March 9, 2022 • 63 mins
This week the boys dive headfirst into the Dua Lipa Levitating lawsuit as she is getting sued for copyright infringement. Later, we’ve seen the rise of catalog sales but are we witnessing the fall? According to Dan Weisman & Adam Sansiveri this could be the case. Then, Epic Games buys Bandcamp… what now? This and more every week on The Biztape!
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Sources:
Dua Lipa Lawsuit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT3DghWbk2A&t=114s
Selling Catalogs is Dead:
https://www.billboard.com/pro/song-catalog-sales-inflation-impact-interest-guest-column/
Epic Games Buys Bandcamp:
https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/epic-games-acquires-bandcamp-1235194180/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Dua lipa copyright lawsuit, Epic Games buys band Camp and
is selling catalogs over you're listening to the biz Tape.
(00:23):
Welcome to episode seventy three of the biz Tape You're
All Things, Music, Business and Media podcast. I'm your host
Colin McKay with my co host Joseph Bozowski. Joe, how
are you doing today? Media? Media? Yeah, media past, and
we're just I'm just like trying to cut it down,
(00:44):
trying to just save time when I came exactly, you know,
like time is money in our industry. Calling apparently, yes,
so let's waste some of your time and talk about
what what what were we doing? Uh So, first off,
as always, we got our Socialist at the Bus Day
email at the Day podcast at gmail dot com, which
is actually gonna be pretty important for this one because
(01:04):
I am announcing that we're starting to do playlists. Um
now you're probably like, what do you mean, Like, is
it a playlist of you and Joe? No, that's just yeah,
hot takes playlists. It's just it's just occasional, like it's
just a fire cap like crackling and then like us
just sipping whiskey and then occasionally saying something, well, you
(01:25):
take hot takes in a different direction than I thought,
but literalist I was thinking like I was thinking of
it in a more like hot. Wait. Anyway, so the playlists, Yeah,
I thought it'd be fun to do this, and they're
going to be part of the newsletter, and the first
one is going to be on Friday when our newsletter
comes out. And I again, I want to put this
(01:46):
because I haven't really had a platform to say yet.
Thanks for everybody that's been looking at the newsletter and
you know, looking at the links and everything. Appreciated if
you have. If you don't know about our newsletter, it's
pretty much everything I couldn't fit into the show and
all the important stuff like that. I only got to
round an hour, so I gotta speed it up here. Anyway,
first playlist that we're doing, all of them are gonna
(02:07):
be pretty meme worthy. But the first one is called
Freeze Frame End Credit Energy. Now you may wonder exactly
I mean. It comes in the title, but you may
wonder what I mean. Now, this is exactly at the
end of the movie, you know, where our characters are
getting everything tied up in a little bow. We're figuring
out and then like the sinc License guy turns up
the fader and so it slowly fades in, you know,
(02:32):
he comes in the guy he plays the song mark
exactly realistically. I bet there's a director that's done that.
But yeah, so these are all songs that play at
the end of a movie, or like my idea of it.
They're not, you know, some of them may be a movie,
some of them may not. But my idea is that
(02:53):
like all of these would be like where your character
does the little inner monologue, you know at the end
where he's like, you know, is looking at you sum random.
I was looking for treasure on treasure planet so far away,
but the real treasure was the family around me. And
then the drumbeach Honey, I can see this stuff, you know,
like that's what I'm talking about. And then the credit
(03:14):
role and it's like, you know, in memory of or whatever.
I don't know why I went with the most morbid
thing in the credits, but we went there. But yeah,
that's what all the songs are. They're gonna be on Hope.
Hopefully I'm gonna give him to Joe and he's gonna
put them on Spotify for us, and you can find
those on Joe's Spotify and public playlists, and then for
us Lamo's on YouTube music, it will also be there
(03:36):
because this is where I'm making the playlists. And uh, actually,
if you want to sneak peek for the two percent
of you, they're actually on YouTube music. You could find
it under my name. But I'm gonna give it to
Joe on Friday and he'll upload it on there and
I'll put in the newsletter. And the reason I brought
this up with the email is that if you want
to send me a song or anything, obviously it doesn't
(03:57):
even have to if you're not an artist or anything,
or if you just think of something that would be funny,
like if they played at the end of a movie,
you know that nice little we're turning up the song
on the background as the credits roll in. Please feel
free to email or message us right now. I got about,
let's see thirty five songs that I think are pretty
good for that, and they all range from you know
(04:19):
that I put when You Die by MGMT, which is
a real sci fi song, which I joke is like
the sci fi movie like this would be Dune too,
would be like we can never find what really is
left on a wreckus? What happened to the dude? I
haven't seen this movie? Yeah, what happened to Dune? The character? Yeah,
and then that was like a pretty cool guy. And
(04:39):
then you heard me singing love on Top, which I
would imagine would be a nice little like family wrap up. Actually,
I feel like it would be like more of a
movie about you know, loving your friends more than like
your work life. And then that would be like the
Hallmark movie of it um anyway, Yeah, so that's kind
of the that's kind of the vibe. So if you
want to send me a song for the free se
frame and credit energy, feel free. I think it'd be fun,
(05:02):
interactive and as always, if you want to be reminded
of that, you can find that on the newsletter. So
all right, let's just get right into it. I think
that is enough of a promo for the newsletter. And
here we go with the first big story that you
may have seen. I have seen this everywhere. I have
seen everyone make it. Everybody has an opinion. Everybody has
an opinion about It's like I feel like every copyright lawsuit,
(05:26):
like big name copyright lawsuit. Everyone suddenly is a copyright expert.
Wasn't gonna joke? Is like a we actually have an
opinion on it. It would be weird if we were
really like Neutronians, like we are neutral, you know, but yeah,
we have an opinion about it. But I'm gonna link
a couple of resources for this in the bottom us.
All our sources are with some Billboard articles and then
(05:49):
also to YouTube videos from Adam Neely and Rick Botto,
which is kind of funny because they kind of both
serve as like I don't know if you if you
guys don't know, but like a Supreme Court decision, they
have the affirming and the dissenting opinion. That's kind of
what they are is that like Adam Neely is like
the dissenting opinion and Rick Byatto is like the affirming
(06:10):
opinion about why maybe this lawsuit needs to happen. So yeah,
let's bring you up the speed. And so basically what's
going on is is that do Alipa is getting sued
by a band called Article sound System for their song
live Your Life for do Alipa song levitating. Uh. Now,
there's a couple of weird intricacies that I kind of
(06:33):
want to cover with this. First off, the lawsuit is
only five pages, not tiny. It is very unusual for
a lawsuit of this size in terms of going after
someone as big as do Alipa with a song that
was number one I think in I I believe correctly
(06:56):
uh to only have five pages. Usually they're at least
fifty forty pages. But yeah, it doesn't even detail musically
what they think is the infringing part, which usually they
use what's known as like a musicologist, and they get
someone who has an expertise and actually music theory and
all that kind of stuff, and they usually will literally
put notation of like you know, trouble clefts and all
(07:18):
that kind of stuff, and notation staff showing like this
rhythm is the same, this melody is the same, but
there's none of that. And the dissenting opinion, Adam Neely
actually said that because he thinks it's because a musicologists
might not even want to deal with this, doesn't even
think it's worthy enough to go to bat. That's just
a rumor. But yeah, it's in contrast to a lot
(07:38):
of different lawsuits like Normandy and Sam Smith are actually
getting suited currently for dancing with a stranger and that
lawsuit was eighty pages. So yeah, it's strange on that front.
It's coming out of nowhere. The song Lived Your Life
came out in tween do a Leap a song came
out in so this is to you know, two years later,
really after the prominence of that song, even though do
(08:00):
us still prominently performing and touring that uh. And the
only thing in the lawsuit really they said was quote
highly unlikely that Levitating was created independently. That was like there,
you know, pointing fingers moment in the lawsuit. There wasn't
like this is the same. That was it. It's only
five pages. You can't really do much. So I thought
(08:20):
it'd be fun. Is what I'm gonna do. In of
preface this is I'm gonna play a little of Levitating,
and then i'm gonna play a little of the Live
Your Life song, which I'm gonna go on Mike and
say I'm claiming fair use on this. We're just gonna
go I've seen a lot of other shows do this too,
but I'm claiming fair use on this specifically because I
would like to teach you guys about it. I'm only
gonna play a snip bit of it, just to be careful.
(08:42):
So if this has gone like the sound of that,
I guess we're just gonna, I don't know, hum the
song afterwards or something. You know, you'll hear my voice instead,
um or yeah, Joe will do one, I will do
the other. And so first song up here is du
leap As Levitating, which is being sued by Live Your Life,
(09:02):
and that came out in and it will be right now,
I got you come come alright. Cool? That was Levitating
(09:29):
by Dualipa. And then the song that is causing this
lawsuit is Live your Life by Article sound System and
that is going to play right here. Okay, cool, So
(10:00):
just to give you a vibe if you weren't up
to speed about it. So they sound very similar, as
you probably noted. I mean, this is the thing that
I know people who are really related to music are like,
once they learn about this lawsuit, they're like, wow, this
sounds similar. Um. They are actually in the same key.
They almost have the same chord progression, except do As
(10:21):
resolves back to the tonic the actual key that it's
in at the end instead of going staying in the
same chord, So it's a four chord progression. So that
helps any of my music people out there. Also, some
people are pointing out the rhyme scheme of the song
is very similar with them using the word night in
both things, and like the rhyming of pattern with the
(10:42):
rhyme scheme is very similar. I can't really I'm not
a poet, so I can't really break that one down
for you. But yeah, it's interesting because first off, this band,
I'm sure some of you are like, who is this band?
Are they a nothing band? Like I never heard of
this band? Well, this band kind of has like this
weird I want to say, like proving ground where it's
(11:07):
almost like some people are like, no, they're a real band.
Some of them are like no, they're like a little band.
And the reason it's going to be important later is
because they're going to try to argue in court that
obviously they copied the song, so they want to prove
that their song isn't enough prominence or dare I say it,
maybe somebody actually listened to their song live Your Life
and that they're gonna say in court they copied it.
(11:28):
So how big is this band? They were number two
on the Reggae chart for the EP Smoke and Mirrors,
which Live Your Life is from in and I found
this on the Billboard Charts search. I did find it,
so I believe it's correct. But for some reason I
saw just what a misinformation where they're like, I don't
think this is real or whatever, and I'm like that
(11:49):
I found it, so it's a real thing. If you've
heard any misinformation about that, which is going to be
important because, like I said, they're going to argue that
this is in the public sphere enough. It's an number
two songs on the reggae charts, so they're gonna say
it was actually possible, more likely possible than us just
putting this out into the big blue ether that is
the Internet and hoping you listen to it. No, this
(12:11):
is a number two song. You might have actually listened
to the I've decided and that the matrix T Yeah,
it's just one since zero is going up and down.
It's blue green. I've never seen a red Internet in
a movie anyway. Moving on, so a lot of people
are very divided about again, the actual prominence of this song.
(12:35):
It is difficult to find this song. I will say
that the only things I've found, which Adam Neeley actually
pointed out too, was that there's a SoundCloud link to
it and a YouTube video that I've personally listened to,
but it wasn't uploaded by the band. It was like
someone uploaded it from Yeah, somebody else did it. It
wasn't like they were facilitating it. And in the lawsuit
(12:56):
they claim you can basically find it everywhere like Spotify,
Amazon and all the usual suspects, so that that's really strange. Also,
Adam points out that the CD has been out of
stock for a long time and on Spotify all of
its great out so it's like not there anymore. And
I haven't really seen anyone like find some digging that
(13:17):
it was like recently taken down or anything like that.
So yeah, it's really debatable how much in the front
this was. So it was like physically possible for them
to have listened to Live Your Life, But it's in
this weird middle ground of argument enough I think to
go to trial about to be like you might have
(13:38):
actually heard this song, even though both sides have a
pretty good argument on whether they could have actually heard
this song. Um. Another weird theory I saw is that
this van articles Archid Trick sound System also released an
album as of February first, leading the theories that this
(13:59):
was to promote the new album, which I was like,
that's a little of a stretch because it costs a
lot of money. They get a lawyer, and you can't
really like time a lawsuit as efficient as efficiently as
you think. You know, there's a lot of prep work
to that and stuff. But it is a little coincidental, coincidental.
They've kind of, you know, been off the radar a
(14:20):
little bit when it comes to release schedule, and then
all of a sudden, it seems like, in my opinion,
they were like, Okay, you know, we're really coming back
into this thing. We're trying to be a big band. Well,
let's get right. But it's like, let's get all our
ducks in a row, and one of our ducks is
making an album and one of it is talking to
(14:43):
So the worst part for do Ah that I've personally found,
which I haven't seen a lot of people talk about,
is that the band has a certified copyright for the
actual song from the United States Copyright Office. If you
don't know that much about copyright, Basically, there's a short
dirty copyright is what I'll call it. Which is where
you put it into a fixed medium, so like you
(15:05):
write out a song or you record a song. Therefore
you get a you know, quick and dirty. Nobody says
that you have a copyright, but we just all assume, hey,
this is yours because you created it. But it's hard
to prove. It's hard to prove. And I mean you
can go back and be like, we had the recording.
But this is kind of the issue with copyright is
(15:25):
that people, multiple people if they were there, can be like, well,
maybe I wrote more of the song. Maybe I've wrote
more of the song. So to cover that situation, you
can certify your copyright and get like literally a copyright
number from the copyright office, and that says, hey, this
is our song, this is who made it, it's all here.
This means we own it for sure, there's nothing in
(15:46):
the air. This is actually the copyright. And then someone
from the copyright office looks at that application and they
approve it. And the reason why I'm bringing this up
is that it's important because it shows that they were
one willing to try to protect this song that they
made by having, you know, the power that a copyright
brings you, which is the ability to go against other
(16:07):
songs and go, hey, this is our actual song all
of this case. And also it shows that they have
precedent over Duelipa if it somehow got proved, because it's like, hey,
we certify our copyright three years before you did. Yeah,
so that's why it's important. Um, And what I've seen
(16:28):
so far from reactions, which I'll go into now, because
that was kind of the quick facts of that is
very mixed. Like you're saying, I mean, I know you've
seen like all these people that are like, no, this
song is really similar, they should be sued. I've seen both.
I've seen every argument in the book, Like I've seen
the conspiracy album theory one all the way to what
(16:48):
are what are some of you seen? I'm sure you've
seen some Joe like people are just talking about this
like crazy, Yeah, I mean for sure. I mean it's
all over TikTok, right everybody. It's it's kind of hey,
I got a phone, I'm gonna be right exactly. But
like it's it's kind of that that feeling where it
is very left or right, like there really isn't much
(17:10):
middle ground of like well maybe there's like some sort
of kind of midway here, people either think do stole
the song or she didn't is kind of the public
opinion factor, but realistically it's probably somewhere in between. Yeah. Absolutely. Um.
I also think like it is a bit uh concerning
(17:32):
that we can't really access the song that supposedly got
ripped off. Yeah, and that that's going to be an
argument in chord for sure. Is like you you think
we stole your song, but we can barely find and
and that is like something that people have been talking about,
um in a lot of forums and stuff, and I
think it is something that as as a um as
(17:54):
a legal strategy, I don't think it really helps to
take the song down. I don't. I don't. That's the
thing is like, that's what nobody knows, is like, was
this always was? Again? The only thing I've seen is
the lawsuit itself says this was available everywhere, and then
we've seen, you know, it be on Spotify and great out,
(18:15):
which means like you can't play it or do anything
like that, and the CD is on there, but it's
just weird. It seems like it went out of print
or something. So like my theory right now is like
the band was like Okay, we got life stuff to
deal with, or we're going to back away from the band,
and then they're like, let's come together, let's make this
new album and guys, yeah, and so like that's what
(18:38):
I think. So yeah, let's here's some of the bigger
reactions I've seen is like I mentioned Adam Neely a
couple of times. He also notes that Outcasts Rose Rosa
Parks is very similar as well, which I've seen people
and like bring up and even do a Lapa herself
says she was influenced by Outcast for this album, which
(19:01):
we can get into a little later. But I do
think it's a little different because of the way of
the formatting of the songs, just because the Outcast song
doesn't seem to have like that part, specifically, the levitating
chorus like line be the centerpiece of the song and
the live your life song and Levitating seem to have
that you all Night be like the main part of
(19:22):
their song as opposed to Outcast just feels like a
little part of the end. But that's where it gets
difficult and this and I kind of want to bring
this up before I go any further. Unlike a lot
of copyright cases. Usually, from what I've seen, there's a
lot of people that go, why is this artist getting sued?
There's kind of like this tangential I kind of see
(19:45):
that these songs are similar. And then it usually takes
like a musicologist to come in and go, this is
why it sounds similar. We need someone with expertise. But
what's interesting here, which I think is going to make
this a landmark case, is that it's almost the opposite
of that relationship. A lot of the general public is going,
these songs are so similar. They're so similar, I can't
(20:07):
even tell them. I can barely tell them apart, like
and all that kind of stuff. And then a musicologist
now and a lot of people I've seen the music
community are now going, actually, I'm gonna tell you why
this is different. And it seems like, you know, now
we have this vocal majority that's saying these songs are
too close, and then we have a minority that's a
(20:28):
dissenting opinion, as opposed to most of these frivolous lawsuits
that I've seen before, where it's a lot of the
general public goes, I don't get it, how are these
songs similar? And then a musicologist or the music community
has to go. Actually, they're very similar, and that's gonna
be really interesting from a legal sense, because there's gonna
be a lot of pressure on this from the public,
(20:48):
unlike a lot of these other cases towards dualipa, like
actually the person getting sued, unlike the other ones where
it was like, hey, you should stop suing my favorite
artist because I don't understand why these are similar. But yeah,
it's kind of a mess. But wait, like a sad
Billy May's legal Billy Mays, there's more. Um Do is
(21:12):
also being sued by two other songwriters for two songs
they penned, which are called the Timeless names of Wiggle
and Jiggle all Night and Don Diablo, which is from
nine and they claim that instead of the chorus you
know the you all Night, they are going after the
(21:35):
descending lines in the verses are very similar. You know,
if you want to run away with me, I know
a galaxy, you know that kind of descending line, because
both of their songs have that. So it's admittedly there
there's are a little weaker because their songs are also
kind of hard to find. But from what I've seen,
Don Dieblo actually has a strong following. I guess someone
(21:57):
who's more of an expert in Spaniard pop music could
tell me. But has fourteen million views on YouTube, so
it must have some falling, but I can't really find
it on streaming services easily. But the point is is
it seems that this first lawsuit is opening up other
lawsuits and people going we can actually take a chance here.
And at the end of the day, there seems to
(22:18):
be a lot of I've kind of gone with a
lot of the dissenting opinion from Adam Neely where I've said, like, oh,
this is why they're different, and there's other songs that
have used it, But like, I'm going to go to
the affirming opinion real quick. For our last thing before
we go to general discussion, is Rick Botto, who's a
music YouTuber, brought up that you know, if these bands
are being copied and they feel like they're sincerely being copied,
(22:39):
it could be a situation where you know, there's a
chance that they that one of the songwriters from Duliba
heard this and was like, either maliciously or not, was like, hey, duo,
let's song write this together and do this. And Rick
brings up the point that finding a lawyer to take
on these cases is very difficult because a lot of
(23:01):
lawyers don't want to do it. So there could be
a situation where this band sincerely might have had their
song copied and they just haven't been able to get
a lawyer of this entire time. But I'll go back
to the sending before we go. Adam Neely encounters that
this might be due to how vague the connection of
the two songs actually is, Like no lawyer wanted to
(23:22):
take the case because it's a bad case. Well, yeah,
I mean it's it's pretty difficult, especially like you know,
I don't think anybody's really paying attention to the reggae charts.
You know, there's just something. And that's the worst thing
about all of this for Dual Lapo specifically because again
they just foun out the lawsuit. They haven't gone to
trial or anything yet. Is that a lot of these
(23:43):
questions are arguable, which means that they need to get
answers for it, which means we need to go to
trial or worse to a leap but might cutter losses
and go I'm going to give you a settlement right now.
At that point, I feel like public pay and would
side with the band because it's like an affirmation. Yeah exactly.
(24:05):
I actually did see a lot of people um talking
about how she she should pull a like a um
Olivia Rodrigo and like interpolation. Yeah, so that and like
I'm partnering with them and giving them song credits. So yeah,
I mean we've seen that with a notable band that
tried to steal another lady's name called Lady A and
(24:28):
that we'll see how that worked out. But what I'm
saying with that is that could be a thing of compensation,
Like if she if they wanted to go for it
and she was like, hey, I'll you know, part of
my compensation to you is, uh, maybe instead of you
getting a full copyright, here, we're gonna give you you know,
you're gonna be the opener of our tour. That's gonna
(24:51):
be great for your band, right, and then's gonna let
them open for her tour. But like with that, that's
what I'm saying is like we could do that, Like
there's more forms of compensation and then just like hey,
I'm gonna give you a songwriting credit for the rest
of your life. Can you imagine like getting sued by
somebody and then getting on their tour, like getting them
on your tour. The interesting part of it is like
(25:14):
I don't know, we don't we don't really know. What
do we leave a response to this year? Is yet.
The thing about all of these copyright lawsuits, and I've
talked to a couple of people about it, is because
it's trying to make anything with the law and music
and media and art is taking subjective and making it
objective because there has to be a line crossed somewhere.
(25:36):
A song has to be able to be owned by someone,
because to have ownership of something can give it value.
So that's why the entire industry works. Songwriters write songs,
they say they get to own it parts of you know,
maybe make a deal with you know, their publishing agent, whatever.
But somebody gets to own it, monetize it. And that's
what keeps the wheels going, is that that ownership thing.
(25:59):
But you know, on the philosophical side about music and
all this kind of stuff, ownership and it's weird to
be like I own this song, so like anything close
to it no days, you know, Like, but that that's
the weird part about it, And that's kind of At
the end of the day, the job of the copyright
office and the legal system is to figure out where
(26:21):
that line is between subjective and objective, and it's it's
super strange to try to draw it. And I think
a lot of people have been going towards this is
getting insane. You guys are being way way too lenient
when it comes to copyrights. And all these people who
(26:43):
had no chance, never heard these songs, didn't know about it,
are getting sued for stuff that they didn't do, you
know what I mean. Like, at the end of the day,
where's the line? How much of music can you own?
You know what I mean? And like I think people
understand it's like if you directly copy a song, like
if I took dual Leap with levitating, put it on
(27:04):
flash drive and sold it. That makes sense. But like
when you start, you know, it's like that analogy where
if you take a plank off of a ship over
time and you replace the whole ship with a different,
you know, set of wood, is it a new ship?
Like that's kind of what it is. Is Like you're
just sitting there and you're like, where is the line?
(27:25):
Where where are we legally going to say this is
different now, and it's weird because it's well, it's hard
feeling popular, Yeah, it's feeling. And then popular music in
general is it's sounds that are popular, right, Like if
you just listen to the top forty like airplay, it's
going to sound identical sometimes like a lot of those cars. Yeah, exactly,
(27:50):
And so it's it is. It is very difficult, especially
like when the industry is just kind of like fun
it just you know, take inspiration from places. I do
feel like there is a lot of um idea stealing
that people don't ever get called out for because they
(28:10):
are huge artists and they just never It just feels
like a system where no one really you know, justly
wins exactly it it never wins. And like, to be honest,
like even if these people win the lawsuit, at the
end of the day, they're not going to be like
as big as Dualiva. You know. It's something that like
when you have a song take off, it's that song
(28:32):
has a life of its own at that point. It's
not it's not like you can just uh increase your
own I guess popularity or success. If you're suing someone
for that song, you know, what I mean that interesting
is like, yeah, I completely actually do. Alipa said something
(28:54):
close to that because I put on our Instagram about
I was listening to the song Exploder episode about Levitating,
which is basically a podcast. It's a great podcast, but
it's about explaining how songs occur and how they're created,
and there was one about levitating, and she actually brought
up that same point where she at the end of
the episode start talking and she's like, I don't feel
(29:16):
like this is my song anymore. I feel like the
fans owned this song through their experience and what they know,
and when they stream it, like it's not my song anymore. Yeah, exactly,
because it's so when when a song becomes so massive
like that, it's like it's it's in pop culture history
at that point. Yeah, it's so weird that line of subjective,
(29:39):
like subjective versus objective. And then also you know that
collaborative nature of music, but also that not to collaborative.
You know you're gonna get sued, but like that's the
whole thing, and this is people in this industry man, right,
this is like one of the biggest lawsuits I've seen
a while. That doesn't feel super frivolous, and I'm interested
(30:03):
to follow it, and uh, like this might be as
big as the Blurred Lines Marvin Gay case, which was
if you guys don't know astronomical, which copyright music works.
And that's the thing is, like all these different mediums
have their own different rules, and it's weird because some
of it is illegal and then some of it is
(30:24):
just kind of this. Okay, we understand that this amount
of copying kind of happens, like this amount of collaboration
just happens. There's influence, you know what I mean. But
where that line draws is up to the law and
up to the copyright office, and what they determine determines
all the precedent for everything, and I'll be interested to
see what happens. I would also shout out that song
(30:45):
exploit Or episode because it was interesting to see how
it was formed because the producer apparently like brought the
core like the he bought a keyboard, played literally levitating
for the first time on the keyboard he bought, and
was like, this is the song and brought it to
the set and she sang over it with like a
couple other songwriters. Is the episode, but It's like one
(31:06):
of those things where I'm like, what if it is
crazy and they could figure out it was like actually
he was. I believe his name is cause like what
if they could prove that he listened to the song somehow,
Like imagine if they subpoenaed his like Spotify. Yeah, literally,
I'm not even joking, Like if they were like we
want causes, Spotify shuffles all your iPod classics or Spotify is.
(31:32):
And then there's another producer named Stuart Price who does
a lot of the stuff that honestly, it felt like
he made the song Closer to Live Your Life inadvertently
if he did. But at the end of the day,
he's using a lot of tropes that seventies disco music uses,
that reggae uses, and that between influence and you can
just trace it back and back and back, and it
is difficult, um to kind of set the line. Um.
(31:55):
Do you think that these lawsuits are important though, because
of you know how pop music it sounds all the same.
Don't you think we need something in order to make
artists accountable to create new things instead of just recycling
the work. Yeah, funny enough, you know what that is.
It's called copyright. That's the reason why that exists is
(32:18):
because they thought you have an individual mark for this
song can use for it. At the end of the day,
this is kind of doing its job, even if it's
like we don't really know if if to uh stole
the song. Like at the end of the day, this
is not supposed to be easy. These kind of decisions
are not This is extremely difficult. But where you land them,
(32:42):
you know, is this a subjective choice versus an objective
choice to be like a song. That's what is the
job of the law in the copyright office. And honestly,
then moving between the two things is the most important thing,
is trying to strike a balance between those two things.
Are we being too lenion or are we not? And
(33:03):
I asked everybody on Instagram, which I do a poll
on there, what they thought about it. It's also on
Twitter and the rest of the week if you want
to vote for it. And basically what I said was,
do you think there are too many copyright lawsuits today?
Shortened sweet and seventy of you said yes, and thirty
of you of you said no? And I think that's
(33:23):
kind of what I've seen is like a lot of
people are like, yeah, but I don't know how much.
There's this huge hodgepodge of how much you know about music,
how much you don't know about music, what you think
is subjective, what you think is copying, what you think
is you know, legally suitable. That kind of stuff is
(33:43):
all up in the air and its personal preference. And
the worst part about the law is that it's trying
to make a lot of personal preferences, because music, you know,
unlike a lot of crimes, is a very personal thing
into something that can be objective and we can use
later on, which is what causes precedent. So this is
gonna be a huge case. I think it's gonna be
(34:05):
going on for a while. I think it's gonna go
to trial. The only way is that if do what
comes with a very lucrative settlement of some kind. I'm
interested to see what she does. Her career has been
very interesting from legally because she was sued by the paparazzi,
which we covered about ten episodes ago, and recently she
fired her management and has her dad as her manager. Now,
(34:26):
whose experience, believe it or not, in like high not
in music. But I tried to add him on LinkedIn
funny enough because I was like, no one's gonna add
to its dad. Maybe they'll add me back, and uh yeah,
So I'm interested to see and I almost wonder. I'm like,
what if they heard about this lawsuit down the pipeline,
because I feel like it would totally be If I
was the band, I'd be like, let's let's send something
(34:47):
to do with first, Let's see if she'll give us
the money. We'll be like, we won't go big with this,
just give us like, you know, this amount of money,
and like some other stuff. And then like what if
her management was like, hey, you're getting sued and like
on top of all the other ship, maybe the that
they didn't like, they were like, I'm done with you,
You're fired. Can you imagine how crazy of a story
that would be. That would be pretty bad shut So,
(35:08):
like there's just a lot of levels going. Maybe maybe
we should get Daddy do a on the I would
love if he wants to come on. That'd be great. Um,
I'm gonna show him the new biz tape theme song
that goes biz tape things, music, all media everything. She'll
be like, He'll be like, I love that song. Where
did you get that song from sounds like a reggae song.
(35:29):
Sounds like a number two charting reggae song. Wow, that's crazy.
Well going on, there's a lot of things we talked
about on this podcast. We go from I don't know,
ualipa getting sued to catalogs getting bought out. Yeah, and
I feel like we've talked about how these catalogs have
(35:51):
been by bought these huge, substantial works um for a
lot of fucking money. Right on, it's a lot and
funny enough, this is uh one of the articles that
was in the newsletter last week, and I decided to
bump it up to main Joe Baby. It was just
I was reading more well, I was reading more about it,
(36:14):
and I was like, this is too important not to
bring to our main platform. And Joe was, you know,
brought it here, and I was like, you know, I
covered this on the newsletter. But I'm really glad because
it's just been It's crazy to think about because I
think a lot of people think that these green pastures
of selling multimillion dollar catalogs will continue forever. Yeah, exactly,
because I mean we've just seen we've seem so many artists,
(36:37):
um like get tons of money out of it. So
going off of like why catalogs are important, right and
the sale of these have been so important is you
got to look two years ago when the pandemic was
we were in the throes of it. Literally there was
no income coming into the music industry at one point,
(36:59):
you know, I mean about you could argue you know, sinc.
And then mechanical royalties, but that was recorded, but it
was still very low. It was about Yeah, that was
about it. And so a lot of these publishing companies
had to figure out, well, ship, what do we do
for these quarters because we're not bringing in enough money?
And what do we do calling it's an investment what year?
(37:23):
That's right, it's an investment year. Baby. When your company
is going in the star, what do you do? You
buy more ships? Kind I was afraid to answer that question,
but yeah, so Dan Weissman and Adam since uh San
Savory Adam San Savory from Billboard dive into how like
(37:45):
this is going to change a lot, right, because there
was this trend of like all these companies buying and
um hopefully potentially selling them down the road years later.
But according to them, rising inflation and interest rates are
raceome to catalog buyers and sellers, as payouts later down
the line may not pack the same punch as they
(38:07):
would have before. Now, to think about inflation, you must
first know like how interest rates and bonds interact with
each other, as well as like what they do. So,
according to investor dot gov quote, a bond is a
debt security similar to an IOU. There will be a
test at the end. Yeah, yeah, this is you're all
(38:27):
getting tested. But borrows, thank you, thank you. Barrows issue
bonds to raise money from investors willing to lend them
money for a certain amount of time. And when you
buy a bond, you are lending to the issuer, which
may be a government like company or corporation. In return,
(38:48):
the issuer promises to pay you a specified rate of
interest during the life of the bond and to repay
the principle, which is like the face of value. It's
like what you paid up front. So in that bay
me again. So we got you get the bond, You
get the bond. The bond is you're you're getting it
at a fixed rate, right, and if the rate changes
(39:14):
over time, it's gonna chess up how much the bonds
worth ly, So you're you're gonna need to you know,
if you're taking this bond maybe to buy a multimillion
dollar catalog, and the rate increases, you're not going to
make as much money as you would if you bought
the bond earlier when it was interest rate exactly, and
with like how crazy inflation has been this past year. Um,
(39:39):
Like a lot of companies are like their investments in
these they're kind of just like scraping the surface of
what they can get on a return back. So a
lot of companies are actually kind of looking at other
more like sustainable ways of making money at this point,
because this is kind of it's a gamble, right, Like,
you don't know how much these this catalogs are gonna
(39:59):
be worthy idea too, and uh, we don't know really
the effectiveness of buying some of these catalogs yet. I mean,
the idea of buying an entire catalog and not just
being a giant record label and being like we only
facilitate the catalog is a very new idea. So even
the model itself is kind of hazy. So you would
like that to be as secure as possible if you're
(40:20):
going into you know, unsure waters, so they break down
kind of what you look for when you're selling a catalog, right,
or buying a catalog. So quote, let's assume you're selling
your catalog for a multiple of thirteen times it's net
publishers share, which is essentially it's annual gross profit. So
(40:43):
the effective coupon is a hundred divided by thirteen, which
equals seven point six nine percent. As interest rates rise,
a bond with a lower coupon rate will generally experience
a greater decrease in value than one with a higher
coupon rate. So a catalog that sells for a multitude
(41:04):
of thirteen will experience a greater decrease in value than
one that sells for a multiple of ten, because the
buyer is assigning greater value to future cash flows. So
it seems like the trend right is to is to
turn those thirteens into tens, right, And that seems to
be what's happening, And I think more and more buyers
(41:27):
are are kind of taking advantage of that, but they're
also hesitant of like where they're gonna be able to
use this asset in the future, because, like, like we've
been saying, it's gambling, you're gambling. There's a very new
part of the music industry. And and also to like
if anybody is confused and why this sounds like you're
(41:49):
listening to like a finance podcast. Yeah, exactly, it's because
this is probably like one of the more financial heavy
aspects of the music industry because it is like it's
like stocks, you're buying and trading stocks. Yeah, at the
end of the day, this is the same kind of
rhetoric that people will use when they buy a company
(42:10):
or anything like that. This is all about r o I, baby,
return on investment. These are not you know, these people
aren't looking for the love of music. They're looking to
make their investment back. So that's why all these numbers
are kind of important. But at the end of the day,
like just saying, it's like if it costs more money
in the end to get the money to buy this catalog,
(42:31):
because you gotta get a you know, higher inflation rate,
you gotta higher inflation rate, you got a higher rate
of the bond itself. And then we don't even know
if this is going to work out well completely in
the end. We just assume we have some estimations. So yeah,
that's that's why it is, so this is already an
unsecured region to go down. But then when you add
(42:51):
even more unsecurity of you know, making that margin even smaller,
you're less likely to see buyers of these giant catalogs exactly. So,
Inflation also affects sales because it reduces the value of
future royalty payments. And the higher the multiple, the more
pronounced the inflation effect, because more and more payments are
required for the buyer to like make the whole thing back,
(43:14):
if that makes sense. So most catalog purchases worth their
salt use floating or adjustable interest rates, which increase costs
to the borrower as it adjusts depending on the market increases.
So if there's more inflation, your your payments is going
to increase supposedly, right to match that inflation mark. But
(43:35):
you really do have to have like a pretty good
amount of cred I feel like before you're able to
actually get that into your I'm not walking into Bank
of America being like, can I have three million dollars
for like and make it a float account place like
I'd like it float, So like it's gonna be three
million dollars any time any right, if intends you know,
(43:59):
like we're going through the inflation ever right now. So
it would be like if I got one now and
be like, yeah, and inflation gets way worse than a month,
I still only owe you three d million dollars. You
can't be like you owe me three ten million dollars. Nope,
that's all. I still only owe you three hundred dollars dollars. So,
according to the buyers are aware that seven point six
nine return barely beat out inflation last year, which was
(44:23):
seven percent, which according to them, doesn't even figure in
capital So quote when rats, when rats? When rats? Quote
when rates rise and inflation settles, institutional investors will look
elsewhere for return. But that's also true in the restaurant industry.
When rats rise and inflation settles, they will look for
(44:44):
another restaurant. Yeah, exactly, don't let the rats rise. People
don't let them rise. But yeah, so breaking it back
down because I know that's a lot to digest. It
is very very Uh. I don't know, I feel like
a crypto. What's explain it to me? Like I'm two
years old, what's like when basically pandemic happened? No money,
(45:07):
need to find money? Sell catalog, buy catalog to sell
in future. Oh fuck, money is decreasing in value. No
more buying catalog now. We need need to make money now.
So yeah, I mean at the end of the day,
people people aren't looking for Let's see, this was a
(45:29):
point six nine percent return basically, right, and it might
be twenty years from now, you know. But like I said,
this is a risky industry in the first place because
we haven't really seen you know, these literal hedge funds
by these giant catalogs um that before. I mean, this
(45:52):
is what would happen. It would be like Chess Records,
Well you are going out of business, so you're gonna
sell your whole catalog to this other record company. But
this is a huge thing. And why you see these
four million, five million dollar payoffs, it's because these head
funds just go, all right, we'll pay it. We think
it's gonna be worth more money in the future. Since
we got digital technology, you can always stream it, you
(46:13):
can get it anywhere, and we will make sure it's
up there. And people love Bob Dylan, people love Fleetwood Mac,
people love Bruce Springsteen, so people will always listen to it.
We hope, we hope to God, they listen to it,
and then this happens where it's like, guess what, You're
gonna make way less money for sure, and then you're
(46:34):
going into a rocky thing for sure. Uh, it's gonna
make people hesitant. And that's the interesting part. We talked
about it last week with Zack Queen a little bit too,
is like they're kind of running out of catalogs. There
was kind of like a night big gold rush of
all these other catalogs when this just kind of became
a model that people thought could work to buy catalogs,
(46:56):
like a hedge fund buy a catalog. And now we're
even going into country music to buy catalogs. So that's
also another thing that that's what you need to stop. Stop,
you need to cease, and you need to you need
to flood it. Right. Well, I'm just saying this is
more of like we were going into catalogs that for
for sure, like we're gonna make this money back and
(47:18):
then when we're going to catch we don't know. I'm
gonna assume probably we will, but yeah, it's it's uh
chicken waters ahead. So sorry, six million dollar payout, you
are not coming to your favorite We'll Colin speaking of gaming,
(47:39):
how about that? Speaking of payouts, um, Epic Games is
acquiring band Camp, which if you don't this is a
weird headline, but some of you may not be initiated
to this is that if you don't know band Camp,
they're one of the most popular artists pay out heavy
streaming services there is, and you can id music on there.
(48:00):
You can stream it, but the reason why artists love
it is because it's free to upload. They take ten
to fift as they're cut, which is extremely low, and
they have huge quick payouts of twenty four to forty
eight hours directly to pay Pal accounts, and many times
they wave their promotional like they have promotional events where
(48:24):
they just waive the fee completely so you've got a
percent of the money. So for a lot of like
indie artists and artists that aren't as traditional, but I
have loyal fans, this site is a really good place
to make money and they're very fan friendly. If you
don't know Epic Games, they aren't that and they're kind
of the polar opposite also Fortnite. Anyway, Epic will be
(48:49):
acquiring band Camp for an undisclosed amount, but claims band
Camp will operate standalone with its curren CEO and co
founder Ethan Diamond, And I just got a brain last here. Okay,
I think I know why Epic Game Spot. If you
say put music to put music in Fortnite, baby, that's
the whole reason. That's what the meme was. So we're
(49:12):
going to continue. Every band camp artist is going to
be in Fortnite. Now, guys, you will get your indie grunge.
You get a Fortnite. You get a Fortnite Welcome Shoe
Gaze performer into Fortnite. You can play as him, watch
him play a dissonant note for twenty five minutes. Yeah, anyway,
(49:33):
So yeah, that's the meme is that everybody's like, why
do they want all these underground bands and fore right
it's the indie crowd will really respect Fortnite. Knowledge is
going to be out there doing a DJ set well everybody.
So yeah, the point is that it's strange. Um. According
to Epic, they want band Camp to expand internationally and
(49:57):
they're gonna help them doing it with their increased backing.
Their quote to build on other fronts, including its album pages,
mobile apps, merchandise tools, payments, systems, search, and discovery features,
as well as its vinyl and live streaming services. UH
ceo Ethan Diamond wrote on band Camp being acquired, quote,
We've always felt that doing so would only be exciting
(50:19):
if they strongly believed in our mission, were aligned with
our values, and not only wanted to see bandcap continue,
but also wanted to provide the resources to bring a
lot more benefits to artists, labels, and fans who use
the site. Epic Games, the CEO wrote, ticked all of
(50:41):
those boxes, So like, did they like hold your hand
with the pen in your Google Epic Games book. Another
of the memes, this is a strange mixture of brands,
super first strange. If you know, the reason most people
(51:02):
know about Epic is Fortnite. But the reason why Epic
is kind of strange in this is because they've had
this very adversarial coming into the market of almost everything
they've gone into. When they first got Fortnite on Apple,
for instance, they when we've got it on the show,
they went head to head with Apple and going we're
not gonna pay your thirty merchant fee you have for
(51:25):
the store when people buy Fortnite skins. And so what
they did was is they went, so we're just gonna
put our own store in the game that just circumnavigates Apple,
and then Apple was like fuck you, and literally was
like was and then Epic was like, well, you can
do what we want. We're standing up for the little guys.
(51:45):
And then they've gotten a huge lawsuit that's still going.
Epic also has a whole thing with Steam, which is
the other provider of huge amounts of games, where they
were basically like Steams too grubby with their money, their
percentage they're so high. So Epic Games is gonna come
save the little man and we're going to have a
(52:07):
store that's way less of a percentage his voice. Remember
when we make Gears of War back in the day. Anyway,
So yeah, it's really weird because they come into these
like situations where they're like before they started as a
game developer, then they became an online video game store,
(52:28):
very adversarial against Team. Then they went onto iOS Games,
and we're very adversarial against Apple. So I'm like, what
are you doing with band Camp? Are you just gonna
come in here and be like fuck you Apple Music?
Where the cool guys you know, like I don't know,
like why is getting hit, and that's what I imagine
they're just that's how that's how you talk when your
(52:51):
Epic games, you just keep getting you raised the stakes
voice in profit, in you know, gate keeping, and also
in pitch. So like, yeah, it's it seems really weird.
And that's why I wanted to bring it in here
because people are losing their minds with that because Epic
Games was coming in to bring Bandcamp kids to Fortnight anyway, Yeah,
(53:14):
it it That's why I'm concerned, Um Diamond statement is
very like, yeah, we've always loved Epic like they're getting like, yeah,
we've always loved Epic Games, you know what I mean. Like,
and that's what I feel like is I was holding
up a gun to Joe's head, but for audio listeners
(53:36):
right once we make it a clip. So yeah, it's
it's a very strange place. I wanted to put it
in here because band Camp historically has been exceedingly friendly
and the only people it's going to get real mean,
the only people I can then, Yeah, the only thing
I can see it going against is it's you know,
(53:59):
customer and the people who upload to the platform. But
hopefully because they claim that they want to keep it separate,
and to be honest with you, I am very excited
about some of this increased funding and everything going on
with this because band Camp, honestly, that's the worst part
about band Camp is the infrastructure for Bandcamp just flatly sucks. Right.
(54:23):
It looks like an old web page. And it's not
their fault. It's because they purposely had a very low
margin and wouldn't take that much money to support the artists.
But that money has to come from somewhere, so they
would save it by not you know, having the flashiest
features and making it easy to you know, designing web
(54:43):
apps and all that kind of stuff. So I'm very excited.
I hope that Epic is un characteristically non adversarial. But
if they're going to be adversarial to like the space
of streaming and stuff, I hope it is like, you
guys should be paying all of these artists money. We're
gonna do that now. So if you come to band Camp,
(55:05):
then get off Spotify an Apple, you know. Like that's
what I like to imagine that they would do if
they're gonna be adversarial, And I hope at the end
of the day it's like, if you know, the big
bad companies want to get into a war and it
just benefits artists. Yeah, like right, you know what I mean, Like,
if you guys want to be like no, our platform
is the best our plan because Epics ready to go
(55:26):
toe to toe. I just don't know if epics adversarial
nature is going to end up being like against the
consumers of the product and the artists or against other
streaming services. I hope it's streaming services because I've talked
about multiple times how they need to up their stuff. Man.
Now I'm just thinking about other voices for other streams.
(55:47):
I like to imagine it would be like so that's
that's that. I imagine Spotify is like a regular dude.
It's like, Hi, I'm Spotify, how are you? And then
like Apple Music would be like really because Apple Music
because it's really like smooth, just Tim You think it's
Tim Cook? Yeah, yeah, I think it's just Tim Cook,
just like doing a presentation. I guys, we're bringing you
(56:11):
the greatest thing ever to Apple Corporation, and that's music.
We invented music, guys. And then everybody's like who He's like,
pay me money, titles real low. It would be like
(56:33):
that's all it is. This is the best ship you've
ever seen, the best deal. And it's like, Melanie, Man,
it's not the best deal. It's like, shut up, there's
no other string platform that exists. It's just title Like damn,
you're right man. Anyway, Joe, what did you listen to
this week? That crazy nonsense of her voices? Well, I've actually,
(56:57):
you know, I was in a music ren for a
long time, but I really kind of came out of
it on top. I feel like, uh, and I'm I'm
super stoked. I found this artist on TikTok um and
it was just to split second TikTok It wasn't even
that like viral. But his name is Sam Glittery. Uh.
Sam s a M G E L l A I
(57:18):
t r Y And he has an amazing UM single
called Gullible as well as a EP called four and
um it's great. I mean, his production on is pretty amazing.
His vocal on Gullible especially is pretty great. He used
to be, I think, just a producer. He's kind of
(57:39):
like Jimmy E. Stack. Have you ever listened to him?
So he's like I would say, imagine like like like
andy producer meets hip hop producer and like that's kind
of the vibe, if that makes sense. Leaning heavily towards
the indie side, I guess, but like very like heavy
(58:00):
and like electronica stuff that's like more modern and updated. Um.
And and like a lot of dance music which is
really fun. Um. Also, one of my favorite artists, Nilo
for Yanna Yanya, came out with an album Painless Um,
which is amazing. It's a no skip album. You have
(58:23):
to listen to every single track. I'm commanding you two
at this very moment. And also I listened to Third
Eye Blind, Third Eye Blind, I just I was on
a road trip and I was like, you know what,
I never really gave this album a chance, and I
am surprised with how much I like this album now.
(58:44):
It was very instrumental, it's insane, Like I I especially
graduate that song is amazing. The fucking breakdown, it's crazy,
it's awesome. Check it out. UM, let's see, I've been listening.
I was listening to Jeez, which not to be confused
with Easy, is a rapper out of Atlanta that I
(59:04):
remember growing up. I was listening to the radio before
phone finally got a phone by the way into that
saga and uh I was listening to it. I was like, damn,
this song is good, but I'm like, oh my god,
it goes hard. The name of the album and I
recommend is Young Jeez Presents U S D A Cold
Summer the authorized mix tape. It's amazing. Um, I have
(59:25):
another playlist I'm cooking up. I have like five of
them that I have Joe seen some of them. They
all have ridiculous names. They're all like that. But one
of them has to deal with corporate and so one
of the first songs that came into my mind I
was listening to is called Corporate Thuggan on that album,
which I fucking love Corporate Thugan C T E and that.
(59:45):
So it sounds but like, uh, it's really it's just
very two thousands rap, where it's just very heavy, hard
down beats the entire time. You know, you could be
blasting this in your car. He is very notable, specifically
Jeez because between him, Gucci Maine, and Uh oh god,
(01:00:06):
who am I missing t I it is debated about
who which of them started trap music? Oh wow, really yes,
Um yeah, they're there. Between the three of them, they said,
T I started trap music. Look, you think it's weird,
but go listen to T I and you'll be like,
this is pretty close to trap music in some way.
(01:00:27):
If you listen to Okay, if you listen to top
Back by T t I, you can hear like the
beginnings of what trap would be, with like the very
heavy high hats and all that kind of stuff where
it's just, you know, very busy compared to regular you
know what we saw before, which was like G funk
rap and all that kind of stuff, and then what
Kanye was bringing out of Chicago and all that kind
(01:00:48):
of stuff. But yeah, that that's mostly my one. And
then I fucking I try. Look, I tried my best
to branch out as much music as I can, but
I was sitting there hating myself. It's like if you
have like a like a suite at home, or like
you're in the you're in the grocery store, right and
(01:01:08):
you're like, I shouldn't buy these fucking orios. You gotta
get you gotta get those orios. So those oreos are
are like what's getting you through the week. Yeah. So
I was listening to Huey Lewis's first album. You know
you have an abusive relationship I do. I hate how
much I like here. I just spies how much I
(01:01:29):
like listen to the News because I try to be cool.
I fucking try to be cool, and then I go, God,
I just listen to Huey Lewis right now album cover
and it's just it's so bad. That was the first
one I think I ever recommended on the show, and
the album covers so bad. Anyway, it's Huey Lewis in
(01:01:50):
the News by Huey Lewis, and it's so I like
the Okay, the back half of this album I don't
really like as much, but the first half is so good.
It just has like all that standard you know, a
b very solid song, kind of put together. But I
really like it. And the worst part is that now
(01:02:12):
I know that when I watch American Psycho, I will
have a very very educated opinion about when he talks
about Huey Lewis, which they were coming up in their
first album, but then they really hit it together with Sports,
which I would actually agree with because now that I've
listened to this album, Hey, Paul, they really didn't come
(01:02:33):
into their own until Sports, which is really true in
a lot of different ways. I mean, you listen to
Mario's bass patterns any but yeah, anyway, so thanks for
listening to this tape. You're all thanks Music Business and
Media Podcast. We sure do appreciate you. So we got
our socials at the biz Tape as well as our
(01:02:54):
newsletter for everything I could not fit in the shows
well was fun, bts behind the show a pole, and
our newest thing playlist. So again, our playlist this week
is freeze Frame Energy. So any song that you think
would be the greatest freeze frame ending to a movie
would fit in that vein doesn't have to actually be
(01:03:14):
in a movie, just something you think would work. You
feel free to message me or email me at the
biz Tape Podcast at gmail dot com. Anyways, guys, again,
thank you so much for your support and we hope
to see you next time.
Dua lipa copyright lawsuit, Epic Games buys band Camp and
is selling catalogs over you're listening to the biz Tape.
(00:23):
Welcome to episode seventy three of the biz Tape You're
All Things, Music, Business and Media podcast. I'm your host
Colin McKay with my co host Joseph Bozowski. Joe, how
are you doing today? Media? Media? Yeah, media past, and
we're just I'm just like trying to cut it down,
(00:44):
trying to just save time when I came exactly, you know,
like time is money in our industry. Calling apparently, yes,
so let's waste some of your time and talk about
what what what were we doing? Uh So, first off,
as always, we got our Socialist at the Bus Day
email at the Day podcast at gmail dot com, which
is actually gonna be pretty important for this one because
(01:04):
I am announcing that we're starting to do playlists. Um
now you're probably like, what do you mean, Like, is
it a playlist of you and Joe? No, that's just yeah,
hot takes playlists. It's just it's just occasional, like it's
just a fire cap like crackling and then like us
just sipping whiskey and then occasionally saying something, well, you
(01:25):
take hot takes in a different direction than I thought,
but literalist I was thinking like I was thinking of
it in a more like hot. Wait. Anyway, so the playlists, Yeah,
I thought it'd be fun to do this, and they're
going to be part of the newsletter, and the first
one is going to be on Friday when our newsletter
comes out. And I again, I want to put this
(01:46):
because I haven't really had a platform to say yet.
Thanks for everybody that's been looking at the newsletter and
you know, looking at the links and everything. Appreciated if
you have. If you don't know about our newsletter, it's
pretty much everything I couldn't fit into the show and
all the important stuff like that. I only got to
round an hour, so I gotta speed it up here. Anyway,
first playlist that we're doing, all of them are gonna
(02:07):
be pretty meme worthy. But the first one is called
Freeze Frame End Credit Energy. Now you may wonder exactly
I mean. It comes in the title, but you may
wonder what I mean. Now, this is exactly at the
end of the movie, you know, where our characters are
getting everything tied up in a little bow. We're figuring
out and then like the sinc License guy turns up
the fader and so it slowly fades in, you know,
(02:32):
he comes in the guy he plays the song mark
exactly realistically. I bet there's a director that's done that.
But yeah, so these are all songs that play at
the end of a movie, or like my idea of it.
They're not, you know, some of them may be a movie,
some of them may not. But my idea is that
(02:53):
like all of these would be like where your character
does the little inner monologue, you know at the end
where he's like, you know, is looking at you sum random.
I was looking for treasure on treasure planet so far away,
but the real treasure was the family around me. And
then the drumbeach Honey, I can see this stuff, you know,
like that's what I'm talking about. And then the credit
(03:14):
role and it's like, you know, in memory of or whatever.
I don't know why I went with the most morbid
thing in the credits, but we went there. But yeah,
that's what all the songs are. They're gonna be on Hope.
Hopefully I'm gonna give him to Joe and he's gonna
put them on Spotify for us, and you can find
those on Joe's Spotify and public playlists, and then for
us Lamo's on YouTube music, it will also be there
(03:36):
because this is where I'm making the playlists. And uh, actually,
if you want to sneak peek for the two percent
of you, they're actually on YouTube music. You could find
it under my name. But I'm gonna give it to
Joe on Friday and he'll upload it on there and
I'll put in the newsletter. And the reason I brought
this up with the email is that if you want
to send me a song or anything, obviously it doesn't
(03:57):
even have to if you're not an artist or anything,
or if you just think of something that would be funny,
like if they played at the end of a movie,
you know that nice little we're turning up the song
on the background as the credits roll in. Please feel
free to email or message us right now. I got about,
let's see thirty five songs that I think are pretty
good for that, and they all range from you know
(04:19):
that I put when You Die by MGMT, which is
a real sci fi song, which I joke is like
the sci fi movie like this would be Dune too,
would be like we can never find what really is
left on a wreckus? What happened to the dude? I
haven't seen this movie? Yeah, what happened to Dune? The character? Yeah,
and then that was like a pretty cool guy. And
(04:39):
then you heard me singing love on Top, which I
would imagine would be a nice little like family wrap up. Actually,
I feel like it would be like more of a
movie about you know, loving your friends more than like
your work life. And then that would be like the
Hallmark movie of it um anyway, Yeah, so that's kind
of the that's kind of the vibe. So if you
want to send me a song for the free se
frame and credit energy, feel free. I think it'd be fun,
(05:02):
interactive and as always, if you want to be reminded
of that, you can find that on the newsletter. So
all right, let's just get right into it. I think
that is enough of a promo for the newsletter. And
here we go with the first big story that you
may have seen. I have seen this everywhere. I have
seen everyone make it. Everybody has an opinion. Everybody has
an opinion about It's like I feel like every copyright lawsuit,
(05:26):
like big name copyright lawsuit. Everyone suddenly is a copyright expert.
Wasn't gonna joke? Is like a we actually have an
opinion on it. It would be weird if we were
really like Neutronians, like we are neutral, you know, but yeah,
we have an opinion about it. But I'm gonna link
a couple of resources for this in the bottom us.
All our sources are with some Billboard articles and then
(05:49):
also to YouTube videos from Adam Neely and Rick Botto,
which is kind of funny because they kind of both
serve as like I don't know if you if you
guys don't know, but like a Supreme Court decision, they
have the affirming and the dissenting opinion. That's kind of
what they are is that like Adam Neely is like
the dissenting opinion and Rick Byatto is like the affirming
(06:10):
opinion about why maybe this lawsuit needs to happen. So yeah,
let's bring you up the speed. And so basically what's
going on is is that do Alipa is getting sued
by a band called Article sound System for their song
live Your Life for do Alipa song levitating. Uh. Now,
there's a couple of weird intricacies that I kind of
(06:33):
want to cover with this. First off, the lawsuit is
only five pages, not tiny. It is very unusual for
a lawsuit of this size in terms of going after
someone as big as do Alipa with a song that
was number one I think in I I believe correctly
(06:56):
uh to only have five pages. Usually they're at least
fifty forty pages. But yeah, it doesn't even detail musically
what they think is the infringing part, which usually they
use what's known as like a musicologist, and they get
someone who has an expertise and actually music theory and
all that kind of stuff, and they usually will literally
put notation of like you know, trouble clefts and all
(07:18):
that kind of stuff, and notation staff showing like this
rhythm is the same, this melody is the same, but
there's none of that. And the dissenting opinion, Adam Neely
actually said that because he thinks it's because a musicologists
might not even want to deal with this, doesn't even
think it's worthy enough to go to bat. That's just
a rumor. But yeah, it's in contrast to a lot
(07:38):
of different lawsuits like Normandy and Sam Smith are actually
getting suited currently for dancing with a stranger and that
lawsuit was eighty pages. So yeah, it's strange on that front.
It's coming out of nowhere. The song Lived Your Life
came out in tween do a Leap a song came
out in so this is to you know, two years later,
really after the prominence of that song, even though do
(08:00):
us still prominently performing and touring that uh. And the
only thing in the lawsuit really they said was quote
highly unlikely that Levitating was created independently. That was like there,
you know, pointing fingers moment in the lawsuit. There wasn't
like this is the same. That was it. It's only
five pages. You can't really do much. So I thought
(08:20):
it'd be fun. Is what I'm gonna do. In of
preface this is I'm gonna play a little of Levitating,
and then i'm gonna play a little of the Live
Your Life song, which I'm gonna go on Mike and
say I'm claiming fair use on this. We're just gonna
go I've seen a lot of other shows do this too,
but I'm claiming fair use on this specifically because I
would like to teach you guys about it. I'm only
gonna play a snip bit of it, just to be careful.
(08:42):
So if this has gone like the sound of that,
I guess we're just gonna, I don't know, hum the
song afterwards or something. You know, you'll hear my voice instead,
um or yeah, Joe will do one, I will do
the other. And so first song up here is du
leap As Levitating, which is being sued by Live Your Life,
(09:02):
and that came out in and it will be right now,
I got you come come alright. Cool? That was Levitating
(09:29):
by Dualipa. And then the song that is causing this
lawsuit is Live your Life by Article sound System and
that is going to play right here. Okay, cool, So
(10:00):
just to give you a vibe if you weren't up
to speed about it. So they sound very similar, as
you probably noted. I mean, this is the thing that
I know people who are really related to music are like,
once they learn about this lawsuit, they're like, wow, this
sounds similar. Um. They are actually in the same key.
They almost have the same chord progression, except do As
(10:21):
resolves back to the tonic the actual key that it's
in at the end instead of going staying in the
same chord, So it's a four chord progression. So that
helps any of my music people out there. Also, some
people are pointing out the rhyme scheme of the song
is very similar with them using the word night in
both things, and like the rhyming of pattern with the
(10:42):
rhyme scheme is very similar. I can't really I'm not
a poet, so I can't really break that one down
for you. But yeah, it's interesting because first off, this band,
I'm sure some of you are like, who is this band?
Are they a nothing band? Like I never heard of
this band? Well, this band kind of has like this
weird I want to say, like proving ground where it's
(11:07):
almost like some people are like, no, they're a real band.
Some of them are like no, they're like a little band.
And the reason it's going to be important later is
because they're going to try to argue in court that
obviously they copied the song, so they want to prove
that their song isn't enough prominence or dare I say it,
maybe somebody actually listened to their song live Your Life
and that they're gonna say in court they copied it.
(11:28):
So how big is this band? They were number two
on the Reggae chart for the EP Smoke and Mirrors,
which Live Your Life is from in and I found
this on the Billboard Charts search. I did find it,
so I believe it's correct. But for some reason I
saw just what a misinformation where they're like, I don't
think this is real or whatever, and I'm like that
(11:49):
I found it, so it's a real thing. If you've
heard any misinformation about that, which is going to be
important because, like I said, they're going to argue that
this is in the public sphere enough. It's an number
two songs on the reggae charts, so they're gonna say
it was actually possible, more likely possible than us just
putting this out into the big blue ether that is
the Internet and hoping you listen to it. No, this
(12:11):
is a number two song. You might have actually listened
to the I've decided and that the matrix T Yeah,
it's just one since zero is going up and down.
It's blue green. I've never seen a red Internet in
a movie anyway. Moving on, so a lot of people
are very divided about again, the actual prominence of this song.
(12:35):
It is difficult to find this song. I will say
that the only things I've found, which Adam Neeley actually
pointed out too, was that there's a SoundCloud link to
it and a YouTube video that I've personally listened to,
but it wasn't uploaded by the band. It was like
someone uploaded it from Yeah, somebody else did it. It
wasn't like they were facilitating it. And in the lawsuit
(12:56):
they claim you can basically find it everywhere like Spotify,
Amazon and all the usual suspects, so that that's really strange. Also,
Adam points out that the CD has been out of
stock for a long time and on Spotify all of
its great out so it's like not there anymore. And
I haven't really seen anyone like find some digging that
(13:17):
it was like recently taken down or anything like that.
So yeah, it's really debatable how much in the front
this was. So it was like physically possible for them
to have listened to Live Your Life, But it's in
this weird middle ground of argument enough I think to
go to trial about to be like you might have
(13:38):
actually heard this song, even though both sides have a
pretty good argument on whether they could have actually heard
this song. Um. Another weird theory I saw is that
this van articles Archid Trick sound System also released an
album as of February first, leading the theories that this
(13:59):
was to promote the new album, which I was like,
that's a little of a stretch because it costs a
lot of money. They get a lawyer, and you can't
really like time a lawsuit as efficient as efficiently as
you think. You know, there's a lot of prep work
to that and stuff. But it is a little coincidental, coincidental.
They've kind of, you know, been off the radar a
(14:20):
little bit when it comes to release schedule, and then
all of a sudden, it seems like, in my opinion,
they were like, Okay, you know, we're really coming back
into this thing. We're trying to be a big band. Well,
let's get right. But it's like, let's get all our
ducks in a row, and one of our ducks is
making an album and one of it is talking to
(14:43):
So the worst part for do Ah that I've personally found,
which I haven't seen a lot of people talk about,
is that the band has a certified copyright for the
actual song from the United States Copyright Office. If you
don't know that much about copyright, Basically, there's a short
dirty copyright is what I'll call it. Which is where
you put it into a fixed medium, so like you
(15:05):
write out a song or you record a song. Therefore
you get a you know, quick and dirty. Nobody says
that you have a copyright, but we just all assume, hey,
this is yours because you created it. But it's hard
to prove. It's hard to prove. And I mean you
can go back and be like, we had the recording.
But this is kind of the issue with copyright is
(15:25):
that people, multiple people if they were there, can be like, well,
maybe I wrote more of the song. Maybe I've wrote
more of the song. So to cover that situation, you
can certify your copyright and get like literally a copyright
number from the copyright office, and that says, hey, this
is our song, this is who made it, it's all here.
This means we own it for sure, there's nothing in
(15:46):
the air. This is actually the copyright. And then someone
from the copyright office looks at that application and they
approve it. And the reason why I'm bringing this up
is that it's important because it shows that they were
one willing to try to protect this song that they
made by having, you know, the power that a copyright
brings you, which is the ability to go against other
(16:07):
songs and go, hey, this is our actual song all
of this case. And also it shows that they have
precedent over Duelipa if it somehow got proved, because it's like, hey,
we certify our copyright three years before you did. Yeah,
so that's why it's important. Um, And what I've seen
(16:28):
so far from reactions, which I'll go into now, because
that was kind of the quick facts of that is
very mixed. Like you're saying, I mean, I know you've
seen like all these people that are like, no, this
song is really similar, they should be sued. I've seen both.
I've seen every argument in the book, Like I've seen
the conspiracy album theory one all the way to what
(16:48):
are what are some of you seen? I'm sure you've
seen some Joe like people are just talking about this
like crazy, Yeah, I mean for sure. I mean it's
all over TikTok, right everybody. It's it's kind of hey,
I got a phone, I'm gonna be right exactly. But
like it's it's kind of that that feeling where it
is very left or right, like there really isn't much
(17:10):
middle ground of like well maybe there's like some sort
of kind of midway here, people either think do stole
the song or she didn't is kind of the public
opinion factor, but realistically it's probably somewhere in between. Yeah. Absolutely. Um.
I also think like it is a bit uh concerning
(17:32):
that we can't really access the song that supposedly got
ripped off. Yeah, and that that's going to be an
argument in chord for sure. Is like you you think
we stole your song, but we can barely find and
and that is like something that people have been talking about,
um in a lot of forums and stuff, and I
think it is something that as as a um as
(17:54):
a legal strategy, I don't think it really helps to
take the song down. I don't. I don't. That's the
thing is like, that's what nobody knows, is like, was
this always was? Again? The only thing I've seen is
the lawsuit itself says this was available everywhere, and then
we've seen, you know, it be on Spotify and great out,
(18:15):
which means like you can't play it or do anything
like that, and the CD is on there, but it's
just weird. It seems like it went out of print
or something. So like my theory right now is like
the band was like Okay, we got life stuff to
deal with, or we're going to back away from the band,
and then they're like, let's come together, let's make this
new album and guys, yeah, and so like that's what
(18:38):
I think. So yeah, let's here's some of the bigger
reactions I've seen is like I mentioned Adam Neely a
couple of times. He also notes that Outcasts Rose Rosa
Parks is very similar as well, which I've seen people
and like bring up and even do a Lapa herself
says she was influenced by Outcast for this album, which
(19:01):
we can get into a little later. But I do
think it's a little different because of the way of
the formatting of the songs, just because the Outcast song
doesn't seem to have like that part, specifically, the levitating
chorus like line be the centerpiece of the song and
the live your life song and Levitating seem to have
that you all Night be like the main part of
(19:22):
their song as opposed to Outcast just feels like a
little part of the end. But that's where it gets
difficult and this and I kind of want to bring
this up before I go any further. Unlike a lot
of copyright cases. Usually, from what I've seen, there's a
lot of people that go, why is this artist getting sued?
There's kind of like this tangential I kind of see
(19:45):
that these songs are similar. And then it usually takes
like a musicologist to come in and go, this is
why it sounds similar. We need someone with expertise. But
what's interesting here, which I think is going to make
this a landmark case, is that it's almost the opposite
of that relationship. A lot of the general public is going,
these songs are so similar. They're so similar, I can't
(20:07):
even tell them. I can barely tell them apart, like
and all that kind of stuff. And then a musicologist
now and a lot of people I've seen the music
community are now going, actually, I'm gonna tell you why
this is different. And it seems like, you know, now
we have this vocal majority that's saying these songs are
too close, and then we have a minority that's a
(20:28):
dissenting opinion, as opposed to most of these frivolous lawsuits
that I've seen before, where it's a lot of the
general public goes, I don't get it, how are these
songs similar? And then a musicologist or the music community
has to go. Actually, they're very similar, and that's gonna
be really interesting from a legal sense, because there's gonna
be a lot of pressure on this from the public,
(20:48):
unlike a lot of these other cases towards dualipa, like
actually the person getting sued, unlike the other ones where
it was like, hey, you should stop suing my favorite
artist because I don't understand why these are similar. But yeah,
it's kind of a mess. But wait, like a sad
Billy May's legal Billy Mays, there's more. Um Do is
(21:12):
also being sued by two other songwriters for two songs
they penned, which are called the Timeless names of Wiggle
and Jiggle all Night and Don Diablo, which is from
nine and they claim that instead of the chorus you
know the you all Night, they are going after the
(21:35):
descending lines in the verses are very similar. You know,
if you want to run away with me, I know
a galaxy, you know that kind of descending line, because
both of their songs have that. So it's admittedly there
there's are a little weaker because their songs are also
kind of hard to find. But from what I've seen,
Don Dieblo actually has a strong following. I guess someone
(21:57):
who's more of an expert in Spaniard pop music could
tell me. But has fourteen million views on YouTube, so
it must have some falling, but I can't really find
it on streaming services easily. But the point is is
it seems that this first lawsuit is opening up other
lawsuits and people going we can actually take a chance here.
And at the end of the day, there seems to
(22:18):
be a lot of I've kind of gone with a
lot of the dissenting opinion from Adam Neely where I've said, like, oh,
this is why they're different, and there's other songs that
have used it, But like, I'm going to go to
the affirming opinion real quick. For our last thing before
we go to general discussion, is Rick Botto, who's a
music YouTuber, brought up that you know, if these bands
are being copied and they feel like they're sincerely being copied,
(22:39):
it could be a situation where you know, there's a
chance that they that one of the songwriters from Duliba
heard this and was like, either maliciously or not, was like, hey, duo,
let's song write this together and do this. And Rick
brings up the point that finding a lawyer to take
on these cases is very difficult because a lot of
(23:01):
lawyers don't want to do it. So there could be
a situation where this band sincerely might have had their
song copied and they just haven't been able to get
a lawyer of this entire time. But I'll go back
to the sending before we go. Adam Neely encounters that
this might be due to how vague the connection of
the two songs actually is, Like no lawyer wanted to
(23:22):
take the case because it's a bad case. Well, yeah,
I mean it's it's pretty difficult, especially like you know,
I don't think anybody's really paying attention to the reggae charts.
You know, there's just something. And that's the worst thing
about all of this for Dual Lapo specifically because again
they just foun out the lawsuit. They haven't gone to
trial or anything yet. Is that a lot of these
(23:43):
questions are arguable, which means that they need to get
answers for it, which means we need to go to
trial or worse to a leap but might cutter losses
and go I'm going to give you a settlement right now.
At that point, I feel like public pay and would
side with the band because it's like an affirmation. Yeah exactly.
(24:05):
I actually did see a lot of people um talking
about how she she should pull a like a um
Olivia Rodrigo and like interpolation. Yeah, so that and like
I'm partnering with them and giving them song credits. So yeah,
I mean we've seen that with a notable band that
tried to steal another lady's name called Lady A and
(24:28):
that we'll see how that worked out. But what I'm
saying with that is that could be a thing of compensation,
Like if she if they wanted to go for it
and she was like, hey, I'll you know, part of
my compensation to you is, uh, maybe instead of you
getting a full copyright, here, we're gonna give you you know,
you're gonna be the opener of our tour. That's gonna
(24:51):
be great for your band, right, and then's gonna let
them open for her tour. But like with that, that's
what I'm saying is like we could do that, Like
there's more forms of compensation and then just like hey,
I'm gonna give you a songwriting credit for the rest
of your life. Can you imagine like getting sued by
somebody and then getting on their tour, like getting them
on your tour. The interesting part of it is like
(25:14):
I don't know, we don't we don't really know. What
do we leave a response to this year? Is yet.
The thing about all of these copyright lawsuits, and I've
talked to a couple of people about it, is because
it's trying to make anything with the law and music
and media and art is taking subjective and making it
objective because there has to be a line crossed somewhere.
(25:36):
A song has to be able to be owned by someone,
because to have ownership of something can give it value.
So that's why the entire industry works. Songwriters write songs,
they say they get to own it parts of you know,
maybe make a deal with you know, their publishing agent, whatever.
But somebody gets to own it, monetize it. And that's
what keeps the wheels going, is that that ownership thing.
(25:59):
But you know, on the philosophical side about music and
all this kind of stuff, ownership and it's weird to
be like I own this song, so like anything close
to it no days, you know, Like, but that that's
the weird part about it, And that's kind of At
the end of the day, the job of the copyright
office and the legal system is to figure out where
(26:21):
that line is between subjective and objective, and it's it's
super strange to try to draw it. And I think
a lot of people have been going towards this is
getting insane. You guys are being way way too lenient
when it comes to copyrights. And all these people who
(26:43):
had no chance, never heard these songs, didn't know about it,
are getting sued for stuff that they didn't do, you
know what I mean. Like, at the end of the day,
where's the line? How much of music can you own?
You know what I mean? And like I think people
understand it's like if you directly copy a song, like
if I took dual Leap with levitating, put it on
(27:04):
flash drive and sold it. That makes sense. But like
when you start, you know, it's like that analogy where
if you take a plank off of a ship over
time and you replace the whole ship with a different,
you know, set of wood, is it a new ship?
Like that's kind of what it is. Is Like you're
just sitting there and you're like, where is the line?
(27:25):
Where where are we legally going to say this is
different now, and it's weird because it's well, it's hard
feeling popular, Yeah, it's feeling. And then popular music in
general is it's sounds that are popular, right, Like if
you just listen to the top forty like airplay, it's
going to sound identical sometimes like a lot of those cars. Yeah, exactly,
(27:50):
And so it's it is. It is very difficult, especially
like when the industry is just kind of like fun
it just you know, take inspiration from places. I do
feel like there is a lot of um idea stealing
that people don't ever get called out for because they
(28:10):
are huge artists and they just never It just feels
like a system where no one really you know, justly
wins exactly it it never wins. And like, to be honest,
like even if these people win the lawsuit, at the
end of the day, they're not going to be like
as big as Dualiva. You know. It's something that like
when you have a song take off, it's that song
(28:32):
has a life of its own at that point. It's
not it's not like you can just uh increase your
own I guess popularity or success. If you're suing someone
for that song, you know, what I mean that interesting
is like, yeah, I completely actually do. Alipa said something
(28:54):
close to that because I put on our Instagram about
I was listening to the song Exploder episode about Levitating,
which is basically a podcast. It's a great podcast, but
it's about explaining how songs occur and how they're created,
and there was one about levitating, and she actually brought
up that same point where she at the end of
the episode start talking and she's like, I don't feel
(29:16):
like this is my song anymore. I feel like the
fans owned this song through their experience and what they know,
and when they stream it, like it's not my song anymore. Yeah, exactly,
because it's so when when a song becomes so massive
like that, it's like it's it's in pop culture history
at that point. Yeah, it's so weird that line of subjective,
(29:39):
like subjective versus objective. And then also you know that
collaborative nature of music, but also that not to collaborative.
You know you're gonna get sued, but like that's the
whole thing, and this is people in this industry man, right,
this is like one of the biggest lawsuits I've seen
a while. That doesn't feel super frivolous, and I'm interested
(30:03):
to follow it, and uh, like this might be as
big as the Blurred Lines Marvin Gay case, which was
if you guys don't know astronomical, which copyright music works.
And that's the thing is, like all these different mediums
have their own different rules, and it's weird because some
of it is illegal and then some of it is
(30:24):
just kind of this. Okay, we understand that this amount
of copying kind of happens, like this amount of collaboration
just happens. There's influence, you know what I mean. But
where that line draws is up to the law and
up to the copyright office, and what they determine determines
all the precedent for everything, and I'll be interested to
see what happens. I would also shout out that song
(30:45):
exploit Or episode because it was interesting to see how
it was formed because the producer apparently like brought the
core like the he bought a keyboard, played literally levitating
for the first time on the keyboard he bought, and
was like, this is the song and brought it to
the set and she sang over it with like a
couple other songwriters. Is the episode, but It's like one
(31:06):
of those things where I'm like, what if it is
crazy and they could figure out it was like actually
he was. I believe his name is cause like what
if they could prove that he listened to the song somehow,
Like imagine if they subpoenaed his like Spotify. Yeah, literally,
I'm not even joking, Like if they were like we
want causes, Spotify shuffles all your iPod classics or Spotify is.
(31:32):
And then there's another producer named Stuart Price who does
a lot of the stuff that honestly, it felt like
he made the song Closer to Live Your Life inadvertently
if he did. But at the end of the day,
he's using a lot of tropes that seventies disco music uses,
that reggae uses, and that between influence and you can
just trace it back and back and back, and it
is difficult, um to kind of set the line. Um.
(31:55):
Do you think that these lawsuits are important though, because
of you know how pop music it sounds all the same.
Don't you think we need something in order to make
artists accountable to create new things instead of just recycling
the work. Yeah, funny enough, you know what that is.
It's called copyright. That's the reason why that exists is
(32:18):
because they thought you have an individual mark for this
song can use for it. At the end of the day,
this is kind of doing its job, even if it's
like we don't really know if if to uh stole
the song. Like at the end of the day, this
is not supposed to be easy. These kind of decisions
are not This is extremely difficult. But where you land them,
(32:42):
you know, is this a subjective choice versus an objective
choice to be like a song. That's what is the
job of the law in the copyright office. And honestly,
then moving between the two things is the most important thing,
is trying to strike a balance between those two things.
Are we being too lenion or are we not? And
(33:03):
I asked everybody on Instagram, which I do a poll
on there, what they thought about it. It's also on
Twitter and the rest of the week if you want
to vote for it. And basically what I said was,
do you think there are too many copyright lawsuits today?
Shortened sweet and seventy of you said yes, and thirty
of you of you said no? And I think that's
(33:23):
kind of what I've seen is like a lot of
people are like, yeah, but I don't know how much.
There's this huge hodgepodge of how much you know about music,
how much you don't know about music, what you think
is subjective, what you think is copying, what you think
is you know, legally suitable. That kind of stuff is
(33:43):
all up in the air and its personal preference. And
the worst part about the law is that it's trying
to make a lot of personal preferences, because music, you know,
unlike a lot of crimes, is a very personal thing
into something that can be objective and we can use
later on, which is what causes precedent. So this is
gonna be a huge case. I think it's gonna be
(34:05):
going on for a while. I think it's gonna go
to trial. The only way is that if do what
comes with a very lucrative settlement of some kind. I'm
interested to see what she does. Her career has been
very interesting from legally because she was sued by the paparazzi,
which we covered about ten episodes ago, and recently she
fired her management and has her dad as her manager. Now,
(34:26):
whose experience, believe it or not, in like high not
in music. But I tried to add him on LinkedIn
funny enough because I was like, no one's gonna add
to its dad. Maybe they'll add me back, and uh yeah,
So I'm interested to see and I almost wonder. I'm like,
what if they heard about this lawsuit down the pipeline,
because I feel like it would totally be If I
was the band, I'd be like, let's let's send something
(34:47):
to do with first, Let's see if she'll give us
the money. We'll be like, we won't go big with this,
just give us like, you know, this amount of money,
and like some other stuff. And then like what if
her management was like, hey, you're getting sued and like
on top of all the other ship, maybe the that
they didn't like, they were like, I'm done with you,
You're fired. Can you imagine how crazy of a story
that would be. That would be pretty bad shut So,
(35:08):
like there's just a lot of levels going. Maybe maybe
we should get Daddy do a on the I would
love if he wants to come on. That'd be great. Um,
I'm gonna show him the new biz tape theme song
that goes biz tape things, music, all media everything. She'll
be like, He'll be like, I love that song. Where
did you get that song from sounds like a reggae song.
(35:29):
Sounds like a number two charting reggae song. Wow, that's crazy.
Well going on, there's a lot of things we talked
about on this podcast. We go from I don't know,
ualipa getting sued to catalogs getting bought out. Yeah, and
I feel like we've talked about how these catalogs have
(35:51):
been by bought these huge, substantial works um for a
lot of fucking money. Right on, it's a lot and
funny enough, this is uh one of the articles that
was in the newsletter last week, and I decided to
bump it up to main Joe Baby. It was just
I was reading more well, I was reading more about it,
(36:14):
and I was like, this is too important not to
bring to our main platform. And Joe was, you know,
brought it here, and I was like, you know, I
covered this on the newsletter. But I'm really glad because
it's just been It's crazy to think about because I
think a lot of people think that these green pastures
of selling multimillion dollar catalogs will continue forever. Yeah, exactly,
because I mean we've just seen we've seem so many artists,
(36:37):
um like get tons of money out of it. So
going off of like why catalogs are important, right and
the sale of these have been so important is you
got to look two years ago when the pandemic was
we were in the throes of it. Literally there was
no income coming into the music industry at one point,
(36:59):
you know, I mean about you could argue you know, sinc.
And then mechanical royalties, but that was recorded, but it
was still very low. It was about Yeah, that was
about it. And so a lot of these publishing companies
had to figure out, well, ship, what do we do
for these quarters because we're not bringing in enough money?
And what do we do calling it's an investment what year?
(37:23):
That's right, it's an investment year. Baby. When your company
is going in the star, what do you do? You
buy more ships? Kind I was afraid to answer that question,
but yeah, so Dan Weissman and Adam since uh San
Savory Adam San Savory from Billboard dive into how like
(37:45):
this is going to change a lot, right, because there
was this trend of like all these companies buying and
um hopefully potentially selling them down the road years later.
But according to them, rising inflation and interest rates are
raceome to catalog buyers and sellers, as payouts later down
the line may not pack the same punch as they
(38:07):
would have before. Now, to think about inflation, you must
first know like how interest rates and bonds interact with
each other, as well as like what they do. So,
according to investor dot gov quote, a bond is a
debt security similar to an IOU. There will be a
test at the end. Yeah, yeah, this is you're all
(38:27):
getting tested. But borrows, thank you, thank you. Barrows issue
bonds to raise money from investors willing to lend them
money for a certain amount of time. And when you
buy a bond, you are lending to the issuer, which
may be a government like company or corporation. In return,
(38:48):
the issuer promises to pay you a specified rate of
interest during the life of the bond and to repay
the principle, which is like the face of value. It's
like what you paid up front. So in that bay
me again. So we got you get the bond, You
get the bond. The bond is you're you're getting it
at a fixed rate, right, and if the rate changes
(39:14):
over time, it's gonna chess up how much the bonds
worth ly, So you're you're gonna need to you know,
if you're taking this bond maybe to buy a multimillion
dollar catalog, and the rate increases, you're not going to
make as much money as you would if you bought
the bond earlier when it was interest rate exactly, and
with like how crazy inflation has been this past year. Um,
(39:39):
Like a lot of companies are like their investments in
these they're kind of just like scraping the surface of
what they can get on a return back. So a
lot of companies are actually kind of looking at other
more like sustainable ways of making money at this point,
because this is kind of it's a gamble, right, Like,
you don't know how much these this catalogs are gonna
(39:59):
be worthy idea too, and uh, we don't know really
the effectiveness of buying some of these catalogs yet. I mean,
the idea of buying an entire catalog and not just
being a giant record label and being like we only
facilitate the catalog is a very new idea. So even
the model itself is kind of hazy. So you would
like that to be as secure as possible if you're
(40:20):
going into you know, unsure waters, so they break down
kind of what you look for when you're selling a catalog, right,
or buying a catalog. So quote, let's assume you're selling
your catalog for a multiple of thirteen times it's net
publishers share, which is essentially it's annual gross profit. So
(40:43):
the effective coupon is a hundred divided by thirteen, which
equals seven point six nine percent. As interest rates rise,
a bond with a lower coupon rate will generally experience
a greater decrease in value than one with a higher
coupon rate. So a catalog that sells for a multitude
(41:04):
of thirteen will experience a greater decrease in value than
one that sells for a multiple of ten, because the
buyer is assigning greater value to future cash flows. So
it seems like the trend right is to is to
turn those thirteens into tens, right, And that seems to
be what's happening, And I think more and more buyers
(41:27):
are are kind of taking advantage of that, but they're
also hesitant of like where they're gonna be able to
use this asset in the future, because, like, like we've
been saying, it's gambling, you're gambling. There's a very new
part of the music industry. And and also to like
if anybody is confused and why this sounds like you're
(41:49):
listening to like a finance podcast. Yeah, exactly, it's because
this is probably like one of the more financial heavy
aspects of the music industry because it is like it's
like stocks, you're buying and trading stocks. Yeah, at the
end of the day, this is the same kind of
rhetoric that people will use when they buy a company
(42:10):
or anything like that. This is all about r o I, baby,
return on investment. These are not you know, these people
aren't looking for the love of music. They're looking to
make their investment back. So that's why all these numbers
are kind of important. But at the end of the day,
like just saying, it's like if it costs more money
in the end to get the money to buy this catalog,
(42:31):
because you gotta get a you know, higher inflation rate,
you gotta higher inflation rate, you got a higher rate
of the bond itself. And then we don't even know
if this is going to work out well completely in
the end. We just assume we have some estimations. So yeah,
that's that's why it is, so this is already an
unsecured region to go down. But then when you add
(42:51):
even more unsecurity of you know, making that margin even smaller,
you're less likely to see buyers of these giant catalogs exactly. So,
Inflation also affects sales because it reduces the value of
future royalty payments. And the higher the multiple, the more
pronounced the inflation effect, because more and more payments are
required for the buyer to like make the whole thing back,
(43:14):
if that makes sense. So most catalog purchases worth their
salt use floating or adjustable interest rates, which increase costs
to the borrower as it adjusts depending on the market increases.
So if there's more inflation, your your payments is going
to increase supposedly, right to match that inflation mark. But
(43:35):
you really do have to have like a pretty good
amount of cred I feel like before you're able to
actually get that into your I'm not walking into Bank
of America being like, can I have three million dollars
for like and make it a float account place like
I'd like it float, So like it's gonna be three
million dollars any time any right, if intends you know,
(43:59):
like we're going through the inflation ever right now. So
it would be like if I got one now and
be like, yeah, and inflation gets way worse than a month,
I still only owe you three d million dollars. You
can't be like you owe me three ten million dollars. Nope,
that's all. I still only owe you three hundred dollars dollars. So,
according to the buyers are aware that seven point six
nine return barely beat out inflation last year, which was
(44:23):
seven percent, which according to them, doesn't even figure in
capital So quote when rats, when rats? When rats? Quote
when rates rise and inflation settles, institutional investors will look
elsewhere for return. But that's also true in the restaurant industry.
When rats rise and inflation settles, they will look for
(44:44):
another restaurant. Yeah, exactly, don't let the rats rise. People
don't let them rise. But yeah, so breaking it back
down because I know that's a lot to digest. It
is very very Uh. I don't know, I feel like
a crypto. What's explain it to me? Like I'm two
years old, what's like when basically pandemic happened? No money,
(45:07):
need to find money? Sell catalog, buy catalog to sell
in future. Oh fuck, money is decreasing in value. No
more buying catalog now. We need need to make money now.
So yeah, I mean at the end of the day,
people people aren't looking for Let's see, this was a
(45:29):
point six nine percent return basically, right, and it might
be twenty years from now, you know. But like I said,
this is a risky industry in the first place because
we haven't really seen you know, these literal hedge funds
by these giant catalogs um that before. I mean, this
(45:52):
is what would happen. It would be like Chess Records,
Well you are going out of business, so you're gonna
sell your whole catalog to this other record company. But
this is a huge thing. And why you see these
four million, five million dollar payoffs, it's because these head
funds just go, all right, we'll pay it. We think
it's gonna be worth more money in the future. Since
we got digital technology, you can always stream it, you
(46:13):
can get it anywhere, and we will make sure it's
up there. And people love Bob Dylan, people love Fleetwood Mac,
people love Bruce Springsteen, so people will always listen to it.
We hope, we hope to God, they listen to it,
and then this happens where it's like, guess what, You're
gonna make way less money for sure, and then you're
(46:34):
going into a rocky thing for sure. Uh, it's gonna
make people hesitant. And that's the interesting part. We talked
about it last week with Zack Queen a little bit too,
is like they're kind of running out of catalogs. There
was kind of like a night big gold rush of
all these other catalogs when this just kind of became
a model that people thought could work to buy catalogs,
(46:56):
like a hedge fund buy a catalog. And now we're
even going into country music to buy catalogs. So that's
also another thing that that's what you need to stop. Stop,
you need to cease, and you need to you need
to flood it. Right. Well, I'm just saying this is
more of like we were going into catalogs that for
for sure, like we're gonna make this money back and
(47:18):
then when we're going to catch we don't know. I'm
gonna assume probably we will, but yeah, it's it's uh
chicken waters ahead. So sorry, six million dollar payout, you
are not coming to your favorite We'll Colin speaking of gaming,
(47:39):
how about that? Speaking of payouts, um, Epic Games is
acquiring band Camp, which if you don't this is a
weird headline, but some of you may not be initiated
to this is that if you don't know band Camp,
they're one of the most popular artists pay out heavy
streaming services there is, and you can id music on there.
(48:00):
You can stream it, but the reason why artists love
it is because it's free to upload. They take ten
to fift as they're cut, which is extremely low, and
they have huge quick payouts of twenty four to forty
eight hours directly to pay Pal accounts, and many times
they wave their promotional like they have promotional events where
(48:24):
they just waive the fee completely so you've got a
percent of the money. So for a lot of like
indie artists and artists that aren't as traditional, but I
have loyal fans, this site is a really good place
to make money and they're very fan friendly. If you
don't know Epic Games, they aren't that and they're kind
of the polar opposite also Fortnite. Anyway, Epic will be
(48:49):
acquiring band Camp for an undisclosed amount, but claims band
Camp will operate standalone with its curren CEO and co
founder Ethan Diamond, And I just got a brain last here. Okay,
I think I know why Epic Game Spot. If you
say put music to put music in Fortnite, baby, that's
the whole reason. That's what the meme was. So we're
(49:12):
going to continue. Every band camp artist is going to
be in Fortnite. Now, guys, you will get your indie grunge.
You get a Fortnite. You get a Fortnite Welcome Shoe
Gaze performer into Fortnite. You can play as him, watch
him play a dissonant note for twenty five minutes. Yeah, anyway,
(49:33):
So yeah, that's the meme is that everybody's like, why
do they want all these underground bands and fore right
it's the indie crowd will really respect Fortnite. Knowledge is
going to be out there doing a DJ set well everybody.
So yeah, the point is that it's strange. Um. According
to Epic, they want band Camp to expand internationally and
(49:57):
they're gonna help them doing it with their increased backing.
Their quote to build on other fronts, including its album pages,
mobile apps, merchandise tools, payments, systems, search, and discovery features,
as well as its vinyl and live streaming services. UH
ceo Ethan Diamond wrote on band Camp being acquired, quote,
We've always felt that doing so would only be exciting
(50:19):
if they strongly believed in our mission, were aligned with
our values, and not only wanted to see bandcap continue,
but also wanted to provide the resources to bring a
lot more benefits to artists, labels, and fans who use
the site. Epic Games, the CEO wrote, ticked all of
(50:41):
those boxes, So like, did they like hold your hand
with the pen in your Google Epic Games book. Another
of the memes, this is a strange mixture of brands,
super first strange. If you know, the reason most people
(51:02):
know about Epic is Fortnite. But the reason why Epic
is kind of strange in this is because they've had
this very adversarial coming into the market of almost everything
they've gone into. When they first got Fortnite on Apple,
for instance, they when we've got it on the show,
they went head to head with Apple and going we're
not gonna pay your thirty merchant fee you have for
(51:25):
the store when people buy Fortnite skins. And so what
they did was is they went, so we're just gonna
put our own store in the game that just circumnavigates Apple,
and then Apple was like fuck you, and literally was
like was and then Epic was like, well, you can
do what we want. We're standing up for the little guys.
(51:45):
And then they've gotten a huge lawsuit that's still going.
Epic also has a whole thing with Steam, which is
the other provider of huge amounts of games, where they
were basically like Steams too grubby with their money, their
percentage they're so high. So Epic Games is gonna come
save the little man and we're going to have a
(52:07):
store that's way less of a percentage his voice. Remember
when we make Gears of War back in the day. Anyway,
So yeah, it's really weird because they come into these
like situations where they're like before they started as a
game developer, then they became an online video game store,
(52:28):
very adversarial against Team. Then they went onto iOS Games,
and we're very adversarial against Apple. So I'm like, what
are you doing with band Camp? Are you just gonna
come in here and be like fuck you Apple Music?
Where the cool guys you know, like I don't know,
like why is getting hit, and that's what I imagine
they're just that's how that's how you talk when your
(52:51):
Epic games, you just keep getting you raised the stakes
voice in profit, in you know, gate keeping, and also
in pitch. So like, yeah, it's it seems really weird.
And that's why I wanted to bring it in here
because people are losing their minds with that because Epic
Games was coming in to bring Bandcamp kids to Fortnight anyway, Yeah,
(53:14):
it it That's why I'm concerned, Um Diamond statement is
very like, yeah, we've always loved Epic like they're getting like, yeah,
we've always loved Epic Games, you know what I mean. Like,
and that's what I feel like is I was holding
up a gun to Joe's head, but for audio listeners
(53:36):
right once we make it a clip. So yeah, it's
it's a very strange place. I wanted to put it
in here because band Camp historically has been exceedingly friendly
and the only people it's going to get real mean,
the only people I can then, Yeah, the only thing
I can see it going against is it's you know,
(53:59):
customer and the people who upload to the platform. But
hopefully because they claim that they want to keep it separate,
and to be honest with you, I am very excited
about some of this increased funding and everything going on
with this because band Camp, honestly, that's the worst part
about band Camp is the infrastructure for Bandcamp just flatly sucks. Right.
(54:23):
It looks like an old web page. And it's not
their fault. It's because they purposely had a very low
margin and wouldn't take that much money to support the artists.
But that money has to come from somewhere, so they
would save it by not you know, having the flashiest
features and making it easy to you know, designing web
(54:43):
apps and all that kind of stuff. So I'm very excited.
I hope that Epic is un characteristically non adversarial. But
if they're going to be adversarial to like the space
of streaming and stuff, I hope it is like, you
guys should be paying all of these artists money. We're
gonna do that now. So if you come to band Camp,
(55:05):
then get off Spotify an Apple, you know. Like that's
what I like to imagine that they would do if
they're gonna be adversarial, And I hope at the end
of the day it's like, if you know, the big
bad companies want to get into a war and it
just benefits artists. Yeah, like right, you know what I mean, Like,
if you guys want to be like no, our platform
is the best our plan because Epics ready to go
(55:26):
toe to toe. I just don't know if epics adversarial
nature is going to end up being like against the
consumers of the product and the artists or against other
streaming services. I hope it's streaming services because I've talked
about multiple times how they need to up their stuff. Man.
Now I'm just thinking about other voices for other streams.
(55:47):
I like to imagine it would be like so that's
that's that. I imagine Spotify is like a regular dude.
It's like, Hi, I'm Spotify, how are you? And then
like Apple Music would be like really because Apple Music
because it's really like smooth, just Tim You think it's
Tim Cook? Yeah, yeah, I think it's just Tim Cook,
just like doing a presentation. I guys, we're bringing you
(56:11):
the greatest thing ever to Apple Corporation, and that's music.
We invented music, guys. And then everybody's like who He's like,
pay me money, titles real low. It would be like
(56:33):
that's all it is. This is the best ship you've
ever seen, the best deal. And it's like, Melanie, Man,
it's not the best deal. It's like, shut up, there's
no other string platform that exists. It's just title Like damn,
you're right man. Anyway, Joe, what did you listen to
this week? That crazy nonsense of her voices? Well, I've actually,
(56:57):
you know, I was in a music ren for a
long time, but I really kind of came out of
it on top. I feel like, uh, and I'm I'm
super stoked. I found this artist on TikTok um and
it was just to split second TikTok It wasn't even
that like viral. But his name is Sam Glittery. Uh.
Sam s a M G E L l A I
(57:18):
t r Y And he has an amazing UM single
called Gullible as well as a EP called four and
um it's great. I mean, his production on is pretty amazing.
His vocal on Gullible especially is pretty great. He used
to be, I think, just a producer. He's kind of
(57:39):
like Jimmy E. Stack. Have you ever listened to him?
So he's like I would say, imagine like like like
andy producer meets hip hop producer and like that's kind
of the vibe, if that makes sense. Leaning heavily towards
the indie side, I guess, but like very like heavy
(58:00):
and like electronica stuff that's like more modern and updated. Um.
And and like a lot of dance music which is
really fun. Um. Also, one of my favorite artists, Nilo
for Yanna Yanya, came out with an album Painless Um,
which is amazing. It's a no skip album. You have
(58:23):
to listen to every single track. I'm commanding you two
at this very moment. And also I listened to Third
Eye Blind, Third Eye Blind, I just I was on
a road trip and I was like, you know what,
I never really gave this album a chance, and I
am surprised with how much I like this album now.
(58:44):
It was very instrumental, it's insane, Like I I especially
graduate that song is amazing. The fucking breakdown, it's crazy,
it's awesome. Check it out. UM, let's see, I've been listening.
I was listening to Jeez, which not to be confused
with Easy, is a rapper out of Atlanta that I
(59:04):
remember growing up. I was listening to the radio before
phone finally got a phone by the way into that
saga and uh I was listening to it. I was like, damn,
this song is good, but I'm like, oh my god,
it goes hard. The name of the album and I
recommend is Young Jeez Presents U S D A Cold
Summer the authorized mix tape. It's amazing. Um, I have
(59:25):
another playlist I'm cooking up. I have like five of
them that I have Joe seen some of them. They
all have ridiculous names. They're all like that. But one
of them has to deal with corporate and so one
of the first songs that came into my mind I
was listening to is called Corporate Thuggan on that album,
which I fucking love Corporate Thugan C T E and that.
(59:45):
So it sounds but like, uh, it's really it's just
very two thousands rap, where it's just very heavy, hard
down beats the entire time. You know, you could be
blasting this in your car. He is very notable, specifically
Jeez because between him, Gucci Maine, and Uh oh god,
(01:00:06):
who am I missing t I it is debated about
who which of them started trap music? Oh wow, really yes,
Um yeah, they're there. Between the three of them, they said,
T I started trap music. Look, you think it's weird,
but go listen to T I and you'll be like,
this is pretty close to trap music in some way.
(01:00:27):
If you listen to Okay, if you listen to top
Back by T t I, you can hear like the
beginnings of what trap would be, with like the very
heavy high hats and all that kind of stuff where
it's just, you know, very busy compared to regular you
know what we saw before, which was like G funk
rap and all that kind of stuff, and then what
Kanye was bringing out of Chicago and all that kind
(01:00:48):
of stuff. But yeah, that that's mostly my one. And
then I fucking I try. Look, I tried my best
to branch out as much music as I can, but
I was sitting there hating myself. It's like if you
have like a like a suite at home, or like
you're in the you're in the grocery store, right and
(01:01:08):
you're like, I shouldn't buy these fucking orios. You gotta
get you gotta get those orios. So those oreos are
are like what's getting you through the week. Yeah. So
I was listening to Huey Lewis's first album. You know
you have an abusive relationship I do. I hate how
much I like here. I just spies how much I
(01:01:29):
like listen to the News because I try to be cool.
I fucking try to be cool, and then I go, God,
I just listen to Huey Lewis right now album cover
and it's just it's so bad. That was the first
one I think I ever recommended on the show, and
the album covers so bad. Anyway, it's Huey Lewis in
(01:01:50):
the News by Huey Lewis, and it's so I like
the Okay, the back half of this album I don't
really like as much, but the first half is so good.
It just has like all that standard you know, a
b very solid song, kind of put together. But I
really like it. And the worst part is that now
(01:02:12):
I know that when I watch American Psycho, I will
have a very very educated opinion about when he talks
about Huey Lewis, which they were coming up in their
first album, but then they really hit it together with Sports,
which I would actually agree with because now that I've
listened to this album, Hey, Paul, they really didn't come
(01:02:33):
into their own until Sports, which is really true in
a lot of different ways. I mean, you listen to
Mario's bass patterns any but yeah, anyway, so thanks for
listening to this tape. You're all thanks Music Business and
Media Podcast. We sure do appreciate you. So we got
our socials at the biz Tape as well as our
(01:02:54):
newsletter for everything I could not fit in the shows
well was fun, bts behind the show a pole, and
our newest thing playlist. So again, our playlist this week
is freeze Frame Energy. So any song that you think
would be the greatest freeze frame ending to a movie
would fit in that vein doesn't have to actually be
(01:03:14):
in a movie, just something you think would work. You
feel free to message me or email me at the
biz Tape Podcast at gmail dot com. Anyways, guys, again,
thank you so much for your support and we hope
to see you next time.
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