June 18, 2026 • 59 mins
In Part 2 of The Opera Ranger, Alicia Kozak continues her conversation with child exploitation investigator and opera singer Will Britt, exploring the challenges of protecting children, confronting evil, and maintaining hope in the face of unimaginable darkness. Will shares the cases that shaped his career, the rescue that reinforced his purpose, and how music, compassion, and connection help him support survivors and earn the trust of victims. Filled with powerful stories, humor, and hard-earned wisdom, this episode offers an inspiring look at resilience, service, and the people who dedicate their lives to protecting others.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome back to the Alicia Coza Podcast. If you've already
listened to part one of Will's story, you know that
it was everything I said it would be. It was
heartbreaking and it was inspiring, It was dark, and it
was funny. It had all of the complicated pieces that
live inside of this work and inside of the people
who choose to do it. We talked about what he
has seen in his work as a NYCAC officer and
the way it all lands on a human being who
(00:25):
was just trying to do the next right thing and
trying to save the world. And then right in the
middle of all of that heaviness, Will's phone right it
was his wife. He picked it up, said hi baby,
and for a second you could just feel the whole
room shift. That little moment is actually why I didn't
(00:47):
want to just quietly fade into part two, because this
is what real life looks like for the people who
do this work. There are brutal days, and there are
hilarious stories. There is trauma, and there's so much purpose,
and threaded through all of it are the relationships that
make it survivable. So in the second part of Will's episode,
we pick up right where we left off, and then
(01:07):
we go deeper, deeper into the people who hold him up.
We'll talk about his wife, his family, the mentors, and
the teammates who showed up at exactly the right time,
and how those connections help shape the officer he is today.
We'll talk about one of those moments too that sounds
almost impossible until you actually hear it from him, how
(01:28):
singing the theme song from a popular children's TV show
helped a victim of a horrendous crime feel safe enough
to speak up. It's one of those stories that reminds
you that sometimes the smallest, strangest, most humane moments can
become the doorway to something so much bigger. We talk
about what it means to be supported while you're carrying
things that most people thankfully never have to see, and
(01:50):
what it looks like to try to be okay for
the people you love when you come home from a
day that was anything but okay. If Part one was
about what Will does and what he has been through,
part two is really about who he is and who
has stood decide him. So let's get back into it.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, one second, a sweetheart, no baby, I'm good, Thank
you though, but you're okay, okay, cool, we're we're on
the podcast, but that's it's all recorded, so I don't
you're fine, You're fine, Alice, Yeah, hi baby, I love
you your five baby love you.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
But but yeah, you two are so cute.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
And the fact that she's a judge and that she
knows the space too, that has to I would, I
would imagine be comforting that she can understand and that
you understand her bad days too.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yes, So there will be times where now I will say,
I don't get super into detail about my stuff with
her because I'm not trying to ruin her day too.
But I'm able to talk with her somewhat about it.
But it is it is at least nice to have
(03:09):
somebody that I can at least somewhat relate to. Does
that make sense? So if I bring up a frustration
in the legal field, she can definitely understand what I'm
getting at.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
So yeah, and she probably allows you time to not
answer to that. If you say I had a bad day,
it's not ooh, tell me I can make it better.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
It's okay, Well I'm not going to go there.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
So she refers to when I come home. How I
kind of alluded to when I'm an ice box when
I come home. She refers to that as my thawing
out period. And to give you a good example, I
had a pretty rough day. I had seen some stuff
that was unusually jarring, and I came home. I walk
(03:56):
up to her, I kiss her, so I'm letting her
know I'm here, but I don't say a word. I
walk past her after kissing her, go upstairs, take a shower,
and then like sit on the bed and veg out
on my phone for like an hour.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I then come downstairs and on the TV is Power
Rangers and a plate of dinner is waiting for me. Oh,
I am talking about being blessed. My wife is also
one of the amazing blessings that I have been given
(04:36):
that Lord knows I don't deserve by any stretch of
the term.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, that's amazing to have that support because the work
can be so dark and so lonely, and that nobody
really understands what you're going through, and a partner sometimes
really want to help and fix and do things, and
it's beautiful that she gives you that space. But she's
also like kind of sliding things under the door and
(05:03):
being like, here you go, I'm helping you come out
when you're ready.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Yeah. Absolutely, And.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Then so I tried to take it back to her
as well, because of course you'll have bad days as well,
which she might have some cases that might hit her
a little harder than some other times. So yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
So you talked about having a hard day, and you've
talked about that a couple of times. So it sounds
like you have unfortunately a lot of bad days and
a lot of hard days at your job. But can
you tell me about one moment that made you think, like,
this is why I do what I do? What's that
like where you high fived everybody? What is that win
in your mind? Maybe even that first win?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
So I had a case it was actually the case
of Mimmy fall in Love KAC. I was SVU back
at Carberland County and ultimately we got a report that
somebody there was some unrecognized photos. So pretty much there's
they have a database, the NICKNACK, the National Center of
(06:07):
Mistexploited Children, has a database of known child pornography. Unfortunately,
that's millions of files large, and there was some that
weren't so they're like, oh, this is a problem. Ultimately,
what that led us to find out is that there
was a little girl who was being trafficked by her
mother to a local man in the area. And yeah,
(06:33):
my co workers were absolutely amazing. We were able to
track where this little girl was and we did an
emergency search. One we hit the house and I'm me
and my me and my buddy are where the first
ones day at the house, we you know, knocked out police,
(06:54):
share whatever. I can't remember when I said it was
eight years ago. Open up, blah blah blah. Door opens up,
and I see the little girl that was.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
In the photos, and that's the first time that's happened.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Absolutely and out loud, I said, oh my god, it's
the girl from the photos. And my partner was like,
let's get her out of here and go. So we
all stormed in, took you know, immediately seize the home
and began processing, you know, to actually conduct the investigation.
(07:29):
The mother admitted to offending on the child herself. The
mother admitting to allowing the gentleman to offend on the
child even with her right there as well, and they
both offended on the child at the same time. It
was a lot, it had been going on for a
(07:50):
few years. So thankfully we were able to put a
stop to it. But during the search, during the search warrant,
when the interview and everything was done and we were
kind of processing everything, the people who were watching the
child came up to me and said, Hey, she's not
(08:11):
doing well. Talk about the kid like, she's not doing well.
Is there any way you can go in there and
cheer her up? Hey, you sing and you know the
Pokemon theme song? She loves Pokemon? Can you sing that
for her? So this was another instance where I said
I'm blessed with the people.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
I work with.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I turned request Yeah. I turned around and I looked
at everybody else that was on the search warrant. They
stopped everything they were doing and said, go take care
of her. So I walked in reintroduced myself because the
last time she saw me, I was the towering the
towering Sheriff's detective that came into her home. I reintroduced
(08:55):
myself and I said, by the way, I hear you
like Pokemon. She said yes, and I immediately started singing
the Pokemon theme song.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
How does that go?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
So let's see, I want to be the very best,
like no one ever was to catch them is my
real test to train them as my call. I will
travel all across the land searching for and wad it's Pokemon,
(09:27):
to understand the power that's inside Pokemon. Got it, catch
them ball.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
So you're saying it, did you sing it loud.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Like that or did you No? No, it was much
louder like I did the full blown opera like Bam.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
She has a beautifully powerful song. I've never heard the
lyrics really to that.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Oh no, it's actually a really inspiring song. But it is.
In fact, I don't know if you could tell, but
this is a Pokemon shirt, so that's butterfree and these
are Pokemon poke balls that are the buttons. So I
was saying that for the little girl, she had a blast.
Next thing, I know, she was bouncing off the walls
(10:13):
and yeah, the whole environment changed when we were able
to arrest the guy and the mom and make sure
this child got into safe hands. That made me fall
in love with Ikeak And that was the big.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
For me.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Obviously I had other ones, like I had good confessions,
I had other stuff like that, but it was the saving,
the active stuff going on that was a big thing
for me.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Wow, I don't think people think of law enforcement in
that way ever. Really, I think that paints such a
different image. Which is what I want to do with
this podcast too, is I want to show the people
who fight to protect kids as people.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
As we've talked a couple of times.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Too, I want to show that human side too, And
what a beautiful thing to have done. In my presentations
when I speak to law enforcement. That's one thing that
I talk about, actually is how we need to be
in the room with the victim as who they are
and what they need in that moment, not necessarily getting
the questions out, not making this and not doing that.
(11:30):
You are not necessarily in charge of the energy.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
In that room. The victim is.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
And you met her right where she was, and she
must have felt so so seen, And as you've said,
everybody wants to feel seen, and she has been seen
in the most disgusting, awful ways that have taken It
sounds like her humanity and her right to her body
(11:56):
and her safety and her security by those who should
love and protect her most. And you stepped in and
saved her but with what was important to her.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
It's beautiful. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I had a case where we ended up getting a
pretty bad cyber tip came in. It's like, oh my god,
there's potentially active abuse going on right now. We got
to go, and it was on a Friday afternoon. I
got a phone call, Hey, you do not have to come,
(12:33):
but you're more than welcome to. And I was like, hell, yeah,
let's go on the way there, and it was about
a two and a half hour drive. On the way there,
the guy I was with was calling all of his
coworkers who are now my coworkers, and said, Hey, this
is what we got. They all said the same thing
to him. No, no, no, don't worry about it. Just tell
us about it when we get there. That is on
(12:54):
a Friday afternoon. Wow, I don't like that dedication. And absolutely,
and then thankfully, thankfully, it was a it was a
no child was in danger or anything along that line.
But we ended up running into a lot of drugs.
There a lot of drugs. We ended up coming into
a grow house and well, we're there for the kids,
(13:19):
we weren't there. We weren't there for the drugs. So
we ended up calling the local sheriff's office and they
were like, absolutely, we'll come out and we'll take custody
of the stuff and okay, so they came out, did
their own search once so they could legally seize everything.
They seized it, and uh yeah, moved on. Next day,
there was a huge press release from this agency and
(13:42):
they put out like, you know, we came across this
huge grow operation blah blah blah blah blah, and like
touted it. And that's great because they did. The SBI
was not mentioned even once. And I remember looking at
my supervisor and again this was I'm still not necessarily
with the SBI at this point, but I'm working with
(14:03):
him as a TFA, so a task force agent, And
I was like, does that bother you? And he looks
at me and he goes, why would it? Kids are safe?
I got no issue, what's wrong? And that blew my mind.
So that was another moment where I was like, I
(14:24):
need to be a part of this. This is amazing.
I want this because it's so mission focused. But at
the same time, everybody it's just this weird thing because
most of the time when you see different types of
things like this, you tend to see either one mission
focused or two individual focused, right, So you tend to
see one or the other.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
This is the.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Potentially the only time I've ever seen them both at
an equal measure, and it's amazing. No questions asked, no
questions asked.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
It's really just about the kids. It's not about the
promotion or the shiny trophy or the story being in
the big newspaper.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
It's really just did a child get saved?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Then we're good. Was there no child in danger? No,
no children were in danger? Okay, Well then let them
do what they want.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
I could see how that would be so inspirational on
how you'd want to be a part of that. I
feel like listeners right now might be like, Wow, I
want I want to join in this fight, and I
hope people do. I hope this inspires people to join
that fight and in the side fighting for good.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Yeah wow Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Purpose is so special, and it seems like you really
have a handle on yours and it has to be
one of the things that gets you through these really
dark days that you mentioned, because not every day can
be a high five and a win, right. There has
to be those cases that go totally sideways and backwards
(16:14):
and upside down and you get a terrible outcome, and
yet you wake up the next day, and you say,
I'm where I'm supposed to be, even if you had
that bad day before. And I'm just wondering, what is
the case that sticks with you, that you carry that
(16:36):
you really wish could have gone differently.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Thankfully, I've been blessed to not have too many of those,
you know what I mean. But I definitely have cases
that stick with me, not necessarily because of the like
aw craft that's happened, you know, but because of the
(17:01):
subject matter or just kind of the overall situation. Like
so for obviously the wine where I talked about being
able to save that little girl, I singing, yeah, yeah,
that sticks with me one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Out about all that.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
But no, there was another case that we had and
this this one doesn't necessarily stick with me for the
same reason. This one sticks with me for a very
different reason. And I will explain why. We got a
report that came back to this residence, and we had
(17:43):
the house, we knew who it was. Guy was a
registered sex offender, and I was talking to him. Ultimately
he ended up admitting Ultimately, he ended up admitting that
it was her stuff and he kept but during the
interview he kept saying it's so bad. It's so bad.
It's so bad, because we try to do as we go, Okay,
well what are you looking at so we can have
(18:04):
an idea of what we're dealing with. If that makes sense,
and lord knows, I've seen it all. Unfortunately or fortunately, however,
you need to view that.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
He's like, it's so bad, it's so bad, it's so bad. Well,
it's so bad. It's so bad. It's so bad.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
It's so he would never come off of it, but
he admitted all well figured out why after forensics were done.
That was over twenty thousand files of SEESAM. So do
I need to explain that acronym to the audience at all?
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, please do, just in case there may be a
lot of people who don't know.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
So se SAM is the acronym for child sexual abuse material.
Child pornography is what a lot of people understand simply
because you know the verbiage. But the se SAM is
used because pornography tends to indicate consent. Right, you video
for a pornographic film and it's entertainment. I feel correct, absolutely,
(19:03):
as we discussed much earlier, it is entertainment. But ce
SAM is not children cannot consent. Oh yeah, because our kids.
But it was over twenty thousand of those files. And
the reason it stuck out to me is because the vast,
vast majority of that twenty thousand was infant.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
And toddler.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
And you had to see it.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah, because I have to be able to articulate, yes,
I found this, so I have to be able to
say yep. So at the residence, we also found a
child sex doll where the it was so used that
(19:51):
the knee joints and elbow joints were rotted from so
where it was just the bear whole frame of it
being shown, so the silicone skin was completely rotted off.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Oh that's a horrifying image. Yeah, yep, that's a nightmare.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yeah. We also.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Found a bunch of used children's underwear that he was
putting on the dolls. And he had a profession to
where he had access to various people's homes. So yeah,
so that was one that stuck out with me.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Understandably, that and having to go through that material.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
So I'm imagining that you go back.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
To goodness, your office with all of your characters and
autographs and things in it, and that's kind of like
a happy place for.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
You in some ways.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
And then you pull out your computer and you are
going through these at your desk. How do you cope
with that? And are other people helping you out? And
do you assist each other? What are the what are
the safety boundaries there? How do you protect your mental health?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
So obviously we trauma bond. I mean, it is what
it is. So again, I work with amazing people that
they'll see stuff and we'll call each other and we'll
just talk because we're all in the same world. So
we can talk about this without kind of dimming everybody
else's light. I hope that makes sense. So we could
(21:36):
talk about it. And again, we all have our hobbies.
Like I've got some guys in my in my office
who loves shooting, so they'll go out and empty clips.
So other guys. There's a bunch of nerds in my
unit too, so that's really cool. So Revenge of the Nerds, right,
(21:57):
And so they'll go, they'll go and they'll watch their
shows or they'll read their comics or something like that,
just like me. And then we're all. You know, most
of us are actually pretty much pretty a lot into
physical fitness. So again we have that like with my
with my martial arts, like I'm I'm hitting things a lot,
(22:17):
so it helps me process things. It gets aggression out,
so that's always a good thing. Again, it's it's just
keeping those coping mechanisms positive. As soon as your coping
mechanism starts to drift into the negative side of things
(22:38):
that might not be the most healthy h and then
we all keep an eye on each other. It's not
uncommon for us to be like, hey, so and so
doesn't look right. We need to go we need to
go talk to them. And then you talk to them,
or they'll come and talk to me, and it's like, yeah, dude,
just give me a second. Absolutely, And then after that second,
(23:00):
hey you good, bro, Yeah, man, I'm good. And then
we'll obviously we'll go elsewhere and then we'll go out
to dinner, go out to lunch or something, and we'll
just talk and we can get it off our chest.
We can help each other through stuff. Again, I am
so ridiculously blessed with my supervisors, with my coworkers.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
And then of course I also get to come home
to my loving patient point.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
So yeah, I think that really shows this that sometimes
it is that this is too much, and it's okay
for it to be too much, and that you have
permission for it to be too much.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Like it's not that you have to.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Keep going beyond that breaking point, because there is a
breaking point.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Ye yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
So as well as looking at for each other after
the job, we also try to look at each other
during the job. In fact, going back to that one
where I was talking about the over twenty thousand files,
me and one of my supervisors was in the office
going through this stuff and we weren't trying to make
each other do it too much. So how my office
(24:18):
is set up is you have my admin computer is here,
and then in front of it would be the forensic computer. Now,
obviously all of the computers can do whatever you need
them to do, but that tends to be how we
separate them. So it's almost like you're getting up and
separating mentally as well. But what we would do is
we would take turns examining the images and videos, and
(24:43):
what we would do is watch each other's shoulders.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
So you're sitting here doing the examination, and as soon
as we would see the other do this, all right,
switch switch come on with the switch.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
So that was our way of in real time kind
of watching out for each other. But also really cool thing.
And I know this might actually sound a little odd.
The technology that we use is even designed for more
of a mental break. And I don't mean mental break,
(25:19):
I mean a mental break. So there are filters that
take away color, there are timers set to where it
literally will tell you get up, look away from the
screen for twenty minutes, and it's designed to force you
to take a break.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Yeah. So it's just it's just some cool stuff.
Speaker 6 (25:43):
And yeah, I love that there's so much mental health
focused now in.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
This particular field.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
I think it was something that was certainly lacking before
because it's unreasonable to think that you can look at
this material day in and day out and not have
a breaking point.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
And yeah, tell me if.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I'm wrong here, but if you don't allow for that
mental health to take precedence and to really be a focus,
that you can really burn out, and that this is
a field where there is a lot of turnover, because
people do burn out severely.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Now, thankfully I have not reached that yet.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
I am again I'm.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I love my job, but yes, absolutely, But that also
goes kind of over entirely in general, especially when you're
dealing with the quote unquote sexes. So when you're dealing
with men, men's mental health as just recently within the
past few years, become more of a conversation. And then
(27:00):
just as well as with fields that tend to be
predominantly male.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
Like law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Now obviously that balance is shifting, and not entirely obviously
in the other way, but we are getting many more
females in the field as well, and of course they're
killing it obviously, but there has been a noticeable shift
to where you are encouraged, I should say, you are
(27:31):
encouraged to not only look after your physical health, because
that's always been there. That's always been there, to look
after your physical health, but to look after your mental
health as well, and seeing the link between physical and
mental as well, and how one can very very heavily.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Affect the other.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
And there's so much.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Horrible graphicness to see in the first responder and law
enforcement world, but it sounds like when it comes to
your work, it's not like seeing a dead body sometimes,
which is clearly horribly, horribly traumatic and awful.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
And could stick with you.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
But to see children be abused over and over, and
to know that it's happening. It's not that you are
walking into a crime that.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Occurred and it's just over.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
And now you're finding out the trajectory of this and
this of that and investigating in that way. There is
a victim who is currently being victimized. And not only that,
you have to watch it. You have to see it
and not even just watch it. You're not watching it
just to say, oh, this is this happened. You're actually
(28:52):
watching it closely, right, to identify different things in the videos.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Absolutely, sometimes we have to watch the videos to attempt
to identify the victim. Sometimes we will have to watch
the videos to attempt to identify the suspect. So you
might listen for words being said, and we have some
we have tips and tricks to kind of avoid taking
(29:20):
it all in at once, if that makes sense, to
kind of just help with processing things.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
Yeah. Absolutely, that is a definite thing.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
The news, social media, everything is filled with story after
story after story after story. After I speak in schools,
I have so many children who come up and disclose
to me, and it's a heartbreaking and it's never ending,
it seems. Does it ever feel to you like the
(29:56):
evil it's winning that that it is snuffing out the
light and the good and the innocence of the world.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yes, Unfortunately, my job will exist for a long time.
It's not like we're going to get them all and
then they can get rid of my position. Right, My
(30:31):
job will exist long after I'm dead. Now, human depravity
has been around since the dawn of time. But unfortunately
or fortunately however you need to view it, the Internet
has kind of allowed a magnifying glass for better for worse.
(30:57):
That's why I said for better for worse to be
on to praving. In fact, I had a case because
you know, obviously I deal with Seesam, but I had
a case to where.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
I was having to.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Go through a young man's computer and stuff, and I
was having to find videos obviously of his Seesam, but
also to where he was raping, skinning, and killing the
neighborhood animals.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
So it went beyond the horrendous Sea Sam and in
to something else. It wasn't like, Okay, this is a
different area. I'm going to give this to the animal
protection people. This is now part of your role as well.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Because Sea Sam is involved.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
It's all me.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Or who or whoever's in my position, you know what
I mean. So if it was like in someone else's
jurisdiction or someone else's case, then they would.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Be doing the same thing.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
It was interesting more from a psychological perspective, it was interesting.
On our devices is everything, it's our whole life, right,
every single thing about someone is there. So when I
was going through this young man's devices and I was
processing them and examining them, I was seeing the de
(32:23):
evolution of everything. I was seeing the depravity. Continue to
do this until it got to, as we discussed much earlier,
that endpoint.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
And that was.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
That was actually pretty interesting to look at. Obviously, it
was some of the worst stuff you'll ever see naturally
when we're in when we're in real life. Let me
let me say this. When we're in real life, we're
constantly interacting with the media. Okay, we're interacting with the
middle ground.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
The Internet again, for better for worse, allows the fringes, Okay,
it allows the fringes to become more apparent. Normally, you
only see the fringes on the news, right, that's what
the whole news, that's the whole news cycle. But on
the Internet, you get to see it. Now. Whether or
not people are actually like that in real life is
(33:18):
an entirely different situation, naturally, because some people feel emboldened
by anonymity right.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Right, that they're not ever going to get caught and
they can just explore those dark areas and reality of themselves.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Absolutely in this case and absolutely, But in this case
and all my other cases, it's just this one also
had the animals involved in it, so it kind of
stepped out of my norm as unfortunate as that sounds,
all my cases allow for a telescopic viewpoint of their mindset,
(34:02):
and the one with the animals, I got to see
the various stages he was going through, the things he
would at least relate to at least at that time,
and then he would relate to something else at a
different time. And it was just interesting to kind of
keep track of that timeline because of course I have
to document all this stuff that I'm finding.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
It's sort of like he from the content that he
is consuming, it sounds almost like he is heading towards
a nihilistic violence extremist, the NVE side of all this.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Absolutely absolutely, and you know, talk about the serial killer trifecta.
One of the things involved is violence towards animals, and
then of course obviously got arson. And then what's the
other one, wedding the bed, Yeah I remember correctly, Yeah,
bed wedding. I don't know if he went the bed
(34:58):
or if he was involved in the arsen and I
have no idea, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Do you think that maybe he was on the path
to be a serial killer?
Speaker 4 (35:06):
Going by what I saw, that would not be far off. Yeah, potentially,
And you caught him.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
And thankfully, I will say this, I came in at
the tail end. The agency that we were helping out
actually did all that work, and they did a wonderful
job with their interview. He admitted everything. He was actually
incredibly cooperative too, incredibly so, so they did all that
leg work. I don't want to take any credit from them.
(35:33):
They absolutely killed it unintended, I guess.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
But it's I kind of same things like I'm not
going to say it there.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, but they did a wonderful job. I just came
in and did my role, so I was only just
carrying the torch that they had already lit.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
So yeah, heroes, true heroes, And I love that we
had that moment of levity because that dark humor is
what I love kind of most law enforcement. I have
so many friends who are in law enforcement in this field,
and I seem to get them and they seem to
get me in a big part of it is that
we've both looked into the darkness and into the monster's face,
(36:14):
but that that dark humor really can get you through it.
Speaker 6 (36:20):
Well.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
When you're walking through hell and you're staring it seems
like the devil in the face at times, it's probably
really good to laugh in its face.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Yeah, if you can laugh, you can think, because in
order for you to laugh, you have to process things right,
you have to find the humor in it. So that
kind of helps me be like, well, I have time
(36:53):
if I can laugh at this, Lord knows, I have
time to be able to process it. I have time
to be able to address it versus the oh my god.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
What am I gonna do? What I'm I gonna do?
What I'm gonna do.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
See, and you're so good about using your skills that,
as you've said, have been blessed.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
With and your talents to really.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Push your cases forward as a coping mechanism that you
sang to this little girl, and you were able to
get her to open up and to feel better. You
gave her a moment of peace and that contentment when
you were there and you stepped in, and she must
have felt like, oh, the good guys are here now,
and you sang to her, and I'm just on top
(37:38):
of everything else. Right, you are this singer, your handle right,
opera ranger. You are an opera singer. And I'm just like,
when did you find out you could do that? Like
were you just singing in the shower one day and
you were like, damn, I'm really good at this. I
should press up like my favorite character and sing to
people like how did that happen?
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Uh? Well, apparently my dad was a trial attorney. So
my father was a trial attorney before he passed, and
he always had that booming, commanding voice. He always knew
(38:23):
something up. Because I think I turned like not what
was it like eleven or twelve, you know, when I
was starting to go through puberty and yeah, and I
started to sound like him. And my dad would sing
a lot of songs and you know, like, uh my,
(38:45):
one of my dad's favorite songs was they call the
Wind Mariah, and it's like way out here. They got
a name for rain and wind and fire. The rainest
tests the fire is Joe, and they call the wind Mariah. Well,
I would hear my dad sing that all the time,
and I started to mimic him. And my dad always
(39:08):
had that again, like I said, that deep booming voice.
And then my mother, my mother's been on stage plays
for years. She was singing while pregnant with me. So
I've been around that type of thing for a long.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Time before you were born.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Obviously, and so yeah, and then within the past few
years I even started to formally take vocal lessons. And
don't get me wrong, I took vocal lessons when I
was in college, but I didn't even know I could
sing until my senior year of high school. I was
in the car with a young lady friend of mine
and we were I think we were heading to lunch
(39:49):
or something, and she heard someone singing and I had
System of a Down. I love system of Down. I'm
a big heavy metal guy. I love system of Down.
And I was singing aerials, and apparently she kept hearing
someone else besides Surge singing, and she kept turning down
(40:14):
the volume and I would try to match when I
would stop singing so she wouldn't know that it was me.
Needless to say, that was one time she did it
and I did not see her do it, So Surge
stop singing, but Will didn't. Will continue to sing. And
after that she looked at me and said, you're joining choir.
(40:35):
And of course, you know, this was my seni year
of high school. I literally only needed one credit to graduate.
I turned pottery into a year long class, so I
was just trying to graduate and so I just needed classes.
So I was like, all right, fine, I joined chorus,
and next thing I knew, I was in the honor choir.
(40:55):
And then when I went to college, I was in
the honor choir. My vocal code which was the honor
choir director. And then after I graduated college, I never
took voice lessons again until just a few years ago.
I started back after I met my current vocal coach
through my mother.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
I love that you have these people in your life
who helped to lead you and guide you, and that
you listen. You don't go oh no, no, no, I
only do that privately or well I'm not that good,
but you're like, oh yeah, I should go for this.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Did you ever feel like that with your singing.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Is there a moment where you were kind of like
pushing it down and then you flourished.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Absolutely, so I actually attempted to go somewhere with my voice,
and of course it didn't go anywhere, because not only
do you have to have the talent, but you so
my dad will constantly talk about how luck is preparedness
meets timing. That's all it is, preparedness meets timing.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
I like that.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
I did.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Yeah, I did not have much luck in the singing field,
so I just kind of went, it is what it is.
If I have a nice voice, that's great. So I
started singing at these conventions. I started singing for the
various Rangers. I would sing to them at the convention.
I would sing their theme song, just in opera form,
so like.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
The Rangers themselves, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
So, like no one will therefore take them down. The
power lies on their I I.
Speaker 5 (42:36):
Ranger.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
So and I would do that for all the different
theme songs, and you know, of course they loved it.
You know, they would draw crowds to them and blah
blah blah. But it was my way of giving back
to them, because obviously they mean a lot to me,
So it was in it was my way of saying
thank you. I'll say, it's just a random dude singing
(43:02):
for you. So it's not like I'm doing much for them,
But in my head I was it is.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
What it is.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
You're talking that down.
Speaker 6 (43:10):
I know that they loved it.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
It was that they were very they were very complimentary.
I'll say that they were very complimentary. But one day
I was at my mom's house and my mom loves
singing obviously, as I kind of explained earlier, and I
was singing Memory from Cats. I actually really liked that song.
Yeah I love that song. And next thing I know,
(43:37):
this random woman comes up to me and she's like,
I would love to sing with you, and essay, who's
this And my Mom's like, hey, remember that woman. I
told you that was like doing the whole Broadway thing
for like a long time. I was like, yeah, that's her.
Oh oh okay, oh wow yeah. And so then she's like,
let me sing, yeah preparedness versus timing or with and
(44:02):
so I was like okay, and she's like, well sing
with me, and so she wanted to sing All I
Ask of You from Phantom of the Opera.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
No, that wasn't happening.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
At the end of that song, there's a key change.
I'm a bass baritone, barely's my favorite part of the song.
And I was like, that's a tenor. That is a tenor.
And she looks at me and goes, no, you can
do it. You can do it, and I was like, no,
I can't. She's like, you can just shut up and sing, okay.
(44:38):
So we started singing, and of course this was the
first time I never had to hold my volume back.
I never had to control my power quote unquote like
the the big voice. I never had to do any
of that. And I was genuinely amazed. And then we
get to the part right before the key change, and
she turns and looks at me and says, don't leave
(45:01):
my eyes. Focus here, find my placement, find my timing,
and just sink. So for that whole time, our eyes
never met. And then we came in perfectly together and
I hit all of the notes perfectly. That never happened before.
And then as soon as we finished, she said, all right,
(45:22):
it's cool. So when are you coming over for lessons?
Speaker 1 (45:27):
I didn't, you didn't What did you say?
Speaker 4 (45:32):
I did not.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
I simply told her, I said, no, I'm okay, but
thank you, that's very kind of you. I'm just not
really interested in pursuing that. A few months passed, I
think it was like maybe two months, and I was
mowing the lawn and something came over me, and I
was like, all right, if the Lord is gonna bless
me with a voice, then who am I to not
(45:56):
be a good steward of it. I don't know if
something's going to come from it. I have no idea.
I've kind of already done the amazing thing. I was
able to sing to a victim. I was able to
cheer her up. And she wasn't the only child that
I ended up singing for obviously throughout my years a
SVU and ICAC, but like, to me, that's the pinnacle.
(46:17):
I have no idea what's going to happen, but it's
still a gift and I still need to take care
of and I still needed to harness and cherish and
all that kind of stuff. So I called up my
mom and she says, she's been waiting for you, And
next thing I know, I've been her vocal student for
the past few years now, and my voice has grown exponentially.
(46:40):
Apparently my voice is now over three octaves.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
When you're working with victims and survivors, you sang, and
you said you sing to them. But do your does
your hobbies or your your talents or those do you
use them in any other ways, your interests, whatever it
might be, when working with especially children.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Yeah, so like I'll so, for example, the shirt that
I'm wearing right now, I have a few of these.
Unfortunately I am out growing them. I was about one
hundred and eighty pounds when I first got these. Now
I'm about two fifteen two ten. So that's fun getting fat,
but I bet it's muscle. I would wear these two
(47:29):
interviews with children because I'm certified to forensically interview children.
So there's a lot that goes into that, but kids
see it because of course, the idea is to get
the child comfortable enough to where they feel comfortable talking
about why they're there, if they even know why they're there,
if that makes sense, and so like they'll see, oh
(47:50):
my god, that's butterfree and they'll know it right off
the bat. Next thing I know, I'm a best friend.
Or I still keep up with video games I'm not
much of a gamer myself. I still dabble in some
If it's digimond game, I'm playing it, no questions asked.
Like the recent Time Stranger I cried at the end,
not even kidding.
Speaker 4 (48:06):
But I still keep up with stuff.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
I still keep up with fandoms quote unquote, like star
Wars and stuff, even though that's not really my thing,
I still keep up with it. So when I'm talking
to these kids, they're into it, or I'll find something
they're into, and I know just enough about a lot
to get me in trouble if you.
Speaker 4 (48:27):
Catch my drift.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
So if I can find something that they are into
and even come off like I kind of know what
I'm talking about, or if I come off genuinely interested
in what they're talking about, they'll talk. They will absolutely
talk because, like we talked about before, everybody wants to
(48:50):
be heard. So when you give someone a chance to
talk about their hobbies example example here, if you give
someone a chance to talk about their hobbies or their
interests or whatever other terms you would feel like using,
they're going to feel more comfortable talking to you in general.
And that's the same thing I do with my suspects.
(49:12):
When I talk to them. You'd be surprised how much
of my suspects I can sit here and talk to
about Anime, I can talk to about Dragon ball Z,
about all these different things. And next thing you know,
they start getting more comfortable with me and I'm able
to talk to them. And again that goes back to
the thank you, Detective Brit for treating me like a
human being. So that stuff comes out all the time,
(49:35):
all the time. Maybe not my martial arts much, but.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Yeah, I imagine it's probably I do think that could
probably be pretty useful too.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Well in different in a different situation, it's very useful.
Speaker 4 (49:49):
But not in not in.
Speaker 3 (49:50):
Communicating, No, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, yeah, you must be just not what people expect
when you walk into the room, like, oh, Detective Britt
is going to come in and ask you some questions now,
and then you roll into the room in a Pokemon shirt.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
Yeah. So just to give you a fun little I
don't know about teaser or whatever, but a fun little
tidbit about me when I was on the road, I
told you I was on the road for two years
with Coverla County Sheriff's Office. So behind me where the
cage part sat. I had a squirrel, a Pokemon squirtle
(50:33):
stuffed animal back there that when I would put someone
back there, I would turn it to where they're looking
at them what And I'd be like, yeah, so I
would turn the squirrel to look at whoever's back there,
And it was actually really interesting how people would respond
to even grown men would kind of almost start cowering
because I turned something that is so cute and innocent
(50:57):
to look back at them, and all of a sudden
they're just like you can see them visibly like trying
to avoid eye contact with the stuffed animal. Yeah, Squirtle
is my is my favorite starter. So yeah, I just
loving you.
Speaker 3 (51:12):
You're really in the moment, you.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Respond to what is needed at the time, and it's
really it's really beautiful and.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
I'm so glad.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
As silly as the sounds, I really am so glad
that you exist, and I'm so glad that I get
to know you, and I'm so glad that so many
victims get to know you, and I'm really glad that
so many perpetrators get to know you on maybe their
worst day.
Speaker 4 (51:50):
Well, thank you. It's also a blessing to know you
as well.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
Miss Alicia, Miss Alicia, we're very farm on now, mister
brit very nice Bridge.
Speaker 3 (52:03):
We've talked so much.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
We've talked about some stories, we've talked about the work
that you do and in the unique way that you
do it, and when people talk about true crime.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
So that's one of the things I did not want
this podcast to really be. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
It might be under a true crime label, and that's
perfectly cool, and I would love true crime people who
like true crime to come listen to it. But what
I think of this as is like real crime, Like
what is really happening. This isn't about sensationalizing. It's not
just about telling a story and stopping it there. It
is the real child exploitation.
Speaker 3 (52:38):
It's really what's going on.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
And I'd like to know what would you what do
you want those people to know? The people who are
really into true crime and want to bring true crime
and watch true crime all the time, and this is
what they do and what they enjoy and I do
to certainly at.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
Times, But what do you want them to.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
Know about real chat exploitation and this world that you
live and work in every single day.
Speaker 4 (53:10):
The people.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
And this kind of goes over everything. So it's military,
it's all that stuff. But of course it also deals
with c SAM investigators as well. You're listening to details
of a case, right you're you're going through the and
then that eight oh three on a Tuesday, you heard
(53:33):
this and blah blah blah blah blah. The investigators that
are actually doing it. That stuff sticks with us because
we're there. Thank you for being interested in our jobs.
Speaker 4 (53:48):
One percent. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
But unfortunately, or fortunately, I guess, because we do liminate
a rather safe society, that crime is allowed to be
some type of entertainment. Just don't get it confused that
it is strictly entertainment. It only becomes entertainment afterwards. In
(54:20):
that moment, someone was killed, In that moment, a child
was abused. Just try to remember that, because again, these
stories can be fun. Obviously we're having this conversation here
(54:42):
is good. It also helps that it turns out that
a Leisha and I are actually good friends, so that
helps out a lot. But I'll follow it up with this,
no matter what you experience, no matter what you go through,
no matter what knocks you down, if you can remember
to stand back up, just focus on one thing and
(55:07):
that's focus on who you actually are. Don't ever let
that get lost. If you can keep that in mind
about who you are, where you came from, you know
things to take into account. Like I've been talking to
fram my wife about pride and vegeta.
Speaker 4 (55:32):
Dragon ball Z character. My favorite Dragon ball Z character
is this.
Speaker 2 (55:35):
Whole thing is about say in pride, the say in race,
the pretty much aliens that fight they're really going to fighting. Well,
I've always found it interesting for pride because in certain
Christian theologies, pride is one of the seven deadly sins.
Speaker 3 (55:54):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
I do not agree with that. I actually take great
pride in things, and I differentiate this is just me. Okay,
So I could be horribly wrong, because Lord knows I
have been.
Speaker 4 (56:12):
Just ask frand she'll tell you. I happily I tell you.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
But in my head, arrogance and pride or ego I
should say, and pride are two entirely different things. You
take pride in what you do, so you're going to
do it good. You're going to take pride in the
fact that you're a father or that you're a mother,
and you are going to make sure that those children
(56:37):
are taking care of you, take pride in that. You
better take pride in that, take pride in your work.
You know, the Bible will talk about the spirit of
excellence doing that type of thing. I take pride in
a lot of different things and because of that that
(56:57):
allows me to be okay with things, if that makes sense.
So just take pride in who you are and don't
forget to stand back up, because this world is going
to continue to knock you down, Like what's the what's
the the the famous Rocky quote, you know, where he's
(57:23):
talking about no one hits harder than life, you know,
but you got to get back up.
Speaker 4 (57:27):
It is what it is.
Speaker 2 (57:29):
We talked, we talked earlier about how the evil's taken over.
Of course evil's taking over it is the world. But
nothing shows more strength than still being able to smile
after staring into the abyss.
Speaker 1 (57:47):
And like you said, not losing yourself and will thank
you so much for being so unapologetically yourself and sharing that.
Speaker 3 (57:59):
It's that important message.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
I think it's so it's so inspirational because with your work,
and with anybody who works in a field where it
takes little bits of your soul, sometimes it it can
be easy to feel like you're losing yourself, and I
(58:21):
love that you are yourself, and I'm so grateful that
you again are the first guest on my podcast. Thank
you so much for joining me here tonight, and thank
you for being so open and so you, and thank
(58:41):
you for taking that you and saving lives.
Speaker 4 (58:45):
Well, thank you for having me. It was an absolute honor.
Speaker 3 (58:52):
Thank you so much for tuning in. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (58:56):
We'll be releasing new episodes every Thursday. Make sure you
check out our YouTube jenneal and hit us up on
our social media on at Alicia kozac Pot for extra
content around each episode, and please remember to subscribe on Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you get your podcasts
Welcome back to the Alicia Coza Podcast. If you've already
listened to part one of Will's story, you know that
it was everything I said it would be. It was
heartbreaking and it was inspiring, It was dark, and it
was funny. It had all of the complicated pieces that
live inside of this work and inside of the people
who choose to do it. We talked about what he
has seen in his work as a NYCAC officer and
the way it all lands on a human being who
(00:25):
was just trying to do the next right thing and
trying to save the world. And then right in the
middle of all of that heaviness, Will's phone right it
was his wife. He picked it up, said hi baby,
and for a second you could just feel the whole
room shift. That little moment is actually why I didn't
(00:47):
want to just quietly fade into part two, because this
is what real life looks like for the people who
do this work. There are brutal days, and there are
hilarious stories. There is trauma, and there's so much purpose,
and threaded through all of it are the relationships that
make it survivable. So in the second part of Will's episode,
we pick up right where we left off, and then
(01:07):
we go deeper, deeper into the people who hold him up.
We'll talk about his wife, his family, the mentors, and
the teammates who showed up at exactly the right time,
and how those connections help shape the officer he is today.
We'll talk about one of those moments too that sounds
almost impossible until you actually hear it from him, how
(01:28):
singing the theme song from a popular children's TV show
helped a victim of a horrendous crime feel safe enough
to speak up. It's one of those stories that reminds
you that sometimes the smallest, strangest, most humane moments can
become the doorway to something so much bigger. We talk
about what it means to be supported while you're carrying
things that most people thankfully never have to see, and
(01:50):
what it looks like to try to be okay for
the people you love when you come home from a
day that was anything but okay. If Part one was
about what Will does and what he has been through,
part two is really about who he is and who
has stood decide him. So let's get back into it.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yeah, one second, a sweetheart, no baby, I'm good, Thank
you though, but you're okay, okay, cool, we're we're on
the podcast, but that's it's all recorded, so I don't
you're fine, You're fine, Alice, Yeah, hi baby, I love
you your five baby love you.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
But but yeah, you two are so cute.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
And the fact that she's a judge and that she
knows the space too, that has to I would, I
would imagine be comforting that she can understand and that
you understand her bad days too.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yes, So there will be times where now I will say,
I don't get super into detail about my stuff with
her because I'm not trying to ruin her day too.
But I'm able to talk with her somewhat about it.
But it is it is at least nice to have
(03:09):
somebody that I can at least somewhat relate to. Does
that make sense? So if I bring up a frustration
in the legal field, she can definitely understand what I'm
getting at.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
So yeah, and she probably allows you time to not
answer to that. If you say I had a bad day,
it's not ooh, tell me I can make it better.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
It's okay, Well I'm not going to go there.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
So she refers to when I come home. How I
kind of alluded to when I'm an ice box when
I come home. She refers to that as my thawing
out period. And to give you a good example, I
had a pretty rough day. I had seen some stuff
that was unusually jarring, and I came home. I walk
(03:56):
up to her, I kiss her, so I'm letting her
know I'm here, but I don't say a word. I
walk past her after kissing her, go upstairs, take a shower,
and then like sit on the bed and veg out
on my phone for like an hour.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I then come downstairs and on the TV is Power
Rangers and a plate of dinner is waiting for me. Oh,
I am talking about being blessed. My wife is also
one of the amazing blessings that I have been given
(04:36):
that Lord knows I don't deserve by any stretch of
the term.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, that's amazing to have that support because the work
can be so dark and so lonely, and that nobody
really understands what you're going through, and a partner sometimes
really want to help and fix and do things, and
it's beautiful that she gives you that space. But she's
also like kind of sliding things under the door and
(05:03):
being like, here you go, I'm helping you come out
when you're ready.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Yeah. Absolutely, And.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Then so I tried to take it back to her
as well, because of course you'll have bad days as well,
which she might have some cases that might hit her
a little harder than some other times. So yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
So you talked about having a hard day, and you've
talked about that a couple of times. So it sounds
like you have unfortunately a lot of bad days and
a lot of hard days at your job. But can
you tell me about one moment that made you think, like,
this is why I do what I do? What's that
like where you high fived everybody? What is that win
in your mind? Maybe even that first win?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
So I had a case it was actually the case
of Mimmy fall in Love KAC. I was SVU back
at Carberland County and ultimately we got a report that
somebody there was some unrecognized photos. So pretty much there's
they have a database, the NICKNACK, the National Center of
(06:07):
Mistexploited Children, has a database of known child pornography. Unfortunately,
that's millions of files large, and there was some that
weren't so they're like, oh, this is a problem. Ultimately,
what that led us to find out is that there
was a little girl who was being trafficked by her
mother to a local man in the area. And yeah,
(06:33):
my co workers were absolutely amazing. We were able to
track where this little girl was and we did an
emergency search. One we hit the house and I'm me
and my me and my buddy are where the first
ones day at the house, we you know, knocked out police,
(06:54):
share whatever. I can't remember when I said it was
eight years ago. Open up, blah blah blah. Door opens up,
and I see the little girl that was.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
In the photos, and that's the first time that's happened.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Absolutely and out loud, I said, oh my god, it's
the girl from the photos. And my partner was like,
let's get her out of here and go. So we
all stormed in, took you know, immediately seize the home
and began processing, you know, to actually conduct the investigation.
(07:29):
The mother admitted to offending on the child herself. The
mother admitting to allowing the gentleman to offend on the
child even with her right there as well, and they
both offended on the child at the same time. It
was a lot, it had been going on for a
(07:50):
few years. So thankfully we were able to put a
stop to it. But during the search, during the search warrant,
when the interview and everything was done and we were
kind of processing everything, the people who were watching the
child came up to me and said, Hey, she's not
(08:11):
doing well. Talk about the kid like, she's not doing well.
Is there any way you can go in there and
cheer her up? Hey, you sing and you know the
Pokemon theme song? She loves Pokemon? Can you sing that
for her? So this was another instance where I said
I'm blessed with the people.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
I work with.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I turned request Yeah. I turned around and I looked
at everybody else that was on the search warrant. They
stopped everything they were doing and said, go take care
of her. So I walked in reintroduced myself because the
last time she saw me, I was the towering the
towering Sheriff's detective that came into her home. I reintroduced
(08:55):
myself and I said, by the way, I hear you
like Pokemon. She said yes, and I immediately started singing
the Pokemon theme song.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
How does that go?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
So let's see, I want to be the very best,
like no one ever was to catch them is my
real test to train them as my call. I will
travel all across the land searching for and wad it's Pokemon,
(09:27):
to understand the power that's inside Pokemon. Got it, catch
them ball.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
So you're saying it, did you sing it loud.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Like that or did you No? No, it was much
louder like I did the full blown opera like Bam.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
She has a beautifully powerful song. I've never heard the
lyrics really to that.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Oh no, it's actually a really inspiring song. But it is.
In fact, I don't know if you could tell, but
this is a Pokemon shirt, so that's butterfree and these
are Pokemon poke balls that are the buttons. So I
was saying that for the little girl, she had a blast.
Next thing, I know, she was bouncing off the walls
(10:13):
and yeah, the whole environment changed when we were able
to arrest the guy and the mom and make sure
this child got into safe hands. That made me fall
in love with Ikeak And that was the big.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
For me.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Obviously I had other ones, like I had good confessions,
I had other stuff like that, but it was the saving,
the active stuff going on that was a big thing
for me.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Wow, I don't think people think of law enforcement in
that way ever. Really, I think that paints such a
different image. Which is what I want to do with
this podcast too, is I want to show the people
who fight to protect kids as people.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
As we've talked a couple of times.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Too, I want to show that human side too, And
what a beautiful thing to have done. In my presentations
when I speak to law enforcement. That's one thing that
I talk about, actually is how we need to be
in the room with the victim as who they are
and what they need in that moment, not necessarily getting
the questions out, not making this and not doing that.
(11:30):
You are not necessarily in charge of the energy.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
In that room. The victim is.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
And you met her right where she was, and she
must have felt so so seen, And as you've said,
everybody wants to feel seen, and she has been seen
in the most disgusting, awful ways that have taken It
sounds like her humanity and her right to her body
(11:56):
and her safety and her security by those who should
love and protect her most. And you stepped in and
saved her but with what was important to her.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
It's beautiful. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I had a case where we ended up getting a
pretty bad cyber tip came in. It's like, oh my god,
there's potentially active abuse going on right now. We got
to go, and it was on a Friday afternoon. I
got a phone call, Hey, you do not have to come,
(12:33):
but you're more than welcome to. And I was like, hell, yeah,
let's go on the way there, and it was about
a two and a half hour drive. On the way there,
the guy I was with was calling all of his
coworkers who are now my coworkers, and said, Hey, this
is what we got. They all said the same thing
to him. No, no, no, don't worry about it. Just tell
us about it when we get there. That is on
(12:54):
a Friday afternoon. Wow, I don't like that dedication. And absolutely,
and then thankfully, thankfully, it was a it was a
no child was in danger or anything along that line.
But we ended up running into a lot of drugs.
There a lot of drugs. We ended up coming into
a grow house and well, we're there for the kids,
(13:19):
we weren't there. We weren't there for the drugs. So
we ended up calling the local sheriff's office and they
were like, absolutely, we'll come out and we'll take custody
of the stuff and okay, so they came out, did
their own search once so they could legally seize everything.
They seized it, and uh yeah, moved on. Next day,
there was a huge press release from this agency and
(13:42):
they put out like, you know, we came across this
huge grow operation blah blah blah blah blah, and like
touted it. And that's great because they did. The SBI
was not mentioned even once. And I remember looking at
my supervisor and again this was I'm still not necessarily
with the SBI at this point, but I'm working with
(14:03):
him as a TFA, so a task force agent, And
I was like, does that bother you? And he looks
at me and he goes, why would it? Kids are safe?
I got no issue, what's wrong? And that blew my mind.
So that was another moment where I was like, I
(14:24):
need to be a part of this. This is amazing.
I want this because it's so mission focused. But at
the same time, everybody it's just this weird thing because
most of the time when you see different types of
things like this, you tend to see either one mission
focused or two individual focused, right, So you tend to
see one or the other.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
This is the.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Potentially the only time I've ever seen them both at
an equal measure, and it's amazing. No questions asked, no
questions asked.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
It's really just about the kids. It's not about the
promotion or the shiny trophy or the story being in
the big newspaper.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
It's really just did a child get saved?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Then we're good. Was there no child in danger? No,
no children were in danger? Okay, Well then let them
do what they want.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
I could see how that would be so inspirational on
how you'd want to be a part of that. I
feel like listeners right now might be like, Wow, I
want I want to join in this fight, and I
hope people do. I hope this inspires people to join
that fight and in the side fighting for good.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Yeah wow Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Purpose is so special, and it seems like you really
have a handle on yours and it has to be
one of the things that gets you through these really
dark days that you mentioned, because not every day can
be a high five and a win, right. There has
to be those cases that go totally sideways and backwards
(16:14):
and upside down and you get a terrible outcome, and
yet you wake up the next day, and you say,
I'm where I'm supposed to be, even if you had
that bad day before. And I'm just wondering, what is
the case that sticks with you, that you carry that
(16:36):
you really wish could have gone differently.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Thankfully, I've been blessed to not have too many of those,
you know what I mean. But I definitely have cases
that stick with me, not necessarily because of the like
aw craft that's happened, you know, but because of the
(17:01):
subject matter or just kind of the overall situation. Like
so for obviously the wine where I talked about being
able to save that little girl, I singing, yeah, yeah,
that sticks with me one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Out about all that.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
But no, there was another case that we had and
this this one doesn't necessarily stick with me for the
same reason. This one sticks with me for a very
different reason. And I will explain why. We got a
report that came back to this residence, and we had
(17:43):
the house, we knew who it was. Guy was a
registered sex offender, and I was talking to him. Ultimately
he ended up admitting Ultimately, he ended up admitting that
it was her stuff and he kept but during the
interview he kept saying it's so bad. It's so bad.
It's so bad, because we try to do as we go, Okay,
well what are you looking at so we can have
(18:04):
an idea of what we're dealing with. If that makes sense,
and lord knows, I've seen it all. Unfortunately or fortunately, however,
you need to view that.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
He's like, it's so bad, it's so bad, it's so bad. Well,
it's so bad. It's so bad. It's so bad.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
It's so he would never come off of it, but
he admitted all well figured out why after forensics were done.
That was over twenty thousand files of SEESAM. So do
I need to explain that acronym to the audience at all?
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, please do, just in case there may be a
lot of people who don't know.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
So se SAM is the acronym for child sexual abuse material.
Child pornography is what a lot of people understand simply
because you know the verbiage. But the se SAM is
used because pornography tends to indicate consent. Right, you video
for a pornographic film and it's entertainment. I feel correct, absolutely,
(19:03):
as we discussed much earlier, it is entertainment. But ce
SAM is not children cannot consent. Oh yeah, because our kids.
But it was over twenty thousand of those files. And
the reason it stuck out to me is because the vast,
vast majority of that twenty thousand was infant.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
And toddler.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
And you had to see it.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah, because I have to be able to articulate, yes,
I found this, so I have to be able to
say yep. So at the residence, we also found a
child sex doll where the it was so used that
(19:51):
the knee joints and elbow joints were rotted from so
where it was just the bear whole frame of it
being shown, so the silicone skin was completely rotted off.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Oh that's a horrifying image. Yeah, yep, that's a nightmare.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yeah. We also.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Found a bunch of used children's underwear that he was
putting on the dolls. And he had a profession to
where he had access to various people's homes. So yeah,
so that was one that stuck out with me.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Understandably, that and having to go through that material.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
So I'm imagining that you go back.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
To goodness, your office with all of your characters and
autographs and things in it, and that's kind of like
a happy place for.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
You in some ways.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
And then you pull out your computer and you are
going through these at your desk. How do you cope
with that? And are other people helping you out? And
do you assist each other? What are the what are
the safety boundaries there? How do you protect your mental health?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
So obviously we trauma bond. I mean, it is what
it is. So again, I work with amazing people that
they'll see stuff and we'll call each other and we'll
just talk because we're all in the same world. So
we can talk about this without kind of dimming everybody
else's light. I hope that makes sense. So we could
(21:36):
talk about it. And again, we all have our hobbies.
Like I've got some guys in my in my office
who loves shooting, so they'll go out and empty clips.
So other guys. There's a bunch of nerds in my
unit too, so that's really cool. So Revenge of the Nerds, right,
(21:57):
And so they'll go, they'll go and they'll watch their
shows or they'll read their comics or something like that,
just like me. And then we're all. You know, most
of us are actually pretty much pretty a lot into
physical fitness. So again we have that like with my
with my martial arts, like I'm I'm hitting things a lot,
(22:17):
so it helps me process things. It gets aggression out,
so that's always a good thing. Again, it's it's just
keeping those coping mechanisms positive. As soon as your coping
mechanism starts to drift into the negative side of things
(22:38):
that might not be the most healthy h and then
we all keep an eye on each other. It's not
uncommon for us to be like, hey, so and so
doesn't look right. We need to go we need to
go talk to them. And then you talk to them,
or they'll come and talk to me, and it's like, yeah, dude,
just give me a second. Absolutely, And then after that second,
(23:00):
hey you good, bro, Yeah, man, I'm good. And then
we'll obviously we'll go elsewhere and then we'll go out
to dinner, go out to lunch or something, and we'll
just talk and we can get it off our chest.
We can help each other through stuff. Again, I am
so ridiculously blessed with my supervisors, with my coworkers.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
And then of course I also get to come home
to my loving patient point.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
So yeah, I think that really shows this that sometimes
it is that this is too much, and it's okay
for it to be too much, and that you have
permission for it to be too much.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Like it's not that you have to.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Keep going beyond that breaking point, because there is a
breaking point.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Ye yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
So as well as looking at for each other after
the job, we also try to look at each other
during the job. In fact, going back to that one
where I was talking about the over twenty thousand files,
me and one of my supervisors was in the office
going through this stuff and we weren't trying to make
each other do it too much. So how my office
(24:18):
is set up is you have my admin computer is here,
and then in front of it would be the forensic computer. Now,
obviously all of the computers can do whatever you need
them to do, but that tends to be how we
separate them. So it's almost like you're getting up and
separating mentally as well. But what we would do is
we would take turns examining the images and videos, and
(24:43):
what we would do is watch each other's shoulders.
Speaker 5 (24:45):
So you're sitting here doing the examination, and as soon
as we would see the other do this, all right,
switch switch come on with the switch.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
So that was our way of in real time kind
of watching out for each other. But also really cool thing.
And I know this might actually sound a little odd.
The technology that we use is even designed for more
of a mental break. And I don't mean mental break,
(25:19):
I mean a mental break. So there are filters that
take away color, there are timers set to where it
literally will tell you get up, look away from the
screen for twenty minutes, and it's designed to force you
to take a break.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Yeah. So it's just it's just some cool stuff.
Speaker 6 (25:43):
And yeah, I love that there's so much mental health
focused now in.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
This particular field.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
I think it was something that was certainly lacking before
because it's unreasonable to think that you can look at
this material day in and day out and not have
a breaking point.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
And yeah, tell me if.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I'm wrong here, but if you don't allow for that
mental health to take precedence and to really be a focus,
that you can really burn out, and that this is
a field where there is a lot of turnover, because
people do burn out severely.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Now, thankfully I have not reached that yet.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
I am again I'm.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I love my job, but yes, absolutely, But that also
goes kind of over entirely in general, especially when you're
dealing with the quote unquote sexes. So when you're dealing
with men, men's mental health as just recently within the
past few years, become more of a conversation. And then
(27:00):
just as well as with fields that tend to be
predominantly male.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
Like law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Now obviously that balance is shifting, and not entirely obviously
in the other way, but we are getting many more
females in the field as well, and of course they're
killing it obviously, but there has been a noticeable shift
to where you are encouraged, I should say, you are
(27:31):
encouraged to not only look after your physical health, because
that's always been there. That's always been there, to look
after your physical health, but to look after your mental
health as well, and seeing the link between physical and
mental as well, and how one can very very heavily.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Affect the other.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
And there's so much.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Horrible graphicness to see in the first responder and law
enforcement world, but it sounds like when it comes to
your work, it's not like seeing a dead body sometimes,
which is clearly horribly, horribly traumatic and awful.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
And could stick with you.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
But to see children be abused over and over, and
to know that it's happening. It's not that you are
walking into a crime that.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Occurred and it's just over.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
And now you're finding out the trajectory of this and
this of that and investigating in that way. There is
a victim who is currently being victimized. And not only that,
you have to watch it. You have to see it
and not even just watch it. You're not watching it
just to say, oh, this is this happened. You're actually
(28:52):
watching it closely, right, to identify different things in the videos.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Absolutely, sometimes we have to watch the videos to attempt
to identify the victim. Sometimes we will have to watch
the videos to attempt to identify the suspect. So you
might listen for words being said, and we have some
we have tips and tricks to kind of avoid taking
(29:20):
it all in at once, if that makes sense, to
kind of just help with processing things.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
Yeah. Absolutely, that is a definite thing.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
The news, social media, everything is filled with story after
story after story after story. After I speak in schools,
I have so many children who come up and disclose
to me, and it's a heartbreaking and it's never ending,
it seems. Does it ever feel to you like the
(29:56):
evil it's winning that that it is snuffing out the
light and the good and the innocence of the world.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yes, Unfortunately, my job will exist for a long time.
It's not like we're going to get them all and
then they can get rid of my position. Right, My
(30:31):
job will exist long after I'm dead. Now, human depravity
has been around since the dawn of time. But unfortunately
or fortunately however you need to view it, the Internet
has kind of allowed a magnifying glass for better for worse.
(30:57):
That's why I said for better for worse to be
on to praving. In fact, I had a case because
you know, obviously I deal with Seesam, but I had
a case to where.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
I was having to.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Go through a young man's computer and stuff, and I
was having to find videos obviously of his Seesam, but
also to where he was raping, skinning, and killing the
neighborhood animals.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
So it went beyond the horrendous Sea Sam and in
to something else. It wasn't like, Okay, this is a
different area. I'm going to give this to the animal
protection people. This is now part of your role as well.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Because Sea Sam is involved.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
It's all me.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Or who or whoever's in my position, you know what
I mean. So if it was like in someone else's
jurisdiction or someone else's case, then they would.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Be doing the same thing.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
It was interesting more from a psychological perspective, it was interesting.
On our devices is everything, it's our whole life, right,
every single thing about someone is there. So when I
was going through this young man's devices and I was
processing them and examining them, I was seeing the de
(32:23):
evolution of everything. I was seeing the depravity. Continue to
do this until it got to, as we discussed much earlier,
that endpoint.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
And that was.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
That was actually pretty interesting to look at. Obviously, it
was some of the worst stuff you'll ever see naturally
when we're in when we're in real life. Let me
let me say this. When we're in real life, we're
constantly interacting with the media. Okay, we're interacting with the
middle ground.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
The Internet again, for better for worse, allows the fringes, Okay,
it allows the fringes to become more apparent. Normally, you
only see the fringes on the news, right, that's what
the whole news, that's the whole news cycle. But on
the Internet, you get to see it. Now. Whether or
not people are actually like that in real life is
(33:18):
an entirely different situation, naturally, because some people feel emboldened
by anonymity right.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Right, that they're not ever going to get caught and
they can just explore those dark areas and reality of themselves.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Absolutely in this case and absolutely, But in this case
and all my other cases, it's just this one also
had the animals involved in it, so it kind of
stepped out of my norm as unfortunate as that sounds,
all my cases allow for a telescopic viewpoint of their mindset,
(34:02):
and the one with the animals, I got to see
the various stages he was going through, the things he
would at least relate to at least at that time,
and then he would relate to something else at a
different time. And it was just interesting to kind of
keep track of that timeline because of course I have
to document all this stuff that I'm finding.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
It's sort of like he from the content that he
is consuming, it sounds almost like he is heading towards
a nihilistic violence extremist, the NVE side of all this.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Absolutely absolutely, and you know, talk about the serial killer trifecta.
One of the things involved is violence towards animals, and
then of course obviously got arson. And then what's the
other one, wedding the bed, Yeah I remember correctly, Yeah,
bed wedding. I don't know if he went the bed
(34:58):
or if he was involved in the arsen and I
have no idea, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Do you think that maybe he was on the path
to be a serial killer?
Speaker 4 (35:06):
Going by what I saw, that would not be far off. Yeah, potentially,
And you caught him.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
And thankfully, I will say this, I came in at
the tail end. The agency that we were helping out
actually did all that work, and they did a wonderful
job with their interview. He admitted everything. He was actually
incredibly cooperative too, incredibly so, so they did all that
leg work. I don't want to take any credit from them.
(35:33):
They absolutely killed it unintended, I guess.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
But it's I kind of same things like I'm not
going to say it there.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, but they did a wonderful job. I just came
in and did my role, so I was only just
carrying the torch that they had already lit.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
So yeah, heroes, true heroes, And I love that we
had that moment of levity because that dark humor is
what I love kind of most law enforcement. I have
so many friends who are in law enforcement in this field,
and I seem to get them and they seem to
get me in a big part of it is that
we've both looked into the darkness and into the monster's face,
(36:14):
but that that dark humor really can get you through it.
Speaker 6 (36:20):
Well.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
When you're walking through hell and you're staring it seems
like the devil in the face at times, it's probably
really good to laugh in its face.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Yeah, if you can laugh, you can think, because in
order for you to laugh, you have to process things right,
you have to find the humor in it. So that
kind of helps me be like, well, I have time
(36:53):
if I can laugh at this, Lord knows, I have
time to be able to process it. I have time
to be able to address it versus the oh my god.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
What am I gonna do? What I'm I gonna do?
What I'm gonna do.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
See, and you're so good about using your skills that,
as you've said, have been blessed.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
With and your talents to really.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Push your cases forward as a coping mechanism that you
sang to this little girl, and you were able to
get her to open up and to feel better. You
gave her a moment of peace and that contentment when
you were there and you stepped in, and she must
have felt like, oh, the good guys are here now,
and you sang to her, and I'm just on top
(37:38):
of everything else. Right, you are this singer, your handle right,
opera ranger. You are an opera singer. And I'm just like,
when did you find out you could do that? Like
were you just singing in the shower one day and
you were like, damn, I'm really good at this. I
should press up like my favorite character and sing to
people like how did that happen?
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Uh? Well, apparently my dad was a trial attorney. So
my father was a trial attorney before he passed, and
he always had that booming, commanding voice. He always knew
(38:23):
something up. Because I think I turned like not what
was it like eleven or twelve, you know, when I
was starting to go through puberty and yeah, and I
started to sound like him. And my dad would sing
a lot of songs and you know, like, uh my,
(38:45):
one of my dad's favorite songs was they call the
Wind Mariah, and it's like way out here. They got
a name for rain and wind and fire. The rainest
tests the fire is Joe, and they call the wind Mariah. Well,
I would hear my dad sing that all the time,
and I started to mimic him. And my dad always
(39:08):
had that again, like I said, that deep booming voice.
And then my mother, my mother's been on stage plays
for years. She was singing while pregnant with me. So
I've been around that type of thing for a long.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Time before you were born.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Obviously, and so yeah, and then within the past few
years I even started to formally take vocal lessons. And
don't get me wrong, I took vocal lessons when I
was in college, but I didn't even know I could
sing until my senior year of high school. I was
in the car with a young lady friend of mine
and we were I think we were heading to lunch
(39:49):
or something, and she heard someone singing and I had
System of a Down. I love system of Down. I'm
a big heavy metal guy. I love system of Down.
And I was singing aerials, and apparently she kept hearing
someone else besides Surge singing, and she kept turning down
(40:14):
the volume and I would try to match when I
would stop singing so she wouldn't know that it was me.
Needless to say, that was one time she did it
and I did not see her do it, So Surge
stop singing, but Will didn't. Will continue to sing. And
after that she looked at me and said, you're joining choir.
(40:35):
And of course, you know, this was my seni year
of high school. I literally only needed one credit to graduate.
I turned pottery into a year long class, so I
was just trying to graduate and so I just needed classes.
So I was like, all right, fine, I joined chorus,
and next thing I knew, I was in the honor choir.
(40:55):
And then when I went to college, I was in
the honor choir. My vocal code which was the honor
choir director. And then after I graduated college, I never
took voice lessons again until just a few years ago.
I started back after I met my current vocal coach
through my mother.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
I love that you have these people in your life
who helped to lead you and guide you, and that
you listen. You don't go oh no, no, no, I
only do that privately or well I'm not that good,
but you're like, oh yeah, I should go for this.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Did you ever feel like that with your singing.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Is there a moment where you were kind of like
pushing it down and then you flourished.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Absolutely, so I actually attempted to go somewhere with my voice,
and of course it didn't go anywhere, because not only
do you have to have the talent, but you so
my dad will constantly talk about how luck is preparedness
meets timing. That's all it is, preparedness meets timing.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
I like that.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
I did.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Yeah, I did not have much luck in the singing field,
so I just kind of went, it is what it is.
If I have a nice voice, that's great. So I
started singing at these conventions. I started singing for the
various Rangers. I would sing to them at the convention.
I would sing their theme song, just in opera form,
so like.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
The Rangers themselves, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
So, like no one will therefore take them down. The
power lies on their I I.
Speaker 5 (42:36):
Ranger.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
So and I would do that for all the different
theme songs, and you know, of course they loved it.
You know, they would draw crowds to them and blah
blah blah. But it was my way of giving back
to them, because obviously they mean a lot to me,
So it was in it was my way of saying
thank you. I'll say, it's just a random dude singing
(43:02):
for you. So it's not like I'm doing much for them,
But in my head I was it is.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
What it is.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
You're talking that down.
Speaker 6 (43:10):
I know that they loved it.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
It was that they were very they were very complimentary.
I'll say that they were very complimentary. But one day
I was at my mom's house and my mom loves
singing obviously, as I kind of explained earlier, and I
was singing Memory from Cats. I actually really liked that song.
Yeah I love that song. And next thing I know,
(43:37):
this random woman comes up to me and she's like,
I would love to sing with you, and essay, who's
this And my Mom's like, hey, remember that woman. I
told you that was like doing the whole Broadway thing
for like a long time. I was like, yeah, that's her.
Oh oh okay, oh wow yeah. And so then she's like,
let me sing, yeah preparedness versus timing or with and
(44:02):
so I was like okay, and she's like, well sing
with me, and so she wanted to sing All I
Ask of You from Phantom of the Opera.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
No, that wasn't happening.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
At the end of that song, there's a key change.
I'm a bass baritone, barely's my favorite part of the song.
And I was like, that's a tenor. That is a tenor.
And she looks at me and goes, no, you can
do it. You can do it, and I was like, no,
I can't. She's like, you can just shut up and sing, okay.
(44:38):
So we started singing, and of course this was the
first time I never had to hold my volume back.
I never had to control my power quote unquote like
the the big voice. I never had to do any
of that. And I was genuinely amazed. And then we
get to the part right before the key change, and
she turns and looks at me and says, don't leave
(45:01):
my eyes. Focus here, find my placement, find my timing,
and just sink. So for that whole time, our eyes
never met. And then we came in perfectly together and
I hit all of the notes perfectly. That never happened before.
And then as soon as we finished, she said, all right,
(45:22):
it's cool. So when are you coming over for lessons?
Speaker 1 (45:27):
I didn't, you didn't What did you say?
Speaker 4 (45:32):
I did not.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
I simply told her, I said, no, I'm okay, but
thank you, that's very kind of you. I'm just not
really interested in pursuing that. A few months passed, I
think it was like maybe two months, and I was
mowing the lawn and something came over me, and I
was like, all right, if the Lord is gonna bless
me with a voice, then who am I to not
(45:56):
be a good steward of it. I don't know if
something's going to come from it. I have no idea.
I've kind of already done the amazing thing. I was
able to sing to a victim. I was able to
cheer her up. And she wasn't the only child that
I ended up singing for obviously throughout my years a
SVU and ICAC, but like, to me, that's the pinnacle.
(46:17):
I have no idea what's going to happen, but it's
still a gift and I still need to take care
of and I still needed to harness and cherish and
all that kind of stuff. So I called up my
mom and she says, she's been waiting for you, And
next thing I know, I've been her vocal student for
the past few years now, and my voice has grown exponentially.
(46:40):
Apparently my voice is now over three octaves.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
When you're working with victims and survivors, you sang, and
you said you sing to them. But do your does
your hobbies or your your talents or those do you
use them in any other ways, your interests, whatever it
might be, when working with especially children.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Yeah, so like I'll so, for example, the shirt that
I'm wearing right now, I have a few of these.
Unfortunately I am out growing them. I was about one
hundred and eighty pounds when I first got these. Now
I'm about two fifteen two ten. So that's fun getting fat,
but I bet it's muscle. I would wear these two
(47:29):
interviews with children because I'm certified to forensically interview children.
So there's a lot that goes into that, but kids
see it because of course, the idea is to get
the child comfortable enough to where they feel comfortable talking
about why they're there, if they even know why they're there,
if that makes sense, and so like they'll see, oh
(47:50):
my god, that's butterfree and they'll know it right off
the bat. Next thing I know, I'm a best friend.
Or I still keep up with video games I'm not
much of a gamer myself. I still dabble in some
If it's digimond game, I'm playing it, no questions asked.
Like the recent Time Stranger I cried at the end,
not even kidding.
Speaker 4 (48:06):
But I still keep up with stuff.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
I still keep up with fandoms quote unquote, like star
Wars and stuff, even though that's not really my thing,
I still keep up with it. So when I'm talking
to these kids, they're into it, or I'll find something
they're into, and I know just enough about a lot
to get me in trouble if you.
Speaker 4 (48:27):
Catch my drift.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
So if I can find something that they are into
and even come off like I kind of know what
I'm talking about, or if I come off genuinely interested
in what they're talking about, they'll talk. They will absolutely
talk because, like we talked about before, everybody wants to
(48:50):
be heard. So when you give someone a chance to
talk about their hobbies example example here, if you give
someone a chance to talk about their hobbies or their
interests or whatever other terms you would feel like using,
they're going to feel more comfortable talking to you in general.
And that's the same thing I do with my suspects.
(49:12):
When I talk to them. You'd be surprised how much
of my suspects I can sit here and talk to
about Anime, I can talk to about Dragon ball Z,
about all these different things. And next thing you know,
they start getting more comfortable with me and I'm able
to talk to them. And again that goes back to
the thank you, Detective Brit for treating me like a
human being. So that stuff comes out all the time,
(49:35):
all the time. Maybe not my martial arts much, but.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Yeah, I imagine it's probably I do think that could
probably be pretty useful too.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Well in different in a different situation, it's very useful.
Speaker 4 (49:49):
But not in not in.
Speaker 3 (49:50):
Communicating, No, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, yeah, you must be just not what people expect
when you walk into the room, like, oh, Detective Britt
is going to come in and ask you some questions now,
and then you roll into the room in a Pokemon shirt.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
Yeah. So just to give you a fun little I
don't know about teaser or whatever, but a fun little
tidbit about me when I was on the road, I
told you I was on the road for two years
with Coverla County Sheriff's Office. So behind me where the
cage part sat. I had a squirrel, a Pokemon squirtle
(50:33):
stuffed animal back there that when I would put someone
back there, I would turn it to where they're looking
at them what And I'd be like, yeah, so I
would turn the squirrel to look at whoever's back there,
And it was actually really interesting how people would respond
to even grown men would kind of almost start cowering
because I turned something that is so cute and innocent
(50:57):
to look back at them, and all of a sudden
they're just like you can see them visibly like trying
to avoid eye contact with the stuffed animal. Yeah, Squirtle
is my is my favorite starter. So yeah, I just
loving you.
Speaker 3 (51:12):
You're really in the moment, you.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Respond to what is needed at the time, and it's
really it's really beautiful and.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
I'm so glad.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
As silly as the sounds, I really am so glad
that you exist, and I'm so glad that I get
to know you, and I'm so glad that so many
victims get to know you, and I'm really glad that
so many perpetrators get to know you on maybe their
worst day.
Speaker 4 (51:50):
Well, thank you. It's also a blessing to know you
as well.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
Miss Alicia, Miss Alicia, we're very farm on now, mister
brit very nice Bridge.
Speaker 3 (52:03):
We've talked so much.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
We've talked about some stories, we've talked about the work
that you do and in the unique way that you
do it, and when people talk about true crime.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
So that's one of the things I did not want
this podcast to really be. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
It might be under a true crime label, and that's
perfectly cool, and I would love true crime people who
like true crime to come listen to it. But what
I think of this as is like real crime, Like
what is really happening. This isn't about sensationalizing. It's not
just about telling a story and stopping it there. It
is the real child exploitation.
Speaker 3 (52:38):
It's really what's going on.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
And I'd like to know what would you what do
you want those people to know? The people who are
really into true crime and want to bring true crime
and watch true crime all the time, and this is
what they do and what they enjoy and I do
to certainly at.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
Times, But what do you want them to.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
Know about real chat exploitation and this world that you
live and work in every single day.
Speaker 4 (53:10):
The people.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
And this kind of goes over everything. So it's military,
it's all that stuff. But of course it also deals
with c SAM investigators as well. You're listening to details
of a case, right you're you're going through the and
then that eight oh three on a Tuesday, you heard
(53:33):
this and blah blah blah blah blah. The investigators that
are actually doing it. That stuff sticks with us because
we're there. Thank you for being interested in our jobs.
Speaker 4 (53:48):
One percent. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
But unfortunately, or fortunately, I guess, because we do liminate
a rather safe society, that crime is allowed to be
some type of entertainment. Just don't get it confused that
it is strictly entertainment. It only becomes entertainment afterwards. In
(54:20):
that moment, someone was killed, In that moment, a child
was abused. Just try to remember that, because again, these
stories can be fun. Obviously we're having this conversation here
(54:42):
is good. It also helps that it turns out that
a Leisha and I are actually good friends, so that
helps out a lot. But I'll follow it up with this,
no matter what you experience, no matter what you go through,
no matter what knocks you down, if you can remember
to stand back up, just focus on one thing and
(55:07):
that's focus on who you actually are. Don't ever let
that get lost. If you can keep that in mind
about who you are, where you came from, you know
things to take into account. Like I've been talking to
fram my wife about pride and vegeta.
Speaker 4 (55:32):
Dragon ball Z character. My favorite Dragon ball Z character
is this.
Speaker 2 (55:35):
Whole thing is about say in pride, the say in race,
the pretty much aliens that fight they're really going to fighting. Well,
I've always found it interesting for pride because in certain
Christian theologies, pride is one of the seven deadly sins.
Speaker 3 (55:54):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
I do not agree with that. I actually take great
pride in things, and I differentiate this is just me. Okay,
So I could be horribly wrong, because Lord knows I
have been.
Speaker 4 (56:12):
Just ask frand she'll tell you. I happily I tell you.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
But in my head, arrogance and pride or ego I
should say, and pride are two entirely different things. You
take pride in what you do, so you're going to
do it good. You're going to take pride in the
fact that you're a father or that you're a mother,
and you are going to make sure that those children
(56:37):
are taking care of you, take pride in that. You
better take pride in that, take pride in your work.
You know, the Bible will talk about the spirit of
excellence doing that type of thing. I take pride in
a lot of different things and because of that that
(56:57):
allows me to be okay with things, if that makes sense.
So just take pride in who you are and don't
forget to stand back up, because this world is going
to continue to knock you down, Like what's the what's
the the the famous Rocky quote, you know, where he's
(57:23):
talking about no one hits harder than life, you know,
but you got to get back up.
Speaker 4 (57:27):
It is what it is.
Speaker 2 (57:29):
We talked, we talked earlier about how the evil's taken over.
Of course evil's taking over it is the world. But
nothing shows more strength than still being able to smile
after staring into the abyss.
Speaker 1 (57:47):
And like you said, not losing yourself and will thank
you so much for being so unapologetically yourself and sharing that.
Speaker 3 (57:59):
It's that important message.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
I think it's so it's so inspirational because with your work,
and with anybody who works in a field where it
takes little bits of your soul, sometimes it it can
be easy to feel like you're losing yourself, and I
(58:21):
love that you are yourself, and I'm so grateful that
you again are the first guest on my podcast. Thank
you so much for joining me here tonight, and thank
you for being so open and so you, and thank
(58:41):
you for taking that you and saving lives.
Speaker 4 (58:45):
Well, thank you for having me. It was an absolute honor.
Speaker 3 (58:52):
Thank you so much for tuning in. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (58:56):
We'll be releasing new episodes every Thursday. Make sure you
check out our YouTube jenneal and hit us up on
our social media on at Alicia kozac Pot for extra
content around each episode, and please remember to subscribe on Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you get your podcasts
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