What does it take to turn a passion for music into a legacy that resonates through generations? Join host Buzz Knight on this captivating episode of takin' a walk as he dives into a conversation with Harold Bronson, the co-founder of Rhino Records, one of the most iconic record labels in music history. Harold’s journey is not just a tale of success; it’s a vivid exploration of the vibrant music scene in Los Angeles during the early '70s, where he started as a rock and roll singer with his band Mogan David and his Winos.
Harold shares insights into the creative process behind Rhino Records and the label's unwavering commitment to preserving and celebrating music, especially the often-overlooked novelty records. The recently released album, Savage Young Winos, is a treasure trove of music that has remained unheard for over 50 years, and Harold reflects on the significance of this album in the context of his musical journey. This episode is a heartfelt tribute to the spirit of music as a joyful and integral part of life, showcasing how both Harold and the Rhino team have dedicated themselves to creating a lasting legacy.
As Buzz Knight navigates through the stories behind albums and the evolution of the music industry, listeners will gain valuable music history insights that highlight the impact of DIY trends and the importance of authenticity in music. This episode isn’t just for music aficionados; it offers a unique perspective on the indie music journey, the cultural impact of music, and the stories that shape the legendary musicians and songwriters we admire today.
Whether you’re a fan of classic rock history or looking to explore the music genres from Nashville, this episode of takin' a walk is packed with inspiring music stories, musician storytelling, and behind-the-music insights that will resonate with anyone who loves the art of music. Join us as we walk through Harold's Rhino Records journey and discover how the passion for music can lead to career breakthroughs and a profound connection with audiences worldwide.
Don’t miss this opportunity to hear from a true icon in the music industry. Tune in to Buzz Knight’s music history podcast where every episode is a celebration of music and community, and get ready to be inspired by the stories that have shaped our musical landscape.
#iconic musicians #legendary artists #rhino records #guitar mastery #music legends #inspiring icons #interviews with musicians #music history on foot #knight #walk #music history podcast #artistic reinvention #harold Bronson interview #songwriter stories #takin A walk nashville #buzzknight
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Taking a Walk on Buzzsnight and welcome to the Taking
a Walk Podcast. Now, you know, one of the things
that I love most about doing the show is discovering
that the people who shaped the music business were often
first and foremost music lovers themselves, fans who just couldn't
stay on the sidelines. My guest today is Harold Bronson.
(00:23):
Now you may know the name from Rhino Records, the
label he co founded with Richard fuz Back in nineteen
seventy three, starting with a single retail store in Los Angeles. Now,
over the next three decades, Harold and Richard built Rhino
into something truly special, a label that didn't just release music.
(00:44):
It rescued, it preserved, it celebrated it, box sets, rarities, compilations.
I absolutely love Rhino. Rhino became the place where the
records you thought were gone forever suddenly came back to life.
But here's the part of Harold's story that stopped me
cold when I read about this pitch. Before all of that,
(01:05):
before the label, before the legacy, Harold Bronson was a
rock and roll singer. He was the lead vocalist and
main songwriter of an early seventies a Los Angeles band
called Mogan David and His Whinos. And here's the thing,
nobody ever heard that music until now, fifty plus years later,
those recordings are finally getting their first proper release. It's
(01:29):
called Savage Young Whinos. So today we're going to do
something I always love. We're going to go back to
the beginning. We're going to talk about what it felt
like to be a young musician in Los Angeles in
the early seventies, what the band meant to Harold, and
why this music is worth hearing right now. And then
we're going to get into Rhino, one of the great
(01:50):
label stories in American music history. Harold Bronson is next
on Taking a Walk, Taking a Walk. Harold Bronson, Welcome
to the Take Out a Walk Podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Hi happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So for people who've never heard of Mogan David and
his Winos, I love the name. I must say I
consumed at one point set the scene. What was the band,
when did it come together? And what was the sound
that you were going for?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Okay, well, first of all, I had a group in
high school. We never played anywhere. It was just for
you know, our own amusement, mostly during the summer, kind
of you know, butchering the hits of the day. But
when I was at UCLA, this would have been my
second year, I was writing for the UCLA Daily Bruin
(02:47):
in the entertainment section, more specifically about music, and other
people who also wrote played instruments. I decided I got
it into my head of making a record. So over
the Christmas break, four of us got together in the
piano players his parents or his family's living room. The
(03:08):
other three of us were writers for the Daily Bruin.
Jim Bickhart played bass. He was my editor, Jonathan Kellerman,
who subsequently became a New York Times best selling author.
He played guitar. I played drums. And I always loved
this song from Mad Magazine. You know, Mad Magazine was
really important to my and other generations as far as
(03:33):
educating us in the way of humor and satire and parody.
And I loved No's job. And at the time that
came out, I guess it was probably nineteen sixty two
sixty three, plastic surgery was, you know, more of a
subtle thing. People didn't necessarily wanted to know that they
(03:54):
had those jobs, so they you know, so there was
this like an outrageous song. I just loved it. Theirs
was done in a do wop style. Ours we did,
you know, straight ahead, I was thinking. I was thinking
Mick Jagger, not that I wanted to sound like him,
but I was singing these ridiculous lyrics. But you know,
just deadpan. She never had a boy to a walker
(04:18):
or home. You know, she never had a boy who
cared until she had her schnas repaired that type of thing.
And then and then we did a B side, and
the problem was my tape recorder, my two track tape recorder,
the sinking mechanism malfunction, meaning that when I played back
the instrumental track, the vocal track couldn't sink. So I
(04:42):
kind of like held on to the tape for many months,
like what do I do with this? And then the
next fall or the end of the summer the next
school year, three of my friends from high school who
were also UCLA, we rented an apartment in the UCLA
area directly across the hall. You know, our doors were
(05:04):
open directly across the hall. Comedian George Carlin with his family.
Now he wasn't that well known then because he was
in transition from kind of the straight established, short hair comedian.
He played Vegas, he got fired from Vegas and to
you know, morphing into the long hair hippie comedian who
(05:24):
you know, transitioned to less enumeration playing clubs. But anyway,
we hit it off because I was the hip music guy.
He was in the rock and roll. I mean, I
didn't know any of this, but getting to know him
when he was a lot younger, he was a DJ.
He loved music, he loved doop. So for me it
would be like, oh, you know what you know, what's
(05:47):
what's new? Or have you heard this band? And from
him I was more injured. We talked about Lenny Bruce
because Lenny Bruce's recordings were not available then, so it
was kind of a nice friendship. But he wasn't a
much because he was on the road and when typically
when he would be home, not only would he want
to be with his family, but he would be you know, writing.
(06:09):
He liked writing. So I borrowed his long shorts, I
borrowed his tape recorder, and I finished off the record
and a few months later we pressed it. So that
was the first record, and then I did a subsequent
single with a slightly different group of musicians, also from
(06:29):
the Daily Bruin, so those were privately pressed, and then
we recorded a third single. But the first those jobs
sold well. The second one, Street Baby, which was a
better record, but you know, straight record sold like less
than half as much. So for the third single, I thought,
(06:50):
rather than put out a third single, maybe I could
get more mileage, more attention by putting out an album.
And the Who's Lived leads had come out, and aside
from the live recording of this concert, they had all
these inserts from the history of the band inserts, so
I thought, oh, let's do like what they did, but
(07:11):
in our case, in some you know, we made fun
of the band. So we had Paul Rappaport, the new
guitar player, his failed music test at UCLA, you know,
a big f on it. So we did things like that.
So we made an interesting package and we got a
lot of attention. That came out in August nineteen seventy three.
This album was kind of like the fifty year and
(07:34):
a plus three year you know, reunion of this album.
And I really, you know, I didn't initiate doing this originally,
prior to Liberation Hall, you know, making the deal for this.
I was contacted by this guy in Australia who had
a small label, and he was saying, oh yeah, I
(07:57):
bought The Savage Young Linos by Morgan Day as Winos.
I bought the album at a record meet and I
always loved it and at some point a roommate made
off with it and I've been thinking about it. So
basically he got in touch because he wanted to reissue
it on his small label, and we went back and
forth for about a year. That didn't happen, and then
(08:19):
a year later a Liberation Hall contacted me and through
the process. So I'm really happy with how it's turned out.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That is such a saka. My goodness. Now I want
to go back to you mention of Paul Rappaport, my
dear friend who's been on this podcast before and worked
me many a record when he was working with the
Columbia great guy. He was he part of this band?
Did you say that? Or was he part of another incarnation?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
He was an important part of the band. So Kellerman,
who was on the first record, he went off to
grad school so he didn't have time for us anymore.
So I met Paul when he was the college rep
for CBS Records at UCLA, and we became friends, and
in fact, when he graduated, I then became the college
(09:13):
rep after him. He got me that position. But yes,
so an important part of the band. You know, a
great guitar player, and he's on a more majority of
the tracks on the album. So and I just think
he's great and it's a lot of fun working with
(09:34):
him in general. But yeah, I mean, aside from you
just being a guitar that a really creative guy. I
mean just yeah, so and.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
One of the great guys, and quite a magician and
card player or card trickery guy as well, but just
a wonderful, wonderful guy. Love his book. That's fantastic. So
so here we are. It's fifty plus years later, Liberation Hall.
You did the deal when you went back and forth
(10:07):
and kind of listened to the recordings again, Was it
all pride? Was there a little bit of cringe? Was
it nostalgia? Was it a little mixture of it all?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Tell me a little mixture. But first all, yeah, the
context of this, and there's significance for two reasons. One
is the two singles in the album that I originally
put out in the early seventies. This anticipated the DIY
trend you know, a few years later. And then secondly,
(10:42):
this gave me the wherewithal as it related to forming
the Rhino label. So I said to Richard Fuss, who
owned the store, I said, look, you know, I put
out these two singles and album. I know how to
do this. Let's start a label in the back room
of the store. So we started, you know, really slowly,
and then when we ramped up, we went in partners
(11:04):
and went to our our own location. So you know,
that's the significance of this. But but I think, you know,
in the context, it's really authentic, which is to say,
on the live tracks, you know, it's really us as
you well know, a lot of you know, live recordings,
you know people the musicians going later, they fix this,
(11:26):
they are the bass isn't very good, let me replace it.
So a lot of live recordings are you know, finagled
with in the studio. So this is all the live
stuff is all straight, and and the other thing is
it's a little bit rough again and kind of anticipating
what happened later on the decade. But I think it's
really good because our orientation was we love the music
(11:51):
from the sixties, you know, the rock band stuff from
the sixties. You know, we grew up with the Beatles
and the Rolling Stones, but of course the Who and
the Yardbirds, the Kinks, so that was fun for us.
And when we were playing out, most of our set
were from the you know, from that era, and nobody
in the Los Angeles area, nobody was doing it. So
(12:13):
people really enjoyed us because they would hear you know,
you really got me by the Kinks or just like
Me by Paul Revere and the Raiders, and nobody was
doing that. And then you know, we were you know,
we had a few originals. I mean, you know, those
are the part of the set as well. So what
I'm saying is that in the in this period it
(12:36):
was kind of like progressive and jamming bands Who of
His Big Band, Santana, the Alman Brothers. Yes, I mean,
we weren't anything like that. So by by myself and
my co writer Mark Levitton kind of crafting the songs
like the two and a half and three minute singles
we grew up with. You know, they're really enjoyable because
(12:58):
they're really well thought out. They're not kind of long
meanderan things. So yeah, so in putting it together, really
enjoying listening to it. I think the stuff is really good.
But at the same time, because we were really low budget,
in and out of the studio really quickly, they're not polished,
(13:19):
but it's real.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
And that was ultimately, as you referenced, that was the
core of what Rhino was all about when you launched
as a label in seventy five. The early releases. Maybe
talk about some of those early releases. They were very
eclectic releases, and yet you gave the freedom, certainly to
(13:45):
artists to be themselves and be real.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Okay, So we experimented with a few singles, and we
date the label from nineteen seventy eight because that's when
we made more of a serious commitment by putting out albums,
you know, more expensive manufacturing than mere singles. In the
first year, the three things we were going for actually
(14:14):
remained consistent, but in different levels. So we love the
novelty records. We grew up with Alan Sherman and Purple
People and all that, and of course you know knows job.
So the first year, our most successful record we get
in an EP of the Temple City kazoo orchestra, so
kazoo versions of rock and roll songs. It got airplay
(14:36):
a little bit here and there. Much later we heard
from Lawrence Jewber, who was in Wings Paul McCartney's group,
that Paul McCartney was like, you know, looking all over
London for a copy. So that was nineteen seventy eight.
We also put out we supported local bands Los Angeles
area bands, and a little bit into the reissues. But
(14:59):
to do most of the reissues we had to pay
advances to the major labels in advance against royalties earned,
and it took a while for us to accumulate some
extra money to do that, so that was kind of slow.
Ultimately that's worked out best for us because local radio
didn't you know, support the bands. They didn't play, you
(15:21):
don't get the airplay. As you well know, you don't
sell records. Novelty radio tightened up, they stopped playing that sort.
So the only thing that really worked for us were
they were reissues. But the difference for us is the
major labels, if they had some of this out, they
would try to squeeze out a little bit extra profit
(15:42):
of these older masters. For us, it was this music
was important to us growing up. We've got to let's
make it, you know, sound really good, in some cases
better than when we you know, then the original records
track down rare photos, having sideful liner notes. So we
were really the first ones to approach this on a
consistent basis with quality in mind. And that's really what
(16:05):
built the business. There were a lot of people who
felt like us and appreciated what we did, and you know,
it was a slow build, but it was a build nonetheless,
and that's really what I built the business. I should,
you know, plug the Rhino Record story book, where you know,
the whole story of the Rhino label is in there,
including a lot of the wacky things we did.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Morning show radio, which I did back when when Rhino
was was first beginning. Morning show radio really benefited from
so many of these novelty songs that just became, you know,
the fabric of some of these morning shows. Some might say,
you know, maybe it really bailed us out because we
(16:58):
didn't have this tremendou this talent as morning shows. But
you gave us a lot of great music to be
able to play to kind of have this backdrop for
local radio, and it just puts a smile on my
face thinking about so many of those songs.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
You know, well, you know our orientations, you know, growing
up with music in the fifties and sixties, a lot
of it was fun and spirited and of quart silly,
and you know, well into the seventies, you know, the
music business became much a bigger business, and it was
like everybody was so serious. We felt, you know, it
(17:35):
was really lacking. I mean on a different level. You know,
think of like somebody like Little Richard. If you weren't
familiar with Little Richard and you heard his records, he
almost sounds like a cartoon character. So you know, that's
what I'm saying. The spirit, the fun. Jerry Lee Lewis
is another one. So it's not to say we were
making records like that, but a lot of our orientation
was we just felt that the you know, fun was
(17:58):
missing from rock and roll. But like I said, we
didn't get enough airplay to you know, to sustain that.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
But it was an incredible sense of differentiation that Rhino
really had compared to the rest of the landscape, which
was certainly chasing, you know, chasing hits and trying to
you know, build them into the next generation of hits.
But that sense of humor was so incredible. What were
some of the comedy albums that Rhino also put out
(18:28):
during that period.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
I mean by comedians or over Yeah, okay, well not
this isn't the same thing. But the first best of
album we put out was by Alan Sherman. I was
for Richard and myself and other people like weird Al Yankovic,
you know, really important, really important to us. And again
(18:50):
also as it relates to not only parody but satire.
So Alan Sherman, what he was singing about wasn't mere,
oh this is a funny song. It was commenting on
you know, what was happening in society, is it was progressing,
(19:11):
So it was you know, there was a real good subject.
So I mean one of the first ones we put
out there was a Rodney Dangerfield album that he recorded
as Rodney Dangerfield before he became big. That was out
of print, you know, so we put that out. That
did well. We had a long term relation with the Turtles.
(19:32):
We reissued their catalog, We put out some of the
Flow and Eddy albums. Howard Kalin and Mark Vohman just
love those guys. At one point they were into craft work,
but their version of that was the little Cassio mini
kind of dinky toy that that made music in it.
(19:53):
That's similar to the big computer things the craft for.
So they would they composed this stuff and we did
a record with it was an EP like we made
up this German group called Salts and Theeffer Salt and Pepper, right,
and we put the we put out that the album
was in German, German and English. We made it look
(20:14):
like you know, we called it the group checkpoint Charlie.
But anyway, I cut the record so that you put
the needle not on the end when you normally would,
You put it where the label was, and it played
out so it kind of played backwards physically. So I'm
(20:34):
saying is we would be creative. We would do this stuff.
You know, most of the time we didn't get really
the attention or the appreciation like wow, look at look
at how great this is. But that's at least an
example of some of the stuff that we you know,
that we did.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
So you were co president from seventy three all the
way to two thousand and one, almost three decades, and
is a one project in particular that sticks out that
you're just so immensely proud of.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Well, you know, it's a there's so many things that
we did. The main thing would be the Monkeys. Originally
we were licensors. I made that licensing deal and then
in a certain point we were able to buy the
rights to the catalog and the name, so I kind
of on a marketing level a quarterback. Then. Obviously there's
(21:33):
other people involved, a lot of people who were you know,
who did it. But for me, it was a matter of, okay,
every like six to eight months, let's put something in
the marketplace to remind people of the Monkeys, you know,
from oh, here's this special album or this album package too.
We did a documentary with the Disney Channel, and then
(21:54):
then we did the video box set, which before DVD
was on VHS, we made it looked like a TV box.
That was that so really well that was special. Or
then I did a docu drama with VH one that
was that came out in two thousand. So that's what
(22:15):
I'm saying is a matter of it was because I
was such a big fan, you know, the fandom, the
it just it generated all these ideas because like what
can we do to you know, expose this great music
and the TV show to people, and how do we
remind people of how, you know, how good it was.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
So Warner Music Group acquired Rhino in the nineties. What
year was that that that acquisition occurred.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Well, the initial thing was we did a joint venture
with Atlantic Records. Atlantic Records of course part of the
Warner Music Group, and then that was in nineteen ninety
two and the main reason why we did that was
we had access to their catalog to reissue on Rhino.
So it wasn't like the top line stuff. It wasn't
(23:06):
like Led Zeppelin and Crosby Stills, A Nash and you know,
Emersilinka Palmer, but it was still good stuff. It was
Wretha Franklin and the Rascals and you know Stacks. I
mean a lot of things. And anyway, there was kind
of a formula involved. But that triggered in nineteen ninety
eight is when they became one hundred percent owners. And
(23:31):
I think we had like contracts like four years or
four years remaining on our contract. So at the so
I left, you know, towards the end of two thousand
and one. Richard left a few months later. We were
doing really well. So obviously, if you remember illegal downloading
sales within the industry were in decline, and you know,
(23:55):
the record of the labels are having difficulty. Ours were
still ascending, Our sales were up, our profits were up.
So I think Richard and I would have liked to
have at least extended by at least a year or so.
But the new head of the Warner Music Group want
did his own person in there, and you know, just
to somebody who was beholden to him, not necessarily somebody
(24:22):
or two people who were you know, successful aside from him.
So anyway, but the driving thing to us was never
really the money. It was always the music.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
It's like like, oh wow, we can put this out,
or let's try and do this, or here's an idea.
The company was really well run. We treated our employees
really well as you could, you know, ask Emily, and
so I think the benefit was, you know, the financial,
It was never really the initial goal.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
So you've had this this really fascinating career, your music
writing aspect of your career and being a critic and
then watching as a musician and watching the music industry
transform dramatically from the whole vinyl to cassette, the CD
to digital to streaming from your perch, what has the
(25:15):
industry gotten right and where has it gone wrong? And
how it treats its own history.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Well, So initially, you know, you have to think popular
music going way back, but it was always of the
immediate time, so you would try to get a hit
if you had to hit great, and as it was
going down the charts, you were thinking the next hit,
trying to get the next hit. So the catalog and
(25:45):
the history really wasn't valued that much until I think
we at least changed some minds and put a different
like focused on And so in a sense, I think
we created this whole industry because other labels saw how
well we were doing and they started their own little
(26:07):
boutique reissue labels and focusing more on quality. So music
fans everywhere benefited from something we started. But as it
relates to today, on one hand, streaming is great because
if you want to hear something, more likely than not
(26:27):
you have access you could find I wonder what this
sounds like? I heard this? Let me listen to it
again and you know, before determining whether you want to
make a purchase or not. But the difference for us
is we were trying to enhance the music experience. So
it wasn't only you know, here's the album, here's the song.
(26:48):
It was you know, let's deepen your understanding of you know,
what you're hearing. And by the way, this relates to
Savage Young Winos by Mogan David and his Whinos. So
in the new album, not only do you have well
here's the music, you have like a lot of photos
(27:08):
and you have the equivalent of the inserts I mentioned.
You have a couple crazy fan letters, you know, you
have you know, odd things. But also I have lengthy
I did new liner notes that give you the background
behind a lot of this stuff with you know, funny
little stories like on those job with Kellerman surf instrumental
(27:33):
Life thought, oh, you know, the Beach Boys have a
new label, Brother Records. You know, maybe the Beach Boys
would like to like the surf thing and don't want
to put it out, you know. Then you know, like,
oh but Dennis Wilson didn't like it, you know, little
things like that in there. So yeah, I just really like,
by the way, anybody could hear a song, then they
could enjoy it and they can take it on that
(27:54):
level and it can go no further than that, and
that's great. But if you kind of want to know, well,
what's behind the song and you know what's why did
the Beatles use these these terms or or like okay
specifically the Beatles, but a day in the life, what's that? Well,
(28:14):
now we know the story and John Lennon was reading
the newspaper and you know their friend Tara Brown who
wiped out in the car crashed. And you know what
I'm saying is that you don't need to know any
of that in order to enjoy it, but it's nice
to know it. It enhances that it gives it sort
of it's a deeper experience. So anyway, long and short
(28:35):
of it is I think you know that's declined in
a sense because of you know, streaming.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
So before we close it out, Harold, since we call
this podcast taking a walk, I wanted you to suspend
belief here and reach back and think if you could
take a walk with somebody living or dead, or a
couple different people, who would you take a walk with
and where would you take that that saunter with them.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Well, I did think about that, okay, because on on
the website to listen to some of the shows. So
so here's the thing, you know, pragmatically, good friend of
mine for many years is Peter Noon from Herman's Hermits,
And in fact, in the new album there's a little
one of the songs I wrote for him he didn't like,
(29:28):
but that's that's in the album and there's a little
story about it. I'm not going to go into it now.
But I don't see him very often. You know, sometimes
we'll get together for lunch because you know, I'm in
Los Angeles. He lives in Santa Barbara. But on a
couple occasions, you know, I've said, oh, let's walk together,
which we never have. But we have had sort of
(29:50):
some chats when he's been walking and you know, and
I've been walking, but it's just kind of been haphazard.
So so even though I offered, like I come out
to Santa Barbara, let's go for a walk, we've sort
of never done that. So I would like to have
a walk with Peter Noon. I'd come to Santa Barbara
because we've never done that together.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Fantastic This has been so great. Harold, congrats on Savage
Young winos out for people to go find it. By
the time this podcast will be out via Liberation Hall.
An amazing career, still going strong, Harold Bronson, thanks for
being on Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Thank you buzz.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
I'm Buzznight, and thanks for listening to the Taking a
Walk podcast. Now. Please check out our companion podcasts produced
by Buzznight Media Productions with your host Lynn Hoffman. Music
Save Me showcasing the healing power of music, and comedy
Save Me shining a light on how laughter is the
best medicine. All shows are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify
(30:58):
and are part of the iHeart podcast network.
Taking a Walk on Buzzsnight and welcome to the Taking
a Walk Podcast. Now, you know, one of the things
that I love most about doing the show is discovering
that the people who shaped the music business were often
first and foremost music lovers themselves, fans who just couldn't
stay on the sidelines. My guest today is Harold Bronson.
(00:23):
Now you may know the name from Rhino Records, the
label he co founded with Richard fuz Back in nineteen
seventy three, starting with a single retail store in Los Angeles. Now,
over the next three decades, Harold and Richard built Rhino
into something truly special, a label that didn't just release music.
(00:44):
It rescued, it preserved, it celebrated it, box sets, rarities, compilations.
I absolutely love Rhino. Rhino became the place where the
records you thought were gone forever suddenly came back to life.
But here's the part of Harold's story that stopped me
cold when I read about this pitch. Before all of that,
(01:05):
before the label, before the legacy, Harold Bronson was a
rock and roll singer. He was the lead vocalist and
main songwriter of an early seventies a Los Angeles band
called Mogan David and His Whinos. And here's the thing,
nobody ever heard that music until now, fifty plus years later,
those recordings are finally getting their first proper release. It's
(01:29):
called Savage Young Whinos. So today we're going to do
something I always love. We're going to go back to
the beginning. We're going to talk about what it felt
like to be a young musician in Los Angeles in
the early seventies, what the band meant to Harold, and
why this music is worth hearing right now. And then
we're going to get into Rhino, one of the great
(01:50):
label stories in American music history. Harold Bronson is next
on Taking a Walk, Taking a Walk. Harold Bronson, Welcome
to the Take Out a Walk Podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Hi happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So for people who've never heard of Mogan David and
his Winos, I love the name. I must say I
consumed at one point set the scene. What was the band,
when did it come together? And what was the sound
that you were going for?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Okay, well, first of all, I had a group in
high school. We never played anywhere. It was just for
you know, our own amusement, mostly during the summer, kind
of you know, butchering the hits of the day. But
when I was at UCLA, this would have been my
second year, I was writing for the UCLA Daily Bruin
(02:47):
in the entertainment section, more specifically about music, and other
people who also wrote played instruments. I decided I got
it into my head of making a record. So over
the Christmas break, four of us got together in the
piano players his parents or his family's living room. The
(03:08):
other three of us were writers for the Daily Bruin.
Jim Bickhart played bass. He was my editor, Jonathan Kellerman,
who subsequently became a New York Times best selling author.
He played guitar. I played drums. And I always loved
this song from Mad Magazine. You know, Mad Magazine was
really important to my and other generations as far as
(03:33):
educating us in the way of humor and satire and parody.
And I loved No's job. And at the time that
came out, I guess it was probably nineteen sixty two
sixty three, plastic surgery was, you know, more of a
subtle thing. People didn't necessarily wanted to know that they
(03:54):
had those jobs, so they you know, so there was
this like an outrageous song. I just loved it. Theirs
was done in a do wop style. Ours we did,
you know, straight ahead, I was thinking. I was thinking
Mick Jagger, not that I wanted to sound like him,
but I was singing these ridiculous lyrics. But you know,
just deadpan. She never had a boy to a walker
(04:18):
or home. You know, she never had a boy who
cared until she had her schnas repaired that type of thing.
And then and then we did a B side, and
the problem was my tape recorder, my two track tape recorder,
the sinking mechanism malfunction, meaning that when I played back
the instrumental track, the vocal track couldn't sink. So I
(04:42):
kind of like held on to the tape for many months,
like what do I do with this? And then the
next fall or the end of the summer the next
school year, three of my friends from high school who
were also UCLA, we rented an apartment in the UCLA
area directly across the hall. You know, our doors were
(05:04):
open directly across the hall. Comedian George Carlin with his family.
Now he wasn't that well known then because he was
in transition from kind of the straight established, short hair comedian.
He played Vegas, he got fired from Vegas and to
you know, morphing into the long hair hippie comedian who
(05:24):
you know, transitioned to less enumeration playing clubs. But anyway,
we hit it off because I was the hip music guy.
He was in the rock and roll. I mean, I
didn't know any of this, but getting to know him
when he was a lot younger, he was a DJ.
He loved music, he loved doop. So for me it
would be like, oh, you know what you know, what's
(05:47):
what's new? Or have you heard this band? And from
him I was more injured. We talked about Lenny Bruce
because Lenny Bruce's recordings were not available then, so it
was kind of a nice friendship. But he wasn't a
much because he was on the road and when typically
when he would be home, not only would he want
to be with his family, but he would be you know, writing.
(06:09):
He liked writing. So I borrowed his long shorts, I
borrowed his tape recorder, and I finished off the record
and a few months later we pressed it. So that
was the first record, and then I did a subsequent
single with a slightly different group of musicians, also from
(06:29):
the Daily Bruin, so those were privately pressed, and then
we recorded a third single. But the first those jobs
sold well. The second one, Street Baby, which was a
better record, but you know, straight record sold like less
than half as much. So for the third single, I thought,
(06:50):
rather than put out a third single, maybe I could
get more mileage, more attention by putting out an album.
And the Who's Lived leads had come out, and aside
from the live recording of this concert, they had all
these inserts from the history of the band inserts, so
I thought, oh, let's do like what they did, but
(07:11):
in our case, in some you know, we made fun
of the band. So we had Paul Rappaport, the new
guitar player, his failed music test at UCLA, you know,
a big f on it. So we did things like that.
So we made an interesting package and we got a
lot of attention. That came out in August nineteen seventy three.
This album was kind of like the fifty year and
(07:34):
a plus three year you know, reunion of this album.
And I really, you know, I didn't initiate doing this originally,
prior to Liberation Hall, you know, making the deal for this.
I was contacted by this guy in Australia who had
a small label, and he was saying, oh yeah, I
(07:57):
bought The Savage Young Linos by Morgan Day as Winos.
I bought the album at a record meet and I
always loved it and at some point a roommate made
off with it and I've been thinking about it. So
basically he got in touch because he wanted to reissue
it on his small label, and we went back and
forth for about a year. That didn't happen, and then
(08:19):
a year later a Liberation Hall contacted me and through
the process. So I'm really happy with how it's turned out.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That is such a saka. My goodness. Now I want
to go back to you mention of Paul Rappaport, my
dear friend who's been on this podcast before and worked
me many a record when he was working with the
Columbia great guy. He was he part of this band?
Did you say that? Or was he part of another incarnation?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
He was an important part of the band. So Kellerman,
who was on the first record, he went off to
grad school so he didn't have time for us anymore.
So I met Paul when he was the college rep
for CBS Records at UCLA, and we became friends, and
in fact, when he graduated, I then became the college
(09:13):
rep after him. He got me that position. But yes,
so an important part of the band. You know, a
great guitar player, and he's on a more majority of
the tracks on the album. So and I just think
he's great and it's a lot of fun working with
(09:34):
him in general. But yeah, I mean, aside from you
just being a guitar that a really creative guy. I
mean just yeah, so and.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
One of the great guys, and quite a magician and
card player or card trickery guy as well, but just
a wonderful, wonderful guy. Love his book. That's fantastic. So
so here we are. It's fifty plus years later, Liberation Hall.
You did the deal when you went back and forth
(10:07):
and kind of listened to the recordings again, Was it
all pride? Was there a little bit of cringe? Was
it nostalgia? Was it a little mixture of it all?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Tell me a little mixture. But first all, yeah, the
context of this, and there's significance for two reasons. One
is the two singles in the album that I originally
put out in the early seventies. This anticipated the DIY
trend you know, a few years later. And then secondly,
(10:42):
this gave me the wherewithal as it related to forming
the Rhino label. So I said to Richard Fuss, who
owned the store, I said, look, you know, I put
out these two singles and album. I know how to
do this. Let's start a label in the back room
of the store. So we started, you know, really slowly,
and then when we ramped up, we went in partners
(11:04):
and went to our our own location. So you know,
that's the significance of this. But but I think, you know,
in the context, it's really authentic, which is to say,
on the live tracks, you know, it's really us as
you well know, a lot of you know, live recordings,
you know people the musicians going later, they fix this,
(11:26):
they are the bass isn't very good, let me replace it.
So a lot of live recordings are you know, finagled
with in the studio. So this is all the live
stuff is all straight, and and the other thing is
it's a little bit rough again and kind of anticipating
what happened later on the decade. But I think it's
really good because our orientation was we love the music
(11:51):
from the sixties, you know, the rock band stuff from
the sixties. You know, we grew up with the Beatles
and the Rolling Stones, but of course the Who and
the Yardbirds, the Kinks, so that was fun for us.
And when we were playing out, most of our set
were from the you know, from that era, and nobody
in the Los Angeles area, nobody was doing it. So
(12:13):
people really enjoyed us because they would hear you know,
you really got me by the Kinks or just like
Me by Paul Revere and the Raiders, and nobody was
doing that. And then you know, we were you know,
we had a few originals. I mean, you know, those
are the part of the set as well. So what
I'm saying is that in the in this period it
(12:36):
was kind of like progressive and jamming bands Who of
His Big Band, Santana, the Alman Brothers. Yes, I mean,
we weren't anything like that. So by by myself and
my co writer Mark Levitton kind of crafting the songs
like the two and a half and three minute singles
we grew up with. You know, they're really enjoyable because
(12:58):
they're really well thought out. They're not kind of long
meanderan things. So yeah, so in putting it together, really
enjoying listening to it. I think the stuff is really good.
But at the same time, because we were really low budget,
in and out of the studio really quickly, they're not polished,
(13:19):
but it's real.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
And that was ultimately, as you referenced, that was the
core of what Rhino was all about when you launched
as a label in seventy five. The early releases. Maybe
talk about some of those early releases. They were very
eclectic releases, and yet you gave the freedom, certainly to
(13:45):
artists to be themselves and be real.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Okay, So we experimented with a few singles, and we
date the label from nineteen seventy eight because that's when
we made more of a serious commitment by putting out albums,
you know, more expensive manufacturing than mere singles. In the
first year, the three things we were going for actually
(14:14):
remained consistent, but in different levels. So we love the
novelty records. We grew up with Alan Sherman and Purple
People and all that, and of course you know knows job.
So the first year, our most successful record we get
in an EP of the Temple City kazoo orchestra, so
kazoo versions of rock and roll songs. It got airplay
(14:36):
a little bit here and there. Much later we heard
from Lawrence Jewber, who was in Wings Paul McCartney's group,
that Paul McCartney was like, you know, looking all over
London for a copy. So that was nineteen seventy eight.
We also put out we supported local bands Los Angeles
area bands, and a little bit into the reissues. But
(14:59):
to do most of the reissues we had to pay
advances to the major labels in advance against royalties earned,
and it took a while for us to accumulate some
extra money to do that, so that was kind of slow.
Ultimately that's worked out best for us because local radio
didn't you know, support the bands. They didn't play, you
(15:21):
don't get the airplay. As you well know, you don't
sell records. Novelty radio tightened up, they stopped playing that sort.
So the only thing that really worked for us were
they were reissues. But the difference for us is the
major labels, if they had some of this out, they
would try to squeeze out a little bit extra profit
(15:42):
of these older masters. For us, it was this music
was important to us growing up. We've got to let's
make it, you know, sound really good, in some cases
better than when we you know, then the original records
track down rare photos, having sideful liner notes. So we
were really the first ones to approach this on a
consistent basis with quality in mind. And that's really what
(16:05):
built the business. There were a lot of people who
felt like us and appreciated what we did, and you know,
it was a slow build, but it was a build nonetheless,
and that's really what I built the business. I should,
you know, plug the Rhino Record story book, where you know,
the whole story of the Rhino label is in there,
including a lot of the wacky things we did.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Morning show radio, which I did back when when Rhino
was was first beginning. Morning show radio really benefited from
so many of these novelty songs that just became, you know,
the fabric of some of these morning shows. Some might say,
you know, maybe it really bailed us out because we
(16:58):
didn't have this tremendou this talent as morning shows. But
you gave us a lot of great music to be
able to play to kind of have this backdrop for
local radio, and it just puts a smile on my
face thinking about so many of those songs.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
You know, well, you know our orientations, you know, growing
up with music in the fifties and sixties, a lot
of it was fun and spirited and of quart silly,
and you know, well into the seventies, you know, the
music business became much a bigger business, and it was
like everybody was so serious. We felt, you know, it
(17:35):
was really lacking. I mean on a different level. You know,
think of like somebody like Little Richard. If you weren't
familiar with Little Richard and you heard his records, he
almost sounds like a cartoon character. So you know, that's
what I'm saying. The spirit, the fun. Jerry Lee Lewis
is another one. So it's not to say we were
making records like that, but a lot of our orientation
was we just felt that the you know, fun was
(17:58):
missing from rock and roll. But like I said, we
didn't get enough airplay to you know, to sustain that.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
But it was an incredible sense of differentiation that Rhino
really had compared to the rest of the landscape, which
was certainly chasing, you know, chasing hits and trying to
you know, build them into the next generation of hits.
But that sense of humor was so incredible. What were
some of the comedy albums that Rhino also put out
(18:28):
during that period.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
I mean by comedians or over Yeah, okay, well not
this isn't the same thing. But the first best of
album we put out was by Alan Sherman. I was
for Richard and myself and other people like weird Al Yankovic,
you know, really important, really important to us. And again
(18:50):
also as it relates to not only parody but satire.
So Alan Sherman, what he was singing about wasn't mere,
oh this is a funny song. It was commenting on
you know, what was happening in society, is it was progressing,
(19:11):
So it was you know, there was a real good subject.
So I mean one of the first ones we put
out there was a Rodney Dangerfield album that he recorded
as Rodney Dangerfield before he became big. That was out
of print, you know, so we put that out. That
did well. We had a long term relation with the Turtles.
(19:32):
We reissued their catalog, We put out some of the
Flow and Eddy albums. Howard Kalin and Mark Vohman just
love those guys. At one point they were into craft work,
but their version of that was the little Cassio mini
kind of dinky toy that that made music in it.
(19:53):
That's similar to the big computer things the craft for.
So they would they composed this stuff and we did
a record with it was an EP like we made
up this German group called Salts and Theeffer Salt and Pepper, right,
and we put the we put out that the album
was in German, German and English. We made it look
(20:14):
like you know, we called it the group checkpoint Charlie.
But anyway, I cut the record so that you put
the needle not on the end when you normally would,
You put it where the label was, and it played
out so it kind of played backwards physically. So I'm
(20:34):
saying is we would be creative. We would do this stuff.
You know, most of the time we didn't get really
the attention or the appreciation like wow, look at look
at how great this is. But that's at least an
example of some of the stuff that we you know,
that we did.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
So you were co president from seventy three all the
way to two thousand and one, almost three decades, and
is a one project in particular that sticks out that
you're just so immensely proud of.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Well, you know, it's a there's so many things that
we did. The main thing would be the Monkeys. Originally
we were licensors. I made that licensing deal and then
in a certain point we were able to buy the
rights to the catalog and the name, so I kind
of on a marketing level a quarterback. Then. Obviously there's
(21:33):
other people involved, a lot of people who were you know,
who did it. But for me, it was a matter of, okay,
every like six to eight months, let's put something in
the marketplace to remind people of the Monkeys, you know,
from oh, here's this special album or this album package too.
We did a documentary with the Disney Channel, and then
(21:54):
then we did the video box set, which before DVD
was on VHS, we made it looked like a TV box.
That was that so really well that was special. Or
then I did a docu drama with VH one that
was that came out in two thousand. So that's what
(22:15):
I'm saying is a matter of it was because I
was such a big fan, you know, the fandom, the
it just it generated all these ideas because like what
can we do to you know, expose this great music
and the TV show to people, and how do we
remind people of how, you know, how good it was.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
So Warner Music Group acquired Rhino in the nineties. What
year was that that that acquisition occurred.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Well, the initial thing was we did a joint venture
with Atlantic Records. Atlantic Records of course part of the
Warner Music Group, and then that was in nineteen ninety
two and the main reason why we did that was
we had access to their catalog to reissue on Rhino.
So it wasn't like the top line stuff. It wasn't
(23:06):
like Led Zeppelin and Crosby Stills, A Nash and you know,
Emersilinka Palmer, but it was still good stuff. It was
Wretha Franklin and the Rascals and you know Stacks. I
mean a lot of things. And anyway, there was kind
of a formula involved. But that triggered in nineteen ninety
eight is when they became one hundred percent owners. And
(23:31):
I think we had like contracts like four years or
four years remaining on our contract. So at the so
I left, you know, towards the end of two thousand
and one. Richard left a few months later. We were
doing really well. So obviously, if you remember illegal downloading
sales within the industry were in decline, and you know,
(23:55):
the record of the labels are having difficulty. Ours were
still ascending, Our sales were up, our profits were up.
So I think Richard and I would have liked to
have at least extended by at least a year or so.
But the new head of the Warner Music Group want
did his own person in there, and you know, just
to somebody who was beholden to him, not necessarily somebody
(24:22):
or two people who were you know, successful aside from him.
So anyway, but the driving thing to us was never
really the money. It was always the music.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
It's like like, oh wow, we can put this out,
or let's try and do this, or here's an idea.
The company was really well run. We treated our employees
really well as you could, you know, ask Emily, and
so I think the benefit was, you know, the financial,
It was never really the initial goal.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
So you've had this this really fascinating career, your music
writing aspect of your career and being a critic and
then watching as a musician and watching the music industry
transform dramatically from the whole vinyl to cassette, the CD
to digital to streaming from your perch, what has the
(25:15):
industry gotten right and where has it gone wrong? And
how it treats its own history.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Well, So initially, you know, you have to think popular
music going way back, but it was always of the
immediate time, so you would try to get a hit
if you had to hit great, and as it was
going down the charts, you were thinking the next hit,
trying to get the next hit. So the catalog and
(25:45):
the history really wasn't valued that much until I think
we at least changed some minds and put a different
like focused on And so in a sense, I think
we created this whole industry because other labels saw how
well we were doing and they started their own little
(26:07):
boutique reissue labels and focusing more on quality. So music
fans everywhere benefited from something we started. But as it
relates to today, on one hand, streaming is great because
if you want to hear something, more likely than not
(26:27):
you have access you could find I wonder what this
sounds like? I heard this? Let me listen to it
again and you know, before determining whether you want to
make a purchase or not. But the difference for us
is we were trying to enhance the music experience. So
it wasn't only you know, here's the album, here's the song.
(26:48):
It was you know, let's deepen your understanding of you know,
what you're hearing. And by the way, this relates to
Savage Young Winos by Mogan David and his Whinos. So
in the new album, not only do you have well
here's the music, you have like a lot of photos
(27:08):
and you have the equivalent of the inserts I mentioned.
You have a couple crazy fan letters, you know, you
have you know, odd things. But also I have lengthy
I did new liner notes that give you the background
behind a lot of this stuff with you know, funny
little stories like on those job with Kellerman surf instrumental
(27:33):
Life thought, oh, you know, the Beach Boys have a
new label, Brother Records. You know, maybe the Beach Boys
would like to like the surf thing and don't want
to put it out, you know. Then you know, like,
oh but Dennis Wilson didn't like it, you know, little
things like that in there. So yeah, I just really like,
by the way, anybody could hear a song, then they
could enjoy it and they can take it on that
(27:54):
level and it can go no further than that, and
that's great. But if you kind of want to know, well,
what's behind the song and you know what's why did
the Beatles use these these terms or or like okay
specifically the Beatles, but a day in the life, what's that? Well,
(28:14):
now we know the story and John Lennon was reading
the newspaper and you know their friend Tara Brown who
wiped out in the car crashed. And you know what
I'm saying is that you don't need to know any
of that in order to enjoy it, but it's nice
to know it. It enhances that it gives it sort
of it's a deeper experience. So anyway, long and short
(28:35):
of it is I think you know that's declined in
a sense because of you know, streaming.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
So before we close it out, Harold, since we call
this podcast taking a walk, I wanted you to suspend
belief here and reach back and think if you could
take a walk with somebody living or dead, or a
couple different people, who would you take a walk with
and where would you take that that saunter with them.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Well, I did think about that, okay, because on on
the website to listen to some of the shows. So
so here's the thing, you know, pragmatically, good friend of
mine for many years is Peter Noon from Herman's Hermits,
And in fact, in the new album there's a little
one of the songs I wrote for him he didn't like,
(29:28):
but that's that's in the album and there's a little
story about it. I'm not going to go into it now.
But I don't see him very often. You know, sometimes
we'll get together for lunch because you know, I'm in
Los Angeles. He lives in Santa Barbara. But on a
couple occasions, you know, I've said, oh, let's walk together,
which we never have. But we have had sort of
(29:50):
some chats when he's been walking and you know, and
I've been walking, but it's just kind of been haphazard.
So so even though I offered, like I come out
to Santa Barbara, let's go for a walk, we've sort
of never done that. So I would like to have
a walk with Peter Noon. I'd come to Santa Barbara
because we've never done that together.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Fantastic This has been so great. Harold, congrats on Savage
Young winos out for people to go find it. By
the time this podcast will be out via Liberation Hall.
An amazing career, still going strong, Harold Bronson, thanks for
being on Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Thank you buzz.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
I'm Buzznight, and thanks for listening to the Taking a
Walk podcast. Now. Please check out our companion podcasts produced
by Buzznight Media Productions with your host Lynn Hoffman. Music
Save Me showcasing the healing power of music, and comedy
Save Me shining a light on how laughter is the
best medicine. All shows are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify
(30:58):
and are part of the iHeart podcast network.
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Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.