June 6, 2026 • 55 mins
Dave Rossi had everything society says should make a person happy: a booming career, a family, financial success, and the appearance of a great life. But behind the scenes, he was miserable. After a series of devastating life events including the loss of his best friend, a failing marriage, health struggles, and the collapse of his business... Dave asked the question, "what if I've been living my entire life wrong?"
Morgan & Dave dive into the ideas behind his book Alphas Die Early and explore why so many people are stuck in survival mode, how fear secretly drives our decisions, the rise of the "alpha male" mindset, vulnerability, relationships, masculinity, intuition, and what it really means to build a fulfilling life.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Personallysman.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
There's been a lot of talk about masculine and feminine
lately between the man spear dropping on Netflix and all
kinds of viral videos trying to sway people to one
side or the other. I wanted to do an episode
where we break it all down and cut through the
noise so we can.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Better understand the conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Which is why I have on this particular guest this week.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I'm excited to be joined this week by Dave Rossi.
He's the author of the book Alpha's Die Early and Dave,
I am so excited to have you here.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I'm equally excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I cannot wait to get into the conversation about alphas because,
as we were talking off of the mic, this is
a hot topic right now. But more more than that,
I want to know how this all started, Why you
wrote this book, Where it all.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Began, Gee, I think it kind of came after my
first book. I wrote a first book called The Imperative Habit,
which was a book from the fall out of my
seventeen year marriage which I chose to depart. Came with
a lot of grief, a lot of lawsuits, a lot
of loss, and then I kind of had another book
in me, and the real title was stopped being a
real man, so you could be a real man, which
(01:23):
meant a lot about what I learned getting divorced and
he didn't reset on my life. So it was a
lot about ability, accountability, awareness, authenticity, a lot of spiritual
principles to manhood and to being alive. And then I
realized how much gender drove a lot of my choices
in my marriage, and so I had another book in
(01:44):
me and I changed the name to Alphasdyroly.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Wow. Okay, there's been several steps in this process. Okay,
so take me back to the first one, because, as
you said, there was a lot of things that happened
in your life that led you to get to this moment.
What were those kind of defining moments where you're like, oh, wow, i'm.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Learning Maybe it's your learning it.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Now when you look back on that time in your
life and you're like, that is not the person that
I want.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
To be, that's a great question. First of all, the
first thing you have to do to come to this
realization is miss a lot and go through a lot
of pain. So there was a lot of I didn't
know this at the time, but I was Mayre for
seventeen years and sixteen and a half were miserable, and
you really don't realize that until the end. And then
all of a sudden, there was a series of things
(02:32):
building to tell me my life is wrong. So first
my best friend died. He was like my best friend
from third grade, kind of like a soulmate. And I
never really came to grips with that passing, and so
for five years, maybe I struggled how to give that meaning.
And I kept on saying there's got to be something
to learn from this in the back of my mind.
And I was not a spiritual person. I didn't go
(02:54):
to church. I didn't read any self help books prior
to this. So in twenty sixteen, I injured a back
injury from football, so now it was partially paralyzed. I
had to get a chordal steroid shot in my spine
to walk. I scheduled surgery in February of twenty sixteen,
and then my business was failing. I had a big business,
(03:15):
hundred and some employees with my wife at the time,
and I looked at her and realized that I really
was pretty unhappy and she had driven a wedge in
between my family and myself. I was very close to
my parents and my brothers and sisters, and there was
a giant wedge in our family. And I started looking
back and realizing that how does somebody who tried so hard,
(03:37):
I took the risks, I put the effort, I worked hard,
and I had all these talents, How did I land
so opposite from what I tried to do? And so
I thought there must have been another answer. And then
upon all these kind of collapses and my rehabilitation for
my back surgery, which I didn't have the surgery, I
tried to rehabilitating before the surgery, and that gave me
a lot of ideas on healing myself and find a
(03:59):
good way to upright. And so that's it. So that
kind of hit series of the wad these bumps and
eventually all added up to a monumental catastrophic failure in life,
and they hit the reset line.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
You weren't kidding when you said a whole lot of pain. Definitely, yeah, physical, emotional, mental,
I mean, you hit every.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Block that somebody could hit.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Family, gosh, and I have to imagine that there was
a part of this too where the societal pressure of
things that you were supposed to be doing the way
you were supposed to perform was also a piece.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
To that puzzle.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, so I think one of the pivotal moments. There
was lots of steps. Some of it was modeled behavior
for my children because I was kind of want to
overplay this word, but abused verbal abuse and gas lighting,
and I was gonna overachiever and a codependent virtual back then.
So I tried really hard, but it was really this
passage in the Death of Ivan Illage. It's a book
(04:56):
by Leo Tolsi, and Ivan wanted to be a MUSICI
his whole life he was a judge, and his wife
pushed him into being a judge, and his parents push
him into judge. And he'd lived his whole life being
a judge, always lamenting if he should have been a musician.
And then on his deathbed, he looked up at his
family on his deathbed and said, what if I live
my whole life wrong? And I hit me like the
(05:18):
tin of breg So I'm like, I'm living the whole
life how much longer? Wrong? With business? I hated the
business with her, I learned I hated her actually after
all that, and I hated my life and so I
realized every second I wasn't living the right life. I
was living the wrong life. So that's where really really turned.
(05:40):
And that's where the pain kind of converged with action
at that point.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
And you say it like that, and not a lot
of people can read a passage like that and it'll
hit him and they'll feel it. But to then say,
you know what, I'm going to do something about how.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
That made me feel the pain that got me there?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, you had gotten to this point where you were like,
there's no turning back. I have to do something differently
exactly am.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
And I think that's why I write these books, hope
for people not to have to go down that path
so far to realize that they're really unprepared for this
path and they should stop and get some help. And
I think, as a stoic entrepreneurs athlete, football player, contractor
that I am what I used to be, what I
(06:23):
saw myself as, that was a tough thing to do,
to say I need help, and so I was ready.
I don't know that that passage would have hit me
ten years earlier.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, you had just come to the right moment in time,
and it found you at that moment in time, and
that was really what I was wondering, was saying, like,
I need help, I need to change, I need to
do this. Unfortunately, we've painted an environment where men often
don't feel comfortable in saying that and having that conversation
and admitting that. It's often that they have to do
(06:57):
the best for themselves that they can, and they just
push through it and they work through that.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
So when you did finally.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Admit that, were you met with just this changing environment
or were people adversely responding to it or did you
have an open environment when you finally came to that
moment of saying I need help and.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I need to do this. Boy, listening really carefully, so
great question. There were a lot of responses. There are
mixed responses within myself because it was a new way
of looking at the world where I'd looked at the
world so differently prior to this moment. And in general,
what I've found is although society considers vulnerability a state
(07:38):
of weakness, more often than not, I was treated with
tremendous admiration for being vulnerable and I think that's the
trick and the trap with vulnerability is that it's really
an internal feeling that only you kind of have, although
others can sense it from the outside that what you
did took courage. Only you know that it's vulnerability. They
(08:01):
just see the response and so to step into that
position of accountability, Yeah, I did this, Go wow, that
was brave, And they don't know, and only we know
how big of a mountain that is to overcome. And
I think as a man, having gone through this, I
spend a lot of time trying to get people to
(08:22):
understand men, to understand even women, to understand how to
open and ask for help before you need help. And
that's the hardest thing. And I always say, you don't
know what you don't know, So try to learn that.
And how do you learn someone that you don't know
when you don't know it? And the only answer is
you have to ask. You have to say what am
I missing and ask people that have a different set
of talents and skills that you do to ask them
(08:45):
for help.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
You mentioned it there that this book, while it's addressing
alpha's and we typically associate that with men, you're saying
it also helps women because I have to think, if
I was processing this correctly, that vulnerability is hard regardless
of what gender you are, and especially in this day
and age where we are constantly being looked at and
(09:08):
judged and seen in certain lights. And if you do
this way against somebody else's beliefs, then you're the wrong person, right,
And I think vulnerability today is a lot different than
what it used to look like, and we're more open
to it, but we're also more.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Judging towards it. We have a lot of systems around it.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
When there's a cereal called balls cereal that says get
some balls and eat the cereal and be a man, Yes,
it's harder to be vulnerable with advertisers out there like that,
and I think it is harder. I think the world
knows that this is a better way to live, but
the world is much more judgmental, and that's kind of
(09:48):
why the title is officed die really and begin dive
into that. But you're absolutely right, there is still a
paradox there. We are part of the animal kingdom, and
for men and women as an animal, being defenseless is
a lower level of survivability, and we choose to survive
more often than choose to thrive. And so there's a
(10:10):
difference between writing death and learning to live same thing,
and they're just opposites of the same spectrum. And I
want to teach people to learn to live to thrive
rather than just survive. And everything that I share in
my book and here is spiritual concept. And I hate
to use the word spiritual because it's not dogma, and
it's not woo woo. It's just a part of us
(10:30):
that has power over our ego, our shadow, our anima,
as young would say, our animal side. And these are
spiritual practices just to help live the real you versus
the you that's a slave to an ego or shadow
work or damage as a child, or masculinity, which is
a form of ego in a way, masculinity is very
(10:52):
powerful driver, and so it's femininity. I have to act
this way or be this way. And unfortunately, there's lots
of signals that the apposites are winning. So as an animal,
if I see that eight hundred pound gorilla winning, or
I see that peacock winning with big, flashy feathers, I
can draw some feathers in too. Let me drop some
feathers in and then I can win just like that autpha,
but there's so much pretend now and I think that's
(11:13):
why it's become harder, is that it's a social media aspect.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And it's interesting that you say that, because I do
feel like we are in a shift happening, especially when
it comes to masculinity and in femininity. There's huge concepts
in the structure of those concepts is wildly and rapidly
changing as we learn more and as people dissect and
understand things more. So talk to me about that. As
(11:38):
we're watching that landscape change, how are we best served
to look at the environment that it is now? I
guess it's from a woman's perspective.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
That's a tough one, yeah, I think I'll answer from
the woman's perspective. A woman's perspective, and this is true
for both men and women. We have an animal aspect
to us, okay, and there are Biologically a woman will
be more attracted to someone that it's an alpha. But
it's not whether they are or they aren't. It's whether
they're perceived to be sense bravado performance, whether it's fake
(12:09):
or real. From a biological perspective, they could fool you.
So attraction always isn't good for you. And attraction come
in lots of different forms physiologically and psychologically, and so
as a woman you have to weed through performance and
it depends what your goal is. My goal after a
seventeen year abusive, unhappy, miserable marriage, although produce wonderful kids again,
(12:30):
I have no regrets. But I remarried last year and
my goal was to find someone else that wasn't performing.
I don't want a woman that performed. I don't want
a woman who and I don't not say anything wrong
with women that do want that. I'm not making any judgment.
I'm just saying for me, I wanted a sustainable, long term,
successful relationship, and that was about picking the bird and
(12:51):
not the feathers. So I don't want to see the feathers.
I don't care about the feathers. I want to know
who you are, and me showing my feathers off was
not pertinent to getting to know who that other bird was.
So I spent no time with bravado or performance or
trying to impress or name dropping or anything besides just
(13:11):
look at me. Do not look at any feathers. I
know you may look like I have x Y and Z,
but please don't look at those things. I want you
to get to know me for me. And I was
looking for that type of reciprocation, so as a woman
got to see through what's perception and what's reality. I'd
ignore the feathers and get to know the bird.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Now speak to it for me from the males protection,
because I imagine it's a little bit differently, but you're.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
What I perceive.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
In that situation. There was a lot of conversation before
I had met my fiance. When I was dating, there
was so much conversation around you need this type of guy,
and if you're very masculine, then you're surely not going
to find a masculine guy. And there was just so
much perceived ideas of how I was performing or what
(13:58):
it looked like. Right, you are going to be this masculine,
independent woman, You're never going to find a masculine man.
And I that was never my drive. My drive was
much like what you were talking about. I just wanted
to find someone who supported me in my life, regardless
of if I was independent, if I made my own money,
if I didn't make my own money. I just wanted
(14:19):
somebody who loved who I was. The rest of the
pieces didn't matter to me, but a lot of people
tried to paint that narrative as I was dating.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah, and I think there's obvious reasons why from my research,
from an animalistic side, the woman with the female of
the species is going to choose a male. It's suitable
for procreation. I just hate to break it to you.
We're not really animals anymore.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
You don't say yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
And so people talk about this the divine masculine, the
define feminine, and the man's got to provide. Yes, And
from a biological perspective, that is true, But I hope
people evolve outside of that perspective. Now you can't entirely,
because it's still we our part of the animal kingdom.
But we're the only animal with cognition. And so spirituality
is having choices over things like shadows, traumas, animalistic behaviors, ego,
(15:15):
having the power to choose. And but I hear what
you said is you wanted to choose well, and you
wanted them to choose well. And there's nothing about a
woman who can provide that makes your less interesting or attractive,
or sustainable or successful. If she's in a masculine role.
And that's so I think the failure is that everyone's
(15:35):
judging it from an animalistic scale and not from a
more cognitive, more conscious, more evolved scale.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, that's such a good perspective because once you just
paint it out that way, I'm like, yes, not tracks, Yeah,
why are we not? But then on this flip side,
we have things like Manosphere coming out, We have podcasts
that are talking a whole bunch about alphas and being
the alpha, and the alphas are important, and heck, there
was even an alpha school how you should be in alpha. Yeah,
(16:04):
but the whole purpose of your book is alpha's dying early.
So why we are in this fight right now?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Where that is.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
A really hot conversation. So give me your perspective on
all of that.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
It was if being in alpha worked, then the trend
for men wouldn't be where it is the trend for men.
If you go to four suicide attempts for men, drug
and alcohol abuses up for men, Higher education is down
for men. And I say down, I don't mean down
relative to women, because it isn't a comparison and there's
nothing wrong and there's everything that to be very very
praised about women succeeding in all areas of life, But
(16:39):
the trends for men against men from previous years is
going down in all categories. And so if the alpha
animlytic mentality worked, then men wouldn't be going down The
path to manhood is not acting more like an animal,
it's acting less like one. Now, these concepts I'm sharing
are no different, and when Nietzsche shared in the eighteen hundreds.
(17:02):
I tripped upon this when I was writing my book
The Ubermensch, which is his version of the Omega man
that I'm talking about, the Bagafa Ghita, which is a
Hindu book which talks about Krishnaan and his conversations with
Arjuna about how to live life the spiritual being. These
are not new concepts, and the manosphere and these had
(17:23):
to be in alphas are a short cut. It's a
short cut to early and fast gratification. If I went
to a bar, puffed my chest, and drove up in
a fancy car and acted a certain way, I would
probably be more successful with women that were attracted to that,
But it would say a lot about the people that
will be attracted to that as well. And so my
(17:45):
approach was not color and feathers and display feathers. It
was to go on there without any shoes and with
my sword down and my shield down and no armor,
and be as honest and authentic as I could and
match with somebody who valued who I truly was, not
someone who valued who I pretended to be. And I
(18:06):
think that's a much higher I know scientifically and from
a research perspective, it's a higher sustainable relationship. It's based
on more authentic principles. And I think the reason why
this is hard is that what I had to go through,
going through so much pain was a Carlgame would call
it undividuated consciousness. And that's a process where you see
(18:28):
a crack in your ego and you can see through
the ego. When you can see your ego, most people
can't see their ego. Cancer patients, people that have life
on near death experiences or really tough stressful times can
break that. And when you can see across and say,
wait a minute, that is a facade of me talking.
Masculinity is a facade. I can't say I'm hurt, I
can't say I need help because I need to act
(18:49):
with this facade. And then we'll throw up a facade
because it's really easy. It's really hard to say, Okay,
I need to admit that I'm really weak at this,
i need admit that I need help, and that's much
harder to do. And everyone's taken the easy way out,
and that's okay. I have no judgment for that. But
if you want sustainable way out, you want the high
level of consciousness way out, there are other ways.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
And to your point, it deepens connections. You're having very
surface level conversations connections relationships if you're not willing to break.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Down that facade.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, at the end of the day, you want to
know why things don't last, why relationships aren't working as
much as maybe they used to. I'm not sure the
statistics on that, but there's so much conversations around that,
and I just have to believe that's part of that
story too, Because a facade is fake. You're not giving
a real version of yourself. So how can anything last
if it doesn't have the real version of you?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, and there are a lot of studies that talk
about how oxytocin only lasts for nine months, and you
can only hold the facade for so long before it
kind of begins to show itself, and that's very true,
and you see levels of failures seven year itch. Seven
years is deciding factor, nine months is a designing factory.
Eighteen months as a deciding factor in relationships. And then
(20:02):
the animal would say, your brain contemplates constantly. Brain is
a supercomputer, and we all think that whatever our brain
says is real, but it's really not. Brain is computating,
it's beliefs, it's stimulus, it's understandings, it's experiences, its successes
and its failures, and so your brain computates. So I
leave this really unhappy situation. I'm getting this from this,
(20:25):
and I'm getting this from this, and last time when
I got these things from it was okay. So maem,
I keep trying. The brain is looking for the safest position.
Your brain is not trying to give you longevity. It's
trying to give you the safest position right there in
that second. And then you get safe, and then it thinks, okay,
maybe that will computated wrong. Let's rethink this, and then
it rethinks again, and it's constantly just trying to survive
(20:45):
in the moment. Doesn't have a master plan, and it's
back to survival versus thriving. The brain wants to survive.
And I was thinking, to the brain is like air
to the lungs. I'm bled to the heart. They all
have their thing to keep us alive. And the brain's thinking,
it's your heart just pumps blood. It doesn't think about it.
It just says blood and blood out, your air lungs,
air and air out, and brain thinking in theme. That's
(21:07):
all it does, and it all picks what's useful at
the moment.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
You talk about the survival mode.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
A lot of people are living in fight or fly.
We're kind of in that societal right now where there's
just a lot of people who because they haven't addressed things,
because there's a lot of facades. You just have a
lot of people genuinely surviving, they're just trying to get by.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I think that was me. You don't realize it. I
didn't realize it. I had a contant hum of anxiety,
which is I'm not surviving. So why wasn't I surviving?
Because I wasn't safe big house. I had four houses,
I had two boats, had three kids, I had two buildings.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
And from the outside, look safe, looks like you're living
great life.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Is awesome, And I'd say, maybe, why is my life
so hard because you have some debt? Okay, So how
to solve that game?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
More work?
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Hi, more employees, it's more trouble, they're more risk. So
I took on more. And there's no such thing. And
I heard that in the book actually in trying to think,
might have been doctor Hawkins, David Hawkins. There's no such
thing as stability in nature doesn't exist. Safety does not exist.
Ask Steve Jobs or Kobe Bryant, or there's that such thing.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
So then why do we chase that? Why are we
inherently going after safety?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
When this plant right here is the thing leaves look
for light and the roots for water that salt does
all day. Every bird out there is looking for worms
to eat, to pro create a little shelter to protect everybody.
And we're in our DNA. It's the same thing. We're
still in the animal kingdom, except we have cognition with
only animal on this planet. It's cognition and consciousness or
(22:48):
higher levels of consciousness, and so that's part of us.
But that doesn't be more than a tree, right, be
more than a bird. And I think we always defall
to these behaviors because her mind is thinking them, and
we think because we have these thoughts, it's me. This
is a good mate. Choose it right the second you
slow down and say, wait a minute, let's make sure
they see me for me, make sure I see them
(23:10):
for them. Why do I want to get into some
when that's not sustainable? And so what that looks like
in real time is slow down, ask yourself tough questions
and don't rationalize answers that retrofit where your minds from
a survivor perspective is taking. You doubt your brain, doubt
your thought process. Talk to others, and I always kind
(23:32):
of caution talking to others because everyone kind of has
their own agenda. So you have to filter their filter.
Everyone's got to filter. My parents are always very oh,
she's not good enough for you. I know your filters
always know what's good enough for me, But I'm trying
to look for it, judge their behaviors, not whether they're
good enough for me or not. Right, So you kind
of got to take that with a grain of salt.
But in real life practice, you just have to slow
down and ask what am I missing?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
As we talk about this evolution, I'm just so curious
because there is a conversation that I see a lot
on social med and that it's almost like men are
not evolving in the same way women are evolving.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Yes, I think there's some possibility to that. I think
women are more geared towards adaptation naturally, men are more
geared towards A lot of this is biological and physiological,
the divine masculine, so to speak of all from a
Hermetic principle, which is some very old ancient texts that
go back to Kebalian is basically the collection of these
(24:29):
hermetic principles. And I think number seven of the seven
pillars of the Hermetic principles is the gender. And so
in one end is the man or the male, and
it's not gender base and it's not a sexuality. It's
the idea of tearing things down and breaking things apart.
And the other end of the spectrum is the feminine aspect,
which is rebuild and regrowth and at birth and so
(24:51):
it's like the circle of life and death. And so
the people have adopted these spiritual principles into modern day
behaviorshift they're really not they're philosophical understandings, and so the testosterone,
and the man tends to break things and tear them apart,
and women are builders and they grow, they give birth,
and so I think women are adapting much better than
(25:13):
men are, and they're adapting to the failures of men.
Somewhere along the line, people are judging women for being feminine,
and some are junging men for not providing. And there's
nothing wrong with anybody. They're just not trained and they're
not opening their mind and their heart to new ways
of women. They're falling into these traps of survival aspects
and believing everything that they hear and read or think,
(25:35):
and they're constantly so myopic towards survival. And there's nothing
wrong with that. I'm just advocating there's another way. There's
some more sustainable, more fulfilling, deeper, like you said, and
more intrinsically valuable than just surviving and preventing death, and that.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I wanted your perspective on that for this reason, specifically
because it is such an important conversation we are in.
As much as there's a lot of conversation of operation
and the loneliness epidemic, and there's a lot of that conversation,
there is also a lot of growth that we're seeing happening,
and a lot of change that's necessary. That people are
(26:11):
just awakening a lot of pieces to themselves that they've
never seen before. Yeah, and so I think that's the
piece to the whole conversation that's kind of see is
that while this is the conversation and this is important
to notice, there's also this really cool side that's happening
where we are evolving. We're doing what we're meant to do.
You go back to the animal kingdom. We are meant
(26:33):
to evolve. That was the purpose.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
And if we're not evolving, then.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
What are we doing? And all evolution begins pain. You
have a rock on your shoe and it's painful. You're
either going to take the shoe off and take the
rock out, or you're going to build a callous to
prevent the rock from hurting you. It's just part of evolution.
Wind to rocks and water to soil, they're all responses
to some form of friction, and then we are evolving.
(26:58):
And I think it's a wonderful thing to say, See,
I can connect to how deeply pain eye was, and
I just kind of hope people wouldn't have to go
through that, and I wish I didn't have to, and
maybe I did. Could I have seen this without it?
Probably not. Had someone kept hitting in the head with
it like I do to my kids, I might have
paid attention. And I think it is hard because there's
(27:20):
always an easy way out, and the easy way out
is never sustainable, unfortunately. But there is a magical evolution
to everything. You can see it, and I think that's
where some of the manosphere kind of gets some of
its energy. Is like fighting, kicking and screaming not to evolve,
but it feels safer. That's also an animalsic. It's predictive outcomes,
(27:40):
so they're fighting for predictive outcomes.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Yeah, and I can resonate with that, right.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Change is hard.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
We know that it's not the easiest way, but it's
the things I have learned in the course of my
life so far is often things that are the easiest
are not the most.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Rewarding in the long term. Yo.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah, we get a lot more when the things are
hard and you go through the crap, unfortunately. Because I
think you could sit here today and say that just
as you mentioned at the very beginning, that you wouldn't
change a thing and there's a reason for that.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Yeah, and use this great TikTok I always see. It's
like ai animation of two philosophers are arguing. It's loud
to and needs to your somebody arguing and someone says
who's right. They both make great points. They both are
they're both right, but they're both right at different stages
in our life. Hear these phrases a lot, and this
might be great for your audience. All basic human need
is to be with somebody. Connection biological side, all your nerves,
(28:32):
your cells will do a lot better when brain is
flooded with oxytocin and serotonin, all of these wonderful hormones.
That's true. However, on the spiritual side, you don't really
need that create that yourself. So people will say, oh,
you have to have somebody, Yes, But the secondent you
become okay without it is when you'll find it. And
(28:53):
so that's the piece that people can understand on a
spiritual path is that you work on you, you work on yourself,
and you get the love that is where you are,
and that will evolve. And so hopefully you've chosen somebody
for the bird and the feathers and they'll evolve with
you work and they will grow with you. And the
(29:13):
part of that it's important is that when you let
go of the need for somebody is when you'll find
a suitable situation. But that means you're sovereign. That means
you're not desperate and you're not picking someone just not
to be alone. That desperation of not being alone. And
when you become sovereign and self master of your emotions
and over your peacocking in your ears and your masks,
(29:35):
and you've put them aside and you've locked them in
the closet and you go out there completely exposed, you're
going to have the highest opportunity to have deepest and
most intrinsic situation and anything, work, health, and love.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
It's funny you say that. There was often when I
was single, one of the things that people said to
me all the time was when you stop looking, you'll
find it. I would get so frustrated, so angry. I
was like, stop telling that. I understood it, but hearing it,
you're like, get it, but I don't know how to
make that happen. You're going through it and you're like, okay,
what does that mean? And I think you just described
(30:09):
that really beautifully of what that actually looks like, and
nobody could ever describe it to me until this moments
sitting here, because it was it was truly when I
did finally meet my fiance, I was in a place
of life where I had really I had done no, Yeah,
I had come to.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Terms with where I was in my life.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
I loved who I was, I loved the life that
I had built, and I was going to be happy regardless.
And it took me a long time to get there.
That's not an easy place.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
To get to.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I know that. Yes, for you forgetting that, it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Yeah, yeah, but that was such a huge part of that.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
So thank you for beautifully describing something that I wish
somebody would have told me for the twelve years people
were yelling that at me instead of just saying it
actually giving me the concrete advice to work through that,
and hopefully that can help some other people that are
walking through that right now. But in all of that,
you said, I love the saying that two things can
be true. Yes, and you very much just described that
(31:00):
there were two things kind of coinciding at the same
time often in our lives, and I think a lot
of people do struggle with that and understanding that it's
not black and white. Our lives are actually very much
in the gray area.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah yeah, And understanding and giving room for uncertainty is
important because there is way more that we don't know
than what we do know about the psyche and consciousness
and by human nature. And I think with you back
to your story, which I think is remarkable because you
got there and God bless you forgetting there. And I
think what's important is that when you got the life
(31:35):
that you wanted, you weren't going to sacrifice it for
a veneer. You didn't need to have someone in your life.
And I think you still need to look and that's
just the universal law of initiation. And the difference is,
and this is something that a lot of people don't understand,
desire can be fear. If you desire something so much
(31:55):
that you think you need it, I think it makes
you whole. Then is no longer longer desire and it
trips on fear. And what I mean by that is
you're afraid that if you don't get it, you won't
be sovereign, happy, or a whole. Everybody already is whole,
and that's a difficult concept to understand it, and I
kind of learned it this way. If my life is
(32:16):
gray and there clouds, and those clouds can be full
of water and really dark, these clouds can be thin
and almost see through. It doesn't matter how thick and
dark those clouds are. They're going to move and they're
gonna change. They're gonna get dark, and they're gonna get light.
And behind every one of those clouds and every one
of those storms, the sun is always still there. And
so everybody is actually whole, whether it looks like it
(32:39):
or not. Everybody has the ability and potential and existence
of being enlightened or have an ascension, the religious or
Christian capacity. It's there. It's only blocked by a lot
of things. Trick is just keep moving these things out
of the way, and so when you no longer have
fear and you're just desire becomes. This would be great,
(33:02):
but I don't need it. I'm good. Sun's shining. I'm
shining right. When you add someone, it just makes it shinier.
It's not a cloud. You don't need it. It's not
fear based desire.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yeah, well, I can tell you from a perspective of
having been on the other side of that before I
was there, and what I needed much what I bet
you would relate to, was your first marriage when you
thought you needed it. And so the situation you were
in was not a situation that was ideal.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
And not sustainable.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Yeah, and it was not.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
The relationship that you had seen for yourself. But then
when you go on to the other side of it
and like you say, no longer having that fear, you
do attract things that are much more rewarding and much
more important. And it's not driving out of this need
to have something, it's driving out of a want and
a desire that's much more complete.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah. And I don't want to overtrivilize the effort that
you went through because you, as well as other people
who get there, it doesn't mean you get rash and
it is dumb mate or possible relationship. Because you are
sovereign or more sovereign, you have probably a higher capacity
for compassion stage, but you also have high capacity for
(34:14):
patients and empathy as well. And she kind of has
to assess potential a little bit, not a big way
until they get better. But we all have a veneer,
all of us, and so if you're a little more sovereign,
and you see someone that feels great from a trauma
bond perspective and not from a resume perspective, those are
no longer variables that should be considered to have a
(34:36):
great relationship. But if you find someone who's maybe hasty
at times, or maybe raisis or tone a bad tone, now,
and again, I get it, you're going through something about
what is it? It doesn't mean you throw everything out
the window because you're sovereign and somebody at times has
moments and I still have moments as well. I'm coming
from someone who jumped out of a window with a temper,
(34:57):
so I'm not like an inherently calm person. Hey, so
now I went from jump out a window when I
was eighteen to raising my tone at times. It's a
long trajectory, But does it make me not on a
path of sovereignty because I lose my tone? One? And
so I think where you've gotten, you're able to be
a wider array of accommodation, assess things at a deeper
(35:19):
level and not so much supervisial. Yeah, very much.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
I think it's something that I wish for everyone. And
it's funny until I was sitting down here with you
and having this conversation. I don't know that I realized
I was doing anything different than anybody else.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
You know what I mean, You're probably different.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
And much of what you're talking about can describe a
lot of experiences that I've had.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
And it's often a conversation.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
People reach out to me and say, how do you
get to this point or how do I make sure
this happens? And I don't ever have an answer because
it wasn't a one way path. But sitting here talking
to you, I'm like, maybe there's something I can answer.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
To tell you, not at least head in a direction.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
And so it's interesting that this concept, this belief, everything
that you've created, especially written about in the book is
really an answer to that question.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Almost.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
I think everything in the book is to get people
to do what you did, which is listen. I'm talking
to my dad, who's eighty three. He came to Austin
for my son's graduation and we're talking about the future,
and he said, you know, a lot of my dad says,
a lot of my choices. I just kind of got
this idea to go to law school, and then someone
said go teach a class in law at junior college,
(36:26):
and I did, and those are probably two of the
most significant successful things I did in my life. And
he didn't know why. He's a product of the fifties.
And so from a spiritual perspective, it looks like this.
Everyone has a destiny. Okay, we don't know what it is,
and it's not what comes at us every day. It's
a long term. You're on the right train track put
that way, and on the right train of destiny. Things happen,
(36:49):
things that make you unhappy happen. But the divider is
whether you're making decisions for fear as an animal would
survival attachment. I need this. I'm going to play to
a fulfill a whole of my shadow. I was neglected
as a child, So this person makes me feel good.
(37:09):
Someone to ignore a lot of the red flags and
just get this need mat right. Those are decisions based
on fear, and those are decisions based on an analystic
behavior or egotistical or shado work behavior. And those are
decisions that will take you off of your destiny. And
that's back of the Leo Tolstoi quote. Is leaving your
whole life right, is making choices for the right reasons
(37:31):
that are open hard or open minded doesn't necessarily mean
they're easy. It means they feel right, really deep down inside.
And the way to look at intuition versus rationalization is
very difficult. And I've been researching this and researching Carl
Young papers and trying to give better explanations to how
you make decisions based on intuition not rationalization. And I
(37:52):
can't give you a great one besides follow your gut
and it will lead you the wrong way. And so
listen to the subtleties when it led to you the
wrong way, and give yourself a couple of years time
to judge because you learn periods. But other than that,
you did it and you listened. And that's what I
hope people can do is learn how to trust and
follow their intuition. And if they screw up, don't go
(38:12):
out the window. Just say, wait a minute, I may
have read it wrong. Let me look deeper at my
decision making process. What did I miss? What I thought
was intuition, which could have been rationalization.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Gosh, getting people to live in a more intuitive state
than out of fear and out of survival is hard.
We're in a very complex state of things, and so
it's encouraging people to live the best way that they
possibly can for their best life in a way, but
I know how hard that can be. I know how
hard that decision making process can be.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
And yeah, I had a session with my wife out
of this morning. Actually it's a fun story. Actually, I said,
I notice a pattern that you're developing. Super Benign was
talking about. But I said, it's kind of like my daughter. No,
that's not true, and she got kind of defensive. It
was being super It was like overordering food or something.
And I said, see, you think that defending yourself is
(39:07):
a more sustainable and more survivable response than saying, oh
really you think so? I guess I do that and
taking accountability, I believe is a much more powerful path
of survivability. And so she said, waity am, you're right,
that would have been more accurate. And I see how
I got a little afraid. I knew that. That was afraid.
(39:27):
I feel that, And I said the only reason I'm
bringing this up is to help you sort through these
internal feelings. And it was a really remarkable moment walking
in through Dadtown in Nashville after ordering coffee and saying, hey,
you're kind of ordered like my daughter these days. No,
I'm not. It was really funny, and so I think
you have to shift the belief to say to yourself
that there is a higher order of survival as an
(39:47):
animal when you're accountable and vulnerable than when you're not.
People think because they're afraid, it means lack of safety,
and I'm giving their story. Your brain believes that everything
that tells itself okay, And so fear is an emotion.
So if you ever feeling the emotion of fear, which
most people don't understand, and stress is fear, and again
(40:08):
desire can be fear, is that behind the emotion there's
a thought, and the thought of fear is danger. I
believe I'm in danger. Now most people are aware of
this pattern, that it's the thought first. That thought you
justly escapes them and the emotion pops up and you
can't stop emotions. But the second you feel fear, you
say I must be in danger. They feel fear. So
(40:31):
my wife's thinking, I think I'm in danger, that you're
judging me over how I order coffee when that was
the opposite. But instantly her mind begins to define the
thought of danger. And so when you sort through these
and you realize that in danger, but the hormone that
goes through your body of fear is the same hormone
that went through our ancestors' bodies running through a saber
(40:51):
to tiger. It's exactly the same hormone. Your brain cannot
tell the difference between danger. I think my husband's kind
of teasing me about how I order coffee or your
brain's it's like, no, I don't, no, I don't, And
instantly it's this hormone of running from the sabriage attiger
because it's dangerous. And I think people need to understand
that they have to process emotions and ask themselves what
am I in danger over?
Speaker 3 (41:10):
And that's so difficult.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
To do right until you had painted everything as fear.
I think fear dictates the majority of our lives.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
It does.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
I think there's a lot of moments that everybody can
look at in their life and realize that they reacted
in fear.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Yeah, and just look at this way that it's not
just fear, it's their identity that you've created for yourself.
So masculinity is identity. Femininity is an identity being a
supporter as an identity, being a provider as an identity,
being heeded as an identity, and then we react from
fear from that the near not our core self. And
that's what people don't realize is that their identity is responding.
(41:46):
I'm afraid that I've been caught. I'm afraid that my identity,
which my brain created to help me survive, is being attacked.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
I know that's feeling very well.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
So do I. Many times.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
I know that feeling. I think I have been in
that place so many times. Mostly, I think it's really
easy human nature just to want to have people perceive
the version that you put out, the version of you
that you think is the best that they should receive.
And so to break down that barrier and just give
(42:24):
them who you are without any bells and whistles. That
feels terrifying. That feels like there is no protection, there's
no security, there's no safety. We go back to that
safety feeling. And so to get people into that state
of mind, gosh, you're breaking walls down left and right
to be able to get there. It makes me want
(42:48):
to feel invisible, but it does, and I think there's
an uncomfort in that for a reason, just because the
world can be very scary, it can be very mean,
it can be very hard, and when you put that
up against the vulnerability, you don't want to write, you
don't want to put those things up next to each other,
(43:09):
because a vulnerable much like we've seen and speaking from
experience as a woman, being a confident or successful or
outgoing or blunt woman is automatically tried to get knocked down.
That facade gets knocked down very quickly. So just seeing
(43:32):
them break of the two as you're talking about it,
I'm like, I could see how that's really difficult for
people to do that and get there. So, yeah, I
love this because I think everybody's going to need what
I'm meeting right now.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
I think when you feel challenged, it's you thinking that
your identity is being challenged. If you don't have an
identity to be challenged.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Then those fems and so how do you strip back
having those identities? I know we talk about a facade,
and we talk about these layers, but how do you
really set yourself aside and no longer carry an identity
that maybe you've carried for.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Years a lifetime. Yeah, there's short answers, practice and a
lot of people use the word affirmations. I use practice.
So the question someone asked me once was could you
have done this if you didn't lose your house? I
lost my house, lots of business, say lost my I
didn't decrit bankruptcy because business debt, personal debt. It was
business debt. Sold the house to out the debt anyway,
so it doesn't sixteen My ex wife transferred all the
(44:29):
money into her name. I had sixteen dollars, just took everything.
You see gender roles. First, she managed all the bank accounts.
So I'm like, okay, I have sixteen dollars. So the
question is how could I have done Could I have
done this without giving it to that low spot? And
I don't know the answer to that question. Having lost
everything and then selling parts of the business to salvage
some debt, people would insult me the company's buying part
(44:52):
of our company kind of fell under the gas lighting
of my ex wife, and then he would insult me
life and and practice was this doesn't define me. And
I would say that over and over and over and over.
This doesn't define me. Another practice was that I tried
to stay present. And I don't mean present like my
(45:14):
attention in the present. What I mean by present is
I have the past identity that's the past, and I
have the future predicted outcome. So just try not to
think about the future or know myself as the past.
And so I would do tracks like I would sit
in the car and I wo'dst look at clouds and
say about how miserable your life is. Just look at clouds, okay,
(45:36):
and accept I have to accept that. Right now my
life is miss I mean sued by unions. I'm in
a lawsuit, getting divorced, I have to share my kids.
My ex wife, this and that or whatever are calling
me names, and employees are getting fired, and I just say,
this doesn't define me, This doesn't, this doesn't. It says
I am the same person. And in Victor Frankel's book,
(45:58):
man Search for Meeting helped a lot because he was
in Autchwitz and he was beaten and starving and diseased
and frozen, and his family killed and ate people to
a bed. And his greatest day was if the food
line someone dipped the ladle deeper in the soup because
you might get a pee because the peas hung out
at the bottom of the soup. Okay, my problems were
not looking at deep. The ladle went into a bowl
of soup, so I'd say, okay, so maybe I'd go bankrupt,
(46:19):
maybe I got to borrow some money from my parents
or my brother, or maybe I'm going to go on
vacation for a long time. Okay, great, but it doesn't
define me. It doesn't define me. It doesn't define me.
It doesn't define me. And I would say that a
thousand times a day, as many times as I needed
to say that, and then I would carry it out.
If I believe this, and I had people over for dinner,
I'm not going to ask them if they had a
nice time because I didn't have them here to have
(46:41):
a nice time. I had them here because they wanted
them here, and I did my best job, not for
the outcome, but because I wanted to it. So it
didn't matter because asking them only further define myself in
terms of my ego. So don't ask.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Gosh, I'm going to need that affirmation in my life
as I hear that. But it is interesting the perspective
to think of if you're able to get to the
thought process, the system that where you are right now
without hitting a breaking point. I do wonder if there's
a way to go about it, because to your point,
(47:17):
when everything is stripped away from you and you're just
sitting there left with bare minimum, the only way to
build yourself back up is to just start believing in
who you are and believing to your core that you
can do whatever you need to do to get out
of this. And there is I think we talk about
(47:38):
the animal kingdom in this conversation. I feel like there's
an instinct that's happening in there where you're like, I'm
going to figure out how to do this, but I'm
going to come back even better and I'm going to
It's almost like a lion, right the lion gets kicked out.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
If we talk about those groups of.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Lions and there's only one male that wins out, right, now,
does another male come in and win it out? And
I think that's a fight in about a Well maybe
there's something there. I don't know, but it feels like
you had this instinct in you to not just survive,
but to thrive because of it.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Well, I think because I believed that the path I
took in the past didn't work. The path I took
was conventional. College could a degree, get married, start a business,
make risks, work hard, kids, work hard, be smart at tension,
take risks. We just book on investment and its book
on management.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
You did everything right they were supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
And then I failed miserably and I closed to bankruptcy
and having no money at forty six. And now my business,
I wen't got a job for a couple of years,
and in part of business, my business is doing eight
figure is consistently every year. Right now, I have a wonderful, easy,
fantastic life and I'm so grateful for it. And I
don't mean that to say anything other than you can
do it, and that there are ways to do it.
(48:53):
And I take my spiritual practice with me in every
aspect of my life. And that's hard, especially at work
as a contractor, I have to look at seductive projects
and think, wow, time million, it's nice. I'm much of
like the owners. I'm I'm much here of like the
team cohesive. My inner voice is saying, you know that
(49:14):
bad teams, bad projects a walk, and I do.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
And you're evaluating now from a relationship and a belief
system now versus just trying to make money.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, And that comes from having the confidence that I've
transitioned from survival to thrive. And I know that if
my business loses money, which has times that might say lose,
it's shrunk. I let go of people, and as bad
as that is, I can't live my life and not
hurt people. Just the way life is, you have to
go okay here, Hurting people just happens. My kids are like, oh,
I'm not sure where they go to Moms or your
house for Christmas. Look, you're gonna hurt somebody. Just choose something,
(49:49):
live with it. Stop deciding based on other people's disappointment.
You have to live your life. You can't live your
life in their life at the same time. So just
do it. And I think for me to let people
go in the business shrinks, that's just part of being
sovereign and making tough decisions. And so I think I
now know this is a higher level of survival. My
life now is an example. I'm a guide. I'm not
(50:11):
here to be better than anybody. I'm here to say
these things are possible. This is what happened to me.
Take the pieces that are useful for you and use them.
And I guess the main messages and mainly for men
and for men who are pretending to be something they're not.
I'm a guide here to say, yeah, you can do
without having to pretend to be something.
Speaker 3 (50:28):
Ay, yeah, I think they need it.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
I should do.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Anybody out there needs to hear that message, but particularly men.
And I often have a lot of women on this
podcast talking about women topics, but I love giving men perspectives.
It's actually hard to find guests to speak to men.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
Men are too afraid to get honest truly, and so.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
I always anybody who's ever willing, and I'm like, let's
do this because I want to speak to that side,
to that population, because I think more men need to
hear these things.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Yeah, I think women can help. I think as a
man first of all, for women and for men. If
someone needs to pretend to be stronger, they're not. If
you're really strong, why you pret If you're really a catch,
why are you trying to make yourself look like a catch?
If you're great, you don't need to tell someone you're great. Okay.
It doesn't mean that at times you'll get overlook because
you will, but you're going to be overlooked from the
(51:18):
people that aren't. And so I think women and I,
by no means ever mean to blame anyone, and certainly
last woman. And I have to say that for men
are competitive with other men, and they observe when they're
successful when they're not. And hey, John over there, he
was kind of a dick. Got that girl. I need
to be I need to be more rude. More girls
like it when you have a lot of bravado and
(51:38):
you show your providers. Women got to advocate for yourself
and not put your energy into something facade. And men
who do not want those women don't look at it
like a loss. Don't look at it like you're losing out.
And John's got a better vibe or a better rap
than you do, because it's just a match based on
something on a different consciousness level. And I'm not saying bad,
(51:59):
I'm not saying wrong. I'm saying different. That's it. And
I think when David Hawkins again, I love Hawkins. He
has a scale of consciousness, and consciousness is an energy field,
and some people vibrate at a lower energy field, and
lower means more animal, more in survival, they steal, they're violent.
A lot of people in lower torn places are just
trying to survive and it's a more animalistic state of
(52:22):
Homo sapien. And then as you grow up the scale
of consciousness, your vibrational energy, your consciousness energy. We hear
this word a lot of energy. Energy can be emotions
which are transient, and also your consciousness level. As your
consciousness expands and you're more open hearted and open minded,
naturally will be more interested in different things. And so
(52:43):
that's where I want people. I hope people will go
to make the world a better place and mostly better
for themselves.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
And this is such a great conversation, not just from
female male perspective, but it's just a great conversation.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Human to human.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
We're trying to make the world a better place at
the end of the day, and to do that is
to have conversations like this. And I love everything you shared,
and I think sitting here, I could go down this rabbit.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
Hole for a really long time. I'm happy to come back.
I love Nashville. Keep it in mind, I have to come.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Back, and it's so good. This is so good for
people to hear. But I do want to make sure
if there's anything else, because that was typically have everybody
in one something inspirational or motivational but I feel like
you've shared so many beautiful moments of that. But is
there anything we haven't touched on that's heavy on your heart,
something that you really want to make sure we share,
or a point to get across to everybody today you.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Think there's a couple of main themes. There's nothing wrong
with anybody. Nobody's broken. Please don't think you're broken. And
one way to move towards a direction that's more conducive
to thriving than surviving is just asking yourself if this
works for me. At a very micro level, if the
(53:50):
food you eat in the morning doesn't work for you,
get new food. If you walk to work and it's
not fulfilling. I'm not advocating just saying quitting your job.
I'm saying use where you are as a stepping stone
to new life. But you have to at least recognize
and have some awareness. Awareness is a very key thing.
You have to be your own coach, and awareness is
a self coach. Coach tells you when to tuck in
(54:11):
your chin and you dive, and where to throw your
hand when you're pitching. You don't have that coach, and
so now you have to have your own coach and
say I'm aware that this is not a fulfilling career
for me, I'm going to transition into someone that I
think is going to be fulfilling. Well, I ride this out.
I'm not going to disrupt my life and I'm going
to move into a place it's better. Look for places
that you think aren't exactly perfect for you and find
(54:34):
him that the best life you can. Be selfish, that
the best life you can. Don't let anyone stop you
from having a perfect life.
Speaker 3 (54:42):
That's so good. You still ended up ending on something
inspirational or motovational, which just perfect.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
But much of what you said resonates with have your
own agency of your own life. And I think a
lot of people are desiring that, they're looking for it,
they're trying to figure out how, and this is a
great starting place. So make sure you check out Dave's
bo Bok Alpha's Die Early, and not just for men,
but for women as well, in anybody who's looking to
just challenge their thought process, which I think is a
(55:08):
great starting place for anyone to head on the path
to the perfect life that they want to live.
Speaker 3 (55:14):
So Dave, thanks for being.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
Here, and Margan, thank you for having me, I would
come back. You need to for the barbecue, but also
also for your show. Fair. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
It was fun to do a conversation like this one
challenging ideas we've been taught in the discourse around human evolution.
It's super fascinating to me. Dave's book is linked in
the show notes, as is his social media. If you
want to connect with him, you can watch these full
interviews on YouTube at Webgrolworking, or you can follow along
on the podcast Instagram at take this personally. That's it
for now. I'm so happy that you're here. Talk to
you next week.
Personallysman.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
There's been a lot of talk about masculine and feminine
lately between the man spear dropping on Netflix and all
kinds of viral videos trying to sway people to one
side or the other. I wanted to do an episode
where we break it all down and cut through the
noise so we can.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Better understand the conversation.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Which is why I have on this particular guest this week.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I'm excited to be joined this week by Dave Rossi.
He's the author of the book Alpha's Die Early and Dave,
I am so excited to have you here.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I'm equally excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I cannot wait to get into the conversation about alphas because,
as we were talking off of the mic, this is
a hot topic right now. But more more than that,
I want to know how this all started, Why you
wrote this book, Where it all.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Began, Gee, I think it kind of came after my
first book. I wrote a first book called The Imperative Habit,
which was a book from the fall out of my
seventeen year marriage which I chose to depart. Came with
a lot of grief, a lot of lawsuits, a lot
of loss, and then I kind of had another book
in me, and the real title was stopped being a
real man, so you could be a real man, which
(01:23):
meant a lot about what I learned getting divorced and
he didn't reset on my life. So it was a
lot about ability, accountability, awareness, authenticity, a lot of spiritual
principles to manhood and to being alive. And then I
realized how much gender drove a lot of my choices
in my marriage, and so I had another book in
(01:44):
me and I changed the name to Alphasdyroly.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Wow. Okay, there's been several steps in this process. Okay,
so take me back to the first one, because, as
you said, there was a lot of things that happened
in your life that led you to get to this moment.
What were those kind of defining moments where you're like, oh, wow, i'm.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Learning Maybe it's your learning it.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Now when you look back on that time in your
life and you're like, that is not the person that
I want.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
To be, that's a great question. First of all, the
first thing you have to do to come to this
realization is miss a lot and go through a lot
of pain. So there was a lot of I didn't
know this at the time, but I was Mayre for
seventeen years and sixteen and a half were miserable, and
you really don't realize that until the end. And then
all of a sudden, there was a series of things
(02:32):
building to tell me my life is wrong. So first
my best friend died. He was like my best friend
from third grade, kind of like a soulmate. And I
never really came to grips with that passing, and so
for five years, maybe I struggled how to give that meaning.
And I kept on saying there's got to be something
to learn from this in the back of my mind.
And I was not a spiritual person. I didn't go
(02:54):
to church. I didn't read any self help books prior
to this. So in twenty sixteen, I injured a back
injury from football, so now it was partially paralyzed. I
had to get a chordal steroid shot in my spine
to walk. I scheduled surgery in February of twenty sixteen,
and then my business was failing. I had a big business,
(03:15):
hundred and some employees with my wife at the time,
and I looked at her and realized that I really
was pretty unhappy and she had driven a wedge in
between my family and myself. I was very close to
my parents and my brothers and sisters, and there was
a giant wedge in our family. And I started looking
back and realizing that how does somebody who tried so hard,
(03:37):
I took the risks, I put the effort, I worked hard,
and I had all these talents, How did I land
so opposite from what I tried to do? And so
I thought there must have been another answer. And then
upon all these kind of collapses and my rehabilitation for
my back surgery, which I didn't have the surgery, I
tried to rehabilitating before the surgery, and that gave me
a lot of ideas on healing myself and find a
(03:59):
good way to upright. And so that's it. So that
kind of hit series of the wad these bumps and
eventually all added up to a monumental catastrophic failure in life,
and they hit the reset line.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
You weren't kidding when you said a whole lot of pain. Definitely, yeah, physical, emotional, mental,
I mean, you hit every.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Block that somebody could hit.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Family, gosh, and I have to imagine that there was
a part of this too where the societal pressure of
things that you were supposed to be doing the way
you were supposed to perform was also a piece.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
To that puzzle.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, so I think one of the pivotal moments. There
was lots of steps. Some of it was modeled behavior
for my children because I was kind of want to
overplay this word, but abused verbal abuse and gas lighting,
and I was gonna overachiever and a codependent virtual back then.
So I tried really hard, but it was really this
passage in the Death of Ivan Illage. It's a book
(04:56):
by Leo Tolsi, and Ivan wanted to be a MUSICI
his whole life he was a judge, and his wife
pushed him into being a judge, and his parents push
him into judge. And he'd lived his whole life being
a judge, always lamenting if he should have been a musician.
And then on his deathbed, he looked up at his
family on his deathbed and said, what if I live
my whole life wrong? And I hit me like the
(05:18):
tin of breg So I'm like, I'm living the whole
life how much longer? Wrong? With business? I hated the
business with her, I learned I hated her actually after
all that, and I hated my life and so I
realized every second I wasn't living the right life. I
was living the wrong life. So that's where really really turned.
(05:40):
And that's where the pain kind of converged with action
at that point.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
And you say it like that, and not a lot
of people can read a passage like that and it'll
hit him and they'll feel it. But to then say,
you know what, I'm going to do something about how.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
That made me feel the pain that got me there?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, you had gotten to this point where you were like,
there's no turning back. I have to do something differently
exactly am.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
And I think that's why I write these books, hope
for people not to have to go down that path
so far to realize that they're really unprepared for this
path and they should stop and get some help. And
I think, as a stoic entrepreneurs athlete, football player, contractor
that I am what I used to be, what I
(06:23):
saw myself as, that was a tough thing to do,
to say I need help, and so I was ready.
I don't know that that passage would have hit me
ten years earlier.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, you had just come to the right moment in time,
and it found you at that moment in time, and
that was really what I was wondering, was saying, like,
I need help, I need to change, I need to
do this. Unfortunately, we've painted an environment where men often
don't feel comfortable in saying that and having that conversation
and admitting that. It's often that they have to do
(06:57):
the best for themselves that they can, and they just
push through it and they work through that.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
So when you did finally.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Admit that, were you met with just this changing environment
or were people adversely responding to it or did you
have an open environment when you finally came to that
moment of saying I need help and.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I need to do this. Boy, listening really carefully, so
great question. There were a lot of responses. There are
mixed responses within myself because it was a new way
of looking at the world where I'd looked at the
world so differently prior to this moment. And in general,
what I've found is although society considers vulnerability a state
(07:38):
of weakness, more often than not, I was treated with
tremendous admiration for being vulnerable and I think that's the
trick and the trap with vulnerability is that it's really
an internal feeling that only you kind of have, although
others can sense it from the outside that what you
did took courage. Only you know that it's vulnerability. They
(08:01):
just see the response and so to step into that
position of accountability, Yeah, I did this, Go wow, that
was brave, And they don't know, and only we know
how big of a mountain that is to overcome. And
I think as a man, having gone through this, I
spend a lot of time trying to get people to
(08:22):
understand men, to understand even women, to understand how to
open and ask for help before you need help. And
that's the hardest thing. And I always say, you don't
know what you don't know, So try to learn that.
And how do you learn someone that you don't know
when you don't know it? And the only answer is
you have to ask. You have to say what am
I missing and ask people that have a different set
of talents and skills that you do to ask them
(08:45):
for help.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
You mentioned it there that this book, while it's addressing
alpha's and we typically associate that with men, you're saying
it also helps women because I have to think, if
I was processing this correctly, that vulnerability is hard regardless
of what gender you are, and especially in this day
and age where we are constantly being looked at and
(09:08):
judged and seen in certain lights. And if you do
this way against somebody else's beliefs, then you're the wrong person, right,
And I think vulnerability today is a lot different than
what it used to look like, and we're more open
to it, but we're also more.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Judging towards it. We have a lot of systems around it.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
When there's a cereal called balls cereal that says get
some balls and eat the cereal and be a man, Yes,
it's harder to be vulnerable with advertisers out there like that,
and I think it is harder. I think the world
knows that this is a better way to live, but
the world is much more judgmental, and that's kind of
(09:48):
why the title is officed die really and begin dive
into that. But you're absolutely right, there is still a
paradox there. We are part of the animal kingdom, and
for men and women as an animal, being defenseless is
a lower level of survivability, and we choose to survive
more often than choose to thrive. And so there's a
(10:10):
difference between writing death and learning to live same thing,
and they're just opposites of the same spectrum. And I
want to teach people to learn to live to thrive
rather than just survive. And everything that I share in
my book and here is spiritual concept. And I hate
to use the word spiritual because it's not dogma, and
it's not woo woo. It's just a part of us
(10:30):
that has power over our ego, our shadow, our anima,
as young would say, our animal side. And these are
spiritual practices just to help live the real you versus
the you that's a slave to an ego or shadow
work or damage as a child, or masculinity, which is
a form of ego in a way, masculinity is very
(10:52):
powerful driver, and so it's femininity. I have to act
this way or be this way. And unfortunately, there's lots
of signals that the apposites are winning. So as an animal,
if I see that eight hundred pound gorilla winning, or
I see that peacock winning with big, flashy feathers, I
can draw some feathers in too. Let me drop some
feathers in and then I can win just like that autpha,
but there's so much pretend now and I think that's
(11:13):
why it's become harder, is that it's a social media aspect.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And it's interesting that you say that, because I do
feel like we are in a shift happening, especially when
it comes to masculinity and in femininity. There's huge concepts
in the structure of those concepts is wildly and rapidly
changing as we learn more and as people dissect and
understand things more. So talk to me about that. As
(11:38):
we're watching that landscape change, how are we best served
to look at the environment that it is now? I
guess it's from a woman's perspective.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
That's a tough one, yeah, I think I'll answer from
the woman's perspective. A woman's perspective, and this is true
for both men and women. We have an animal aspect
to us, okay, and there are Biologically a woman will
be more attracted to someone that it's an alpha. But
it's not whether they are or they aren't. It's whether
they're perceived to be sense bravado performance, whether it's fake
(12:09):
or real. From a biological perspective, they could fool you.
So attraction always isn't good for you. And attraction come
in lots of different forms physiologically and psychologically, and so
as a woman you have to weed through performance and
it depends what your goal is. My goal after a
seventeen year abusive, unhappy, miserable marriage, although produce wonderful kids again,
(12:30):
I have no regrets. But I remarried last year and
my goal was to find someone else that wasn't performing.
I don't want a woman that performed. I don't want
a woman who and I don't not say anything wrong
with women that do want that. I'm not making any judgment.
I'm just saying for me, I wanted a sustainable, long term,
successful relationship, and that was about picking the bird and
(12:51):
not the feathers. So I don't want to see the feathers.
I don't care about the feathers. I want to know
who you are, and me showing my feathers off was
not pertinent to getting to know who that other bird was.
So I spent no time with bravado or performance or
trying to impress or name dropping or anything besides just
(13:11):
look at me. Do not look at any feathers. I
know you may look like I have x Y and Z,
but please don't look at those things. I want you
to get to know me for me. And I was
looking for that type of reciprocation, so as a woman
got to see through what's perception and what's reality. I'd
ignore the feathers and get to know the bird.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Now speak to it for me from the males protection,
because I imagine it's a little bit differently, but you're.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
What I perceive.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
In that situation. There was a lot of conversation before
I had met my fiance. When I was dating, there
was so much conversation around you need this type of guy,
and if you're very masculine, then you're surely not going
to find a masculine guy. And there was just so
much perceived ideas of how I was performing or what
(13:58):
it looked like. Right, you are going to be this masculine,
independent woman, You're never going to find a masculine man.
And I that was never my drive. My drive was
much like what you were talking about. I just wanted
to find someone who supported me in my life, regardless
of if I was independent, if I made my own money,
if I didn't make my own money. I just wanted
(14:19):
somebody who loved who I was. The rest of the
pieces didn't matter to me, but a lot of people
tried to paint that narrative as I was dating.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah, and I think there's obvious reasons why from my research,
from an animalistic side, the woman with the female of
the species is going to choose a male. It's suitable
for procreation. I just hate to break it to you.
We're not really animals anymore.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
You don't say yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
And so people talk about this the divine masculine, the
define feminine, and the man's got to provide. Yes, And
from a biological perspective, that is true, But I hope
people evolve outside of that perspective. Now you can't entirely,
because it's still we our part of the animal kingdom.
But we're the only animal with cognition. And so spirituality
is having choices over things like shadows, traumas, animalistic behaviors, ego,
(15:15):
having the power to choose. And but I hear what
you said is you wanted to choose well, and you
wanted them to choose well. And there's nothing about a
woman who can provide that makes your less interesting or attractive,
or sustainable or successful. If she's in a masculine role.
And that's so I think the failure is that everyone's
(15:35):
judging it from an animalistic scale and not from a
more cognitive, more conscious, more evolved scale.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, that's such a good perspective because once you just
paint it out that way, I'm like, yes, not tracks, Yeah,
why are we not? But then on this flip side,
we have things like Manosphere coming out, We have podcasts
that are talking a whole bunch about alphas and being
the alpha, and the alphas are important, and heck, there
was even an alpha school how you should be in alpha. Yeah,
(16:04):
but the whole purpose of your book is alpha's dying early.
So why we are in this fight right now?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Where that is.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
A really hot conversation. So give me your perspective on
all of that.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
It was if being in alpha worked, then the trend
for men wouldn't be where it is the trend for men.
If you go to four suicide attempts for men, drug
and alcohol abuses up for men, Higher education is down
for men. And I say down, I don't mean down
relative to women, because it isn't a comparison and there's
nothing wrong and there's everything that to be very very
praised about women succeeding in all areas of life, But
(16:39):
the trends for men against men from previous years is
going down in all categories. And so if the alpha
animlytic mentality worked, then men wouldn't be going down The
path to manhood is not acting more like an animal,
it's acting less like one. Now, these concepts I'm sharing
are no different, and when Nietzsche shared in the eighteen hundreds.
(17:02):
I tripped upon this when I was writing my book
The Ubermensch, which is his version of the Omega man
that I'm talking about, the Bagafa Ghita, which is a
Hindu book which talks about Krishnaan and his conversations with
Arjuna about how to live life the spiritual being. These
are not new concepts, and the manosphere and these had
(17:23):
to be in alphas are a short cut. It's a
short cut to early and fast gratification. If I went
to a bar, puffed my chest, and drove up in
a fancy car and acted a certain way, I would
probably be more successful with women that were attracted to that,
But it would say a lot about the people that
will be attracted to that as well. And so my
(17:45):
approach was not color and feathers and display feathers. It
was to go on there without any shoes and with
my sword down and my shield down and no armor,
and be as honest and authentic as I could and
match with somebody who valued who I truly was, not
someone who valued who I pretended to be. And I
(18:06):
think that's a much higher I know scientifically and from
a research perspective, it's a higher sustainable relationship. It's based
on more authentic principles. And I think the reason why
this is hard is that what I had to go through,
going through so much pain was a Carlgame would call
it undividuated consciousness. And that's a process where you see
(18:28):
a crack in your ego and you can see through
the ego. When you can see your ego, most people
can't see their ego. Cancer patients, people that have life
on near death experiences or really tough stressful times can
break that. And when you can see across and say,
wait a minute, that is a facade of me talking.
Masculinity is a facade. I can't say I'm hurt, I
can't say I need help because I need to act
(18:49):
with this facade. And then we'll throw up a facade
because it's really easy. It's really hard to say, Okay,
I need to admit that I'm really weak at this,
i need admit that I need help, and that's much
harder to do. And everyone's taken the easy way out,
and that's okay. I have no judgment for that. But
if you want sustainable way out, you want the high
level of consciousness way out, there are other ways.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
And to your point, it deepens connections. You're having very
surface level conversations connections relationships if you're not willing to break.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Down that facade.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, at the end of the day, you want to
know why things don't last, why relationships aren't working as
much as maybe they used to. I'm not sure the
statistics on that, but there's so much conversations around that,
and I just have to believe that's part of that
story too, Because a facade is fake. You're not giving
a real version of yourself. So how can anything last
if it doesn't have the real version of you?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, and there are a lot of studies that talk
about how oxytocin only lasts for nine months, and you
can only hold the facade for so long before it
kind of begins to show itself, and that's very true,
and you see levels of failures seven year itch. Seven
years is deciding factor, nine months is a designing factory.
Eighteen months as a deciding factor in relationships. And then
(20:02):
the animal would say, your brain contemplates constantly. Brain is
a supercomputer, and we all think that whatever our brain
says is real, but it's really not. Brain is computating,
it's beliefs, it's stimulus, it's understandings, it's experiences, its successes
and its failures, and so your brain computates. So I
leave this really unhappy situation. I'm getting this from this,
(20:25):
and I'm getting this from this, and last time when
I got these things from it was okay. So maem,
I keep trying. The brain is looking for the safest position.
Your brain is not trying to give you longevity. It's
trying to give you the safest position right there in
that second. And then you get safe, and then it thinks, okay,
maybe that will computated wrong. Let's rethink this, and then
it rethinks again, and it's constantly just trying to survive
(20:45):
in the moment. Doesn't have a master plan, and it's
back to survival versus thriving. The brain wants to survive.
And I was thinking, to the brain is like air
to the lungs. I'm bled to the heart. They all
have their thing to keep us alive. And the brain's thinking,
it's your heart just pumps blood. It doesn't think about it.
It just says blood and blood out, your air lungs,
air and air out, and brain thinking in theme. That's
(21:07):
all it does, and it all picks what's useful at
the moment.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
You talk about the survival mode.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
A lot of people are living in fight or fly.
We're kind of in that societal right now where there's
just a lot of people who because they haven't addressed things,
because there's a lot of facades. You just have a
lot of people genuinely surviving, they're just trying to get by.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I think that was me. You don't realize it. I
didn't realize it. I had a contant hum of anxiety,
which is I'm not surviving. So why wasn't I surviving?
Because I wasn't safe big house. I had four houses,
I had two boats, had three kids, I had two buildings.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
And from the outside, look safe, looks like you're living
great life.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Is awesome, And I'd say, maybe, why is my life
so hard because you have some debt? Okay, So how
to solve that game?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
More work?
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Hi, more employees, it's more trouble, they're more risk. So
I took on more. And there's no such thing. And
I heard that in the book actually in trying to think,
might have been doctor Hawkins, David Hawkins. There's no such
thing as stability in nature doesn't exist. Safety does not exist.
Ask Steve Jobs or Kobe Bryant, or there's that such thing.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
So then why do we chase that? Why are we
inherently going after safety?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
When this plant right here is the thing leaves look
for light and the roots for water that salt does
all day. Every bird out there is looking for worms
to eat, to pro create a little shelter to protect everybody.
And we're in our DNA. It's the same thing. We're
still in the animal kingdom, except we have cognition with
only animal on this planet. It's cognition and consciousness or
(22:48):
higher levels of consciousness, and so that's part of us.
But that doesn't be more than a tree, right, be
more than a bird. And I think we always defall
to these behaviors because her mind is thinking them, and
we think because we have these thoughts, it's me. This
is a good mate. Choose it right the second you
slow down and say, wait a minute, let's make sure
they see me for me, make sure I see them
(23:10):
for them. Why do I want to get into some
when that's not sustainable? And so what that looks like
in real time is slow down, ask yourself tough questions
and don't rationalize answers that retrofit where your minds from
a survivor perspective is taking. You doubt your brain, doubt
your thought process. Talk to others, and I always kind
(23:32):
of caution talking to others because everyone kind of has
their own agenda. So you have to filter their filter.
Everyone's got to filter. My parents are always very oh,
she's not good enough for you. I know your filters
always know what's good enough for me, But I'm trying
to look for it, judge their behaviors, not whether they're
good enough for me or not. Right, So you kind
of got to take that with a grain of salt.
But in real life practice, you just have to slow
down and ask what am I missing?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
As we talk about this evolution, I'm just so curious
because there is a conversation that I see a lot
on social med and that it's almost like men are
not evolving in the same way women are evolving.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Yes, I think there's some possibility to that. I think
women are more geared towards adaptation naturally, men are more
geared towards A lot of this is biological and physiological,
the divine masculine, so to speak of all from a
Hermetic principle, which is some very old ancient texts that
go back to Kebalian is basically the collection of these
(24:29):
hermetic principles. And I think number seven of the seven
pillars of the Hermetic principles is the gender. And so
in one end is the man or the male, and
it's not gender base and it's not a sexuality. It's
the idea of tearing things down and breaking things apart.
And the other end of the spectrum is the feminine aspect,
which is rebuild and regrowth and at birth and so
(24:51):
it's like the circle of life and death. And so
the people have adopted these spiritual principles into modern day
behaviorshift they're really not they're philosophical understandings, and so the testosterone,
and the man tends to break things and tear them apart,
and women are builders and they grow, they give birth,
and so I think women are adapting much better than
(25:13):
men are, and they're adapting to the failures of men.
Somewhere along the line, people are judging women for being feminine,
and some are junging men for not providing. And there's
nothing wrong with anybody. They're just not trained and they're
not opening their mind and their heart to new ways
of women. They're falling into these traps of survival aspects
and believing everything that they hear and read or think,
(25:35):
and they're constantly so myopic towards survival. And there's nothing
wrong with that. I'm just advocating there's another way. There's
some more sustainable, more fulfilling, deeper, like you said, and
more intrinsically valuable than just surviving and preventing death, and that.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I wanted your perspective on that for this reason, specifically
because it is such an important conversation we are in.
As much as there's a lot of conversation of operation
and the loneliness epidemic, and there's a lot of that conversation,
there is also a lot of growth that we're seeing happening,
and a lot of change that's necessary. That people are
(26:11):
just awakening a lot of pieces to themselves that they've
never seen before. Yeah, and so I think that's the
piece to the whole conversation that's kind of see is
that while this is the conversation and this is important
to notice, there's also this really cool side that's happening
where we are evolving. We're doing what we're meant to do.
You go back to the animal kingdom. We are meant
(26:33):
to evolve. That was the purpose.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
And if we're not evolving, then.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
What are we doing? And all evolution begins pain. You
have a rock on your shoe and it's painful. You're
either going to take the shoe off and take the
rock out, or you're going to build a callous to
prevent the rock from hurting you. It's just part of evolution.
Wind to rocks and water to soil, they're all responses
to some form of friction, and then we are evolving.
(26:58):
And I think it's a wonderful thing to say, See,
I can connect to how deeply pain eye was, and
I just kind of hope people wouldn't have to go
through that, and I wish I didn't have to, and
maybe I did. Could I have seen this without it?
Probably not. Had someone kept hitting in the head with
it like I do to my kids, I might have
paid attention. And I think it is hard because there's
(27:20):
always an easy way out, and the easy way out
is never sustainable, unfortunately. But there is a magical evolution
to everything. You can see it, and I think that's
where some of the manosphere kind of gets some of
its energy. Is like fighting, kicking and screaming not to evolve,
but it feels safer. That's also an animalsic. It's predictive outcomes,
(27:40):
so they're fighting for predictive outcomes.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Yeah, and I can resonate with that, right.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Change is hard.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
We know that it's not the easiest way, but it's
the things I have learned in the course of my
life so far is often things that are the easiest
are not the most.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Rewarding in the long term. Yo.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah, we get a lot more when the things are
hard and you go through the crap, unfortunately. Because I
think you could sit here today and say that just
as you mentioned at the very beginning, that you wouldn't
change a thing and there's a reason for that.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Yeah, and use this great TikTok I always see. It's
like ai animation of two philosophers are arguing. It's loud
to and needs to your somebody arguing and someone says
who's right. They both make great points. They both are
they're both right, but they're both right at different stages
in our life. Hear these phrases a lot, and this
might be great for your audience. All basic human need
is to be with somebody. Connection biological side, all your nerves,
(28:32):
your cells will do a lot better when brain is
flooded with oxytocin and serotonin, all of these wonderful hormones.
That's true. However, on the spiritual side, you don't really
need that create that yourself. So people will say, oh,
you have to have somebody, Yes, But the secondent you
become okay without it is when you'll find it. And
(28:53):
so that's the piece that people can understand on a
spiritual path is that you work on you, you work on yourself,
and you get the love that is where you are,
and that will evolve. And so hopefully you've chosen somebody
for the bird and the feathers and they'll evolve with
you work and they will grow with you. And the
(29:13):
part of that it's important is that when you let
go of the need for somebody is when you'll find
a suitable situation. But that means you're sovereign. That means
you're not desperate and you're not picking someone just not
to be alone. That desperation of not being alone. And
when you become sovereign and self master of your emotions
and over your peacocking in your ears and your masks,
(29:35):
and you've put them aside and you've locked them in
the closet and you go out there completely exposed, you're
going to have the highest opportunity to have deepest and
most intrinsic situation and anything, work, health, and love.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
It's funny you say that. There was often when I
was single, one of the things that people said to
me all the time was when you stop looking, you'll
find it. I would get so frustrated, so angry. I
was like, stop telling that. I understood it, but hearing it,
you're like, get it, but I don't know how to
make that happen. You're going through it and you're like, okay,
what does that mean? And I think you just described
(30:09):
that really beautifully of what that actually looks like, and
nobody could ever describe it to me until this moments
sitting here, because it was it was truly when I
did finally meet my fiance, I was in a place
of life where I had really I had done no, Yeah,
I had come to.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Terms with where I was in my life.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
I loved who I was, I loved the life that
I had built, and I was going to be happy regardless.
And it took me a long time to get there.
That's not an easy place.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
To get to.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I know that. Yes, for you forgetting that, it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Yeah, yeah, but that was such a huge part of that.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
So thank you for beautifully describing something that I wish
somebody would have told me for the twelve years people
were yelling that at me instead of just saying it
actually giving me the concrete advice to work through that,
and hopefully that can help some other people that are
walking through that right now. But in all of that,
you said, I love the saying that two things can
be true. Yes, and you very much just described that
(31:00):
there were two things kind of coinciding at the same
time often in our lives, and I think a lot
of people do struggle with that and understanding that it's
not black and white. Our lives are actually very much
in the gray area.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah yeah, And understanding and giving room for uncertainty is
important because there is way more that we don't know
than what we do know about the psyche and consciousness
and by human nature. And I think with you back
to your story, which I think is remarkable because you
got there and God bless you forgetting there. And I
think what's important is that when you got the life
(31:35):
that you wanted, you weren't going to sacrifice it for
a veneer. You didn't need to have someone in your life.
And I think you still need to look and that's
just the universal law of initiation. And the difference is,
and this is something that a lot of people don't understand,
desire can be fear. If you desire something so much
(31:55):
that you think you need it, I think it makes
you whole. Then is no longer longer desire and it
trips on fear. And what I mean by that is
you're afraid that if you don't get it, you won't
be sovereign, happy, or a whole. Everybody already is whole,
and that's a difficult concept to understand it, and I
kind of learned it this way. If my life is
(32:16):
gray and there clouds, and those clouds can be full
of water and really dark, these clouds can be thin
and almost see through. It doesn't matter how thick and
dark those clouds are. They're going to move and they're
gonna change. They're gonna get dark, and they're gonna get light.
And behind every one of those clouds and every one
of those storms, the sun is always still there. And
so everybody is actually whole, whether it looks like it
(32:39):
or not. Everybody has the ability and potential and existence
of being enlightened or have an ascension, the religious or
Christian capacity. It's there. It's only blocked by a lot
of things. Trick is just keep moving these things out
of the way, and so when you no longer have
fear and you're just desire becomes. This would be great,
(33:02):
but I don't need it. I'm good. Sun's shining. I'm
shining right. When you add someone, it just makes it shinier.
It's not a cloud. You don't need it. It's not
fear based desire.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yeah, well, I can tell you from a perspective of
having been on the other side of that before I
was there, and what I needed much what I bet
you would relate to, was your first marriage when you
thought you needed it. And so the situation you were
in was not a situation that was ideal.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
And not sustainable.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Yeah, and it was not.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
The relationship that you had seen for yourself. But then
when you go on to the other side of it
and like you say, no longer having that fear, you
do attract things that are much more rewarding and much
more important. And it's not driving out of this need
to have something, it's driving out of a want and
a desire that's much more complete.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah. And I don't want to overtrivilize the effort that
you went through because you, as well as other people
who get there, it doesn't mean you get rash and
it is dumb mate or possible relationship. Because you are
sovereign or more sovereign, you have probably a higher capacity
for compassion stage, but you also have high capacity for
(34:14):
patients and empathy as well. And she kind of has
to assess potential a little bit, not a big way
until they get better. But we all have a veneer,
all of us, and so if you're a little more sovereign,
and you see someone that feels great from a trauma
bond perspective and not from a resume perspective, those are
no longer variables that should be considered to have a
(34:36):
great relationship. But if you find someone who's maybe hasty
at times, or maybe raisis or tone a bad tone, now,
and again, I get it, you're going through something about
what is it? It doesn't mean you throw everything out
the window because you're sovereign and somebody at times has
moments and I still have moments as well. I'm coming
from someone who jumped out of a window with a temper,
(34:57):
so I'm not like an inherently calm person. Hey, so
now I went from jump out a window when I
was eighteen to raising my tone at times. It's a
long trajectory, But does it make me not on a
path of sovereignty because I lose my tone? One? And
so I think where you've gotten, you're able to be
a wider array of accommodation, assess things at a deeper
(35:19):
level and not so much supervisial. Yeah, very much.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
I think it's something that I wish for everyone. And
it's funny until I was sitting down here with you
and having this conversation. I don't know that I realized
I was doing anything different than anybody else.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
You know what I mean, You're probably different.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
And much of what you're talking about can describe a
lot of experiences that I've had.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
And it's often a conversation.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
People reach out to me and say, how do you
get to this point or how do I make sure
this happens? And I don't ever have an answer because
it wasn't a one way path. But sitting here talking
to you, I'm like, maybe there's something I can answer.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
To tell you, not at least head in a direction.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
And so it's interesting that this concept, this belief, everything
that you've created, especially written about in the book is
really an answer to that question.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Almost.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
I think everything in the book is to get people
to do what you did, which is listen. I'm talking
to my dad, who's eighty three. He came to Austin
for my son's graduation and we're talking about the future,
and he said, you know, a lot of my dad says,
a lot of my choices. I just kind of got
this idea to go to law school, and then someone
said go teach a class in law at junior college,
(36:26):
and I did, and those are probably two of the
most significant successful things I did in my life. And
he didn't know why. He's a product of the fifties.
And so from a spiritual perspective, it looks like this.
Everyone has a destiny. Okay, we don't know what it is,
and it's not what comes at us every day. It's
a long term. You're on the right train track put
that way, and on the right train of destiny. Things happen,
(36:49):
things that make you unhappy happen. But the divider is
whether you're making decisions for fear as an animal would
survival attachment. I need this. I'm going to play to
a fulfill a whole of my shadow. I was neglected
as a child, So this person makes me feel good.
(37:09):
Someone to ignore a lot of the red flags and
just get this need mat right. Those are decisions based
on fear, and those are decisions based on an analystic
behavior or egotistical or shado work behavior. And those are
decisions that will take you off of your destiny. And
that's back of the Leo Tolstoi quote. Is leaving your
whole life right, is making choices for the right reasons
(37:31):
that are open hard or open minded doesn't necessarily mean
they're easy. It means they feel right, really deep down inside.
And the way to look at intuition versus rationalization is
very difficult. And I've been researching this and researching Carl
Young papers and trying to give better explanations to how
you make decisions based on intuition not rationalization. And I
(37:52):
can't give you a great one besides follow your gut
and it will lead you the wrong way. And so
listen to the subtleties when it led to you the
wrong way, and give yourself a couple of years time
to judge because you learn periods. But other than that,
you did it and you listened. And that's what I
hope people can do is learn how to trust and
follow their intuition. And if they screw up, don't go
(38:12):
out the window. Just say, wait a minute, I may
have read it wrong. Let me look deeper at my
decision making process. What did I miss? What I thought
was intuition, which could have been rationalization.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Gosh, getting people to live in a more intuitive state
than out of fear and out of survival is hard.
We're in a very complex state of things, and so
it's encouraging people to live the best way that they
possibly can for their best life in a way, but
I know how hard that can be. I know how
hard that decision making process can be.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
And yeah, I had a session with my wife out
of this morning. Actually it's a fun story. Actually, I said,
I notice a pattern that you're developing. Super Benign was
talking about. But I said, it's kind of like my daughter. No,
that's not true, and she got kind of defensive. It
was being super It was like overordering food or something.
And I said, see, you think that defending yourself is
(39:07):
a more sustainable and more survivable response than saying, oh
really you think so? I guess I do that and
taking accountability, I believe is a much more powerful path
of survivability. And so she said, waity am, you're right,
that would have been more accurate. And I see how
I got a little afraid. I knew that. That was afraid.
(39:27):
I feel that, And I said the only reason I'm
bringing this up is to help you sort through these
internal feelings. And it was a really remarkable moment walking
in through Dadtown in Nashville after ordering coffee and saying, hey,
you're kind of ordered like my daughter these days. No,
I'm not. It was really funny, and so I think
you have to shift the belief to say to yourself
that there is a higher order of survival as an
(39:47):
animal when you're accountable and vulnerable than when you're not.
People think because they're afraid, it means lack of safety,
and I'm giving their story. Your brain believes that everything
that tells itself okay, And so fear is an emotion.
So if you ever feeling the emotion of fear, which
most people don't understand, and stress is fear, and again
(40:08):
desire can be fear, is that behind the emotion there's
a thought, and the thought of fear is danger. I
believe I'm in danger. Now most people are aware of
this pattern, that it's the thought first. That thought you
justly escapes them and the emotion pops up and you
can't stop emotions. But the second you feel fear, you
say I must be in danger. They feel fear. So
(40:31):
my wife's thinking, I think I'm in danger, that you're
judging me over how I order coffee when that was
the opposite. But instantly her mind begins to define the
thought of danger. And so when you sort through these
and you realize that in danger, but the hormone that
goes through your body of fear is the same hormone
that went through our ancestors' bodies running through a saber
(40:51):
to tiger. It's exactly the same hormone. Your brain cannot
tell the difference between danger. I think my husband's kind
of teasing me about how I order coffee or your
brain's it's like, no, I don't, no, I don't, And
instantly it's this hormone of running from the sabriage attiger
because it's dangerous. And I think people need to understand
that they have to process emotions and ask themselves what
am I in danger over?
Speaker 3 (41:10):
And that's so difficult.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
To do right until you had painted everything as fear.
I think fear dictates the majority of our lives.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
It does.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
I think there's a lot of moments that everybody can
look at in their life and realize that they reacted
in fear.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Yeah, and just look at this way that it's not
just fear, it's their identity that you've created for yourself.
So masculinity is identity. Femininity is an identity being a
supporter as an identity, being a provider as an identity,
being heeded as an identity, and then we react from
fear from that the near not our core self. And
that's what people don't realize is that their identity is responding.
(41:46):
I'm afraid that I've been caught. I'm afraid that my identity,
which my brain created to help me survive, is being attacked.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
I know that's feeling very well.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
So do I. Many times.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
I know that feeling. I think I have been in
that place so many times. Mostly, I think it's really
easy human nature just to want to have people perceive
the version that you put out, the version of you
that you think is the best that they should receive.
And so to break down that barrier and just give
(42:24):
them who you are without any bells and whistles. That
feels terrifying. That feels like there is no protection, there's
no security, there's no safety. We go back to that
safety feeling. And so to get people into that state
of mind, gosh, you're breaking walls down left and right
to be able to get there. It makes me want
(42:48):
to feel invisible, but it does, and I think there's
an uncomfort in that for a reason, just because the
world can be very scary, it can be very mean,
it can be very hard, and when you put that
up against the vulnerability, you don't want to write, you
don't want to put those things up next to each other,
(43:09):
because a vulnerable much like we've seen and speaking from
experience as a woman, being a confident or successful or
outgoing or blunt woman is automatically tried to get knocked down.
That facade gets knocked down very quickly. So just seeing
(43:32):
them break of the two as you're talking about it,
I'm like, I could see how that's really difficult for
people to do that and get there. So, yeah, I
love this because I think everybody's going to need what
I'm meeting right now.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
I think when you feel challenged, it's you thinking that
your identity is being challenged. If you don't have an
identity to be challenged.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Then those fems and so how do you strip back
having those identities? I know we talk about a facade,
and we talk about these layers, but how do you
really set yourself aside and no longer carry an identity
that maybe you've carried for.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Years a lifetime. Yeah, there's short answers, practice and a
lot of people use the word affirmations. I use practice.
So the question someone asked me once was could you
have done this if you didn't lose your house? I
lost my house, lots of business, say lost my I
didn't decrit bankruptcy because business debt, personal debt. It was
business debt. Sold the house to out the debt anyway,
so it doesn't sixteen My ex wife transferred all the
(44:29):
money into her name. I had sixteen dollars, just took everything.
You see gender roles. First, she managed all the bank accounts.
So I'm like, okay, I have sixteen dollars. So the
question is how could I have done Could I have
done this without giving it to that low spot? And
I don't know the answer to that question. Having lost
everything and then selling parts of the business to salvage
some debt, people would insult me the company's buying part
(44:52):
of our company kind of fell under the gas lighting
of my ex wife, and then he would insult me
life and and practice was this doesn't define me. And
I would say that over and over and over and over.
This doesn't define me. Another practice was that I tried
to stay present. And I don't mean present like my
(45:14):
attention in the present. What I mean by present is
I have the past identity that's the past, and I
have the future predicted outcome. So just try not to
think about the future or know myself as the past.
And so I would do tracks like I would sit
in the car and I wo'dst look at clouds and
say about how miserable your life is. Just look at clouds, okay,
(45:36):
and accept I have to accept that. Right now my
life is miss I mean sued by unions. I'm in
a lawsuit, getting divorced, I have to share my kids.
My ex wife, this and that or whatever are calling
me names, and employees are getting fired, and I just say,
this doesn't define me, This doesn't, this doesn't. It says
I am the same person. And in Victor Frankel's book,
(45:58):
man Search for Meeting helped a lot because he was
in Autchwitz and he was beaten and starving and diseased
and frozen, and his family killed and ate people to
a bed. And his greatest day was if the food
line someone dipped the ladle deeper in the soup because
you might get a pee because the peas hung out
at the bottom of the soup. Okay, my problems were
not looking at deep. The ladle went into a bowl
of soup, so I'd say, okay, so maybe I'd go bankrupt,
(46:19):
maybe I got to borrow some money from my parents
or my brother, or maybe I'm going to go on
vacation for a long time. Okay, great, but it doesn't
define me. It doesn't define me. It doesn't define me.
It doesn't define me. And I would say that a
thousand times a day, as many times as I needed
to say that, and then I would carry it out.
If I believe this, and I had people over for dinner,
I'm not going to ask them if they had a
nice time because I didn't have them here to have
(46:41):
a nice time. I had them here because they wanted
them here, and I did my best job, not for
the outcome, but because I wanted to it. So it
didn't matter because asking them only further define myself in
terms of my ego. So don't ask.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Gosh, I'm going to need that affirmation in my life
as I hear that. But it is interesting the perspective
to think of if you're able to get to the
thought process, the system that where you are right now
without hitting a breaking point. I do wonder if there's
a way to go about it, because to your point,
(47:17):
when everything is stripped away from you and you're just
sitting there left with bare minimum, the only way to
build yourself back up is to just start believing in
who you are and believing to your core that you
can do whatever you need to do to get out
of this. And there is I think we talk about
(47:38):
the animal kingdom in this conversation. I feel like there's
an instinct that's happening in there where you're like, I'm
going to figure out how to do this, but I'm
going to come back even better and I'm going to
It's almost like a lion, right the lion gets kicked out.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
If we talk about those groups of.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Lions and there's only one male that wins out, right, now,
does another male come in and win it out? And
I think that's a fight in about a Well maybe
there's something there. I don't know, but it feels like
you had this instinct in you to not just survive,
but to thrive because of it.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Well, I think because I believed that the path I
took in the past didn't work. The path I took
was conventional. College could a degree, get married, start a business,
make risks, work hard, kids, work hard, be smart at tension,
take risks. We just book on investment and its book
on management.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
You did everything right they were supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
And then I failed miserably and I closed to bankruptcy
and having no money at forty six. And now my business,
I wen't got a job for a couple of years,
and in part of business, my business is doing eight
figure is consistently every year. Right now, I have a wonderful, easy,
fantastic life and I'm so grateful for it. And I
don't mean that to say anything other than you can
do it, and that there are ways to do it.
(48:53):
And I take my spiritual practice with me in every
aspect of my life. And that's hard, especially at work
as a contractor, I have to look at seductive projects
and think, wow, time million, it's nice. I'm much of
like the owners. I'm I'm much here of like the
team cohesive. My inner voice is saying, you know that
(49:14):
bad teams, bad projects a walk, and I do.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
And you're evaluating now from a relationship and a belief
system now versus just trying to make money.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, And that comes from having the confidence that I've
transitioned from survival to thrive. And I know that if
my business loses money, which has times that might say lose,
it's shrunk. I let go of people, and as bad
as that is, I can't live my life and not
hurt people. Just the way life is, you have to
go okay here, Hurting people just happens. My kids are like, oh,
I'm not sure where they go to Moms or your
house for Christmas. Look, you're gonna hurt somebody. Just choose something,
(49:49):
live with it. Stop deciding based on other people's disappointment.
You have to live your life. You can't live your
life in their life at the same time. So just
do it. And I think for me to let people
go in the business shrinks, that's just part of being
sovereign and making tough decisions. And so I think I
now know this is a higher level of survival. My
life now is an example. I'm a guide. I'm not
(50:11):
here to be better than anybody. I'm here to say
these things are possible. This is what happened to me.
Take the pieces that are useful for you and use them.
And I guess the main messages and mainly for men
and for men who are pretending to be something they're not.
I'm a guide here to say, yeah, you can do
without having to pretend to be something.
Speaker 3 (50:28):
Ay, yeah, I think they need it.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
I should do.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Anybody out there needs to hear that message, but particularly men.
And I often have a lot of women on this
podcast talking about women topics, but I love giving men perspectives.
It's actually hard to find guests to speak to men.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
Men are too afraid to get honest truly, and so.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
I always anybody who's ever willing, and I'm like, let's
do this because I want to speak to that side,
to that population, because I think more men need to
hear these things.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Yeah, I think women can help. I think as a
man first of all, for women and for men. If
someone needs to pretend to be stronger, they're not. If
you're really strong, why you pret If you're really a catch,
why are you trying to make yourself look like a catch?
If you're great, you don't need to tell someone you're great. Okay.
It doesn't mean that at times you'll get overlook because
you will, but you're going to be overlooked from the
(51:18):
people that aren't. And so I think women and I,
by no means ever mean to blame anyone, and certainly
last woman. And I have to say that for men
are competitive with other men, and they observe when they're
successful when they're not. And hey, John over there, he
was kind of a dick. Got that girl. I need
to be I need to be more rude. More girls
like it when you have a lot of bravado and
(51:38):
you show your providers. Women got to advocate for yourself
and not put your energy into something facade. And men
who do not want those women don't look at it
like a loss. Don't look at it like you're losing out.
And John's got a better vibe or a better rap
than you do, because it's just a match based on
something on a different consciousness level. And I'm not saying bad,
(51:59):
I'm not saying wrong. I'm saying different. That's it. And
I think when David Hawkins again, I love Hawkins. He
has a scale of consciousness, and consciousness is an energy field,
and some people vibrate at a lower energy field, and
lower means more animal, more in survival, they steal, they're violent.
A lot of people in lower torn places are just
trying to survive and it's a more animalistic state of
(52:22):
Homo sapien. And then as you grow up the scale
of consciousness, your vibrational energy, your consciousness energy. We hear
this word a lot of energy. Energy can be emotions
which are transient, and also your consciousness level. As your
consciousness expands and you're more open hearted and open minded,
naturally will be more interested in different things. And so
(52:43):
that's where I want people. I hope people will go
to make the world a better place and mostly better
for themselves.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
And this is such a great conversation, not just from
female male perspective, but it's just a great conversation.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Human to human.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
We're trying to make the world a better place at
the end of the day, and to do that is
to have conversations like this. And I love everything you shared,
and I think sitting here, I could go down this rabbit.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
Hole for a really long time. I'm happy to come back.
I love Nashville. Keep it in mind, I have to come.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Back, and it's so good. This is so good for
people to hear. But I do want to make sure
if there's anything else, because that was typically have everybody
in one something inspirational or motivational but I feel like
you've shared so many beautiful moments of that. But is
there anything we haven't touched on that's heavy on your heart,
something that you really want to make sure we share,
or a point to get across to everybody today you.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Think there's a couple of main themes. There's nothing wrong
with anybody. Nobody's broken. Please don't think you're broken. And
one way to move towards a direction that's more conducive
to thriving than surviving is just asking yourself if this
works for me. At a very micro level, if the
(53:50):
food you eat in the morning doesn't work for you,
get new food. If you walk to work and it's
not fulfilling. I'm not advocating just saying quitting your job.
I'm saying use where you are as a stepping stone
to new life. But you have to at least recognize
and have some awareness. Awareness is a very key thing.
You have to be your own coach, and awareness is
a self coach. Coach tells you when to tuck in
(54:11):
your chin and you dive, and where to throw your
hand when you're pitching. You don't have that coach, and
so now you have to have your own coach and
say I'm aware that this is not a fulfilling career
for me, I'm going to transition into someone that I
think is going to be fulfilling. Well, I ride this out.
I'm not going to disrupt my life and I'm going
to move into a place it's better. Look for places
that you think aren't exactly perfect for you and find
(54:34):
him that the best life you can. Be selfish, that
the best life you can. Don't let anyone stop you
from having a perfect life.
Speaker 3 (54:42):
That's so good. You still ended up ending on something
inspirational or motovational, which just perfect.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
But much of what you said resonates with have your
own agency of your own life. And I think a
lot of people are desiring that, they're looking for it,
they're trying to figure out how, and this is a
great starting place. So make sure you check out Dave's
bo Bok Alpha's Die Early, and not just for men,
but for women as well, in anybody who's looking to
just challenge their thought process, which I think is a
(55:08):
great starting place for anyone to head on the path
to the perfect life that they want to live.
Speaker 3 (55:14):
So Dave, thanks for being.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
Here, and Margan, thank you for having me, I would
come back. You need to for the barbecue, but also
also for your show. Fair. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
It was fun to do a conversation like this one
challenging ideas we've been taught in the discourse around human evolution.
It's super fascinating to me. Dave's book is linked in
the show notes, as is his social media. If you
want to connect with him, you can watch these full
interviews on YouTube at Webgrolworking, or you can follow along
on the podcast Instagram at take this personally. That's it
for now. I'm so happy that you're here. Talk to
you next week.
Hosts And Creators
Bobby Bones
Amy Brown
Lunchbox
Eddie Garcia
Morgan Huelsman
Raymundo
Mike D
Abby Anderson
Scuba Steve
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