May 12, 2026 • 70 mins
This week on Thanks Dad, Ego sits down with singer and actor Billy Porter! To start, Billy thanks God and the universe for giving him more time after his recent medical troubles. Ego and Billy chat about how they ground themselves, accepting yourself, and starting to feel your age. They also dive into reclaiming your narrative on the internet, Billy’s new children’s book, and what’s been making him uncomfortable lately.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Yeah, and she lost her mind and then she went crazy.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Okay, wait I should introduce.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
You, Yes, introduce me what you need I need to do?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Okay. My next guest is Emmy Grammy and Tony Award
winner Okay, and their next book, Songbird in the Light,
is out right now. It's Billy Porter. Hi, Hello, how
are you. I'm fabulous. I'm so happy to be here
with you.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I'm so happy you're here. I've been such a fan
for a really long time. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Likewise, truly, truly and honestly just reading the bio when
I said we need the.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
O, Yes, we do need the Oh, let's get the O.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
It's no rush, right, No, I'm not rushing.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Yeah, after after the last year of my life, I'm
not rushing about anything anymore.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
What happened in the last year.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
So I had sepsis last year.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I don't know if you know that. I did not
know that I had sepsis last year.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
In August started with a urinary infection in England when
I was starting as the MC making my West End
debut in Cabaret, Okay, Candor and Ebbs Cabaret, and then.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
You know, I got a urinary infection.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
And you know, I love London and their medication is trash.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Listen about getting medicine in Europe, but you can't get anything.
I got burnt on the forehead by a hairstylist in September,
and I was like, I need some neosporing so they
don't star if we don't have that. You need a
prescription for neospor and of course, like whatever the equivalent is,
and they're like, no, because it has an antibiotic in it,
you need perscription.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
I'm like for neosporin, right, and so so ten weeks
and four rounds of week ass ANIMI later it was
a kidney infection with kidney stones.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
This is April then and only then did they give.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Me the strongest stuff that they had at the time. Yeah,
and it seemed to have gone away. Fast forward to August.
I'm doing Cabaret here. I'm in my fourth week. Maricha
Wallace and I three black people in the leads of
this musical that has never had black people telling, you know,
(02:34):
our version of the Holocaust story because we were there too,
and it was you know, I was really I felt
really like in my purpose and in the kidney stone
pain came back and turns out the kidney stone was
stuck at my urethra. There was so much old backed
(02:54):
up bile and infection that had not been dealt with
that when they put the stint in to do the
routines procedure to like redirect the urine and blasphemy with American.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Animals, okay, to get it gone.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah, it bubbled up and went into my bloodstream. Oh,
and I went euro sceptic. I was on Echmo for
three days. I checked myself in onto Tuesday night. I
woke up on a Saturday night compartment syndrome in my
leg where the muscles sort of you know, turning on
(03:31):
themselves and cut off the circulation. They had to give
me a fasci art of me and cut me on
both sides of my calf and then from my knee
to my hip.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
It's been crazy. I'm still healing.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah, it's a slow process. I'm so grateful to be
alive and I'm slowly getting back on the horse.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I'm grateful you're here. I'm grateful you're alive. Crazy.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
It was really really crazy and something that makes you go, wow,
it's I never I've never thought about death a lot.
I grew up in the Pentecostal church.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
You know, we were exposed to death.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Death is going home, you know, homegoing going, blah blah whatever.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I was looking at caskets at five, open caskets at five,
Like I don't have a fear like that, Like I
have a relationship with Yeah, that's what.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
But I never thought about it.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
And the fact that I I think more now about
my mortality and what am I doing right now?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Then?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
You know, how am I showing up even more grounded
and more present than I've been before?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
You know? So I'm grateful to be here.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yeah, I'm so grateful. I ask you, what is so just?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (04:52):
The ECMO machine is essentially the new life support machine. Okay,
I was on life support all of my organs that
shut down.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Right for three days? It was crazy.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, So to be I am so grateful that you
are here. I'm grateful you're here with me now. And
you say you are so much more present and try
to be grounded when you enter a space. What kinds
of things do you do to ground yourself day to day?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Well, I'm a big fan of a book called The
Artist's Way.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I have it on my Shelf.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
By Julia Cameron. Take it off your shelf and do it. Okay,
I did it in two thousand. I did the business
version in twenty ten. I did it again last year.
There's one thing that I take from it all the time,
which are the morning pages. It's sort of very similar
to journaling. You're supposed to write three pages long hand
every day, stream of consciousness, no judgment on anything or anything.
(05:51):
I type them now because I've been doing it for
so long that my mind body connection is.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
And there as if I were writing. But that grounds me.
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
My mom passed a couple of years ago, and she
was Pentecostal, and the day we put her in the ground,
I became Buddhist.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Oh, because you said, Mommy's not here anymore, because.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Had I put her through enough, you know, being gay
and refusing to go in the closet and being who
you know they put her through. So, you know, Church
first put her through so much. I was like, I'm
not gonna put her through another thing.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, you said, I'm not going to tell her I'm
not Christian no more. I'm Buddhist.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I let her die before I became Buddhist.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
The day they literally they put her on the ground.
And my sister's best friend is a Buddhist, and I
was like, come here. And so I've been slowly trying to, like,
you know, figure.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Out what that is. And I really love the meditation.
I love I just love the tenets.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
It's just it's like we're just here to be present,
We're here to be available, the releasing of permanence, everything
being impermanent and releasing everything so you don't suffer. You know,
(07:22):
it's not what happens, it's our response to it that
causes us to suffer so greatly. And so I've been
trying to practice that a little bit more and not
suffer so much because we.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Do bring on a lot of our own suffering because
we want things to be different.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
We want things to be different as opposed to this
is what it is.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Let's be right where we are. You know.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
You see, I'm Christian, but I read a lot of Buddhists.
Well I'm Christian too, I'm a Christian Buddhists.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I'm Christian Buddhists.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, I read a lot of have you
read you are here?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Han? No, But I'm gonna get it. Okay, you get it.
I'll read the artist's way, get it off the shelf.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
I do morning pages, by the way you do, because
my therapist suggested it years ago. But I don't, you know,
I don't think she mentioned to me it was a
thing from.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
The artist way.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I think like years later I heard someone say it
was from the artist's way. But I do a page
stream of consciousness. But it's so fascinating because my I
can't write fast enough for how my brains. Yeah, my brain.
I'm like, well, I'm already onto the grocery list and
oh and oh what a beautiful light my morning page.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I think I have it. We are artists.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
We all have I'm over here diagnosing myself every day
with something new. It's really crazy.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Ipist about three months ago, maybe a bit more, I
was like, do you think I'm ADHD? And she did
a spit take. She just she had just taken some
drank some water and she did a spit take.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
It was like, Billy, do I think you're a d
h D?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
You are the poster child?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Like okay, okay, right, you know, I I just my
friend told me. She well, she let chat GPT diagnose
her recently, which.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Is we ain't doing chat GBT right now?
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Why are we not doing it?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I don't do it at all? But why, boy? Tell
me why?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Because they find ice Trump, we're boycotting them.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Okay, and that is good to know.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
You hear you heard they get off the phone. There
are other places.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
There ap for chat GPT. Yeah there's an app. What
year do I live in? No more chat GBT? Go
to other places until they get their stuff together. Can
we cuss on here?
Speaker 1 (09:44):
You can cuss, you could do it, so we get
that till they get that ship together. Okay, you heard
of you know what to do?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Get off of there.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
You say there's other places. I'm so behind. I'm not
still on Google.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Okay, me too, i google everything. I'm still on Google.
I'm on Google as well. There's for the moment, I mean, is.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Any very few places a part and that exactly Let's
be honest about that.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
And that's the hard part about now what does this
what does our activism look like in this new world order?
You know, when I think about the old days, the
Birmingham bus boycop was what eighteen months or something, not
one afternoon for no kings every four months, no shade. Okay,
(10:30):
but like we've become so our lives have become.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So convenient, our lives are very.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
That like, we don't even know what it's like to
get up and go to a store anymore.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
And then the.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Stores that are available, I was, I was doing this
the other day. The stores that are available, Well, where
do I get a step ladder?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Target, Walmart or Amazon like those of Its true, it's
like where do we eat? Where do we even begin
the process to try to extract ourselves from this billionaire
takeover culture.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
It's yeah, very difficult. It's challenging.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
And I thought you were going to mention when you
go to a store, because I'll go for like basic
toiletries to CBS and everything's locked up, and then I
gotta page the employee on.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
The machine a fever.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I know, but I'm like, but also, it's cheaper, labor
less people to have to be in lost prevention. And
so I'm pushing the button. I'm pushing the button, but
then so is everyone on every aisle and it's just
one man running around with a key. I feel very
bad for them, and I'm like, this is not I
just wanted to pop in and get toothpaste. And now
it's a ten minute, yes, an hour an hour.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
For some toothpaste.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So then for convenience, you're like, or do I just
get it on Amazon? I still haven't gotten toothpaste on Amazon.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
But I do not eat it.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, there's some things I.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Will get my espresso pa, you like minspresso, butts.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I don't drink coffee. You don't, not really, I've had it.
Let me be clear. So if somebody sees me out
in the while with the coffee, be like that bitch
ordered coffee for me. I don't really drink it, like
it is rare.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Because you don't need it a little bit of that.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
But also, I never wanted to be addicted to something,
but now I think I'm addicted to macha, which is.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
The same thing.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
I know, but it started as a ritual, which I'm
sure coffee did for me. People me on my high horse.
I don't drink coffee. I don't drink coffee, but I
do drink macha every day. This is a mancha right here.
But it's mostly fool. See, I'm not addicted. I'm not tweaking,
but I there's just certain things that I'm like, you know,
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna get that that thing
(12:42):
on the internet. You gotta go be with the people, right,
you understand.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
I like going to the store. I go to the
grocery store. I did not get my groceries delivered.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
I go every day.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
I go almost every day because it's right down the
street and I could order for for.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
A couple of days.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
I can buy for a couple of days, as opposed
to what I used to do where I came from.
You know, I learned how to cook from my grandmother,
my mom, my great aunt. There were decades that I
just really didn't know how to cook for more than
for less than fifteen people. Yeah, so I was always
overbuying and always overcooking. And then I found the the
(13:21):
Hello Fresh.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I thought you would say blue April.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Okay, yes, April Fresh.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
I've tried them all, yes, and now I understand, Oh,
if I'm cooking for myself, this is the portion I
need to buy. So I've learned how to buy the
portions now for what I want to cook. But I
always go unless I'm getting one of those boxes. Yeah,
I always go to the grocery.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
I stay in the grocery store on Sunday. I went
twice on one day. I was there the day before
and the day before that. And I was on the
phone as I was approaching the checkout line, and I
said to my friend, I'm like, I need to check
out at the store. Yeah, I'm here all the time.
I get off with her, and then the cashier was like,
who wrung me up earlier in the day, like hours before.
He was like, I'm here all the time. To shit,
(14:03):
I was like, we.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Should switch places. I should get paid to be here.
I'd just be up here, Like what else do I want?
What else in this moment?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
In this moment, and because the grocery store is too close.
But what I was gonna say about the coffee thing,
right is that I bought an espresso machine from my
guests for my house guests, because all my house guests,
everybody drinks coffee. So I'm like, I don't I don't
know how to make I think I learned how to
make it this in December. I think I know how
to do a single cup. I don't know how to
do the machine in the pot. But for the espresso, no, no,
(14:36):
an espresso a regular like a regular call coffee maker,
I don't know. But I got an espresso Black Friday sale.
It was from Target, but it was also like fifteen
years no, ten years ago, ten years ago. But got
an espresso, and no one wanted to drink. No one
liked it. So I'm surprised you liked an espresso. Everyone
(14:57):
was like, I can get this was honest. I'm gonna
say more like eight of years ago.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, espresso is luxury, honey. Okay, espresso will make you
a luxury cup. Okay of coffee. You press that button,
it's like somebody is at the coffee place doing the
things that the little foam comes out on.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Top of it a little bit.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Okay, it's rich, it's dark, it's flavorful.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Get new friends, it's good.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
They like that. Swell. They like that. Brought her down
swell the real themselves. I got, like you like that one.
They probably like it now?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, okay, because I was, I thought I had done
something good with my Black frid.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
You did do something, thank you, and I will come over,
come over and have some of that.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I got rid of it.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I got rid of I was like, nobody's gonna drink it.
I don't drink so and now I have a whole
macha setup I've been most excited about.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Like, yeah, I'm very excited. I have an electric kettle.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I was doing old school kettle up until like a
month and a half ago. I decided to come to
twenty twenty six with.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
The tea very Nigerian, you know what I'm talking about?
And I do know.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I'm black, so oh black American, We're very similar.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Oh we are. I mean, listen, I was packing.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I was packing somewhere to go somewhere, and I had
a friend over and I had a bunch of suitcases.
And this is in a New York City apartment, but
I had them like tucked away in all kinds of
places and they were big ass suitcases. And my friend
looked at me and said, and you just might be Nigerian.
I am, I am, I am.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
You know what gorgeous face to prove it? Oh?
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Really?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Really, I have to ask you, I'm supposed to ask
you this so early. Who or what do you want
to say thanks to?
Speaker 3 (17:08):
I want to say thanks to God in the universe,
whatever one believes in or doesn't.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Believe in, for.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Sparing my life and giving me more time to do
what I was put on this earth.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
To do.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
You know, so many of us who are called, and
I believe that being an artist is a calling. I
came from the church, so I add ministry. This is
my ministry.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
You know.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I have watched so many of my heroes, you know,
really burnt out so early. And because it's a lot,
and I'm grateful, excuse me cut that out.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
But you know what, this is an imperfect podcast.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Perfect belching.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Everyone says, Okay, we leave the coughs and the clearings
of throat, my guys, this is real life over here.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
You know, like I said, I've I've watched so many
of my heroes.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Burnout so early. Mhmm, and way before.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
I believed that they should have been finished.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I also lived through the age crisis. I'm fifty six
years old. You know.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I came out in nineteen eighty five and we went
straight to the front lines to fight for our lives.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
I've had a lot of loss.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
In my life at very early ages, and I am
so grateful.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
To be alive. And that is my diabetes monitor.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
That's your diabetes mind.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
On this imperfect part.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
It's an imperfect podcast.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
So what does it do? You bring me my purse? Please?
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Bring Billy so I could turn your phone off. Let'snia okay,
and that's your not done, and then we'll keep that.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
We'll keep that.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Me giveing editing notes now so that I don't have to.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Do that later. Y'all don't have to call me when
you're editing. We don't have to cut that all out.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Just could have trim the moment down it it seem
like it was a quickie. Yeah, okay, but please continue.
Do you remember where you were?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
So I'm grateful that.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I have more time. I'm grateful for this last year
that has been so challenging, and I've been working on
the effects of it right now in terms of.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
How much breaking down of my ego that I still
have to deal with.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
You know, I'm always on my self help my you know,
I'm always trying to make myself better spiritually and emotionally.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
And you know, I never felt my age until now.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Where you feel like, oh, I'm fifty six.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
For real, I'm fifty six.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
You know, my whole brand is how fabulous I am
and how elegant I.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Am and all of those things.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
And one of those very specific things is that you know,
every so often I'll put on a pump, a heel,
a Rick Owens eight inch eight and a half inch
platform boot, and I can't do that right now.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
And to be faced with, ooh.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Okay, I'm good and everything I'm feeling right now doesn't
have anything to do with my nothing to do with
anything but my ego.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
This is the next level of me breaking.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
That down so that I can continue to be the
vessel that I'm supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yes, And it's beautiful that you recognize that that that's
what the process is right now, and that's beautiful to wreck.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Thank you. I'm I'm I'm about to do.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Lakajha Foe for Encores at City Center this June during
Pride Month, and that musical I realize I've been doing
some work on it. I'm like, oh, you know, he's aging.
He's an aging drag queen.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
He's not Lola from Kinky Boots.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
He's not in his prime. Like there's space for that too,
you know what I mean. And I've had to go, oh, wow, okay, okay,
(22:51):
this is where I am.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
And it's great. It's actually great. You know.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
I was, I was, I was going, what a why
am I playing another drag queen? I don't know that,
and I was not excited about it for a while.
I was doing it because it's a dream role for
me that I've had since I was younger, you know,
back when they weren't casting black people in any of
these kinds of classic pieces. And so once again I'm getting,
(23:24):
you know, from Cabaret to this to you know, I've
had several moments where I've been able to realize these.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Dreams. But I was like, drag queen, what am I?
Speaker 3 (23:37):
And then I went and did a vocal session to
try to figure out what keys I'm gonna sing everything,
and and the first line of my first song is.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Once again.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
I'm a little depressed at the tired old face that
I see. M m hmm. It's like, ooh, this is
what I'm going through right now. This couldn't be more
(24:11):
perfect right now, It couldn't be more perfect for me
from my healing, from my journey.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
But also.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
To the world right now. This is a different billy
from what you've been used to. This is different.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Aside from older how is this billy different?
Speaker 5 (24:44):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (24:45):
You asked the good questions.
Speaker 6 (24:48):
Go.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I feel like I'm even more present.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
And I've always been, but I'm even more present now,
and I feel like the fight for it's not attention.
I get attention, it's not attention. What is the word
(25:20):
I'm looking for?
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Is it adoration?
Speaker 2 (25:22):
No, it's not adoration. The fight for.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Respect, the fight to not be pigeonholed, you know, the
fight to try to wrestle people into understanding that I'm
a very serious person and fabulous and serious coexists. That
(25:53):
fight that I have, that's gone.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I'm not fighting. I'm not fighting no more.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Why Yeah, like that? That sounds exhausting, Yes, right, So
is that why you're done with that?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah? Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
I just don't have the energy. I mean literally physically,
I do not have the energy to fight any of
that anymore.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I Am what I Am.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
That's the main song from from Lukasha Foe. That song
comes from Lukasha Foe, and I get to sing it.
I am what I am. I am my own special creation.
Do with that what you will. But I'm not fighting.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Y'all know more about it. You know.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
I'm not making you know, I'm not defending myself for
anything anymore, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
And my my mantra.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
On the social media's the information super Highway. I like
to say, because I'm old enough to remember what it was.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Called that superb that I'm not that all.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Okay, So when we started, when all of this mess started,
it was called the information super Highway, So I like
to throw that in. You know, sometimes said you.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Old bitch, do you remember, because I know black go correct?
But I see you. I promise you no, I believe it.
I believe it. But when I.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
It's like my mantra is, I do not now, nor
will I ever adjudicate my life or humanity in sound
bites on social media, and I will forever be that
person now reality speaking, social media, the internet has taken
(28:04):
over everything so much, to the point in such a
toxic way that like, if somebody says something about you
and you don't have any response to it, then your
narrative lands in the hands of somebody else.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Oh yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
So how do we You know, I've been really working
on how do I do that?
Speaker 1 (28:38):
I joined substack so you get to tell your own
story on substack.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Because substack is long form, and I'm long form. I'm
verboth I write, I talk, you know, and it's like
it's not about me defending myself because that's not the goal.
I'm not defending myself about anything, but to be able
to just.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Be in a place that has not yet turned toxic.
I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
It's that's the that's the very appealing part of substack.
There's so much social media, but I'm like, it feels
pure over here.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Well, it feels adult. I call it the maturing of
social media because the ratchet trash ain't over there because
they're not smart enough to be.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
You know, It's like Don Lemon got fired from CNN
and he went there. Yeah, Joy Reid got fired from MSNBC.
She went over there.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
All the and many, if not all, of the independent
journalists who are being released for telling the truth and
speaking truth to power and holding people accountable who are
being fired for.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
That right now, are going over there.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
You can poss you can essay, you can do your
television show.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Don limit does this television show every day.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
I think it's twice a day. I think he does
something at ten and something at five. Joy Reid has
a Joy Reid show.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Shoe.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
I watched that shit yesterday. It was two hours and
seventeen minutes, and I was like, yes, and so I'm
just beginning the process. I've only posted two essays, but
like it feels like a space that has given me
(30:33):
breath back. Because the Internet suffocates me.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
I don't like it at all.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
And the only reason why I'm there is because I'm
in show at all. Is because I'm in show business,
and that is a tool that is still necessary for me.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
You know, I'm not I don't have fuck you money.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Awards do not pay the bills.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I need to get jobs.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
I got all the awards in the world, and I
love them all and I'm grateful for all of them.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
They do not pay the bills. And as artists, I
try to explain to people we are freelance.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Every time a job ends, we have to go out
and get another one. Nobody lives their life like that,
but artists, you know. And so for my sanity, I
am grateful to Substack. Now, I just gotta build. I
gotta build my little audience because you know, yeah, well.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Listen, Billy's on substacks.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
So Billy's on substack, and I'm telling the truth, honey,
you know, you know I tell the truth.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I call people out my.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Name, you know, I'm at the I will give I
call people by name yes, not always.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I give enough information to people can figure.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
It out this and then if something doesn't change, then
I start calling out names like.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Now, Marjorie Taylor Green, you are not a fucking hero.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I'm not gonna argue against periods, all of these people
who are now coming out at the end of the earth.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
When you people sat and watched this happen. Why because
it was never gonna affect you.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yet it was never going to affect you.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Whatever you did, and whatever he did was never going
to affect you.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
It still doesn't affect you. I don't want to hear
nothing from any of those people. It's lovely.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
I went with Jane Fonda, you know, okay, so here
I said in the hospital room, I'm off the front lines.
I was there for a month, you know, because I've
been on the front line time sixteen. I'm off the
front line. I'm not doing the front lines anymore. You know.
I'm gonna be a consultant. I'm not gonna be on
the front lines no more. That lasted for about two
(33:11):
and a half minutes, and then Jane Fonda called me.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
I did the football movie with her. Was eighty for Brady.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
I did eighty for Brady for and she knows that
I'm like, you know, political and stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
So she called me to do this thing down at the.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
UH in front of the Kennedy Center for the Committee
for the First Amendment. You know, I was like, Okay,
I'll go do that. Then reven Al called me to
give me the President's Award at NAN last week, the
National Action Network last week, you know, because I'm black
(33:49):
and I'm gay and I'm out and that's still a thing,
you know.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
And I love.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Revenue Al for understanding that nobody's free unless we're all free.
I don't care what you believe. I don't care what
your doctrines, your Black church doctrine say. That isn't even
our religion. It's not even ours. It's our colonizers.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
You know. I don't. And so he called.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
And I may have you know what, I wrote a
really nice I'm not on the front line speech.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Okay, but I'm here, by the way.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
No, but like I'm not. I didn't say I wasn't
on the front lines. But it wasn't like.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
It was like, thank you, I'm so grateful, God, bless y'all.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
All.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, we have work to do
and then.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Easter Sunday happened, and that bitch said he was going
to destroy a civilization. And I said, oh yeah, and
and I.
Speaker 7 (35:01):
Rewrote my speech and I got up there and I
was like, I'm just gonna say the speech.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
But you know, there's a calling on my life, and
this is my ministry. And while I don't stand in
the poolpit every week to preach traditionally, there is.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
A bishop in me. There is a bishop. And miss
Queen Honey.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
And baby I got up and I don't know what happened.
I do know what happened, and all of a sudden,
it was like everybody just started.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
It was like we were at church.
Speaker 8 (35:54):
If Al Sharpton was standing behind me, like, he said,
I think I'm gonna need you to go preaching some
in some church.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
He said, get to actual church. Bishop.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
I said, I.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Cussed too much, but I'll take the cussing out. I'll
I'll take the cussing out.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
You would, I'll take some of the cussing out. Which
words would you allow? I would allow, damn it, Okay,
I would allow. Get your ship together, get you but
it can only come in that package. You can't be on.
It can't stand on its own. No, okay, well it could.
You know.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
The one thing that I did take out, okay, was motherfucker,
you took that out.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I took it out. I said, ms.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Okay, I said, lock these m f's out.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Phraise music played because.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
If there was, if there was a gospel group there,
and I don't know why he didn't get on the
keyboard and key up, because I was.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Keyed up, fuddy. You can see it.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I'm posted on a substat Okay, all twenty two minutes
of it.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Okay, I didn't get the four minute memo, but you
have four minutes. Don't give Billy a mic.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Don't give Billy and.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Not tell him it's four minutes before the day before.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Yeah, you need that information well in advance the day before.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
They were like, oh and they should be no more
than four minutes.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
I said, okay, we also let me tell you this.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yeah, okay, okay, you get four times up five and
you get four times five point five. Okay, But but
I have to say, people, they want to hear you,
they want to hear you and listen four minutes. The
reality is, if you had prepared four minutes anyway, you
(37:48):
pivoted based on what the news was doing, and it
was going to be twenty two minutes.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
I needed to say what I needed to say.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
And the thing that's so surprising to me right now,
being first generation post civil rights movement, is how many
people are afraid to speak. You're saying everything everybody wants
to say, then why are you not saying it?
Speaker 1 (38:13):
I think people are not just losing things, losing opportunities.
But it's interesting because you're going to lose them anyway anyway.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Because they're coming from my black faggot ass.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Whether I speak now or not, I'm in that position already,
so there's no reason. And I use the word. I
use the F word as a recogno. It's not on
the pool bit. I use that word as a reclamation
of the words of my oppressors. Sure, just like black
(38:46):
people use the N word.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Na. You know what I mean? It's like, what are we?
Who are we pretending for now? Who were we being
politically correct for now? I'm out of that.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, miss me with that age, because you are in
your I don't give a fuck.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Era you are.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
It helps, it helps, doesn't it help? To be fifty
six real with me?
Speaker 2 (39:21):
It does?
Speaker 1 (39:22):
It does, And to almost die.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
And to almost die it helps. I mean I was
dead for three days. Technically, did you see Jesus? I
did not?
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Thank you for it, and thank you for asking that question.
I didn't see anything, nothing. It was completely black, and
that leads me to know my time ain't done yet.
I didn't see mom, I didn't see Grandma. I didn't
see a tunnel. I didn't see no lights. I didn't
have no negotiations with spirits.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
I didn't have nothing. I was black.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
And then I woke up three days later and thought
I was in Michanos.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Where we're you at Bellevue.
Speaker 6 (40:03):
They is not making those not even close, not even close,
not even I need one more thing from my bag,
which is my fan.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Okay, because now podcast Billy, can we get Billy's fan?
You're getting hot toasting.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
I am having my men o pause moment, men o pause,
men oh, men have it to you.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Guys get hot with age. I know you get more
attractive with age.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Thank you, not just you.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
But I know I believe it because I am just a.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Little bit of pre just a little bit of promotion.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Billy black Mona Lisa Billy Porter is black Mona Lisa
as well.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
I thought the fan might say, Billy Porter is on Substack,
because I thought you were just here to promote Substack.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
So I'm here to promote my book. Okay, oh ship, yes,
you forgot all about it?
Speaker 5 (41:00):
Because Songbird in the Light, please, Songbird in the Light.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Do you even have one? No? I don't. Why didn't
I thought they would have brought you one? Could you
sign it? Of course you don't have an image.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
You can put that in later. You can super improse
the image on our heart.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
We'll put it. We'll put it like right on your chest.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
Yeah, put it on my chest or one of them
little pop ups that the kids do that. I don't
know how to do now on you know how to
do that on the Instagram. I don't know how to
do it. I see these things. I'm like, I don't
know how to do.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
So the person listening that sound you here is Billy's fair.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
I know it's going to wear the sec who but
I'm sweating from.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
The inside parts inside remember that it's but by the way,
it's hot today.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
It's hot today, it's hot. You know what the inside
part is? Where that comes from?
Speaker 2 (41:55):
The kucie? What's the kuccie? Oh? Well, yes, but do
you know where that line came?
Speaker 1 (42:02):
No, no, no, tell me beloved, beloved Tony Morrison's beloved
the movie, the movie, because I read the book the movie,
but it is the Cuci, right see, I didn't know why.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Did I whisper? Like anyway? The Coucci? Billy?
Speaker 3 (42:28):
Shall we pivot to the children's book where you want
to talk some more about some other shit.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
I don't really have to know about the book except
for that people need to get it unless you want
to say something.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Okay, here's the thing. Yes, I want to say one thing.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yes, So there is a memoir came out twenty twenty one,
Billy Porter Unprotected came out during COVID.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
A lot of people don't know about it.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
And in that one, oh names, Okay.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
I name a couple of I name a couple of names.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
And I've run into the people whose names I've named,
and I know they haven't read.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
The bookcase it's sweet.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
It's because they still talk to me. I'm fair.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
But so that book, I want to package it together
to remind people that there's a memoir.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
And then this is like.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
It's kind of memoir based as well. It's called Songbird
in the light and it's about a little boy who
finds his voice through singing, and it's based on my life.
The original title was rockhead Bill because that's what they
(43:43):
called me because my head grew larger than my body
between the ages of like.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Eight and eleven. My head looked like this, like it was.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
You know, the nicknames when we were children, they're so cruel, horrible.
My family used to call me, which means bone skeleton,
because I was tired. As you were thinking, but she
doesn't eat, and I'm like, I do, I do eat.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
This is just the size of my body. You're right,
So they called me rockhead bill.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
So interestingly enough, ironically enough, I think I'm using that
word right. I wrote my whole memoir, two hundred and
eighty plus pages of it, on my own, and you know,
I had help coaching, you know, and mentorship, but I
wrote it on my own.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
I come to write this children's book, and I.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Tried three times, and my publisher was like, it's called
rockhead Bill. The inciting incident is the fact that the
kids threw rocks at my head. Turns out that might
be a little violent for children from the ages of
four to eight.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Look at me I didn't even catch it. I'm like, yeah, okay,
right right.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Because that's what happened. They're like, oh, it's a little violent.
Speaker 5 (44:57):
I was like, that's what they did. Actually through eight
years old day threw rocks in my head. What are
y'all talking about?
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Romanticize those children? We're not gonna do. You don't romanticize
the bully.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
I do not romanticize those bullies.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Oh yeah, I'm like, then it's okay to call it
what it was.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
So we got Chris Clarkson and Charlie Palmer. I've never
met them in person, which is hard, and I'm gonna
throw I'm gonna take them to dinner.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Saying because we don't do this at my show, but
this team here wet. We're not a visiting studio. They
said we could pull it up for you.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Come on team.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
So one of the things that I was really I'm so,
you know. So I met with Chris Clarkson, who is
a children's book writer, and I told him the story
about me finding my voice, being bullied, finding my voice,
and the reality is in fifth grade when I signed
up for the Talent show and won, the bullying.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Stopped because they said he's a star. Yes, I might
need Billy someday.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
And so that was really that was an interesting thing.
Charlie Parker.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
Uh Palmer, Charlie Palmer, the.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
The visuals, the illustrations.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
I was really interested in aspirational art for kids.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
I didn't want it to be kitty art. No shade.
I don't mean any shade by that.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
But what I my goal was, I want to create
this book so that whoever it speaks to as a
child will keep it with them and put it on
that coffee table when they're an adult, next to.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Their adult coffee table. Yes, because it's art.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
It's beautiful. Thank you, I'm taken by. I'm so distracted.
You have to put the thanks dad by a go
back up because I'm up close and I can see
the details.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Of the art. The art is beautiful.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
It's stunning. Chris an actual artist though.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah, Like so it's not just painted. Do you have
any pieces from him?
Speaker 3 (47:06):
Now, I'm like, I don't I have Get that book.
Get the book you have like twenty four pieces?
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Songbird in the Light.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Songbird in the Light, Darling, Get it to all your children, okay,
and the adults, because y'all could learn something from that book.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Absolutely, the babies will teach us. Yes, it was written
by you and your co writer.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, but he was he really distilled
rockhead Bill into songbird.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yes, he's They came back, they said, okay, so rockhead
Bill maybe maybe stead of rockhead it's a songbird.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
I was trying to be funny.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Yeah, but you know I wasn't on you know, I
wasn't a regular and l yet.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
So what I could have sworn together Monday pitch writing,
our schedules and.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
You know, I'm trying to do comedy now.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
You want to do comedy now? Like stand up?
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Stand up? Have you gone? Because it scares.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Me?
Speaker 1 (48:10):
I think you would be good at it. I'm not
even an expert, but I'm like.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
Everybody, all my stand up people who I talked to,
They're like, you're already a stand up. You just need
to get up and do it. And it terrifies me.
And there's very little that like terrifies me anymore. And
so I'm doing a podcast with Phoebe Robinson and who
(48:35):
did I say, Leslie Jones soon and I was talking
to them about it and they were like, well, we'll
help you, you know, we'll you know, everybody's like, you
just have to get up and do it.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
You know, you don't need to write it.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
Just pick a theme, get up and just start talking
and you'll be surprised.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
So I'm getting there.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Do you think, are you scared of bombing?
Speaker 2 (49:01):
No?
Speaker 1 (49:02):
No, oh, well then you're billy. You're gonna be fine.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Like, I'm not scared of bombing. I don't want to bomb,
of course, but everybody's gonna bomb.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
But if you're not scared of it.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
I'm not scared of bombing. My whole life has been
a series of bombs. That's where the that's where the
the mastery comes from. That's you know, I'm not scared
of bombing.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Oh good, Okay, Now you said something about it being
good here. Now that that's sort of how you're considering
this new space, this new chapter you're in because it's
good here. Now, what's good about it?
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Good?
Speaker 3 (49:41):
You mean for me personally, it's good and it's challenging.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (49:50):
I always find that the challenges are the greatest space
for me. The fear is the greatest space for me.
The loss is the great space for me, The failure
is the greatest space for me because that's where I
learn the most.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
And so once again I'm in another learning space.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
You know, I smashed through a glass ceiling that was concrete.
I was never supposed to on paper rise to the
heights and be elevated to the sort of a list
(50:41):
wild success space that I did that I have, And
now that I'm there, I have realized, oh, so many
people then spend their lives trying to stay there, and
that that's where.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
I'm finding the fractures happen. I'm learning.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Yet another version of an ebb and flow, another version
of impermanent. Nothing is permanent and you can't hold on
to any of it because the holding on to it
is where the suffering happens. And so even in the
(51:33):
uncomfortable that I feel right now, and I am very
very uncomfortable now right now, I'm also very inspired at
the same time for whatever.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
Comes next. I have a production company.
Speaker 3 (51:52):
I've had it for three years, you know, four years
actually three are going on four years. I had a
deal at FAC the strikes came, all of that stuff
went away, all of it seems to have whatever, And
It's like, but I have so much to focus on
(52:12):
right now that is about me and about the stories
that I want to tell. I want to be the
head bitch in charge. I'm more interested in creating the
stories and filling the gaps of the stories that I
don't see from the people that I don't see it from,
(52:34):
from the marginalized.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
Folks like myself.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
I went to see Cat's Agelical Ball the other night, and.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
I couldn't stop crying.
Speaker 3 (52:49):
I just I mean, I got here in the late
eighties early nineties, there was nothing like that for me
to do.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
I graduated from Carnegie.
Speaker 3 (52:58):
Mellon, I studied classical theater, and all I could do
was be in a musical review when I graduated, or
be or have some or be some thug on a
guest spot on a television show. You know, like there
was nothing they weren't casting people in. In less, they
(53:20):
weren't casting people in in Uh, Phantom of the Opera
and things of that nature. My first Broadway show was
was Uh Miss Sagon, and that was a gift. And Cats,
being a show that was from my generation, was one
of the only spaces where they were casting any kinds
(53:42):
of people of color. So there's a special place in
my heart for that very special show that didn't age.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Well until now, Divas.
Speaker 3 (53:57):
It is one of the greatest pieces of art that
I have seen in a really, really long time.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
And to have those people.
Speaker 3 (54:09):
On that stage from the ballroom community melded with the
you know, the more traditional theater people, and to I just.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (54:22):
And to know that I'm a part of that, To
know that I'm a part of the generation that held
the gatekeeper's feet to the fire and said no, you
will see.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
Us, you will see us, is just magical. To me.
It really is just lovely.
Speaker 3 (54:44):
It really really is lovely, and so I want to
continue to do that.
Speaker 2 (54:49):
It's not just about me. You know, I've had it,
I got it all. I have it.
Speaker 3 (54:56):
I have all the things that I've ever dreamed of
and more. You know, I've already done it. Anytime I
have like that, you know, when we all have that
twin je oh I want to it's like, oh wait,
I already did it.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
Yeah yeah, I already did that. It's special.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
Yeah, it is special. It's cool because it's all part
of your I feel like, part of your legacy. Yeah right, yeah,
part of your legacy. And you said though that you've
done it all, You've done it all. Of it, most all,
most all, We're gonna get you that.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
Oh yeah, And I want my you know, I want
my television show that I write and direct and create
and start in. I want my films. I want my
you know plays, I want my musicals. I wrote a
musical with Kirk Carr, gospel recording artist Kirk Carr. You
(55:55):
know that I'm pushing up that hill like Sisyphis. You know,
I have lots of projects and that in the conference
that I've been.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
Working on for years. You know, Yeah, now is the
time to get that done.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
So what's making you uncomfortable?
Speaker 2 (56:09):
Now?
Speaker 1 (56:09):
What's you feel very uncomfortable? What's so uncomfortable?
Speaker 2 (56:15):
A go, Billy, Well, we gotta go on sub sect
to get the real. So you're not gonna tell me
or what's making me uncomfortable?
Speaker 1 (56:32):
The most uncomfortable?
Speaker 3 (56:35):
Well, I'll go from Howard where the uncomfortable started, COVID
into two strikes, into a really messy, nasty divorce for
three years that just got over about two months ago.
(56:56):
Finally where he got every all every cent I ever
worked for in my life, no legally, And people ask me,
how is that possible? How is it possible that orange
Gina is in office for the second time. Ask yourself
(57:19):
that and then you'll understand why our legal system is trash.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
Period. No.
Speaker 3 (57:28):
I he was before anything, so I didn't even know
what that.
Speaker 1 (57:31):
Was your like prena for one, I didn't know what
that was.
Speaker 5 (57:36):
Great, yes, but I didn't know what we've just got.
We just got the right to get married, like I didn't.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it never even crossed my mind.
Speaker 2 (57:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:47):
And presumably when you're getting married, you're like, this is
my person, right, And.
Speaker 3 (57:51):
I will say that Ryan Murphy God bless him, met
him and said, you need to get a post Oh,
and I didn't.
Speaker 2 (58:02):
You didn't do it because he saw it.
Speaker 1 (58:04):
How many years before it was time to get divorced?
Did Ryan call that? Four? Oh?
Speaker 2 (58:12):
You had?
Speaker 1 (58:13):
He told you four years in advance.
Speaker 2 (58:15):
He met him one time and said you need a
post nut Ryan b knowing, and then my mom died.
That's really uncomfortable. Yeah, that's really hard.
Speaker 3 (58:36):
You know.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
It's me and my sister and my mother was.
Speaker 3 (58:42):
A very religious Pentecostal woman, Church of God in Christ.
Speaker 1 (58:46):
Child kojak, kojak, that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (58:50):
Saying it wrong.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
But I know the ceog I.
Speaker 3 (58:54):
Kojak, and when I came out to her as gay
in the eighties, she didn't have a good response.
Speaker 2 (59:04):
She loved me, she didn't kick me out. She did
I didn't get that, but she was afraid from my soul,
Oh you're going to hell, the same old And she
went from that all the way to a choosing me.
Speaker 3 (59:29):
And choosing the LGBTQ plus community.
Speaker 2 (59:34):
In Jesus' name through love, and.
Speaker 3 (59:41):
Told my sister and I on her deathbed to stand
up in front of her casket and hold the people
who the church, people who were her community for a
long time, and who were the traumatizers of our family,
hold them accountable and tell them the truth because they
(01:00:04):
are wrong. I mean, it's so beautiful and I miss
her so much, and then sepsis. You know, I've never
felt my age until right now. My whole body is
(01:00:24):
what I use from my work, and there's a part
of it that I can't use right now fully coming back.
Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
They don't know if it's going to be one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
I can tell you right now it's about eighty five
ninety percent. The compartment syndrome destroyed all of the nerves
in my foot. They're coming back. They're coming back, but
I'll see, you know, a performance you know, of me
(01:01:07):
in kinky boots or a performance of me and something.
And I'm you know, it's uncomfortable to know that I
can't do that right now.
Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
Yeah, and I don't know if I'll ever be able
to do that.
Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
That's an uncomfortable place because that was my superpower. And
to feel like you've lost your superpower is uncomfortable. Like
I said, to feel like you've lost your superpower is uncomfortable.
Feelings are not always facts, and so I'm working myself
(01:01:45):
through that right now.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
And it's uncomfortable in a good way.
Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
Like I said, it's uncomfortable in a good way because
whatever whatever grows from this, I've been planting these seeds
my whole life. I plant seeds all the time. I
never stopped I never stopped dreaming, I never stopped growing,
(01:02:13):
I never stopped expanding, and I never stopped holding myself accountable.
Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
You know.
Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
Right now, I'm like, oh, this is my ego that
I thought I had dealt with. And the ego is tricky.
Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
You know. I did that Mariah Carey thing, right I
love talking to you. I did that, and I'm like.
Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
So my first event back was the Grammys and I
was called to do a tribute to Mariah Carey for
the Music Cares.
Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
They do it every year, and a few years ago
I did it for uh this, My brain is still foggy.
Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
I didn't even have substance in my brain.
Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Is my brain?
Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
I sang both sides now, Jonny Mitchell, and so they
called me back to do this.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
And you know, my fashion is my armor.
Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
My fashion is my weapon, My fashion is my politics.
My fashion.
Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Is my superpower.
Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
And it's based on a very specific thing, very specific things,
non binary de gendering of fashion. I wear what the
fuck I want, right, and when I'm doing the non
binary thing and leaning into the feminine part of it,
of of of me, the silwet is this. And then
(01:04:04):
this the train right when I'm in eight and a
half inch.
Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Rick Owens platform pumps, it makes me about six to two.
So that train catches the wind and just lays behind
me like it should.
Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
I saw myself singing always Be My Baby, and I
remember I kept stepping on my train. I was like,
am I stepping on this train?
Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
And I looked at me. When I finally looked at it,
I was like, oh my god, I'm in flats. It's
not catching the air, it's bunching up under me. I
look like the clothes are wearing me. That's never happened
to me before. I like, it was like, that's only me.
(01:05:07):
Nobody else noticed it. And it's my ego. That's my ego.
I get what it is, you know. And it's like,
oh my god, I'm about to do play a drag
queen in a Broadway show and I'm gonna have to
put on a kitten heill like Michelle Obama.
Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
Let me say, I used to talk about kitten hills,
but I love a kitten hill.
Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Now I'm sorry. I know you might just have.
Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
To get used to k I used to talk so
much shit about a kid wear a flat or wear
a heel, but not a kitten. And now I got
like three pairs of kitten heels.
Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
I'm gonna have to go to product and get them kidneys. Yeah,
they're kind of cute. They are cute, and it's still
a heel.
Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
It's still a heel, and it's still elegant. And if
it's an inch, it's a heel. I mean, oh, go
to You're gonna go to I'm gonna go to I
can do two okay, Okay, be careful, I.
Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
Know, but like that part, like the image part, like
just really going Okay, it's okay. I am exactly where
I'm supposed to be. There's growth in this and I
feel it happening all at once.
Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
Yeah, well, Billy, it's time for a segment. I call
that's nice. But what about me?
Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
So that was cute or whatever.
Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
Okay, so that was cute or whatever, but we're gonna
talk about me now. No, I want to take the
segment to say thank you so much for sharing yourself
with me today, of course listeners, for your vulnerability, for
your honesty. I am so inspired by the way you're
(01:07:05):
choosing to live, especially now after having been in the
hospital and been dead for three days.
Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
Yes, and for those of you who want to talk
shit on my comments talking about I'm being extra and
not dead, look it up.
Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
He was dead dead and I just had to say that.
I just had to say that.
Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
You know, because it's not on a SoundBite on social media.
Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Yes, it's on real press.
Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, said, let me say it here.
Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
You motherfucker's telling me what I went through.
Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
And he said, motherfucker is not a mefirst No, because
we're not the church.
Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Telling me what I what I went through?
Speaker 6 (01:07:46):
How very dare you see?
Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
I haven't sense of humor too? You do?
Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
But you know what the thing is, I do want
to ask you this about defending a quick give me
like your your fastest way to be like, I won't
be defending myself against trolls. Because you still felt the
need to say something here and I resonate with that
where you're like, I need to let you know, why
are you speaking on my situation. Come to the come
to the mike right right right, say what is like
(01:08:14):
a good piece of advice because I think a lot
of people fall into that.
Speaker 3 (01:08:17):
Well for me, I'm not doing it here. Okay, I'm
not doing it here. Okay, I will address it here,
and I'll address it.
Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
Right here on the podcast on Thanks Dad with Ago Wodem. Yes,
and you have been Billy Porter.
Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
This is real, So y'all can hear the whole thing.
You can? Yes, I'm extra and why are you not?
And you're not a enough all of the things. I'm
extra and you're not all of the things.
Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
Yeah, I will you know what I mean like it's like, yeah,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
I do know. That's what I'm here.
Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
I have to have you back on the Please you
have to do a part too, please, I want to
I want.
Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
To check in.
Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
Yeah, okay, all right, Billy, I love you to do
that was that? Was it? Because I wanted to just
ask how you handled the trolls handled Yeah, that's.
Speaker 3 (01:09:10):
Yes, Yes, that's how I handled the trolls. I handled
the trolls.
Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
On by living Okay, okay, okay, I keep living and
I keep thriving.
Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
And you do, yeah, and you really do. Yeah, Billy,
I'm so glad you're alive. Thank you for coming you
delight and okay, that was my talk with Billy Porter.
How inspiring. I feel so inspired. And I was right,
(01:09:44):
it's the kuchie. It's usually the kuchie. If you want
advice from me and my next guest, you could have
had advice from Billy Porter. If someone had called and
told us some tea, you could have gotten advice from
me and Billy Porter. And I think Billy would have
given good advice.
Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
I just get this.
Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
But anyway, if you want advice, call five zero two
eight four nine three two three seven five zero two
eight four nine three two three seven five zero two.
Thanks THHX Dads, What a beautiful day, What a beautiful day.
Please tune in next time. I love you, next time.
Bye bye.
Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Thanks Dad.
Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
Is a production of Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and
iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host Aego wodem Our producer is
Kevin Bartelt and our executive producer is Matt Appadaka
Yeah, and she lost her mind and then she went crazy.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Okay, wait I should introduce.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
You, Yes, introduce me what you need I need to do?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Okay. My next guest is Emmy Grammy and Tony Award
winner Okay, and their next book, Songbird in the Light,
is out right now. It's Billy Porter. Hi, Hello, how
are you. I'm fabulous. I'm so happy to be here
with you.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I'm so happy you're here. I've been such a fan
for a really long time. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Likewise, truly, truly and honestly just reading the bio when
I said we need the.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
O, Yes, we do need the Oh, let's get the O.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
It's no rush, right, No, I'm not rushing.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Yeah, after after the last year of my life, I'm
not rushing about anything anymore.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
What happened in the last year.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
So I had sepsis last year.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I don't know if you know that. I did not
know that I had sepsis last year.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
In August started with a urinary infection in England when
I was starting as the MC making my West End
debut in Cabaret, Okay, Candor and Ebbs Cabaret, and then.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
You know, I got a urinary infection.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
And you know, I love London and their medication is trash.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Listen about getting medicine in Europe, but you can't get anything.
I got burnt on the forehead by a hairstylist in September,
and I was like, I need some neosporing so they
don't star if we don't have that. You need a
prescription for neospor and of course, like whatever the equivalent is,
and they're like, no, because it has an antibiotic in it,
you need perscription.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
I'm like for neosporin, right, and so so ten weeks
and four rounds of week ass ANIMI later it was
a kidney infection with kidney stones.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
This is April then and only then did they give.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Me the strongest stuff that they had at the time. Yeah,
and it seemed to have gone away. Fast forward to August.
I'm doing Cabaret here. I'm in my fourth week. Maricha
Wallace and I three black people in the leads of
this musical that has never had black people telling, you know,
(02:34):
our version of the Holocaust story because we were there too,
and it was you know, I was really I felt
really like in my purpose and in the kidney stone
pain came back and turns out the kidney stone was
stuck at my urethra. There was so much old backed
(02:54):
up bile and infection that had not been dealt with
that when they put the stint in to do the
routines procedure to like redirect the urine and blasphemy with American.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Animals, okay, to get it gone.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah, it bubbled up and went into my bloodstream. Oh,
and I went euro sceptic. I was on Echmo for
three days. I checked myself in onto Tuesday night. I
woke up on a Saturday night compartment syndrome in my
leg where the muscles sort of you know, turning on
(03:31):
themselves and cut off the circulation. They had to give
me a fasci art of me and cut me on
both sides of my calf and then from my knee
to my hip.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
It's been crazy. I'm still healing.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah, it's a slow process. I'm so grateful to be
alive and I'm slowly getting back on the horse.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I'm grateful you're here. I'm grateful you're alive. Crazy.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
It was really really crazy and something that makes you go, wow,
it's I never I've never thought about death a lot.
I grew up in the Pentecostal church.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
You know, we were exposed to death.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Death is going home, you know, homegoing going, blah blah whatever.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I was looking at caskets at five, open caskets at five,
Like I don't have a fear like that, Like I
have a relationship with Yeah, that's what.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
But I never thought about it.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
And the fact that I I think more now about
my mortality and what am I doing right now?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Then?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
You know, how am I showing up even more grounded
and more present than I've been before?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
You know? So I'm grateful to be here.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yeah, I'm so grateful. I ask you, what is so just?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (04:52):
The ECMO machine is essentially the new life support machine. Okay,
I was on life support all of my organs that
shut down.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Right for three days? It was crazy.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, So to be I am so grateful that you
are here. I'm grateful you're here with me now. And
you say you are so much more present and try
to be grounded when you enter a space. What kinds
of things do you do to ground yourself day to day?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Well, I'm a big fan of a book called The
Artist's Way.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I have it on my Shelf.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
By Julia Cameron. Take it off your shelf and do it. Okay,
I did it in two thousand. I did the business
version in twenty ten. I did it again last year.
There's one thing that I take from it all the time,
which are the morning pages. It's sort of very similar
to journaling. You're supposed to write three pages long hand
every day, stream of consciousness, no judgment on anything or anything.
(05:51):
I type them now because I've been doing it for
so long that my mind body connection is.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
And there as if I were writing. But that grounds me.
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
My mom passed a couple of years ago, and she
was Pentecostal, and the day we put her in the ground,
I became Buddhist.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Oh, because you said, Mommy's not here anymore, because.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Had I put her through enough, you know, being gay
and refusing to go in the closet and being who
you know they put her through. So, you know, Church
first put her through so much. I was like, I'm
not gonna put her through another thing.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, you said, I'm not going to tell her I'm
not Christian no more. I'm Buddhist.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I let her die before I became Buddhist.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
The day they literally they put her on the ground.
And my sister's best friend is a Buddhist, and I
was like, come here. And so I've been slowly trying to, like,
you know, figure.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Out what that is. And I really love the meditation.
I love I just love the tenets.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
It's just it's like we're just here to be present,
We're here to be available, the releasing of permanence, everything
being impermanent and releasing everything so you don't suffer. You know,
(07:22):
it's not what happens, it's our response to it that
causes us to suffer so greatly. And so I've been
trying to practice that a little bit more and not
suffer so much because we.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Do bring on a lot of our own suffering because
we want things to be different.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
We want things to be different as opposed to this
is what it is.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Let's be right where we are. You know.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
You see, I'm Christian, but I read a lot of Buddhists.
Well I'm Christian too, I'm a Christian Buddhists.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I'm Christian Buddhists.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, I read a lot of have you
read you are here?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Han? No, But I'm gonna get it. Okay, you get it.
I'll read the artist's way, get it off the shelf.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
I do morning pages, by the way you do, because
my therapist suggested it years ago. But I don't, you know,
I don't think she mentioned to me it was a
thing from.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
The artist way.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I think like years later I heard someone say it
was from the artist's way. But I do a page
stream of consciousness. But it's so fascinating because my I
can't write fast enough for how my brains. Yeah, my brain.
I'm like, well, I'm already onto the grocery list and
oh and oh what a beautiful light my morning page.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I think I have it. We are artists.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
We all have I'm over here diagnosing myself every day
with something new. It's really crazy.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Ipist about three months ago, maybe a bit more, I
was like, do you think I'm ADHD? And she did
a spit take. She just she had just taken some
drank some water and she did a spit take.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
It was like, Billy, do I think you're a d
h D?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
You are the poster child?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Like okay, okay, right, you know, I I just my
friend told me. She well, she let chat GPT diagnose
her recently, which.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Is we ain't doing chat GBT right now?
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Why are we not doing it?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I don't do it at all? But why, boy? Tell
me why?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Because they find ice Trump, we're boycotting them.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Okay, and that is good to know.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
You hear you heard they get off the phone. There
are other places.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
There ap for chat GPT. Yeah there's an app. What
year do I live in? No more chat GBT? Go
to other places until they get their stuff together. Can
we cuss on here?
Speaker 1 (09:44):
You can cuss, you could do it, so we get
that till they get that ship together. Okay, you heard
of you know what to do?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Get off of there.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
You say there's other places. I'm so behind. I'm not
still on Google.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Okay, me too, i google everything. I'm still on Google.
I'm on Google as well. There's for the moment, I mean, is.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Any very few places a part and that exactly Let's
be honest about that.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
And that's the hard part about now what does this
what does our activism look like in this new world order?
You know, when I think about the old days, the
Birmingham bus boycop was what eighteen months or something, not
one afternoon for no kings every four months, no shade. Okay,
(10:30):
but like we've become so our lives have become.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So convenient, our lives are very.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
That like, we don't even know what it's like to
get up and go to a store anymore.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
And then the.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Stores that are available, I was, I was doing this
the other day. The stores that are available, Well, where
do I get a step ladder?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Target, Walmart or Amazon like those of Its true, it's
like where do we eat? Where do we even begin
the process to try to extract ourselves from this billionaire
takeover culture.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
It's yeah, very difficult. It's challenging.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
And I thought you were going to mention when you
go to a store, because I'll go for like basic
toiletries to CBS and everything's locked up, and then I
gotta page the employee on.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
The machine a fever.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I know, but I'm like, but also, it's cheaper, labor
less people to have to be in lost prevention. And
so I'm pushing the button. I'm pushing the button, but
then so is everyone on every aisle and it's just
one man running around with a key. I feel very
bad for them, and I'm like, this is not I
just wanted to pop in and get toothpaste. And now
it's a ten minute, yes, an hour an hour.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
For some toothpaste.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So then for convenience, you're like, or do I just
get it on Amazon? I still haven't gotten toothpaste on Amazon.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
But I do not eat it.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, there's some things I.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Will get my espresso pa, you like minspresso, butts.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I don't drink coffee. You don't, not really, I've had it.
Let me be clear. So if somebody sees me out
in the while with the coffee, be like that bitch
ordered coffee for me. I don't really drink it, like
it is rare.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Because you don't need it a little bit of that.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
But also, I never wanted to be addicted to something,
but now I think I'm addicted to macha, which is.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
The same thing.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
I know, but it started as a ritual, which I'm
sure coffee did for me. People me on my high horse.
I don't drink coffee. I don't drink coffee, but I
do drink macha every day. This is a mancha right here.
But it's mostly fool. See, I'm not addicted. I'm not tweaking,
but I there's just certain things that I'm like, you know,
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna get that that thing
(12:42):
on the internet. You gotta go be with the people, right,
you understand.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
I like going to the store. I go to the
grocery store. I did not get my groceries delivered.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
I go every day.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
I go almost every day because it's right down the
street and I could order for for.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
A couple of days.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
I can buy for a couple of days, as opposed
to what I used to do where I came from.
You know, I learned how to cook from my grandmother,
my mom, my great aunt. There were decades that I
just really didn't know how to cook for more than
for less than fifteen people. Yeah, so I was always
overbuying and always overcooking. And then I found the the
(13:21):
Hello Fresh.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I thought you would say blue April.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Okay, yes, April Fresh.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
I've tried them all, yes, and now I understand, Oh,
if I'm cooking for myself, this is the portion I
need to buy. So I've learned how to buy the
portions now for what I want to cook. But I
always go unless I'm getting one of those boxes. Yeah,
I always go to the grocery.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
I stay in the grocery store on Sunday. I went
twice on one day. I was there the day before
and the day before that. And I was on the
phone as I was approaching the checkout line, and I
said to my friend, I'm like, I need to check
out at the store. Yeah, I'm here all the time.
I get off with her, and then the cashier was like,
who wrung me up earlier in the day, like hours before.
He was like, I'm here all the time. To shit,
(14:03):
I was like, we.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Should switch places. I should get paid to be here.
I'd just be up here, Like what else do I want?
What else in this moment?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
In this moment, and because the grocery store is too close.
But what I was gonna say about the coffee thing,
right is that I bought an espresso machine from my
guests for my house guests, because all my house guests,
everybody drinks coffee. So I'm like, I don't I don't
know how to make I think I learned how to
make it this in December. I think I know how
to do a single cup. I don't know how to
do the machine in the pot. But for the espresso, no, no,
(14:36):
an espresso a regular like a regular call coffee maker,
I don't know. But I got an espresso Black Friday sale.
It was from Target, but it was also like fifteen
years no, ten years ago, ten years ago. But got
an espresso, and no one wanted to drink. No one
liked it. So I'm surprised you liked an espresso. Everyone
(14:57):
was like, I can get this was honest. I'm gonna
say more like eight of years ago.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, espresso is luxury, honey. Okay, espresso will make you
a luxury cup. Okay of coffee. You press that button,
it's like somebody is at the coffee place doing the
things that the little foam comes out on.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Top of it a little bit.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Okay, it's rich, it's dark, it's flavorful.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Get new friends, it's good.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
They like that. Swell. They like that. Brought her down
swell the real themselves. I got, like you like that one.
They probably like it now?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, okay, because I was, I thought I had done
something good with my Black frid.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
You did do something, thank you, and I will come over,
come over and have some of that.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I got rid of it.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I got rid of I was like, nobody's gonna drink it.
I don't drink so and now I have a whole
macha setup I've been most excited about.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Like, yeah, I'm very excited. I have an electric kettle.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I was doing old school kettle up until like a
month and a half ago. I decided to come to
twenty twenty six with.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
The tea very Nigerian, you know what I'm talking about?
And I do know.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I'm black, so oh black American, We're very similar.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Oh we are. I mean, listen, I was packing.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I was packing somewhere to go somewhere, and I had
a friend over and I had a bunch of suitcases.
And this is in a New York City apartment, but
I had them like tucked away in all kinds of
places and they were big ass suitcases. And my friend
looked at me and said, and you just might be Nigerian.
I am, I am, I am.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
You know what gorgeous face to prove it? Oh?
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Really?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Really, I have to ask you, I'm supposed to ask
you this so early. Who or what do you want
to say thanks to?
Speaker 3 (17:08):
I want to say thanks to God in the universe,
whatever one believes in or doesn't.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Believe in, for.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Sparing my life and giving me more time to do
what I was put on this earth.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
To do.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
You know, so many of us who are called, and
I believe that being an artist is a calling. I
came from the church, so I add ministry. This is
my ministry.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
You know.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I have watched so many of my heroes, you know,
really burnt out so early. And because it's a lot,
and I'm grateful, excuse me cut that out.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
But you know what, this is an imperfect podcast.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Perfect belching.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Everyone says, Okay, we leave the coughs and the clearings
of throat, my guys, this is real life over here.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
You know, like I said, I've I've watched so many
of my heroes.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Burnout so early. Mhmm, and way before.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
I believed that they should have been finished.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I also lived through the age crisis. I'm fifty six
years old. You know.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I came out in nineteen eighty five and we went
straight to the front lines to fight for our lives.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
I've had a lot of loss.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
In my life at very early ages, and I am
so grateful.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
To be alive. And that is my diabetes monitor.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
That's your diabetes mind.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
On this imperfect part.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
It's an imperfect podcast.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
So what does it do? You bring me my purse? Please?
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Bring Billy so I could turn your phone off. Let'snia okay,
and that's your not done, and then we'll keep that.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
We'll keep that.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Me giveing editing notes now so that I don't have to.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Do that later. Y'all don't have to call me when
you're editing. We don't have to cut that all out.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Just could have trim the moment down it it seem
like it was a quickie. Yeah, okay, but please continue.
Do you remember where you were?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
So I'm grateful that.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I have more time. I'm grateful for this last year
that has been so challenging, and I've been working on
the effects of it right now in terms of.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
How much breaking down of my ego that I still
have to deal with.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
You know, I'm always on my self help my you know,
I'm always trying to make myself better spiritually and emotionally.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
And you know, I never felt my age until now.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Where you feel like, oh, I'm fifty six.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
For real, I'm fifty six.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
You know, my whole brand is how fabulous I am
and how elegant I.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Am and all of those things.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
And one of those very specific things is that you know,
every so often I'll put on a pump, a heel,
a Rick Owens eight inch eight and a half inch
platform boot, and I can't do that right now.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
And to be faced with, ooh.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Okay, I'm good and everything I'm feeling right now doesn't
have anything to do with my nothing to do with
anything but my ego.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
This is the next level of me breaking.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
That down so that I can continue to be the
vessel that I'm supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yes, And it's beautiful that you recognize that that that's
what the process is right now, and that's beautiful to wreck.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Thank you. I'm I'm I'm about to do.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Lakajha Foe for Encores at City Center this June during
Pride Month, and that musical I realize I've been doing
some work on it. I'm like, oh, you know, he's aging.
He's an aging drag queen.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
He's not Lola from Kinky Boots.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
He's not in his prime. Like there's space for that too,
you know what I mean. And I've had to go, oh, wow, okay, okay,
(22:51):
this is where I am.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
And it's great. It's actually great. You know.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
I was, I was, I was going, what a why
am I playing another drag queen? I don't know that,
and I was not excited about it for a while.
I was doing it because it's a dream role for
me that I've had since I was younger, you know,
back when they weren't casting black people in any of
these kinds of classic pieces. And so once again I'm getting,
(23:24):
you know, from Cabaret to this to you know, I've
had several moments where I've been able to realize these.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Dreams. But I was like, drag queen, what am I?
Speaker 3 (23:37):
And then I went and did a vocal session to
try to figure out what keys I'm gonna sing everything,
and and the first line of my first song is.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Once again.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
I'm a little depressed at the tired old face that
I see. M m hmm. It's like, ooh, this is
what I'm going through right now. This couldn't be more
(24:11):
perfect right now, It couldn't be more perfect for me
from my healing, from my journey.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
But also.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
To the world right now. This is a different billy
from what you've been used to. This is different.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Aside from older how is this billy different?
Speaker 5 (24:44):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (24:45):
You asked the good questions.
Speaker 6 (24:48):
Go.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I feel like I'm even more present.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
And I've always been, but I'm even more present now,
and I feel like the fight for it's not attention.
I get attention, it's not attention. What is the word
(25:20):
I'm looking for?
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Is it adoration?
Speaker 2 (25:22):
No, it's not adoration. The fight for.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Respect, the fight to not be pigeonholed, you know, the
fight to try to wrestle people into understanding that I'm
a very serious person and fabulous and serious coexists. That
(25:53):
fight that I have, that's gone.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I'm not fighting. I'm not fighting no more.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Why Yeah, like that? That sounds exhausting, Yes, right, So
is that why you're done with that?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah? Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
I just don't have the energy. I mean literally physically,
I do not have the energy to fight any of
that anymore.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I Am what I Am.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
That's the main song from from Lukasha Foe. That song
comes from Lukasha Foe, and I get to sing it.
I am what I am. I am my own special creation.
Do with that what you will. But I'm not fighting.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Y'all know more about it. You know.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
I'm not making you know, I'm not defending myself for
anything anymore, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
And my my mantra.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
On the social media's the information super Highway. I like
to say, because I'm old enough to remember what it was.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Called that superb that I'm not that all.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Okay, So when we started, when all of this mess started,
it was called the information super Highway, So I like
to throw that in. You know, sometimes said you.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Old bitch, do you remember, because I know black go correct?
But I see you. I promise you no, I believe it.
I believe it. But when I.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
It's like my mantra is, I do not now, nor
will I ever adjudicate my life or humanity in sound
bites on social media, and I will forever be that
person now reality speaking, social media, the internet has taken
(28:04):
over everything so much, to the point in such a
toxic way that like, if somebody says something about you
and you don't have any response to it, then your
narrative lands in the hands of somebody else.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Oh yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
So how do we You know, I've been really working
on how do I do that?
Speaker 1 (28:38):
I joined substack so you get to tell your own
story on substack.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Because substack is long form, and I'm long form. I'm
verboth I write, I talk, you know, and it's like
it's not about me defending myself because that's not the goal.
I'm not defending myself about anything, but to be able
to just.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Be in a place that has not yet turned toxic.
I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
It's that's the that's the very appealing part of substack.
There's so much social media, but I'm like, it feels
pure over here.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Well, it feels adult. I call it the maturing of
social media because the ratchet trash ain't over there because
they're not smart enough to be.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
You know, It's like Don Lemon got fired from CNN
and he went there. Yeah, Joy Reid got fired from MSNBC.
She went over there.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
All the and many, if not all, of the independent
journalists who are being released for telling the truth and
speaking truth to power and holding people accountable who are
being fired for.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
That right now, are going over there.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
You can poss you can essay, you can do your
television show.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Don limit does this television show every day.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
I think it's twice a day. I think he does
something at ten and something at five. Joy Reid has
a Joy Reid show.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Shoe.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
I watched that shit yesterday. It was two hours and
seventeen minutes, and I was like, yes, and so I'm
just beginning the process. I've only posted two essays, but
like it feels like a space that has given me
(30:33):
breath back. Because the Internet suffocates me.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
I don't like it at all.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
And the only reason why I'm there is because I'm
in show at all. Is because I'm in show business,
and that is a tool that is still necessary for me.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
You know, I'm not I don't have fuck you money.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Awards do not pay the bills.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I need to get jobs.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
I got all the awards in the world, and I
love them all and I'm grateful for all of them.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
They do not pay the bills. And as artists, I
try to explain to people we are freelance.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Every time a job ends, we have to go out
and get another one. Nobody lives their life like that,
but artists, you know. And so for my sanity, I
am grateful to Substack. Now, I just gotta build. I
gotta build my little audience because you know, yeah, well.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Listen, Billy's on substacks.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
So Billy's on substack, and I'm telling the truth, honey,
you know, you know I tell the truth.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I call people out my.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Name, you know, I'm at the I will give I
call people by name yes, not always.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I give enough information to people can figure.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
It out this and then if something doesn't change, then
I start calling out names like.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Now, Marjorie Taylor Green, you are not a fucking hero.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I'm not gonna argue against periods, all of these people
who are now coming out at the end of the earth.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
When you people sat and watched this happen. Why because
it was never gonna affect you.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yet it was never going to affect you.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Whatever you did, and whatever he did was never going
to affect you.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
It still doesn't affect you. I don't want to hear
nothing from any of those people. It's lovely.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
I went with Jane Fonda, you know, okay, so here
I said in the hospital room, I'm off the front lines.
I was there for a month, you know, because I've
been on the front line time sixteen. I'm off the
front line. I'm not doing the front lines anymore. You know.
I'm gonna be a consultant. I'm not gonna be on
the front lines no more. That lasted for about two
(33:11):
and a half minutes, and then Jane Fonda called me.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
I did the football movie with her. Was eighty for Brady.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
I did eighty for Brady for and she knows that
I'm like, you know, political and stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
So she called me to do this thing down at the.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
UH in front of the Kennedy Center for the Committee
for the First Amendment. You know, I was like, Okay,
I'll go do that. Then reven Al called me to
give me the President's Award at NAN last week, the
National Action Network last week, you know, because I'm black
(33:49):
and I'm gay and I'm out and that's still a thing,
you know.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
And I love.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Revenue Al for understanding that nobody's free unless we're all free.
I don't care what you believe. I don't care what
your doctrines, your Black church doctrine say. That isn't even
our religion. It's not even ours. It's our colonizers.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
You know. I don't. And so he called.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
And I may have you know what, I wrote a
really nice I'm not on the front line speech.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Okay, but I'm here, by the way.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
No, but like I'm not. I didn't say I wasn't
on the front lines. But it wasn't like.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
It was like, thank you, I'm so grateful, God, bless y'all.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
All.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, we have work to do
and then.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Easter Sunday happened, and that bitch said he was going
to destroy a civilization. And I said, oh yeah, and
and I.
Speaker 7 (35:01):
Rewrote my speech and I got up there and I
was like, I'm just gonna say the speech.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
But you know, there's a calling on my life, and
this is my ministry. And while I don't stand in
the poolpit every week to preach traditionally, there is.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
A bishop in me. There is a bishop. And miss
Queen Honey.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
And baby I got up and I don't know what happened.
I do know what happened, and all of a sudden,
it was like everybody just started.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
It was like we were at church.
Speaker 8 (35:54):
If Al Sharpton was standing behind me, like, he said,
I think I'm gonna need you to go preaching some
in some church.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
He said, get to actual church. Bishop.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
I said, I.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Cussed too much, but I'll take the cussing out. I'll
I'll take the cussing out.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
You would, I'll take some of the cussing out. Which
words would you allow? I would allow, damn it, Okay,
I would allow. Get your ship together, get you but
it can only come in that package. You can't be on.
It can't stand on its own. No, okay, well it could.
You know.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
The one thing that I did take out, okay, was motherfucker,
you took that out.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I took it out. I said, ms.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Okay, I said, lock these m f's out.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Phraise music played because.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
If there was, if there was a gospel group there,
and I don't know why he didn't get on the
keyboard and key up, because I was.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Keyed up, fuddy. You can see it.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I'm posted on a substat Okay, all twenty two minutes
of it.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Okay, I didn't get the four minute memo, but you
have four minutes. Don't give Billy a mic.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Don't give Billy and.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Not tell him it's four minutes before the day before.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Yeah, you need that information well in advance the day before.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
They were like, oh and they should be no more
than four minutes.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
I said, okay, we also let me tell you this.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yeah, okay, okay, you get four times up five and
you get four times five point five. Okay, But but
I have to say, people, they want to hear you,
they want to hear you and listen four minutes. The
reality is, if you had prepared four minutes anyway, you
(37:48):
pivoted based on what the news was doing, and it
was going to be twenty two minutes.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
I needed to say what I needed to say.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
And the thing that's so surprising to me right now,
being first generation post civil rights movement, is how many
people are afraid to speak. You're saying everything everybody wants
to say, then why are you not saying it?
Speaker 1 (38:13):
I think people are not just losing things, losing opportunities.
But it's interesting because you're going to lose them anyway anyway.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Because they're coming from my black faggot ass.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Whether I speak now or not, I'm in that position already,
so there's no reason. And I use the word. I
use the F word as a recogno. It's not on
the pool bit. I use that word as a reclamation
of the words of my oppressors. Sure, just like black
(38:46):
people use the N word.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Na. You know what I mean? It's like, what are we?
Who are we pretending for now? Who were we being
politically correct for now? I'm out of that.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, miss me with that age, because you are in
your I don't give a fuck.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Era you are.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
It helps, it helps, doesn't it help? To be fifty
six real with me?
Speaker 2 (39:21):
It does?
Speaker 1 (39:22):
It does, And to almost die.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
And to almost die it helps. I mean I was
dead for three days. Technically, did you see Jesus? I
did not?
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Thank you for it, and thank you for asking that question.
I didn't see anything, nothing. It was completely black, and
that leads me to know my time ain't done yet.
I didn't see mom, I didn't see Grandma. I didn't
see a tunnel. I didn't see no lights. I didn't
have no negotiations with spirits.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
I didn't have nothing. I was black.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
And then I woke up three days later and thought
I was in Michanos.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Where we're you at Bellevue.
Speaker 6 (40:03):
They is not making those not even close, not even close,
not even I need one more thing from my bag,
which is my fan.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Okay, because now podcast Billy, can we get Billy's fan?
You're getting hot toasting.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
I am having my men o pause moment, men o pause,
men oh, men have it to you.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Guys get hot with age. I know you get more
attractive with age.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Thank you, not just you.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
But I know I believe it because I am just a.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Little bit of pre just a little bit of promotion.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Billy black Mona Lisa Billy Porter is black Mona Lisa
as well.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
I thought the fan might say, Billy Porter is on Substack,
because I thought you were just here to promote Substack.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
So I'm here to promote my book. Okay, oh ship, yes,
you forgot all about it?
Speaker 5 (41:00):
Because Songbird in the Light, please, Songbird in the Light.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Do you even have one? No? I don't. Why didn't
I thought they would have brought you one? Could you
sign it? Of course you don't have an image.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
You can put that in later. You can super improse
the image on our heart.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
We'll put it. We'll put it like right on your chest.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
Yeah, put it on my chest or one of them
little pop ups that the kids do that. I don't
know how to do now on you know how to
do that on the Instagram. I don't know how to
do it. I see these things. I'm like, I don't
know how to do.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
So the person listening that sound you here is Billy's fair.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
I know it's going to wear the sec who but
I'm sweating from.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
The inside parts inside remember that it's but by the way,
it's hot today.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
It's hot today, it's hot. You know what the inside
part is? Where that comes from?
Speaker 2 (41:55):
The kucie? What's the kuccie? Oh? Well, yes, but do
you know where that line came?
Speaker 1 (42:02):
No, no, no, tell me beloved, beloved Tony Morrison's beloved
the movie, the movie, because I read the book the movie,
but it is the Cuci, right see, I didn't know why.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Did I whisper? Like anyway? The Coucci? Billy?
Speaker 3 (42:28):
Shall we pivot to the children's book where you want
to talk some more about some other shit.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
I don't really have to know about the book except
for that people need to get it unless you want
to say something.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Okay, here's the thing. Yes, I want to say one thing.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yes, So there is a memoir came out twenty twenty one,
Billy Porter Unprotected came out during COVID.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
A lot of people don't know about it.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
And in that one, oh names, Okay.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
I name a couple of I name a couple of names.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
And I've run into the people whose names I've named,
and I know they haven't read.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
The bookcase it's sweet.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
It's because they still talk to me. I'm fair.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
But so that book, I want to package it together
to remind people that there's a memoir.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
And then this is like.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
It's kind of memoir based as well. It's called Songbird
in the light and it's about a little boy who
finds his voice through singing, and it's based on my life.
The original title was rockhead Bill because that's what they
(43:43):
called me because my head grew larger than my body
between the ages of like.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Eight and eleven. My head looked like this, like it was.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
You know, the nicknames when we were children, they're so cruel, horrible.
My family used to call me, which means bone skeleton,
because I was tired. As you were thinking, but she
doesn't eat, and I'm like, I do, I do eat.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
This is just the size of my body. You're right,
So they called me rockhead bill.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
So interestingly enough, ironically enough, I think I'm using that
word right. I wrote my whole memoir, two hundred and
eighty plus pages of it, on my own, and you know,
I had help coaching, you know, and mentorship, but I
wrote it on my own.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
I come to write this children's book, and I.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Tried three times, and my publisher was like, it's called
rockhead Bill. The inciting incident is the fact that the
kids threw rocks at my head. Turns out that might
be a little violent for children from the ages of
four to eight.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Look at me I didn't even catch it. I'm like, yeah, okay,
right right.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Because that's what happened. They're like, oh, it's a little violent.
Speaker 5 (44:57):
I was like, that's what they did. Actually through eight
years old day threw rocks in my head. What are
y'all talking about?
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Romanticize those children? We're not gonna do. You don't romanticize
the bully.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
I do not romanticize those bullies.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Oh yeah, I'm like, then it's okay to call it
what it was.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
So we got Chris Clarkson and Charlie Palmer. I've never
met them in person, which is hard, and I'm gonna
throw I'm gonna take them to dinner.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Saying because we don't do this at my show, but
this team here wet. We're not a visiting studio. They
said we could pull it up for you.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Come on team.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
So one of the things that I was really I'm so,
you know. So I met with Chris Clarkson, who is
a children's book writer, and I told him the story
about me finding my voice, being bullied, finding my voice,
and the reality is in fifth grade when I signed
up for the Talent show and won, the bullying.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Stopped because they said he's a star. Yes, I might
need Billy someday.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
And so that was really that was an interesting thing.
Charlie Parker.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
Uh Palmer, Charlie Palmer, the.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
The visuals, the illustrations.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
I was really interested in aspirational art for kids.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
I didn't want it to be kitty art. No shade.
I don't mean any shade by that.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
But what I my goal was, I want to create
this book so that whoever it speaks to as a
child will keep it with them and put it on
that coffee table when they're an adult, next to.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Their adult coffee table. Yes, because it's art.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
It's beautiful. Thank you, I'm taken by. I'm so distracted.
You have to put the thanks dad by a go
back up because I'm up close and I can see
the details.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Of the art. The art is beautiful.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
It's stunning. Chris an actual artist though.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah, Like so it's not just painted. Do you have
any pieces from him?
Speaker 3 (47:06):
Now, I'm like, I don't I have Get that book.
Get the book you have like twenty four pieces?
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Songbird in the Light.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Songbird in the Light, Darling, Get it to all your children, okay,
and the adults, because y'all could learn something from that book.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Absolutely, the babies will teach us. Yes, it was written
by you and your co writer.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, but he was he really distilled
rockhead Bill into songbird.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yes, he's They came back, they said, okay, so rockhead
Bill maybe maybe stead of rockhead it's a songbird.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
I was trying to be funny.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Yeah, but you know I wasn't on you know, I
wasn't a regular and l yet.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
So what I could have sworn together Monday pitch writing,
our schedules and.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
You know, I'm trying to do comedy now.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
You want to do comedy now? Like stand up?
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Stand up? Have you gone? Because it scares.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Me?
Speaker 1 (48:10):
I think you would be good at it. I'm not
even an expert, but I'm like.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
Everybody, all my stand up people who I talked to,
They're like, you're already a stand up. You just need
to get up and do it. And it terrifies me.
And there's very little that like terrifies me anymore. And
so I'm doing a podcast with Phoebe Robinson and who
(48:35):
did I say, Leslie Jones soon and I was talking
to them about it and they were like, well, we'll
help you, you know, we'll you know, everybody's like, you
just have to get up and do it.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
You know, you don't need to write it.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
Just pick a theme, get up and just start talking
and you'll be surprised.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
So I'm getting there.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Do you think, are you scared of bombing?
Speaker 2 (49:01):
No?
Speaker 1 (49:02):
No, oh, well then you're billy. You're gonna be fine.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Like, I'm not scared of bombing. I don't want to bomb,
of course, but everybody's gonna bomb.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
But if you're not scared of it.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
I'm not scared of bombing. My whole life has been
a series of bombs. That's where the that's where the
the mastery comes from. That's you know, I'm not scared
of bombing.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Oh good, Okay, Now you said something about it being
good here. Now that that's sort of how you're considering
this new space, this new chapter you're in because it's
good here. Now, what's good about it?
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Good?
Speaker 3 (49:41):
You mean for me personally, it's good and it's challenging.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (49:50):
I always find that the challenges are the greatest space
for me. The fear is the greatest space for me.
The loss is the great space for me, The failure
is the greatest space for me because that's where I
learn the most.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
And so once again I'm in another learning space.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
You know, I smashed through a glass ceiling that was concrete.
I was never supposed to on paper rise to the
heights and be elevated to the sort of a list
(50:41):
wild success space that I did that I have, And
now that I'm there, I have realized, oh, so many
people then spend their lives trying to stay there, and
that that's where.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
I'm finding the fractures happen. I'm learning.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Yet another version of an ebb and flow, another version
of impermanent. Nothing is permanent and you can't hold on
to any of it because the holding on to it
is where the suffering happens. And so even in the
(51:33):
uncomfortable that I feel right now, and I am very
very uncomfortable now right now, I'm also very inspired at
the same time for whatever.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
Comes next. I have a production company.
Speaker 3 (51:52):
I've had it for three years, you know, four years
actually three are going on four years. I had a
deal at FAC the strikes came, all of that stuff
went away, all of it seems to have whatever, And
It's like, but I have so much to focus on
(52:12):
right now that is about me and about the stories
that I want to tell. I want to be the
head bitch in charge. I'm more interested in creating the
stories and filling the gaps of the stories that I
don't see from the people that I don't see it from,
(52:34):
from the marginalized.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
Folks like myself.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
I went to see Cat's Agelical Ball the other night, and.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
I couldn't stop crying.
Speaker 3 (52:49):
I just I mean, I got here in the late
eighties early nineties, there was nothing like that for me
to do.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
I graduated from Carnegie.
Speaker 3 (52:58):
Mellon, I studied classical theater, and all I could do
was be in a musical review when I graduated, or
be or have some or be some thug on a
guest spot on a television show. You know, like there
was nothing they weren't casting people in. In less, they
(53:20):
weren't casting people in in Uh, Phantom of the Opera
and things of that nature. My first Broadway show was
was Uh Miss Sagon, and that was a gift. And Cats,
being a show that was from my generation, was one
of the only spaces where they were casting any kinds
(53:42):
of people of color. So there's a special place in
my heart for that very special show that didn't age.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Well until now, Divas.
Speaker 3 (53:57):
It is one of the greatest pieces of art that
I have seen in a really, really long time.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
And to have those people.
Speaker 3 (54:09):
On that stage from the ballroom community melded with the
you know, the more traditional theater people, and to I just.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (54:22):
And to know that I'm a part of that, To
know that I'm a part of the generation that held
the gatekeeper's feet to the fire and said no, you
will see.
Speaker 2 (54:34):
Us, you will see us, is just magical. To me.
It really is just lovely.
Speaker 3 (54:44):
It really really is lovely, and so I want to
continue to do that.
Speaker 2 (54:49):
It's not just about me. You know, I've had it,
I got it all. I have it.
Speaker 3 (54:56):
I have all the things that I've ever dreamed of
and more. You know, I've already done it. Anytime I
have like that, you know, when we all have that
twin je oh I want to it's like, oh wait,
I already did it.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
Yeah yeah, I already did that. It's special.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
Yeah, it is special. It's cool because it's all part
of your I feel like, part of your legacy. Yeah right, yeah,
part of your legacy. And you said though that you've
done it all, You've done it all. Of it, most all,
most all, We're gonna get you that.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
Oh yeah, And I want my you know, I want
my television show that I write and direct and create
and start in. I want my films. I want my
you know plays, I want my musicals. I wrote a
musical with Kirk Carr, gospel recording artist Kirk Carr. You
(55:55):
know that I'm pushing up that hill like Sisyphis. You know,
I have lots of projects and that in the conference
that I've been.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
Working on for years. You know, Yeah, now is the
time to get that done.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
So what's making you uncomfortable?
Speaker 2 (56:09):
Now?
Speaker 1 (56:09):
What's you feel very uncomfortable? What's so uncomfortable?
Speaker 2 (56:15):
A go, Billy, Well, we gotta go on sub sect
to get the real. So you're not gonna tell me
or what's making me uncomfortable?
Speaker 1 (56:32):
The most uncomfortable?
Speaker 3 (56:35):
Well, I'll go from Howard where the uncomfortable started, COVID
into two strikes, into a really messy, nasty divorce for
three years that just got over about two months ago.
(56:56):
Finally where he got every all every cent I ever
worked for in my life, no legally, And people ask me,
how is that possible? How is it possible that orange
Gina is in office for the second time. Ask yourself
(57:19):
that and then you'll understand why our legal system is trash.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
Period. No.
Speaker 3 (57:28):
I he was before anything, so I didn't even know
what that.
Speaker 1 (57:31):
Was your like prena for one, I didn't know what
that was.
Speaker 5 (57:36):
Great, yes, but I didn't know what we've just got.
We just got the right to get married, like I didn't.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it never even crossed my mind.
Speaker 2 (57:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:47):
And presumably when you're getting married, you're like, this is
my person, right, And.
Speaker 3 (57:51):
I will say that Ryan Murphy God bless him, met
him and said, you need to get a post Oh,
and I didn't.
Speaker 2 (58:02):
You didn't do it because he saw it.
Speaker 1 (58:04):
How many years before it was time to get divorced?
Did Ryan call that? Four? Oh?
Speaker 2 (58:12):
You had?
Speaker 1 (58:13):
He told you four years in advance.
Speaker 2 (58:15):
He met him one time and said you need a
post nut Ryan b knowing, and then my mom died.
That's really uncomfortable. Yeah, that's really hard.
Speaker 3 (58:36):
You know.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
It's me and my sister and my mother was.
Speaker 3 (58:42):
A very religious Pentecostal woman, Church of God in Christ.
Speaker 1 (58:46):
Child kojak, kojak, that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (58:50):
Saying it wrong.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
But I know the ceog I.
Speaker 3 (58:54):
Kojak, and when I came out to her as gay
in the eighties, she didn't have a good response.
Speaker 2 (59:04):
She loved me, she didn't kick me out. She did
I didn't get that, but she was afraid from my soul,
Oh you're going to hell, the same old And she
went from that all the way to a choosing me.
Speaker 3 (59:29):
And choosing the LGBTQ plus community.
Speaker 2 (59:34):
In Jesus' name through love, and.
Speaker 3 (59:41):
Told my sister and I on her deathbed to stand
up in front of her casket and hold the people
who the church, people who were her community for a
long time, and who were the traumatizers of our family,
hold them accountable and tell them the truth because they
(01:00:04):
are wrong. I mean, it's so beautiful and I miss
her so much, and then sepsis. You know, I've never
felt my age until right now. My whole body is
(01:00:24):
what I use from my work, and there's a part
of it that I can't use right now fully coming back.
Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
They don't know if it's going to be one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
I can tell you right now it's about eighty five
ninety percent. The compartment syndrome destroyed all of the nerves
in my foot. They're coming back. They're coming back, but
I'll see, you know, a performance you know, of me
(01:01:07):
in kinky boots or a performance of me and something.
And I'm you know, it's uncomfortable to know that I
can't do that right now.
Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
Yeah, and I don't know if I'll ever be able
to do that.
Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
That's an uncomfortable place because that was my superpower. And
to feel like you've lost your superpower is uncomfortable. Like
I said, to feel like you've lost your superpower is uncomfortable.
Feelings are not always facts, and so I'm working myself
(01:01:45):
through that right now.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
And it's uncomfortable in a good way.
Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
Like I said, it's uncomfortable in a good way because
whatever whatever grows from this, I've been planting these seeds
my whole life. I plant seeds all the time. I
never stopped I never stopped dreaming, I never stopped growing,
(01:02:13):
I never stopped expanding, and I never stopped holding myself accountable.
Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
You know.
Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
Right now, I'm like, oh, this is my ego that
I thought I had dealt with. And the ego is tricky.
Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
You know. I did that Mariah Carey thing, right I
love talking to you. I did that, and I'm like.
Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
So my first event back was the Grammys and I
was called to do a tribute to Mariah Carey for
the Music Cares.
Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
They do it every year, and a few years ago
I did it for uh this, My brain is still foggy.
Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
I didn't even have substance in my brain.
Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Is my brain?
Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
I sang both sides now, Jonny Mitchell, and so they
called me back to do this.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
And you know, my fashion is my armor.
Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
My fashion is my weapon, My fashion is my politics.
My fashion.
Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Is my superpower.
Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
And it's based on a very specific thing, very specific things,
non binary de gendering of fashion. I wear what the
fuck I want, right, and when I'm doing the non
binary thing and leaning into the feminine part of it,
of of of me, the silwet is this. And then
(01:04:04):
this the train right when I'm in eight and a
half inch.
Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Rick Owens platform pumps, it makes me about six to two.
So that train catches the wind and just lays behind
me like it should.
Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
I saw myself singing always Be My Baby, and I
remember I kept stepping on my train. I was like,
am I stepping on this train?
Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
And I looked at me. When I finally looked at it,
I was like, oh my god, I'm in flats. It's
not catching the air, it's bunching up under me. I
look like the clothes are wearing me. That's never happened
to me before. I like, it was like, that's only me.
(01:05:07):
Nobody else noticed it. And it's my ego. That's my ego.
I get what it is, you know. And it's like,
oh my god, I'm about to do play a drag
queen in a Broadway show and I'm gonna have to
put on a kitten heill like Michelle Obama.
Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
Let me say, I used to talk about kitten hills,
but I love a kitten hill.
Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Now I'm sorry. I know you might just have.
Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
To get used to k I used to talk so
much shit about a kid wear a flat or wear
a heel, but not a kitten. And now I got
like three pairs of kitten heels.
Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
I'm gonna have to go to product and get them kidneys. Yeah,
they're kind of cute. They are cute, and it's still
a heel.
Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
It's still a heel, and it's still elegant. And if
it's an inch, it's a heel. I mean, oh, go
to You're gonna go to I'm gonna go to I
can do two okay, Okay, be careful, I.
Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
Know, but like that part, like the image part, like
just really going Okay, it's okay. I am exactly where
I'm supposed to be. There's growth in this and I
feel it happening all at once.
Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
Yeah, well, Billy, it's time for a segment. I call
that's nice. But what about me?
Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
So that was cute or whatever.
Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
Okay, so that was cute or whatever, but we're gonna
talk about me now. No, I want to take the
segment to say thank you so much for sharing yourself
with me today, of course listeners, for your vulnerability, for
your honesty. I am so inspired by the way you're
(01:07:05):
choosing to live, especially now after having been in the
hospital and been dead for three days.
Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
Yes, and for those of you who want to talk
shit on my comments talking about I'm being extra and
not dead, look it up.
Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
He was dead dead and I just had to say that.
I just had to say that.
Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
You know, because it's not on a SoundBite on social media.
Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Yes, it's on real press.
Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, said, let me say it here.
Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
You motherfucker's telling me what I went through.
Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
And he said, motherfucker is not a mefirst No, because
we're not the church.
Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Telling me what I what I went through?
Speaker 6 (01:07:46):
How very dare you see?
Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
I haven't sense of humor too? You do?
Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
But you know what the thing is, I do want
to ask you this about defending a quick give me
like your your fastest way to be like, I won't
be defending myself against trolls. Because you still felt the
need to say something here and I resonate with that
where you're like, I need to let you know, why
are you speaking on my situation. Come to the come
to the mike right right right, say what is like
(01:08:14):
a good piece of advice because I think a lot
of people fall into that.
Speaker 3 (01:08:17):
Well for me, I'm not doing it here. Okay, I'm
not doing it here. Okay, I will address it here,
and I'll address it.
Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
Right here on the podcast on Thanks Dad with Ago Wodem. Yes,
and you have been Billy Porter.
Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
This is real, So y'all can hear the whole thing.
You can? Yes, I'm extra and why are you not?
And you're not a enough all of the things. I'm
extra and you're not all of the things.
Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
Yeah, I will you know what I mean like it's like, yeah,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
I do know. That's what I'm here.
Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
I have to have you back on the Please you
have to do a part too, please, I want to
I want.
Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
To check in.
Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
Yeah, okay, all right, Billy, I love you to do
that was that? Was it? Because I wanted to just
ask how you handled the trolls handled Yeah, that's.
Speaker 3 (01:09:10):
Yes, Yes, that's how I handled the trolls. I handled
the trolls.
Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
On by living Okay, okay, okay, I keep living and
I keep thriving.
Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
And you do, yeah, and you really do. Yeah, Billy,
I'm so glad you're alive. Thank you for coming you
delight and okay, that was my talk with Billy Porter.
How inspiring. I feel so inspired. And I was right,
(01:09:44):
it's the kuchie. It's usually the kuchie. If you want
advice from me and my next guest, you could have
had advice from Billy Porter. If someone had called and
told us some tea, you could have gotten advice from
me and Billy Porter. And I think Billy would have
given good advice.
Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
I just get this.
Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
But anyway, if you want advice, call five zero two
eight four nine three two three seven five zero two
eight four nine three two three seven five zero two.
Thanks THHX Dads, What a beautiful day, What a beautiful day.
Please tune in next time. I love you, next time.
Bye bye.
Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Thanks Dad.
Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
Is a production of Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and
iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host Aego wodem Our producer is
Kevin Bartelt and our executive producer is Matt Appadaka
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