December 6, 2025 • 31 mins
In this extraordinary episode of Takin’ A Walk, host Buzz Knight sits down with Oscar and Emmy-nominated documentary filmmaker Rick Korn for an intimate conversation about the power of music to transform lives,.Rick’s latest documentary, “Cat’s in the Cradle: The Song That Changed Our Lives,” explores one of the most iconic and emotionally resonant songs in American music history, revealing how Harry Chapin’s timeless classic continues to influence musicians, families, and communities decades after its release.
Rick Korn has built his remarkable career around creating socially conscious documentaries that don’t just document history—they inspire people to take action and make a difference in the world. Rick has dedicated himself to telling inspiring music stories that illuminate the intersection of artistry and activism, showing how musicians can leverage their platforms to address society’s most pressing challenges. His work with legendary artists and humanitarian causes has positioned him as one of the most important documentary filmmakers working in the music space today.
The conversation begins with Rick sharing the origin story of his deep connection to Harry Chapin, the singer-songwriter whose commitment to fighting hunger and poverty was as legendary as his musical talent. Harry Chapin wasn’t just a hitmaker who gave us “Cat’s in the Cradle,” “Taxi,” “W.O.L.D.,” and other chart-topping songs—he was a tireless activist who gave away an estimated half of his concert earnings to charitable causes. In 1975, Harry Chapin co-founded World Hunger Year, which later became WHYHunger, an organization that continues to fight food insecurity in 24 countries around the world, affecting millions of lives every month. His impact on the philanthropic world was so profound that he received the Congressional Gold Medal posthumously, and his legacy continues to inspire new generations of artists to use their fame for good.
Rick explains how this song, written by Harry’s wife Sandy, became more than just a hit record—it became a cultural mirror that reflected back to America the consequences of misplaced priorities, the pain of missed opportunities with loved ones, and the universal struggle between career ambitions and family responsibilities. The song’s narrative about a father too busy to spend time with his son, only to find that same son too busy for him in later years, struck a chord that continues to resonate more than fifty years after its release.
What makes Rick’s latest documentary so compelling is the diverse range of voices he assembled to explore the song’s impact. Billy Joel provides fascinating insights into the craft of songwriting and how “Cat’s in the Cradle” achieved something rare in popular music—a perfect marriage of melody, lyric, and universal truth that transcends generations. Billy Joel’s own relationship with Harry Chapin as a mentor and friend adds emotional depth to his reflections on the song’s enduring power. He discusses how opening for Harry Chapin’s band taught him not just about performing, but about using music as a force for positive change in the world.
Rick shares the story of interviewing Darryl DMC McDaniels and being struck by the raw honesty of his reaction to “Cat’s in the Cradle.” Despite coming from a completely different musical tradition, DMC connected deeply with the song’s message about fatherhood, presence, and the choices we make about how we spend our time.
The documentary also features Dee Snider of Twisted Sister, whose interview began with him declaring his dislike for acoustic music, only to confess that “Cat’s in the Cradle” was the one song that broke through his resistance. This moment perfectly illustrates the song’s unique power—it can reach people who might otherwise never connect with folk-influenced storytelling music.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Harry was going into the city to meet with his
management and agent about not doing so many of these
benefit shows, and that night he was going to do
a benefit show.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
So I'm buzz night and welcome to the Taking a
Walk Podcast. Now check us out on Apple or Spotify
or iHeart or wherever you get your podcasts. Do follow us,
leave us a review, leave us a rating, tell us
how we're doing. We'd love to be able to hear
from you, and we love talking to real people who've
got real stories to tell on the Taking a Walk Podcast.
(00:38):
On this episode, Rick Korn is our guest. He's an
OSCAR and Emmy nominated filmmaker. He's dedicated his career to
creating socially conscious documentaries that truly make a difference. His
latest work, Cats in the Cradle, The Song That Changed
Our Lives, exploring the profound and lasting impact of Harry
(01:00):
Chapin's iconic song Cats in the Cradle. Now do check
out on the Music Save Me Podcast. Our host Lynn
Hoffman has a great episode also focused on this documentary,
where she talks with Darryl Run, dmc McDaniels, and also
d Snyder. Remember him from Twisted's sister fame. So that's
a great companion episode to this particular episode with Rick Korn.
(01:25):
We'll talk to Rick next on Taking a Walk.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Well, Rick Corn, welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
It's so nice to have you on.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
It's a pleasure to be on.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
We have a lot to unpack. So before we unpack
everything about your new documentary, and I want to talk
about some of your past work as well, we like
to open up the Taking a Walk Podcast with like
a little ice breaker question. It's the Okay, who would
you take a walk with? And where would you take
that walk.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I'm going to mention my mom first, but I'll put
that aside. I think the person come on now, No,
that's two of an obvious one. But it's interesting because
my mother died in two thousand and four and I
often think about, boy, wouldn't be great to just dollar up,
(02:22):
you know, call her up, And so that that was
my first reaction. The second reaction that I have is
I was creative partners with a gentleman by the name
of Carl Perkins, who wrote the song Blue Sweight Shoes,
part of the Million Dollar Quartet Uh, and we did
some really great things together that really changed my career
(02:46):
and changed my viewpoint on a lot of things. So
I would have to say Carl. Then the second person
who I never met but I always wanted to do
a documentary on was Roberto Clemente. And I'm a Yankee fan,
so it's not like I was a Pittsburgh Pirate fan
or anything, but he was a He was a lot
like Harry, you know, he was the baseball version of
(03:08):
Airy that would be a great, great person to have known.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Heck of a player, and he had one of maybe
the greatest throwing arm as a right fielder, like ever
right Like I remember seeing him wind up to throw
somebody out who was advancing from second to third or
you know, he just was just a cannon.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, amazing. And I witnessed that at Chase Stadium when
they played the Mets, and I was a big Clementy fan,
and I saw him throw out Cleon Jones who was
running from first base to home on a ball in
(03:55):
the gap, and he picks up the ball and he's
at the like three seventy five mark a frozer from
there all the way to home plate. It was the
most amazing thing I've ever seen. But anyway, we digressed.
But the other thing about Roberto Cometti that makes it
so uh so fascinating is is his what he did
(04:19):
for people who were hungry and people in his country.
And he's quite quite an amazing person.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Overall, oh incredible, a humanitarian. And we didn't grow up
too far away from each other. I grew up in Stanford, Connecticut,
so we were you were, you know, across across the
water there a bit. Yeah, so you became first connected,
I'm guessing with with music from your your time living
(04:48):
in Long Island and absorbing it all that was coming
out of New York City. And I'm sure the radio
was part of that as well, wasn't it. Oh?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Absolutely? You know, back in our day, the radio station was.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
W n W. I worked, I was privileged to work
part time there on the weekends.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah. That it was just a great station back and
that's where you heard you know, the Olmen Brothers, uh
and you know the you know the you know the
Beatles of course when they started, the Rolling Stones and
the Who and you know all the great amazing music
(05:28):
they came through New York. It came through you know,
w n W and they had great DJs and of
course the Hungerthon launched on w N E W back
in the day for the Why Hunger hungerth On, so
they were there was that connection and they started every
Thanksgiving of when they started the hungerth On with Arlow
(05:51):
Guthries Alice's Restaurant.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
You remember that, of course I do, Yeah, I do,
and I you know Hungerthon. You know, my responsibility as
a weekend warrior there was really to you know, be
that conduit to Pete for Natal and the rest of
the staff that was you know, most many times they'd
(06:13):
be over at the United Nations there with Father Bill
ayres Y right, and so it I reflect on that
time often and it really leads me to the new
documentary about Harry Chapin because and I think about Harry
and you know, the Hunger thun because it matters more
(06:36):
now than ever for what he did and what people
need to know that Harry Chapin did.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Right, Yeah, you know, right now. What is amazing about
what Harry and Bill started fifty years ago, this is
the fiftieth anniversary of Why Hunger is that it it
is more important than ever. I was on the phone
(07:04):
with those folks yesterday and they've seen a three hundred
and fifty percent increase in the Hunger hotline calls. There's
an enormous need right now. When Harry and Bill started
Why Hunger, that there were about twenty million people in
the United States that were food insecure. Going into twenty
(07:29):
twenty five, there were fifty million, and I heard or
bread numbers that by two thousand. By the end of
twenty twenty six, we can look at close to one
hundred million people that are food insecure. That you know,
we need to rely on the food banks and need
(07:50):
to rely on food assistance. And unfortunately, in this cool
world right now, it's worse than ever and it's the
organizations that are making a difference today. They're on the
front lines of this problem. Snap programs are being cut,
(08:12):
Usaid has been cut. They work in twenty four countries
around the world. But what is amazing, and I think
this gets back to the film a little bit, because
I do feel if there was no Cats in the Cradle,
there wouldn't have been a hy Hunger because it gave
Harry the platform, Harry en Bill the platform to create
(08:36):
these charities Why Hunger in them Long Island Cares and
so the fact that fifty years later these organizations are
more relevant, sadly more relevant than ever is a testament
to the brilliance of the idea.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
And he was so early, maybe the earliest. But I
could debate that a little bit about Harry because I
think John Lennon, you remember, he was doing the work
for the hospital.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
It was that Willowbrook, well Willobrook was the hospital on
Long Island, that it was a horrible situation and it
was the reporter.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Was aah, that's right. So I mean John early into
cause related from you know, greater good from the heart activity.
But in thinking about over the years Harry J. Chapin's legacy,
I think he really was the first that really used
(09:39):
that platform, which then would become so much bigger from
other artists. Obviously the you know We Are the World
and you know just you know, other great work that
other folks did, But Harry truly was a trailblazer.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
He was Can Reagan said in her first film they
would have and I think we kind of touched upon
it in this film. There wouldn't have been We Are
in the World USA for Africa if it wasn't for Harry.
Harry inspired him, and you know Ken Craigan and Harry
Belafonte and you know, all of those folks back then,
(10:21):
Kenny Rodgers and who carried on Harry's legacy of activism.
Where Harry was different than everyone else is Harry didn't
have any pro He didn't, you know, unlike Dylan who
had protest songs, and Joan Baez, you know, and Pete
(10:41):
Seeger and you know kind of had that protest song mentality,
Harry didn't have many protest songs. I guess. Sniper was
really a brilliant song about the shooter from Texas, A
and M. Really in that song he touched on the
mental illness of it all, which was quite brilliant. But
(11:03):
other than that he did the work. Harry went out
and spent insanely too much time, which really hurt his career,
you know, as he was reaching the point of his death.
In fact, the day he died, he was heading into
New York City to meet with his stepbrother who was
(11:26):
part of Ken Craigan's management team and his agent, and
they were going to read him the Riot Act because
he was spending too much time on hunger and poverty
in wy Hunger and not enough time on his career.
Harry wasn't going to listen to them, but it was
that faithful day, that's what he was going to do.
(11:48):
He was then he was then going into the city
to meet with his management and agent about not doing
so many of these benefit shows, and that night he
was going to do a benefit show. So Harry wasn't
going to listen. He was just so passionate and maybe
(12:09):
to the point of obsession. It's not a good business
model for sure.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Person I can't leave out when I think of the
cause related activities is obviously George Harrison with Bangladesh. And
I'm sure you remember, but I certainly remember because I
was at any WFM when the Hunger thon was going on,
and I picked up the phone because I was taking
(12:37):
the celebrity calls to hook them up with Bill Ayers
and Deep Fornatale there at the un and they're on
the line with the distant, you know, overseas audible sound
of a phone call was George Harrison. And George ended
up doing the interview actually with I think Pete and
(13:01):
Dave Herman. So you know, we can't leave George out
in this equation. But it's it's so interesting thinking about
how you know, George Harrison calls and in tribute to
Harry's work and his mission, Well, here's.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
The interesting and we point this out in our first film,
went it out do something. Harry and Bill were inspired
by the concert for Bangladesh. That's what inspired them to
start Y Hunger and they tried to do a concert
at the UN and it never happened. And Harry and
(13:34):
Bill on Bill's radio show On This Rock, which was
a ABC radio show pl right w P eventually went
to PLJ, but at this point in time in the seventies,
he was on ABC Radio that eventually became PLJ, but
so it was a nationwide show. And they pointed out
(13:56):
that Harry points out in the film that you can't
make this happen with their failure of the UN concert,
which they modeled after the Bangladesh concert. You can't make
this work with just one concert, or two concerts or
three concerts. This is a commitment. You have to build
(14:18):
an organization. And you hear, you know, through that radio episode,
how they've started to formulate what became Y Hunger. What's
amazing about again by Hunger I'm doing the fiftieth anniversary
hung Than Anniversary Concert in Asbury Park, New Jersey on
December fourteenth, and it's an amazing prow of folks. Many
(14:43):
are new to why hunger many or not been doing
it for been part of it for forty years. So
here we are later, fifty years later, now doing the
concert that we hope will raise a lot of money
because we're in this incredible time of you know, hunger
and poverty around the world.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
How long did it take you to work on and
finish this documentary?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
This was incredibly fast, and it was fast because of
two reasons. The first is we did a Cat's in
the Cradle scene in the first in the first film,
which kind of focused on the pop culture nature of it.
You know, we use a lot of the song is
used in a lot of commercials and a lot of
(15:32):
TV shows, and it was a fun scene to do.
And after my partner s A. Baron and I worked
on our film of Father's Promise, we got together with
Jason Chapin and said, you know, I think there's a
film here with Cats in the Cradle. You know, it
bugged me from the time we did that scene. My
(15:55):
partner and I would say, as we're editing, he says,
you know, there's just there's a documentary just in that
one song and the influence it had, and the power
of a song to change people, to educate people, enlighten them.
And then the other side of that, as I mentioned,
is that it gave them the platform to now, you know,
(16:16):
use that song to save lives for all these years.
So we said, I don't know, is it a short film,
is it a you know, a feature documentary. And as
we got into it more and more we realized, no, this,
this is this is an important story and and a
fun story. So the other part of it is that
(16:40):
when sometimes when you're in the creative flow as we were,
we we knew the topic so well that we were
able to kind of edit this and create this much
quicker than a film for a lot less money because
the film supports Harry's chares, so we wanted to keep
(17:02):
you know, the cost down. All the money was raised
through donations. We have no investors in the film. It
was just such a play. It was just so much
fun creatively working on this film that it moved quickly.
So I would say we were done with a rough
cut of the film and less than a year. We
delivered it eight months ago to our distributor, so it
(17:25):
didn't take us long at all. It was just everything flowed.
It just you know, it's like you hear music artists
talk about that their big hit song which took you know,
three minutes to create, versus another song that took months
and years to create. So that this was our three
minute song.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
That's fantastic because, as I'm sure you know better than I,
the highway is littered with projects like this that take
forever and sometimes never you know, see the light of day,
you know.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Right, that's right. I mean, Went in Doubt took us
five years, and my last film, A Father's Promise, took
ten years because the subject matter. You know, when we
met Mark, it was right after Sandy Hook happened, and
as a professional musician and he wasn't going to play
(18:20):
music again. He couldn't do it, and so it took
time to kind of follow that that journey back to music, healing,
power music, and that's what the film is about.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
You talk to an incredibly interesting group of people, very diverse.
Talk about some of the folks that folks who see
the documentary we'll get to see that are part of
this telling this story.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Sure, on the celebrity side, Billy Joel and I, Billy
Joel and Judy Collins, who's in the film. I really
had them in there because I wanted them to both
define the writing of the song, you know, kind of
(19:22):
that creative process and how Harry created these story songs,
you know, which were incredible, and how it influenced them.
Billy was influenced by Harry. Judy is a song hunter.
She writes her own songs, but you know, she seeked
out the great writers, Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan, you know,
(19:43):
Leonard Cohen, Harry Chapin, you know, and so to get
her perspective was great. D Snyder was a blast because
of he is so real, so genuine, and up to
us about his relationship with his father that I didn't expect.
(20:06):
And you know, he started off the conversation with I
hate acoustic music, and I said to myself, Oh, this
is gonna be a tough one. And he couldn't be
the first of all, he pulls up in a muscle
car that has no top to it. Like he pulls
(20:26):
up in exactly what you would expect d. Snyder to
pull up in, right, I don't remember. I think it
was like a bright red and uh. And we go
and we kind of greet him outside. No cameras. He
gets out of the car. He can't lock his doors,
so he takes the steering wheel out of it and
(20:50):
he carries the steering wheel into the house so no
one could steal the car. That is D and that's
D and so that was great. And him being from
Long Island and I'm from Long Island and we're basically
the same age. It made it really easy. And he
and he opened up about his dad, you know, in
his relationship with his father and his parents overall, and
(21:13):
the fact that they were in depression babies, and his
father was a veteran and you know, wanted him to
be a baseball player. Uh and uh, he had the
ability to be a great baseball player. He decided to
paint his face and become twisted sister.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Yeah. Uh, and he used to come out of his shell,
don't you think, Yeah he does.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
He's great. He was great, easy interviewed, you know, easy
then the and and d m C as well, you
know that was that was great because he's so passionate
about the song and and he you know, created his
own version of the song that he did with Sarah McLaughlin.
(21:57):
That he took his life story and put it into
the all and then kept the cats in the grade
of the Harry chapin part parts of it.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
And and he's so passionate and such a great champion
of why hunger and really knows the topic well in
this film, you know, just hearing his story about you know,
how down and out he was, and you know, meeting
Sarah McLaughlin and then coming up with the idea of
(22:27):
his favorite Sonkats in the Cradle. And so you know,
DFC a special Daryl is a special person and a
great interview and you know, both d both D's brought
so much energy to this film and they made it
so much more enjoyable and you know, unpredictable.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, two of the two of the best people, uh,
without questioning, amazing parts, amazing storytellers, very generous. Somebody told me,
I don't know if you can confirm this is there
somewhere floating around in the universe. A version that DEDE.
Snyder and Daryl McDaniels d did of Cats in the Cradle.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Not that we were able to find out.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Darryl and Jen Chapin did a version of Cats in
the Cradle that apparently was was great, but no one
filmed it, so unfortunately, Uh it did happen. But but
Pat benattar it was great, and Pat just this past
year got the Harry Chapin Humanitarian Award given to her
(23:37):
by Why Hunger. Harry changed her life in that Harry
and Tom Chapin h were you know, met her when
she was doing show songs, and Harry was the one
that said, hey, you need to roughen up your voice
a little bit and do rock and roll, and you know,
she met her husband and the rest of his history.
(23:59):
The amazing thing about all of these interviews, and every
one of them were great, all of those people who
opened up about their lives. And that's the thing you
find about this song in this film is that every
the song is about all of us, you know, and
the film follows in that direction, But it's about all
(24:20):
of us. All of us have a parental experience one
way or another. Even if your father or your mother
wasn't in your life, it still affects you. We don't
get heavy on things at all in this film, but
we do cover, you know, generational trauma, which really explains
the cats in the Cradle father and son dynamic. We
(24:42):
covered that in the film. But other than that, it's
just everyone's real reaction. The YouTube reaction videos that are great.
You know, these people who are in their twenties and
thirties and younger who are hearing the song for the
first time, and you see the fact that the song
has on them. It's amazing. You know, it's a perfectly
(25:04):
written song in that respect that it can be this
multi generational, multicultural song.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Harry was known for these great narrative songs that told
these complete stories. What do you think was really what
made him so distinctive as a songwriter.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
I think in every one of his songs, there's a
lot of truth in there. There's a lot of truth
about him. It's not all about him. If you look
at Taxi, you know it's partially true. He never drove
a taxi. He did get a taxi medallion, but never
drove a taxi. Because his songs are relatable, you know,
(25:48):
his stories are us. You know, Harry points out in
this film he's the father and cats in the Cradle,
He's mister Tanner, He's the person on the bus when bananas.
You know, that's who he is. WLD, you know, he's
the disc jockey. I think what makes it connect is
(26:10):
he's so human. You know, he writes about humans and
his stories are relatable because there's a piece of all
of us in his stories and in many movies. You know,
he was a filmmaker. He was an Academy Award winning filmmaker,
documentary filmmaker.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
So talk about what's going to be next for the documentary,
the circuit and the distribution that you'll go through.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
The film right now is available on Amazon, Amazon Prime
or regular Amazon. It's available on Apple TV and iTunes
and Fandengo, and there's more being added so anyone in
the country in North America can see the film. We're
doing a major Hungerthon concert in on December fourteenth. Our
(27:00):
house Band is run by Mark Ribbler Love Them Yeah. Mark,
for those who don't know, is the music director for
Stephen Van's Aunt's Disciples of Soul and Our house Band
is a combination of the Disciple of Souls in the
East Street Band. We have younger groups, young the Giant,
(27:24):
who are fantastic. Yola who is a multi Grammy nominated
incredibly powerful voice. She's also an actress who was in
the last Elvis movie. She's great. We have Oh the
Dixie Dregs, who are coming out of retirement that a
lot of us older folks will remember. Steve Morse who
(27:47):
people might know from Black Sabbath and Kansas. His group
his music is the Dixie Driggs, who are amazing. The
original band with the Eddy Fox and my good friend
who I grew up with among Alan Rob Morgenstein on drums,
one of the great drummers in the world. We've got
(28:08):
Randy Moore who's in the film you used to write with.
Carl Perkins, who does an amazing version of Kats in
the Cradle and he's going to do that with Amy
Helm at the concert. We have them and the Smith
Rereens are going to be there, The smither Reenes. I
don't want to miss any Danny Clutch is going to
(28:29):
join us as well. We're doing a VIP party at
his h We're doing a summit actually at his gallery
in Hasbury. Which is across from the Stone Pony where
we're doing the show. That same day we're going to
do a artist summit on hunger and poverty. And then
(28:50):
there was a bunch of artists that will be surprised
as on the Jersey.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Sure yeah, I'll bet my god. What a great lineup.
It's so amazing. So what in closing, what do you
hope happens after people watch this film?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I think a couple of important things in this film.
And you know, it's a song about a father and son,
but it really relates to a mom these days as well.
You know, when Sandy wrote those lyrics, it was about
her husband's father and his relationship. In those days, you know,
the wife stayed home and the dad went to work.
(29:33):
In today's world, it's about both mom and dad going
to work. So mom is facing those same issues of
I got to work, but I also want to spend
more time with my kids. And I want people to
get out of this film that we can learn something.
I want them to see that we're all the same
wile all facing the same dilemmas. I want them to
(29:56):
learn that time is short and to make the best
of it with your kids and your family and your grandkids,
and I think that's the most important thing. I think
that ultimately is the feeling you get out of this
film is that don't waste any time. Now is the.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Time, amazing work, your time together, your passions and your
core values and your core beliefs, and you're trying to
make a difference. Congrats on all your work. When in doubt,
do something a father's promise and Cats in the Cradle
that song that changed our lives. Rickcorn, It's really been
(30:39):
an honor to speak with you, and I really appreciate
all that you're doing and giving and making us never
forget the great Harry Chapin.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Thank you, Buzz. It's and honor to be on your show.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
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Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Harry was going into the city to meet with his
management and agent about not doing so many of these
benefit shows, and that night he was going to do
a benefit show.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
So I'm buzz night and welcome to the Taking a
Walk Podcast. Now check us out on Apple or Spotify
or iHeart or wherever you get your podcasts. Do follow us,
leave us a review, leave us a rating, tell us
how we're doing. We'd love to be able to hear
from you, and we love talking to real people who've
got real stories to tell on the Taking a Walk Podcast.
(00:38):
On this episode, Rick Korn is our guest. He's an
OSCAR and Emmy nominated filmmaker. He's dedicated his career to
creating socially conscious documentaries that truly make a difference. His
latest work, Cats in the Cradle, The Song That Changed
Our Lives, exploring the profound and lasting impact of Harry
(01:00):
Chapin's iconic song Cats in the Cradle. Now do check
out on the Music Save Me Podcast. Our host Lynn
Hoffman has a great episode also focused on this documentary,
where she talks with Darryl Run, dmc McDaniels, and also
d Snyder. Remember him from Twisted's sister fame. So that's
a great companion episode to this particular episode with Rick Korn.
(01:25):
We'll talk to Rick next on Taking a Walk.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Well, Rick Corn, welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
It's so nice to have you on.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
It's a pleasure to be on.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
We have a lot to unpack. So before we unpack
everything about your new documentary, and I want to talk
about some of your past work as well, we like
to open up the Taking a Walk Podcast with like
a little ice breaker question. It's the Okay, who would
you take a walk with? And where would you take
that walk.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I'm going to mention my mom first, but I'll put
that aside. I think the person come on now, No,
that's two of an obvious one. But it's interesting because
my mother died in two thousand and four and I
often think about, boy, wouldn't be great to just dollar up,
(02:22):
you know, call her up, And so that that was
my first reaction. The second reaction that I have is
I was creative partners with a gentleman by the name
of Carl Perkins, who wrote the song Blue Sweight Shoes,
part of the Million Dollar Quartet Uh, and we did
some really great things together that really changed my career
(02:46):
and changed my viewpoint on a lot of things. So
I would have to say Carl. Then the second person
who I never met but I always wanted to do
a documentary on was Roberto Clemente. And I'm a Yankee fan,
so it's not like I was a Pittsburgh Pirate fan
or anything, but he was a He was a lot
like Harry, you know, he was the baseball version of
(03:08):
Airy that would be a great, great person to have known.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Heck of a player, and he had one of maybe
the greatest throwing arm as a right fielder, like ever
right Like I remember seeing him wind up to throw
somebody out who was advancing from second to third or
you know, he just was just a cannon.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, amazing. And I witnessed that at Chase Stadium when
they played the Mets, and I was a big Clementy fan,
and I saw him throw out Cleon Jones who was
running from first base to home on a ball in
(03:55):
the gap, and he picks up the ball and he's
at the like three seventy five mark a frozer from
there all the way to home plate. It was the
most amazing thing I've ever seen. But anyway, we digressed.
But the other thing about Roberto Cometti that makes it
so uh so fascinating is is his what he did
(04:19):
for people who were hungry and people in his country.
And he's quite quite an amazing person.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Overall, oh incredible, a humanitarian. And we didn't grow up
too far away from each other. I grew up in Stanford, Connecticut,
so we were you were, you know, across across the
water there a bit. Yeah, so you became first connected,
I'm guessing with with music from your your time living
(04:48):
in Long Island and absorbing it all that was coming
out of New York City. And I'm sure the radio
was part of that as well, wasn't it. Oh?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Absolutely? You know, back in our day, the radio station was.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
W n W. I worked, I was privileged to work
part time there on the weekends.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah. That it was just a great station back and
that's where you heard you know, the Olmen Brothers, uh
and you know the you know the you know the
Beatles of course when they started, the Rolling Stones and
the Who and you know all the great amazing music
(05:28):
they came through New York. It came through you know,
w n W and they had great DJs and of
course the Hungerthon launched on w N E W back
in the day for the Why Hunger hungerth On, so
they were there was that connection and they started every
Thanksgiving of when they started the hungerth On with Arlow
(05:51):
Guthries Alice's Restaurant.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
You remember that, of course I do, Yeah, I do,
and I you know Hungerthon. You know, my responsibility as
a weekend warrior there was really to you know, be
that conduit to Pete for Natal and the rest of
the staff that was you know, most many times they'd
(06:13):
be over at the United Nations there with Father Bill
ayres Y right, and so it I reflect on that
time often and it really leads me to the new
documentary about Harry Chapin because and I think about Harry
and you know, the Hunger thun because it matters more
(06:36):
now than ever for what he did and what people
need to know that Harry Chapin did.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Right, Yeah, you know, right now. What is amazing about
what Harry and Bill started fifty years ago, this is
the fiftieth anniversary of Why Hunger is that it it
is more important than ever. I was on the phone
(07:04):
with those folks yesterday and they've seen a three hundred
and fifty percent increase in the Hunger hotline calls. There's
an enormous need right now. When Harry and Bill started
Why Hunger, that there were about twenty million people in
the United States that were food insecure. Going into twenty
(07:29):
twenty five, there were fifty million, and I heard or
bread numbers that by two thousand. By the end of
twenty twenty six, we can look at close to one
hundred million people that are food insecure. That you know,
we need to rely on the food banks and need
(07:50):
to rely on food assistance. And unfortunately, in this cool
world right now, it's worse than ever and it's the
organizations that are making a difference today. They're on the
front lines of this problem. Snap programs are being cut,
(08:12):
Usaid has been cut. They work in twenty four countries
around the world. But what is amazing, and I think
this gets back to the film a little bit, because
I do feel if there was no Cats in the Cradle,
there wouldn't have been a hy Hunger because it gave
Harry the platform, Harry en Bill the platform to create
(08:36):
these charities Why Hunger in them Long Island Cares and
so the fact that fifty years later these organizations are
more relevant, sadly more relevant than ever is a testament
to the brilliance of the idea.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
And he was so early, maybe the earliest. But I
could debate that a little bit about Harry because I
think John Lennon, you remember, he was doing the work
for the hospital.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
It was that Willowbrook, well Willobrook was the hospital on
Long Island, that it was a horrible situation and it
was the reporter.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Was aah, that's right. So I mean John early into
cause related from you know, greater good from the heart activity.
But in thinking about over the years Harry J. Chapin's legacy,
I think he really was the first that really used
(09:39):
that platform, which then would become so much bigger from
other artists. Obviously the you know We Are the World
and you know just you know, other great work that
other folks did, But Harry truly was a trailblazer.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
He was Can Reagan said in her first film they
would have and I think we kind of touched upon
it in this film. There wouldn't have been We Are
in the World USA for Africa if it wasn't for Harry.
Harry inspired him, and you know Ken Craigan and Harry
Belafonte and you know, all of those folks back then,
(10:21):
Kenny Rodgers and who carried on Harry's legacy of activism.
Where Harry was different than everyone else is Harry didn't
have any pro He didn't, you know, unlike Dylan who
had protest songs, and Joan Baez, you know, and Pete
(10:41):
Seeger and you know kind of had that protest song mentality,
Harry didn't have many protest songs. I guess. Sniper was
really a brilliant song about the shooter from Texas, A
and M. Really in that song he touched on the
mental illness of it all, which was quite brilliant. But
(11:03):
other than that he did the work. Harry went out
and spent insanely too much time, which really hurt his career,
you know, as he was reaching the point of his death.
In fact, the day he died, he was heading into
New York City to meet with his stepbrother who was
(11:26):
part of Ken Craigan's management team and his agent, and
they were going to read him the Riot Act because
he was spending too much time on hunger and poverty
in wy Hunger and not enough time on his career.
Harry wasn't going to listen to them, but it was
that faithful day, that's what he was going to do.
(11:48):
He was then he was then going into the city
to meet with his management and agent about not doing
so many of these benefit shows, and that night he
was going to do a benefit show. So Harry wasn't
going to listen. He was just so passionate and maybe
(12:09):
to the point of obsession. It's not a good business
model for sure.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Person I can't leave out when I think of the
cause related activities is obviously George Harrison with Bangladesh. And
I'm sure you remember, but I certainly remember because I
was at any WFM when the Hunger thon was going on,
and I picked up the phone because I was taking
(12:37):
the celebrity calls to hook them up with Bill Ayers
and Deep Fornatale there at the un and they're on
the line with the distant, you know, overseas audible sound
of a phone call was George Harrison. And George ended
up doing the interview actually with I think Pete and
(13:01):
Dave Herman. So you know, we can't leave George out
in this equation. But it's it's so interesting thinking about
how you know, George Harrison calls and in tribute to
Harry's work and his mission, Well, here's.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
The interesting and we point this out in our first film,
went it out do something. Harry and Bill were inspired
by the concert for Bangladesh. That's what inspired them to
start Y Hunger and they tried to do a concert
at the UN and it never happened. And Harry and
(13:34):
Bill on Bill's radio show On This Rock, which was
a ABC radio show pl right w P eventually went
to PLJ, but at this point in time in the seventies,
he was on ABC Radio that eventually became PLJ, but
so it was a nationwide show. And they pointed out
(13:56):
that Harry points out in the film that you can't
make this happen with their failure of the UN concert,
which they modeled after the Bangladesh concert. You can't make
this work with just one concert, or two concerts or
three concerts. This is a commitment. You have to build
(14:18):
an organization. And you hear, you know, through that radio episode,
how they've started to formulate what became Y Hunger. What's
amazing about again by Hunger I'm doing the fiftieth anniversary
hung Than Anniversary Concert in Asbury Park, New Jersey on
December fourteenth, and it's an amazing prow of folks. Many
(14:43):
are new to why hunger many or not been doing
it for been part of it for forty years. So
here we are later, fifty years later, now doing the
concert that we hope will raise a lot of money
because we're in this incredible time of you know, hunger
and poverty around the world.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
How long did it take you to work on and
finish this documentary?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
This was incredibly fast, and it was fast because of
two reasons. The first is we did a Cat's in
the Cradle scene in the first in the first film,
which kind of focused on the pop culture nature of it.
You know, we use a lot of the song is
used in a lot of commercials and a lot of
(15:32):
TV shows, and it was a fun scene to do.
And after my partner s A. Baron and I worked
on our film of Father's Promise, we got together with
Jason Chapin and said, you know, I think there's a
film here with Cats in the Cradle. You know, it
bugged me from the time we did that scene. My
(15:55):
partner and I would say, as we're editing, he says,
you know, there's just there's a documentary just in that
one song and the influence it had, and the power
of a song to change people, to educate people, enlighten them.
And then the other side of that, as I mentioned,
is that it gave them the platform to now, you know,
(16:16):
use that song to save lives for all these years.
So we said, I don't know, is it a short film,
is it a you know, a feature documentary. And as
we got into it more and more we realized, no, this,
this is this is an important story and and a
fun story. So the other part of it is that
(16:40):
when sometimes when you're in the creative flow as we were,
we we knew the topic so well that we were
able to kind of edit this and create this much
quicker than a film for a lot less money because
the film supports Harry's chares, so we wanted to keep
(17:02):
you know, the cost down. All the money was raised
through donations. We have no investors in the film. It
was just such a play. It was just so much
fun creatively working on this film that it moved quickly.
So I would say we were done with a rough
cut of the film and less than a year. We
delivered it eight months ago to our distributor, so it
(17:25):
didn't take us long at all. It was just everything flowed.
It just you know, it's like you hear music artists
talk about that their big hit song which took you know,
three minutes to create, versus another song that took months
and years to create. So that this was our three
minute song.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
That's fantastic because, as I'm sure you know better than I,
the highway is littered with projects like this that take
forever and sometimes never you know, see the light of day,
you know.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Right, that's right. I mean, Went in Doubt took us
five years, and my last film, A Father's Promise, took
ten years because the subject matter. You know, when we
met Mark, it was right after Sandy Hook happened, and
as a professional musician and he wasn't going to play
(18:20):
music again. He couldn't do it, and so it took
time to kind of follow that that journey back to music, healing,
power music, and that's what the film is about.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
You talk to an incredibly interesting group of people, very diverse.
Talk about some of the folks that folks who see
the documentary we'll get to see that are part of
this telling this story.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Sure, on the celebrity side, Billy Joel and I, Billy
Joel and Judy Collins, who's in the film. I really
had them in there because I wanted them to both
define the writing of the song, you know, kind of
(19:22):
that creative process and how Harry created these story songs,
you know, which were incredible, and how it influenced them.
Billy was influenced by Harry. Judy is a song hunter.
She writes her own songs, but you know, she seeked
out the great writers, Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan, you know,
(19:43):
Leonard Cohen, Harry Chapin, you know, and so to get
her perspective was great. D Snyder was a blast because
of he is so real, so genuine, and up to
us about his relationship with his father that I didn't expect.
(20:06):
And you know, he started off the conversation with I
hate acoustic music, and I said to myself, Oh, this
is gonna be a tough one. And he couldn't be
the first of all, he pulls up in a muscle
car that has no top to it. Like he pulls
(20:26):
up in exactly what you would expect d. Snyder to
pull up in, right, I don't remember. I think it
was like a bright red and uh. And we go
and we kind of greet him outside. No cameras. He
gets out of the car. He can't lock his doors,
so he takes the steering wheel out of it and
(20:50):
he carries the steering wheel into the house so no
one could steal the car. That is D and that's
D and so that was great. And him being from
Long Island and I'm from Long Island and we're basically
the same age. It made it really easy. And he
and he opened up about his dad, you know, in
his relationship with his father and his parents overall, and
(21:13):
the fact that they were in depression babies, and his
father was a veteran and you know, wanted him to
be a baseball player. Uh and uh, he had the
ability to be a great baseball player. He decided to
paint his face and become twisted sister.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Yeah. Uh, and he used to come out of his shell,
don't you think, Yeah he does.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
He's great. He was great, easy interviewed, you know, easy
then the and and d m C as well, you
know that was that was great because he's so passionate
about the song and and he you know, created his
own version of the song that he did with Sarah McLaughlin.
(21:57):
That he took his life story and put it into
the all and then kept the cats in the grade
of the Harry chapin part parts of it.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
And and he's so passionate and such a great champion
of why hunger and really knows the topic well in
this film, you know, just hearing his story about you know,
how down and out he was, and you know, meeting
Sarah McLaughlin and then coming up with the idea of
(22:27):
his favorite Sonkats in the Cradle. And so you know,
DFC a special Daryl is a special person and a
great interview and you know, both d both D's brought
so much energy to this film and they made it
so much more enjoyable and you know, unpredictable.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, two of the two of the best people, uh,
without questioning, amazing parts, amazing storytellers, very generous. Somebody told me,
I don't know if you can confirm this is there
somewhere floating around in the universe. A version that DEDE.
Snyder and Daryl McDaniels d did of Cats in the Cradle.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Not that we were able to find out.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Darryl and Jen Chapin did a version of Cats in
the Cradle that apparently was was great, but no one
filmed it, so unfortunately, Uh it did happen. But but
Pat benattar it was great, and Pat just this past
year got the Harry Chapin Humanitarian Award given to her
(23:37):
by Why Hunger. Harry changed her life in that Harry
and Tom Chapin h were you know, met her when
she was doing show songs, and Harry was the one
that said, hey, you need to roughen up your voice
a little bit and do rock and roll, and you know,
she met her husband and the rest of his history.
(23:59):
The amazing thing about all of these interviews, and every
one of them were great, all of those people who
opened up about their lives. And that's the thing you
find about this song in this film is that every
the song is about all of us, you know, and
the film follows in that direction, But it's about all
(24:20):
of us. All of us have a parental experience one
way or another. Even if your father or your mother
wasn't in your life, it still affects you. We don't
get heavy on things at all in this film, but
we do cover, you know, generational trauma, which really explains
the cats in the Cradle father and son dynamic. We
(24:42):
covered that in the film. But other than that, it's
just everyone's real reaction. The YouTube reaction videos that are great.
You know, these people who are in their twenties and
thirties and younger who are hearing the song for the
first time, and you see the fact that the song
has on them. It's amazing. You know, it's a perfectly
(25:04):
written song in that respect that it can be this
multi generational, multicultural song.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Harry was known for these great narrative songs that told
these complete stories. What do you think was really what
made him so distinctive as a songwriter.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
I think in every one of his songs, there's a
lot of truth in there. There's a lot of truth
about him. It's not all about him. If you look
at Taxi, you know it's partially true. He never drove
a taxi. He did get a taxi medallion, but never
drove a taxi. Because his songs are relatable, you know,
(25:48):
his stories are us. You know, Harry points out in
this film he's the father and cats in the Cradle,
He's mister Tanner, He's the person on the bus when bananas.
You know, that's who he is. WLD, you know, he's
the disc jockey. I think what makes it connect is
(26:10):
he's so human. You know, he writes about humans and
his stories are relatable because there's a piece of all
of us in his stories and in many movies. You know,
he was a filmmaker. He was an Academy Award winning filmmaker,
documentary filmmaker.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
So talk about what's going to be next for the documentary,
the circuit and the distribution that you'll go through.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
The film right now is available on Amazon, Amazon Prime
or regular Amazon. It's available on Apple TV and iTunes
and Fandengo, and there's more being added so anyone in
the country in North America can see the film. We're
doing a major Hungerthon concert in on December fourteenth. Our
(27:00):
house Band is run by Mark Ribbler Love Them Yeah. Mark,
for those who don't know, is the music director for
Stephen Van's Aunt's Disciples of Soul and Our house Band
is a combination of the Disciple of Souls in the
East Street Band. We have younger groups, young the Giant,
(27:24):
who are fantastic. Yola who is a multi Grammy nominated
incredibly powerful voice. She's also an actress who was in
the last Elvis movie. She's great. We have Oh the
Dixie Dregs, who are coming out of retirement that a
lot of us older folks will remember. Steve Morse who
(27:47):
people might know from Black Sabbath and Kansas. His group
his music is the Dixie Driggs, who are amazing. The
original band with the Eddy Fox and my good friend
who I grew up with among Alan Rob Morgenstein on drums,
one of the great drummers in the world. We've got
(28:08):
Randy Moore who's in the film you used to write with.
Carl Perkins, who does an amazing version of Kats in
the Cradle and he's going to do that with Amy
Helm at the concert. We have them and the Smith
Rereens are going to be there, The smither Reenes. I
don't want to miss any Danny Clutch is going to
(28:29):
join us as well. We're doing a VIP party at
his h We're doing a summit actually at his gallery
in Hasbury. Which is across from the Stone Pony where
we're doing the show. That same day we're going to
do a artist summit on hunger and poverty. And then
(28:50):
there was a bunch of artists that will be surprised
as on the Jersey.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Sure yeah, I'll bet my god. What a great lineup.
It's so amazing. So what in closing, what do you
hope happens after people watch this film?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I think a couple of important things in this film.
And you know, it's a song about a father and son,
but it really relates to a mom these days as well.
You know, when Sandy wrote those lyrics, it was about
her husband's father and his relationship. In those days, you know,
the wife stayed home and the dad went to work.
(29:33):
In today's world, it's about both mom and dad going
to work. So mom is facing those same issues of
I got to work, but I also want to spend
more time with my kids. And I want people to
get out of this film that we can learn something.
I want them to see that we're all the same
wile all facing the same dilemmas. I want them to
(29:56):
learn that time is short and to make the best
of it with your kids and your family and your grandkids,
and I think that's the most important thing. I think
that ultimately is the feeling you get out of this
film is that don't waste any time. Now is the.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Time, amazing work, your time together, your passions and your
core values and your core beliefs, and you're trying to
make a difference. Congrats on all your work. When in doubt,
do something a father's promise and Cats in the Cradle
that song that changed our lives. Rickcorn, It's really been
(30:39):
an honor to speak with you, and I really appreciate
all that you're doing and giving and making us never
forget the great Harry Chapin.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Thank you, Buzz. It's and honor to be on your show.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
and follow us you never miss an episode. Taking a
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