February 24, 2026 • 50 mins
Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci open with Arte Moreno saying winning isn't in the top 5 of the needs of the Angels. Joe explains what he believes the owner meant in the statement for the fans of the LA Angels. Hall of Famer Bill Mazeroski passed away and Tom asks where Maz's home run in the 1960 World Series ranks amongst all-time hits. Plus, will a coming rule change cause a safety issue for coaches?
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey Daron, Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
It's the Book of Joe Podcasts with Me, Tom Berducci,
and of course Joe Madden. Joe, how's it going down
there in Florida these days? I'm assuming you haven't shoveled
two feet of snow.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
It's freezing. Had to wear a coat last night when
I went out. Yeah, it's unusually cool for right now.
I know you guys are going through a lot worse.
I looking at my cameras up there and sugar Loaf.
My god, the snow was almost gone on the golf
course now all the way back. It's really it's just
you know, I'm sure a lot of you guys are
(00:49):
talking about reminds you of when you were a kid,
the snow banks after the plows came by King of
the Hill, all the kind of good stuff we used
to play. So I have nothing to complain about. Everything
goes well here. That's supposed to warn back up tomorrow,
be able to play by Wednesday.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Game about Yeah, I'll be you called it, Joe.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
It was an old school dump like the kind of
stuff where you say, you know, when I was a kid. Well,
now these kids get to experience a honest to goodness
blizzard and it looks beautiful right now. Actually, at speaking
of old school, I want to talk about one of
your old teams, the Los Angeles Angels.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
They're in the news job.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I'm not sure if you caught this Arti Moreno. Typically,
you know he's only going to speak about once a
year in spring training, he'll make some rounds talk with reporters,
and he really caught people's attention from his comments at
Angels camp.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
The headline quote, I'm not sure if you saw it, Joe.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
He was asked about Angel fans and he said winning
is not the number one priority for Angels fans. To
quote Artie Moreno, the number one thing fans want is affordability.
They want affordability, they want safety, They want a good
experience when they come to the ballpark. Believe it or not,
winning is not in their top five. The moms want
(02:07):
to be able to afford to bring the kids. Moms
make about eighty percent of the decisions. They want to
be able to bring their kids and be affordable, and
they want safety, and you want to have a good experience,
so they get all the.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Attainment, entertainment stuff or whatever.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Interesting to me, Joe that he made these quotes because
you and I we know Ardi Moreno, and that's a
really important mission for him, is to make tickets affordable.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
They love having families come out to the ballpark.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I don't want to say he misspoke, Joe, but I
think he misled people into what's important running a major
league franchise. The guiding force is obviously winning. And you
look at the Angels. They had a seventeen year stretch
where they attracted three million people or more and they
were one of the guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Big draws in baseball and they have.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Not gotten to two point seven million in the last
four straight years. And why well, they've had ten straight
losing seasons. So I think I know what Arty is
driving at. You know what drives him to put a
product on the field and have people come to the ballpark.
And if you do pull people who come to the ballpark,
(03:15):
they will tell you things like affordability and safety are
super important. They're already there. But I think that the
problem here is to get people to the ballpark. Yeah,
winning has to be the priority, Joe.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
You know, LARTI obviously the angels, dear to your heart.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I thought some of this was blown out of proportion,
but some of it really did resonate with where the resident,
where the angels are right now?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, I think I agreed that part of it was
blown out of proportion. It's just a matter of when
you do want to say something publicly like that, you
got to be more inclusive regarding all of your thoughts.
Because I've been around already enough to know that he
doesn't like to lose. I know that I've been part
of those meetings. So it's kind of a misstatement in
a ways. I think if you had just dixcrapolate it
(04:03):
all the way out beyond that those five points, I
think it could have gone by a little bit easier.
Just like a baseball team I've talked about this year
and I have. I want it all, you know. I
want pitching, I want power, I want contact, I want defense,
I want speed.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
I want all of that.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
And so I think if you're an owner of a team,
you want all of that too, right. You want the affordability,
you want a wonderful place for fans to go into
ten games. You want tradition, which I you know, that's
the one thing I used to really play up with there.
I tried to play up when I was out there,
to really get into our tradition of the Angels, because
I was you know, started in seventy six, believe it
(04:43):
or not, seventy five, they weren't that old, and there
was already a lot of base a strong base had
been built, a foundation, some really good players had come
to that organization, and eventually we get into the eighties
and I was a part of that in the nineties,
and then of course we won our first World Series
in two thousand and two. So there's a lot there
(05:03):
to promote, and it is it's been disappointing, you know,
I really I went there with the intent of I
really wanted to be part of the quote unquote rebuild,
getting us back to prominence. I thought we were on
our way to do that and just do not have
an opportunity to finish it off. So there is the
fans out there, listen, that's really good baseball country. Again
(05:27):
we've spoken about. I love southern California high school and
collegiate and junior college baseball. I think they've had dynamic
coaching out there. I think they've just like Orange County
is kind of a bashing of conservativism. There's a real
conservative bent on baseball out there, which I like, you
play the game right, you play the game fundamentally correct.
Coaches were tough. They're almost like football coaches. You've made
(05:48):
a mistake, you were called out on it. There's so
much good going on out there, and I think, you know, yeah,
the fans have options out there that could go to
the beach, go to an art festival, go to a
flea market on a weekend or any particular day the
weather's so good, So there's a lot of options to consider.
As a paying customer. What do I spend my dollars?
What do I vote my dollars?
Speaker 4 (06:10):
So I get all.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Of that, But for me, the angel should be I
don't know, in playoff consideration annually this is it's been
way too long. The like I said, the alumni there,
there's some tough guys out there, man, I play with
a lot of tough guys and I coached didn't manage
a lot of them, and very prideful people.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
So it doesn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
The trend that's been going on regarding the inability to
play up to Angel standards as I saw them, and
that's the part that's disappointing. So yes, I already should
have extrapolated out a little bit farther exactly what he meant.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
I do believe he wants to win.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
I do believe he likes winning because I've been there,
and I do believe that the fans of Southern California
and Angel fan base is a strong one, loyal one,
believe me. And it really began in two thousand and
two when we won the World Series. That's why I
saw drem shift. I mean because I was there again
for a period of time. We did good and pretty
good in the nineties, eighties, rope for pretty good early eighties,
(07:11):
but two thousand and two shifted everything. That was the
paradigm shift. That's where everybody became an Angels fan. You know,
x Stine and the X Factor and all the thundersticks
and everything's just started catching on. The little things that
are Bodley Monkey. I could keep going on and on.
So it's there, it's waiting to happen. It wants to happen.
Those fans just don't only want affordable ballpark to attend,
(07:33):
but they also want the Angels to win.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, they do have great fans, There's no question about it.
It's a great place to watch a game. It's a
good vibe in the ballpark. A lot of things going
for the Angels. They're just been and they have been
obviously an underachieving franchise. A couple of the things I
think they need, Joe. They've got to update their spring
training facility. I know they've been looking into that. They're
behind the curve when it comes to just it's probably
(07:57):
true at the main ballpark too. Just some of the
features and the edges that teams can get in terms
of what available to the players from a training standpoint.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Stability, I mean this team has locked stability.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I mean since Joe, since you left, Joe, They've gone
through four managers, four straight seasons, losing eighty nine or
more games. They've gone through general managers. They've got Kurt
Zuzuki as the manager this year on a one year contract.
It's just been a lot of turnover without stability. Look
at any great franchise you want to extend windows, you
need some stability. It hasn't happened there. They definitely have
(08:34):
room to increase the payroll. Listen, they're probably at about
one hundred and eighty one million dollars this year. That's
down from about two h six last year. It's still
enough to be competitive, don't get me wrong. But traditionally
Artie Moreno has stayed beneath that first luxury tax threshold.
I think he did go over at once and it
was almost really an accounting era. They barely got over it.
(08:58):
So there's room to grow. But what they have right now,
Joe I would say to me, especially in a very
tough division, I don't see them as a contender. So
I think you have to spend smartly when it comes
to when you're ready, where you are in that winning
curve defines everything in terms of the spending money in
(09:18):
the here and now, and I think they're not quite
there yet.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
How do they get there again?
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I get back to facilities, they get back to stability,
but it isn't attractive play and like the Dodgers up
the road, it should be a destination place, right, it
should be a place where players want to go play.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
The infrastructure is substandard. There's no question.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Spring training for years they were the major league team
was upstairs in a really deficient facility.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
These have to raise a tent up there for weight
room every year, and.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Batting tunnels, et cetera, and just a substandard clubhouse. And
the minor league team was the minor league situation was
down below in the clover leaf with much better facilities.
Eventually that was rectified and it was shifted. Regardless that
still that facility down below could use a little bit
of an upgrade.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
The major league.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Facility itself, I love Anaheim Stadium, but I'm telling you
what it's just, it's slowly deteriorated to the point where
it is it's just one of the least most the
least impressive out of all the major league ballparks when
you walk into it. There's been there's been a lack
of vision regarding building up the infrastructure there, no question.
(10:28):
And on the minor league side, I mean the spring
training side too, So it starts right there.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
I mean, you go to the Cubs.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
And my god, it's like an NFL facility right there,
and and others that you go to the Rockies and
the Diamondbacks, my god, you walk on that campus and
it's like leaps and bells you can jargue with though
the Rockies really haven't taken advantage of that either. But
the infrastructure is not the greatest and just becoming down
to the product even my last moments there. For me,
(10:56):
they missed an opportunity man to turn show Hey into something,
and I think even Mike trot into something because when
show Hey is not coming back, which is pretty obvious,
I really thought they should have traded.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
Him at the end of that.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
I know it's hard to be the guy that traded
Showio Tani, but they probably would have been reaping some
kind of reward since then. And I also thought one
show He left, they should have traded Trotty because at
that point it was really hard for Mike to be
the pillar to rebuild that whole situation on. And you know,
you talk about the old days with herschel Walker trades,
and you know all the guys that came back in
(11:29):
on a hall like that. Potentially it doesn't always work,
but at least would have given them an opportunity to
restock the cupboards a little bit. So there's a lot
of things that the infrastructure was not good. I thought
they missed out on the opportunity with Shohey, and then
trouty to really possibly kickstart. And I know they don't
like to word out their rebuildings either, do I man,
I'm not even though I've been part of rebuilds, whether
(11:52):
it was the Angels and then eventually the Rays and
then the Cubs, that the Angels just don't like that stuff.
But there was a perfect opportunity I thought to really
kickstart that way. That wouldn't have cost him anything other
than some bad publicity that they could have overcome very easily. So, yes,
infrastructure below standard, and I thought they missed out on
(12:13):
the opportunity to reap some benefits from show Hey leaving
and try out potential leaving.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I understand the show Hey situation there at that trade deadline,
you probably knew if your ardy Moreno, maybe you didn't
know where the contractor was going numbers wise, but you
probably knew you weren't going to keep him, even though
I think show Hey really did have a preference to
stay there in a perfect world. But at the time
I got to admit Joe first guess was I thought
(12:40):
they did the right thing hanging out to him.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Remember, they were only a few games out of a
wildcard situation, and you know.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
We bang a lot of these teams for not trying
to win, and you had a team that has been
desperate to get into the postseason and it was within
arms reach at that point at the trade deadline. Now
it went downhill quickly after that, and on hindsight, you say, well,
they should have moved him.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
But when a team is so hungry for a.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Playoffs spot and there's an opportunity there, it wasn't a
great one, but it was they were in the mix,
they were looking at making a run for a playoff spot.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I was okay with them hanging on to show.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Hey, I actually said it at the time, though you know,
I had no skin in the game because I was
gone by then.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
But I really, I really thought that would have been
the wise things to do.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
And again I just I guess maybe having too much
inside information regarding being in the building and knowing what
it felt like overarching overall and you know what occurred
even after I left, I just thought it would have
been the right thing to do, that's all. And again,
I'm not trying. This is not a padding on the back.
I'm not attacking anybody. I just thought at that moment, again,
(13:48):
the infrastructure needs to be addressed. Not bright shiny objects,
but really non sexy stuff has to be addressed. And
number two, I thought there was a perfect opportunity to
restock that place because again it's just and I'm not
gonna this is not here, this is not any kind
of a critique or critical and just telling you being
inside the building and filling what everything felt like at
(14:08):
that moment.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
I just thought it was the right thing to do.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
And finally, Joe, let's look ahead to the twenty sixth
season for the Angels. You know, as they've done the
last few years, they're taking a lot of flyers on people,
especially with the pitching staff, Guys trying to make their
way back from injuries. Alec Manoa, Grayson Rodriguez, Robert Stevenson,
Kirby Yates, guys like Hunter Strickland coming back. There's a
lot of flyers are taking on pitchers trying to come back.
(14:33):
I like the idea Kurtzuzuki great guy that a Catcher's
been around a lot of great managers.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
You just never know what first time managers.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
You're always hoping you have the next steven Vote, and
maybe Kurtzuzuki is that guy. I don't like the idea
of any manager on a one year deal, but that's
the reality right now. Can this team compete, which in
these days means can you play five hundred ball for
four months and actually hang around wildcard race?
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I like Kurt I was around him for a bit there.
He's got an ingratiating way about him. He communica well.
He's definitely would be into cooperation and trying to take
whatever the vision is upstairs and promoting it downstairs.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
I see him doing all of that.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
You know, of course, as a as a manager of
game strategy, I really can't speak to that, but I
know as a communicator within he's an easy conversation So
I think from that perspective he should do a really
good job. Again with all the fellows that you just mentioned,
nice players, man, nice players.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
But the overarching for me is like what is the culture?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
And you know, people don't like to hear that word,
but that was really what I was attempting to do
there culturally, you know, creating this situation, this method that's
able to replicate itself on an annual basis, and then
you start getting a certain vibe within your clubhouse that
attracts and guys buy into and know what to expect,
(15:58):
and then when you get new guys in, they absorb
them quickly and tell them this is how we do
things or this is not how we do things here.
That's the part of the non sexy component of all
this that's important. It's not just about bringing you know,
different folks in. It's got to be with the specific
thought in mind and a method of operation that I
don't think has been fully formulated. And I think a
(16:20):
lot of people mock because they really don't understand, you know,
what it is or how to do it. So I think,
you know, if Kirk can really somehow get an opportunity
there for the next couple of years and just really
he's come from from some great spots and including cal
State Fullerton, so he knows what it's all about, how
to create a culture and the method of play, and
I think that's.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
What they need. That was my goal was to.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Bring back that gritty method of Angel baseball that I
saw in two thousand and two and before that, really
dynamic pitching, solid defense, and again, for lack of a
better term, tough guys. I mean there was a time
that we fought the Texas Rangers during batting practice one night,
I've hit funos there in the night before, Adam Kennedy
had a tough time with what's name Lard the catcher
(17:06):
in a ball and strich situation, and I knew, I
know afk Adam really well. And the next day we're
taking VP and I'm Adam standing in front of me
and he's practicing in swings and as he's practicing, he's
looking behind where Texas was just stretching, and he happened
to lock eyes with Laird, and here we go. All
of a sudden, he's running after Laird and it was
a good old fashioned brawl during batting practice.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Sorry, folks, but I really dig on that stuff. I
think it matters. I think it makes a difference.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
I'm watching like old videos of different altercations during time
in MLB and Will becoming a little bit too cozy
with one another, and it's again, I love the Angels dynamic.
And I could start naming guys all the way back
to when I first began going to Big league camps
in eighty one, when you had the sense he's at third,
(17:55):
you had Burlson at short stuff, you had Ritchie had
Rodney you had Boonie, you had Reggie, you had Winfield.
You had all these dudes different and there's nothing wrong
with that, man, just you know, creating this culture and
this method of operation that I think that's the first
should be the first order of business there.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, listening to that story about angels in Texas reminds
me of your I think I might still be in
the Devil Rays taking on the New York Yankees in
spring training and setting a tone there with a bench
clearing brawl. Hey, listen, Joe, and I want to give
you a quiz coming up in our next segment. Here
you noticed, I'm sure that Bill Mazerowski, the Hall of
(18:34):
Fame second baseman died, hit probably the most famous home
run in baseball history. But you know what, it's not
even in the top five of the most clutch hits
of all time. I wanted to give you a quiz, Joe,
on the top hits of all time, and we'll see
what you can come up with.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I know you were there for at least one of those.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
We talk about that right after this on the Book
of Joe.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. Yeah, it's kind
of crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Joe the Mazarowski home run nineteen sixty. First of all,
I love that because it's so baseball, right. He was
hitting eighth in the lineup that day against the Mighty Yankees.
And I always say this, You know, you can't call
time out and design a play to put the ball
in your best player's hands. You don't have the quarterbacks
starting to play every time a year at this, this
(19:32):
wheel of fortune, the batting lineup and where it comes
around at the particular time. Leading off the bottom of
the ninth inning, tie game Game seven, it's number eight,
light hitting Bill Mazerowski hits a home run, and you
know it's not the most clutch hit of all time
if you can believe that, or not as crazy as
that sounds, right, Yeah, in Game seven of the World Series,
(19:53):
will walk off Homer. What's bigger, Well, it turns out
it's number eight according to win Championship probability added.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
So it's a little bit of an algorithm, Joe.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
But basically it takes into account all the factors of
the game. You know, score, how many outs, what inning
it was, you know, what game of a series it was.
You actually were at one of these, Joe, in the
top eight of all time. You want to venture a
guess as to what hit you witness that is in
(20:24):
the top eight of the most clutch hits in the
postseason postseason?
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Okay, because the long Goore's home rund doesn't count, then right, Okay?
Speaker 4 (20:33):
I would say, what's his face? Davis with the Indians?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Oh, you are so good? Yes, what's his face? Rajer Davis?
That is number six all time on our list, not
my list, but this is again going by win probability
added to win a championship. What's interesting is that Game
seven of last year's World Series, Joe has three of
(20:59):
the top twelve plays of all time in the postseason.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
You want to take a guess on what those three were.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I mean, it's first of all, there's no other game
that has more than two, and there's three of the
top twelve in one game.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
That's how exciting that game was.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
The home run the shortstop Mige Rojas Rojas Ross. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Again, here's a guy bat ninth a utility guy. Dave
Roberts put him in the lineup for Game six because
he said, I can't lose the World Series without using
one of my glue guys. Yes, it turns out one
of his glue. Guys hit the tying home run in
the bottom of the ninth. That's actually number twelve on
the list. Miguel Rojas's home run.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I always get. I can always screw up his I
like that guy. I think he's a very good player.
Oh he's way under He's a winning player, absolutely way underrated.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
So there's two others in that in.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
That series or that game, same game. Two others.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Wow, you know what? Uh okay, But it had to
be a hit. It had to be something positive not negative.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Well, there's actually one of both.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Actually, the one hit was the one that actually decided
the game, the winning run scored on it. People forget
because we all remember Miguel it was so stunning, But
the guy who put the Dodgers ahead was.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Shoot.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I forgot, easy to forget. Just quiet goes about his business.
Will Smith hit the home run.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
That's why he was very he's very good man.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
I can't even go back to Bobby Thompson or Chris
Chambliss for all these Kirk, but I mean, you're you're
I can't even remember last postseason.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
What you had for breakfast?
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
And actually number four on the list and the most
impactful play in that game seven last year. No, that's
a good guess though, game ending double play, Kirk.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I mean it's first and third, one out.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
That's the number four most important play in postseason history.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
And I said it then, Joe, and I'll say it again.
You have to start the rudder there at first base.
Ground ball pitcher, ground ball hitter. You know they're not
throwing down the second base. Dave Roberts told me that
Addison Barger is plus runner at first base. You got
to take that double play out of order, didn't happen
and got the ground ball.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Well, we had a slow runner ground ball picture, you know,
easy to assume the ground ball is gonna be put
on the ground. That's when you definitely start runners. I
mean that's I had stabbed that analytical sheet. I think
that we had it when it was with the Cubs.
We developed there could have been the race, but I'm
not sure. But the sheet actually would predict probability of
ground balls versus that picture and that hitter combined, so
(23:32):
I would have like a high number or a low
number the ball near a ball and ground It really
was helpful when the starter runner sent a full count
if there was any kind of ambivalence at all. If
there was a high high chance of probability or a
probability of a ground ball hit by this hitter and
the pitcher did throw ground balls, I'm starting this guy
one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
I'm going to start in this guy.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
And then on the other side, if it's a swing
and miss kind of a pitcher, swing and miss kind
of a hitter and the ball is going to be
in the air, I might not start this guy. I
really loved that chart, and I really tried to get
the Angels to developed that when I was there, but
they were uncomfortable with it. That's part about analytics that
people don't really understand that. Let every analytical department is
created equally, so you're always looking for those little edge
(24:11):
things right there. I agree with you, you're.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Not throwing through right there.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
One of my things in spring training is like the
point of the game, the emphasis of the game when
it goes to that first and third play, and that
directs our priority. It's always a priority base play. So
if the runner at third is a priority and we
can you cannot afford to let that man score, then
we were probably not going to throw and start this
confusing play going from home the second back to home.
(24:36):
So yes, you would probably that'd be part of the equation. Also,
all those things for me are considered in regards to
whether the start the runner or not.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
And I think you're right on with that.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
And also there's no way I'm having the second basement
move to cover second base to open up a whole
correct when the other party, the World Series tying run
is a third base as you well put it, that's
the priority. So now going to go countdown style, Joe,
the top eight of all time. I mentioned Bill Malziowski
at number eight, number seven, Where were you for this one?
(25:06):
Francisco Cabrera, Oh, two run single, Game seven, nineteen ninety
two NLCS. That's the famous play where I love the
way and Evince like told this story. He was in
center field and he mentioned to Barry Bonds to move
in closer with the game winning run on second base
and left field. Bonds looked at him and gave him
(25:27):
the finger. Didn't move, I said, ring barely made it
home from second base.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I remember that very well. There was two outs of
nobody on. Wasn't there before that? Ever, that situation occurred
or was it. It might be right, and I might have been,
and then he got in the right and there's no
pinch running for a really really I mean glacially slow runner,
And I listened. I scouted bonds when he was at
Arizona State. Never really had the strongest arm. I think
it improved as he got to the Major League baseball
(25:54):
professional baseball. But I mean for him to score on
that base, it was hit pretty hard too, if I
remember correctly, and it was right at him, but he
might have been deep, but it was kind of like
a good angle throw. But yeah, I do remember that
really really well, sliding just beating it. And then one
more of point, Like you talked about not covering on
that plate with the with the Cubs, I don't know
(26:15):
how many years in a row when Molino was there.
Obviously was there the whole time YADI eight. We weren't covering.
We weren't covering anytime a runner started with him hit it,
we weren't covering.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Wasn't going to cover.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
I thought he was that good at handling the bat
that if you saw a didn't field a break, he
would hit the ball in that particular direction. So I
don't care what time of the game was we were
not going to cover with they Aaudia and Molina hitting
with the runner at first movie.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Wow, that's respect right there.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Working down the list, number six was the Roger I
what's his face?
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Davis home run. Number five.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
We mentioned this Will Smith the home run to win
Game seven in twenty twenty five. Number four was the
Alejandro Kirk ground ball double play number three. It's from
two thousand and one Game seven World Series and you're thinking, well,
it must be Luis Gonzales, right bloop game winning hit walker.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
No, it's actually Tony Womack's double Oh I remember that.
You remember that one.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
They're down two to one, there's one out, there's runners
on first and second, and Tony Womack doubles down the
line off Mariano Rivera that ties the game and puts
runners on second third.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
That set everything in motion.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
So that's actually the hit as terms of changing the
outcome of the game in Game seven two thousand and one.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Tony Womack quietly really good player, really good player. I
remember exactly how long his career was, but I had
a lot of respect for him.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
He played it right.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Mind me have Tony Phillips a little bit, but he
he really was a good baseball player, and yeah, I
could see him.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
Coming through a big moment.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
He was just it seemed like he was always under
control internally and just kind of a pin and a butt,
kind of a guy who was on the other side.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
What's great about this list, Joe is listening to the
names we're bringing up here, and then Miguel Rojas, Bill Mazeroski,
Francisco Cabrera, Rajai David Salejandro Kirk, Tony Womack. Right, you
spend so much time worrying about shutting down the big guys,
and baseball just has a way of these guys rising
to the surface and becoming these just unforgettable parts of
(28:17):
baseball history. But at number two, I've got a classic
matchup where you going all the way back to nineteen twelve,
we talk about big names. Tris Speaker bagging against Christy Matthewson.
It's Game eight of the nineteen twelve World Series. Red
Sox are down two to one. It's the bottom of
the tenth inning, runners on first and second, one out,
(28:41):
and the Red Socks are down by one and Tris
Speaker gets a single off Christy Matthewson to tie the game.
It tie the game. Now they won the game on
a sacrifice fly two batters later. But that's number two
on the list. You talk about big matchups. Tris Speaker
against Christy Matthewson in the tenth inning of Game eight.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
So Christy came out of the bullpen that game.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
I think he was still Oh no, he pitched all elevens, okay,
pitched all right.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
It's the Jack Morris kind of a situation. Don't you
love that?
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Oh yeah, I mean, of course, I mean, I know,
I know, I know different all the above, but that
that truly would would you love to have the video
of that? I mean to pop that up there on
an annual basis, just to watch something like that, a
nice clear video watching because Christy Bouthews, if I remember correctly,
when he completed his delivery, his backfoot never came forward.
(29:31):
It kind of like stayed on the rubber state on
the ground. And when I first came in up into
the minor leagues as a player and a coach, eventually
a lot of guys taught that.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
I mean, you'll pitching coaches when you do do that, when.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
You keep your foot back like that, you're really able
to reach out in front a lot. Better get greater
extension out front and really make your wrists pop.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
At the end.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
So anyway, yes, so Christy did not come in relief.
He pitched all eleven innings right there, that's interesting.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
And then at number one, and this will make you
question the methodology of a These greatest clutch hits of
all time is from Game seven to the nineteen sixty
World Series. But it's not Bill Mazarowski who's at number eight.
It's Hal Smith. Bottom of the eighth inning, the Pirates
(30:17):
are down seven to six to the Yankees. There's two
outs in the bottom of the eighth, they're down by one,
there's two runners on base, and Hal Smith hits a
three run homer, so he puts the Pirates up by
two going to the ninth inning. So just in terms
of the numerical value, if you will, of how it
hit changes or play changes the game, that's actually number
(30:41):
one all time. Of course, the Yankees tied the game
at the top of the ninth with two runs, and
then Mazarowski did his thing at the bottom of the inning.
But that you talk about being lost to history, it's
by when probability added the greatest play in baseball history.
And I guarantee you ask most fans you talk about
Game seven, nineteen sixty, it's Bill Mazarowski.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
They're talking about, not How Smith and.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
How Smith eventually became a Saint Louis Cardinal as a
third baseman. He was a very good third baseman and player. Yeah,
I kind of remember that, but I would not have
been able to recall it in a moment. The thing
that stands out to me about Mazarowski's home, and there's
a lot of photographs of that and the ball off
the bat, because that was a pretty good poke to
left field at at Forbes Field. I've been there on
the campus at Pitt and the wall is still there
(31:26):
now it's like an apartment complex, which I guess I
don't know, but it was such a I mean to me,
it's such an iconic place. They were kind of like
my second favorite team back in the day, primarily because
of their uniforms. I love their unigrams and I love
Roberto Clemente. But who was playing left field for the
Yankees when the ball went over the fence.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
That was mister Yogi Bearra Right, watch you.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
Watch Yogi going back.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
You see them eight going back to the wall right there,
which I always thought was fascinating because we always believe,
you know, think of Yogi as being a catcher.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
But believe me, folks, that was a pretty good poke.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
And if you think I think, you look at the photograph,
Mazerowski's kind of choking up, I think Ralph Terry is pitching,
and Ralph Terry was a starter that was coming out
of the bullpen. I believe at that time that series
went back and forth with when the Yankees won, they
beat the crap out of the Pirates, and when the
Pirates went was always a very close game.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
It was just one of those things.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
So that was one of those dynamic Yankee teams, and
that all those little subplots in that ballpark. I wish
I'd actually seen it in person other than just photographs
from movies.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, what an amazing ballpark. It was a pitcher's park.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Center field was so deep they used to keep the
batting turtle the cage in center field. They didn't have
to store it because centerfield was so dog gone big.
And then Masarowski talked about even the left field he
hit the ball, it was more of a line drive.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I guess and listen, he was not a home run hitter.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
And if you see the movies of ma breaking out
of the box, he's busting it.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
He thinks that balls off the wall maybe for a double.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
It wasn't until he got between first and second base
when he heard the crowd go nuts, like, oh, that
ball's out. He was flying around the bases. That wasn't
the standard admire it.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
No, I mean that was the that was the method
of the day. I mean, nobody really stood around and
admired stuff. I guess maybe a couple of the big
boys Yankee Stadium, if they pulled.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
One down the line, they knew, they knew.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
But all those big ballparks, Connie Mack was the same way.
The turtle was in center field, the banning cage was
in centerfield.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
They'd roll it out there after BP.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
I think it was like four forty seven, And I
remember watching Dick Allen, one of my faves.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Going over that and over that wall.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Because the start the stands, the bleachers started almost like
dead center field and wrapped around the left and there
was kind of an opening there between center field, the
stands and left field and to the right field scoreboard,
which was really tall also, and I saw him bang
a couple off that. But back in the day, there's
a lot of stuff. Equipment was left out there when
(33:56):
the when the ballpark was.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
That deep, pretty cool stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Talking about the greatest clutch hits in postseason history, according
to win Probability, added, Hey, listen, Joe, we're gonna take
a quick break.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
You know about the ABS system that's coming this year, but.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
There's another rule change in baseball this year that involves
the base coaches, and.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I can't wait to get your take on this one.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
We'll do that right after this on the Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I mentioned a rule change, and it actually began unofficially
in the postseason last year, where there was so much
talk about base coaches stealing signs and relaying them to
hitters or possibly to the runner out second relay it
to the hitter. And of course the Yankees were most
known for this. And wait there runners on second base.
(34:58):
I mean it looked like they were landing airplanes out
there on an aircraft carrier.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
It was crazy.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
So in the postseason, you know, baseball basically said we're
cracking down on getting coaches in the coaching box because
they would move farther down the line, and that way
they could get a grip or get a look at
the pitcher's grip how he came set, especially if you're
on the open side in some cases on the back
side of the picture, and through various ways of body
(35:26):
language and.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Whatnot, we're able to relay whatever they saw.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
If they did see something to the hitter, that's gonna
end because it started the postseason, and I was there
in the World Series, Joe, where that the coaches were
told specifically get in the box, no more wandering out,
and the Blue Jays actually had made something of a
complaint that Chris Woodward, the Dodgers' first base coach, was
(35:51):
able to look at the grip of Max Scherzer in
the stretch position sures a if you remember, he likes
to come through a very high set where it's easy
kind of to see where his hands are on the
baseball if you have the right angle. And actually there
was later on in that game, after the umpires cracked
down on this, Freddy Freeman hit a line drive that
barely missed Chris Woodward at first base. So I'd spoke
(36:15):
with him about this in spring training and he said, listen,
I understand, and I like the fact that everybody's playing
by the same rules, he said, but there's a lot
of coaches out there who are a little bit older
and not as mobile as me. It's actually a dangerous
position with the way guys swing the bat now and
you know, Joe, you've been out there on the baselines,
these chasers, sometimes these line drives. It's almost impossible to
(36:37):
get out of the way of those. So he was saying,
what they should do is just monitor coaches behavior, like
if they see they're doing anything to relay signs, and
you can do that from an eye in the sky
with a camera or whatever, then they basically call him
out and say knock it off. But he thinks there's
a safety issue at play here. I'm wondering what your
(36:59):
take is, if this is something that nobody should worry about,
not a big deal. I actually like the fact that
I don't like the fact that coaches are able to
pick up signs like this, and so I'm okay with
a system that cracks down on it.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
They close the borders, right, I listen, it is dangerous
down there. I when you're when you're coaching a base
either side, and I did both sides. When you have
a strong pool hitter and you know the pitcher maybe
doesn't have the best fastball, he throws a lot of
sinkers down and in whatever it gets, it could get
(37:32):
kind of scary down here. Trust me, it really can.
Having said all that, you know, I know what he's saying.
You know the monitoring, But I'll tell you what. You
could be so subtle in your sign giving that it's
almost imperceptible sometimes, and it would be hard.
Speaker 4 (37:48):
I think it'd be hard.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
To prove if you're going to permit the latitude that
the coach is still not doing something to relate to
the to the hitter. And a lot of times just
the open side, like the first base coach would primarily
be able to help her right handed hitter. It's it's
not as easy to relate the signs beyond that to
the third base coach to a left handed hitter, So
it gets kind of complicated.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
But yes, it's it can be dangerous. I still see.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
I stink you could still steal signs even if you're
in the regular spot too. It's just when you when
you move to a different spot, it may open up
different pitches to you. The thing we used to like
to do is steal signs from the dugout. I mean,
I don't know where they're at right now because I
haven't done it in a while, but I always used
to look at the bench coach has ever given signs
to the catcher regarding throwovers or not. And that was
(38:36):
a big part of the Angels ability when I was
there to steal bases or run at the right time,
because we knew they weren't thrown over, so we get
more aggressive with our leads. So to me, it was
always was my responsibility to try to get the third
base coaches signs and when if I I mean the
bench coach signs, if I could, I would relay it
from me to Rags at third base Ronnie Rennicky and
(38:58):
Rags would lean right prior to the pitch, and if
you would lean, that would tell the run at first
base go ahead and go they're not throwing over Premium
at first base. Alfredo Griffin was really good at picking
up what you're talking about, rips and things of that nature,
and he could see.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
Different things with that. And again regarding telling.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
He could actually tell the runner to go we he
had that kind of carte blaunch. And then the other
thing I picked up, remember it was it James Baldwin.
I'm not the author, but the picture for the White
Sox wasn't.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yeah, the right handed pitcher, Yeah, he's.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
The first guy that showed me width of your feet.
As a coach at first base, some guys would get
wider with their feet. I'm talking about writings in particular,
when they're coming over to first base. They get narrower
when they were going to home plate. So it always
looked for wide and narrow kind of keys from my
runners at first base. So there's other things to look at.
You know, left handed pitcher could be a little bit
(39:47):
more nasty or difficult to ascertain when he was coming over.
So these are the kind of things that would help
running game. We're talking about pitch selection specifically. Yeah, there's
some guys. I know that Wes Western could do it
from the dugout, and he did it a lot from
first base when he was the first base coach for
the Giants, for Willie Mays and William McCovey calling pitches
and home runs.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
It's an art. It's an art for him. Not everybody
can do it.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
I think the seed of doubt when you could put
that in another team's heads and all of a sudden
you make them trying to become more covert and increase
the number of signs are giving. It can lead to
confusion things like that. There's there's all these little games
going on within the game. So yes, long answer, put
him back in the box. As a coach, you got
to really learn how to if you if you've been
(40:29):
good at this, you got to like readjust your sites
and figure out how to do it from not being
so far down the line. Some guys, like a catcher
sometimes puts his signs so low you could see his
fingers poking out from underneath, and you can see if
he wiggles or not.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Rs.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
There's all kinds of stuff going on there that really
good guys are able to pick up on.
Speaker 4 (40:47):
So but there is a danger involved.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
There is a danger involved, and maybe the danger alone
should prevent guys from looking at the picture and nuts
and need to look more at to hitter at the
home at home plate.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah, I'm okay with keeping these guys in the box.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Like I said, They've got all these analysts now looking
at video trying to determine what the tails are. To picture,
the coach goes in there with that information and then
he tries to, you know, wander down the line, peer
into the glove, whatever, and pick that up and then
relay it. I'd read much rather keep the game in
the hands of the players. But Joe, give our listeners
an idea. If if I'm coaching first base and I
(41:24):
do see something, how can I relay it to the hitter?
Is a matter of simply you know, hands on knees
or hands on hip off speed fastball something.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, it could be, Yes, it could be something that easy.
It could be like I said, standing up, like like
you're saying, bend over, hands on knees. It could be
like just the way he turns his body, just the
way he has his head. I mean, he could actually
be looking away from home plate intentionally or looking at
home plate intentionally. And looking at home plate intentionally might
be he doesn't know and looking away means I got it,
(41:56):
and that.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
Could mean something specifically. It's very it's very easy to do.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
I mean, like, how about for my coaches, my signs
for for me to my third base coach for years,
was I would put it. I would put on an
active sign and then put it on hold. In other words,
i'd put the hit and run on sign on a
zero zero account, and of course I was not doing
that on that particular account, so I'd put a hold
sign on. So I would put this sign active sign
on on the first pitch, and then I would put
(42:22):
it on hold so that I could disguise my signs
moving further into the at bat. So I would give
Tom Foley the sign and I would put it on hold,
and then he would look in on the next pitch
and I might be talking to my bench coach, but
I didn't put it back on hold. That means the
sign became active. Really a way to disguise your signs
(42:42):
from the bench to the field, where the other side,
if they're really trying to look at you, as somebody
analytically trying to look at you, they're going, damn, he
didn't do anything on that one. I got all that
from Gene Mock. How about that. Gene taught me that
back in the eighties. So there's so many different ways
to disguise what you're doing, and it actually could change.
Kyle Ripken used to call pitches from short stop. He
(43:05):
used to call all the pictures for the Orioles pitchers
through like when Hoyles was the catcher, and he had
all these different methods of moving and sometimes I think
I had it, and then he would change during the
course of the game.
Speaker 4 (43:14):
And that's what you could do.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
You could change the key during the course of the game,
very subtly. So that's what makes it difficult. It could
be something the easiest thing in the world if you're
looking at the guy. But if it's that subtle and
you could change it that easily, then.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
You really don't know. And when you don't know for sure.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
To relay a sign to anybody becomes problematic because at
the time you're wrong all of a sudden, people whose
trust in the in the in the sign giver.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Yeah, that's that's always the downside, right when you're wrong.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Reminds me.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Greg Maddox back in the day, was pitching against the
Giants and for some reason they thought they had his
pitches and there would be whistling from the dugout when
he threw his change up. Maddix figured this out and actually,
I forget who his catcher was at the time figured
out we're going to cross him up, and whatever they
were donning, they led the Giants to believe it was
(44:05):
going to be a change up. He had the whistle,
Eddie threw a fastball in buzz the guy off the plate.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
So that's the downside.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
What do you think you have the signs and someone's
onto you having the signs, it could be dangerous.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
He'd be really dangerous. And that's that's the whole thing
about it.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
There are certain guys that are really, really good at this,
and there's also the guys that cry wolf all the time.
I got him, I got him, I got I got it,
I got him.
Speaker 4 (44:29):
I understand, you know.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
And you hear that all the time too, which becomes annoying.
So I've been around some really good signed Steelers. Jimmy
Edmonds was good, Eddie Eddie Perez was really good.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
Like I said, was.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
I sat next to West Western for years as a
scout at Packard Stadium when I was in the nineteen eighties,
and he would call pitches from we were sitting up
in the stands. He's scotten for the Braves, I'm with
the Angels, and he would call like Kenda Carter's pitches.
I think I've talked about this before, and it was
uncanny how he could pick up on I don't know,
stuff that he saw that I could really could not
(45:01):
slow down enough to pick up on it enough. So
it is an art form. It should be part of
the game. Sign stealing should be part of the game.
It is part of the game. I'm talking about the
old fashioned way through observation.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
I was taught by.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Preston Gomez to steal signs from a third base coach,
to always watch where he goes with this first touch.
I used to actually mark down first touches all season long.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
I'd have a.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Chart with the body on it and I'd put a
dot dot where did he start, and if he started
there and there was action, I would circle that. That
was Preston Gomez's information to me in order to do that.
So these are the kind of things that were passed
down for years, and I went through a period in
the late nineties.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
I got kind of lucky.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
I got on a street and it was all because
I'm talking about pitching out at the right time, which
nobody does anymore. But that was all through Preston's information.
To me. And again, it's a beautiful part of the game.
I'm not talking about utilizing technology. I'm talking about guys
getting lazy in regards to their sign giving and it
makes it somewhat easier for the other time to pick
(46:04):
up on it. And that is an art form and
that should be part of the game.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Yeah, absolutely love that part of the game. Inside baseball,
truly inside baseball. We've reached ourt ninth inning. Joe, it's
time to hand you the ball. Now, what do you
got for us this time? To end this episode of
the Book of Joe.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
You know, I was just thinking about the season itself,
and then I was thinking about the game itself. I mean,
you know, playing it every day of the game, within
the game, the August twelfth, May seventeenth, to whatever the day,
and then again here comes twenty twenty six. Though no
one can go back and make a brand new start,
anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending.
(46:41):
You know, you always get caught up intemniu whether you start,
you know, two three bogies in a row, then all
of a sudden you get on a nice roll. So
you can't necessarily make a brand new start. But if
you process the information well. And if you're able to
slow things down, I have enough confidence in yourself and
with the process and your and your culture of what
you're doing, you could create a brand new ending. And
(47:02):
that's I kind of like that. I think you have
to really UH teams have to understand that.
Speaker 4 (47:08):
UH.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
Players have to understand on a daily basis. Just in
the game, oh for three, first three at bats, that
doesn't mean the fourth that bat is going to be
oh for four. Go to the batting cage or batting
practice before the game. God, I feel horrible. Nothing feels right.
And you go in the game and get two or
three Knox pitchers come out of the bullpen.
Speaker 4 (47:26):
What do they got? They got?
Speaker 3 (47:27):
He had nothing, man, he had nothing down there, And
all of a sudden you're shaking his hand in the
ninth inning walking off the mound. So it starts one thing,
But you gotta always create. And I'm a big I'm
big into good starts, and I'm talking about that for
the season. But when things don't always go your way
in the beginning, make a better ending. And I think
(47:47):
it really pertains to the game itself on a daily basis,
and it pertains to the season. You know, you're reading
about teams that have opportunity right now those who do not.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
We just talked about the Angels.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
How do I create a great start and if I
can't seasons in progress, how do I create a better ending?
And again that comes down to culture, the ability to
make adjustments on the fly, all the things that really
helped Dodgers last year, you know, pedestrian in a sense,
and eventually looked.
Speaker 4 (48:14):
What they did at the end.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
It just if you really have mental toughness, this is
this is a concept you would understand.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
I love that concept. I've not heard that before, Joe.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
That really, when you think about it, you have one
opportunity to get off to a great start, but you
have numerous opportunities to forge a great ending.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
And he just made me think when you mentioned the Dodgers.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
I was just talking to Miguel Rojas in spring training
and he talked about, you know, leading up to that
Game seven home run, of course, he hadn't played in
three weeks, hadn't started the game in three weeks, and
after Game five the Dodgers lose their one loss.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Away from being eliminated.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
He sat in the dugout for twenty minutes after the game,
and he told me the reason he did that was
because he thought that was the end of his career
and that would be the last time he would wear
those Dodger whites. And he has love being a Dodger,
there's no doubt about that. So for twenty minutes he
just reflected on his career and just didn't want to
(49:10):
take one of the wait as long as he could
to take off his whites, Dodger white home uniform, one
of the classic uniforms in all of baseball. Finally, he
gets back to his locker and there's a text on
his phone and it's from Dave Roberts, and the text says,
you're in there at second base for Game six. And
as I said, Dave Roberts said, there was no way
(49:31):
he could live with himself losing the World Series without
giving one of his glue guys a chance to start
a World Series game. And the guy winds up saving
their season with completely unexpected home run in the bottom
of the nineth inning of Game seven of the World Series.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Just crazy stuff.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
I love the fact that the manager trusted his gut
at that point and more than paid off.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
In Game seven, I.
Speaker 3 (49:54):
Just love the antithetical analytical player right there. I mean,
the guy that just is a baseball guy probably doesn't
fit too many analysis really well well other than his defense,
which is really and he listening as a clutch hit
or two.
Speaker 4 (50:07):
And he I just think he's a good baseball player.
I loved him in Miami. I thought, damn, this guy.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
He's the kind of guy that if you have him
on a daily basis, you really do appreciate it. It's
great that Dave David chose that moment to shift gears,
you know, necessarily, and it's awesome. I just I just
love when real baseball works, and real baseball worked for
the Dodgers last year.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
Great stuff, Joe. We'll see you next time on the
Book of Joe.
Speaker 4 (50:36):
See your brother, Thanks man.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
The Book of.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Joe podcast is a production of iHeart Radio. For more
podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey Daron, Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
It's the Book of Joe Podcasts with Me, Tom Berducci,
and of course Joe Madden. Joe, how's it going down
there in Florida these days? I'm assuming you haven't shoveled
two feet of snow.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
It's freezing. Had to wear a coat last night when
I went out. Yeah, it's unusually cool for right now.
I know you guys are going through a lot worse.
I looking at my cameras up there and sugar Loaf.
My god, the snow was almost gone on the golf
course now all the way back. It's really it's just
you know, I'm sure a lot of you guys are
(00:49):
talking about reminds you of when you were a kid,
the snow banks after the plows came by King of
the Hill, all the kind of good stuff we used
to play. So I have nothing to complain about. Everything
goes well here. That's supposed to warn back up tomorrow,
be able to play by Wednesday.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Game about Yeah, I'll be you called it, Joe.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
It was an old school dump like the kind of
stuff where you say, you know, when I was a kid. Well,
now these kids get to experience a honest to goodness
blizzard and it looks beautiful right now. Actually, at speaking
of old school, I want to talk about one of
your old teams, the Los Angeles Angels.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
They're in the news job.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I'm not sure if you caught this Arti Moreno. Typically,
you know he's only going to speak about once a
year in spring training, he'll make some rounds talk with reporters,
and he really caught people's attention from his comments at
Angels camp.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
The headline quote, I'm not sure if you saw it, Joe.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
He was asked about Angel fans and he said winning
is not the number one priority for Angels fans. To
quote Artie Moreno, the number one thing fans want is affordability.
They want affordability, they want safety, They want a good
experience when they come to the ballpark. Believe it or not,
winning is not in their top five. The moms want
(02:07):
to be able to afford to bring the kids. Moms
make about eighty percent of the decisions. They want to
be able to bring their kids and be affordable, and
they want safety, and you want to have a good experience,
so they get all the.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Attainment, entertainment stuff or whatever.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Interesting to me, Joe that he made these quotes because
you and I we know Ardi Moreno, and that's a
really important mission for him, is to make tickets affordable.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
They love having families come out to the ballpark.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I don't want to say he misspoke, Joe, but I
think he misled people into what's important running a major
league franchise. The guiding force is obviously winning. And you
look at the Angels. They had a seventeen year stretch
where they attracted three million people or more and they
were one of the guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Big draws in baseball and they have.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Not gotten to two point seven million in the last
four straight years. And why well, they've had ten straight
losing seasons. So I think I know what Arty is
driving at. You know what drives him to put a
product on the field and have people come to the ballpark.
And if you do pull people who come to the ballpark,
(03:15):
they will tell you things like affordability and safety are
super important. They're already there. But I think that the
problem here is to get people to the ballpark. Yeah,
winning has to be the priority, Joe.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
You know, LARTI obviously the angels, dear to your heart.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I thought some of this was blown out of proportion,
but some of it really did resonate with where the resident,
where the angels are right now?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, I think I agreed that part of it was
blown out of proportion. It's just a matter of when
you do want to say something publicly like that, you
got to be more inclusive regarding all of your thoughts.
Because I've been around already enough to know that he
doesn't like to lose. I know that I've been part
of those meetings. So it's kind of a misstatement in
a ways. I think if you had just dixcrapolate it
(04:03):
all the way out beyond that those five points, I
think it could have gone by a little bit easier.
Just like a baseball team I've talked about this year
and I have. I want it all, you know. I
want pitching, I want power, I want contact, I want defense,
I want speed.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
I want all of that.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
And so I think if you're an owner of a team,
you want all of that too, right. You want the affordability,
you want a wonderful place for fans to go into
ten games. You want tradition, which I you know, that's
the one thing I used to really play up with there.
I tried to play up when I was out there,
to really get into our tradition of the Angels, because
I was you know, started in seventy six, believe it
(04:43):
or not, seventy five, they weren't that old, and there
was already a lot of base a strong base had
been built, a foundation, some really good players had come
to that organization, and eventually we get into the eighties
and I was a part of that in the nineties,
and then of course we won our first World Series
in two thousand and two. So there's a lot there
(05:03):
to promote, and it is it's been disappointing, you know,
I really I went there with the intent of I
really wanted to be part of the quote unquote rebuild,
getting us back to prominence. I thought we were on
our way to do that and just do not have
an opportunity to finish it off. So there is the
fans out there, listen, that's really good baseball country. Again
(05:27):
we've spoken about. I love southern California high school and
collegiate and junior college baseball. I think they've had dynamic
coaching out there. I think they've just like Orange County
is kind of a bashing of conservativism. There's a real
conservative bent on baseball out there, which I like, you
play the game right, you play the game fundamentally correct.
Coaches were tough. They're almost like football coaches. You've made
(05:48):
a mistake, you were called out on it. There's so
much good going on out there, and I think, you know, yeah,
the fans have options out there that could go to
the beach, go to an art festival, go to a
flea market on a weekend or any particular day the
weather's so good, So there's a lot of options to consider.
As a paying customer. What do I spend my dollars?
What do I vote my dollars?
Speaker 4 (06:10):
So I get all.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Of that, But for me, the angel should be I
don't know, in playoff consideration annually this is it's been
way too long. The like I said, the alumni there,
there's some tough guys out there, man, I play with
a lot of tough guys and I coached didn't manage
a lot of them, and very prideful people.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
So it doesn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
The trend that's been going on regarding the inability to
play up to Angel standards as I saw them, and
that's the part that's disappointing. So yes, I already should
have extrapolated out a little bit farther exactly what he meant.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
I do believe he wants to win.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
I do believe he likes winning because I've been there,
and I do believe that the fans of Southern California
and Angel fan base is a strong one, loyal one,
believe me. And it really began in two thousand and
two when we won the World Series. That's why I
saw drem shift. I mean because I was there again
for a period of time. We did good and pretty
good in the nineties, eighties, rope for pretty good early eighties,
(07:11):
but two thousand and two shifted everything. That was the
paradigm shift. That's where everybody became an Angels fan. You know,
x Stine and the X Factor and all the thundersticks
and everything's just started catching on. The little things that
are Bodley Monkey. I could keep going on and on.
So it's there, it's waiting to happen. It wants to happen.
Those fans just don't only want affordable ballpark to attend,
(07:33):
but they also want the Angels to win.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, they do have great fans, There's no question about it.
It's a great place to watch a game. It's a
good vibe in the ballpark. A lot of things going
for the Angels. They're just been and they have been
obviously an underachieving franchise. A couple of the things I
think they need, Joe. They've got to update their spring
training facility. I know they've been looking into that. They're
behind the curve when it comes to just it's probably
(07:57):
true at the main ballpark too. Just some of the
features and the edges that teams can get in terms
of what available to the players from a training standpoint.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Stability, I mean this team has locked stability.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I mean since Joe, since you left, Joe, They've gone
through four managers, four straight seasons, losing eighty nine or
more games. They've gone through general managers. They've got Kurt
Zuzuki as the manager this year on a one year contract.
It's just been a lot of turnover without stability. Look
at any great franchise you want to extend windows, you
need some stability. It hasn't happened there. They definitely have
(08:34):
room to increase the payroll. Listen, they're probably at about
one hundred and eighty one million dollars this year. That's
down from about two h six last year. It's still
enough to be competitive, don't get me wrong. But traditionally
Artie Moreno has stayed beneath that first luxury tax threshold.
I think he did go over at once and it
was almost really an accounting era. They barely got over it.
(08:58):
So there's room to grow. But what they have right now,
Joe I would say to me, especially in a very
tough division, I don't see them as a contender. So
I think you have to spend smartly when it comes
to when you're ready, where you are in that winning
curve defines everything in terms of the spending money in
(09:18):
the here and now, and I think they're not quite
there yet.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
How do they get there again?
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I get back to facilities, they get back to stability,
but it isn't attractive play and like the Dodgers up
the road, it should be a destination place, right, it
should be a place where players want to go play.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
The infrastructure is substandard. There's no question.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Spring training for years they were the major league team
was upstairs in a really deficient facility.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
These have to raise a tent up there for weight
room every year, and.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Batting tunnels, et cetera, and just a substandard clubhouse. And
the minor league team was the minor league situation was
down below in the clover leaf with much better facilities.
Eventually that was rectified and it was shifted. Regardless that
still that facility down below could use a little bit
of an upgrade.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
The major league.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Facility itself, I love Anaheim Stadium, but I'm telling you
what it's just, it's slowly deteriorated to the point where
it is it's just one of the least most the
least impressive out of all the major league ballparks when
you walk into it. There's been there's been a lack
of vision regarding building up the infrastructure there, no question.
(10:28):
And on the minor league side, I mean the spring
training side too, So it starts right there.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
I mean, you go to the Cubs.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
And my god, it's like an NFL facility right there,
and and others that you go to the Rockies and
the Diamondbacks, my god, you walk on that campus and
it's like leaps and bells you can jargue with though
the Rockies really haven't taken advantage of that either. But
the infrastructure is not the greatest and just becoming down
to the product even my last moments there. For me,
(10:56):
they missed an opportunity man to turn show Hey into something,
and I think even Mike trot into something because when
show Hey is not coming back, which is pretty obvious,
I really thought they should have traded.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
Him at the end of that.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
I know it's hard to be the guy that traded
Showio Tani, but they probably would have been reaping some
kind of reward since then. And I also thought one
show He left, they should have traded Trotty because at
that point it was really hard for Mike to be
the pillar to rebuild that whole situation on. And you know,
you talk about the old days with herschel Walker trades,
and you know all the guys that came back in
(11:29):
on a hall like that. Potentially it doesn't always work,
but at least would have given them an opportunity to
restock the cupboards a little bit. So there's a lot
of things that the infrastructure was not good. I thought
they missed out on the opportunity with Shohey, and then
trouty to really possibly kickstart. And I know they don't
like to word out their rebuildings either, do I man,
I'm not even though I've been part of rebuilds, whether
(11:52):
it was the Angels and then eventually the Rays and
then the Cubs, that the Angels just don't like that stuff.
But there was a perfect opportunity I thought to really
kickstart that way. That wouldn't have cost him anything other
than some bad publicity that they could have overcome very easily. So, yes,
infrastructure below standard, and I thought they missed out on
(12:13):
the opportunity to reap some benefits from show Hey leaving
and try out potential leaving.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I understand the show Hey situation there at that trade deadline,
you probably knew if your ardy Moreno, maybe you didn't
know where the contractor was going numbers wise, but you
probably knew you weren't going to keep him, even though
I think show Hey really did have a preference to
stay there in a perfect world. But at the time
I got to admit Joe first guess was I thought
(12:40):
they did the right thing hanging out to him.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Remember, they were only a few games out of a
wildcard situation, and you know.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
We bang a lot of these teams for not trying
to win, and you had a team that has been
desperate to get into the postseason and it was within
arms reach at that point at the trade deadline. Now
it went downhill quickly after that, and on hindsight, you say, well,
they should have moved him.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
But when a team is so hungry for a.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Playoffs spot and there's an opportunity there, it wasn't a
great one, but it was they were in the mix,
they were looking at making a run for a playoff spot.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I was okay with them hanging on to show.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Hey, I actually said it at the time, though you know,
I had no skin in the game because I was
gone by then.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
But I really, I really thought that would have been
the wise things to do.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
And again I just I guess maybe having too much
inside information regarding being in the building and knowing what
it felt like overarching overall and you know what occurred
even after I left, I just thought it would have
been the right thing to do, that's all. And again,
I'm not trying. This is not a padding on the back.
I'm not attacking anybody. I just thought at that moment, again,
(13:48):
the infrastructure needs to be addressed. Not bright shiny objects,
but really non sexy stuff has to be addressed. And
number two, I thought there was a perfect opportunity to
restock that place because again it's just and I'm not
gonna this is not here, this is not any kind
of a critique or critical and just telling you being
inside the building and filling what everything felt like at
(14:08):
that moment.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
I just thought it was the right thing to do.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
And finally, Joe, let's look ahead to the twenty sixth
season for the Angels. You know, as they've done the
last few years, they're taking a lot of flyers on people,
especially with the pitching staff, Guys trying to make their
way back from injuries. Alec Manoa, Grayson Rodriguez, Robert Stevenson,
Kirby Yates, guys like Hunter Strickland coming back. There's a
lot of flyers are taking on pitchers trying to come back.
(14:33):
I like the idea Kurtzuzuki great guy that a Catcher's
been around a lot of great managers.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
You just never know what first time managers.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
You're always hoping you have the next steven Vote, and
maybe Kurtzuzuki is that guy. I don't like the idea
of any manager on a one year deal, but that's
the reality right now. Can this team compete, which in
these days means can you play five hundred ball for
four months and actually hang around wildcard race?
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I like Kurt I was around him for a bit there.
He's got an ingratiating way about him. He communica well.
He's definitely would be into cooperation and trying to take
whatever the vision is upstairs and promoting it downstairs.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
I see him doing all of that.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
You know, of course, as a as a manager of
game strategy, I really can't speak to that, but I
know as a communicator within he's an easy conversation So
I think from that perspective he should do a really
good job. Again with all the fellows that you just mentioned,
nice players, man, nice players.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
But the overarching for me is like what is the culture?
Speaker 3 (15:36):
And you know, people don't like to hear that word,
but that was really what I was attempting to do
there culturally, you know, creating this situation, this method that's
able to replicate itself on an annual basis, and then
you start getting a certain vibe within your clubhouse that
attracts and guys buy into and know what to expect,
(15:58):
and then when you get new guys in, they absorb
them quickly and tell them this is how we do
things or this is not how we do things here.
That's the part of the non sexy component of all
this that's important. It's not just about bringing you know,
different folks in. It's got to be with the specific
thought in mind and a method of operation that I
don't think has been fully formulated. And I think a
(16:20):
lot of people mock because they really don't understand, you know,
what it is or how to do it. So I think,
you know, if Kirk can really somehow get an opportunity
there for the next couple of years and just really
he's come from from some great spots and including cal
State Fullerton, so he knows what it's all about, how
to create a culture and the method of play, and
I think that's.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
What they need. That was my goal was to.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Bring back that gritty method of Angel baseball that I
saw in two thousand and two and before that, really
dynamic pitching, solid defense, and again, for lack of a
better term, tough guys. I mean there was a time
that we fought the Texas Rangers during batting practice one night,
I've hit funos there in the night before, Adam Kennedy
had a tough time with what's name Lard the catcher
(17:06):
in a ball and strich situation, and I knew, I
know afk Adam really well. And the next day we're
taking VP and I'm Adam standing in front of me
and he's practicing in swings and as he's practicing, he's
looking behind where Texas was just stretching, and he happened
to lock eyes with Laird, and here we go. All
of a sudden, he's running after Laird and it was
a good old fashioned brawl during batting practice.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Sorry, folks, but I really dig on that stuff. I
think it matters. I think it makes a difference.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
I'm watching like old videos of different altercations during time
in MLB and Will becoming a little bit too cozy
with one another, and it's again, I love the Angels dynamic.
And I could start naming guys all the way back
to when I first began going to Big league camps
in eighty one, when you had the sense he's at third,
(17:55):
you had Burlson at short stuff, you had Ritchie had
Rodney you had Boonie, you had Reggie, you had Winfield.
You had all these dudes different and there's nothing wrong
with that, man, just you know, creating this culture and
this method of operation that I think that's the first
should be the first order of business there.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, listening to that story about angels in Texas reminds
me of your I think I might still be in
the Devil Rays taking on the New York Yankees in
spring training and setting a tone there with a bench
clearing brawl. Hey, listen, Joe, and I want to give
you a quiz coming up in our next segment. Here
you noticed, I'm sure that Bill Mazerowski, the Hall of
(18:34):
Fame second baseman died, hit probably the most famous home
run in baseball history. But you know what, it's not
even in the top five of the most clutch hits
of all time. I wanted to give you a quiz, Joe,
on the top hits of all time, and we'll see
what you can come up with.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I know you were there for at least one of those.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
We talk about that right after this on the Book
of Joe.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. Yeah, it's kind
of crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Joe the Mazarowski home run nineteen sixty. First of all,
I love that because it's so baseball, right. He was
hitting eighth in the lineup that day against the Mighty Yankees.
And I always say this, You know, you can't call
time out and design a play to put the ball
in your best player's hands. You don't have the quarterbacks
starting to play every time a year at this, this
(19:32):
wheel of fortune, the batting lineup and where it comes
around at the particular time. Leading off the bottom of
the ninth inning, tie game Game seven, it's number eight,
light hitting Bill Mazerowski hits a home run, and you
know it's not the most clutch hit of all time
if you can believe that, or not as crazy as
that sounds, right, Yeah, in Game seven of the World Series,
(19:53):
will walk off Homer. What's bigger, Well, it turns out
it's number eight according to win Championship probability added.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
So it's a little bit of an algorithm, Joe.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
But basically it takes into account all the factors of
the game. You know, score, how many outs, what inning
it was, you know, what game of a series it was.
You actually were at one of these, Joe, in the
top eight of all time. You want to venture a
guess as to what hit you witness that is in
(20:24):
the top eight of the most clutch hits in the
postseason postseason?
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Okay, because the long Goore's home rund doesn't count, then right, Okay?
Speaker 4 (20:33):
I would say, what's his face? Davis with the Indians?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Oh, you are so good? Yes, what's his face? Rajer Davis?
That is number six all time on our list, not
my list, but this is again going by win probability
added to win a championship. What's interesting is that Game
seven of last year's World Series, Joe has three of
(20:59):
the top twelve plays of all time in the postseason.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
You want to take a guess on what those three were.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I mean, it's first of all, there's no other game
that has more than two, and there's three of the
top twelve in one game.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
That's how exciting that game was.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
The home run the shortstop Mige Rojas Rojas Ross. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Again, here's a guy bat ninth a utility guy. Dave
Roberts put him in the lineup for Game six because
he said, I can't lose the World Series without using
one of my glue guys. Yes, it turns out one
of his glue. Guys hit the tying home run in
the bottom of the ninth. That's actually number twelve on
the list. Miguel Rojas's home run.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I always get. I can always screw up his I
like that guy. I think he's a very good player.
Oh he's way under He's a winning player, absolutely way underrated.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
So there's two others in that in.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
That series or that game, same game. Two others.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Wow, you know what? Uh okay, But it had to
be a hit. It had to be something positive not negative.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Well, there's actually one of both.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Actually, the one hit was the one that actually decided
the game, the winning run scored on it. People forget
because we all remember Miguel it was so stunning, But
the guy who put the Dodgers ahead was.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Shoot.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I forgot, easy to forget. Just quiet goes about his business.
Will Smith hit the home run.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
That's why he was very he's very good man.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
I can't even go back to Bobby Thompson or Chris
Chambliss for all these Kirk, but I mean, you're you're
I can't even remember last postseason.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
What you had for breakfast?
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
And actually number four on the list and the most
impactful play in that game seven last year. No, that's
a good guess though, game ending double play, Kirk.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I mean it's first and third, one out.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
That's the number four most important play in postseason history.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
And I said it then, Joe, and I'll say it again.
You have to start the rudder there at first base.
Ground ball pitcher, ground ball hitter. You know they're not
throwing down the second base. Dave Roberts told me that
Addison Barger is plus runner at first base. You got
to take that double play out of order, didn't happen
and got the ground ball.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Well, we had a slow runner ground ball picture, you know,
easy to assume the ground ball is gonna be put
on the ground. That's when you definitely start runners. I
mean that's I had stabbed that analytical sheet. I think
that we had it when it was with the Cubs.
We developed there could have been the race, but I'm
not sure. But the sheet actually would predict probability of
ground balls versus that picture and that hitter combined, so
(23:32):
I would have like a high number or a low
number the ball near a ball and ground It really
was helpful when the starter runner sent a full count
if there was any kind of ambivalence at all. If
there was a high high chance of probability or a
probability of a ground ball hit by this hitter and
the pitcher did throw ground balls, I'm starting this guy
one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
I'm going to start in this guy.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
And then on the other side, if it's a swing
and miss kind of a pitcher, swing and miss kind
of a hitter and the ball is going to be
in the air, I might not start this guy. I
really loved that chart, and I really tried to get
the Angels to developed that when I was there, but
they were uncomfortable with it. That's part about analytics that
people don't really understand that. Let every analytical department is
created equally, so you're always looking for those little edge
(24:11):
things right there. I agree with you, you're.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Not throwing through right there.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
One of my things in spring training is like the
point of the game, the emphasis of the game when
it goes to that first and third play, and that
directs our priority. It's always a priority base play. So
if the runner at third is a priority and we
can you cannot afford to let that man score, then
we were probably not going to throw and start this
confusing play going from home the second back to home.
(24:36):
So yes, you would probably that'd be part of the equation. Also,
all those things for me are considered in regards to
whether the start the runner or not.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
And I think you're right on with that.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
And also there's no way I'm having the second basement
move to cover second base to open up a whole
correct when the other party, the World Series tying run
is a third base as you well put it, that's
the priority. So now going to go countdown style, Joe,
the top eight of all time. I mentioned Bill Malziowski
at number eight, number seven, Where were you for this one?
(25:06):
Francisco Cabrera, Oh, two run single, Game seven, nineteen ninety
two NLCS. That's the famous play where I love the
way and Evince like told this story. He was in
center field and he mentioned to Barry Bonds to move
in closer with the game winning run on second base
and left field. Bonds looked at him and gave him
(25:27):
the finger. Didn't move, I said, ring barely made it
home from second base.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I remember that very well. There was two outs of
nobody on. Wasn't there before that? Ever, that situation occurred
or was it. It might be right, and I might have been,
and then he got in the right and there's no
pinch running for a really really I mean glacially slow runner,
And I listened. I scouted bonds when he was at
Arizona State. Never really had the strongest arm. I think
it improved as he got to the Major League baseball
(25:54):
professional baseball. But I mean for him to score on
that base, it was hit pretty hard too, if I
remember correctly, and it was right at him, but he
might have been deep, but it was kind of like
a good angle throw. But yeah, I do remember that
really really well, sliding just beating it. And then one
more of point, Like you talked about not covering on
that plate with the with the Cubs, I don't know
(26:15):
how many years in a row when Molino was there.
Obviously was there the whole time YADI eight. We weren't covering.
We weren't covering anytime a runner started with him hit it,
we weren't covering.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Wasn't going to cover.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
I thought he was that good at handling the bat
that if you saw a didn't field a break, he
would hit the ball in that particular direction. So I
don't care what time of the game was we were
not going to cover with they Aaudia and Molina hitting
with the runner at first movie.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Wow, that's respect right there.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Working down the list, number six was the Roger I
what's his face?
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Davis home run. Number five.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
We mentioned this Will Smith the home run to win
Game seven in twenty twenty five. Number four was the
Alejandro Kirk ground ball double play number three. It's from
two thousand and one Game seven World Series and you're thinking, well,
it must be Luis Gonzales, right bloop game winning hit walker.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
No, it's actually Tony Womack's double Oh I remember that.
You remember that one.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
They're down two to one, there's one out, there's runners
on first and second, and Tony Womack doubles down the
line off Mariano Rivera that ties the game and puts
runners on second third.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
That set everything in motion.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
So that's actually the hit as terms of changing the
outcome of the game in Game seven two thousand and one.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Tony Womack quietly really good player, really good player. I
remember exactly how long his career was, but I had
a lot of respect for him.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
He played it right.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Mind me have Tony Phillips a little bit, but he
he really was a good baseball player, and yeah, I
could see him.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
Coming through a big moment.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
He was just it seemed like he was always under
control internally and just kind of a pin and a butt,
kind of a guy who was on the other side.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
What's great about this list, Joe is listening to the
names we're bringing up here, and then Miguel Rojas, Bill Mazeroski,
Francisco Cabrera, Rajai David Salejandro Kirk, Tony Womack. Right, you
spend so much time worrying about shutting down the big guys,
and baseball just has a way of these guys rising
to the surface and becoming these just unforgettable parts of
(28:17):
baseball history. But at number two, I've got a classic
matchup where you going all the way back to nineteen twelve,
we talk about big names. Tris Speaker bagging against Christy Matthewson.
It's Game eight of the nineteen twelve World Series. Red
Sox are down two to one. It's the bottom of
the tenth inning, runners on first and second, one out,
(28:41):
and the Red Socks are down by one and Tris
Speaker gets a single off Christy Matthewson to tie the game.
It tie the game. Now they won the game on
a sacrifice fly two batters later. But that's number two
on the list. You talk about big matchups. Tris Speaker
against Christy Matthewson in the tenth inning of Game eight.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
So Christy came out of the bullpen that game.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
I think he was still Oh no, he pitched all elevens, okay,
pitched all right.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
It's the Jack Morris kind of a situation. Don't you
love that?
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Oh yeah, I mean, of course, I mean, I know,
I know, I know different all the above, but that
that truly would would you love to have the video
of that? I mean to pop that up there on
an annual basis, just to watch something like that, a
nice clear video watching because Christy Bouthews, if I remember correctly,
when he completed his delivery, his backfoot never came forward.
(29:31):
It kind of like stayed on the rubber state on
the ground. And when I first came in up into
the minor leagues as a player and a coach, eventually
a lot of guys taught that.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
I mean, you'll pitching coaches when you do do that, when.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
You keep your foot back like that, you're really able
to reach out in front a lot. Better get greater
extension out front and really make your wrists pop.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
At the end.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
So anyway, yes, so Christy did not come in relief.
He pitched all eleven innings right there, that's interesting.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
And then at number one, and this will make you
question the methodology of a These greatest clutch hits of
all time is from Game seven to the nineteen sixty
World Series. But it's not Bill Mazarowski who's at number eight.
It's Hal Smith. Bottom of the eighth inning, the Pirates
(30:17):
are down seven to six to the Yankees. There's two
outs in the bottom of the eighth, they're down by one,
there's two runners on base, and Hal Smith hits a
three run homer, so he puts the Pirates up by
two going to the ninth inning. So just in terms
of the numerical value, if you will, of how it
hit changes or play changes the game, that's actually number
(30:41):
one all time. Of course, the Yankees tied the game
at the top of the ninth with two runs, and
then Mazarowski did his thing at the bottom of the inning.
But that you talk about being lost to history, it's
by when probability added the greatest play in baseball history.
And I guarantee you ask most fans you talk about
Game seven, nineteen sixty, it's Bill Mazarowski.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
They're talking about, not How Smith and.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
How Smith eventually became a Saint Louis Cardinal as a
third baseman. He was a very good third baseman and player. Yeah,
I kind of remember that, but I would not have
been able to recall it in a moment. The thing
that stands out to me about Mazarowski's home, and there's
a lot of photographs of that and the ball off
the bat, because that was a pretty good poke to
left field at at Forbes Field. I've been there on
the campus at Pitt and the wall is still there
(31:26):
now it's like an apartment complex, which I guess I
don't know, but it was such a I mean to me,
it's such an iconic place. They were kind of like
my second favorite team back in the day, primarily because
of their uniforms. I love their unigrams and I love
Roberto Clemente. But who was playing left field for the
Yankees when the ball went over the fence.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
That was mister Yogi Bearra Right, watch you.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
Watch Yogi going back.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
You see them eight going back to the wall right there,
which I always thought was fascinating because we always believe,
you know, think of Yogi as being a catcher.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
But believe me, folks, that was a pretty good poke.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
And if you think I think, you look at the photograph,
Mazerowski's kind of choking up, I think Ralph Terry is pitching,
and Ralph Terry was a starter that was coming out
of the bullpen. I believe at that time that series
went back and forth with when the Yankees won, they
beat the crap out of the Pirates, and when the
Pirates went was always a very close game.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
It was just one of those things.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
So that was one of those dynamic Yankee teams, and
that all those little subplots in that ballpark. I wish
I'd actually seen it in person other than just photographs
from movies.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, what an amazing ballpark. It was a pitcher's park.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Center field was so deep they used to keep the
batting turtle the cage in center field. They didn't have
to store it because centerfield was so dog gone big.
And then Masarowski talked about even the left field he
hit the ball, it was more of a line drive.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I guess and listen, he was not a home run hitter.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
And if you see the movies of ma breaking out
of the box, he's busting it.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
He thinks that balls off the wall maybe for a double.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
It wasn't until he got between first and second base
when he heard the crowd go nuts, like, oh, that
ball's out. He was flying around the bases. That wasn't
the standard admire it.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
No, I mean that was the that was the method
of the day. I mean, nobody really stood around and
admired stuff. I guess maybe a couple of the big
boys Yankee Stadium, if they pulled.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
One down the line, they knew, they knew.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
But all those big ballparks, Connie Mack was the same way.
The turtle was in center field, the banning cage was
in centerfield.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
They'd roll it out there after BP.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
I think it was like four forty seven, And I
remember watching Dick Allen, one of my faves.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Going over that and over that wall.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Because the start the stands, the bleachers started almost like
dead center field and wrapped around the left and there
was kind of an opening there between center field, the
stands and left field and to the right field scoreboard,
which was really tall also, and I saw him bang
a couple off that. But back in the day, there's
a lot of stuff. Equipment was left out there when
(33:56):
the when the ballpark was.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
That deep, pretty cool stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Talking about the greatest clutch hits in postseason history, according
to win Probability, added, Hey, listen, Joe, we're gonna take
a quick break.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
You know about the ABS system that's coming this year, but.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
There's another rule change in baseball this year that involves
the base coaches, and.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I can't wait to get your take on this one.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
We'll do that right after this on the Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I mentioned a rule change, and it actually began unofficially
in the postseason last year, where there was so much
talk about base coaches stealing signs and relaying them to
hitters or possibly to the runner out second relay it
to the hitter. And of course the Yankees were most
known for this. And wait there runners on second base.
(34:58):
I mean it looked like they were landing airplanes out
there on an aircraft carrier.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
It was crazy.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
So in the postseason, you know, baseball basically said we're
cracking down on getting coaches in the coaching box because
they would move farther down the line, and that way
they could get a grip or get a look at
the pitcher's grip how he came set, especially if you're
on the open side in some cases on the back
side of the picture, and through various ways of body
(35:26):
language and.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Whatnot, we're able to relay whatever they saw.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
If they did see something to the hitter, that's gonna
end because it started the postseason, and I was there
in the World Series, Joe, where that the coaches were
told specifically get in the box, no more wandering out,
and the Blue Jays actually had made something of a
complaint that Chris Woodward, the Dodgers' first base coach, was
(35:51):
able to look at the grip of Max Scherzer in
the stretch position sures a if you remember, he likes
to come through a very high set where it's easy
kind of to see where his hands are on the
baseball if you have the right angle. And actually there
was later on in that game, after the umpires cracked
down on this, Freddy Freeman hit a line drive that
barely missed Chris Woodward at first base. So I'd spoke
(36:15):
with him about this in spring training and he said, listen,
I understand, and I like the fact that everybody's playing
by the same rules, he said, but there's a lot
of coaches out there who are a little bit older
and not as mobile as me. It's actually a dangerous
position with the way guys swing the bat now and
you know, Joe, you've been out there on the baselines,
these chasers, sometimes these line drives. It's almost impossible to
(36:37):
get out of the way of those. So he was saying,
what they should do is just monitor coaches behavior, like
if they see they're doing anything to relay signs, and
you can do that from an eye in the sky
with a camera or whatever, then they basically call him
out and say knock it off. But he thinks there's
a safety issue at play here. I'm wondering what your
(36:59):
take is, if this is something that nobody should worry about,
not a big deal. I actually like the fact that
I don't like the fact that coaches are able to
pick up signs like this, and so I'm okay with
a system that cracks down on it.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
They close the borders, right, I listen, it is dangerous
down there. I when you're when you're coaching a base
either side, and I did both sides. When you have
a strong pool hitter and you know the pitcher maybe
doesn't have the best fastball, he throws a lot of
sinkers down and in whatever it gets, it could get
(37:32):
kind of scary down here. Trust me, it really can.
Having said all that, you know, I know what he's saying.
You know the monitoring, But I'll tell you what. You
could be so subtle in your sign giving that it's
almost imperceptible sometimes, and it would be hard.
Speaker 4 (37:48):
I think it'd be hard.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
To prove if you're going to permit the latitude that
the coach is still not doing something to relate to
the to the hitter. And a lot of times just
the open side, like the first base coach would primarily
be able to help her right handed hitter. It's it's
not as easy to relate the signs beyond that to
the third base coach to a left handed hitter, So
it gets kind of complicated.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
But yes, it's it can be dangerous. I still see.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
I stink you could still steal signs even if you're
in the regular spot too. It's just when you when
you move to a different spot, it may open up
different pitches to you. The thing we used to like
to do is steal signs from the dugout. I mean,
I don't know where they're at right now because I
haven't done it in a while, but I always used
to look at the bench coach has ever given signs
to the catcher regarding throwovers or not. And that was
(38:36):
a big part of the Angels ability when I was
there to steal bases or run at the right time,
because we knew they weren't thrown over, so we get
more aggressive with our leads. So to me, it was
always was my responsibility to try to get the third
base coaches signs and when if I I mean the
bench coach signs, if I could, I would relay it
from me to Rags at third base Ronnie Rennicky and
(38:58):
Rags would lean right prior to the pitch, and if
you would lean, that would tell the run at first
base go ahead and go they're not throwing over Premium
at first base. Alfredo Griffin was really good at picking
up what you're talking about, rips and things of that nature,
and he could see.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
Different things with that. And again regarding telling.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
He could actually tell the runner to go we he
had that kind of carte blaunch. And then the other
thing I picked up, remember it was it James Baldwin.
I'm not the author, but the picture for the White
Sox wasn't.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yeah, the right handed pitcher, Yeah, he's.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
The first guy that showed me width of your feet.
As a coach at first base, some guys would get
wider with their feet. I'm talking about writings in particular,
when they're coming over to first base. They get narrower
when they were going to home plate. So it always
looked for wide and narrow kind of keys from my
runners at first base. So there's other things to look at.
You know, left handed pitcher could be a little bit
(39:47):
more nasty or difficult to ascertain when he was coming over.
So these are the kind of things that would help
running game. We're talking about pitch selection specifically. Yeah, there's
some guys. I know that Wes Western could do it
from the dugout, and he did it a lot from
first base when he was the first base coach for
the Giants, for Willie Mays and William McCovey calling pitches
and home runs.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
It's an art. It's an art for him. Not everybody
can do it.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
I think the seed of doubt when you could put
that in another team's heads and all of a sudden
you make them trying to become more covert and increase
the number of signs are giving. It can lead to
confusion things like that. There's there's all these little games
going on within the game. So yes, long answer, put
him back in the box. As a coach, you got
to really learn how to if you if you've been
(40:29):
good at this, you got to like readjust your sites
and figure out how to do it from not being
so far down the line. Some guys, like a catcher
sometimes puts his signs so low you could see his
fingers poking out from underneath, and you can see if
he wiggles or not.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Rs.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
There's all kinds of stuff going on there that really
good guys are able to pick up on.
Speaker 4 (40:47):
So but there is a danger involved.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
There is a danger involved, and maybe the danger alone
should prevent guys from looking at the picture and nuts
and need to look more at to hitter at the
home at home plate.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah, I'm okay with keeping these guys in the box.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Like I said, They've got all these analysts now looking
at video trying to determine what the tails are. To picture,
the coach goes in there with that information and then
he tries to, you know, wander down the line, peer
into the glove, whatever, and pick that up and then
relay it. I'd read much rather keep the game in
the hands of the players. But Joe, give our listeners
an idea. If if I'm coaching first base and I
(41:24):
do see something, how can I relay it to the hitter?
Is a matter of simply you know, hands on knees
or hands on hip off speed fastball something.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
Yeah, it could be, Yes, it could be something that easy.
It could be like I said, standing up, like like
you're saying, bend over, hands on knees. It could be
like just the way he turns his body, just the
way he has his head. I mean, he could actually
be looking away from home plate intentionally or looking at
home plate intentionally. And looking at home plate intentionally might
be he doesn't know and looking away means I got it,
(41:56):
and that.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
Could mean something specifically. It's very it's very easy to do.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
I mean, like, how about for my coaches, my signs
for for me to my third base coach for years,
was I would put it. I would put on an
active sign and then put it on hold. In other words,
i'd put the hit and run on sign on a
zero zero account, and of course I was not doing
that on that particular account, so I'd put a hold
sign on. So I would put this sign active sign
on on the first pitch, and then I would put
(42:22):
it on hold so that I could disguise my signs
moving further into the at bat. So I would give
Tom Foley the sign and I would put it on hold,
and then he would look in on the next pitch
and I might be talking to my bench coach, but
I didn't put it back on hold. That means the
sign became active. Really a way to disguise your signs
(42:42):
from the bench to the field, where the other side,
if they're really trying to look at you, as somebody
analytically trying to look at you, they're going, damn, he
didn't do anything on that one. I got all that
from Gene Mock. How about that. Gene taught me that
back in the eighties. So there's so many different ways
to disguise what you're doing, and it actually could change.
Kyle Ripken used to call pitches from short stop. He
(43:05):
used to call all the pictures for the Orioles pitchers
through like when Hoyles was the catcher, and he had
all these different methods of moving and sometimes I think
I had it, and then he would change during the
course of the game.
Speaker 4 (43:14):
And that's what you could do.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
You could change the key during the course of the game,
very subtly. So that's what makes it difficult. It could
be something the easiest thing in the world if you're
looking at the guy. But if it's that subtle and
you could change it that easily, then.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
You really don't know. And when you don't know for sure.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
To relay a sign to anybody becomes problematic because at
the time you're wrong all of a sudden, people whose
trust in the in the in the sign giver.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Yeah, that's that's always the downside, right when you're wrong.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Reminds me.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Greg Maddox back in the day, was pitching against the
Giants and for some reason they thought they had his
pitches and there would be whistling from the dugout when
he threw his change up. Maddix figured this out and actually,
I forget who his catcher was at the time figured
out we're going to cross him up, and whatever they
were donning, they led the Giants to believe it was
(44:05):
going to be a change up. He had the whistle,
Eddie threw a fastball in buzz the guy off the plate.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
So that's the downside.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
What do you think you have the signs and someone's
onto you having the signs, it could be dangerous.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
He'd be really dangerous. And that's that's the whole thing
about it.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
There are certain guys that are really, really good at this,
and there's also the guys that cry wolf all the time.
I got him, I got him, I got I got it,
I got him.
Speaker 4 (44:29):
I understand, you know.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
And you hear that all the time too, which becomes annoying.
So I've been around some really good signed Steelers. Jimmy
Edmonds was good, Eddie Eddie Perez was really good.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
Like I said, was.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
I sat next to West Western for years as a
scout at Packard Stadium when I was in the nineteen eighties,
and he would call pitches from we were sitting up
in the stands. He's scotten for the Braves, I'm with
the Angels, and he would call like Kenda Carter's pitches.
I think I've talked about this before, and it was
uncanny how he could pick up on I don't know,
stuff that he saw that I could really could not
(45:01):
slow down enough to pick up on it enough. So
it is an art form. It should be part of
the game. Sign stealing should be part of the game.
It is part of the game. I'm talking about the
old fashioned way through observation.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
I was taught by.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Preston Gomez to steal signs from a third base coach,
to always watch where he goes with this first touch.
I used to actually mark down first touches all season long.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
I'd have a.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Chart with the body on it and I'd put a
dot dot where did he start, and if he started
there and there was action, I would circle that. That
was Preston Gomez's information to me in order to do that.
So these are the kind of things that were passed
down for years, and I went through a period in
the late nineties.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
I got kind of lucky.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
I got on a street and it was all because
I'm talking about pitching out at the right time, which
nobody does anymore. But that was all through Preston's information.
To me. And again, it's a beautiful part of the game.
I'm not talking about utilizing technology. I'm talking about guys
getting lazy in regards to their sign giving and it
makes it somewhat easier for the other time to pick
(46:04):
up on it. And that is an art form and
that should be part of the game.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Yeah, absolutely love that part of the game. Inside baseball,
truly inside baseball. We've reached ourt ninth inning. Joe, it's
time to hand you the ball. Now, what do you
got for us this time? To end this episode of
the Book of Joe.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
You know, I was just thinking about the season itself,
and then I was thinking about the game itself. I mean,
you know, playing it every day of the game, within
the game, the August twelfth, May seventeenth, to whatever the day,
and then again here comes twenty twenty six. Though no
one can go back and make a brand new start,
anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending.
(46:41):
You know, you always get caught up intemniu whether you start,
you know, two three bogies in a row, then all
of a sudden you get on a nice roll. So
you can't necessarily make a brand new start. But if
you process the information well. And if you're able to
slow things down, I have enough confidence in yourself and
with the process and your and your culture of what
you're doing, you could create a brand new ending. And
(47:02):
that's I kind of like that. I think you have
to really UH teams have to understand that.
Speaker 4 (47:08):
UH.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
Players have to understand on a daily basis. Just in
the game, oh for three, first three at bats, that
doesn't mean the fourth that bat is going to be
oh for four. Go to the batting cage or batting
practice before the game. God, I feel horrible. Nothing feels right.
And you go in the game and get two or
three Knox pitchers come out of the bullpen.
Speaker 4 (47:26):
What do they got? They got?
Speaker 3 (47:27):
He had nothing, man, he had nothing down there, And
all of a sudden you're shaking his hand in the
ninth inning walking off the mound. So it starts one thing,
But you gotta always create. And I'm a big I'm
big into good starts, and I'm talking about that for
the season. But when things don't always go your way
in the beginning, make a better ending. And I think
(47:47):
it really pertains to the game itself on a daily basis,
and it pertains to the season. You know, you're reading
about teams that have opportunity right now those who do not.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
We just talked about the Angels.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
How do I create a great start and if I
can't seasons in progress, how do I create a better ending?
And again that comes down to culture, the ability to
make adjustments on the fly, all the things that really
helped Dodgers last year, you know, pedestrian in a sense,
and eventually looked.
Speaker 4 (48:14):
What they did at the end.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
It just if you really have mental toughness, this is
this is a concept you would understand.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
I love that concept. I've not heard that before, Joe.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
That really, when you think about it, you have one
opportunity to get off to a great start, but you
have numerous opportunities to forge a great ending.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
And he just made me think when you mentioned the Dodgers.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
I was just talking to Miguel Rojas in spring training
and he talked about, you know, leading up to that
Game seven home run, of course, he hadn't played in
three weeks, hadn't started the game in three weeks, and
after Game five the Dodgers lose their one loss.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Away from being eliminated.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
He sat in the dugout for twenty minutes after the game,
and he told me the reason he did that was
because he thought that was the end of his career
and that would be the last time he would wear
those Dodger whites. And he has love being a Dodger,
there's no doubt about that. So for twenty minutes he
just reflected on his career and just didn't want to
(49:10):
take one of the wait as long as he could
to take off his whites, Dodger white home uniform, one
of the classic uniforms in all of baseball. Finally, he
gets back to his locker and there's a text on
his phone and it's from Dave Roberts, and the text says,
you're in there at second base for Game six. And
as I said, Dave Roberts said, there was no way
(49:31):
he could live with himself losing the World Series without
giving one of his glue guys a chance to start
a World Series game. And the guy winds up saving
their season with completely unexpected home run in the bottom
of the nineth inning of Game seven of the World Series.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Just crazy stuff.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
I love the fact that the manager trusted his gut
at that point and more than paid off.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
In Game seven, I.
Speaker 3 (49:54):
Just love the antithetical analytical player right there. I mean,
the guy that just is a baseball guy probably doesn't
fit too many analysis really well well other than his defense,
which is really and he listening as a clutch hit
or two.
Speaker 4 (50:07):
And he I just think he's a good baseball player.
I loved him in Miami. I thought, damn, this guy.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
He's the kind of guy that if you have him
on a daily basis, you really do appreciate it. It's
great that Dave David chose that moment to shift gears,
you know, necessarily, and it's awesome. I just I just
love when real baseball works, and real baseball worked for
the Dodgers last year.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
Great stuff, Joe. We'll see you next time on the
Book of Joe.
Speaker 4 (50:36):
See your brother, Thanks man.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
The Book of.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Joe podcast is a production of iHeart Radio. For more
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