Out Of Context: Big Sean And Charlamagne Tha God

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We checked the mics. Good. Yeah, I do these in
black and white men who focus.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yeah, I like that, Big Sean, my bro like something.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Man, see you in a minute to God, how you feel.
I'm blessed, black and holly favored. Man. You know, I
like to set an intention before I do these conversations.
So my intention for this conversation is for everyone to
get clarity who you are as a man and rapper.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
In twenty twenty five. Man, And I'm excited for this. Then, yeah,
how about you first? And foemost I'm doing pretty well.
It's life has been a lot lately though, I'm not
gonna lie, it's been pretty overwhelming, kind of like stressful,
but definitely, like I said, I cannot complain.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Bro.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Like when you when you think about the grand scheme
of things, we me and you and a lot of
us like are on the blessed spectrum.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Absolutely, we're on the.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Positive side of what's going on in the world, you know,
compared to like people not knowing where they gonna sleep at,
people getting bombed on, you know, losing family members, kids,
you know, people getting executed. Everything that's all of these tragedies, wars, conflict.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
That's going on in the world going on, you know,
in our hometowns.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Every other week I hear about like somebody getting like,
oh this person got killed or this person, you know,
some something. So it's just like I always keep that
in perspective. And you know, an interesting concept that I
was talking to someone the other day is I was like, man,
you know, say, we get this opportunity while we're in

(01:38):
our bodies, only our souls, this is our only time
for us to experience like some type of friction.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
You know what I'm saying. I'm not even trying to
get deep.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
But if you think about it, when we leave our
bodies and this quick blip of a life, we may
not experience pain anymore, might not be depression, anxiety, we
won't be able to feel touched, fuck, eat, sleep, tired.
That may not even none of that may be a factor.
So I was talking with this doctor the other day

(02:07):
who's very spiritual, and she was like, yeah, I mean,
this may be our only time as souls to progress, right,
and to evolve and to feel and to have some friction, right.
So I was like, damn, if that's the case, you know,
when we are feeling this uncomfortable feeling, like anxiety, depression.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
All these things, all these ups and downs we go through.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Like, I wonder how much of a privilege it is
even just to feel that shit. I think that's the point, right,
just to enjoy the current moment period, but you don't
know what's next to a lot of times when we
say enjoy the moment, we're.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Thinking about, you know now, like what we're doing right now,
but no, enjoy this moment of a human experience that
we have.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, you know, because I feel like if you're just
like comfortable, if you're good, if you're just satisfied all
the time, then there's no room for growth, you know.
I always feel like when you're down, when you feel off,
or when you feel like you're in alignment, at least
you have an opportunity to grow from that. And I
feel like that's something to even be proud of recognizing
that instead of just like complacent where you are?

Speaker 1 (03:09):
You know what? I love? I asked you how are
you and gave me an honesty said no, but that's
real because people be like, oh, I'm good.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
You know, in therapy, they taught me to not just
say that. They taught I don't know, like they teach
you to really say how you're doing, you know. So
I mean, like I said, you know, I'm writing my
first book. You know what that's like writing a book.
I'm just basically finished with it, finishing this album still
and just like and still experiencing that new, that feeling
of fatherhood. Even though my son is you know, a

(03:36):
year and eight months, it's like it feels new still.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Oh, we're gonna get through all of that. Let me
ask you, who is Sean Michael Leonard Anderson in twenty
twenty four?

Speaker 3 (03:46):
Man, I'm somebody who bro I'm just trying to figure
out myself who I am sometimes like I have to
take time to reconnect with myself and what I like
because I got so disconnected from that. So in twenty
twenty four, I'm a father. I'm a black man, a
proud black man who understands that they don't understand much.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
And I love anime. You know.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
That's like one of my escapes that I get to
experience is like watch getting into like a new anime
I'm about to dive into. Even Gliens, I did not
routo dragon Balls like one of my favorite Sekira, Demon Slayer,
my hero academia, like, those are the things that even just.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Growing up, you know.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
And when I got into a point of like around
twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, when I hit a big wall
of depression that we could talk about, It's like I
lost connection with who I was. But I do know
that I'm a father, anime lover, a writer, and someone
who loves to think things through. And I'm just sitting
in it in the seat, watching the watching life on

(04:49):
the screen happen.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
You know. So who is the rapper Big Sean in
twenty twenty four?

Speaker 3 (04:55):
The rapper Big Sean is somebody who is experiments and
still I feel like I'm getting sharper and better as
i go along. I feel like I'm mastering my voice more.
I've been taking like vocal lessons. I feel like I'm
mastering what I want to talk about more and still
accepting that I want to have fun sometimes too, and
just like rap to just find different rhyme schemes. It

(05:17):
ain't always got to be about something. But I also
love saying what's on my heart, you know, And that's
why I'm excited about this album, because I do have songs.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
That explore, like.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
In depth feelings or that are very focused, you know
what I'm saying, and that are important.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
So as a rapper, I.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
Feel like I'm at a place where I'm testing my
own boundaries too. I'm like exploring, like because I feel
like I am an amazing lyricist, and I feel like
that I haven't shown the world that fully to my
capabilities because of the amount of music.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
That I don't drop or the you know.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
The amount how time goes so fast and I don't
get a chance to like catch up with it, and
all of a sudden, two three years go by and
I got hundreds of songs that I don't.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Even know if they ever see the light of day. So,
you know, not to be.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
Along with the answer, but as a rapper, like I said,
I'm just I'm still figuring it out. But I'm definitely
somebody who has a perspective or something.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
And say, you know, I asked you those those two
questions because I saw the clarity PSA and you said
something in it and I'm paraphrase, and if you are
feeling stuck, are you feeling you not in alignment with
who you are? That can lead to anxiety and depression
and all these things that can be a big waste
of your time. And it often feels like Big Sean
the Rapper is not in alignment with Sean anders and

(06:35):
the Man, and Sean Anders and the Man not in
alignment with Big Sean the Rapper. So what are your
thoughts on yourself?

Speaker 2 (06:43):
That's a pretty good analysis.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
It's not that I'm not aligned, It's that I'm a
multifaceted person. So it's kind of like the records that
I do or I'm just popping shit having fun, It's
like those are That's.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
A part of me, you know, and so is you know.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
I know you've heard this song, but like a song
I got called Break the Cycle with Charlie Wilson and
a song boundaries, like that's a part of.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Me too, and that's the beauty of that.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
I like this album because I split it up into
four different dynamics. So to me, it's the most aligned
that I've ever been musically with that Big Sean and
Sean Anderson have been musically aligned, because it's really all
different aspects of myself, you know what I'm saying. So
I could see, like from a listener standpoint, how they
could think that because it's like you're talking about like

(07:30):
some shit that's like not so meaningful, like I could
just be like rapping. I don't know what's an example,
like shooting my shot. I gotta get in a shot
out I hit it. I'm fully committed, like hey, which
even songs like that like Bounce Back, I still kind
of keep like a little bit of meaning to them still,
you know what I mean, Like even the high energy
songs like a level of motivation just because that's like

(07:53):
rooted in me. But at the same time, I like
having just fun sometimes and just talking to my shit
and just like freestyle and going hard as doctor Umar
and White just you know, it's fun to me still,
and I feel like I don't ever want to lose
that aspect of having fun with it, you know.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
I want to stay on the Clarity psc Yeah, I
feel like that was very slept on right in the
Clarity PSA. You also say we're all probably dealing with
time moving so fast and trying to keep up with ourselves,
and I agree with that, but that could be even
harder if we don't even know what version of ourselves
we are trying to keep up with. So in twenty

(08:31):
twenty four, can these two versions of yourself peacefully coexist. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
And it is a conflicting thing because when you say
two versions, I think there's like ten versions of me
that you know, I kind of like always trying to align
with or you know, all of these different voices and
parts of your soul. Like I said, I got like
a multi layered personality.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
We all do.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, yeah, I do.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
To answer your question, yes, absolutely, And it's coming more
and more into alignment, you know. And I realized that, yeah,
time is moving fast for all of us. So it's
like you can't be sitting here thinking that that person's
always going to be here, This moment's always gonna be here.
I remember even with Nipsey, like luckily on my last album,
I I got to get a song off with him

(09:20):
that we had started when he was alive, and then
he passed away and I still didn't finish it. But
my point was I always thought I was gonna be
able to finish it absolutely. You know when I ran
into Kobe on New Year's and he was like, man,
I love your music, bro, not a dollar. We got
a chance to really link and talk and he was like,
I come through and hear your new album, which was
Detroit too.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
At the time, I'll come.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
Through and check it out in an event, you know,
I'm like, hell yeah, So I'm at the studio, like,
let me just it's not ready yet, it's not ready yet,
and then bam. You know, you just never know what
family members, you know, anyone who's always going to be there.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
So it's like, take advantage of your time now.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
And that's been my biggest battle is because when I
live in a moment, the anxiety comes from me trying
to live in another moment the same time. So it's
like I realized that, of course I'm overwhelmed because I'm
in a moment right now. You're not even taking advantage
of a full moment or appreciating it, you know what
I'm saying. So I know, I know, I keep giving
these long winded answers.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
This is a long form conversation.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Cool cool, cool.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah. Even even with the Nipsy thing, that wasn't all
you though, because like Nipsey was notorious for not finishing
the records, like it would take me a while to
finish the record.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah, what I heard, that's just an art That's an
artist thing too, you know, it's an artist thing. But
and even he hit me up like, yo, come to
my video shoot his last video he shot, and I
was he hit me up at the last minute, but
I was like, damn by the time.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
I get there, I should have just went bro Like.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
And even last time, I like saw him at an
event and he was like nervous about the Grammys and
I was telling he was like, man, you know what
if I don't win for I'm like, bro, I was like,
you got next time, you know, And all this is
just like those are kind of things that I've been
realizing that it's always not true, you know, and that
you may not always have time, so take advantage of it.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
You know.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
Writing a book is something.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
I always wanted to do eventually, but I was like, no,
I needed to do.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
It right now before while I have the opportunity. You know.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
You also in the Clarity video, I really like that
you fuck with the Clarity video.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
No I do.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
I do. I've been trying.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
I did that with such intention for people to realize
how important it is to be clear and intentional and
how much it affects your family and your crew. Are
like breaking a cycle, you know, or like doing all
these things and that's.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Why you had to circle. Yeah, I said like happiness. Yeah,
what else? Was it?

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Pressure? And focus? And that I made that up.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
You know.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
I drew that and just like animated it and brought
it to life because that's what my life was feeling like.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, Tyler the creator says in the Clarity video, he says,
do you rapping is your superpower? Putting words together is
your superpower? But then also he says, it's your greatest flaw.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Right?

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Did he expound on that off camera and how did
do you interpret his words? Well?

Speaker 3 (12:02):
I could have easily edited out that last part, but
I wanted to keep it honest. I didn't want to
make it look like just a highlight reel for Big Sean.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Right, So it's like I interpreted it.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah, he did build on it, but he you know,
sometimes I don't want to like misquote him, but I
think he meant that. Sometimes it's not all about the
fucking raps man, you know. Sometimes it's like you can
like overwrap something too or like you could be so lyric.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
People's heads are lyrical, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
But when he came to the studio, he was just like, Bro,
you're just you know, he was giving me so many
compliments off camera, like, bro, like your lyrics, you're this,
and I think he's incredible too, obviously, like an all
around musician and rapper and lyricist and all that too.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
So how did you interpret his words for.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
You when he said rapping is your super power, it's.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
Also your greatest flaw.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
Uh? I just interpreted it as his opinion really, like,
I don't think it's my greatest flaw. I think it's
the reason I'm here, you know, the reason I've been
able to live the life I lived. But I understood
where he was coming from though, Like I see what
he's saying, Like it could be it could be interpreted
a lot of ways, Like it could be like, you're
real good at rapping, but maybe the amount and high

(13:21):
level that you rap at maybe you could execute on
other parts of your artistry as well. Like maybe it's
like take some of the focus off the rapping because
you're so good at it, and maybe dude, apply it
to other parts something like that.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
You know, years ago you said that making music became
a burden for you. How long were you in that
mental space? Do you feel like that might hurt your
career anyway.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, yeah, so since the beginning. Let's go back to
that real quick. I'm gonna get to that.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
When I was eleven years old and I rapped for
my mom for the first time, right, and it was
like gangster rap was like the most popular you know
what I'm saying, fifty saying, both our neighbors sold like
my mom. My mom was kind of like a motown parent,
Like we were listening to like Stevie Wonder, Diana Ross
Isley Brother, you know, Marvin Gay and so I literally

(14:12):
seen like the wildest shit happened around my house, you
know what I'm saying, coming home from school, to da
coming out from behind the cars pointing their guns at us,
thinking we were our neighbors.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
You know what I'm saying, Like just wild ass shit.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
Like So when I wanted to be a rapper at
eleven years old, I didn't realize like my mom being
the first person how critical of a moment that was
me rapping for her, not shutting it down, her being like,
oh you man, keep going like, oh, you're so good
at it, you know what I'm saying. And I just
appreciate her for that aspect of just accepting me and

(14:46):
nurturing me and just going further into debt, paying from
my studio, sessons, driving me from Detroit to Chicago and
back to work with producers. And my whole family is
a family of scholars, meaning that like they all got degrees,
they all are teachers, and all sorts of stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
And I was the first person to.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
Say I want to do music, you know what I'm saying,
and something a little bit different. And my mom being
such a dreamer herself, she was the only one who
really supported me. And I used all my college grant
like I used all the bonds that my grandma saved
up for me, and spent it all on this dream
that I had, you know, and spent it all. And
more so, when we talk about from eleven years old

(15:27):
me treating it like it was my job, I treated
it like it was my job. I would like press
up CDs, shot my first album cover in sears and
like with press up CDs like I treated it like it.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Was a job and just for because it was to
me and I didn't know why.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
But I really later found out that that it was
my purpose and I didn't and I didn't know what
a purpose was back then for real, Like I knew
the word, but I didn't know the meaning of.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
It, but it was like it meant.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
It meant so much to me, So I would do
things that I hated fucking doing anyway, Like I hated
battle rapping. I don't have a battle rap voice. I
don't have like that meat middle ass Beanie Siegel.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
War motherfucker's bad.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
You know, I got like a I had, especially then
when I was younger, I had like a thin ass boy.
So I had to make up for it by being
like clever and witty and metaphorical and shit right, And
it was just way harder for me. So anyway, I
did all these things I didn't want to do because
I believed in this dream so much. Right So every

(16:27):
by the way, everyone's saying it's never gonna happen, it's
not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. My mom wasn't
saying that. She was the one who told me. I
remember one of my English teachers. I'm not gonna put
her name on blast, but someone can figure it out.
Who told me, like, yo, like you got good grades,
make sure you apply to college because this music thing,
like that's not even a reliable thing, like you're you know,

(16:49):
you messed around, throw you throw your whole life away
doing this right, So it's like, Okay, I'm telling people like, no,
I got it though you know, I could see it.
I always could see it and feel it. I just
I knew it was gonna happen. I just didn't know
how it was gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
You know.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
And sometimes we don't have to worry about the how twos,
So I didn't forget your question. I'm gonna get to it.
So anyway I do, I meet yay, I wrap form.
Years go by without anything happening. But I knew it
was gonna happen because I was into had just got
into manifesting and reading all these books, and I saw it.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
I saw me being.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
Signed to good music all this stuff, even though he
got back, and so I'm not looking for any new artists.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
Like, I knew it was.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
Gonna happen, right, did everything I could to make it
happen and kept my relationships going. Anyway, we could talk
about that more, but that was the first time I
dealt with depression, and we could dive back into that.
So anyway, I finally make this happen. Do the freshman
cover all this stuff, drop these mixtapes, one mixtape, another mixtape,
another mixtape. I do the BT site forer with good

(17:50):
music and it you know, I get one hundred thousand.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Followers overnight, it literally.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
Then I work on my first album, get the first
album going. The first album is successful, the second album
isn't as successful. But why because I think I need
to return back to my mixtape route. So I do
Detroit mixtape, which was fire. Then I'm doing all the
cruel summer ideas as well, like just helping behind the scenes,

(18:16):
like mercy click, all these different ideas that I'm literally
coming up with.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
Plus people stole your flow, plus people still you didn't
even really get to eat off your flow.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
Yeah, and all me the whole shut the fuck up
all of that, right, And I'm spreading myself then, Paul.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
So it's like then I do my album and it's.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
Like, oh, the album isn't as good as it could
be whatever, And it wasn't because I was listening to
so many people saying you got to keep your foot
on the neck. You got to keep your foot on
the neck. This is an opportunity, Like all this stuff right,
and they're right, but I lost completely lost sense of.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Who I was. That's when it became a burden.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
That's when it became a burden.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
And then I dug deep because people were counting me out.
I made Dark scott Paradise, and to me, that was
like my first time where I kind of tuned it
out and just like focused on me and like what
I wanted to make, and that that was one of
my biggest, at se most successful albums. And then after
that I fell back into the rhythm of everyone being like,
oh shit, now you really so now you got to

(19:11):
stay on the neck man, So it's like, all right, shit.
So I did an EP with Jena twenty eighty eight.
Then I did another album I Decided, which was like
came right on the heels of twenty eighty eight. Then
I did another album with Metro Blooming, which I completely freestyled,
and I was literally burnt the fuck out at that point.
I literally was touring, burnt the fuck out, just tired

(19:33):
on adderall at the same time.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
So that completely would have my brain fried.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
Like I was not prescribed as shit, so my dopamine
was nonexistent. The dopamine that your brain naturally produces when
you take synthetic drugs and anything like that, like all
sorts of drugs. It just like I'm not saying I
was taking all sorts of drugs, but I was taking adderall.
But I'm just letting you know, all type of drugs
do that. It's like it produces this artific show amount

(20:00):
of dopaminet where you can be hyper productive, but it's
not sustainable and then you'll crash out. And it made
me like hit a wall that it was like it
was either gonna follow me or I had to like
climb over. And that's when I fell back completely from everything.
That's when it was like it was hard for me
to do a conference call, you know what I'm saying, right,

(20:21):
So that is when from like twenty eighteen to twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
That I was just like I was just off.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
I was like, had the worst anxiety by posting a
picture on Instagram. Bro, you know, just weird shit that
you shouldn't even be thinking about so much.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
And I just was what anxiety is. Yeah, and you
probably get more anxiety because you're like, yo, I prayed
for all of this, I got it, and I'm feeling
like I don't appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Well, it's confusing.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
Yeah, it's confusing because you feeling like you don't appreciate it,
and you feel like why do I feel like this
when I've literally exceeded my own My dream was to
have a song on the radio.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
And to move my mom out of out of the hood.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
So it's like everything else has been an extreme bonus, right,
So it was just was very confusing. And then I
realized that I just was so out of touch with
myself that I had to reconnect with myself. And I
linked with like people who helped me do that. At
my therapist, I linked with this lady Marie Diamond, who
really helped me like tapping spiritually with myself and like bro,
I would go like take trips to just connect with

(21:25):
myself and like meditate and like get spiritual and connect
with God more. And like I started working out, I
started just eating better, taking care of myself and just
slowly returning back to who I was, trying things that
I didn't know if I liked or like I would
go to the gun range, like oh shit, I've jumped
out of jumped out a plane.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
You know what I'm saying. Skydiving, like I did a
lot of.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
Things just reconnected with myself and it was it was
very very necessary.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
I want to sleuth to your mom too, because what
you explained. There's a therapist name of Elliott Connie. He
does solution focused therapy and he talks about the astronaut theory.
Like when your kid comes to you and your kiss says, hey,
I want to be an astronaut. You don't be like, man,
you ain't never going to space. Ain't you know nobody
going to space? You say, oh, okay, how are we
gonna do that? Let's do it. Yeah, I figure out
how to do it. That's what she did for.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
You, man. And it's just like.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
It makes me emotional because it's like, damn, it could
have went either way, you know. And there was definitely
times where I gave a faith in myself, you know,
another time. So we could go back a little bit
just to answer the question when that burnout happened of
twenty nineteen, that was my second experience with like depression,
and it made sense because there are substances involved too.

(22:39):
When I say that, like the adderall or even alcohol.
A lot of people don't realize that alcohols are depressing.
So if you got any type of mental you like,
you know, any anxiety, any depression, It's not an instantaneous thing.
It could be weeks later that that shit has an
effect on you like that, you know. So anyway, we
go back to when I didn't go to college, right,

(22:59):
so let me paint that picture.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
I didn't go to college.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Because I rapped for Ya in my junior year of
high school. For people who don't know, and I was
a telemarketer at the time.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
I was like cashing my check.

Speaker 3 (23:11):
It's like as a rap fairy tale story bro like,
I didn't cast my check, got down to the radio
station that I had been doing a show there for
a year and a half already called the Friday Night Cipher.
The Friday Night Cipher was a show where you were
battle rap people. You whoever wins the battle rap will
get to rap over instrumentals on air.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
So I did that for a year straight. So I
had all these raps, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
So by the time when Yay's promoting his album Lay Registration,
my boy like, YO, go to the station rap for ya,
blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Right, I end up downtown.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
I lied and said I left my phone in the
station because I was there the night before.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
They let me in.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
I ended up rapping for him, and I had the
CD that I've been selling around school at the time,
and I had a press kid.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
Bro. I was like very prepared, overly prepared. Hel JLB. No,
that wasn't jailb.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
It was Hot Hot one oh seven back then it
was one on five point nine, Hot one Old, Hot
one Old. It's the hot station. I'm tripping right now. Anyway,
I rap for him. As we walking out the station,
He's like, yo, I don't got time. He running late.
He had been there for a while. I'm like, bro,
let last call my ship. Blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yo.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
Story, that's the only time I ever like cry listening
to a song type shit. He's like, all right, man,
you're gonna guilty, you know, like you cal rap while
we're walking out.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
I ended up rapping for like ten minutes straight.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
Like, we ended up stopping at the at the entrance
slash exit at the station and he's just listening to me.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Right So anyway, time goes on.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
He he you know, Eventually I go to my senior
year of high school. No word from him, but we talked.
I'm talking to don See here and there and nan
seeven keeping the contact.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yo, what up big Sean? Yoll uh y'all.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
We really Yo. We banging that new song.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
You said, you know, shout out my boy don See
like I do a very good DWN scene in pressure.
But you know, Yeay was blowing up at the time,
so I understand. I didn't understand then, but I understand
now the spotty communication, you know. So anyway, we finally
get the word that they want to sign. And to

(25:06):
make a long story short, I ended up like turning
down on I graduated high school to three point like
seven GPA, and I turned down all the scholarships I
had to Michigan State and my family is a UFN family.
But I got accepted to Michigan State and had like
a lot of scholarships. So I was going to go
to Michigan State. Michigan State and all my friends go
to college. I'm still at the crib where I grew up,

(25:29):
like since I was eight years old, in the same room, right,
And at first I'm like, oh shit, okay, he said
he wanted to give me a record deal. It was happening, right,
A year goes by, bro, And in that year, I
have such a crazy deep depression because all my friends
are hitting up every couple of weeks, Yo, what's.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Up, man, what's up with the music? She's like, I
ain't been hearing none of about it. You know.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
I would go my beautiful grandma would have Sunday dinner
every Sunday, and.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
She would every Sunday, what's going on with the music? Baby?

Speaker 3 (25:58):
Like you know, it was just it was hard, Bro.
I still feel scarred from those times.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Because you feel like a loser. I felt like a loser.

Speaker 3 (26:07):
And like the girl I was dating went to Michigan
State and I would meet when I'm in her family,
she was like, yeah, he's a rapper.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
And they would be.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
Like like okay, you know they thought that she could
do better.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
And it was just like it was like a test
of my faith.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
And you know, when you got that faith, you got
to walk on that invisible bridge of faith.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
You don't see it, but you just know us there. Right.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
So anyway, Man, A year goes by and I realized, Okay,
I gotta be productive. So all these books my mom
been forcing on me, the seven Spiritual Laws of success,
asking it is given by Estra and Jerry Hicks, the
Four Agreements, the Alchemists, all of these type books, classics.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
I just fucking I'm like, let me just dive into
these books.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
I had a desperation for real, and I started meditating
and I just started seeing it, Bro, And then I
was like, Okay, I had found this list before I
wrapped for ya that I wrote down because I was
lightway into it.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
But I just was busy, you know.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
I was a high school in high school, and I
saw this list where it said Good Music number one,
number two, Rockefeller number three, Shady Records number four, Grand
Hustle number five, Innerscope. Like I just had a list
of like these are the top five labels I want
to be signed to, and Good Music was number one,

(27:25):
and I saw that. I was like, yo, I'm on
that path. It was like one of them omens that
it was just one little thing I needed to realize. No, God,
I could do this.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Bro. I met Yay in rap for him.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
I ain't say you wanted to sign me, So I
just manifested and visualized the paperwork coming in all this time.
But in that time, Bro, in that one year, I
was so depressed that I just wanted to give up.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Bad and I give up on life for just the rap.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Just on the rap.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
So of course you when you depressed, you always think
about killing yourself. But I wasn't being that dramatic then.
But I just was like, Okay, I'm.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Done, you know.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
And I remember I applied for community college, and I
remember my grandma was like, yeah, it just applied for
community college, like it's okay.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
You know.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
And I just remember my mom being like, you know,
like what are you doing? You know, and it was
it was a moment dog, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
But she didn't want you to go to commuity college.
She didn't want to give up on your dream.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, she was just like, yo, what do you doing?

Speaker 1 (28:29):
You know?

Speaker 2 (28:30):
You know, any tissue that's cool, it's cool. Man.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
So anyway, bro its just when I said, it could
have went either way. Could have went either way, you
know what I'm saying. So I'm just thankful for that
I had these guardian angels in my life, like my
mom just come in a former any anything, you know,
a book.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
Or you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
So that's why that's important. I mean, just his parents
like Yo, when your kids come to you with a dream,
with a vision, yeah, even if you can't see it,
just no, that's God telling something to that child. So
you our job is just to support that dream. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
Like so I just appreciate her being so open minded
about that bro and like willing to support her baby.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
And like she went into debt.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
You know, I would see her cry over bills and stuff,
and so she wouldn't ever complain about paying for something
for the studio for me though, you know, and still
would cry about bills that night. So it's just it's
cool because you know. Another story is was she a
hip hop fan? That's something you got to ask her.

(29:38):
She didn't really play hip hop that much. You know,
she was somebody who we would have it on, like
on the radio and stuff. But I remember when I
bought the Slim Shady LP, she was like confused, like
what the fucking She.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Didn't even know he was from Detroit, And.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
You know, I remember I had her at the video
shoot when I just did a song with him, and
she was like, you remember when we bought I was like, yeah,
I remember, you know, from co or whatever. The thing
about that though, that I want to say is me
and her have fell out, Me and my mom, you know,
after all the stuff we've been through, And it was
definitely it was that time where I'm talking about where

(30:14):
I was like just burnt out right, and she ended
up coming out to visit me because we needed to
rekindle our relationships. She wasn't about to let that happen
with her baby boy, feel me, so she came out
and stayed with me in October twenty nineteen, and she
was like, I'm going to stay for the whole winter.
I'll leave on your birthday in March twenty two. So
March twenty twenty comes around and then coch Evinson's right,

(30:37):
So my mom was like, I'll just stay until this
is over. It's probably gonna be another month or two.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Bro.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
She ended up staying for almost two more years, and
me and her in my crib.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
So it's like, look at God, Look at God.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
It was like we not only did we reconnect, it
was like a reconnection that's going to last for the
rest of my life now, Like we back tight, you know,
and we had we have We had not been that tightened, don't.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
I don't talk to her every day or nothing like that.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
But me and my mom just are like I feel
like that was a blessing in disguise, you know, and
the fact that I said, like it could have gone
either way. That's been like the biggest pleasure is like
having her be with me and like believe in me,
and like everyone else too. I ain't gonna like my dad,
my brother, like everyone. Everyone stepped up and played their part,

(31:26):
and I just I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Man.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
So it's like when I think about my son coming
to me, like I can't wait to nurture whatever he
wanted to be. You feel me, whether it's like an astronaut,
a doctor, a scientist.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
He feeds me like y'all want to be the.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Best manager at McDonald's. Whatever, We're gonna make you do,
whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Calvin, Remember Calvin McDonald's commercials period.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
Yeah, like whatever you want to do. Like, I just
can't wait to support him.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, you know we were here now with the new
album Better Meeting You. What's the science in that title? Man?

Speaker 3 (32:01):
Better Meeting You kind of just represents like my mentality
of when you have to be someone that changes your
whole environment, your whole family, breaks a cycle, changes the
whole trajectory of your circle. It's like sometimes you got
to deal with the extra pressure, the extra weight of
it all, and the extra just bullshit, right, But it's

(32:23):
like you really got to understand you don't got to
do it. You get to do it, and it's a
privilege when you can step up and you're the one
that's able to handle it, you know what I'm saying.
So when I hold my son and when I think
about that, it's like better me than you having to
deal with all of these things right now. But and
sometimes that's only his mama too, But when it's his

(32:44):
time to deal with it, cause he's gonna come into
being a man one day that he accepts the responsibility
probably of stepping up to the play, you know what
I mean, and really highlighting you as an individual, like
I'm a better meeting you could ever be. So to me,
it is like probably my truest album in the sense
of just doing whatever I want to do, you.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
You started off with a record called Apologize and you
sample Ray J the Breakfast Club moment.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah that's right, no no, no, no, yes, yeah that moment.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
And so you addressed a lot of things on that record.
You know, someone who seemed to be stealing from you,
someone who tried to suck your girl, somebody that's supposed
to be Big Bro. You said, you don't even want
them to apologize. What's wrong with here? And I'm sorry, man,
it ain't nothing wrong with it.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
But an apology without a plan attached to it is
a is an empty is an empty apology, and that
ain't shit.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, they say the best apology is changed behavior, you
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
So it's like people apologize and do the same thing.
For that song.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
Specifically, I kind of like put five people into one person.
So it was a good writing exercise for me because
I created a character for this song, and it's like
five different people I made into one person, and then
I wrote the song as if that person existed.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
You know, So these people gonna know who they are,
all of them?

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Wow yeah, wow, Yeah, all of them for sure.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
But a lot of people when they hear it, they'd
be like, oh, it's directly at Yay, it's for sure
about Kanye.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
And I thought that would do.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
When I heard the big Bro line, I'm like nah,
because he said he was looking out for Big Bro,
and you have to pay big bro lloyal for you.
That wouldn't make no sense.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
That wouldn't make no sense. Man, you really was listening. Yeah,
a lot of people in they hear, they don't all
the way. I'll be wondering if people have ears sometimes
that work, because he would just be like even when
I dropped.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
That freestyle, just having fun, people like you.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Just in Keimdrick lamar, Oh, we're gonna get through that,
damn nigga.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
Like I literally said, niggas looking for engagement, like they
got they need band.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
I got better things to do to find someone.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
To be people. They're like, oh, he's trying.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
To be Yeah, I'm like, what the fuck are y'all
not hearing? I just said I got better things to do.
Like you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
I want to get to that. This is a multi
laid interview.

Speaker 3 (34:53):
Yeah, so, but yeah, about that song apologized that was
That's the whole thing about it. It's about like five
different people manifesting into one and did a writing exercise.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
I was telling you, you know, we was talking behind
the scenes that I really like when you and your
your bag, like when you're doing stuff like break the cycle,
like those self reflective records, and I can tell you've
been doing you know, your work on your healing journey,
and you expressed it in these records. And on that
record Break the Cycle, you said Leena Wafe said you
was the Black brad Pit and you said, even though

(35:25):
that's flattering, you was asking her, is just what people
think of me? Like I just go from one star
to another star? Like why did that bother you?

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Out of consolation or it bothered me?

Speaker 3 (35:36):
Because that's not who I am for really, you know,
I'm not in it. I'm not just hopping. And but
to her, it was like, yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Nigga, you went from her.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
I heard it.

Speaker 3 (35:47):
Her reason is, yeah, that's not that's not cool, Like
that's not how I like planted out.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
I wasn't you know what I'm saying. So I just
was highlighting that, like I told her.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
I actually saw her recently and was like, yo, I
mentioned you about that situation, but it just well I
didn't sit right with me.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
That ain't That ain't how I'm trying to come across.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
You know, you want people to respect you for the art.

Speaker 3 (36:10):
Well not yeah, of course respect me for the art,
but I also know want people to just think like
those are the only type of first of all, the
only type of women I'm into one, you know what
I mean. That's not That's not how I'm trying to
come across.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
That's the world though. It's like if you work at
a law firm, you probably gonna end up dating a lawyer,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
It makes sense, Yeah, it makes sense in that in
that way, but I just didn't want it to be like, oh,
I only like singers, or I only fuck with this
or there. There are a lot of people I've dated
that people don't know about, that have nothing to do
with the music industry, that have nothing to do with
anything in that world that I've kept private before.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
I just want to state that because, yeah, that's that's
why I felt the way about it, because it's like
I didn't feel that was an accurate picture of me.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
You know. That's why I addressed that.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
When I heard that line and you brought up Kendrick,
it made me think of a line Kendrick had in
a record that got leaked when he said, You're finally
famous for who you date, not how you rhyme? Boy.
When you heard that ball did you, did you get
any rhymes prepared? And did it have the same reaction
that you had when Lena said that do all right?

Speaker 2 (37:19):
So yeah, because those are two questions.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
When I first heard that, I definitely had a whole
thing prepared.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
So let's let's let's back this up.

Speaker 3 (37:31):
So I did a song called No More Interviews where
I'm rapping about people rapping fast and blah blah blah,
and people like.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Oh, you talking about Kendrick.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
I'm like, well, I'm not talking about anyone specifically, I'm
just talking my shit. At the time, there was a
lot of motherfuckersrap. I'm surprised no one thought Eminem or
I remember Logic was hot at the mgat you know
all these other rappers that rap fast, and I'm like,
this Thingker Kendrick don't even rap fast all the time.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Like it's other people who be rapping fast all the time.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
But I definitely was like not running from or ducking
no type smoke at all. Like, so when I heard
that there might be, you know, some remnants of something,
I did have something prepared.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
I'm not gonna lie.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
And then I ran into Day Free in the elevator
at W and me and I'm like, yo, was that
I forgot what the controls?

Speaker 2 (38:20):
No?

Speaker 3 (38:20):
No, no, this was way after because okay, so, by
the way Kendrick has been in my house, me and
him are cool by he's inviting me to his mom's house.
Before this was like my old house. We were cooler
back then. Let me say that because I'm not gonna
sit here and be like we cool. I don't talk
to him, but I remember, I'm just get breaking down

(38:41):
the timeline. I remember when in I dropped, I decided
and bounced back and all this stuff, and he dropped.
He was dropping his album, damn. And I can't remember
what freestyle. I guess it was the hard Part or.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Five maybe something like that.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
And people like, oh, he's talking about Big Sean in there, right,
so I ran, I run in it.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
I hit Hip top Dog first. I'm like, yo, who are.

Speaker 3 (39:06):
You talking about? He's talking about that. He's just talking
to me, just throwing the bone out there right.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Why you just didn't have Kendrick? Why not think Kendrick
when you talking about me?

Speaker 2 (39:15):
Because I didn't think I had his right number.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
I think I did hit him first, and like, I'm like,
I don't have I got top number because he had
just had me come out of his charity event like
a year ago or something in Watts, you know what
I'm saying. So I'm thinking, we like straight, you know
what I'm saying. So then no, no, no, I went
about you went about you?

Speaker 1 (39:34):
All right? Cool.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
So the little shit I had, I just was like,
let me, let me get out of my head cause
I'm thinking, like it might be something.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
So you had a song.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
I had this to some ideas, you know what I'm saying,
Just awesome, just to be real with you, Like, I
have some ideas, you know, mapped out.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
So then Nipsey Dies.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
Joe Budden had created this Like before that, Joe Budden
had made this like there's a Kendrick big Sean beef
and to the point where I tried to ignore it,
but he made that narrative so fucking real that I
think it really did become a thing.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
So like he wasn't all the way wrong though you
said it might have been something in the air.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
Well, yeah, because I'm getting to the point where me
and Kendrick talker. So I get to the point where
I'm like, damn, dude, we got something going on. That's
why I had something prepared, right, And then when I
run in the day free and he's like, no, bro,
it ain't nothing like saul I love. He said something
like that wasn't directly towards you. It was for anyone,

(40:34):
you know.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
So then Nipsey dies and I sit on the plane
next to Punch random as hell. We're headed to J
Cole's festival, and he's like, you ever talked to Kendrick
And I'm like, no, I never. I know it ain't
ship there, but we never really spoke. Then in that

(40:59):
around that time, like that day, or maybe the day
before that, or the week or day within that same
time period, that leaked shit happened. It was a leaked
verse and it said what you said. I'm like, damn, nigga, y'all,
motherfucker said it wasn't shitt and it was something So
you got me looking crazy.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
But maybe he prepared something just like the same way
you were thinking. He was like, you know, let me
get my nukes just in case two. Right.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
But the thing is that song came out and he
changed that bar, right, So that wasn't on the song anymore.
It was leaked verse, so I had to keep that
in mind, because I was pissed when I heard it.
So then I'm like, okay, he changed that on his own,
so he probably came to the conclusion that it was nothing.
So then I speak. Then me and him talk, and
I got the text on my phone and he's like,

(41:42):
I might pull the text out, and why not, Oh
I ain't even got my somebody else got.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
My phone phone. Essentially need to misquote him.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Yeah, I ain't trying to misquote shit because I don't
give a fuck that much the misquoting.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
And how long ago this used to right after?

Speaker 2 (42:01):
Okay, So I mean you can read my stuff too.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Don't read it, no, no, no, no, I don't think we
should read it because I think that's kind of like
Big James. But I want you to kind of like
see the sentiment of it.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Oh p, So this is me and then this is
him went up. You know, yes, we're in great grievance.
That's right, wrongly, So in a sense, I don't want
to say it.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
He apologized in a sense for going that far, you know,
for that shit coming out right, So I wanted to
show you that because in a sense he apologized, right,
So if Kendrick apologized for that literal, that same leak
that I heard prematurely right that.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
He didn't use. It's like.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
Then it then it leaks fully later, right, and people
hear it. And we already discussed it, and he said,
appreciate the shout out on a Nipsey song.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
I already addressed it on the song with Ni.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
Lack of communication, the wrong information for people feel about
the ego.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
It's like mixing fans with diesel. That's what he said
to you, and no, that's what I said on the
song with Nipsey. In the text, it sounds like he's
kind of said the same thing.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
Yeah, that's why I said it in the song because
in that text he said, Yo, you know, my ego
got to die. So it's like when that shit leaks,
it's like people are like, oh.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
You heard what he's saying about you.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
I'm like, nigga, I'm not a cloud chasing ass nigga. Bro,
I'm solid and I stand on mine and I'm not
about to do something because everyone thinks a certain thing.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Like we already talked about it. I already got an
apology for it.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
And your shirt right now, since I do not care
about their opinions Yeah, why would you care about the
opinions of other people if you know what it is
between you and.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Exactly, and that's what it's been.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
You know, I ain't really had too much communication with
him since then, and you know, but I just want
to let like, I represent a lot of people from
my city, from where I come from, fans of mine
who think I didn't stand on my ship, and that's
not the case.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
That's what I want to clarify.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
I wasn't being a bitch nigga or like tucking my
tail or nothing like that. And if it was real smoke,
if it was really something to stand on, I would
be full front. I would be there, front and center
for it, and I would be prepared, you know what
I'm saying. But it's not and people want to make
something that is not. So that's something that I never
really got a chance to clarify. And you know, to me,

(44:23):
it's better to be about business and to be authentic
and like, if there's literally not a problem there, then
I'm not about to feed into no narrative that isn't
true that I know isn't true.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
Do you feel like the Drake and Kendrick situation be
whatever you want to call it stepped over stepped on
your return because because you.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
Dropped precision precision, yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
And didn't like that dropped like a week later, and
it feels like it just drown dropped the same day.
It was the same day, but you did drop a
freeestot a week before though my tripping.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
I dropped it like a two days before.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Yeah, it feel like it drowned. It feels like it drowned,
like that just drowned that out.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
It did drown it out.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
Bro.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
It was like, but you got to think about it
if it's like metro booming in future And then Kendrick
addressing j Cole and Drake my first person shooter, you're
kind of involving a whole kind of like it's a
whole thing. It's like a whole you know, as opposed
to me. I hadn't even dropped music in years, bro,

(45:25):
and I'm just like a return, So I understood it
was I was surprised too. I was just like everybody else, like,
oh shit, Like you know.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Aren't you glad that you and Kendrick never really got
into it though, because that could have been you Sean,
that could be what could have been he did drake
pretty dirty?

Speaker 2 (45:43):
He did?

Speaker 1 (45:44):
That could have been Would you have been ready for
all of that?

Speaker 2 (45:48):
I guess we'll never know. Yes, of course, of course
I would have been ready for it.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
What changes have you made to better meet than you?
Since the album got Well.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
Luckily it wasn't the album. It was kind of like
a couple of things from the album, you know, Luckily
it wasn't the album. So I think whoever did that though,
it was just kind of like it was just kind
of fucked up to do.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Like I don't know why.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
You know, they said, oh, you was talking about Yeah.
It's like, yeah, was talking about me too, you know what.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
So it's like we all saw drink champs. Yeah, what
the fuck did you find out who leaked the album?

Speaker 1 (46:32):
And what made you have to get on Instagram Live
and clear up that it wasn't Kanye?

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Oh nothing made me do that.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
I just was like on Instagram Live vibing and I
saw someone in the comment or some shit, and like
it just popped in my head, Like I didn't have
like a script ready for Instagram Live. But I just
don't think that Ya would do some shit like that,
because maybe I'm giving him too much credit. I don't know,
because it's like I know, I wouldn't do no shit

(46:58):
like that, Like I wouldn't leak like I got a
hell of Kanye's songs unreleased on my hard drive.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
I would never because ideas that.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
I was working on or seeing if I could contribute
to that, I would never leak because that's just like,
that's just uh. Since now this is not my character.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Have you spoken him since then?

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Since Drink Champ?

Speaker 3 (47:19):
No, since the well really since the album leaked? I
guess nah, okay, nah? How was your relationship now?

Speaker 1 (47:27):
And can you have a relationship with a person who
shitted on you the way he did on Drink Champs
and he owes you six million dollars? Can y'all ever
have a genuine relationship?

Speaker 2 (47:35):
He doesn't owe me the money anymore. It got resolved,
but someone paid me. I guess it was him.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
But word, yeah, but I took a little less than
I probably. I just wanted to end it instead of
going to court for some ship over that.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
What was the haircut? It was six minutes, What was
the head of What was the head cut? How much
did you end up getting?

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Let's see, that is none of your business. But You're
good though, y'all he did pay you basically.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
Well, yeah, So the thing was I had an issue,
and I had an issue because I kept privately being like, yo,
I need my money to his lawyers, to him, not
to not really bringing it to him so much because
I know the type of guy he is. He don't
be dealing with all of the business aspect of things
all the time, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
So I'm doing it properly.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
I'm going through the proper channels management that like, you
know what I'm saying. And then after years go by,
it's not like I was super hurting for it. But
at the same time, it's like, first of all, and
I don't want to get it misconstrued, like signing to
Good Music was the best thing that could have happened
to me in that moment in my life period.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
I don't take it for granted.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
It was a golden opportunity signing to my favorite artists
at the time and being able to sell one hundred
and eighty five.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Million records under Good Music. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
It was a dream come true and his only profitable
artists at that So it's like I wore that good
music and still do. I still fuck with the brand
and what it did for me and everything, And there's
a part of me that will forever fuck with ya
because of that too.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
For signing me. You know, I'll never discount that.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
But at the same time, with the deal I signed,
he made more money off of me my music to me,
which is totally fine.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
I'm not complaining about that. It's just a fact.

Speaker 3 (49:26):
People be trying to take this so much as a fact.
It's just a fucking fact. So when your old money
off of a deal that you're already getting the lesser
part of.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
It, and you're hitting.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
I'm hitting up Death Jam because I'm audered in Depth Jam.
Jeff Harlston.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
You know, Jeff, I'm like, Yo, I need my money, bro, Like,
where the fuck is my money?

Speaker 3 (49:46):
Because I'm audered in Depth Jam. Every time I ordered
Depth Jam, there's money sitting there. And then when I
really broke it down and they were like, oh, yo,
you sold one hundred and eighty five million records, I'm like, wait,
this don't equate right, where's mobi million dollars? Six million dollars.
No one's getting back to me. No one's getting back
to me. So then I drop a record, I drop

(50:07):
a feature on Bunnie to Benny the Butcher's album, and
I say something about it like niggas that's up, beas
that owe me? M's I'm talking about depth jam. Later
on I realized, oh no, your money got paid a
long time ago to good music. Okay, I don't give
a fuck. Where's my money? Oh no, you got to
hit up yay for that? Oh shit, okay, yay, where's

(50:29):
my money? Oh you know, I'm not getting a straight
answer from no one. So then I'm like, bro, y'all
playing with my money. This is ridiculous after all of
the times where I sat in the studio contributed, not
got any credit on shit, which is, like I said,
I'm not even complaining about that is what it is.

(50:49):
But the point is like I need my money that's
owed to me, you know what I'm saying. So that
was that's all that was. I ended up settling because
I ain't want to deal with it no more. I
wanted to move past it because that shit is all
the energy too m h. So you know, and after
he said what he said, and then I got back
up with him after he said what he said on Drink.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Champs, y'all did connect after drink Chap, Yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
I'm just person phone in person Yeah, and he said,
you know, he said what he said.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
I'm not I'm not into like godshipp and stuff.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
But he said what he said, and it made me
realize that I can't really take I couldn't really take
all what he was saying serious or on that drink Champs.
Very performative, very performative, And that's the That's how I am.
That's like probably one of the reasons why, like I
feel like that's what I'm not. That's what he's good at,
and I'm not so good at that, you know, because

(51:38):
I'm like I don't like doing things that don't feel
real or like you know where you know, when we
were there, it was like, oh yeah, make sure they get.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
A picture of us leaving here so they can I'm like,
what nigga, you saying something?

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Wow?

Speaker 3 (51:50):
That shit about me though, you know what I mean, Like,
I hate that sucking shit.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
I don't like that type shit. I don't like the
type of I don't know, like.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
I'm the type of person I value my relationships. Yeah,
So if I've ever called you a friend. If I've
ever called you a family, I really mean that. So
if you do something like that to me, and I
would never do that to you, it's hard for me
that would look at you the same. EMBO.

Speaker 3 (52:12):
Yeah, I think he was just pissed because he felt
like I chose Drake over him. That that relates back to, like,
I only bring that up because he brought that up
to somebody who told me something you said, Drake. I'm
like in twenty fifteen talking about the song Blessings where
I wrote helped Yay write his verse for the song
after he heard the song was I have to be
on it, and I helped him write his verse and

(52:35):
then I told him you got to turn it into
the master and plan tomorrow, bro, because my album is
about to come out. I wake up the next By
the way, I'm doing way too much as an artist,
like I shouldn't even have to be worried about it
like this. I'm checking in like an A and R.
Would Hey, did he send a verse to mastering? Oh no,
he still didn't. I called his engineer, yo. Did he say,
oh no, we still I'm like, bro y'all bush y'all

(52:56):
playing if he wants to be on a song, you
need to send it. We ended up doing a video
version and the radio version. But for some reason, he
thinks because Drake didn't want him on that song. But
I was like, I'm putting ya on this song anyway,
because Yay put me on. If he wants to be
on the song, He's going to be on the song.
So even though I've said that to his face, he

(53:17):
just don't hear me or some shit. So for some
reason he just think that I would be unloyal or
some shit. I really don't know. I can't speak for him.
In fact, I don't like speaking for other people. But
I'm just from my perspective, it was something along those
lines with.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
That manager rap Egos is crazy.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Yeah, what do you think about all of that?

Speaker 1 (53:36):
You know, I think that you should have done what
was best for you and your album in that moment.
I think that, you know, sometimes when you deal with
anxiety and you do about the depression, because I deal
with the same thing with people. Please us and we
don't want to let people down, right, but then we're
the ones that constantly ended up getting let down, Like
you gotta you gotta burst it. I want to talk
about later on. It says something like that, but.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
Yeah, yeah, and that's true though, Bro, it's like I've
be giving a fuck too much about these.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
People that don't give a fuck you.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
None.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
I mean, I don't know. I can't speak from like
I said, but it's.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
Like I be trying to protect people too much, just like,
but it's not in my character to put people ship
out there and be dirty like that. That's really not
who I am. And I say that with pride, you know.
I don't say that like it's just not that's not
who I am.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
So especially if I'm spending all this time doing all
this work on myself, and I can look at you
and tell that you need to do a lot more
work on yourself, so you have grace for that person. Yeah,
but that don't mean that you could have continually, continuously
a lot of person that shit on you no period.
Looking back on your experiences with depression and anxiety, do
you believe it had a negative impact on your career?

(54:48):
Do you believe that everything happened exactly how it was
supposed to?

Speaker 3 (54:52):
They gotta be how everything happened exactly how it's supposed to,
because if anything would have been different. It may have
not let me to the moment that I'm in now,
where I got a beautiful son, I got a beautiful life,
and I got a lot of experiences, and I got
a lot of knowledge. And if things would have happened differently,

(55:14):
who knows what it could have turned out as.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
But you know, I think everything happens how it's supposed
to happen.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Sure, let's talk about your son. On the new album,
you got a song where you sample get on Up,
and on that record you address your son. One of
the balls that really stood out to me is I
look into my son's eyes and still see his innocence.
I see my inner child and him instilled the remnants.
Will he lose it to the world or is it imminent?
Or will he have the confidence that me and his
mom instilled in him? So it made me wonder when

(55:41):
I heard that line. I'm like, damn, are you raising
your son out of fear or love?

Speaker 3 (55:45):
I'm raising him out of love one thousand percent. Like
that's a good question, though, because it kind of does
contemplate that. But the thing about the difference between fear
is when those questions arise is the action you take
on them.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
To me, so like me recognizing that, Like.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
You know, I look at too, my son's I see
his innocence, I see my inner child to him, is
still the remnants? Will he lose it to the world
is imminent? Or is it something that me and his
mama had instilled to him? And the confidence you lose
you could build again. It's like I kind of feel like,
even though there is a having a kid for me
has been one of the most like scariest things, most

(56:27):
beautiful but scariest in a way of like it's a
new territory of new emotions that I didn't even know
I could have, Like the way that I love my
son and like feel connected to him in all moments
and consider him and like has transformed me for the better.

(56:49):
And it's also like a very soft spot. It's like
that it's like I could do without anything. I can't
do without him, you know what I'm saying. So I
thank God every day for his like presence and him
waking up in his health, and like, you know, I
got these affirmations I say every day and like I'm
real serious about it because I really appreciate who he

(57:09):
is and what he's here to do. You know, I
think he's here to do some great things, but I
definitely am raised him out of love, you know, and
any fear it's not really fear, but any time where
there's uncertainty, I have to trust that it's all going
to work out for the best, you.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
Know, because you know, we as black men. And I
always say this from the perspective of my father, Like
I know, my father raised me how to more fear
and love just because he didn't want me to make
the same mistakes he made. He was just afraid of
what the world may do to me.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
Yeah, So that's why I think I think a lot
of our parents, I think a lot of us were
raised out of fear and a fear based way. And
what I mean by that is like even my dad
just like I remember one of the things he would
always say, it's like, man, life isn't fair.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
That's a belief that you're a meeting passing down to
your son, like.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
Life is a fair. It's just hard out here, and
that's his experience. But it's like, you know, like you
gotta work hard. That's one thing that I'm not necessarily
gonna steal in my son. It's like I've seen my
dad and my mom have two jobs, four jobs between them,
and they be broke as hell and they be like
in debt.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
And then I've.

Speaker 3 (58:22):
Seen billionaires who work an hour day. It got all
this money, and it's not about how hard you work.
That's maybe a factor of it, that may be a
part of it, but it's really about how smart you work,
you know.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
And I think that.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
I don't want to project anything onto my son. All
I want to do is just support him whatever he does.
But I think, like another one was the fear of money.
Like I got that from my family growing up, Like
we didn't have a lot of money, right, so it's like, oh,
you gotta really be, you know, conservative, and it has
taught me a lot. Talk about it on Break the
Cycle with Charlie Wilson on my album. But it's the

(58:59):
fear of of scarcity, you know, not having enough that
I you know, somehow nowadays, I just kind of have
an agreement with God and like that no matter what,
I'm always because I always have more than enough to
take care of myself and the people around me that

(59:19):
you know, I choose to take care of.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
And I truly believe that how.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Has your relationship with Jannay and being a father changed
the way you approached you approach life.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
It's taught me to.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
Not it's like you have to consider more than just
yourself and you have to you know, Janey has definitely
taught me to like really make sure she kind of
is aligned with. Like one of those things that I'm
aligned with is like this career, this music isn't everything.

(59:59):
This is everything, you know what I'm saying, Like, yeah,
just that more so. And that kind of goes into
the concept that I was saying earlier about.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
We get so caught up.

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
In like our careers, being successful, all these things. Right
when you realize you really you got to understand success
is a feeling more than it is in amount but
of something because all that's conditional.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
It's really a feeling, but it's subjective. It's subjective.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
But when you look back and you know that when
it started the interview, I said, what if?

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
What if our point of life was really to advance
our souls?

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
For real?

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
And that you know, I'm not saying a career isn't
an important part of that of your legacy, but let's
not neglect that part of it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
And I feel like that's what.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
Having a family and raising Noah is like makes keeps
that in perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
For me, it's like, yeah, it's rat career.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
People can say what they say having opinions, but you know,
you writing a book and all this stuff, but that's
not what it's all about, you know what I mean,
that's what I would have saw. That's just so that's
just a part of life. And the real thing is
like progressing your soul. So you know, she she definitely
is someone who thinks in a similar way, you know,

(01:01:15):
but having a kid definitely makes it hard in a
lot of ways to just like a newborn, you know,
when they're younger. It definitely takes a lot of energy,
but it's rewarding though, you know, you get you get
so much from it as well.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
How important is it to have a partner that's on
a healing journey like you are, because has been open
about her mental health struggles as well.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Mm hmm, yeah, it is important to have, especially like
I want to really these questions I'm answering honestly too, I.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Hope so would you lie? You lie in other interviews?

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
I don't. I'm just thinking it through.

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
That's why it's kind of like sometimes I have to
like think about the all shood a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
It's like, it's always good to have someone that you
could talk to.

Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
And I'm not gonna sit up and say like we're
always on the same page, like we have a lot
of we have a lot of things to work out ourselves.
You know, I'm sure like everyone, but it does boil
down to the same it does boil down to the
same beliefs of like she she definitely is someone who

(01:02:28):
believes in like healing and believes in uh, you know,
a lot of meditation, a lot of putting and putting
it into the work, you know what I'm saying, and
not really so focused on like oh the charts or
this or that. It's like, that's one thing I really
appreciate about her is that she puts like how she

(01:02:51):
feels and where her heart is. And that's something that
I have been doing and striving to do as well,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Yeah, So it's some ortant to have that type of.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
Just that's a person like that that you can always
talk to and be aligned with.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
I know she's on tour, so who's taking care of
taking care of No?

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
She Noah's been with her for like the first leg
of the tour and yeah, so she only did that,
she did it. She was gone for a month, but yeah,
he was that was his first experience on the road. Yeah,
he's been in you know, they started in Detroit. Like
my mom and dad and brother are all spending time
with him as well.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
So it was it's been cool. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
I had a conversation with a Tank recently.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
It was very hard for me. It was very hard
for yeah, man, that ship.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
It was tough. She was way tougher than I thought.
Why didn't you go out for a couple of dates
on the rule man?

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
Because I had my own commitments that I had got
committed to previous. It was like, I wanted to be
there for the Detroit show, but I had to perform
at this.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
I committed.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
I committed to this Beverly Hills cop thing, and then
this festival in Chicago, and then these meetings and things
about finishing my book and album and all sorts of stuff,
and it's.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Just like life, life was life, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
You know, So unfortunately I couldn't just you know, be
there for that first part. But I'm definitely gonna like
make some shows and be there.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Yeah, I want to talk to you about just the
music shit with you because I had a conversation with
Tink on Breakfast Club recently and she's on tour with Jane,
and she was saying, for her, Jenea is the blueprint
for so many of the R and B you know girls.
I didn't know that. I knew people liked them, but
I didn't know she was looked at like like that.
So get that being your lady. Yeah, as an artist,
do you see her like that?

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
Yeah? I said this on like on the Coach Cella stage.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
I feel like she was when it comes to like, uh,
the n like the new arm, newer R and B.
I'm trying to figure out how to phrase that, but
like the twenty tens, you know, kind.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
Of like the Summer Walk.

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
Oh yeah, she's like she was like, she's like the
prototype to me of that, you know, of like that
type of style of music, the mixtapes, the you know.
And I've seen them meet Jane and say that to her.
I've seen Somemmer Walker say that to Janney. I've seen like,
I mean not that specifically, but in that in that
realm of things.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
But yeah, I feel like she is. She is definitely
that blueprint.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
And yeah, I've heard that quite a bit and I
think that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Yeah, well you two do another twenty eighty eight project.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
There has been music made. Yeah, but I don't want.

Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
To speak for her, you know what I'm saying. I
saw in an interview she said that you know that
the door is open there, and it is, but I'm
gonna just leave that it's definitely a possibility, and you
know there is some music made for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
What's stopping you off and getting married?

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Y'all already did one of little secret industry weddings.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
No, No, there has not been a secret industry marriage.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
I think that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
It's a little personal, you know what I mean. But
just like to be real with you, just like any
people who have dealt with love, We've had our ups
and downs, you know what I'm saying, And I think
it's still find in the right navigation through it all.
I don't know if, like if to me, marriage symbolizes

(01:06:47):
like the best relationship.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
You know, people be like, oh, you got to get
married to me?

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
I feel like having a relationship is first and foremost,
and like marriage is a byproduct of that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
I feel like a lot of people get the idea.

Speaker 3 (01:07:01):
Of like, oh, you have to get married, but then
it's like, to me, that's almost a fear based way
of thinking too, because then people be getting divorced.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
The divorce rate so fucking high.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
And I am someone who I'm not like discounting anything,
and I'm not saying that we aren't going to get married.
But what I'm saying is is that it's just I
would like to do a lot. I would like to
and I don't like putting our personal business out there
like that either, but there's a lot of work that

(01:07:34):
needs to be done.

Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
I feel like, in general.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
We'll take it for somebody who's been with their woman
for twenty six years, Right, it's always gonna be ups
and downs, period. The work's never gonna stop.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
Yeah, especially raised twenty six years.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
With twenty six years, got married in twenty fourteen. Oh
so you're married with.

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
It, it's gonna always be what took you sixteen years
to get married?

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
I don't know exactly. It's kind of like I really
don't know. I really truly honestly don't know. In my mind,
I felt like I wasn't where I needed to be,
right but I do. I did know this is the
person I want to be with for the rest of
my life. So my mentality is, hey, I already know
it's gonna be It's nothing. No relationship is gonna be
perfect all the time. So if you're thinking that you

(01:08:24):
gotta wait for this fairy tale, magical awakening where everything's
gonna be all good all the time, it's just like.

Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
No, not the way life is. No, no, no, I
don't think it's that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
I think that it's just seems so many different.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
The thing about Jane is that we're so many We
have so many relationships. It's like being peers, being in
a group together, parents, romantic all that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
It's like it's a crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
It's a crazy connection because no matter what, we're always
going to be tied together, no matter what. So I
think that that doesn't discount that, like she and me
both have to be on the same page, not to
say we aren't, but I feel like I can only

(01:09:17):
speak for myself that there needs to be like more
work done so we could keep going.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Because there's a lot of focus on.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
Our family, there's a lot of focus on careers and everything,
and that is something that I feel like has not
been the main focus.

Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
So y'all not necessarily together now, y'all just figuring it out?

Speaker 3 (01:09:43):
Oh no, no, look now look at you shot question. No,
I'm not saying that either. That's you know. What I'm
saying is is that it's not perfect and that it
needs to be work done.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
I'm glad we having this convoo because I was having
a conversation with to my young partners man, my man
really and he was he was talking about you, and
he said he felt like you never had an identity
people gravitate to. He also felt like you never had
a story that people could connect with. So even when
you wrap your heart out, you know, it might not

(01:10:16):
necessarily work because you lack those other things.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
So when you hear that, I'm gonna ask you getting
more thoughts on yourself when you hit people.

Speaker 3 (01:10:28):
I think that just comes from me not wanting to
share my you know how, Like some people are really
good at like putting themselves on social media, like Cardi
B is an example right here. Like you know, people
like like Cardi.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
Was there before music though, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
You know what I'm saying, And.

Speaker 3 (01:10:49):
That never was just natural to me sharing my story
so much. And I kind of live a life where
I always went against the grain when it came to
like even like from the traite, like being from detroiting,
like not rapping the way everyone else rapped her, like
not rapping about even the same shit everyone rap. You know.

(01:11:10):
I my stepbrother got locked up fifteen times, just like.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
I've seen people die. I've seen all sorts of shit.

Speaker 3 (01:11:19):
But it's like and I and I rap about that,
but I don't rap about it from a in a
like I'm not a gangster rapper period, you know, because
that's not what I wanted to portray. That's not how
I felt, even though I saw it, even though that
may have been authentic to me, I just that ain't
what I was trying to put out.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
In the universe type shit. So I respect anyone decision.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
But at the same time, you know, I think that
I'm honest, and I think that there's DNA and all
of the music that I put out, and maybe people
haven't listened to it all. But I've been honest with myself.
I put my heart out of my music and I've
kept it real and never like front it, you know,

(01:12:01):
never like faked it or like you know, period.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
I told you earlier that I love when you be
in your bag where you are rapping and I can
hear that you've been doing the work, like like the records,
like break the cycle of boundaries, which we're going to
get into, like those records. I'm like, Okay, that's Sean
is in his bag.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
When the other stuff is you just rapping because you're nice.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
Yeah, And like I can say that the other stuff
is like, I still want to do the other stuff too.
I'm just having fun, Like I just like like feeling
the energy of it. And but I also when I
feel the need of like getting a message off, I
attached that to it too, But sometimes I just like
having fun with it, you know. And people can say

(01:12:42):
take that out of how they want to take it.
But at least I did this ship my way, man.
At least I like kept it true to me, you know.
So I know people always got something to say, and
I welcome that. But at the same time, you know, shit,
I'm just said, I'm just doing my thing, Like I
don't really make music for it to be so picked apart.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
When I'm doing the song, I'll be like Oh, they're
gonna pick this apart like this and that and that
and that. I just be doing it and I just
be like, oh I like it, and then yeah, it
it goes how it goes.

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
But you know, you know, we talked about precision earlier
and you did that recorden you had food poison all right,
mm hm, and you said, I think where I lack
most is an artists consistency. I just haven't had the
energy to compete with enemies. Are y'all so called biggo three?
You want to expound on that bar a little bit more.

Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
Oh yeah, Just I mean, like I just the hunger
and like for competition kind of never took the presidents
over like me like working on myself and saving my
life because that thing. Remember I told you at that

(01:13:57):
time of my life, I have to like fall back
and get my shit to get Yeah. Absolutely, you know
what I'm saying. That's that's kind of what I meant
by that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
So the reason you didn't have the energy to compete
is because you was dealing with depression, Because you was
dealing with anxiety.

Speaker 3 (01:14:08):
I don't want to say depressing and anxiety. I was
just care more about myself since then to like think
about that or you know, but if I have to compete, bro,
I'm definitely down. Like I don't want to make it
seem like I'm not with that, but it's never really
been an honest, like blatant challenge that I felt needed

(01:14:32):
to be addressed, you know, like that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
Drink on Control. He leaked goll it down for everybody
on that though.

Speaker 3 (01:14:38):
But let's not forget who put control there, Bro, I'm
the one who put it out.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying. I was
the one who put the whole thing together.

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
Did you ever think you want to go change your
verse just to no?

Speaker 3 (01:14:48):
Okay, no, I didn't because I respected that he thought
of that's a name of people and do all that.
But let's not forget who put control out and whose
song it is like. I did that because I cared that.
I knew that I when I thought about it, when
I got the verse back, I'm like, man, that was

(01:15:09):
real interesting that he chose.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
That that perspective.

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):
And I wasn't about to be like, oh, you can't
do that like on my song. I was like, shit,
he either gonna get it off here or somewhere else.
It was like fuck, it, you know, let's run it.
But they didn't clear the song. You know what I'm
saying after it came out, and I took that bullet
for the culture.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
It didn't get clear.

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
What you mean, it didn't get clear.

Speaker 3 (01:15:32):
Like the reason it wasn't on my album is because
they didn't clear it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
He didn't clear Yeah, because of all the controversy and
drama that it a mass I assume.

Speaker 3 (01:15:42):
Or you know, it's already out though. That was what
I'm saying. I'm like, we agreed to do the song,
put it out. I'm like, put it on my album.
They're like, oh no, you know, you know, I never
really got a full explanation of why that didn't just
never got cleared, but it was and it wasn't like
I didn't clear it, And yeah, it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
Does it upset you that you aren't in the big
three combo? I think I am in the Big three? Convo?
What big three combo? The big thing?

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
Man? You're not in the what you mean?

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:16:14):
The combo is Drake, Kendrick and Cold. That's what's always been.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
And I hear my name around that a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:16:19):
So outside of the Big Three, I actually think it's
a Fantastic four because I throw future in that, okay,
but not because of lyrics, but just because of impact
over the last decade plus. And then I think after that,
that's when you talk about the Shawn's the wallets. That's why.

Speaker 3 (01:16:37):
That's why I go, well, there's only one me and
there's only one yl A. So okay, so the Big
three covers.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
So what's the question or do you ever be upset
that you're not in that combo well ship?

Speaker 3 (01:16:52):
I hear my fucking name of all the time when
people talk about this big three stuff, and like, believe
it when you said you're so whoever? Who do you
say you're bigger three? I don't just know your so
called bigger three?

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
Okay, so what people think.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Yeah, yeh yeah, we got you think. Yeah, that's why
I said you're so called bigger three.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
You know what a general consus.

Speaker 3 (01:17:11):
But I also understand that I have been very inconsistent
as an artist. My consistency is where I lack. I
say that in that too. It's like I haven't put
out I put out you know, I haven't put out
music in four years, bro essentially, you know what I mean.
I haven't put a project out so I can't expect
to be in in that conversation when I haven't been

(01:17:33):
consistently feeding the feeding hip hop and feeding fans and
feeding you know, And that's something that as an artist,
it hurts because I do need to do people who
do rock and ride for me, like I want to
give them reasons to be fans, and I think that
just comes with more consistency. But I think I'm at

(01:17:53):
a point in my life where I can produce more
but still keeping on God's time and in my time.
But you know, I think the way my life is going,
it's like that's one of my priorities is to like
put more music out with meaning too, though you know,
with still that feeling of okay, feeling good about it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
I'm sure y'all God works. Look what my next question was,
can you be upset by what you haven't gotten out
of rap if you know that you haven't been as
consistent as the.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
People in the Big Three, That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:18:25):
So it's like I'm not delusional, like I haven't been
putting our music, so that's one of the yeah. But
I do feel like when it comes to rapping abilities
that I have no limit on my rapping abilities. I
feel like I can keep improving and keep getting better,
and I can hang with anybody on any song, you know,

(01:18:46):
And I've proven that absolutely with all of them. Yeah,
and even like we control the next song we did,
I made sure I had a better verse on Holy
Key with and that's just you know, that wasn't That
was just because I was like, wait, holder, you know,
I gotta like make sure I'm repping my shit proper

(01:19:07):
right now.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
I remember, I told you when I started this interview,
I wanted people to get clarity on who Sean is.
And I think we're doing that because I want to
ask you, like, you know, that's why I keep bringing back,
bringing it back to your mental health journey, because how
do you think your mental health journey affected your positioning
in the game, whether whether it be how it impacted
your creativity, how people perceived you, how you carry yourself

(01:19:31):
because in this game, you still got to show up
a lot of times even when you don't want to.

Speaker 3 (01:19:35):
Yeah, and it's exhausting. It's exhausting having to show up.
What was the question again, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
How do you feel like your mental health journey affected
your positioning in the game.

Speaker 3 (01:19:53):
You know, how how did my mental health journey affect
my positioning pause in the game.

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
I think that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:07):
This game isn't about Those are two different things, right, So.

Speaker 2 (01:20:12):
It's not really a supportive thing.

Speaker 3 (01:20:15):
Like this industry in general isn't supportive of mental health
in the sense. What I mean by that is things
like consistency, things like staying hot, things like being you
know this and that necessarily don't always align with mental health,
you know what I'm saying. And that word mental health

(01:20:36):
got a stigma around it to me because it's like,
I don't sit here and be like my arm health
is good today.

Speaker 2 (01:20:42):
To me, it's health right.

Speaker 3 (01:20:44):
And I feel like when you think about a lot
of our industry, a lot of people hide as fucked.
That's how they deal with being having to be so
on all the time. You're highest shit, that's what That's
what what I was dealing with too. I had to
figure out a way to get by, to make it through.
So niggas be high, niggas be drunk, niggas be off,

(01:21:05):
lean off, pills, off all this ship right to be
able to function in this game because it's so exhausting
and taxing, and I'm straight up here raw dogging all
my emotions and ship. I'm like fighting this shit sober.
It's like, you know, are you are you sober or
what you do?

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
You do anything?

Speaker 1 (01:21:23):
I do edibles? I do edibles, you know, I like
I like my tequila, you know, blood blood, plus I
experience with plant based medicines. But for spiritual purposes, like
I'm been a atuasca. I've done sure wow, Oh yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
I want to hear about that. You ain't gonta talk
about it now. I've been shrooms too. I've done this
ship and I and I'm not saying I wouldn't do it,
But lately I've just been keeping like I've just been,
you know, keeping a clear mind, especially while I'm like
especially while I was working on this book, working on it,
finishing this album. Definitely, Like there's a song on the
album with me and Thundercat where I was off shrooms.

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
We were all off shrooms.

Speaker 3 (01:21:57):
Making the album, I mean, making the song Black Void.
But I think that, to answer your question, I think
that has nothing to do with my positioning in the game.

Speaker 2 (01:22:10):
To me, I think that those are two separate things.

Speaker 3 (01:22:13):
And I'm not going to use the excuse of mental
health on why I haven't been as consistent as I
could be as an artist or as I would like
to be.

Speaker 2 (01:22:22):
I think that's just how it happened.

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
But if you you know, dealing with about the depression
and you don't feel like going to the studio, you
have some personal Yeah, if you don't want to go
make disappearance because you know you're feeling a way, you
have that right to not do that either.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
But all those things do affect, you know, your career.

Speaker 3 (01:22:42):
Yeah, And I think that a lot of people take
hiatuses and ship you know.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
I think like.

Speaker 3 (01:22:51):
Some people don't, but some people do. And it's just
about you, you being accepting where you are with it,
you know. But I think that that just shows the
importance of putting yourself and to me, it's important to
put myself first. So yeah, I'm probably not as big
as an artist as I could be or all these things.

(01:23:14):
I don't blame my mental health for it though, you know.
In fact, I think that the best part of life
is being able to enjoy it, and that took a
lot of time from that took a lot of effort
for me to get there.

Speaker 2 (01:23:28):

Speaker 1 (01:23:29):
We got a few more questions on boundaries another record.
I really enjoy you say you got to set boundaries
because everybody wants a piece of me, and now you're
a piece of me.

Speaker 3 (01:23:38):
No, no, no, everyone, I gotta start saying everybody wants
a part of me, Now I'm a piece of me.

Speaker 2 (01:23:43):
Okay, it's still a bar.

Speaker 3 (01:23:45):
Yeah, I appreciate that, But dealing with the part of
me that people hardly see, you know, I gotta fall
back and just get organized. That's just how I remember
feeling that way, specifically.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
Literally at that point in my life life.

Speaker 3 (01:24:00):
And it just when I got that loop from Keiwayne, I.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
Just was pouring my soul out. I wasn't even thinking
about it, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
And I think it's important for people to recognize when
they're at that point in their life of like halving
a step back and get organized, because when you do,
you bringing your obviously your best self to the situation.
You're gonna be ten times more productive, ten times happier,
ten times or however many times. You know, you're just
gonna be a way better, more efficient version of yourself

(01:24:31):
if as long as you sharp and your heart is
in it, you know, And that's something that I didn't
know if my heart was always in music, but I
think I was overthinking it. It's not that it wasn't
always in music, it just was. I don't think I
was all the way aligned with my heart. At certain
times in my life, I was too much in my head.
I was overthinking things, or you know, trying to thinking

(01:24:55):
of thinking things analytically through when sometimes to me, thinking
is the lowest version of feeling something.

Speaker 2 (01:25:04):
Really, life is an intuitive thing.

Speaker 3 (01:25:07):
Is you feel through and overthinking it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
Is definitely required in a lot of situations.

Speaker 3 (01:25:13):
But I feel like when you're being creative and when
you're experiencing the bliss and joys of life is to feel.

Speaker 2 (01:25:22):
It more so than think about it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
You know, absolutely on the radar freestyle, yeah my guy
gave p you chose the rapper over Leah if your
girl lonely knew, you know, being a Detroit native, what
does what does the Leah me? Neil?

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
I mean, you know, people don't know Lea. It was
from Detroit. She was like the.

Speaker 3 (01:25:41):
Queen of Detroit at that point, you know, because there
was nobody in that nineties R and B. Really that
was like popping like a Leah. You know, all songs
with R Kelly. And you know, my stepbrother went to
school Leah, and I remember us picking him up from

(01:26:03):
school and being like, yo, they're calling Leah right there,
Like she was like still going to school when she
first started at DSA.

Speaker 2 (01:26:11):
So it was just cool to see that, you know
what I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:26:13):
Saying, and to see and you know, obviously it was
such a tragedy when she died, but she definitely was
like to me as a Detroit icon absolue, you know,
And that's why I wanted to rap on.

Speaker 2 (01:26:27):
I was rap.

Speaker 3 (01:26:27):
I've been rapping on Jay Dillerbe's too, and rapping on
just like things that I feel like are important to keep.

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
Like their legacy.

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
Yeah, you know what I mean. You referenced it earlier
when you talked about the line niggas looking for engagement
like they got their need been. I got better thing
to do to find somebody to beef with. Everybody thought
you was talking about Kendrick. My guy DJ Head said
he spoke to you and he said that you wasn't
talking about Kendrick. It was directed at another Gemini, So
I'm just assuming Kanye.

Speaker 3 (01:26:55):
Yeah, but that was the point I was saying, like
I got better things to do than to beef.

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):
Kanye, Yeah, got you, Yeah, but not to know.

Speaker 3 (01:27:04):
I'm just like talking my shit. Really, who that goes
for anyone? I mean, they could apply to anybody. Yeah,
that could apply to ya, Kendrick whoever. Like I got
better things to do than find someone to be with.
I didn't say I want to find someone to be with.
So to me, it's like, who the fuck matters? Who
the fuck I'm talking about? I said, I don't want it,

(01:27:25):
That's not where I'm going.

Speaker 1 (01:27:27):
I think the Internet was gassing it up because they wanted.

Speaker 3 (01:27:29):
To see They want to see it. They want to
see Kendrick go at somebody else.

Speaker 1 (01:27:33):
So if Kendrick and Sean is the next one, let's
line it up right. That's what I think was happening.

Speaker 2 (01:27:39):
I think people just for like.

Speaker 3 (01:27:43):
Just yeah, just looking for engagement, like I said, And
the thing people looking for engagement like they got their
need bent. It's like, I don't think people give a
fuck about especially these mediatis. They don't give a fuck
about me. They don't give a fuck about Kendrick neither.
They just looking for the That's it. You know, I'm
not gonna t say who I talk to but one

(01:28:04):
of my homies who does like hip hop journalism.

Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
He was like, Bro, I made the most money I ever.

Speaker 3 (01:28:10):
Made from this Drake and Kendrick Beef by just doing
reaction videos and like talking about it. Then I have
in ten years of like doing hip hop right, who's
that Rob Mark?

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
My god?

Speaker 1 (01:28:24):
Robbed by the way, when you say hip hop journalists,
there's only two, there's only a couple of my opinions,
So it's like, well, he is a real hip hop
is one of the best, best, one of the best,
he is, if not the best.

Speaker 2 (01:28:37):
Yeah, Rob Markman is like that guy. So yeah, it
was Rod Mark.

Speaker 3 (01:28:42):
Yeah, And he was just saying that, like it's not
about like people giving you know, man, I really be
feeling weird, like talking about speaking on behalf of other people.
That's like, I don't know why, get it natural to me,
but it's something we'd like, I get it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:58):
But yeah, yeah, who who is the rappers that got
matching tattoos? And why are you shooting sliminals at them?

Speaker 2 (01:29:04):
Subliminal? Why why is it a subliminal?

Speaker 1 (01:29:06):
I didn't know who you was talking about? Mad people
asking that question? Who's the rappers that got matching tattoos.

Speaker 2 (01:29:11):
So many rappers got matching tattoos.

Speaker 1 (01:29:13):
Why they ain't the same cruel or something.

Speaker 3 (01:29:15):
You could pull up the internet and be like rappers
with matching tattoos. There's been times where I've been in
the studios, like rappers that hated each other, and I'd
be like, yeah, niggas got a match tattoos, like on purpose,
be back cool.

Speaker 2 (01:29:26):
They they'll be back cool.

Speaker 1 (01:29:28):
Like on purpose matching tattoos, Like, let's got out to
the pall together.

Speaker 2 (01:29:30):
I don't know, bro, I'm not there, but what I'm
saying is I see it.

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
And I was just I wasn't necessarily throwing a subliminal
at people who do that. That's people got their own
lives that they own individuals. I was talking about the
industry in general. That's why I said, let me think,
what did I say right there? I said, Man, this
industry is terrible. I can't even vouch. I seen grown
men get matching tattoos for the cloud. I had train

(01:29:55):
wrecks and kick home records out of my house. I
seen eight figure checks that once hit my account. That's
showed me enough to feeling dog. It's not an amount
because I've been up and still hungry, like I'm down
for the count. So to me, I feel like, yeah,
I mean I pointed that out, but that's not me judging.
I'm just pointing out a fact. Yeah, so it's like, yeah,

(01:30:15):
it's a fact that do people yeah yeah, got matching
tattoos with whoever? I don't know, and like do Cutty
and all these type of people got matching tattoos or
other rappers and shit, I seen it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:29):
I don't think it's bad. I don't even think that's wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:30:31):
I'm just pointing that out as a fact that you
know that that's kind of like, is what it is?

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
He's looking at somebody who somebody was telling you not
to say something. No, oh da, I know why. I
saw Joe Buddy say something like this, And it's something
that people feel like it often feels like you don't
stand up for how you actually feel about things, and
people like you have these moments where you might throw
a jab but then you don't commit to it. Like
what he means by that I think he was talking about,

(01:31:00):
which is this is like he feels like, you know,
you thought he sneak This is the they ask who
you're talking about? It like, oh, I'm not talking about nobody,
and like just for me, sneak, this is though subliminals.
I call them subliminals, okay, And it's just like for me,
it's like if you want to be how.

Speaker 3 (01:31:15):
Many rappers be saying ship like Nigga stole my flow?
How many of you know be saying shit.

Speaker 1 (01:31:21):
Like that or like what everybody? All of them? All right?

Speaker 3 (01:31:24):
So why the fuck is this such a thing? Do
I got to say somebody name every time I'm just
talking my ship?

Speaker 1 (01:31:31):
Like do I I think they want to see you
just commit one time? Like like if you want to
be in these elite rapper conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:31:36):
I ever not committed? That's what I'm trying to figure out.
When have I ever not committed?

Speaker 2 (01:31:41):
You saw this?

Speaker 3 (01:31:42):
Nigga Kendrick send that text and said he you saw
the text? I don't even want to paraphrase it. So
when have I not stood up?

Speaker 2 (01:31:51):
Like when like anytime I got on a song like
I did it?

Speaker 3 (01:31:56):
Like well whoever Kendrick Drake, j Cole, who eminem jay
Z Like yay? Like I'm trying to figure out, like
and what context do you mean?

Speaker 2 (01:32:12):
Like on control?

Speaker 1 (01:32:14):
I don't know if it was control h. I just
think it's just in general.

Speaker 3 (01:32:17):
I think it was that leaked Kendrick verse that people
are like, yo, why didn't you say anything when he
said you're finally famous for who you dating?

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
Whoever boy or whatever he said? Now they know what confidence.

Speaker 3 (01:32:28):
But I just don't give a fuck because it's like
I talked to the nigga about it. I'm not a
cloud chasing that nigga. I'm much be solid. If it
was a real issue, if he would have texted him
been like, yeah, nigga, no, that's what it is, and
I would have been like, all right, for show, then
that's what it is, and I would have had to come.

Speaker 2 (01:32:48):
With my bars. But that's not the case. So if
it's not.

Speaker 3 (01:32:52):
If that's not the case, then how am I doing
anything but being solid?

Speaker 1 (01:32:55):
I think after people see this conversation, they'll understand the
context of why you have never said anything directly, and
they'll understand that maybe a lot of these subliminal that
they think are for one person are necessarily for that person, right,
But I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:33:12):
I'm also not ducking shit. I'm not trying to say
that they not for anyone. Anyone could get it. Bro
I'm like, that's a fact. Anyone can't get it. And
I'm not sitting here trying to talk tough. I'm just
saying like I'm never like, I don't know where it
is fucking narrative. I think it's the lack of me
not expressing or clearing or controlling my narrative that's on

(01:33:32):
me of like yeah, like, oh yeah, he said this
or that. But I've always just been solid enough to
come to the understanding that whatever I have between that person,
that's what it is, instead of like having to clarify
with everyone, but the fact that you brought it up
and we sitting down like I'm definitely down to talk

(01:33:54):
about it, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:33:55):
Whatever. So basically, if somebody really had an issue, you'd
be at the front door with Nobody's ever really.

Speaker 3 (01:34:03):
True if I thought it was worth it, Okay, only
if I thought.

Speaker 1 (01:34:07):
Like you know, if are there are there a list
of M seeds, the same way you wrote down a
list of labels you wanted to sign to are there a.

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
List of M seeds?

Speaker 1 (01:34:14):
You would be like, Okay, I got something for this person,
that person, that person because these three.

Speaker 2 (01:34:19):
Are worth Nah, because I don't think like that.

Speaker 3 (01:34:21):
But I mean, I'm not there's nothing that's off limits,
but you kind of also have to like I can't
just like take someone like a new artist or like
as serious as like one of my peers that I
came up with, you know what I'm saying, Like, I
feel like you at least have to sell one hundred
million records.

Speaker 1 (01:34:40):
So the Big three, anybody in the so called Big
three can get it.

Speaker 3 (01:34:45):
Yeah, of course they can get it, bro, But it's
like that's not my that's not the point of it.
That's not like, yeah, they can get it. Just like
if you asked any of them, they would be like, yeah,
he could get it if he you know what I'm saying,
if it was that's.

Speaker 1 (01:34:56):
What it was. Yeah, I'm not about to be like, no,
is it still a big three after what we just
saw this ship? Because Kendrick said it, there's no Big three.
It's just big mess hip hop. I don't know, changed
restructured so to speak, Big three or big me.

Speaker 3 (01:35:13):
I don't know, man Like to me, I never really
thought it was a big three. I kind of feel
like that was like a journalistic thing that got made up.

Speaker 2 (01:35:23):
I don't know who made that up.

Speaker 3 (01:35:25):
Joe, was it Elliott or I don't know someone.

Speaker 1 (01:35:30):
Yeah, I think it's always been It's always been like that.

Speaker 3 (01:35:32):
I think that music is more expansive than it's ever been.
So it's like it's so many people that can have
a great fan base that it's impossible for it to
just be a big three because you look at all
of these, Like you got people like even a Boogie
who's like he has his own lane and he's doing
arenas and all sorts of shit. And then you got

(01:35:52):
people like Eminem, who when I was talking to Paul Rosenberg,
he's literally the most popular he's ever been, like statistically.

Speaker 2 (01:36:02):
So it's like, is Eminem in the Big three?

Speaker 1 (01:36:06):
Like? Actually jay Z made up the Big three now
that I think about it, Jaz, who's the best of them,
sees Biggie jay Z and os oh okay, So it's
always been like that for different erarors, it's always got
to be like three. But to your point, it's never
been just three because Pot could easily have been in
at that time, Biggie j Z and Ox. You had
to put Pocket.

Speaker 2 (01:36:24):
Because Poc was a bigger artist, right, Yeah, absolutely, I
would don't know, man, I kind.

Speaker 3 (01:36:30):
Of think all that shit doesn't matter personally, and not
just because people be like, oh, he's not in it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:34):
He thinks it doesn't matter. I just think that.

Speaker 3 (01:36:38):
None of that's important. I think to just put out
your best music. It's Tyler the Creator in a situation
of the Big three? A Big three? Is it like
different sections of Big Three's A But my point being
is that I think I just want to focus on
the music and not worry about my place and if
I'm on a list or not.

Speaker 2 (01:36:57):
You know what I'm saying. I think that that's when.

Speaker 3 (01:37:00):
You start being too analytical with it and just just
do do your ship, do your do your art, do
your express yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:37:10):
You know what I mean. So to me, it's not
really a focus.

Speaker 1 (01:37:13):
But I got three more questions. You got a book
coming out, yeah, title Go Higher five Practices for Purpose Success,
and in a piece, what made you want to write
a self help book as opposed to a memoir? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:37:26):
Here, I have a copy of the book for you. Think.

Speaker 3 (01:37:28):
Hey, I like how you took your shoes off before
you walked in this bitch too.

Speaker 2 (01:37:34):
So this is a readers, This is like a I
need that.

Speaker 3 (01:37:38):
By the way, Yeah, advanced Reader's edition, so it might
be like a TYPEO or two because I.

Speaker 2 (01:37:42):
Read I read the book.

Speaker 3 (01:37:45):
I mean I wrote the book obviously, but I read
it through like three or four times. In this even
on this one, I'm like, yo, yeah, it's like it's
like a typo. What page is that? Anyway you'll see
But this isn't the final, final, final first it's been
swept through, but this is basically but I wanted to
give it to you. I need this last Reader's edition copy.

(01:38:06):
And what made me want to write a book? Well,
so I did an interview with Jay Sheddy and at
the end of it he was like, you got to
write a book, bro. He was like telling you, I've
never said that to anyone after an interview, but he
was like, there's so many people that come from where
you come from that didn't have those guys and angels

(01:38:26):
like your mom and these people that taught you to manifest,
that taught you to live, you know, how to how
to figure out, how to have faith, how to have
a foundation of consciousness, to get from point A to
point B, point C, point D. Like he was like,
you got to like map that out for people that
come from where you come from and that looked like
you that didn't have didn't have that right.

Speaker 2 (01:38:47):
So when he said that, I always wanted to do it.

Speaker 3 (01:38:51):
I always thought it was the thing I was going
to do later in my life, you know, like twenty
years down the line, you know. But I realized that,
you know, time is is relative, like you got to
get it, get it, get it out, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:39:03):
If you have the message. So I sat down started.

Speaker 3 (01:39:06):
It took a couple of years, you know what I'm saying,
But I do feel like it's a.

Speaker 2 (01:39:13):
It's a uh, what's the right word. It's it's a
book that.

Speaker 3 (01:39:18):
You could keep returning to, like some of my favorites,
like the Four Agreements, classic Seven Spiritual Laws, all of
these things that I've read and kind of like gathered
all these gems and applied what I learned from I
incorporated in the book, and I talk about how I incorporated.
I talk about a lot of parts in my career
and a lot of things that I've seen and just

(01:39:38):
like other experiences too.

Speaker 2 (01:39:41):
So it's really it's really.

Speaker 3 (01:39:43):
Helpful, I think, and I think that it's gonna improve
anyone who reads it, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:39:50):
I think there's something to take away.

Speaker 1 (01:39:51):
See I feel like that's the next level of hip hop.
Like when I look at books like this, when I
look look at albums like Mister Morale and the Big
Step of when I look at Chazy four, when I
hear the things that you're doing on your album to
break the cycle and boundaries, that's what the next fifty
years of hip hop looks like. Yeah, Like I heard
Will Smith say one time, you know, damn, fifty years

(01:40:12):
is a long childhood, right, Yeah, so imagine what the
adulthood of hip hop is gonna look like.

Speaker 3 (01:40:19):
Yeah, And that's and it's like that just that mindset
right of like progression, ownership.

Speaker 1 (01:40:26):
Balance, conversations about healing.

Speaker 2 (01:40:28):
Conversations about healing.

Speaker 3 (01:40:29):
You know, you talk to me about the stuff that
you've experienced with your dad.

Speaker 2 (01:40:35):

Speaker 3 (01:40:36):
I talked to before the interview about stuff I experienced
with my dad, and it's just like they lived a
completely different life than us. And I know, you got
four kids.

Speaker 2 (01:40:46):
I got one kid, And.

Speaker 3 (01:40:49):
Yeah, I wonder what the progression of the next generation
is going to be as far as just like, first
of all, this is for my son's generation especially, It's
like I wonder, like what it's like growing up with
these like iPhones and iPads and all this shit in
your face. Because I feel like my generation, our generation

(01:41:10):
per se, it was like the last one that like
didn't have that growing up, but.

Speaker 2 (01:41:16):
We saw it all come about, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:41:18):
So it's like, I don't know how that's going to
affect him for better or worse, And I don't know
how fast the technology is gonna keep progressing.

Speaker 2 (01:41:26):
So but my point being is that going back to
our fathers.

Speaker 3 (01:41:31):
You know, my dad from Monroe, Louisiana grew up in
probably one of the most racist setback places back then
when he grew up to where you get your ass
beat if you're on the wrong side of the train tracks.
And he grew up in an abusive household, and he
had a stuttering problem, and I really think that that
was tied to that, and he ended up working through
speech therapy and getting rid of his stutter, which I

(01:41:52):
really admire him for.

Speaker 2 (01:41:53):
I think he's a lot of people can't do that.

Speaker 3 (01:41:57):
But I think that the trauma that he has had
in his life has been something that I've had to
heal in my life.

Speaker 2 (01:42:04):
These things get passed down just.

Speaker 3 (01:42:06):
Like how oh like the way I wink, you know
my kid or you know my son, my daughter wink
like that, or like oh he's his smile, or you know,
all these traits that we pass on.

Speaker 2 (01:42:17):
Oh I have a mark like that or all these things.

Speaker 3 (01:42:20):
Right, it's like you pass on the trauma too, you
pass on the work you haven't done. Absolutely, so I
think that that's like the fact that we are being
more conscious of that. That's the importance to working on you.
So that's something I do talk about in my book too.
But that's the importance not just and for the people
who have kids. It's like, oh, I don't have to
work on myself. No, it's like when you see how
interconnected the whole planet is, how we all connected, even

(01:42:42):
when you on the freeway, Like when we leave here
and we go on the freeway, we see we're gonna
see like everyone working and like being in synchronization. And
that's one of the most basic levels of realizing that
we're all really connected and aligned in a sense. So
when you do work on yourself, it's a chain reaction
that spreads way more than you could you know, to

(01:43:03):
me at least that you could imagine and That's that's
what I believe.

Speaker 1 (01:43:07):
Real how has the work and finally recognizing your own
value influenced the way you currently navigate your career versus
how you did in the past.

Speaker 3 (01:43:17):
It kind of just is a constant checking with myself
and I kind of just have to like reaffirm and
like have to like say what I'm comfortable with when
I'm not comfortable with what I want to do, what
I don't want to do, and really just be clear
about the artists you want to be or what you
want to put out there.

Speaker 2 (01:43:36):
And I don't know if that means, Like.

Speaker 3 (01:43:41):
I know that I'm the most successful I've ever been,
and when I say successful, it's like the most happy
I've ever been when it comes to like being an artist,
and that's what success is.

Speaker 2 (01:43:52):
That's what success is.

Speaker 1 (01:43:53):
Happiness.

Speaker 3 (01:43:53):
Yeah, And I do be stressed out, like I said,
when we start O, I do be feeling overwhelmed because
I do try and do all I can, but you know,
that is what it is. But I do feel like,
you know, the career I do put in perspective my
career and like what I'm comfortable is and what I'm

(01:44:14):
not as opposed to like just doing everything.

Speaker 1 (01:44:17):
Like I used to my last question for people that's
watching listening, how do you know when you've gotten to
a point of clarity?

Speaker 3 (01:44:30):
How do you know you got into a point of clarity?
Is man, that's a great feeling. It's a feeling of
inspiration and it's a feeling of.

Speaker 2 (01:44:49):
I don't know. To me, I feel like I feel unstoppable.

Speaker 3 (01:44:53):
I feel like anything that's all my heart is possible,
and I don't always feel like that.

Speaker 2 (01:44:58):
Clarity isn't something that that is a constant thing.

Speaker 3 (01:45:01):
It's something that that's why when I made those grabs
for the album Better Me than You, it's like it's
a constant journey that goes from pressure to clarity, to
focus to happiness, because you know, you get the pressure
or I'm sorry, pressure, focused, clarity, happiness. You get the
pressure and you get that pressure ring then you focus

(01:45:22):
and then you're able to find some clarity and that
is and then you find that happiness, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:45:26):
So to me, when I'm in the state of clarity.

Speaker 3 (01:45:30):
I feel all as possible, I feel all is welcomed,
and I feel that it's like an endless it's like
a it's like an endless possibility is a field of
infinite opportunities, you know what I mean, And that's that's

(01:45:51):
an exciting feeling when I'm thinking of the fact you
asking that has kind of like giving me that feeling.
Now I've been like I locked onto that vibrationally just
now it's like an awesome feeling.

Speaker 2 (01:46:02):
So I appreciate you asking that question.

Speaker 1 (01:46:04):
Thank you for your time. My brother better me than you,
So out what August.

Speaker 3 (01:46:09):
Well, I just pushed the motherfucker dus its to be
August night, but I'm gonna do it later on in August.
It's just the The only reason I pushed it back
is cause I'm like DJ Premiere hit me like, yo,
these scratches on this song aren't loud enough, and you know,
stuff like that, to where I'm like, look, just get
the ship right all the way. You know, I'm not

(01:46:30):
about to be trying to replace stuff when it's out
and stuff. Just even if it's just a couple of weeks, like,
just get it all the way locked in mixes right,
masters right, mixed by Ali, Me and Ali going back
and forth on some mixes, not all the way the
masters now, so you know it's probably gonna be a
couple of weeks after, but.

Speaker 2 (01:46:50):
It's all good.

Speaker 1 (01:46:51):
My brother, Thank you, great conversation, appreciate your yeah,

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Charlamagne Tha God

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