Black America's Fav Attorney BEN CRUMP in the Trap | 85 South Show Podcast

Legendary lawyer BENJAMIN CRUMP sits down to talk about the legal system and his new book. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Truth telling brothers. They jus comedy, but but they always
told the truth. Thank you all for keeping that legacy going. Man, man,
appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
It's in the privilege. Well we have what we're looking like.
Hold on, let me check something right quick.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Check it on out. Yeah, we all country to mister Crumb.
You know Missipi, people from Georgia and Florida. You got
this fly Yeah. Yeah, we're talking about what we start calling.

Speaker 4 (00:34):
The fan.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Yeah, yeah, that's what's up.

Speaker 5 (00:38):
Appreciate it, man, man, it's not.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yea were good comedian, mister crow, but you don't never
get a chance next. You've always got to be we
flopish you can come out. Yeah, you just what other
people we need to go. I'm just getting y'all got everything.

(01:14):
I feel like everybody got on.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
Yeah, Atlanta you got I want exactly. Yeah, you said
that love me about North Carolina already.

Speaker 6 (01:27):
Man, And she said, yeah, I know beautiful people and
they back and he is and the white people because
we call mingland.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
Yeah what what my what jail jah jail?

Speaker 5 (01:44):
We want to prop it up. I wanna put something
behind it, some stuff here? What said the probably just open? Yeah?
Oh put.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
Man, I went to the mall today. They in there.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
I went to the cookie spot, right, I got me
a large drink. Man, That lady gave me a large
drink with two SIPs of drinking it.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, I's not to go back the ice.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
AI about about I've been a lot of studios.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
That might be the coolest. That's how we lived. Man.
Let me stay that.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
I'm civil rights attorney, being crumps many referred to as
Black America's attorney general.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
And I'm here with eighty five South.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Indeed, and I was telling the fellas, first of all,
thank you all for carrying on the legacy of Richard
Pryor and Bernie Mack and Robin Harris, these courageous brothers
who made it funny but told a lot of ruth
about black culture and the black struggle. I remember all
those Richard Pride jokes man. And the last thing I say, gentlemen,

(03:09):
I've been a lot of studios.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
Man, this might be the coolest studio I ever been.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
You're talking about representing the culture. Yes, glad to have you, brother.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Smooth bit here.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Come on, man, play me something so we can get
to this deposition.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
Come along.

Speaker 5 (03:42):
Procedures, because hold on, I get the discovery. Hold, I
didn't even get the discovery yet. We're about to have
some education.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
We coming real, real smooth, with more efidence than a
grand jury.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
Come on, man, you don't know what we man.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
We're gonna talk about all the constitutional rights the Lord
right there.

Speaker 5 (04:04):
They trying to take it, especially Mississippi Alabae.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
But we we need to have the constitution for our people.

Speaker 4 (04:12):
Boy, they used to make her read that they constituents
clear out all but you know what it said.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
That and that with what's going on with Ice, boy, Shoot,
they're attacking the constitution in every way.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Now we may get into that. Yeah, man, see this
is what you might not know.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
And you know, when all this stuff be going on
all across America, all the protests and stuff like that,
and you know, when you go through there and you
do your thing. We have to come through a couple
of weeks and go talk to the people exactly. They
be coming out to them shows and they be catching
us up and giving us the inside and what the
city feeling.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
Many because that's exactly what I said.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Thank y'all for carring on the legacy of Richard Pride
Man and Bernie Back and there man if you go
back and watch Richard Pride basing.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
To you nigga.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, he is telling the news from our culture in
an engaging way.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, I mean Richard Prony in hold back Man and Red.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
Fox all.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Oh man, Man, you went there, man, Gregory kept it
real always.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Most definitely and then welcome back man. Come on man.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Now you know we come in here, we get a
lot of guests, man, but today we got a very
special guests.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
Man. We got civil rights attorney. Come on, many turn yes,
come on, come.

Speaker 5 (05:50):
On, and.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
We get to really get the inside school man. Brother,
welcome to the eighty fast half show.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Hey, thank you King, Hey man, honor to be here
a for you, brothers.

Speaker 5 (06:05):
Go.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
I keep representing the coaching plus now more than ever.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Now, before we even get into all the heavy stuff, listen,
let's just take you back and say, how did you
get started into law?

Speaker 3 (06:16):
You made, you choose law, you know, and this has
been chronicled before.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
I remember the exact time when I was nine years
old and Lumberton, North Carolina, a little small town in
North Carolina. And you remember Brown versus Board of Education
in the United States.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Decision said with all deliberate speed.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Well in North Carolina, I'm sure was similar in Mississippi.
They took their time and so all deliberate speeds that
finally integrate the schools. And Lumberton, North Carolina, was nineteen
eighty from nineteen fifty five to nineteen eighty, and so
they bust us little black children literally from South lumber

(07:00):
to the black section of town, crossed the tracks to
the white section of town, where they had the new schools,
new books, new technologies, knew everything, And I remember coming
home on the school bus, little nine year old kids,
just observing everything.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
And you looked in the white community.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Man, they had all the roads newly paved, the buildings
had on and that was professionally done. You had the
trees and everything that were manicured. And then you cross
over the tracks to our community and you see immediately
dilapidated buildings, potholes in the road everywhere. My old little

(07:44):
black elementary school, the paint crumbling, probably got lad poisoning
in most. And I remember saying colors to my mom.
I said, I wonder while on they side of town
they seem to have it so good, and we seemed
to have it so challenging. My mother said, well, baby,
the reason you all get to go to the new

(08:05):
schools with the new books and new technology is because
the NAACP and brown versus boarder education and a lawyer
named Thirdgod Marshall.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
And it was from that day I said, when I
grow up, I'm gonna be a lawyer like Third Good
Marshall and fight for people in my community and people
who look like me to have an equal opportunity after
American dream. And from that day to this one, every
day I wake up and I know what my mission is.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
And another question that I had as a black man
outside of work, because you have to leave work at work,
how hard is it for you to go home and
turn it over?

Speaker 1 (08:47):
You know, it's interesting because I think it's always with you.
I look at my daughter, I look at all my
nieces and nephews, and you.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Understand what you're fighting for. Man, were fighting for our future.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
I mean especially right now in America, they seem to
have declared.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
War on black and brown people. I mean attack on.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
Black literature, black history, black culture, black colleges. Yes, I
mean we got to realize they declare war.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
So every day we got to be all in.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
I try to have an outlet by writing, and you know,
being able to talk to my daughter about you know,
what things do they see in the world, and just
listening to your children. It is riveting how they think
about things and so forth. And so those are my outlets.
And I work out every day. Man, I'm so serious

(09:47):
about health. Tragically, I lost my little one of my
little brothers two years ago and that focused me more.
As black people, especially as black men, we got to
watch out a one C pretension and everything. So you know,
I'm trying to eat right, I'm trying not to eat
so much of the ribs and.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Grints and so forth.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
And you know, I don't think about that myself. And
I'm trying to work out and be healthy.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
Man. So that's my outlets.

Speaker 4 (10:17):
You said them grits. I was thinking about their starts
right there. So we really not supposed to be eating
the white foods like that.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
And man, that white is good for you. Man, starting
to carbohydrate.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
They're not good. Man.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
We really got to be intentional about our health because, uh,
you know, and this is something different, but I think
it's appropriate because y'all have the audience and we have
to entertain them and engage them.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
And then educate them.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
And I do believe this man, the powers that be
in America want to keep us sick, stupid, and.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
Broke because he control.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
You know, if they keep us eating bad food and
so forth, where we going to the doctor and we
ain't healthy, and then they keep us broke by making
sure they deny us opportunities, that access to capital, which
is something that we need, not more than ever. And
then if they denying us education. I mean, right now,
this attack on the black colleges and attack on everything

(11:26):
divers and equity and inclusion, it's designed to keep us broke.
And so that's why we got to fight overcoming every
chance we get. And I know y'all gonna figure out
how to make these funny so people accept it more.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
But I gotta say it, that's what they don't want us, six.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Stupid and broken black people, and we got to say
we refused.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (11:45):
I mean that around you in the community, that's gonna
make you feel better, actually be healthy for you. A
lot of times they talk about the food deserts, They
talk about all that kind of stuff where you go
eat at it's so fast food place they got around here,
that greasy place to God, ain't no vegetables you're gonna find.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
Might be that water, the little ban then the oranges.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
But it is so deep that you say that, man,
because I thought of two things immediately when you said that.
I thought about Goodie mob we hear and lo t
And you remember they said that soul food about They
tried to say, yeah, they made it affordable, trying to
make it bullsh exactly, you know they say. So I

(12:31):
thought about that there, and then I immediately thought, y'all,
I have the honor of representing the Black Farmers Association,
and we got.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
Doing farmer dirty period.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
But the black can't remember y'all remember this the food
that we would have food deserts if we had black
farmers and were able to grow our own food and
make this empty. Five people have fresh markets and everything.
So it's those type of things that we gotta be
thinking about outside the box to say we don't need
nobody to come and save us.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
We can save ourselves.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
We just got to collect them to sit down and
have conversations like this.

Speaker 5 (13:09):
Yeah, can you talk about that too with the Black
Farmers Association, just letting people.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
Know what they're doing it on people videos. Yeah, what
it is.

Speaker 5 (13:17):
Yeah, you're not getting the same opportunity already kind of
messing over farmers period with what they're doing in the
White House. But the black ones getting it the worst.
They're not even able.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
To get left out the ballouts and the grants exactly
like that.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
And that's what we have to fight in the court
of law, in the court of public opinion.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
Like Thurgod Marshall said.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
You know, Black people, when we fight for justice, it's
not enough for us to fight in the court of law. No,
we got to fight in the court of public opinion.
We got to win society over to make the judges
understand that we're not going anywhere right. They go in
courtrooms and they come up with all kind of technicalities.

(13:59):
I call it the legalization of discrimination, and they do
it every day in America. But when you like, when
you think about George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and Trayvon
the crowds were so big that they couldn't know us.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
And that was the same with.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Third Good Marshall and them talking about brin versus Boyd
education Martin Luther King, Yeah, I'm talking about exactly.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
And you know in Bamah how.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Much it took to be able to let blacks get
under the bus in the front.

Speaker 4 (14:26):
When you say when you say that, and that's that
buzz boy cap. But when you say that about the farmers,
my folks had something called the Rual Farm Development Council
because all the farmers had to be onder something organization
wise to affect everybody else.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
You know what I mean. But I didn't know that
was the importance of it till you just said that.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
The Yeah, and the federal government used to oversee those things. Now,
but with the current ruling power, the federal government is
the worst perpetrator of assaulting our people and our culture.
So when it comes to the black farmers, I mean,
you think about it. I always listened to John Boyce say, man,

(15:03):
we used to have a million black farmers in America.
Now we're down to like two hundred thousand. I think
it's ten million black farmers. Now we're down to two
hundred thousand people who can live off the land and
produce their own and not depending on somebody else. They
have an old African proverb, whoever fees you controls you. Yeah,

(15:27):
we ain't got to feed ourselves, brothers.

Speaker 5 (15:29):
Yeah, yeah, it ain't just food. Yeah, it ain't just food.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
But then it's like we had to get grown to
realize that, you know, like you said at the Court
of Public Opinion, and make it sound like black people
just complaining about everything, not knowing that all of these
complaints or situations that was created where they put us
in places like where we can't get the healthcare, we
can't get the jobs.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
You know.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
You know what I mean to be able to stack
any kind of wealth or anything, and that's stress. And
then you're eating bad and it's like it's gonna need
you to an early grave, just living life exactly.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
And it's so funny how they try to move the
gold post every on talking about black people complaining. America
was founded on protests, people complaining.

Speaker 4 (16:14):
That, you know, we go ahead to the Christmas wait before,
but we're definitely gonna go to Christmas. And they say
he was black, yeah, man, say he was around yeah
yeah yeah, and man yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
Brothers. Man, y'all put on the chair to go in
the court room. Y'are dropping. I forgot with the lawyer, right.
I wish you want to tell me why I got representation.

Speaker 5 (16:44):
I got nothing quarter from my whole life, man, I'm
definitely to this pitch out.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
I got a right like you.

Speaker 5 (16:58):
We gotta go to Minneapolans this weekend, oh man, and
I wanted to get your opinion on what's going on
up there exactly.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
I know you've been getting a lot of calls. Yeah,
a lot of stuff going on in Man.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
So tragic to watch the Constitution being obliberated right before
our eyes. I mean when you think about it, and
obviously I know Minneapolis were representing George Floyd's family, so
many others, but man, when you look at what Ice

(17:35):
is doing, I mean, it's a complete assault on the Constitution.
The most basic constitutional rights, the Bill of Rights.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
They attacking all of them.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
I mean, when you think about they're attacking the First Amendment,
right to assembly, right to a free speech, right to
protest expression, Second Amendment, when you think about alex Parade,
they you know, saying what they care about that exactly,
the Second Amendment rights, the right is to bear arms.

(18:08):
The Fourth Amendment right against unlawful searches and seizures. I
mean they kicking the people front doors with no warrants,
I mean, busting car windows and racially profiling.

Speaker 5 (18:19):
I saw they tried to go into an embassy, or
some dignitary.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Things, arresting dial Lemon and Georgia for these journalists from
Chess exercising their First Amendment rights, the Fifth Amendment right
to do process of the law. This notion that you're
innocent and to proven guilty. Now they just how you look.
You got to prove you innocent, you guilty until we

(18:46):
say you innocent. And then the sixth Amendment right to
counselor the fact that people lawyers are trying to get
into the detention facilities to be able to advise their counselors,
and you know.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
They won't let a man.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
And then the worst of all, y'all, and we're not
even talking about this, the Eighth Amendment right against crueling
and usual punishment.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
I mean, people who need.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
Their medicine, that insulin are their heart medicine and everything.
They putting them into detention facility, not offering them any humanity,
and they are dying in these detention facilities and nobody's
talking about it, man, And we gotta I get it, y'all.
A lot of people saying, well, we let's sit this out.
We've been doing the struggle on everything else, and I

(19:33):
understand that black people were every time we fight for
civil rights, everybody else seemed to benefit and everything.

Speaker 5 (19:41):
Everybody come on the back end once the God damn
ye niggas is bruised up.

Speaker 4 (19:51):
Everything that you're saying now, things that have actually been
happening to us in real time.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, and not the world's paying attention to it.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
I regrettably, man, As much as we want to see that,
we can't, y'all, because literally it's our Hispanic sisters and
brothers now. But y'all already see they switching to a
profile now to Haitians, and I know we can say
we were born an American all like that. They said,
our Negro you look a lot like those Haitians, and

(20:19):
we gonna make you prove you an American.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
So we're gonna bust your window too. We're gonna kick
in your door.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
So none of us are safe unless all of us
are safe, y'all. We as black people always have to
remember what King said, injustice anywhere, it's a threat to
justice everywhere.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
Little injustice against.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Our Hispanic brothers, mean, it's gonna make it that much
easier to be a little injustice against us African sisters
and brothers.

Speaker 5 (20:46):
Yeah, because if you chop everybody up and divine people
into anything but people. Yeah, then and then they got
a monopoly on stupid.

Speaker 3 (20:54):
All the stupid people.

Speaker 5 (20:55):
They have figured out how to you know, speak they
god damn dumb ass language. The rest of us, they
had time for them. It's crazy. So now they just
they got this whole thing where they say one thing,
these people don't do no research.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
They just go with it and believe.

Speaker 5 (21:09):
So they soft lunch on the Mexicans like you said,
the soft lunch on the Haitians, the soft lunch on
the Somalis ship.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
And they just tested it and.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Then come on us next, cot want us. They don't
forget that.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
Yeah, you see the other thing they switched.

Speaker 5 (21:28):
They went back on the second amendent thing, everything about
the second A member who break a gun to a protest,
like went zero for bringing mama, Yeah, mama got some believe. Now,
all of a sudden, you just named how many amendments
they break, And that's I don't know how many members
it is, but that sounds like.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
It's so deep.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
But that's what I write about in the book, Man book,
tell us about your book.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
This is my boy at my first legal thriller worse
than the line story.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
Now it's a fiction, but you know it's very similar
to try Vincent. That's what I was gonna say as
he was articulating about the bait and switch in the book.
You know they say fiction sometimes is parallel in fat
and you can't even imagine it. I was writing this
book five years ago. I was representing George Floyd and

(22:28):
Breonna Taylor's and I was doing an interview with Gail
King on Seabas Good Morning. And in the book it's
about this legal thriller, the civil rights legal thriller. You know,
we have all these brothers like John Grisham, your homeboy,
right about the Rainmaker, and then the Lincoln lawyer by

(22:49):
Michael Coley, Jed Firm, and then you got Perry Mason,
all these people white lawyd you. Okay, so we created
Anna wrote Black Law. We got this far to to
say no, no, we need young people thinking that, Nah,
I could be the hero civil rights lawyer. I ain't

(23:11):
gonna have a white lawyer coming save us. We can
save ourselves. And so in this book, this fictional lawyer,
Attorney Bowley Cooper and his team of social justice warriors
who you know, like our firm and stuff. We believe
in supporting us, because if we don't believe in us,
nobody will. So we opt to hire returning citizen. We

(23:33):
ought to hire people who they said wasn't good enough
for the Ivory Tower law firms to give them an opportunity.
People like me who got a chip on our shoulder.
We go in courtrooms every day and we always got
something to prove. I look forward to going against the
little white, blue bread Harvard educated lawyers and say, oh no,
they got the right, Negro, the right, the right be

(23:55):
ready to go. And so that's what Bolly represents. And
in this book, I mean, and it gets deep.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Don't give it away, but go ahead, it gets deep.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
And your question and then I'm gonna go deep on y'all.
But Gail King said during the interview, in the book
where Hollis Montrose, this black police officer is shot.

Speaker 3 (24:20):
Ten times by four white.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
Police officers, and she pointed out that Alex Peretti in
Minneapolis was shot ten times and just the irony of
it and the fact that there was video in Minneapolis
that we all saw, and then how the president and
everybody tried.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
To spend blame him just like this here.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
I mean, and this already talked about in the book,
how the system conspires to oppress the truth and try
to not only assassin that our person, but then assassin
of our character like George Floyd, like Trev Breonna Tatas.
And so we write about it in the book, and
the reviews have been coming back very powerful, because I

(25:10):
was intentional. Even when some of my editors didn't want
me to do this, they said, well, while you got
to place it on the night of President Obama's historic
election in two thous lady, and I did that intentionally, Chris.
I was very focused on trying to create this allegory
of events and characters, to have the setting where it

(25:34):
would create symbolic ideas like the election of the first
black president of the United States history, and then people
talking about, well, it's post racial America, we ain't gonna
have no need for civil rights.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
But on that very.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Night, these four white officers shoot this black man who
is a great person. I mean, they try to come
up oftentimes, y'all, and you know this colose, They will
try to assassinate the character, say, oh, well, you know
he was a convicted fellow, or he'd been arrested before,
or you know, an legal immigrant. They'll come up with something.

(26:16):
I said, I made the character Holls, my trops be
a police officer, I mean, flawless their thing.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
But it didn't.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
Matter because they didn't see him. They only saw a
projection of him, and in their mind Obama had just
become president, and they wanted to assert and show everybody
that no, no, it don't matter who in the White House,
we're still in control. And it was almost for shouting
because it was the pushback against the election of the
first president there. And so the book on top of

(26:46):
being a legal thriller with all the twist and turns
and you trying to get to truth in justice. I mean,
they shot him ten times, yet they charged him with
attempted murder and he's facing prison. And then this Vote Cooper,
lawyer from Houston, Texas, with his crew, come in and
they know early on, at the very beginning when they

(27:07):
start denying him bail and so forth, that to beat
this broken system, Bolee Cooper gonna need more than the
truth to prevail.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
And that's the scene.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
And it's like a few men and all that I
know but with a different flavor, because now you got
people lily like us as he rose and the coachre
on front Street in the courtroom, objecting.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Like any actions and got to be around Barack Obama.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
How did that? How did that look? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (27:37):
It is deep man, because you know President Obama, when
I was representing Trayvon Martin, you know, he came out
in the White House Rose Garden and said, if I
had a son, he would look like Trayvon. And the
case was already building. But when he did that, that
was the first time. People, you know, we expect now

(27:58):
presidents to talk about these social justice issues, but.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
They had never done that in America.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
Not even a US president had talked about Emmitt Till
and so forth. So when Barack Obama did that, you
knew that it was a watershed moment for America. And
so I wanted to remind America that this two thousand
and eight, even though we celebrated and it was a
moment of hope and progress for so many, for others,

(28:29):
it was you know, a line in the sand, and
it was the pushback. And it's what you said, now,
what we have happened in America now? And so I
wanted to tell them. I mean, bring those two convergent
things together. Obama elected black man brutally shot and so forth,
and how the systems told us loud and living color. No, No,

(28:53):
this ain't no post racial America. We going to need
civil rights lawyers, not more than ever. And that's what
we try to do with the book inspid the next generation,
just like books like to Kill a mocking Bird people.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
People.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
That's why I think we broke college from Mississippi. He
made me get into the Mississippi history even more with
like you said in matild case.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
Til case came about because t R. M. Howard made
and Ma till Mama come forward with the case. Right,
And Howard had.

Speaker 4 (29:24):
An insurance company, Mecca Elvis and fan of New Hammer
worked for Tim Howard.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
So we got some leaders. That's that's right there. But
we may not know it all the way right there there,
right And man, I'm just blown away brother about it. Yeah,
your historical accuracy talk about that's what he do. He
gonna he gonna, he's gonna.

Speaker 5 (29:45):
Look into some black history and he's gonna find out
and he's gonna share it with anybody.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
Who you know what I'm saying, yeah, he.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Love make up to the museum. Just argue the museum
what you said. And you know, and I love it, man,
because when I watched Dave Chappelle's specials and everything, and
you know his mother was an African American.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
History but.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Mombo and Kenya and everything, well congo right, you're right,
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
Get y'all in Kenya.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
But it's those type of things that if we can
find a way to entertained through the comedy but yet
still be teaching, man, that's how we win because we
got to figure out how to get to the young people.
Since they're trying to take black kid history out of
the school, we got to teach our history in other ways.
That's what and that's why that's why I'm you know

(30:49):
by South Baby, it's your time, man, I'm serious about.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
That they take black history.

Speaker 5 (30:54):
It's gonna be a problem because it was started adding
stuff to the story rose a parts of lou color food,
Come on, seven white men down and waiting for the police.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
Bb King making it up. We're gonna make it. We're
gonna make it. I want.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
What's your message to the next generation of young black professionals,
Because we don't get to hear from a lot of
our people who are in the position like a band crump,
like the next generation of lawyers, or like you said,
the graduates from the HBCUs Man. Sometimes all it take
is to just hear from somebody who've been there.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
Man, So what's your message to him?

Speaker 1 (31:37):
You know, my message is pretty straightforward. The future of
black people is not determined upon how white people treat us.
The future of Black people is not determined about how
white people support us. The future of black people is
not determined by how white people invest in us. The

(32:01):
future of black people is going to be determined by
how we treat each other. The future of Black people
is going to be determined on how we support each other.
The future of black people is going to be on
how we invest in each other, because right now we
have to build a strong black economic base. More than

(32:23):
anything else, y'all, more than anything we could be doing,
is supporting black business, trying to work with other black people,
trying to have eighty five style production company and.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
Then tell how to expand that.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Talking about black farmers and black grocery stores, black insurance agencies,
black mechanics, black dry cleaners, black law firms, black medical associations,
black doctors, black funeral homes. I mean supporting our own.
I mean telling each other when y'all sit around and
say that at least fifty percent of my money go

(32:59):
to black businesses, because we know the truths that in
the Asian community, their dollar circulates in their community twenty
four times before it leaves their community. Our Jewish sisters
and brothers, their dollar circulates in their community seventeen times
before it leaves the Jewish community.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
And they say, the black dollar stays.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
In our community seventeen minutes before we go give it
to the white community and everybody else. So the future
of black people, I say that all young professionals, we
got to support everything black and are we're gonna be perfect?

Speaker 3 (33:38):
No, but it ain't none of them perfect.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
But we are so quick to criticize black people and
black businesses and black associations, and it's just crabbing.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
The bucket mentality.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
And that's what they're counting on now more than ever,
especially with this misinformation that's out there on the Internet
and social media. They're trying to keep us attacking each other.
Just dramatic stuff like when we first started talking about
They want us to just be stupid, sick and broke.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
And so that's how we get by by starting to
build our community. Because when the money stays in our community,
then we can support our black colleges, we can support
our black schools, we can support our black children health care, our.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Black children have an access to capital.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
I mean, once we start supporting our own, then you
can be like the Jewish community. You can be like
the Indian community. All these people they don't look for
white people to come in. They don't look for government intervention.
They said, no, no, we got everything we need within ourselves.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
Like new Jack Cidy. You remember when see them be
saying we'll self contained unit.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
We all, we all, we got that. Wait a minute,
we went from third good b.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
Legal system.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Bring it was American.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
Brown? Wasn't she at his real estate? He took home
in the car?

Speaker 5 (35:19):
Holldo holdol hold on?

Speaker 3 (35:23):
Made? The problem is cash? Find it? Hold on you?

Speaker 5 (35:29):
I just live a movie fans, Yes, sir, this sounds
like you know what I'm saying. Something might be in
the I'm just saying. If it was a scene where
eighty five so I was on there talking about what
happened with the character.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
I don't know that. I just that's something that just taste.
I just threw it out of that. You know, it's
just not I guess you know, you know something.

Speaker 4 (35:54):
Give last time, last time I went to court, though, man,
you know, because a lot of time we go to court,
we'd be seeing the same the same judges and and
then return to judge.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
He the same criminals. But sometimes they get us mixed up.

Speaker 4 (36:11):
Last time I walked down court, judge and didn't I
tell you, don't come in my courtroom again. You come
in my court and get my told I'm sending you
to jail. I said, Man, I ain't even in here
for court today.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
I'm here with my cousin. Niggas. Damn you in that
dress he gave my cousin five years foot. Take it
like that. But that's just all I had to say
about that.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
Well, even though I know it's human that it has
track here, it's a lot of truth in it, you know.
Richard Pryor said, back when he was U in the
seventies and his comedy albums, I went down to the
court room looking for just us. That's all I found,

(36:48):
you know. So it's still the same today. But you know,
we can we can help the situation. I mean, I'm
black American's attorney general and I try to use the
platform I got to tell black people, man, you got
to uh engage in jury service.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
Jerry Dudy hell Man.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
They brought me down there for Jerry Dude the one
time talking about a double murdered man.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Know me, that was the only got my name.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Yes, you gotta let me go.

Speaker 5 (37:33):
You know, when they asked them questions, I ain't gonna like,
do you have any any conflict interests?

Speaker 3 (37:38):
Police? I said, if you.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Let me say this in all seriousness, now, in all seriousness,
we need you on that jury because the hardest thing
in the world to do as a black lawyer is
to go in the courtroom and with your black client,
June Bug, that's your and everything else in the courtroom

(38:05):
is white except the judge's role and expect that you're
gonna get equal justice. And you know, when you just
got one black person on the jury, just one black
person on the jury, it changes the whole compensation when
they deliberate people. You know, we've been blessed, man, We
we got we got we.

Speaker 5 (38:24):
Know some huge burdens white people is going to court
and all the druids were black.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
And exactly, boy, exactly, I ain't never even think about
it a black from my own gabbler.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
That for y'all state, mister STIFFI Alabama where we got
the majority.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
Oh man, if black people showing up the jury, dude,
they could do it.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Because I'm telling y'all, man, I go in courtrooms and
God be with us, because sometimes I'm just looking at
all white jury and I'm like, man, how can I
make them understand the life experiences of this black person,
the coach of this black person, you know, the loss
and the emotions of this black family's loss. And I

(39:15):
have to jump over hurdles to try to make sure
that these.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
White probably Fox News watchers.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
Can give equal respect and equal dignity to a George
Floyd or Breonna Taylor, mard Obby.

Speaker 3 (39:32):
And God has.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Mike Brown, Yeah, and Mike Brown father, Mike Brown Senior
Lanley makes fatteren. I mean the fact if you can
have black jurors looking at that situation, it.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
Makes all the difference in the world. Man.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
And so we just got to show up and people
say black lives matter where it's really your time. If
you're in that courtroom and you one of those. In
most cases six jurors, and then if it's a capital
case where somebody can spend life in prison, it's twelve jurors.
But if you are in that courtroom and you one
of them, you can make all the difference in the world.

(40:12):
For Mike Brown, you can make all the difference in
the world. For Trey Vine, you can make all the
difference in the world, for Sandra Bland, all these people. Man,
can you imagine if you were in the jury box
and when they was talking about, you know, Zimmerman killing
Tray Vine.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
With your message but he did.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
I'm just saying you could be back there educating the
white folks. You can hate the jury and be like, nah,
we ain't send that black man to jail. Other day,
Yeah exactly. I mean it's power that we have if
we just would, man, we go into the court room

(40:52):
and Cliff Jon know we sending the court room black
people do everything and their.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
Power to get off the jury.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
I mean, look, the problem is our white sisters and
brothers they doing everything and they power to be on
the jury. They like no, no, no, this to day
we're gonna make America great. We're gonna be on this jury,
and I want us black people to have the same result. No,
we gonna make sure our people get justice today.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
I wanted to ask you this.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Any you represent a lot of high profile cases, do
any of those cases disturb you want like more than
the other or it's just the same feeling all across
the board, like that's that your blad one? That one
really was disturbing because we still don't know what happened
to her.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
There's so many of a man that are so troubling
to your soul. You know, Trey Vine would have been
thirty one years old, yes.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
Lord, man playing yeah man yesterday.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
Yeah, it's a whole life that we remember when he
was didn't happen, I's a whole another fifteen years, just
like that.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
Man in twenty twelve.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Man, And I often think, man, what would have come
of Trayvon Benjamin Martin had he been able to live
his life out? What would have come of Brionna Taylor?
That sister was doing all the right stuff. I mean,
she was doing everything, both of them. Jean, Yeah, I
remember the brother who got here by the white policewoman

(42:22):
who came into his apartment and it was hers. He
eating ice cream, mining his business, she shooting killed him,
and then hold a self defense and people try to
have sympathy for her even though she killed this man
in his own place. And he was a certified public
accountant at twenty three years old. I mean, how much

(42:42):
a future he had? I write it was, man, those
things trouble you so much. Man, that these young people
who could have been your sister, your brother, you know,
taking away Tyree Nichols in Memphis. I mean, and so
all these cases matter, every.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
One of them.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
And you know, I was going to say we were blessed.
You know, we got the record for the highest amount
ever paid out in what we call a compensatory case
for a wrong with that I wind seven hundred and
eighty million dollars and so forth. And I think a

(43:26):
lot of that had to do. We had three blacks
on the jury. It matters, It matters, mister.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
I can tell you this right here.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
When I first came up here today, my friend told
me that man, all right, when you talk to him
now you see him just on TV with everybody else,
but he is an educated man. He went through the
process he then took the bar. You are a lawyer
for real. So that's why I wanted to We wanted
to get your respect on that.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
But I wanted to ask you too, like why was
it so hard for black people.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
Black people had to have an apprentice to even.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
Be a lawyer.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
We couldn't even just go in law school like that too.
You know, we have to be careful because the passes prologue.
You know, they didn't want The whole reason they have
the barxam is because the persons side Carolina came up
with a way to try to keep blacks from becoming lawyers.
And you remember in Shakespeare's play Henry the Third, the
first thing they said is kill all the lawyers. Yep,

(44:19):
because if we didn't have the lawyers, nobody interpret the
law tyranny and you know, injustice can reign free. And
so if black people ain't got no black lawyers, then
they could just beat us anything. And now you see
this attack on d I like it's a bad word
and everything trying to help get black people equity, not

(44:41):
just equality, because there's a big difference between equality and equity.
Equality you know, is just saying we giving everybody equal
chances and everything. Equity is taking an account that they
got a four hundred year head start. You know that
we built this country for free. We didn't get our
four the acres in the mute and so forth, so
we got to account for that, and that's what we

(45:01):
talk about equity. But now they are trying to say,
now we don't want anything that gives black or brown
people a chance to have an equal playing field. And
so now we are going to properly see less people
het professional degrees like doctor's degrees and engineering degrees and

(45:22):
law degrees than we did twenty five thirty years ago.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
I mean, our children, this generation today, we.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
Won't get as many black lawyers today as we got
twenty five years ago by the laws that they're pushing,
because they understand when you give a little black boy
from Limington, North Carolina, being crupp a law degree, man,
look what that negro could do.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
They can go win the money.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Yeah, you know, and that's the thing that they I
think they don't want an equal playing field.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
That's what they don't want.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
Don't They scared to compete fairly with that right? And
that's what I think it's always been about. Because they
saw when you had the Martin Luther King's with the
oratorical skills, you had the third Good Marshalls with the
legal skills. You know, you had all these black inventors
were so little be able to achieve so much. You

(46:19):
saw the sisters with NASA and everything.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
How they knew their.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
Contributions they not even just contributions, the stuff that we
do with underniables deal literally have Yeah, especially when we
come together.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
Think about George Washington cover there in Tuskege, Alabama.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
Many Booker t had that.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Yeah, and how you know Henry Ford and them were
trying to get George Washington Carver away because he was
that brilliant and thank god he said, I might have principles.
Now I'm trying to educate the next generation of black people.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
You got enough money, Henry Ford? Yeah, yeah, man enough.
That's real. Though, Why is.

Speaker 4 (47:04):
It so hard for police officers to get prosecuted on video?

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Thanks for bringing us back to the book. Nah.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
You know, in the book we talk about how they try,
the system tries to come up with what I call
the intellectual justification of discrimination. And to a larger point,
it's what Martin Luther King said in his letter from
the Birmingham jail when he said, you know, everybody remember

(47:34):
injustice anywhere, threatened justice everywhere. But I thought it was
more profound when he said, just because they tell us
it's legal, that don't make it right, because you know,
they start trying us say slavery, legal segregation. Everything Hitler
did to the Jews in Germany was legal. Everything that

(47:55):
happened to Emmitt tell they said it was legal. So
when they tell us it's legal, that don't make could
write so this thing qualified immunity, this assumption that when
the police act in the color of law, we first
have to give him the rebuttable presumption that what they
were doing was legal, and then we have to prove

(48:16):
that whatever this I mean, it's still don't make any
tried to make them innocent by saying if they had
a subjective belief that somebody was gonna put them in
feel their life, not an objective belief, but a subjective
and fear in my mind, And think about all these

(48:40):
qualified immunity cases. Man, when you think about Eric Garneer
being choking and so forth, they're like, oh, well, justify
because they fear that he was going to harm the
police yeah, this whole theory of the bit scary black
person Michael Brown and Ferguson running away from the copy
they shoot them and everything, and qualified immunity because in

(49:01):
his mind he said, Mike Brown could hear yeah, I mean,
And so qualified community is just intellectual justification for discrimination.
It's just like the standard ground laws and everything the
subjective feels. And that's what made Trey vonn such a
I think phenomenon black people.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
As bad as it was.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
We had got used to police kill our children, and
they for the most part get away with it.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
But now we'll stand your ground.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
It was our lord that said any Tom Dicker, Harry Citizen,
he was killed our children and then say oh, I
felt to fill my life and go home and sleep
in their bed at night. And so that's what this
qualified immunity is about. It's trying to say, well, you
gotta try to put yourself in the shoes of the
police officer. You can't be objective with all this video

(49:54):
stuff we see say no, nah, he wasn't in fit,
he just killed that man.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
How you when you got phone numbers? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (50:01):
How you infeel when you got a whole toolb belt
full of weapons? And everything we say, he feel because
somebody said, in the name of Jesus, yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Oh my God, with the master man, Yeah, the family, No,
saw your master you know you're talking about cases that's troubling.
She called the police for help, She called for help.
She wasn't committing no crime or anything. And and my investigator,
Cliff Jones, and I thank god, we got as full

(50:33):
of justice as we can get for her. And I
always say a measure of justice because true justice would
be her not being shot and.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
Killed in the brig place.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
But we we were able to get a ten million
dollar civil settlement, which was the most for any black
per woman in the state of Illinois. Then we got
the saw your massive law pass. Okay, that stays that
a police officer when they come to god interview for

(51:03):
the job, that it must be revealed, all of the complaints,
all the other complaints of excessive force gott to be
known and so forth, because remember this guy had went
through six jobs in four years. He kept getting fired
different police every different police agents.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
Yeah, and you you're right man. And then saw your Massy.
Uh you know, the jury we thought it should be
first degree murder because you remember he shot her when
she said, I rebuke you in.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
The name of Jesus.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
He said, oh, no, hell you want, I'll shoot you
in your fm face And then he stepped around the
counter and shot her in her face, which she said
it the second time. And the jury came back and
convicted him of second degree murder, and we thought it
should be first degree, but the judge did something just

(51:58):
uh whether the last week, Cliff, last week, the judge
gave him the maximum and very rarely do police get
the maximum sentence. The judge gave him the maximum sentence
that they could get. And y'all, it's sad, how.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
Twenty years.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
It's sad though, y'all because a brother we can get
twenty years for selling marijuana, you know. And so that's
the thing that we got to keep fighting for. The
struggle is never over. The struggle continues. And that's why
I want everybody to get the book. Worse than a
lie And the reason seriously though, y'all, my grandmother taught

(52:42):
me when I was a little boy.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
She said, what's worse than a lie?

Speaker 1 (52:47):
That is to tell the truth. Lord, they have nobody
believe you. Can you imagine how many young brothers and
black sisters have to go in courtroom and lie on
themselves and take these plea deals, because if they don't,
the alternative could be they be convicted of a trumped
up charge. And I do mean a trumped up charge

(53:07):
that put them in prison for the better part of
their lives. And so that's what we talk about. Worse
than a lot because we get in here. You see,
that is so much worse than whatever you could think
of what actually goes into court owned in the courtroom.
Like third good marsh you said, most people will never
really know what happens in a courtroom. That's why he

(53:30):
said he wrote his briefs and his legal memois to
be so engaging, to try to educate the public at large. Well,
what could be more engaging than a legal thriller, And
so that's what I said. Now we're gonna write about
a black superhero lawyer, not like all these white superher lawyers.
Gotta be watch somebody who killed somebody who we can

(53:51):
all identify with, somebody who came from the hood and
came from country towns like this. He got returning sit
people being in the prison, people who went to community colleges,
working on the team and they just as smart as
all the white people.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
I want to ask you this, because we're right here
in Georgia. Are you familiar with the Kendrick Johnson King
Very much, man, very familiar with it? Ludicrous?

Speaker 3 (54:21):
Yeah, that man.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Well, my question was, it's like, you know, it's a
mystery to a lot of people who outside Georgia.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Can I say this here? And I know y'all know
Ricky Hughes too, great sister. She's an absolute secutive producer
a podcast that we're gonna start doing call Unresolved, and
it's looking at cases like you know, Kendrick, looking at
cases like Sandra b.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
Alabama.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
It's those type of cases where people got killed in
very highly questionable ways in America, just swepping under the rug,
and we're saying no, we're going to try to get
some solution and re examine all these matters. And so
I know Ricky Hughes is a phenomenal system when it
comes to promoting comedy and stuff. I think we worked

(55:09):
for eighty five hours Dave Chappelle. But she's also, like
we said, we got to keep evolving using all our talents.
She's gonna help us with this legal podcast that helps
these families be able to examine the truth of what
really happened.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
To let them know where the book is available and
how they can reach.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
Out and all of that. I appreciate that. Cam.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
Yeah, it's available everywhere. I want to thank the thousands
of people we've already pre ordered it. I mean, render House,
the largest publishing company in the world, are blown away
by the sales even before it comes out on February seventeenth, Amazon, Barns,
and Noble, independent Black bookstores. It's everywhere because you know,

(55:58):
this is our super he wrote, Lawyer Boli Cooper is
our law. You're gonna be for us, our black ego
of Jessic this book. It's my first novel. I wrote
a book called Open Season, the Legalized Genocide of Colored People,
that looked at all those cases like Tray Vine and
Mike Brown's case and so forth. But this is a

(56:19):
fiction that we believe it's going to be turned into
a movie and so forth. And I think it's gonna
be one of those things kind of like Pair of
Mason that outlive us.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
You know I'm selling you're.

Speaker 5 (56:30):
Interested in doing more novels, and yeah, I think you're
gonna We're gonna do more and they're gonna have more
roles for.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
Let's let's go uber driving man look situ where you
need to go? Now, Look, it can be any number
of people, but it's.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Boldly and he got like a great cast. He got
a Puerto Rican associate lawyer. That's gonna be good for
a sister out there.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
He got his.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Investigators, his partners and everything. You got the person gonna
play the black police officers. So I could think of
any number of people. Man, uh don Cheeterah would be great,
indest Ebba, you know Herscheli Lee, Marsh Chestnert uh Uh
you know Tammahall thought, Michael B. Jordan's it's gonna be

(57:31):
just great characters for people of color to play his
historic heroic roles.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Like a black pair of Mason. You have a step
into that role. Man.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
It's gonna have movie after movie after movie.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
We got this so much content.

Speaker 5 (57:49):
Because we got it like on the detective side with
the easy rollers exactly, Yeah, to get it on that
legal side. Looking forward to her.

Speaker 4 (58:00):
Yeah, the only thing the only thing that never mind
me of begging that you're a lawyer so you would
know is the closest thing to it. It would be
that we had a black sheriff, you know, back in
the day. Lucius Emerson. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. Read
that would be like more like like around the slavery time.
But Lucius Emerson, this is like around the nineteen sixties.
But one of my friends, my cousins, was the first

(58:22):
woman charged with voter fraud and named Maggie.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Bolzman, doctor County, right, yeah, Higgins County.

Speaker 4 (58:27):
Usually don't like to talk about People have to make
me talk about talk about that.

Speaker 6 (58:33):
But it's important, it's important.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
But is that because Maggie it was the first note.

Speaker 4 (58:45):
She was the first person charged with voter fraud in
the country, And I don't think everybody knows that without
that case, right now, that's what made that's what made
Ronald Reagan pushed forward the Voters Right Act because Maggie
went to jail for it and she ended up get
released to the custody of a man named Lucius Emerson.
Lucius Amberson is the black police share up that end
up killing other clue cus klansmen.

Speaker 3 (59:06):
Uh huh, literally you know what I'm saying. So we're
working on a movie about that. Damn right, goddamn.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
Respect you know, they voting rights under attack. So I
think you know, we talk about what they're saying. They're
gonna try to have ice people showing up at the
post in November, they will directly Yeah, Well, if they
got twenty ice people at the post, we got to
come up with twenty five hundred black people saying no,
we're gonna vote. That's what we mean by being strategic

(59:40):
and fighting united.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Look, anytime we get somebody high claim stopped through here,
we gotta get them to sign the table.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
Man, you ain't no exception. I appreciate you. We got
you a cool spot right here. Right. We ain't got
to worry about nobody writing over it. We got any
questions in the room, right, I got the power. Okay,
how do you how do you measure success?

Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
I mean, we see the money of the settlements and
then we got to on your master bills pass. But
what other ways do you measure success when you do
win a case for our people?

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
No, I think you hit it right on the nails.
The real wind is when it benefits more than just
the individual or the individual family.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
When you have us saw your master.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
You know the George Floyd Justice and Police and Act
never was able to get cross the finish line on
the federal level because they got so much political gridlock
going on that you can't get anything done on the
federal level. But do you all know over a hundred
cities and states past George Floyd laws saying that you

(01:00:50):
couldn't do the chokehold, you couldn't put the knee restraint anymore.
And so those are the victories every time we could
slow down them from killing another sister brother. You know,
when I do all these banking while black discrimination cases
and so forth, where now they have to pay two
hundred three hundred million dollars to black people who they

(01:01:11):
denied loans to, denied mortgages too, and now the bank
gives more economic opportunities to black businesses. Those are the wins.
You know, the case with Herod of lax where you
know the yeah yeah, and so you know, these pharmaceutical
companies made billions and billions and billions of dollars and

(01:01:33):
her black family didn't get not one red cent until
we sued in twenty nineteen, and for the first time
in twenty twenty one, we were able to get the
first pharmaceutical company to pay here of the lacks family
or some compensation for her. He'll of sales that have
been the cornerstone of every medicine, every you know BAC

(01:01:56):
scene in the last sixty years open. I did that
movie in the movie, and now they're doing a documentary
on our legal cases because now we're up to the
fifth pharmaceutical company having to pay millions of dollars to
her family.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
I consider dot a win. That is a win immediately
she got the eg is that what it is she got?
If I, if I can't for just a moment, you
take your turn.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Henry of Lax was a victim of medical racism that
was just running rapid in America in.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
The nineteen fifties.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
The Tuskegee, Yes, you had the Tueskegee Syphilis ex spear
Miss where they ingested the black men were syphilis and
then cured them even though they had a cure, and
they let it proliferate and linger for over four decades,
where they went and had relations with the women gave
them syphiless and then their children were born with syphiless.

(01:03:00):
And the government, not the people just in Alabama, the
US government, they always try to say it's the South.
Now America itself was racist to the car when they
just let it happen. Wanted to say, well, what would
happen to the human body if the siphilis was never treated?
People went blind, people lost, you know, raised, people died,

(01:03:23):
and they just watched.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
And then you had the mississick and then you had.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
The Mississippi appadectomy, and your homes exactly where the women
would go in for a routine, take her and they
would sterilize them, you know, make them where they can't
have children. The most famous band the Sipper race activist
Fanny Lou Haimer.

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
They said, I'm sick and tired of being sick and die.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
I mean, at twenty three years old, they gave her
the appidectomy where she can't have children. But because she
was educating, resourceful, she went and was the first one
to blow the whistle that they were doing this to
black women, not only Mississippi, but in Alabama, Georgia Tennis.
I mean, they was trying to keep it from having
people like us baby kids being.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
Able to recreate.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
And then you had the black soldiers with the gas mask.
They would give them faulty gas masks, put them in
the gas chambers, and watch their skin bubble, I.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Mean just eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
And then in Baltimore, Maryland, man JOHNS Hopkins Hospital, the
number one medical research institute in America at the time,
was trying to find out if the human cell could
survive outside the human body.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
God. And we don't know how many.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
Black people they killed before they got the herod of lax.
When we were doing the research for the case, man,
you had old black people who said that our parents
told us when we were children, don't get caught at
night John Hopskin's Hospital, because they'll snatch up and cut
on you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
They're expeariment on it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
They were the original body snatches, snatching up our people.
And so when they came to Herod. The lexis thirty
one year old, beautiful wife and mother. She had five
children and she had the early stages of cervical cancer.
They never treated her, even though it was very treatable.
She went there and they put radiation rids in her

(01:05:29):
female organs. Now y'all understand chemotherapy, man, They give.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
You chemo therapy when you know your body.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
Because and they do that trying to reduce the tumor
to the smallest amount.

Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
So when they have to use radiation.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
They can use the least amount possible because radiation is
so hardful to the potentially fatal tod and so they
didn't care about that were black people. They put radiation
rides in her female organs, spread it open, they went
a cut a piece of the cancer celle, cut a
piece of her health to sell, and.

Speaker 3 (01:06:04):
Then sent her home the next day.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
And it's sad man because she lived eight more months
and her family talking about how she would scream out
and pain an agony in the middle of the night
from the effects of the radiation. And it's almost biblical,
y'all because what she had sacrifice to give the world
this incredible gift, because she became the first person in

(01:06:31):
the course of human history whose sales were not only
able to survive outside of the human body, but they
would regenerate every twenty four hours. And so you had
a situation literally where it's her healer cells. Scientists could
come and experiment on the healer sales. Now I have
the experiment on the human body. And that's how they

(01:06:53):
would figure out the vaccines for h PV and dealing
with COVID, and dealing with ays, and I mean all.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
These came from her genetic materials.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
And so when we were in the courtroom, argon that
pharmaceutical companies had the audasketed to say, mister Crump must
be crazy to think that he can bring a sixty
year old case. I mean, how do And then we
objected and they said, no, no, we can't disparage any
person in the courtroom.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
Mister Crumper's officer of the court. We're not gonna call
him crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
But the judge said, federal judge, well, mister Crump, how
do you plan on getting around the statue of limitations?
Because statue of limitations and mostly every state is two three,
four years. If you don't bring the lawsuit, then you're
forever barred. And you remember hearing of lax They did
this budget her in nineteen fifty one, and here we

(01:07:49):
are in twenty twenty bringing this lawsuit with her family.
And it was you had all the rich white pharmaceutical
companies on one side of all these black Baltimore is
and if y'all been to Baltimore, we was on the
other side of the courtroom and they said, well, attorney Crump,
do you have a response how you plan to get

(01:08:10):
around the statue of limitations, And I said, well, your Honor,
I absolutely do you know all morning in this courtroom
we've talked about here where the lacks being unprecedented, there's
never been anybody like her. I mean, she is a miracle.
I mean it's a medical mystery how her sales continue

(01:08:33):
to regenerate every day literally, And so I get it
if from nineteen fifty one to twoenty eighteen her family
is not entitled to a percentage of any of those
profits because it's outside the statute of limitations. But your Honor,

(01:08:54):
just as I have articulated this morning, and our experts
have articulated that.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
Hear, we are the.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
Lack sales regenerate every twenty four hours. So those sales
that regenerated yesterday, we said, we got a percentage all
those profits and the prophets going far, Yeah, and we
want them.

Speaker 5 (01:09:17):
Crum is a smart hey man, I like, if she
the only person with regenerating sales, you talk about statute
of limitations, Hey, yeah, that's the sale time. Yeah, ye say,
we got a new statue of the medic start over.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
And so that's that's what we're doing. And they're making
a documentary about that because remember even in the book
that they wrote that open based the movie on. They
said in the book her family would never recover, and
that underscores and it's a good way to end it.
That underscores why we need black lawyers like Polk coopering Crump.

Speaker 3 (01:09:55):
Extorting their things that they say, we think like you did,
turning big trouble.

Speaker 5 (01:10:02):
And close the arguments on the fire on the fly.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
Comes through here, but you more than welcome to step
through any time.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
Man five second being crumped, were out of here.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
Bigs my cash