June 3, 2026 • 47 mins
On Episode 20 of The Away End podcast, Daniel is recovering from a whirlwind weekend that included watching vignettes of the UEFA Champions League final between PSG and Arsenal on his phone's screen as he was being called to make an important speech. A discussion about the USMNT's win over Senegal leads to a discussion about Mauricio Pochettino's questionable approach of dismissing players like Diego Luna from the 26-man roster via email. John gets a vuvuzela and does his Spain deep dive and Daniel tells a musical story about a song sweeter than hummingbird nectar.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello, and welcome to the Away And I'm John Green.
I'm Danielle Alarcon. I have no idea what's happening today?
Don help me. Yeah, Daniel just got back from a
trip to New York. So, Daniel, We've got two topics
to start today. We want to talk about the Champions
League final, because as an Arsenal fan, I want to
get your perspective on that, the difference between a league
(00:28):
title and a Cup title, how you're feeling in the
wake of losing a heartbreaking lee on penalties to PSG.
But I also want to talk about the pre World
Cup friendlies and what it says about us as human
beings that we inevitably place weight on these games, even
(00:48):
though logically we know they mean nothing.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yes, okay, so I have a couple things to say.
Let me start with the Champions League final.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
So I was in New York, and then I flew
to UH Milwaukee, and then I was in UH. I
took a car to Racine and I was there for
the When you when this, I'm sorry about this, I'm
gonna name drop my fellowship. But when you win uh
A MacArthur, you have like a at the beginning you
go to this place in Racine and meet you know
(01:18):
you other fellows, and then at the end you go
and you meet other fellows again, and you also meet
people from the new class of fellows.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Right, So it's super cool because.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Everyone's like really incredible and and very inspiring. If I
had known that Arsenal's gonna make the champas Leaue final,
I would have skipped this incredible event. But I had
no idea obviously, and it it was. It was a
huge honor because they asked me to present and I
was like very excited. My presentation was two in the
(01:50):
afternoon on Saturday, uh Central time. So the game I
basically watched the lat the penalty kicks on my phone.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Wow, Gabrielle, that is a true love of the MacArthur
genius grants that you were willing to sacrifice like that.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Gabrielle skied the last penalty and then the our host
was like, I'd like you to like momentsly, like a
minute later, like thirty seconds later, was like, I'd like
you know to to you know, Bene, why don't you
come on up and tells what you do? And so uh,
I mentioned this because one I'm not at all disappointed
(02:27):
in the season. I'm super proud of this team. They
did incredibly well. To have held PSG, like the most
potent attacking force in European and world football, to a
penalty kick and basically nullified them for one hundred and
twenty minutes is a huge accomplishment. To lose on penalty
kicks could go either way, you know, even if it's
(02:49):
disappointing that their goalkeeper never had to make a save
and you know, as in Gabrielle mister, their PK's, you know,
miss the target completely. What a season?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
What a season?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I felt enough but pride. And when I stepped up
in stage, I'm in front of these other folks who
are just brilliant and inspiring and doing really cool things
in all these incredible fields and scientists and and you know,
harm reduction specialists and music critics and poets and filmmakers.
And I was on stage with this scholar who investigates
(03:20):
the transnational gun trade and how American weapons have helped
spark and sustain the Mexican cartels. So fascinating, I almost
immediately forgot about the game. It was actually like the
worst as a fan, you know, because I was able
to watch part of the second half end up until
(03:41):
the heartbreak. But then in the post game, you know,
I spent the afternoon with these brilliant people and I
was just like, ah, man, you know, we did so great,
this is great. I'm so lucky, you know, so I'm
fine good.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I think that if you enjoyed the overall approach to
the game that both teams took, you would love third
tier English football because it was very long ball focused.
It was a lot of midfield duels for headers. It
(04:17):
was like watching the world's best players play the style
of football that mediocre teams have to play. It was
really fascinating game from that perspective because anytime, you know,
they would switch switch the field of play with a
long cross or whatever, I would be astonished because it
would just land at the absolute right place and then
(04:41):
the you know, the player on the ball would have
a silky smooth first touch. But overall, like the approach
to the game, those big long balls, you know, not
trying to play it out of the back, had had
very third tier English football vibes. So I think that
you would enjoy watching AFC Wimbledon. Well, I can't if
they exist. Yes, I can't wait. They the I mean,
(05:04):
you know, I'm on this big soccer chat with my
friends in New York from five.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Borough, you know, the we've already established that everyone hates Arsenal,
and that's fine, but the you know, the the vitriol
that I heard after the game. I just had to
mute the chat because I was like, really, I mean,
I didn't watch it, uh so, so it's hard for
me to argue yeah or name about their analysis. But
(05:30):
it did feel like, uh, you know, I heard adjectives
like cynical and cowardly.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
No Arteta, you know, like no practical and realistic from
Arteta and not that is so good. Yeah, and it's
beautiful in its way, right, Like, it's beautiful in a
different way. You have to pay a different kind of attention,
but it's beautiful in its way. And by the way,
I find a lot of times when teams play out
of the back, it's excruciatingly boring because the team making,
(05:59):
the player making the vast majority of passes is a
center back, right, and it's just not as to me,
that's not as thrilling as watching, you know, somebody fight
for the ball in midfield and then try to distribute
the ball. It just depends on what kind of football
you like, and you've been trained to.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Like, right right, yeah, I mean you know, I'm gonna
be a fan regardless, you know, whether I like the
football or not. But it did strike me that the
approach against the team as good as PSG had to
be to try to nullify their potent attack any way
possible and hit them on the brake. And you know,
(06:37):
for sixty seven seventy minutes I was working until the
Uspondanballe penalty. So you know, they have such incredible players.
I just don't think that it would have been smart
to try to go toe to toe. Ask Byron how
that went, you know, right right?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
No, I agree. I think it was the most realistic play.
I also think it was, like I said, beautiful in
its way. And I think Arsenal had a great season.
I'm glad that you can see the join in it.
I mean, the difference between the thirty eight game season
win is that you kind of know it's coming, you
kind of or at least that there's a good chance
(07:14):
that it's coming. In a cup final, anything can happen
that makes it more exciting In some ways, it also
makes it a little less meaningful. I think, like I think,
if you ask Arsenal fans at the beginning of the
season whether they'd rather win the Premier League or win
the Champions League, I think most would say they'd rather
win the Premier.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
League absolutely hundred percent. You know, now that we've won
the Premier League, I would definitely want to win the
Champions League. But if I could only pick one of
the of the the mythical quadruple, you know, for sure,
the League, for sure, because the league, you know cup
as we're going to see this World Cup. You know,
(07:53):
in a knockout tournament, anything can happen. But if you
really want to see who's the best team about among
a group, then have them play thirty games and then
and then you'll see, you know, right, And I do
think that for Arsenal fans, for the vast majority of
Arsenal fans, winning the league and getting that off our
back and that release and then having this disappointment is
only going to fuel them more. I mean, you know,
(08:13):
Liverpool made it to a final and lost, and then
the next season they won. I mean PSG made it
to a final and lost, and then a couple of
seasons later they won and then they won again, So
you know, this is not an uncommon trajectory, you know.
I mean, there's absolutely no guarantee that next season, you know,
we'll make it to the final or even in the semifinal,
because it's a very tough competition. However, if there's one
(08:35):
team and one manager that has experience transforming disappointment into motivation,
it's Arsenal who finished second three seasons in a row
and then finally got over the line this year, so
we'll see.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, well, I like your take on it. I'm glad
you're not sad. That makes me happy, and I I,
for the record, don't hate Arsenal and don't understand all
the hate that Arsenal gets other than we hate who's good? Hm, yes,
but you're you must admit you're sort of kind of benevolent.
Neutrality towards Arsenal is colored by your love for me.
(09:09):
That's true. That's true. That's and my magnanimity towards Arsenal
is also colored by the fact that Liverpool have won
the league twice in the last five years, so it's
easy to be a good winner.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Good for you, good for you, Hey, let's talk about
the US against Senegal. A Polisic found the net. Apparently, yes,
he assisted and he scored. I watched the game while
signing my name over and over again. I'm signing eighty
five thousand copies of my new book, and so I
have a lot of time to.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Watch football right now, and it was I think. The
first thing I'd say is that it was reasonably enjoyable
as a football match, which for the US men's national
team feels borderline miraculous. The second thing I'd say is
that when you beat Senegal, who are at least according
to Daniel and me, the reigning Afcon champions, having at least,
(10:00):
according to Daniel and Me, Morocco, who themselves went to
the semifinals of the last World Cup, you start to
think it's possible. You start to think it's possible, and
then you pause, go on, go on. Then you pause
and realize that Senegal's midfield was made of players who
(10:24):
will not start in the World Cup, and the US's
midfield was made hopefully partly of players who will not
start in the World Cup, but definitely partly of players
who will, And so you have to temper expectations a
little bit. I don't know for sure that we're going
to the semifinals of the World Cup, Daniel, but I
do feel better than I did yesterday.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, I think everybody is entitled to a little bit
of optimism. The great thing about friendlies is that you
can really there this rushack test where you can really
see whatever you want to see. Right if your team loses,
you could be like, it's just a friendly. If your
team plays well, that you can say it was a statement,
you know. I do think that we put a lot
(11:05):
of of We tend to read a lot into the
friendlies that come right before big tournaments, obviously. Yeah, and
it is approaching crunch time, and you do have to
consider that these players, many of them are you know,
this is their last chance to impress their manager to
(11:25):
see if they get in the team. You know, they've
made the squad, I mean, they've made the team, but
they haven't made the starting eleven. So they want to
be in the coach's plans, you know. I mean, presumably
in a twenty six man roster, there aren't many passengers
over the course of a tournament, but.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
This is their chance.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
So even if it's a small, you know, an easily
dismissible sample size. I do think that players are out
there trying, you know, and that's for sure, that's all
you can say.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And trying a little harder than they might try in
I mean, they're always trying, right, But like when you
play a lot of friendlies, you know what's at stake,
which is nothing. What's at stake now is a little
bit more. I will say, though, that we read a
lot into these friendlies for I think a human psychology reason,
which is that when we are looking forward to something
(12:16):
big or something important is about to happen, we read
tea leaves, just on a totally different level. Right like
before a presidential election, I, for one, spend a lot
of time looking at prediction sites and looking at trying
to understand what's going to happen, because what's going to
happen has a big impact on the country where I
live and the people I love and all that stuff.
(12:38):
And I think the same is true obviously in a
lesser way for football tournaments, where we have so little
information about what's actually going to happen in the World Cup,
and so we spend a lot of time and energy
thinking about, well, what's going to happen in the World Cup.
Let's figure it out from these friendlies, when in fact
they tell us very little. They tell us that Senecal
weren't playing their best players, and if they were playing
(12:59):
their best players might have been a different game. We
also won three too, It's not like we won seven
to one.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Sure, sure, sure, Sure? What did you think of Budgetino's
Two things? About Buchettino one sort of picking his team
and then telling the players who were on the bubble
who didn't make the team by email, and to what
was revealed last week by The Athletic that he has
(13:25):
been in conversations already for his next gig at AC Milan.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I think it's pretty clear. Like I've been watching the
documentary on HBO Max about the US men's national team,
and I think it's pretty clear there's a disconnect between
the players and the manager in this cycle. I don't
know how it's to say it. I mean that's what
it seems like from watching everything else. And I think
(13:50):
telling the twenty seventh guy that he's not going to
the World Cup from an email is pretty close to
coward I would say. I think I think it shows
a lack of person and I'll be interested to see
your take on this, but I just think it shows
a lack of respect for the US men's national team
(14:13):
that maybe you see elsewhere in patches overall manner where
he you know, doesn't think this is a great footballing nation.
And he's not wrong, right right, I was thinking about it.
I'm like, I'm I'm just old enough to have not
ever been broken up with on text. I have been.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I feel like I just didn't have a smartphone, like
I didn't text, you know, and not that I wasn't
broken up with. Yeah, you know, my fair share of time.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
I got broken up with by on flip phone text.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Oh really, man?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah type that like the like, yeah yeah, she had
to hit the W button three times to write a t.
It's that's how bad she didn't want to talk to me.
It's me.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Wow, Like she got Carporol tunnels telling you that.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, yeah, she had to work hard for that breakup text. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
No, so my breakups came over the phone or in
person or like you know, in a public place, so
I wouldn't make a scene or whatever. But I do
think I agree with you. I think it's super cowardly.
I think these are young men who really have given
everything for the team, you know, for whom making a
World Cup is a dream, and they've been you know,
(15:32):
in and around the conversation. Some of them, like diggol Lune,
I think, deserved to be on the team. Yeah, and
then to just sort of like a callous email like
this was like an hr you know, sort of like
thing feels not very not very humane, you know, And
(15:52):
then you know, I read that and I was like, well,
you know, he said his whole take was like look
when you know, if I if I get cut, like
there's nothing else I want to talk about. I don't
want to talk to the person who just cut me,
you know. But I do think the other interpretation of
that is that it's, you know, when you find out
that then he's out sort of looking for his next
job or his you know agents are out, you know,
(16:14):
sort of looking for his next job. I think it
feels of a piece, you know, it feels like, yeah,
this is this is a stepping stone, this is not
he's not fully invested. And you know, hopefully I'm wrong
and the US Men's Central team does very well and we'll.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
See one of My big worries here is that US
Soccer will overcorrect from their over correction like they tend to,
and when Pochettino leaves, they'll hire some American raw raw
coach who you know, I don't want to I know,
(16:49):
Bob Bradley's a friend of the show, so I don't
want to throw him under the bus. But they'll hire
Bob Bradley, right, Like, they'll hire the equivalent of Bob Bradley,
or maybe they'll really hire Bob Bradley or Lexi Lovelas
or something like.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
That, like, yeah, I could or like kid Rock. You know,
they are Kid Rock as the new manager. It's like
it's like Ted Lasso but opposite day.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yeah, exactly. Eric Trump is manager. Yeah, I could see that.
I could see that we looked Hilo and we found
the best coach who was available. You could argue, Laura,
you could.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Argue Pochettino is is just too good of a manager.
I mean, he would argue this, I'm sure, but of
a manager for this, for this team. And I feel
like if that's how you if that's how you think,
if that's what you think, then you shouldn't take the job.
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
He clearly thinks he's too good of a manager for
this team, and that's such a counterproductive from them. Absolutely
should not take the job from the moment that job
is available to you. If you think you're too good
for it and you can't hind the fact that you
think you're too good for it, you shouldn't take.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, exactly, exactly, that's not gonna that that kind of
self doubt is gonna filter onto the pitch. And the
players are smart, intuitive young men who understand the game
even if it's not at your level, or if you
perceive it to not be at your level, and they're
gonna know, they're gonna know that you don't trust them anyway.
(18:23):
We'll see, we'll see what happens. I just want to
send a shout out to Dago Luna, who I think
should have been on the team.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Absolutely should have been on the team. I mean, one
for his goal scoring ability, but also if for no
other reason, then you need someone on the team who's
who works harder than everyone else on the pitch, and
he does, and sure that's a very valuable thing to
happen in the locker room, even if it's even if
he doesn't start every game, Yeah for sure, but I
don't think Paja understands a locker room. All right, we're
(18:48):
gonna go. We're gonna go to a break before I
criticize Mauricio Pocheccino anymore, and then we'll be back to
talk about Spain.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
We're back at the away end, and John, you're gonna
take us on a deep dive where we're going today.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
So we have deep dived into many national football teams
here on the away end. But it occurred to me
that we are now very close to the tournament itself
and we have not doven deep. I'm not sure that
I crushed that grammatically, but you know there's only one
MacArthur genius Grant on this podcast. We have not doven
(19:33):
deep into what I think will be the winners of
this year's World Cup. La Roja Spain. Now you'll recall
Dannuel that Spain won the World Cup in twenty ten,
the South Africa World Cup, by the way, slightly off topic,
I just got a vuvuzela. You remember at South Africa
World Cup there were these long plastic horns that made
(19:55):
a tremendous amount of noise, drowning out all the chanting
and singing, and it was just all vuvuzelle all the time.
And I have to admit I was a little bit
judgmental of the voovozella. During the twenty ten World Cup.
I enjoyed hearing a different noise than I usually hear
when watching football, but I did miss the singing. And
I got a vovoo zella and discovered that it is
(20:20):
completely impossible to have a voozella and not use it
all the time. So I use it to call the
kids to dinner, much to the chagrin of my spouse.
You know you can. It can be heard in the
whole house, It can be heard in the whole neighborhood. Frankly,
I can just go outside if the kids are riding
their bikes and voozella to bring them back home. I
use it all the time. I use the vouvizella. I
(20:42):
would if I could be using the vuvuzela right now
in this podcast. Wow, I hate the voozzella. I yeah,
well you've never had one, buddy.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Well, it's like trying to enjoy the World's Beautiful game
while on a airport tarmac. You know, It's just it's
like the visual from the world's greatest sporting spectacle. The
sound from the dungeons of Port Authority, where all the
(21:15):
busses are like revving their engines, you know, like hell no,
John uh so, well tell you in New York when
we see when we see you.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, it's gonna be hard to not to not bring
it to New York when I see you. But anyway,
but somehow Spain overcame the sound of vuvuzela's and won
the twenty ten World Cup. Also, they have won three
of the last five Euros. They are proper good. I mean,
(21:45):
there's so much randomness in knockout competition football. You can
get a red card, you can make a silly mistake,
you can like we saw in the Champions League final,
have like a bounce of the ball, gole go the
wrong way and give up a goal. Like all kinds
of things can happen. But Spain have shown this amazing
discipline alongside incredible skill some of the best passing distribution
(22:05):
in the game. That really sets them apart in Europe
and in global football. They also have some of the
best young players in the world. They have Pedri who
is twenty three Barcelona player who plays in the midfield,
absolute joy to watch, incredible first touch, incredible passer of
the ball. They have Govi who is only twenty one,
who is his Barcelona teammate, and of course there is
another Barcelona player eighteen year old Lamina Mal. I can't
(22:29):
believe Lamina mal is eighteen years old, Daniel, when we
first met you and me and Sean thirty three years ago,
we were about the age that Lamina mal was when
he first got nominated for the ballon d'Or.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Wow, oh man, he's an amazing player to watch. Have
you seen the photo of Messy bathing a young baby
Lamina Mal?
Speaker 1 (22:58):
No? He is just really is this a doctored photograph
or is this real? This is real?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Uh So when uh mal was literally a baby, they
produced some kind of calendar, uh like and for the
you know community of Barcelona fans, I guess, and there
was a casting call for a baby because they the
photographer had this idea for Messi to uh to literally
(23:24):
give this give a child a bath and the bath
the baby in the photo is le Mignamal.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Wow yeah, no, was he was he already Here's my question?
When he was a baby, was he already at Barcelona's
famous youth academy or not allowed? Do they not allow
you to go to the youth academy till you're two
or three?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Right? Were he was wearing cleats in the photo. Yeah, no,
he was not yet. I mean he was literally could
not walk. He was a he was a month baby.
I don't know if it's a weird photo. It's a
it's like it's like a you know, has this weird
like sort of religious connotation of you know, uh, and
yet John the Baptist baptizing Jesus. Yes, and it's real
(24:11):
and it and it actually happened, and it does feel
like this kind of passing you know, of the guard
you know, yeah, or like like he was he was,
he was like blessed with the gift. So we'll see.
I'll send it to you. It's it's worth it, it's
worth a look.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah. The only thing I'll say about this is that
you also took a photo with Messy and it did
not make you a better footballer. So I don't know
that that is the key. But something happened to Leminia Mall.
I mean, obviously he was raised in Barcelona's famous training academy.
I think Gavi and Pedrie both were too. It's incredible.
It's Lamasilla. Am I saying that right? And it's incredible.
(24:51):
It's incredible what they're able to accomplish just by denying
hundreds of talented footballers access to education and they're five
or six years old.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Wow, that was judgmental, all right, go on.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Plus, they've got one of the best goalkeepers in the world,
your beloved David Rayah, who probably won't even start because
he's behind Una Simone. So Spain really have it all
the best young players. They also have some experience. They
have one of the world's best professional leagues to draw
players from. The weather's nice. They have universal healthcare. As
an American, I am a bit offended by their abundance.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Can I say what they don't have? Yes, they don't
have any players from Real Madrid. They don't have any
players from Real Madrid. And that's the first time I
think in the modern era that they have taken no
Real Madrid players to the World Cup. Now, this is
partly a result of the internationalization of football Real Madrid
for more non Spanish players, but it's partly an indictment
(25:58):
of Real Madrid, especially given what has been able to
do with their training academy, and I mean Barcelona now
saying two hundred three hundred million dollar players year after
year after year, and Madrid's you know, buying Trent Alexander Arnold. Yeah,
I mean, I think it does sort of demonstrate, not
not to sidetrack you from your Spain deep dive, but
(26:18):
I think it does sort of put in stark contrast
the difference between in approaches between Barcelona and Madrid, because
Madrid is the galactical model. We go out, we buy
the best players in the world, and Barcelona's like, We're
going to create the best players in the world.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
So, yeah, I agree with you. I tend to agree
with you. John. Spain is probably my pick.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Reluctantly because I always want a South American team to win,
or a Latin American team to win, or a non
European team to win.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
But they're so good.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
The women are also incredible, and the women's Barcelona team,
you know, just won the Champions League and should have
won last year, but that they lost to Arsenal. I mean,
the quality of play and quality of technical skill is
among the teams is just that at the highest level,
and what you notice, because I remember the twenty ten
(27:14):
World Cup very well that that metronomic midfield busquets chavv
and a Niesta who just kept the ball moving and
made hundreds of passes, and people were criticizing them for
being boring because you know, teams were just chasing shadows.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
You know.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
But what gets lost if you don't understand the game
is how difficult it is to make those passes and
to not lose the ball. To keep the ball for
seventy percent of a game and not lose it is
not It's not easy. It requires incredible technical skill, incredible stamina, discipline,
(27:53):
you know, movement and coordinated movement. So it's not just
like you're going on a walk about, like everyone knows
where they're got to, where they've got to be.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
And you know, one thing you.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Got to say about Spain, like whatever happens, they're going
to play their style and that is that is that
that's going to be. You know, that's like one thing
you can take to the bank. They're they're going to
play that way and they're going to force you into
pressing them and they're going to play out of the press,
and and it's basically like a challenge like, okay, you
want the ball, come ticket. It's really amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
And and it must be said that if you go
to a way and bracket dot com where I have
my current bracket, not my final bracket. We're going to
talk more about our brackets next week, but where I
have my current bracket, you will see that, at least
according to my bracket, Spain have the easiest path to
(28:47):
the semifinal, so I think most likely they're going to
have to beat teams like Portugal and Turkey to get
to the semifinal instead of teams like Brazil and France.
And yeah, it's everything is sort of pointing their way
for me this year. But the great thing about the
World Cup is that we play it on the pitch,
(29:08):
not in a spreadsheet astor is there don Portugal is
going to be really good. Portugal's good. I'm not saying
Portugal is not good. I'm just saying Portugal is not Argentina.
I don't think maybe I'm wrong. I think Portugal is.
I also, I am a little biased against Portugal because
I'm biased against forty seven year old Christiano Ronaldo, and
I probably just need to get over that.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
No, I think that I think you're right, and I
think that Portugal's better without him, you know, which is
a crazy thing to say, because he's one of the
greatest players of all time. But I think, you know,
I'll admit that I've never.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Really liked him.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
He's always come across to me as a very petulant
and sort of well, there's sort of two kinds of
people in the world.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
There's messy people and rinaldo people, and you and I
are both messy people.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yeah, I'm definitely a messy person. I did get to
see the statue that they made for him in Madda,
Portugal once. I was invited to a literally conference in
Medeta and I went and it's.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
It's so funny. Have you seen this?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Uh, the statue? So it's a it's a it's again.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
I feel like this.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
The the theme of this episode has been me describing
things to you that you've never seen, which is.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Beautiful, by the way, because who better to describe them
to me?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Well, look, there's a statue of in Medata, which is
the island off the coast of Portugal where Ronaldo was
was was raised. There's a statue a bust basically, and
I believe it's at the airport even and karenin and
I found it was coming uh as we were coming in.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
We took photographs with it, and I heard about it.
But it's basically if you had a you know, he's
a very handsome man. Ronaldo is uh and very with
a very symmetrical face, and you were like, what if
Picasso drew him, you know, and and then or what
if he were like a very handsome Ronaldo? But al
(31:05):
Moldova cast him in a movie and was like, I
need his face to be freaking crazy, right, And so
that's what it's like.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
And so you look at it.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
And you're like, that's Christino Ronaldo and you just can't
stop laughing. This can't stop laughing. It's it's beautiful in
that way that it really did spark joy in my
heart because I was like, you know, this man is
very vain, right, and to see to like sort of
like be at the unbailing and be like, oh someone
saw me that way, it's just incredible. I'm gonna send
(31:35):
you photographs with this. I have two things to send
you now. Lea Minamal being bathed by Messi and Christino
Ronaldo's you know, ugly statue.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
It is hard to capture the essence of somebody who's
very good looking, so that makes me happy to know
that he came across as unbeautiful. I don't know. I
don't know why I've always disliked Christiano Ronaldo so much.
I mean, there are some obvious reasons, but I just
I think he played for Manchester United. I think it's
probably that simple.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I think it's probably that Yeah, I will say, John,
there is a statue of the two of us also
at an airport. Yes, it did capture our essence perfectly.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yes, there is a statue at the Birmingham Airport. Sean,
do you know about this?
Speaker 3 (32:20):
I know that another friend of ours from high school,
who is an artist who created some concrete sculptures, is
featured in the Birmingham Airport, but I didn't know there
was also statues of you guys at the Birmingham Airport.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Statues. It's related. It's related because our friend Jan Yonder
from high school, that's the one I was talking about. Yeah,
who is an artist and designer, made benches for the
Birmingham Museum of Art that feature the seated butts of
various noted Alabamians and Daniel and I who were both
(32:56):
selected for this series. So you can sit in our
butt print at the Birmingham Airport.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Well Away and listeners, the next time you travel through Birmingham, Alabama,
please email us at Awaynpod at gmail dot com with
a picture of you and you and your friend family
member sitting in John or Daniels but imprint.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
I'd like to apologize in advance to anyone who's going
to sit there because I remember very clearly I was
in Chicago and Yon came and he brought this kind
of weird thing that I had to sit on to
imprint yeah, my ass, and I just am not well
endowed in the ass department, and so.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Basically had to like, you know, it's it's it didn't work.
It didn't work. There's not a lot of imprint there,
you know. So you're not going to really enjoy your
seating experience on that bench, at least on my side.
I don't know, John, maybe your side is more or
as an ample.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
No, it's not because I am not well endowed in
the butt department either. But but in addition to that,
when the imprint was made, I probably weighed forty pounds
less than I do now, so I don't think I
can sit in my own buddy. Well, this took a turn.
We began with one anyway, the World Cup. Yeah, here,
(34:28):
we'll be back after a break. All right, We're back
on the wand and Daniel, I think you have a
story for us.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
I do have a musical story, John. This is a
short one because I was on a plane or been
flying a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
But I want to manue.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
We got a lot of email about the World Cup song, yeah,
and about World Cup song past in the past, and
the new song, of course is from Shakira. And I'm
living in Botas, so I'm legally prohibited from saying a
bad word about Shakira of course. So also random story.
My wife's cousin was Shekirra's first boyfriend, and so Kardina
(35:19):
remembers meeting Shaki, as she calls her, when she was
like seventeen. It was just moving to Bolada to make
it big. So I'm not gonna pass judgment on Shakira
or her new World Cup song, but I do want
to talk about a song that, at least for me,
is weirdly tied to the World Cup and to my
first World Cup. I think it was also your first
World Cup and I think eighty six. So got to
(35:42):
go back to Birmingham, Alabama. Peruvian family. We get, you know,
our cable company turns on Univision for the World Cup,
and suddenly the world's greatest sporting spectacles on our television.
Would console TV like wald wall carpeting, like ugly sofa,
and that's where I spend my summer, you know, just
(36:04):
watching this and like one hundreds, thousands or millions of
children across the world, I become obsessed with Marilona, who's
my hero. Not surprisingly, I watched Argentina win the final
over West Germany and it feels and this is simplistic,
and I apologize to our German listeners, but it feels
like I've watched you know, good triumph over evil and
(36:26):
it's like this beautiful experience that changed my life. So
after the World Cup, I was obsessed. And everyone's sort
of like, you know, you give children things they're obsessed with,
So I got some. An uncle brought me a Madalona poster,
which I probably put on the wall of my bedroom,
and a posters of Socrates, who was another one of
my favorite players. And Platini was another one of my
(36:47):
favorite players, and I was just like the kid who
was obsessed with soccer and everyone knew that. So what
happened was that one of my uncles came back from Peru.
I think he must have gone to Argentina actually, and
he brought me a gift. And he brought me this
record that John I'll show you. You can see it
in our document there.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Oh yeah, this is gold. But can I just interrupt
the story just for one quick question? Sure, sometimes you
have to ask a question like on behalf of the list,
how many dang uncles do you have? Well, here's the thing,
you're always telling stories about uncles.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Well, when you're perroving in the nineteen eighties and you're
growing up in Birmingham, Alabama, any other Spanish speaking adult
male is your uncle?
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Okay, do you understand what I mean? Got it? Yes?
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yes, So that's a great question. Actually, I'm glad you
asked that because I was maybe in fifth grade and
I had to draw a family tree. And I started
drawing the family tree and I was super confused. My
mom was like, no, he's not related to it. I
was like, okay, how about this guy?
Speaker 1 (37:45):
No, they're not.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Related to his either, and it was just very confusing.
So yeah, that's a great question, John, I appreciate that.
So one of your uncles brings you this record, this record,
and the record it's Mara Alona die Go Amando Maradona.
On the cover, he has sort of a pained expression,
(38:08):
very very thoughtful, like he's in this moment of angst.
There's a microphone, he's wearing headphones like I am. It's
very handsome and this is at the height of his fame.
And the song is called Geidamia Dear Friend. It's a
song that was dedicated to his mother and to all
the mothers of the world. Very you know, this typical
(38:29):
understated style. He dedicated a song to all the mothers
in the world. So the song was produced with a
band called Panetta. I'd never heard in Panetta before. They
were an Argentine brother and sister duo who weirdly sang
these like really romantic sort of male female.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Like very you know what. They were fine, and then you.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Realize they were brother and sister and you're like, I'm
not so comfortable with this. But they were huge. They
were huge at the time. I'd never heard of them,
you know. So apparently Diego had become friends with the
band and very close friends with the sister, you know
what I mean. And out of this friendship came this song.
So after they win the World Cup in eighty six,
(39:14):
Digo can do whatever he wants. He's like the most
famous person in Argentina, one of the most fans people
in the world. But you know, Diggo loves to sing,
he loves to party, and he knew Jaquin and Lucia Gallan,
the the brother and sister duo of Pimpinella, and so
he asked him to compose a song for him that
he wants to dedicate to his mother. And they write
this song. I'm just gonna read some of the lyrics Shakespeare.
(39:37):
It is Noto and Nivida, dear friend. I've waited so
long to tell you what I feel for thinking of me,
my entire life Amiga cambeia loke Estia, dear friend. I
would change everything that I have to be by your
(40:00):
side for a moment on this day, for a word
from you, dear friend.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
My mother. It's not terrible.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
I mean, okay, fine, it's not terrible. If you're if
you're eleven year old like wrote that to your wife,
you would be really proud.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Very moved, very moved, very moved.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
But anyway, so, uh, I throw on this record because
I'm like a huge fan like Madalona. This is great. So,
I mean, I don't know what you listened to when
you were like that age John, but I was like Fugazi,
you know, minor threat, you know, like Dead Kennedy's.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Uh you're a hardcore little kid man. You were like
a fifth grader, but you were like a punk rock
fifth grader.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Yeah, So I'm like, but I love but to me,
like Manalona's punk rock, right, I mean, you know, I
just want a World Cup. He like did the Hand
of God, Like he's the total badass. So he throws
I throw on this record record vinyl because this is
nineteen eighty six. Oh my lord, it is so it
is the it is tricky. It is schmaltzy. It is
(41:11):
like like you know, you like dissolving sugar into water
and then adding syrup. You know, it's just like you know,
it is. It is like what you put in the
hummingbird feeder and like it caused John. And this isn't
so much as a story just as as much as
it is description of an emotion, that emotion when you
(41:33):
encounter this other side of your heroes that you can't
quite square with the image that you already had of
this person you admired so deeply. Right, So I'm like, wait,
this guy who is like, you know, scoring the greatest
goal of all time, who's like you know, you know,
(41:53):
getting fouled and standing up, and he's tough, and he's
you know, brilliant and creative. He in his downtime sings
these ballads that I would not like, you know, that
I just can't even stomach because they're so so triaquly.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
It really causes a lot of pain. Not pain, I'm
being dramatic, as I often will be. So it wasn't pain.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
It was just like this kind of like huh.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
But then John, I kept listening Discordance Discordance, Yes, but
I kept listening because it was Madalona. And then I
kept listening and then kept listening, and then I've was like,
all right, this is my jam. I played that record
a lot, a lot, a lot, and uh, and it
(42:38):
was just I think, you know, if Manalona could drag
his team over the line against a stacked West Germany
team in the final. He also could drag this little
budding punk rocker over the line into the world of
romantic ballads or like you know, schmaltzy pop songs. And
(42:59):
he took me there and I lived there, and I'm
not ashamed that's where I ended up.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Well, I love that you're not ashamed. I'm gonna listen
to it just for a minute and then give you
a review. Okay, oh wow, that's somehow worse than I expected.
He doesn't have a bad voice, No, he's got a
great voice. But the music, the music is so nineteen eighties.
(43:26):
It has that like tinkle. I don't know where that.
I don't know what instrument. Maybe it's a triangle that
makes that like a high pitched tinkle, but it's got
a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah wow wow, But see, you need this.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
This is one of the things about childhood is that
you don't want to be earnest. You want to have
ironic detachment. You want to be a cool kid who
listens to minor threat in Fugazi. But then when somebody
speaks earnestly to your soul, you can't help but love it,
and you almost feel ashamed about it later, you almost
feel ashamed about it even while it's happening. But you
(44:01):
need it. You need art like that. You need art
that like screams out to your soul in a totally earnest,
over the top way. And if you deny yourself that,
you deny yourself so much of human experience.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yeah, I mean, cynicism is both a reasonable response to
the world we live in and also a defense mechanism
against the world that will always disappoint you. But if
you embrace cynicism as a worldview, you're denying yourself the
possibility of real emotion. And this is what like Ed
Sheeran figured out, you know, or any of these singers
(44:41):
that just go for it. And you know, this is
what Pimpinella made a career out of, you know. And
this song, it's over the top, it's ridiculous, it's in
some way simple, but it's also lovely. And you know,
like I may have played for my mom on Mother's
Day nineteen eighty seven.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Oh and I bet she loved that. I bet she
felt like I bet she because also when your kids
are are earnest in front of you, it's so beautiful yeah,
I bet she didn't feel an ounce of cringe. I
bet she totally just loved it. Cringe hadn't been invented
in my household, and that's a great point in eighties. Yeah,
(45:22):
that's a great point. Well, cringe hadn't been invented, but
something selling out had been invented, some version of cringe
had been invented, where you could already see a world
that if you reckoned with it in a totally non ironic,
non cynical, earnest way, you were a little bit on
the wrong side of something important.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Sure, I mean, my parents didn't move to the United
States to not sell out, you know, like that wasn't
They didn't move to the U States for their artistic integrity.
They moved the United States with the intent of of
improving all of our lives. So I don't like that
that language didn't exist in our house. But I see,
I mean, I see there was a bear. There was
(46:04):
an earnest striving ethos in my household. That yeah, And
there was would have been no room or uh or
no space for cynicism in the face of a song
like Kidio Amiga. Right, it's just taking it face value,
and you know, and my parents are criers, you know,
(46:24):
like you know, my dad will listen to a song
and cry, you know, yeah, like an old song from
from where he grew up, from Atiquiba. Like I've seen
it happen, and it's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
I think it's great when a father can cry in
front of his children. I think that's a real blessing. Actually, well,
Kiera Amiga, it has been a pleasure to make a
podcast with you as always. As always, Amigo would be
the proper thing. I thought I was doing such a
good job.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
It was great, it was great. Let's just I'll be
Amiga today. I'll be Amiga today. I'm still learning. I'm
still learning.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Yeah, just the basics.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
It's almost there. Man, you're just a whisker away. You hit,
you hit the outside of the post, you know. Friends,
remember to drop us emails. We're gonna always be reading
your emails and we'll respond to more soon. Away and
pod at gmail dot com, Away and bracket dot com
if you want to share with us your wisdom and
(47:21):
prognostication skills, and we'll be talking more about that next week.
Thanks to Kurt and Sean and Thank you Don always
a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
See you next week, See you next week.
Hello, and welcome to the Away And I'm John Green.
I'm Danielle Alarcon. I have no idea what's happening today?
Don help me. Yeah, Daniel just got back from a
trip to New York. So, Daniel, We've got two topics
to start today. We want to talk about the Champions
League final, because as an Arsenal fan, I want to
get your perspective on that, the difference between a league
(00:28):
title and a Cup title, how you're feeling in the
wake of losing a heartbreaking lee on penalties to PSG.
But I also want to talk about the pre World
Cup friendlies and what it says about us as human
beings that we inevitably place weight on these games, even
(00:48):
though logically we know they mean nothing.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yes, okay, so I have a couple things to say.
Let me start with the Champions League final.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
So I was in New York, and then I flew
to UH Milwaukee, and then I was in UH. I
took a car to Racine and I was there for
the When you when this, I'm sorry about this, I'm
gonna name drop my fellowship. But when you win uh
A MacArthur, you have like a at the beginning you
go to this place in Racine and meet you know
(01:18):
you other fellows, and then at the end you go
and you meet other fellows again, and you also meet
people from the new class of fellows.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Right, So it's super cool because.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Everyone's like really incredible and and very inspiring. If I
had known that Arsenal's gonna make the champas Leaue final,
I would have skipped this incredible event. But I had
no idea obviously, and it it was. It was a
huge honor because they asked me to present and I
was like very excited. My presentation was two in the
(01:50):
afternoon on Saturday, uh Central time. So the game I
basically watched the lat the penalty kicks on my phone.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Wow, Gabrielle, that is a true love of the MacArthur
genius grants that you were willing to sacrifice like that.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Gabrielle skied the last penalty and then the our host
was like, I'd like you to like momentsly, like a
minute later, like thirty seconds later, was like, I'd like
you know to to you know, Bene, why don't you
come on up and tells what you do? And so uh,
I mentioned this because one I'm not at all disappointed
(02:27):
in the season. I'm super proud of this team. They
did incredibly well. To have held PSG, like the most
potent attacking force in European and world football, to a
penalty kick and basically nullified them for one hundred and
twenty minutes is a huge accomplishment. To lose on penalty
kicks could go either way, you know, even if it's
(02:49):
disappointing that their goalkeeper never had to make a save
and you know, as in Gabrielle mister, their PK's, you know,
miss the target completely. What a season?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
What a season?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I felt enough but pride. And when I stepped up
in stage, I'm in front of these other folks who
are just brilliant and inspiring and doing really cool things
in all these incredible fields and scientists and and you know,
harm reduction specialists and music critics and poets and filmmakers.
And I was on stage with this scholar who investigates
(03:20):
the transnational gun trade and how American weapons have helped
spark and sustain the Mexican cartels. So fascinating, I almost
immediately forgot about the game. It was actually like the
worst as a fan, you know, because I was able
to watch part of the second half end up until
(03:41):
the heartbreak. But then in the post game, you know,
I spent the afternoon with these brilliant people and I
was just like, ah, man, you know, we did so great,
this is great. I'm so lucky, you know, so I'm
fine good.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I think that if you enjoyed the overall approach to
the game that both teams took, you would love third
tier English football because it was very long ball focused.
It was a lot of midfield duels for headers. It
(04:17):
was like watching the world's best players play the style
of football that mediocre teams have to play. It was
really fascinating game from that perspective because anytime, you know,
they would switch switch the field of play with a
long cross or whatever, I would be astonished because it
would just land at the absolute right place and then
(04:41):
the you know, the player on the ball would have
a silky smooth first touch. But overall, like the approach
to the game, those big long balls, you know, not
trying to play it out of the back, had had
very third tier English football vibes. So I think that
you would enjoy watching AFC Wimbledon. Well, I can't if
they exist. Yes, I can't wait. They the I mean,
(05:04):
you know, I'm on this big soccer chat with my
friends in New York from five.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Borough, you know, the we've already established that everyone hates Arsenal,
and that's fine, but the you know, the the vitriol
that I heard after the game. I just had to
mute the chat because I was like, really, I mean,
I didn't watch it, uh so, so it's hard for
me to argue yeah or name about their analysis. But
(05:30):
it did feel like, uh, you know, I heard adjectives
like cynical and cowardly.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
No Arteta, you know, like no practical and realistic from
Arteta and not that is so good. Yeah, and it's
beautiful in its way, right, Like, it's beautiful in a
different way. You have to pay a different kind of attention,
but it's beautiful in its way. And by the way,
I find a lot of times when teams play out
of the back, it's excruciatingly boring because the team making,
(05:59):
the player making the vast majority of passes is a
center back, right, and it's just not as to me,
that's not as thrilling as watching, you know, somebody fight
for the ball in midfield and then try to distribute
the ball. It just depends on what kind of football
you like, and you've been trained to.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Like, right right, yeah, I mean you know, I'm gonna
be a fan regardless, you know, whether I like the
football or not. But it did strike me that the
approach against the team as good as PSG had to
be to try to nullify their potent attack any way
possible and hit them on the brake. And you know,
(06:37):
for sixty seven seventy minutes I was working until the
Uspondanballe penalty. So you know, they have such incredible players.
I just don't think that it would have been smart
to try to go toe to toe. Ask Byron how
that went, you know, right right?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
No, I agree. I think it was the most realistic play.
I also think it was, like I said, beautiful in
its way. And I think Arsenal had a great season.
I'm glad that you can see the join in it.
I mean, the difference between the thirty eight game season
win is that you kind of know it's coming, you
kind of or at least that there's a good chance
(07:14):
that it's coming. In a cup final, anything can happen
that makes it more exciting In some ways, it also
makes it a little less meaningful. I think, like I think,
if you ask Arsenal fans at the beginning of the
season whether they'd rather win the Premier League or win
the Champions League, I think most would say they'd rather
win the Premier.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
League absolutely hundred percent. You know, now that we've won
the Premier League, I would definitely want to win the
Champions League. But if I could only pick one of
the of the the mythical quadruple, you know, for sure,
the League, for sure, because the league, you know cup
as we're going to see this World Cup. You know,
(07:53):
in a knockout tournament, anything can happen. But if you
really want to see who's the best team about among
a group, then have them play thirty games and then
and then you'll see, you know, right, And I do
think that for Arsenal fans, for the vast majority of
Arsenal fans, winning the league and getting that off our
back and that release and then having this disappointment is
only going to fuel them more. I mean, you know,
(08:13):
Liverpool made it to a final and lost, and then
the next season they won. I mean PSG made it
to a final and lost, and then a couple of
seasons later they won and then they won again, So
you know, this is not an uncommon trajectory, you know.
I mean, there's absolutely no guarantee that next season, you know,
we'll make it to the final or even in the semifinal,
because it's a very tough competition. However, if there's one
(08:35):
team and one manager that has experience transforming disappointment into motivation,
it's Arsenal who finished second three seasons in a row
and then finally got over the line this year, so
we'll see.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, well, I like your take on it. I'm glad
you're not sad. That makes me happy, and I I,
for the record, don't hate Arsenal and don't understand all
the hate that Arsenal gets other than we hate who's good? Hm, yes,
but you're you must admit you're sort of kind of benevolent.
Neutrality towards Arsenal is colored by your love for me.
(09:09):
That's true. That's true. That's and my magnanimity towards Arsenal
is also colored by the fact that Liverpool have won
the league twice in the last five years, so it's
easy to be a good winner.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Good for you, good for you, Hey, let's talk about
the US against Senegal. A Polisic found the net. Apparently, yes,
he assisted and he scored. I watched the game while
signing my name over and over again. I'm signing eighty
five thousand copies of my new book, and so I
have a lot of time to.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Watch football right now, and it was I think. The
first thing I'd say is that it was reasonably enjoyable
as a football match, which for the US men's national
team feels borderline miraculous. The second thing I'd say is
that when you beat Senegal, who are at least according
to Daniel and me, the reigning Afcon champions, having at least,
(10:00):
according to Daniel and Me, Morocco, who themselves went to
the semifinals of the last World Cup, you start to
think it's possible. You start to think it's possible, and
then you pause, go on, go on. Then you pause
and realize that Senegal's midfield was made of players who
(10:24):
will not start in the World Cup, and the US's
midfield was made hopefully partly of players who will not
start in the World Cup, but definitely partly of players
who will, And so you have to temper expectations a
little bit. I don't know for sure that we're going
to the semifinals of the World Cup, Daniel, but I
do feel better than I did yesterday.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, I think everybody is entitled to a little bit
of optimism. The great thing about friendlies is that you
can really there this rushack test where you can really
see whatever you want to see. Right if your team loses,
you could be like, it's just a friendly. If your
team plays well, that you can say it was a statement,
you know. I do think that we put a lot
(11:05):
of of We tend to read a lot into the
friendlies that come right before big tournaments, obviously. Yeah, and
it is approaching crunch time, and you do have to
consider that these players, many of them are you know,
this is their last chance to impress their manager to
(11:25):
see if they get in the team. You know, they've
made the squad, I mean, they've made the team, but
they haven't made the starting eleven. So they want to
be in the coach's plans, you know. I mean, presumably
in a twenty six man roster, there aren't many passengers
over the course of a tournament, but.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
This is their chance.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
So even if it's a small, you know, an easily
dismissible sample size. I do think that players are out
there trying, you know, and that's for sure, that's all
you can say.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And trying a little harder than they might try in
I mean, they're always trying, right, But like when you
play a lot of friendlies, you know what's at stake,
which is nothing. What's at stake now is a little
bit more. I will say, though, that we read a
lot into these friendlies for I think a human psychology reason,
which is that when we are looking forward to something
(12:16):
big or something important is about to happen, we read
tea leaves, just on a totally different level. Right like
before a presidential election, I, for one, spend a lot
of time looking at prediction sites and looking at trying
to understand what's going to happen, because what's going to
happen has a big impact on the country where I
live and the people I love and all that stuff.
(12:38):
And I think the same is true obviously in a
lesser way for football tournaments, where we have so little
information about what's actually going to happen in the World Cup,
and so we spend a lot of time and energy
thinking about, well, what's going to happen in the World Cup.
Let's figure it out from these friendlies, when in fact
they tell us very little. They tell us that Senecal
weren't playing their best players, and if they were playing
(12:59):
their best players might have been a different game. We
also won three too, It's not like we won seven
to one.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Sure, sure, sure, Sure? What did you think of Budgetino's
Two things? About Buchettino one sort of picking his team
and then telling the players who were on the bubble
who didn't make the team by email, and to what
was revealed last week by The Athletic that he has
(13:25):
been in conversations already for his next gig at AC Milan.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I think it's pretty clear. Like I've been watching the
documentary on HBO Max about the US men's national team,
and I think it's pretty clear there's a disconnect between
the players and the manager in this cycle. I don't
know how it's to say it. I mean that's what
it seems like from watching everything else. And I think
(13:50):
telling the twenty seventh guy that he's not going to
the World Cup from an email is pretty close to
coward I would say. I think I think it shows
a lack of person and I'll be interested to see
your take on this, but I just think it shows
a lack of respect for the US men's national team
(14:13):
that maybe you see elsewhere in patches overall manner where
he you know, doesn't think this is a great footballing nation.
And he's not wrong, right right, I was thinking about it.
I'm like, I'm I'm just old enough to have not
ever been broken up with on text. I have been.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I feel like I just didn't have a smartphone, like
I didn't text, you know, and not that I wasn't
broken up with. Yeah, you know, my fair share of time.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
I got broken up with by on flip phone text.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Oh really, man?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah type that like the like, yeah yeah, she had
to hit the W button three times to write a t.
It's that's how bad she didn't want to talk to me.
It's me.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Wow, Like she got Carporol tunnels telling you that.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, yeah, she had to work hard for that breakup text. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
No, so my breakups came over the phone or in
person or like you know, in a public place, so
I wouldn't make a scene or whatever. But I do
think I agree with you. I think it's super cowardly.
I think these are young men who really have given
everything for the team, you know, for whom making a
World Cup is a dream, and they've been you know,
(15:32):
in and around the conversation. Some of them, like diggol Lune,
I think, deserved to be on the team. Yeah, and
then to just sort of like a callous email like
this was like an hr you know, sort of like
thing feels not very not very humane, you know, And
(15:52):
then you know, I read that and I was like, well,
you know, he said his whole take was like look
when you know, if I if I get cut, like
there's nothing else I want to talk about. I don't
want to talk to the person who just cut me,
you know. But I do think the other interpretation of
that is that it's, you know, when you find out
that then he's out sort of looking for his next
job or his you know agents are out, you know,
(16:14):
sort of looking for his next job. I think it
feels of a piece, you know, it feels like, yeah,
this is this is a stepping stone, this is not
he's not fully invested. And you know, hopefully I'm wrong
and the US Men's Central team does very well and we'll.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
See one of My big worries here is that US
Soccer will overcorrect from their over correction like they tend to,
and when Pochettino leaves, they'll hire some American raw raw
coach who you know, I don't want to I know,
(16:49):
Bob Bradley's a friend of the show, so I don't
want to throw him under the bus. But they'll hire
Bob Bradley, right, Like, they'll hire the equivalent of Bob Bradley,
or maybe they'll really hire Bob Bradley or Lexi Lovelas
or something like.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
That, like, yeah, I could or like kid Rock. You know,
they are Kid Rock as the new manager. It's like
it's like Ted Lasso but opposite day.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yeah, exactly. Eric Trump is manager. Yeah, I could see that.
I could see that we looked Hilo and we found
the best coach who was available. You could argue, Laura,
you could.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Argue Pochettino is is just too good of a manager.
I mean, he would argue this, I'm sure, but of
a manager for this, for this team. And I feel
like if that's how you if that's how you think,
if that's what you think, then you shouldn't take the job.
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
He clearly thinks he's too good of a manager for
this team, and that's such a counterproductive from them. Absolutely
should not take the job from the moment that job
is available to you. If you think you're too good
for it and you can't hind the fact that you
think you're too good for it, you shouldn't take.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, exactly, exactly, that's not gonna that that kind of
self doubt is gonna filter onto the pitch. And the
players are smart, intuitive young men who understand the game
even if it's not at your level, or if you
perceive it to not be at your level, and they're
gonna know, they're gonna know that you don't trust them anyway.
(18:23):
We'll see, we'll see what happens. I just want to
send a shout out to Dago Luna, who I think
should have been on the team.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Absolutely should have been on the team. I mean, one
for his goal scoring ability, but also if for no
other reason, then you need someone on the team who's
who works harder than everyone else on the pitch, and
he does, and sure that's a very valuable thing to
happen in the locker room, even if it's even if
he doesn't start every game, Yeah for sure, but I
don't think Paja understands a locker room. All right, we're
(18:48):
gonna go. We're gonna go to a break before I
criticize Mauricio Pocheccino anymore, and then we'll be back to
talk about Spain.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
We're back at the away end, and John, you're gonna
take us on a deep dive where we're going today.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
So we have deep dived into many national football teams
here on the away end. But it occurred to me
that we are now very close to the tournament itself
and we have not doven deep. I'm not sure that
I crushed that grammatically, but you know there's only one
MacArthur genius Grant on this podcast. We have not doven
(19:33):
deep into what I think will be the winners of
this year's World Cup. La Roja Spain. Now you'll recall
Dannuel that Spain won the World Cup in twenty ten,
the South Africa World Cup, by the way, slightly off topic,
I just got a vuvuzela. You remember at South Africa
World Cup there were these long plastic horns that made
(19:55):
a tremendous amount of noise, drowning out all the chanting
and singing, and it was just all vuvuzelle all the time.
And I have to admit I was a little bit
judgmental of the voovozella. During the twenty ten World Cup.
I enjoyed hearing a different noise than I usually hear
when watching football, but I did miss the singing. And
I got a vovoo zella and discovered that it is
(20:20):
completely impossible to have a voozella and not use it
all the time. So I use it to call the
kids to dinner, much to the chagrin of my spouse.
You know you can. It can be heard in the
whole house, It can be heard in the whole neighborhood. Frankly,
I can just go outside if the kids are riding
their bikes and voozella to bring them back home. I
use it all the time. I use the vouvizella. I
(20:42):
would if I could be using the vuvuzela right now
in this podcast. Wow, I hate the voozzella. I yeah,
well you've never had one, buddy.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Well, it's like trying to enjoy the World's Beautiful game
while on a airport tarmac. You know, It's just it's
like the visual from the world's greatest sporting spectacle. The
sound from the dungeons of Port Authority, where all the
(21:15):
busses are like revving their engines, you know, like hell no,
John uh so, well tell you in New York when
we see when we see you.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, it's gonna be hard to not to not bring
it to New York when I see you. But anyway,
but somehow Spain overcame the sound of vuvuzela's and won
the twenty ten World Cup. Also, they have won three
of the last five Euros. They are proper good. I mean,
(21:45):
there's so much randomness in knockout competition football. You can
get a red card, you can make a silly mistake,
you can like we saw in the Champions League final,
have like a bounce of the ball, gole go the
wrong way and give up a goal. Like all kinds
of things can happen. But Spain have shown this amazing
discipline alongside incredible skill some of the best passing distribution
(22:05):
in the game. That really sets them apart in Europe
and in global football. They also have some of the
best young players in the world. They have Pedri who
is twenty three Barcelona player who plays in the midfield,
absolute joy to watch, incredible first touch, incredible passer of
the ball. They have Govi who is only twenty one,
who is his Barcelona teammate, and of course there is
another Barcelona player eighteen year old Lamina Mal. I can't
(22:29):
believe Lamina mal is eighteen years old, Daniel, when we
first met you and me and Sean thirty three years ago,
we were about the age that Lamina mal was when
he first got nominated for the ballon d'Or.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Wow, oh man, he's an amazing player to watch. Have
you seen the photo of Messy bathing a young baby
Lamina Mal?
Speaker 1 (22:58):
No? He is just really is this a doctored photograph
or is this real? This is real?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Uh So when uh mal was literally a baby, they
produced some kind of calendar, uh like and for the
you know community of Barcelona fans, I guess, and there
was a casting call for a baby because they the
photographer had this idea for Messi to uh to literally
(23:24):
give this give a child a bath and the bath
the baby in the photo is le Mignamal.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Wow yeah, no, was he was he already Here's my question?
When he was a baby, was he already at Barcelona's
famous youth academy or not allowed? Do they not allow
you to go to the youth academy till you're two
or three?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Right? Were he was wearing cleats in the photo. Yeah, no,
he was not yet. I mean he was literally could
not walk. He was a he was a month baby.
I don't know if it's a weird photo. It's a
it's like it's like a you know, has this weird
like sort of religious connotation of you know, uh, and
yet John the Baptist baptizing Jesus. Yes, and it's real
(24:11):
and it and it actually happened, and it does feel
like this kind of passing you know, of the guard
you know, yeah, or like like he was he was,
he was like blessed with the gift. So we'll see.
I'll send it to you. It's it's worth it, it's
worth a look.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah. The only thing I'll say about this is that
you also took a photo with Messy and it did
not make you a better footballer. So I don't know
that that is the key. But something happened to Leminia Mall.
I mean, obviously he was raised in Barcelona's famous training academy.
I think Gavi and Pedrie both were too. It's incredible.
It's Lamasilla. Am I saying that right? And it's incredible.
(24:51):
It's incredible what they're able to accomplish just by denying
hundreds of talented footballers access to education and they're five
or six years old.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Wow, that was judgmental, all right, go on.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Plus, they've got one of the best goalkeepers in the world,
your beloved David Rayah, who probably won't even start because
he's behind Una Simone. So Spain really have it all
the best young players. They also have some experience. They
have one of the world's best professional leagues to draw
players from. The weather's nice. They have universal healthcare. As
an American, I am a bit offended by their abundance.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Can I say what they don't have? Yes, they don't
have any players from Real Madrid. They don't have any
players from Real Madrid. And that's the first time I
think in the modern era that they have taken no
Real Madrid players to the World Cup. Now, this is
partly a result of the internationalization of football Real Madrid
for more non Spanish players, but it's partly an indictment
(25:58):
of Real Madrid, especially given what has been able to
do with their training academy, and I mean Barcelona now
saying two hundred three hundred million dollar players year after
year after year, and Madrid's you know, buying Trent Alexander Arnold. Yeah,
I mean, I think it does sort of demonstrate, not
not to sidetrack you from your Spain deep dive, but
(26:18):
I think it does sort of put in stark contrast
the difference between in approaches between Barcelona and Madrid, because
Madrid is the galactical model. We go out, we buy
the best players in the world, and Barcelona's like, We're
going to create the best players in the world.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
So, yeah, I agree with you. I tend to agree
with you. John. Spain is probably my pick.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Reluctantly because I always want a South American team to win,
or a Latin American team to win, or a non
European team to win.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
But they're so good.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
The women are also incredible, and the women's Barcelona team,
you know, just won the Champions League and should have
won last year, but that they lost to Arsenal. I mean,
the quality of play and quality of technical skill is
among the teams is just that at the highest level,
and what you notice, because I remember the twenty ten
(27:14):
World Cup very well that that metronomic midfield busquets chavv
and a Niesta who just kept the ball moving and
made hundreds of passes, and people were criticizing them for
being boring because you know, teams were just chasing shadows.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
You know.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
But what gets lost if you don't understand the game
is how difficult it is to make those passes and
to not lose the ball. To keep the ball for
seventy percent of a game and not lose it is
not It's not easy. It requires incredible technical skill, incredible stamina, discipline,
(27:53):
you know, movement and coordinated movement. So it's not just
like you're going on a walk about, like everyone knows
where they're got to, where they've got to be.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
And you know, one thing you.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Got to say about Spain, like whatever happens, they're going
to play their style and that is that is that
that's going to be. You know, that's like one thing
you can take to the bank. They're they're going to
play that way and they're going to force you into
pressing them and they're going to play out of the press,
and and it's basically like a challenge like, okay, you
want the ball, come ticket. It's really amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
And and it must be said that if you go
to a way and bracket dot com where I have
my current bracket, not my final bracket. We're going to
talk more about our brackets next week, but where I
have my current bracket, you will see that, at least
according to my bracket, Spain have the easiest path to
(28:47):
the semifinal, so I think most likely they're going to
have to beat teams like Portugal and Turkey to get
to the semifinal instead of teams like Brazil and France.
And yeah, it's everything is sort of pointing their way
for me this year. But the great thing about the
World Cup is that we play it on the pitch,
(29:08):
not in a spreadsheet astor is there don Portugal is
going to be really good. Portugal's good. I'm not saying
Portugal is not good. I'm just saying Portugal is not Argentina.
I don't think maybe I'm wrong. I think Portugal is.
I also, I am a little biased against Portugal because
I'm biased against forty seven year old Christiano Ronaldo, and
I probably just need to get over that.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
No, I think that I think you're right, and I
think that Portugal's better without him, you know, which is
a crazy thing to say, because he's one of the
greatest players of all time. But I think, you know,
I'll admit that I've never.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Really liked him.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
He's always come across to me as a very petulant
and sort of well, there's sort of two kinds of
people in the world.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
There's messy people and rinaldo people, and you and I
are both messy people.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yeah, I'm definitely a messy person. I did get to
see the statue that they made for him in Madda,
Portugal once. I was invited to a literally conference in
Medeta and I went and it's.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
It's so funny. Have you seen this?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Uh, the statue? So it's a it's a it's again.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
I feel like this.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
The the theme of this episode has been me describing
things to you that you've never seen, which is.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Beautiful, by the way, because who better to describe them
to me?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Well, look, there's a statue of in Medata, which is
the island off the coast of Portugal where Ronaldo was
was was raised. There's a statue a bust basically, and
I believe it's at the airport even and karenin and
I found it was coming uh as we were coming in.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
We took photographs with it, and I heard about it.
But it's basically if you had a you know, he's
a very handsome man. Ronaldo is uh and very with
a very symmetrical face, and you were like, what if
Picasso drew him, you know, and and then or what
if he were like a very handsome Ronaldo? But al
(31:05):
Moldova cast him in a movie and was like, I
need his face to be freaking crazy, right, And so
that's what it's like.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
And so you look at it.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
And you're like, that's Christino Ronaldo and you just can't
stop laughing. This can't stop laughing. It's it's beautiful in
that way that it really did spark joy in my
heart because I was like, you know, this man is
very vain, right, and to see to like sort of
like be at the unbailing and be like, oh someone
saw me that way, it's just incredible. I'm gonna send
(31:35):
you photographs with this. I have two things to send
you now. Lea Minamal being bathed by Messi and Christino
Ronaldo's you know, ugly statue.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
It is hard to capture the essence of somebody who's
very good looking, so that makes me happy to know
that he came across as unbeautiful. I don't know. I
don't know why I've always disliked Christiano Ronaldo so much.
I mean, there are some obvious reasons, but I just
I think he played for Manchester United. I think it's
probably that simple.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I think it's probably that Yeah, I will say, John,
there is a statue of the two of us also
at an airport. Yes, it did capture our essence perfectly.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yes, there is a statue at the Birmingham Airport. Sean,
do you know about this?
Speaker 3 (32:20):
I know that another friend of ours from high school,
who is an artist who created some concrete sculptures, is
featured in the Birmingham Airport, but I didn't know there
was also statues of you guys at the Birmingham Airport.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Statues. It's related. It's related because our friend Jan Yonder
from high school, that's the one I was talking about. Yeah,
who is an artist and designer, made benches for the
Birmingham Museum of Art that feature the seated butts of
various noted Alabamians and Daniel and I who were both
(32:56):
selected for this series. So you can sit in our
butt print at the Birmingham Airport.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Well Away and listeners, the next time you travel through Birmingham, Alabama,
please email us at Awaynpod at gmail dot com with
a picture of you and you and your friend family
member sitting in John or Daniels but imprint.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
I'd like to apologize in advance to anyone who's going
to sit there because I remember very clearly I was
in Chicago and Yon came and he brought this kind
of weird thing that I had to sit on to
imprint yeah, my ass, and I just am not well
endowed in the ass department, and so.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Basically had to like, you know, it's it's it didn't work.
It didn't work. There's not a lot of imprint there,
you know. So you're not going to really enjoy your
seating experience on that bench, at least on my side.
I don't know, John, maybe your side is more or
as an ample.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
No, it's not because I am not well endowed in
the butt department either. But but in addition to that,
when the imprint was made, I probably weighed forty pounds
less than I do now, so I don't think I
can sit in my own buddy. Well, this took a turn.
We began with one anyway, the World Cup. Yeah, here,
(34:28):
we'll be back after a break. All right, We're back
on the wand and Daniel, I think you have a
story for us.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
I do have a musical story, John. This is a
short one because I was on a plane or been
flying a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
But I want to manue.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
We got a lot of email about the World Cup song, yeah,
and about World Cup song past in the past, and
the new song, of course is from Shakira. And I'm
living in Botas, so I'm legally prohibited from saying a
bad word about Shakira of course. So also random story.
My wife's cousin was Shekirra's first boyfriend, and so Kardina
(35:19):
remembers meeting Shaki, as she calls her, when she was
like seventeen. It was just moving to Bolada to make
it big. So I'm not gonna pass judgment on Shakira
or her new World Cup song, but I do want
to talk about a song that, at least for me,
is weirdly tied to the World Cup and to my
first World Cup. I think it was also your first
World Cup and I think eighty six. So got to
(35:42):
go back to Birmingham, Alabama. Peruvian family. We get, you know,
our cable company turns on Univision for the World Cup,
and suddenly the world's greatest sporting spectacles on our television.
Would console TV like wald wall carpeting, like ugly sofa,
and that's where I spend my summer, you know, just
(36:04):
watching this and like one hundreds, thousands or millions of
children across the world, I become obsessed with Marilona, who's
my hero. Not surprisingly, I watched Argentina win the final
over West Germany and it feels and this is simplistic,
and I apologize to our German listeners, but it feels
like I've watched you know, good triumph over evil and
(36:26):
it's like this beautiful experience that changed my life. So
after the World Cup, I was obsessed. And everyone's sort
of like, you know, you give children things they're obsessed with,
So I got some. An uncle brought me a Madalona poster,
which I probably put on the wall of my bedroom,
and a posters of Socrates, who was another one of
my favorite players. And Platini was another one of my
(36:47):
favorite players, and I was just like the kid who
was obsessed with soccer and everyone knew that. So what
happened was that one of my uncles came back from Peru.
I think he must have gone to Argentina actually, and
he brought me a gift. And he brought me this
record that John I'll show you. You can see it
in our document there.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Oh yeah, this is gold. But can I just interrupt
the story just for one quick question? Sure, sometimes you
have to ask a question like on behalf of the list,
how many dang uncles do you have? Well, here's the thing,
you're always telling stories about uncles.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
Well, when you're perroving in the nineteen eighties and you're
growing up in Birmingham, Alabama, any other Spanish speaking adult
male is your uncle?
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Okay, do you understand what I mean? Got it? Yes?
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yes, So that's a great question. Actually, I'm glad you
asked that because I was maybe in fifth grade and
I had to draw a family tree. And I started
drawing the family tree and I was super confused. My
mom was like, no, he's not related to it. I
was like, okay, how about this guy?
Speaker 1 (37:45):
No, they're not.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Related to his either, and it was just very confusing.
So yeah, that's a great question, John, I appreciate that.
So one of your uncles brings you this record, this record,
and the record it's Mara Alona die Go Amando Maradona.
On the cover, he has sort of a pained expression,
(38:08):
very very thoughtful, like he's in this moment of angst.
There's a microphone, he's wearing headphones like I am. It's
very handsome and this is at the height of his fame.
And the song is called Geidamia Dear Friend. It's a
song that was dedicated to his mother and to all
the mothers of the world. Very you know, this typical
(38:29):
understated style. He dedicated a song to all the mothers
in the world. So the song was produced with a
band called Panetta. I'd never heard in Panetta before. They
were an Argentine brother and sister duo who weirdly sang
these like really romantic sort of male female.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Like very you know what. They were fine, and then you.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Realize they were brother and sister and you're like, I'm
not so comfortable with this. But they were huge. They
were huge at the time. I'd never heard of them,
you know. So apparently Diego had become friends with the
band and very close friends with the sister, you know
what I mean. And out of this friendship came this song.
So after they win the World Cup in eighty six,
(39:14):
Digo can do whatever he wants. He's like the most
famous person in Argentina, one of the most fans people
in the world. But you know, Diggo loves to sing,
he loves to party, and he knew Jaquin and Lucia Gallan,
the the brother and sister duo of Pimpinella, and so
he asked him to compose a song for him that
he wants to dedicate to his mother. And they write
this song. I'm just gonna read some of the lyrics Shakespeare.
(39:37):
It is Noto and Nivida, dear friend. I've waited so
long to tell you what I feel for thinking of me,
my entire life Amiga cambeia loke Estia, dear friend. I
would change everything that I have to be by your
(40:00):
side for a moment on this day, for a word
from you, dear friend.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
My mother. It's not terrible.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
I mean, okay, fine, it's not terrible. If you're if
you're eleven year old like wrote that to your wife,
you would be really proud.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Very moved, very moved, very moved.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
But anyway, so, uh, I throw on this record because
I'm like a huge fan like Madalona. This is great. So,
I mean, I don't know what you listened to when
you were like that age John, but I was like Fugazi,
you know, minor threat, you know, like Dead Kennedy's.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Uh you're a hardcore little kid man. You were like
a fifth grader, but you were like a punk rock
fifth grader.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Yeah, So I'm like, but I love but to me,
like Manalona's punk rock, right, I mean, you know, I
just want a World Cup. He like did the Hand
of God, Like he's the total badass. So he throws
I throw on this record record vinyl because this is
nineteen eighty six. Oh my lord, it is so it
is the it is tricky. It is schmaltzy. It is
(41:11):
like like you know, you like dissolving sugar into water
and then adding syrup. You know, it's just like you know,
it is. It is like what you put in the
hummingbird feeder and like it caused John. And this isn't
so much as a story just as as much as
it is description of an emotion, that emotion when you
(41:33):
encounter this other side of your heroes that you can't
quite square with the image that you already had of
this person you admired so deeply. Right, So I'm like, wait,
this guy who is like, you know, scoring the greatest
goal of all time, who's like you know, you know,
(41:53):
getting fouled and standing up, and he's tough, and he's
you know, brilliant and creative. He in his downtime sings
these ballads that I would not like, you know, that
I just can't even stomach because they're so so triaquly.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
It really causes a lot of pain. Not pain, I'm
being dramatic, as I often will be. So it wasn't pain.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
It was just like this kind of like huh.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
But then John, I kept listening Discordance Discordance, Yes, but
I kept listening because it was Madalona. And then I
kept listening and then kept listening, and then I've was like,
all right, this is my jam. I played that record
a lot, a lot, a lot, and uh, and it
(42:38):
was just I think, you know, if Manalona could drag
his team over the line against a stacked West Germany
team in the final. He also could drag this little
budding punk rocker over the line into the world of
romantic ballads or like you know, schmaltzy pop songs. And
(42:59):
he took me there and I lived there, and I'm
not ashamed that's where I ended up.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Well, I love that you're not ashamed. I'm gonna listen
to it just for a minute and then give you
a review. Okay, oh wow, that's somehow worse than I expected.
He doesn't have a bad voice, No, he's got a
great voice. But the music, the music is so nineteen eighties.
(43:26):
It has that like tinkle. I don't know where that.
I don't know what instrument. Maybe it's a triangle that
makes that like a high pitched tinkle, but it's got
a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah wow wow, But see, you need this.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
This is one of the things about childhood is that
you don't want to be earnest. You want to have
ironic detachment. You want to be a cool kid who
listens to minor threat in Fugazi. But then when somebody
speaks earnestly to your soul, you can't help but love it,
and you almost feel ashamed about it later, you almost
feel ashamed about it even while it's happening. But you
(44:01):
need it. You need art like that. You need art
that like screams out to your soul in a totally earnest,
over the top way. And if you deny yourself that,
you deny yourself so much of human experience.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yeah, I mean, cynicism is both a reasonable response to
the world we live in and also a defense mechanism
against the world that will always disappoint you. But if
you embrace cynicism as a worldview, you're denying yourself the
possibility of real emotion. And this is what like Ed
Sheeran figured out, you know, or any of these singers
(44:41):
that just go for it. And you know, this is
what Pimpinella made a career out of, you know. And
this song, it's over the top, it's ridiculous, it's in
some way simple, but it's also lovely. And you know,
like I may have played for my mom on Mother's
Day nineteen eighty seven.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Oh and I bet she loved that. I bet she
felt like I bet she because also when your kids
are are earnest in front of you, it's so beautiful yeah,
I bet she didn't feel an ounce of cringe. I
bet she totally just loved it. Cringe hadn't been invented
in my household, and that's a great point in eighties. Yeah,
(45:22):
that's a great point. Well, cringe hadn't been invented, but
something selling out had been invented, some version of cringe
had been invented, where you could already see a world
that if you reckoned with it in a totally non ironic,
non cynical, earnest way, you were a little bit on
the wrong side of something important.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Sure, I mean, my parents didn't move to the United
States to not sell out, you know, like that wasn't
They didn't move to the U States for their artistic integrity.
They moved the United States with the intent of of
improving all of our lives. So I don't like that
that language didn't exist in our house. But I see,
I mean, I see there was a bear. There was
(46:04):
an earnest striving ethos in my household. That yeah, And
there was would have been no room or uh or
no space for cynicism in the face of a song
like Kidio Amiga. Right, it's just taking it face value,
and you know, and my parents are criers, you know,
(46:24):
like you know, my dad will listen to a song
and cry, you know, yeah, like an old song from
from where he grew up, from Atiquiba. Like I've seen
it happen, and it's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
I think it's great when a father can cry in
front of his children. I think that's a real blessing. Actually, well,
Kiera Amiga, it has been a pleasure to make a
podcast with you as always. As always, Amigo would be
the proper thing. I thought I was doing such a
good job.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
It was great, it was great. Let's just I'll be
Amiga today. I'll be Amiga today. I'm still learning. I'm
still learning.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Yeah, just the basics.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
It's almost there. Man, you're just a whisker away. You hit,
you hit the outside of the post, you know. Friends,
remember to drop us emails. We're gonna always be reading
your emails and we'll respond to more soon. Away and
pod at gmail dot com, Away and bracket dot com
if you want to share with us your wisdom and
(47:21):
prognostication skills, and we'll be talking more about that next week.
Thanks to Kurt and Sean and Thank you Don always
a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
See you next week, See you next week.
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