With 10+ million albums sold, 5 million concert tickets, fans in 40+ countries and a nearly 30 year career, Jon has spent decades turning real life into music.
We go deep on his new album Forever Now and the shadow self behind it, identity, transformation, divorcing ourselves from who we thought we were, and becoming who we’re truly meant to be.
We talk the butterfly effect, the ripple of one decision, the energy of thousands of people singing your songs back to you, and what it all looks like beyond the stage as a husband, father and artist.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey!
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Woo!
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Hey!
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Woo! Caroline, she's a queen of talking Hey, what's on
your mind?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
She's getting real, not afraid to fail Take her soul to.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Soul, just let her flow No one can do it
quite like Caroline It's time for.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Caroline Well, what a thrill to be here with John Foreman,
the lead singer of the legendary band Switchfoot.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
What's up?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hello. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
And you're on tour right now because you said you
are currently in Birmingham?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
We're in Birmingham, Alabama. Birmingham.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
How long are you on tour?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
We have 43, 46 shows. And it will bring us
to Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
So do you have a rhythm with your tour life?
Because I'm married to an artist as well. And I
don't know if you know them.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
You're on tour. You sometimes tour with Lit, Jeremy Popov, right?
From the band Lit?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Okay. Well, he's our best friend. He's the godfather to
my child. My husband is Michael Hobby from a band,
A Thousand Horses. Y'all may have crossed paths out there
in the world. Yeah. I'm married to a musician, and
so I just know touring is a nonstop thing.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
At your point in your career, you've been doing this
now for, what, 30 years? Is that right? Like 10
million albums plus sold. I mean, you've just exploded. I mean,
everyone loves.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Numbers and numbers and things, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
And awards and accolades and all the stuff. But you've
been touring for like 30 years, right?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yes. I mean, it sounds... it sounds like a lie
because that seems like such a long time, but yes.
But it's also like, on the other hand, it feels
like I've been doing it my entire adult life, which
is also true. We basically, our first tour was when my,
(02:08):
our record came out a couple of days after my
brother graduated from high school and we went to Europe
like that, that week. And that was our first tour.
And we, yeah, that's kind of like, since then I've,
I've since dropped out of college and, um, that has
(02:28):
become kind of the education, you know, along the way,
trying to figure out, um, how to make sure promoters
pay you. And, you know, like there's so many things
that you learn along the way.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Um, hard lessons along the way, right?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Hard lessons, but beautiful. Um, I think Yeah, there's so
many things that can be put under the heading of education.
And I think, you know, math, you know, there's certainly
life skills that you can learn anywhere. But I actually
(03:06):
loved college. I loved learning. I got good grades. But
this was kind of back in the day when the teacher,
the professor would say, hey, you need to be here
for the test. And there was no like internet option
to say i'm gonna be in birmingham alabama can i
take the test online.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well my question too is how have you maintained your
sanity in your life just to you know just want
to hit all the big points how do you maintain
your sanity and your life and because you have a
family life as well right yes how do you maintain.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
That yeah that's a good question um So I think
every season brings its own challenges. And I think many
times when we look at a tree, we see what's
on top of the surface of the soil. And, and
(04:06):
I can find a lot that, that I can, you know,
look to the branches and the leaves and the yearning
and the reaching upwards. And I feel like I can
relate to that. There's a lot of, that, that happens,
especially early on as a band, you know, you want
to be noticed, you want to be heard, you want
(04:26):
to be, um, get your music out there. I think
more and more, I'm realizing that what happens underneath the
surface is way more important than the stuff that happens on,
on the top that you can see. Um, and so
I think digging into the soil, um, the bones of failure,
(04:48):
the the death of dreams, the ghosts of all that
we were and are no longer.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
You're so poetic, John. It sounds like a song, the
way you were just talking.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
No, that's, I mean, I do, that's where my head's
at as far as sanity and rhythm and where to
invest myself. Because I think that those are the things
that will sustain me through winds and through droughts.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
It's really a wild one out there.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I really have been, because you guys started off faith-based
and you still are, right? That's like the centerpiece of
you guys, but I feel like you are so mainstream too.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
How do you do that?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I don't think that there is a human who is
not faith-based.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
You don't think so? People deny it all the time.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I think that if you got up in the morning
and didn't kill yourself, even if you do kill yourself,
that's acting on a worldview. Every action is a faith-based initiative.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Okay, wait, break that down more. I like this, and
I feel like I already believe it, but I need
more details.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Well, like, you put your ear pods in because you
believed you could hear through them. You chose to put
both feet out of bed this morning and get up
because you thought that there was something that today had
to offer. This is the stuff, again, under the soil that, like,
(06:15):
it kind of goes without saying, but um, yeah, there's
no one that's outside of the weird religious belief systems
that we all come to the world with, whether it's, um,
you know, the idea, the belief that there's an invisible
line that separates millions of people on one side and
(06:36):
millions of people on another.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Like, what do you mean? Oh, like politics?
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Like we've got, we've got a, a, an entire nation
that separated from the North and the South and like
the idea that these pieces of paper will pay for things.
That's a, that's a faith based initiative, you know?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
So like, this is very profound. You're quite the philosopher.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I don't know about that, but I, I do have
a lot of time to think out here on the road.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I mean, I, I grew up on, you know, whether
it's rage or beastie boys or, you know, bad religion and, um, propaganda,
like whoever, um, op Ivy, these were bands that, that
really sang about things that, that they would invest themselves in. Um, I,
(07:24):
I feel like all of my favorite music has a deep,
deep rooted sense of self soul identity. Um, you know, so,
and like, um, Greg from bad religion, um, He is
a naturalist. He calls that his belief system. Darwinism, naturalism,
(07:48):
survival of the fittest. That is a belief system. So like,
I feel like I, and I really admire him within
the intellectual university milieu to adopt that stance to say, no,
it's a belief. It is, it is the way I'm
going to live my life. And, but yeah, that's, that's
why I, For me, I think then you come to
(08:13):
selling things. So I think when it comes to a
label you put on music, that's usually a box you
put something in so you can sell it. And so
I'm reticent to put our music into any box because
I feel like it's done for commercial purposes rather than
like the integrity of the art.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
You know what I was thinking about today during yoga?
And I mean, I'm just gonna throw this out there.
If you think this is too far out, I'll definitely
pivot from it.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
So I've already gone too far out.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Well, I figured in my head, I was like, he
might be the one to talk to this about because.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
This is, I was sitting there weird enough.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
You don't meet these people every day. And when you do,
you got to take advantage of the conversation. So I
was thinking in yoga, cause I've like.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Been a little bit fearful of the world lately.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
And I've like, You know, whoever that dude was that
came on and was like, AI is going to kill
us all in 10 years and all that. And so
then I was stressing out about it because I was like, oh, no,
we're going to die in 10 years. And my daughter's seven. And,
you know, we're all just going to blow up in
a nuclear attack and it's just over because I tend
to go quickly, very dramatic.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
And then I have to pull myself out of it.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
But then I was thinking in yoga, I was like,
what if actually we are all just in this big
ascension process right now? And AI is universal consciousness because
the big problem with AI is that we can't, there's
no boundary.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
So it kind of, you tell it to do one thing.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
And it kind of just goes rogue until it accomplishes
that thing without any boundaries.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
But if we can.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Harness it, then maybe this is universal consciousness. And if
it is used for good, then if we're all plugging
into this good universal consciousness, maybe that is a good
thing ultimately.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
I was like, it could be positive.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
It could be.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
It could be. Why not go that way instead of
the other way?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
I don't know. Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Don't know enough about AI to weigh in.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I'm a total idiot. I'm like a total idiot.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
All the ones that the people that do are They
say things that terrify me. I know. I'm with you
on that one where I'm like, oh, man. But then again,
I kind of go with all of these things, the fears.
I think for me, I think it has very little
to do with my actual life. You know, I can
(10:39):
be so afraid. Like, have you heard the expression? It's
this comedian. He's like. I don't know what people are
talking about when they say that worrying doesn't do anything,
doesn't work. He's like, worrying absolutely works. Everything I worry
about doesn't actually happen.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Oh, so put on your worry list what you don't
want to happen.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah, worry about it for a couple hours and it's
never going to happen.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
That's a good point.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, I'm trying to surrender even my terror of AI.
And if that helps you surrender, then maybe that's.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
The way forward.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, well, I think I'm at that place too.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
And this brings me back to faith, which I think
brings me ultimately back to like your music.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
And I come back to these kind of things.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I feel like my faith has gotten stronger than it
ever has because I literally have no other option. You know,
like I've tried as a human being who has been
very curious to understand life and I've wanted to figure
things out on my own and I've gone crazy. on
all my own journeys, different roads to uncover the mysteries
(11:44):
of life. But what I have come back to now
is like, you have to have some sort.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Of faith, like you said, or else like it's, especially now,
what are we doing? I personally can't make it.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And then just surrendering it over and aligning with kind
of what you were saying, just like doing my life,
following my what's meant for me, then I can just
sort of keep my blinders on and where I'm called
to serve with my life, do that. But then you
just kind of can't worry about the whole rest of
the world because it's too overwhelming, in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I think back to
the idea that like you, you have humans, you know,
let's say 3000 years ago, 5000, however many thousand you
want to go back. And what in our existence would
they would they relate to? Nothing, right? Like this conversation
(12:36):
having on screens would be impossible, like cars, electricity, even
what I do on stage, this loud electric music, it'd
be absurd and strange. And yeah, I think of that,
what that does to the nervous system of having access
to all the information that we have access to. And
(12:57):
I do think that there's, Something maybe what I'm hearing
you say, I can definitely relate to kind of grounding,
meditating and and reminding myself of my own limitations and
and finding myself there so that I can love others,
you know, from that place.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
So when you're on stage, this is a question I
really actually want to know. when you're on stage and
there's all these people there and they like genuinely love you,
like love you. Like when someone is an artist like yourself,
who is a beloved artist, like you are loved. They
have incorporated you into their life. You have been a
part of their families, like traditions and experiences.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Like, you know, I'm sure you've been, your music.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Has been in the room when people got married, when
they've had babies, when they've people, people have passed away
at big events. You know, it's like, You create this
music and then it goes into the world and you
have had the, your vibration and ripple effect has hit
so many people in a positive way.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
How does that feel? Do you feel that connection to
all these people?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
How does it feel knowing that your energy and what
you're creating is truly shifting people and truly impacting their life?
Does that feel Do you feel like, is it overwhelming
or is it just like, this is just who you are?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
This is who you were made to be.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Like, how do you handle all that energy of people
putting it back on you?
Speaker 3 (14:26):
You know, cause it's coming back to you as well.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah. I, that's so funny. I don't have any, like,
you'd think that I would have a, like, well, here's
what you do. A solution. I have none of that.
I do. I'm so honored when people use our song
or connect with our song. Have you heard of, um,
resonant frequencies?
Speaker 3 (14:49):
No, but I want to.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Okay. So in physics, every object with matter has a
resonant frequency that it will vibrate at. So the particular
tension of the string and the diameter of the string,
when you pluck it, it makes a certain note, right?
With overtones. If you sing that same note near the string,
(15:12):
the string will just vibrate on its own because the waves.
Travel from your mouth through the air and they begin
to vibrate the string, right? That's called sympathetic resonance. And
I think that ideas have sympathetic resonance as well. Like
when somebody says something that moves you on the inside,
(15:35):
it feels like it's sympathetically resonating something within you. You're moved,
you know? I think the way that I handle any
form of like other people's projections on me on stage
I'm very aware I am just the banks of the river,
that something greater than me is passing, that I am
(15:58):
trying to get out of the way of rather than
trying to pretend is me.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Really? Have you always been that way or did you
learn that?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I think it's very dangerous to think that you matter
because of something that you wrote or any of those
things because I've done that. I think.
Finding your worth and your identity in your, in your
work is not a new thing. We all do it,
but it's a dangerous game because then when people don't
(16:28):
find what you're doing, you know, to be resonating with them,
then suddenly you don't matter anymore. So I've been trying,
especially recently to find again, roots that, dig deeper than that. And,
you know, every night that is one of my prayers
is that, you know, the same thing that moves me
(16:53):
to play music would move the people in the room,
you know? And that's something that feels mystical, magical, spiritual,
beyond me, transcending me. And that's what I'm hoping happens.
Because if it's just me and six strings on a guitar,
that's not really what I'm interested in either.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
So do you set an intention before you go out there?
Is that like, is that something you do consciously?
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Um, yeah, there, there were three things. So we, two
nights ago we played, it wasn't Richmond. Where was it? Um, yeah.
So two nights ago we played and I, and that
was my intention was like, okay, That was the main
thing is, you know, and, and yeah, I grew up
(17:51):
in the church. My dad's a pastor and I grew
up in and around spiritual things. And I think, you know,
when you're a kid, you take it for granted that
that's just what everyone knows. But I do feel like
a strong connection with, with the spiritual world and an
(18:12):
awareness there. And, I, for years, kind of fought it.
You know, I went to UCSD, which is, I wanted
to be a doctor, medical student, and, you know, the
world of matter. I was an economics major. I was like, okay, econ,
(18:34):
I want to be involved and completely educated.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
So this is why you loved college.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I loved it, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
But you didn't finish.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, but I think that that marriage of like, Actually
coming back to the roots of the spiritual world that
I came from is crucial. And that's a lot of
times negated by the material world is why songs matter.
But I keep coming back to them because they change
(19:04):
me on more fundamental levels than like the American dollar
ever could.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
I love that. So you'll have a new album. It's
the first one you've had in five years, right?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yes how did this how was it time how did
you know it was time and i'm obsessed with the
the concepts of so many of them but especially the
two twins yeah that's a great song oh thank you
that's so cool and the butterfly flag and breaking up
again like i think i feel like you're really exploring
(19:37):
these topics because i um the two twins It's so
cool because what?
Speaker 3 (19:42):
It's like you think, what if that's the.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Whole world is you're in that, you know, before you're
born with your twin, you're.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
A warm little, you're a warm little cocoon.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
And then you don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
That is your whole world.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
That's your whole world.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah. So tell me more about how you came up,
put that into the song because that's so it's also relative,
you know?
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Um, you know, it's really funny. So apparently I love Henry,
Henry Nowen. He's, uh, author that means a lot to
me and i had i was invited to play a
couple songs at uh experience where he was his writing
and his work were at the center of it and
um and unbeknownst to me that was a story that
(20:25):
he had either written or had passed on famously talked
about and i come back from this retreat and our
drummer chad's like oh do you play two twins And
I'm like, no. He's like, why not? He's like, I
don't know. He's like, that was Henry Nowen's thing. And
(20:45):
so the point being, I had my one opportunity to
play the perfect song that fit this one moment. And yeah,
the story came to me. A friend of a friend
gave it. We were talking late one night, and that
story came out. But apparently, I think Henry Nowen is
known to have told it kind of like as a parable.
(21:09):
But I love the idea that we are all blind
to our blind spot. And I think that that song
reveals it with humor.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
And then what about breaking up again? Because that's with yourself.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I feel like I am fully divorcing myself. Like I
am done with this past version of myself. I'm like,
we are broken up forever, past self.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Never, ever, ever.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Ever getting back together again. I'm done. Like ever.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah. Yeah. So this whole album....
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Forever Now.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Forever Now is the juxtaposition of the two states of
being that humans are always in. Which is? We are always,
we're never in the future or the past. We cannot
exist in those states. As much as our head might,
you know, fear AI in the future or regret things
we've done in the past, we are here right now.
(22:01):
You and me, Caroline. Right here.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Here it is.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
And....
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yet within us is like written upon us is eternity.
This beautiful idea that we are connected with something bigger
than ourselves, something bigger than, you know, the moment and
our kind of animal urges, whatever it is, justice, love, beauty, truth.
(22:29):
So the- Power, control. Yes, yes. The album is an
attempt to find itself right at the crossroads of forever now.
And it takes place on the last day of this
character's life.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Oh! Benjamin?
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Benjamin Crowe is the name of this character.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Okay, I get it now.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
And we don't talk about it. We haven't really talked
about it.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
It's his life story in an album. Is Benjamin Crowe,
did you make him up?
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, so he is... Who is he?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I need to know about this dude. Okay, I'll know
about it. This is his journey.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I'm kind of figuring out who is this character as well,
but he is absolutely me.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
This is you? Like an alter ego or just you?
Your shadow self. Ooh, this is a.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Okay, I just got very much more interested in this album,
which is already so good.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
So you are writing about your shadow self here.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
But I didn't know it. We wrote the whole record
and kind of it was after the fact. So the
first song, I knew that the first song is, is
the alarm clock for his last day on the planet
on earth. And then the last song is the last
few moments of his life. So it's, it's chronic. It's
(23:51):
like the chronological chronologically following his last day on the planet.
And so my, my friends like, Hey, You should tell
us more about this guy. And so I wrote literally
wrote like chapters about this guy, Benjamin Crowe. And in
doing so, I realized, oh, my gosh, he's me. And
(24:13):
there's a lot there. And someday the book might come out.
But that's what the movie. I mean, right. Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Actually, you know, what you could do is each music
video could just be another chapter to I mean, this
is new. I'm sure you've already thought of this like
another chapter for, you know, the whole story of Benjamin Crowe.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Well, maybe after this is finished, I can send you
off the record the new music video for the butterfly effect.
Because this is like you get to meet Benjamin Crowe.
You see his story a little bit.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
That's exciting. Oh, okay. So you always write personal stuff,
but is this like deeply personal?
Speaker 1 (24:53):
This is deeply personal stuff. in a way that I
didn't intend it to be. It felt like I was
writing about other things, and then it came back around
kind of in an uncomfortable way. I thought I was
doing something else out there, and then the mirror turned
(25:15):
on me. But I love this album. I really am
proud of it, and it's deeply autobiographical unintentionally.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Do you feel like you were able to release all
of this once you wrote it?
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Release? Maybe embrace.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Embrace. Integrate. Maybe integrate. Integrate.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Because I do feel like owning it is a part
of being able to move forward, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
And speaking it out loud, too.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Like, I've realized that, like, even if it's in song
or whatever, you don't have to directly, like, say the thing,
but it's like when you get all that out of
your body and share it in a way that helps others,
then it's like you've alchemized it, you know?
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah. And I do think that there's something beautiful. Like
it came from a really dark season and I wasn't
sure what it would feel like singing these songs in
front of people because that expression of song, it's a
strange thing. That's the reason why I don't like to
sing depressed songs is because it makes me depressed. Like
(26:19):
I channel that, right? Like I love singing like ABC
boys cover or two or something, you know, but like,
if that was my entire, like singing sabotage and then rage.
And then I think that there's something deeply cathartic, but
I don't know that I could do it every night.
I like music is a vehicle to get somewhere else.
(26:41):
And so I didn't know how to, how I would
feel about singing the darker songs. But I do feel
like it has been a revelatory experience juxtaposed with a
lot of the lighter things that we sing every night.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Well, and you know, it's kind of like piecing together
your full picture. You know, like when you look back
on your life at the end of it all and
you look at your work, it's like the whole mosaic
of the whole human.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
You know, like you need this piece to the mosaic.
You can't just have the....
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Presentation the representative version that's been you know the healed
version you have to show what was needing to be
healed you know yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
No and that that has been the case um a
phrase you know there is no resurrection without death you
know so to to embrace both you know and again
like the tree reaching up but also you gotta you
gotta dig down into the crap you know yeah fertilizer.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I'm just coming out of like a seven year crap season.
And so I feel, I feel this and I'm like,
but you know what? Always in retrospect, when you look back,
it's like, okay, that was worth it.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
It was awful. It felt like it was gonna last forever,
but then you, it's like a blink of eye. It's over,
you know, once you've like moved through it.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yeah. And metabolizing it and really using like, cause otherwise you,
I think the tendency for me is to distract and
deflect and, and, you know, uh, find some other thing
to occupy my attention but i've been trying to really
be present to the pain and let it be used
(28:17):
for something greater.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Well good job way to go.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Thank you thanks for sharing we're all going to benefit
from it so appreciate it um okay do you have
a favorite song you have an out you have a
single out now is that your favorite song or what's
your favorite.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
My on the record yeah i think Favorite song on
the record is the butterfly effect. I really love that one.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Okay. Why do you love that one the most? And
I'm trying to remember the name of the one that
you're single right now.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
The beautiful, I think is beautiful. Life is one of
the singles. Absolution.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Absolution. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah. So, um, I think the reason why I like
the butterfly effect is because it feels, um, so the
story behind the butterfly effect. There is this phenomenon that
a lot of people in the medical field have noticed
where brain activity continues for seven minutes or so after
(29:16):
the heartbeat stops. And the theories are that that is
when your life flashes in front of your eyes or
you might be transitioning from this life to the next.
A lot of people that have near-death experiences note that
they These these types of things have happened to them
(29:38):
and so that was one of the inspirations for the
butterfly effect the idea that what if in that last
seven minutes you wrote a song that kind of talks
tells that story and so that's that's where the butterfly
effect came into play was like what would that seven
(30:00):
minutes look like? And so I, when the song was
finished and done being recorded, I was reminded that I
sang on a Reliant K record years ago. There's a
song called Deathbed. And so I asked my friend Matt,
who sings in Reliant K, I said, I think you
(30:21):
need to return the favor and sing on our song
that finishes our record. That's called The Butterfly Effect, a
similar theme. And so this, for me, it's a bookend
for the album, but of so much of my life
and the life of Benjamin Crowe. So that, yeah, I
love so many layers of this song, The Butterfly Effect.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
That's awesome. This is exciting. It is.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
It's so fun. Thank you for being excited with me.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
I'm totally excited. I mean, I am like so immersed
in music in general. Like I said, I'm married to
a musician.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
I was a musician. I live in Nashville. I work
in the music industry. Like I am so jaded by music.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Like literally, I feel sometimes I like have to check myself.
I'm like, come on, like be excited about music again.
You know, like you love music. Like don't become old
and hardened.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
And hearing this, you.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Talk about it. Amen. I'm with whoever that is. I'm
with that person.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
But I get so frustrated.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Well, I love music and it deeply moves me, but
I get so like, just hardened by like how fast
fashion it is and like fast food it is. And like,
it's all just for, you know, the, the bigger money
machine ultimately. And then, you know, all the corruption and
all of it. And so, but then I'm like, but
(31:42):
that's not the truth. Like there is still really meaningful difference.
deeply connected music being written but it's just like it's
harder to find but it's still out there so then
when you find it you're like okay you can like
lock in a little bit because you're like i know
that like i this is this is like feeding my
soul not just like some sort of machine that i'm
(32:03):
being you know taking advantage of here because i just
yeah it's just been so it's it's just been such
an evolution with how music has changed so much i
feel like and i'm sure you've seen that Anyway, a
(32:27):
thing that I really struggle with with my musical journey
and listening to music and artists is, and also not
just that, but like the higher celebrity field and influential
people in general is I used to feel like I
knew who the bad guys were and who the good
guys were. And like, it was so clear. And now
I'm like, everything is such a blur. The good guys
(32:48):
are the bad guys and the bad guys are the
good guys. And people will tell you one thing and
then it's another thing. And people who you thought like
you could align with totally like flip. And then there's
like this dark, you know, scary version that you don't
want anything to do with and they don't have a
good heart ultimately, or they do, but they've just gotten
so consumed.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
It's like, you just get lost out there. And I'm like,
I don't want to listen to any of it. It's
all terrible.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It's like impacting my soul negatively, but that's why I'm
excited to hear your journey because I feel like this
is a true soul's journey right here. Like you're really
looking for the light in this.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
I mean, music I've, so that was a big ramble.
Sorry about that.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
No, I love it. Hey, I've got questions about a
lot of that. So first of all, do you have
a record player? Yeah. Okay. So do you find that
the medium with which you listen to music in and
on affects the way that you interface with it? Okay.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
I haven't thought about that, but yes.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
And like, yeah. So when I get my wife, if
she comes home and I've just got Elliot Smith on
the record player, she knows it's a really bad day.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Why Elliot Smith? He does something to you?
Speaker 1 (34:01):
He's my comfort zone, but it feels like it matches
the energy that I've got. You know, like when I'm like, okay,
I need to come back. I can put on Miles
Davis kind of blue and then I'm like, okay, I'm
coming back up. But like, yeah, so I do feel like,
you know, music. Yeah, it can be fast food kind
(34:25):
of disposable food. pop culture or it can we can
like i think the physical medium of a record is
is so beautiful because you're forced to engage with it
in the long form that it was meant to be
consumed in or at that point you know who meant
is a tricky word but you know what i'm saying.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah i do well i just am excited for this
whole next chapter for you guys.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
John Thank you for joining me. What album is your...
If your husband comes home and you're listening to a record,
what's the one that he's like, oh man, it's been
a bad day?
Speaker 3 (35:07):
I am an emotional... Okay, I'm not going to say
this about myself. I... done a lot of therapy here, John,
so I'm going to get the correct words for myself.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
I have a tendency to be very.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Dramatic and emotional.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Like when I get wrapped up in feelings, I feel
like it's like just all consuming and it's.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Like the end of the world.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
And I've had to work on realizing that.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
It's literally all going to be okay. I have to
just like catch my breath.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
But I feel like for a long time, my healing
process was Bob Marley, like just listening to reggae music.
It really, I probably went through a.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Seven year period when I just only listened.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
To reggae because it felt, especially Bob Marley in general,
because it made me just feel like, and I even
got a tattoo.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Three little birds on my arm.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
I was like, I need a reminder. um, that life
is going to be like sometimes, okay. So for this tattoo,
it's like right here, when you're sitting down, it's like,
sometimes you're sitting and you're waiting and it's just like,
life is kind of still, and you don't know what's
happening or what to do.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Sometimes you're flying and you're soaring and it's great.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
And you've got the view from the top. And then
sometimes you're literally crashing. And so it's just like, it's
a constant circle. And then Bob Marley's three little birds.
And so I just have to always remind myself that
if I keep my heart correct, like if I have
to stay in touch with my heart, I have to
keep my heart correct, keep my intentions correct, and then
just try not to panic and.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Just kind of let it be, you know? So I
feel like reggae really calms my soul.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
I also love being on the island, like just when
you're on the beach, you know, especially like in the Bahamas,
it's just like, I.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Feel as serious as I'm making it. There's a million
ways to live your life. Like it's all going to
be okay.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Like whatever I'm thinking about is really not, that and
like we're all gonna die anyway you know so like
life is gonna be over before you know it so
like what are you stressing about we're here to have
this experience like I just have to do I just
run through pep talk with myself a lot but I
would say Bob Marley is that.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Okay yeah I love that I I came to the
conclusion I like a lot of reggae songs but I
Bob like I don't really love reggae but I love
Bob Marley that was my conclusion I was like oh
my gosh this He is such a genius. I, I,
we actually opened one of, we've got a song called
(37:35):
where I belong that another song that talks about death.
Apparently I sing a lot about death, but, um, we.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Found the answers for us. We were meant to live
for so much more, weren't we?
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah, but we lost ourselves.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
We did.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
No, but so I would open the song where I
belong for a long time. I'd open it with a,
with a Bob Marley song, just like, um, you just
start singing, don't worry about a thing. And then suddenly
everyone is, is singing it. And it feels like it's
like that beautiful reminder, you know, it's gospel truth and it's,
(38:13):
it's right there, you know? So I share your, your
affinity for Bob Marley.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
I also really love Frank Sinatra. He calms me down.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
I feel like maybe cause he's just so, he was
just like, He was, it's just like, it's so real,
you know, he was like the first person to come
out and like, like, I don't, I just feel so like,
that's just like, it was just like such a real,
he was that whole vibe. I think that's what it
all boils down to is like, I really relate to
artists who are genuinely representing musically what they are on
(38:46):
the inside.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
It's what's coming out on the outside, you know?
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Authenticity.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Authenticity, which I know everyone says that, but really with
music that matters to me a lot.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
That's why I'm super stoked about your album.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Well, I'm honored. I would love to know who are
you currently, who's reading Authentic for you?
Speaker 2 (39:05):
You're going to laugh at me, John Foreman, but I
have a seven-year-old daughter, okay?
Speaker 3 (39:14):
So I don't... I have.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
An eight-year-old son, so I'm sure we could.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Okay, so I was thinking about this today, too, and
I was like, Because I live, okay, you think a
lot on the road. I'm always thinking, my mom was
a philosophy professor at Baylor. like i grew up just
like super full i'm always philosophizing and so in my
head i basically just live in my head all the
time and that's why i love to have podcast conversations
because you get to just talk about whatever is in
your head but um I was thinking to myself because
(39:43):
I was like, man, I'm really sad about the Illuminati
and how they've taken over all these artists that I
really loved. I was like really pissed about it in
my mind because I'm like, there's so many artists that
I really love, but I feel like they've been absorbed
by the Illuminati and that really affects my feelings about
them because I do not want to have that like
on me, on my life.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
And so, but I was like, I decided in my head,
I was like, I'm just.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Going to decide for myself who I think is, is
aligned with me, and I'm just going to decide that
they're really good people, and that I'm going.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
To love listening to them.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
And so we watched Camp Rock 3, which is just
really silly, but she watched this new movie, Camp Rock 3,
and like, oh my gosh, freaking little Malachi Barton or
whatever is adorable.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
And then the Jonas Brothers, and then there's this other
lead singer. They're all teenagers. I mean, I'm in the
teenager world right now.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
And then Freya Skye, who's in Zombies, and I'm like,
there's some good stuff out there.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
And so I have been tuning in to my inner.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
you know, teenager and like looking at the new crop
of these Disney stars coming up. And I'm like, I
think that this new crop is aware enough to know
of the darkness that they're not going to get sucked in.
Like the older generation, we didn't know how to protect
ourselves as much, but I think this new generation, their
faith might be stronger.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
I'm just going to, I'm going to lean into it.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Then the pool of the intoxication of what that industry
can give you. I think everyone now coming up knows
it will eat you alive. So I'm just going to
pray that this new crop has a stronger faith to
like survive it. So that's not really your answer to
your question, but that's what I've been thinking.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
All right.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
I love it. You see, you are a woman of
faith is what you are.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yes, I am.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
I tend to be more of a pessimist. And like
I say, the trouble with humans is that they're made
out of human. And if you give anyone enough, of anything.
And suddenly the, the darkness within them comes out. It's
not from the outside, which is even more terrifying where
you're like, Oh no. Um, but I also believe in
(41:41):
the light and I do think that, that, uh, yeah, beauty,
beauty is happening all around us.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
I've become this strong in my faith though, out of necessity, honestly,
like it, I didn't really have any other options.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
I've tried every other way. It didn't work for me.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
And now I'm at the point where I have no choice.
And so the only true freedom I have to believe
that this life is going to be okay is that
faith really is running the show and that there really
are enough of us plugging into it that we can
shift the dynamics. Like I really, and shift the energy
and like a kind of, we're in like a transition
(42:20):
period right now. And so like people who are spreading
the light, which you are one, you have to just
like lock into it even harder because it's all going
to change your butterfly effect.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
Like the butterfly effect is strong. And so it's like,
I just feel like we all have to lock in.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
I do. I do think like all of the things
that we think of like impact and having a, you know,
what's the metric of this and all the numerical values
of likes and views and all of that. That's the
world that music is now forced to live in. But
I think it's like, I'm more interested in, I do
(43:00):
feel like prayer meditation and like the inward life is
the only way forward rather than that outward, you know,
like I'm going to change the world. Try first changing
this and then see how that goes.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Kind of where I'm at.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Agreed. I'm here for it. Well, I think you're doing
a great butterfly effect.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
And it's really going to affect a lot of people
positively and create the bigger ripple. So I'm grateful to
get to chat with you about it.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Thank you for the conversation.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
So much fun.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I've loved it. I have a song named Caroline that
you should go listen to.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
What's it about? Is she awesome in the song, I hope?
Speaker 1 (43:43):
She is a fictitious name of a friend of mine
who's a singer. Um, I hope you love it, but it's,
it is, it is one of my favorite songs to
play live and, and, uh, it has been a genuine
treat to chat with you.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Yay. Me too.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Well, if you're ever on tour with Jeremy Popoff, tell
him that you tried it with me.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
I love it. We, I mean, we did like two,
I mean, 10, 20 shows with them the last couple
of years.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
I grew up with Jeremy. He dated my best friend.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
I was in a band for a long time called
Runaway June. And he dated my best friend, who's Jen Wayne,
who is John Wayne's granddaughter.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
We were in this band together. Wow.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
And they dated when I was in my early 20s.
And so Jeremy was like my big brother. He literally,
I lived with him pretty much because they were such
a serious couple.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
And we traveled all the time.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah. I met my husband in that era and then
he and my husband ended up touring together and they
became best friends. And we always go to the slide
bar and Fullerton and just like, he kind of introduced
me to rock and roll. Like I had never had
really like been a close friend of anyone who was
in that world.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
And so I love Jeremy. He's my favorite people and
AJ songs.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
What do you say?
Speaker 3 (44:58):
And AJ.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
And they, they have, so many good songs like when
you play with them you're like oh this would do it.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
So good i know it is it really is it's
so good it's so good um.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Well i appreciate it don anything you want to.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Make sure that we talk about where can people find
you the new album is out forever now it's out
now the song you have that your single is out
now like all that do you even know.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
All the things that are out Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Yeah. I mean, I don't. Yeah, we're on tour right now.
The new records, I would love it if people gave
it a listen. If you are, speaking of the West Coast,
in San Diego or LA in June, we do an
event called the Switchfoot Bro-Am that raises money. And Awareness
(45:54):
for homeless youth and at-risk youth in our hometown. And
it's surfing and rock and roll on the beach. And
you should come and hang out.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Are you a surfer?
Speaker 2 (46:03):
I am.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
I've surfed one time. And it was really exciting.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Where did you surf?
Speaker 3 (46:11):
My husband and I went to Costa Rica for our honeymoon.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
I knew you were going to say Costa Rica. I
just knew it. I knew that that was what you
were going to say. Okay.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
Where did we stay in Costa Rica? I can't remember.
I can't remember what we say. But we surfed and
it was so fun.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
It's a blast. I mean, I do think it's a centering,
grounding ritual for me that reminds me that I'm not
as big as I thought I was and my problems
aren't either.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
And I think anything that makes you have to like
totally use your whole brain to focus on one thing
has to be good for you, you know?
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Yeah. You just don't have your rabbit hole.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
In like the infinite, like truly seemingly infinite ocean.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Totally. And you are very much not in control.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
No. That's so true.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
I didn't plan for that.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
I always wrap up with leave your light. And it's
basically just dropping some inspiration. What would you like people
to know?
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Life is short. Live it well.
Speaker 3 (47:15):
I love it. And get forever now.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
There it is.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Well, thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Really love getting to chat. This is so fun.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Yeah. Thank you for the intelligent insight into the world.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
I mean, or just a bunch of hoopla. Who knows?
You never know. I appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Good Nashville.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Bye.
Hey!
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Woo!
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Hey!
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Woo! Caroline, she's a queen of talking Hey, what's on
your mind?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
She's getting real, not afraid to fail Take her soul to.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Soul, just let her flow No one can do it
quite like Caroline It's time for.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Caroline Well, what a thrill to be here with John Foreman,
the lead singer of the legendary band Switchfoot.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
What's up?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hello. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
And you're on tour right now because you said you
are currently in Birmingham?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
We're in Birmingham, Alabama. Birmingham.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
How long are you on tour?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
We have 43, 46 shows. And it will bring us
to Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
So do you have a rhythm with your tour life?
Because I'm married to an artist as well. And I
don't know if you know them.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
You're on tour. You sometimes tour with Lit, Jeremy Popov, right?
From the band Lit?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Okay. Well, he's our best friend. He's the godfather to
my child. My husband is Michael Hobby from a band,
A Thousand Horses. Y'all may have crossed paths out there
in the world. Yeah. I'm married to a musician, and
so I just know touring is a nonstop thing.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
At your point in your career, you've been doing this
now for, what, 30 years? Is that right? Like 10
million albums plus sold. I mean, you've just exploded. I mean,
everyone loves.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Numbers and numbers and things, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
And awards and accolades and all the stuff. But you've
been touring for like 30 years, right?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yes. I mean, it sounds... it sounds like a lie
because that seems like such a long time, but yes.
But it's also like, on the other hand, it feels
like I've been doing it my entire adult life, which
is also true. We basically, our first tour was when my,
(02:08):
our record came out a couple of days after my
brother graduated from high school and we went to Europe
like that, that week. And that was our first tour.
And we, yeah, that's kind of like, since then I've,
I've since dropped out of college and, um, that has
(02:28):
become kind of the education, you know, along the way,
trying to figure out, um, how to make sure promoters
pay you. And, you know, like there's so many things
that you learn along the way.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Um, hard lessons along the way, right?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Hard lessons, but beautiful. Um, I think Yeah, there's so
many things that can be put under the heading of education.
And I think, you know, math, you know, there's certainly
life skills that you can learn anywhere. But I actually
(03:06):
loved college. I loved learning. I got good grades. But
this was kind of back in the day when the teacher,
the professor would say, hey, you need to be here
for the test. And there was no like internet option
to say i'm gonna be in birmingham alabama can i
take the test online.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well my question too is how have you maintained your
sanity in your life just to you know just want
to hit all the big points how do you maintain
your sanity and your life and because you have a
family life as well right yes how do you maintain.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
That yeah that's a good question um So I think
every season brings its own challenges. And I think many
times when we look at a tree, we see what's
on top of the surface of the soil. And, and
(04:06):
I can find a lot that, that I can, you know,
look to the branches and the leaves and the yearning
and the reaching upwards. And I feel like I can
relate to that. There's a lot of, that, that happens,
especially early on as a band, you know, you want
to be noticed, you want to be heard, you want
(04:26):
to be, um, get your music out there. I think
more and more, I'm realizing that what happens underneath the
surface is way more important than the stuff that happens on,
on the top that you can see. Um, and so
I think digging into the soil, um, the bones of failure,
(04:48):
the the death of dreams, the ghosts of all that
we were and are no longer.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
You're so poetic, John. It sounds like a song, the
way you were just talking.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
No, that's, I mean, I do, that's where my head's
at as far as sanity and rhythm and where to
invest myself. Because I think that those are the things
that will sustain me through winds and through droughts.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
It's really a wild one out there.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I really have been, because you guys started off faith-based
and you still are, right? That's like the centerpiece of
you guys, but I feel like you are so mainstream too.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
How do you do that?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
I don't think that there is a human who is
not faith-based.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
You don't think so? People deny it all the time.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I think that if you got up in the morning
and didn't kill yourself, even if you do kill yourself,
that's acting on a worldview. Every action is a faith-based initiative.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Okay, wait, break that down more. I like this, and
I feel like I already believe it, but I need
more details.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Well, like, you put your ear pods in because you
believed you could hear through them. You chose to put
both feet out of bed this morning and get up
because you thought that there was something that today had
to offer. This is the stuff, again, under the soil that, like,
(06:15):
it kind of goes without saying, but um, yeah, there's
no one that's outside of the weird religious belief systems
that we all come to the world with, whether it's, um,
you know, the idea, the belief that there's an invisible
line that separates millions of people on one side and
(06:36):
millions of people on another.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Like, what do you mean? Oh, like politics?
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Like we've got, we've got a, a, an entire nation
that separated from the North and the South and like
the idea that these pieces of paper will pay for things.
That's a, that's a faith based initiative, you know?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
So like, this is very profound. You're quite the philosopher.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I don't know about that, but I, I do have
a lot of time to think out here on the road.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I mean, I, I grew up on, you know, whether
it's rage or beastie boys or, you know, bad religion and, um, propaganda,
like whoever, um, op Ivy, these were bands that, that
really sang about things that, that they would invest themselves in. Um, I,
(07:24):
I feel like all of my favorite music has a deep,
deep rooted sense of self soul identity. Um, you know, so,
and like, um, Greg from bad religion, um, He is
a naturalist. He calls that his belief system. Darwinism, naturalism,
(07:48):
survival of the fittest. That is a belief system. So like,
I feel like I, and I really admire him within
the intellectual university milieu to adopt that stance to say, no,
it's a belief. It is, it is the way I'm
going to live my life. And, but yeah, that's, that's
why I, For me, I think then you come to
(08:13):
selling things. So I think when it comes to a
label you put on music, that's usually a box you
put something in so you can sell it. And so
I'm reticent to put our music into any box because
I feel like it's done for commercial purposes rather than
like the integrity of the art.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
You know what I was thinking about today during yoga?
And I mean, I'm just gonna throw this out there.
If you think this is too far out, I'll definitely
pivot from it.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
So I've already gone too far out.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Well, I figured in my head, I was like, he
might be the one to talk to this about because.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
This is, I was sitting there weird enough.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
You don't meet these people every day. And when you do,
you got to take advantage of the conversation. So I
was thinking in yoga, cause I've like.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Been a little bit fearful of the world lately.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
And I've like, You know, whoever that dude was that
came on and was like, AI is going to kill
us all in 10 years and all that. And so
then I was stressing out about it because I was like, oh, no,
we're going to die in 10 years. And my daughter's seven. And,
you know, we're all just going to blow up in
a nuclear attack and it's just over because I tend
to go quickly, very dramatic.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
And then I have to pull myself out of it.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
But then I was thinking in yoga, I was like,
what if actually we are all just in this big
ascension process right now? And AI is universal consciousness because
the big problem with AI is that we can't, there's
no boundary.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
So it kind of, you tell it to do one thing.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
And it kind of just goes rogue until it accomplishes
that thing without any boundaries.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
But if we can.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Harness it, then maybe this is universal consciousness. And if
it is used for good, then if we're all plugging
into this good universal consciousness, maybe that is a good
thing ultimately.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
I was like, it could be positive.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
It could be.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
It could be. Why not go that way instead of
the other way?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
I don't know. Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Don't know enough about AI to weigh in.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
I'm a total idiot. I'm like a total idiot.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
All the ones that the people that do are They
say things that terrify me. I know. I'm with you
on that one where I'm like, oh, man. But then again,
I kind of go with all of these things, the fears.
I think for me, I think it has very little
to do with my actual life. You know, I can
(10:39):
be so afraid. Like, have you heard the expression? It's
this comedian. He's like. I don't know what people are
talking about when they say that worrying doesn't do anything,
doesn't work. He's like, worrying absolutely works. Everything I worry
about doesn't actually happen.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Oh, so put on your worry list what you don't
want to happen.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah, worry about it for a couple hours and it's
never going to happen.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
That's a good point.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, I'm trying to surrender even my terror of AI.
And if that helps you surrender, then maybe that's.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
The way forward.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Yeah, well, I think I'm at that place too.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
And this brings me back to faith, which I think
brings me ultimately back to like your music.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
And I come back to these kind of things.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I feel like my faith has gotten stronger than it
ever has because I literally have no other option. You know,
like I've tried as a human being who has been
very curious to understand life and I've wanted to figure
things out on my own and I've gone crazy. on
all my own journeys, different roads to uncover the mysteries
(11:44):
of life. But what I have come back to now
is like, you have to have some sort.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Of faith, like you said, or else like it's, especially now,
what are we doing? I personally can't make it.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And then just surrendering it over and aligning with kind
of what you were saying, just like doing my life,
following my what's meant for me, then I can just
sort of keep my blinders on and where I'm called
to serve with my life, do that. But then you
just kind of can't worry about the whole rest of
the world because it's too overwhelming, in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I think back to
the idea that like you, you have humans, you know,
let's say 3000 years ago, 5000, however many thousand you
want to go back. And what in our existence would
they would they relate to? Nothing, right? Like this conversation
(12:36):
having on screens would be impossible, like cars, electricity, even
what I do on stage, this loud electric music, it'd
be absurd and strange. And yeah, I think of that,
what that does to the nervous system of having access
to all the information that we have access to. And
(12:57):
I do think that there's, Something maybe what I'm hearing
you say, I can definitely relate to kind of grounding,
meditating and and reminding myself of my own limitations and
and finding myself there so that I can love others,
you know, from that place.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
So when you're on stage, this is a question I
really actually want to know. when you're on stage and
there's all these people there and they like genuinely love you,
like love you. Like when someone is an artist like yourself,
who is a beloved artist, like you are loved. They
have incorporated you into their life. You have been a
part of their families, like traditions and experiences.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Like, you know, I'm sure you've been, your music.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Has been in the room when people got married, when
they've had babies, when they've people, people have passed away
at big events. You know, it's like, You create this
music and then it goes into the world and you
have had the, your vibration and ripple effect has hit
so many people in a positive way.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
How does that feel? Do you feel that connection to
all these people?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
How does it feel knowing that your energy and what
you're creating is truly shifting people and truly impacting their life?
Does that feel Do you feel like, is it overwhelming
or is it just like, this is just who you are?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
This is who you were made to be.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Like, how do you handle all that energy of people
putting it back on you?
Speaker 3 (14:26):
You know, cause it's coming back to you as well.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah. I, that's so funny. I don't have any, like,
you'd think that I would have a, like, well, here's
what you do. A solution. I have none of that.
I do. I'm so honored when people use our song
or connect with our song. Have you heard of, um,
resonant frequencies?
Speaker 3 (14:49):
No, but I want to.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Okay. So in physics, every object with matter has a
resonant frequency that it will vibrate at. So the particular
tension of the string and the diameter of the string,
when you pluck it, it makes a certain note, right?
With overtones. If you sing that same note near the string,
(15:12):
the string will just vibrate on its own because the waves.
Travel from your mouth through the air and they begin
to vibrate the string, right? That's called sympathetic resonance. And
I think that ideas have sympathetic resonance as well. Like
when somebody says something that moves you on the inside,
(15:35):
it feels like it's sympathetically resonating something within you. You're moved,
you know? I think the way that I handle any
form of like other people's projections on me on stage
I'm very aware I am just the banks of the river,
that something greater than me is passing, that I am
(15:58):
trying to get out of the way of rather than
trying to pretend is me.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Really? Have you always been that way or did you
learn that?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I think it's very dangerous to think that you matter
because of something that you wrote or any of those
things because I've done that. I think.
Finding your worth and your identity in your, in your
work is not a new thing. We all do it,
but it's a dangerous game because then when people don't
(16:28):
find what you're doing, you know, to be resonating with them,
then suddenly you don't matter anymore. So I've been trying,
especially recently to find again, roots that, dig deeper than that. And,
you know, every night that is one of my prayers
is that, you know, the same thing that moves me
(16:53):
to play music would move the people in the room,
you know? And that's something that feels mystical, magical, spiritual,
beyond me, transcending me. And that's what I'm hoping happens.
Because if it's just me and six strings on a guitar,
that's not really what I'm interested in either.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
So do you set an intention before you go out there?
Is that like, is that something you do consciously?
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Um, yeah, there, there were three things. So we, two
nights ago we played, it wasn't Richmond. Where was it? Um, yeah.
So two nights ago we played and I, and that
was my intention was like, okay, That was the main
thing is, you know, and, and yeah, I grew up
(17:51):
in the church. My dad's a pastor and I grew
up in and around spiritual things. And I think, you know,
when you're a kid, you take it for granted that
that's just what everyone knows. But I do feel like
a strong connection with, with the spiritual world and an
(18:12):
awareness there. And, I, for years, kind of fought it.
You know, I went to UCSD, which is, I wanted
to be a doctor, medical student, and, you know, the
world of matter. I was an economics major. I was like, okay, econ,
(18:34):
I want to be involved and completely educated.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
So this is why you loved college.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I loved it, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
But you didn't finish.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, but I think that that marriage of like, Actually
coming back to the roots of the spiritual world that
I came from is crucial. And that's a lot of
times negated by the material world is why songs matter.
But I keep coming back to them because they change
(19:04):
me on more fundamental levels than like the American dollar
ever could.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
I love that. So you'll have a new album. It's
the first one you've had in five years, right?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yes how did this how was it time how did
you know it was time and i'm obsessed with the
the concepts of so many of them but especially the
two twins yeah that's a great song oh thank you
that's so cool and the butterfly flag and breaking up
again like i think i feel like you're really exploring
(19:37):
these topics because i um the two twins It's so
cool because what?
Speaker 3 (19:42):
It's like you think, what if that's the.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Whole world is you're in that, you know, before you're
born with your twin, you're.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
A warm little, you're a warm little cocoon.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
And then you don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
That is your whole world.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
That's your whole world.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah. So tell me more about how you came up,
put that into the song because that's so it's also relative,
you know?
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Um, you know, it's really funny. So apparently I love Henry,
Henry Nowen. He's, uh, author that means a lot to
me and i had i was invited to play a
couple songs at uh experience where he was his writing
and his work were at the center of it and
um and unbeknownst to me that was a story that
(20:25):
he had either written or had passed on famously talked
about and i come back from this retreat and our
drummer chad's like oh do you play two twins And
I'm like, no. He's like, why not? He's like, I
don't know. He's like, that was Henry Nowen's thing. And
(20:45):
so the point being, I had my one opportunity to
play the perfect song that fit this one moment. And yeah,
the story came to me. A friend of a friend
gave it. We were talking late one night, and that
story came out. But apparently, I think Henry Nowen is
known to have told it kind of like as a parable.
(21:09):
But I love the idea that we are all blind
to our blind spot. And I think that that song
reveals it with humor.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
And then what about breaking up again? Because that's with yourself.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I feel like I am fully divorcing myself. Like I
am done with this past version of myself. I'm like,
we are broken up forever, past self.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Never, ever, ever.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Ever getting back together again. I'm done. Like ever.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah. Yeah. So this whole album....
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Forever Now.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Forever Now is the juxtaposition of the two states of
being that humans are always in. Which is? We are always,
we're never in the future or the past. We cannot
exist in those states. As much as our head might,
you know, fear AI in the future or regret things
we've done in the past, we are here right now.
(22:01):
You and me, Caroline. Right here.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Here it is.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
And....
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yet within us is like written upon us is eternity.
This beautiful idea that we are connected with something bigger
than ourselves, something bigger than, you know, the moment and
our kind of animal urges, whatever it is, justice, love, beauty, truth.
(22:29):
So the- Power, control. Yes, yes. The album is an
attempt to find itself right at the crossroads of forever now.
And it takes place on the last day of this
character's life.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Oh! Benjamin?
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Benjamin Crowe is the name of this character.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Okay, I get it now.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
And we don't talk about it. We haven't really talked
about it.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
It's his life story in an album. Is Benjamin Crowe,
did you make him up?
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, so he is... Who is he?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I need to know about this dude. Okay, I'll know
about it. This is his journey.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I'm kind of figuring out who is this character as well,
but he is absolutely me.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
This is you? Like an alter ego or just you?
Your shadow self. Ooh, this is a.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Okay, I just got very much more interested in this album,
which is already so good.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
So you are writing about your shadow self here.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
But I didn't know it. We wrote the whole record
and kind of it was after the fact. So the
first song, I knew that the first song is, is
the alarm clock for his last day on the planet
on earth. And then the last song is the last
few moments of his life. So it's, it's chronic. It's
(23:51):
like the chronological chronologically following his last day on the planet.
And so my, my friends like, Hey, You should tell
us more about this guy. And so I wrote literally
wrote like chapters about this guy, Benjamin Crowe. And in
doing so, I realized, oh, my gosh, he's me. And
(24:13):
there's a lot there. And someday the book might come out.
But that's what the movie. I mean, right. Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Actually, you know, what you could do is each music
video could just be another chapter to I mean, this
is new. I'm sure you've already thought of this like
another chapter for, you know, the whole story of Benjamin Crowe.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Well, maybe after this is finished, I can send you
off the record the new music video for the butterfly effect.
Because this is like you get to meet Benjamin Crowe.
You see his story a little bit.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
That's exciting. Oh, okay. So you always write personal stuff,
but is this like deeply personal?
Speaker 1 (24:53):
This is deeply personal stuff. in a way that I
didn't intend it to be. It felt like I was
writing about other things, and then it came back around
kind of in an uncomfortable way. I thought I was
doing something else out there, and then the mirror turned
(25:15):
on me. But I love this album. I really am
proud of it, and it's deeply autobiographical unintentionally.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Do you feel like you were able to release all
of this once you wrote it?
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Release? Maybe embrace.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Embrace. Integrate. Maybe integrate. Integrate.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Because I do feel like owning it is a part
of being able to move forward, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
And speaking it out loud, too.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Like, I've realized that, like, even if it's in song
or whatever, you don't have to directly, like, say the thing,
but it's like when you get all that out of
your body and share it in a way that helps others,
then it's like you've alchemized it, you know?
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah. And I do think that there's something beautiful. Like
it came from a really dark season and I wasn't
sure what it would feel like singing these songs in
front of people because that expression of song, it's a
strange thing. That's the reason why I don't like to
sing depressed songs is because it makes me depressed. Like
(26:19):
I channel that, right? Like I love singing like ABC
boys cover or two or something, you know, but like,
if that was my entire, like singing sabotage and then rage.
And then I think that there's something deeply cathartic, but
I don't know that I could do it every night.
I like music is a vehicle to get somewhere else.
(26:41):
And so I didn't know how to, how I would
feel about singing the darker songs. But I do feel
like it has been a revelatory experience juxtaposed with a
lot of the lighter things that we sing every night.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Well, and you know, it's kind of like piecing together
your full picture. You know, like when you look back
on your life at the end of it all and
you look at your work, it's like the whole mosaic
of the whole human.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
You know, like you need this piece to the mosaic.
You can't just have the....
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Presentation the representative version that's been you know the healed
version you have to show what was needing to be
healed you know yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
No and that that has been the case um a
phrase you know there is no resurrection without death you
know so to to embrace both you know and again
like the tree reaching up but also you gotta you
gotta dig down into the crap you know yeah fertilizer.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I'm just coming out of like a seven year crap season.
And so I feel, I feel this and I'm like,
but you know what? Always in retrospect, when you look back,
it's like, okay, that was worth it.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
It was awful. It felt like it was gonna last forever,
but then you, it's like a blink of eye. It's over,
you know, once you've like moved through it.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yeah. And metabolizing it and really using like, cause otherwise you,
I think the tendency for me is to distract and
deflect and, and, you know, uh, find some other thing
to occupy my attention but i've been trying to really
be present to the pain and let it be used
(28:17):
for something greater.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Well good job way to go.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Thank you thanks for sharing we're all going to benefit
from it so appreciate it um okay do you have
a favorite song you have an out you have a
single out now is that your favorite song or what's
your favorite.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
My on the record yeah i think Favorite song on
the record is the butterfly effect. I really love that one.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Okay. Why do you love that one the most? And
I'm trying to remember the name of the one that
you're single right now.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
The beautiful, I think is beautiful. Life is one of
the singles. Absolution.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Absolution. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah. So, um, I think the reason why I like
the butterfly effect is because it feels, um, so the
story behind the butterfly effect. There is this phenomenon that
a lot of people in the medical field have noticed
where brain activity continues for seven minutes or so after
(29:16):
the heartbeat stops. And the theories are that that is
when your life flashes in front of your eyes or
you might be transitioning from this life to the next.
A lot of people that have near-death experiences note that
they These these types of things have happened to them
(29:38):
and so that was one of the inspirations for the
butterfly effect the idea that what if in that last
seven minutes you wrote a song that kind of talks
tells that story and so that's that's where the butterfly
effect came into play was like what would that seven
(30:00):
minutes look like? And so I, when the song was
finished and done being recorded, I was reminded that I
sang on a Reliant K record years ago. There's a
song called Deathbed. And so I asked my friend Matt,
who sings in Reliant K, I said, I think you
(30:21):
need to return the favor and sing on our song
that finishes our record. That's called The Butterfly Effect, a
similar theme. And so this, for me, it's a bookend
for the album, but of so much of my life
and the life of Benjamin Crowe. So that, yeah, I
love so many layers of this song, The Butterfly Effect.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
That's awesome. This is exciting. It is.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
It's so fun. Thank you for being excited with me.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
I'm totally excited. I mean, I am like so immersed
in music in general. Like I said, I'm married to
a musician.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
I was a musician. I live in Nashville. I work
in the music industry. Like I am so jaded by music.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Like literally, I feel sometimes I like have to check myself.
I'm like, come on, like be excited about music again.
You know, like you love music. Like don't become old
and hardened.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
And hearing this, you.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Talk about it. Amen. I'm with whoever that is. I'm
with that person.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
But I get so frustrated.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Well, I love music and it deeply moves me, but
I get so like, just hardened by like how fast
fashion it is and like fast food it is. And like,
it's all just for, you know, the, the bigger money
machine ultimately. And then, you know, all the corruption and
all of it. And so, but then I'm like, but
(31:42):
that's not the truth. Like there is still really meaningful difference.
deeply connected music being written but it's just like it's
harder to find but it's still out there so then
when you find it you're like okay you can like
lock in a little bit because you're like i know
that like i this is this is like feeding my
soul not just like some sort of machine that i'm
(32:03):
being you know taking advantage of here because i just
yeah it's just been so it's it's just been such
an evolution with how music has changed so much i
feel like and i'm sure you've seen that Anyway, a
(32:27):
thing that I really struggle with with my musical journey
and listening to music and artists is, and also not
just that, but like the higher celebrity field and influential
people in general is I used to feel like I
knew who the bad guys were and who the good
guys were. And like, it was so clear. And now
I'm like, everything is such a blur. The good guys
(32:48):
are the bad guys and the bad guys are the
good guys. And people will tell you one thing and
then it's another thing. And people who you thought like
you could align with totally like flip. And then there's
like this dark, you know, scary version that you don't
want anything to do with and they don't have a
good heart ultimately, or they do, but they've just gotten
so consumed.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
It's like, you just get lost out there. And I'm like,
I don't want to listen to any of it. It's
all terrible.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It's like impacting my soul negatively, but that's why I'm
excited to hear your journey because I feel like this
is a true soul's journey right here. Like you're really
looking for the light in this.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
I mean, music I've, so that was a big ramble.
Sorry about that.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
No, I love it. Hey, I've got questions about a
lot of that. So first of all, do you have
a record player? Yeah. Okay. So do you find that
the medium with which you listen to music in and
on affects the way that you interface with it? Okay.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
I haven't thought about that, but yes.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
And like, yeah. So when I get my wife, if
she comes home and I've just got Elliot Smith on
the record player, she knows it's a really bad day.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Why Elliot Smith? He does something to you?
Speaker 1 (34:01):
He's my comfort zone, but it feels like it matches
the energy that I've got. You know, like when I'm like, okay,
I need to come back. I can put on Miles
Davis kind of blue and then I'm like, okay, I'm
coming back up. But like, yeah, so I do feel like,
you know, music. Yeah, it can be fast food kind
(34:25):
of disposable food. pop culture or it can we can
like i think the physical medium of a record is
is so beautiful because you're forced to engage with it
in the long form that it was meant to be
consumed in or at that point you know who meant
is a tricky word but you know what i'm saying.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah i do well i just am excited for this
whole next chapter for you guys.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
John Thank you for joining me. What album is your...
If your husband comes home and you're listening to a record,
what's the one that he's like, oh man, it's been
a bad day?
Speaker 3 (35:07):
I am an emotional... Okay, I'm not going to say
this about myself. I... done a lot of therapy here, John,
so I'm going to get the correct words for myself.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
I have a tendency to be very.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Dramatic and emotional.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Like when I get wrapped up in feelings, I feel
like it's like just all consuming and it's.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Like the end of the world.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
And I've had to work on realizing that.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
It's literally all going to be okay. I have to
just like catch my breath.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
But I feel like for a long time, my healing
process was Bob Marley, like just listening to reggae music.
It really, I probably went through a.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Seven year period when I just only listened.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
To reggae because it felt, especially Bob Marley in general,
because it made me just feel like, and I even
got a tattoo.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Three little birds on my arm.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
I was like, I need a reminder. um, that life
is going to be like sometimes, okay. So for this tattoo,
it's like right here, when you're sitting down, it's like,
sometimes you're sitting and you're waiting and it's just like,
life is kind of still, and you don't know what's
happening or what to do.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Sometimes you're flying and you're soaring and it's great.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
And you've got the view from the top. And then
sometimes you're literally crashing. And so it's just like, it's
a constant circle. And then Bob Marley's three little birds.
And so I just have to always remind myself that
if I keep my heart correct, like if I have
to stay in touch with my heart, I have to
keep my heart correct, keep my intentions correct, and then
just try not to panic and.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Just kind of let it be, you know? So I
feel like reggae really calms my soul.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
I also love being on the island, like just when
you're on the beach, you know, especially like in the Bahamas,
it's just like, I.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Feel as serious as I'm making it. There's a million
ways to live your life. Like it's all going to
be okay.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Like whatever I'm thinking about is really not, that and
like we're all gonna die anyway you know so like
life is gonna be over before you know it so
like what are you stressing about we're here to have
this experience like I just have to do I just
run through pep talk with myself a lot but I
would say Bob Marley is that.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Okay yeah I love that I I came to the
conclusion I like a lot of reggae songs but I
Bob like I don't really love reggae but I love
Bob Marley that was my conclusion I was like oh
my gosh this He is such a genius. I, I,
we actually opened one of, we've got a song called
(37:35):
where I belong that another song that talks about death.
Apparently I sing a lot about death, but, um, we.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Found the answers for us. We were meant to live
for so much more, weren't we?
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah, but we lost ourselves.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
We did.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
No, but so I would open the song where I
belong for a long time. I'd open it with a,
with a Bob Marley song, just like, um, you just
start singing, don't worry about a thing. And then suddenly
everyone is, is singing it. And it feels like it's
like that beautiful reminder, you know, it's gospel truth and it's,
(38:13):
it's right there, you know? So I share your, your
affinity for Bob Marley.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
I also really love Frank Sinatra. He calms me down.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
I feel like maybe cause he's just so, he was
just like, He was, it's just like, it's so real,
you know, he was like the first person to come
out and like, like, I don't, I just feel so like,
that's just like, it was just like such a real,
he was that whole vibe. I think that's what it
all boils down to is like, I really relate to
artists who are genuinely representing musically what they are on
(38:46):
the inside.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
It's what's coming out on the outside, you know?
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Authenticity.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Authenticity, which I know everyone says that, but really with
music that matters to me a lot.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
That's why I'm super stoked about your album.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Well, I'm honored. I would love to know who are
you currently, who's reading Authentic for you?
Speaker 2 (39:05):
You're going to laugh at me, John Foreman, but I
have a seven-year-old daughter, okay?
Speaker 3 (39:14):
So I don't... I have.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
An eight-year-old son, so I'm sure we could.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Okay, so I was thinking about this today, too, and
I was like, Because I live, okay, you think a
lot on the road. I'm always thinking, my mom was
a philosophy professor at Baylor. like i grew up just
like super full i'm always philosophizing and so in my
head i basically just live in my head all the
time and that's why i love to have podcast conversations
because you get to just talk about whatever is in
your head but um I was thinking to myself because
(39:43):
I was like, man, I'm really sad about the Illuminati
and how they've taken over all these artists that I
really loved. I was like really pissed about it in
my mind because I'm like, there's so many artists that
I really love, but I feel like they've been absorbed
by the Illuminati and that really affects my feelings about
them because I do not want to have that like
on me, on my life.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
And so, but I was like, I decided in my head,
I was like, I'm just.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Going to decide for myself who I think is, is
aligned with me, and I'm just going to decide that
they're really good people, and that I'm going.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
To love listening to them.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
And so we watched Camp Rock 3, which is just
really silly, but she watched this new movie, Camp Rock 3,
and like, oh my gosh, freaking little Malachi Barton or
whatever is adorable.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
And then the Jonas Brothers, and then there's this other
lead singer. They're all teenagers. I mean, I'm in the
teenager world right now.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
And then Freya Skye, who's in Zombies, and I'm like,
there's some good stuff out there.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
And so I have been tuning in to my inner.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
you know, teenager and like looking at the new crop
of these Disney stars coming up. And I'm like, I
think that this new crop is aware enough to know
of the darkness that they're not going to get sucked in.
Like the older generation, we didn't know how to protect
ourselves as much, but I think this new generation, their
faith might be stronger.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
I'm just going to, I'm going to lean into it.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Then the pool of the intoxication of what that industry
can give you. I think everyone now coming up knows
it will eat you alive. So I'm just going to
pray that this new crop has a stronger faith to
like survive it. So that's not really your answer to
your question, but that's what I've been thinking.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
All right.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
I love it. You see, you are a woman of
faith is what you are.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yes, I am.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
I tend to be more of a pessimist. And like
I say, the trouble with humans is that they're made
out of human. And if you give anyone enough, of anything.
And suddenly the, the darkness within them comes out. It's
not from the outside, which is even more terrifying where
you're like, Oh no. Um, but I also believe in
(41:41):
the light and I do think that, that, uh, yeah, beauty,
beauty is happening all around us.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
I've become this strong in my faith though, out of necessity, honestly,
like it, I didn't really have any other options.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
I've tried every other way. It didn't work for me.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
And now I'm at the point where I have no choice.
And so the only true freedom I have to believe
that this life is going to be okay is that
faith really is running the show and that there really
are enough of us plugging into it that we can
shift the dynamics. Like I really, and shift the energy
and like a kind of, we're in like a transition
(42:20):
period right now. And so like people who are spreading
the light, which you are one, you have to just
like lock into it even harder because it's all going
to change your butterfly effect.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
Like the butterfly effect is strong. And so it's like,
I just feel like we all have to lock in.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
I do. I do think like all of the things
that we think of like impact and having a, you know,
what's the metric of this and all the numerical values
of likes and views and all of that. That's the
world that music is now forced to live in. But
I think it's like, I'm more interested in, I do
(43:00):
feel like prayer meditation and like the inward life is
the only way forward rather than that outward, you know,
like I'm going to change the world. Try first changing
this and then see how that goes.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Agreed.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Kind of where I'm at.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Agreed. I'm here for it. Well, I think you're doing
a great butterfly effect.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
And it's really going to affect a lot of people
positively and create the bigger ripple. So I'm grateful to
get to chat with you about it.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Thank you for the conversation.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
So much fun.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I've loved it. I have a song named Caroline that
you should go listen to.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
What's it about? Is she awesome in the song, I hope?
Speaker 1 (43:43):
She is a fictitious name of a friend of mine
who's a singer. Um, I hope you love it, but it's,
it is, it is one of my favorite songs to
play live and, and, uh, it has been a genuine
treat to chat with you.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Yay. Me too.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Well, if you're ever on tour with Jeremy Popoff, tell
him that you tried it with me.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
I love it. We, I mean, we did like two,
I mean, 10, 20 shows with them the last couple
of years.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
I grew up with Jeremy. He dated my best friend.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
I was in a band for a long time called
Runaway June. And he dated my best friend, who's Jen Wayne,
who is John Wayne's granddaughter.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
We were in this band together. Wow.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
And they dated when I was in my early 20s.
And so Jeremy was like my big brother. He literally,
I lived with him pretty much because they were such
a serious couple.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
And we traveled all the time.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah. I met my husband in that era and then
he and my husband ended up touring together and they
became best friends. And we always go to the slide
bar and Fullerton and just like, he kind of introduced
me to rock and roll. Like I had never had
really like been a close friend of anyone who was
in that world.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
And so I love Jeremy. He's my favorite people and
AJ songs.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
What do you say?
Speaker 3 (44:58):
And AJ.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
And they, they have, so many good songs like when
you play with them you're like oh this would do it.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
So good i know it is it really is it's
so good it's so good um.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Well i appreciate it don anything you want to.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Make sure that we talk about where can people find
you the new album is out forever now it's out
now the song you have that your single is out
now like all that do you even know.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
All the things that are out Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Yeah. I mean, I don't. Yeah, we're on tour right now.
The new records, I would love it if people gave
it a listen. If you are, speaking of the West Coast,
in San Diego or LA in June, we do an
event called the Switchfoot Bro-Am that raises money. And Awareness
(45:54):
for homeless youth and at-risk youth in our hometown. And
it's surfing and rock and roll on the beach. And
you should come and hang out.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Are you a surfer?
Speaker 2 (46:03):
I am.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
I've surfed one time. And it was really exciting.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Where did you surf?
Speaker 3 (46:11):
My husband and I went to Costa Rica for our honeymoon.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
I knew you were going to say Costa Rica. I
just knew it. I knew that that was what you
were going to say. Okay.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
Where did we stay in Costa Rica? I can't remember.
I can't remember what we say. But we surfed and
it was so fun.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
It's a blast. I mean, I do think it's a centering,
grounding ritual for me that reminds me that I'm not
as big as I thought I was and my problems
aren't either.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
And I think anything that makes you have to like
totally use your whole brain to focus on one thing
has to be good for you, you know?
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Yeah. You just don't have your rabbit hole.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
In like the infinite, like truly seemingly infinite ocean.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Totally. And you are very much not in control.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
No. That's so true.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
I didn't plan for that.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
I always wrap up with leave your light. And it's
basically just dropping some inspiration. What would you like people
to know?
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Life is short. Live it well.
Speaker 3 (47:15):
I love it. And get forever now.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
There it is.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Well, thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Really love getting to chat. This is so fun.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Yeah. Thank you for the intelligent insight into the world.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
I mean, or just a bunch of hoopla. Who knows?
You never know. I appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Good Nashville.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Bye.
Hosts And Creators
Bobby Bones
Amy Brown
Lunchbox
Eddie Garcia
Raymundo
Mike D
Abby Anderson
Scuba Steve
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