The Book of Joe: Super Bowl, Skubal Wins, and ABS coming!

Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci give their recap of the Super Bowl and how Sam Darnold blossomed into the QB he was supposed to be.  What did Joe think about the commercials this year? Tigers lefty Tarik Skubal wins a record arbitration case, but should he have been treated better by Detroit?  Heading into Spring Training, Tom is wondering about the plan in Boston for the Red Sox while Joe comments about the use of the ABS this season.   Plus, Tom notes the passing of the great QBs John Brodie and Sonny Jurgensen.  

The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeart Radio.  

#fsr

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Daron, Welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcast
with me, Tom Barducci, and of course Joe Madden. Joe,
we get a lot to get to. We're going to
talk about the Red Sox and what's going on with

(00:25):
their acquisitions. We got Derek Schooble's record arbitration, hearing some
icons in the world of sports that we lost. But
of course we have to start with the Super Bowl, right,
I mean, Joe, I think like the Super Bowl is
like it's a mirror on our society at a moment
in time, and everybody watches it, either the game end

(00:46):
or the commercials. So I'm going to my go to
football expert, the former Lafayette quarterback Broadway Joe Madden. Give
me your impressions either the game, the commercials, the whole
Night of Americana.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Broad Street show actually up Broadway that was all about well,
I mean it's all about that. For me, it's about
the game, and even going into that game, I just
I always bet on quarterbacks and I love defenses too,
So of course I'm not just saying I really thought
the Seahawks had a much better chance to win that game.
I was never a Sam Darnal fan coming out of us. See,

(01:25):
I just wasn't. So I'm with the Jets. I thought
I may have been right, but I don't know what happened.
And somewhere like you have to be the second or
third team even sometimes to get a baseball player to
blossom into the player that you think he can be,
and it's certainly has happened with him. He really has
been impressive this year, the last couple of years actually,

(01:48):
So I was been on the quarterback right there, and
the other kid's good.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Don't get me wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
I like him a lot, and probably in a couple
of years from now is going to play on a
team in a game like like Darnold just did. But
that's where I was at with this whole thing. And
then the Seattle defense extraordinary. I mean I watched them
several times this year, so just from a purely talent perspective,
and again I watched New England some, but I just thought,

(02:12):
you know, Seattle had this dominant way about them, and
of course they have to play in a division with
the forty nine ers in the Rams. Mike Cardinals weren't
as good but I mean, all the factors for me
pointed in that direction, and so it wasn't surprised it.
It was rather, I think, kind of like an anti climatic,
kind of a boring game overall, I thought, But I

(02:32):
guess when you're playing dominant defense and somehow it's like
like a one nothing or two to one game in
baseball where the pitching and defense dominate, dominate.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
So I was not surprised.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
And congratulations to Sam because I don't know him, but
I'm really impressed by him and how he's turned his
entire career around on the major league level, doesn't have
the benefit of going back to the minor leagues, et cetera.
Regarding the commercials, I was in a real loud, noisy
place watching the game at somebody's house, so I didn't
really get to bear down on him so much. But

(03:05):
I did like the Goodwill Duncan commercial. I don't know
how they pull that off, of course, with the mater
technology whatever, but I thought that was rather entertaining. I
didn't really have a chance to break it all down.
And of course the controversial halftime performances, whatever side you're
on for that, I'm good with. Controversy and anytime you
want to create some discussion, that's not a bad thing.

(03:28):
So not a big fan of it overall. However, I'm
not saying it was a bad thing. It's just something
that creates controversy and discussion, which again I think is healthy.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
So great day overall.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
Like I said, anti climatic in a sense, but I
thought the better team did win, and it's always I
guess it's always good when that happens. However, when you
pull off the fset that's kind of interesting too.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, when you look up at the scoreboard of a
football game after three quarters and I think it was
twelve to nothing. Yeah, you're like, what's going on here? Right?

Speaker 3 (04:00):
You don't want the.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
Kickers to be the highlight of the super Bowl, and
they were for most of the game. You know, I
mentioned it's kind of a reflection on Americana specifically. Obviously
people it's like a holiday, right, families gatherings, You're at
a big place. So I look at the commercials as
really the mirror, and man, it was just full of
crypto AI and gambling and celebrities, Like I mean, what

(04:26):
happened to Wit? What happened to something that you know,
just involved either a character or a well written storyline
or something. Right, just throw a celebrity out there and
use the AI trickery. Now, maybe we're going to look
back on these are early days of AI obviously, kind
of like the Shark and Jaws, and like, man, it
doesn't look that impressive. At the time though, it was

(04:46):
like wow, that just scared you from going to the beach.
It was so cool. But man, just throwing something out
there because you have a celebrity in it, or just
because it's AI, that's not good enough, folks. And I
just saw that time after time after time, we are
obsessed with celebrities. Man, just throw them out there. You're like, wow,
that's a celebrity, and half of them you can't recognize anymore.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
I guess i'd been on the Duncan commercial, huh, because
I did.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
For years. I was a Duncan family.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
I still like Dunkin Donuts coffee absolutely, and I was
a big part of my formative years. Then I did
get into the Starbucks world.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
And.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Given given my druthers right now, I hate to admit
that I will stop at Starbucks before Duncan, but I
do understand the Duncan side just talking about like putting
together just kind of even though they were star stud
at the concept behind that commercial I thought was kind
of entertaining too.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
But again, you're you're right.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
I guess glitter Roddy sells these days everybody, whether it's
the music and the personification of wealth. And I just
saw somebody, the owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
I just saw his.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yacht on on on a line on one of the platforms.
I don't know which one it was exactly, but my god,
four hundred foot yacht. I think I read that properly. Yeah,
that's football field plus. So that's that's where we're at.
That sometimes disappointing. However, again it's no different whenever your
sensibilities and your methods aren't met in regards to what

(06:18):
you're watching. Sometimes you want to take the anti stance immediately,
which is really.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
Going to be about my thought of the day, quote
of the day at the very end.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Actually, but I try to I'm really trying hard to
refrain from just creating judgments based on, you know, the
opposite side of my sensibilities and where my belief systems are.
I just want to try to take it all in
and see if at some point I could be swayed
in a sense or convicted in another way based on
a good argument. A good argument, and you know, glitterati

(06:48):
is not a good argument for me. You know, style
without substance is not a good argument for me. So
that's that's where I get conflicted when I watch these
things because I think, for my since i've been able
to actually think in a coherent way, I've always been
over substance over style.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
So I think we're just caught into that.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
We're caught in that genre right now, that method of
living that you know. The younger generations I think are
really caught into that, caught up in that. So that's
where I get disappointed. But again I got to keep
an open mind about.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
It, aim into that and I can't wait now for
the thought of the day. That was a great tease, Joe.
I wanted to get back to what you mentioned about
the quarterbacks and as it relates to baseball, especially with
a guy like Sam Darnold. And as far as Drake may,
you know he did have an injection before the game.
I just think he was compromised a little bit there. Yeah,
Seattle got in his face a lot, and it'll compromise

(07:44):
any young quarterback. I get that. But there were a
couple of throws there, and you know this, Joe's a
former quarterback that he wasn't stepping into that. The ball
just didn't have to me, It's like watching a pitcher right.
Didn't have the command, it didn't have the right spin
on his throws. I mean, a couple of throws where
people wide open, besides the inners that were just like,

(08:05):
where is he going here with this? Just didn't look
right to me. And I'll give Seattle a ton of
credit for that, but wouldn't be surprised if that shoulder
maybe he was barking a little more than we thought.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, when when you're seeing that with a quarterback, I
mean normally and again I didn't play at a very
high level, but I played.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
And when you're when you're.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Seeing the field, well, you're seeing the field and you're
not seeing people right in front of you. And I
think when when the rush gets heavy like that and
you start getting a little bit jittery about it, you
start seeing people in front of you as opposed to
keeping your eyes down field looking for your spots. Whether
it's you know, gaps and lanes and zones, or if
it's man and man which you loved, you try to
take advantage of that with when you have an exceptional receiver,

(08:43):
especially a tall one. So it's almost like the focus
for him was in the wrong spot. I mean, and
of course he was on his back a lot.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Seattle really plays magnificent defense, they really do. I I mean,
that's that's almost like steel curtain stuff that I've been
watching this year, So I can understand a young quarterback
like that in a moment like that, and he's coming
off at tough games. They won that game in Denver,
but the weather was horrible, and I don't know how
much of I was wondering about that, how much of
his psyche might have been impacted by that. You know,

(09:14):
they couldn't move the ball. They eventually won the game.
He actually did a better job of running it than
throwing it at that point. So I think for a
lot of different reasons, his eyes weren't downfield, and you know,
when you get an injection, absolutely there could have been
in the back of his mind, and who knows, when
you get to that point where wherever you get to
that moment, whether it's your arm, your leg, whatever, your hamstring, whatever.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
That you you.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
You know that if I push it farther than that,
it's gonna hurt again. You got to get to the
point where you just you're able to be unconsciously competent,
where you're just seeing it, doing it, throwing it whatever,
running it, and when you have an injury like that,
it just it serves as a governor and it just
keeps in the back of your mind until you become
free of it. So I would say that his eyes

(10:01):
were not focused downfielding up, and a lot of that
was the se responsibility.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, it wasn't a way of throwback game. Right. We're
so used to the big name, big money quarterbacks and
that's where the NFL is predicated on, both in terms
of interest and really winning football for a long time.
Not the case with either one of these guys. I mean,
very good quarterbacks, but you wouldn't call them elite quarterbacks,
certainly not in the top echelon of salaries as it were.

(10:28):
And you had a running back be the MVP of
the game of the Super Bowl for the first time
in twenty eight years. You mentioned the defense. You know,
I thought the Seattle defense was not just great, but
their their scheme was amazing. Like Drake may never saw
Witherspoon coming on those blitzes. They disguised them so well,
didn't walk them up to the line, but had them
coming well off the line and just time them perfectly.

(10:52):
So well coached, well schemed defensive unit rules the day,
even in this in this era of a passing game
with the NFL is But getting back to Darnald, Joe,
I think this is a fifth team, and I just
wonder if you've had any players like this that have
come along that you know, let's face it, he had
a high ceiling coming out of college right drafted very high.

(11:15):
It didn't work out for a while, had to go
many different places, many different coordinators. You know, in baseball
we've seen this, especially with pitchers, and we're seeing a
lot of this now where especially with technology, he can
bring out the best. But from the coaching side, Joe,
we've if you've got a guy, a pitcher or even
a position player on his fourth fifth team, he's late twenties,

(11:36):
he's getting to that point where he should be the
prime of his career. How do you explain someone finally
blossoming like that.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
For me, a lot of times it's it's wow, things
just slow down, They just slow down and all of
a sudden, I think like twenty seven, twenty six, twenty
six to twenty eight is like the prime spot to
get somebody that's always had a high ceiling or considered
a great prospect but has failed to that point. But

(12:04):
when you get him there, I mean they've been throw
through failure to the point where they don't overthink it anymore.
They just go out there and read and react, they play,
and for whatever reason, their confidence just comes on. I
think Carlos Painion for me when you said that really
sticks out going into the with the Rays. That was
it seven or eight that we got him, I can't remember,
but he was a big part of all of that.

(12:24):
Los had been with the the Taggers. I think Oakland also.
I don't know if there was another team involved, but
I remember the conversation specifically with Andrews and living in Brea, California.
Your phone rings were talking and he asked me what
I thought about Carlos Painion. I said, Man, I really
got to love this guy when he when he really catches,
when the ball goes far.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
I thought he was.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
He wasn't fast by any means, but I thought he
was a good bass runner.

Speaker 3 (12:49):
He played the first base.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Grade and then then you get to know him and
the guy's kind of on the really bright side. So
like Los really represents that to me, you know, the
guy that you got to really read through and and
and stay with. I mean Ben Zoebras to a certain extent,
you know, the way we got him in a minor
league deal. She was a major league deal, but he
really beat it around a little bit before he became

(13:12):
Zoe Cyrilla and became the super I thought he's like
really one of the first super U guys that even
when I had him on the All Star Team in
two thousand and nine after winning Are Going to the
Series in two thousand and eight, I really was pushing
for a super utility position on the All Star team
because that's what he was.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
And he was a late bloomer too.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
I think there's a lot of especially relief pitchers, I
think that you see blossom in that particular agent. I'm
just going to go to the two thousand and two
Angels when we had Ben Weber, Brendon Donnelly as a
two great examples of guys that were huge in that
team winning the World Series. Kind of I don't want
to say cast offs, but not the main players with

(13:52):
the organization they had been before. Tough guys. I mean,
these guys were unflappable. They you know, they'd have a
bad night and they'd come back to the next day like
it never happened. I think that was the gift of
experience right there. So if I really thought about it,
there's absolutely Kyle Farnsworth and we had him with the Rays.
Had done some successfully that's been successful I think with the.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
Tigers and some other cubs.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
But when he came to us and became a closer,
just came off a really good season and with the
braz and I remember the slider. All of a sudden,
I kept hearing about a slider slider slider and how
he really developed something with that. And then he came
to the Rays and turned into a really good, reliable closer.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
So there's there's that sweet spot. Man.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
If I'm looking, you know, if I'm looking to acquire
in the off season right now, I'd go for that.
I almost look at birth certificates for bullpen. Guys that
have really never reached their potential, have several, like maybe
three years of experience in the major leagues quite haven't
reached there in that sweet spot of the age group.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
Those are guys that really bear down on Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
I love the Carlos Pena comp there. I mean, Low's
had pitched played with what Texas, Boston, Detroit, Oakland by
the time he got to you and Tampa Bay and
really blossomed into not just a really good player, but
I'm sure one of your team leaders as well, Joe,
So there was certainly a comfort level that he got to.
I remember when he was a young player with Texas.

(15:14):
I remember Alex Rodriguez before he signed with Texas, wanted
a presentation of their minor league system and who was
coming up, and that was the big name there. You
get to play with this kid coming out, Carlos Pena,
And it took a while, but it did happen for him.
Great calling relief pitchers as well. I'm a big believer
in that as well. It usually takes a while for
those guys to find their niche to bounce around a lot.

(15:38):
By the way, Seattle became the first team to win
the Super Bowl with zero turnovers in the postseason. So
I think that's what Sam Darnold did especially well, right,
knowing that you got a defense that can win games
for you, not everybody does protect the football play field position,
and that's exactly what he did. On the other side,
New England turned the ball over three times, allowed six sacks.

(16:01):
Just not going to win any game, especially the Super
Bowl with those kind of numbers. Hey, Joe, I want
to ask you about Tarek Schooble's arbitration here and where
did the Tigers go from here? We'll talk about that
right after this on the Book of Joe. So Trek

(16:26):
Scooble goes to arbitration, Joe, And you know, I've had
some front office guys and some agents wondering when this
was going to happen, because it's pretty much cut and
pace when it comes to arbitration. You compare yourself to
other players in your service time class. They have a
bunch of numbers that they have at the hearing. You
can't bring in any things that are not public, no

(16:48):
proprietary numbers. You can't bring any statcast numbers. It's pretty
darn simple. But in the case when the players like
Trek schoolb will get to their platform season five years
the year before free agency. They can then compare themselves
to anybody regardless of service time, which means he can
talk into that hearing and compare himself to people like
Blake Snell and Zach Wheeler and these guys making thirty

(17:10):
five forty million dollars per year. So he went in
and asked for more than thirty million, and the Tigers
were at nineteen million. I got what the Tigers were doing, Joe.
They were looking at the history of arbitration, saying, you know,
the biggest raise goes back to David Price in arbitration
that was eleven years ago at nineteen point something million dollars.

(17:30):
So they came in at nineteen Well, that was eleven
years ago, and that money, if you factor in inflation,
is about twenty seven million dollars. So I thought going
in the Tigers were going to lose this arbitration hearing.
But good on Scott Boris and Trek Schooboll for going
there and basically taking a swing for a home run
and comparing themselves to the top free agents, because that

(17:53):
hasn't really hadn't happened much at all, if ever, in
spring training, and now it's record setting because now Paul Skins,
when he's a five year player, can go into his
arbitration and compare him off to not just Tarrek scooball
in this hearing, but whatever Tarrek Schooble signs for as
a free agent at the end of this year, and
it's going to start with at least a four, so

(18:13):
we don't see it happen often. This was the right
guy to do it. Two straight Cy Young Award for
Cy Young Award wins for Schooble, and he's not being traded.
The Tigers have a team that can win the American
League and go to the World Series. There's no reason
to break it up and say, you know, we'll try
to make a Wan Soto type deal, move him in
his fifth year. That's not happening. Run it out, play

(18:34):
it out with Trek Scuoble. You know, I thought they
were going to lose. I understood their strategy. I think
there's more about school ball taking a stand here.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yeah, I mean, so, explain this to me, though, What
was the purpose behind the Tigers.

Speaker 3 (18:50):
Money to low ball it so much?

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Are they concerned about Schooble's future in regards to staying healthy.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
I don't think so. I think listening there were some
talks about an extension that was never going to happen. Right,
he's got too much value to sign an extension. To
get your true value as a player, right, you know this,
you have to be a basically a free agent, put
yourself up forbidding, and that's going to happen at the
end of the year. So they tried briefly to sign
the extension. Didn't happen. So now it's a matter of

(19:19):
can they come in with a number that's high enough
where they can settle, And I think in this case
they came in with a low number that assured a hearing.
But again, you know they're working in you know, in
concert with past history of arbitration what the numbers were,
and they're looking at what Jacob de Grom got and
arbitration with David Price got in arbitration. But you know

(19:42):
the free agent contracts for top pictures of what changed things.
So they looked at the universe from an arbitration world,
because people hadn't pushed the envelope by comparing themselves to
free agents. My guess is, Joe, I guess they didn't
think that Derek was going to come in as high
as he did.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
Yeah, I mean down the road.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
I guess what I'm I guess what I'm trying to
understand is they down the road, don't they want to
keep this sky? I mean, this sky is so good?
Who are you going to get better than that? And
although maybe they're not willing to pay that price, that's
going to begin with the four next year. Maybe that's
the overarching point. So then of course you're going to
come in as low as you possibly can right now
and try to you know.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
Whatever, whatever, whatever, however it shakes.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Out, will take that knowing that they're knocking to put
their best foot forward next year, because would you want to,
you know, create even greater warmth and stability with this guy?
You're he's so good. I mean, you're never going to
find that again, so you have to that guy. He
comes along very infrequently, Schooble does. So it's got to

(20:43):
go deeper than that. I mean, what they really envision
down the road, what their comfort zone is spending next year?
Because they just signed Valdez, right, Framber Valdez is he
supposed to be in waiting, kind of a schoolbl guy.
If they lose Schooble, this is like the next best
thing to have. I mean, wouldn't it be wonderful if
you're going to compete on an annual basis with both
these guys being helped what they could potentially do. So again,

(21:06):
it's just another business over baseball decision. You know, if
you in a perfect world, you'd run both of these
guys for the next at least I'd say three four years.
At least I would say four max. You like to
have these guys on your team. And then again, it's
not my money. I get that, but I would I
would think you'd want to really court Schooble in a

(21:26):
way that he just wants to remain at Taggers as
long as you as possible, because this is a this
is an animal that just doesn't or hardly exists anymore.
When you get a guy like that, he could take
you to the Promised Land or at least close on
an annual basis. So I don't know, I know it's
about money, however, gosh, I would just think you'd want

(21:49):
to treat this guy a little bit differently.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
Well, I'm with you on schoolbl I mean he is,
he's an outlier. He's such a competitor. Besides having just
outstanding stuff and control. You know, he's a stuff guy
who actually has great control. I'm with you. He's a
game changer, There's no question about it. I also think
Joe he's the kind of guy where this is not

(22:12):
going to bother him. You know, you walk into a
hearing and a team argues against your value, that's never good.
Not going to matter with Trek Scooble. I mean, he
only knows one way to play. He's a thick skinned guy.
I just think Detroit thinks that their chances of signing
him to extension are not good, that they're not going
to go to this record number for a picture and
it's going to be extended years as well. So it

(22:33):
was a bad look. I will say the optics were
bad Joe when they turn around and immediately basically at
the same time give from Bervaldez almost twice as much
money on an average annual value, right, I mean you're
basically admitting that the number was too low for a
guy who could compare himself to free agent pictures. I
like fran Ervaldez. Don't get me wrong, He's not Tarek Scuoble.

(22:57):
So listen, they wound up with both of these guys,
and that's why I say they're not trading a school.
They're going to run it out with those two guys
at the top of the rotation and wow, and if
they get Framburg Valdez right, look out when you face
that team of the postseason. I mean, Valdez is a
premier ground ball guy. He just cannot throw a ball straight.
I mean it's crazy movement. Now, he does have some meltdowns.

(23:20):
He from time to time he'll lose his focus. He
did not pitch well down the stretch last year for Uston,
lost a little bit of velocity. And John, I want
to get your take on the incident that got a
lot of attention where he basically crossed up his catcher.
Most people thought on purpose, on frustration. And the worst
thing was after he did do that, he basically walked

(23:42):
away from the mountain without showing any concern for his catcher.
You think your first reaction there is, oh my goodness,
that's my guy. And the fact is he is very
friendly with the catcher. But if you watch Fromberg when
he pitches Joe. He is a habit of basically walking
off the mountain when things are not right, and he
will milk that pitch timer as well. It's just his

(24:03):
pH language was not good. I think things had freyed
with the Astros where there were no talks about an extension. Uh,
they sort of lost the player and at that point, again,
he's a voladle guy anyway. You know, we've seen him
lose command and lose composure on the mound from time
to time. It looked terrible. Won't get me wrong, but

(24:24):
I give credit to the Tigers and especially AJ Hinch,
the manager who obviously had Frombert with Houston as a
young player, and AJ sat down with him. I'm sure
they went through it chapter and verse and was convinced
that this was a moment of frustration that you don't
necessarily like but understand. And the fact is there were
two other teams in it at the same level of salary,

(24:44):
so it wasn't like the Tigers were out there on
their on their own making a commitment to from bar Valdez.
I think you're going to see a motivated pitcher pitching
for a manager who already knows him very well and
how to handle him. I think that's really important hit
the ground running in Detroit. And I like the fact
that Detroit Joe really trusted their manager this time and

(25:04):
what his opinion was from a player, that he really knew.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
That Trump's everything right there.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
I think that was the obviously the biggest reason why Listen,
the guy's good. I mean, he may have his shortcomings,
but the guy is really good. I've seen it firsthand.
But I think for the Detroit's comfort zone right there,
it's because of AJ having had this time with Framburgh
and like you said, sat down and discussed it in depth,
and I could just see the honeymoon period is on

(25:30):
right now, so that is very understandable. On the other side,
what he did more than you know, the little temper tantrums,
I learned to not really pay attention to that stuff.
Bobb Aloo, Bob Clear taught me that years ago. Body language.
You know, there's there's certain guys that just demonstrate in
different ways, and you know it's a conversation. You try

(25:52):
to get him back in, but that's just part of
their makeup. I don't like the thing with the catcher.
I don't like the cross up. I don't like that
even a little bit. And we talked about this before,
and I thought that that could have easily resulted in
an actual fight, which would have been justified from the
catcher's perspective. So that that part, that's that's things for

(26:14):
a while. I don't even know if I could really
drop that that's always within his abilities or makeup. So
I think I think it's an aftermath of the petulant
behavior regarding just the little blow ups that he may
have when things aren't going his way, which is it's annoying,
it's annoying, and it's just part of who he is. However,
you got to look past that. You do or you

(26:37):
or you don't. But if you do, I mean, the
guy's still going to pitch. Well, he's going to give
you this number of being's going to be this successful.
He's going to help you get to wherever you want
to be, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But when
you start messing and and yeah, the cross up really
would upset me a lot. So I think Detroit right now,
honeymoon phrase, AJ, we got this straightened out and it's

(26:58):
going to be fine. A couple of years from now
will be the tail of the tape. Whether or not
this really sticks and he adheres to this conversation, Who knows,
But I do like Valdez as a pitcher. The little
tantrums on the field, you never want to see them,
but they can be controlled. But to intentionally cross up
a catch you without any remorse, that would bother me

(27:20):
a lot.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
Actually, that is a loaded staff they have right now.
I mean even a kid like Troy Milton, who really
blossomed in the postseason where you saw the upper nineties velocity,
the mound presence. Kid's got a big arm. You've got
Jack Flaherty now in the five spot in that rotation.
Detroit is loaded when it comes to their pitching. Not

(27:42):
sure about their offense and how good that's going to be.
Wasn't great last year, but they are a factor in
the American League, as are the Boston Red Sox. I
have a hard time, Joe deciding what the Boston Red
Sox are these days. A lot of changes they're going back.
Really it goes back to the Raffeld Devers trade last
year and losing Alex Bregman as well. They bring in

(28:05):
William Contreras, now they just traded for Caleb Durban, interesting
six player deal with the Milwaukee Brewers. I'm not sure
where he's going to play. My guess is Marcelo Mayer
is the primary third baseman in Durban place second base.
But let me tell you all the infielders the Red
Sox have right now, Caleb Durban Andrew Montasterio, who's also

(28:27):
picked up in that deal, Isaiah Kiner Felefo signed it
to free agent Brendan Rodgers. Marcello Mayer mentioned him, Romey Gonzalez,
who has a little bit of a shoulder injury that
needs to be healed. Christian Campbell, Nate Eaton, Nick Soguard,
Anthony Siegler, forgot about Tristan Cassis the first baseman. What
is Alex Core going to do with this group? I mean,

(28:51):
you're a little bit unset. I get it. Story is
your shortstop. Contreras is your first baseman. But there's other
two positions. Man, they got about eight players for two spots.
Do you like that going into spring training?

Speaker 3 (29:05):
Well, what I'm hearing, I think is.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
The Red Sox maybe stepping outside of their comfort zone
being so data and analytically driven. They're going for makeup
baseball players over data, and they're looking for the platoon advantage,
so that if they can't find Bregman, if they can't
find a guy to play against both sides, rightings and
lefties and feel as though he can play productively on

(29:31):
a daily basis, let's do this in another way.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
That's what it sounds like to me.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
I don't know the makeup of these other guys regarding
versus rightings, versus lefties, et cetera, but they have two
stalwarts now at two particular positions. So I think that's
that's what it sounds like. And really it's interesting to
me because Durbin, like, you're talking about guys with like
real makeup guys, hard playing guys, baseball guys kind of Felifa.
All these guys are like baseball more baseball guys than

(29:57):
they are analytical Maven's, you know.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
So that's interesting to me.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
I think maybe Bregman prove that to them that it
goes beyond just baseball talent alone, data analytical talent alone.
We have to have baseball players, good guys in the clubhouse,
guys with good makeup, guys that spread the good word
on a daily basis, they know to expect when they
show up. So that's what I'm reading out of those names.
We go up with makeup baseball guys over data, and

(30:24):
we're looking for a platoon advantage.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Reminds me of the twenty twenty five to around a
Blue Jays right there, you, I mean the way they
played offense. The way they played baseball was put the
ball in play, a lot of interchangeable parts, platoon advantages
for John Schneider to take advantage of. And maybe Boston
is building that kind of offense that doesn't necessarily have

(30:46):
a lot of big boppers, but can just wear you down.
And even look at the outfield for Alex Corey here,
I mean Roman Anthony to me has to play every
day right right to me, he's my everyday love fielder.
I know he's a young kid, just twenty one years old,
but I don't think he needs to be protected. I
think just let him run. You've got Saddan Raffaela in

(31:06):
center field, who is almost as good as just about
anybody defensively in centerfield. I think he's your primary center fielder.
But then you still have Jared Duran, You've got William
or Bray you you've got Matsataka Yoshida. I mean, do
you like these issues? If you're Alex Kora Joe, I mean,
are you with me on Roman Anthony that there's no
reason to protect him against lefties, that that he's the

(31:28):
way he controls the strike zone as a young player,
He's just plug and play for me.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yes, absolutely, But once again, I think they're setting themselves
up to move people around. When you don't want to
spend a ton of dough on one guy, then you
have to, you know, build this whole thing around several
and it just seems like they won't with the ying
and the yang of everybody, or there's just really complimentary
kind of stuff all around the DIAMONDA. Yeah, I would
think Alex kind of digs on this again when you

(31:55):
I don't know if I've had real to a certain extent, Nah,
maybe a little bit in Chicago. But plug and play,
that's nice, And that's when you're able to spend enough
dough that you get guys a positions that are able
to do well well against both rightis and lefties. They
have the makeup and the stability, their bodies don't break

(32:16):
down to play every day kind of like what the
Braves have kind of sought for years. But when you
don't want to go that route and you have to
be more creative, and I think the analytics and analytical
departments in general like that.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
They want that because.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
They they feel more comfortable about that. Again, if they're
not going to spend that kind of dough, it really
permits them to quite frankly, tinker a little bit more So.
I think that's attractive to a lot of departments in
baseball to be able to quote unquote use.

Speaker 3 (32:47):
The platoon advantages.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
And I think that the overarching sensibilities of analytical departments
would be that we can match up in bullpens, we
can match up on offense, you really you know, defensive
replacements later in the game for those that are inefficient.
Those are the kind of things that really stir it
up with different groups in regards to preparation.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Here's the other question I want to ask you, Joe,
when it comes to the ABS challenge system, right, because
the first year we're going to have this system, it's
been in a place in the minor leagues where the hitter,
the catcher, the pitcher could challenge a ball strike call
by an umpire limited basis, it's not every single pitch.
I wonder if this is going to change how the

(33:30):
game is played. In other words, even though there's a
limited number of challenges, you're obviously going to use them
on very key at bets where you can swing your
you know, the expected outcome based on getting a call
reversed and the control of the strikes on which you
know has always been important as a hitter and as
a pitcher. Does that become even more important and does

(33:53):
that help you, at least in the back of your
mind in the building of a team that it's even
more important to have players hitters and pitchers and even
a catcher who have understandings and control of the strike zone.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
Great topic, I would think on the surface, yes, but
I would think it's as a as a hitters concern,
this is just stin slicing it. I think that they
really want those hitters that are able to control it.
I think from a pitcher's perspective, they still want swing
and miss, and I think they're I don't think that
they're going to in their version digress regarding just seeking

(34:31):
velocity and again the ability to have a hitter miss
a pitch which would back off velocity a little different
training methods, et cetera. So I think from hitter's perspective, yeah,
I think the hitter really wants to fine tune that's
rich zone. But I think the pitcher's still going to
rely on hitter's chasing. I don't know if that makes
any sense. So if I'm building, I think I really

(34:54):
want offensive players that are going to stay within the zone.
The pitching side of things that's so built and predicated
on swing and miss one of the you know, the
true outcomes that I think is going to still see
the offensive side being a little bit more contained, whereas
the pitching side, Man, it's just such.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
A big part of the fabric right now.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
To have a hitter swing and missed that I don't
know that they're going to be as concerned about the
ability to stay in his own because that would really
alter training methods.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
I think, yes, I agree with that. On the pitching side,
I do think the majority of this responsibility, let's call it,
will be in the hands of catchers. I think having
a catcher who has an understanding of what the strike
zone is is end game situation as well. Man, that's
going to be a skill that's almost as important as framing.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
Right.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
We've talked a lot for years about catchers to the
presentation of the baseball, and yes it does matter in
some cases, it does get overrated. But in this case,
I think having a catcher back there, and I don't
think it's necessarily an experienced one, but maybe even a
guy who came up in the minor leagues using this system,
but knowing when to pull the trigger on those challenges,

(36:04):
that's going to be huge because I think very few
pitchers are going to challenge the calls and be in
the hands of the catcher, and I think the catcher
has the best view of anybody, even better than the hitter.
So I think a lot of responsibility is going to
be in the in the mind and hands of the
catcher when to challenge these pitches and how to swing

(36:24):
perhaps a game at least account or a situation. Just
more stuff for the catchers to do.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
Joe, that's a good point. Wow.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
I've had catchers that I felt big too much, and
you have certain catchers that if they tell you something,
you really did believe them. So it's almost like there
was the catcher that was always crying for something I
didn't necessarily believe him. And then the guy that was,
you know, pretty pragmatic and only pop popped off ers

(36:55):
said something on occasion.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
He's the guy that'd be more believable.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
So then again, managerial discussion, pitching coach discussion, whomever, bullpen
coach discussion with Ketcher before the game, probably a little
bit more video study involved in this regarding and I
wouldn't be opposed to that the next day replaying close
calls or even going back to like just say umpires,

(37:18):
I mean, maybe it might be even more important to
although it's not going to matter because it's an automatic
strike zone, but you really, guys, you just got to
ask these guys that really understand and not be allowing
their own bias to enter into this thing. It's tough, man,

(37:38):
I mean I know that. As when I used to
really work with Ketcher's back when and I was a catcher,
I was really big on telling my guys, listen, if
the umpire made a good call and it was a ball,
let them know about it. So you maintain this integrity
with the umpire. And then and then if you really
needed or wanted to pitch and you did say something
to the other side list and man, we got to

(37:59):
have that that the Empire might pay more attention to you. Now,
I'm not again with the ABS system, that's going to
be moot because it's going to be controlled in another way.
But the point was just trying to get the catchers
to understand the integrity what you're doing back there in
regards to when to challenge something with the Empire verbally
or not. And I'm just gonna have to really know
my catchers at this point. And I guess the point

(38:22):
you're making AND's but still throwing is going to be
a part of this, isn't it. I mean the ability
to catch and throw throughout runners. I mean, with the
lacks ability for pitchers being able to hold runners in
the more prolific running games that are occurring, guys have
to have decent throwing arms that would believe so great point, Tommy,
I don't really have a strong answer to that, but

(38:43):
I do like you have to be able to read
your personnel in regards to giving them the latitude that
you're looking for.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah, I think it's going to be exciting. I think
the fans are going to love it. I love the
fact that it is in the hands of the players.
You know, nobody's looking at the guy in the replay
room to decide what to do right. This is going
to be part of the skill set for a catcher,
especially some hitters as well. Obviously, guy like Alex Bregman
is famous for knowing the strikes on better than a
lot of umpires. We'll see how that plays out, but

(39:12):
I think fans on the whole are really going to
love this, and you will see some games that swing
on these challenges one way or the other. Hey, I
mentioned earlier on Joe he lost some really giants in
the world of sports. We're going to get to that
and our thought of the day from Joe coming up
right after this on the Book of Joe. Welcome back

(39:41):
to the Book of Joe. Going back to our football
team we started with Joe. You probably saw this. John
Brody and Sonny Jurgensen, two unbelievable quarterbacks. We lost them.
How about John Brodie's career, He was a league MVP,
played for seventeen years, He became the number one analyst
for NBC and oh, by the way, played on this

(40:01):
Senior Tour. Not only played in this Senior Tour, but
one on the senior Tour. What an amazing career from
the former great from the forty nine ers, John Brody.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
I was a big fan Keysar Stadium in the mud,
number twelve, singing and around.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
Man.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
I knew nothing about him really other than the fact
that I loved John Brody and the way he played
football as a passer, very accurate, great touch. There was
just something about him and that those forty nine er teams.
I wasn't a fan of them in a sense, but
there was something mentally mystical about them playing at this
Keysar Stadium in San Francisco a lot of times in

(40:39):
clement looking weather, and they were good.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
Was Hugh Mcaleney one of his running backs at that time?
Was he before that?

Speaker 2 (40:45):
I don't know, but a lot of fun stuff about them,
and I'd read.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
That I was upset.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
It's kind of a marker in time for me as
a when I was a young football player and some
of my quarterback favorites and he was definitely one of them.
So yeah, and the fact that he was such a
good golf for which I'm not but to be able
to do that, play that well there and then actually
be on a Tour, like that's that's really impressive.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
I mean he was when he retired, he had the
third most passing yards in NFL history, and then goes
out and wins on the Senior Tour. Just crazy it is.
And then there is Sonny Jurgensen from the same era,
a real slinger of the football, Number nine, Sonny Jurgensen.
I thought he was fun to watch Joe because he

(41:34):
had a great passing arm. He just threw a great ball,
or something about the way he delivered the ball to
his receivers and the fact that he looked like every
man out there, the single bar face mask, you know,
the paunch hanging over the pants. He was every man
out there, slinging it left and right. And Vince Lombardi

(41:55):
was his last quarterback. Nineteen sixty nine Redskins had Sonny
Jurgensen as their quarterback, Vince Lombardi as coach, and Lombardi
basically said he was the best quarter you ever had.
So Sonny Jurgenson, yeah, you must have some memories of him,
Joe as a guy growing up and watching John Brody,
but also Sonny Jurgensen and the way he just slung
the football.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
I loved the low release point. I loved the way
it came out of his hand. It was just so
incredibly crisp and sharp. Like you're talking about. The phrase
they used a lot today is that he could really
spin a ball. Yeah, and you're right down to the
physical description. Michael Leddy was a broadcaster in Carlisle and
that's where the Redskins used to have spring training for them,

(42:35):
or autumn training whatever. And I glad he used to
actually knew Sonny Jurgenson from that time down there. And
you know, of course he was legendary off the field too,
which always was kind of attractive.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Yeah, he said when he got traded from Philadelphia to Washington,
he said, the bartenders in Philadelphia are wearing black armbands today.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
Okay, that that sums it up right there.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
You know, as a young man growing up in the
seventies and these quarterbacks, you know, I like, I liked that.
I liked the fact that these quarterbacks were bold, aggressive,
kind of risk takers heard a different beat, whether it
was Jurgensen, name it of course, et cetera. And then
my dad loved Bart's starr because it was the antithesis

(43:20):
of all this. But for Lombardi to say that because
I just thought he had Bart Starr and that was
pretty good too, is impressive, but the way he delivered
a football Jurgensen uniquely done and it was just like
slinging is the right, I guess, you know, we heard
of slinging Sammy Bob, but Sunny Jurgensen had this unique

(43:41):
method of delivering the football and gosh, it just it
looked like it was high velocity, It spun great and
was very accurate. So I read that in ninety two
ninety three, I think he was upset me again again
a marker. Remember the football cards were watching him on television.
It was always he was entertaining, man, charismatic, the kind

(44:01):
of athlete that you could identify with as a kid,
and then you know you wanted to be like that eventually.
And so yeah, it's a marker in time. And it's
sad for both of these guys to be gone because
as a kid growing up, I did really I don't
know if I idolized them, but I really paid attention
to them a lot because I thought they were that good.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah, guys like Brody Jurgensen, Nymith. You mentioned they actually
threw a lot of interceptions compared to the game today,
they're willing to take more chances. So you're dead on
with that. And from the baseball world, I have to
note the passing of the great Mark Marquis, the great
coach at Stanford, went back to back national titles there.

(44:39):
Basically he spent a half century at Stanford, starting as
a player, came back as an assistant coach, and then
of course a head coach for forty one seasons. Old
school joe, I mean you know that he was a
guy who he would have his players practice, had a
stand for the national anthem. He would always talk to
them coffee and red meat. Coffee and red meat. That
was the way to live your life. He made sure

(45:01):
his players took their hat off when they came indoors,
no hats, and he was a stickler. He was a
guy who believed in Lombardi time. If you know practice
is at one o'clock, he might actually start it at
twelve fifty five, and if you weren't there, you were late.
So if you weren't early, you were late. That's the
way he ran things. I'm not sure if you could
do that today, but he did that successfully into five

(45:24):
decades at Stanford.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Actually played with Mark in Boulder, Colorado. He was high energy,
clean cut, played it hard. This is I think it
was the seventy five Boulder Collegiates. We won the national
championship him in Baldy, Baldy MUSCHEDI Baldy loved Mark and
that's where I got to know him.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
We were friendly.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
We were friends even when he went out to Stanford,
met up with them a couple of times, or saw
him at different places. I think actually like texted with
him and called him and stayed in touch, but he was.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
In and out.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
He's the libby breathed, live die baseball guy. He had
his methods, his sensibilities, the way he lived than it
was not going to be compromising. Not I love the
fact that they called him nine because I've I've Ruben
Tomorrow played there.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
Doc Davis played there.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
A bunch of guys that I've had in the past
have played for him at Stanford also, and they would
tell me stories about it. I would just giggle. But
I see a real crew cut, square, jod hard playing,
smiled easily guy that I played with in Boulder, Colorado
back in the day. So that again, that that bummed

(46:34):
me out when I saw that I had a look
at his age.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
I didn't really know.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
I can't couldn't remember specifically, wasn't much older than me eight,
So yeah, that's quite a loss.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
Yeah too young man.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
And he was he was a hard playing baseball guy
that then he then he coached it the same way
he played it.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
Yeah, it is another era the multi sport player. He
actually went to Stanford and played both football and baseball
and always was partial to those type of athletes at Stanford,
including guys like John Elway and John Lynch. He got
to Stamford in sixty five. He was a political science
major and his roommate was Mitt Romney, and in the

(47:12):
football team he was the backup to Jim Plunkett, future
Heisman Trophy winner with Stanford. So he did play four
seasons of baseball in the minor leagues with the Chicago
White Sox, but after that really just established his career,
you know, not just coaching, but being a mentor to
so many people. I think it was more than two

(47:34):
hundred players of his and his time there were drafted
by the major leagues. One of his biggest highlights, he said,
was late in his career they brought back more than
one hundred players came back to Stamford to honor him.
And seeing those guys care enough to come back to
campus and across so many different ages all those years,
that to him was even better than winning the back

(47:55):
to back championships in eighty seven and eighty eight.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Yeah, it was a perfect place in time for him
to be. Like I said, just a straight forward, straight up.
There was nothing hidden there. This is what I'm about.
The hats off, I get that one hundred percent button down,
eyes forward, all that kind of good stuff.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
But I do remember a guy that smiled easily.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
He was a great teammate, and I enjoyed the opportunity
to play with him.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
At that point. I was really happy for his success.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
I don't even know if I was surprised by it
a little bit, only because I didn't know him deeply enough.
I didn't know that was part of his potential future
is something that he really wanted to do. But definitely
knew what he knew. This is who I am, This
is how I think. I'm not going to apologize for it.
I'm not going to I'm not going to compromise for this.

(48:46):
This is how I think things should be done and
of course turned it into a magnificent career at Stanford.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
I love the line from Aj Hinch, who played for
him at Stanford. Of course a guy who was that
tough and really a disciplinarian, right, oh yeah, But as
Aj put it, you did not want to let him down.
That to me, Joe is one of the markers of
a great coach, manager, leader, whatever it may be. Where

(49:14):
you know, I think it was Eisenhower who once said
the key to leadership is to get people to do
things they normally wouldn't do but for the sake of
the group. In this case, I think the fact that
you don't want to let your coach down really speaks
to that connection between the leader and the player. And
it certainly sounds like Mark Marquis was one of those leaders.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
It's almost like you knew he was a better person
than you were. You know, he just he was beyond reproach.
He was almost again it was almost like perfect in
a sense. And you're going to disagree with some of
this stuff just because he is so straight laced and
like I said, button down whatever. So you bought in,

(49:58):
you know, you bought into all this again the beginning.
It might be difficult or some things you don't agree
with necessarily because just because of where you come from,
and maybe just you were a little bit more lenient
in your behavior as he was uncompromising. So I think
that eventually the guys would realize that, and then at

(50:18):
some point, maybe not in that immediate moment, but at
some point you would realize he did all of this
for my betterment, and thank god I ran across him
because he did make a difference in my life.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
Good stuff, Joe, and I know we end each episode
with their thought of the day you teased it earlier.
What do you have for us this time on the
Book of Joe.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
Well, this is a little bit longer.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
I'm sorry, but I got this article from one of
my former coaches yesterday and was on be a LinkedIn,
but it was an article by you get the guy's
name right here because I thought it was that good
Owen Kelly.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
He's a.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
Scott with the Cincinnati Reds. And this is a data
versus the heartbeat kind of an article. And I was
talking just briefly in the beginning. This is never analytics
didn't rise because scouting failed. Scouting has always been imperfect,
So this is not a quote necessarily, but maybe like
a little bit of a commentary. Scouting has always been imperfect,

(51:17):
but so as every other evaluation system in baseball history.
Analytics rose because it offered something ownership in front offices wanted.
They wanted defensible decisions, and we've talked about it as
analytics providing a safety net for decision making.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
I mean, this guy had me at that.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
That was like the third paragraph into this article, and
I thought, wow, this is really on point in regards
to which going on his belief is risky. Models are
safer because these scouts offer convictions, dashboards, models and probabilities
make it easier to explain why a player was taken
or passed on. So the reality that's what created the

(52:00):
power shift in the game, where belief of the scout
is risky, where the models are safer, because if you're
an owner and you have all this money invested, you
want something that you can understand more easily and you're
not just going to rely on the belief system.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
Of a scout.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
The next page is to stay with me because I
thought this was outstanding too. What analytics can't measure, analytics
does valuable work.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
There's no denying that.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
But baseball made a critical mistake when it began confusing
what can be measured and what matters most. I mean,
this guy did a great job of sitting down to
putting this together. Analytics can measure exit velocity, spin rate,
launch angle, chase rate, batspeed, no argument. Scouting evaluates make
a baseball IQ competitiveness, poised, adaptability, leadership, how a player

(52:51):
handles failure and pressure. A scout can explain a player
swing path, how the barre ementhers his zone, where it
stays long, whether it will survive elite velocity while the
analytics guy is getting lunched. One evaluation happens in real time,
with context and instinct. The other comes later once the
data is processed and framed. Our cover baseball is and

(53:15):
one by dashboards. It's one by players who don't flinch.
So I again, I'm just what motivated this for me
was the beginning of the baseball season and what we're
witnessing right now. I just thought that this guy explained
it so well, and the last point was I'm just
jumping through this. But numbers explain what already happened. Scouts

(53:37):
tell you what's about to happen. And again it really
comes down to being able to understand and how to
balance both of these sectors, utilizing them both in your
evaluation process within your organization to get to that point
where your balance is achieved and you're getting you know,
you know, you kind of unearthed and expose what you

(54:00):
might like data driven, But then you have to really
understand who am I buying right here?

Speaker 3 (54:05):
What am I really getting into?

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Do all these other components that the real scout has
focused on for years to make up the IQ, the
competitives to poise that's not evaluated numerically, that has to
be that's the human element that has to be watched
and understood, and that comes from years of experience.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
So anyway, great article.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
The guy's name once again a former scout with the
Cincinnati Reds, would I say, Owen Kelly, Owen Kelly, And
I thought, yeah, Owen Kelly.

Speaker 3 (54:33):
I thought was really well written.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
And the motivation was here comes the baseball season, Here
comes spring training, which was my favorite, almost my favorite
time of the baseball year. Was so pure, and you
play the games just to see what's going on player evaluation,
getting your points across, getting the methods involved.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
So cool.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
And so that's why when this coach sent this to me,
I really said, Wow, this is well written, all thought out,
and I thought it was germane appropriate to the time.

Speaker 3 (55:08):
Of the year.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Absolutely, he just brought me all the way back to
the Super Bowl and the commercials that we talked about.
In fact, there is a commercial I'm not sure if
you've caught it watching it of football scouts essentially picking
the player yes from analytics off the laptop. You basically
didn't even need to be there. Anybody could have done
it because they're so happy with themselves because the AI

(55:30):
system is telling him who to draft based entirely on numbers.
And we saw other commercials where AI is literally taking
work away from people and that's supposed to be a
good thing. Things are happening at warp speed now, Joe,
and like it or not, AI has breached the moat
and it is in the castle and it's up to

(55:52):
decide whether this is friend or folk.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Yeah, and again it's also we need to get Laura
Wong on one of these shows, the lady that I
know that wrote the book you already know, professor at
Northeastern Universe City, and she's talking about how intuition, got feeling, wisdom, intelligence,
all those things based on experience is so vital to
CEO coos people making huge decisions for different corporations and

(56:18):
industry that they walk away from the numb driven defensible
decisions and rely more on the scouting decisions where you're
working on poise and intelligence and feel and things that
you can only extract from a conversation you have from

(56:39):
a person. So again, it's a slippery slope, man. There's
so much value to be derived from all the AI stuff.
And then again, it's no different than the telephone and
the social media in general. On the surface, looks like
such a great idea to implementation occurs and all the
pitfalls are exposed. And that's where that's the slope we're

(57:00):
sliding down right now.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Well, you called it. Joe Springtran is here. The next
time we talk, we'll be talking about three of the
best words in baseball this time of year, pitchers and catchers.
We have arrived finally after a long cold winter. Can't
wait to talk to next time as camps open up.

Speaker 3 (57:18):
Joe.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Thanks Tommy, good job, buddy.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.