April 28, 2026 • 52 mins
Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci begin with the Red Sox parting ways with Alex Cora. Tom explains what led to the decision and the moves that played a big part. What are Cora's options moving forward with a couple other teams possibly looking for change? Tom notes a growing trend in the league that is adding time and a different strategy for pitchers. Plus, we honor the passing of legendary rocker Dave Mason.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Aaron, Welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcast.
It's me Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe. It's surprising,
(00:24):
but we have our first managerial firing of the twenty
twenty sixth season. It's surprising because it's Alex Cora of
the Boston Red Sox.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
A lot of people didn't see this one coming.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
It won't get into this, Joe, but first I want
to get your first reactions. I happen to be in
Boston when the Yankees swept them, and I thought something
was up. I had no way I thought about a firing,
but Alex has always been very honest and direct.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Seemed a little bit back on his heels.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Obviously a team not playing well at all, and they
were overmatched quite frankly by the Yankees net series. So
it in retrospect, it didn't catch me off guard because
of how bad they were playing, but because Alex has
been a World Series winning manager. Yes, I was surprised,
So give me your first, your gut reaction.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I was surprised also, I mean again, I'm not didn't
have the privy to actually seeing it and feeling it
like you did. But you know, I thought Alex is,
you know, considered one of the better managers in the
game right now.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
I had plenty of experience.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
And the thing I didn't know, I don't understand is
that the dynamic between him and his front office there,
that's really what comes down to the the patience and
the relationship. Relationship then equals patients, I think within that
kind of a structure. So not I really don't know
that I know working against him. I know my conversations
(01:46):
with him. I've seen him on television. I think he
does a wonderful job of explaining his thoughts, and his thoughts.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Are good ones, so that there's there's that.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
But then again, like I'm saying, how does how did
him and Breslo get along? And and again, Alex is
a guy of experience and baseball acumen. He's Puerto Rican
and I've talked about this before before. All my Puerto
Rican brothers are really sharp baseball wise, So he's not
the kind of guy you push around.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
I guess That's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
So I don't know exactly how that would come down
between front office and him, And then on top of that,
it just seems with the purging completely not unlike what
I went through in Anaheim in a sense, because I
thought on the day that I was let go, I
thought Perry's coming there to elect fire several coaches and
talk to me about it.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
But it wasn't the case.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
So I was wondering if, like even maybe they wanted
to get rid of some of the coaches in Boston,
and he kind of pushed back, possibly again not knowing
that for sure. And on top of that, I talk
about this just on an MLB network. He was not
hired by Breslo, and that makes it easier for the
GAM with the front office to disconnect at that point,
whereas if they were the guys that had hired him,
(03:02):
with the mess with mendoz In and Robbie Thompson with Nembroski,
which are the other places that people are talking about,
more difficult or more patients involved when you have the
hiring process being in house. So there's a lot of
all this little, these smaller dynamic moments going on here
that play into all of this. But I also knowing
(03:24):
Alex a little bit and where he comes from, I
believe he would stay stand up for what he believed in,
and he would stand up for his coaching staff. So
I think that was part of what we saw a
current in Boston a couple of days ago.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Well, I think you're dead on. You saw the coaching
staff pretty much was decimated. It wasn't just getting rid
of the manager. So I think you're right about that.
Alex is a smart baseball guy. I very much agree
with you, and I think he wasn't in line with
not so much a personality clash, but some of the
philosophies of the front office. Remember this is a team
that dove into what they called run prevention emphasis in
(04:01):
the off season. Basically, what that means is they weren't
spending big money to keep people like Alex Bragman or
go out and get a Pete Alonzo, so they kind
of tinkered around the edges. I think they put a
little too much faith and confidence in some of their
young players turning a corner quickly. Quite frankly, it's not
a well constructed team. I thought all along they had
to move either Jaron Duran or Masataka Yoshida in the offseason.
(04:25):
They have five outfielders, four of whom bat left handed,
and it's just asking the manager too much to make
it work. Because you've seen someone like Duran, who's a
good player, who's got a little bit backward because let's
face it, Alex was trying to get playing time for
all of these hitters and he just can't do it,
you know, the pitching staff or a team built on
(04:47):
run prevention. To me, the starting rotation isn't good enough
to win that way. Brian Bao has been wildly inconsistent
in his career ERA plus under one hundred, so he's
been below average pitcher. Suddy Gray has been an average
pitcher the last couple of years. I like Sunny Gray
a lot, but he's not going to pitch toward the
front of a rotation anymore. And he's now on the
(05:08):
il thirty six year old guy. You get that also
with the injury risk with an older pitcher. So to me,
I look at that offense Joe, and I don't think
it's going to get much better.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I really don't.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Are they this bad their bottom three offensive team when
they fired Alex? I probably not, but there's not enough
power in the lineup for me. Yoshida is not a
number three hitter. Wilson Interres not a number four hitter.
Trevor story with the Red Sox in five years is
an on base percentage under three hundred. So they asked
a lot of Roman Anthony to be really good right
(05:43):
away at the age of twenty one. It hasn't happened.
That was a really big ask for him to be
a franchise player. There's a little bit of a leadership
vacuum because there's not a lot of you know, the
Bregman types who are gonna be the glue guys and
also one of the best players. I just think it's
a very low ceiling team, Joe. I think the front
office overrated this team. I think Alex wanted to go
(06:05):
a different direction in some cases with players, maybe place
to Don Rafael at second base to get all those
five outfielders in the line at the same time.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
But they have to play Marcelo Meyer figure out if
he could hit or not. Jaed Durman and has.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
You know, pitchers kind of figured him out at the
end of last season and he's really struggled. It's very common,
as you know, Joe, they go to places like Boston,
New York, Philly and you're replacing someone like Bregman too
much pressure early on. You know, he was booed in
the first game at Fenway Park before he played a
game at Fenway as a Red Sox.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
He got booted in the intros.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So all those things add up, and I think that
front off has probably overrated this team a little bit.
They definitely underperformed. Alex does have some blame. I'll go
back to the Devers deal. You know, I don't think
he communicated well and made that worked out.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
They actually had to move Devers.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
I'm not knocking them for trading him, but the way
he was handled, you know, it was very poor when they.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Did sign Alex Bregman and just.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Didn't know what to do, or at least publicly didn't
announce a clear plan. So a lot of things in
play here, Joe, but I can see why they made
the move.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I like the idea of Chad Tracy.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
He basically has had almost half this roster here in
the minor leagues, so he knows the abilities, the talents.
There's not a big transition here. It reminds me a
little bit of Don Kelly taking over to Pirates last year,
and look where they're doing this year. Going further back,
Davey Johnson getting a Mets team that was ready to
win with some young players. He had all those guys
(07:33):
in Triple A and Tide Water before he took over
the Mets job in eighty four. So I can see
both ends of this. But again I'm not high. I'm
not buying Red Sox stock right now. I think they'll
play better only because it's hard to be worse, but
I think the ceiling is limited.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yeah, first of all, you know you're talking about those outfields,
that outfield situation. I went through the same thing with
the Cubbies as we had five at half Almore and
Schwerber to play in the outfield and then Jason Heyward
and Dexter Follower. We're going to be like the stalwarts
or they're going to play often. So to get all
those at bats like Halp, More Schwerber because at that
(08:13):
time at the Hys we did use Schwarbs a bit
for that also, but to get all these guys involved,
Halp was playing some second base. I think they all
ended up with four and fifty plate appearances or more
in one season, and that to me, it was like
when I look back on that I was like, Wow,
how did that happen? That we were able to do that?
So I know it's not easy to get that many
played appearances for that many young outfielders because they're not
(08:34):
going to be happy when they're not playing. Trust me,
many conversations I had to have in that moment, but
it's true. It makes it very difficult just just jumping along.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Again. You're a couple things there. The acquisitional process. Again.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
You know, Alex is wearing it right now and his
coaching staff is wearing it right now.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
But you've just described completely and accurately the.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Acquisitional process that's in place, and that never gets blamed
for the disconnector or what's going on on the field.
The fact that Durbin would get booeds so early on
first day with introductions, that's kind of crazy, but again,
that's really what it comes down to. And nobody ever
dissects that enough because obviously the blame's going to always
(09:19):
ends up on the field somewhere. But I'm here to
tell you a lot of times and many times it
does occur before that, and that's really where great scouting
and having not necessarily unified voice because you don't want
a unified voice when it comes acquiring talent. You need
dissenting opinions in regards to making the right choices when
(09:40):
looking under the hood.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
And it just can't be analytically driven. I think it again.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
We talk about the field as being balanced, I think
off the field needs to be balanced with actual eyeballs combined.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
With analytical information.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
So the acquisitional process was flawed here, and then of
course Alex and the staff pay the price. Now having
said all that, I do like Chad Tracy a lot.
I was with them with the Angels very briefly. I
think it was a field coordinator, and and he was
let go abruptly, and I was kind of like shocked
because my conversations with him I thought were really good
and I liked he's a very good communicator, he's very sharp.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
I know his daddy, Jimmy, very well.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Jimmy and I go back in the eighties and the
minor leagues, and so we've known each other for a
long time.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
But regardless of that, I.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Liked the way chat race he spoke, and I liked
his baseball acumen also, and I liked his methods and
really sharp just the way he put one on one together.
I really liked it a lot, so that was kind
of interesting to me. And I didn't even realize he
was in waiting, but I liked that. But last point,
(10:43):
a lot of this seems to have been choreographed before.
Obviously this moment of recurred, meaning that it's early in
the season. I would almost bet this was talked about
in spring training. I know they had a decent year
last year, the Red Sox did, but the two prior
to that were not so good. And you just described
the turmoil from last year with the Devers thing, and
I'm glad you brought because I kind of forgot about that.
(11:05):
So this has been brewing for a bit, all of
this dissension in a sense, so all this stuff when
you when you combine it all together, kind of makes sense.
But at the end of the day, I will I
will defend field personnel over analytical personnel because they're the
ones that really need to be answering for the port
play of these players right now more than the field
(11:26):
staff needs to.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Well said, you know, and over the last five years,
by the way, the Red Sox have the worst record
in the American League East. Okay, this is uh you know,
I don't want to say it's a free fall because
it's not that because they didn't make the postseason last year.
But they've had some down years here and the consistency
we got used to with the Red Sox for a
(11:48):
while just hasn't been there. So here's the question now,
is what does Alex Korra do next. You mentioned Philadelphia
and New York Mets. Those managers are on the hot seats,
simple as that, for the same reason the Red Sox
made a move. When you pay, you know, you have
a payroll at this this is the top six payrolls
(12:09):
we're talking about here with these three teams, and you're
charging the prices that you do. The worst thing, and
I've had you know, owners tell me this, the worst
thing is you're out of contention before school lets out,
when the walk up crowds begin to take shape. Nobody
wants to go see a boring team. And the Red
Sox were a boring team in that series against the Yankees.
(12:30):
They couldn't even sell out Fenway against the Yankees. And
I get it. It was a school night, it's April,
the weather was cold. All those things in the past,
those things didn't matter. But worst of all, there was
no buzz about that team. There was nobody in the
line that you wanted to see as the lineup turned over,
like who's coming up next inning? And that Teams just
can't have that this early in the season because you
(12:50):
get no momentum in the summer months. And the Mets
and the Phillies are on the precipice of being that
kind of a team.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
You could say it's early, but it's not that.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
If you just check the records, teams that play under
three ninety and April three ninety Baseball, well, only seven
times in the wildcard era have they made the postseason.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
So they're on the precipice here.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
And you've got Dobrawski, who obviously has a history with
Alex core in Boston, with Red Sox running.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Things in Philly.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
You've got the New York Mets situation where they already
made changes on the staff in this past offseason. They've
been a brutal offensive team. I mean terrible every underlying number.
I like managers in both places. I'm just telling you
you know this, Joe. The reality of the business is
what you can do at this point. You can't make trades. Really,
(13:38):
you don't see major trades this time of year. It's
hard to change your personnel. It's a lot easier just
to change the manager.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Yes, if in fact Alex where to go somewhere else,
even one of these two places. But even before we
go there, I do like Mendoza and I do like Robbie,
that would just be once again, you got a different
voice press conference when they talked about having a different voice,
and that would be it. There'd be no other really
good reason. These guys have proven to be very competent
(14:06):
in their very recent past, and they are both have
great bedside manners, both running game extremely well. And I've
not been in their company in a clubhouse, but I
could watch them a distance. I read and I like
the way both of them talk. I like their interviews postgame.
I mean, they cannot be more calm, and they cannot
be more precise in regards to what they're saying, and
(14:26):
you know, for my sensibilities, I like what they say
and how they say it. Having said all that, if
in fact, let's just say Dobrawski went with Core because
of the reasons you mentioned there, If anybody wants to
hire Alex right now anybody whoever that might be. First
of all, he's gonna be hired by that front office,
(14:47):
So there's this long leash automatically put in place.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Number one, number two, he would need to be left
alone a bit.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I mean, these teams, if you're going to bring somebody
new in, then back off a little bit. Let this
new person come in there and incorporate his belief system
a bit, because obviously what you guys have been doing
there is not working necessarily very well.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
And again I'm not attacking anybody.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
I'm telling you the analytical departments in these places obviously
have not done a very good job in regards to
You're just talking about this setup, whether it's Boston or
in Philadelphia. Right now, leave the new manager alone a bit,
and if you're going to hire him, let him be
him in regards to whether he wants a themed road
trip or a different report times or whatever. Leave this
guy alone, let him manage the game that will manage
(15:33):
his team, and see if that permits an assension that
you're looking for. So hire him and then leave him alone,
empower him, be there for him. Of course, continue to
supply information, but permit this guy to make an impact,
and everybody needs to believe as though they can make
an impact on a daily basis at work in order
(15:53):
to get the best out of that person. So again
the last one that was, permit a different daily approach.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Everybody wants choreography right now.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Just all these teams because they're trying to develop on
a major league level and not doing such a good
job on a minor league level. They have these elaborate
pregame practices and they got guys there way too early,
and you see all of this stuff going on. This
stuff used to happen in instructional league double eight a ball,
double a triple, et cetera. And now it's happening on
(16:23):
the major league level. And I to me, it's just
senseless because you see all these teams right now.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
Many teams are striving to be five hundred. That should never.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Be the goal to be five under. The goal is
to be part of the dance at the end of
the year. And all these there's so many teams that
is trying to be five hundred. So permit a different
daily approach. Permit who remember this guy is you're bringing it,
Permit him to be able to make an impact. Support
him but stead of his way, and the lease will
be longer, just naturally because you've hired him and not
(16:53):
someone else. All these factors. If you're going to do it,
permit it to happen. Don't just tire somebody and they
bring him back in there and have the group come
down the group thing, come down stairs, start presenting these
volumes of information, all this redundancy that really has very
little impact to the day. It does, and I'm here
to tell you it doesn't.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
It's more.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
It's more impactful putting things together in the offseason than
on a daily approach. Once you're a manager in the
league for a bit, you know the other team, you
understand what they're like, you know what the manager thinks,
you know what the organization thinks. So your prep is
is kind of consistent. The biggest reason why you need
extraordinary help on a for pert series is when they
do when they bring somebody in, or if a manager
(17:35):
gets fired and all of a sudden, when you're when
you're when you're going over the red sox, Now, yeah,
you need more information right now because you got a
new skipper in there. So these are the kind of
things that I think are overstated overblown more too much
credit given to and not enough given credit given to
Possibly we talked about it analog baseball. Let the game
be played. Let the manager do his job, but the
(17:55):
coaches do their jobs. You're there to support them, not
to do their jobs.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Oh, you just nailed it, Joe, because how many times
we've heard that when changes are made and the Red
Sox did this as well. You hear this executive speak
about we need a new voice, or we need I.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Love this one. We need to go in a different direction.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Right, we love our manager, he did a great job,
but we need to go in a different direction. And
then they hire somebody and they don't allow that person
to do things differently.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
So it's a very inconsistent message.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
But twenty seven games into the season, Alex Cora is gone.
Back in the day, I actually was there covering the
Yankees when Yogi Barrow was canned sixteen games into the season.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
That's not the earliest firing ever.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Phil Garner with the two thousand and two Tigers was
gone after an oh and six start, and so is
Cal Ripkins Senior in nineteen eighty eight when the Orioles
got off to that brutal start they were also oh
and six, but Joe, that's not even the record six
games spring training nineteen fifty four Chicago Cubs. Phil Cavaretta
(19:09):
is the manager. They're coming off an eighty nine lost season,
seventh place in an eighteen league, and at the end
of March in spring training, he had the audacity to say, well,
we're probably a second division club. It's a phrase you
don't hear anymore, but basically the second half of the league.
And Phil Wrigley, the owner, didn't like it, fired him
(19:31):
in spring.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Training for being honest.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I love that. I guess what.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
The fifty four Cubs lost ninety game and finished at
seventh place.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Again, that is so good that you missed those days.
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yes, you speak your mind.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
And to be honest, it's beautiful, It's great. It's the
best way to get fired.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
He called it as he saw it. He was write,
I love that stuff. Well, I can't wait to ask
Joe this question.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Would you or your pitching coach call pitches from the
dugout in Major League Baseball? Because it's going on now, folks,
we'll dive into that right after this.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
On the Book of Joe.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Welcome back to the book with Joe, I mentioned calling
pitches from the dugout. Joe, the Marlins and the Rockies
both do this. Now I believe there's other teams that
do this, maybe not on an every pitch basis, but
certain situations. YE see the catcher looking in a lot
and I know they're looking in a lot of times
for signs or you know, defensive plays with runners on base.
(20:48):
But there is sort of a check and balance on
catcher game calling pitcher game calling. And I bring this
up and we're gonna get into this in a minute
show because the games this year are six minutes longer
than they were through the same point of last season.
I'll get into that in a minute, but first I
(21:08):
want you to address this issue of the Marlins and
the Rockies calling pitches. And by the way, both of
those teams, if you compare their eras this April off
the last April, they're much more than one full run
lower eras this year.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
So it's working.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
And when things work in baseball, what happens other teams
copy it. I think we may see more of this.
Give me your thoughts, Joe.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Well, is it because their pitching is just better too?
I mean, do they have better arms, do they have
more experienced arms? I mean, you know, the Rockies have
got like this killer bullpen all of a sudden with
big arms, So I mean you got to consider that
also when you say that nineteen eur the nineteen eighties
and mid eighties, Jim Wing was the pitching coach University
of Arizona and Jerry Kindall as the manager, and I
(21:56):
would watch these games as a Scott Joe mcgrahan was there,
Scott Erickson was there. There are some like big arms man,
and I'm watching every pitch being called from the dugout.
I'm quite frankly. I even wrote him my report that
I thought that McGrain primarily would do better in pro
ball because he'd be able to use his fastball more often.
It was just like breaking ball crazy. It's like that,
and all of stuff between fingers. I always wanted twos
(22:17):
and threes put down. So this is nothing new, It's
just more obvious now. It's just another aspect of joystick
baseball and the fact that eventually you might see headsets
from upstairs down to the dugout at some point, and
again just call it as it is. Managers will become
middle managers and paid to such or like a head
(22:38):
coach as opposed to a manager. So this is yes,
I could see it happening.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
I'm not in agreement with it.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Again, it's just if you really want all of that,
then just put the uniform on yourself. Stop sitting upstairs,
come sit downstairs. You don't need all these other people.
You come and do this, because that's really what it's
evolving into. Yes, though I do believe there's times to
look into the dugout and have a pitch. We've talked
about him a thousand times, Mike Borsello had with the Cubs.
(23:09):
If you were to get a job, if I were
to get a job as a manager, again, just as
a conjecture, whatever the first guy would hire is Borzelo,
or try to hire, maybe Mike Borzello. I've talked about
other teams getting borselloed, and the Indians did on the
last out of the World Series in twenty sixteen. He
knew that Martinez could not hit a curveball, or if
he did put in a play be like hitting won
twenty five yees.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
So we had this gig going on.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
The catchers would always peek in if they needed something
from Borzy in a hot moment. It wasn't like all
the time, You're not going to feel the game as
a catcher, and it's really going to ruin the rhythm
of everything. You were constantly looking in there. Although I
guess they got it down. Obviously it's working somehow right now,
but just told on it might not be working when
the pitchers aren't throwing so well. But I like the
idea of being able to look in in a hot
(23:54):
moment when you're not sure. There's not a thing wrong
with that. So that's how I would set it up.
That's how I would like it. But you have to
have somebody like Borsello sitting over there that really knows
what's going on, as dissected the other team completely and
has a great feel for the picture our pitcher in
that moment, their hitter in that moment, and what works
and what does work?
Speaker 4 (24:15):
And he did.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
I mean, I've watched it is it was meticulous, and
it was It was simple yet meticulous and all the
best ways. So I'm not into it every pitch. I'm
not into all this interference. I'm not into joystick baseball.
I'm not into headset baseball. But I am into utilizing
bench people coaches of course, because that's their job, and
(24:37):
having a method of communicating. Like for instance, I never
wanted our catchers to put a sign on a first
and third situation. You know, guys walk out in front
and they'll like to start tapping their chest or whatever.
I started this years ago where I wanted that sign
to come from the bench because I didn't want to
alert other people to what we were going to possibly do.
(24:57):
Because actually I would want to watch catchers give signs
to know if they're throwing through or throwing a third base,
if they stepp that in front of the plate.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
This is something that goes back forever.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
So you always had signs coming from the bench to
the field. I always wanted signs covering or not covering
who should cover a second base. If you need some help,
look in there, movement look in there, and you're gonna
have a coach moving people around. But nobody notices this
kind of stuff. That's how I like my information coming
from the bench to the field. There are times it's necessary,
(25:29):
it should not be all the time, because when that is,
the players start thinking for themselves. You start becoming too
reliant on everybody else. It's like your kids growing up.
You want them to be able to think for themselves.
They can't always rely on you. And it absolutely applies
to a baseball game.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, that's the part that bothers me the most.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
And I'm all for, you know, in a hot moment,
as you said, asking for some help.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
But obviously this is being data driven.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
We all know that, of course, of course you know.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
And it probably won't be long until we see the
pitching coach or whoever's calling the pitches.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
It's going to be a probably a job in the.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Future, you know, pitching coach caller in the dugout, who's
not even a pitching coach. We're going to see them
probably with a PitchCom device and plugging it, pushing the buttons,
and the catcher and pitcher they all hear it.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Why not go right directly there.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
I'm not a big fan of anything that takes away
the players centric competition of baseball, such as when bas
coaches are stealing signs based on tells of the pitcher
and relaying them to the runner around second relaying to
the hitter. I don't even like defenders with laminated defensive
cards in their pocket telling them where to play. Why
you're removing all the thought of what it takes to
(26:40):
play baseball and to decide competition based on the abilities
and that includes the intellect and mental side of it
of the players on the field. So the more the
game is decided between the white lines, the more I'm
in favor of it. That's why I don't like the
idea of the pitching coach calling all the pitches or
whoever's in the dugout. The other thing to look at here,
and this is it's going to sound like nitpicking, but
(27:03):
I mentioned that games are six minutes longer. The Rockies
games this year are taking a second and a half
more per pitch than they did last year, and that's
because there's now a second relay going on with signs. Right,
Instead of catcher to pitcher, we're going coach to catcher
to pitcher. And you said, what's the big deal, it's
(27:25):
just a second and a half.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
What is that.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Well, in the course of a game, with two hundred
and ninety four pitches being thrown, half of those by
the Rockies, it adds up to between three and four minutes.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
And again you're saying, well, that's not a lot.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
But these things start adding up, and that's what's happening
to time of game. And I've got the numbers, and
we're talking about through the same point of last year,
four hundred and twenty one games, and there's five more
pitches per game than it was last year. Part of
this because we went to abs pretty much new you
were get more walks, and walks forth well tremendously early on.
(28:01):
It's sort of leveled out on strikeouts are up to
that is flattened out, so strikeouts are about the same,
but walks are up, but any case, five more pitches.
What we're seeing now is pitchers have learned how to
use the pitch timer as a tool. I don't know
how many times I'd seen it, where you know, the
batter has to be set in the box with eight
(28:22):
seconds left. The pitcher is smart enough now to be
looking at that clock, not at the catcher or the
target until it gets down to about too So now
you've got the batter standing there in the box. And
I actually think the guys who have their hands up
high and rigid are at a disadvantage in the box
because you might stand there for eight seconds before the
(28:44):
pitch is on the way. That is an eternity in
a batter's box. But in any case, pitchers who first
with the pitch timer had to hurry because nobody wanted
a violation. They've learned the timing of it now, so
they're holding the ball longer.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
So that adds up.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Hitters have gotten used to the pitch timer and the
challenge system because now the challenges by the hitters per
game have gone up every year, and I'm talking about timeouts.
I'm sorry, timeouts by the hitters have gone up every year.
It was fourteen last year, it's sixteen this year. They've
gotten used to it. So guys are getting used to
(29:20):
the timer and the challenge system. Bottom line, Joe, is
these all add up. You're talking about five more pitches,
two more challenges by batters. The ABS system has added
sixty three seconds.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Four challenges per game averages about you know, fifteen to
twenty seconds, but six minutes have been added to the
time of game because people have learned to play under
these rules now. But I do think in a very
small way that's saying this is adding up, but in
a small way, you know, the second level of relaying
pitches from the dugout is also slowing the game down.
(29:54):
I can tell you Baseball is not happy about it
because you look at this direction and I kind of
alluded to this earlier Joe copycat league. You're probably going
to see more teams doing this.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Are they going to add seconds off the pitchclock to
the hurry things up? I mean that would be the
sounds like the natural.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Well they did that after the first year because they
found out that, you know, the pitches were being thrown
with like five to eight seconds left in the clock.
They're like, we don't need all this time, So they
did chop it down from twenty to eight from twenty
to eighteen. But no matter where you put it, I
think pitchers will learn what to deal with that. They're
not in a hurry so much anymore.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Well, they're talking about the hitter.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
And I have actually had this thought because I rarely
have noticed that pitchers are being thrown like two seconds.
I was watching Max Reid, I think a little bit
last night I would get down to two seconds, and
I did, I thought, where's the pitch clock? Are these
guys actually looking at the pitch clock? Obviously it's got
to be back there where they can see it, and
you're right. I was my being a former hitting coach,
(30:50):
and my thought was, always, Okay, the hitter gets stuck.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
You get stuck in.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
This position, limited timeouts, can't step out, all that kind
of stuff. What I used to do with some hitters
in this situation, because you know, back then, guys could
take as long as they want. When when a picture's
in the wind up, I asked my hitters to like,
you know, kind of like create a pendulum with the
bat on the bottom, like just back and forth, back
and forth, because then he could come back up and
(31:14):
get it set as he started his delivery. A little
bit different when the picture's out of the stretch, because
the picture could come set and come quickly, he could
come set and hold it. So there was always a
timing issue when the picture was out of the stretch
compared to when he was out of the wind up.
Jeff Capilla, just a name back from the Blast from
the Past, double a hitter, big guy. He'd get stuck.
(31:34):
He'd get stuck too long. And when he gets stuck
too long, it would it would mess up his timing.
So I think the next level would be something to
that effect, the hitter is going to have to kind
of unplug for a bit somehow or alter what he's doing. Again,
when a picture's out of the wind up, it's easier
to do something differently to not get stuck in one
position too long. But when the pictures out of the stretch,
(31:56):
it becomes a little bit more difficult. Again, these are
the kind of adjustments that have to be made. You're
you know, you're making me think about things from the
past that are pretty much it's the same, but different,
different because now we have a clock. Actually they controlled
same because here as we get stuck in the past
for the same reasons. So it's kind of interesting when
you're and again last point, when you're talking about this
and liquor for the next inefficiency in a sense, where
(32:17):
where's the next a little bit of a time work
that we haven't really noticed yet. We're a team or
a picture, whoever's going to be able to take advantage
of it? Is there anything left to be taking advantage
of that? Nobody's thought about the unintended consequences which obvious.
See this is and and then what do you do
to rectify it?
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Is? Is it necessary to rectify it? Like you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
If MLB is not into it, maybe there is going
to be another subtraction of time. But it'd be curious
to see how this plays out down the road. And
it is interesting how competitors always find the glitch given
and given time an opportunity.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
How about the idea of not permitting signs talking about
signs for the pictures to be called from the dugout.
It would be very hard to adjudicate. Well, I don't
know how you guard against it. But if Baseball doesn't
like the idea of the coaches calling the pitches, could
they actually come up with a rule to ban that.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
That'd be hard, I mean, how or it goes like
you had kind of insinuated to the next level is
just to call the pitch from the dugout via the like,
as opposed to the catcher pushing the button whatever the
whoever this caller is pushes the button.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
Again, I'm not into that.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
I still believe it could be handled in a very
expeditious way from the bench in the field. And again,
if you're if you're wanting to call every pitch, you're right,
it can be tedious and it's gonna it's gonna continue
to be this way. I still believe the better way
to do it is occasionally, but unless you're in charge
of the situation, and like again, your suggestion is accurate.
(33:55):
The more success noticed by other groups, the more they're
going to want to do it themselves. It's incredible how
there is a copycat component of this. And the last
point with this, wait, wait just a little bit. Okay,
these teams have been successful in the short term, the
Marlins and the Rockies. Let's just find out how much
is it because a conscio is better this year and
(34:15):
the bullpen of the Rockies are much better this year.
And just wait a little bit before we come there
any conclusions on this.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
I guess maybe I'm just too old school here, Joe
and as we talk about analog baseball and leaning that way,
but it just bothers me that these are major league
pitchers and catchers and the game gets completely taken out
of their hands. What about the pitcher who feels like,
you know today, I feel really strong, I feel really
good about my fastball, or you know what, It's the
(34:45):
third inning now and I still don't have the right
feel for my curve ball. What about the feel involved here?
A coach doesn't know that you know, you have all
this time in between. Pitchers don't hit anymore, Pitchers go
back in the dugout, and as you know, they always
talk about the next group of hitters coming up. How
it would pro them. There's so much information in the
(35:05):
course of the game. What about feel? What about letting
the players decide the game and going by you know,
their own experience and what they see and feel in
the course of the game. And that's being overridden by
essentially data and what the pregame meetings and the sheets
tell you about what pitch should be thrown to which
guy at what count.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
You're speaking my language obviously, and I'm all about feel.
Feel is the gift of experience. Last point, too, for
me would be what are their records? And let's wait
until they become very successful to consider this like the
wave of the future. Again, these teams are vying to
become five hundred teams. They're attempting to become wild card teams.
(35:48):
And then and then at the towards the end of
the season, if things starting to fall into place, then
they become all in in regards to their their attempt
to get to the playoffs and win the World Series.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
It's just it's just a weird it's just a weird method.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
I mean, every spring training ever went to, I expected
the teams that was on to make the playoffs. I
mean as a manager, and I can't say that for
the first year with the Devil Rays, I'm not going
to be I'm.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Not that I'm not that much in the fantasy land,
and even.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
The second year, but that third year in two thousand
and eight, from two thousand and eight to till I
got to the Angels, because the Angels obviously were a
different situation completely too, but the Rays and the Cubs,
from two thousand and eight to the time I went
to the Angels, my expectation was to get to the
dance and to play the final.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
Game of the year annually.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
And that I'm certain that's not part of the conversation
for most of these teams when they in the offseason,
when they sit in the war room and they have
like almost almost like they're playing battleship with iPads, a
computer sitting up back to back on a table. It's
just a really the competitively speaking, it's not all into
(36:55):
the point of just trying to win it. It's just
trying to compete to a certain level. It's almost like
a maintenance of employment. It's almost like these four year
plans always permit, or five year plans always permit a
less than stellar performance because that's the only objective is
to be able to do this for several years and
not being able to get it done right now. So
(37:16):
it's it's it's almost like a development of the of
the Baseball ops department, whereas the development was supposed to
take place on the field only. So there's all of
this stuff that I'm am in total disagreement with when
you're just trying.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
To become a five hundred club. To me, that is
not the that is not the.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Nature of competitiveness, competitive spirit, and what we're trying to
do as a professional. You're trying to win it all
on an annual basis period.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
I gotta tell you, I love the Battleship reference.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah, oh man, you just brought me back and I'm thinking, man,
that was a game with no batteries and no screens
and no touch pad.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Right, yeah, oh my god, how great was that game?
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Right? It was great?
Speaker 3 (37:59):
But that's what they that's what I see when I
go to like you go to like the winter meetings, right,
you go up to the war room and there'll be
like this long table in the middle, and you got
like dudes sitting on both sides of the table with
their iPads or computers open. They're kind of like facing
one another. Nobody talks. Nobody talks in these rooms. There's
food everywhere, there's snacks everywhere, and then you have like
a brief meeting in the morning, and everybody's afraid to
(38:21):
open their mouths and there's this it's it's so it's
so incongruent for how I was raised was like really
personalities and people with actual opinions. But first came up
with the Raizlow that was still intact because there was
a great scouting staff with the Tampa Bay Rais and
I still think there is. And it was like open
discussion and disagreement. My god, Bart Braun, all these dudes
(38:44):
would sit.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
There and yell at one another.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
God, it's great, but that these guys are so afraid
because they don't have an opinion. They don't know what
they think they know, they don't they only know what
the what the print out tells them to know. And
that part is extremely boring, and god, if that were
to change, I want to be part of that group.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
You mentioned the winter meetings, and people don't even know
there are no meetings.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
I mean people are there for four days and they
never leave the room.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
That's right, That's right.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
There don't want to because they have to talk to people.
They have to walk down through the lobby and actually
talk to people and be confronted or whatever.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
It's. I never stayed in my room. I wanted all
of that, you.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Know, little lunches with Jerry, Ryan Storff and all these
good dudes downstairs, my boy Tommy Tamsa. We'd go out
to lunch on one of those days and you walk
through the lobby. You're talking to people you haven't seen
in a whole while running the Tommulus sorta.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
You know. It was just it was just fun stuff.
Where the first year.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
I did it, We're over in Orlando and I didn't
know any better. But I'm there like two three in
the morning, having drinks with like Leland Bouchee, and I
think cash was there, Brian Cashman, And then I put
it on put it on the room my room bill
for the Devil Rays and Matt Severman got me the
next day and said, hey, you know, what do you
what are we paying drinks for these guys for? Look
(40:02):
what the organizations they're from. So it was kind of
was kind of interesting and fun and that's what you did.
That's how I got to know Jimmy a little bit
and a boach at that time.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
I do it, but cash. It was like a two
three in the morning at the bar downstairs. Nothing better.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Hey, we began with the theme of getting fired.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
And we lost a great rock and roller from the
seventies who was fired early in his career. We'll talk
about that right after this on the Book of Joe
and welcome back to the Book of Joe.
Speaker 5 (40:47):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Did you see that Mason passed away? Dave Mason, the
English singer and songwriter guitarists.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Oh yeah, come on, Dave Mason was large at Lafayette.
He was so along the watchtower only you know, and
I know I love that. That's actually one of my paintings.
I had the Spy versus Spy, which I was not
permitted to use because it came out of Mad magazine,
but it's one of my favorites and I had used
(41:13):
a cell phone, and I wanted to blow up. There
was each number was assigned to something I wanted to
blow up, like doubt was one of them. And people
that say you know all the time, and then I write,
only you know and I know, And I said, with
apologies to Dave Mason, that was blaring.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
That was nineteen seventy two three, I think four.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
I was blaring throughout the fraternity houses and the off
campus housing and eventually in South College.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
That was the name of my dorm.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Dave Mason was large at lafy At and God, that's
like a marker in time for me.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
So when that happened bothered me a bit.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Oh yeah, I mean you mentioned all you know, and
I know we just disagree.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
That's right feeling, all right? I raised that.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
So Dave Mason, I mean great guitarists, had an incredible career.
But you think about it, Joe he started It wasn't
his first band, but really came on the radar on
the public scene with traffic. Remember that Steven Wimwood's Jim
Capaldi and in nineteen sixty eight, I think they had
only been together a couple of years. Dave Mason was
(42:23):
fired by the band. He later wrote in his memoir
that Stevie Winwood told him I don't like the way
you write, I don't like the way you sing, I
don't like the way you play, and we don't want
you in the band anymore.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
There's a song right there, there's there's lyrics right there
that could have been outstanding.
Speaker 4 (42:44):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Oh my goodness, that is not executives.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
Loved that right.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
It wasn't like difference in philosophy would need a new
voice different well, he kind of said, we need a
different voice in another way. But that's the stuff I miss, man.
I mean, we had meetings that were so direct, Oh
my god. And the meeting happened every morning I'd walked
and instructionally, we've talked about this, and me and Bob
Bluo would have an argument about something. Bob clear and
(43:09):
I'll reference it again. The one time I remember, specifically
a picture of Mark Maguire on the cover of Arizona
Republic in the morning as a hitter, I was hitting
coach in the sand position at contact and I loved it.
I thought it was great. I showed it to Bob
blu I said, look at it, palm down, palm up,
moment of contact. Isn't that perfect? Bob wa nice top
pan should be in this and that led to a
(43:31):
half hour discussion.
Speaker 4 (43:34):
Was a yelling argument. I mean, it was.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Absolutely that loud, and that's how it happened every day,
and that's how I learned.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
We learned to disagree.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Right, I mean, And that's what's missing, because everybody's afraid
to argue because nobody knows what they're Nobody really knows
enough about his subject to argue against somebody that had
like a has a counter argument, because there's just not
enough commit meant to whatever it is that you're attempting
(44:07):
to argue. The commitment is so nebulous, and it's so
it's based on again, information that's spewed out of a
box via something that's printed, as opposed to something that's
learned over time through experience. I missed that. That was
great player arguments. Oh my god, I can't even repeat.
I can't even repeat because of the language utilized in
(44:27):
the Tower at the Consta Grande Hotel in nineteen eighty
one with Jimmy Paul and C. C.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
Chris Kennon, Zaro mus.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Steuby and all these dudes, and I'm just like a
fly on all my Larry Holmes, I'm a first year guy.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
The adjectives utilized to describe players at that time. It
was kind of vile, and that's how they just spoke
it was. It was straightforward, and you know thought I
thought it was. I thought it was awful and great simultaneously.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Well, in the immortal words of Dave Mason, we just disagree.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
There's nothing wrong with it, man.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
And by the way, I mean, obviously he went onto
a huge career both as a solo artist and as
a session musician who was really in demand.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
You think about it.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
He played with such diverse superstars Jimmy Hendrix, Paul McCartney
and Rolling Stones, Michael Jackson, Eric Clapton, George Harrison. I mean,
my goodness, I mean, this guy he does He did
write a book, and I'm glad he did because he
saw a lot and did a lot. And also, Joe,
(45:36):
he was not what we would call your your you know,
typical rock star diva type. Here's what he said. This
is just five or six years ago. I still don't
like standing up there in front of the spotlight. I
feel very uncomfortable up there. I'm not a rock star,
let's put it that way. I never wanted to be.
(45:59):
I just wanted to write great music, make some money,
and have fun. And when I was younger, meet girls. Okay,
Mason's philosophy on life and music checked all the boxes
right there, brother, I mean, well done, David.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
What do I like the guy so much?
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Hey, we've reached that point, Joe, will you bring us
to the finish here?
Speaker 2 (46:21):
What do you got for us this week? To cap
this episode of the Book of.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
Joe said, indulge me for a moment. I was reading
something that I did with Kelly Candell.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
You know that name at all?
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Kelly Candell brothers Casey Casey Yeah, well as their mom
actually participated in a league of their own, yes, right.
And Kelly got in touch with me a couple of
years ago, looks like twenty twenty three, and he wanted
to do an article and he wanted my input on
some things, different topics.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
And I ran across it the other day and I
really like it.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
I do, and I hadn't read it in a while,
and so he was again, just give me a moment here.
But he there's a whole bunch of different questions that
he posed is really bright man and documentaries and you
know it's been in the film industry, just really sharp.
So the question was, let me ask you about courage.
In his book Pagan Virtue and Essay and Ethics, John Casey,
(47:14):
developing courage is not necessarily a natural process, but when
you have it, it helps you see the world differently
and to see possibilities for action that those who lack
courage do not see. What does courage open up during
a baseball game? That was the question, and this is
my answer. Courage is the one characteristic that permits you
to have all other positive characteristics. Without courage or self worth,
(47:36):
your self confidence will be impacted. It's finding your own voice.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
I don't even want to get into that, but it's true.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
I'm not here to tell you that I'm the most
fearless person in the world, because I still have my trepidations,
so I still have to talk myself into taking certain chances.
But once that fearlessness kicks in, you can pretty much
attempt anything.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
Without the emotional restraint, you.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
Might not be successful at it, but at least you
go after it wholeheartedly because you have a voice that
says this is what I believe, this is how I feel,
and you're able to convey that with conviction. Many times,
that kind of courage has allowed me to go against
what the numbers or analytics.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
Would tell you to do.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
So you have to believe in what you are seeing
with your eyes and experience. So again, I think it's
relevant to what we're just talking about today, and there's
a variety of different I mean, he has some really
good questions and he really pushed me a little bit,
but it's true and that's exactly what we're talking about.
And that's where I feel the disconnect is because a
lot of people in charge have not put in the time,
(48:37):
lacked the experience in the field to really analyze the situation.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
And on top of that, they they're not willing or
able to.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
Take chances because there isn't you can't. Success lies on
the other side of fear, and you've got to be
able to push through that fear in order to arrive
at that true moment of success that then permit you
not to be a five hundred club, but gives you
a chance to, on an annual basis, get to the
ants and attempt to play the last game of the year,
(49:06):
and when I love the thought that success kind of
exists on the street, on the other side of fear.
And that's we all know what that we're talking about.
I've been through it. You have to push through that fear.
You don't even know what the hell it is. It's
just it's that feeling that lives within that you don't
even know why it's there, but we all have it.
But once you are able to get on the other
(49:28):
side of the street where you've pushed through fear, all
of a sudden, Wow, the whole world opens up to you.
But you got to know, you got to know exactly
what you know, and that's normally based on experience and
feel and life situations. And so Kelly pushed me to
that point to think of all this stuff, and I
(49:51):
just came across it the other day.
Speaker 4 (49:52):
It's like several items. It's a couple of.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
Pages long, and I really am grateful for him for pushing.
Speaker 5 (49:57):
Me like that.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
No, I'm glad you brought that up.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
And it certainly does fit the topic because courage has
a lot to do with managing you know that better
than anybody.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Courage to me equals freedom, right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
You have the ability not to worry about what the
results are going to be. Like you're making outcome based decisions.
You're going to make mistakes. But conviction is part of courage,
and it's conviction and you believe you're doing the right thing.
It might not turn out to be the right thing,
but you believe it is, and it's sort.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Of like putting right.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
You better have conviction, and conviction will make you a
better putter and shooting free throws. Conviction, conviction and courage
very similar because you're not worried about the circumstances of what.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
If I don't get a hit here.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
I think about some of the best baseball players, clutch
players I've been around, you know, from Derek Jeter to
David Ortiz to Albert Poohols. They don't worry about failure.
That's what courage is to me. It's very empowering. It's
it's it's a freedom and if you can the more
free you can play. And you know this, Joe as well,
(51:04):
the better off you are. If you think about the
way you played baseball as a kid, with the freedom
you didn't worry about outcome right, you are having fun.
It was you know, you couldn't wait. I don't know
about you, Joe, but as a kid, you know, if
I had a little league game or a game that night,
that's all I could think about all day in school.
There was a game that night, Right, you couldn't wait
(51:26):
to get on the baseball field. If you can play
like that as a professional man, you've got it licked.
And I think that it is a very empowering thing.
When you talk about courage. We think about courage as
you know, we wait it to war or you know,
taking chances, risk taking. It's more of a belief to me,
and I think managing has to be based on courage,
(51:49):
that you're doing things that you're fully convicted in, rather
than you know, taking somebody else's plan of attack and
just kind of managing that than being yourself.
Speaker 3 (52:03):
Dance like nobody's watching, sing like no one's listening, love
like you've never been hurt, and live like it's heaven
on earth. That's what we did as kids.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
It's nothing I can say can top that. Joe's that's
a philosophy that goes well beyond managing a baseball a game.
Speaker 4 (52:20):
Right, I love that. I always love that.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Well, So we get to our younger selves. I think
the better off we are in a lot of ways.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
So no, thanks for.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Saying that, and great job. We'll see you next time.
By the Book of Joe. All right, brother b We'll
have a great week. The Book of Joe podcast is
a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
(52:50):
your podcasts.
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Aaron, Welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcast.
It's me Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe. It's surprising,
(00:24):
but we have our first managerial firing of the twenty
twenty sixth season. It's surprising because it's Alex Cora of
the Boston Red Sox.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
A lot of people didn't see this one coming.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
It won't get into this, Joe, but first I want
to get your first reactions. I happen to be in
Boston when the Yankees swept them, and I thought something
was up. I had no way I thought about a firing,
but Alex has always been very honest and direct.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Seemed a little bit back on his heels.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Obviously a team not playing well at all, and they
were overmatched quite frankly by the Yankees net series. So
it in retrospect, it didn't catch me off guard because
of how bad they were playing, but because Alex has
been a World Series winning manager. Yes, I was surprised,
So give me your first, your gut reaction.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I was surprised also, I mean again, I'm not didn't
have the privy to actually seeing it and feeling it
like you did. But you know, I thought Alex is,
you know, considered one of the better managers in the
game right now.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
I had plenty of experience.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
And the thing I didn't know, I don't understand is
that the dynamic between him and his front office there,
that's really what comes down to the the patience and
the relationship. Relationship then equals patients, I think within that
kind of a structure. So not I really don't know
that I know working against him. I know my conversations
(01:46):
with him. I've seen him on television. I think he
does a wonderful job of explaining his thoughts, and his thoughts.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Are good ones, so that there's there's that.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
But then again, like I'm saying, how does how did
him and Breslo get along? And and again, Alex is
a guy of experience and baseball acumen. He's Puerto Rican
and I've talked about this before before. All my Puerto
Rican brothers are really sharp baseball wise, So he's not
the kind of guy you push around.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
I guess That's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
So I don't know exactly how that would come down
between front office and him, And then on top of that,
it just seems with the purging completely not unlike what
I went through in Anaheim in a sense, because I
thought on the day that I was let go, I
thought Perry's coming there to elect fire several coaches and
talk to me about it.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
But it wasn't the case.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
So I was wondering if, like even maybe they wanted
to get rid of some of the coaches in Boston,
and he kind of pushed back, possibly again not knowing
that for sure. And on top of that, I talk
about this just on an MLB network. He was not
hired by Breslo, and that makes it easier for the
GAM with the front office to disconnect at that point,
whereas if they were the guys that had hired him,
(03:02):
with the mess with mendoz In and Robbie Thompson with Nembroski,
which are the other places that people are talking about,
more difficult or more patients involved when you have the
hiring process being in house. So there's a lot of
all this little, these smaller dynamic moments going on here
that play into all of this. But I also knowing
(03:24):
Alex a little bit and where he comes from, I
believe he would stay stand up for what he believed in,
and he would stand up for his coaching staff. So
I think that was part of what we saw a
current in Boston a couple of days ago.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Well, I think you're dead on. You saw the coaching
staff pretty much was decimated. It wasn't just getting rid
of the manager. So I think you're right about that.
Alex is a smart baseball guy. I very much agree
with you, and I think he wasn't in line with
not so much a personality clash, but some of the
philosophies of the front office. Remember this is a team
that dove into what they called run prevention emphasis in
(04:01):
the off season. Basically, what that means is they weren't
spending big money to keep people like Alex Bragman or
go out and get a Pete Alonzo, so they kind
of tinkered around the edges. I think they put a
little too much faith and confidence in some of their
young players turning a corner quickly. Quite frankly, it's not
a well constructed team. I thought all along they had
to move either Jaron Duran or Masataka Yoshida in the offseason.
(04:25):
They have five outfielders, four of whom bat left handed,
and it's just asking the manager too much to make
it work. Because you've seen someone like Duran, who's a
good player, who's got a little bit backward because let's
face it, Alex was trying to get playing time for
all of these hitters and he just can't do it,
you know, the pitching staff or a team built on
(04:47):
run prevention. To me, the starting rotation isn't good enough
to win that way. Brian Bao has been wildly inconsistent
in his career ERA plus under one hundred, so he's
been below average pitcher. Suddy Gray has been an average
pitcher the last couple of years. I like Sunny Gray
a lot, but he's not going to pitch toward the
front of a rotation anymore. And he's now on the
(05:08):
il thirty six year old guy. You get that also
with the injury risk with an older pitcher. So to me,
I look at that offense Joe, and I don't think
it's going to get much better.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I really don't.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Are they this bad their bottom three offensive team when
they fired Alex? I probably not, but there's not enough
power in the lineup for me. Yoshida is not a
number three hitter. Wilson Interres not a number four hitter.
Trevor story with the Red Sox in five years is
an on base percentage under three hundred. So they asked
a lot of Roman Anthony to be really good right
(05:43):
away at the age of twenty one. It hasn't happened.
That was a really big ask for him to be
a franchise player. There's a little bit of a leadership
vacuum because there's not a lot of you know, the
Bregman types who are gonna be the glue guys and
also one of the best players. I just think it's
a very low ceiling team, Joe. I think the front
office overrated this team. I think Alex wanted to go
(06:05):
a different direction in some cases with players, maybe place
to Don Rafael at second base to get all those
five outfielders in the line at the same time.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
But they have to play Marcelo Meyer figure out if
he could hit or not. Jaed Durman and has.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
You know, pitchers kind of figured him out at the
end of last season and he's really struggled. It's very common,
as you know, Joe, they go to places like Boston,
New York, Philly and you're replacing someone like Bregman too
much pressure early on. You know, he was booed in
the first game at Fenway Park before he played a
game at Fenway as a Red Sox.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
He got booted in the intros.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So all those things add up, and I think that
front off has probably overrated this team a little bit.
They definitely underperformed. Alex does have some blame. I'll go
back to the Devers deal. You know, I don't think
he communicated well and made that worked out.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
They actually had to move Devers.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
I'm not knocking them for trading him, but the way
he was handled, you know, it was very poor when they.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Did sign Alex Bregman and just.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Didn't know what to do, or at least publicly didn't
announce a clear plan. So a lot of things in
play here, Joe, but I can see why they made
the move.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I like the idea of Chad Tracy.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
He basically has had almost half this roster here in
the minor leagues, so he knows the abilities, the talents.
There's not a big transition here. It reminds me a
little bit of Don Kelly taking over to Pirates last year,
and look where they're doing this year. Going further back,
Davey Johnson getting a Mets team that was ready to
win with some young players. He had all those guys
(07:33):
in Triple A and Tide Water before he took over
the Mets job in eighty four. So I can see
both ends of this. But again I'm not high. I'm
not buying Red Sox stock right now. I think they'll
play better only because it's hard to be worse, but
I think the ceiling is limited.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yeah, first of all, you know you're talking about those outfields,
that outfield situation. I went through the same thing with
the Cubbies as we had five at half Almore and
Schwerber to play in the outfield and then Jason Heyward
and Dexter Follower. We're going to be like the stalwarts
or they're going to play often. So to get all
those at bats like Halp, More Schwerber because at that
(08:13):
time at the Hys we did use Schwarbs a bit
for that also, but to get all these guys involved,
Halp was playing some second base. I think they all
ended up with four and fifty plate appearances or more
in one season, and that to me, it was like
when I look back on that I was like, Wow,
how did that happen? That we were able to do that?
So I know it's not easy to get that many
played appearances for that many young outfielders because they're not
(08:34):
going to be happy when they're not playing. Trust me,
many conversations I had to have in that moment, but
it's true. It makes it very difficult just just jumping along.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Again. You're a couple things there. The acquisitional process. Again.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
You know, Alex is wearing it right now and his
coaching staff is wearing it right now.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
But you've just described completely and accurately the.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Acquisitional process that's in place, and that never gets blamed
for the disconnector or what's going on on the field.
The fact that Durbin would get booeds so early on
first day with introductions, that's kind of crazy, but again,
that's really what it comes down to. And nobody ever
dissects that enough because obviously the blame's going to always
(09:19):
ends up on the field somewhere. But I'm here to
tell you a lot of times and many times it
does occur before that, and that's really where great scouting
and having not necessarily unified voice because you don't want
a unified voice when it comes acquiring talent. You need
dissenting opinions in regards to making the right choices when
(09:40):
looking under the hood.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
And it just can't be analytically driven. I think it again.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
We talk about the field as being balanced, I think
off the field needs to be balanced with actual eyeballs combined.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
With analytical information.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
So the acquisitional process was flawed here, and then of
course Alex and the staff pay the price. Now having
said all that, I do like Chad Tracy a lot.
I was with them with the Angels very briefly. I
think it was a field coordinator, and and he was
let go abruptly, and I was kind of like shocked
because my conversations with him I thought were really good
and I liked he's a very good communicator, he's very sharp.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
I know his daddy, Jimmy, very well.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Jimmy and I go back in the eighties and the
minor leagues, and so we've known each other for a
long time.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
But regardless of that, I.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Liked the way chat race he spoke, and I liked
his baseball acumen also, and I liked his methods and
really sharp just the way he put one on one together.
I really liked it a lot, so that was kind
of interesting to me. And I didn't even realize he
was in waiting, but I liked that. But last point,
(10:43):
a lot of this seems to have been choreographed before.
Obviously this moment of recurred, meaning that it's early in
the season. I would almost bet this was talked about
in spring training. I know they had a decent year
last year, the Red Sox did, but the two prior
to that were not so good. And you just described
the turmoil from last year with the Devers thing, and
I'm glad you brought because I kind of forgot about that.
(11:05):
So this has been brewing for a bit, all of
this dissension in a sense, so all this stuff when
you when you combine it all together, kind of makes sense.
But at the end of the day, I will I
will defend field personnel over analytical personnel because they're the
ones that really need to be answering for the port
play of these players right now more than the field
(11:26):
staff needs to.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Well said, you know, and over the last five years,
by the way, the Red Sox have the worst record
in the American League East. Okay, this is uh you know,
I don't want to say it's a free fall because
it's not that because they didn't make the postseason last year.
But they've had some down years here and the consistency
we got used to with the Red Sox for a
(11:48):
while just hasn't been there. So here's the question now,
is what does Alex Korra do next. You mentioned Philadelphia
and New York Mets. Those managers are on the hot seats,
simple as that, for the same reason the Red Sox
made a move. When you pay, you know, you have
a payroll at this this is the top six payrolls
(12:09):
we're talking about here with these three teams, and you're
charging the prices that you do. The worst thing, and
I've had you know, owners tell me this, the worst
thing is you're out of contention before school lets out,
when the walk up crowds begin to take shape. Nobody
wants to go see a boring team. And the Red
Sox were a boring team in that series against the Yankees.
(12:30):
They couldn't even sell out Fenway against the Yankees. And
I get it. It was a school night, it's April,
the weather was cold. All those things in the past,
those things didn't matter. But worst of all, there was
no buzz about that team. There was nobody in the
line that you wanted to see as the lineup turned over,
like who's coming up next inning? And that Teams just
can't have that this early in the season because you
(12:50):
get no momentum in the summer months. And the Mets
and the Phillies are on the precipice of being that
kind of a team.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
You could say it's early, but it's not that.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
If you just check the records, teams that play under
three ninety and April three ninety Baseball, well, only seven
times in the wildcard era have they made the postseason.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
So they're on the precipice here.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
And you've got Dobrawski, who obviously has a history with
Alex core in Boston, with Red Sox running.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Things in Philly.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
You've got the New York Mets situation where they already
made changes on the staff in this past offseason. They've
been a brutal offensive team. I mean terrible every underlying number.
I like managers in both places. I'm just telling you
you know this, Joe. The reality of the business is
what you can do at this point. You can't make trades. Really,
(13:38):
you don't see major trades this time of year. It's
hard to change your personnel. It's a lot easier just
to change the manager.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Yes, if in fact Alex where to go somewhere else,
even one of these two places. But even before we
go there, I do like Mendoza and I do like Robbie,
that would just be once again, you got a different
voice press conference when they talked about having a different voice,
and that would be it. There'd be no other really
good reason. These guys have proven to be very competent
(14:06):
in their very recent past, and they are both have
great bedside manners, both running game extremely well. And I've
not been in their company in a clubhouse, but I
could watch them a distance. I read and I like
the way both of them talk. I like their interviews postgame.
I mean, they cannot be more calm, and they cannot
be more precise in regards to what they're saying, and
(14:26):
you know, for my sensibilities, I like what they say
and how they say it. Having said all that, if
in fact, let's just say Dobrawski went with Core because
of the reasons you mentioned there, If anybody wants to
hire Alex right now anybody whoever that might be. First
of all, he's gonna be hired by that front office,
(14:47):
So there's this long leash automatically put in place.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Number one, number two, he would need to be left
alone a bit.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I mean, these teams, if you're going to bring somebody
new in, then back off a little bit. Let this
new person come in there and incorporate his belief system
a bit, because obviously what you guys have been doing
there is not working necessarily very well.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
And again I'm not attacking anybody.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
I'm telling you the analytical departments in these places obviously
have not done a very good job in regards to
You're just talking about this setup, whether it's Boston or
in Philadelphia. Right now, leave the new manager alone a bit,
and if you're going to hire him, let him be
him in regards to whether he wants a themed road
trip or a different report times or whatever. Leave this
guy alone, let him manage the game that will manage
(15:33):
his team, and see if that permits an assension that
you're looking for. So hire him and then leave him alone,
empower him, be there for him. Of course, continue to
supply information, but permit this guy to make an impact,
and everybody needs to believe as though they can make
an impact on a daily basis at work in order
(15:53):
to get the best out of that person. So again
the last one that was, permit a different daily approach.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Everybody wants choreography right now.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Just all these teams because they're trying to develop on
a major league level and not doing such a good
job on a minor league level. They have these elaborate
pregame practices and they got guys there way too early,
and you see all of this stuff going on. This
stuff used to happen in instructional league double eight a ball,
double a triple, et cetera. And now it's happening on
(16:23):
the major league level. And I to me, it's just
senseless because you see all these teams right now.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
Many teams are striving to be five hundred. That should never.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Be the goal to be five under. The goal is
to be part of the dance at the end of
the year. And all these there's so many teams that
is trying to be five hundred. So permit a different
daily approach. Permit who remember this guy is you're bringing it,
Permit him to be able to make an impact. Support
him but stead of his way, and the lease will
be longer, just naturally because you've hired him and not
(16:53):
someone else. All these factors. If you're going to do it,
permit it to happen. Don't just tire somebody and they
bring him back in there and have the group come
down the group thing, come down stairs, start presenting these
volumes of information, all this redundancy that really has very
little impact to the day. It does, and I'm here
to tell you it doesn't.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
It's more.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
It's more impactful putting things together in the offseason than
on a daily approach. Once you're a manager in the
league for a bit, you know the other team, you
understand what they're like, you know what the manager thinks,
you know what the organization thinks. So your prep is
is kind of consistent. The biggest reason why you need
extraordinary help on a for pert series is when they
do when they bring somebody in, or if a manager
(17:35):
gets fired and all of a sudden, when you're when
you're when you're going over the red sox, Now, yeah,
you need more information right now because you got a
new skipper in there. So these are the kind of
things that I think are overstated overblown more too much
credit given to and not enough given credit given to
Possibly we talked about it analog baseball. Let the game
be played. Let the manager do his job, but the
(17:55):
coaches do their jobs. You're there to support them, not
to do their jobs.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Oh, you just nailed it, Joe, because how many times
we've heard that when changes are made and the Red
Sox did this as well. You hear this executive speak
about we need a new voice, or we need I.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Love this one. We need to go in a different direction.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Right, we love our manager, he did a great job,
but we need to go in a different direction. And
then they hire somebody and they don't allow that person
to do things differently.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
So it's a very inconsistent message.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
But twenty seven games into the season, Alex Cora is gone.
Back in the day, I actually was there covering the
Yankees when Yogi Barrow was canned sixteen games into the season.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
That's not the earliest firing ever.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Phil Garner with the two thousand and two Tigers was
gone after an oh and six start, and so is
Cal Ripkins Senior in nineteen eighty eight when the Orioles
got off to that brutal start they were also oh
and six, but Joe, that's not even the record six
games spring training nineteen fifty four Chicago Cubs. Phil Cavaretta
(19:09):
is the manager. They're coming off an eighty nine lost season,
seventh place in an eighteen league, and at the end
of March in spring training, he had the audacity to say, well,
we're probably a second division club. It's a phrase you
don't hear anymore, but basically the second half of the league.
And Phil Wrigley, the owner, didn't like it, fired him
(19:31):
in spring.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Training for being honest.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I love that. I guess what.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
The fifty four Cubs lost ninety game and finished at
seventh place.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Again, that is so good that you missed those days.
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yes, you speak your mind.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
And to be honest, it's beautiful, It's great. It's the
best way to get fired.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
He called it as he saw it. He was write,
I love that stuff. Well, I can't wait to ask
Joe this question.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Would you or your pitching coach call pitches from the
dugout in Major League Baseball? Because it's going on now, folks,
we'll dive into that right after this.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
On the Book of Joe.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Welcome back to the book with Joe, I mentioned calling
pitches from the dugout. Joe, the Marlins and the Rockies
both do this. Now I believe there's other teams that
do this, maybe not on an every pitch basis, but
certain situations. YE see the catcher looking in a lot
and I know they're looking in a lot of times
for signs or you know, defensive plays with runners on base.
(20:48):
But there is sort of a check and balance on
catcher game calling pitcher game calling. And I bring this
up and we're gonna get into this in a minute
show because the games this year are six minutes longer
than they were through the same point of last season.
I'll get into that in a minute, but first I
(21:08):
want you to address this issue of the Marlins and
the Rockies calling pitches. And by the way, both of
those teams, if you compare their eras this April off
the last April, they're much more than one full run
lower eras this year.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
So it's working.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
And when things work in baseball, what happens other teams
copy it. I think we may see more of this.
Give me your thoughts, Joe.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Well, is it because their pitching is just better too?
I mean, do they have better arms, do they have
more experienced arms? I mean, you know, the Rockies have
got like this killer bullpen all of a sudden with
big arms, So I mean you got to consider that
also when you say that nineteen eur the nineteen eighties
and mid eighties, Jim Wing was the pitching coach University
of Arizona and Jerry Kindall as the manager, and I
(21:56):
would watch these games as a Scott Joe mcgrahan was there,
Scott Erickson was there. There are some like big arms man,
and I'm watching every pitch being called from the dugout.
I'm quite frankly. I even wrote him my report that
I thought that McGrain primarily would do better in pro
ball because he'd be able to use his fastball more often.
It was just like breaking ball crazy. It's like that,
and all of stuff between fingers. I always wanted twos
(22:17):
and threes put down. So this is nothing new, It's
just more obvious now. It's just another aspect of joystick
baseball and the fact that eventually you might see headsets
from upstairs down to the dugout at some point, and
again just call it as it is. Managers will become
middle managers and paid to such or like a head
(22:38):
coach as opposed to a manager. So this is yes,
I could see it happening.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
I'm not in agreement with it.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Again, it's just if you really want all of that,
then just put the uniform on yourself. Stop sitting upstairs,
come sit downstairs. You don't need all these other people.
You come and do this, because that's really what it's
evolving into. Yes, though I do believe there's times to
look into the dugout and have a pitch. We've talked
about him a thousand times, Mike Borsello had with the Cubs.
(23:09):
If you were to get a job, if I were
to get a job as a manager, again, just as
a conjecture, whatever the first guy would hire is Borzelo,
or try to hire, maybe Mike Borzello. I've talked about
other teams getting borselloed, and the Indians did on the
last out of the World Series in twenty sixteen. He
knew that Martinez could not hit a curveball, or if
he did put in a play be like hitting won
twenty five yees.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
So we had this gig going on.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
The catchers would always peek in if they needed something
from Borzy in a hot moment. It wasn't like all
the time, You're not going to feel the game as
a catcher, and it's really going to ruin the rhythm
of everything. You were constantly looking in there. Although I
guess they got it down. Obviously it's working somehow right now,
but just told on it might not be working when
the pitchers aren't throwing so well. But I like the
idea of being able to look in in a hot
(23:54):
moment when you're not sure. There's not a thing wrong
with that. So that's how I would set it up.
That's how I would like it. But you have to
have somebody like Borsello sitting over there that really knows
what's going on, as dissected the other team completely and
has a great feel for the picture our pitcher in
that moment, their hitter in that moment, and what works
and what does work?
Speaker 4 (24:15):
And he did.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
I mean, I've watched it is it was meticulous, and
it was It was simple yet meticulous and all the
best ways. So I'm not into it every pitch. I'm
not into all this interference. I'm not into joystick baseball.
I'm not into headset baseball. But I am into utilizing
bench people coaches of course, because that's their job, and
(24:37):
having a method of communicating. Like for instance, I never
wanted our catchers to put a sign on a first
and third situation. You know, guys walk out in front
and they'll like to start tapping their chest or whatever.
I started this years ago where I wanted that sign
to come from the bench because I didn't want to
alert other people to what we were going to possibly do.
(24:57):
Because actually I would want to watch catchers give signs
to know if they're throwing through or throwing a third base,
if they stepp that in front of the plate.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
This is something that goes back forever.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
So you always had signs coming from the bench to
the field. I always wanted signs covering or not covering
who should cover a second base. If you need some help,
look in there, movement look in there, and you're gonna
have a coach moving people around. But nobody notices this
kind of stuff. That's how I like my information coming
from the bench to the field. There are times it's necessary,
(25:29):
it should not be all the time, because when that is,
the players start thinking for themselves. You start becoming too
reliant on everybody else. It's like your kids growing up.
You want them to be able to think for themselves.
They can't always rely on you. And it absolutely applies
to a baseball game.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, that's the part that bothers me the most.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
And I'm all for, you know, in a hot moment,
as you said, asking for some help.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
But obviously this is being data driven.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
We all know that, of course, of course you know.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
And it probably won't be long until we see the
pitching coach or whoever's calling the pitches.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
It's going to be a probably a job in the.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Future, you know, pitching coach caller in the dugout, who's
not even a pitching coach. We're going to see them
probably with a PitchCom device and plugging it, pushing the buttons,
and the catcher and pitcher they all hear it.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Why not go right directly there.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
I'm not a big fan of anything that takes away
the players centric competition of baseball, such as when bas
coaches are stealing signs based on tells of the pitcher
and relaying them to the runner around second relaying to
the hitter. I don't even like defenders with laminated defensive
cards in their pocket telling them where to play. Why
you're removing all the thought of what it takes to
(26:40):
play baseball and to decide competition based on the abilities
and that includes the intellect and mental side of it
of the players on the field. So the more the
game is decided between the white lines, the more I'm
in favor of it. That's why I don't like the
idea of the pitching coach calling all the pitches or
whoever's in the dugout. The other thing to look at here,
and this is it's going to sound like nitpicking, but
(27:03):
I mentioned that games are six minutes longer. The Rockies
games this year are taking a second and a half
more per pitch than they did last year, and that's
because there's now a second relay going on with signs. Right,
Instead of catcher to pitcher, we're going coach to catcher
to pitcher. And you said, what's the big deal, it's
(27:25):
just a second and a half.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
What is that.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Well, in the course of a game, with two hundred
and ninety four pitches being thrown, half of those by
the Rockies, it adds up to between three and four minutes.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
And again you're saying, well, that's not a lot.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
But these things start adding up, and that's what's happening
to time of game. And I've got the numbers, and
we're talking about through the same point of last year,
four hundred and twenty one games, and there's five more
pitches per game than it was last year. Part of
this because we went to abs pretty much new you
were get more walks, and walks forth well tremendously early on.
(28:01):
It's sort of leveled out on strikeouts are up to
that is flattened out, so strikeouts are about the same,
but walks are up, but any case, five more pitches.
What we're seeing now is pitchers have learned how to
use the pitch timer as a tool. I don't know
how many times I'd seen it, where you know, the
batter has to be set in the box with eight
(28:22):
seconds left. The pitcher is smart enough now to be
looking at that clock, not at the catcher or the
target until it gets down to about too So now
you've got the batter standing there in the box. And
I actually think the guys who have their hands up
high and rigid are at a disadvantage in the box
because you might stand there for eight seconds before the
(28:44):
pitch is on the way. That is an eternity in
a batter's box. But in any case, pitchers who first
with the pitch timer had to hurry because nobody wanted
a violation. They've learned the timing of it now, so
they're holding the ball longer.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
So that adds up.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Hitters have gotten used to the pitch timer and the
challenge system because now the challenges by the hitters per
game have gone up every year, and I'm talking about timeouts.
I'm sorry, timeouts by the hitters have gone up every year.
It was fourteen last year, it's sixteen this year. They've
gotten used to it. So guys are getting used to
(29:20):
the timer and the challenge system. Bottom line, Joe, is
these all add up. You're talking about five more pitches,
two more challenges by batters. The ABS system has added
sixty three seconds.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Four challenges per game averages about you know, fifteen to
twenty seconds, but six minutes have been added to the
time of game because people have learned to play under
these rules now. But I do think in a very
small way that's saying this is adding up, but in
a small way, you know, the second level of relaying
pitches from the dugout is also slowing the game down.
(29:54):
I can tell you Baseball is not happy about it
because you look at this direction and I kind of
alluded to this earlier Joe copycat league. You're probably going
to see more teams doing this.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Are they going to add seconds off the pitchclock to
the hurry things up? I mean that would be the
sounds like the natural.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Well they did that after the first year because they
found out that, you know, the pitches were being thrown
with like five to eight seconds left in the clock.
They're like, we don't need all this time, So they
did chop it down from twenty to eight from twenty
to eighteen. But no matter where you put it, I
think pitchers will learn what to deal with that. They're
not in a hurry so much anymore.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Well, they're talking about the hitter.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
And I have actually had this thought because I rarely
have noticed that pitchers are being thrown like two seconds.
I was watching Max Reid, I think a little bit
last night I would get down to two seconds, and
I did, I thought, where's the pitch clock? Are these
guys actually looking at the pitch clock? Obviously it's got
to be back there where they can see it, and
you're right. I was my being a former hitting coach,
(30:50):
and my thought was, always, Okay, the hitter gets stuck.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
You get stuck in.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
This position, limited timeouts, can't step out, all that kind
of stuff. What I used to do with some hitters
in this situation, because you know, back then, guys could
take as long as they want. When when a picture's
in the wind up, I asked my hitters to like,
you know, kind of like create a pendulum with the
bat on the bottom, like just back and forth, back
and forth, because then he could come back up and
(31:14):
get it set as he started his delivery. A little
bit different when the picture's out of the stretch, because
the picture could come set and come quickly, he could
come set and hold it. So there was always a
timing issue when the picture was out of the stretch
compared to when he was out of the wind up.
Jeff Capilla, just a name back from the Blast from
the Past, double a hitter, big guy. He'd get stuck.
(31:34):
He'd get stuck too long. And when he gets stuck
too long, it would it would mess up his timing.
So I think the next level would be something to
that effect, the hitter is going to have to kind
of unplug for a bit somehow or alter what he's doing. Again,
when a picture's out of the wind up, it's easier
to do something differently to not get stuck in one
position too long. But when the pictures out of the stretch,
(31:56):
it becomes a little bit more difficult. Again, these are
the kind of adjustments that have to be made. You're
you know, you're making me think about things from the
past that are pretty much it's the same, but different,
different because now we have a clock. Actually they controlled
same because here as we get stuck in the past
for the same reasons. So it's kind of interesting when
you're and again last point, when you're talking about this
and liquor for the next inefficiency in a sense, where
(32:17):
where's the next a little bit of a time work
that we haven't really noticed yet. We're a team or
a picture, whoever's going to be able to take advantage
of it? Is there anything left to be taking advantage
of that? Nobody's thought about the unintended consequences which obvious.
See this is and and then what do you do
to rectify it?
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Is? Is it necessary to rectify it? Like you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
If MLB is not into it, maybe there is going
to be another subtraction of time. But it'd be curious
to see how this plays out down the road. And
it is interesting how competitors always find the glitch given
and given time an opportunity.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
How about the idea of not permitting signs talking about
signs for the pictures to be called from the dugout.
It would be very hard to adjudicate. Well, I don't
know how you guard against it. But if Baseball doesn't
like the idea of the coaches calling the pitches, could
they actually come up with a rule to ban that.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
That'd be hard, I mean, how or it goes like
you had kind of insinuated to the next level is
just to call the pitch from the dugout via the like,
as opposed to the catcher pushing the button whatever the
whoever this caller is pushes the button.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
Again, I'm not into that.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
I still believe it could be handled in a very
expeditious way from the bench in the field. And again,
if you're if you're wanting to call every pitch, you're right,
it can be tedious and it's gonna it's gonna continue
to be this way. I still believe the better way
to do it is occasionally, but unless you're in charge
of the situation, and like again, your suggestion is accurate.
(33:55):
The more success noticed by other groups, the more they're
going to want to do it themselves. It's incredible how
there is a copycat component of this. And the last
point with this, wait, wait just a little bit. Okay,
these teams have been successful in the short term, the
Marlins and the Rockies. Let's just find out how much
is it because a conscio is better this year and
(34:15):
the bullpen of the Rockies are much better this year.
And just wait a little bit before we come there
any conclusions on this.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
I guess maybe I'm just too old school here, Joe
and as we talk about analog baseball and leaning that way,
but it just bothers me that these are major league
pitchers and catchers and the game gets completely taken out
of their hands. What about the pitcher who feels like,
you know today, I feel really strong, I feel really
good about my fastball, or you know what, It's the
(34:45):
third inning now and I still don't have the right
feel for my curve ball. What about the feel involved here?
A coach doesn't know that you know, you have all
this time in between. Pitchers don't hit anymore, Pitchers go
back in the dugout, and as you know, they always
talk about the next group of hitters coming up. How
it would pro them. There's so much information in the
(35:05):
course of the game. What about feel? What about letting
the players decide the game and going by you know,
their own experience and what they see and feel in
the course of the game. And that's being overridden by
essentially data and what the pregame meetings and the sheets
tell you about what pitch should be thrown to which
guy at what count.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
You're speaking my language obviously, and I'm all about feel.
Feel is the gift of experience. Last point, too, for
me would be what are their records? And let's wait
until they become very successful to consider this like the
wave of the future. Again, these teams are vying to
become five hundred teams. They're attempting to become wild card teams.
(35:48):
And then and then at the towards the end of
the season, if things starting to fall into place, then
they become all in in regards to their their attempt
to get to the playoffs and win the World Series.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
It's just it's just a weird it's just a weird method.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
I mean, every spring training ever went to, I expected
the teams that was on to make the playoffs. I
mean as a manager, and I can't say that for
the first year with the Devil Rays, I'm not going
to be I'm.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Not that I'm not that much in the fantasy land,
and even.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
The second year, but that third year in two thousand
and eight, from two thousand and eight to till I
got to the Angels, because the Angels obviously were a
different situation completely too, but the Rays and the Cubs,
from two thousand and eight to the time I went
to the Angels, my expectation was to get to the
dance and to play the final.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
Game of the year annually.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
And that I'm certain that's not part of the conversation
for most of these teams when they in the offseason,
when they sit in the war room and they have
like almost almost like they're playing battleship with iPads, a
computer sitting up back to back on a table. It's
just a really the competitively speaking, it's not all into
(36:55):
the point of just trying to win it. It's just
trying to compete to a certain level. It's almost like
a maintenance of employment. It's almost like these four year
plans always permit, or five year plans always permit a
less than stellar performance because that's the only objective is
to be able to do this for several years and
not being able to get it done right now. So
(37:16):
it's it's it's almost like a development of the of
the Baseball ops department, whereas the development was supposed to
take place on the field only. So there's all of
this stuff that I'm am in total disagreement with when
you're just trying.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
To become a five hundred club. To me, that is
not the that is not the.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Nature of competitiveness, competitive spirit, and what we're trying to
do as a professional. You're trying to win it all
on an annual basis period.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
I gotta tell you, I love the Battleship reference.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah, oh man, you just brought me back and I'm thinking, man,
that was a game with no batteries and no screens
and no touch pad.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Right, yeah, oh my god, how great was that game?
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Right? It was great?
Speaker 3 (37:59):
But that's what they that's what I see when I
go to like you go to like the winter meetings, right,
you go up to the war room and there'll be
like this long table in the middle, and you got
like dudes sitting on both sides of the table with
their iPads or computers open. They're kind of like facing
one another. Nobody talks. Nobody talks in these rooms. There's
food everywhere, there's snacks everywhere, and then you have like
a brief meeting in the morning, and everybody's afraid to
(38:21):
open their mouths and there's this it's it's so it's
so incongruent for how I was raised was like really
personalities and people with actual opinions. But first came up
with the Raizlow that was still intact because there was
a great scouting staff with the Tampa Bay Rais and
I still think there is. And it was like open
discussion and disagreement. My god, Bart Braun, all these dudes
(38:44):
would sit.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
There and yell at one another.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
God, it's great, but that these guys are so afraid
because they don't have an opinion. They don't know what
they think they know, they don't they only know what
the what the print out tells them to know. And
that part is extremely boring, and god, if that were
to change, I want to be part of that group.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
You mentioned the winter meetings, and people don't even know
there are no meetings.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
I mean people are there for four days and they
never leave the room.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
That's right, That's right.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
There don't want to because they have to talk to people.
They have to walk down through the lobby and actually
talk to people and be confronted or whatever.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
It's. I never stayed in my room. I wanted all
of that, you.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Know, little lunches with Jerry, Ryan Storff and all these
good dudes downstairs, my boy Tommy Tamsa. We'd go out
to lunch on one of those days and you walk
through the lobby. You're talking to people you haven't seen
in a whole while running the Tommulus sorta.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
You know. It was just it was just fun stuff.
Where the first year.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
I did it, We're over in Orlando and I didn't
know any better. But I'm there like two three in
the morning, having drinks with like Leland Bouchee, and I
think cash was there, Brian Cashman, And then I put
it on put it on the room my room bill
for the Devil Rays and Matt Severman got me the
next day and said, hey, you know, what do you
what are we paying drinks for these guys for? Look
(40:02):
what the organizations they're from. So it was kind of
was kind of interesting and fun and that's what you did.
That's how I got to know Jimmy a little bit
and a boach at that time.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
I do it, but cash. It was like a two
three in the morning at the bar downstairs. Nothing better.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Hey, we began with the theme of getting fired.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
And we lost a great rock and roller from the
seventies who was fired early in his career. We'll talk
about that right after this on the Book of Joe
and welcome back to the Book of Joe.
Speaker 5 (40:47):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Did you see that Mason passed away? Dave Mason, the
English singer and songwriter guitarists.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Oh yeah, come on, Dave Mason was large at Lafayette.
He was so along the watchtower only you know, and
I know I love that. That's actually one of my paintings.
I had the Spy versus Spy, which I was not
permitted to use because it came out of Mad magazine,
but it's one of my favorites and I had used
(41:13):
a cell phone, and I wanted to blow up. There
was each number was assigned to something I wanted to
blow up, like doubt was one of them. And people
that say you know all the time, and then I write,
only you know and I know, And I said, with
apologies to Dave Mason, that was blaring.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
That was nineteen seventy two three, I think four.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
I was blaring throughout the fraternity houses and the off
campus housing and eventually in South College.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
That was the name of my dorm.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Dave Mason was large at lafy At and God, that's
like a marker in time for me.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
So when that happened bothered me a bit.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Oh yeah, I mean you mentioned all you know, and
I know we just disagree.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
That's right feeling, all right? I raised that.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
So Dave Mason, I mean great guitarists, had an incredible career.
But you think about it, Joe he started It wasn't
his first band, but really came on the radar on
the public scene with traffic. Remember that Steven Wimwood's Jim
Capaldi and in nineteen sixty eight, I think they had
only been together a couple of years. Dave Mason was
(42:23):
fired by the band. He later wrote in his memoir
that Stevie Winwood told him I don't like the way
you write, I don't like the way you sing, I
don't like the way you play, and we don't want
you in the band anymore.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
There's a song right there, there's there's lyrics right there
that could have been outstanding.
Speaker 4 (42:44):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Oh my goodness, that is not executives.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
Loved that right.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
It wasn't like difference in philosophy would need a new
voice different well, he kind of said, we need a
different voice in another way. But that's the stuff I miss, man.
I mean, we had meetings that were so direct, Oh
my god. And the meeting happened every morning I'd walked
and instructionally, we've talked about this, and me and Bob
Bluo would have an argument about something. Bob clear and
(43:09):
I'll reference it again. The one time I remember, specifically
a picture of Mark Maguire on the cover of Arizona
Republic in the morning as a hitter, I was hitting
coach in the sand position at contact and I loved it.
I thought it was great. I showed it to Bob
blu I said, look at it, palm down, palm up,
moment of contact. Isn't that perfect? Bob wa nice top
pan should be in this and that led to a
(43:31):
half hour discussion.
Speaker 4 (43:34):
Was a yelling argument. I mean, it was.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Absolutely that loud, and that's how it happened every day,
and that's how I learned.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
We learned to disagree.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Right, I mean, And that's what's missing, because everybody's afraid
to argue because nobody knows what they're Nobody really knows
enough about his subject to argue against somebody that had
like a has a counter argument, because there's just not
enough commit meant to whatever it is that you're attempting
(44:07):
to argue. The commitment is so nebulous, and it's so
it's based on again, information that's spewed out of a
box via something that's printed, as opposed to something that's
learned over time through experience. I missed that. That was
great player arguments. Oh my god, I can't even repeat.
I can't even repeat because of the language utilized in
(44:27):
the Tower at the Consta Grande Hotel in nineteen eighty
one with Jimmy Paul and C. C.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
Chris Kennon, Zaro mus.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Steuby and all these dudes, and I'm just like a
fly on all my Larry Holmes, I'm a first year guy.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
The adjectives utilized to describe players at that time. It
was kind of vile, and that's how they just spoke
it was. It was straightforward, and you know thought I
thought it was. I thought it was awful and great simultaneously.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Well, in the immortal words of Dave Mason, we just disagree.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
There's nothing wrong with it, man.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
And by the way, I mean, obviously he went onto
a huge career both as a solo artist and as
a session musician who was really in demand.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
You think about it.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
He played with such diverse superstars Jimmy Hendrix, Paul McCartney
and Rolling Stones, Michael Jackson, Eric Clapton, George Harrison. I mean,
my goodness, I mean, this guy he does He did
write a book, and I'm glad he did because he
saw a lot and did a lot. And also, Joe,
(45:36):
he was not what we would call your your you know,
typical rock star diva type. Here's what he said. This
is just five or six years ago. I still don't
like standing up there in front of the spotlight. I
feel very uncomfortable up there. I'm not a rock star,
let's put it that way. I never wanted to be.
(45:59):
I just wanted to write great music, make some money,
and have fun. And when I was younger, meet girls. Okay,
Mason's philosophy on life and music checked all the boxes
right there, brother, I mean, well done, David.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
What do I like the guy so much?
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Hey, we've reached that point, Joe, will you bring us
to the finish here?
Speaker 2 (46:21):
What do you got for us this week? To cap
this episode of the Book of.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
Joe said, indulge me for a moment. I was reading
something that I did with Kelly Candell.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
You know that name at all?
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Kelly Candell brothers Casey Casey Yeah, well as their mom
actually participated in a league of their own, yes, right.
And Kelly got in touch with me a couple of
years ago, looks like twenty twenty three, and he wanted
to do an article and he wanted my input on
some things, different topics.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
And I ran across it the other day and I
really like it.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
I do, and I hadn't read it in a while,
and so he was again, just give me a moment here.
But he there's a whole bunch of different questions that
he posed is really bright man and documentaries and you
know it's been in the film industry, just really sharp.
So the question was, let me ask you about courage.
In his book Pagan Virtue and Essay and Ethics, John Casey,
(47:14):
developing courage is not necessarily a natural process, but when
you have it, it helps you see the world differently
and to see possibilities for action that those who lack
courage do not see. What does courage open up during
a baseball game? That was the question, and this is
my answer. Courage is the one characteristic that permits you
to have all other positive characteristics. Without courage or self worth,
(47:36):
your self confidence will be impacted. It's finding your own voice.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
I don't even want to get into that, but it's true.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
I'm not here to tell you that I'm the most
fearless person in the world, because I still have my trepidations,
so I still have to talk myself into taking certain chances.
But once that fearlessness kicks in, you can pretty much
attempt anything.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
Without the emotional restraint, you.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
Might not be successful at it, but at least you
go after it wholeheartedly because you have a voice that
says this is what I believe, this is how I feel,
and you're able to convey that with conviction. Many times,
that kind of courage has allowed me to go against
what the numbers or analytics.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
Would tell you to do.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
So you have to believe in what you are seeing
with your eyes and experience. So again, I think it's
relevant to what we're just talking about today, and there's
a variety of different I mean, he has some really
good questions and he really pushed me a little bit,
but it's true and that's exactly what we're talking about.
And that's where I feel the disconnect is because a
lot of people in charge have not put in the time,
(48:37):
lacked the experience in the field to really analyze the situation.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
And on top of that, they they're not willing or
able to.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
Take chances because there isn't you can't. Success lies on
the other side of fear, and you've got to be
able to push through that fear in order to arrive
at that true moment of success that then permit you
not to be a five hundred club, but gives you
a chance to, on an annual basis, get to the
ants and attempt to play the last game of the year,
(49:06):
and when I love the thought that success kind of
exists on the street, on the other side of fear.
And that's we all know what that we're talking about.
I've been through it. You have to push through that fear.
You don't even know what the hell it is. It's
just it's that feeling that lives within that you don't
even know why it's there, but we all have it.
But once you are able to get on the other
(49:28):
side of the street where you've pushed through fear, all
of a sudden, Wow, the whole world opens up to you.
But you got to know, you got to know exactly
what you know, and that's normally based on experience and
feel and life situations. And so Kelly pushed me to
that point to think of all this stuff, and I
(49:51):
just came across it the other day.
Speaker 4 (49:52):
It's like several items. It's a couple of.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
Pages long, and I really am grateful for him for pushing.
Speaker 5 (49:57):
Me like that.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
No, I'm glad you brought that up.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
And it certainly does fit the topic because courage has
a lot to do with managing you know that better
than anybody.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Courage to me equals freedom, right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
You have the ability not to worry about what the
results are going to be. Like you're making outcome based decisions.
You're going to make mistakes. But conviction is part of courage,
and it's conviction and you believe you're doing the right thing.
It might not turn out to be the right thing,
but you believe it is, and it's sort.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Of like putting right.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
You better have conviction, and conviction will make you a
better putter and shooting free throws. Conviction, conviction and courage
very similar because you're not worried about the circumstances of what.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
If I don't get a hit here.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
I think about some of the best baseball players, clutch
players I've been around, you know, from Derek Jeter to
David Ortiz to Albert Poohols. They don't worry about failure.
That's what courage is to me. It's very empowering. It's
it's it's a freedom and if you can the more
free you can play. And you know this, Joe as well,
(51:04):
the better off you are. If you think about the
way you played baseball as a kid, with the freedom
you didn't worry about outcome right, you are having fun.
It was you know, you couldn't wait. I don't know
about you, Joe, but as a kid, you know, if
I had a little league game or a game that night,
that's all I could think about all day in school.
There was a game that night, Right, you couldn't wait
(51:26):
to get on the baseball field. If you can play
like that as a professional man, you've got it licked.
And I think that it is a very empowering thing.
When you talk about courage. We think about courage as
you know, we wait it to war or you know,
taking chances, risk taking. It's more of a belief to me,
and I think managing has to be based on courage,
(51:49):
that you're doing things that you're fully convicted in, rather
than you know, taking somebody else's plan of attack and
just kind of managing that than being yourself.
Speaker 3 (52:03):
Dance like nobody's watching, sing like no one's listening, love
like you've never been hurt, and live like it's heaven
on earth. That's what we did as kids.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
It's nothing I can say can top that. Joe's that's
a philosophy that goes well beyond managing a baseball a game.
Speaker 4 (52:20):
Right, I love that. I always love that.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Well, So we get to our younger selves. I think
the better off we are in a lot of ways.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
So no, thanks for.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Saying that, and great job. We'll see you next time.
By the Book of Joe. All right, brother b We'll
have a great week. The Book of Joe podcast is
a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
(52:50):
your podcasts.
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