Caroline Beidler's story starts at just 9 years old... sitting under a tree, taking her first sip of alcohol, searching for comfort in a world that felt unstable and lonely. What followed was a journey through addiction, trauma, and ultimately recovery.
She shared what addiction really looks like beneath the surface, why recovery is about so much more than sobriety, how families can show up in ways that actually help everyone in involved, and the six words that changed her life forever: Your life has value and purpose.
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📲 Follow Caroline on Instagram: @carolinebeidler_official
📚 Read the book: When You Love Someone in Recovery
📲 Follow @takethispersonally & @webgirlmorgan on Instagram.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Personally fuelsman.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I hope you guys enjoyed the last series as we
are about to embark on a new one over the
next two weeks. I am having two women joining me,
and their stories are powerful and incredibly impactful. These are
some sensitive topics to talk about, but they are important
ones to have, and I highly encourage anyone to listen
to the interviews. That being said, I also wanted to
(00:38):
share what they're about in case it could be triggering
for some people. Some of the topics we discuss are
about addiction and sexual abuse, and now that we have
the formalities out of the way, I'm excited for you
all to meet Caroline and hear her story. Here we
go this week. I'm joined by Caroline, and I'm so
(01:01):
excited because not only is she great at so many things,
but she's an author and the biggest one is when
you love someone in recovery, which is what you're here
today to talk to us about. So tell me how
you even get started on this path to write a
journey like this, because I'm sure there's a story behind
all of it.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm so
excited to be here. When I'm asked that question. In
my mind, I always picture myself as a little girl.
So when I was about nine years old, I spent
a lot of time with my grandfather. My dad worked
a lot, my mom had taken off, and my grandpa
had a six pack of beer in the fridge for
my dad when he'd come pick us up. And I
(01:41):
remember I was about nine, and I stole a can
of beer from my grandpa's fridge and I took it
and I hid under this oak tree, and I just
remember like cracking that can and that sound and taking
a sip. And at nine years old, I mean I
was a baby. I felt like I was finally like
(02:01):
gonna be okay. And I think I was feeling so
alone and scared and had spent a lot of years,
even as a nine year old child, like just feeling untethered,
not having a foundation, not being supported, and so I
was seeking for something outside of myself to fulfill me.
And that first sip of alcohol at nine spiraled very
(02:26):
quickly into other substances, and as a woman with addiction,
I then went through a lot of trauma, sexual violence,
and other things that just led to as a young
girl already having gone through hard things to its snowballing
and just going and going, and I felt like I
was on this ride that just wasn't stopping, and I
(02:48):
was just going downhill so fast. By the time I
was seventeen, I experienced an overdose and at the first
time I was in addiction treatment, my counselor there really
encouraged me with words that I will never forget, and
he said, your life has value and purpose. And as
a seventeen year old, having survived an overdose and sexual
(03:11):
assault and abuse and neglect and so many different traumas,
I needed to hear that I can only imagine.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
And starting out, I go way back to when you're
a nine year old kid and you're having a drink
of alcohol for the first time, and as a nine
year old, you can't even comprehend what's about to come
that taking that drink would have sent you down this
path that you went down, because it doesn't sound like
you had the influences or the right structure in your
life to even provide that support. Am I correct in
(03:42):
assuming that.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, there was really no foundation for me and no
one to be pointing the way of like how you
should live. I grew up in an alcoholic home, and
so it felt so unstable, and the solution to anything
going on that was hard was to drink.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
It was to escape.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And so I think what I was trying to do
as a child was follow that example, which was escape
when I wanted comfort and I wanted peace, and the
only way I knew to find that was to use.
And that is a lie that I believed for a
really long time, that substance use could somehow fill that
hole in me and me feel okay.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
In You speak a lot about that childhood time too.
I'm assuming some of the work that you've done is
realize how much those childhood years are really impactful. In
realizing that as a kid, we like to believe you
can't remember a lot of things that happened to us.
You push things away and try and recall memories from
when you were five, six, seven, eight, and you can't write,
(04:39):
but those moments in your life impact you for the
rest of your life. So was that a lot of
your healing journey was working through a lot of those
things that you faced really early on?
Speaker 1 (04:50):
It was, and I think at the same time it
was also about learning how to live in a new way,
Like I shared, I didn't have a role model or example.
I would act come to experience faith and what that
meant in my life in my early twenties.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
But through the recovery journey, I.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Was able to and still today have been able to
not just heal from some of those past hurts and harms,
but learn through the process of recovery, how to live
in a healed and whole way. And when I am struggling,
which we're human and we all do, right, I know
where to turn. Like I know that using substances for
me will never satisfy, and so I am just like
(05:31):
my counselor said to me early on, that my life
had value and purpose. I am passionate about sharing that
message with other people because I know how impactful that
was to me, And there are so many young people today,
so many women, specifically, I work with a lot of
women and families who need to hear not just the
message that their life has value and purpose, also that
(05:52):
recovery is possible, that recovery is a way of life
that can help us heal and also be a kind
of lead us towards those solutions that actually do work.
And I talk a lot about those in my book.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
And talk to me too. Beyond the child that you
talk about having that overdose when you were seventeen. Was
that a catalyst for things to change for you or
was it just kind of part of the story.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, so I wish it was. I wish it was
a turning point for me. I think what ended up
happening and part of why I wanted to write this
book for families. My family had no idea what recovery was.
They had no idea what addiction was. They had no
clue how to show up for me, how to help me,
and I think they were really scared because they didn't
have the tools that they needed. They knew I needed treatment,
(06:38):
but for them at that time, they thought treatment was
this thing that I would do, go to this place,
get better, and then I would come home and I
would be cured and it would be fine. What happened
was I did go to this place and I got
better for a time. But what they didn't know, what
I didn't know was I needed a process of recovery
to help me over the long term, and that it
(06:59):
was just this kind of one and done healing experience.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
But it really is.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
A journey, and that it includes so much more than
just stopping substances, and I love to talk today about
how recovery is more than sobriety. It's about learning how
to become someone new. And I think often to that
little girl sitting under the tree who is so scared
and so alone and just wanting to feel okay and
feel okay in her own skin. And there are so
(07:27):
many people like sitting under their trees, wanting a solution,
wanting to feel okay, wanting to learn how to find
that peace and that comfort, And through the recovery journey,
we can do that and we can share that with
other people. I love talking about it. It's hard for
me sometimes to go back to that place and remember
some of those moments, but as I've learned in my
(07:49):
own recovery story, it's important to do that because when
we talk about those parts of our stories too, it
can bring help to people, and we can go through
hard things and things can get better.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
And it's probably a dressing too that it's not shameful
you had experiences and you were shaped by your experiences,
but it's proof that you can come out of them
and you can find a new path at any given moment.
And you did, and you mentioned that healing process for you,
and I imagine it's not a linear journey one and
(08:19):
two that you're also always going to be through that
healing process. It's not just like you mentioned, you don't
go to a treatment center and it's all over. You
might get healed and it might help you in that
moment of time, but this will be something that's part
of you forever. It's not this thing that just Okay,
put a band aid it heals or moving forward? Am
I wrong in that?
Speaker 3 (08:40):
I think you bring up an interesting point.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And I remember early on in my recovery people I'd
say I was in recovery or I was sober, and
people would look at me with almost this pity, Oh
my gosh, I'm so sorry, and feeling bad for me
for like I was missing out on something. And I
think the reality is, and I love to share that
recovery is so much more and it rings us to
a place of being able to live in such a
(09:03):
more full and joyful way.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
And so when we think.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
About sobriety versus recovery or what we learn in this process,
yes it can be seen as like a lifelong thing.
But I like to focus more on the fact that
I get to do this, Like I get to live
my life in a way that is more honest, in
a way that is more connected, in a way that
is more in tune with my faith and just with
(09:29):
my purpose and with sitting here with you having conversations
like this. When people ask me that, and I get
that question a lot, like do you have to do
this forever? I just want to reframe it just a
little bit, so I get to do this, Like I
get to do this, and I'm it's just such a
wonderful way to be, like I wish, And I think
my conclusion's titled recovery for everyone. Recovery can be for everyone,
(09:50):
and I kind of wish everyone could be in recovery.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
But that's just me. I love it so much.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
And so walk me through that feeling, because I think
that is right, Like I even ignorantly can see that
from my point of view, that's the experience that I've seen,
that's what I witness through other people, but I've never
had that personal experience. So walk me through why you
get to do this, what that feeling is like for
you As you are teaching other people, you're sharing your
(10:14):
story and what those experiences are like for you, because
that might help us start to really understand that other
side versus that always belief of thinking, Okay, this is
an entire lifelong journey. Walk me through these feelings and
stuff that you're talking about. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
So I actually start the book with the scene, and
it's a scene that's played out in the lives of
so many people that I've worked with, And I've been
to a lot of recovery meetings in different recovery spaces
where you'll hear people say the same phrase over and over,
which is when someone finds recovery, it's like the light
in their eyes comes back.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
And you might have encountered.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Someone who has been through the process of recovery or
has gone to treatment, and then you haven't seen them
for a while, and they come back and they're almost
like backlit, like the lights in this space, and they're
shining from the inside out. I think that what we
miss when we think about addiction recovery is something that
you're stopping substances, or it's a lack of or you
(11:08):
have to live a certain way that's so restrictive. We're
missing the point that it allows for this openness that
I think connects us as humans and such a true
and just the way that it's supposed to be. There's
a lot of folks that talk about this idea of
fellowship and sharing in recovery circles this honesty.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Where we can lead with being vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
And I always encourage folks if you haven't been in
a recovery meeting or a space, there's a lot of
them that are open where you can just attend as
a family member, but sit in a space like that
and you will experience, amidst probably more pain than you've
ever heard of, or really hard things than you've ever heard,
an incredible amount of joy and laughter and lightness. And
(11:54):
when I think about that, hope folks who are watching
or listening no notice when you meet someone in recovery,
what are they like? Does it look like when you
look in their eyes that they're lacking or missing something?
I was say, one hundred percent of the people that
I've met in recovery a sustained, long term recovery. It
is like this joyful gift that we want to share.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
And it sounds like community, right. You're relating to people
who have had shared experience in some way or form,
or who have experienced this side to all of this
that a whole other group of people don't understand. So
to have a community around something that's really hard, or
at one point was really hard for your life, I imagine,
is really a cool experience, especially today because community is
(12:39):
pretty lost on us, So having a shared community like
that is beneficial for anything.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
I remember the first actual recovery meeting I went to,
and I was probably in my mid twenties, late twenties,
and I walked into the space and the room everyone
around the circle of chairs looked different men, women, different ages,
socio demograph but just all of it was just this
diverse group. And I remember the feeling though, when I
walked in and I sat down, and I finally felt
(13:08):
like I could take a deep breath because I felt
like I was home, Like I felt like I found
my family. And I've heard of people talk about churches
this way, and certainly if I've had experiences there, But
there's something about when you're connected to people that have
that same lived experience, it's like you get each other.
I could be sitting next to someone who has different
life experiences, but they're in addiction recovery. I connect with
(13:30):
them almost immediately because we know each other. The experiences
don't have to be exactly the same, but like they
know what it feels like to be that little girl
under the tree because they have their own version of
that story. And so community is one of the key
pillars that I talk about in my book that is
instrumental to recovery. And so for families especially who are
(13:52):
trying to discern and figure out how do I help
my loved one, maybe they're loved ones coming out of
addiction treatment, one of the first things I write recommend
is make sure your person is connected in that community.
Now it's not on the family to do that for them,
but having community and social support is one of the
key pieces of I think the puzzle in terms of
(14:14):
how we get support. And it's not just addiction recovery, right,
it's any type of grief support, divorced support for fitness, health, wellness.
But yeah, I think it's an amazing part of the journey.
In my late twenties, when I walked into that space,
that was the beginning of my actual sobriety and recovery story,
and I had spent almost a couple decades at that
point struggling with substance use.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
It was the beginning of.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
My finally understanding that I didn't have to do this
by myself anymore, and that feeling that I had been
seeking and searching for my whole life. It wasn't like
in something that I was going to be taking as
a substance.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
It was in the circle.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
It was in the fellowship of people who had that
same lived experience.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
And you were talking about loving somebody with this and
community being a big basis of that. What are some
other things. You're probably gonna have people on both sides
of the spectrum, one that's in recovery and you have
one that's dealing with the person who is in recovery.
So how is the best way to walk through that.
Let's look at it from the outside point of view.
How to because that's what your book is really about,
(15:15):
is loving somebody through their recovery. How do you show
up for them in a way that really matters? Because
they'll have this community, I'm sure they'll have other ways
of working through it. But how can you just a
normal person show up every day for somebody that's going
through this process or have maybe already been through the process.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, I think that's such an important question. When I
was really struggling as a teenager, and like I shared it,
had been through some really hard things. I remember my
family and other people in my life saying and questioning
me like Caroline, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this
to us?
Speaker 1 (15:52):
And I really wish someone would have asked a different question,
which is what happened to you?
Speaker 3 (15:58):
And I wish people would have just sat with me
like this and listened to my store.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
And I think we over complicate support sometimes where we
feel like we have to say the right thing or
do the right thing, when really it's a showing up.
It's a listening and doing so in a compassionate, empathetic way.
And I in my book, I have some practical like
how to's of okay, here's some ideas of how you
(16:24):
can show up, communication, things you can talk about with
your loved one, But the listening is just such an
important part of that. And I think so many families
have been burned and maybe feel really hurt and discouraged
and will this even matter? Showing up and showing love
in those simple ways of sitting and listening or texting.
(16:45):
I even tell families, buy your loved one lunch, go
out for lunch, buy them groceries. My dad did that
for me when I was really struggling, and I'll never
forget it. And it wasn't some like big grand gesture,
but it was showing up and meeting a need that
I have. Yeah, and I think one of the biggest
needs we have is to be understood and to be heard,
and so we can do that for each other and
it will go a really long way in supporting our
(17:07):
loved ones.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
You mentioned the groceries and having things delivered, because one
of the things when it comes to supporting somebody, we
often will ask them, what can I do for you?
How can I show up for you? Or let me
know if I can help you. But I feel like
the best way to truly support people is showing up
without asking. And sometimes you have to force your support
(17:29):
because it's often that we don't want to ask for
help in any scenario. I would especially imagine that it's
this type of recovery where you're not trying to ask
for help, You're not trying to bother people. You just
want to move through and work on your recovery. So
the ways of showing up just by listening and by
buying groceries, I feel like, are really impactful.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
That's it exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
And I think, like I shared, we overcomplicate showing up
and I think sometimes just having that space to listen
can be so impactful.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
But yeah, that moment with my dad.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
We had a really tumultuous, really hard relationship for a
very long time, and I remember I was living in
this run down apartment and hadn't seen him for a
really long time, and I came down the stairs and
walked outside the building and it was like the way
he looked at me, I could just see it in
his eyes. He was so sad and so worried when
(18:25):
he took me out for this meal and then he
took me to the grocery store. And I will never
forget that. And they had to have a lot of
boundaries around how they showed up to support me, but
just that extension of I'm here, I want to meet
what need you have in a way that's safe for me,
and it made me feel loved. And I think one
(18:45):
of the things that family members may forget sometimes is
that through the process of addiction and some of the
traumas we've experienced because of that, or leading up to
why we want to use substances problematically and end up
developing addiction. We carry so much shame. I had so
much shame because of what had been done to me
and what I had done in my act of addiction.
(19:06):
I didn't feel worth help. And it wasn't until I
walked into those rooms of recovery in my twenties where
I'm like, Wow, I'm not alone, and you know what,
maybe I do deserve connection, and maybe I do deserve
help and care, and yeah, it's a beautiful gift that
we can give other people. And I also want to
make the point too that because loved ones often are
(19:27):
burned and hurt and are having a hard time trusting,
you don't have to show up and love your person
and recovery or struggling with addiction alone. I think that's
when we can really lean on our community too, as
affected family members and loved ones to get support.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Sounds like to me that there's also a lot of
steps in this process. So tell me what that was
like for you, because it wasn't just that you were
also recovering from addiction, but you also had things that
happened in your life. You had mentioned right at the
beginning that there's all of these moments in times that
are happening connected, I would imagine, but isolated as well.
(20:02):
So tell me what those experiences were like as you
were healing, because you were not just on this addiction
recovery side. You were healing trauma, you were hearing experiences,
you were going through stuff that was really difficult on
its own.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, And I think that's one of the things that
folks get wrong sometimes and they think that it's just
about the substance use, like you need to stop using
substances and then you'll be okay. But the reality is
most of us end up using substances and get trapped
in addiction because of the trauma that we've experienced. There's
these conditions and things, these challenges that we've faced that
(20:42):
addiction is just the symptom of something greater going on.
And so what I learned over time, and I've worked
with so many people and it is a hard but
amazing experience, is that through the recovery process, you have
these layers that kind of get stripped away. So for me,
it was after actually five years in recovery. It was
five years I was sober until I started digging into
(21:05):
some of the trauma that I had experienced, because while
I had stopped using substances, I still struggled with other things,
relationships with men and food and exercise and some of
these other ways that I tried to feel better to
get that comfort and support. And so I think, what's incredible,
and I talk about recovery pathways in my book is
(21:25):
recovery is not just like you said, it's not linear.
It's not addiction to recovery. It's a journey and it's
a winding one where we find out and discover that
over time, we need different things in different seasons. And
so in five years in recovery, I needed mental health support.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
For my trauma, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
And then seven years in recovery, I needed a lot
of support with learning how to communicate with my now husband.
And fast forward I have seven year old twins, and
so now it's.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
How can I show up and be a mom in recovery?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
How can I write books and be of service and
live out this calling and purpose on my life and
show up for the people in my life.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
So it's I love how in different seasons of recovery,
what we need changes.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, and wow, you the polar opposite, right, you're now
raising You were talking about the very beginning of this podcast,
the young girl sitting underneath a tree, and now you're
about to have your boys. You said they're seven years old.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yeah, boy and a girl.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, boy and a girl. Okay, so twin yes, and
there are two years from hitting the mark. That was
like a big changing point for you. When you think
about that, does that bring a lot of emotions and
experiences that you feel like you're going to have to
work through and understand what that all looks like. Or
you're like, no, at this point, I got this. I
know what's happening.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
I hadn't thought about that them being so close to
that age. We are very open about addiction and recovery
in our family now, and so that's a gift that
I want to give to my kids that it's not
something that is hidden or secretive. I and my husband
recovery is a way of life in our home. My
daughter's so cute. She tells me, Mommy, I want to
(23:00):
in recovery. I'm like, awesome, Hopefully you don't go down
the same road I did.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
To get there.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
But yeah, if you want to be in recovery, that's cool.
But being open about having those conversations because even at
elementary school, they are having kids talking about substance use,
and so I always encourage, especially parents with young kids, teenagers,
even young adults. You cannot shy away from having those
uncomfortable conversations. We talk about drug use, We talk about
(23:25):
substance use. Just the other day, my son told my daughter,
I think you're addicted to those cookies, and I'm like, yep,
but sugar is very much a realizing is very very true.
So just being able to have those conversations is so helpful.
But I hope that they have the tools that I
didn't have, and so I think part of what I
try to do is share that message with other folks
(23:45):
and families. And it doesn't stop with our experience, and
it doesn't stop with our loved ones. We need to
also look at the next generation coming up, because what
the research shows is most people like me who develop
a substance use disorder or addiction start their drug use
or whatever use whatever they're using. And as that like
ten eleven twelve age range and so, yeah, it's so
(24:07):
important to have those conversations.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I think about that. You're like, there's no way, they're
too young. But even in your experience, it all depends
on the environment year around, the things that you're exposed to.
And I think kids are being exposed more earlier to
things than they ever have before, especially with internet and
technology and the things that they can see, even not
(24:30):
just goking on YouTube, which so many of them have
access to. So I do think it's an important conversation
and one that we should be having, unfortunately sooner rather
than later. But were you also experiencing as you first
started talking to your kids about this, where they were like,
what is that? What are we talking about? What are
these things? Because they obviously probably weren't exposed to it yet,
(24:50):
but you do want them to be aware of it
when they do get exposed to it. As somebody who
doesn't have kids, maybe as somebody who has really young
kids and hasn't faced this yet, what was that like?
Get in those moments where you're trying to explain everything
and have them be informed while also educating them on
what a lot of things are.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, I live in our house. The starting point is
an addiction, it's actually a recovery, and so we started
the conversation talking about what recovery is. And so I
actually asked my daughter and son, just gearing up for
the book release, what do you guys think?
Speaker 3 (25:21):
And it was so cute.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
My daughter said, recovery is healthy and then my son said,
it's about giving back and being thankful, and yes, those
are key pieces of the recovery journey. So for them,
their starting point isn't stopping something or staying away from this,
it's where's the starting point?
Speaker 3 (25:37):
How do we want to live?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Because if my kids are grateful, if they're being of
service in their communities, and if they're healthy, if they're
treating their bodies and minds in a healthy way, they're
going to be a lot less likely to be sitting
under that tree looking towards something that's going to be
unhealthy for them in the future. So I don't start
with the whole like Dare. Let's say no, which I
was in the Dare generation. If you all remember, it's
(26:00):
actually won an award I think for an essay that
I did back in elementary school and then fast forward
here I am didn't work for me, but I think
instead of focusing on like the no and what not
to do? What kind of life do we want to live?
And I was speaking to a group of high school students,
this is a couple of years ago, and we were
talking about substance use, and they said, it is.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Rampant in our high school.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
You can't even go in the bathroom in a public
high school without all the vape smoke and the pills
and everything else, and it's just And I asked them,
I said, why do you think it is?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Why are so many.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Kids turning towards substance use? And they all had the
same answer, the same word, and it shocked me. And
it was stress.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Stress.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
So maybe they didn't experience someone like the major traumas
that I had. But kids today, young people are so
stressed and they're looking for ways to cope. So again
that starting point of not let's not do that, but
what can we do to help you cope with being
a human today? So I love to have those conversations too.
I think it's so important. And then of course also
(27:03):
again not shying away from talking about things like we've
already started talking about prescription medication. You shouldn't take a
prescribe medication that wasn't prescribed to you, and just some
of those other things that they're going to be facing
as they get older.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
O A that line that you said of learning to
be a human today, which is really important, right because
our experiences that we had as kids are drastically different
than the experiences that they're having today, and it means
we have to adjust, we have to look differently at
how that's happening. And a lot of what you're talking about, too,
(27:38):
is rewriting that script. Instead of focusing on certain negative things,
it's just let's figure out how you want it this way,
and it's like a Jedi mind trick a little bit,
if you will. Or you're just trying to focus on
how to change that narrative of speak that we're using.
You mentioned that with the don't say no to drug
(28:00):
and all of that, but instead what do you want
your life to look like? Redirecting the energy to things
that are more positive and more focused on you being
able to write that. I think that's a lot of
what we get wrong with so many things is don't
do this, don't do that, You can't have this, be
aware of this. There's no conversation around, well, then, what
(28:21):
should I be doing or what should I be looking.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
At right exactly? Actually reminds me in addiction treatment. When
I was a teen, we had an exercise that we
did and it was impactful. I still remember it I'm
in my forties now, but it was write a list
of on one side of the paper, what you're doing now,
everything you're doing now, all the behaviors, all the things.
And the other side it was where do you want
to be? What do you want your life to look like?
(28:45):
And then we look at both sides of the paper
as those aren't lining up, But how do we get folks, kids,
all of us really to the point of, here's what
we want for our lives. What are we doing now
that's going to get us there? And I think it's
more than like this goal oriented mindset, which I also love,
but it's a recovery oriented one because we're again we're
focusing on those positive, healthy things, ways of being, ways
(29:09):
that we can be a human in a world today
that aren't just healthy for us, but they're healthy for
our families and our communities. And yeah, I love that
what you're sharing about focusing there instead of on what
not to.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Do and flipping to the other side because we talked
about the family side. But I do want to address
because how was it for you? Can you speak to
those people who are potentially on this road and they
don't know it. Maybe they don't know that this is
happening in their life, Maybe they're unaware that they're having
an addiction even at that point, because I think a
(29:40):
lot of what struggles for people to get to the
point of recovery is often that they don't know what's
happening to them, or it takes a catalyst to show
them that it's happening. But I want to speak to
that community too, because I don't know that we do
all that often. So can you talk to them and
what that experience was like for you, because maybe they're
going through and they just can't identify it.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, I think that's such an important question to ask
because there's this like either you're this or you're that,
but some of us live in the middle. And if
someone's trying to figure out, like do I have a
problem with substances? Could this be spiraling out of control?
I think the first thing I would say that if
you're asking that question, be mindful of that that you're
(30:22):
to the point of asking yourself that question and then
focus on again, where do you want to be? So
I've worked with a lot of mothers who are like,
it's the whole, like mommy wine o'clock thing, right five o'clock.
And I think society has kind of normalized some of
that behavior and almost kind of made fun of it
and made light of it when it can be very
harmful for women. But if you're finding yourself like preoccupied
(30:46):
thinking a lot about drawing these boundaries, I'll only do
this on the weekend, and then you cross that line.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
There's some of.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
These key indicators that there could be more going on.
And actually, for my day job, my husband jokes I
have so many hats that I wear, but one of
my hats I work for recovery dot com and so
it's a website that helps people connect with treatment, either
their mental health or addiction treatment. We actually have quizzes
on there, so you can go and take a quiz, hey,
the alcohol quiz or alcohol tests, and it guides you
(31:13):
through some questions like do I have a problem with this?
So I would suggest if you're asking that question, pay
attention to it. Pay attention to maybe some of the
things that you could be doing or thinking, and then.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Reach out for support. Because there are a lot of
options available for and you.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Say reach out for support, I have to imagine that's
not an easy thing to do. So what if you're
struggling with that of reaching out starting to make that change?
Because change is also really hard. We love to be comfortable,
We love to believe that what we're doing is totally fine,
it's okay, it'll work itself out. But making that step,
(31:51):
that very first step that really matters, that's going to
change the trajectory of everything. Talk to that experience, because
I know that's one that people will definitely have questions about.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yeah, change is hard. Change is so hard. If you've
tried to change anything, maybe it's a diet or yeah,
stopping drinking alcohol or whatever type of change. It can
be comfortable to be in the same spot and just
keep doing what we're doing, and not only that, like
our brains, the whole neuroscience behind habit and behavior can
become just this like pattern that we continue, and it's
(32:22):
really hard to break from that cycle. I think the hopeful,
though and encouraging thing is we can and with addiction, recovery,
substance use. It used to be like when I started
my journey, it used to be this very stigmatized, like
you know, oh, you have a problem with substances like this,
almost like this is like leprosy, almost like oh my gosh,
(32:43):
that's so different.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
I'm definitely not like that person.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Whereas today, because of like social media and people talking
about recovery and very open about either being in recovery
or alcohol free, there's this whole alcohol free movement that
it's normalized. It's becoming more normalized. So I would just
encourage folks if you're feeling scared to reach out. It
is not an unusual experience today. It's actually a really
(33:08):
common one. In the US alone, there's like almost twenty
four million people in recovery. It's just like a wild number.
It is a very common thing. And and I have
a love hate relationship with social media. But the good
thing is about social media for people in recovery is
so many of us talk openly about it. So you
just do the little old school hashtag thing or look
(33:29):
at some people talking about recovery. It's like, wow, it's amazing.
And not just that, but there are people who are
openly talking about their challenges too and their struggles.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
We don't need to feel alone in our experience.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
That's where I would suggest if you're feeling scared to
reach out, you're not alone. So many people are in
that place. And then maybe go back to that assignment
that I had in treatment, which was what are you
doing now? What's your life look like now? Where do
you want it to be? And are those things lining up?
If they're not, you have options. There's things that you
can do.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
To change that.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Yeah, that's really good for that whole process, and you
mention it to it. There's a love hate relationship with
social media for sure, but you see it more often
now and it's normalizing it, which I think is the
behavior that we need when it comes to conversations like this.
A lot of conversations we have on this podcast, the
whole purpose is to normalize them and having the conversation
versus not And it brought up something that I wanted
(34:23):
to ask about because I also imagine with that many
people struggling, you have so many people out in the
dating world and dating partners.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
What was your.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Experience like with dating as you'd gone through this because
I imagine that also brings challenges.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
It was.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
That's a whole nother podcast episode. There's a lot to
unpack there, and I'll just it was challenging at first,
I think for a lot of different reasons, because I
needed to find out who I was. I needed to
find out who I was sober in recovery, and I
also needed to heal.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
From a lot of what I'd experienced. So I needed
to feel at home in my.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Body and myself where I was able to be in
a relationship with someone else. I had a mentor early
on who told me I was kind of obsessing about
I want this kind of person and I'm in recovery,
so you know, this is what I want for my life.
And she said, are you at the point where you
can be that person for someone else? Are you that
person that checks all those boxes? And that was a
moment for me like, oh, I need to do some
(35:20):
more work. So did I have some questionable dating experiences
in early recovery? One hundred percent yes, and I wish
I could turn back time and change those I think
we recommend people don't date until at least a year
in recovery. If you were having some challenges and things
like that. I just rebelled against that, but I ended
up finding an incredible partner and have just had not
(35:41):
always easy, but this amazing experience of being in a
relationship and a loving relationship, healthy one. He's not in recovery,
which some people are like, oh really, which I love
because I bring my experience and then he brings his.
But he's been so willing to learn and listen. And
part of what I wanted to write the book was
to have the guy that my husband wish he had
(36:05):
when we met, that my family, my parents wish they
had when I was struggling.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
And yeah, he's so funny. My husband.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
When the book came out, all the Amazon reviews are
coming in and I looked and I'm like, Caroline, my
name was on there. I'm like, honey, and then you
put I'm Caroline's husband, and I think this about the book.
I'm like, you got to change the name, but anyway
from your pay for my Amazon account. But it was
so sweet because he's I think something like, my family
has lived this, We've lived this journey, and relationships are
(36:33):
hard no matter what when you're in recovery. I think
you need to be at home in yourself and learn
who you are first. And maybe that's advice for everyone,
not even in recovery. But yeah, and then I think
the other thing that was so helpful for me was
bringing other people, specifically women who had walked the road,
who were a bit older, who could help guide me
through through that, who could speak that truth and girl
(36:57):
like you better slow down. Yeah, I wouldn't date that
guy and that meeting, but who could provide some counsel
and wisdom. Definitely, folks listening who may be thinking about
a relationship and recovery, have some discernment, and I think
bring some people around you that can help you with them.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
And you mentioned being there for other people. I'd love
to know about this. And are they called sponsors still?
Is that still a thing.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Yeah, So for some recovery pathways, there's twelve step, there's sponsors,
there's a whole it's like a whole menu now of
like sponsors, recovery coaches, peer support specialists, mentors. It depends
what recovery pathway. I love to say mentor because it
adds all of those different ones together. But yeah, I
think throughout different pathways, the key part is someone who
(37:38):
has been there, who has been there first, lived through it,
and can now look back and speak truth and speak
in a way that provides like wisdom for you and
direction for you. It's one of the things I wish
everyone again, everyone could be in recovery, because living with
that type of support is just incredible. If I'm struggling
(37:59):
and this happens even today, I will call a woman
who has forty almost forty years in recovery and tell
her like, hey, this is what's going on, and she'll
tell me, she'll share her experience and she'll listen to me,
and there's nothing like it.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
There's nothing like it.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
I love hearing those because that's another back to the community.
But that's an extension of that community. And you see
stuff in TV shows and stuff, and I wanted to
make sure we're sharing the true side of it, not
just the depicted side in entertainment. But I think those
support systems, it's something that I think mentorship in general
is just such a huge asset to anybody, but especially
(38:35):
of somebody who again can create that lived experience for
you and really help you navigate through it is invaluable.
So those are cool, and it's cool to hear that
you had those and you still have those.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah, And I think anyone who's walking like a long
term sustand recovery, it's a key piece of it. I
actually started a nonprofit called the Women's Recovery Leadership Foundation.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
And that's exactly what it does.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
It pairs younger women with women who've been there and
can walk alongside them and help support, empower equip them,
not just professionally but personally too.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
You really are wearing a lot of hats.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
I am. Yes, indeed I am.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
He's coming on, but it's all under this same umbrella.
Really just trying to expand this community and help in
the ways that it helped you, which I think is
really cool.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
And going back to what my counselor told me in
treatment as a teen, of those six words, your life
has purpose and value, I needed to hear that. I
didn't know it. I didn't believe it. I didn't think
I would live to be thirty. I didn't think my
life mattered. I had so much shame and I just
had such low self worth about who I was. I
remember I used to walk around like with my hoodie
up looking at the ground. I couldn't even make eye
(39:41):
contact to people in the grocery store. I've had such
a low feeling about myself, yet those words that were
spoken to me just it was like a seed was
planted in my heart. And today I want everyone to know,
especially women and families, but people struggling in an addiction
and also in recovery, that your life has value and
(40:02):
purpose And it's incredible what can come from that pain,
what can be redeemed through the hard parts of our story,
and recovery is just like a light that is a
light along that path that kind of illuminates that road
for us. Yeah, I want everybody to be backlit and
just bright eyes shining in recovery.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
And I'm thinking now too. You just said that you
didn't think you would live till thirty at one point
in your life. But now you're married, you have two kids,
you got a book, you're created nonprofits, You've done all
of these things. Like if you could tell that young
nine year old something, what would you tell her, if
you had the chance to go back to her and
(40:42):
give her a little bit of insight, what would be
that thing that you would say that would matter to her.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Yeah, I want to add to that list. I drive
a minivan too. We love that would happen, but I
would just.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Pull her close and give her the biggest hug and
tell her that her life had value and purpose, and
I would walk alongside her.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
I think a lot of people need to hear that today,
that their life has meaning and it has purpose, it
has value. We are truly in a lonely epidemic across
massive amounts, which is also resulting in a lot of
things of addiction and substance abuse and everything across the board.
The gosh six words, you never knew they could have
so much meaning. But it's cool to see where you're
(41:21):
at now and walk through the entire journey with you.
And I appreciate you sharing it because, like you said,
I know it's still hard. It doesn't even though it's gone,
doesn't mean walking through those moments again doesn't bring back
certain things. So I appreciate you sharing that. I like
to end the podcast not that this whole podcast has
not been a piece of advice or motivation, but maybe
something that's heavy on your heart. It can be inspiration
(41:43):
or motivation or just something you want to mention that
we didn't get to. I give the floor over to
you and you end us on something.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Yeah, I would say, well, this has just been heavy
on my heart. If there's someone listening or watching who
feels like the weight of their loved ones struggle with
addiction or even into early recovery is too much to bear,
that they don't have to carry that weight alone. And
I think a lot of families feel this burden and
(42:10):
these questions. Am I enabling? Should I show tough love?
Am I doing the right thing?
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Am I helping? Am I harming?
Speaker 1 (42:16):
And I think families and loved ones need to just
have this invitation to set.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
That weight down. You don't have to carry your struggle alone.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Like I shared, addiction recovery impacts almost everyone, if not everyone,
in some way, whether it's your spouse or your neighbor,
or your child, or your pastor we all know someone,
and so you don't have to carry it alone. You
can reach out for support. And I just want to
end with a story. So there was a woman I
interviewed for my book, and she told me about a
(42:47):
small group she had at her church. And while she
was going to this small group, her friend's daughter was
in cancer treatment and her daughter, who was in cancer
treatment this friend had all of the help. She had
prayer chains and meal chains, we love to bring our
cast roles, and she had all of this support. And
she said, during that same period of time, my son
was an addiction treatment and I didn't have any phone calls,
(43:10):
any texts, any prayer chains, any flowers, any cast roles,
she said, but my son was sick too and I
needed support too. And I like to tell that story
and be reminded of that because I think it shows
something important, which is it shouldn't all fall on the
family member or the person impacted by addiction or recovery.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
The community other.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
People need to step up and love, need to step
up and step in and love that family member when
it's hard for the other person to do. We need
to pray and to send those flowers and to bring
those cast roles, and to show up in those simple
loving ways, because addiction is when it boil it all down.
It's a human struggle, just like any other hard thing
(43:54):
that's human, right, and so we need to show up
for each other.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Mm hmm, Yes we do. That's a really good message,
and I'm glad you shared that because it is we
often it's with most things in life. We love to
highlight certain things and downplay others, and it's a perfect
example of it. So hopefully we can stop doing that.
Hopefully that's the momentum forward to just at least be
a little bit more curious, ask more questions. We also
(44:17):
never know the struggles that people face in their everyday life,
and that's often where we get caught up in. It's
easy to see a lot of the really bad if
people's posting it on social media, but a lot of
struggles come internally and we don't discuss them, so will
silently struggle. And I hate that. So I appreciate you
being here to share and talk about everything. So thank
you so much.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Thank you. I've really just enjoyed talking with you, and
thank you for highlighting this issue. It's so important.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
If you'd like to check out Caroline's book, I'll link
it in the show notes. And I just want to
share a special shout out to all of those in
recovery and those walking with your loved ones in recovery.
You're doing great and we see you. Subscribe so you
don't miss Darlene's story next week wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm so happy that you're here, each end, every one
of you.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Bye.
Personally fuelsman.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I hope you guys enjoyed the last series as we
are about to embark on a new one over the
next two weeks. I am having two women joining me,
and their stories are powerful and incredibly impactful. These are
some sensitive topics to talk about, but they are important
ones to have, and I highly encourage anyone to listen
to the interviews. That being said, I also wanted to
(00:38):
share what they're about in case it could be triggering
for some people. Some of the topics we discuss are
about addiction and sexual abuse, and now that we have
the formalities out of the way, I'm excited for you
all to meet Caroline and hear her story. Here we
go this week. I'm joined by Caroline, and I'm so
(01:01):
excited because not only is she great at so many things,
but she's an author and the biggest one is when
you love someone in recovery, which is what you're here
today to talk to us about. So tell me how
you even get started on this path to write a
journey like this, because I'm sure there's a story behind
all of it.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm so
excited to be here. When I'm asked that question. In
my mind, I always picture myself as a little girl.
So when I was about nine years old, I spent
a lot of time with my grandfather. My dad worked
a lot, my mom had taken off, and my grandpa
had a six pack of beer in the fridge for
my dad when he'd come pick us up. And I
(01:41):
remember I was about nine, and I stole a can
of beer from my grandpa's fridge and I took it
and I hid under this oak tree, and I just
remember like cracking that can and that sound and taking
a sip. And at nine years old, I mean I
was a baby. I felt like I was finally like
(02:01):
gonna be okay. And I think I was feeling so
alone and scared and had spent a lot of years,
even as a nine year old child, like just feeling untethered,
not having a foundation, not being supported, and so I
was seeking for something outside of myself to fulfill me.
And that first sip of alcohol at nine spiraled very
(02:26):
quickly into other substances, and as a woman with addiction,
I then went through a lot of trauma, sexual violence,
and other things that just led to as a young
girl already having gone through hard things to its snowballing
and just going and going, and I felt like I
was on this ride that just wasn't stopping, and I
(02:48):
was just going downhill so fast. By the time I
was seventeen, I experienced an overdose and at the first
time I was in addiction treatment, my counselor there really
encouraged me with words that I will never forget, and
he said, your life has value and purpose. And as
a seventeen year old, having survived an overdose and sexual
(03:11):
assault and abuse and neglect and so many different traumas,
I needed to hear that I can only imagine.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
And starting out, I go way back to when you're
a nine year old kid and you're having a drink
of alcohol for the first time, and as a nine
year old, you can't even comprehend what's about to come
that taking that drink would have sent you down this
path that you went down, because it doesn't sound like
you had the influences or the right structure in your
life to even provide that support. Am I correct in
(03:42):
assuming that.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, there was really no foundation for me and no
one to be pointing the way of like how you
should live. I grew up in an alcoholic home, and
so it felt so unstable, and the solution to anything
going on that was hard was to drink.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
It was to escape.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And so I think what I was trying to do
as a child was follow that example, which was escape
when I wanted comfort and I wanted peace, and the
only way I knew to find that was to use.
And that is a lie that I believed for a
really long time, that substance use could somehow fill that
hole in me and me feel okay.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
In You speak a lot about that childhood time too.
I'm assuming some of the work that you've done is
realize how much those childhood years are really impactful. In
realizing that as a kid, we like to believe you
can't remember a lot of things that happened to us.
You push things away and try and recall memories from
when you were five, six, seven, eight, and you can't write,
(04:39):
but those moments in your life impact you for the
rest of your life. So was that a lot of
your healing journey was working through a lot of those
things that you faced really early on?
Speaker 1 (04:50):
It was, and I think at the same time it
was also about learning how to live in a new way,
Like I shared, I didn't have a role model or example.
I would act come to experience faith and what that
meant in my life in my early twenties.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
But through the recovery journey, I.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Was able to and still today have been able to
not just heal from some of those past hurts and harms,
but learn through the process of recovery, how to live
in a healed and whole way. And when I am struggling,
which we're human and we all do, right, I know
where to turn. Like I know that using substances for
me will never satisfy, and so I am just like
(05:31):
my counselor said to me early on, that my life
had value and purpose. I am passionate about sharing that
message with other people because I know how impactful that
was to me, And there are so many young people today,
so many women, specifically, I work with a lot of
women and families who need to hear not just the
message that their life has value and purpose, also that
(05:52):
recovery is possible, that recovery is a way of life
that can help us heal and also be a kind
of lead us towards those solutions that actually do work.
And I talk a lot about those in my book.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
And talk to me too. Beyond the child that you
talk about having that overdose when you were seventeen. Was
that a catalyst for things to change for you or
was it just kind of part of the story.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, so I wish it was. I wish it was
a turning point for me. I think what ended up
happening and part of why I wanted to write this
book for families. My family had no idea what recovery was.
They had no idea what addiction was. They had no
clue how to show up for me, how to help me,
and I think they were really scared because they didn't
have the tools that they needed. They knew I needed treatment,
(06:38):
but for them at that time, they thought treatment was
this thing that I would do, go to this place,
get better, and then I would come home and I
would be cured and it would be fine. What happened
was I did go to this place and I got
better for a time. But what they didn't know, what
I didn't know was I needed a process of recovery
to help me over the long term, and that it
(06:59):
was just this kind of one and done healing experience.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
But it really is.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
A journey, and that it includes so much more than
just stopping substances, and I love to talk today about
how recovery is more than sobriety. It's about learning how
to become someone new. And I think often to that
little girl sitting under the tree who is so scared
and so alone and just wanting to feel okay and
feel okay in her own skin. And there are so
(07:27):
many people like sitting under their trees, wanting a solution,
wanting to feel okay, wanting to learn how to find
that peace and that comfort, And through the recovery journey,
we can do that and we can share that with
other people. I love talking about it. It's hard for
me sometimes to go back to that place and remember
some of those moments, but as I've learned in my
(07:49):
own recovery story, it's important to do that because when
we talk about those parts of our stories too, it
can bring help to people, and we can go through
hard things and things can get better.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
And it's probably a dressing too that it's not shameful
you had experiences and you were shaped by your experiences,
but it's proof that you can come out of them
and you can find a new path at any given moment.
And you did, and you mentioned that healing process for you,
and I imagine it's not a linear journey one and
(08:19):
two that you're also always going to be through that
healing process. It's not just like you mentioned, you don't
go to a treatment center and it's all over. You
might get healed and it might help you in that
moment of time, but this will be something that's part
of you forever. It's not this thing that just Okay,
put a band aid it heals or moving forward? Am
I wrong in that?
Speaker 3 (08:40):
I think you bring up an interesting point.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And I remember early on in my recovery people I'd
say I was in recovery or I was sober, and
people would look at me with almost this pity, Oh
my gosh, I'm so sorry, and feeling bad for me
for like I was missing out on something. And I
think the reality is, and I love to share that
recovery is so much more and it rings us to
a place of being able to live in such a
(09:03):
more full and joyful way.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
And so when we think.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
About sobriety versus recovery or what we learn in this process,
yes it can be seen as like a lifelong thing.
But I like to focus more on the fact that
I get to do this, Like I get to live
my life in a way that is more honest, in
a way that is more connected, in a way that
is more in tune with my faith and just with
(09:29):
my purpose and with sitting here with you having conversations
like this. When people ask me that, and I get
that question a lot, like do you have to do
this forever? I just want to reframe it just a
little bit, so I get to do this, Like I
get to do this, and I'm it's just such a
wonderful way to be, like I wish, And I think
my conclusion's titled recovery for everyone. Recovery can be for everyone,
(09:50):
and I kind of wish everyone could be in recovery.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
But that's just me. I love it so much.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
And so walk me through that feeling, because I think
that is right, Like I even ignorantly can see that
from my point of view, that's the experience that I've seen,
that's what I witness through other people, but I've never
had that personal experience. So walk me through why you
get to do this, what that feeling is like for
you As you are teaching other people, you're sharing your
(10:14):
story and what those experiences are like for you, because
that might help us start to really understand that other
side versus that always belief of thinking, Okay, this is
an entire lifelong journey. Walk me through these feelings and
stuff that you're talking about. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
So I actually start the book with the scene, and
it's a scene that's played out in the lives of
so many people that I've worked with, And I've been
to a lot of recovery meetings in different recovery spaces
where you'll hear people say the same phrase over and over,
which is when someone finds recovery, it's like the light
in their eyes comes back.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
And you might have encountered.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Someone who has been through the process of recovery or
has gone to treatment, and then you haven't seen them
for a while, and they come back and they're almost
like backlit, like the lights in this space, and they're
shining from the inside out. I think that what we
miss when we think about addiction recovery is something that
you're stopping substances, or it's a lack of or you
(11:08):
have to live a certain way that's so restrictive. We're
missing the point that it allows for this openness that
I think connects us as humans and such a true
and just the way that it's supposed to be. There's
a lot of folks that talk about this idea of
fellowship and sharing in recovery circles this honesty.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Where we can lead with being vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
And I always encourage folks if you haven't been in
a recovery meeting or a space, there's a lot of
them that are open where you can just attend as
a family member, but sit in a space like that
and you will experience, amidst probably more pain than you've
ever heard of, or really hard things than you've ever heard,
an incredible amount of joy and laughter and lightness. And
(11:54):
when I think about that, hope folks who are watching
or listening no notice when you meet someone in recovery,
what are they like? Does it look like when you
look in their eyes that they're lacking or missing something?
I was say, one hundred percent of the people that
I've met in recovery a sustained, long term recovery. It
is like this joyful gift that we want to share.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
And it sounds like community, right. You're relating to people
who have had shared experience in some way or form,
or who have experienced this side to all of this
that a whole other group of people don't understand. So
to have a community around something that's really hard, or
at one point was really hard for your life, I imagine,
is really a cool experience, especially today because community is
(12:39):
pretty lost on us, So having a shared community like
that is beneficial for anything.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
I remember the first actual recovery meeting I went to,
and I was probably in my mid twenties, late twenties,
and I walked into the space and the room everyone
around the circle of chairs looked different men, women, different ages,
socio demograph but just all of it was just this
diverse group. And I remember the feeling though, when I
walked in and I sat down, and I finally felt
(13:08):
like I could take a deep breath because I felt
like I was home, Like I felt like I found
my family. And I've heard of people talk about churches
this way, and certainly if I've had experiences there, But
there's something about when you're connected to people that have
that same lived experience, it's like you get each other.
I could be sitting next to someone who has different
life experiences, but they're in addiction recovery. I connect with
(13:30):
them almost immediately because we know each other. The experiences
don't have to be exactly the same, but like they
know what it feels like to be that little girl
under the tree because they have their own version of
that story. And so community is one of the key
pillars that I talk about in my book that is
instrumental to recovery. And so for families especially who are
(13:52):
trying to discern and figure out how do I help
my loved one, maybe they're loved ones coming out of
addiction treatment, one of the first things I write recommend
is make sure your person is connected in that community.
Now it's not on the family to do that for them,
but having community and social support is one of the
key pieces of I think the puzzle in terms of
(14:14):
how we get support. And it's not just addiction recovery, right,
it's any type of grief support, divorced support for fitness, health, wellness.
But yeah, I think it's an amazing part of the journey.
In my late twenties, when I walked into that space,
that was the beginning of my actual sobriety and recovery story,
and I had spent almost a couple decades at that
point struggling with substance use.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
It was the beginning of.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
My finally understanding that I didn't have to do this
by myself anymore, and that feeling that I had been
seeking and searching for my whole life. It wasn't like
in something that I was going to be taking as
a substance.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
It was in the circle.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
It was in the fellowship of people who had that
same lived experience.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
And you were talking about loving somebody with this and
community being a big basis of that. What are some
other things. You're probably gonna have people on both sides
of the spectrum, one that's in recovery and you have
one that's dealing with the person who is in recovery.
So how is the best way to walk through that.
Let's look at it from the outside point of view.
How to because that's what your book is really about,
(15:15):
is loving somebody through their recovery. How do you show
up for them in a way that really matters? Because
they'll have this community, I'm sure they'll have other ways
of working through it. But how can you just a
normal person show up every day for somebody that's going
through this process or have maybe already been through the process.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, I think that's such an important question. When I
was really struggling as a teenager, and like I shared it,
had been through some really hard things. I remember my
family and other people in my life saying and questioning
me like Caroline, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this
to us?
Speaker 1 (15:52):
And I really wish someone would have asked a different question,
which is what happened to you?
Speaker 3 (15:58):
And I wish people would have just sat with me
like this and listened to my store.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
And I think we over complicate support sometimes where we
feel like we have to say the right thing or
do the right thing, when really it's a showing up.
It's a listening and doing so in a compassionate, empathetic way.
And I in my book, I have some practical like
how to's of okay, here's some ideas of how you
(16:24):
can show up, communication, things you can talk about with
your loved one, But the listening is just such an
important part of that. And I think so many families
have been burned and maybe feel really hurt and discouraged
and will this even matter? Showing up and showing love
in those simple ways of sitting and listening or texting.
(16:45):
I even tell families, buy your loved one lunch, go
out for lunch, buy them groceries. My dad did that
for me when I was really struggling, and I'll never
forget it. And it wasn't some like big grand gesture,
but it was showing up and meeting a need that
I have. Yeah, and I think one of the biggest
needs we have is to be understood and to be heard,
and so we can do that for each other and
it will go a really long way in supporting our
(17:07):
loved ones.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
You mentioned the groceries and having things delivered, because one
of the things when it comes to supporting somebody, we
often will ask them, what can I do for you?
How can I show up for you? Or let me
know if I can help you. But I feel like
the best way to truly support people is showing up
without asking. And sometimes you have to force your support
(17:29):
because it's often that we don't want to ask for
help in any scenario. I would especially imagine that it's
this type of recovery where you're not trying to ask
for help, You're not trying to bother people. You just
want to move through and work on your recovery. So
the ways of showing up just by listening and by
buying groceries, I feel like, are really impactful.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
That's it exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
And I think, like I shared, we overcomplicate showing up
and I think sometimes just having that space to listen
can be so impactful.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
But yeah, that moment with my dad.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
We had a really tumultuous, really hard relationship for a
very long time, and I remember I was living in
this run down apartment and hadn't seen him for a
really long time, and I came down the stairs and
walked outside the building and it was like the way
he looked at me, I could just see it in
his eyes. He was so sad and so worried when
(18:25):
he took me out for this meal and then he
took me to the grocery store. And I will never
forget that. And they had to have a lot of
boundaries around how they showed up to support me, but
just that extension of I'm here, I want to meet
what need you have in a way that's safe for me,
and it made me feel loved. And I think one
(18:45):
of the things that family members may forget sometimes is
that through the process of addiction and some of the
traumas we've experienced because of that, or leading up to
why we want to use substances problematically and end up
developing addiction. We carry so much shame. I had so
much shame because of what had been done to me
and what I had done in my act of addiction.
(19:06):
I didn't feel worth help. And it wasn't until I
walked into those rooms of recovery in my twenties where
I'm like, Wow, I'm not alone, and you know what,
maybe I do deserve connection, and maybe I do deserve
help and care, and yeah, it's a beautiful gift that
we can give other people. And I also want to
make the point too that because loved ones often are
(19:27):
burned and hurt and are having a hard time trusting,
you don't have to show up and love your person
and recovery or struggling with addiction alone. I think that's
when we can really lean on our community too, as
affected family members and loved ones to get support.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Sounds like to me that there's also a lot of
steps in this process. So tell me what that was
like for you, because it wasn't just that you were
also recovering from addiction, but you also had things that
happened in your life. You had mentioned right at the
beginning that there's all of these moments in times that
are happening connected, I would imagine, but isolated as well.
(20:02):
So tell me what those experiences were like as you
were healing, because you were not just on this addiction
recovery side. You were healing trauma, you were hearing experiences,
you were going through stuff that was really difficult on
its own.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, And I think that's one of the things that
folks get wrong sometimes and they think that it's just
about the substance use, like you need to stop using
substances and then you'll be okay. But the reality is
most of us end up using substances and get trapped
in addiction because of the trauma that we've experienced. There's
these conditions and things, these challenges that we've faced that
(20:42):
addiction is just the symptom of something greater going on.
And so what I learned over time, and I've worked
with so many people and it is a hard but
amazing experience, is that through the recovery process, you have
these layers that kind of get stripped away. So for me,
it was after actually five years in recovery. It was
five years I was sober until I started digging into
(21:05):
some of the trauma that I had experienced, because while
I had stopped using substances, I still struggled with other things,
relationships with men and food and exercise and some of
these other ways that I tried to feel better to
get that comfort and support. And so I think, what's incredible,
and I talk about recovery pathways in my book is
(21:25):
recovery is not just like you said, it's not linear.
It's not addiction to recovery. It's a journey and it's
a winding one where we find out and discover that
over time, we need different things in different seasons. And
so in five years in recovery, I needed mental health support.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
For my trauma, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
And then seven years in recovery, I needed a lot
of support with learning how to communicate with my now husband.
And fast forward I have seven year old twins, and
so now it's.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
How can I show up and be a mom in recovery?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
How can I write books and be of service and
live out this calling and purpose on my life and
show up for the people in my life.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
So it's I love how in different seasons of recovery,
what we need changes.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, and wow, you the polar opposite, right, you're now
raising You were talking about the very beginning of this podcast,
the young girl sitting underneath a tree, and now you're
about to have your boys. You said they're seven years old.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yeah, boy and a girl.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, boy and a girl. Okay, so twin yes, and
there are two years from hitting the mark. That was
like a big changing point for you. When you think
about that, does that bring a lot of emotions and
experiences that you feel like you're going to have to
work through and understand what that all looks like. Or
you're like, no, at this point, I got this. I
know what's happening.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
I hadn't thought about that them being so close to
that age. We are very open about addiction and recovery
in our family now, and so that's a gift that
I want to give to my kids that it's not
something that is hidden or secretive. I and my husband
recovery is a way of life in our home. My
daughter's so cute. She tells me, Mommy, I want to
(23:00):
in recovery. I'm like, awesome, Hopefully you don't go down
the same road I did.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
To get there.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
But yeah, if you want to be in recovery, that's cool.
But being open about having those conversations because even at
elementary school, they are having kids talking about substance use,
and so I always encourage, especially parents with young kids, teenagers,
even young adults. You cannot shy away from having those
uncomfortable conversations. We talk about drug use, We talk about
(23:25):
substance use. Just the other day, my son told my daughter,
I think you're addicted to those cookies, and I'm like, yep,
but sugar is very much a realizing is very very true.
So just being able to have those conversations is so helpful.
But I hope that they have the tools that I
didn't have, and so I think part of what I
try to do is share that message with other folks
(23:45):
and families. And it doesn't stop with our experience, and
it doesn't stop with our loved ones. We need to
also look at the next generation coming up, because what
the research shows is most people like me who develop
a substance use disorder or addiction start their drug use
or whatever use whatever they're using. And as that like
ten eleven twelve age range and so, yeah, it's so
(24:07):
important to have those conversations.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I think about that. You're like, there's no way, they're
too young. But even in your experience, it all depends
on the environment year around, the things that you're exposed to.
And I think kids are being exposed more earlier to
things than they ever have before, especially with internet and
technology and the things that they can see, even not
(24:30):
just goking on YouTube, which so many of them have
access to. So I do think it's an important conversation
and one that we should be having, unfortunately sooner rather
than later. But were you also experiencing as you first
started talking to your kids about this, where they were like,
what is that? What are we talking about? What are
these things? Because they obviously probably weren't exposed to it yet,
(24:50):
but you do want them to be aware of it
when they do get exposed to it. As somebody who
doesn't have kids, maybe as somebody who has really young
kids and hasn't faced this yet, what was that like?
Get in those moments where you're trying to explain everything
and have them be informed while also educating them on
what a lot of things are.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, I live in our house. The starting point is
an addiction, it's actually a recovery, and so we started
the conversation talking about what recovery is. And so I
actually asked my daughter and son, just gearing up for
the book release, what do you guys think?
Speaker 3 (25:21):
And it was so cute.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
My daughter said, recovery is healthy and then my son said,
it's about giving back and being thankful, and yes, those
are key pieces of the recovery journey. So for them,
their starting point isn't stopping something or staying away from this,
it's where's the starting point?
Speaker 3 (25:37):
How do we want to live?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Because if my kids are grateful, if they're being of
service in their communities, and if they're healthy, if they're
treating their bodies and minds in a healthy way, they're
going to be a lot less likely to be sitting
under that tree looking towards something that's going to be
unhealthy for them in the future. So I don't start
with the whole like Dare. Let's say no, which I
was in the Dare generation. If you all remember, it's
(26:00):
actually won an award I think for an essay that
I did back in elementary school and then fast forward
here I am didn't work for me, but I think
instead of focusing on like the no and what not
to do? What kind of life do we want to live?
And I was speaking to a group of high school students,
this is a couple of years ago, and we were
talking about substance use, and they said, it is.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Rampant in our high school.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
You can't even go in the bathroom in a public
high school without all the vape smoke and the pills
and everything else, and it's just And I asked them,
I said, why do you think it is?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Why are so many.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Kids turning towards substance use? And they all had the
same answer, the same word, and it shocked me. And
it was stress.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Stress.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
So maybe they didn't experience someone like the major traumas
that I had. But kids today, young people are so
stressed and they're looking for ways to cope. So again
that starting point of not let's not do that, but
what can we do to help you cope with being
a human today? So I love to have those conversations too.
I think it's so important. And then of course also
(27:03):
again not shying away from talking about things like we've
already started talking about prescription medication. You shouldn't take a
prescribe medication that wasn't prescribed to you, and just some
of those other things that they're going to be facing
as they get older.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
O A that line that you said of learning to
be a human today, which is really important, right because
our experiences that we had as kids are drastically different
than the experiences that they're having today, and it means
we have to adjust, we have to look differently at
how that's happening. And a lot of what you're talking about, too,
(27:38):
is rewriting that script. Instead of focusing on certain negative things,
it's just let's figure out how you want it this way,
and it's like a Jedi mind trick a little bit,
if you will. Or you're just trying to focus on
how to change that narrative of speak that we're using.
You mentioned that with the don't say no to drug
(28:00):
and all of that, but instead what do you want
your life to look like? Redirecting the energy to things
that are more positive and more focused on you being
able to write that. I think that's a lot of
what we get wrong with so many things is don't
do this, don't do that, You can't have this, be
aware of this. There's no conversation around, well, then, what
(28:21):
should I be doing or what should I be looking.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
At right exactly? Actually reminds me in addiction treatment. When
I was a teen, we had an exercise that we
did and it was impactful. I still remember it I'm
in my forties now, but it was write a list
of on one side of the paper, what you're doing now,
everything you're doing now, all the behaviors, all the things.
And the other side it was where do you want
to be? What do you want your life to look like?
(28:45):
And then we look at both sides of the paper
as those aren't lining up, But how do we get folks, kids,
all of us really to the point of, here's what
we want for our lives. What are we doing now
that's going to get us there? And I think it's
more than like this goal oriented mindset, which I also love,
but it's a recovery oriented one because we're again we're
focusing on those positive, healthy things, ways of being, ways
(29:09):
that we can be a human in a world today
that aren't just healthy for us, but they're healthy for
our families and our communities. And yeah, I love that
what you're sharing about focusing there instead of on what
not to.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Do and flipping to the other side because we talked
about the family side. But I do want to address
because how was it for you? Can you speak to
those people who are potentially on this road and they
don't know it. Maybe they don't know that this is
happening in their life, Maybe they're unaware that they're having
an addiction even at that point, because I think a
(29:40):
lot of what struggles for people to get to the
point of recovery is often that they don't know what's
happening to them, or it takes a catalyst to show
them that it's happening. But I want to speak to
that community too, because I don't know that we do
all that often. So can you talk to them and
what that experience was like for you, because maybe they're
going through and they just can't identify it.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, I think that's such an important question to ask
because there's this like either you're this or you're that,
but some of us live in the middle. And if
someone's trying to figure out, like do I have a
problem with substances? Could this be spiraling out of control?
I think the first thing I would say that if
you're asking that question, be mindful of that that you're
(30:22):
to the point of asking yourself that question and then
focus on again, where do you want to be? So
I've worked with a lot of mothers who are like,
it's the whole, like mommy wine o'clock thing, right five o'clock.
And I think society has kind of normalized some of
that behavior and almost kind of made fun of it
and made light of it when it can be very
harmful for women. But if you're finding yourself like preoccupied
(30:46):
thinking a lot about drawing these boundaries, I'll only do
this on the weekend, and then you cross that line.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
There's some of.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
These key indicators that there could be more going on.
And actually, for my day job, my husband jokes I
have so many hats that I wear, but one of
my hats I work for recovery dot com and so
it's a website that helps people connect with treatment, either
their mental health or addiction treatment. We actually have quizzes
on there, so you can go and take a quiz, hey,
the alcohol quiz or alcohol tests, and it guides you
(31:13):
through some questions like do I have a problem with this?
So I would suggest if you're asking that question, pay
attention to it. Pay attention to maybe some of the
things that you could be doing or thinking, and then.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Reach out for support. Because there are a lot of
options available for and you.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Say reach out for support, I have to imagine that's
not an easy thing to do. So what if you're
struggling with that of reaching out starting to make that change?
Because change is also really hard. We love to be comfortable,
We love to believe that what we're doing is totally fine,
it's okay, it'll work itself out. But making that step,
(31:51):
that very first step that really matters, that's going to
change the trajectory of everything. Talk to that experience, because
I know that's one that people will definitely have questions about.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yeah, change is hard. Change is so hard. If you've
tried to change anything, maybe it's a diet or yeah,
stopping drinking alcohol or whatever type of change. It can
be comfortable to be in the same spot and just
keep doing what we're doing, and not only that, like
our brains, the whole neuroscience behind habit and behavior can
become just this like pattern that we continue, and it's
(32:22):
really hard to break from that cycle. I think the hopeful,
though and encouraging thing is we can and with addiction, recovery,
substance use. It used to be like when I started
my journey, it used to be this very stigmatized, like
you know, oh, you have a problem with substances like this,
almost like this is like leprosy, almost like oh my gosh,
(32:43):
that's so different.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
I'm definitely not like that person.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Whereas today, because of like social media and people talking
about recovery and very open about either being in recovery
or alcohol free, there's this whole alcohol free movement that
it's normalized. It's becoming more normalized. So I would just
encourage folks if you're feeling scared to reach out. It
is not an unusual experience today. It's actually a really
(33:08):
common one. In the US alone, there's like almost twenty
four million people in recovery. It's just like a wild number.
It is a very common thing. And and I have
a love hate relationship with social media. But the good
thing is about social media for people in recovery is
so many of us talk openly about it. So you
just do the little old school hashtag thing or look
(33:29):
at some people talking about recovery. It's like, wow, it's amazing.
And not just that, but there are people who are
openly talking about their challenges too and their struggles.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
We don't need to feel alone in our experience.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
That's where I would suggest if you're feeling scared to
reach out, you're not alone. So many people are in
that place. And then maybe go back to that assignment
that I had in treatment, which was what are you
doing now? What's your life look like now? Where do
you want it to be? And are those things lining up?
If they're not, you have options. There's things that you
can do.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
To change that.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Yeah, that's really good for that whole process, and you
mention it to it. There's a love hate relationship with
social media for sure, but you see it more often
now and it's normalizing it, which I think is the
behavior that we need when it comes to conversations like this.
A lot of conversations we have on this podcast, the
whole purpose is to normalize them and having the conversation
versus not And it brought up something that I wanted
(34:23):
to ask about because I also imagine with that many
people struggling, you have so many people out in the
dating world and dating partners.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
What was your.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Experience like with dating as you'd gone through this because
I imagine that also brings challenges.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
It was.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
That's a whole nother podcast episode. There's a lot to
unpack there, and I'll just it was challenging at first,
I think for a lot of different reasons, because I
needed to find out who I was. I needed to
find out who I was sober in recovery, and I
also needed to heal.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
From a lot of what I'd experienced. So I needed
to feel at home in my.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Body and myself where I was able to be in
a relationship with someone else. I had a mentor early
on who told me I was kind of obsessing about
I want this kind of person and I'm in recovery,
so you know, this is what I want for my life.
And she said, are you at the point where you
can be that person for someone else? Are you that
person that checks all those boxes? And that was a
moment for me like, oh, I need to do some
(35:20):
more work. So did I have some questionable dating experiences
in early recovery? One hundred percent yes, and I wish
I could turn back time and change those I think
we recommend people don't date until at least a year
in recovery. If you were having some challenges and things
like that. I just rebelled against that, but I ended
up finding an incredible partner and have just had not
(35:41):
always easy, but this amazing experience of being in a
relationship and a loving relationship, healthy one. He's not in recovery,
which some people are like, oh really, which I love
because I bring my experience and then he brings his.
But he's been so willing to learn and listen. And
part of what I wanted to write the book was
to have the guy that my husband wish he had
(36:05):
when we met, that my family, my parents wish they
had when I was struggling.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
And yeah, he's so funny. My husband.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
When the book came out, all the Amazon reviews are
coming in and I looked and I'm like, Caroline, my
name was on there. I'm like, honey, and then you
put I'm Caroline's husband, and I think this about the book.
I'm like, you got to change the name, but anyway
from your pay for my Amazon account. But it was
so sweet because he's I think something like, my family
has lived this, We've lived this journey, and relationships are
(36:33):
hard no matter what when you're in recovery. I think
you need to be at home in yourself and learn
who you are first. And maybe that's advice for everyone,
not even in recovery. But yeah, and then I think
the other thing that was so helpful for me was
bringing other people, specifically women who had walked the road,
who were a bit older, who could help guide me
through through that, who could speak that truth and girl
(36:57):
like you better slow down. Yeah, I wouldn't date that
guy and that meeting, but who could provide some counsel
and wisdom. Definitely, folks listening who may be thinking about
a relationship and recovery, have some discernment, and I think
bring some people around you that can help you with them.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
And you mentioned being there for other people. I'd love
to know about this. And are they called sponsors still?
Is that still a thing.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Yeah, So for some recovery pathways, there's twelve step, there's sponsors,
there's a whole it's like a whole menu now of
like sponsors, recovery coaches, peer support specialists, mentors. It depends
what recovery pathway. I love to say mentor because it
adds all of those different ones together. But yeah, I
think throughout different pathways, the key part is someone who
(37:38):
has been there, who has been there first, lived through it,
and can now look back and speak truth and speak
in a way that provides like wisdom for you and
direction for you. It's one of the things I wish
everyone again, everyone could be in recovery, because living with
that type of support is just incredible. If I'm struggling
(37:59):
and this happens even today, I will call a woman
who has forty almost forty years in recovery and tell
her like, hey, this is what's going on, and she'll
tell me, she'll share her experience and she'll listen to me,
and there's nothing like it.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
There's nothing like it.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
I love hearing those because that's another back to the community.
But that's an extension of that community. And you see
stuff in TV shows and stuff, and I wanted to
make sure we're sharing the true side of it, not
just the depicted side in entertainment. But I think those
support systems, it's something that I think mentorship in general
is just such a huge asset to anybody, but especially
(38:35):
of somebody who again can create that lived experience for
you and really help you navigate through it is invaluable.
So those are cool, and it's cool to hear that
you had those and you still have those.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah, And I think anyone who's walking like a long
term sustand recovery, it's a key piece of it. I
actually started a nonprofit called the Women's Recovery Leadership Foundation.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
And that's exactly what it does.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
It pairs younger women with women who've been there and
can walk alongside them and help support, empower equip them,
not just professionally but personally too.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
You really are wearing a lot of hats.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
I am. Yes, indeed I am.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
He's coming on, but it's all under this same umbrella.
Really just trying to expand this community and help in
the ways that it helped you, which I think is
really cool.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
And going back to what my counselor told me in
treatment as a teen, of those six words, your life
has purpose and value, I needed to hear that. I
didn't know it. I didn't believe it. I didn't think
I would live to be thirty. I didn't think my
life mattered. I had so much shame and I just
had such low self worth about who I was. I
remember I used to walk around like with my hoodie
up looking at the ground. I couldn't even make eye
(39:41):
contact to people in the grocery store. I've had such
a low feeling about myself, yet those words that were
spoken to me just it was like a seed was
planted in my heart. And today I want everyone to know,
especially women and families, but people struggling in an addiction
and also in recovery, that your life has value and
(40:02):
purpose And it's incredible what can come from that pain,
what can be redeemed through the hard parts of our story,
and recovery is just like a light that is a
light along that path that kind of illuminates that road
for us. Yeah, I want everybody to be backlit and
just bright eyes shining in recovery.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
And I'm thinking now too. You just said that you
didn't think you would live till thirty at one point
in your life. But now you're married, you have two kids,
you got a book, you're created nonprofits, You've done all
of these things. Like if you could tell that young
nine year old something, what would you tell her, if
you had the chance to go back to her and
(40:42):
give her a little bit of insight, what would be
that thing that you would say that would matter to her.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Yeah, I want to add to that list. I drive
a minivan too. We love that would happen, but I
would just.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Pull her close and give her the biggest hug and
tell her that her life had value and purpose, and
I would walk alongside her.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
I think a lot of people need to hear that today,
that their life has meaning and it has purpose, it
has value. We are truly in a lonely epidemic across
massive amounts, which is also resulting in a lot of
things of addiction and substance abuse and everything across the board.
The gosh six words, you never knew they could have
so much meaning. But it's cool to see where you're
(41:21):
at now and walk through the entire journey with you.
And I appreciate you sharing it because, like you said,
I know it's still hard. It doesn't even though it's gone,
doesn't mean walking through those moments again doesn't bring back
certain things. So I appreciate you sharing that. I like
to end the podcast not that this whole podcast has
not been a piece of advice or motivation, but maybe
something that's heavy on your heart. It can be inspiration
(41:43):
or motivation or just something you want to mention that
we didn't get to. I give the floor over to
you and you end us on something.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Yeah, I would say, well, this has just been heavy
on my heart. If there's someone listening or watching who
feels like the weight of their loved ones struggle with
addiction or even into early recovery is too much to bear,
that they don't have to carry that weight alone. And
I think a lot of families feel this burden and
(42:10):
these questions. Am I enabling? Should I show tough love?
Am I doing the right thing?
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Am I helping? Am I harming?
Speaker 1 (42:16):
And I think families and loved ones need to just
have this invitation to set.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
That weight down. You don't have to carry your struggle alone.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Like I shared, addiction recovery impacts almost everyone, if not everyone,
in some way, whether it's your spouse or your neighbor,
or your child, or your pastor we all know someone,
and so you don't have to carry it alone. You
can reach out for support. And I just want to
end with a story. So there was a woman I
interviewed for my book, and she told me about a
(42:47):
small group she had at her church. And while she
was going to this small group, her friend's daughter was
in cancer treatment and her daughter, who was in cancer
treatment this friend had all of the help. She had
prayer chains and meal chains, we love to bring our
cast roles, and she had all of this support. And
she said, during that same period of time, my son
was an addiction treatment and I didn't have any phone calls,
(43:10):
any texts, any prayer chains, any flowers, any cast roles,
she said, but my son was sick too and I
needed support too. And I like to tell that story
and be reminded of that because I think it shows
something important, which is it shouldn't all fall on the
family member or the person impacted by addiction or recovery.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
The community other.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
People need to step up and love, need to step
up and step in and love that family member when
it's hard for the other person to do. We need
to pray and to send those flowers and to bring
those cast roles, and to show up in those simple
loving ways, because addiction is when it boil it all down.
It's a human struggle, just like any other hard thing
(43:54):
that's human, right, and so we need to show up
for each other.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Mm hmm, Yes we do. That's a really good message,
and I'm glad you shared that because it is we
often it's with most things in life. We love to
highlight certain things and downplay others, and it's a perfect
example of it. So hopefully we can stop doing that.
Hopefully that's the momentum forward to just at least be
a little bit more curious, ask more questions. We also
(44:17):
never know the struggles that people face in their everyday life,
and that's often where we get caught up in. It's
easy to see a lot of the really bad if
people's posting it on social media, but a lot of
struggles come internally and we don't discuss them, so will
silently struggle. And I hate that. So I appreciate you
being here to share and talk about everything. So thank
you so much.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Thank you. I've really just enjoyed talking with you, and
thank you for highlighting this issue. It's so important.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
If you'd like to check out Caroline's book, I'll link
it in the show notes. And I just want to
share a special shout out to all of those in
recovery and those walking with your loved ones in recovery.
You're doing great and we see you. Subscribe so you
don't miss Darlene's story next week wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm so happy that you're here, each end, every one
of you.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Bye.
Hosts And Creators
Bobby Bones
Amy Brown
Lunchbox
Eddie Garcia
Morgan Huelsman
Raymundo
Mike D
Abby Anderson
Scuba Steve
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