February 26, 2026 • 35 mins
Daniel and producer Sean go through the listener mailbag while John is away this week.
We'd love to hear from you. Email us at awayendpod@gmail.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Away And
my name is Danielle Alercone. My co host, John Green
is indisposed at the moment, and we're going to do
something a little different, do an episode without him, and
sitting in for John Green is our producer Sean Titan. Hello. Sean, Hey, Daniel,
how you doing. I'm doing great? Sean. You are renowned
(00:30):
and celebrated around the world for your encyclopedic soccer knowledge,
which will surely be on display in today's episode. And
what we've decided to do, well, what'd you explain what
we're gonna do today? That's just a little bit different.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, I guess we're The bulk of today's episode is
going to come from listener emails, which is not necessarily
something completely new to the show, something we normally relegate
to the end of the episodes, but we are gonna
make it the full episode because we've been getting so
(01:03):
many thoughtful.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Emails from our listeners, which again, you guys can email
the show at a wayendpod at gmail dot com. Thank
you all so much for everything you've sent in. But yeah,
I think we're going to just go through some of
these questions for today's episode.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, yeah, and I should say our next episode, John
had prepared a deep dive into the US men's national team,
which I'm excited to hear. I have a storytell which
is related to that, and we're going to just table
that discussion until next week. But in the meantime, here's
Sean and I answering some questions. I think mostly me
(01:45):
answering the questions.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah, that would probably be best for our listeners.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yes, okay, all right, so let's go. Why don't you
start with the first email. I'm so excited to hear
what's been written. All right, here we go.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
First email, Dear John and Daniel. I am a Brazilian
football fan and was very surprised to see that a
Brazilian coach was announced as the new Peruvian national team coach.
I'm curious to see what Daniel thinks about this. In Brazil,
he is regarded as a reliable coach for helping clubs
avoid relegation, but not much beyond that. He saved my
(02:20):
team Fluminense from relegation in twenty twenty four, so I
have a soft spot for him. Follows up follows it
up with this news combined with Ancelotti becoming the Brazilian
national team coach got me thinking about how strange it
still feels when a national team hires a foreign coach.
On the one hand, I'm very happy Brazil has a
coach as great as Ancelotti, and it's making me a
(02:41):
little hopeful for Brazil's chances for the first time in
a long time. But at the same time, it still
feels strange to me that he is not Brazilian. What
do you guys think about this trend? Best wishes, Helena.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Helena, thank you for your question. I love this question
because it makes me think a lot about national identity
and stylistic footballing identity as it relates to the personality
and character of a nation. I think Ancelotti. I'll start
with the Ancelotti question because I do think that if
there's if there is a non Brazilian who can get
(03:16):
Brazilian football, I think it would be Ancelotti. Having coached
across Europe had many many Brazilian players. I think he,
you know, in his most recent job was at Real Madrid,
where he worked really closely with Vinessis Junior and we
have a great relationship. I think that he sort of
(03:37):
understands the need for Brazilian players to really express themselves
and to take risks, and he trusts his players and
I think that for those reasons he'll do well. Now.
It does raise a lot of interesting questions. Helene is
referring to the proven coach Manu Meneses, who's the new
coach of the national team. I think it's really interesting
(03:59):
because you say that he's an ex spurt in saving
teams from relegation. Let's be honest, if there were a
relegation for national teams, Peru would have been relegated in
the last World Cup qualifying season, so we ended up
second to last. It's the head of Chile and it's
kind of brutal. So you know, it's not exactly the magic.
(04:21):
You know that we're not necessarily need a coach who's
going to bring us up, you know, and make us
champions of South America. But to raise our level from
the bottom, you know, there's there's almost nowhere to go
but up. He's got to oversee a complete overhaul of
the team, a generational transformation, bringing new players, and it's
a it's not it's not gonna be an easy task.
(04:44):
I will say this, while we as fans often want
our coach to be from the country, to represent the country,
you know, are Our most successful coach of modern times
in Peru anyway, has been gad Eka Argentine, who took
us to the twenty eighteen World Cup. And I do
(05:05):
think there's something about having an outsider come in and
sort of tell you sort of what you need to
do without the kind of romanticism of being tied to
the national project in the same way that that can
be super useful. I mean it's almost like like hiring
a consultant, you know, to come in and tell you
who's the dead would And I think in that sense
(05:26):
it can be useful.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
What do you think, John, Yeah, I mean I think,
you know, I think about a team like Brazil, who
just seems to always be a favorite any World Cup
that they're in, paired with a coach who has such,
you know, an amazing record, you know, working with so
many different teams. Do you feel like this pairing puts
(05:48):
them in a place to have to be a favorite
heading into the series World Cup?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I think you never discount Brazil and I wonder, however,
as you know, his pedigrees you mentioned is incredible. He's
coached at all the biggest clubs in Europe, but he's
never coached the national team, which is a different beast altogether.
You know, when you coach a club team, you work
with the players you know, ten months a year, you know,
(06:15):
six days a week. You see them in training every
single day. You see them in games, you know, and
at those top leagues you're watching, you know, they're playing
two games a week. For a national team, you get
camps that are one week long, you know, in the
middle of the season, and then maybe a longer camp
in the summer for a tournament, you know, in preparation
(06:36):
for a tournament. But you're basically you're you're sort of
like a scout because you're always going to the stadiums
or watching the games to see how your players are doing.
But they a player might be playing badly because they're
in a bad team with a bad coach with bad tactics,
but they might still be a good player for you,
right or your best player might be you know, had
(06:57):
a falling out with their manager of their club team
and their not playing and they need to be playing
to be at you know, tip top shape for the tournament.
So it's like this really interesting balancing act that's so
different from what Angelaties used to and I think that's
gonna be really interesting. But to Helene's question, I think
Brazil will do very well this time. They're they're just
too good to have too many good players, too many
(07:19):
talented players to not pull it together. I'm not saying
they're gonna win. And actually, one of the problems I
think with Brazil is that if they don't win, it's
a failure, right, because they're so historically such a powerful team.
But I think, you know, getting to the Semis would
be incredible for this Brazilian team, considering the kind of
disappointments they've had in the past.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
All Right, well, thank you Hilen for such a great question.
Should we go to that? Should we go to the
next one?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Let's do it, all right, Dear John and Daniel. Really
enjoying the pod, looking forward to hearing more. Well, thank
you last episode admids to your criticism of the away
goals rule, which it admittedly deserves parentheses theirs, you neglected
to mention the rule's greatest upside. It was the only
way a team could go directly from losing to winning.
(08:07):
In a single kick. While the game is probably better
off without the rule, many of us will miss moments
like Andreas Niesta's goal against Chelsea in two thousand and
nine or Lucas Mora's goal against Iyaks in twenty nineteen.
Both goals took teams to the Champions League Final directly
from losing positions, a beautiful level of drama that is
unfortunately no longer possible. My question is do either of
(08:31):
you support or follow any clubs here in the US.
That's a pivot from that. It's quite a point.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Let me, let me, let me address the first one.
I completely agree with you. There there was such drama
in you know, in one goal changing everything, and I
agree that the Lucas Mora goal for sure. I remember
then there's the goal. I remember mostly for the image
(08:59):
of of Chelsea's captain, the German guy running after the
ref shouting uh in his face, demanding that the goal
be called off for a foul. And I can't remember
the German players name actually, unfortunately, Yeah, no, that's gone.
That's gone. I just don't think it's as fair as
(09:20):
it used to be, you know, it's it's it's no
longer necessary and it's not not super fair anymore. Okay,
the other question, do you support a follow new clubs
here in the US? Yes, I uh. In the first episode,
so longtime listeners of the away and will know that
I made fun of MLS a little bit in the
very first episode and made fun of Red Bulls New
(09:40):
York Red Bulls. But I actually ask my team, I
actually really love them. They're they're not great, but the
stadium experience is so lovely. People there are so so nice.
We have a nice little rivalry with ny CFC. We
have a new player. I remember watching, for example, Tyler
(10:01):
Adams play there, who's now one of the best players
on the US men's national team, when he was like seventeen,
and just thinking he was the best player on the pitch.
So I feel like I've had really great experiences watching
that team. There's a new kid now, Julian Hall I
think his name is scored Brace in the first game
of them last season the other day, and so yeah,
(10:24):
it's good. It's a good academy. They have lots of
good young players. They don't have a huge salary budget,
and that's one of the reasons why they never do
as well as you would like them to do, being
theoretically a big market team. But yeah, they're fun to
watch and I like teams who are red. So there
it is the New York Red Bulls. I can't answer
(10:45):
for John, but we'll pose that question to him when
he gets back. Sounds good, all right, Moving on, next
email here, love the podcast. I fell in love with
soccer as an adult and probably will never catch up
the growing obsessions. So this could not have come at
a better time. Maybe you've noticed, but a lot of
media around soccer is super lame, toxic, ultimately really depressing
(11:09):
and all that noise. It's lovely to hear the uplifting
bits highlighted and the tough realities of the sport discussed thoughtfully.
Thank you, that's so nice. That's so nice. Yeah, very nice,
very nice.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
All right, they go on. I was lightly devastated by
your Uruguay analysis. As a Bielsa appreciator and Darwin believer,
Sue me, I do appreciate getting the chance to quash
hope in advance and can root for the best case
project get out Argentina. Prompted by your talk on Hames Rodriguez,
(11:40):
I'm curious if there are any other standout players who
play notably better for country than club. I'd love to
hear more of their stories. And then my side and
equally important question is why do players hate Mark Kuquarella
so much? He seems like an alright guy who doesn't
reach even close to Bruno Fernandez. Love of annoying anyway,
(12:03):
I love the pop Let's go Columbia, Uruguay and never England.
I don't have a name for that email, so I
don't know. Thank you to whoever wrote that.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Though, Oh shoot, we'll find out who that was. But
that's a great question, okay, Jamas Rodriguez. Players who notably
play better for a country than club, I mean, the
first one that comes to mind is Landon Donovan. Unfortunately,
like I remember watching him when he'd come play every
few months, you know, once a year, every few months,
(12:35):
play a few months for Everton in the Premier League,
and I never thought he was up to much. Yeah, honestly,
that's the one. But you know, he scored some incredibly
important goals for the US in major competitions, including that
glorious last second winner against Algeria, which I'll never forget
and I celebrated vociferously and frightened my neighbors. So yeah,
(12:59):
he's the one that stands out for me. Okay, Sean,
Before I answered Mark co corella question, can you google
Mark Corella to just sort of see what we're talking about?
Who we're talking about hair?
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Yes, let me do that right now.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Okay, So now you're looking at a picture of Mark
co Corella, do you want to know? I want you
to just guess. Why do you think people hate him
so much? I mean, he has glorious hair. He has
glorious hair, he does.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah, so I can't imagine they would hate him for
his flowing locks. That can't be any reason to for
somebody to hate somebody.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I don't know. Okay, I'm gonna suffer there. I think
my theory is that it does have to do with that.
I feel like players with long hair stand out so
much and long and he has beautiful hair, like gorgeous hair,
you know, And I think that, uh, he stands out
on the pitch so much that he draws a lot
of attention to himself by having that hair. There was
(14:06):
a player for Arsenal a few seasons ago, last name
Gwendoozi and uh he also had He had similar hair,
and I think he also sort of became a pantomime
villain for other teams. So there's something about the long
hair that just is like, hey, look at me, and
other teams fans, uh, sort of don't take kindly to that. Look.
(14:27):
I'm sure he seems like I'm sure he's a nice guy.
I have no question, And I'm sure Bruno Fernandez is
also a fine human being, like I have no reason
to think otherwise. I think that players hate Mark Cucurella
in part because he is very good. He's a very
good defender. He has that long hair that calls attention
to him and uh, and he does do a lot
(14:51):
of like to me, I mean, Chelsea players, Chelsea fans
love him the same way that that that man. United
fans will love Bruno Fernandez. But Marco Gorilla is uh,
you know, he he does a lot of like fowls,
like Nigley fowls, and then falls over and flops a
lot and complains a lot. You know, he's a very
(15:12):
passionate player, and he has that you know, beautiful mane
of of of curly hair that I think that combination
just makes you'll hate him, you know, And it's probably
not fair. Nothing about fandom is fair or logical. But
there it is. There it is. You should take a
quick break. Uh, come back and read some more emails.
Sounds like a plan. All right, we'll be right back. Okay,
(15:45):
we're back on the away end on the nil alert
Sean Titan. Our producers here sitting in he got called
up to the first team, subbing in at the last
moment for uh, for John Green. This is a question
from Andrea Voss. You want to read this one. I'd
really like this question.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Andrea says, if Kurusaw can field a team with the
quality for the World Cup, could the Upper West Side?
It's about the same population, referring to New York City,
the Upper west Side of New York. That is a
callback to our last episode. I think when Daniel was
talking about playing on a playing on a team on
(16:22):
the Upper west Side. That check out that episode. Thank
you for the high quality of humor and quality and
your take on the game. Middle age expat who spent
the first half of his life in Germany, in the
second half on the Upper west Side.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
All right, so this is andre Loss. I wonder if
I've played with Andreas, So I've played a lot on
the Upper west Side, in Riverside Park, in Morningside Park,
at Booker T. Washington Park, Annunciation Park which is up
over by City College, basically anywhere green that has a
(16:57):
soccer pitch between, like fifty ninth Street in one hundred
and forty fifth Street. I've played there at some point. Now,
could we put together a team that could play against
Coursau because let me rephrase the question, because you know,
could a team from the qualify for the World Cup?
(17:18):
Like if we had been in the place of Courrosow,
could we have beaten, say Jamaica or turn it down, Tobago,
you know, those teams that Coursau would have been playing against.
I don't think so. I don't think so. It's an
interesting question. It's not just a matter of population. I
(17:41):
feel like players on the Upper west Side very in quality,
age sort of how seriously they take the game. Fitness, Uh,
you know, I don't feel like I've seen I've played
with a lot of really quality old people on the
(18:02):
Upper west Side, like and multiple I mean like people
of my age and older, and I always end up
saying they're very good for their age, which I can't
even say about myself. Anymore. But I don't think that
we could do it, at least not the players that
I'm coming across. The younger player. You know, maybe there's
a there's a kind of undiscovered, you know, crew of
(18:23):
players ages eighteen to twenty eight on the Upper west
Side who could really put it together. But we'd have
to find twenty two of them. No, no, I'm going
to go I'm going to say no. I'm gonna say no. However,
I have played some really incredible games with some really
wonderful players and most importantly wonderful people on the Upper
(18:43):
west Side. So in the World Cup of lovely people,
the Upper west Side would be at least make it
to the quarterfinals. Nice.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Yeah, I would imagine if you are in that eighteen
to twenty eight range, and you are actually really good
and talented, you're most likely not playing in a league
on the Upper west Side.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Where I would be playing. Is that what you're saying.
It's like we're like ships passday night. So there are
good players that are World Cup levels, just that I
would never see them because I'm playing with a bunch
of old people with bad knees. That's probably true, Sean,
That's that's that's a fair point. Okay, So how about
Moving's question, No, Dondrew's question. You know, we'll have to
do more research. We'll have to do more research. Just
(19:26):
not sure.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
All right, thank you Andre. Let's see all right, this
comes from Tyler. Hey, guys, loving the away and so
far never listen to a football pod before. Well, welcome
Tyler as a new fan. One thing that keeps confusing
me about the tears of English football will be when
I hear about some town I've never heard of, and
(19:52):
then you say that they lost to Arsenal or some
super world famous team coming from the world of American football.
That's like hearing that some random suburb beaten by the
New England Patriots. Is Arsenal playing random teams like this
all the time? Do they ever lose? Is it a
flatter competitive level than I think in Manchester? United just
happens to have better pr people. Thanks Tyler.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
That is a great question. Okay. So these are kind
of basic structural questions about how European leagues work, and
I think it's kind of fascinating, especially if you are
sort of a you know, if you're customed to American
sports leagues, they're closed basically, and there's no promotion or relegation,
and so you can you know, in the NBA now
(20:38):
and I know there's only tangentially people are you know,
like one of the big conversations about tanking in a
European league or any sort of soccer league that has
promotion relegation, there's no tanking because the teams are fighting
to the last day to stay in the league, because
the bottom three teams usually go down. Right. So now,
how is it then that you know a team like
(21:02):
you know, Arsenal is playing like some small suburban team.
So in addition to regular sort of the season, the
league that you know what we would call like the
regular season, that is its own championship, right, that's its
own tournament. Right, So every team plays every team home
and away, three points for a win, one point for
(21:22):
a draw. Whoever has the most points at the end wins,
and that is the most coveted trophy in the land. Right,
It's a very big deal. And my team, for example,
Arsenal hasn't won in twenty two years, and it's the
source of much anxiety and hope and expectation and despair.
Every season will will just be the year that Arsenal wins, right,
(21:43):
And it's just there's no playoffs at the end. It's
just you know, who has the most points at the
end period, right. So that's one thing what makes a
lot of these leagues interesting I think. And this happens,
you know, again not just in England or in what
we call the Premier League, but all over Europe and
a lot of national leagues in Latin America as well.
(22:03):
Is it simultaneous to the regular league. They're playing cups, right,
So in the UK they play the League Cup and
the f A Cup, right, and that's where you're gonna get.
So you might see Arsenal playing you know, a Wigan,
you know a team like Wigan, right, And Wigan has
been in the Premier League. They've they've fallen out of
the Premier League and they're currently I think languishing and
(22:27):
like the what would be the second or third division.
But they get they the in the in these cups.
Basically all the teams get put in the in the
pot and they you know, they pick random teams and
they have these playoffs and that is structured like a
playoff where it's like a knockout tournament. Two teams play
each other, the winner goes on and blah blah blah.
(22:47):
And so that's where you get these these these kind
of strange, exotic matchups of the team a gigantic team
like Manchester United with a small team like Macclesfield or
or whatever, Lowton Town, et cetera. And it can be
really fun because that's when whenever people you'll hear the
phrase and I've become very attuned to like English soccer cliches,
(23:11):
which I love. And you know, people talk about the
magic of the Cup, and I think that's what they
refer to, is when you get these minno's beating up
on these giants. So it isn't really that Manchester United
has better pr people. It's that they have bigger budgets,
bigger stadiums, you know, many more trophies, huge fan bases
that are not just local but international, and and and
(23:34):
those teams you know, will occasionally get drawn against smaller
teams in these cups and they can be huge paydays
for the small teams because they get you know, TV money,
and they get ticket you know, ticket money, and they
also a huge sense of pride. If a small team
knocks out a big team, it's always really fun unless
it's your team and then it sucks. Yeah, but I
(23:56):
think it's fun. I think it would be fun to
see the New England Patriots play against you know, I
don't know, some Pop Warner Pee Wee football team. Will
be fun to see what the upper west Side, possibly
the upper west side you know in football, would be
would be really great. Yeah, So I hope that answers
your question, Tyler, and you know, welcome to the world
(24:18):
of football and football pots. All right, before we go,
we actually look this up and our apologies and our
gratitude to Libia Mars who asked the question about Mark Upurella,
which was my absolute favorite. So let's take a quick break.
We'll come back with a couple more questions before we
wrap up. Okay, this is the away end here with
(24:55):
Sean our producer, Sean, how you doing man? Enjoying me
his emails. We got a couple more questions before we
wrap up this special episode.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Okay, you want to hit me with this one from Jonathan? Yeah,
this comes from Jonathan aunt Shryl. He asks why are
China not a powerhouse? Why is why is China? Well
it's not correct, Jonathan.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Here, why is China. Why is yes? Okay, fine, it's
why is China not a powers in football? Okay?
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Go on. It's a pretty big sport over there, unlike
say India, where a few other sports are more popular.
They have the amount of people and skill, they have money,
they have good work ethic. I studied and lived there
for a year. So what's up with that? What's up
with that? That's a great question. And I am not
a Chinese expert on Chinese soccer or an expert on
(25:55):
Chinese anything. My first response to this, uh, you know,
having said that I know nothing, I'm going to say
something anyway. My first reponse this is that it feels
to me like China is good at whatever they want
to be good at. Uh.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
And so maybe they haven't just committed to this sport yet.
I was just remember, I mean, just a couple of
weeks ago, I was watching the or that might have
been last week. I guess even a lot of these
like snowboarding, you know, half pipe, lunatic sports in the
winter in the winter Olympics that were amazing and there's
(26:30):
Chinese athletes at the very top of those sports. And uh,
and it's just really amazing to see I have no
doubt that the the that if China sort of decides
as a nation they want to be really good at talcer,
they will be. There is a Chinese Super League, and
and I wonder how much of it is related to
(26:52):
the sort of boom and bus cycle that the Chinese
Super League had. There was a time, and it wasn't
very long ago, uh, you know, maybe fifteen, you know,
twelve years ago or something, when the Chinese Super League
was the equivalent of what the Saudi Pro League is now,
where they just had, you know, gobs and gobs of
money and were throwing crazy contracts at European based players
(27:16):
and luring them away from top teams, you know, teams
like Chelsea. You know, thinking of a wonderful Brazilian player
named Oscar who kind of disappeared into China and I think,
as far as I know, continues to play there. But
it did feel like a fall off in skill and
sort of technical level that players that went off to
(27:37):
play in China kind of like were never heard from
again because they weren't then called back to their national
teams because they had dropped a level or two or three.
My understanding is that the Chinese Super League has had
sort of cycles. They no longer have the money to
throw around like they did, so they're not bringing in
that kind of talent. And in any case, I mean,
those leagues end up thriving when they have you know,
(27:58):
the eyeballs and the attention of local audiences, right, and
sometimes bringing in a foreign player who's a star can
jump start that process. Sometimes it can lead to a
raising of the level that makes the local players better.
Sometimes it can lead to distortions that don't really sort
(28:20):
of lead to sort of grassroots soccer excellence. So I'd
have to know more about, like how much are the
Chinese clubs investing in their in their academies, you know,
because that's where the next great generation of players are
always going to come. And that sort of remains to
be seen. But yeah, basically you're right. They have the
people in skill and the money, so you would think
(28:41):
they'd be able to do it. We'll see you did
have You did have thoughts on that. See, I have
thoughts on lots of things, man, It's one of the
things that I do just sit around and think.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
All right, let's see, last but not least, we have
a wonderful note here from Simon Simon Ben. He says, Hi, John,
Daniel and Sean, thank.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
You for yeah, yeah spell three spelleries.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Yeah, he got it right with one of the three,
so that's good. Not sure if you'll be doing any
deep dives into Australia for the podcast, but I felt
compelled to email in due to Daniel being Peruvian and
how we Australia came to qualify for the twenty twenty
two World Cup. Perhaps Daniel can retell the story of
(29:32):
the Peru versus Australia inter Confederation playoff from his perspective
in Australia. The quote gray Wiggle was instantly enshrined in
our footballing folklore thanks to Andrew Redmain's dancing antics during
the penalty shootout, especially as he was substituted on just
for the shootout despite Peru's ultimate loss. Sorry, I do
(29:54):
believe that read, I do believe that Redmain did actually
becomes sort of a cult figure in Peru following the game.
I'd love to hear about how Daniel experienced everything surrounding
that game, including the lead up and aftermath, if he
can bring himself to looking forward to the World Cup
and Australia playing the USA. Thank you, and you'll never
(30:15):
walk alone shout out to John and his favorite song.
So yeah, thank you Simon.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
All right, well, if I can bring myself to answer
this question, that's good. Thank you Simon for this and
for reminding me of a truly terrible day. No, so okay,
So for those of you who don't know, and I
presume that most listeners weren't glued to their televisions watching
the Inter Confederation playoff toe in Peru in Australia four
(30:44):
years ago, but I was, and so were most of
my cousins and family and many friends. So what he's
referring to, what Simon's referring to is the goalkeeper Andrew Redmain,
the second string Australian goalkeeper. They played, the game had
(31:06):
gone to a zero zero fire remember correctly, it was
going went to extra time, then went to penalty kicks,
and it was decided on penalty kicks. They bring on
Andrew Redmain specifically for the shootout, which is something that
isn't often done. And when he says the gray wiggle,
it's because this guy you've seen Sean these kind of
(31:27):
like in front of a used car dealership. They have
the air guy that they just like that inflates and
its arms flap around. So imagine that in the form
of like a six foot six Australian guy with a
beard sort of flapping about, and you can't come off
your line in a soccer shootout, like as the penalty
(31:48):
is taken. When the penalty has taken, your foot has
to be at least one foot has to be on
the line. So he's moving side to side, flapping his
arms like like a deranged giant, you know, pterodactyl or something,
and completely freaked out the Proven players. I don't remember
how many players missed or who missed. I've blocked it
all out. I just know that as soon as he
started flapping his arms, I knew that we were going
(32:10):
to lose, and we did. So now how do I
feel about that? I have a lot of thoughts about this.
I happened to be at the twenty eighteen game when
Peru qualified playing New Zealand, and there's a huge difference,
and the difference and the core difference is in twenty eighteen,
those games were played home and away, So the proven
(32:31):
team flew to New Zealand played there zero zero, then
the flew back to Lima. The New Zealand team flew
to Lima and was completely overwhelmed by playing in a
Peruvian stadium full of Peruvian fans. They must have been
(32:51):
jet lagged. When they were trying to rest, the Peruvian
Air Force flew a plane over their hotel to keep
them from resting. There were fans camped out their home
till all night long, playing and singing drums. You know.
I remember being at the stadium and just I could
tell how overwhelmed the Kiwis were with the with the atmosphere,
(33:15):
you know, two hours before the game, the stadium was
full and everyone was singing. I mentioned that because it's
a huge disadvantage for us to play a game in
a neutral territory. And I can't remember actually where they played,
but when we played Australia on neutral ground, we lost
all the atmosphere and that we lost it was like
playing a man down for Peru. Having said that, we
(33:37):
you know, we didn't we didn't do great. We didn't.
We didn't we didn't get we didn't really deserve to
get through. We didn't play with any sort of authority
or attacking verve. And when it went down to penalties shootouts.
You know, when it goes to penalty shootouts, anyone can win.
And and as soon as Andrew Redman started throwing his
arms around, it was obvious to me what was going
(33:59):
to happen. So there it is. That's the story. Very
painful to remember, but thank you Simon for your question
and for making me relive that trauma.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
The gray wiggle reminds me of I know, we've talked
a little bit about how John was sort of the
ultra in our high school during soccer matches when he
would come to watch. But I also have feel like
I have memories of him doing that during basketball games
to try to rattle whoever was shooting free throws on
(34:33):
the other team, doing a similar dance, as well as
yelling to to try to, you know, rattle the shooter.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Does that bring all? Yeah, And I think these are
the kinds of skills that the intangibles that John brings
to any sporting sporting endeavor.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
You know.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Uh, it's his ability to or his willingness to embrace
the absurdity and his complete lack of shame that really
make him the expector in all kinds of sports. But yeah,
we having said that you know here we're talking about John.
(35:14):
We miss him. We'll see him next week, I'm sure.
And in the meantime, Sean, thanks for filling in. Man.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah, no, this was this was awesome. I appreciate you
bringing me up to read through some of these emails.
And yeah, I please everyone out there keep sending them in.
We we love reading them and maybe yours will end
up in a future episode. But yeah, we look forward
to having John back with us next week.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
And thanks so much to everybody for listening. Thanks so
much again. Our note is away endpod at gmail dot com,
and we'll see you next week.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Away And
my name is Danielle Alercone. My co host, John Green
is indisposed at the moment, and we're going to do
something a little different, do an episode without him, and
sitting in for John Green is our producer Sean Titan. Hello. Sean, Hey, Daniel,
how you doing. I'm doing great? Sean. You are renowned
(00:30):
and celebrated around the world for your encyclopedic soccer knowledge,
which will surely be on display in today's episode. And
what we've decided to do, well, what'd you explain what
we're gonna do today? That's just a little bit different.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, I guess we're The bulk of today's episode is
going to come from listener emails, which is not necessarily
something completely new to the show, something we normally relegate
to the end of the episodes, but we are gonna
make it the full episode because we've been getting so
(01:03):
many thoughtful.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Emails from our listeners, which again, you guys can email
the show at a wayendpod at gmail dot com. Thank
you all so much for everything you've sent in. But yeah,
I think we're going to just go through some of
these questions for today's episode.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, yeah, and I should say our next episode, John
had prepared a deep dive into the US men's national team,
which I'm excited to hear. I have a storytell which
is related to that, and we're going to just table
that discussion until next week. But in the meantime, here's
Sean and I answering some questions. I think mostly me
(01:45):
answering the questions.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah, that would probably be best for our listeners.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yes, okay, all right, so let's go. Why don't you
start with the first email. I'm so excited to hear
what's been written. All right, here we go.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
First email, Dear John and Daniel. I am a Brazilian
football fan and was very surprised to see that a
Brazilian coach was announced as the new Peruvian national team coach.
I'm curious to see what Daniel thinks about this. In Brazil,
he is regarded as a reliable coach for helping clubs
avoid relegation, but not much beyond that. He saved my
(02:20):
team Fluminense from relegation in twenty twenty four, so I
have a soft spot for him. Follows up follows it
up with this news combined with Ancelotti becoming the Brazilian
national team coach got me thinking about how strange it
still feels when a national team hires a foreign coach.
On the one hand, I'm very happy Brazil has a
coach as great as Ancelotti, and it's making me a
(02:41):
little hopeful for Brazil's chances for the first time in
a long time. But at the same time, it still
feels strange to me that he is not Brazilian. What
do you guys think about this trend? Best wishes, Helena.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Helena, thank you for your question. I love this question
because it makes me think a lot about national identity
and stylistic footballing identity as it relates to the personality
and character of a nation. I think Ancelotti. I'll start
with the Ancelotti question because I do think that if
there's if there is a non Brazilian who can get
(03:16):
Brazilian football, I think it would be Ancelotti. Having coached
across Europe had many many Brazilian players. I think he,
you know, in his most recent job was at Real Madrid,
where he worked really closely with Vinessis Junior and we
have a great relationship. I think that he sort of
(03:37):
understands the need for Brazilian players to really express themselves
and to take risks, and he trusts his players and
I think that for those reasons he'll do well. Now.
It does raise a lot of interesting questions. Helene is
referring to the proven coach Manu Meneses, who's the new
coach of the national team. I think it's really interesting
(03:59):
because you say that he's an ex spurt in saving
teams from relegation. Let's be honest, if there were a
relegation for national teams, Peru would have been relegated in
the last World Cup qualifying season, so we ended up
second to last. It's the head of Chile and it's
kind of brutal. So you know, it's not exactly the magic.
(04:21):
You know that we're not necessarily need a coach who's
going to bring us up, you know, and make us
champions of South America. But to raise our level from
the bottom, you know, there's there's almost nowhere to go
but up. He's got to oversee a complete overhaul of
the team, a generational transformation, bringing new players, and it's
a it's not it's not gonna be an easy task.
(04:44):
I will say this, while we as fans often want
our coach to be from the country, to represent the country,
you know, are Our most successful coach of modern times
in Peru anyway, has been gad Eka Argentine, who took
us to the twenty eighteen World Cup. And I do
(05:05):
think there's something about having an outsider come in and
sort of tell you sort of what you need to
do without the kind of romanticism of being tied to
the national project in the same way that that can
be super useful. I mean it's almost like like hiring
a consultant, you know, to come in and tell you
who's the dead would And I think in that sense
(05:26):
it can be useful.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
What do you think, John, Yeah, I mean I think,
you know, I think about a team like Brazil, who
just seems to always be a favorite any World Cup
that they're in, paired with a coach who has such,
you know, an amazing record, you know, working with so
many different teams. Do you feel like this pairing puts
(05:48):
them in a place to have to be a favorite
heading into the series World Cup?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I think you never discount Brazil and I wonder, however,
as you know, his pedigrees you mentioned is incredible. He's
coached at all the biggest clubs in Europe, but he's
never coached the national team, which is a different beast altogether.
You know, when you coach a club team, you work
with the players you know, ten months a year, you know,
(06:15):
six days a week. You see them in training every
single day. You see them in games, you know, and
at those top leagues you're watching, you know, they're playing
two games a week. For a national team, you get
camps that are one week long, you know, in the
middle of the season, and then maybe a longer camp
in the summer for a tournament, you know, in preparation
(06:36):
for a tournament. But you're basically you're you're sort of
like a scout because you're always going to the stadiums
or watching the games to see how your players are doing.
But they a player might be playing badly because they're
in a bad team with a bad coach with bad tactics,
but they might still be a good player for you,
right or your best player might be you know, had
(06:57):
a falling out with their manager of their club team
and their not playing and they need to be playing
to be at you know, tip top shape for the tournament.
So it's like this really interesting balancing act that's so
different from what Angelaties used to and I think that's
gonna be really interesting. But to Helene's question, I think
Brazil will do very well this time. They're they're just
too good to have too many good players, too many
(07:19):
talented players to not pull it together. I'm not saying
they're gonna win. And actually, one of the problems I
think with Brazil is that if they don't win, it's
a failure, right, because they're so historically such a powerful team.
But I think, you know, getting to the Semis would
be incredible for this Brazilian team, considering the kind of
disappointments they've had in the past.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
All Right, well, thank you Hilen for such a great question.
Should we go to that? Should we go to the
next one?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Let's do it, all right, Dear John and Daniel. Really
enjoying the pod, looking forward to hearing more. Well, thank
you last episode admids to your criticism of the away
goals rule, which it admittedly deserves parentheses theirs, you neglected
to mention the rule's greatest upside. It was the only
way a team could go directly from losing to winning.
(08:07):
In a single kick. While the game is probably better
off without the rule, many of us will miss moments
like Andreas Niesta's goal against Chelsea in two thousand and
nine or Lucas Mora's goal against Iyaks in twenty nineteen.
Both goals took teams to the Champions League Final directly
from losing positions, a beautiful level of drama that is
unfortunately no longer possible. My question is do either of
(08:31):
you support or follow any clubs here in the US.
That's a pivot from that. It's quite a point.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Let me, let me, let me address the first one.
I completely agree with you. There there was such drama
in you know, in one goal changing everything, and I
agree that the Lucas Mora goal for sure. I remember
then there's the goal. I remember mostly for the image
(08:59):
of of Chelsea's captain, the German guy running after the
ref shouting uh in his face, demanding that the goal
be called off for a foul. And I can't remember
the German players name actually, unfortunately, Yeah, no, that's gone.
That's gone. I just don't think it's as fair as
(09:20):
it used to be, you know, it's it's it's no
longer necessary and it's not not super fair anymore. Okay,
the other question, do you support a follow new clubs
here in the US? Yes, I uh. In the first episode,
so longtime listeners of the away and will know that
I made fun of MLS a little bit in the
very first episode and made fun of Red Bulls New
(09:40):
York Red Bulls. But I actually ask my team, I
actually really love them. They're they're not great, but the
stadium experience is so lovely. People there are so so nice.
We have a nice little rivalry with ny CFC. We
have a new player. I remember watching, for example, Tyler
(10:01):
Adams play there, who's now one of the best players
on the US men's national team, when he was like seventeen,
and just thinking he was the best player on the pitch.
So I feel like I've had really great experiences watching
that team. There's a new kid now, Julian Hall I
think his name is scored Brace in the first game
of them last season the other day, and so yeah,
(10:24):
it's good. It's a good academy. They have lots of
good young players. They don't have a huge salary budget,
and that's one of the reasons why they never do
as well as you would like them to do, being
theoretically a big market team. But yeah, they're fun to
watch and I like teams who are red. So there
it is the New York Red Bulls. I can't answer
(10:45):
for John, but we'll pose that question to him when
he gets back. Sounds good, all right, Moving on, next
email here, love the podcast. I fell in love with
soccer as an adult and probably will never catch up
the growing obsessions. So this could not have come at
a better time. Maybe you've noticed, but a lot of
media around soccer is super lame, toxic, ultimately really depressing
(11:09):
and all that noise. It's lovely to hear the uplifting
bits highlighted and the tough realities of the sport discussed thoughtfully.
Thank you, that's so nice. That's so nice. Yeah, very nice,
very nice.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
All right, they go on. I was lightly devastated by
your Uruguay analysis. As a Bielsa appreciator and Darwin believer,
Sue me, I do appreciate getting the chance to quash
hope in advance and can root for the best case
project get out Argentina. Prompted by your talk on Hames Rodriguez,
(11:40):
I'm curious if there are any other standout players who
play notably better for country than club. I'd love to
hear more of their stories. And then my side and
equally important question is why do players hate Mark Kuquarella
so much? He seems like an alright guy who doesn't
reach even close to Bruno Fernandez. Love of annoying anyway,
(12:03):
I love the pop Let's go Columbia, Uruguay and never England.
I don't have a name for that email, so I
don't know. Thank you to whoever wrote that.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Though, Oh shoot, we'll find out who that was. But
that's a great question, okay, Jamas Rodriguez. Players who notably
play better for a country than club, I mean, the
first one that comes to mind is Landon Donovan. Unfortunately,
like I remember watching him when he'd come play every
few months, you know, once a year, every few months,
(12:35):
play a few months for Everton in the Premier League,
and I never thought he was up to much. Yeah, honestly,
that's the one. But you know, he scored some incredibly
important goals for the US in major competitions, including that
glorious last second winner against Algeria, which I'll never forget
and I celebrated vociferously and frightened my neighbors. So yeah,
(12:59):
he's the one that stands out for me. Okay, Sean,
Before I answered Mark co corella question, can you google
Mark Corella to just sort of see what we're talking about?
Who we're talking about hair?
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Yes, let me do that right now.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Okay, So now you're looking at a picture of Mark
co Corella, do you want to know? I want you
to just guess. Why do you think people hate him
so much? I mean, he has glorious hair. He has
glorious hair, he does.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah, so I can't imagine they would hate him for
his flowing locks. That can't be any reason to for
somebody to hate somebody.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I don't know. Okay, I'm gonna suffer there. I think
my theory is that it does have to do with that.
I feel like players with long hair stand out so
much and long and he has beautiful hair, like gorgeous hair,
you know, And I think that, uh, he stands out
on the pitch so much that he draws a lot
of attention to himself by having that hair. There was
(14:06):
a player for Arsenal a few seasons ago, last name
Gwendoozi and uh he also had He had similar hair,
and I think he also sort of became a pantomime
villain for other teams. So there's something about the long
hair that just is like, hey, look at me, and
other teams fans, uh, sort of don't take kindly to that. Look.
(14:27):
I'm sure he seems like I'm sure he's a nice guy.
I have no question, And I'm sure Bruno Fernandez is
also a fine human being, like I have no reason
to think otherwise. I think that players hate Mark Cucurella
in part because he is very good. He's a very
good defender. He has that long hair that calls attention
to him and uh, and he does do a lot
(14:51):
of like to me, I mean, Chelsea players, Chelsea fans
love him the same way that that that man. United
fans will love Bruno Fernandez. But Marco Gorilla is uh,
you know, he he does a lot of like fowls,
like Nigley fowls, and then falls over and flops a
lot and complains a lot. You know, he's a very
(15:12):
passionate player, and he has that you know, beautiful mane
of of of curly hair that I think that combination
just makes you'll hate him, you know, And it's probably
not fair. Nothing about fandom is fair or logical. But
there it is. There it is. You should take a
quick break. Uh, come back and read some more emails.
Sounds like a plan. All right, we'll be right back. Okay,
(15:45):
we're back on the away end on the nil alert
Sean Titan. Our producers here sitting in he got called
up to the first team, subbing in at the last
moment for uh, for John Green. This is a question
from Andrea Voss. You want to read this one. I'd
really like this question.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Andrea says, if Kurusaw can field a team with the
quality for the World Cup, could the Upper West Side?
It's about the same population, referring to New York City,
the Upper west Side of New York. That is a
callback to our last episode. I think when Daniel was
talking about playing on a playing on a team on
(16:22):
the Upper west Side. That check out that episode. Thank
you for the high quality of humor and quality and
your take on the game. Middle age expat who spent
the first half of his life in Germany, in the
second half on the Upper west Side.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
All right, so this is andre Loss. I wonder if
I've played with Andreas, So I've played a lot on
the Upper west Side, in Riverside Park, in Morningside Park,
at Booker T. Washington Park, Annunciation Park which is up
over by City College, basically anywhere green that has a
(16:57):
soccer pitch between, like fifty ninth Street in one hundred
and forty fifth Street. I've played there at some point. Now,
could we put together a team that could play against
Coursau because let me rephrase the question, because you know,
could a team from the qualify for the World Cup?
(17:18):
Like if we had been in the place of Courrosow,
could we have beaten, say Jamaica or turn it down, Tobago,
you know, those teams that Coursau would have been playing against.
I don't think so. I don't think so. It's an
interesting question. It's not just a matter of population. I
(17:41):
feel like players on the Upper west Side very in quality,
age sort of how seriously they take the game. Fitness, Uh,
you know, I don't feel like I've seen I've played
with a lot of really quality old people on the
(18:02):
Upper west Side, like and multiple I mean like people
of my age and older, and I always end up
saying they're very good for their age, which I can't
even say about myself. Anymore. But I don't think that
we could do it, at least not the players that
I'm coming across. The younger player. You know, maybe there's
a there's a kind of undiscovered, you know, crew of
(18:23):
players ages eighteen to twenty eight on the Upper west
Side who could really put it together. But we'd have
to find twenty two of them. No, no, I'm going
to go I'm going to say no. I'm gonna say no. However,
I have played some really incredible games with some really
wonderful players and most importantly wonderful people on the Upper
(18:43):
west Side. So in the World Cup of lovely people,
the Upper west Side would be at least make it
to the quarterfinals. Nice.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Yeah, I would imagine if you are in that eighteen
to twenty eight range, and you are actually really good
and talented, you're most likely not playing in a league
on the Upper west Side.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Where I would be playing. Is that what you're saying.
It's like we're like ships passday night. So there are
good players that are World Cup levels, just that I
would never see them because I'm playing with a bunch
of old people with bad knees. That's probably true, Sean,
That's that's that's a fair point. Okay, So how about
Moving's question, No, Dondrew's question. You know, we'll have to
do more research. We'll have to do more research. Just
(19:26):
not sure.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
All right, thank you Andre. Let's see all right, this
comes from Tyler. Hey, guys, loving the away and so
far never listen to a football pod before. Well, welcome
Tyler as a new fan. One thing that keeps confusing
me about the tears of English football will be when
I hear about some town I've never heard of, and
(19:52):
then you say that they lost to Arsenal or some
super world famous team coming from the world of American football.
That's like hearing that some random suburb beaten by the
New England Patriots. Is Arsenal playing random teams like this
all the time? Do they ever lose? Is it a
flatter competitive level than I think in Manchester? United just
happens to have better pr people. Thanks Tyler.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
That is a great question. Okay. So these are kind
of basic structural questions about how European leagues work, and
I think it's kind of fascinating, especially if you are
sort of a you know, if you're customed to American
sports leagues, they're closed basically, and there's no promotion or relegation,
and so you can you know, in the NBA now
(20:38):
and I know there's only tangentially people are you know,
like one of the big conversations about tanking in a
European league or any sort of soccer league that has
promotion relegation, there's no tanking because the teams are fighting
to the last day to stay in the league, because
the bottom three teams usually go down. Right. So now,
how is it then that you know a team like
(21:02):
you know, Arsenal is playing like some small suburban team.
So in addition to regular sort of the season, the
league that you know what we would call like the
regular season, that is its own championship, right, that's its
own tournament. Right, So every team plays every team home
and away, three points for a win, one point for
(21:22):
a draw. Whoever has the most points at the end wins,
and that is the most coveted trophy in the land. Right,
It's a very big deal. And my team, for example,
Arsenal hasn't won in twenty two years, and it's the
source of much anxiety and hope and expectation and despair.
Every season will will just be the year that Arsenal wins, right,
(21:43):
And it's just there's no playoffs at the end. It's
just you know, who has the most points at the
end period, right. So that's one thing what makes a
lot of these leagues interesting I think. And this happens,
you know, again not just in England or in what
we call the Premier League, but all over Europe and
a lot of national leagues in Latin America as well.
(22:03):
Is it simultaneous to the regular league. They're playing cups, right,
So in the UK they play the League Cup and
the f A Cup, right, and that's where you're gonna get.
So you might see Arsenal playing you know, a Wigan,
you know a team like Wigan, right, And Wigan has
been in the Premier League. They've they've fallen out of
the Premier League and they're currently I think languishing and
(22:27):
like the what would be the second or third division.
But they get they the in the in these cups.
Basically all the teams get put in the in the
pot and they you know, they pick random teams and
they have these playoffs and that is structured like a
playoff where it's like a knockout tournament. Two teams play
each other, the winner goes on and blah blah blah.
(22:47):
And so that's where you get these these these kind
of strange, exotic matchups of the team a gigantic team
like Manchester United with a small team like Macclesfield or
or whatever, Lowton Town, et cetera. And it can be
really fun because that's when whenever people you'll hear the
phrase and I've become very attuned to like English soccer cliches,
(23:11):
which I love. And you know, people talk about the
magic of the Cup, and I think that's what they
refer to, is when you get these minno's beating up
on these giants. So it isn't really that Manchester United
has better pr people. It's that they have bigger budgets,
bigger stadiums, you know, many more trophies, huge fan bases
that are not just local but international, and and and
(23:34):
those teams you know, will occasionally get drawn against smaller
teams in these cups and they can be huge paydays
for the small teams because they get you know, TV money,
and they get ticket you know, ticket money, and they
also a huge sense of pride. If a small team
knocks out a big team, it's always really fun unless
it's your team and then it sucks. Yeah, but I
(23:56):
think it's fun. I think it would be fun to
see the New England Patriots play against you know, I
don't know, some Pop Warner Pee Wee football team. Will
be fun to see what the upper west Side, possibly
the upper west side you know in football, would be
would be really great. Yeah, So I hope that answers
your question, Tyler, and you know, welcome to the world
(24:18):
of football and football pots. All right, before we go,
we actually look this up and our apologies and our
gratitude to Libia Mars who asked the question about Mark Upurella,
which was my absolute favorite. So let's take a quick break.
We'll come back with a couple more questions before we
wrap up. Okay, this is the away end here with
(24:55):
Sean our producer, Sean, how you doing man? Enjoying me
his emails. We got a couple more questions before we
wrap up this special episode.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Okay, you want to hit me with this one from Jonathan? Yeah,
this comes from Jonathan aunt Shryl. He asks why are
China not a powerhouse? Why is why is China? Well
it's not correct, Jonathan.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Here, why is China. Why is yes? Okay, fine, it's
why is China not a powers in football? Okay?
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Go on. It's a pretty big sport over there, unlike
say India, where a few other sports are more popular.
They have the amount of people and skill, they have money,
they have good work ethic. I studied and lived there
for a year. So what's up with that? What's up
with that? That's a great question. And I am not
a Chinese expert on Chinese soccer or an expert on
(25:55):
Chinese anything. My first response to this, uh, you know,
having said that I know nothing, I'm going to say
something anyway. My first reponse this is that it feels
to me like China is good at whatever they want
to be good at. Uh.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
And so maybe they haven't just committed to this sport yet.
I was just remember, I mean, just a couple of
weeks ago, I was watching the or that might have
been last week. I guess even a lot of these
like snowboarding, you know, half pipe, lunatic sports in the
winter in the winter Olympics that were amazing and there's
(26:30):
Chinese athletes at the very top of those sports. And uh,
and it's just really amazing to see I have no
doubt that the the that if China sort of decides
as a nation they want to be really good at talcer,
they will be. There is a Chinese Super League, and
and I wonder how much of it is related to
(26:52):
the sort of boom and bus cycle that the Chinese
Super League had. There was a time, and it wasn't
very long ago, uh, you know, maybe fifteen, you know,
twelve years ago or something, when the Chinese Super League
was the equivalent of what the Saudi Pro League is now,
where they just had, you know, gobs and gobs of
money and were throwing crazy contracts at European based players
(27:16):
and luring them away from top teams, you know, teams
like Chelsea. You know, thinking of a wonderful Brazilian player
named Oscar who kind of disappeared into China and I think,
as far as I know, continues to play there. But
it did feel like a fall off in skill and
sort of technical level that players that went off to
(27:37):
play in China kind of like were never heard from
again because they weren't then called back to their national
teams because they had dropped a level or two or three.
My understanding is that the Chinese Super League has had
sort of cycles. They no longer have the money to
throw around like they did, so they're not bringing in
that kind of talent. And in any case, I mean,
those leagues end up thriving when they have you know,
(27:58):
the eyeballs and the attention of local audiences, right, and
sometimes bringing in a foreign player who's a star can
jump start that process. Sometimes it can lead to a
raising of the level that makes the local players better.
Sometimes it can lead to distortions that don't really sort
(28:20):
of lead to sort of grassroots soccer excellence. So I'd
have to know more about, like how much are the
Chinese clubs investing in their in their academies, you know,
because that's where the next great generation of players are
always going to come. And that sort of remains to
be seen. But yeah, basically you're right. They have the
people in skill and the money, so you would think
(28:41):
they'd be able to do it. We'll see you did
have You did have thoughts on that. See, I have
thoughts on lots of things, man, It's one of the
things that I do just sit around and think.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
All right, let's see, last but not least, we have
a wonderful note here from Simon Simon Ben. He says, Hi, John,
Daniel and Sean, thank.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
You for yeah, yeah spell three spelleries.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Yeah, he got it right with one of the three,
so that's good. Not sure if you'll be doing any
deep dives into Australia for the podcast, but I felt
compelled to email in due to Daniel being Peruvian and
how we Australia came to qualify for the twenty twenty
two World Cup. Perhaps Daniel can retell the story of
(29:32):
the Peru versus Australia inter Confederation playoff from his perspective
in Australia. The quote gray Wiggle was instantly enshrined in
our footballing folklore thanks to Andrew Redmain's dancing antics during
the penalty shootout, especially as he was substituted on just
for the shootout despite Peru's ultimate loss. Sorry, I do
(29:54):
believe that read, I do believe that Redmain did actually
becomes sort of a cult figure in Peru following the game.
I'd love to hear about how Daniel experienced everything surrounding
that game, including the lead up and aftermath, if he
can bring himself to looking forward to the World Cup
and Australia playing the USA. Thank you, and you'll never
(30:15):
walk alone shout out to John and his favorite song.
So yeah, thank you Simon.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
All right, well, if I can bring myself to answer
this question, that's good. Thank you Simon for this and
for reminding me of a truly terrible day. No, so okay,
So for those of you who don't know, and I
presume that most listeners weren't glued to their televisions watching
the Inter Confederation playoff toe in Peru in Australia four
(30:44):
years ago, but I was, and so were most of
my cousins and family and many friends. So what he's
referring to, what Simon's referring to is the goalkeeper Andrew Redmain,
the second string Australian goalkeeper. They played, the game had
(31:06):
gone to a zero zero fire remember correctly, it was
going went to extra time, then went to penalty kicks,
and it was decided on penalty kicks. They bring on
Andrew Redmain specifically for the shootout, which is something that
isn't often done. And when he says the gray wiggle,
it's because this guy you've seen Sean these kind of
(31:27):
like in front of a used car dealership. They have
the air guy that they just like that inflates and
its arms flap around. So imagine that in the form
of like a six foot six Australian guy with a
beard sort of flapping about, and you can't come off
your line in a soccer shootout, like as the penalty
(31:48):
is taken. When the penalty has taken, your foot has
to be at least one foot has to be on
the line. So he's moving side to side, flapping his
arms like like a deranged giant, you know, pterodactyl or something,
and completely freaked out the Proven players. I don't remember
how many players missed or who missed. I've blocked it
all out. I just know that as soon as he
started flapping his arms, I knew that we were going
(32:10):
to lose, and we did. So now how do I
feel about that? I have a lot of thoughts about this.
I happened to be at the twenty eighteen game when
Peru qualified playing New Zealand, and there's a huge difference,
and the difference and the core difference is in twenty eighteen,
those games were played home and away, So the proven
(32:31):
team flew to New Zealand played there zero zero, then
the flew back to Lima. The New Zealand team flew
to Lima and was completely overwhelmed by playing in a
Peruvian stadium full of Peruvian fans. They must have been
(32:51):
jet lagged. When they were trying to rest, the Peruvian
Air Force flew a plane over their hotel to keep
them from resting. There were fans camped out their home
till all night long, playing and singing drums. You know.
I remember being at the stadium and just I could
tell how overwhelmed the Kiwis were with the with the atmosphere,
(33:15):
you know, two hours before the game, the stadium was
full and everyone was singing. I mentioned that because it's
a huge disadvantage for us to play a game in
a neutral territory. And I can't remember actually where they played,
but when we played Australia on neutral ground, we lost
all the atmosphere and that we lost it was like
playing a man down for Peru. Having said that, we
(33:37):
you know, we didn't we didn't do great. We didn't.
We didn't we didn't get we didn't really deserve to
get through. We didn't play with any sort of authority
or attacking verve. And when it went down to penalties shootouts.
You know, when it goes to penalty shootouts, anyone can win.
And and as soon as Andrew Redman started throwing his
arms around, it was obvious to me what was going
(33:59):
to happen. So there it is. That's the story. Very
painful to remember, but thank you Simon for your question
and for making me relive that trauma.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
The gray wiggle reminds me of I know, we've talked
a little bit about how John was sort of the
ultra in our high school during soccer matches when he
would come to watch. But I also have feel like
I have memories of him doing that during basketball games
to try to rattle whoever was shooting free throws on
(34:33):
the other team, doing a similar dance, as well as
yelling to to try to, you know, rattle the shooter.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Does that bring all? Yeah, And I think these are
the kinds of skills that the intangibles that John brings
to any sporting sporting endeavor.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
You know.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Uh, it's his ability to or his willingness to embrace
the absurdity and his complete lack of shame that really
make him the expector in all kinds of sports. But yeah,
we having said that you know here we're talking about John.
(35:14):
We miss him. We'll see him next week, I'm sure.
And in the meantime, Sean, thanks for filling in. Man.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah, no, this was this was awesome. I appreciate you
bringing me up to read through some of these emails.
And yeah, I please everyone out there keep sending them in.
We we love reading them and maybe yours will end
up in a future episode. But yeah, we look forward
to having John back with us next week.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
And thanks so much to everybody for listening. Thanks so
much again. Our note is away endpod at gmail dot com,
and we'll see you next week.
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