July 16, 2025 • 51 mins
Bobby Bones and Matt Cassel discuss the culture of swapping jerseys after a game and how Matt missed out on most of it. Watching The Quarterback Netflix series, Matt reflects on the insight from the show and how it compares to his own experiences.
NY Times Best Selling Author Jeff Pearlman begins with covering Barry Bonds and how great of a baseball player he was. Was Bonds' demeanor part of the reason his legacy has suffered so much? Jeff recounts his book on the Cowboys and what made Jimmy Johnson's team so special. What made Bo Jackson one of the best athletes of all-time and what was the one sport he couldn't play? Jeff talks about Brett Favre and why he was legendary. Jeff previews his project on Tupac (coming out in October) and how he spoke to over 650 people for research.
We play 'Start, Bench, Cut' with College Quartback trios from their alma-maters. Put the QBs in order from Oklahoma, Florida, Oregon, and USC. Matt and Bobby are both ready for real football and Matt is preparing for upcoming Media Days.
Lots to Say with Bobby Bones and Matt Cassel is part of the NFL Podcast Network
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle is
a production of the NFL and iHeart podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We got Lost, Just say.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
We got lost?
Speaker 4 (00:17):
Just say.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
What begger? And we hope you stay because we got lost?
Speaker 5 (00:24):
Just say, yeah, we got lost.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Just say here's Bobby.
Speaker 5 (00:32):
That everybody welcome to the show. Ay.
Speaker 6 (00:35):
Question, when you've played and I know, the culture of
jersey swapping and signing wasn't a thing, at least not
as outwardly.
Speaker 7 (00:42):
Did you guys do that? Did you have anybody's jersey
from when you played against?
Speaker 4 (00:45):
It?
Speaker 5 (00:45):
Like?
Speaker 7 (00:45):
Can I get your jersey?
Speaker 5 (00:46):
No? I'm thinking back, I would have probably liked to
try to get some of these guys that I played
against and opponents that you just have a ton of
respect for. But it really didn't come become popular until
later in my career when some of these younger guys
started to go out and swap jerseys and do all that.
And I thought, man, that I really missed the boat
on that one. What I had a stacked up jersey case,
(01:08):
you know.
Speaker 6 (01:09):
If he could go back and get one, yeah, oh yeah,
that's good.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
I mean far as I've said multiple times on this
show that he was just my childhood hero. One of
those guys that I'd watch religiously had the Brett fav
cleats in high school, you know, just and then also
it goes back to my playing days when my first
start in New England in the NFL was against the
Jets and Brett Favre was a quarterback and he was
the first guy to come up right after the game,
(01:35):
even though they lost, shake my hand and say, I'm
really excited for you. That was such a big moment
for me.
Speaker 7 (01:40):
Did he know you were a fan or was he
just that person?
Speaker 5 (01:45):
He was just that person. He had that type of
polarizing personality that it was infectious and you could tell,
like the way he played on the field was also
how he interacted with you before the game after the game,
and so that was cool to see that in person
and actually have him come up because I really hadn't
had any interaction with him prior to that.
Speaker 7 (02:05):
Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
It was pretty cool.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
I did a deal once where I went up and
I worked out with the Cardinals and we were just
shooting some content and I'm a Cubs fan, so it's
weird for me to wear anything Cardinals, but also I'm
an adult now, so it's fine.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
So, yeah, I'm not a game.
Speaker 6 (02:19):
It's not as romantic as I'm never wearing Cardinals, although
I'd still really struggle putting on at Texas Longhorns anything.
Speaker 7 (02:25):
But you know what, oh Arkansas.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Oh man.
Speaker 7 (02:28):
It's like, yeah, it's inside of me.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
But I go up and we are shooting the stuff
and Paul Golschmidt comes out, who's not with the Yankees,
and he's had an awesome career probably will be a
Hall of Famer, and we're interviewing him and he was like,
you know, I used to listen to you when I
was in college. I was like twenty four and he
was like twenty one. He's like, I used to listen
to you in college when I was playing baseball. And
(02:50):
I was like, no way goes Yeah, we listen to
you every morning, like, And so I took the microphone.
Speaker 7 (02:56):
This is such a stupid story, but I like it already.
Speaker 6 (02:59):
I took the microphone I was using and small flex here,
but I was the youngest person ever put into the
Radio Hall of Fame and so nobody cares though, so
it's really small, and so I signed it and then
I traded him a signed microphone for one of his
sign bats.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
That's cool.
Speaker 7 (03:16):
It was fun and he thought it was funny.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
And so I still have the Paul Golschmidt signed bat
from his locker.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
That's rad. Yeah, And that's a good exchange right there.
See that.
Speaker 6 (03:25):
And so I told him, I said, you're getting a
Hall of Famer. I'm getting hopefully one, you know. And
luckily he's a good sport. Have you watched any of
the Quarterback series on Netflix.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
I've watched a little bit of it.
Speaker 7 (03:37):
Have you watched season one or season two or both?
Speaker 5 (03:39):
I think it was season one with Mahomes Mariota. Was
Cousins in that one as well. Yes, he was in
two seasons.
Speaker 7 (03:46):
Right, So Cousins is still on this season on this season?
Speaker 5 (03:49):
Okay?
Speaker 6 (03:49):
So, and I watched sum of season one. I felt
it was a little corny at times, and I don't
think it was the players. I think it was just
how they would do the games. It just felt I
liked it, right, but there was a corniness to it
that didn't keep me completely invested.
Speaker 7 (04:04):
So I just want clips.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
But it did make me like Kirk Cousins because he
didn't have anything to me other than wearing coming out
wearing the chain. I didn't understand like Kirk Cousins are
and understand what he was as a person, and not
that a TV show gives you everything about a person,
but it made me like Kirk Cousins right.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
He's a straight laced, really good dude, like solid dude,
solid human being, right, and there's no ego involved. He's
a true professional in every sense of the word word.
And you can definitely see that as the season goes on,
that his dedication to his craft, to being the quarterback,
the responsibility that comes along with that, and then going
(04:41):
out and trying to perform at a high level. I
do believe that that show gives you great insight into
the stresses and what takes place during a season, whether
it's battling minor injuries or whether it's you know, you
go through a difficult loss, and just the logistics that
go on in a season, because a lot of time
(05:01):
you just see the byproduct of all the hard work
that got put in during the week. You just see
the final outcome on a Sunday, but you don't really
understand how much preparation and work goes into a weekly
based on a weekly basis to perform on Sunday.
Speaker 6 (05:15):
There's a scene in this season where it's Kirk Cousins's
wife talking about getting the call from the coach saying, hey,
we need to talk. Cousins goes in basically as told
you're not the starter anymore. And then Cousins comes home
and is obviously upset, sad, disappointed, whatever it is, understands
(05:39):
but is all of that. And then she walks and
she sees him talking to Michael Pennix on the phone
like this is your job now, Like you got to
get this.
Speaker 7 (05:46):
You've been waiting for this.
Speaker 6 (05:47):
How common is it that one quarterback would do something
like that when they get pitched for the second quarterback?
Speaker 5 (05:54):
You know, I had a similar situation, I believe when
I was in my last year in Kansas City and
Brady Quinn was our backup quarterback. Romeo Cornell was our
now our head coach. She was then interroom head coach
after Todd Haley got fired my third year, and I
was just coming back off of a concussion and so
I thought I was going to come back in and play.
I sat out one week. Brady started that week, and
(06:16):
I thought I was coming back and it was going
to be my job still. And I got called in
and he said, hey, Matt, I know that this is
tough circumstances, but we're going to go with Brady this
week again. And you know, nothing really prepares you for
that type of conversation when you're the starter and you
envision yourself as a starter, and it is a gut
(06:37):
punch for sure, but you have two different ways in
which you can handle it. You can pout, you can
get pissed off. You can be that guy that becomes
a distraction, or you're a guy that spends a lot
of time with these other quarterbacks. You spend so much
time throughout the course of a year with these quarterbacks.
They're all your buddies and your friends. And so I
went up to Brady and I said, hey, I just
got the news you're going to be starting this week.
(06:59):
And look, at the end of the day, I'm going
to be your biggest supporter. I'm not here to try to,
you know, go behind your back. Can you know, rally
these guys against you. If that's their decision, that's their decision.
And it takes you know, you got to put on
your big boy pants when that happens, because you have
to swallow your pride a little bit, and it's a
difficult circumstance. But I don't know. I've also been around
(07:20):
people that it doesn't always go that way, and they
go into meetings, they could become a shell of themselves.
You can openly see it on their face in which
they're not there for the team, they're there for themselves,
so to speak. And so at some point, especially when
you play a team sport, I think the biggest thing
that you've got a first and foremost do is you
know you got to suck it up and do what's
(07:41):
best for the team, even though you might not agree
with it.
Speaker 6 (07:43):
If they were shooting this with the Patriots back when
you played, imagine the season where Brady gets hurt and
you go in, like, what do you think of three
main storylines would have been?
Speaker 5 (07:53):
Well, obviously a kid that hadn't started since high school
would be the number one storyline there. I think it
would be the relationship in the dynamic between Bill Belichick
and how he's going to get this young upstart going
and give him confidence. Because he handled me differently than
he had in years past when I was just the backup.
He didn't ride me as much. He definitely held me
(08:14):
accountble don't get me wrong, but he'll he brought me in.
I remember one day we had lost to the San
Diego Chargers at the time, and we got beat pretty substantially,
and I was wavering a little bit, just because you're
still trying to earn the confidence of your teammates. At
that point, he said, look, Matt, we're not bringing anybody
(08:34):
else in. We've got you. We believe in you. And
that was different because I hadn't had any discussion like
that with him before, one on one where he came
up and openly said positive things and tried to reinforce that, hey,
you're here for a reason. Now just go out and
do your job with the best of your ability. And
we think that that that'll be enough. And so I
think that that dynamic would be interesting. And then there's
(08:58):
also the Brady Castle relationship throughout the course. Oh my goodness,
Tom Brady, right now, Tom, Tom, hold on, I'll tell
you talk to you right after that about cover two
defense and why I should have run instead of thrown
that ball into a double defense. No, but then there's
that relationship, and I think it was an interesting dynamic
because of everything he was going through with the surgery,
and then at the same time something went wrong with
(09:20):
the surgery they had to go back in and all
that stuff. But then the conversations that we would have
on a weekly basis and the support factor that he
had was definitely an interesting storyline. Maybe not as much
as we started to win games and started to see
these guys and these veteran guys like Rodney Harrison and
Matt Light and all the guys that I had had
relationships with rally around me, Teddy Bruski, and the confidence
(09:44):
that started to breed through the team, even though they
knew Tom Brady was in the shadows and was going
to come back at some point, but started the belief
within the building and not listening to all the other
people talk about, well, they're done for the year, they
can't do anything. Because the quarterback situations a major issue.
Speaker 7 (10:04):
Were you trade right after that season?
Speaker 5 (10:06):
I was traded so at first because of the situation
with Tom's knee and how long it would take. They
franchised me. So I was franchised, so I was under contract,
and then.
Speaker 7 (10:17):
At the season start with you on the team.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
No, the next season did not start so we're so.
Scott Pioli, who was the head of player personnel with
New England, got the GM job with New with the
Kansas City Chiefs, and then shortly thereafter I got a
phone call from Bill Belichick that said he was making
the trade for me and I was going to Kansas City.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
Is that because they knew or they felt pretty positive
about Brady's knee actually being able to and then they
held on to you just in case, right right.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
And I think that I was the backup plan again,
just in case he wasn't ready to go. They knew
that they had somebody that could go out and win games,
and so instead of just letting me become a free agent,
they had me as an emergency plan basically under a
franchise tender, with the understanding that they had control over
my rights and could trade me anywhere.
Speaker 6 (11:07):
If you get traded and you're tagged, So if you
get tagged it's one year and it's like the average
of the top five quarterback or whatever it was, that's
a significant bump. And if you get franchised for that
year but you're traded, do you still get paid the
same amount that they franchised you for for that year,
So I.
Speaker 5 (11:23):
Was traded under the franchise tag for the one year
franchise tag, so I didn't have to sign a long
term deal with Kansas City. But what it does do
is gives you a bargaining chip for as you said,
the average of the top five players at that position,
that that's my starting point for year one moving forward
to sign a long term deal. So I signed a
six year deal with them. But that was kind of
(11:45):
the bargain ships that we had was, hey, well this
is our starting point, which was pretty significant at that
point in my career obviously.
Speaker 6 (11:52):
So when they trade a franchise player, they're trading the
franchised one year contract.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Right, And a lot of times the other organization will
not make a trade for a player until they get
a deal in place, because otherwise you get that player
for one year and then they could play under the
franchise center and leave to go somewhere else. It doesn't
make a whole lot of sense. So if somebody has
been franchised they decide to finally trade them, they'll try
to make sure that a deal's in place, signed, sealed,
(12:18):
and delivered before they bring them in to their organization.
Speaker 7 (12:22):
Who is the backup quarterback after you left in New England.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Kevin O'Connell. So Kevin O'Connell was there, and then I
think they it was either the year I left or
the following year that they brought in Jimmy Garoppolo.
Speaker 7 (12:36):
Was O'Connell your backup.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
He was my backup, so they he was drafted in
like the second or third round. The fourth year. That's
the year that Brady went down. I was in my
final year my rookie contract, and they drafted him, and
I was like, oh boy, they already drafted my replacement.
So I'm like sitting there battling my off during training camp, saying, hey,
this is job security. I got to win this job
(12:59):
or they could maybe go with Kevin O'Connell, and luckily
I did, But all of a sudden, Brady goes down
and now Kevin O'Connell's my backup quarterback, So then it
was the two of us, and then maybe Matt Gutierres
they brought back as like a third string guy on
the team as well, and the following year they might
have drafted Jimmy. The next year if not, then Kevin,
(13:20):
I think, was the backup quarterback the next year.
Speaker 6 (13:22):
That's pretty cool. Your backups now the Vikings breaking head coach. Yeah,
it's all killing it.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
It's killing it. Yeah, I mean, and he's such a
good dude.
Speaker 7 (13:30):
Was he a dude though too? You could see being
a coach.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
I mean I say that, but it was probably later
on I started to see that that was the way
that he was going to go in his trajectory. Whereas
when you come in as a rookie quarterback, any rookie quarterback,
especially in that situation, you're kind of a fish out
of water. You're trying to find your footing, understand what's
(13:54):
going on all the different elaborate calls that we had
at the line of scrimmage, the checks. And I'd been
in that system for four years, so there was a
lot of a learning curve right there. But then as
the discussions progressed over the years, you start to see
immediately he oh, he gets it.
Speaker 7 (14:10):
Jeff Pearlman coming up next.
Speaker 6 (14:12):
He wrote books on Farv bo Jackson, the nineties, Dallas Cowboys,
Barry Bonds.
Speaker 7 (14:18):
He's got how many number one best sellers he have?
Speaker 6 (14:20):
Kevin ten number one bestsellers, Like he has a book
on Tupac coming out. He is literally one of my
favorite interviews that I can do, or anytime he's on
anything I watch, we will.
Speaker 7 (14:30):
Talk to him.
Speaker 6 (14:31):
Coming up next, I'd like to welcome Jeff Pearlman, who
I'd say is a friend. We never actually met in person,
(14:53):
but like he I don't know, we text him like
it's cool.
Speaker 7 (14:56):
I'm texting with Jeff Pearlman. Jeff, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
You know, I don't pick.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
My friends easy, but if I can find one on TikTok,
I'm all in.
Speaker 6 (15:02):
Yeah, a fun thing that have to because Jeff was
are you an adjunct professor?
Speaker 7 (15:09):
Would that be your title there?
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Corret?
Speaker 6 (15:12):
And so will you explain to Matt the project that
you did and that I was a part of.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, well, Matt, you should be warned. You're gonna now
You're gonna be roped into this.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
I can't wait.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
Yeah, I do a final proud.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I teach basically long form journalism at Chapman, not that
far from where you grew up.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
You know you knew chap Did you know Chapman growing up?
Speaker 5 (15:32):
I know Chapman?
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Yeah, aren't, aren't circle?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
So we taught a final lesson was every every student
we do a draft of notable people, and Bobby was
in this year's draft.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Fact, he was the number one pick.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
In the draft.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Oh and they have to write a you know, two
thousand word profile of the person. So I interview them,
interviewing some of people from their lives and write these
long pieces about them. So Bobby did go number one
in the draft. He can always hold that over you.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
Was there any stiff competition though? Is what I have?
The next question I have to ask, like who went
second in the draft?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Wait, I don't remember who went second in the draft.
It was you never do you know Marcus Latimore? Marcus
Latimore I think went second actually, And so that's a
pretty good pick right there. Yeah, you know Latimore on
our under projections we latimoer are going one bones going seventh.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
But so you I.
Speaker 7 (16:21):
Didn't know there was a projection list. I told Jeff,
I'm kidding, I said.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
I said, I'm happy to do it because whatever you
want me to do, I'm in I said, But I'm
so nervous about getting picked last. It's just like that,
you know, from being a kid. He had glass and
everything that was that was what I and she did good?
Speaker 5 (16:35):
Right?
Speaker 7 (16:36):
The grade was good?
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Yeah, she got a I mean, you know, you were
no Latimore, but you were very good.
Speaker 6 (16:41):
Nice, very very of course that's what I'm off and told.
You're no Latimore, but we'll take.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
You're the first overall picks. Right, let's go.
Speaker 6 (16:47):
I do want to start Jeff with a question about
something we've talked about on this show a whole bunch,
and I would just like your opinions that you wrote
on Barry Bonds.
Speaker 7 (16:53):
I have said, and it was a very hot take,
flaming hot.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
Nobody wants to touch it that I think Barry Bonds
was better at baseball than Michael Jordan was a basketball
What do you think about how that crazy hot take.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I mean, if you're in you have to throw in
the fact that he was using performance and enhancing drugs. Obviously,
all right, so we're saying that we're allowing that as
a thing. I probably would agree with you. I mean,
when I was covering Bonds, I was at Sports Illustrated
covering Bonds at his absolute freakish heyday, when he was
going over seventy at home runs.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
You couldn't pitch to him. I mean, the ultimate moment.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
For me was they were playing the Diamondbacks, bases reloaded
and Buck Shawalter walked him intentionally to walk in a
run because the fear of him hitting a Grand Slam
was so great. I mean, that doesn't happen. So he
definitely he was unpitchable. You could not pitch the Berry Bonds.
He had no weak spot in the strike zone. He
could turn on anyone's fastball. So, yeah, at his best,
juice or not, we're just saying whatever. He was as
(17:46):
as great a performer as you'll see.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
Yeah, I think juice counts because it was just what
we saw and what we got to live through. I
felt smoking hot take that he was. Nobody wanted to
face him ever. Were Jordan was one of five. It's
one on one with Bonds in the pitcher, you know,
and so I felt like you could double team Jordan
to make somebody else score. You really couldn't double team Bonds.
(18:08):
Well you can do is walk him or you could
hit him, And that was pretty much it.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
He was at a really unique place in his career.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
He basically had like when I was growing up, Ricky
Henderson had the impenetrable strike zone, Like you couldn't pitch
Ricky Henderson and Bonds is the only other guy I
knew who had that where he just he had an
incredible eye for the ball. You couldn't pitched from him.
It's not like you could fool him on pitches. He
had the Tony Gwinn intelligence, the Ricky Henderson strike zone,
(18:36):
and the Babe Ruth power all combined in one player.
So yeah, I mean, at his best, I've never seen
anyone like that.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
Because of the performance enhancing performance enhancing aspect to his career,
do you think that he doesn't get the credit for
being the Michael Jordan of batting that otherwise he would
if all these different stories didn't come out.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I think there's two things about it. I think number one,
he definitely gets an asterisk to his name by a
lot of people. I think number two, just being honest,
being completely honest about this, he was He was mean
to people like he was a mean guy. He was
a mean guy to cover, He was a mean guy
to teammates. He was a mean guyd of fans. He
was the kind of guy where like, in basic terms,
you hold the door for him, he doesn't say thank you.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
So and this is my last Bonds question, but where
do you think that is base like what's the truck?
Because I might have some traits about me that are great,
some that are awful based on how I grew up
and the circumstances I grew up in not good, but
have made me really strong in some ways and at
times like my human emotional intelligence isn't great.
Speaker 7 (19:40):
But where did what happened in Barry Bonds's life?
Speaker 6 (19:43):
Do you think, because you spent all this time learning
about him and talking to people that knew him from
all ages, why did he become a.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
I think it's a great question.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Actually, I think a lot of what happened with Bonds
has to do with being raised. So his dad, Bobby Bonds,
was a major league star. The other primary mayor role
model in his life who someone called his godfather.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Was Willie Mays.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And those two guys when they were playing baseball, it
was the era where the blackball players should just be
grateful for being here. And if a blackball player needed
a day off, he was a complainer. He was a
maligner for blackball player, asked for more and more, for
more money, he was ungrateful, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
And I really think Barry saw from those guys understandably
(20:24):
that like baseball wasn't going to treat you that well,
and you had to be your own guy. You had
to be resilient, you had to be a batter. You
couldn't take anything at face value. These guys were going
to pay your lip service, but they really weren't going
to treat you well. And I just think from Bonds
from Willie Mays, from being growing up in the clubhouse
around these guys, he developed a very severe shell that
(20:45):
came off in very prickly ways. I mean, Willie Mays
was not a fun guy to deal with. He was
a joyful baseball player. Willie Mays was kind of the
same way. Bobby Bond was kind of the same way.
They just developed a prickliness that didn't turn off Jeeff.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
You wrote the book Boys Will Be Boys, and it
was about the glory days of part Knights of Dallas Cowboys.
Now we all have heard these stories of the night
nineteen nineties cowboys and their partying ways. When you think
about those teams with all those different personalities, and then
I think at Jimmy Johnson, right, and he kind of
let them be themselves. How much of a role did
(21:18):
he play in the success of keeping that group together
and being able to go out and actually perform on
Sundays with all the chaos going on outside the building.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
So he was, it's kind of amazing, like their first
Super Bowl run. This is like Jimmy Johnson nuts out
their first Super Bowl run. They play a playoff game
against the Chicago Bears and they're winning big and laid
in the game, Jimmy Johnson inserts their backup running back
to him at Smith. This a guy named Curvin Richards
who had been a star pitch. I think he'd been
a fourth round pick the Cowboys. They insert him in
(21:49):
the game. Playoff game, Cowboys are winning dig insignificant fourth quarter,
Curvin Richards fumbles twice, and after the game, Jimmy Johnson
goes into Jerry Jones's office and says, I want to
cut Curvin Richards and Jimmy and Jerry Jones says, well,
it's too late. We can't cut him because we can't
(22:09):
replace his roster spot. I don't give a crap, we're
cutting that guy. I don't want that guy on my
team anymore. And he's like, are you sure you're gonna
have a man short cut him, and they cut Curvin Richards.
And it wasn't like Jimmy Johnson hated Curvin Richards. His
number one thing was I want to send a message
right to my team that like, I will do this
(22:29):
to you and the other thing he did that I like,
I don't know, kind of actually interested how you had
this in your career, Like he made it very clear,
I am not treating all of you the same, like
Trey Iigman, Emmett Smith, Charles Hally, Darren Woodson will get
better treatment than Clayton Holmes and Kevin Smith.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
Like that's just the way it is.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
And you guys need to know that with stardom comes
better treatment and more empathy and more understanding. And I
actually think the players who are lower on the totem
pole responded to that with fear fighting for your job
all the time, and the players like Aikman just felt
comfort in knowing that their coach out their back.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
I don't know if that's uncommon or not. You would actually
know better.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
Well, it's interesting because I played for Bill Belichick, and
Bill Belichick always treated everybody equally and nobody really got
special treatment. And I'm talking about from Brady to Randy Moss.
If you did something in a game that you need
to be called out for, he'd call you out in
front of the entire team. And so it was always
this interesting dynamic because you definitely felt it as a
young guy that you've got to step up, but you're
going to be held accountable in every phase. Now, other
(23:29):
coaches operate differently, and by that I mean same thing
that you just kind of discussed was certain players have
earned the right to not be thrown under the fire
in front of the team, maybe talk to individually or
have a discussion on the side, whereas the younger players
were the guys that were going to get most of
(23:51):
the criticism in those meetings. So it was all based
on the coach and what you would see. But Bill
Belichick did it completely different.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
What about like Todd Hayley or what about there's other
coaches you had.
Speaker 7 (24:03):
Were they different than Belichick in that way?
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Not so much like I remember Todd Haley. This is
a funny story. Jackie Battle was on kickoff team and
we had a kickoff or it was a punt team,
excuse me, and the ball was a touchback. Jackie Battle
wasn't even around the ball, but Todd thought that he
was the guy that was supposed to block it and
get us to get a little down ball inside the
ten yard line. Well, he's running off the sideline and
Jackie doesn't know what's going on. He can see Todd
(24:28):
yelling him. He's like, Jackie, you're just cut tomorrow. You're
cut tomorrow. And to Todd's credit, the next day he
found out it wasn't even Jackie battle it was another player,
and so he went up and said, Jackie, don'torry, your
job's safe for now because I realized that wasn't even you.
But I mean, he's coming off the field in the
first quarter of a game yell at him, you're cut,
(24:49):
your cut. So was he kind of had the same
He came from that parcels tree where he's gonna get
after you. He's gonna ride you, he's going to make
sure that you're accountable like that. So it's all based
on where these guys come from, in the pedigree that
they grew up in.
Speaker 6 (25:02):
With all the athletes that you've written, and you've written
a lot of books and a lot of great athletes.
And I use the word athlete because I'm gonna ask
about Bo Jackson. Was Bo Jackson the best athlete of
all of the athletes that you've covered, or did he
just choose wisely?
Speaker 7 (25:18):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
No, there's no there's no close second. There's no close second.
I mean it sounds fixed No, Okay, I acknowledge it
sounds fixed on. You're in a four to one three
forty at Auburn and he was two hundred and twenty
pounds in a track star. He shows up at the
Raiders and he puts on pads and Tom Flores as
a coach, and he's like, let's have you do a
(25:41):
forty almost for entertainment, and you're in a a four
to one nine, and they didn't believe it, so they
laid it out again and you're in a four to
one seven, Like he was propositible. I always say like
this is what I always say. People are like, uh,
Bo Jackson, I'm like, all right, there have been other
tyreek Hill super fast, right? Whoever? Barry Bond's super powerful.
(26:04):
The clip of Barry climbing up the wall in Baltimore,
literally running toward the wall thinking I can either stop
and pop something, run forward, running up the wall, running
across the wall, running down the wall. There's no other
footage of any other human doing that ever. Like, literally,
there's one person who has climbed up a Major League
baseball wall during a game, run across the wall, and
(26:27):
run down the wall, and that's Bo Jackson. I always
say that to me, is the perfect embodiment of who
he was. He's the only human being on the planet
who could run up the wall, run across the wall.
He was just the unparalleled merging of power and strength
and strength and speed. Just there's no one like it.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
How much money do you think he'd make in the
nil space now in today's college game?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I mean, I mean pick the max. He was playing
at Auburn. He was a super duper due. I mean,
it's funny like he was. You know, they're all getting
paid under the table back then, and in hindsight it
was his pennies he'd be. The one thing he lacked,
I mean, the one thing he actually lacked is charisma,
Like he was not a charismatic human being. He had
a stud he grew up with a stutter. It took
(27:07):
him a long time to feel confident talking. So I
don't know how great he would have been at that
stage in his life as a pitchman. Even if you
look at the bow Nos campaign Bono's Baseball, Bonos Football.
One of the great keys of that is you don't
have to say very much. It was a limited interactive
advertising series that worked wonders. So I think the one
thing he would trul like, he would not be a
TikTok superstar. He wouldn't be an Instagram superstar as a conversationalist.
(27:30):
But his athleticism was so freaky. The other thing is
it's a problem with nowadays, like a lot of bo
Jackson truly was the mythology of.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
It all, Like he ran a four one three forty.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
It has been documented, blah blah blah, but there is
no video of it, you know, like the people with
the Raiders swear they clocked him at four one nine
showed me the four to nine oclocking, but there's no
video of it. And there's something about seeing stuff that
actually removes the mythology of it all, Like once you
see it, it feels a little less. It's like Babe
Bruth's point to shots. The reason that's so mythological is
because we can't see it, And I feel like it's
(28:01):
the same thing with Bo Jackson, and once you splash
stuff on TikTok, it loses a little bit of like
shoe heyo tani. If he'd come along in the seventies,
we'd be talking about these things he did that you
wouldn't believe. But now we can see him and they
seem a little less believable, less amazing because we see him,
if that makes sense.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
Because Bo Jackson was from a small town and he
played these sports young. Was he like playing shortstop and
pitching and playing quarterback and where they put the best
athletes and then eventually he ends up being a running
back and an outfielder.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah, he was a pitcher who threw in the nineties.
He had no control. He played shortstop in high school.
I think he had forty something eras at shortstop, Like
he had no glove at shortstop. Was drafted by the
Yankees a little bit with the idea of being a shortstop.
Never signed with the Yankees, didn't play basketball, sucked to basket.
While was obviously really good at football, played played on
(29:08):
the defense, play you know, he played both ways back
then obviously, and he was just really drafted more than anything.
As this is supernova athlete you know who could do everything,
but he couldn't play basketball, couldn' dribble a lick of basketball.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
What do you think his career would have been if
he didn't get that injury to the hip against the Bengals?
What do you think the outlook of or the projection
of what he would have become.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
So I think he was a better football player than
a baseball player. Like I think in football he probably
has an Eric Dicker. You know that he's on that
conversation with Eric Dickers and a Walter Payton and Marcus
Allen and all those guys. I think in baseball, his
thing about baseball was he never like he never because
he chose to play football. He never took the time
(29:52):
to learn the things in baseball you need to learn.
Pitch selection, reading the motion, reading a defense, looking where
the second basement is playing, none of that stuff at all.
So like physically he was compared to a Roberto Clemente
and Mike Out, a Mickey Mantle. I think realistically, if
he'd continued to play, he probably would have had a
Gary Sheffield type career, which is a great career and
(30:14):
a borderline Hall of Fame career. I think football was
definitely a better sport, but he was exceptional both. I
mean he's an All Star in baseball and a pro
bowler in football.
Speaker 7 (30:21):
I do want to go over to Brett Favre.
Speaker 6 (30:22):
A lot of people don't know about the car accident
that almost killed Brett, and you wrote about it in
your book. Tell us about that and just talk about
it from the beginning of bit, because again I didn't
know about it until I read it.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Oh my god, Wow, it was at Southern Miss. He
almost died. Like that's the thing people don't know about
Brett Farv. He almost died in a car accident, had
to miss. I forgot what year was. I wrote that
book a while and now I forgot what year.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Was he missed.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
But the basic idea was he wouldn't play football again.
At first was he's not going to play this season.
Then it's like he's not going to play the end
of the season. But then five just shows up and
plays like the guy was Just say what you want
about there's a lot of good, there's a lot of bad.
Like what he developed at Southern Miss was his air
(31:10):
of indestructibility, you know, Like I mean, first, this is
off topic, a little but first game ever, he wasn't
even really on the depth chart and they're playing Toulane
and the coach throws him in late Favar Dad.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
I think he said he had eighteen beers a night before.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
And he's on the sideline and the head coach is like, Bret,
you're going in, and he vomits all over the sideline,
goes in and beats Tulane. Like, no matter what that
guy did, almost dying a car accident, eighteen beers waste
on the sideline, He's just always found a way. So
he was supposed to be dead and instead he winds
up just playing.
Speaker 5 (31:42):
In your opinion, what was it about Farv that people
just gravitated to and drew them about his play on
the field.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
You know what's funny, Like he just had this thing
like the years, I would say, the post retirement years
have not been kind to Brett Favre reputation wise. We
take the Jen Sturger thing, the Mississippi welfare thing. The
thing that was really interesting.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
About him is like.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Guys just like felt him, Like you could believe you
could be a black wide receiver from LA, you could
be a running back from the sticks of Louisiana. He
had this way of really relating to people and this
awe shucks thing about relating to people, and also like
I will die for you, Like there are a million
clips of Brett Fire throwing these ridiculous blocks on like
(32:30):
end a rounds where a lot of quarterbacks might sind
a skirt out of the way a little bit. He
just would freaking die for you. That was the biggest thing.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
About Farv, you know. And like he was factually likable.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
He was beers after the game in an era where
I was fading out.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
He was, Oh, you.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Want to hang out, Let's go duck hunting, Let's go here,
blah blah blah. Black wide receivers love that guy. The
offensive lineman, the white guys who went hunting love that guy.
Like he had a very unique relatability. It's one of
the things I think that happened to Aaron Rodgers in
a way is he walked into a trap in Green
Bay because Aaron Rodgers isn't that guy. Wasn't that guy,
couldn't be that guy. But people were so used to
(33:08):
that guy in Fire. But there's only there are very
few guys like that, like a Terry Bradshaw, that.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Type of guy. You know.
Speaker 6 (33:13):
We're just a few months out from the Tupac book
coming out, Why Tupac.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
Love.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Tupac felt like there'd never been a definitive, definitive, definitive
interviewed six hundred and fifty people, dig fully into his life,
book written, I want to try something beyond sports, and
all my books have been sports, my career has been sports, and.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
I just thought, here's the guy.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
I'm genuinely fascinated by, a guy whose music speaks to me,
and I thought, why not a white sports writer?
Speaker 4 (33:40):
You know, why not? That's the one thing my agent
said to me. I'm gonna be honest.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
My agent's like, he's like, you know, there's gonna be
some people are going to be like, why a white
sports writer?
Speaker 4 (33:51):
And I think it's a fair question.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
And I just from the beginning, I'd be like, because
I'm fascinated by this guy, and there's a book out
there that I want to read that I haven't seen yet,
so I'm going to try writing it.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
When you say you interviewed six hundred and fifty people,
which I believe you obviously, Yeah, talk to me about
how much information of that six hundred and fifty interviews.
You actually use or just use this cross referencing to
make sure that I am just it's so interesting to
me that you can go and go into that much
detail but take six hundred and fifty references for one book.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Yeah, it drives me crazy.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
It's so like.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Example I use a lot is like, all right, Tubac
went to the Baltimore Score of Performing Arts for two years.
That was his high school, and I got all the yearbooks. Right,
So you go in there and you go name by
names of the yearbooks and you literally make a file
for everyone, not just as classmates, but everyone who is there, teachers, staff, janitors,
et cetera. And one by one you reach out to
(34:44):
these people and like, in a way, the best example
I use is like Brett Fire. Right, you work on
a Brett fire. This is my guiding principle in life. Actually,
as a journalist, Brett Fahre played all those years of football.
At some point there was a free agent running back
from Lehigh in training camp with the Packers. Right, he
(35:05):
was there for three weeks. Brett Favre isn't going to
remember anything. He probably wouldn't even remember that guy existed
Bob Jones from Lehigh. But Bob Jones from Lehigh is
going to remember the one time Brett Farev walked up
to him and offered him a bag of pringles, Right,
Bob Jones is going to remember that for the rest
of his life. The free agent from Lehigh who's telling
that story at family reunions, barbecues, etc.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
For the rest of his life. That's the same with Tupac.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
At Baltimore School for the Arts, you find the one
person who's like, oh, yeah, I used to have lunch
with him on Tuesdays. He always drank blank or I
was in his class. So one thing I remember is
I always used to listen to this Kate Bush song
blah blah blah. So like, out of the six hundred
and fifty interviews, I probably quote three hundred of the
people directly of the information I get, Like the ten
(35:51):
thousand pages of information, I probably used three percent, right,
like in the book, literally three percent. But even knowing
it could be someone could be like, blah blah blah
blah blah, boring, boring, boring, boring. You know, Tupac always
used to drink diet pepsi bingo, like that little detail
tells you something different than he used to drink soda.
He used to drink diet pepsi. It tells you something
(36:12):
about someone. So you're always just looking for those little details,
scouring the little details, if that makes sense.
Speaker 7 (36:18):
Jeff Perlman, you got to follow my TikTok.
Speaker 6 (36:19):
He's the best and the book's coming out and if
you're just a sports fan and no more time. But
his book Showtime ended up being winning Time. So about
the Lakers was a.
Speaker 7 (36:29):
Great series which should have never been canceled. Stupid COVID.
Speaker 6 (36:32):
One of the worst things about COVID other than people dying, obviously,
that show was canceled because it was an excellent show.
And congratulations on everything. We really appreciate the time, Jeff.
Speaker 5 (36:40):
Oh, thank you so much to thanks Jeff.
Speaker 7 (36:57):
Let's play a game, Kevin. What is the game called?
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Start, cut and bench?
Speaker 5 (37:03):
Oh?
Speaker 7 (37:03):
It was just like f Mary kill.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yeah, pretty much football version of it.
Speaker 7 (37:06):
Yeah, God, so start how about start bench? Cute?
Speaker 3 (37:11):
I guess that.
Speaker 5 (37:13):
They can't even get to the bench.
Speaker 6 (37:14):
By the way, how do you say the game? And
I'm gonna do my hands so physically, but how do
you say this game?
Speaker 5 (37:19):
Rock Paper scissors?
Speaker 6 (37:20):
Interesting because I don't say it in that that that order.
Speaker 5 (37:23):
How do you say it paper rock scissors.
Speaker 6 (37:26):
I've never met anybody that says scissors, paper rock.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
Or no one leaves paper rock scissors for sure.
Speaker 7 (37:32):
I would say rock, paper scissors. What would you say, Brandon?
Speaker 6 (37:36):
You would say paper, that's weird. I say rock, rock,
paper paper scissors.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (37:40):
Yeah, what do you say?
Speaker 5 (37:42):
I said rock, paper sciss Yeah.
Speaker 7 (37:44):
No, you said paper rocks.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
Now you said paper yeah?
Speaker 6 (37:48):
Okay, yeah, I would say paper rock scissors. What are
we gonn play? Let's do Let's say let's do paper
rock scissors. Perfect, that's what would say.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Let's play start bench cut?
Speaker 6 (37:56):
Okay, before we get to start bench cut. What do
you call those things at the movies? They're run before
the movie starts, previews, got it?
Speaker 5 (38:06):
What do you call them trailers? Well?
Speaker 6 (38:08):
I don't call them trailers, but there is a large
contingent of people who call them trailers, the people in
the biz or the people I don't know. The two
people I know are from the Midwest.
Speaker 5 (38:20):
So they refer to them as Oh, I'm gonna get
there early and watch.
Speaker 6 (38:23):
The trail trailers because they are trailers. But I would say, previews, previous,
what do you call what do you call if you're
gonna go get a soda from the gas station, what
do you call it?
Speaker 5 (38:34):
I don't call it a pop. I call it a soda.
Speaker 6 (38:36):
You would even call it a soda. See what we
call everything was a coke I'm from, Everything was a coke.
Speaker 5 (38:40):
Yeah. That was the weird part. Because my family, my
cousins and stuff, grew up in Ohio. They either called
it a coke or a pop.
Speaker 6 (38:49):
And it was always said innsta for me now because
I've had to learn to adapt to the just not
have a super distinct Southern dialect.
Speaker 5 (38:59):
Yeah, because a coke you could still say a coke
where you're from.
Speaker 6 (39:02):
Okay, it could be a sprite, oh for sure. It
almost was never the actual Coca Cola product. Hey, what
do you want to drink?
Speaker 7 (39:08):
Give me a coke? What kind mark pepper?
Speaker 5 (39:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (39:12):
Interesting anyway, just vernacular exercise.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Little regional thing there.
Speaker 7 (39:15):
Yeah, okay, So the game is called.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Start bench cut.
Speaker 7 (39:19):
Start start bench scissors starts.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Yeah, so you gotta start one. You got a bench
one and you gotta cut one. I'm gonna go through
five colleges. Now, these are the players quarterbacks in their
college days, not NFL, just when they were in college
playing for these programs.
Speaker 7 (39:33):
Okay, we'll take turns going first. Okay, so first on
the first one.
Speaker 5 (39:36):
All right?
Speaker 3 (39:36):
Number one is Oklahoma Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, and Caleb Williams.
Speaker 5 (39:43):
Okay, I'm going to start.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
Did all three one?
Speaker 5 (39:50):
Yes? Wow?
Speaker 6 (39:51):
Because I started to go well, Caleb won all three,
won the Heisman.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
Start Kyler Murray. Now, oh only, but we're talking about
when they're in college college, yep. Start Kyler Murray, bench
Baker Mayfield, and cut my boy Williams.
Speaker 6 (40:10):
Okay, I'm going to start Baker Mayfield. And I'm gonna
tell you why the dude was a walk on twice
was awesome and because all three of these guys are elite,
which is what makes the game hard and fun. The
fact that he was a walk on at Tech and
went over to Oklahoma and did the same freaking thing.
(40:31):
And didn't Kyler wait on Baker Mayfield to graduate before
he even got to start. Yeah, Like Baker stayed in
I think an extra year or two, and Kyler just
stayed in sat and then balled out.
Speaker 7 (40:43):
I'm gonna go.
Speaker 6 (40:44):
I'm gonna start Baker, okay, although I'm gonna have to
pay him more in IL money probably than the other
two because he had a big, bigger personality than the
other two, and personalities really that plus talent equals in IL.
So Baker, I'm gonna bench Kyler just like in the
old days. Yes, and then I'm gonna cut Caleb, who
(41:04):
didn't play on the team.
Speaker 5 (41:05):
He was like four, well he was only he was
only there also for like a year.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Yeah, but he bawled out when he came in for Rattler.
Speaker 5 (41:12):
Yeah right, he did. He bawled out, and he left
for this coach. But he left. Yeah, so I mean
the cut that he kind of cut himself.
Speaker 6 (41:18):
He did win the freaking Heisman though, as to all
us see though, yeah, yeah, it's pretty amazing the Heisman.
Speaker 7 (41:25):
I know, you don't count. You can't count as us.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
I think he said college he did, yeah, yeah, but
for the but he he was at Oklahoma technically technical,
you know, so if they're all on the same team,
and yeah, if he won the Heisman, just not out
all right, what else?
Speaker 4 (41:37):
Right?
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Number two, I'll go that one. Florida, Danny Warfel, Tim
Tebow and Rex Grossman.
Speaker 6 (41:43):
Okay, I'm going Tebow number one, Yeah, without a doubt.
And speaking of which, n I all money you got,
we have none left after Baker. But I'm talking about
we are deep in debt, were deep and yeah what
t bo is and he's donating at all too, like
we just yeah we got Yeah, babies are getting circumcised
in every country, Pilgrimage. I'm going t bow at one.
(42:10):
And you had to Warfle on who Grossman?
Speaker 5 (42:12):
Rex Grossman? Did Warfel win a national championships.
Speaker 7 (42:16):
There with with Florida? But uh, I believe he did.
Speaker 6 (42:22):
You should fact check me on this, yep, because I
believe the old ball coat. I mean that that was all.
I'm gonna go Warful. I'm just going for memory though,
like who do I remember more playing?
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Yeah, ninety six?
Speaker 7 (42:34):
They wanted title, right, they want it.
Speaker 6 (42:35):
Yeah, I'm gonna go Warful and then Grossman.
Speaker 7 (42:40):
But Grossman, I don't know. Grossman was so good.
Speaker 5 (42:44):
I know it's good.
Speaker 6 (42:45):
I'm letting his NFL days, I know, which is unfair
because warfle didn't have the run Grossman had in the NFL.
But because we didn't see him as much, we don't
think of him being terrible because Grossman with.
Speaker 5 (42:55):
The Bears went to the super Bowl.
Speaker 6 (42:57):
Yes, but I'm telling you the gross in my mind,
Grossman the Bears went to the super Bowl in lieu
of the defense, in spite of Grossman. Then yeah, and
it's not fair because that's not true. But I'm gonna
go Warful then Grossman.
Speaker 5 (43:11):
I'm gonna do the exact same. Yeah, it's I mean,
Warful won a national championship. Tim Tebow's Tim Tebow the
next coming, and Rex Grossman was an outstanding quarterback in college.
But between those two, that's where I'm going.
Speaker 6 (43:25):
The negative association I have with Grossman is totally unfair,
though it is. It is he gets a bad rap yep.
And because and I'm gonna tell you what else is unfair.
I think a Grossman with the Bears, and I also
think of Mitch Trubisky with the Bears, who had a
lot of hypeen didn't play.
Speaker 7 (43:41):
So then I associate associate those two together. So then
I feel worse about Grossman because.
Speaker 6 (43:44):
I feel like he's Mitch Trubisky and they picked him
over Mahomes Like this is my mind goes, oh wow, yeah,
that's a rabbit hole, Like Grossman compared to my homes.
Speaker 7 (43:54):
Yeah, all three are awesome. All right, Next up, Okay, Oregon.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
Here you got Marcus Mariota, Justin Herbert, and Joey Harrington.
Speaker 5 (44:01):
Okay, I'm going with Marcus Mariota, start, Joey Harrington bench,
and I'm going with Justin Herbert. Cut.
Speaker 7 (44:12):
I'm gonna go the same.
Speaker 6 (44:14):
Recency bias maybe a bit here, but I'm also the
reason I'm gonna go with Well, it starts with Mariota.
Speaker 7 (44:21):
I remember Marioda and we were up there there there's
a whole facility.
Speaker 5 (44:23):
It's the most amazing facility ever. It's like the little island, yes,
crazy island, with all of his high school teammates and
everything there. He's a god.
Speaker 6 (44:31):
And Joey Harrington was on the cover of College Football
back in the day PlayStation, so that automatically gets him
on the team.
Speaker 5 (44:36):
Can the team a billboard that they had for his
high school trophy.
Speaker 7 (44:39):
In New York?
Speaker 5 (44:39):
Right?
Speaker 7 (44:40):
They put up in New York.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
Yah, they put it up in New York. It was
just joe super tall, super tall.
Speaker 7 (44:44):
That was it. Okay, we're the same on that one.
Give us another one.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Okay, Texas, here you got Vince Young, nun eliminate them all.
Goldon McCloy, Vince Young, and Chris Simms, just as you said.
Speaker 6 (44:56):
So, Yeah, the Chris Simms issue that I have is
I was there whenever it was Sims and apple White,
and Sims was brought in as the big five star.
Speaker 7 (45:05):
Apple White was.
Speaker 6 (45:05):
Still winning, and it was constant Who's going to start,
and there was like drama and apple got hurt, and.
Speaker 7 (45:13):
So that I was just annoyed by the whole situation.
Sims is third.
Speaker 5 (45:17):
You don't like the controversy.
Speaker 6 (45:19):
I don't like Texas, and so that that made me.
Vince Young did win a national championship, Yes, yes, sorry
against your boys.
Speaker 5 (45:30):
I know that was that was probably the greatest, maybe
one of probably the greatest college football game of all time.
Speaker 7 (45:36):
Yeah, I was.
Speaker 5 (45:38):
I was living in winners just in that game. Reggie Bush,
Matt lion Art and did Vince.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
Young he lost the line, he lost the line.
Speaker 6 (45:45):
But also USC they had Bush, they had thunder and lightning,
Reggie Berry, Wayne, Jared, Mike Williams. I'm gonna go Vince Young,
then Colt McCoy and Vince gets it because but Vince
was like Cam Newton, unstopped.
Speaker 5 (46:05):
You an absolute fan of nature.
Speaker 6 (46:06):
He was, and we've again I'm not associated the NFL.
I shouldn't do anything NFL.
Speaker 5 (46:11):
Dual threat quarterback everything.
Speaker 7 (46:12):
Yeah, Vince Young, Cole McCoy and Chris Sims.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
You do, Matt, same thing, same thing, all right? Last
one here usc boom. Okay, we got Carson Palmer, Matt
Lioner and our boy Mediccastle.
Speaker 5 (46:25):
Are we talking just about college? Yeah?
Speaker 7 (46:27):
Can we can we kill? Can we put the kill
one back in?
Speaker 5 (46:32):
Well, I'm cutting liner because that means I'm playing.
Speaker 7 (46:34):
That's funny, that's funny.
Speaker 5 (46:37):
All right. Well, if we're talking just about college, I
mean I played with all these dudes. Seapawk is the
most physically impressive human I've ever been around. Before. We
called him seapowk Carson Palmer special number one draft pick.
Speaker 7 (46:53):
Overall physically Why because I don't think of him.
Speaker 5 (46:56):
He's six', five barrel, chested has an absolute cannon for an.
Arm footwork like he's six,' one like his feet were
just dynamic when it talked about perfect, footwork dropbacks, you
know like with those old clips that used See if
akeman just. In rhythm this guy had it all and not,
ONLY that i think he ran a four or five
or six. Coming out i'm.
Speaker 6 (47:16):
Glad you, said that because did you guys think of
him as like a superior as a. Superior, quarterback yes
but obviously we didn't. Know him he was a.
Speaker 5 (47:25):
Freak out.
Speaker 7 (47:26):
THAT'S crazy i didn't.
Speaker 5 (47:27):
Know that or.
Speaker 6 (47:28):
Six, five wow, he's white so he, seems slow and he's,
a quarterback so he, seems slow.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
And he stands. Super tall, so yeah it's.
Speaker 5 (47:37):
That big and he was at a TIME where usc
was struggling and kind of brought us back, into prominence
like when his senior year when he came back and
made the decision to. Come back we went To The
orange bowl and WE beat i think It was iowa
for the First First orange. Bowl victory that's really What
Set pete carroll up in that kind. Of dynasty but
(47:58):
he took the program to the. Next LEVEL so i
gotta Go With. CARSON palmer i LIKE how i stated,
the first BUT you're i have to Go With. Matt
leonard obviously he both Those Guys heisman, trophy Winners but
matt won what two national championships back, to back AND then,
I mean i would still like to be on. The team,
but obviously if we've got to have a spot for
we got a spot. For you Thanks. Coach carol that's
(48:24):
EXACTLY what i came. Here for go get my head.
Speaker 6 (48:26):
Beat, IN yeah I guess i gotta go with the
same out, of, loyalty though you, Know what i'm Gonna
put castle in my. Back, up yeah the guy did.
Great work it's a back up later. In life, you
know we can't, go there but in the verse.
Speaker 5 (48:37):
Two it was a. Starter, too okay don't get don't.
Kid yourself.
Speaker 7 (48:40):
That's right thank you guys. For listening HERE'S what i can't.
Speaker 5 (48:44):
Wait.
Speaker 6 (48:44):
For football we've done this podcast now for months and
months without. Any football we've gone through the Absolute heart
we started What, In, december yeah like when it, was
over except for like The.
Speaker 5 (48:55):
Super bowl we we got to talk about the playoffs
with The, super bowl and then it was just off.
Season minutia we have just been grinding. Through it i'm
ready to talk about. Real Football wins comedia days. Next week,
next week the twenty second through the, Twenty fourth so
we've got four teams a day for three. Days straight it'll.
Be fun well maybe more. Than that how many teams
(49:15):
They have now.
Speaker 7 (49:16):
What do, You, mean oh you mean like they take,
the podium.
Speaker 5 (49:18):
Why they take. The putum so we'll do interviews on.
The side so what every every big NETWORK, like nbccbs Whoever,
had fox they'll all have their own space and rooms,
set up so you'll come in and they'll do individual
interviews with. COACHES players i might do something on the
side for their socials to talk to some of the
quarterbacks and do, all that and then it's just about
(49:40):
interactions with the coaches on. The field and then they'll
go up and they'll they've GOT about i think five
ten minutes on the podium and kind of talk about,
their program promote, their program give us kind of their
feelings about this. Upcoming season it might, be schedule and
then at night they'll have some dinners that you get
to go to and once again rub elbows with these
guys and kind of talk to them and get to
(50:01):
know them a little. Bit more so it's it's a
fun time and it's also a great kickoff for. The
season it's.
Speaker 6 (50:06):
Probably fun to go in like other, sports people probably other.
Speaker 5 (50:11):
Ex. Players, thanks yeah it's. A blast it's. A blast so,
it's uh it's Three days it's like truly the kickoff
to get going for, college football and then it starts
at the END of Uh into august's. Last week august
is our. First game.
Speaker 6 (50:26):
Passed, ALONG hello i got two. Bros coaching who You
Got Barry Oda Purdue. Arry oda that's, my dude. New
coach he was just here a few. Weeks ago i'm
excited his daughter To Meet. LANNY wilson i remember you, Saying,
that yeah he's.
Speaker 7 (50:38):
The best And Then. Brett bilama those are.
Speaker 5 (50:42):
My dudes he's. A study we talked about him.
Speaker 7 (50:44):
Last week then my. Warm, regards okay. That's it thank.
You guys we'll see you. Next week That's. My castle, That's.
Kickoff kevin That Is brandon ray doing all.
Speaker 6 (50:52):
The video Thanks To. Jeff pearlman be sure if you
like the idea of his two point booker any of his.
Speaker 7 (50:56):
Other books he is such a. Great writer checking out
and Go To jeff pearlman dot com or just go
to a social and you'll see at all.
Speaker 5 (51:03):
The Acts I'm.
Speaker 7 (51:03):
Bobby bohms we've had lots, To say you us.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
Lots to Say With bobby Bones And matt castle is
a production OF the nfl And. iHeart podcasts for more Podcasts,
from iHeartRadio Visit the, iHeartRadio App, apple podcasts or wherever
you get. Your podcasts
Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle is
a production of the NFL and iHeart podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We got Lost, Just say.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
We got lost?
Speaker 4 (00:17):
Just say.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
What begger? And we hope you stay because we got lost?
Speaker 5 (00:24):
Just say, yeah, we got lost.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Just say here's Bobby.
Speaker 5 (00:32):
That everybody welcome to the show. Ay.
Speaker 6 (00:35):
Question, when you've played and I know, the culture of
jersey swapping and signing wasn't a thing, at least not
as outwardly.
Speaker 7 (00:42):
Did you guys do that? Did you have anybody's jersey
from when you played against?
Speaker 4 (00:45):
It?
Speaker 5 (00:45):
Like?
Speaker 7 (00:45):
Can I get your jersey?
Speaker 5 (00:46):
No? I'm thinking back, I would have probably liked to
try to get some of these guys that I played
against and opponents that you just have a ton of
respect for. But it really didn't come become popular until
later in my career when some of these younger guys
started to go out and swap jerseys and do all that.
And I thought, man, that I really missed the boat
on that one. What I had a stacked up jersey case,
(01:08):
you know.
Speaker 6 (01:09):
If he could go back and get one, yeah, oh yeah,
that's good.
Speaker 5 (01:13):
I mean far as I've said multiple times on this
show that he was just my childhood hero. One of
those guys that I'd watch religiously had the Brett fav
cleats in high school, you know, just and then also
it goes back to my playing days when my first
start in New England in the NFL was against the
Jets and Brett Favre was a quarterback and he was
the first guy to come up right after the game,
(01:35):
even though they lost, shake my hand and say, I'm
really excited for you. That was such a big moment
for me.
Speaker 7 (01:40):
Did he know you were a fan or was he
just that person?
Speaker 5 (01:45):
He was just that person. He had that type of
polarizing personality that it was infectious and you could tell,
like the way he played on the field was also
how he interacted with you before the game after the game,
and so that was cool to see that in person
and actually have him come up because I really hadn't
had any interaction with him prior to that.
Speaker 7 (02:05):
Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
It was pretty cool.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
I did a deal once where I went up and
I worked out with the Cardinals and we were just
shooting some content and I'm a Cubs fan, so it's
weird for me to wear anything Cardinals, but also I'm
an adult now, so it's fine.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
So, yeah, I'm not a game.
Speaker 6 (02:19):
It's not as romantic as I'm never wearing Cardinals, although
I'd still really struggle putting on at Texas Longhorns anything.
Speaker 7 (02:25):
But you know what, oh Arkansas.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Oh man.
Speaker 7 (02:28):
It's like, yeah, it's inside of me.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
But I go up and we are shooting the stuff
and Paul Golschmidt comes out, who's not with the Yankees,
and he's had an awesome career probably will be a
Hall of Famer, and we're interviewing him and he was like,
you know, I used to listen to you when I
was in college. I was like twenty four and he
was like twenty one. He's like, I used to listen
to you in college when I was playing baseball. And
(02:50):
I was like, no way goes Yeah, we listen to
you every morning, like, And so I took the microphone.
Speaker 7 (02:56):
This is such a stupid story, but I like it already.
Speaker 6 (02:59):
I took the microphone I was using and small flex here,
but I was the youngest person ever put into the
Radio Hall of Fame and so nobody cares though, so
it's really small, and so I signed it and then
I traded him a signed microphone for one of his
sign bats.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
That's cool.
Speaker 7 (03:16):
It was fun and he thought it was funny.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
And so I still have the Paul Golschmidt signed bat
from his locker.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
That's rad. Yeah, And that's a good exchange right there.
See that.
Speaker 6 (03:25):
And so I told him, I said, you're getting a
Hall of Famer. I'm getting hopefully one, you know. And
luckily he's a good sport. Have you watched any of
the Quarterback series on Netflix.
Speaker 5 (03:35):
I've watched a little bit of it.
Speaker 7 (03:37):
Have you watched season one or season two or both?
Speaker 5 (03:39):
I think it was season one with Mahomes Mariota. Was
Cousins in that one as well. Yes, he was in
two seasons.
Speaker 7 (03:46):
Right, So Cousins is still on this season on this season?
Speaker 5 (03:49):
Okay?
Speaker 6 (03:49):
So, and I watched sum of season one. I felt
it was a little corny at times, and I don't
think it was the players. I think it was just
how they would do the games. It just felt I
liked it, right, but there was a corniness to it
that didn't keep me completely invested.
Speaker 7 (04:04):
So I just want clips.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
But it did make me like Kirk Cousins because he
didn't have anything to me other than wearing coming out
wearing the chain. I didn't understand like Kirk Cousins are
and understand what he was as a person, and not
that a TV show gives you everything about a person,
but it made me like Kirk Cousins right.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
He's a straight laced, really good dude, like solid dude,
solid human being, right, and there's no ego involved. He's
a true professional in every sense of the word word.
And you can definitely see that as the season goes on,
that his dedication to his craft, to being the quarterback,
the responsibility that comes along with that, and then going
(04:41):
out and trying to perform at a high level. I
do believe that that show gives you great insight into
the stresses and what takes place during a season, whether
it's battling minor injuries or whether it's you know, you
go through a difficult loss, and just the logistics that
go on in a season, because a lot of time
(05:01):
you just see the byproduct of all the hard work
that got put in during the week. You just see
the final outcome on a Sunday, but you don't really
understand how much preparation and work goes into a weekly
based on a weekly basis to perform on Sunday.
Speaker 6 (05:15):
There's a scene in this season where it's Kirk Cousins's
wife talking about getting the call from the coach saying, hey,
we need to talk. Cousins goes in basically as told
you're not the starter anymore. And then Cousins comes home
and is obviously upset, sad, disappointed, whatever it is, understands
(05:39):
but is all of that. And then she walks and
she sees him talking to Michael Pennix on the phone
like this is your job now, Like you got to
get this.
Speaker 7 (05:46):
You've been waiting for this.
Speaker 6 (05:47):
How common is it that one quarterback would do something
like that when they get pitched for the second quarterback?
Speaker 5 (05:54):
You know, I had a similar situation, I believe when
I was in my last year in Kansas City and
Brady Quinn was our backup quarterback. Romeo Cornell was our
now our head coach. She was then interroom head coach
after Todd Haley got fired my third year, and I
was just coming back off of a concussion and so
I thought I was going to come back in and play.
I sat out one week. Brady started that week, and
(06:16):
I thought I was coming back and it was going
to be my job still. And I got called in
and he said, hey, Matt, I know that this is
tough circumstances, but we're going to go with Brady this
week again. And you know, nothing really prepares you for
that type of conversation when you're the starter and you
envision yourself as a starter, and it is a gut
(06:37):
punch for sure, but you have two different ways in
which you can handle it. You can pout, you can
get pissed off. You can be that guy that becomes
a distraction, or you're a guy that spends a lot
of time with these other quarterbacks. You spend so much
time throughout the course of a year with these quarterbacks.
They're all your buddies and your friends. And so I
went up to Brady and I said, hey, I just
got the news you're going to be starting this week.
(06:59):
And look, at the end of the day, I'm going
to be your biggest supporter. I'm not here to try to,
you know, go behind your back. Can you know, rally
these guys against you. If that's their decision, that's their decision.
And it takes you know, you got to put on
your big boy pants when that happens, because you have
to swallow your pride a little bit, and it's a
difficult circumstance. But I don't know. I've also been around
(07:20):
people that it doesn't always go that way, and they
go into meetings, they could become a shell of themselves.
You can openly see it on their face in which
they're not there for the team, they're there for themselves,
so to speak. And so at some point, especially when
you play a team sport, I think the biggest thing
that you've got a first and foremost do is you
know you got to suck it up and do what's
(07:41):
best for the team, even though you might not agree
with it.
Speaker 6 (07:43):
If they were shooting this with the Patriots back when
you played, imagine the season where Brady gets hurt and
you go in, like, what do you think of three
main storylines would have been?
Speaker 5 (07:53):
Well, obviously a kid that hadn't started since high school
would be the number one storyline there. I think it
would be the relationship in the dynamic between Bill Belichick
and how he's going to get this young upstart going
and give him confidence. Because he handled me differently than
he had in years past when I was just the backup.
He didn't ride me as much. He definitely held me
(08:14):
accountble don't get me wrong, but he'll he brought me in.
I remember one day we had lost to the San
Diego Chargers at the time, and we got beat pretty substantially,
and I was wavering a little bit, just because you're
still trying to earn the confidence of your teammates. At
that point, he said, look, Matt, we're not bringing anybody
(08:34):
else in. We've got you. We believe in you. And
that was different because I hadn't had any discussion like
that with him before, one on one where he came
up and openly said positive things and tried to reinforce that, hey,
you're here for a reason. Now just go out and
do your job with the best of your ability. And
we think that that that'll be enough. And so I
think that that dynamic would be interesting. And then there's
(08:58):
also the Brady Castle relationship throughout the course. Oh my goodness,
Tom Brady, right now, Tom, Tom, hold on, I'll tell
you talk to you right after that about cover two
defense and why I should have run instead of thrown
that ball into a double defense. No, but then there's
that relationship, and I think it was an interesting dynamic
because of everything he was going through with the surgery,
and then at the same time something went wrong with
(09:20):
the surgery they had to go back in and all
that stuff. But then the conversations that we would have
on a weekly basis and the support factor that he
had was definitely an interesting storyline. Maybe not as much
as we started to win games and started to see
these guys and these veteran guys like Rodney Harrison and
Matt Light and all the guys that I had had
relationships with rally around me, Teddy Bruski, and the confidence
(09:44):
that started to breed through the team, even though they
knew Tom Brady was in the shadows and was going
to come back at some point, but started the belief
within the building and not listening to all the other
people talk about, well, they're done for the year, they
can't do anything. Because the quarterback situations a major issue.
Speaker 7 (10:04):
Were you trade right after that season?
Speaker 5 (10:06):
I was traded so at first because of the situation
with Tom's knee and how long it would take. They
franchised me. So I was franchised, so I was under contract,
and then.
Speaker 7 (10:17):
At the season start with you on the team.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
No, the next season did not start so we're so.
Scott Pioli, who was the head of player personnel with
New England, got the GM job with New with the
Kansas City Chiefs, and then shortly thereafter I got a
phone call from Bill Belichick that said he was making
the trade for me and I was going to Kansas City.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
Is that because they knew or they felt pretty positive
about Brady's knee actually being able to and then they
held on to you just in case, right right.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
And I think that I was the backup plan again,
just in case he wasn't ready to go. They knew
that they had somebody that could go out and win games,
and so instead of just letting me become a free agent,
they had me as an emergency plan basically under a
franchise tender, with the understanding that they had control over
my rights and could trade me anywhere.
Speaker 6 (11:07):
If you get traded and you're tagged, So if you
get tagged it's one year and it's like the average
of the top five quarterback or whatever it was, that's
a significant bump. And if you get franchised for that
year but you're traded, do you still get paid the
same amount that they franchised you for for that year,
So I.
Speaker 5 (11:23):
Was traded under the franchise tag for the one year
franchise tag, so I didn't have to sign a long
term deal with Kansas City. But what it does do
is gives you a bargaining chip for as you said,
the average of the top five players at that position,
that that's my starting point for year one moving forward
to sign a long term deal. So I signed a
six year deal with them. But that was kind of
(11:45):
the bargain ships that we had was, hey, well this
is our starting point, which was pretty significant at that
point in my career obviously.
Speaker 6 (11:52):
So when they trade a franchise player, they're trading the
franchised one year contract.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Right, And a lot of times the other organization will
not make a trade for a player until they get
a deal in place, because otherwise you get that player
for one year and then they could play under the
franchise center and leave to go somewhere else. It doesn't
make a whole lot of sense. So if somebody has
been franchised they decide to finally trade them, they'll try
to make sure that a deal's in place, signed, sealed,
(12:18):
and delivered before they bring them in to their organization.
Speaker 7 (12:22):
Who is the backup quarterback after you left in New England.
Speaker 5 (12:24):
Kevin O'Connell. So Kevin O'Connell was there, and then I
think they it was either the year I left or
the following year that they brought in Jimmy Garoppolo.
Speaker 7 (12:36):
Was O'Connell your backup.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
He was my backup, so they he was drafted in
like the second or third round. The fourth year. That's
the year that Brady went down. I was in my
final year my rookie contract, and they drafted him, and
I was like, oh boy, they already drafted my replacement.
So I'm like sitting there battling my off during training camp, saying, hey,
this is job security. I got to win this job
(12:59):
or they could maybe go with Kevin O'Connell, and luckily
I did, But all of a sudden, Brady goes down
and now Kevin O'Connell's my backup quarterback, So then it
was the two of us, and then maybe Matt Gutierres
they brought back as like a third string guy on
the team as well, and the following year they might
have drafted Jimmy. The next year if not, then Kevin,
(13:20):
I think, was the backup quarterback the next year.
Speaker 6 (13:22):
That's pretty cool. Your backups now the Vikings breaking head coach. Yeah,
it's all killing it.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
It's killing it. Yeah, I mean, and he's such a
good dude.
Speaker 7 (13:30):
Was he a dude though too? You could see being
a coach.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
I mean I say that, but it was probably later
on I started to see that that was the way
that he was going to go in his trajectory. Whereas
when you come in as a rookie quarterback, any rookie quarterback,
especially in that situation, you're kind of a fish out
of water. You're trying to find your footing, understand what's
(13:54):
going on all the different elaborate calls that we had
at the line of scrimmage, the checks. And I'd been
in that system for four years, so there was a
lot of a learning curve right there. But then as
the discussions progressed over the years, you start to see
immediately he oh, he gets it.
Speaker 7 (14:10):
Jeff Pearlman coming up next.
Speaker 6 (14:12):
He wrote books on Farv bo Jackson, the nineties, Dallas Cowboys,
Barry Bonds.
Speaker 7 (14:18):
He's got how many number one best sellers he have?
Speaker 6 (14:20):
Kevin ten number one bestsellers, Like he has a book
on Tupac coming out. He is literally one of my
favorite interviews that I can do, or anytime he's on
anything I watch, we will.
Speaker 7 (14:30):
Talk to him.
Speaker 6 (14:31):
Coming up next, I'd like to welcome Jeff Pearlman, who
I'd say is a friend. We never actually met in person,
(14:53):
but like he I don't know, we text him like
it's cool.
Speaker 7 (14:56):
I'm texting with Jeff Pearlman. Jeff, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
You know, I don't pick.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
My friends easy, but if I can find one on TikTok,
I'm all in.
Speaker 6 (15:02):
Yeah, a fun thing that have to because Jeff was
are you an adjunct professor?
Speaker 7 (15:09):
Would that be your title there?
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Corret?
Speaker 6 (15:12):
And so will you explain to Matt the project that
you did and that I was a part of.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, well, Matt, you should be warned. You're gonna now
You're gonna be roped into this.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
I can't wait.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
Yeah, I do a final proud.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I teach basically long form journalism at Chapman, not that
far from where you grew up.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
You know you knew chap Did you know Chapman growing up?
Speaker 5 (15:32):
I know Chapman?
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Yeah, aren't, aren't circle?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
So we taught a final lesson was every every student
we do a draft of notable people, and Bobby was
in this year's draft.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Fact, he was the number one pick.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
In the draft.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Oh and they have to write a you know, two
thousand word profile of the person. So I interview them,
interviewing some of people from their lives and write these
long pieces about them. So Bobby did go number one
in the draft. He can always hold that over you.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
Was there any stiff competition though? Is what I have?
The next question I have to ask, like who went
second in the draft?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Wait, I don't remember who went second in the draft.
It was you never do you know Marcus Latimore? Marcus
Latimore I think went second actually, And so that's a
pretty good pick right there. Yeah, you know Latimore on
our under projections we latimoer are going one bones going seventh.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
But so you I.
Speaker 7 (16:21):
Didn't know there was a projection list. I told Jeff,
I'm kidding, I said.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
I said, I'm happy to do it because whatever you
want me to do, I'm in I said, But I'm
so nervous about getting picked last. It's just like that,
you know, from being a kid. He had glass and
everything that was that was what I and she did good?
Speaker 5 (16:35):
Right?
Speaker 7 (16:36):
The grade was good?
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Yeah, she got a I mean, you know, you were
no Latimore, but you were very good.
Speaker 6 (16:41):
Nice, very very of course that's what I'm off and told.
You're no Latimore, but we'll take.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
You're the first overall picks. Right, let's go.
Speaker 6 (16:47):
I do want to start Jeff with a question about
something we've talked about on this show a whole bunch,
and I would just like your opinions that you wrote
on Barry Bonds.
Speaker 7 (16:53):
I have said, and it was a very hot take,
flaming hot.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
Nobody wants to touch it that I think Barry Bonds
was better at baseball than Michael Jordan was a basketball
What do you think about how that crazy hot take.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I mean, if you're in you have to throw in
the fact that he was using performance and enhancing drugs. Obviously,
all right, so we're saying that we're allowing that as
a thing. I probably would agree with you. I mean,
when I was covering Bonds, I was at Sports Illustrated
covering Bonds at his absolute freakish heyday, when he was
going over seventy at home runs.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
You couldn't pitch to him. I mean, the ultimate moment.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
For me was they were playing the Diamondbacks, bases reloaded
and Buck Shawalter walked him intentionally to walk in a
run because the fear of him hitting a Grand Slam
was so great. I mean, that doesn't happen. So he
definitely he was unpitchable. You could not pitch the Berry Bonds.
He had no weak spot in the strike zone. He
could turn on anyone's fastball. So, yeah, at his best,
juice or not, we're just saying whatever. He was as
(17:46):
as great a performer as you'll see.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
Yeah, I think juice counts because it was just what
we saw and what we got to live through. I
felt smoking hot take that he was. Nobody wanted to
face him ever. Were Jordan was one of five. It's
one on one with Bonds in the pitcher, you know,
and so I felt like you could double team Jordan
to make somebody else score. You really couldn't double team Bonds.
(18:08):
Well you can do is walk him or you could
hit him, And that was pretty much it.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
He was at a really unique place in his career.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
He basically had like when I was growing up, Ricky
Henderson had the impenetrable strike zone, Like you couldn't pitch
Ricky Henderson and Bonds is the only other guy I
knew who had that where he just he had an
incredible eye for the ball. You couldn't pitched from him.
It's not like you could fool him on pitches. He
had the Tony Gwinn intelligence, the Ricky Henderson strike zone,
(18:36):
and the Babe Ruth power all combined in one player.
So yeah, I mean, at his best, I've never seen
anyone like that.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
Because of the performance enhancing performance enhancing aspect to his career,
do you think that he doesn't get the credit for
being the Michael Jordan of batting that otherwise he would
if all these different stories didn't come out.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I think there's two things about it. I think number one,
he definitely gets an asterisk to his name by a
lot of people. I think number two, just being honest,
being completely honest about this, he was He was mean
to people like he was a mean guy. He was
a mean guy to cover, He was a mean guy
to teammates. He was a mean guyd of fans. He
was the kind of guy where like, in basic terms,
you hold the door for him, he doesn't say thank you.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
So and this is my last Bonds question, but where
do you think that is base like what's the truck?
Because I might have some traits about me that are great,
some that are awful based on how I grew up
and the circumstances I grew up in not good, but
have made me really strong in some ways and at
times like my human emotional intelligence isn't great.
Speaker 7 (19:40):
But where did what happened in Barry Bonds's life?
Speaker 6 (19:43):
Do you think, because you spent all this time learning
about him and talking to people that knew him from
all ages, why did he become a.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
I think it's a great question.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Actually, I think a lot of what happened with Bonds
has to do with being raised. So his dad, Bobby Bonds,
was a major league star. The other primary mayor role
model in his life who someone called his godfather.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Was Willie Mays.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And those two guys when they were playing baseball, it
was the era where the blackball players should just be
grateful for being here. And if a blackball player needed
a day off, he was a complainer. He was a
maligner for blackball player, asked for more and more, for
more money, he was ungrateful, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
And I really think Barry saw from those guys understandably
(20:24):
that like baseball wasn't going to treat you that well,
and you had to be your own guy. You had
to be resilient, you had to be a batter. You
couldn't take anything at face value. These guys were going
to pay your lip service, but they really weren't going
to treat you well. And I just think from Bonds
from Willie Mays, from being growing up in the clubhouse
around these guys, he developed a very severe shell that
(20:45):
came off in very prickly ways. I mean, Willie Mays
was not a fun guy to deal with. He was
a joyful baseball player. Willie Mays was kind of the
same way. Bobby Bond was kind of the same way.
They just developed a prickliness that didn't turn off Jeeff.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
You wrote the book Boys Will Be Boys, and it
was about the glory days of part Knights of Dallas Cowboys.
Now we all have heard these stories of the night
nineteen nineties cowboys and their partying ways. When you think
about those teams with all those different personalities, and then
I think at Jimmy Johnson, right, and he kind of
let them be themselves. How much of a role did
(21:18):
he play in the success of keeping that group together
and being able to go out and actually perform on
Sundays with all the chaos going on outside the building.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
So he was, it's kind of amazing, like their first
Super Bowl run. This is like Jimmy Johnson nuts out
their first Super Bowl run. They play a playoff game
against the Chicago Bears and they're winning big and laid
in the game, Jimmy Johnson inserts their backup running back
to him at Smith. This a guy named Curvin Richards
who had been a star pitch. I think he'd been
a fourth round pick the Cowboys. They insert him in
(21:49):
the game. Playoff game, Cowboys are winning dig insignificant fourth quarter,
Curvin Richards fumbles twice, and after the game, Jimmy Johnson
goes into Jerry Jones's office and says, I want to
cut Curvin Richards and Jimmy and Jerry Jones says, well,
it's too late. We can't cut him because we can't
(22:09):
replace his roster spot. I don't give a crap, we're
cutting that guy. I don't want that guy on my
team anymore. And he's like, are you sure you're gonna
have a man short cut him, and they cut Curvin Richards.
And it wasn't like Jimmy Johnson hated Curvin Richards. His
number one thing was I want to send a message
right to my team that like, I will do this
(22:29):
to you and the other thing he did that I like,
I don't know, kind of actually interested how you had
this in your career, Like he made it very clear,
I am not treating all of you the same, like
Trey Iigman, Emmett Smith, Charles Hally, Darren Woodson will get
better treatment than Clayton Holmes and Kevin Smith.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
Like that's just the way it is.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
And you guys need to know that with stardom comes
better treatment and more empathy and more understanding. And I
actually think the players who are lower on the totem
pole responded to that with fear fighting for your job
all the time, and the players like Aikman just felt
comfort in knowing that their coach out their back.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
I don't know if that's uncommon or not. You would actually
know better.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
Well, it's interesting because I played for Bill Belichick, and
Bill Belichick always treated everybody equally and nobody really got
special treatment. And I'm talking about from Brady to Randy Moss.
If you did something in a game that you need
to be called out for, he'd call you out in
front of the entire team. And so it was always
this interesting dynamic because you definitely felt it as a
young guy that you've got to step up, but you're
going to be held accountable in every phase. Now, other
(23:29):
coaches operate differently, and by that I mean same thing
that you just kind of discussed was certain players have
earned the right to not be thrown under the fire
in front of the team, maybe talk to individually or
have a discussion on the side, whereas the younger players
were the guys that were going to get most of
(23:51):
the criticism in those meetings. So it was all based
on the coach and what you would see. But Bill
Belichick did it completely different.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
What about like Todd Hayley or what about there's other
coaches you had.
Speaker 7 (24:03):
Were they different than Belichick in that way?
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Not so much like I remember Todd Haley. This is
a funny story. Jackie Battle was on kickoff team and
we had a kickoff or it was a punt team,
excuse me, and the ball was a touchback. Jackie Battle
wasn't even around the ball, but Todd thought that he
was the guy that was supposed to block it and
get us to get a little down ball inside the
ten yard line. Well, he's running off the sideline and
Jackie doesn't know what's going on. He can see Todd
(24:28):
yelling him. He's like, Jackie, you're just cut tomorrow. You're
cut tomorrow. And to Todd's credit, the next day he
found out it wasn't even Jackie battle it was another player,
and so he went up and said, Jackie, don'torry, your
job's safe for now because I realized that wasn't even you.
But I mean, he's coming off the field in the
first quarter of a game yell at him, you're cut,
(24:49):
your cut. So was he kind of had the same
He came from that parcels tree where he's gonna get
after you. He's gonna ride you, he's going to make
sure that you're accountable like that. So it's all based
on where these guys come from, in the pedigree that
they grew up in.
Speaker 6 (25:02):
With all the athletes that you've written, and you've written
a lot of books and a lot of great athletes.
And I use the word athlete because I'm gonna ask
about Bo Jackson. Was Bo Jackson the best athlete of
all of the athletes that you've covered, or did he
just choose wisely?
Speaker 7 (25:18):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
No, there's no there's no close second. There's no close second.
I mean it sounds fixed No, Okay, I acknowledge it
sounds fixed on. You're in a four to one three
forty at Auburn and he was two hundred and twenty
pounds in a track star. He shows up at the
Raiders and he puts on pads and Tom Flores as
a coach, and he's like, let's have you do a
(25:41):
forty almost for entertainment, and you're in a a four
to one nine, and they didn't believe it, so they
laid it out again and you're in a four to
one seven, Like he was propositible. I always say like
this is what I always say. People are like, uh,
Bo Jackson, I'm like, all right, there have been other
tyreek Hill super fast, right? Whoever? Barry Bond's super powerful.
(26:04):
The clip of Barry climbing up the wall in Baltimore,
literally running toward the wall thinking I can either stop
and pop something, run forward, running up the wall, running
across the wall, running down the wall. There's no other
footage of any other human doing that ever. Like, literally,
there's one person who has climbed up a Major League
baseball wall during a game, run across the wall, and
(26:27):
run down the wall, and that's Bo Jackson. I always
say that to me, is the perfect embodiment of who
he was. He's the only human being on the planet
who could run up the wall, run across the wall.
He was just the unparalleled merging of power and strength
and strength and speed. Just there's no one like it.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
How much money do you think he'd make in the
nil space now in today's college game?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I mean, I mean pick the max. He was playing
at Auburn. He was a super duper due. I mean,
it's funny like he was. You know, they're all getting
paid under the table back then, and in hindsight it
was his pennies he'd be. The one thing he lacked,
I mean, the one thing he actually lacked is charisma,
Like he was not a charismatic human being. He had
a stud he grew up with a stutter. It took
(27:07):
him a long time to feel confident talking. So I
don't know how great he would have been at that
stage in his life as a pitchman. Even if you
look at the bow Nos campaign Bono's Baseball, Bonos Football.
One of the great keys of that is you don't
have to say very much. It was a limited interactive
advertising series that worked wonders. So I think the one
thing he would trul like, he would not be a
TikTok superstar. He wouldn't be an Instagram superstar as a conversationalist.
(27:30):
But his athleticism was so freaky. The other thing is
it's a problem with nowadays, like a lot of bo
Jackson truly was the mythology of.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
It all, Like he ran a four one three forty.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
It has been documented, blah blah blah, but there is
no video of it, you know, like the people with
the Raiders swear they clocked him at four one nine
showed me the four to nine oclocking, but there's no
video of it. And there's something about seeing stuff that
actually removes the mythology of it all, Like once you
see it, it feels a little less. It's like Babe
Bruth's point to shots. The reason that's so mythological is
because we can't see it, And I feel like it's
(28:01):
the same thing with Bo Jackson, and once you splash
stuff on TikTok, it loses a little bit of like
shoe heyo tani. If he'd come along in the seventies,
we'd be talking about these things he did that you
wouldn't believe. But now we can see him and they
seem a little less believable, less amazing because we see him,
if that makes sense.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
Because Bo Jackson was from a small town and he
played these sports young. Was he like playing shortstop and
pitching and playing quarterback and where they put the best
athletes and then eventually he ends up being a running
back and an outfielder.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah, he was a pitcher who threw in the nineties.
He had no control. He played shortstop in high school.
I think he had forty something eras at shortstop, Like
he had no glove at shortstop. Was drafted by the
Yankees a little bit with the idea of being a shortstop.
Never signed with the Yankees, didn't play basketball, sucked to basket.
While was obviously really good at football, played played on
(29:08):
the defense, play you know, he played both ways back
then obviously, and he was just really drafted more than anything.
As this is supernova athlete you know who could do everything,
but he couldn't play basketball, couldn' dribble a lick of basketball.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
What do you think his career would have been if
he didn't get that injury to the hip against the Bengals?
What do you think the outlook of or the projection
of what he would have become.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
So I think he was a better football player than
a baseball player. Like I think in football he probably
has an Eric Dicker. You know that he's on that
conversation with Eric Dickers and a Walter Payton and Marcus
Allen and all those guys. I think in baseball, his
thing about baseball was he never like he never because
he chose to play football. He never took the time
(29:52):
to learn the things in baseball you need to learn.
Pitch selection, reading the motion, reading a defense, looking where
the second basement is playing, none of that stuff at all.
So like physically he was compared to a Roberto Clemente
and Mike Out, a Mickey Mantle. I think realistically, if
he'd continued to play, he probably would have had a
Gary Sheffield type career, which is a great career and
(30:14):
a borderline Hall of Fame career. I think football was
definitely a better sport, but he was exceptional both. I
mean he's an All Star in baseball and a pro
bowler in football.
Speaker 7 (30:21):
I do want to go over to Brett Favre.
Speaker 6 (30:22):
A lot of people don't know about the car accident
that almost killed Brett, and you wrote about it in
your book. Tell us about that and just talk about
it from the beginning of bit, because again I didn't
know about it until I read it.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Oh my god, Wow, it was at Southern Miss. He
almost died. Like that's the thing people don't know about
Brett Farv. He almost died in a car accident, had
to miss. I forgot what year was. I wrote that
book a while and now I forgot what year.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Was he missed.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
But the basic idea was he wouldn't play football again.
At first was he's not going to play this season.
Then it's like he's not going to play the end
of the season. But then five just shows up and
plays like the guy was Just say what you want
about there's a lot of good, there's a lot of bad.
Like what he developed at Southern Miss was his air
(31:10):
of indestructibility, you know, Like I mean, first, this is
off topic, a little but first game ever, he wasn't
even really on the depth chart and they're playing Toulane
and the coach throws him in late Favar Dad.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
I think he said he had eighteen beers a night before.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
And he's on the sideline and the head coach is like, Bret,
you're going in, and he vomits all over the sideline,
goes in and beats Tulane. Like, no matter what that
guy did, almost dying a car accident, eighteen beers waste
on the sideline, He's just always found a way. So
he was supposed to be dead and instead he winds
up just playing.
Speaker 5 (31:42):
In your opinion, what was it about Farv that people
just gravitated to and drew them about his play on
the field.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
You know what's funny, Like he just had this thing
like the years, I would say, the post retirement years
have not been kind to Brett Favre reputation wise. We
take the Jen Sturger thing, the Mississippi welfare thing. The
thing that was really interesting.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
About him is like.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Guys just like felt him, Like you could believe you
could be a black wide receiver from LA, you could
be a running back from the sticks of Louisiana. He
had this way of really relating to people and this
awe shucks thing about relating to people, and also like
I will die for you, Like there are a million
clips of Brett Fire throwing these ridiculous blocks on like
(32:30):
end a rounds where a lot of quarterbacks might sind
a skirt out of the way a little bit. He
just would freaking die for you. That was the biggest thing.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
About Farv, you know. And like he was factually likable.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
He was beers after the game in an era where
I was fading out.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
He was, Oh, you.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Want to hang out, Let's go duck hunting, Let's go here,
blah blah blah. Black wide receivers love that guy. The
offensive lineman, the white guys who went hunting love that guy.
Like he had a very unique relatability. It's one of
the things I think that happened to Aaron Rodgers in
a way is he walked into a trap in Green
Bay because Aaron Rodgers isn't that guy. Wasn't that guy,
couldn't be that guy. But people were so used to
(33:08):
that guy in Fire. But there's only there are very
few guys like that, like a Terry Bradshaw, that.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Type of guy. You know.
Speaker 6 (33:13):
We're just a few months out from the Tupac book
coming out, Why Tupac.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
Love.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Tupac felt like there'd never been a definitive, definitive, definitive
interviewed six hundred and fifty people, dig fully into his life,
book written, I want to try something beyond sports, and
all my books have been sports, my career has been sports, and.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
I just thought, here's the guy.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
I'm genuinely fascinated by, a guy whose music speaks to me,
and I thought, why not a white sports writer?
Speaker 4 (33:40):
You know, why not? That's the one thing my agent
said to me. I'm gonna be honest.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
My agent's like, he's like, you know, there's gonna be
some people are going to be like, why a white
sports writer?
Speaker 4 (33:51):
And I think it's a fair question.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
And I just from the beginning, I'd be like, because
I'm fascinated by this guy, and there's a book out
there that I want to read that I haven't seen yet,
so I'm going to try writing it.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
When you say you interviewed six hundred and fifty people,
which I believe you obviously, Yeah, talk to me about
how much information of that six hundred and fifty interviews.
You actually use or just use this cross referencing to
make sure that I am just it's so interesting to
me that you can go and go into that much
detail but take six hundred and fifty references for one book.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Yeah, it drives me crazy.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
It's so like.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Example I use a lot is like, all right, Tubac
went to the Baltimore Score of Performing Arts for two years.
That was his high school, and I got all the yearbooks. Right,
So you go in there and you go name by
names of the yearbooks and you literally make a file
for everyone, not just as classmates, but everyone who is there, teachers, staff, janitors,
et cetera. And one by one you reach out to
(34:44):
these people and like, in a way, the best example
I use is like Brett Fire. Right, you work on
a Brett fire. This is my guiding principle in life. Actually,
as a journalist, Brett Fahre played all those years of football.
At some point there was a free agent running back
from Lehigh in training camp with the Packers. Right, he
(35:05):
was there for three weeks. Brett Favre isn't going to
remember anything. He probably wouldn't even remember that guy existed
Bob Jones from Lehigh. But Bob Jones from Lehigh is
going to remember the one time Brett Farev walked up
to him and offered him a bag of pringles, Right,
Bob Jones is going to remember that for the rest
of his life. The free agent from Lehigh who's telling
that story at family reunions, barbecues, etc.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
For the rest of his life. That's the same with Tupac.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
At Baltimore School for the Arts, you find the one
person who's like, oh, yeah, I used to have lunch
with him on Tuesdays. He always drank blank or I
was in his class. So one thing I remember is
I always used to listen to this Kate Bush song
blah blah blah. So like, out of the six hundred
and fifty interviews, I probably quote three hundred of the
people directly of the information I get, Like the ten
(35:51):
thousand pages of information, I probably used three percent, right,
like in the book, literally three percent. But even knowing
it could be someone could be like, blah blah blah
blah blah, boring, boring, boring, boring. You know, Tupac always
used to drink diet pepsi bingo, like that little detail
tells you something different than he used to drink soda.
He used to drink diet pepsi. It tells you something
(36:12):
about someone. So you're always just looking for those little details,
scouring the little details, if that makes sense.
Speaker 7 (36:18):
Jeff Perlman, you got to follow my TikTok.
Speaker 6 (36:19):
He's the best and the book's coming out and if
you're just a sports fan and no more time. But
his book Showtime ended up being winning Time. So about
the Lakers was a.
Speaker 7 (36:29):
Great series which should have never been canceled. Stupid COVID.
Speaker 6 (36:32):
One of the worst things about COVID other than people dying, obviously,
that show was canceled because it was an excellent show.
And congratulations on everything. We really appreciate the time, Jeff.
Speaker 5 (36:40):
Oh, thank you so much to thanks Jeff.
Speaker 7 (36:57):
Let's play a game, Kevin. What is the game called?
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Start, cut and bench?
Speaker 5 (37:03):
Oh?
Speaker 7 (37:03):
It was just like f Mary kill.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yeah, pretty much football version of it.
Speaker 7 (37:06):
Yeah, God, so start how about start bench? Cute?
Speaker 3 (37:11):
I guess that.
Speaker 5 (37:13):
They can't even get to the bench.
Speaker 6 (37:14):
By the way, how do you say the game? And
I'm gonna do my hands so physically, but how do
you say this game?
Speaker 5 (37:19):
Rock Paper scissors?
Speaker 6 (37:20):
Interesting because I don't say it in that that that order.
Speaker 5 (37:23):
How do you say it paper rock scissors.
Speaker 6 (37:26):
I've never met anybody that says scissors, paper rock.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
Or no one leaves paper rock scissors for sure.
Speaker 7 (37:32):
I would say rock, paper scissors. What would you say, Brandon?
Speaker 6 (37:36):
You would say paper, that's weird. I say rock, rock,
paper paper scissors.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (37:40):
Yeah, what do you say?
Speaker 5 (37:42):
I said rock, paper sciss Yeah.
Speaker 7 (37:44):
No, you said paper rocks.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
Now you said paper yeah?
Speaker 6 (37:48):
Okay, yeah, I would say paper rock scissors. What are
we gonn play? Let's do Let's say let's do paper
rock scissors. Perfect, that's what would say.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Let's play start bench cut?
Speaker 6 (37:56):
Okay, before we get to start bench cut. What do
you call those things at the movies? They're run before
the movie starts, previews, got it?
Speaker 5 (38:06):
What do you call them trailers? Well?
Speaker 6 (38:08):
I don't call them trailers, but there is a large
contingent of people who call them trailers, the people in
the biz or the people I don't know. The two
people I know are from the Midwest.
Speaker 5 (38:20):
So they refer to them as Oh, I'm gonna get
there early and watch.
Speaker 6 (38:23):
The trail trailers because they are trailers. But I would say, previews, previous,
what do you call what do you call if you're
gonna go get a soda from the gas station, what
do you call it?
Speaker 5 (38:34):
I don't call it a pop. I call it a soda.
Speaker 6 (38:36):
You would even call it a soda. See what we
call everything was a coke I'm from, Everything was a coke.
Speaker 5 (38:40):
Yeah. That was the weird part. Because my family, my
cousins and stuff, grew up in Ohio. They either called
it a coke or a pop.
Speaker 6 (38:49):
And it was always said innsta for me now because
I've had to learn to adapt to the just not
have a super distinct Southern dialect.
Speaker 5 (38:59):
Yeah, because a coke you could still say a coke
where you're from.
Speaker 6 (39:02):
Okay, it could be a sprite, oh for sure. It
almost was never the actual Coca Cola product. Hey, what
do you want to drink?
Speaker 7 (39:08):
Give me a coke? What kind mark pepper?
Speaker 5 (39:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (39:12):
Interesting anyway, just vernacular exercise.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Little regional thing there.
Speaker 7 (39:15):
Yeah, okay, So the game is called.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Start bench cut.
Speaker 7 (39:19):
Start start bench scissors starts.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Yeah, so you gotta start one. You got a bench
one and you gotta cut one. I'm gonna go through
five colleges. Now, these are the players quarterbacks in their
college days, not NFL, just when they were in college
playing for these programs.
Speaker 7 (39:33):
Okay, we'll take turns going first. Okay, so first on
the first one.
Speaker 5 (39:36):
All right?
Speaker 3 (39:36):
Number one is Oklahoma Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, and Caleb Williams.
Speaker 5 (39:43):
Okay, I'm going to start.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
Did all three one?
Speaker 5 (39:50):
Yes? Wow?
Speaker 6 (39:51):
Because I started to go well, Caleb won all three,
won the Heisman.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
Start Kyler Murray. Now, oh only, but we're talking about
when they're in college college, yep. Start Kyler Murray, bench
Baker Mayfield, and cut my boy Williams.
Speaker 6 (40:10):
Okay, I'm going to start Baker Mayfield. And I'm gonna
tell you why the dude was a walk on twice
was awesome and because all three of these guys are elite,
which is what makes the game hard and fun. The
fact that he was a walk on at Tech and
went over to Oklahoma and did the same freaking thing.
(40:31):
And didn't Kyler wait on Baker Mayfield to graduate before
he even got to start. Yeah, Like Baker stayed in
I think an extra year or two, and Kyler just
stayed in sat and then balled out.
Speaker 7 (40:43):
I'm gonna go.
Speaker 6 (40:44):
I'm gonna start Baker, okay, although I'm gonna have to
pay him more in IL money probably than the other
two because he had a big, bigger personality than the
other two, and personalities really that plus talent equals in IL.
So Baker, I'm gonna bench Kyler just like in the
old days. Yes, and then I'm gonna cut Caleb, who
(41:04):
didn't play on the team.
Speaker 5 (41:05):
He was like four, well he was only he was
only there also for like a year.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Yeah, but he bawled out when he came in for Rattler.
Speaker 5 (41:12):
Yeah right, he did. He bawled out, and he left
for this coach. But he left. Yeah, so I mean
the cut that he kind of cut himself.
Speaker 6 (41:18):
He did win the freaking Heisman though, as to all
us see though, yeah, yeah, it's pretty amazing the Heisman.
Speaker 7 (41:25):
I know, you don't count. You can't count as us.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
I think he said college he did, yeah, yeah, but
for the but he he was at Oklahoma technically technical,
you know, so if they're all on the same team,
and yeah, if he won the Heisman, just not out
all right, what else?
Speaker 4 (41:37):
Right?
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Number two, I'll go that one. Florida, Danny Warfel, Tim
Tebow and Rex Grossman.
Speaker 6 (41:43):
Okay, I'm going Tebow number one, Yeah, without a doubt.
And speaking of which, n I all money you got,
we have none left after Baker. But I'm talking about
we are deep in debt, were deep and yeah what
t bo is and he's donating at all too, like
we just yeah we got Yeah, babies are getting circumcised
in every country, Pilgrimage. I'm going t bow at one.
(42:10):
And you had to Warfle on who Grossman?
Speaker 5 (42:12):
Rex Grossman? Did Warfel win a national championships.
Speaker 7 (42:16):
There with with Florida? But uh, I believe he did.
Speaker 6 (42:22):
You should fact check me on this, yep, because I
believe the old ball coat. I mean that that was all.
I'm gonna go Warful. I'm just going for memory though,
like who do I remember more playing?
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Yeah, ninety six?
Speaker 7 (42:34):
They wanted title, right, they want it.
Speaker 6 (42:35):
Yeah, I'm gonna go Warful and then Grossman.
Speaker 7 (42:40):
But Grossman, I don't know. Grossman was so good.
Speaker 5 (42:44):
I know it's good.
Speaker 6 (42:45):
I'm letting his NFL days, I know, which is unfair
because warfle didn't have the run Grossman had in the NFL.
But because we didn't see him as much, we don't
think of him being terrible because Grossman with.
Speaker 5 (42:55):
The Bears went to the super Bowl.
Speaker 6 (42:57):
Yes, but I'm telling you the gross in my mind,
Grossman the Bears went to the super Bowl in lieu
of the defense, in spite of Grossman. Then yeah, and
it's not fair because that's not true. But I'm gonna
go Warful then Grossman.
Speaker 5 (43:11):
I'm gonna do the exact same. Yeah, it's I mean,
Warful won a national championship. Tim Tebow's Tim Tebow the
next coming, and Rex Grossman was an outstanding quarterback in college.
But between those two, that's where I'm going.
Speaker 6 (43:25):
The negative association I have with Grossman is totally unfair,
though it is. It is he gets a bad rap yep.
And because and I'm gonna tell you what else is unfair.
I think a Grossman with the Bears, and I also
think of Mitch Trubisky with the Bears, who had a
lot of hypeen didn't play.
Speaker 7 (43:41):
So then I associate associate those two together. So then
I feel worse about Grossman because.
Speaker 6 (43:44):
I feel like he's Mitch Trubisky and they picked him
over Mahomes Like this is my mind goes, oh wow, yeah,
that's a rabbit hole, Like Grossman compared to my homes.
Speaker 7 (43:54):
Yeah, all three are awesome. All right, Next up, Okay, Oregon.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
Here you got Marcus Mariota, Justin Herbert, and Joey Harrington.
Speaker 5 (44:01):
Okay, I'm going with Marcus Mariota, start, Joey Harrington bench,
and I'm going with Justin Herbert. Cut.
Speaker 7 (44:12):
I'm gonna go the same.
Speaker 6 (44:14):
Recency bias maybe a bit here, but I'm also the
reason I'm gonna go with Well, it starts with Mariota.
Speaker 7 (44:21):
I remember Marioda and we were up there there there's
a whole facility.
Speaker 5 (44:23):
It's the most amazing facility ever. It's like the little island, yes,
crazy island, with all of his high school teammates and
everything there. He's a god.
Speaker 6 (44:31):
And Joey Harrington was on the cover of College Football
back in the day PlayStation, so that automatically gets him
on the team.
Speaker 5 (44:36):
Can the team a billboard that they had for his
high school trophy.
Speaker 7 (44:39):
In New York?
Speaker 5 (44:39):
Right?
Speaker 7 (44:40):
They put up in New York.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
Yah, they put it up in New York. It was
just joe super tall, super tall.
Speaker 7 (44:44):
That was it. Okay, we're the same on that one.
Give us another one.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Okay, Texas, here you got Vince Young, nun eliminate them all.
Goldon McCloy, Vince Young, and Chris Simms, just as you said.
Speaker 6 (44:56):
So, Yeah, the Chris Simms issue that I have is
I was there whenever it was Sims and apple White,
and Sims was brought in as the big five star.
Speaker 7 (45:05):
Apple White was.
Speaker 6 (45:05):
Still winning, and it was constant Who's going to start,
and there was like drama and apple got hurt, and.
Speaker 7 (45:13):
So that I was just annoyed by the whole situation.
Sims is third.
Speaker 5 (45:17):
You don't like the controversy.
Speaker 6 (45:19):
I don't like Texas, and so that that made me.
Vince Young did win a national championship, Yes, yes, sorry
against your boys.
Speaker 5 (45:30):
I know that was that was probably the greatest, maybe
one of probably the greatest college football game of all time.
Speaker 7 (45:36):
Yeah, I was.
Speaker 5 (45:38):
I was living in winners just in that game. Reggie Bush,
Matt lion Art and did Vince.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
Young he lost the line, he lost the line.
Speaker 6 (45:45):
But also USC they had Bush, they had thunder and lightning,
Reggie Berry, Wayne, Jared, Mike Williams. I'm gonna go Vince Young,
then Colt McCoy and Vince gets it because but Vince
was like Cam Newton, unstopped.
Speaker 5 (46:05):
You an absolute fan of nature.
Speaker 6 (46:06):
He was, and we've again I'm not associated the NFL.
I shouldn't do anything NFL.
Speaker 5 (46:11):
Dual threat quarterback everything.
Speaker 7 (46:12):
Yeah, Vince Young, Cole McCoy and Chris Sims.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
You do, Matt, same thing, same thing, all right? Last
one here usc boom. Okay, we got Carson Palmer, Matt
Lioner and our boy Mediccastle.
Speaker 5 (46:25):
Are we talking just about college? Yeah?
Speaker 7 (46:27):
Can we can we kill? Can we put the kill
one back in?
Speaker 5 (46:32):
Well, I'm cutting liner because that means I'm playing.
Speaker 7 (46:34):
That's funny, that's funny.
Speaker 5 (46:37):
All right. Well, if we're talking just about college, I
mean I played with all these dudes. Seapawk is the
most physically impressive human I've ever been around. Before. We
called him seapowk Carson Palmer special number one draft pick.
Speaker 7 (46:53):
Overall physically Why because I don't think of him.
Speaker 5 (46:56):
He's six', five barrel, chested has an absolute cannon for an.
Arm footwork like he's six,' one like his feet were
just dynamic when it talked about perfect, footwork dropbacks, you
know like with those old clips that used See if
akeman just. In rhythm this guy had it all and not,
ONLY that i think he ran a four or five
or six. Coming out i'm.
Speaker 6 (47:16):
Glad you, said that because did you guys think of
him as like a superior as a. Superior, quarterback yes
but obviously we didn't. Know him he was a.
Speaker 5 (47:25):
Freak out.
Speaker 7 (47:26):
THAT'S crazy i didn't.
Speaker 5 (47:27):
Know that or.
Speaker 6 (47:28):
Six, five wow, he's white so he, seems slow and he's,
a quarterback so he, seems slow.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
And he stands. Super tall, so yeah it's.
Speaker 5 (47:37):
That big and he was at a TIME where usc
was struggling and kind of brought us back, into prominence
like when his senior year when he came back and
made the decision to. Come back we went To The
orange bowl and WE beat i think It was iowa
for the First First orange. Bowl victory that's really What
Set pete carroll up in that kind. Of dynasty but
(47:58):
he took the program to the. Next LEVEL so i
gotta Go With. CARSON palmer i LIKE how i stated,
the first BUT you're i have to Go With. Matt
leonard obviously he both Those Guys heisman, trophy Winners but
matt won what two national championships back, to back AND then,
I mean i would still like to be on. The team,
but obviously if we've got to have a spot for
we got a spot. For you Thanks. Coach carol that's
(48:24):
EXACTLY what i came. Here for go get my head.
Speaker 6 (48:26):
Beat, IN yeah I guess i gotta go with the
same out, of, loyalty though you, Know what i'm Gonna
put castle in my. Back, up yeah the guy did.
Great work it's a back up later. In life, you
know we can't, go there but in the verse.
Speaker 5 (48:37):
Two it was a. Starter, too okay don't get don't.
Kid yourself.
Speaker 7 (48:40):
That's right thank you guys. For listening HERE'S what i can't.
Speaker 5 (48:44):
Wait.
Speaker 6 (48:44):
For football we've done this podcast now for months and
months without. Any football we've gone through the Absolute heart
we started What, In, december yeah like when it, was
over except for like The.
Speaker 5 (48:55):
Super bowl we we got to talk about the playoffs
with The, super bowl and then it was just off.
Season minutia we have just been grinding. Through it i'm
ready to talk about. Real Football wins comedia days. Next week,
next week the twenty second through the, Twenty fourth so
we've got four teams a day for three. Days straight it'll.
Be fun well maybe more. Than that how many teams
(49:15):
They have now.
Speaker 7 (49:16):
What do, You, mean oh you mean like they take,
the podium.
Speaker 5 (49:18):
Why they take. The putum so we'll do interviews on.
The side so what every every big NETWORK, like nbccbs Whoever,
had fox they'll all have their own space and rooms,
set up so you'll come in and they'll do individual
interviews with. COACHES players i might do something on the
side for their socials to talk to some of the
quarterbacks and do, all that and then it's just about
(49:40):
interactions with the coaches on. The field and then they'll
go up and they'll they've GOT about i think five
ten minutes on the podium and kind of talk about,
their program promote, their program give us kind of their
feelings about this. Upcoming season it might, be schedule and
then at night they'll have some dinners that you get
to go to and once again rub elbows with these
guys and kind of talk to them and get to
(50:01):
know them a little. Bit more so it's it's a
fun time and it's also a great kickoff for. The
season it's.
Speaker 6 (50:06):
Probably fun to go in like other, sports people probably other.
Speaker 5 (50:11):
Ex. Players, thanks yeah it's. A blast it's. A blast so,
it's uh it's Three days it's like truly the kickoff
to get going for, college football and then it starts
at the END of Uh into august's. Last week august
is our. First game.
Speaker 6 (50:26):
Passed, ALONG hello i got two. Bros coaching who You
Got Barry Oda Purdue. Arry oda that's, my dude. New
coach he was just here a few. Weeks ago i'm
excited his daughter To Meet. LANNY wilson i remember you, Saying,
that yeah he's.
Speaker 7 (50:38):
The best And Then. Brett bilama those are.
Speaker 5 (50:42):
My dudes he's. A study we talked about him.
Speaker 7 (50:44):
Last week then my. Warm, regards okay. That's it thank.
You guys we'll see you. Next week That's. My castle, That's.
Kickoff kevin That Is brandon ray doing all.
Speaker 6 (50:52):
The video Thanks To. Jeff pearlman be sure if you
like the idea of his two point booker any of his.
Speaker 7 (50:56):
Other books he is such a. Great writer checking out
and Go To jeff pearlman dot com or just go
to a social and you'll see at all.
Speaker 5 (51:03):
The Acts I'm.
Speaker 7 (51:03):
Bobby bohms we've had lots, To say you us.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
Lots to Say With bobby Bones And matt castle is
a production OF the nfl And. iHeart podcasts for more Podcasts,
from iHeartRadio Visit the, iHeartRadio App, apple podcasts or wherever
you get. Your podcasts
Hosts And Creators
Bobby Bones
Amy Brown
Lunchbox
Eddie Garcia
Morgan Huelsman
Raymundo
Mike D
Abby Anderson
Scuba Steve
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.