What does it cost to walk away from one of Hollywood’s most powerful legal positions to pursue your true passion? Steve Bardwil spent years as Chief Counsel for Walt Disney Studios, overseeing legal affairs for Marvel, Pixar, Lucasfilm, and more—negotiating billion-dollar deals and working alongside industry titans like Steve Jobs, Alan Bergman, and Kevin Feige. But behind the prestigious business cards and high-stakes meetings, he was writing songs, leading a band, and wrestling with a question that wouldn’t let go: What if there’s more?
Welcome to the Takin A Walk podcast and join Buzz Knight on this inspiring music story with singer-songwriter Steve Bardwil.
In 2024, Steve Bardwil made the decision that seemed crazy to everyone around him—he left Disney to pursue music full-time. One year later, he released his critically acclaimed debut album “Nothing But Time,” produced by 11-time Grammy winner Joe Chiccarelli (Elton John, U2, Beck, The Killers). Now he’s heading back into East West Studios to record his sophomore effort.
In this inspiring music interview , Steve shares the emotional journey of redefining his identity beyond the Disney empire, the moment he cold-called Joe Chiccarelli (and actually got a callback), and what happened when one of music’s most legendary producers transformed his songs in ways he never imagined. From opening for Donovan Frankenreiter and Lyle Lovett while still at Disney, to learning the recording process from scratch, to writing “Send Them Love”—a song resonating with anyone who’s faced online negativity—Steve Bardwil and his story is about courage, reinvention, and refusing to live with “what if.”
He also reveals his Beatles origin story (Dodger Stadium, 1966), the bittersweet reality of walking away from a career that defined him, and his advice for anyone contemplating their own leap: “At the end of your life, you can say ‘I tried’ or ‘I wish I would have.’ Don’t be the person who says ‘I wish I would have.’”
Featured Topics: Career reinvention, music production with Joe Chiccarelli, working at Walt Disney Studios, songwriting process, recording at East West Studios, overcoming self-doubt, “Send Them Love,” Beatles at Dodger Stadium, following your passion later in life
#kegendary musician #career breakthrough #disney #buzzknight #iheartpodcast #inspiration #music and resilience #inspiring music interview #inspiring icons #music icons podcast #behind the music stories #podcast about musicians #beatles music history #music journey
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Taking a Walk on Buzz Night, and this is the
Taking a Walk Podcast. Now, what if the price of
your dream life was walking away from one of the
most powerful jobs in Hollywood. Steve Bardwell spent years as
chief counsel for Walt Disney Studios, navigating billion dollar deals,
(00:20):
high stakes negotiations, and the relentless pressure of the entertainment
industry's legal machine. But behind closed doors, he was writing songs,
leading a band, and wrestling with a question that haunted him,
what if There's more.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
In twenty twenty four, Steve made a decision that seemed
crazy to everyone around him. He left Disney to pursue
music full time. One year later, he got a critically
acclaimed album produced by eleven time Grammy winner Joe Chicarelli,
Rave reviews from so many folks, and he's heading back
(00:59):
into the studio. This is the story of how he
did it, why he did it, and what it cost him.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Welcome to Taking a Walk. Steve Bardwell is next Taking
a Walk, Steve bard Will. Welcome to the Taking a
Walk Podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Thank you very much, happy to be here, thanks for
having me.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
So, since we call the show Taking a Walk, we
like to ask this question It's fascinating we get all
different sorts of answers from everybody, all walks of life.
If you could take a walk with someone Steve, living
or dead, who would you take a walk with and
maybe tell us where you might take that walk with him?
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Well, that's that's kind of an interesting and tough question.
At the same I could take a walk with anyone,
livy or not.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
Livy correct for for living? Just go you can be
your imagination. Well maybe not. I don't know, no criteria
to it. You tell me?
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Can I pick one living in one not living? Absolutely
the not living person I'd like to take a walk
with his Mark Twain. I think I just think he's
an interesting guy who i'd love to chat with and living.
Maybe Paul McCartney.
Speaker 5 (02:14):
Okay, I don't know if there was a Mark Twain
answer ever, but there's been a number of Paul McCartney
answers for sure, as you could well imagine, So it
would be it would be quite a walk. I'd love
to be on a fly on the wall, for you've.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Met him a couple of times, but I'm you know,
at a restaurant, but never never really talked to him.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
So you have an amazing story. Before we get into
the story, I wanted to hear first about your earliest
music influences that you can recall.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Well, it would have to be the Beatles seeing him
on it. You know, I saw him on Ed Sullivan
when I was really young. I really didn't understand what
it was, but I saw these people, girls screaming and
the crowd going crazy. And I had some older friends
that were really into the Beatles, and I would say
(03:14):
that was my first thing that influenced me or made
me think about music being you know, cool.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
And everything changed at anybody who saw that, right, their
life probably changed, whether they went into music or whether
they became chief counsel for Walt Disney, their their life
changed when they saw this amazing moment in time, right.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then when I was like, I
don't know, twelve or whatever, is when I started thinking
I would want to You know, this was many years
after seeing them on TV. But I wanted a good
and my parents got me a Saint George electric guitar
(04:03):
from Sears, which I which I wish I still had.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
Oh, I was keeping my fingers crossed. I was like,
do you have it somewhere? Is it not in the
basement among cobwebs.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Is it's the honest thing that likes. Happened to it?
I wish I could say I sold it at a
pawn shop and got some I don't know what happened
to it. I don't know where it went.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
So where did you grow up, Steve?
Speaker 4 (04:26):
I grew up in the Valley and the San Fernando
Valley in Los Angeles outside you know, part of Los
Angeles proper, in Encino.
Speaker 5 (04:36):
And do you remember the first concert of Shirt I'm
sure you do.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
I do. When I was little, I was like ten,
and my cousin, who was she was like sixteen, drove
me and a friend of mine and a couple other
cousins in the station wearing the Dodger Stadium to see
the Beatles.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Oh oh, okay, we come full circle even more. And
that was the twenty eight minute or twenty nine unit show. Right.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
It was a Dodger Stadium Bobby Hebb I think opened
for them. There was a tent set up, a green
and white tent set up in center field that had
a sign on it that said dressing room. And that's
where Bobby Head came out. And then he went back in,
and then the Beatles came out and they did play
(05:27):
for about twenty, like you said, twenty minutes half hour,
and the sound system was you know, those cone speakers
that they had at the same they didn't have like
the kind of sound systems they do now. Couldn't really
hear them because the girls were everyone was screaming so much.
And then they went in the dressing room at the end,
and then a car flew out the back end of
(05:48):
the dressing room and they opened the gates and they
were out of the stadium before he one had a
chance to even think that it was over.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
And how many times did did Bobby have do Sonny?
Speaker 4 (06:01):
He did it once? That was his big hit.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Yeah, because you know, if there really really wasn't a
big arsenal of songs, you usual he.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Played for He played longer than the Beatles, I think,
and I can't tell you any no one was paying
attention to him except but you know, sonny, he did do.
Speaker 5 (06:21):
Yeah a great song, by the way, was.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
A great song. Yeah, it is a great song. Still
was a great song.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Yep. So okay, let's get to the meat of it here, sir.
You were chief counsel at Walt Disney Studios, one of
the most prestigious legal positions in Hollywood, no less anywhere.
Can you take us back to that moment where you
decided to walk away? What was that conversation like with yourself?
(06:48):
I'm sure it'd been going on.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
It had been going on, you know. I hadn't played
guitar for since, you know, in college and about I
don't know, fifteen years ago, I you know, bought Martin
acoustic guitar and started playing and writing some songs. And
(07:11):
my friend who I went to the Beatles concert with
that I grew up with, plays bass, so I asked
I told him I wanted to form a band. I
told him and some other musicians that I heard playing live,
and I approached him and said, I'm thinking of starting
a band. Would you be interested? We played, and we
actually got some pretty swell gigs. We you know, opened
(07:35):
for Donovan Franken, writer, Pablo Cruz at a Money, Jim Messina,
Robbie Kreeer, Dickey Betts, and most recently before I left,
while I was still at Disney, we did a show
opening for Lyle Lovett and his Big Band at the
Saban Theater in Beverly Hills. But I could never really
(07:57):
promote it or spend full time because I had no
music cred because I was Chief counsel of Walt Disney Company.
And that's a pretty much of a full time job,
as you can imagine, because I oversaw the legal affairs
of you know, Marvel, Pixar, Lucasfilm, Walt Disney Animation, Walt
(08:19):
Disney Studios, Fox search Light, Fox Pictures, the distribution arm,
the music Disney Music Group tell you, and there was
some other responsibilities as well. I had a you know,
hundreds of people on my team, and it was it
was an amazing job, you know, I got. I worked
(08:40):
with some of you know, some of the people at
Disney were extremely creative and smart. You know. I worked
with the chairman of the studio, Alan Berdman, who I'm
still very good friends with. We have dinner, you know.
But once a month or so, I worked with Steve
jobs a lot, got to be pretty got to know
him from really well, you know, Kathy Kennedy at Lucasfilm,
(09:04):
Kevin Fidy at marwoll and John Lasseier and Ed Capmill
were at Pixar, and and then you know, uh, Jim
Morris and Pete Doctor were there when I left, and
I had decided that I'd been I'd been there and
done a lot of that, and COVID hit and I
(09:24):
was we were all working from home doing zoom meetings,
and I just thought it was a you know, if
I'm going to do the music thing, I got to
do it. And so I told Alan Bergman that I
wanted to, uh, you know, to leave, and he he said, oh,
can't you just stay, you know, one more year? And
(09:46):
I did that, and then he said I was the
year was coming. He goes, well, can you just stay
six more months? And I go, okay, but that's it.
I'm that's it. I'm I'm out of here. And and
I left, and I know you you asked, like, what
was my thought process? It's what It was kind of
bittersweet because, you know, and it was wasn't the easiest
(10:08):
decision to make, because when you're working a job like that,
my identity was kind of wrapped up in being chief
counsel of the Walt Disney studio. My business cards, you know,
had Mickey Mouse on it and said, you know, chief
counsel Walt Disney Studios. When I would go to meetings,
restaurants knew that knew me as that. You know, you
(10:29):
check into a hotel and you give them the card that's.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
Who you are.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
You're kind of wondering, well, who am I going to be?
What am I going to you know what if the
music thing doesn't work out? You know, you just never
know what when you're time's up, and I just figure,
I know what life at Disney's like, really well, but
I don't know what life outside of Disney is like.
(10:53):
And maybe I'll be bored. Hopefully I can do the
music thing, but at least I want to just see
what else in life has to offer besides Disney. And
the only way to do that is to leave. And
so that's kind of where I landed.
Speaker 5 (11:08):
And besides Alan, did anyone in your family try to
talk to you out of it? Was there anybody that
said no?
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Because my family, my kids and my wife knew that
I wanted to do the music thing. You know, when
I left, I didn't have and you know, songs that
I knew I wanted to record. I wrote the I
wrote some songs, new songs. After I quit, I wanted
to find a producer. Was I was starting when I
(11:39):
left with nothing music wise that would lead me to
believe that, you know, I definitely had a music place
to go.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
It was a hope, as you had described, you know,
years back, getting into music and working with your your
friends and playing in a band. And did you sort
of feel the momentum of that sort of picking up
in terms of your passionate love for it as you were,
you know, first beginning it then.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Yeah, and when we were beginning to all the guys,
everyone in the band, and by the way, everyone that
was in the original band is still in the band
except for our bass player who that George, the one
who I've been friends with growing up. I think as I,
as we got more serious with the music, he was
not as dedicated or you know, not into the commitment
(12:35):
that the rest of us were knew that we needed
to make to this, to go to that, to this
next level. But everyone else has been in the band,
and we all you know, I wasn't the only one
that had a full time job. Everyone else in the
band had other jobs too, But gradually the other guys
left their jobs and went into the you know, started
(12:57):
doing music full time. I was the last one out
out of a full time job. Our guitar player Johnny
Statulo when we we opened for Dicky Betts and they
heard and Johnny, I think, had met Dwayne Betts, Dicky's
son once or twice, and they were playing together. So
they started talking and they saw Johnny playing in our band,
(13:20):
and next thing, I you know, they were forming the
All in Bets Ban. This was like ten years ago,
and they asked Johnny to join the Almend Bets Ban.
So he's been touring and recording with them, and he's
also been playing and out with Dwayne Betts. Johnny brought
our drummer, Vince and our keyboard player Max out with
(13:40):
them and they're touring with Dwayne.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
Betts as well.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
And Vince has also toured with an electronic music artist
named Zoo Zhu and Aaron, the saxophone player, was touring
with Zoo and he brought Vince into that situation. So
I'm just you know, they're all everyone started getting more
serious about the music, and like I said, I was
(14:06):
the last one out of a job and into the music.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
What were their jobs, just to you know, a variety
of different types of jobs of the ad.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Johnny worked for a beverage company as a manager of
some sort Aaron worked for He was a computer data analyst.
I think he worked for a short time for p
Diddy and uh Max worked He was at Max actually
(14:36):
won an Emmy because he Max is like a tech geek.
He plays B three organ and every kind of keyboard
you can imagine. We just finished the recording session. I
think he had nine different He had a Worlitzer, a
profit synth, a nord, a B three org. He has
his own B three organ. He repairs and fixes them.
(14:58):
He had whatever keyboard that's Stevie wondered used on you
know a long time ago, and he had the same
one that the Doors used, So I mean, and he
worked for the company that films sports events from planes
and blimps and helicopters, and he like hooks up and
(15:20):
creates the camera rigs and all that stuff. And he
won an Emmy for that.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
So they come from all different walks of life basically,
and all roads intersected back.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
To We've all become great friends. It's like a family.
We've had this. You know, Mass is the newest member
of the band that he's been with us over ten years.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
So walk me through the decision to work with Joe Chicarelli.
You're you're a new artist, You're you're starting from scratch
kind of How did you get an eleven time Grammy
winner to take your call?
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Well, it's funny. I knew I wanted to get a
good producer, and I was originally thinking and I called
a friend of mine who's in the business, and I said, hey,
I'm and I had by this time, I had written
the songs, and I had actually books some time at
East West Studios, like month, three or four months in advance, figuring, okay,
(16:20):
now I just got to find a producer. And I
asked my friend, I go, I want to get a
good producer. Can you you know who? Can I call?
I was thinking, like, do you know Rick Rubin? He goes,
He goes, that's not really my thing. Let me ask around.
I know some people. You know some people?
Speaker 5 (16:37):
I know a guy. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
They send me three names and three phone numbers, and
I googled them. I didn't I hadn't. I didn't know
who Joe Chiccarelli was. I googled them and it said
he won eleven Grammys. And I saw the artists that
he worked with, Elton John and you two and Beck
and the Counting Crows and Jason Moraz and just you know,
Alanis Morrisset and Frank Zappa and Morrissey and My Morning
(17:04):
Jacket and the Killers and the White Stripes. I mean,
it's just on and on and so I and I
always believe that if you don't ask, it's the same
as you know, if they said no. So what's what's
the downside? So I called them and got his voice message,
and so I said, Steve bardwell and gave him my
(17:24):
phone number, and then I didn't hear a few days later,
I get a text from saying, Joe Chickarelli here, what
do you want I go? I said, well, I said,
I'm texted him back and said, I'm a singer songwriter
and I'm making an album at East West and I
was looking for someone. I was hoping to work with
(17:46):
you as a producer. And he texted me back and said,
do you have any demos? And I so I did
have some, you know, songs that I had recorded on
my iPhone. They weren't professional, we've done demos at all.
I sent him to him, and he texted back and said,
cool songs. We should talk, so I figured, whoa, maybe
(18:09):
maybe you know I'll take that. So he we we
we talked on the phone and he was in at
the time, he was in France at a recording studio
doing an album with Morrissey, and he said, let's have
breakfast when I get back. I said that'd be great.
(18:30):
I met him for breakfast and you know, we started talking.
He said, so, what are you looking to? What are
you looking for with this album? I got? I want
you to win another Grammy. He just laughed. He goes, yeah, okay,
what are you you know? I you know, I asked,
what do you you know? What do you seeing? The
(18:51):
kind of record do you see? And we just started
talking and I told him about the band and the
times that I had booked in the studio. Coincidentally, he
was free to do the tracking, but he had he
was he had another project that he was working on.
So we did the track. We did the you know,
(19:11):
the tracking with the band in the studio and with guy.
Speaker 5 (19:15):
I just did guide vocals at that.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Time, and he said, you know, I got to jump
into something else for a few months. So he goes,
you're not, are you? He's the one when we first
started talking, he said, are you in a hurry? Is
there a deadline? I go, no, whenever to I'll work
around you. And so a few months later we did
went back and did some guitar and uh keyboard overdubs
(19:40):
and did the vocals and then the background vocals. And
my wife, Catherine UH is a singer. And so when
it came time to do background vocals, I, you know,
Joe said, so who does your backup vocals? And I said, well,
it's my wife Catherine and Max. I go, but if
you want to bring somebody else in, that's fine with
you know. With me, I just want to make the
(20:01):
best record possible. He goes, well, let's if it's if
it's better, if it's your guys. If it works out,
let's try him and if it doesn't work out, we'll
bring somebody in. So they had to go in and
sing for him, and he liked what they had to
bring to the table, and so it worked out.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
Did he at all challenge your vision for the record
at least in those early conversations or did he just
sort of let you kind of no?
Speaker 4 (20:28):
I told him, you know, the reason I'm coming to
you is I I've never done this before. I'm not
a I don't know anything about the recording process. Really,
I go, I want you to to make the best
record you can make with us, And he was amazing.
(20:50):
He said he wanted to come to our to our
rehearsals before we go into the studio. And so I
had booked the rehearsals for week with the band. So
as soon as Joe said he wanted to come to
the rehearsals, they called the band and go Joe wants
to come to the rehearsals for a week. We have
to rehearse a week before Joe. So the rehearsals ended
(21:11):
up being two weeks, one week with you know, just
the bus, trying to get our act together. And so
Joe doesn't walk and goes, what did I get myself into?
And you know, a week with Joe and he's he's amazing.
I mean, we become good friends. You know, I really
(21:32):
love the guy. He's just amazingly talented.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
So he is known for being really hands on changing
tempos and switching keys and reworking. Is there a specific
example that you can give of a song where his
input completely changed what you thought it was originally going
to be?
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Yeah, We had this this recent on this just last album.
We had a song called good Things and we worked
it up, you know, playing it a certain way. He
came in and he he was he knows. Every year
he'll tell Vince the drummer, don't place eighth notes and
(22:15):
play sixteens and you know, you got to drive the
energy before the chorus starts. Or he'll tell the you know,
the bass player. You know, I think you know those
guys are playing majors. You're playing a minor here. I
don't think that it's not sink and right. The song
that we were playing I would say had more of
(22:35):
a traveling Woolbury's or petty kind of vibe. That's the
closest thing I can think of. But when he got
done with this, it's like Stevie Wonder Motown song or something.
You know, I didn't even know we had it in us.
Like he he brings out the best in all of
our you know, all the music, all the music and
(22:57):
musicians that there is. And you you say, his hands,
I mean, I mean he would. We're playing a song
and we had to you know, we do a take
of the song and he goes, I'm going to come out, Vince,
I think I'm going to change that snare drum. And
he comes out and he's on his hands and knees.
He has a When we had breakfast, he said, you know,
(23:19):
I think for this album, what I'm hearing is, I
think you need a vintage Ludwig or Gretch drum kit.
Have your drummer called John at Angel City drum Works,
and you know, so we have this drum kit and
he showered a bunch of snare drums or something. I
don't know the difference between a snare, a snare drums
a snare drum in my book, but he would try
(23:40):
out two or three snare drums and go back in
and nah and come out and put tape on those.
And he doesn't tell there's two assistants. He doesn't tell
them to come out, and he actually doesn't himself. He's
on his hands and knees, he's he's like hands on.
Speaker 5 (23:56):
That's incredible.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
The guy has the best ears in the in the business.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
That is so wonderful just hearing that inside story there
on how he just just knows what he wants and
gets real specific and gets his hand thirty.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
The specificity is unreal. You know, you come in and
I'm playing you know, I have He told me to
I have. I had a tailor guitar. I have a
tailor guitar, Martin guitar, and he Gibson. You know, he'd start,
he'd say, try to Gibson and I'm playing that. He goes, eh,
he tried the Martin. Eh, and then he and then
(24:33):
try the tailor I got hees, he goes hold on.
He goes upstairs. He has his own studio at East
West Studios now his own production studio, and he has
some guitars out there. He brings down an Epiphone, an
old Epiphone acoustic guitar that it's like the John Lennon model.
It had It wasn't John Lennon's signature, but it said,
(24:54):
you know, have the when Epiphone made this, they put
John Lennon's signature or you know in the guitar. I'm
playing that, and he goes, Dad, that'll work on whatever.
This was a particular song. I don't even remember what
song it was. But he has something, he has a
sound in mind that he's looking for. He knows how
(25:16):
to get it.
Speaker 6 (25:17):
We'll be right back with more of the taking a
Walk podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
Nothing but Time has been called timeless and contemporary. When
you were making it, did you have a particular sonic
target in mind that you were looking for, that that
you were chasing, or did it just turn out, you know,
just feel just right.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
You know, I I wrote, I wrote all the songs,
and when I write them, I'm just playing him on
my acoustic guitar. So it's me and me and song. Really,
I never envisioned or had an idea of what it
would sound like with the band at the time I
(26:09):
wrote them. The process that when we work up a song,
I take that song to the band and I play
it for them. And there's a song magic Night in
Paris on the album that's kind of about an experience
I had at a jazz club in Paris, and it was,
you know, a swing dance kind of jazz club, and
(26:30):
I saw these people fall kind of what I thought
fall in love. An older guy and a younger woman
started dancing and as eating more on they were more
than dancing, and I wrote a song about it. So
I said, I want to get like a vibe of
a dance club in Paris in the forties or something,
and it was different sound than the other songs that
(26:52):
we were doing, and so we kind of were just
worked it up. And you know, Aaron plays sacks and flute,
and so with the piano and the saxophone, we were
able to get kind of a jazz by thing going
on the song. We work up the songs and then
we just started playing them for Joe, and Joe would
just add things and do things that we never even
(27:14):
thought of. You know, we think, oh, this is a
cool song. We got nailed. It still has the same
vibe and bones that we originally have, but Joe takes
it to a different level. He'll tell Johnny Johnny can
can play something, and he'll like mouth a riff on
a guitar riff and Johnny'll try something. He goes, no, no, no,
(27:36):
try something else. Yeah, that'll double it, double it, double
the tempo, or just do footballs there, don't play this,
and he just creates this sound that's you. Hear it
on the record and it's like you're just like, wow,
that's us.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
I love Send them love. And why do you think
that song has resonated to such a great degree.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I wrote that song because this girl came to me
that was really bummed out because people have been saying
some really negative things about her online. I think I
just started thinking and I kept hearing more and more
about bullying online, and I think social media has really
messed up a lot of things. I almost don't want
(28:32):
to get started on that, but I just I told her,
don't pay attention to what other people say about you,
because what they say says more about them than it
does about you. Somebody saying something about you doesn't make
what they say. That's not who you are. You know
who you are, and you just got to take the
high road, you know, send them love. And then after
(28:53):
I did that, I got that could be a song,
and so I just kind of wrote down what I
told her and put it to music. And I think
it's resonated with people because I don't think there's anybody
that hasn't felt somebody, you know, saying something about them.
I don't know, when somebody says something negative about you,
(29:14):
if you listen to it and absorb it or pay
attention to it, give it power. It can affect you
in a negative way and discourage you. You make you
feel less. I just think it's important that you know.
I always my thing is I don't take criticism from
anybody that I wouldn't want advice from. People do say
(29:37):
whatever they want. You just got to take the high
rogue and not push back. Don't go tip for tat
with somebody. Just okay, they said it, I'm sending them off.
I feel sorry for them. That's what they want to
spend their time doing well.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
And you've said reading reviews feels like reading about somebody else,
so you've kind of illustrated in your own way about
your work too. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
Sometimes you know it's weird. I listen to my songs.
They helped me, Like if I'm thinking something that I'll
listen to a song. Yeah. Wow, I should take that advice.
I should take my own advice. It's kind of interesting
that way.
Speaker 5 (30:22):
So you're heading back into East West Studios. You must
be so excited to record a new album. Yeah, and
with Joe. I mean, boy, it's I'm excited for you.
What's different though about you as an artist obviously now
compared to when you walked in there the first time.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
I didn't know anything when I walked in the first time.
I've been having been through a recording session. I've learned
the jargon, I could speak the language at least Now
I don't ask as many questions like what is this me?
What are you talking about? And there's a comfort that
not only I have with the process, but I think
(31:07):
everybody in the band has because we've all worked with
Joe before and Joe knows us, we know Joe. It's
less stressful and less pressure, and I feel like I'm
more relaxed and the band's more relaxed, and maybe Joe.
Joe's comfortable. He's always he's pretty, he doesn't beat around
(31:31):
the bush. He tells you if something's not working, or
try this, do that. But I just think there's a
mutual familiarity and camaraderie that, you know, because we bonded.
I mean, recording an album when you're working together for
an extensive period of time and you're eating you know,
lunch and dinner with everybody for a number of days,
(31:52):
and you you know, just get to be friends. And
Joe and I become friends. We've gone out to dinner
and I just talked to him with morning. You know.
It's just different, and the songs are different this time.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
Evolution, yeah, right, evolution, what traits from your past life
do you think have served you well in your new life.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
I think, you know, working with creative people, I always
realize that the artist is very precious about what they
create because they they're invested in it. It's hard for
them to listen to other people. At the studio, we
would see dailies every day, and you know, if a
movie's three hours long or whatever, and not as many
(32:44):
people are going to see that movie if it's three
hours long, then if it's two hours long, and even
two hours long is plenty along for a movie. The
worst thing you want to do is how somebody come
out and say, it's a good movie, but wow, it's
too long. But and I just use as an example
because I think as an artist, I can get kind
of precious about the songs that I write. But when
(33:07):
when other professionals late i'm working with tell me their opinions,
I value. I welcome those. I don't want to be
so precious about them that I'm not willing to make
changes based on their suggestion. And I just believe that
the more creative input that there is to a project,
(33:31):
the better the song. For songwriting in particular, you know,
and from movie making too. Sometimes the reason you have
a team is a team sport, I'd say it's not
so much an individual sport. Yeah, look at the beat
I think the Beatles, when the four of them were together,
what they created was magical. I mean, they're all great
(33:51):
artists individually, but I don't think them alone was as
much magic as the four of them together were.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
And yet those entities like that, just like organizations and teams,
can be very fragile, you know, especially as a long
time has been spent together, you know, touring and studio time.
Eventually those things sometimes wear thin, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
And sometimes I have to tell my you, I find
myself being resistant to some suggestion I have too. Hey, dude, listen,
you don't know everything. Listen.
Speaker 5 (34:34):
You know this show that I do is is an
extension of where I started, came out of the radio business,
but as an on air person is how I first
started before I got into the senior management. So for me,
taking a walk, you know, came out of that sort
(34:55):
of pursuit of the love of something and passion for something,
wanting to sort of go back to my initial roots
and where my you know, where my heart really is.
So I understand it, at least from my perspective. But
in closing here, you know, taking your perspective on how
you followed your heart, and if someone's listening and they're
(35:19):
in this position of a job, a career course, how
would you get them in their own way to jump
off the curb and do what they love.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
I would say one thing that kind of held me
back a little bit was thinking, you know, I wish
I would have done this when I was younger. Why
an idiot? Am I stupid? What am I thinking trying
to do this now? I think that it's never too
late to there's something you really want to do. At
(35:54):
the end of your life, you can look back and
say I tried this, I really wanted to do it,
I want for it. It didn't work out, but I
gave it my best shot, you know, or maybe it
did work out and wow, Or you can say I
never tried, I wish I would have, and I think I.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
Wish I would have.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Is like the worst of those possibilities. You got to
go for it. Otherwise you're going to be looking back saying,
what if I wish I would have? I wonder if
I could have, you know, just the experience. Even if
I had failed at this, or it hadn't worked out,
or you know, I didn't work with Joe or whatever,
I still would have enjoyed the learning experience of the
(36:38):
in the ride of trying it. And what's the downside?
Speaker 5 (36:44):
Well, you know way more about movies than I know,
but this is the stuff that certainly movies are made of.
Who's going to play you in the movie.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Robert Downey, jor.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Go.
Speaker 5 (37:01):
Quite a life there, right, It's an amazing story. The
music is fantastic. I can't wait to hear the new music.
And I really appreciate how it took us behind the
scenes there to the creation and your amazing story. And
Steve bardwell, I'm so glad that you're on Taking a Walk.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Well, thank you very much, happy to be here, thanks
for having.
Speaker 5 (37:23):
Me, and come back again anytime.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
Thank you very much. Baz.
Speaker 6 (37:29):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking
a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
and wherever you get your podcasts.
Taking a Walk on Buzz Night, and this is the
Taking a Walk Podcast. Now, what if the price of
your dream life was walking away from one of the
most powerful jobs in Hollywood. Steve Bardwell spent years as
chief counsel for Walt Disney Studios, navigating billion dollar deals,
(00:20):
high stakes negotiations, and the relentless pressure of the entertainment
industry's legal machine. But behind closed doors, he was writing songs,
leading a band, and wrestling with a question that haunted him,
what if There's more.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
In twenty twenty four, Steve made a decision that seemed
crazy to everyone around him. He left Disney to pursue
music full time. One year later, he got a critically
acclaimed album produced by eleven time Grammy winner Joe Chicarelli,
Rave reviews from so many folks, and he's heading back
(00:59):
into the studio. This is the story of how he
did it, why he did it, and what it cost him.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Welcome to Taking a Walk. Steve Bardwell is next Taking
a Walk, Steve bard Will. Welcome to the Taking a
Walk Podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Thank you very much, happy to be here, thanks for
having me.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
So, since we call the show Taking a Walk, we
like to ask this question It's fascinating we get all
different sorts of answers from everybody, all walks of life.
If you could take a walk with someone Steve, living
or dead, who would you take a walk with and
maybe tell us where you might take that walk with him?
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Well, that's that's kind of an interesting and tough question.
At the same I could take a walk with anyone,
livy or not.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
Livy correct for for living? Just go you can be
your imagination. Well maybe not. I don't know, no criteria
to it. You tell me?
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Can I pick one living in one not living? Absolutely
the not living person I'd like to take a walk
with his Mark Twain. I think I just think he's
an interesting guy who i'd love to chat with and living.
Maybe Paul McCartney.
Speaker 5 (02:14):
Okay, I don't know if there was a Mark Twain
answer ever, but there's been a number of Paul McCartney
answers for sure, as you could well imagine, So it
would be it would be quite a walk. I'd love
to be on a fly on the wall, for you've.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Met him a couple of times, but I'm you know,
at a restaurant, but never never really talked to him.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
So you have an amazing story. Before we get into
the story, I wanted to hear first about your earliest
music influences that you can recall.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Well, it would have to be the Beatles seeing him
on it. You know, I saw him on Ed Sullivan
when I was really young. I really didn't understand what
it was, but I saw these people, girls screaming and
the crowd going crazy. And I had some older friends
that were really into the Beatles, and I would say
(03:14):
that was my first thing that influenced me or made
me think about music being you know, cool.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
And everything changed at anybody who saw that, right, their
life probably changed, whether they went into music or whether
they became chief counsel for Walt Disney, their their life
changed when they saw this amazing moment in time, right.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then when I was like, I
don't know, twelve or whatever, is when I started thinking
I would want to You know, this was many years
after seeing them on TV. But I wanted a good
and my parents got me a Saint George electric guitar
(04:03):
from Sears, which I which I wish I still had.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
Oh, I was keeping my fingers crossed. I was like,
do you have it somewhere? Is it not in the
basement among cobwebs.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Is it's the honest thing that likes. Happened to it?
I wish I could say I sold it at a
pawn shop and got some I don't know what happened
to it. I don't know where it went.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
So where did you grow up, Steve?
Speaker 4 (04:26):
I grew up in the Valley and the San Fernando
Valley in Los Angeles outside you know, part of Los
Angeles proper, in Encino.
Speaker 5 (04:36):
And do you remember the first concert of Shirt I'm
sure you do.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
I do. When I was little, I was like ten,
and my cousin, who was she was like sixteen, drove
me and a friend of mine and a couple other
cousins in the station wearing the Dodger Stadium to see
the Beatles.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Oh oh, okay, we come full circle even more. And
that was the twenty eight minute or twenty nine unit show. Right.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
It was a Dodger Stadium Bobby Hebb I think opened
for them. There was a tent set up, a green
and white tent set up in center field that had
a sign on it that said dressing room. And that's
where Bobby Head came out. And then he went back in,
and then the Beatles came out and they did play
(05:27):
for about twenty, like you said, twenty minutes half hour,
and the sound system was you know, those cone speakers
that they had at the same they didn't have like
the kind of sound systems they do now. Couldn't really
hear them because the girls were everyone was screaming so much.
And then they went in the dressing room at the end,
and then a car flew out the back end of
(05:48):
the dressing room and they opened the gates and they
were out of the stadium before he one had a
chance to even think that it was over.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
And how many times did did Bobby have do Sonny?
Speaker 4 (06:01):
He did it once? That was his big hit.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Yeah, because you know, if there really really wasn't a
big arsenal of songs, you usual he.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Played for He played longer than the Beatles, I think,
and I can't tell you any no one was paying
attention to him except but you know, sonny, he did do.
Speaker 5 (06:21):
Yeah a great song, by the way, was.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
A great song. Yeah, it is a great song. Still
was a great song.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Yep. So okay, let's get to the meat of it here, sir.
You were chief counsel at Walt Disney Studios, one of
the most prestigious legal positions in Hollywood, no less anywhere.
Can you take us back to that moment where you
decided to walk away? What was that conversation like with yourself?
(06:48):
I'm sure it'd been going on.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
It had been going on, you know. I hadn't played
guitar for since, you know, in college and about I
don't know, fifteen years ago, I you know, bought Martin
acoustic guitar and started playing and writing some songs. And
(07:11):
my friend who I went to the Beatles concert with
that I grew up with, plays bass, so I asked
I told him I wanted to form a band. I
told him and some other musicians that I heard playing live,
and I approached him and said, I'm thinking of starting
a band. Would you be interested? We played, and we
actually got some pretty swell gigs. We you know, opened
(07:35):
for Donovan Franken, writer, Pablo Cruz at a Money, Jim Messina,
Robbie Kreeer, Dickey Betts, and most recently before I left,
while I was still at Disney, we did a show
opening for Lyle Lovett and his Big Band at the
Saban Theater in Beverly Hills. But I could never really
(07:57):
promote it or spend full time because I had no
music cred because I was Chief counsel of Walt Disney Company.
And that's a pretty much of a full time job,
as you can imagine, because I oversaw the legal affairs
of you know, Marvel, Pixar, Lucasfilm, Walt Disney Animation, Walt
(08:19):
Disney Studios, Fox search Light, Fox Pictures, the distribution arm,
the music Disney Music Group tell you, and there was
some other responsibilities as well. I had a you know,
hundreds of people on my team, and it was it
was an amazing job, you know, I got. I worked
(08:40):
with some of you know, some of the people at
Disney were extremely creative and smart. You know. I worked
with the chairman of the studio, Alan Berdman, who I'm
still very good friends with. We have dinner, you know.
But once a month or so, I worked with Steve
jobs a lot, got to be pretty got to know
him from really well, you know, Kathy Kennedy at Lucasfilm,
(09:04):
Kevin Fidy at marwoll and John Lasseier and Ed Capmill
were at Pixar, and and then you know, uh, Jim
Morris and Pete Doctor were there when I left, and
I had decided that I'd been I'd been there and
done a lot of that, and COVID hit and I
(09:24):
was we were all working from home doing zoom meetings,
and I just thought it was a you know, if
I'm going to do the music thing, I got to
do it. And so I told Alan Bergman that I
wanted to, uh, you know, to leave, and he he said, oh,
can't you just stay, you know, one more year? And
(09:46):
I did that, and then he said I was the
year was coming. He goes, well, can you just stay
six more months? And I go, okay, but that's it.
I'm that's it. I'm I'm out of here. And and
I left, and I know you you asked, like, what
was my thought process? It's what It was kind of
bittersweet because, you know, and it was wasn't the easiest
(10:08):
decision to make, because when you're working a job like that,
my identity was kind of wrapped up in being chief
counsel of the Walt Disney studio. My business cards, you know,
had Mickey Mouse on it and said, you know, chief
counsel Walt Disney Studios. When I would go to meetings,
restaurants knew that knew me as that. You know, you
(10:29):
check into a hotel and you give them the card that's.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
Who you are.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
You're kind of wondering, well, who am I going to be?
What am I going to you know what if the
music thing doesn't work out? You know, you just never
know what when you're time's up, and I just figure,
I know what life at Disney's like, really well, but
I don't know what life outside of Disney is like.
(10:53):
And maybe I'll be bored. Hopefully I can do the
music thing, but at least I want to just see
what else in life has to offer besides Disney. And
the only way to do that is to leave. And
so that's kind of where I landed.
Speaker 5 (11:08):
And besides Alan, did anyone in your family try to
talk to you out of it? Was there anybody that
said no?
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Because my family, my kids and my wife knew that
I wanted to do the music thing. You know, when
I left, I didn't have and you know, songs that
I knew I wanted to record. I wrote the I
wrote some songs, new songs. After I quit, I wanted
to find a producer. Was I was starting when I
(11:39):
left with nothing music wise that would lead me to
believe that, you know, I definitely had a music place
to go.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
It was a hope, as you had described, you know,
years back, getting into music and working with your your
friends and playing in a band. And did you sort
of feel the momentum of that sort of picking up
in terms of your passionate love for it as you were,
you know, first beginning it then.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Yeah, and when we were beginning to all the guys,
everyone in the band, and by the way, everyone that
was in the original band is still in the band
except for our bass player who that George, the one
who I've been friends with growing up. I think as I,
as we got more serious with the music, he was
not as dedicated or you know, not into the commitment
(12:35):
that the rest of us were knew that we needed
to make to this, to go to that, to this
next level. But everyone else has been in the band,
and we all you know, I wasn't the only one
that had a full time job. Everyone else in the
band had other jobs too, But gradually the other guys
left their jobs and went into the you know, started
(12:57):
doing music full time. I was the last one out
out of a full time job. Our guitar player Johnny
Statulo when we we opened for Dicky Betts and they
heard and Johnny, I think, had met Dwayne Betts, Dicky's
son once or twice, and they were playing together. So
they started talking and they saw Johnny playing in our band,
(13:20):
and next thing, I you know, they were forming the
All in Bets Ban. This was like ten years ago,
and they asked Johnny to join the Almend Bets Ban.
So he's been touring and recording with them, and he's
also been playing and out with Dwayne Betts. Johnny brought
our drummer, Vince and our keyboard player Max out with
(13:40):
them and they're touring with Dwayne.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
Betts as well.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
And Vince has also toured with an electronic music artist
named Zoo Zhu and Aaron, the saxophone player, was touring
with Zoo and he brought Vince into that situation. So
I'm just you know, they're all everyone started getting more
serious about the music, and like I said, I was
(14:06):
the last one out of a job and into the music.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
What were their jobs, just to you know, a variety
of different types of jobs of the ad.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Johnny worked for a beverage company as a manager of
some sort Aaron worked for He was a computer data analyst.
I think he worked for a short time for p
Diddy and uh Max worked He was at Max actually
(14:36):
won an Emmy because he Max is like a tech geek.
He plays B three organ and every kind of keyboard
you can imagine. We just finished the recording session. I
think he had nine different He had a Worlitzer, a
profit synth, a nord, a B three org. He has
his own B three organ. He repairs and fixes them.
(14:58):
He had whatever keyboard that's Stevie wondered used on you
know a long time ago, and he had the same
one that the Doors used, So I mean, and he
worked for the company that films sports events from planes
and blimps and helicopters, and he like hooks up and
(15:20):
creates the camera rigs and all that stuff. And he
won an Emmy for that.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
So they come from all different walks of life basically,
and all roads intersected back.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
To We've all become great friends. It's like a family.
We've had this. You know, Mass is the newest member
of the band that he's been with us over ten years.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
So walk me through the decision to work with Joe Chicarelli.
You're you're a new artist, You're you're starting from scratch
kind of How did you get an eleven time Grammy
winner to take your call?
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Well, it's funny. I knew I wanted to get a
good producer, and I was originally thinking and I called
a friend of mine who's in the business, and I said, hey,
I'm and I had by this time, I had written
the songs, and I had actually books some time at
East West Studios, like month, three or four months in advance, figuring, okay,
(16:20):
now I just got to find a producer. And I
asked my friend, I go, I want to get a
good producer. Can you you know who? Can I call?
I was thinking, like, do you know Rick Rubin? He goes,
He goes, that's not really my thing. Let me ask around.
I know some people. You know some people?
Speaker 5 (16:37):
I know a guy. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
They send me three names and three phone numbers, and
I googled them. I didn't I hadn't. I didn't know
who Joe Chiccarelli was. I googled them and it said
he won eleven Grammys. And I saw the artists that
he worked with, Elton John and you two and Beck
and the Counting Crows and Jason Moraz and just you know,
Alanis Morrisset and Frank Zappa and Morrissey and My Morning
(17:04):
Jacket and the Killers and the White Stripes. I mean,
it's just on and on and so I and I
always believe that if you don't ask, it's the same
as you know, if they said no. So what's what's
the downside? So I called them and got his voice message,
and so I said, Steve bardwell and gave him my
(17:24):
phone number, and then I didn't hear a few days later,
I get a text from saying, Joe Chickarelli here, what
do you want I go? I said, well, I said,
I'm texted him back and said, I'm a singer songwriter
and I'm making an album at East West and I
was looking for someone. I was hoping to work with
(17:46):
you as a producer. And he texted me back and said,
do you have any demos? And I so I did
have some, you know, songs that I had recorded on
my iPhone. They weren't professional, we've done demos at all.
I sent him to him, and he texted back and said,
cool songs. We should talk, so I figured, whoa, maybe
(18:09):
maybe you know I'll take that. So he we we
we talked on the phone and he was in at
the time, he was in France at a recording studio
doing an album with Morrissey, and he said, let's have
breakfast when I get back. I said that'd be great.
(18:30):
I met him for breakfast and you know, we started talking.
He said, so, what are you looking to? What are
you looking for with this album? I got? I want
you to win another Grammy. He just laughed. He goes, yeah, okay,
what are you you know? I you know, I asked,
what do you you know? What do you seeing? The
(18:51):
kind of record do you see? And we just started
talking and I told him about the band and the
times that I had booked in the studio. Coincidentally, he
was free to do the tracking, but he had he
was he had another project that he was working on.
So we did the track. We did the you know,
(19:11):
the tracking with the band in the studio and with guy.
Speaker 5 (19:15):
I just did guide vocals at that.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Time, and he said, you know, I got to jump
into something else for a few months. So he goes,
you're not, are you? He's the one when we first
started talking, he said, are you in a hurry? Is
there a deadline? I go, no, whenever to I'll work
around you. And so a few months later we did
went back and did some guitar and uh keyboard overdubs
(19:40):
and did the vocals and then the background vocals. And
my wife, Catherine UH is a singer. And so when
it came time to do background vocals, I, you know,
Joe said, so who does your backup vocals? And I said, well,
it's my wife Catherine and Max. I go, but if
you want to bring somebody else in, that's fine with
you know. With me, I just want to make the
(20:01):
best record possible. He goes, well, let's if it's if
it's better, if it's your guys. If it works out,
let's try him and if it doesn't work out, we'll
bring somebody in. So they had to go in and
sing for him, and he liked what they had to
bring to the table, and so it worked out.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
Did he at all challenge your vision for the record
at least in those early conversations or did he just
sort of let you kind of no?
Speaker 4 (20:28):
I told him, you know, the reason I'm coming to
you is I I've never done this before. I'm not
a I don't know anything about the recording process. Really,
I go, I want you to to make the best
record you can make with us, And he was amazing.
(20:50):
He said he wanted to come to our to our
rehearsals before we go into the studio. And so I
had booked the rehearsals for week with the band. So
as soon as Joe said he wanted to come to
the rehearsals, they called the band and go Joe wants
to come to the rehearsals for a week. We have
to rehearse a week before Joe. So the rehearsals ended
(21:11):
up being two weeks, one week with you know, just
the bus, trying to get our act together. And so
Joe doesn't walk and goes, what did I get myself into?
And you know, a week with Joe and he's he's amazing.
I mean, we become good friends. You know, I really
(21:32):
love the guy. He's just amazingly talented.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
So he is known for being really hands on changing
tempos and switching keys and reworking. Is there a specific
example that you can give of a song where his
input completely changed what you thought it was originally going
to be?
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Yeah, We had this this recent on this just last album.
We had a song called good Things and we worked
it up, you know, playing it a certain way. He
came in and he he was he knows. Every year
he'll tell Vince the drummer, don't place eighth notes and
(22:15):
play sixteens and you know, you got to drive the
energy before the chorus starts. Or he'll tell the you know,
the bass player. You know, I think you know those
guys are playing majors. You're playing a minor here. I
don't think that it's not sink and right. The song
that we were playing I would say had more of
(22:35):
a traveling Woolbury's or petty kind of vibe. That's the
closest thing I can think of. But when he got
done with this, it's like Stevie Wonder Motown song or something.
You know, I didn't even know we had it in us.
Like he he brings out the best in all of
our you know, all the music, all the music and
(22:57):
musicians that there is. And you you say, his hands,
I mean, I mean he would. We're playing a song
and we had to you know, we do a take
of the song and he goes, I'm going to come out, Vince,
I think I'm going to change that snare drum. And
he comes out and he's on his hands and knees.
He has a When we had breakfast, he said, you know,
(23:19):
I think for this album, what I'm hearing is, I
think you need a vintage Ludwig or Gretch drum kit.
Have your drummer called John at Angel City drum Works,
and you know, so we have this drum kit and
he showered a bunch of snare drums or something. I
don't know the difference between a snare, a snare drums
a snare drum in my book, but he would try
(23:40):
out two or three snare drums and go back in
and nah and come out and put tape on those.
And he doesn't tell there's two assistants. He doesn't tell
them to come out, and he actually doesn't himself. He's
on his hands and knees, he's he's like hands on.
Speaker 5 (23:56):
That's incredible.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
The guy has the best ears in the in the business.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
That is so wonderful just hearing that inside story there
on how he just just knows what he wants and
gets real specific and gets his hand thirty.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
The specificity is unreal. You know, you come in and
I'm playing you know, I have He told me to
I have. I had a tailor guitar. I have a
tailor guitar, Martin guitar, and he Gibson. You know, he'd start,
he'd say, try to Gibson and I'm playing that. He goes, eh,
he tried the Martin. Eh, and then he and then
(24:33):
try the tailor I got hees, he goes hold on.
He goes upstairs. He has his own studio at East
West Studios now his own production studio, and he has
some guitars out there. He brings down an Epiphone, an
old Epiphone acoustic guitar that it's like the John Lennon model.
It had It wasn't John Lennon's signature, but it said,
(24:54):
you know, have the when Epiphone made this, they put
John Lennon's signature or you know in the guitar. I'm
playing that, and he goes, Dad, that'll work on whatever.
This was a particular song. I don't even remember what
song it was. But he has something, he has a
sound in mind that he's looking for. He knows how
(25:16):
to get it.
Speaker 6 (25:17):
We'll be right back with more of the taking a
Walk podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
Nothing but Time has been called timeless and contemporary. When
you were making it, did you have a particular sonic
target in mind that you were looking for, that that
you were chasing, or did it just turn out, you know,
just feel just right.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
You know, I I wrote, I wrote all the songs,
and when I write them, I'm just playing him on
my acoustic guitar. So it's me and me and song. Really,
I never envisioned or had an idea of what it
would sound like with the band at the time I
(26:09):
wrote them. The process that when we work up a song,
I take that song to the band and I play
it for them. And there's a song magic Night in
Paris on the album that's kind of about an experience
I had at a jazz club in Paris, and it was,
you know, a swing dance kind of jazz club, and
(26:30):
I saw these people fall kind of what I thought
fall in love. An older guy and a younger woman
started dancing and as eating more on they were more
than dancing, and I wrote a song about it. So
I said, I want to get like a vibe of
a dance club in Paris in the forties or something,
and it was different sound than the other songs that
(26:52):
we were doing, and so we kind of were just
worked it up. And you know, Aaron plays sacks and flute,
and so with the piano and the saxophone, we were
able to get kind of a jazz by thing going
on the song. We work up the songs and then
we just started playing them for Joe, and Joe would
just add things and do things that we never even
(27:14):
thought of. You know, we think, oh, this is a
cool song. We got nailed. It still has the same
vibe and bones that we originally have, but Joe takes
it to a different level. He'll tell Johnny Johnny can
can play something, and he'll like mouth a riff on
a guitar riff and Johnny'll try something. He goes, no, no, no,
(27:36):
try something else. Yeah, that'll double it, double it, double
the tempo, or just do footballs there, don't play this,
and he just creates this sound that's you. Hear it
on the record and it's like you're just like, wow,
that's us.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
I love Send them love. And why do you think
that song has resonated to such a great degree.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I wrote that song because this girl came to me
that was really bummed out because people have been saying
some really negative things about her online. I think I
just started thinking and I kept hearing more and more
about bullying online, and I think social media has really
messed up a lot of things. I almost don't want
(28:32):
to get started on that, but I just I told her,
don't pay attention to what other people say about you,
because what they say says more about them than it
does about you. Somebody saying something about you doesn't make
what they say. That's not who you are. You know
who you are, and you just got to take the
high road, you know, send them love. And then after
(28:53):
I did that, I got that could be a song,
and so I just kind of wrote down what I
told her and put it to music. And I think
it's resonated with people because I don't think there's anybody
that hasn't felt somebody, you know, saying something about them.
I don't know, when somebody says something negative about you,
(29:14):
if you listen to it and absorb it or pay
attention to it, give it power. It can affect you
in a negative way and discourage you. You make you
feel less. I just think it's important that you know.
I always my thing is I don't take criticism from
anybody that I wouldn't want advice from. People do say
(29:37):
whatever they want. You just got to take the high
rogue and not push back. Don't go tip for tat
with somebody. Just okay, they said it, I'm sending them off.
I feel sorry for them. That's what they want to
spend their time doing well.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
And you've said reading reviews feels like reading about somebody else,
so you've kind of illustrated in your own way about
your work too. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
Sometimes you know it's weird. I listen to my songs.
They helped me, Like if I'm thinking something that I'll
listen to a song. Yeah. Wow, I should take that advice.
I should take my own advice. It's kind of interesting
that way.
Speaker 5 (30:22):
So you're heading back into East West Studios. You must
be so excited to record a new album. Yeah, and
with Joe. I mean, boy, it's I'm excited for you.
What's different though about you as an artist obviously now
compared to when you walked in there the first time.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
I didn't know anything when I walked in the first time.
I've been having been through a recording session. I've learned
the jargon, I could speak the language at least Now
I don't ask as many questions like what is this me?
What are you talking about? And there's a comfort that
not only I have with the process, but I think
(31:07):
everybody in the band has because we've all worked with
Joe before and Joe knows us, we know Joe. It's
less stressful and less pressure, and I feel like I'm
more relaxed and the band's more relaxed, and maybe Joe.
Joe's comfortable. He's always he's pretty, he doesn't beat around
(31:31):
the bush. He tells you if something's not working, or
try this, do that. But I just think there's a
mutual familiarity and camaraderie that, you know, because we bonded.
I mean, recording an album when you're working together for
an extensive period of time and you're eating you know,
lunch and dinner with everybody for a number of days,
(31:52):
and you you know, just get to be friends. And
Joe and I become friends. We've gone out to dinner
and I just talked to him with morning. You know.
It's just different, and the songs are different this time.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
Evolution, yeah, right, evolution, what traits from your past life
do you think have served you well in your new life.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
I think, you know, working with creative people, I always
realize that the artist is very precious about what they
create because they they're invested in it. It's hard for
them to listen to other people. At the studio, we
would see dailies every day, and you know, if a
movie's three hours long or whatever, and not as many
(32:44):
people are going to see that movie if it's three
hours long, then if it's two hours long, and even
two hours long is plenty along for a movie. The
worst thing you want to do is how somebody come
out and say, it's a good movie, but wow, it's
too long. But and I just use as an example
because I think as an artist, I can get kind
of precious about the songs that I write. But when
(33:07):
when other professionals late i'm working with tell me their opinions,
I value. I welcome those. I don't want to be
so precious about them that I'm not willing to make
changes based on their suggestion. And I just believe that
the more creative input that there is to a project,
(33:31):
the better the song. For songwriting in particular, you know,
and from movie making too. Sometimes the reason you have
a team is a team sport, I'd say it's not
so much an individual sport. Yeah, look at the beat
I think the Beatles, when the four of them were together,
what they created was magical. I mean, they're all great
(33:51):
artists individually, but I don't think them alone was as
much magic as the four of them together were.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
And yet those entities like that, just like organizations and teams,
can be very fragile, you know, especially as a long
time has been spent together, you know, touring and studio time.
Eventually those things sometimes wear thin, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
And sometimes I have to tell my you, I find
myself being resistant to some suggestion I have too. Hey, dude, listen,
you don't know everything. Listen.
Speaker 5 (34:34):
You know this show that I do is is an
extension of where I started, came out of the radio business,
but as an on air person is how I first
started before I got into the senior management. So for me,
taking a walk, you know, came out of that sort
(34:55):
of pursuit of the love of something and passion for something,
wanting to sort of go back to my initial roots
and where my you know, where my heart really is.
So I understand it, at least from my perspective. But
in closing here, you know, taking your perspective on how
you followed your heart, and if someone's listening and they're
(35:19):
in this position of a job, a career course, how
would you get them in their own way to jump
off the curb and do what they love.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
I would say one thing that kind of held me
back a little bit was thinking, you know, I wish
I would have done this when I was younger. Why
an idiot? Am I stupid? What am I thinking trying
to do this now? I think that it's never too
late to there's something you really want to do. At
(35:54):
the end of your life, you can look back and
say I tried this, I really wanted to do it,
I want for it. It didn't work out, but I
gave it my best shot, you know, or maybe it
did work out and wow, Or you can say I
never tried, I wish I would have, and I think I.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
Wish I would have.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Is like the worst of those possibilities. You got to
go for it. Otherwise you're going to be looking back saying,
what if I wish I would have? I wonder if
I could have, you know, just the experience. Even if
I had failed at this, or it hadn't worked out,
or you know, I didn't work with Joe or whatever,
I still would have enjoyed the learning experience of the
(36:38):
in the ride of trying it. And what's the downside?
Speaker 5 (36:44):
Well, you know way more about movies than I know,
but this is the stuff that certainly movies are made of.
Who's going to play you in the movie.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Robert Downey, jor.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Go.
Speaker 5 (37:01):
Quite a life there, right, It's an amazing story. The
music is fantastic. I can't wait to hear the new music.
And I really appreciate how it took us behind the
scenes there to the creation and your amazing story. And
Steve bardwell, I'm so glad that you're on Taking a Walk.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Well, thank you very much, happy to be here, thanks
for having.
Speaker 5 (37:23):
Me, and come back again anytime.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
Thank you very much. Baz.
Speaker 6 (37:29):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking
a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
and wherever you get your podcasts.
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