Ep. 16; Dr. Morgan Talks Attachment Theory & Relationship Hope with Ricky

This week, Morgan wants to bring hope to those in relationships and those who are dating! First, Psychologist Dr. Morgan Anderson is on talking about the different attachment styles in relationships. She details how people can start working on these to become a secure attachment. Morgan also admits a situation that happened to her recently that opened up her old anxious attachment wounds. Then, Morgan's friend Ricky Fletcher is on to bring some hope. He is 1/2 of one of Morgan's favorite couples and she wanted his perspective on love and relationships. He details his personal love story & how he functions in his marriage today. Plus, he gave some advice for single men looking to settle down!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Morgan joulesmen.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
This week, I want to bring some hope to all
the people who are dating, or in relationships or trying
to be in a relationship. First, I'm bringing on doctor Morgan,
who is a psychologist and attachment theory expert.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
She's going to discuss all the types of attachment.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Theories and how to start working through them in your life.
Then I'm bringing on my friend Ricky Fletcher, who is
one half of one of my favorite couples. He and
his wife Paige are a relationship that I've looked up
to for years, so I would love for him to
provide all of us singles with some hope and maybe
some reflection for single men.

Speaker 4 (00:53):
I have always.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Really loved to talk about attachment theory, so I'm really
excited not only because this this amazing person that's joining
us is an expert in this field, but also because.

Speaker 4 (01:03):
We share the same name.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
It's doctor Morgan Anderson, and she's a psychologist and attachment
theory expert.

Speaker 4 (01:09):
Morgan, how are you.

Speaker 5 (01:11):
I am doing great. Thank you so much for having me,
And yes, I love that we have the same name.
It's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
If there's anything I've learned, Morgan's are the best, So
I agree.

Speaker 5 (01:21):
I feel like it's so funny. I know so many
like strong independent. There's something about that name. I feel
like we're just we get each other, Yes, we do.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Okay, I want to start kind of here at the beginning,
talking about what is attachment theory.

Speaker 4 (01:40):
Now I'm super familiar with it.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
I've explored a lot of it in my own life,
and I know a lot of different levels of this.
But I know there's people out there that aren't super familiar.
So what is attachment theory and what are the different attachments?

Speaker 4 (01:53):
Also?

Speaker 5 (01:54):
I love this, Yes, let's dive into it. And I
always like to start out by encouraging people that this
is not a way to judge yourself. It's not a
way to label yourself. All of our healings starts with
awareness and compassion. So as I'm talking about attachment styles,
I hope that you can just take that as learning
and gaining awareness and not as a label. And then

(02:18):
the other thing I want to say is that you
can have more than one type of attachment strategy, so
don't be surprised if you find yourself fitting into different styles.
To answer your question, going on.

Speaker 4 (02:30):
It, it I like the warning label on it, just
to this, Yes, it's good.

Speaker 5 (02:34):
Yeah. Attachment theory research started all the way back in
the nineteen fifties John Bowlby and Mary Ainsworth. They were
researching how children responded to their parents, and they use
something called the strange situation where they would have the
parent leave the room and they would see how the

(02:54):
child responded when the parent left and then when the
parent returned, and essentially they were able to take this
research and look at how we form and maintain bonds.
So your attachment style tells you a lot about how
you show up in relationships. What do you do when

(03:16):
you're stressed, What do you do when you need reassurance,
What are your beliefs about relationships, What are your beliefs
about yourself. There's so much that we can learn just
by understanding your attachment style. And attachment theory research has
come a long way because we've obviously applied it in
parent child relationships, but also in romantic relationships, which is

(03:40):
what my work primarily focuses on, but it's also in
all your relationships with friends, your work, your career, your
relationship to money. We really can apply attachment theory into
so many areas of your life.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
I know about the parent child one and the relationship one,
but hearing that it can also play out and financial
situations in your career and stuff is really really interesting.
So what are those kind of different attachments? Then when
we break down attachment theory, what are kind of different
subgroups within that?

Speaker 5 (04:14):
So there are four styles we have anxious attachment style,
avoidant attachment style, disorganized and secure and secure is where
we all want to be. That's the goal. And just
to go through each of them in a short summary,
we'll start with anxious attachment. At the core of anxious

(04:35):
attachment is fear of abandonment and also the devaluing of
self and overvaluing others. So it's really common if you
have this style in your relationships that you're putting other
people on a pedestal and you're probably not as aware
of your own needs. You might be scared to set
boundaries or to communicate how you feel because you once

(04:57):
again have that fear of abandonment. And then the other
thing about anxious attachment that I think is important is
most people with this style have I like to call
it a reassurance bucket that has holes in it. So
no matter how much reassurance you're getting from your partner,
let's say you're not able to feel secure in the relationship.

(05:18):
So if someone has anxious attachment but they have a
partner that's saying, hey, I love you, I choose you,
I want to be with you, even if the partner
is showing up and they're doing all the things, it's
going to be really hard for that person to internalize
the security and internalize the reassurance, so they're kind of
always waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
I am deeply familiar with the anxious attachment in the
beginning of my relationships early twenties, so deeply familiar.

Speaker 5 (05:47):
Anxious yes, And anybody listening, it's like, Okay, this is
that person who you know you're sending the seventeen text
messages when you don't get the response right and you're
going in the spirals predicting the worst case scenario. Yeah,
I think a lot of us can relate to that,
or we know someone who has experienced that. And then
let's talk about avoidant attachment style. So with avoidant attachment,

(06:10):
you learn hyper independence as a coping skill. And what
this can look like is really shutting off from your
emotional experience and focusing on achievement and overworking. A lot
of people that I meet with avoidant attachment, they kind
of have that belief that they should just focus on
their careers.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
Okay, yeah, and also familiar with this one.

Speaker 5 (06:33):
Right, And with avoidant attachment, there's fear of intimacy, fear
of closeness, and some of those core beliefs can be
I'm not a good partner, I'm going to disappoint the
other person, or it could also be they will disappoint
me if I open up, if I share with someone,
if I depend on them, then I'm going to be disappointed.

(06:54):
So in order to maintain safety, they learn hyper independence
as a coping skill.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Does the avoidant attachment tend to coincide with emotionally unavailable Absolutely.
I've had a lot of avoidant attachment partners, which was
really fun for me as an anxious attachment. So then
we have disorganized and we have secure attachment. Those are
the other, yes, So it brings those down for me.

Speaker 5 (07:18):
Disorganized detachment is basically your pendulum swinging between anxious and avoidant,
and you're simultaneously showing up with both of those strategies.
This is a very painful attachment style. The core belief is, Okay,
I don't want to be abandoned, but I also don't
want to be close to you. So if you've ever

(07:39):
experienced a push pull relationship dynamic, that was probably someone
with disorganized attachment style, and you can kind of feel like, wow,
I never know what I'm going to get with this person.
They want to pull me close, but then they want
to push me away. And with disorganized attachment, there's a
huge correlation with early childhood trauma and it's really only

(08:02):
about five to seven percent of the population, but people
who have disorganized attachment really know it because I mean
they know that something is just not right in their relationships.
It's really hard for them to maintain stable, secure relationships.
They just experience a lot of chaos and a lot

(08:22):
of emotional dysregulation, and also a lot of not having
a cohesive identity, not really knowing who they are, kind
of finding themselves to be shape shifters in their relationships
and trying to meet their partner's needs. I could go
on and on. This was my attachment style for a
long time. So I really have so much compassion for
people with disorganized attachment style, because I know how painful

(08:45):
it is.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
The lack of identity is really hard.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
That's the thing that you have to really work on,
just overarching for your entire life. So then knowing how
it's impacting your relationships can be really tough.

Speaker 5 (08:55):
You can always become securely attached. I feel like it's
important to know relating to this, I want you to
know you can rewire your brain. So I have evidence of.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
That, and that is my kind of next question. So
secure attachment is the one we all want to be.
I'm lucky that I have been able to go from
an anxious attachment to a secure attachment with a lot
of work. But what are some steps for those who
are any of those three that we just discussed to
become the secure attachment? What are some first things that

(09:25):
they need to do, What do they need to address
look inward? What are those things that you would encourage
right off the map.

Speaker 5 (09:31):
I love that you're asking this, and I think it's
it's so wonderful that you've also had that experience. And
I think the more models people have that they can see,
oh wow, people can change and they can go on
to have these healthy relationships, no matter what their past
has been. We just need as much of that as
possible in our world. So I'm really happy that's your story.

(09:53):
The first thing is awareness, and we're doing that right
now on this episode.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, we are yay.

Speaker 5 (10:00):
Awareness of what your attachment style is, sore where you're
starting from. I actually have a great quiz which I
can give to you to share with your audience. Please do. Yeah,
it'll tell you the percentage you are of each style,
So maybe you're seventy five percent avoidant and twenty five
percent secure, where you could have a mix of more

(10:22):
than that. But just knowing where you are is step one.
The next step is really understanding where it came from,
because I always tell people we're really only able to
let go of our trauma and to let go of
our current survival ways of being, which that's all your
attachment style is. It's your current way of surviving in relationships.

(10:45):
We're only able to let that go once we understand
the root and we know where it came from.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
Which is really difficult because the root is often something
that we don't want to face.

Speaker 5 (10:56):
Right And that's why I mean, I'm sure you know
you won't going for your work. You didn't do it alone,
as my guests.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
No, I I had therapists, and I had a lot
of friends, and I had a lot of important conversations
with family, and just a constant understanding of and grace
for myself for a lot of things that I really
blamed myself for that weren't really my fault. It was
just of circumstances that I was in and I was
taking on the responsibility of all the things that I

(11:25):
had been through.

Speaker 4 (11:26):
So yeah, it was not just me.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
It was multiple people that helped me find that and
going through multiple different types of relationships to understand how
I am in relationships.

Speaker 5 (11:36):
I love that. So absolutely. If you're listening to this
and you're going, okay, so I'm getting the awareness piece,
Oh wow, I need to go back to the roots
of where this came from. Don't try to do it alone.
Go get a therapist or seek out a coach, but
don't try to do this alone. And I love that
you mentioned the people in your life as well, and

(11:57):
having different types of relationships is all key. And then
the third step, now that you have support, what I
really recommend people do is you need to start rewiring
your belief systems, your relationship belief systems, and also your
beliefs about yourself, because we all have these unconscious beliefs

(12:18):
about how we are supposed to be in relationships in
order to be loved.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Right, this mean kind of taking down some of those
unhealthy thought processes that we've had in scenarios like with
relationships and the negative self talk not only to ourselves
but with a partner.

Speaker 5 (12:33):
Absolutely, so, if you have anxious attachment, you might have
a belief of I'm not enough, I'm always going to
be abandoned.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
You know, even as the secure attachment that I am
now I can speak from the anxious side of I
still have a fear of abandmon that's still there. It's
just now that I'm aware of it and I can
understand that it exists. I'm able to communicate that, I'm
able to see when it's presented in a relationship, and
I'm able to communicate clearly when I'm experiencing that, And

(13:03):
that helps. You don't have to be perfectly healed to
no longer wait for a relationship.

Speaker 4 (13:08):
You just have to be aware of it and know
how to deal with it.

Speaker 5 (13:10):
Really, I love that you said that that is So
the next step. Once we work on beliefs and thoughts,
then it's all about how do we help you embody
secure attachment in your body and your behaviors. So learning
how to show up as your securely attached self and
secure is not perfect. Just what you said, it'd be
impossible to show up one hundred percent securely attached.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
I feel like if you could, you have zero pass
that you would have been the most perfect angel baby.

Speaker 5 (13:39):
And life had to be perfect for you even to
be at secure attachment. There's still going to be times
where you know, there was relational woundings or things that
come up. So it's just completely unrealistic just to think like, oh, yeah,
I'm never going to have any issues in my relationships whatsoever.

(14:00):
Maybe robots will have that ability one day, but we're humans, right.

Speaker 4 (14:05):
Yeah, we're not AI.

Speaker 5 (14:07):
We're not AI, thank god. So yeah, so learning how
to embody secure attachment in your body, in your nervous system,
and in your behaviors. So that's the next step. And
then the final step, which I think is really awesome,
is going out and having what I like to call
corrective emotional experiences in your relationships. Okay, tell me more

(14:33):
different inputs equals different outputs, So you start showing up
secure in your relationships, and then you will have different
experiences aka corrective emotional experiences. So now you have these
new ways of being that are supporting your new models
of securely attached relationships, So confirming your new healthy beliefs, right,

(14:58):
such as I am more than enough, I have the
right to speak my truth in my relationships, and people
come closer to me when I'm authentically myself and I'm
so deserving of love and being cared for. And then
when I start having those experiences, my brain goes, oh, yeah,
that is true.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
So it's affirming your beliefs in the good side rather
than the negative.

Speaker 5 (15:22):
You know.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
It's it's interesting that you mentioned that because I look
at myself in my early twenties when I was dating
and I as an anxiously attached person.

Speaker 4 (15:32):
I was always finding myself in.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Situationships or in relationships with avoidance or disorganized or men
who knew how to bread crumb or gaslight. And as
I evolved as a human being and like really recognize,
I hated the way that I felt, and I hated
the way that I was being treated and started to
grow and to become who I am now. In Morgan,
who's thirty one, I cannot be bothered if somebody even

(15:56):
gives me a hint of a breadcrumb or in the
direct action of being an avoidant, I'm like, oh yeap,
red stop sign, I'm out. I'm getting out of the car.
You can continue on, but it's not going to be
with me. It's interesting just watching the evolution of myself
having figured that out. So I want that for other
people if they've found themselves in one of these other
three in trying to find themselves to a secure attachment.

Speaker 5 (16:18):
Oh, let's talk about this. This is good, this is juicy.
So when you're showing up with insecure attachment style like
you were talking about, and also myself in my twenties
as well, your brain your attachment system. You are attracted
to emotionally unavailable partners, that is your emotional home. Those

(16:38):
partners fit the model of what your brain knows is
true about relationships, so you are definitely attracted to those people.
And of course avoidantly attached people are attracted to anxiously
attach people as well because it also fits their emotional home.
It's this perfect storm of you know, that magnetic attraction,

(17:03):
and this is why it can be so hard to
break out of it. And the only way to break
out of it is to not get an avoidantly attached
person to love you. Like spoiler alert for everyone out there,
That's not how you break out of it. It's to
change internally and to do the work on yourself so
that you become securely attached and now you are attracted

(17:23):
to a different type of partner.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
It's really hard because even as someone who is a
secure attachment now and in the dating field currently, there
is an overwhelming amount of people who are avoidant and
who are emotionally unavailable. I don't know if that's just
we're mora aware that that's who they are, or if
we're just.

Speaker 4 (17:43):
In a very specific timeframe where this is happening. I don't,
you know. I don't know the science behind any of that,
but from.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
Personal experience, even being a secure attachment, they're still finding me,
They're still coming.

Speaker 5 (17:54):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (17:54):
The only thing that has changed is that I can
now see it for what it is.

Speaker 5 (17:59):
The year no longer attracted to it, so you're not
playing into it, so you're ending those connections so much
more quickly than you would have in the past, and
I'll give you some of the research on this. So
number one is that you're not wrong that there are
more avoidantly attached people in the dating pool because they
find themselves in and out of relationships more frequently, right,

(18:21):
So they're in a relationship and then they're back in
the dating pool. So yes, there are proportionately more people
who have avoidant attachment who are in the dating pool.
And then the other stat that is somewhat terrifying to
me is that avoidant attachment is the quickest growing attachment style,

(18:42):
So we have more people becoming avoidantly attached than any
other attachment style.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Oh gosh, that makes me so sad because it's already
rough out here in these streets.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
Okay, we don't need to make it work.

Speaker 5 (18:53):
There is hope. I want to get to the hope
whole part. But let's we could talk about this more. Well.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
It's funny, you know, my friend will often look at
me because of the relationships that I've been in there like,
I'm always surprised that you haven't become an avoidant based
on your experiences, And I think once you've had enough
experiences on the other side of an avoidant.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
You never want to be that way.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Your hope is to never show up to another person
like that because of how painful it is to be
on that receiving end. And it doesn't mean that anybody's
at fault for being those types of things.

Speaker 4 (19:27):
We're all human, we all have to go through life experiences.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
But once you've felt that, and once you've been on
the other side, or been the anxiously attached or the
avoidant whatever, you know how much pain is caused from that.
And there's no benefit from me switching attachments from secure
to avoidant just simply because I've been hurt.

Speaker 5 (19:45):
What's really fascinating is that both anxious attachment and avoidant attachment,
they actually are emotionally unavailable. They're both emotionally unavailable, which
I know is kind of mind blowing. Avoidantly attached people
are emotionally out ofvailable to their partners. Anxiously attached people
are emotionally unavailable to themselves.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Interesting, which is a as you said, of perfect storm,
especially because most of the time they find each other
and then you just have a whole mess of a
lot of emotions and things that aren't being communicated in
the way they need to.

Speaker 5 (20:17):
Be yes, it's a completely dysfunctional. It just doesn't work.
It's not sustainable.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
It's ever possible for an avoidant attachment and an anxious
attachment to be together long term and it actually kind
of work itself out.

Speaker 5 (20:31):
Yes, I've seen this happen. I've helped couples through this,
and I will tell you how it's possible. Is if
both people realize how they are showing up to the
relationship is not working, and both people want to take
ownership of their individual contributions and they also want to

(20:51):
show up and work on the relationship together. So essentially,
it takes a lot of awareness, it takes a lot
of willingness to work on themselves and then to all
also work on the relationship. But it is absolutely possible.
I think about the term capacity a lot, and some
people that can have the awareness so maybe they know
this isn't working, we got to change things, but they

(21:12):
simply may not have the emotional capacity to actually do
the work. So I caution anyone of just because someone
says they want to work on something, you have to
look at their actions and be honest and say, are
they really showing up for this? Are you the one
that's booking all those couples therapy appointments and dragging them there,

(21:32):
like in order to really heal that kind of dynamic,
both people need to be invested.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Do you often feel like with any of those three
attachment the anxious, days, organized, or avoidant, that capacity is
often kind of at the forefront that they don't have the.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
Emotional capacity to work on it.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
If it's someone who just kind of stays there and
isn't actively trying to become a secure attachment.

Speaker 5 (21:53):
Yeah, capacity is huge in terms of the willingness to
look at themselves and the the willingness to do the work.
I think we're really fortunate and that we live in
a time where there is so much out there now
about doing the work. So there's kind of this awareness
of if we want to have different types of relationships,
we know we need to work on ourselves. But really

(22:16):
some people just aren't ready. Some people they haven't experienced
enough pain, they're not really motivated yet. Some people they
simply are too much into their trauma and the coping
that they're using is numbing themselves too much, and they're
just they're just not ready to face it. So we
can't force people to do the work. Yeah, all we

(22:37):
can do is take ownership ourselves. That's that's it, you know.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yes, Because I also imagine you see a lot of
people with those types of attachment styles, like the partner
who's trying to fix them and trying to encourage them
and say, I know this is happening, please do this,
but they often can't or don't want to, or you know,
the list goes on. So I can see how that
can be super damnaged. And how then you have people

(23:02):
who are very healthy who go, never mind, I'm going
to now be an avoidant because I don't want to
do this right.

Speaker 5 (23:08):
And I think this is the beauty of secure attachment
that we're talking about is where you go you have
an abundance mindset in dating, you go, hey, I know
my worth, I know my value. I know that there
are so many people out there right now who would
love to build an emotionally available, secure relationship with me.
So I'm not going to settle right. I'm not going

(23:32):
to work really really hard in something and try to
force it and make it work. Instead, I'm going to
find a partner who can meet me where I'm at
and we can easily build this thing together.

Speaker 4 (23:42):
Oh yeah, that's an important one.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
The abundance processing in your mind, especially for a lot
of single people out there as they're going through these
experiences and Situationships are such a hot topic, and situationships
often come with these attachment styles.

Speaker 5 (23:58):
They do they do? Oh, I was just thinking about
this because there are so many people who are mourning
the end of that kind of relationship and they find
themselves so stuck in it and they can't get over it,
and there's something deeper there. It's really it's something called
repetition compulsion.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Oh, break this down for me, because I'll tell you
I have literally this is your perfect storm as you're
thinking about this.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
I am a secure attachment. I know what I deserve.
I'm aware of the abundance process and everything.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
I started seeing a guy and it was going so great,
but he quickly pulled back as soon as it started
getting serious, putting in some distance, and I felt myself
start to become anxiously attached because he was providing me
with an experience that I remember that's avoidant attachment. And
as soon as I started to feel myself going that
anxious I say, oh.

Speaker 4 (24:48):
Who know, we're not going here.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
This is not good for me, and I'm getting out
of this as quick as I can. And I ended
it with him, even though I was really excited for
the potential of what I thought he was.

Speaker 4 (24:58):
And there's still this part of me.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
That's really sad that I en did that because I
believed this could be something and it's that bad cycle
that has come back. So do explain this, because I
am probably your model patient in exact.

Speaker 5 (25:14):
Yes, you are setting this up so well, and I
just I also just want to give so much compassion
to you and see anyone who's gone through that, because
it is painful. And I was talking about ghosting earlier
and how you know, sometimes we just we don't get
that closure from people that we want. So anyways, I
know it's painful, but I think that this will help
people understand it. It's this term repetition compulsion, and essentially

(25:39):
what it is is we are taking unfinished business aka
past relational trauma, whether it's from childhood or earlier relationships,
and we end up replaying it in our current adult
romantic relationships. So we're seeking out partners that recreate those

(25:59):
pasts wounds. And what happens is is your brain has
this unconscious wish that this time I could get a
different outcome.

Speaker 4 (26:10):
Oh, yes, that's it, that's the burn you found it.

Speaker 5 (26:15):
Yeah, and then if this time, if I get a
different outcome this time, if I get that emotionally unavailable
person to choose me, it's gonna make up for everything
that I experienced in the past. What happens when the
story ends the same way, it's what you're experiencing. It's
that it's not only just about him, it's about all
of it that he represented, and the story is the

(26:37):
same way.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, you hit the nail on the head when this
had ended, I remember just having this complete like it
felt like Mount Everest was crumbling because it was everything
that came back just to remind me of what had happened.

Speaker 4 (26:50):
And I was like, that was painful. Let's not do
that again.

Speaker 5 (26:54):
Yeah, this is a very real thing. That and you know,
obviously you you broke the pattern, and you probably broke
it earlier than you would have in the past. Oh yeah,
there's so much growth, there, so much healing. That's that's
so good. And at the same time, there's that opportunity
for you to offer yourself so much compassion and just
be so curious about those wounds that came up and

(27:16):
how can you even heal those on a deeper level.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yes, so true, and I hopefully me talking about that
allows some people who have found themselves in situationships or
situations similar can feel a little bit of grace for
themselves having gone through that.

Speaker 4 (27:31):
Now, I also wanted to ask you.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Being in a secure attachment style obviously isn't easy. And
as you're seeing in the last story that I just shared,
I'm still fluctuating. There's still moments where my other ones
seep in and try and take over.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
But how can somebody keep their secure attachment.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Style going at least majority like it's constantly growing in
that direction versus kind of downsliding.

Speaker 5 (27:53):
Oh, such a good question. I could talk about this
forever somebody to try to keep it short. You're doing
the important thing, I think obviously, once you have that
awareness and you're building that identity of this securely attached self,
and you know what it feels like to be securely
attached in your body, you know the behaviors that go

(28:15):
along with your securely attached self, you know the beliefs
that you have about yourself, the beliefs you have about relationships, right,
you're building that securely attached identity. So once you have
the clarity, it's just about showing up that way as
much as possible. There's two ways to show up that way.
Number one is preventative, so like and this is the

(28:36):
maintenance to help you show up that way. If I'm
thinking about preventative work, I'm thinking about what's your self
care routine? How are you talking to yourself? What are
the ways that you're showing yourself that I'm enough and
I'm worthy of being taken care of. What are the
ways you're working on your mindset, your abundance. Do you
have a good morning routine, evening routine, anything that you're

(28:58):
doing to regulate your nervous system that helps you show
up as your secure self. Do you have things like that,
Morgan that you know, yeah help you.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Oh yeah, I've figured out my self care and how
important going to the gym and exercising is, getting out
and walking, not being on my phone first thing in
the morning. There's tools I have in place, and when
I don't do those things, I feel that I feel
the repercussions of that for.

Speaker 5 (29:19):
Sure, absolutely, and for me A lot of it is
about how do I all myself At the end of
the day. I'm a hot bath girl, Like I have
to take a hot bath at night.

Speaker 4 (29:30):
Okay, we have to do my reading.

Speaker 5 (29:33):
Instead of watching TV. I've learned things about my nervous system,
and when you have a regulated nervous system, it's so
much easier for you to show up as your securely
attached self because instead of reacting, you're responding. You get
to embody your secure self. We love preventative, we love
self care, we love having a regulated nervous system. Love that.

(29:56):
And then if we find ourselves in our in secure
attachment and we find ourselves reacting, the best thing we
can do is learn how to move ourselves back to
secure as quickly as possible. So that's something I teach
all my clients. Essentially, it's learning how to be really
aware of how you're showing up, so that self awareness piece,

(30:19):
noticing when you're showing up in your insecure attachment, and
then speaking to yourself with so much compassion and understanding.
So maybe it's that urge of oh my gosh, I
want to send this guy a paragraph long text message
and I want to go off and you know, have
this anxious spiral come out and instead of sending the

(30:40):
text it's about you noticed it. You're in your anxious attachment.
How do we now breathe and show up with so
much compassion and just go, oh wow, you must be
feeling really scared and you must be having some fear
of abandonment right now, and I'm noticing that your anxious
attachment response is coming up, and I just have so

(31:00):
much love and compassion for you that that's how you
feel like you need to respond right now. And I
just want you to know that I love you and
you're safe. You'd be saying that to yourself.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
So when you were talking about all of that, I
realize when you said there's these two kind of sides
of the preventative and then what's happening. That's so important
now that you talk about the what's happening side of it.
The preventative is going to allow you to have that
self love and self respect to work through those things.
And that's so awesome that you shared that, because I

(31:30):
watched what you were talking about happen as you were
sharing it of like, oh, this is why you do
the preventative things.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
And take care of yourself.

Speaker 5 (31:37):
Yes, the more you take care of yourself, the more
calm your nervous system is, the easier it's going to
be for you to realign to your securely attached self.
So they go so hand in hand.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
Oh man.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
I so hope that anybody out there who's experiencing any
of the other attachment styles can hear this and be like,
that's where I want to be and this is how
I can do that.

Speaker 4 (32:00):
You know, that's the goal. Everybody wants to have relationships.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
We're all human and we want to be connected, but
to do it in a very secure and healthy way
is very important.

Speaker 5 (32:08):
It is, and I think I just want to give
people hope that it really is possible for you. And
I think, you know, as someone who've experienced my own
childhood trauma and going through really toxic relationships in my twenties,
then to now having done this work and find myself
in a really healthy, loving, secure relationship going on over

(32:30):
three years now getting married next.

Speaker 4 (32:32):
Year, Like hey, we love that, we love hope.

Speaker 5 (32:35):
Yes, right right, It's like it really is possible. And
I think if me and my twenties could see me now,
I just don't even think that I ever thought that
this kind of relationship was possible for me, but it
really is. I don't want anybody to go, oh, it's
possible for hur, but not for me, Like, no matter
what you've experienced, is possible for.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
You when you did find this, who I imagine is
of your man of your dreams now because you've put
in so much work and coming from the attachment style
that you did even though you were secure, I imagine
when you met him were their struggles for you in
fighting against that old attachment style that you had.

Speaker 5 (33:14):
I think what's really helpful for people to know is
that when you've healed from attachment style trauma and then
you're finding yourself in a healthy relationship, sometimes that can
feel so foreign and so so new and just kind
of weird, and you can just have all these questions
about like, oh, are we even compatible because you're so

(33:35):
used to the chaos and the emotional roller coaster of
insecure attachment dynamics. So there was definitely that element. And
then the other thing to realize is that every time
you're deepening intimacy into a healthy relationship, it's normal for
old attachment wounds to come up. So, for example, when
I moved in with him, I had this experience of

(33:57):
anxious attachment come up, and it was so strong, and
I was like, oh, I don't know if this is
the right person, and this all this resurface. It's because
I was deepening the relationship. But when you know that
and you're prepared, that little spiral can be a thirty
minute spiral instead of three months. Right, So it's running away, yes,

(34:19):
instead of running away. If I hadn't healed, if I
hadn't learned how to move myself back to secure attachment,
I absolutely would have sabotaged my relationship by now, I
would have found a way to push him away. I
would have run away. But the fact that I now
know how to hang out in secure attachment, I get
to be in this healthy relationship and not sabotage it.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
Probably, as an expert in your field as you are,
you probably wouldn't say this is the most healthy way
to do it.

Speaker 4 (34:47):
But the way that I've helped allow myself to come
to terms with it. When I am in a secure environment,
I'll just kind of giggle it off and be like,
I have trust issues.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
This feels weird for me, and I'll just try and
like allow myself to process it a way that makes
it feel a little bit lighter instead of so heavy
of like, oh gosh, I.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
Have so many things I have to work through.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
I'm like, no, I have trust issues and I see
you and this hurts, but I'll figure it out kind
of thing.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
It's probably really unhealthy.

Speaker 5 (35:14):
No, I think it's we have to learn how to
tell a narrative about what we're going through in a
way that helps us accept it and move through it.
So if having some humor is helpful, then by all means,
I think that's great. Yeah, owning your narrative, and I
think the important thing of what you said was and
I'm learning how to work through it, right, I'm working

(35:36):
through it.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yes, I've just learned if that can be helpful to
somebody that I just if I can make it feel
a little bit lighter for me, I don't feel so
drastically afraid and want to run away. It just is
like allows me to sit with it instead of being
like this is so heavy, I'm just going to drop
it and run. It's like this is really heavy, but
I'm going to try and make it a little bit
lighter by just literally giggling out my feelings totally.

Speaker 5 (36:01):
I find too in those moments it's really helpful to
ask yourself, well, what am I really afraid of? Am
I afraid that?

Speaker 4 (36:07):
Wow?

Speaker 5 (36:07):
I'm falling madly in love with this person and pretty
soon I'm gonna want them to be a part of
my life. And can I allow myself to say, you
know what I'm deserving of that? I'm deserving of love,
I'm deserving of connection, And no matter how this relationship
turns out, having love and intimacy in my life, it's
worth me showing up. It's worth me being vulnerable.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah, that's important, and I think that's a perfect place
to end on. I feel like I could talk to
you forever about this because attachment theory is how we
exist within the world, which is why it's such a
big topic to talk about. So I'm really glad that
I found you and was able to have you come on.
So thank you, doctor Morgan for just everything in your expertise.

Speaker 5 (36:48):
Thank you so much for having me. I loved our conversation.
I know I could talk to you for hours too,
So thank you so much for having me on. This
was great.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
I'm joined this week by one of my really good friends,
Ricky and my dog Remy, who is sitting on his
lap because.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
That's what she likes to do. Ricky, how are you
feeling right now?

Speaker 6 (37:08):
I'm feeling good.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
I'm feeling a little nervous, but Remy is a great
support dog, so she's calming my nerves.

Speaker 6 (37:13):
For everything she.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
Is, she's always nervous too. She she just takes it
for you.

Speaker 6 (37:17):
Yes, so she's she's awesome.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Before we get into anything, I want the people to
hear kind of your backstory and the reason I brought
you on, Ricky, is because you and Page your wife
are one of my favorite couples ever.

Speaker 3 (37:31):
I love you, guys. I look up to you.

Speaker 6 (37:32):
Guys.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
You give me hope for so many things.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
So you're coming on after a attachment theory expert and
we were talking all about relationships and how secure relationships
are really cool and can give you hope. Well, that's you,
that's you in Page help.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
Does that feel weird?

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Like?

Speaker 6 (37:49):
Yes? So that does.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
That does feel like a little weird because you're like
pointing to us as the model.

Speaker 6 (37:55):
But I get it, and thank you.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
I don't know how much hope I can give others,
but I thank you for the compliment that is that
is very sincere, and hopefully I can tie some of
the principles that the attachment earist came on and spoke about.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yeah, so I want you to give them a little
bit of you and Page's story, like tell me your
guys's love story, how you guys.

Speaker 3 (38:14):
Met and you know, kind of decided to get married.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yes, So Paige and I met at Western Kentucky University
in Bowling Green, Kentucky. At the time, she was dating
someone and I believe I was too, But I did
see a lot of a lot of people that I
wanted to.

Speaker 6 (38:30):
Date at that time as a college kid.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
But our roommates were also dating, and that's how we
kind of met. And then we ended up having a
class one day went into a donut shot and I
wanted to get a donut before a class, but there
was a minimum for debit card, so I got two
of them, and she says like, oh my gosh, you
got this for me because you had a crush. In reality,
I did get it because I had to spend a
certain amount of the debit card. But it did think

(38:52):
she was cute, but I couldn't let her know that
at the time, so it did drop off a donut.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Wait, hold on, okay, so let me just bring this
down really quick. You really only got two. It's because
of the debit car.

Speaker 4 (39:01):
Yes, but you chose to give her your second donut.

Speaker 6 (39:04):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
Of all the people, she was the chosen one.

Speaker 6 (39:06):
Well, she was the only one I knew. But she
was the prettiest in the class.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
So it's like, this seems like a it seems like
a great way to flirt with someone. Yeah, so that's
how it started. But she thought it was like I
got it strictly for her, and when I was like,
all right, well, circumstances dictated that you got one. That
is how That's how we met. And then I remember
one another time in that class. I walked her to
her car, But like I said, she always had a boyfriend,

(39:30):
and I tried really really hard to to flirt with her,
and she wouldn't give me any attention. But then after
we graduated, she moved to Nashville and they broke up,
and I just didn't give her a chance to talk
to anyone. I was attached to her, like she is
like remy is to me.

Speaker 3 (39:45):
Right now, She's like I got to sit in his
lap for this.

Speaker 6 (39:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Yeah, and at that time when we were both on
the same page, like we're both broke college kids, paying
back debt, trying to start our career. We're kind of
like on the same page and on the of the
same status and just working and working and working, grinding
together by maintaining our personal life. And we dated for
about five years before we got engaged. Then we got
married and we've been married now since twenty eighteen, so

(40:12):
six years. So it started with the donut and six
years later. Yeah, we're here with our first kid and
he's about to turn two.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
Okay, And so you dated all throughout college from that
kind of moment.

Speaker 6 (40:23):
No, No, we dated.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
It was my full discope, it was my fifth year
in college, which I know was on This was before
I was hoping you wouldn't like time.

Speaker 6 (40:29):
I was hoping you went in timestance. It was her fourth.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
Year, the fifth year. People do the victory lab.

Speaker 6 (40:35):
That's very fair.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
So no, we dated like at the very after really
after college. We met at the very very end. I
was supposed to be gone. So the credit to the
fifth year. There was a reason, there was a reason,
had to find my future wife and finish my credits
at the same time. So no, college was a different
experience for both of us. I was more of the
social kinds and she did not party or really drink

(40:58):
until she met me. And I don't know what that
says about me that she started drinking both me. But yeah,
so no, we did not date through college. It was
really we met it towards dan of college and it
started dating completely after college.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Why did it take five years for y'all to wait
before getting married?

Speaker 6 (41:12):
Because we were broke. I mean that is the short
and skinny of it.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
And like I was twenty two, twenty three years old,
and twenty three year old Ricky was not responsible enough
to like legitimately ask for somebody's hand in marriage and
like like actually fulfill the promises that I was gonna make.

Speaker 6 (41:26):
Yeah, and there was no way.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
And to be fair, my wife was more mature than
me at that time, no doubt, but she would even
say she wasn't ready to get married at all.

Speaker 6 (41:35):
So that five years it was kind.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Of growing into ourselves, you know, because we wanted to
still maintain our own lives. And at twenty three, you
don't know who you are, you don't know where you're
going to be.

Speaker 6 (41:43):
In your career. I mean it took a lot.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
We had learned to live together, but really we both
were concentrated in our careers and just at that time
we couldn't afford to date or we couldn't afford to
actually be together in any real way that we can
fulfill our promises.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
At what moment and you guys that like kind of
five years were you like, I'm going to marry this
girl even though circumstances may have not allowed it to happen.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
What was the moment for you were like, I'm going
to marry this girl.

Speaker 6 (42:09):
Yes, So that is a that's a great question.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
And I tell you Jess was asking me that all
the time, so full disclosure, I was not so kind.
I think we've been dating for a year and then
I kind of broke up with her on my birthday
for selfish reasons. The selfish reasons. I wanted to go
watch Derek Jeter's last baseball game.

Speaker 6 (42:26):
Oh it was on.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
It broke up on her birthday, and then I thought
I was gonna be fine. Yeah, like yeah, like I said,
it wasn't. It wasn't very kind to me. And like
I said, twenty three year old Ricky was not mature,
and at that time I was like, oh, oh, well.

Speaker 6 (42:39):
I've only been dating for a year.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
But then I really did miss her, And after that
I was like, all right, I know I'm going to
marry this girl. If I asked for her to get
back with me, there should be my intentions.

Speaker 6 (42:48):
I shouldn't say just get back to me because I'm
lonely and bored.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
So it was at that time I was like, all right,
if I'm getting back with her, it's with the intent,
but I will marry her and make good on my wrangs.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
And you did you guys to get married and you
now have a kid?

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yes, yes, but every birthday she certainly reminds me of it.

Speaker 6 (43:05):
Still to this day this day.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Okay, but I think all of that are cool lessons
for people and the experiences of relationships in love.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
I didn't even know that part of your guys' story and.

Speaker 6 (43:16):
Try to block it out. That's something that's something I
offer up.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Okay, But you guys are one of genuinely one of
my favorite couples, and I look to you guys because
I think your marriage is so beautiful in a lot
of ways, and I didn't even know that, So like,
look at how far you guys have come to be
who you guys are.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yes, So it's more so like how far I've become
I've grown? Because I was the one that was self
growing in it. It certainly wasn't her. So how far
I've grown? That that is something to marvel at considering.

Speaker 6 (43:45):
Where I started.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
What were the qualities that you looked at for her
while you were going through that growing pains? Because it
sounds like too, like, oh, I'll break the attachment theory
expert on just very briefly for you.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
Basically, there's these four different categories.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
You're either an anxious attachment, avoidant attached, a disorganized attachment,
or a secure attachment. And it sounds like your wife
was a secure attachment.

Speaker 3 (44:07):
She was healthy, she knew what she wanted.

Speaker 6 (44:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
Would that be accurate?

Speaker 6 (44:10):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (44:11):
And I would say, like the first thing was like
her loyalty, trustworthiness, and like being a good mother.

Speaker 6 (44:17):
Those are the two qualities that I really need needed.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
I know, if I'm going to get married, I one
to have kids, and like those are like the I've
like I can build a relationship on the foundation of
trust and honesty and she was and I know that because,
like I said, and when we met, she had a
boyfriend in college. I constantly tried to hit on her
and she denied me every single time. And I was
extremely charming and demanding and persistent. So I was like, Wow,
she's loyal to a fault because he's not as cool

(44:41):
as me. And she like, she, yeah, she won't give in,
So I knew. I knew that was like one thing.
I was like, all right, that's something I'll never have
have to worry about her, her loyalty and her trustworthiness.
And then it was hard working. She had ambition, she
had fire, which is something I really admired, and a
partner someone that's also a go getter because I feel
like will never be bored because she'll always will both

(45:02):
always be like wanting more for ourselves.

Speaker 6 (45:05):
Therefore, like we won't settle. So that was it.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
And like I said, like she had all the traits
that I knew she was gonna be a good mother.
She was dependent and like we laughed a lot together.
That's the biggest thing. We could just have her own
date and go sing and dance and it would be
a lot of fun.

Speaker 6 (45:20):
So I knew that would never fade.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
And then if we can build a foundation of laughter, trust, loyalty, honesty,
and being a good parents, then.

Speaker 6 (45:26):
That's something that's sustainable and you can go.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Through your life with Yeah, those are really good qualities
and all of them and you both have really awesome qualities. Now,
one of the really cool parts of your relationship to me,
but I know that it was probably difficult for you
guys at times, is that you guys are an inter
racial couple.

Speaker 4 (45:44):
Yes, like Page and I are similar.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
We are both white blonde, and like, yeah, this is
our look.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
And you're black.

Speaker 4 (45:52):
That had to be difficult at moments for you.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
Guys, more so her because I mean I was the
first interracial relationship she was ever in. She wasn't my first,
so like I had gotten past all the comments and
all that no one would be treated differently. But it
was interesting to see her deal with that and how
she reconciled with it from friends and just like the
looks she would get and the comments she would get,
like in the wake of George Floyd and you see
comments like across social media and she'd be surprised, like,

(46:16):
oh my gosh, this is how that person really feels
and I know it. I almost even angered her more
than an angered me because I got used to it.
But this was something that was new and fresh to her.
And that's another thing, like I was like, oh my gosh,
she would go to bat for me in the smallest ways,
and she did not care about that at all. And
she wouldn't put up with anyone zero tolerance. I don't
care friends or family for anyone that said anything differently.

(46:37):
So it was certainly eye opening for her. There's a
couple of incidents I don't even need to go into
that soundedly alarmed for her and that, but she she
was so loyal and dedicated that I knew it didn't
matter to her. I knew she was always going to
be on the right side of that.

Speaker 6 (46:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
See, that's why I it's cool because of how beautiful
you guys have handled that and how much you guys
just support and love each other.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Yeah, yeah, love that, Yeah exactly. And she's not afraid
to hide from that. She will she'll be like the
biggest activist.

Speaker 6 (47:04):
In those situations.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
So that may of course, that makes me extremely proud,
and I will say she's a great dancer. So she
won my family over instantly. Yeah, yeah, I think that's
how she broke the ice. And at the Black Faniine,
she just start dancing. I'm like, oh my gosh, she's
really good.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Okay, so question, whenever I get on TikTok, I will
always see the black community come into comments if it's
a cooking video.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
But like, you're invited to the cookout?

Speaker 2 (47:30):
Yeah, did she have any good cooking dishes where she
would have been invited to the cookout?

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Shon the dancing she she got invited to the cookout
from her dancing skills first, because that I think. I
don't think she had a chance to prepare the dish
because they're still gonna look at her like I don't know,
I don't know about her actually preparing. Yeah, let's see
what she got, like, hey, we got a good thing
going over here. And like my family lives in Detroit,
and like it would be harder for her to go
to Detroit and actually cook a dish, but the dance
for opportunity to presented itself, and that's how she got

(47:54):
her invitations to the cookout.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Okay, Okay, Well, at least she's got one thing, you know,
really going for her.

Speaker 6 (47:59):
Yeah, she's got Hey, yeah, she's got it.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
I also wanted to talk to you too, because you know,
we just kind of ventured as to some of the
hard moments you guys have had. But how do you
guys handle hard moments that present themselves for your guys's relationship.

Speaker 6 (48:13):
Open communication, So that's really it.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
And then like the hard moments of depend if the
hard moments are like irreconcilable, then it's a problem.

Speaker 6 (48:21):
But if they're hard moments and like somebody made a mistake.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Or were going through something difficult, like you might lose
a job, you might do something if you really make
good on your promise, like hey, if I vowed to
support you through the good times in the bad, then
you will come back to that center and try to
support somebody through the good and the bad, and you
at least like find an understanding where they're coming from
and see, like how can you help them? Because that's
the thing. I can be different, I can be moody,
And how you would comfort someone or react to something

(48:47):
could be different, like depending on the person you're comforting,
knowing how that person wants to communicate, Knowing like the
words of affirmation that person needs to go forward just
knowing that person and like knowing what they need, because
needs are different based on who you're on a relationship with,
and it's important to treat them like how they want
to be treated and not how you would want to
be treated.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Really, you are so mature as like genuinely just as
a human being, but also because accepting that and knowing
that are one thing, but actively choosing to do that
it's hard, and you've been doing that constantly in your marriage.
So why was that so important for you to like
bring that to the table in a partnership.

Speaker 6 (49:26):
Well, what's really is gonna make me happy?

Speaker 1 (49:28):
It never makes me feel good if I don't try
to understand where somebody's coming from.

Speaker 6 (49:32):
And then, like, I certainly can be stubborn.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
If you ask my wife, she'd be like, yes, he's
way too stubborn and bullheaded. But then at the end
of the day, like being right doesn't matter as much
as supporting the person that you love. So even if
you are thinking right, which I mostly am. Hopefully hopefully
Page doesn't watch this part, but like it doesn't matter.
You kind of throw your ego aside when you realize
there's a person on the other side that really loves
you and really just wants you to get to see

(49:57):
their perspective on things, and it makes you It makes
it almost impossible not to try to get an understanding
where they're coming from, no matter how I guess indifferent
you are about their feelings or the situation.

Speaker 4 (50:08):
Yeah, and you guys two are also really good at balancing.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
You are one of the couples.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Another reason why I admire you, guys, is because your
friendships and your life outside of not only your marriage
but being parents are really important to you. Yes, how
do you, guys, make that a priority. When you do,
you're juggling so many plates.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
So that's a good question, and I think that's what
makes us successful because I think in a partner, you
don't want an overreliance on your happiness become from one person.
I guess it's like in stocks, it's like you want
to kind of diverse about your portfolio. So your portfolio
of happiness. And we know we bring each other great happiness.
But if our stocks are filled with all Ricky happiness
and all Page happiness with each other, then if that collapses,

(50:48):
then it's gonna go downhill.

Speaker 6 (50:49):
So it's important to maintain like a healthy lifestyle.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
So we both love going to the gym, and naturally
we're gonna have gym friends that we want to hang
out with. All that stuff helps us to be productive
professionals and productive parents. It's like it's literally a reset
and like, to be quite honest, she would get sick
of if anyone spent all their time with me, they
would get sick of me pretty easily. So for us,
it is important to strike that balance between friends and
family and then each other, because yeah, you kind of

(51:13):
need all those parts.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
You guys are really good at it. Genuinely, you're really great.
You're better than some people I know that are just
in like a normal relationship. Yeah, made that a priority
since you guys have been my friends, that's always been
something for you guys.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
Yeah, yeah, I think so, because like at the end
of like I said, happiness, life, I think is about
developing and fossil relationships, and like relationships like yours aren't
worth losing because I have a kid or I'm married.
It's like, why can't we just still hang out? Like
it kind of makes no sense why you would stop
doing those things that brought you happiness or still do
bring you happiness. Just because you might be short on time,
you can budget time other ways. But also like try

(51:46):
to get enough sleep because energy, I feel like it's
a skill and resource and you kind of need a
lot of like in relationships maintained. I mean, they require
a lot of energy to maintain. So keep your energy
levels up.

Speaker 3 (51:55):
Yeah, you see, you're just a healthy person overall. I
can look at you. This is also why he's called
pretty ricky. There's a reason, you know.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
Yeah, I just got donating like my son's left over
chicken tenders, so that I wouldn't go too far.

Speaker 6 (52:07):
But thank you for the content.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
But you know, it's also really cool to see just
how you guys have also evolved as a couple while
having your first kid. What has been the change that
you've noticed in your guys' relationship since welcoming a kid
into the mix of things?

Speaker 1 (52:22):
You mean, outside one of us passing the monitor to
each other and send your turn.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
Yeah kid.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Does people say you shouldn't have a relationship to save
a kid, or shouldn't have a kid to save a relationship,
And we were never doing that. We wanted to, but
it does make a relationship stronger because you have to
be you and your partner have to be extremely locked
in for that kid, because it's not about you anymore.
All your decisions are not about just you two and
how they affect you too. It's a greater purpose. It's
it's your kids. So being extreme like an extreme lock
and step and like, since we do like maintaining our

(52:50):
social lives and our physical lives, it's important to like
shift the bird, like she shouldn't get one hundred percent
of the burden on anything, and neither should I. It
is important to balance the responsibilities of pay and then
like household choreses. Since she works all the time, I'm
not gonna make her like cook and then put the
kid down every time, like I need to step in
somewhere and do that. And also like I travel, get
them out for work, and she's always there for me

(53:11):
to support me, so I can like still chase my
career dreams and everything. So I would say, just hell
the communication and being open to balancing every piece of responsibility,
because you're gonna have a significant more responsibility with a kid,
and it will not work if one person is doing
all the work. Somebody's gonna get burnt out, and somebody's
gonna get resentful.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
Oh you see you look at you picture a perfect husband.
I know Paige's gonna listen to this and you see,
absolutely not.

Speaker 6 (53:36):
But yeah, she like depends on the day of the week.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
But that's also human, right.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
I know that you guys genuinely are and you guys
have had your own battles and things that have come up.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
But what's so amazing about you guys as a couple.

Speaker 4 (53:47):
Of why I look to you guys is because you
just figure it out.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
And you show up and you support each other and
no matter what life throws that you guys always know
you guys are gonna have each other's backs.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Yes, yes, and yes she does and she does a great, great,
great job of that because like I could be the
probably the moody and irritable one the most, so she
she definitely she works harder at that.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Well, I would like to because you are a great husband. Yes,
I know she would give you a hard time, but
you are a great husband and.

Speaker 6 (54:13):
Your great dash she would agree, would agree.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
I want you to give some advice, whether maybe it's
just like the guys listen, I always have girls on
here and we're always talking about relationships, So maybe it's
to the guys who are out there dating what they
should be doing to find.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
A potential partner in a marriage that you have.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
So it is different because when me and Patriot together,
neither of us have been on apps, and I like,
I realize actually meeting someone and cultivating relationships a little different.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
Well, you just have to do apparently, hey, hey.

Speaker 6 (54:42):
Hey, old fashioned works. I would say, like, if you
really really like someone, do stuff that's.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Always going to make them happy. Do stuff that's always
going to make them smile, because then they will love you.
It doesn't matter about how you look, what your grier is.
If you're constantly like I am trying to prove you
that I'm the one and you're constantly working at that,
it's a never feel problems and like and as a guy,
I know what you want, no like, know the characteristics
that you want in a woman or a wife, and
be stepfast on that because if you compromise, I mean,

(55:09):
and no one listen.

Speaker 6 (55:10):
And I guess it's the eighty twenty rule for marriage.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
You're gonna love eighty percent, You're probably not gonna love
twenty percent, but everyone's gonna have about twenty percent of
the stuff that they don't love, so don't throw that
all away if they have the rest of the eighty.

Speaker 6 (55:20):
Percent, I would say, I would say, if somebody meets.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
That eighty percent and you know that you can build
a relationship with them, and you go all in for it,
don't don't delete thatly around. Hey, Like I had to
learn that mistake the hard way when I try to
go see my favorite baseball player on her birthday.

Speaker 6 (55:34):
But then I knew what I wanted.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
I knew what I wanted, So I would say, try
to constantly court her and sure that you really care
and appreciate her.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Oh that's great advice.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
I hope we have plenty of men listening, because I
think some guys need to hear what you just had
to say.

Speaker 6 (55:48):
Yes, treat her like a queen and like it's gonna
it is.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
It really is gonna make your life easier and you're
gonna have it.

Speaker 6 (55:54):
Ya, You'll have a very very loyal person on your hands.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
Oh it's great.

Speaker 4 (55:58):
Well, Ricky, any other last do you want to say?

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Is there anything you would like to say to the
page because she is probably gonna listen to this.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Oh man, Hey, thank you, thank you for putting up
with me. I know I'm annoying, so that that is,
that's probably it, because like I'll be gone like for
a couple days for work and then she's like, oh
my god, I miss you. Don't want to get back.
She's like, oh my gosh, I'm annoyed. I will try
to tone that down a little bit.

Speaker 6 (56:17):
Page.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
I see it constantly working.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Yeah, constantly working on my Hey, god's working on all
of us pages. Give me another ten years, I'll have
it under control.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Well, Ricky, thanks for coming on and being vulnerable and
opening up. It is good to sit down and chat
with you in this capacity.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
Yeah, not just his friends.

Speaker 6 (56:34):
Yeah, though, thank you.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
This was a lot more comfortable than I thought. Thank
you for Remy for being my emotional support.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
She's got you.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
But yeah, I love this setting, and I love what
you're doing, and thank you for having me on. You've
been a great friend. You should do a podcast on
you being a great friend.

Speaker 6 (56:47):
I can host it.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
I can listen all the super letters about Morgan why
she's a great friend.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
You know, I might just need that just yea.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
For myself exactly. Yeah, title it like, here's why I'm great.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
I want to need that, all right, Ricky, thank you, Yes,
thank you. I hope you all enjoyed the episode this week.
If you want me to tackle any particular topics, message
me on Instagram at take this personally, and if you're
liking these episodes, please subscribe to the podcast. I love y'all,

(57:19):
As the kids are saying on TikTok, I'll be back
next week to yap some more