May 7, 2026 • 49 mins
Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci highlight Joe's road trip from Tampa to PA before diving into some May baseball! The Tigers are facing some hurdles with the suspensions of AJ Hinch and Framber Valdez and surgery for Tarik Skubal. Tom explains the Dodgers' plan for Shohei Ohtani and the impact it's having on his outings. Plus, what happens when you're the SECOND person to make history?
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeart Radio.
#fsr
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hey thereon, Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
To the Book of Joe Podcasts with Me, Tom Berducci
and Joe Madden fresh on the north side of the
Mason Dixon Line. Welcome back to the Northeast, mister Joe Madden.
And I heard you had quite a trip coming up
from Florida.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
We did, and I've lost my Southern accent and back
to the I say us guys now, and I'm saying
Hannah already.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
It was a great trip.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
By nineteen ninety nine American Heritage Fleetwood RV forty five footer,
some new Toyot tires on it, and then had the
Agin redone kind of and then oil changed, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
But it ran great. I was really impressed with the
power everything about.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
It's a sound system is outstanding of six Bows factory
installed speakers from nineteen ninety nine. With this amp and
a receiver, there really great sound as you're driving everything.
It's really like our decoed kind of experience. And it's
all white with like a couple of little stripes on
(01:17):
the outside, which I've never really seen an all white
RV before. This is all the things that turned me
on too. It so yeah, well done, and we just
got to stay on top of her and she'll be
good for many years to come.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Well knowing you, I know it has a killer sound system.
So for a trip like this, what's on the playlist?
What's a good road jam for you?
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Well?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
What what I've been doing lately is before six am
when I get up, I play Pandora, my Pandora mix,
which is normally like the Simon the Garfunkle channel, and
then I switch over to sixties on six for a
bit on the ride, and then eventually, when you've warmed
up a bit, it goes over to like classic Vinyl
and then it gets a little bit more heavy as
(01:56):
a day wears on. So I like to ease into
the day something light, and then as it builds, I
get a little bit more rocking kind of a situation.
But I'm telling you, man, it's it's really it's very
It's a very good way to travel. It's so comfortable
and anyhow, so, yeah, the move I have the music
build as a day builds.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Very nice.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Hey, listen, there's been a lot of news with the
Detroit Tigers.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I want to get to off the bat here Joe.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Regarding loose bodies, loose bodies in the elbow of Terrek
schoobl and loose bodies coming out of the dugout in
a bench clearing incident involving fran Burvaldez. Those are the
two guys you thought. Okay, Tigers are set at the
top of the rotation. Man, you can you can see
them as a playoff team and certainly a dominant post
regular season team with those two guys at the top.
(02:43):
But now we have Schoolball undergoing arthroscopic surgery. We'll get
to him in a minute. I want to talk to
you about the Fraanburvaldez incident because it's not often you
hear a manager after the bench is clear not really
backing the guy who started the incident. Just to recap
for people from Valdez was out there having to eat
(03:05):
it a little bit, having to give up ten runs,
gave up two back to back incredibly big home runs
to Wilson Contreras and will you're a bray you of
the Red Sox. And the next pitch is the first
four seam fastball he throws all year, and it's right
at Trevor's story up around his shoulder. I mean, it
certainly looked intentional, given the game situation, given the type
(03:27):
of pitch to be through, given the location. Everything added
up to, Hey, that looks intentional, and that's why the
bench is cleared. But it was interesting, Joe, and I
want to get your take from a manager's perspective on this,
because Aja Hench, she's a smart baseball guy.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
He knows what's going on.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
He said, Listen, I can't say whether it was intentional
or not, but we play a really good brand of
baseball here and that didn't feel like it. He went
on to say that when you go out, when your
team leaves the dugout for something like this, generally you
feel like you're in the right. I mean, it's typically
the way it is. Both teams feel like they're in
(04:04):
the right. They're defending something. To leave the bench, and
he said, this time, you didn't feel like you were right.
I thought that was very revealing and especially something honest
from aj Hinch.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Give me your take on that.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Yeah, I'm just mulling this because first of all, these
are my notes. Why was he out left out there
for ten runs? That's the thing that I did not understand.
I think their bullpen might have been depleted a bit. Yes,
But first, I mean that kind of like I found
that to be curious. I mean, if he is one
of the guys, which he is, I don't think there
(04:41):
was any kind of discipline there. Has he been complaining
at all that he's been taken out of the game
too early to this point, have you read any of that?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
No, I think you're right, your instinct is right. It's
just it was too early in the name, go to
the bullpen once again early and again this we're going
to get back to the Trek Schooble thing. When you
have schoolb you've got six or seven innings in your
pocket every time he takes the ball, so it affects
the game before, in a game after absolutely, And so
I think yes, I think it was a matter of, hey,
(05:08):
let's see if we can get some more outside of
this guy.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah, because I don't know to what extent that might
have annoyed the pitcher. I don't know, just the conversations
I've seen it in the past where and I'm not accusing,
this is not accusatory at all, this question. You know
where a manager has left that pitcher out a little
bit longer than next time. You get his brains being
a little bit because he's been complaining that he's not
been given an opportunity to pitch more deeply into games,
(05:30):
just saying that I don't and if obviously that's not
what happened here, hitting story pitch better, I mean, if
in fact this is all you know, legit, we're trying
to save the bullpen, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
You give up a.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Couple homers and then as you're you know, you know
this stuff the foreseeing fastball the first one easier to
direct it.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
That seems really blatantly obvious. And I agree.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
When I was with the Cubs, I agree with the
did not feel right. And then when I was with
the Cubbies, you know, we had some issues with the
with the Cardinals for a period of time. There guys
getting hit and one of the lines I use there
not in the lines, but I believe them. We don't
start stuff, but we'll finish stuff. And I'm okay with finishing,
but I don't like starting incidences. So that's what it
(06:15):
sounds like. And that's why I think where AJ was
coming from on that it just didn't feel right. The
fact that we are not only you can't just accuse
us of it. We did actually start this whole thing.
We didn't pitch well, we give up homers and then
we hit one of their batters. So coming out of
the dugout to defend your guy, it just didn't fit well.
And especially in today's game where confrontation and physical confrontation,
(06:36):
it's kind of like going away in a sense, you're
not seeing as many brawls or serious brawls. I think
some of the role changes have something to do with
that tech has gotten in the way or not in
the way.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
But it's a really subtrax emotion. We've talked about that.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Too, so I can understand where he was coming from,
and also was a Jack Ryan moment for him.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I think by.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Saying what he said what AJ did say, it kind
of disarms the whole thing. Now the only guy has
to really deal with there is the pitcher Valdez. His
whole team will support what he said. I would bet.
I would bet that they saw the same thing. They
see it exactly the same way, and probably I would
imagine some of the team leaders mostly'd buy the officer
(07:18):
said something. AJ and passing. Well done. That was the
right way to handle this situation because it seems like
that to me, just disarm it by being upfront about it.
But having to have that conversation with Valdez is going
to be very important afterwards. But yeah, they weren't in
the right. He was in the wrong. I just was
concerned about ten runs from the same pitcher. But that's
(07:39):
been answered, and so yeah, I'm okay with the way
Aj handled it.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Actually, yeah, I do too.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I really appreciate the honesty from Aj Hinch because how
many times do you hear and maybe not necessarily for
the manager from the clubhouse, Hey, there's no intention there.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
The ball just slipped.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I'm trying to pitch inside and the ball got away
from me. Come on, stop, we know, well, you know
what you have to do. It's just kind of face saving,
covering for your guy. In this case, he was not
covering for his picture. And I give him credit for
that because I think it was that obvious. And let's
remember too, Joe, I'm sure you remember the incident last
year with Houston where it seemed he intentionally crossed up
(08:15):
his catcher. Yeah, for giving up a home run and
you know there is And we saw this on the
free agent market. There was some concern around baseball about
Fraandburvaldez controlling his emotions. He's a guy who listened. He's
a great pitcher, but there are times when innings just
spiral out of control on Fredburvaldez, where he can't throw
(08:35):
his strike, where you can see the body language, the
frustration sets in. Yeah, he's got you know, I don't
want to say a temper, but his emotions tend to
run away from him in big moments like that. And
I think we're seeing that again here in this instance.
Here not a bad guy at all. I mean he
is you know who he is. And I think at
(08:57):
this point you just the Tigers kind of learning For
a guy who spent his whole career in the Houston system.
Obviously AJ had him there. He knows it better than
most people in the organization.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
But this is.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Part of the m O with from Revel does he
does get emotional out there on the mountain.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I forgot, I mean I forgot, but didn't forget. You're
reminded me right there about what happened last year. And
this is just another iteration of that, it seems, Yeah,
that was we talked about that last year, and you know,
I think we both realized concluded easily that it was
done intentionally crossing up the catcher. So it's easy to
take that don and connect it to this one where
there was an intentional attempt to hit the.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Batter right there. It's obvious.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
I mean, it's just it just is and the manager
being accountable for not only the team, but the entire
organization in this situation. So yeah, I mean they still
there's still may be a repercussion possibly from all of
this from them for the other timp for Boston back Adam.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
You know, that's definitely possible.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
I don't see like the manager there, Chad asking anybody
to throw at anybody. That would have to be like
a veteran pitcher player kind of kind of like consinuating
to somebody that it needs to be returned. I would
have to bet, based on AJ's reaction, that it's just
going to go away on both sides. It's going to
go away of course within the Tiger clubhouse in a
(10:14):
good way, and then Boston is going to respect what
he did and how we handled it. So it might
have just absolutely cleared up the whole thing and you're
not going to see any more again repercussions from it.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
So we'll see how it plays out.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
But yeah, I think last year it's just a different
iteration from last year's crossing up the catcher.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
So he gets a six game suspension, obviously at six
games because MLB wants him to miss a start, but
it's important to remember that while he has suspended and
he was appealing, we'll see how that turns out. They
play a man short, they play with twenty five and
twenty six through the Tigers, and they're already in a
situation where we talked about schooballs on the ail where
he joins take a deep breath here before I read
(10:54):
this list justin verlind Or, Casey Meiz, Jackson, Joe Troy, Milton,
Reese Olsen all starting pitchers.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
So AJ's got.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
To go back to this pitching chaos formula he used
at the end of the last season a couple of
years ago to try to hold this staff together. In
the meantime, it's not gonna be easy, and the teammates
wind up paying the price for from or missing a start.
But let's get back to Schooble here, Joe, because it's
loose bodies, which essentially is bone chips that kind of
(11:25):
move around to the elbow. He felt it throughout the offseason,
off and on a little bit. Obviously, nothing terrible, because
he did make one start in the WBC.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
He was off to a typical Terrek schoobl start, great start.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
To the season, but then it looked like those chips
just got in a place where it was I don't
know whether it was pressing upon a nerve, but certainly
it was causing discomfort for Terrek Schooble and he was
shaking his arm out.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
They went out and talked to him.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
He finished the inning through the ball great, but then
the next day playing catch. A couple of days later
playing catch, he realized that this is a little more serious.
So they're going in there arthroscopic surgery. You take these
loose bodies out. Essentially, it's going to be at least
two two months, and just add another month to that
because then he has to ramp up with a second
spring training to get himself in position to go out
(12:11):
there and throw eighty five pitches in a major league start.
So you're talking about best case scenario, probably three months
that he's out. Then I think, you know he's going
to join this team late in the second half of
the season, as will Troy Melton and Jackson job who
both also have elite velocity, so they have the potential
if things go right. And it's always risky counting on
pitchers coming back from arm injuries, you know to be
(12:32):
perfectly right when they come back out of the gate.
But on paper anyway, I think they're okay late in
the season. The problem is treading water between now and then.
And last thing for me, Joe on school Ble, I
don't think people are going to call me crazy because
this is actually his third elbow procedure. He had tummy
John surgery, he had a cleanup, and now he's got
another cleanup here.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
His market value is still going to be sky high.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I still think he's going to set a record for
the most money given to a starting pitcher. I'm just
assuming he does come back throws the ball. Well, this
is not a major surgery. It does take time to heal,
but it's not like a reconstructive Tommy John surgery. So
as far as his value, people are saying it's going
to cost him two hundred million dollars.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I'm not buying that.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
You know, if there's some complication as well, yeah, that's
a different story. But we've been down this road a
lot with bone chips, and you might have had pictures yourself, Joe,
who've been out with this.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So I think there he's okay.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
But I think for Detroit in the meantime, they've got
a whole ground in the central and I don't think
anybody's running away in that division, so I think they're
gonna wind up being okay.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, the bone chip thing, that's that's pretty popular for
years and even back in the day that was normally
cleaned up relatively easily, and I think everybody knows within
the industry that it's something that's not it should not
really subtract a whole lot of dough, especially if he
comes back and he throws something similar to her, probably
(13:57):
what he had been doing before. I would even bet
on that, But as you suggest it, just just as
long as there's nothing more than that, that would be
the that would be the situation of the moment, that
that he can't obviously impact the future for him. But
the thing is, I mean, that's a lot of guys.
Are all these injuries among the pictures, are there anything?
Is there any similarities among them? Or is it just
is any of these Tommy Johns? Are they like all
(14:19):
like they're all arm related? Is it some body related?
Do you have any idea on those?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, a little combination of both verlanders and neck. I mean,
he is, what forty two years old? We all feel
as we right older Jackson Joe was Tommy John surgery typical,
you know, twenty one year old out there throwing one
hundred miles an hour in the body just cried the elbow?
Did Troy Melton had a little bit of shoulder inflammation,
no big procedure, but they've had gone slow with him.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
He's young.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I think Casey Maiz might have been a hamstring. So
it's a little bit of this and a little.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Bit of that.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, they're just curious, I mean, because you always question,
you know, programs or methods when something like that happens.
You're right though, I mean, the the chasing of velocity
at a very young age, it's it's almost like it's okay,
it's it's an accept that it's almost a part of
development anymore that a young pitcher comes out starting pitcher,
throws hard, eventually gets surge only because that's the way
(15:12):
this thing works now. But the hammy and things like that,
those are just freaky kind of stuff.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Neck.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
You know, I wake up with the bad neck every day,
so I get that. So yeah, just just curiously on
that point. But they need to get these guys back,
and well, that's a good group. That's a good group
that you just mentioned there, And I would almost bet
they're like you're also suggest that they're they're the division itself.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Nobody's running away. No, I don't think anybody's going to
run away.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
And if they could just hold serve as these guys
get well, you almost get you get to like, you know,
the trade deadline situation, and all of a sudden you
get acquisitions from within the organization. And that was always
kind of cool to always really pay attention to that.
A lot of times the teams that was with, especially
Tampa Bay, we would not necessarily go out and get guys,
but guys would get well, or you'd bring up somebody
(15:58):
pretty cool from the minor league system, which was also
an acquisition in a sense. So I'm betting that they're
going to be able to hold surf for a bit.
That would be my guess. Nobody's gonna run away with
this thing. I don't believe. So yeah, I think they'll
They're going to give these guys time they get well,
but by the time they do get well, they're gonna
be kind of fresh by the end of the year.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Joe, I always love talking and analyzing show Hey Otani,
and especially with you, a guy who's managed him before.
We need to re examine how we look at show Heyotani.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
It's a very different player this year. We're going to dive.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
Into that right after this on the Book of Joe Hey.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe show Hey Otani. Joe,
I think we have to relook how we think of
show Hey because listen, he's thrilled us those last few years,
especially at the plate, fifty to fifty, the six for
six game with ten RBIs, the three homer playoff game
with a moon shot over the pavilion field.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
It's just incredible what he's done at the bat.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
But I think we now have to think about show
Hay being literally one of, if not the best pitchers
image League Baseball. Now, I know the offense has been
quite what he typically is for show Hay, and Dave
Roberts now has been giving him some days off hitting
on the times that he's on the mound. But I
know that, you know, the two way unicorn thing is
(17:30):
still there. But I think if we just examined show
Hay as a pitcher man, he is to me Joe,
he is better than ever and he's doing that when
his velocity is down about a half a tick from
last year and his strikeout rate is down, but he's
become a ground ball pitcher who is depressing slug like
(17:51):
nobody else in baseball. And the thing that jumps out
to me Joe is he is throwing more pitches on
the edges of the plate now than he ever has.
I think we're looking at that like the best version
of show Hay on the mound that we've ever seen.
And it's kind of typical for me, Joe, my experience
watching these guys coming back from elbow surgeries where year one,
(18:12):
which was last year for him, the velocity comes back
almost immediately and sometime to the highest higher level, and
then it takes a while for the command to come back.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
And we're seeing that right now.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Showhy is commanding the baseball, especially on the edges of
the plate, like he never has before. So he is
off to a historic start. You're talking about six starts
here now with an era under one, with forty two strikeouts.
It's only the fourteenth pitcher in baseball history, at least
in the light ball era since nineteen twenty, to start
(18:45):
like this out of the gate. So, yeah, he's still
a great hitter, don't get me wrong. You know, maybe
for seventeen Yeah, sure, everybody goes through a slump. But
I think when we break down the best pitchers in
Major League Baseball, you must have sho Hey Otani on
the short list.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Tell me what you see.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Absolutely yes, I felt that all along and you just
nailed it. Though, to the control and command. That was
the thing that when I first saw him in twenty twenty.
He was coming back off with surgery. We're in COVID camp,
you know, the elongated spring training that we had before
the truncated season, and he was not He has no
(19:23):
command and nothing was coming out of his hand.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Nothing.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
It was really strange to watch. I was seeing him
for the first time. I heard all the you know,
the wonderful things about him, but it just wasn't showing up.
But I think there was some trepidation involve we didn't
want to really cut it loose, and command was just
not good. These lawn darts like some fifty five footers,
even his fastball fifty five footers and whatever. So that's
when I first saw him, and then Malvi. The first
(19:46):
thought I had as his control and command comes back.
Once he controls the commands his fastball, game over, that's
it game over. Because when he knows where his fastball
is going, this other stuff is sick. The other stuff,
the splitter, the sladder to sweep, whatever you want.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
To call it.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
And he and he's got this ability to shape pitches
almost on the fly, like if he just has a
thought the night before he sees somebody throws a ball
that he likes, he'll go up and researching and eventually
be able to do it because he's got such great feels.
So yes, if you're seeing the control and command on
the edges, everything else becomes better because he knows exactly.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Where the ball is going. The hitters really have no defense.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
They're playing offense, but they're actually playing defense against them.
And he's that good. He's that good last point here.
It sounds to me again I'm not talking to him
in a long time, that he's maybe down shifted a
little bit, knowing coming off the surgeries that maybe it's
not just about max velocity all the time. Maybe I
can do this in another way that's going to provide
(20:43):
longevity for me down the road. I could absolutely him
researching it, talking about it, thinking about it, memory, trusts
about it. He would have that kind of a method,
and that he wants to pitch. He doesn't like this
stuff about he has to pick one or the other.
He doesn't like the people think he has to choose.
He knows he can do both. So how do I
do both and remain healthy? I would almost I bet
(21:05):
that's an inner dialogue with him. And this is the
conclusion that you're seeing right now, because even if it's
I'm a half a mile an hour less whatever it
might be, velocity even a mile, but the command, the
control of the pitch really keeps it pretty much at
the same level, possibly even more so. I think it's intentional.
I think everything he does is intentional. It's well thought out,
(21:26):
and it makes sense to me.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I think you're dead right, Joe.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
I mean, listen, he has hit one hundred and one
miles an hour, so it's there when he wants it.
I think his cruising speed, as you mentioned, is just
a little half tick lower. He's actually dead into his
splitter and curveball a little bit more, getting more drop
on that, a couple of miles an hour off both
of those pitches. And you're right as far as playing
defense in the batter's box when he commands, and especially
(21:51):
right now with his fastball, he's commanding. It's a glove
side like it's a video game. And then he has
the highest chase rate of his career because people, he
just forces so many swing decisions when he's on the plate.
There's very few pitches that are just off, you know,
out of a ball out of the hand where a
hitter can dismiss. The other night against Houston, seventy percent strikes,
(22:13):
no walks, eight strikeouts. He got beat on two solo
homers and actually one was a fastball was misplaced to
Christian Walker. But man, I'm totally down with what Dave
Roberts is doing here and that you know, I think
show hey, as you mentioned, his identity is a two
way player. That's not going to change. He's going to
do this for as long as he can breathe as
(22:34):
a baseball player. But there are times, and especially when
he's not swinging it great, where it's such a smart
thing to do to just let him go out there
and have a game where he can just focus on pitching.
And when you're not you know this, Joe, when you're
not swinging the bat, well, you know you want to
get in the cage and grind and work.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Your way out of it.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
You can't do that when you're starting every sixth day.
I mean, there's so much recovery, preparation, you name it
as far as being a starting pitcher in the big
leagues that I think the bandwidth both physically and mentally
it just isn't there to correct something offensively and still
prepare as a starting pitcher. So I like this idea.
(23:12):
I'm not saying they're doing it all the time. There's
no specific plan for this, but there are going to
be times when the Dodgers just tell show, hey, you
know what, just go out and pitch this week, and
you know it's gonna cost him probably sixty to seventy
played appearances. That's four or five home runs. But you
go back to I think it was twenty one with
(23:34):
the Angels when his highest full capacity pitching and hitting
was one hundred and sixty six innings on the mound,
six hundred and sixty six played appearances. Now last year
it was almost at seven hundred and fifty played appearances.
So I think the template is around one hundred and
sixty pitches on the mound, about six hundred and fifty
played appearances. So if you reduce his plate appearances by
(23:56):
about seventy, it's not a whole lot. But again, with
sho Hay's production, you're gonna miss out in some damage.
I think you got a better player, certainly a better pitcher,
and I think right now you protect the idea that
show Hey is not just a two way player, but
he's one of the best pitchers in Major League Baseball.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Yeah, I'm just I would I would like to know
or if part of that decision to not hit also
is because Shoe mentioned something about, you know, his legs
didn't feel as strong that he because that was the
big thing when we first came up with his rules
that he created himself, was that he would let me
know when the legs were not feeling strong, and that
(24:35):
would would be the day that he would not feel
good about either just playing because he's been pitching a lot,
or just being able to do both on the same day.
It was always about his legs. He didn't mention anything else.
That's number one. Number two. They lost that game two
to one, right, he gave up to two homers. Yes,
and he was not in the lineup. See there's that.
That was the other thing he he really believes rightfully,
(24:58):
so that when he's in the lineup, when he's pitching,
they have a better chance to win because of what
he could do with the plate. Also, so that would
be something I'd be curious, is like, how did that
stick with him afterwards? They lose a game two to
one that he only pitched and did not have a
chance to contribute offensively. My bet would be unless he really,
you know, he was a guy that maybe motivated not
(25:18):
doing both at the same time, he might be a
little bit perturbed about that because he's about winning. He's
about winning, and the fact that you know, he wasn't
able to contribute offensively in a two to one game,
he definitely probably thought afterwards, you know what I could
have rustled up a point for a somehow. I know
I may have been over seventeen whatever it had been,
but I still believe in myself offensively, So that would
(25:39):
be just curiously if that would be part of the
conversation afterwards from him to anybody coaching staff or managerial
wise too. So that's that. I mean, it's a legs
issue for me. That's what I we talked about. When
they're a little bit tired. Give him a break, and
then he wants to hit when he pitches because he
feels the team has a better chance of winning.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
I mean, I hope people don't get used to what
he does.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I mean, he was pitcher of the month in April, right,
and you know he also hit six home runs, got
on base, you know whatever. It was forty percent of
the time, even in a quote unquote down month.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Offensively.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
I mean, the leadoff hitter for the Dodgers is the
pitcher of the month in the National League.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
It's just crazy.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
It doesn't happen, right, I mean, it never happened, and
that's list and that's what he signed up to do.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
We know that.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
I'll defend that all the time because when I first
got there, there was so many caveats regarding how to
use him that he cannot hit the day before he pitched,
he cannot hit the day that he did pitch, and
he cannot hit the day after he pitched. And I
was like, wow, that's like three days of no bat,
which could really be very destructive to the other side,
which we've seen. So he signed up to do this,
(26:46):
he wants to do this. I just be curious as to,
other than being zero for seventeen, why they did it.
I don't like to know if it was show hate
coming to them or them coming to show hate, because
for him to go to them, man, he'd have to
be hurting.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
A little bit. Something was off.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
It almost sounds like they're precipitated something like this, But
I don't know that.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
We'll never know that unless you ask the question.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, no, I think you're right. That's my take on it, Joe,
that Dave Roberts it wasn't planned. But the day before
on Monday Night Show, hey actually grounded out to third
base twice. That's only the third time in his career,
the first time in four years. And you know this
as a manager. It wasn't just that he grounded out
the third base twice because you know, the third baseman
(27:30):
essentially plays the shortstop position against show Hey, you know,
with a shifting But I think it was reading the
player's body language. And it was really after that game
that Doc said, you know what, let's and he did
this before it's a third time in four starts. I
think he just saw that, whether it was physically or
just at the plate, just didn't look right. And I
(27:53):
think if you're Dave Roberts and the Dodgers, I think
this is your first time with full on two way
show Hey for six months in the regular season and
hoping to have that in the postseason. You've got to
get your spots to just back off a little bit right,
And this was a good spot when he's not swinging
it well. So give Doc credit. Yeah, I agree with
(28:13):
you with Showy. I don't think he's you know, better
than me. I don't think there's a time where he says,
you know what, I'm better off sitting down right.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
The other thing about the ground balls at third base,
I think part of his over seventeen was asked. I
was asking some questions, is that a lot of it's
been rollover pole kind of stuff for pulling off stuff
right swing and miss, and that It's almost like I
wouldn't I'd be interested to know if show Hay intentionally
was just trying hit the ball hard on the ground
the other way, just to get himself back on the ball,
(28:42):
because when I had him with the Angels, my first
year with him, when he was hurting a little bit,
struggling a little bit, I would say, see those rocks
in left center. The rocks are your friends, those are
your buddies. You try to hit those rocks with the
line drive every time you go up there, just to
try to get him back inside the ball. Because you
watch him, man, when he stays inside the ball and weighs,
you know, the hands trailed and then all of a
(29:02):
sudden the bat flips and the ball goes high to
the left central. I mean that's when he's on So
I you know, again, this is just reading the tea
leaves a little bit. It looks like he was either
the interpretation maybe that his bat looks slow, but was
he really just trying to hit the ball the other way?
Because this guy thinks all the time and he's always intentional.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Hey, Joe, you know the look a team has when
it's going well right like, no matter what the score is,
and you've had teams like this, you feel like you're
gonna find a way to win the game.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
The Cubs have that look right now. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
They've won three straight walkoff games against Cincinnati's the first
time since nineteen forty three the Cubs beat the same
opponent three straight games and a walk off. They can't
be beaten at Wrigley Field. They're eighteen and three in
their last twenty one games. I like watching this team play, Joe.
(29:58):
I mean with the production they get up and down
the lineup, and they did it again with pie Crow
Armstrong tying the game with a to run homer in
the ninth inning. They're as good as anybody but the
Dodgers in terms of seven, eight, nine productions.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
So the lineup's turning over.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
They put the ball in play a lah the twenty
twenty five Toronto Blue Jays, and we know they're a
terrific and every really terrific defensive team. But what I see, too, Joe,
is they've got that in factor right now. The Cubs
are playing with tremendous confidence. Give me your take and
what you see at this team, agreed.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
I mean I was just actually thinking that this morning.
I was looking at the recaps video wise, and yeah,
I mean the way they're coming back, how they're coming back,
the energy, and I do like their guys.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
I think their guys are legit.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
They're charismatic, not unlike the twenty sixteen group that we
did pretty good with. That's what I'm seeing. And like
you said, it goes up and down the lineup. They're
missing you know, hort and a key pitcher, so and
they're still and it Steel's coming back too, correct.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah, they just lost Matthew Boyd to a knee injury
while he's playing with his kids.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
But yeah, Steel should be coming back, you know, June July.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Yeah, I said, all that stuff is good, but I
liked how they're playing. I like their energy a lot.
Bregman obviously great addition, but don't underestimate resigning Nico Horner
and what that does for them. I I believe he's
the glue guy there. Bregman is a He's historically been that.
But I think more specifically that team without Nico right
(31:23):
now would be good, but not doing these kind of
things right now that they are he's his bat has
really come up. I mean I've seen several pull home runs.
Not that you're looking for power from him, but he's
being able to do that. His defense is extraordinaries. Just
his attitude. He competes this guys, they have competers. That's
I love their infield. I mean I mentioned that during
(31:46):
the Cup Convention while I was there, Bregman there, hornets
and then at second and of course Swanson and Bush.
That's that's legit that that that plays every day. Because
these are real guys. These are real baseball guys. It's
not just they're just not analytical Maven's. They're baseball guys.
And I love that. And then an Armstrong had to
have a long conversation with him, uh while we're waiting
(32:07):
to go on stage with the Cup Convention. Really liked
it a lot. I never you know, I would have
no idea what to expect, but very ingratiating young man.
And he's a baseball historian. He loves the game and
he knew things about even back in the day with
the Angels when I was there and talking about the
first time through and he was probably just out of
(32:28):
diapers by that time, but he just really, he's a
solid human being.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
Man. I liked him a lot. And then there there's
there outfield.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
I mean he's just I'm watching some balls just jump
off the bat there, I mean, killing some stuff. So yeah,
there they got a lot of good things going on
right now.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
And their catcher was at Kelly right he's like I
mean when he's with the Diamondbacks, nice nice player, but
all of a sudden he's found baseball hitting Jesus.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
I mean he's crushing the ball on different occasions. So
they they got, they got that. They I agree the
it factor. I like to use the word charismatic. I
think they are. I think they're going to feed off
the city of Chicago. If you could dominate at Wrigley,
Mike God, what if vibe that would create? And yes,
I agree on all counts, they look that good right now.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
On the other end of the spectrum, the Houston Astros look.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
To be in trouble now.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
In the past years, when you said that this time
of year, you know you would get burned because the
Astros know how to run the marathon. A veteran team,
been there, done that. But I gotta tell you, Joe,
it's tough the injury now to Carlos Correa, who was
taking batting practice and tore an a tendon in his ankle.
He's gone for the year with ankle surgery. It's a
(33:44):
different ankle than the one that caused all the commotion
with medical personnel when he was a free agent with
the Giants and the Mets. They're fifteen to twenty three.
Hunter Brown has just started playing long toss. He's not
coming back soon. They are getting Jeremy Pania back soon,
so that'll help the infield situation. But Josh Hater still out.
(34:05):
He's on a rehab program. Yainr Diaz, Jake Myers, Tatsuya Amaya,
the picture they signed out of Japan is having all
kinds of trouble adjusting to major league life and pitching.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Christian Hobber is out. I mean, the injuries.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
For this team and probably the worst I've seen of
any team this year. Again careful counting out the Houston Astros,
but this looks like a team that's in trouble.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
What do you think of the Astros?
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah, I'm in you're obviously that's that's a great presentation,
But like you also said, they have this way. These
guys will be if they're all able to come back
at some point. Those are the in season acquisitions that
you're looking for, and all of a sudden, the entire
method could turn around completely, which they've done in the past.
(34:54):
The biggest thing right now was to stay as close
as you possibly can to not dig such a large
hole that it's impossible to fight on back into that
divisional race. So yeah, I right on with everything. However,
their history always tells you that they're able to pull
the rabbit out of the hat somehow, and and if
they were really well and everybody's healthy and they were
(35:16):
struggling like this, that'd be a different story completely. But
the fact that they're missing some really key elements and
that as long as these like if Hater's on rehab
right now, that makes the bullpen better, not just because
of him, but it backs everybody up but earlier into
the game that matters. So yeah, I wouldn't count them
out yet because of that, the fact that they have
people coming back, But it's not gonna be easy.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Man.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
When you it's it's like a basketball game. You dig
that first half hole, you fight really hard to get
back into the game in the fourth quarter only to
lose by you know, five or six points at the
end because you just run out of gas. I mean,
there are no field stations along the way in Major
League Baseball. Once you run out of gas, you're out
of gas. You just you just you're not permitted to
stop and refuel again. So that would there's a chance.
(35:59):
But everything's gonna have to click right for them.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
We're gonna take a quick break here in the Book
of Joe.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
I want to ask, Joe, does the name John Landy
mean anything to you?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Does that ring a bell at all?
Speaker 1 (36:10):
John Landy la and d y la and d y Yes, No,
I don't remember that name. Okay, well, we're going to
fill you in, and it shouldn't by the way, because
I want to point out how second place it's right
behind first place, right, but there are miles and miles
between first and second. I'll explain that right after this
(36:45):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. I mentioned John Landy.
You know the name Roger Banister, right, Yes, I do.
Roger Banister, the runner, first guy to break four a
minute mile. Yeah, Well, John Landy got their second forty
six days later he broke Roger Banister's record. You're a
little too late when you're second, right, So he's forgotten
(37:08):
in history. First man on the moon, Neil Armstrong. Everybody
knows that. Do you know who was second?
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Jack Handy buzz Aldrin was second.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
I bring this up because I don't know if you
saw this a couple of weeks ago, the London Marathon.
This is the first time in human history somebody broke
two hours, ran the marathon in less than two hours.
Sebastian Sawway of Kenya. I mean that is a big deal.
That's the equivalent of Roger Bannister breaking the four minute
mile years and years ago.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
But in that same race.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
I'm bringing this up because in that same race, a
guy from Ethiopia, Yomi Kajelka, he finished also under two hours.
He finished in the second place. I mean he is
forgotten in history. The same day that he got under
two hours. So timing is literally everything, especially marathons. But
(38:06):
it happened to run the greatest race ever run except
for the same day when Sebastian Saway beat him.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
But about nine seconds, how about that.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
I'm looking out my window right now, I'm looking towards
Wilke Spara, from where I'm sitting right now, which is
about twenty six miles away, and I can't even imagine
running there.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
It's less than two hours. That's that's just an incredible thought.
Are these are these marathon tracks? Is there any hills involved?
Was a pretty flat all the time?
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Well, London is known as more of a flatter course.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
They had perfect weather, but yes, I think that the
conditions were ideal for running a marathon that day. To
take nothing away from it, it is a fully sanctioned marathon, right,
but yeah, just to give you some perspective, back in
nineteen o six, the world record for the marathon was
two hours and forty two minutes.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
But there was no Kenyons running back then, right, there
was no Was there any Kenyons running back there?
Speaker 4 (39:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (39:03):
All about that.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
But there's an issue with the shoes running shoes these days.
I don't know if you've heard about this.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
I have not.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
They have carbon plates in running shoes now and other materials.
They're so light shoes nowadays they weigh three point four ounces.
Like Adidas, who sponsors Saway, says when they give a
new box of shoes to their runners, the runners think
it's a prank. They think there's nothing inside of it.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
It's so light it feels like it's empty.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
But there is almost like a trampoline effect with the
carbon plate in the running shoes. Now, so between the
lightness of the shoe and the bounce back ability that's
in these carbon plates, they're lighter in spring area the shoes.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
So maybe a purist scoffs at it.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
I still think it's amazing that you could run twenty
six miles in less than two hours.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
Absolutely, And how about then Seinfeld when they set the
alarms and the electricity got the breaker went out because
Kramer was in his own little hot tub and is
on his side of the apartment building.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
That I think about that marathon runner.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Everything comes back to Seinfeld all the time, anyway.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
It really does.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
But I mean, right a technology, I mean, that's what
over forty six minutes off the record from back in
the day. I mean, they say, you know, golf balls
are flying close to four unite yards right now, and
you know, I guess, you know, baseball there is you know,
I don't even know if the balls are hit. You know,
there's all this discrepancy about you know, pitches thrown in
the velocity that we talk about all the time. And
(40:38):
then there's controversy about where the ball is being measured
from out of the hand and as opposed to at
home plate, because back in the day we had guns
that would take it out of the hand and roll
back to the velocity at the place. So there's different
ways of measuring, I guess. But and then like we're
talking to where the runners come from. I mean, Kenyon's
these kids have been running their whole life, probably not
(40:58):
that we didn't more back in the day, but it's tech.
It's its evolution in a sense, I guess, it's just
different groupings.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
Who's who's involved in a race now that wasn't involved
back then.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
It's fascinating because to me that that's like the bike
race and the French what.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
Do you call the France thank you? I watched that
and I'm baffled. I mean, how they do that?
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Me and Preston Gomez because I used to ride a
bike a lot and Preston we would sit there during
the Tour de France and just would be in awe
of like these riding the bike that oft in those
distances that many days in you know, in a row
or how many days they took to complete at the hills,
the mountains, whatever, up and down.
Speaker 4 (41:39):
Wow, that was like that.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
We thought that might have been the most difficult accomplishment
in all of sport. Then hear about a guy running
the marathonal less than two hours. It's I guess when
you really challenge the human spirit somehow, Uh, that's the
that's the number, that's the goal. You got to beat
it somehow, And I think over the course of time,
of course it's going to be beaten, just through technology
and just sure sure will. So it's interesting, it's very interesting,
(42:04):
And congrats to the number one end number two. When
you said about the number two, I can think about it.
Is anybody realize that the Phillies beat the Rays in
the two thousand and eight World Series.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
There you go, you can relate to it, or a
society that loves the st ees t at the end,
you know, the biggest, the fastest, the strongest. There you go,
even on the other end of the spectrum like the
worst of things. But if you're just a shade behind
the best, you tend to be forgotten.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Yeah I haven't forgotten.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
Your race, thank you.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
But especially the way that World Series ended was.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
It was kind of the weather was kind of awkward
at that It was kind of awkward.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, well, speaking of ending, what do you have for
us today to end this episode of the Book of Joe.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
You know, I was I'm going back to a little
bit of tried and true and just watching everything that's
going on right now, and we recapped it pretty much,
the whether it was the fight and why that happened,
you know, the division race itself, Houston having to come back,
and how do you do these things? What's what's the secret,
what's the I always talk about balance, but also talk
(43:07):
about simplicity too, And you know, the version that I
came up with was to do simple better. But I
love Leonardo da Vincia, and I might have used this
in way in the past, but simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
And then there's another one towards the bottom. I don't
know who the who said it, but one must learn
to be simple. Anyone can manage to be complex, It's true,
(43:30):
you know, to really culd things down and simplify, reduce, reduce,
reduce as a teacher, as a coach, as a mentor whatever.
Be able to do that and make your presentation in
fewer words really could make all the difference in the world,
because we always have this tendency to want to believe
the answers there are something complex or convoluted.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
So I just stuck. Struck with me.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
This stuck with me this morning as I was reading,
I did my morning stuff starting at five am, and
the word simplicity really came to mind. Part of it
was the fact we just got back from Florida, and
I mean I got stuff everywhere in the RV, in storage,
all laying all over the house, stuff in storage down
in Florida, and I'm thinking, you know, you get like
(44:13):
on this treadmill hamster wheel that you want to get
everything done right now, and it ain't gonna get done
right now, Okakes. I also want to play golf today, so
really try to simplify. It is the ultimate sophistication, as
mister da Vinci had said, and I absolutely believe that
to be true.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Man, We're on the same wavelength because I saw a
quote from Paul's Schemes today along those same lines. Scheme
pitched an incredible game as usual. Don't want to take
him for granted either against Arizona. I think it was
eight shutout innings.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
It was.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
But when in describing his outing, he said, it's not easy,
but it's simple.
Speaker 4 (44:53):
Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Now, it sounds contradictory, right, but what he meant was
the idea of getting ahead of hitters.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
It's it's simple, but it's not easy.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
But if you can and do that, that's the key
for his pitching, right And I love the way that
he put that, saying that it's not easy to do,
but the concept is simple. It's a basic concept of pitching.
It's always been true, no matter how hard guys throw,
the matter how much they spin the ball, Baseball is
a game, you know, this Joe of controlling count leverage.
(45:26):
So much of the game pivots around count leverage. Paul
Skins a great stuard of the game. I just love
the way he put that, It's not easy to do,
but it's simple.
Speaker 4 (45:35):
Analog baseball. That's what he's describing right there, right, that's
an analog moment. I love that.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
That is pure genius. You know, that's one of those
things that you wish you had said. That's right on
the money. And regarding that game, you know, I was
reading along the way and watching like little different pop
ups that he was pitching so well, he went eight
and like right around one hundred pitches. See for me,
I don't know that would be. And I don't know
(46:01):
how he felt. I don't know what he said, I
don't know, I don't know anything. But that's a perfect
opportunity for nine innings for him right there. I thought
it was like right around a HUNDI I mean it's
I'm looking. I was looking through all the different box
scores again today and we really have I don't know,
it's evolved or evolved whatever you want to call it,
into one hundred pitch exercise. That's pretty much pretty much
what starting pitching has gotten too.
Speaker 4 (46:23):
It was on the way for a while.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Everybody gets kind of freaky when a guy throws a
hundred pitches and it's almost like, oh, he can't go
one to five, he can't go one away, he can't
go one ten. I remember which James Shield Shields always
wanted to pitch complete games. My problem with that was
when he got done, it's weirdly like I thought one
hundred and eight pitches, stuff would start happening badly for him.
Speaker 4 (46:42):
So that was my moment.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
But then I wanted him to fight through that, and
he did, and he started pitching complete games, became an animal.
So that's this guy's already pitching animal. I get that.
But that was a perfect opportunity. I thought to just
let him go nine. Unless there was something he was
fatigued and they saw it whatever, then you'd absolutely take
him up something he might have said on the bench.
But I thought it was a purer opportunity to really
(47:05):
complete a great day of analog baseball.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yeah, I'm with you, Joe, because you know, and I
know it's May now and it's Paul Skiings, but he's
made sixty three major league starts. He does not have
a nine inning complete game. His pitch count was manageable.
He did strike out the side of the previous inning,
so I think he threw seventeen pitches that inning, and
(47:29):
Don Kelly after the game mentioned that his velocity was
down in that last inning. Listen, in this case, I'm
on board with you. I think not that Paul Skins
needs a boost to his ego, but that was a
situation where give him the chance to go out there
and throw that ninth inning, and I think you've got
even more of a beast if he does that. I again,
(47:51):
if somebody gets off base in that ninth inning, fine
you get him out.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
They brought in Greg Riisoa to finish the game. But yeah,
in this case, I do think there's value. Now if
they thought he was fatigued, yeah, sure.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
I mean, they have more info and on that than
I do.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
But yeah, it was something I thought about to consider it.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
I know you're a big believer in that, in that
once you break through that ceiling essentially to run that
marathon in less than two hours, you got yourself a
beast of a pitcher.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
Yeah, and it was the tougher part is the one
nothing game.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
I mean, you just talked about if somebody gets on
and that's you have to weigh all these considerations at
that particular juncture. So for me, that would be it
would have been developmental if he was well enough to
do it. Developmentally speaking, pitching the nine innings, it's a
mind one stretched has a difficult time going back to
its original form.
Speaker 4 (48:42):
I've stretched. I like nine innings.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
I want nine innings every time I go out there
because I know I can do it and I know
what it feels like walking off. So but at one
nothing game, just one runner on and then all of
a sudden you put the relief pitcher into a more
difficult situation. You want to get a clean inning. There's
you could you could debate this to the cows come
home regarding what's the right or the wrong thing to
do and that moment. I'm just talking from developmentally, a
(49:07):
real stud picture, you know, it could be the best
picture of this generation talked about show. Hey, obviously he
is right up in a conversation school, but whatever.
Speaker 4 (49:16):
But I like the idea of him going out there.
I know they're kind of in contention right now. They
are in contention. I mean they're playing well, they're about
three games over five hundred something like that.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
But anyway, I just think the mind one stretch is
really a great concept that I always love to try
to push my starters to be.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Able to do that great job. We'll see you next
time with the Book of Joe.
Speaker 4 (49:37):
All right, Tommy, you be well, buddy. Thanks.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeart Radio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hey thereon, Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
To the Book of Joe Podcasts with Me, Tom Berducci
and Joe Madden fresh on the north side of the
Mason Dixon Line. Welcome back to the Northeast, mister Joe Madden.
And I heard you had quite a trip coming up
from Florida.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
We did, and I've lost my Southern accent and back
to the I say us guys now, and I'm saying
Hannah already.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
It was a great trip.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
By nineteen ninety nine American Heritage Fleetwood RV forty five footer,
some new Toyot tires on it, and then had the
Agin redone kind of and then oil changed, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
But it ran great. I was really impressed with the
power everything about.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
It's a sound system is outstanding of six Bows factory
installed speakers from nineteen ninety nine. With this amp and
a receiver, there really great sound as you're driving everything.
It's really like our decoed kind of experience. And it's
all white with like a couple of little stripes on
(01:17):
the outside, which I've never really seen an all white
RV before. This is all the things that turned me
on too. It so yeah, well done, and we just
got to stay on top of her and she'll be
good for many years to come.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Well knowing you, I know it has a killer sound system.
So for a trip like this, what's on the playlist?
What's a good road jam for you?
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Well?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
What what I've been doing lately is before six am
when I get up, I play Pandora, my Pandora mix,
which is normally like the Simon the Garfunkle channel, and
then I switch over to sixties on six for a
bit on the ride, and then eventually, when you've warmed
up a bit, it goes over to like classic Vinyl
and then it gets a little bit more heavy as
(01:56):
a day wears on. So I like to ease into
the day something light, and then as it builds, I
get a little bit more rocking kind of a situation.
But I'm telling you, man, it's it's really it's very
It's a very good way to travel. It's so comfortable
and anyhow, so, yeah, the move I have the music
build as a day builds.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Very nice.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Hey, listen, there's been a lot of news with the
Detroit Tigers.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I want to get to off the bat here Joe.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Regarding loose bodies, loose bodies in the elbow of Terrek
schoobl and loose bodies coming out of the dugout in
a bench clearing incident involving fran Burvaldez. Those are the
two guys you thought. Okay, Tigers are set at the
top of the rotation. Man, you can you can see
them as a playoff team and certainly a dominant post
regular season team with those two guys at the top.
(02:43):
But now we have Schoolball undergoing arthroscopic surgery. We'll get
to him in a minute. I want to talk to
you about the Fraanburvaldez incident because it's not often you
hear a manager after the bench is clear not really
backing the guy who started the incident. Just to recap
for people from Valdez was out there having to eat
(03:05):
it a little bit, having to give up ten runs,
gave up two back to back incredibly big home runs
to Wilson Contreras and will you're a bray you of
the Red Sox. And the next pitch is the first
four seam fastball he throws all year, and it's right
at Trevor's story up around his shoulder. I mean, it
certainly looked intentional, given the game situation, given the type
(03:27):
of pitch to be through, given the location. Everything added
up to, Hey, that looks intentional, and that's why the
bench is cleared. But it was interesting, Joe, and I
want to get your take from a manager's perspective on this,
because Aja Hench, she's a smart baseball guy.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
He knows what's going on.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
He said, Listen, I can't say whether it was intentional
or not, but we play a really good brand of
baseball here and that didn't feel like it. He went
on to say that when you go out, when your
team leaves the dugout for something like this, generally you
feel like you're in the right. I mean, it's typically
the way it is. Both teams feel like they're in
(04:04):
the right. They're defending something. To leave the bench, and
he said, this time, you didn't feel like you were right.
I thought that was very revealing and especially something honest
from aj Hinch.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Give me your take on that.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Yeah, I'm just mulling this because first of all, these
are my notes. Why was he out left out there
for ten runs? That's the thing that I did not understand.
I think their bullpen might have been depleted a bit. Yes,
But first, I mean that kind of like I found
that to be curious. I mean, if he is one
of the guys, which he is, I don't think there
(04:41):
was any kind of discipline there. Has he been complaining
at all that he's been taken out of the game
too early to this point, have you read any of that?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
No, I think you're right, your instinct is right. It's
just it was too early in the name, go to
the bullpen once again early and again this we're going
to get back to the Trek Schooble thing. When you
have schoolb you've got six or seven innings in your
pocket every time he takes the ball, so it affects
the game before, in a game after absolutely, And so
I think yes, I think it was a matter of, hey,
(05:08):
let's see if we can get some more outside of
this guy.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah, because I don't know to what extent that might
have annoyed the pitcher. I don't know, just the conversations
I've seen it in the past where and I'm not accusing,
this is not accusatory at all, this question. You know
where a manager has left that pitcher out a little
bit longer than next time. You get his brains being
a little bit because he's been complaining that he's not
been given an opportunity to pitch more deeply into games,
(05:30):
just saying that I don't and if obviously that's not
what happened here, hitting story pitch better, I mean, if
in fact this is all you know, legit, we're trying
to save the bullpen, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
You give up a.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Couple homers and then as you're you know, you know
this stuff the foreseeing fastball the first one easier to
direct it.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
That seems really blatantly obvious. And I agree.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
When I was with the Cubs, I agree with the
did not feel right. And then when I was with
the Cubbies, you know, we had some issues with the
with the Cardinals for a period of time. There guys
getting hit and one of the lines I use there
not in the lines, but I believe them. We don't
start stuff, but we'll finish stuff. And I'm okay with finishing,
but I don't like starting incidences. So that's what it
(06:15):
sounds like. And that's why I think where AJ was
coming from on that it just didn't feel right. The
fact that we are not only you can't just accuse
us of it. We did actually start this whole thing.
We didn't pitch well, we give up homers and then
we hit one of their batters. So coming out of
the dugout to defend your guy, it just didn't fit well.
And especially in today's game where confrontation and physical confrontation,
(06:36):
it's kind of like going away in a sense, you're
not seeing as many brawls or serious brawls. I think
some of the role changes have something to do with
that tech has gotten in the way or not in
the way.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
But it's a really subtrax emotion. We've talked about that.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Too, so I can understand where he was coming from,
and also was a Jack Ryan moment for him.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I think by.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Saying what he said what AJ did say, it kind
of disarms the whole thing. Now the only guy has
to really deal with there is the pitcher Valdez. His
whole team will support what he said. I would bet.
I would bet that they saw the same thing. They
see it exactly the same way, and probably I would
imagine some of the team leaders mostly'd buy the officer
(07:18):
said something. AJ and passing. Well done. That was the
right way to handle this situation because it seems like
that to me, just disarm it by being upfront about it.
But having to have that conversation with Valdez is going
to be very important afterwards. But yeah, they weren't in
the right. He was in the wrong. I just was
concerned about ten runs from the same pitcher. But that's
(07:39):
been answered, and so yeah, I'm okay with the way
Aj handled it.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Actually, yeah, I do too.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I really appreciate the honesty from Aj Hinch because how
many times do you hear and maybe not necessarily for
the manager from the clubhouse, Hey, there's no intention there.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
The ball just slipped.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I'm trying to pitch inside and the ball got away
from me. Come on, stop, we know, well, you know
what you have to do. It's just kind of face saving,
covering for your guy. In this case, he was not
covering for his picture. And I give him credit for
that because I think it was that obvious. And let's
remember too, Joe, I'm sure you remember the incident last
year with Houston where it seemed he intentionally crossed up
(08:15):
his catcher. Yeah, for giving up a home run and
you know there is And we saw this on the
free agent market. There was some concern around baseball about
Fraandburvaldez controlling his emotions. He's a guy who listened. He's
a great pitcher, but there are times when innings just
spiral out of control on Fredburvaldez, where he can't throw
(08:35):
his strike, where you can see the body language, the
frustration sets in. Yeah, he's got you know, I don't
want to say a temper, but his emotions tend to
run away from him in big moments like that. And
I think we're seeing that again here in this instance.
Here not a bad guy at all. I mean he
is you know who he is. And I think at
(08:57):
this point you just the Tigers kind of learning For
a guy who spent his whole career in the Houston system.
Obviously AJ had him there. He knows it better than
most people in the organization.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
But this is.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Part of the m O with from Revel does he
does get emotional out there on the mountain.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I forgot, I mean I forgot, but didn't forget. You're
reminded me right there about what happened last year. And
this is just another iteration of that, it seems, Yeah,
that was we talked about that last year, and you know,
I think we both realized concluded easily that it was
done intentionally crossing up the catcher. So it's easy to
take that don and connect it to this one where
there was an intentional attempt to hit the.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Batter right there. It's obvious.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
I mean, it's just it just is and the manager
being accountable for not only the team, but the entire
organization in this situation. So yeah, I mean they still
there's still may be a repercussion possibly from all of
this from them for the other timp for Boston back Adam.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
You know, that's definitely possible.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
I don't see like the manager there, Chad asking anybody
to throw at anybody. That would have to be like
a veteran pitcher player kind of kind of like consinuating
to somebody that it needs to be returned. I would
have to bet, based on AJ's reaction, that it's just
going to go away on both sides. It's going to
go away of course within the Tiger clubhouse in a
(10:14):
good way, and then Boston is going to respect what
he did and how we handled it. So it might
have just absolutely cleared up the whole thing and you're
not going to see any more again repercussions from it.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
So we'll see how it plays out.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
But yeah, I think last year it's just a different
iteration from last year's crossing up the catcher.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
So he gets a six game suspension, obviously at six
games because MLB wants him to miss a start, but
it's important to remember that while he has suspended and
he was appealing, we'll see how that turns out. They
play a man short, they play with twenty five and
twenty six through the Tigers, and they're already in a
situation where we talked about schooballs on the ail where
he joins take a deep breath here before I read
(10:54):
this list justin verlind Or, Casey Meiz, Jackson, Joe Troy, Milton,
Reese Olsen all starting pitchers.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
So AJ's got.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
To go back to this pitching chaos formula he used
at the end of the last season a couple of
years ago to try to hold this staff together. In
the meantime, it's not gonna be easy, and the teammates
wind up paying the price for from or missing a start.
But let's get back to Schooble here, Joe, because it's
loose bodies, which essentially is bone chips that kind of
(11:25):
move around to the elbow. He felt it throughout the offseason,
off and on a little bit. Obviously, nothing terrible, because
he did make one start in the WBC.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
He was off to a typical Terrek schoobl start, great start.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
To the season, but then it looked like those chips
just got in a place where it was I don't
know whether it was pressing upon a nerve, but certainly
it was causing discomfort for Terrek Schooble and he was
shaking his arm out.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
They went out and talked to him.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
He finished the inning through the ball great, but then
the next day playing catch. A couple of days later
playing catch, he realized that this is a little more serious.
So they're going in there arthroscopic surgery. You take these
loose bodies out. Essentially, it's going to be at least
two two months, and just add another month to that
because then he has to ramp up with a second
spring training to get himself in position to go out
(12:11):
there and throw eighty five pitches in a major league start.
So you're talking about best case scenario, probably three months
that he's out. Then I think, you know he's going
to join this team late in the second half of
the season, as will Troy Melton and Jackson job who
both also have elite velocity, so they have the potential
if things go right. And it's always risky counting on
pitchers coming back from arm injuries, you know to be
(12:32):
perfectly right when they come back out of the gate.
But on paper anyway, I think they're okay late in
the season. The problem is treading water between now and then.
And last thing for me, Joe on school Ble, I
don't think people are going to call me crazy because
this is actually his third elbow procedure. He had tummy
John surgery, he had a cleanup, and now he's got
another cleanup here.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
His market value is still going to be sky high.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I still think he's going to set a record for
the most money given to a starting pitcher. I'm just
assuming he does come back throws the ball. Well, this
is not a major surgery. It does take time to heal,
but it's not like a reconstructive Tommy John surgery. So
as far as his value, people are saying it's going
to cost him two hundred million dollars.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I'm not buying that.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
You know, if there's some complication as well, yeah, that's
a different story. But we've been down this road a
lot with bone chips, and you might have had pictures yourself, Joe,
who've been out with this.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So I think there he's okay.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
But I think for Detroit in the meantime, they've got
a whole ground in the central and I don't think
anybody's running away in that division, so I think they're
gonna wind up being okay.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, the bone chip thing, that's that's pretty popular for
years and even back in the day that was normally
cleaned up relatively easily, and I think everybody knows within
the industry that it's something that's not it should not
really subtract a whole lot of dough, especially if he
comes back and he throws something similar to her, probably
(13:57):
what he had been doing before. I would even bet
on that, But as you suggest it, just just as
long as there's nothing more than that, that would be
the that would be the situation of the moment, that
that he can't obviously impact the future for him. But
the thing is, I mean, that's a lot of guys.
Are all these injuries among the pictures, are there anything?
Is there any similarities among them? Or is it just
is any of these Tommy Johns? Are they like all
(14:19):
like they're all arm related? Is it some body related?
Do you have any idea on those?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, a little combination of both verlanders and neck. I mean,
he is, what forty two years old? We all feel
as we right older Jackson Joe was Tommy John surgery typical,
you know, twenty one year old out there throwing one
hundred miles an hour in the body just cried the elbow?
Did Troy Melton had a little bit of shoulder inflammation,
no big procedure, but they've had gone slow with him.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
He's young.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I think Casey Maiz might have been a hamstring. So
it's a little bit of this and a little.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Bit of that.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, they're just curious, I mean, because you always question,
you know, programs or methods when something like that happens.
You're right though, I mean, the the chasing of velocity
at a very young age, it's it's almost like it's okay,
it's it's an accept that it's almost a part of
development anymore that a young pitcher comes out starting pitcher,
throws hard, eventually gets surge only because that's the way
(15:12):
this thing works now. But the hammy and things like that,
those are just freaky kind of stuff.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Neck.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
You know, I wake up with the bad neck every day,
so I get that. So yeah, just just curiously on
that point. But they need to get these guys back,
and well, that's a good group. That's a good group
that you just mentioned there, And I would almost bet
they're like you're also suggest that they're they're the division itself.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Nobody's running away. No, I don't think anybody's going to
run away.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
And if they could just hold serve as these guys
get well, you almost get you get to like, you know,
the trade deadline situation, and all of a sudden you
get acquisitions from within the organization. And that was always
kind of cool to always really pay attention to that.
A lot of times the teams that was with, especially
Tampa Bay, we would not necessarily go out and get guys,
but guys would get well, or you'd bring up somebody
(15:58):
pretty cool from the minor league system, which was also
an acquisition in a sense. So I'm betting that they're
going to be able to hold surf for a bit.
That would be my guess. Nobody's gonna run away with
this thing. I don't believe. So yeah, I think they'll
They're going to give these guys time they get well,
but by the time they do get well, they're gonna
be kind of fresh by the end of the year.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Joe, I always love talking and analyzing show Hey Otani,
and especially with you, a guy who's managed him before.
We need to re examine how we look at show Heyotani.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
It's a very different player this year. We're going to dive.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
Into that right after this on the Book of Joe Hey.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe show Hey Otani. Joe,
I think we have to relook how we think of
show Hey because listen, he's thrilled us those last few years,
especially at the plate, fifty to fifty, the six for
six game with ten RBIs, the three homer playoff game
with a moon shot over the pavilion field.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
It's just incredible what he's done at the bat.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
But I think we now have to think about show
Hay being literally one of, if not the best pitchers
image League Baseball. Now, I know the offense has been
quite what he typically is for show Hay, and Dave
Roberts now has been giving him some days off hitting
on the times that he's on the mound. But I
know that, you know, the two way unicorn thing is
(17:30):
still there. But I think if we just examined show
Hay as a pitcher man, he is to me Joe,
he is better than ever and he's doing that when
his velocity is down about a half a tick from
last year and his strikeout rate is down, but he's
become a ground ball pitcher who is depressing slug like
(17:51):
nobody else in baseball. And the thing that jumps out
to me Joe is he is throwing more pitches on
the edges of the plate now than he ever has.
I think we're looking at that like the best version
of show Hay on the mound that we've ever seen.
And it's kind of typical for me, Joe, my experience
watching these guys coming back from elbow surgeries where year one,
(18:12):
which was last year for him, the velocity comes back
almost immediately and sometime to the highest higher level, and
then it takes a while for the command to come back.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
And we're seeing that right now.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Showhy is commanding the baseball, especially on the edges of
the plate, like he never has before. So he is
off to a historic start. You're talking about six starts
here now with an era under one, with forty two strikeouts.
It's only the fourteenth pitcher in baseball history, at least
in the light ball era since nineteen twenty, to start
(18:45):
like this out of the gate. So, yeah, he's still
a great hitter, don't get me wrong. You know, maybe
for seventeen Yeah, sure, everybody goes through a slump. But
I think when we break down the best pitchers in
Major League Baseball, you must have sho Hey Otani on
the short list.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Tell me what you see.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Absolutely yes, I felt that all along and you just
nailed it. Though, to the control and command. That was
the thing that when I first saw him in twenty twenty.
He was coming back off with surgery. We're in COVID camp,
you know, the elongated spring training that we had before
the truncated season, and he was not He has no
(19:23):
command and nothing was coming out of his hand.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Nothing.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
It was really strange to watch. I was seeing him
for the first time. I heard all the you know,
the wonderful things about him, but it just wasn't showing up.
But I think there was some trepidation involve we didn't
want to really cut it loose, and command was just
not good. These lawn darts like some fifty five footers,
even his fastball fifty five footers and whatever. So that's
when I first saw him, and then Malvi. The first
(19:46):
thought I had as his control and command comes back.
Once he controls the commands his fastball, game over, that's
it game over. Because when he knows where his fastball
is going, this other stuff is sick. The other stuff,
the splitter, the sladder to sweep, whatever you want.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
To call it.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
And he and he's got this ability to shape pitches
almost on the fly, like if he just has a
thought the night before he sees somebody throws a ball
that he likes, he'll go up and researching and eventually
be able to do it because he's got such great feels.
So yes, if you're seeing the control and command on
the edges, everything else becomes better because he knows exactly.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Where the ball is going. The hitters really have no defense.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
They're playing offense, but they're actually playing defense against them.
And he's that good. He's that good last point here.
It sounds to me again I'm not talking to him
in a long time, that he's maybe down shifted a
little bit, knowing coming off the surgeries that maybe it's
not just about max velocity all the time. Maybe I
can do this in another way that's going to provide
(20:43):
longevity for me down the road. I could absolutely him
researching it, talking about it, thinking about it, memory, trusts
about it. He would have that kind of a method,
and that he wants to pitch. He doesn't like this
stuff about he has to pick one or the other.
He doesn't like the people think he has to choose.
He knows he can do both. So how do I
do both and remain healthy? I would almost I bet
(21:05):
that's an inner dialogue with him. And this is the
conclusion that you're seeing right now, because even if it's
I'm a half a mile an hour less whatever it
might be, velocity even a mile, but the command, the
control of the pitch really keeps it pretty much at
the same level, possibly even more so. I think it's intentional.
I think everything he does is intentional. It's well thought out,
(21:26):
and it makes sense to me.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I think you're dead right, Joe.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
I mean, listen, he has hit one hundred and one
miles an hour, so it's there when he wants it.
I think his cruising speed, as you mentioned, is just
a little half tick lower. He's actually dead into his
splitter and curveball a little bit more, getting more drop
on that, a couple of miles an hour off both
of those pitches. And you're right as far as playing
defense in the batter's box when he commands, and especially
(21:51):
right now with his fastball, he's commanding. It's a glove
side like it's a video game. And then he has
the highest chase rate of his career because people, he
just forces so many swing decisions when he's on the plate.
There's very few pitches that are just off, you know,
out of a ball out of the hand where a
hitter can dismiss. The other night against Houston, seventy percent strikes,
(22:13):
no walks, eight strikeouts. He got beat on two solo
homers and actually one was a fastball was misplaced to
Christian Walker. But man, I'm totally down with what Dave
Roberts is doing here and that you know, I think
show hey, as you mentioned, his identity is a two
way player. That's not going to change. He's going to
do this for as long as he can breathe as
(22:34):
a baseball player. But there are times, and especially when
he's not swinging it great, where it's such a smart
thing to do to just let him go out there
and have a game where he can just focus on pitching.
And when you're not you know this, Joe, when you're
not swinging the bat, well, you know you want to
get in the cage and grind and work.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Your way out of it.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
You can't do that when you're starting every sixth day.
I mean, there's so much recovery, preparation, you name it
as far as being a starting pitcher in the big
leagues that I think the bandwidth both physically and mentally
it just isn't there to correct something offensively and still
prepare as a starting pitcher. So I like this idea.
(23:12):
I'm not saying they're doing it all the time. There's
no specific plan for this, but there are going to
be times when the Dodgers just tell show, hey, you
know what, just go out and pitch this week, and
you know it's gonna cost him probably sixty to seventy
played appearances. That's four or five home runs. But you
go back to I think it was twenty one with
(23:34):
the Angels when his highest full capacity pitching and hitting
was one hundred and sixty six innings on the mound,
six hundred and sixty six played appearances. Now last year
it was almost at seven hundred and fifty played appearances.
So I think the template is around one hundred and
sixty pitches on the mound, about six hundred and fifty
played appearances. So if you reduce his plate appearances by
(23:56):
about seventy, it's not a whole lot. But again, with
sho Hay's production, you're gonna miss out in some damage.
I think you got a better player, certainly a better pitcher,
and I think right now you protect the idea that
show Hey is not just a two way player, but
he's one of the best pitchers in Major League Baseball.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Yeah, I'm just I would I would like to know
or if part of that decision to not hit also
is because Shoe mentioned something about, you know, his legs
didn't feel as strong that he because that was the
big thing when we first came up with his rules
that he created himself, was that he would let me
know when the legs were not feeling strong, and that
(24:35):
would would be the day that he would not feel
good about either just playing because he's been pitching a lot,
or just being able to do both on the same day.
It was always about his legs. He didn't mention anything else.
That's number one. Number two. They lost that game two
to one, right, he gave up to two homers. Yes,
and he was not in the lineup. See there's that.
That was the other thing he he really believes rightfully,
(24:58):
so that when he's in the lineup, when he's pitching,
they have a better chance to win because of what
he could do with the plate. Also, so that would
be something I'd be curious, is like, how did that
stick with him afterwards? They lose a game two to
one that he only pitched and did not have a
chance to contribute offensively. My bet would be unless he really,
you know, he was a guy that maybe motivated not
(25:18):
doing both at the same time, he might be a
little bit perturbed about that because he's about winning. He's
about winning, and the fact that you know, he wasn't
able to contribute offensively in a two to one game,
he definitely probably thought afterwards, you know what I could
have rustled up a point for a somehow. I know
I may have been over seventeen whatever it had been,
but I still believe in myself offensively, So that would
(25:39):
be just curiously if that would be part of the
conversation afterwards from him to anybody coaching staff or managerial
wise too. So that's that. I mean, it's a legs
issue for me. That's what I we talked about. When
they're a little bit tired. Give him a break, and
then he wants to hit when he pitches because he
feels the team has a better chance of winning.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
I mean, I hope people don't get used to what
he does.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I mean, he was pitcher of the month in April, right,
and you know he also hit six home runs, got
on base, you know whatever. It was forty percent of
the time, even in a quote unquote down month.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Offensively.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
I mean, the leadoff hitter for the Dodgers is the
pitcher of the month in the National League.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
It's just crazy.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
It doesn't happen, right, I mean, it never happened, and
that's list and that's what he signed up to do.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
We know that.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
I'll defend that all the time because when I first
got there, there was so many caveats regarding how to
use him that he cannot hit the day before he pitched,
he cannot hit the day that he did pitch, and
he cannot hit the day after he pitched. And I
was like, wow, that's like three days of no bat,
which could really be very destructive to the other side,
which we've seen. So he signed up to do this,
(26:46):
he wants to do this. I just be curious as to,
other than being zero for seventeen, why they did it.
I don't like to know if it was show hate
coming to them or them coming to show hate, because
for him to go to them, man, he'd have to
be hurting.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
A little bit. Something was off.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
It almost sounds like they're precipitated something like this, But
I don't know that.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
We'll never know that unless you ask the question.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, no, I think you're right. That's my take on it, Joe,
that Dave Roberts it wasn't planned. But the day before
on Monday Night Show, hey actually grounded out to third
base twice. That's only the third time in his career,
the first time in four years. And you know this
as a manager. It wasn't just that he grounded out
the third base twice because you know, the third baseman
(27:30):
essentially plays the shortstop position against show Hey, you know,
with a shifting But I think it was reading the
player's body language. And it was really after that game
that Doc said, you know what, let's and he did
this before it's a third time in four starts. I
think he just saw that, whether it was physically or
just at the plate, just didn't look right. And I
(27:53):
think if you're Dave Roberts and the Dodgers, I think
this is your first time with full on two way
show Hey for six months in the regular season and
hoping to have that in the postseason. You've got to
get your spots to just back off a little bit right,
And this was a good spot when he's not swinging
it well. So give Doc credit. Yeah, I agree with
(28:13):
you with Showy. I don't think he's you know, better
than me. I don't think there's a time where he says,
you know what, I'm better off sitting down right.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
The other thing about the ground balls at third base,
I think part of his over seventeen was asked. I
was asking some questions, is that a lot of it's
been rollover pole kind of stuff for pulling off stuff
right swing and miss, and that It's almost like I
wouldn't I'd be interested to know if show Hay intentionally
was just trying hit the ball hard on the ground
the other way, just to get himself back on the ball,
(28:42):
because when I had him with the Angels, my first
year with him, when he was hurting a little bit,
struggling a little bit, I would say, see those rocks
in left center. The rocks are your friends, those are
your buddies. You try to hit those rocks with the
line drive every time you go up there, just to
try to get him back inside the ball. Because you
watch him, man, when he stays inside the ball and weighs,
you know, the hands trailed and then all of a
(29:02):
sudden the bat flips and the ball goes high to
the left central. I mean that's when he's on So
I you know, again, this is just reading the tea
leaves a little bit. It looks like he was either
the interpretation maybe that his bat looks slow, but was
he really just trying to hit the ball the other way?
Because this guy thinks all the time and he's always intentional.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Hey, Joe, you know the look a team has when
it's going well right like, no matter what the score is,
and you've had teams like this, you feel like you're
gonna find a way to win the game.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
The Cubs have that look right now. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
They've won three straight walkoff games against Cincinnati's the first
time since nineteen forty three the Cubs beat the same
opponent three straight games and a walk off. They can't
be beaten at Wrigley Field. They're eighteen and three in
their last twenty one games. I like watching this team play, Joe.
(29:58):
I mean with the production they get up and down
the lineup, and they did it again with pie Crow
Armstrong tying the game with a to run homer in
the ninth inning. They're as good as anybody but the
Dodgers in terms of seven, eight, nine productions.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
So the lineup's turning over.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
They put the ball in play a lah the twenty
twenty five Toronto Blue Jays, and we know they're a
terrific and every really terrific defensive team. But what I see, too, Joe,
is they've got that in factor right now. The Cubs
are playing with tremendous confidence. Give me your take and
what you see at this team, agreed.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
I mean I was just actually thinking that this morning.
I was looking at the recaps video wise, and yeah,
I mean the way they're coming back, how they're coming back,
the energy, and I do like their guys.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
I think their guys are legit.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
They're charismatic, not unlike the twenty sixteen group that we
did pretty good with. That's what I'm seeing. And like
you said, it goes up and down the lineup. They're
missing you know, hort and a key pitcher, so and
they're still and it Steel's coming back too, correct.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah, they just lost Matthew Boyd to a knee injury
while he's playing with his kids.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
But yeah, Steel should be coming back, you know, June July.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Yeah, I said, all that stuff is good, but I
liked how they're playing. I like their energy a lot.
Bregman obviously great addition, but don't underestimate resigning Nico Horner
and what that does for them. I I believe he's
the glue guy there. Bregman is a He's historically been that.
But I think more specifically that team without Nico right
(31:23):
now would be good, but not doing these kind of
things right now that they are he's his bat has
really come up. I mean I've seen several pull home runs.
Not that you're looking for power from him, but he's
being able to do that. His defense is extraordinaries. Just
his attitude. He competes this guys, they have competers. That's
I love their infield. I mean I mentioned that during
(31:46):
the Cup Convention while I was there, Bregman there, hornets
and then at second and of course Swanson and Bush.
That's that's legit that that that plays every day. Because
these are real guys. These are real baseball guys. It's
not just they're just not analytical Maven's. They're baseball guys.
And I love that. And then an Armstrong had to
have a long conversation with him, uh while we're waiting
(32:07):
to go on stage with the Cup Convention. Really liked
it a lot. I never you know, I would have
no idea what to expect, but very ingratiating young man.
And he's a baseball historian. He loves the game and
he knew things about even back in the day with
the Angels when I was there and talking about the
first time through and he was probably just out of
(32:28):
diapers by that time, but he just really, he's a
solid human being.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
Man. I liked him a lot. And then there there's
there outfield.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
I mean he's just I'm watching some balls just jump
off the bat there, I mean, killing some stuff. So yeah,
there they got a lot of good things going on
right now.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
And their catcher was at Kelly right he's like I
mean when he's with the Diamondbacks, nice nice player, but
all of a sudden he's found baseball hitting Jesus.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
I mean he's crushing the ball on different occasions. So
they they got, they got that. They I agree the
it factor. I like to use the word charismatic. I
think they are. I think they're going to feed off
the city of Chicago. If you could dominate at Wrigley,
Mike God, what if vibe that would create? And yes,
I agree on all counts, they look that good right now.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
On the other end of the spectrum, the Houston Astros look.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
To be in trouble now.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
In the past years, when you said that this time
of year, you know you would get burned because the
Astros know how to run the marathon. A veteran team,
been there, done that. But I gotta tell you, Joe,
it's tough the injury now to Carlos Correa, who was
taking batting practice and tore an a tendon in his ankle.
He's gone for the year with ankle surgery. It's a
(33:44):
different ankle than the one that caused all the commotion
with medical personnel when he was a free agent with
the Giants and the Mets. They're fifteen to twenty three.
Hunter Brown has just started playing long toss. He's not
coming back soon. They are getting Jeremy Pania back soon,
so that'll help the infield situation. But Josh Hater still out.
(34:05):
He's on a rehab program. Yainr Diaz, Jake Myers, Tatsuya Amaya,
the picture they signed out of Japan is having all
kinds of trouble adjusting to major league life and pitching.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Christian Hobber is out. I mean, the injuries.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
For this team and probably the worst I've seen of
any team this year. Again careful counting out the Houston Astros,
but this looks like a team that's in trouble.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
What do you think of the Astros?
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah, I'm in you're obviously that's that's a great presentation,
But like you also said, they have this way. These
guys will be if they're all able to come back
at some point. Those are the in season acquisitions that
you're looking for, and all of a sudden, the entire
method could turn around completely, which they've done in the past.
(34:54):
The biggest thing right now was to stay as close
as you possibly can to not dig such a large
hole that it's impossible to fight on back into that
divisional race. So yeah, I right on with everything. However,
their history always tells you that they're able to pull
the rabbit out of the hat somehow, and and if
they were really well and everybody's healthy and they were
(35:16):
struggling like this, that'd be a different story completely. But
the fact that they're missing some really key elements and
that as long as these like if Hater's on rehab
right now, that makes the bullpen better, not just because
of him, but it backs everybody up but earlier into
the game that matters. So yeah, I wouldn't count them
out yet because of that, the fact that they have
people coming back, But it's not gonna be easy.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Man.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
When you it's it's like a basketball game. You dig
that first half hole, you fight really hard to get
back into the game in the fourth quarter only to
lose by you know, five or six points at the
end because you just run out of gas. I mean,
there are no field stations along the way in Major
League Baseball. Once you run out of gas, you're out
of gas. You just you just you're not permitted to
stop and refuel again. So that would there's a chance.
(35:59):
But everything's gonna have to click right for them.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
We're gonna take a quick break here in the Book
of Joe.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
I want to ask, Joe, does the name John Landy
mean anything to you?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Does that ring a bell at all?
Speaker 1 (36:10):
John Landy la and d y la and d y Yes, No,
I don't remember that name. Okay, well, we're going to
fill you in, and it shouldn't by the way, because
I want to point out how second place it's right
behind first place, right, but there are miles and miles
between first and second. I'll explain that right after this
(36:45):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. I mentioned John Landy.
You know the name Roger Banister, right, Yes, I do.
Roger Banister, the runner, first guy to break four a
minute mile. Yeah, Well, John Landy got their second forty
six days later he broke Roger Banister's record. You're a
little too late when you're second, right, So he's forgotten
(37:08):
in history. First man on the moon, Neil Armstrong. Everybody
knows that. Do you know who was second?
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Jack Handy buzz Aldrin was second.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
I bring this up because I don't know if you
saw this a couple of weeks ago, the London Marathon.
This is the first time in human history somebody broke
two hours, ran the marathon in less than two hours.
Sebastian Sawway of Kenya. I mean that is a big deal.
That's the equivalent of Roger Bannister breaking the four minute
mile years and years ago.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
But in that same race.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
I'm bringing this up because in that same race, a
guy from Ethiopia, Yomi Kajelka, he finished also under two hours.
He finished in the second place. I mean he is
forgotten in history. The same day that he got under
two hours. So timing is literally everything, especially marathons. But
(38:06):
it happened to run the greatest race ever run except
for the same day when Sebastian Saway beat him.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
But about nine seconds, how about that.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
I'm looking out my window right now, I'm looking towards
Wilke Spara, from where I'm sitting right now, which is
about twenty six miles away, and I can't even imagine
running there.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
It's less than two hours. That's that's just an incredible thought.
Are these are these marathon tracks? Is there any hills involved?
Was a pretty flat all the time?
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Well, London is known as more of a flatter course.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
They had perfect weather, but yes, I think that the
conditions were ideal for running a marathon that day. To
take nothing away from it, it is a fully sanctioned marathon, right,
but yeah, just to give you some perspective, back in
nineteen o six, the world record for the marathon was
two hours and forty two minutes.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
But there was no Kenyons running back then, right, there
was no Was there any Kenyons running back there?
Speaker 4 (39:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (39:03):
All about that.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
But there's an issue with the shoes running shoes these days.
I don't know if you've heard about this.
Speaker 4 (39:12):
I have not.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
They have carbon plates in running shoes now and other materials.
They're so light shoes nowadays they weigh three point four ounces.
Like Adidas, who sponsors Saway, says when they give a
new box of shoes to their runners, the runners think
it's a prank. They think there's nothing inside of it.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
It's so light it feels like it's empty.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
But there is almost like a trampoline effect with the
carbon plate in the running shoes. Now, so between the
lightness of the shoe and the bounce back ability that's
in these carbon plates, they're lighter in spring area the shoes.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
So maybe a purist scoffs at it.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
I still think it's amazing that you could run twenty
six miles in less than two hours.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
Absolutely, And how about then Seinfeld when they set the
alarms and the electricity got the breaker went out because
Kramer was in his own little hot tub and is
on his side of the apartment building.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
That I think about that marathon runner.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Everything comes back to Seinfeld all the time, anyway.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
It really does.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
But I mean, right a technology, I mean, that's what
over forty six minutes off the record from back in
the day. I mean, they say, you know, golf balls
are flying close to four unite yards right now, and
you know, I guess, you know, baseball there is you know,
I don't even know if the balls are hit. You know,
there's all this discrepancy about you know, pitches thrown in
the velocity that we talk about all the time. And
(40:38):
then there's controversy about where the ball is being measured
from out of the hand and as opposed to at
home plate, because back in the day we had guns
that would take it out of the hand and roll
back to the velocity at the place. So there's different
ways of measuring, I guess. But and then like we're
talking to where the runners come from. I mean, Kenyon's
these kids have been running their whole life, probably not
(40:58):
that we didn't more back in the day, but it's tech.
It's its evolution in a sense, I guess, it's just
different groupings.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
Who's who's involved in a race now that wasn't involved
back then.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
It's fascinating because to me that that's like the bike
race and the French what.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
Do you call the France thank you? I watched that
and I'm baffled. I mean, how they do that?
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Me and Preston Gomez because I used to ride a
bike a lot and Preston we would sit there during
the Tour de France and just would be in awe
of like these riding the bike that oft in those
distances that many days in you know, in a row
or how many days they took to complete at the hills,
the mountains, whatever, up and down.
Speaker 4 (41:39):
Wow, that was like that.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
We thought that might have been the most difficult accomplishment
in all of sport. Then hear about a guy running
the marathonal less than two hours. It's I guess when
you really challenge the human spirit somehow, Uh, that's the
that's the number, that's the goal. You got to beat
it somehow, And I think over the course of time,
of course it's going to be beaten, just through technology
and just sure sure will. So it's interesting, it's very interesting,
(42:04):
And congrats to the number one end number two. When
you said about the number two, I can think about it.
Is anybody realize that the Phillies beat the Rays in
the two thousand and eight World Series.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
There you go, you can relate to it, or a
society that loves the st ees t at the end,
you know, the biggest, the fastest, the strongest. There you go,
even on the other end of the spectrum like the
worst of things. But if you're just a shade behind
the best, you tend to be forgotten.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Yeah I haven't forgotten.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
Your race, thank you.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
But especially the way that World Series ended was.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
It was kind of the weather was kind of awkward
at that It was kind of awkward.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, well, speaking of ending, what do you have for
us today to end this episode of the Book of Joe.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
You know, I was I'm going back to a little
bit of tried and true and just watching everything that's
going on right now, and we recapped it pretty much,
the whether it was the fight and why that happened,
you know, the division race itself, Houston having to come back,
and how do you do these things? What's what's the secret,
what's the I always talk about balance, but also talk
(43:07):
about simplicity too, And you know, the version that I
came up with was to do simple better. But I
love Leonardo da Vincia, and I might have used this
in way in the past, but simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
And then there's another one towards the bottom. I don't
know who the who said it, but one must learn
to be simple. Anyone can manage to be complex, It's true,
(43:30):
you know, to really culd things down and simplify, reduce, reduce,
reduce as a teacher, as a coach, as a mentor whatever.
Be able to do that and make your presentation in
fewer words really could make all the difference in the world,
because we always have this tendency to want to believe
the answers there are something complex or convoluted.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
So I just stuck. Struck with me.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
This stuck with me this morning as I was reading,
I did my morning stuff starting at five am, and
the word simplicity really came to mind. Part of it
was the fact we just got back from Florida, and
I mean I got stuff everywhere in the RV, in storage,
all laying all over the house, stuff in storage down
in Florida, and I'm thinking, you know, you get like
(44:13):
on this treadmill hamster wheel that you want to get
everything done right now, and it ain't gonna get done
right now, Okakes. I also want to play golf today, so
really try to simplify. It is the ultimate sophistication, as
mister da Vinci had said, and I absolutely believe that
to be true.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Man, We're on the same wavelength because I saw a
quote from Paul's Schemes today along those same lines. Scheme
pitched an incredible game as usual. Don't want to take
him for granted either against Arizona. I think it was
eight shutout innings.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
It was.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
But when in describing his outing, he said, it's not easy,
but it's simple.
Speaker 4 (44:53):
Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Now, it sounds contradictory, right, but what he meant was
the idea of getting ahead of hitters.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
It's it's simple, but it's not easy.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
But if you can and do that, that's the key
for his pitching, right And I love the way that
he put that, saying that it's not easy to do,
but the concept is simple. It's a basic concept of pitching.
It's always been true, no matter how hard guys throw,
the matter how much they spin the ball, Baseball is
a game, you know, this Joe of controlling count leverage.
(45:26):
So much of the game pivots around count leverage. Paul
Skins a great stuard of the game. I just love
the way he put that, It's not easy to do,
but it's simple.
Speaker 4 (45:35):
Analog baseball. That's what he's describing right there, right, that's
an analog moment. I love that.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
That is pure genius. You know, that's one of those
things that you wish you had said. That's right on
the money. And regarding that game, you know, I was
reading along the way and watching like little different pop
ups that he was pitching so well, he went eight
and like right around one hundred pitches. See for me,
I don't know that would be. And I don't know
(46:01):
how he felt. I don't know what he said, I
don't know, I don't know anything. But that's a perfect
opportunity for nine innings for him right there. I thought
it was like right around a HUNDI I mean it's
I'm looking. I was looking through all the different box
scores again today and we really have I don't know,
it's evolved or evolved whatever you want to call it,
into one hundred pitch exercise. That's pretty much pretty much
what starting pitching has gotten too.
Speaker 4 (46:23):
It was on the way for a while.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Everybody gets kind of freaky when a guy throws a
hundred pitches and it's almost like, oh, he can't go
one to five, he can't go one away, he can't
go one ten. I remember which James Shield Shields always
wanted to pitch complete games. My problem with that was
when he got done, it's weirdly like I thought one
hundred and eight pitches, stuff would start happening badly for him.
Speaker 4 (46:42):
So that was my moment.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
But then I wanted him to fight through that, and
he did, and he started pitching complete games, became an animal.
So that's this guy's already pitching animal. I get that.
But that was a perfect opportunity. I thought to just
let him go nine. Unless there was something he was
fatigued and they saw it whatever, then you'd absolutely take
him up something he might have said on the bench.
But I thought it was a purer opportunity to really
(47:05):
complete a great day of analog baseball.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yeah, I'm with you, Joe, because you know, and I
know it's May now and it's Paul Skiings, but he's
made sixty three major league starts. He does not have
a nine inning complete game. His pitch count was manageable.
He did strike out the side of the previous inning,
so I think he threw seventeen pitches that inning, and
(47:29):
Don Kelly after the game mentioned that his velocity was
down in that last inning. Listen, in this case, I'm
on board with you. I think not that Paul Skins
needs a boost to his ego, but that was a
situation where give him the chance to go out there
and throw that ninth inning, and I think you've got
even more of a beast if he does that. I again,
(47:51):
if somebody gets off base in that ninth inning, fine
you get him out.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
They brought in Greg Riisoa to finish the game. But yeah,
in this case, I do think there's value. Now if
they thought he was fatigued, yeah, sure.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
I mean, they have more info and on that than
I do.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
But yeah, it was something I thought about to consider it.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
I know you're a big believer in that, in that
once you break through that ceiling essentially to run that
marathon in less than two hours, you got yourself a
beast of a pitcher.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
Yeah, and it was the tougher part is the one
nothing game.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
I mean, you just talked about if somebody gets on
and that's you have to weigh all these considerations at
that particular juncture. So for me, that would be it
would have been developmental if he was well enough to
do it. Developmentally speaking, pitching the nine innings, it's a
mind one stretched has a difficult time going back to
its original form.
Speaker 4 (48:42):
I've stretched. I like nine innings.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
I want nine innings every time I go out there
because I know I can do it and I know
what it feels like walking off. So but at one
nothing game, just one runner on and then all of
a sudden you put the relief pitcher into a more
difficult situation. You want to get a clean inning. There's
you could you could debate this to the cows come
home regarding what's the right or the wrong thing to
do and that moment. I'm just talking from developmentally, a
(49:07):
real stud picture, you know, it could be the best
picture of this generation talked about show. Hey, obviously he
is right up in a conversation school, but whatever.
Speaker 4 (49:16):
But I like the idea of him going out there.
I know they're kind of in contention right now. They
are in contention. I mean they're playing well, they're about
three games over five hundred something like that.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
But anyway, I just think the mind one stretch is
really a great concept that I always love to try
to push my starters to be.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Able to do that great job. We'll see you next
time with the Book of Joe.
Speaker 4 (49:37):
All right, Tommy, you be well, buddy. Thanks.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeart Radio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Popular Podcasts
Hey Jonas!
Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.