the big stuff.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
I think yeah, And I mean, I think most of
the disagreements are like you didn't like that movie that
kind of stuff, right, and who cares about that?
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah? Or you've never had pizza rolls.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, Like I don't like pickles and mustard, And even
though you're determined to you, it's me. There's a pickle
and a mustard.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
I might like, Yeah, no, I finally accepted both. Okay,
I've accepted it that you don't like pickles.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
It's okay, Well that's recent because last week you tried
to feed me a pickle mustard samwich.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
It's just from yesterday. I really gave a lot of
thought to it in the sauna. Okay, good, and yeah,
I'm like, you just didn't like pickles.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
I wonder what you were thinking about that day?
Speaker 2 (42:17):
That was it?
Speaker 3 (42:18):
All right?
Speaker 2 (42:19):
All right? Who was that from?
Speaker 1 (42:21):
That was from Warner Fenn in Los Angeles. Oh, that's it.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
You're gonna see something else, Thanks a lot, Warner.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
I was, but I stopped myself.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
See how that happened. Were you gonna correct me or something?
Speaker 1 (42:33):
No, not at all. I'll tell you.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Okay, Thanks a lot Warner. That was a really great email.
It reminds me of the kind of questions we get
at the Q and A we do at our live shows,
which we have coming up. I think we're probably in
the middle of them right now when this comes out.
That's right, or we're gonna be other places too, So
you can find out where we're gonna be by going
to Stuffishould Know dot com and clicking on the on
tour button. And in the meantime, if you want to
(42:56):
send us an email like Warner did, you can send
it to stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you
Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
Chuck and Jerry's here too, just cracking us up. And
this is stuff you should know.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
That's right. Kind of a rare detailed war battle episode.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yeah, we don't do a lot of war stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, a little bit here and there.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
A little here there. Yeah, but usually it's like some
crazy commando story like you're right, you know, and usually
where the Nazis are getting beat up because we love
that narrative.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yeah, we usually don't like, say, hey, let's dive into
some specific battles of the Crimean War.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Right, But for all of you fans of the Crimean
War who didn't look at the title, you're like, oh,
I know what this one's about. Of course, it's about
the Charge of the Light Brigade. And if you were
an English student, sorry and English student and you studied poetry,
you're probably familiar with the poem The Charge of the
(01:07):
Light Brigade by Alfred Kama Lord Tennyson. I think you're
supposed to say the comm out lab from what I understand, Yeah,
like the colon, but that was a real deal that
really happened, and it's a really complicated, complex story that's
also extremely fascinating and totally nuts at the end.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, So I guess we should probably set up a
little bit about just what the Crimean War was.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, So the Crimean War was over the course of
a few years from eighteen fifty three to fifty six.
It was in Europe, fought between Russia and Britain, France,
and Turkey, which was part of the Ottoman Empire. Turkey
was that is, and it was known for a lot
of things. There were some you know, interesting people that
came out of this ended up being super famous, and
(01:57):
a lot of lives lost, but notably, most of the
half a million lives lost, like maybe as many as
seventy five percent died from disease and things like that
instead of on the battlefield.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, which is terrible. That was a reason that two
now famous women showed up to help. One was Florence Nightingale,
who was very well known as the Lady with the Lamp.
She showed up and started using like evidence based treatments
and apparently the mortality rate at these horrible field hospitals
(02:29):
went from forty one percent when she showed up down
to two percent at the end of the war. It's
pretty impressive. And then there's a less well known woman
named Mary Secole who was born in Jamaica. She was
mixed race, and she appealed to be sent to the
Crimean Front, like Florence Nightingale, was was turned down. So
she went herself and showed up and made huge, huge
(02:53):
gains and saving lives there as well.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, and it was the first big war covered by
the press. Notably, Tolstoy got to start there, you know,
writing about the you know, dispatches from the front basically, right.
It's also weirdly where the black lava comes from. That,
you know, the what we in America might call a
(03:16):
ski mask or a scary mask, or a scary mask
or a cat burglar mask, it comes from here. So
lots of sort of little weird things. And obviously, like
you mentioned the Charge of the Light Brigade, the very
famous poem. But the whole thing started over a religious
argument basically in the Ottoman Empire, wherein for several years
(03:36):
the French Catholics were battling it out with the Russian
Orthodox Church over who controlled the holy sites the Christian
holy sites within the Ottoman Empire, which really ticked off
Zar Nicholas the First.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, so he also we should say the Ottoman Empire
was very powerful for a while, but we're joining them
at the twilight, maybe even the end of their empire,
which I think broke up in World War One, and
this is about sixty years before that. So the Ottoman
Empire was not in a very good position to defend
itself against our Nicholas the First, who's like, oh, yeah, well,
(04:14):
I'm going to invade part of your Ottoman Empire, and
I'm going to invade what's in modern day Romania, Moldavia
and Wallachia, which is where Dracula is from. And he invaded,
and again the Ottoman Empire, I think they were known
as the sick man of Europe. There was not a
lot they can do about it. So France and Britain
came to their aid, and not for any necessarily altruistic reason,
(04:37):
but because they were not happy with the idea of
Russian expanding itself into Europe and in particular getting a
foothold in the Mediterranean. And when they set up shop
in Wallachia and Moldavia, they were on the Danube, which
would take them straight to the Mediterranean. So France and
(04:57):
Britain became concerned and they're like, well, back you up,
Ottoman Empire.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, it's boy. The more things changed, the more they
say the same.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, it's true. Man.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
It's crazy when you see this stuff that happened back
in the eighteen fifties and you can draw sort of
a straight line to the things that happened today in
Russian expansion. It's just really interesting stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
But all that to say is that what is now,
like you said, modern day Romania. He now occupied France
and Britain got their hackles up. They sent warships to
the Black Sea in eighteen fifty three, declared war on
Russian in eighteen fifty four, and the first big you know,
(05:37):
this could have ended at all, The first big major
defeat against that English and French alliance was at Odessa.
They're in the Black Sea and Czar Nicholas withdrew basically
that land he had occupied. He pulled back out in
July of eighteen fifty four, and that could have been
the end of it. But the Frenchies and the Brits said,
you know what, now we want to punish them for
(06:00):
their aggression. So we're going to go on the offensive.
And that turned out to be a bit of a boondoggle.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
It did. Nations do that kind of thing though, when,
especially when they soundly defeat an expansionist nation, they often
want to make an example of be like, don't try
that again. This is not like completely out of left field,
but yeah, the way it turned out was not great.
And they chose to invade Russia by landing on the
Crimean Peninsula. And they chose Crimea for a couple of reasons.
(06:30):
One it's where Russia's naval ships were stationed that they
would use to take over the Mediterranean if they could
get a foothold there. And then two, they couldn't make
it to mainland Russia because Germany was neutral at the time.
They were the Austro Prussian I guess Kingdom. They're like,
(06:51):
you can't send your troops through here to get to Russia.
They're like, okay, we'll go attack Crimea. And then there
was one other thing about Crimea, chuck. It offered a
way to attack navally, which is what the Brits favored,
and it also offered, at the same time a way
to attack on land, which is what the French preferred,
and so surf and turf exactly. It was the surf
(07:13):
and turf strategy. And yeah, the Crimean Peninsula served all
of those purposes.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, which was mainland Ukraine by the way. So I
guess the first battle, or oh, not the first battle.
I guess this would be the second battle we're talking about,
and the one that really sets up the story of
the Charge of the Light Brigade is the siege of
You know, in California, there's a town called Sebastopol with
a B.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, my aunt lives there in Sebastopol.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
H It's quite nice. It is lovely wooded northern California. Yes,
I've been there myself.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Okay, but this is with a V.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And I don't know if it's probably not pronounced Sebastopol.
It's probably Sebastopole, would be my guess.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Oh you know what, I've never heard anybody say it
like that, but I'll bet you're right. I'll bet a
bunch of Ukrainians just stood up and went.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, I wonder if there was any connection there too.
I was going to look that up.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Surely there's got to be a heck of a coincidence.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Somebody just put a bunch of letters together. They're like
Sebastopol also.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
The name of a good solo album by j Ferrar
of Uncle Tuplo and Sunbolt.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Is Sebastopol nice with a B or a V with
a b Okay, wait, did you say B or V
because they rhyme.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
B is in boy. Do we need to get back
to the topic at hand, V as in boy? All right,
it's September eighteen fifty four. We've got a little over
sixty thousand troops total from this alliance, thirty thousand from
the French, about twenty six thousand British troops and about
forty five hundred Turks. They land on the coast of
(08:50):
Crimea and start to hike inland for the Turf section
thirty miles in and that port city of Sebastpol is
where they're headed.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, so that's I think that's where the Russians had
their there that navy that they would invade the Mediterranean with,
and the Russian commander was again named Prince Alexander Sergeyevich Menschikov.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Great name. Russians have great names.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Right, there was I think an initial skirmish after they
landed at Kalameda Bay, but it didn't really count as
the first battle. The first battle was the Battle of
the Alma River, and that's where Menschikov decided like, okay,
this is where we're going to start to take on
this alliance force. And they It was a pretty serious battle.
I think both sides lost many thousands of men, but
(09:42):
the Brits and the French were not turned back. The
Russians retreated instead.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
That's right, And this is when a really interesting decision
comes about. They were worried that there were more Russian
armies coming in to that, you know, port city to
help defend their navy, guess, and so they said, all right,
here's what we're going to do. We're going to do
the old hook and ladder and we're going to take
a wide path around the city so we can attack
(10:09):
from the south. What they didn't know was that at
that time it was very poorly defended there. So if
they would have if they would have just kept charging forward,
it probably would have been over pretty quickly. But since
they took the long way around, which they thought was
a decent strategy, that gave the Russians the chance to
refortify basically and stock up with men and supplies.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, and they couldn't have known that the city wasn't
very well defended, but everybody had fled and apparently they
sunk a bunch of ships in the harbor to keep
the British navy from being able to land there.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, but in part of war trying to know that stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yes, and ironically you would use the light Brigade for
that kind of stuff, to scout and spy and report back.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Okay. So when you said they couldn't have known, what
you really meant was they did no because they didn't
do it good.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
That's yes, Yes, Okay, you're right. So for the siege
of Sevestopol, not just the Russians set up and refortified
the city. The British basically regrouped and they settled at
a port town called Balaklava, and it's about ten miles
south of Sevastopol. And like you said, that's where the
(11:23):
head gear comes from, or the name of it, because
it actually doesn't just come from that town, it comes
from this actual battle that happened there. So there's a
road between Balaklava and Sevastopol, and they are because they're connected.
Both sides need that for supplies, right, Yeah, So it's
(11:43):
a really strategically important road. And before the Brits could
try to take the road or secure it, the Russians
decided to and they made a really risky move. They
took some of their troops who were battling because by
this time the Brits and the French were now laying
siege to Sevastopol and the Russians were fighting them off.
(12:05):
And the Russians took some of their troops and moved
them around the Siegers and put them squarely between the
Alliance forces sieging Sevastopol and the Alliance forces at Balaklava
on the road to try to take the road. It
was a risky move, but it was also what they
had to do to kind of cut the Brits off,
(12:26):
the sieging Brits off from supplies ten miles south at Balaklava.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
That's right. So they attack these artillery positions of the
Allieds on the hills outside of Balaklava. It turned into
a pretty chaotic battle scene there, and the Russians did
pretty good at first. They had a lot of cavalry.
They had a pretty substantial infantry there and they captured
(12:54):
these gun positions, these Turkish and British gun positions on
that hilltop and this is a place called Cosway Heights.
They tried next to take another town called Catechuoy, and
that was basically the last the last stop before you
got to Balaklava. But this is where the Scots come in.
The legendary ninety third Sutherland Highlanders wearing kilts with swords
(13:18):
and rifles underwear. Yeah, I mean that's the most you know,
intimidating part of all of this.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
They were led by Major General Sir Colin Campbell, and
he had a pretty good idea to defeat these guys
and it worked.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah. Normally the Highlanders would form a square of four rows, right,
and you're able to defend your flank a lot easier.
There's less men exposed in steag Campbell said we're going
to form two lines, and they were like this is
mind blowing. So there were more men exposed, but they
were able to shoot further across, right.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, just bullets basically.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, exactly. And it turned out that the the Highlanders
were successful in attacking the Russian cavalry. I'm sorry. The
Highlanders were standing the ground to defend Katakhoi, and it
was the Russian cavalry that was rushing at them. The
Highlanders fired on them. There was a volley of of
musket or bullets, I guess, and the Russians were like,
(14:17):
oh no, and they turned left. And when they turned left,
they exposed their flank, and the Highlanders fired again and
really just messed the Russian cavalry up and just caused
disarray and they had to retreat. So it was a
really good stand, so much so that like these guys,
like you said, they're legendary now in part because of
this battle. And I guess I should probably say, I
(14:39):
think i'm am I saying cavalry cavalry.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
I think you're probably accidentally saying cavalry, which I do
all the time too. But that's where Jesus was crucified, right.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Right, So cavalry is the horseback troops.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
They should really have named those things two completely different
sounding yes, exactly, very confusing. And the only reason I
even know is because there's a lot of old hymns,
church hymns that I sang that that you sing about cavalry.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Oh yeah, I know all about that.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah. Did you sing hymns.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Not about cavalry? The Catholics don't pay attention to that
for some reason.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
You know.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
I just didn't know how much Catholics sang in church.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Oh dude, I don't even know if you can call
it singing unless it's kind of like a Reformists seventies
hippie church. It's chanting, okay, and it scares the Jesus
out of non Catholics who like, go with a friend
to a Catholic mass. It freaks people out.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I got you because in Baptist churches it was just
the big, bombastic sort of you know, hymnal songs. Sure, sure, yeah,
maybe maybe more fun, but I don't know than chanting. Yeah,
but I never chanted.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Well, you used to try it sometime.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
All right, I'll give it a shot. Where do we
leave that The Scott's the Highlanders won And did you
did you say that that's where we got the term
the thin red line.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
No, No, I didn't mention that.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah. So you know, we talked about this being one
of the first major wars where there was journalism going on,
and those a guy named William Howard Russell.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Was he Irish, I think, yeah, he was an Irish correspondent.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, so he was riding from the front lines and
in the Times he described the line of men that
you know, those two lines of men and their brick
red coats. Is the a thin red streak tipped with
steel and that eventually morphed into the Thin Red Line,
which is another weird sort of thing that came out
of this war.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, and another really hardcore war movie, too, Good One
or no, I'm thinking of Big Red One.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
No, no, no, The Thin Red Line was Terrence Mallock. They're
both the war movies.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Okay, but I was thinking of the is it Big
Red One?
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:54):
That was that was good too. Mark Hamill and the
guy from Revenge of the Nerds.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yeah, I think Mark Hamill gets his testicles own off
by a grenade.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Somebody does. I think? I said before that was the
first rated movie I saw on at theater, And yeah,
that was it. Mark Hamill's testicles.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I believe it was. But I could just be making
that part up.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I gotcha.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Hey, So one more thing before we go to break,
because I can sense that coming on. This is the
this is the first war as far as I know where.
Some soldiers' wives traveled with them to the front and
basically like set up a household there. It was a
very bizarre setup, and they were very unhappy there because
(17:36):
it was not a fun place to be. Yeah, but
they were there to support their husbands. A lot of
them were.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Wow, man crime me and work who knew? Yeah, all right,
well we'll be right back right.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yes, all right, softly jaw.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Soft, all right. So I feel like we've kind of
been dancing around this whole light brigade thing, and for
a long time, until I started researching this for this episode,
I just assumed light as in like a bright light
or something like that.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Oh interesting, Okay, it makes way.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
More sense now that what you're talking about is a
light brigade.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Right, like weight weight wise sort of, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Rather than as opposed to a heavy brigade, both of
which are part of the cavalry that the Brits and
the French used at the time. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And when I said weight wise, I meant, you know,
lighter horses, faster horses, presumably lighter men on those horses.
I imagine it was just a bunch of people that were
fleet to poot and horses that were fleet of hoof.
Their job if you were a light brigade was to
ride very quickly across the battlefield, to move places with
(19:10):
great speed, sometimes to deliver battle orders with great speed.
The heavy brigade is exactly what you would think. Bigger horses,
bigger men, close combat, breaking through enemy lines, kind of
kicking button, taking names.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Yeah, and so like when the heavy brigade broke up
the enemy line is like the enemy was retreating, you'd
send in the light brigade, who would chase the enemy
down and slash them with their swords and stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Right, yeah, they probably had better hair in the light brigades.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
They probably did, you.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Know, like the handsome like all right, now all the
rough stuff's done, get us in here a fleet.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Horses with their habsburg chins.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Oh totally.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
So there was in addition to the charge of the
light brigade at this So we're at the Battle of
Balaklava still, this is where all of this happens. Right,
Remember that the Highlanders already turned back the Russian caval once.
Now that heavy brigade is actually sent in. Their charge
of the heavy heavy brigade came before the charge of
(20:10):
the light Brigade, and I think it was pretty effective
when they when they hit up the Russians. I think
there were eight hundred horsemen in the heavy brigade running
into three thousand Russians in the Russian line.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, but it's the heavy brigade, so they did a
lot of damage the Russian cavalry. Now it's in my head.
They kind of scrambled to get out of there. And
here's where we get to a point where there's a
sort of a fateful, confusing order that brings us to
the actual Light Brigade story. And we're going to introduce
(20:47):
some people here, none of whom seem to be very
competent at warring. So basically people like you and I
would have been.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, imagine if we were rich and said I want
to be a lieutenant. I'm going to pay to be
a lieutenant in the Army of command soldiers.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
That was the thing.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
That's exactly what these men had done. With the exception
of Lord Raglan, he had battle experience. He had fought
Napoleon at Waterloo. He lost an arm in that battle,
so he was a war hero. But he was twenty
five when that happened, and by this time he was
sixty five, a little dotty maybe he apparently remember there
(21:29):
was a French English alliance that was battling the Russians.
But when he would refer to the French, say strategically
they were talking about what the French were doing, he'd
refer to them as the enemy. That was very confusing.
And this battle, the Battle of Balaklava, was the first
time that he had ever led, like commanded men in battle.
(21:51):
Up to that point, he'd been subordinate. This was the
first time he was the one calling the shots for
the battle, so he had the most experience, and this
was the first time he was.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Doing yeah, for sure. So he gets up on this
high about a six hundred foot high ridge, so he's
got a great view of the battlefield. The guys down
there don't have any kind of view at all. So
the orders are going to be getting maybe a little
bit confusing because they can't really see what's going on,
like Raglan can. He's also pretty far away, so it
(22:23):
takes twenty minutes to get even with the light Horse brigade, Yeah,
or the light Runner who will meet in a minute too.
Who hates everybody that's involved here as it turns out
it takes him about twenty minutes to get there and
deliver an order, and you know, presumably a little bit
of time to sort of suss that out, and then
another twenty minutes to come back. So it's probably like
forty minutes to an hour for this whole exchange of
(22:46):
information to take place. And what Raglin is trying to
do is trying to stop the enemy from taking away
these heavy guns that they had captured at that Causeway
Heights battle, and so he sends the following order. Lord
Ragland wishes the cavalry to advance rapidly to the front,
(23:06):
follow the enemy and try to prevent the enemy carrying
away the guns. Troup horse artillery may accompany French cavalry
as on your left immediate. Okay, a little vague, that's
that's the message. A little bit vague.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, So that's problem one. It's vague. Problem two is,
like you said, Ragland's up six hundred feet with a
bird's eye view of everything going on, and the two
men who received this order, the Earl of Luken George Bingham,
and the Earl of Cardigan, James Brudenell, they're down in
one of the valleys, so they can't see these captured
(23:44):
guns that Ragland's talking about. And when this man who
you said hated everybody, showed up, Captain Lewis Nolan, they're like, wait,
what's going on? What are you talking about? And before
we get into that, we should probably talk a little
bit about Bingham and bruden because we kind of disparaged
them a little bit, and I think we should explain why.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, I mean you mentioned being able to pay for
a position. That's what both of these guys did. They
paid for this position of leading these men. They were
both wealthy gentlemen. I believe Brudenelle, the Earl of Cardigan,
was described at one point as brave, handsome, bad tempered,
and brainless. And these guys were brothers in law who
(24:26):
hated each other's guts. So Cardigan was a subordinate to
Lucan and didn't like being under his command. And like
you said, this guy Nolan didn't like either one of them.
He said, and these are quotes he said, we call
Lucan the cautious ass and Lord Cardigan the dangerous ass.
And Lord Cardigan has as much brains as his boot.
So no respect seemingly is happening for these dudes down
(24:50):
there leading these charges.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
No one other thing that balaklava hedgear came out of
this battle. So did the Cardigan sweater.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Now don't know whether or not it is legit. I
are eighteen to believe.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Totally get that. I totally get that. This is one
of those things where it's like, no, I'm joking, this
is true. It's named after James Brudenell, the Earl of Cardigan,
I think the seventh Earl of Cardigan.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Because I almost looked that up, but I just ran
out of time because we're recording early and I had
a hunch, but I didn't get to it. So you're
not pulling my my ski.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Rope, No, your rope trauma rope, my rope drama.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
All right, Well, another little crimean warfact. I like that.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
And one other thing about George Bingham, the Earl of Luken.
He made his money by as a landlord for poor
Irish tenant farmers. Yeah, and then would evict them and
send them to the poorhouse when they couldn't pay rent.
He was not a good guy at all, but that's
how he became wealthy enough to buy his position as
a commander of the brigade the cavalry.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
I guess, right, all right, so no one delivers this order. He's, like,
we said, a pretty fast rider on that horse. He
gets there pretty quickly. We don't know. This is where
things get a little confusing. We don't know if he
had other motives because he didn't like these guys. He
also was in the light brigade and he wanted to
see some action and at that Battle of the Alma
(26:12):
River didn't get any action. And I think he was
even frustrated because Lucan had orders to dispatch the light brigade.
It didn't take it. Like these guys wanted to see action,
they wanted to be heroes on the battlefield. So he
gets down there to deliver this message. They're looking around,
going a light what guns are you talking about? And
(26:33):
he basically just says over there, He points at the
end of the valley and said, there, my lord, is
your enemy. These there are your guns, which was not
the correct direction to point.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
No, he was pointing at a heavily fortified Russian gun
position right there are apparently like thirty or forty cannons there.
And what again Raglan was talking about were some poorly
defended captured artillery guns elsewhere, right, I think they were
on one of the sides. So when he pointed, he
(27:05):
was pointing to the center of three heavily fortified Russian
positions on a I think a ridge overlooking a valley,
and basically said, Raglan is telling you to charge the lightpergade.
This isn't even a job for a lightpergate, but you
and the lightpergate are supposed to charge straight to those
Russian guns in the middle of this horribly dangerous place
(27:29):
for you guys to be. Let's go.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
That's right. And we don't know why he did that.
We don't know if he was confused. We didn't know
if he was doing it on purpose because he hated
these guys. We don't know if he was doing it
on purpose because he wanted that action. We don't know
all this stuff. Because the guy who got the message
wrong was one of the first people killed during this charge,
which is not funny. I'm not laughing, but it's just
(27:54):
I mean, this was known as sort of a war
folly by the end of it, even though as we'll see,
it didn't turn out to be a complete loss.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
No, I know, we haven't gotten to the Light Brigade,
the actual charge yet, but should we take a break.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Now, Yeah, I think it fits the act structure.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Sorry everybody, we'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Stuffing jaw stoff you.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
All right. So now we're finally at the light Brigade charge.
It was not supposed to happen that way. Again, it
was a misunderstood or misdelivered at least order and Lucan
and Cardigan didn't know they had six hundred seventy cavalrymen
in this light brigade. One of the most famous blunders
(29:06):
in military history. They said basically, all right, let's do
this thing, and they went charging through what was known
as the Valley of Death.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, and there was no one there who was like, oh, okay,
that's this is a good idea, let's do this. But
they didn't question the orders. So when they entered this
Valley of Death, that's why I think Tennyson called it
later right, Yeah, they were again charging right for Russian
cannon straight ahead, and then there were Russian artillery positions
(29:35):
on either side, and they're running right through this and
right when they start riding through the the this Valley
of Death, they just start getting fired upon. They're fired
upon from all three directions, although apparently not all at
the same time, but still like this was a it
was essentially a suicide mission that they'd just been sent
(29:56):
on and it just went badly immediate.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, they were people that survived it, and they said
that limbs were being shot off, heads were being shot off,
Horses were running around without people on them, or with
just bodies on them, without heads. There was so much smoke.
Apparently one soldier said it was like riding into the
mouth of a volcano. That the heavy brigade it was
(30:21):
going so badly. The heavy brigade was supposed to follow.
It was kind of reversed, I guess, and Lucan said, no,
he pulled those orders back and pulled back the heavy
brigade even.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
He said, they have sacrificed the light brigade. That shall
not have the heavy if I can help it. Yeah,
So what's crazy about this is these six hundred and
seventy five riders riding into three thousand ish Russians and
their cannons. Most of them, the majority of them made it.
They made it to these Russian lines and they broke
(30:53):
them up. They actually at least the Russian artillery position
they were charging toward in the center. Yeah, they captured that.
They actually managed to force the Russian soldiers to retreat
from that, and so they captured those guns. That's insane
that that happened like this should have there should have
(31:16):
been no one alive, and yet they actually fulfilled this
nutsoe mission that should have never happened in the first
place because it was a miscommunication.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah, and they ended up getting all three of those
positions because they went back into position. The light brigade
took out one of those positions, which, by the way,
I don't know if we made it clear, but one
of those positions was the original order, which I guess
they eventually got to, right, they just did it out
of order. And then the other one was destroyed by
a French light cavalry unit called the African Hunters or
(31:49):
the how would you pronounce that? Very nice?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Thanks. It took three years of French in high school.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Hey, it's been paying off for eighteen years for us.
So French from you, little German for me and everything
else mispronounced.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Oh well, don't forget your Italian accent though. Well, sure
we have the whole of Europe covered, yeah, most of it.
So when the Lpergate charged through this Valley of death
and broke up the Russian artilleries and the French broke
up another one. I think there was actually one left still,
they had to ride back and were being fired upon
(32:25):
by that remaining one too, So they had to ride
back from the valley to get to where they started back,
you know, to safety again. And when they got back
they found that of the six hundred and seventy members
of the Lpergate who undertook this charge, one hundred and
ten were killed, one hundred and sixty were wounded, three
hundred and seventy five horses were killed, so six hundred
(32:47):
and seventy of the members, more than half of them
lost their horse. And apparently some of the men told
Cardigan that they were ready to go again.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, I guess it was, uh, you know, they felt
like they did good work, they wanted to do more.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I mean, I can't imagine if you thought you were
going on a suicide mission and it actually works out
and you made it back alive. I'm sure you were
invigorated as probably under selling it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah, but guys like you and I would have said,
how about we don't do that again.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
We would have been like, wait, are you sure that's
what he said, because this doesn't make any sense. Let's
talk this through.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
All right. So William Howard Russell is riding about this
thing like we talked about. He is the one that
ends up and he did some beautiful riding as far
as that kind of stuff goes, But he isn't the
one who ended up inspiring Tennyson's poem. Maybe i'll read
this last line at least it's a pretty good example. Yeah,
at the distance of twelve hundred yards, the whole line
(33:45):
of the enemy belched forth from thirty iron mouths, a
flood of smoke and flame, through which hissed the deadly balls.
Their flight was marked by instant gaps in our ranks,
by dead men and horses, by steeds flying wounded or
riderless across the plane.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
That's pretty good reporting.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Yeah, pretty good stuff.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
So I think you mentioned before that the charge of
the light brigade is viewed as an enormous military blunder.
It's still very much taught in schools as like what
not to do. It's also I think it's also shorthand
among military people as like for any senseless waste of soldiers'
(34:24):
lives by higher up calling higher ups, calling bad shots.
But it's also revered as an incredibly brave, courageous act.
And that's what celebrated, not not the fact that they
even were successful. That's not the most celebrated fact. It
was that these men just basically put their nose down
(34:45):
and did what they had to do. However you feel
about that, that's essentially what the what the poem celebrates
most of all.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yeah, which was when he was Poet Laureate of England
in eight fifty I think think it was about six
weeks after that battle is when he published The Charge
of the Light Brigade and the Examiner initially, yeah, should
we read this last the second stanza.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, that's the most famous of all of them.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Why don't you take this one?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
I think you should?
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Okay, forward the light Brigade. Was there a man dismayed,
not though the soldier knew someone had blundered theirs, not
to make reply their's, not to reason why theirs, but
to do and die into the valley of death rode
the six hundred.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, and apparently Tennyson recorded himself reading this on a
wax cylinder, And there's places on the internet, including Amazing Tube,
I believe, where you can hear it. And it bears
an uncanny resemblance to that remember that doll in the
Doll's episode the Old Time he talking doll from the
(35:56):
nineteenth century. It sounds a little bit like that. But
even getting past that, he I don't think he does
a very good job reading it. It's the worst reading
I've heard of that ever.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
So you're saying my reading is better than Tennyson's own.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
I am it is.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Oh wow, yeah, so way to go, man, who I
appreciate that. Maybe I should be Poet Laureate Reader of England.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I've been secretly lobbying for you to be named Poet
Laureate of the US for years now.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
My high school had a poet laureate. Who was it,
Natasha Trethaway if I'm not mistaken. Wow, she was there
when I was there. Pretty cool stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
It's impressive you remember that.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, I think she might have been in my grade, So,
yeah she was. Who knows, I might have had English
class with her for all I know. So there was
also from Tennyson, the charge of the heavy Brigade at
ballack Lava. It was years after the war though, and
this was and this is kind of where we end
the story is British war veterans had a very hard
(37:00):
time after this in a lot of cases, and there
were many efforts to try and raise money and raise
awareness for that that a lot of them went to
poorhouses and weren't cared for. And this poem was written
years later to try and raise money for these war
veterans along with Kipling.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Right, Kipling wrote another one, the Last of the Light Brigade,
that actually commemorates the charge of the Heavy Brigade at
Balaklava and Tennyson's writing of it, and Tennyson actually makes
an appearance in this Kipling poem, but both of them
were basically for the same reason to call attention to
the fact that these Crimean war veterans had just been
(37:37):
totally abandoned by their nations and were living in total
poverty in a lot of cases. And what's really said
is that a fundraising effort that Tennyson led thanks to
his poem and his fame too, I mean, like he
was a very famous person. Yeah, at this time, they
were only able to collect twenty four pounds.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
That can't can't have been too much even back then. No,
there were a couple of movies. There was one from
nineteen thirty six, The Charge of the Light Brigade with
Errol Flynn and Olivia de Hablind.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
And Olivia to Hablin had her breakthrough role in Airport
seventy seven years later.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Yeah, that's what she's known for. It was a love
triangle movie about British British soldiers that takes place, you know,
sort of around this fatal charge. And then another one
from sixty eight, right.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, it's called The Charge of the Lightpergade. But this
one is a satires, satirizing the British aristocracy, especially in
the Victorian Age, essentially just hungering for war so they
could get their own glory again, buying offices or ranks
in the military. And it was John Gielgood as Lord Cardigan.
(38:50):
And yeah, I haven't seen.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
It, Vanessa Redgrave like, what a cast.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah, it's quite quite a cast. Every time I see
John Gielgood or hear his name, I replace his name
with doctor feel Good the Motley Crue song. He's the
one they called John, Sir John Gielgod. You have to
add this, sir.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
He's the one they call Sir John giel Good.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
There it is. He's the one that makes it feel
all right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
If you're watching Arthur, that.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Is was he in? That was he the butler?
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah, I think he want to Oscar for that role
for the butler.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, that's impressive.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
He was great and this is one of my favorite
movies growing up still is awesome.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Well, that's the charge of the lipergade everybody, that's right,
Chuck said, that's right. So it's time for listener mail.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Hey guys, long story short, I've been listening for four
plus years, and, as many others say, you to have
no idea how much appreciation your fan base has for
you writing this. I was scouring through old episodes. I
came acrossing up where you two disagreed on the subject.
I can't remember what it was, but you kept the
animated conversation going for a few minutes. It was a
subtle reminder that the two of you just like anybody
(40:01):
else or friends and can totally have disagreements or different opinions.
But let's have a little fun. Can you share an
example of when you disagreed with the other but rather
than voice it on the air, you kept it to yourself.
Or are there any topics where you had a disagreement
and you cut it out? That is warmly from Warner
Finn ps, Mom and Dad. I'll go ahead and answer
(40:23):
for my part in that. I don't think we've ever
had a disagreement that we've like off cut out of
the episode that I can think of.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
No, we almost, Yeah, we leave those in. I can't
think of one either.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Yeah, and I can't think of I mean, there's the
famous you know, watering the lawns and things like that
from past episodes. But I mean, I'm sure there's lots
of little things I might disagree on it in the
moment that I keep to myself that just aren't a
big deal, and I don't bring them up because it's
just not worth mentioning in a show episode.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah, you want to keep the show going. Plus Also,
I mean, you can only correct one another so often
before you start seeming like a know it all or whatever,
or it just is interruptive most of the time. It
just doesn't matter. Like chassis. You remember you're saying chassis, right,
and I didn't correct you, man, it just didn't matter,
you know.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Yeah, exactly, and uh yeah, I think that sums it
up best. We uh and on just big stuff philosophically,
we're pretty much aligned as humans and friends. So like,
that's why there's never any big stuff is because we
both kind of park our cars in the same garage.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
It would be the most part you much different podcast
if we if we didn't see eye to eye generally
on the big stuff.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
I think yeah, And I mean, I think most of
the disagreements are like you didn't like that movie that
kind of stuff, right, and who cares about that?
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah? Or you've never had pizza rolls.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, Like I don't like pickles and mustard, And even
though you're determined to you, it's me. There's a pickle
and a mustard.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
I might like, Yeah, no, I finally accepted both. Okay,
I've accepted it that you don't like pickles.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
It's okay, Well that's recent because last week you tried
to feed me a pickle mustard samwich.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
It's just from yesterday. I really gave a lot of
thought to it in the sauna. Okay, good, and yeah,
I'm like, you just didn't like pickles.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
I wonder what you were thinking about that day?
Speaker 2 (42:17):
That was it?
Speaker 3 (42:18):
All right?
Speaker 2 (42:19):
All right? Who was that from?
Speaker 1 (42:21):
That was from Warner Fenn in Los Angeles. Oh, that's it.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
You're gonna see something else, Thanks a lot, Warner.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
I was, but I stopped myself.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
See how that happened. Were you gonna correct me or something?
Speaker 1 (42:33):
No, not at all. I'll tell you.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Okay, Thanks a lot Warner. That was a really great email.
It reminds me of the kind of questions we get
at the Q and A we do at our live shows,
which we have coming up. I think we're probably in
the middle of them right now when this comes out.
That's right, or we're gonna be other places too, So
you can find out where we're gonna be by going
to Stuffishould Know dot com and clicking on the on
tour button. And in the meantime, if you want to
(42:56):
send us an email like Warner did, you can send
it to stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you
Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff You Should Know News
Hosts And Creators
Chuck Bryant
Josh Clark
Show Links
AboutOrder Our BookStoreSYSK ArmyRSSPopular Podcasts
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.
Milan Cortina Winter Olympics
The 2026 Winter Olympics in Milan Cortina are here and have everyone talking. iHeartPodcasts is buzzing with content in honor of the XXV Winter Olympics We’re bringing you episodes from a variety of iHeartPodcast shows to help you keep up with the action. Follow Milan Cortina Winter Olympics so you don’t miss any coverage of the 2026 Winter Olympics, and if you like what you hear, be sure to follow each Podcast in the feed for more great content from iHeartPodcasts.
iHeartOlympics: The Latest
Listen to the latest news from the 2026 Winter Olympics.