The Book of Joe: Venezuela's historic WBC victory!

Hosts Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci discuss Venezuela's win over USA in the World Baseball Classic.  Joe points out the passion from Venezuela and the huge role baseball plays in their country and culture.  Tom asks about USA's hitting and what happened through the tournament. We offer kudos for the showing from Team Italy!  Plus, could there be MORE changes coming to baseball?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey there and welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast.
It is me Tom Verducci and of course Joe Madden
on the other side.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Joe.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
It's probably going to be an all WBC edition year
after a thrilling final and actually entire tournament at the WBC,
I don't think it could have worked out much better.
It could have worked that much better for the United
States team. We'll get into that in a minute. But yes,
Venezuela are the champions of the WBC. Actually the first

(00:45):
time with the six iterations of the WBC that Venezuela
comes out on top. As you know, Joe, a baseball
crazy country, it was.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
It was quite the site.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
First of all, give me give me your reactions on
you know, obviously it's a bit of an ups here,
but you know you've had players from Venezuela, many players
over the years that you know about historically great players
come from that country.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Your reaction to Venezuela being the WBC champs.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, I mean it's it's not a surprise in a
sense because, like you're suggesting, they've had a great history
of baseball baseball players all Latin America has I mean,
any any of the Latin America teams to win that thing.

Speaker 4 (01:28):
It's just it's never going to surprise.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
I mean, of course, the United States being uh maybe
a larger potential supply of talent just based on population alone. However,
these these folks down there, when they start out as kids, man,
it's it's it's it's all they want to do. It's
all their parents want them to do. It's a way,
particularly from the Dominican like the Islands, maybe some Puerto

(01:52):
Rico and of course in under in Venezuela. But it's
a way too, you know, financial uh largesse. It's you're
going to make a name for yourself. You're going to
make some doughn you to do it while you're doing
something you love to do, and that is to play baseball.
So none of this, I hope nobody is really shocked
by that. I mean, the fact that the United States
has all these you know, wonderful big names, and maybe

(02:15):
the names aren't as large man for man with Venezuela,
but there's still really good baseball players. And furthermore, the
tournament's just a small snapshot. I mean, it's the beginning
of the year. You could see offensively, some guys really
weren't in the groove yet. So you're gonna have all
that to consider. And that's really the time for David
the slagliathe would be at this moment of the year
when people really haven't had a chance to get everything together. So, yeah,

(02:38):
it's a great history that they have. You could start
recontisting of Louis Aparicio first, right, or maybe Ozzie Gee
and second short stops. But it's not a surprise. They
played well. They pitched well.

Speaker 4 (02:51):
At the end.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
They of the kid from the Cubbies through the ball
really really well. So it's up for anybody to grab
right there, because these are really good baseball players.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, you know, I know there's and we'll get into this,
there's always going to be criticism of the USA team
when they do not win, and some of that criticism is, well,
they don't want it as badly enough because obviously when
you watch these games, they just you know, there's cultural
differences just in the way they play baseball and the
way they respond to playing baseball.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
They are not going to be.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
As emotional as extroverted some of the Latin American countries.
It's just a difference of style. It doesn't mean I
don't think it means they care less Joe. But I
will say there's a difference to where their motivation is
coming from last night, after the game, being on the field,
I can tell you. And I don't know what's second here,

(03:42):
but I have never seen so many people I'm talking
about players and staff and coaches crying on a baseball
field after a win. I mean not just tears, I
mean flat out sobbing. They've got to use the sleeve
of their shirt to dry the tears. I cannot fathom

(04:03):
any victory for the United States team that would generate
the same reaction. And that's what I'm getting at here, folks.
It's just different. It's such a part of the culture.
It's the first time Venezuela has won the WBC. You
can throw in the fact everything that's been going on
in the country in the last seven or eight years,
the political upheaval, the economy. You know, it's tough for

(04:27):
a lot of these guys now for their families to
even get visas to come to the United States. Geopolitically, yeah,
there's a lot there in the background. These are very
resilient people playing in very uncertain times, and you know
that is a factor in this. But the bottom line is,
I just can't fathom the USA being coming from a

(04:48):
motivation of hearts, right, not just competitively, but from the
heart that would elicit such an emotional reaction. It's one
thing if you're a Team USA and you rise to
the expectations that are put upon you, which are enormous, right.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
I mean, we talked about the USA. It's either win
or bust all the time.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
For the most of the time anyway, with these sports,
especially at WBC and Venezuela, is not just meeting expectations.
Of course, they want to win as well. You know
they're they're playing for thirty million people back home. So again,
I can't fathom a situation where Team USA would be
crying on a baseball field the way I thought.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
I saw the authentic tiers of the Venezuelan team last
night after that win.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
No question.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
I mean, first of all, you look before the game,
I mean, you got you guys had a shot in
the dugout where the.

Speaker 4 (05:35):
Venezuelan guys were dancing.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
A rise was just in the middle of the whole
group there and they had like a little wash pit
going on, and they're all clapping and they're they're dancing
away and they're getting ready for the game, and they're there.
That's their method of getting themselves psyched up and loose.

Speaker 4 (05:49):
And it's fun.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
Man.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
I've been around these fellas that it's really a lot
of fun. And it's a lot of what we did
with the Cubs and the Rays, et cetera. Whereas on
the other side, it's more like bringing your you know,
your briefcase and button down and make sure you you know,
your hair has come properly. That kind of It's just different.
It's different culture, that's really what it comes down to.
So to evaluate one or the other I think is wrong.

(06:12):
It's just the way it is culturally. And you're suggesting
they're the people of Venezuela, and these players had a
lot going on right now beyond just a baseball game,
and it impacts them and impacts their families and impacts
their moms and grandmoms. I mean, these guys go deep
with their family roots the Latin America world, and I
really appreciate that about them. And I've always felt the

(06:34):
strong affinity to this group because you know it's a
raised Catholic as you were in Pennsylvania and Italian Polish.
I mean, I've always used to talk to the guys
about this, my Puerto Rican brothers back in the day.
How when I meet their families, it was so familiar
to me. So there's there's a lot, there's a lot
going on there. And just to take it to another step,
I think as a kid growing up in Venezuela or

(06:56):
Dominican or whatever, there's not as much diverse, many diverse interests.

Speaker 4 (07:01):
I mean, when you're a young and.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
Growing up in those in those countries, you want to
play baseball. You want to play Major League baseball, not
just baseball, professional baseball.

Speaker 4 (07:10):
Your goal is to get to that very the very top.
So it's different.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
I mean a lot of kids in this country are
you don't want to grow up to be doctors, lawyers, whatever,
But kids down there, I want to grow up to
be major League baseball players.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
It's just it's just the way it is.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
Whether you want to agree with it or not, it's
just true. And so's it's it has a different power
about it that maybe our power regarding becoming a Major
League baseball player. Always wanted to be we did you
know whatever, But it's just different, and okay, how do
you understand it?

Speaker 4 (07:39):
Go there?

Speaker 3 (07:40):
Go there, Go there, and walk the streets. First time
I went to the Dominican Republic in the eighties, I
was like blown away by the haves and the have not.
So it was no middle class whatsoever. It was just
people that had dirt floors and people had a couple
bucks in the middle. There's no such thing as the
middle class. But they were the happiest people I've ever met,
and that really I walked away from that experience thinking
that also and meaning that you really cannot miss what

(08:04):
you've never had. So there's there's so many lessons I
learned by going down there. With the one thing it was,
I love the people. And so when you watch them
celebrate at the conclusion of a game yesterday like that,
believe me, it is sincere and it is just dripping
with passion. That's all they got right there. If they're crying,
they mean it, and there's nothing is done for show

(08:25):
right there. And there was a lot of time to
the recent events, I'm certain in the past couple of months,
and so again, don't be surprised at a team like
that one.

Speaker 4 (08:37):
Don't be upset that America loss. They just for a brief.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
Period of time they played better baseball and they pitched
really well, and they became the champs.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah. I mean, there's no question.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
That's a great point that baseball is the national sport
in Venezuela. You just cannot say that about baseball in
America these days.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Maybe you did one hundred years ago.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
And if you're a good athlete growing up now in
the USA, you've got multiple choices right now that you
don't have a choice in Venezuela. But the pull toward
baseball is so strong it's just the natural thing to do.
It's part, as you mentioned, of every family growing up.
Let me ask the big question here, Joe. And this
is not just related to the final, in which the

(09:19):
USA had three hits, Race Harper had two, the rest
of the lineup was one for twenty six. It was
not just that last game. Last five games, you know,
after the US no longer saw teams like Great Britain
and Brazil walking the ballpark. They scored twenty runs in
five games, twenty runs in five games and hit two

(09:40):
twenty three. This is a team that lineup that they
started in the final are playing under major league contracts
worth one point five billion dollars. These are nine players
in the US lineup last night that hit two hundred
and fifty five home runs in last year's major league season.
That's more than twenty nine of the thirty teams in

(10:03):
Major League Baseball. They did not hit, period. I know, Joe,
you mentioned you know it's a small sample size. I
get that. I'm not dismissing it. I do think it's
the laziest excuse in the world. If I'm Team USA,
I need to do an autopsy into this.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Why does this team not hit.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
In the WBC? As the manager Mark de Rosas said, Oh,
I don't know what happened.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Man.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
We had these exhibition games in Arizona and we were
just crushing the ball and it just stopped.

Speaker 4 (10:40):
Listen.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
I don't know that there's a definitive answer here, but
I want to get your take, Jaw, any kind of
a theory that you might have on why this team
did not click even come close to it offensively?

Speaker 3 (10:52):
Well, I mean, these pictures really turned it up. I mean,
and they saw some really good arms here towards the
end of this event.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
Early on, probably they weren't.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
When you're not faced with, like, really when it take
all kind of a competition, the games that were playing
before that didn't mean anything, and so there was a
different looseless of different attitude about it at different everything
and even now they were being pitched to was completely different.

Speaker 4 (11:14):
It was just not things just that were not ramped up.
They were not turned up.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
The dial was not just blazing at the highest possible level,
which it was eventually when you get to the to
these kind of games.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
So they the pitching they saw.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
Prior to this, where they were just absolutely lamb basting,
it was not the same pitching they saw more recently.
And that's just fact. The games the games, and you're
in the dugout all the time. You could feel this stuff.
Go to sit in a spring training game and feel
what that feels like, and then go feel sit in
that dugout during that game and see what that feels like.
And I just think normally the pitchers are going to

(11:47):
be a little bit ahead right now if in fact
they do turn up the dial, and they did. You know,
you're watching this stuff and you're seeing all these different
pictures different countries, And of course, I mean a lot
of these guys that pitt really well for Venezuela or
Puerto Rico, whatever, Dominica. They they're major league pitch. They
got some good stuff. Brother, so they just turned it up.
They turned it up sooner, And I don't know, maybe

(12:09):
from the Americans perspective, I'm not that they expected anything.
I'm not saying that they did. These are good guys
and they prep whatever. But I don't know it does
it mean a little bit more to a Venezuelan kid that,
you know, like we just talked about geopolitically, all the
things that have been occurring in their country they're representing,
and listen, though we're Venezuela.

Speaker 4 (12:29):
We're proud, we are we are great, and we.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
Want people to take noticees I mean as a go
beyond just the game itself. I don't know, but just
from a baseball perspective, when pitchers turn it up the
dial and it's this early in the year and they
turn it up that high, I'm just saying, I do
believe it'd be a different outcome later in the year
when these guys, these these hitters had more opportunity to

(12:52):
really get battle tested against better stuff during the course
of the year. It's just like get out of bed
at eight o'clock in the morning and all of a
sudden you got to just start swinging away. It's not
it's not the same. So I think the way this
this this tournament set up, it's it's it's ripe for
this kind of an upset. Whereas if it happened later
in you and guys were maybe more fully engaged and

(13:14):
had everything together with their swings and they head their
feel down, it might have turned out a little bit differently.

Speaker 4 (13:18):
We'll never know that.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
But I just think it's the fact that the pitching
right now just turned it up and they just they
just beat our guys who just were not quite in
midseason form yet.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
Well, you're right about the pitching, I mean, especially we
got here to the semi finals. In the final, the
three last games here, the scores were four to two,
two to one, and three to two. I mean, small,
just thrillers of games one after the other because of it,
but I wanted to go through one at bat Joe,

(13:50):
which sort of typifies, you know, the US not hitting.
It's the sixth inning and the US is down two
to nothing, and there's two outs.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
Bryce Harper gets a base hit.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Aaron Judge comes to the plate as the tying run
of the game against Jose Buteaux of the Mets, but
to falls behind two and oh. He's behind two and
oh to Aaron Judge in a two run game. Sal
Perez calls time out, runs out to the mound. Labor
Torres comes in from second base. The longest male meeting
you've ever seen, because the umpires just don't allow those

(14:22):
in the major leagues to go that long the way
they do now with the emphasis on the pitch. Timer
and Perez goes back there to the plate. Buteau's next
pitch is a slider that is center cut. I mean,
you couldn't put it on a tee. Aaron Judge takes
it for strike one. Next pitch another slider out of
the zone. Easy take. It's three to one. The next

(14:45):
pitch is a center cut fastball, sinker middle middle. Aaron
Judge takes it three to two. Next pitch is a
slider center cut. Again, the third center cut pitch all mistakes.
He's not trying to throw the ball in the middle
of the plate to and Judge. It turns out. Perez
went out there and said, hey, listen, if we walk them,

(15:07):
we walk them. But we can't let this guy beat us.
And he grounds out the third base. I really caught
my attention. I'm not sure what he's thinking there. I
checked the numbers here, Aaron judge actually in two zero
counts on pitches that are in the strike zone, takes
more than he swings, which I hadn't realized until I
looked that up. And then the three to one fastball.

(15:29):
I mean, he must have been I don't know how
you do this, been sitting on a slider three and
one because he let a center cut fastball pass by
down two, three to one.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
And you know, again maybe we can too give the
deal out of this, Joe.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
But I know you talked about the drum dance and
chance before the game there. That is, you know, a
very popular in Latin America. The tambod I say call it.
It's just this traditional dance that they have based on
f ro Venezuelan roots, and it's kind of as Omar
Lopez told me, that's the way they play baseball, attack, attack,

(16:05):
whereas to me, the US style is walking home run.
You know, bring them the strike zone. You know, the
kind of passive aggressiveness when you get your pitch hit it.
In this case he didn't, but more likely to take
a pitch than the Latin American guys when it comes
to strikes in the zone. I just thought that won
at bat and listen, the game didn't turn on one
at BT, but the fact that he didn't pull the

(16:27):
trigger on two cookies in hitters counts.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
I just I shook my head. I was really surprised.

Speaker 4 (16:34):
You make me think.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
About Jimmy Edmonds and Garrett Anderson at times back in
the day, when they get ahead an account like that,
they would just sometimes they would just do the a
statue of liberty, just stand there because they thought the
pitch would never throw them a strike right there, or
they didn't didn't want to end up chasing a shrike
ball kind of a situation. So I don't know, I mean,
from his perspective, maybe he just thought there's no way

(16:55):
they're going to throw me a really good strike I
get or maybe I get too big, I get too
eager right here. That would be a conversation to have
with him specifically, But I've had guys do that, and
it was frustrating exactly that, and it would ask Jimmy
and Ga. I mean they would just sometimes just literally
actually say that did not expect them to throw a

(17:15):
strike right there. I thought they would not come after
me in that moment, And I would almost bet to
a certain extent, maybe Judge expects that kind of.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
Treatment at times.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
But you're right, I mean the two oh count it
was a breaking ball though, you said one of them
breaking ball.

Speaker 4 (17:28):
What was his fastball?

Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, the first one was a third straight slider, and
then the three to one fastball was the only fastball
he saw in the sequence.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
Yeah, it could be like just guessing a little bit,
or just like I'm saying, not expecting a pitch to
be thrown for a strike and or just willing to
accept as walk and moving along.

Speaker 4 (17:43):
I mean, who knows. I mean, there's so many different things.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
And then I did I remember the ground ball the
third base kind of a rollover ground ball look like
a decent pitch too. Again, it's just it's personally these
the way these guys approach things and how they see
things and how they've been you know, they probably discussed
things with either their hitting coach or another veterans somebody
that they've spoken to in the past about situational hitting
and what to look for. There's so much stuff going

(18:07):
on there, so I mean, it actually be a good conversation.
I don't know that you'd ever be able to have
that with Aaron, but there's definitely probably a method to
its madness. It's worked pretty well to this point. But
in a situation like that, you would think they're gonna
jump over a perceived cookie. But these guys, it's their method,
it's their way.

Speaker 4 (18:27):
Edmnd Martinez would never swing it the first pitch.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
You just throw the strike, one strike, one strike, one,
but heads up it was the seventh inning and you
wanted to do the same thing with the runner in
scoring position. They all have their methods and so it
could be frustrating to watch sometimes, but it's kind of
part of their process and they stay with it.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
Really interesting stuff. Hey, we're gonna take a quick break.
When we get back, I want to talk to Joe
about managing these WBC teams. Man, it is a difficult,
difficult job, and there's a lot of things that you
don't know about it that you should know about it.
And we'll get it to that right after this on
the Book of Joe.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. This is our
WBC wrap up edition.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
It just caused so much attention and excitement around the
baseball world. The ratings were terrific for the WBC, it's
really grown every year. We had the greatest collection of
talent we've ever seen. The WBC sign up for the US,
it was really important early on to get Aaron Judge
and Paul Skins on board. And when guys like that

(19:39):
sign up, you're gonna get a lot of other stars
to come.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
So every team was just loaded with stars. It was
a great event.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
And part of the problem for managers, Joe as you
know this, because you've had teams leave. Our guys leave
camp to go play in this exhibition, if you will.
In March, when you try to get ready for a
season and you're not really generally at full tilt, you know,
how do you handle their ramp up? And listen, these
guys are ramped up. I mean we saw that the energy,

(20:07):
the emotions in the ballpark. Just about every pitcher out there.
Nolan McLain, young guy throwing harder than he's ever thrown
in his life. Pitching in the Final at WBC Earlier,
Yamamoto from the Dodgers pitching for Team Japan, throwing as
hard as he did March, as he did last year
in the World Series. So with that mind, teams are
skittish about this. And quick story for you that you know.

(20:30):
Omar Lopez, the Venezuelan manager, was up with the staff
until three o'clock in the morning game planning against McLain
and the USA pitching staff goes to bed, wakes up.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
Eight thirty has flown.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
His phone is blowing up from Major League executives telling
him which guys he can use and which guys he
can't use. The Tigers, for instance, they said, and Manuel DeJesus,
one of their left handers who's pitching for his eighth organization,
twenty nine years old, he pitched the last couple of
years in Korea, pitched on Saturday through forty one pitch

(21:04):
and the Tiger said you can't use him today. Imagine
you're a kid from Venezuela playing for the World Baseball Championship.
You're basically a journeyman guy, and the club is said,
you can't pitch because you need more rest after throwing
x amount of pitches based on whatever algorithm they have
that the rest of us don't. And they the Cubs
called and they said, our closer Daniel Palencia pitched yesterday.

(21:25):
You can't use him today. And Balmar Lopez, wait a second.
You know this kid wants to pitch. He told me
last night. He feels good, he wants to pitch. And
the Cubs then said, well, what are the other guys
doing who pitched yesterday, and sly Omar said, well, we've
got clearance for these guys to pitch. Well, the Cubs
the Mariners did say that Edward Bizardo, who pitched the

(21:48):
day before, was good, but had had to be limited
to one inning, one clean inning, no up and down,
no more than three outs, so he wasn't totally lying.
And then the Cubs said, okay, well we'll let We'll
let him pitch, but only only in the case where
you just laid out here, if you have a chain
has to win the WBC, So only the ninth inning,
and only in a safe situation can Polentia pitch. And

(22:10):
that turned out to be huge because that's exactly what happened.
And then the other side, the USA lost this game,
very close game, obviously without using their best reliever.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
And Mason Miller, Now, why is that?

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Well, the padres said, Mason Miller, even after the day off,
cannot pitch. First of all, you can't pitch in the
middle of an inning. You can't drop him in the
middle of inning. You can't have him throw more than
twenty five pitches. And the only way you can use
him is if you have a lead. You cannot use
him in a tie game. So Mark de Rosa couldn't
bring his best reliever into the game in a tie game,
and he lost without getting to Mason Miller. Now he

(22:46):
had Garrett Whitlock on the mound, who's red Sox said
you can use him in a tie game, and he
just was not sharp at all, and he had been
sharp with the entire tournament his first couple of addings.
So a lot of these things going on, but behind
the scenes, especially with pitching.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
And I'm telling you, yeah, yeah, you know, I talked to.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
A lot of these managers, Joe, and you now hard
the job as anyway in running a staff. Now you're
trying to please thirty different organizations with different agendas about
what to do with guys.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
So when you sit down.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
You watch a game in the WBC, man be careful
about what you're second guessing because there's probably things behind
it you have no idea about.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
And that bleeds over to the regular season, because what
you just described happens every day.

Speaker 4 (23:28):
It happens every day.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
It's just the difference is that it's with your team
and your bullpen in this situation, and before the game
you're basically told who you can and cannot use. And
then even to the point where a lot of times
they'll they'll try to choreograph it before the game regarding
you want to use different guys. Now, I would imagine
that if you've done it for a while, I mean manage,

(23:50):
you should easily almost like match up the matchups that
your front office wants to create for you. The difference
would be that before the game begins, they'll come down
to your office and tell you cannot pitch that night,
even though the pitchers had been playing for years. What
happens is the relief pitchers get out, they go through
the routine, they're out there with the bullpen coach, and
they're out there and they start playing catch, and then

(24:11):
the pitching coach wanders by and they start talking about,
you know, for tonight, how do you feel, And of
course you look at the numbers, how many pitches they've
thrown over the last couple of days, how manys they've pitched,
et cetera, et cetera, and then from that you develop
a plan for that night based on is this guy.

Speaker 4 (24:27):
Available or not?

Speaker 3 (24:28):
And that was always done via the bullpen slash pitching
coach or both these guys in conjunction with the pitcher himself.
And then they come to the manager and they say
so and so is uper He's down for tonight.

Speaker 4 (24:38):
Okay, he's a.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
Little stiff, he needs an extra day, or you would
hear something like if you get him up, you got
to get him in. But if you get him up
and don't put him in, he can't get him up again.
He's down for the day. You hear that, that was
a different thoughts you would hear from the pitching coach,
bullpen coach and the pitcher. So then you, as a
manager'd be able to create your game plan for the day.

Speaker 4 (24:58):
I've been doing it for years.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
I was doing it for years in the minor leagues
when nobody ever told you anything about really, how many
pitches you could throw anybody, or how often you can
use a relief pitcher. You used to do that on
your own. I used to keep my own charts and
add my own little methods of member of pitches, throwner
of inningstone, number of days in a row, throne. I've
always had my own little cocktail for that, as well
as you know, the conversation with the player. Sometimes I

(25:22):
would just go up to a guy and say, listen,
it's a sneaker's day. Brother, don't even talk, don't even try,
you're out put your sneakers on that set. And other
days I could be convinced it's based on the numbers
are vague. But what happens now is that they come
downstairs and I'm telling you it's it's true, and it's
well you just described there's exactly what happens, only that
this was like a variety of multiple organizations checking in,

(25:44):
whereas about just one organization checking in about a variety
of different pictures on your staff. So yes, it's very
difficult for managers. But the way it's set up right now,
it's part of the landscape. It's it's the furniture in
the living room and that's how it's going to work.
And the managers know that some guys probably look for it.
They want the guidance a little bit more. There's maybe
not so much, but regardless, that's just the way it is.

(26:07):
It's just like Bruce Hornsby said, so what you just
described there is absolutely believable, and you're right. So when
it comes down to second guessing, folks understand that sometimes
hands are tied, or most of the times they are.
And when it comes down to just maybe going I
don't want to say offscript because it doesn't happen very often,

(26:28):
but to go and I don't even want to use
the word rogue, but just to do what you think
is the right thing to do. It better work because
if it doesn't work, sometimes you're going to have a
long conversation after the game.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
The other thing I wanted to get to Joe is
I'm not sure if you saw the end of the
US Dominican game.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
It was a great game.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
It was tense throughout one up being a two to
one final, and Miller was on the mound. Mason Miller
is on the mound, and the tying run actually got
to third base with Heroldo Perdomo in the batter's box,
who's one of the tougher guys to strike out in baseball,
had an epic at bat against Mason Miller.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
I mean, just Mason Miller.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
I don't know how anybody gets a hit off this guy,
and very actually very few people, do you know. He
throws about fifty to fifty percentage of sliders and fastballs,
and the fastballs well over one hundred and the slider
is just off the table. Most of his strikeouts come
on the slider, and Prodomo is just spoiling pitches. He's
spitting on the spoiling pitches, just hanging in there. Eight

(27:24):
nine pitches and here comes the last pitch of three
to two curveball which he takes. It's a slider, which
he seemed to recognize, and it's well below the strike zone.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
It is not a borderline pitch. It is well below
the zone.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
Will Smith behind the plate does a nice job of
trying to catch it as early as he can, reaching
out before it drops any further. And then the hand
moves up actually all the way to the top of
the strike zone, almost certainly above the midway point of
the strike zone. I'm not going to give him credit
for presenting or framing that pitch other than reaching out
before it drops so far, But Corey Blazer's the home

(27:59):
plate umpire punched him out, called it strike three. Oh
my goodness, I felt so bad for Perdomo, for a
hitter to work that hard against such a great pitcher
in that bat and have the umpire decide not just
the bat but the game. It just made me and
I'm sure many other people, Joe say, thank goodness ABS

(28:20):
is coming.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
The challenge system. It was not used in the WBC.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
You're going to see it starting next week in Major
League Baseball once we get going here in the regular
season opening day, so that we will not have games
and where people are talking about the umpire blowing a
call rather than the players deciding a game. If you
were ever on the fence about ABS, I'm not sure
why you ever would be. Just look at that pitch,

(28:47):
see how that game ended, and you tell me that
ABS is not a good thing.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
Well, that's if in fact the team has a challenge
left correct, that is true, that could be possibly right one,
and yeah, then you're out of luck. That's what's going
to start speaking too, like you eventually turning it over
entirely to the ABA system and the umpire just downparting
the game in a sense. Foul balls, whatever, check swings
and those kind of thing. Yeah, I mean I saw

(29:15):
the pitch that he did do a nice job of
receiving the pitch.

Speaker 4 (29:19):
It is frustrating.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
And again when you when it's an ending kind of that,
it's like, that's like an end of the season call
right there, although it at the end of the WBC call,
It's tough. It's really tough. I mean, for years we
were able to complain about it after the game, you know,
you would talk among one another and reassure one another
that it was a ball, it was a bad call,
et cetera, et cetera. But you always turned the page.

(29:43):
You just had to turn the page. I had no
choice but to turn the page. And who knows how
many times that happened. I remember one game we lost
in Texas.

Speaker 4 (29:53):
I think we've talked about this.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
Joe Nathan's at whatever three hundred save I think it
might have been to pitch this Zobras was so far
outside and down on the ground. I even went up
to the second We've talked about it some one of
the second based on party says you got to change that.
It was like, was that bad? It was that it
was that bad. That was the last pitch of the game.
So for years we've put up with this kind of stuff.

(30:18):
I guess again, with the way the world works right now,
we have to be perfect about everything. And I'm not
I'm not disputing what you just said because it is
available to us now. But for years we've gone through
those kind of things or moments where it has not
been spoken about nearly enough or or often enough, or
pointed out like you just did, because we just there

(30:39):
was no recourse. There was no recourse to it. So
I've seen it. It was a tough one, it was
a close pitch, it was down. However, for years we've
just been able to turn the page.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, and I give credit to the Jamaican team because
that's exactly what their position was after the game. They
were I thought, very classy about it. In this case,
there were no more pages to turn. You're out of
the tournament, right right right. I thought there was respond
to it was terrific. You know, as you know, Joe,
a lot of times you will say, you know, it

(31:09):
really is not one pitch. Don't put yourself in that
position where you can lose, you know, on the flip
of a call or a bounce of a ball. But
it did happen. But again, very impressive with the way
they handled it. And Joe, we've got to talk about
Team Italy. They almost shocked the world. They made a
run to the semifinals here and it was just really
impressive watching that team play. Vinnie Passedpentino. Oh my goodness,

(31:35):
he's the captain of the team. He's the heart and soul.
Ned Coletti, the general manager, been around baseball for more
than forty years, told me he's one of the greatest
leaders that he has ever been around.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
This is the team.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Obviously, he saw it a lot, the videos of them
celebrating home runs with shots of espresso in the dugout.
Then he pretty much runs that the kiss on the
cheeks on the home runs. He hands out bottles of wine,
really good bottles of wine, by the way, Joe, I mean,
we're talking about like one hundred and forty hundred and
fifty bucks of wine to give to the pitcher and
the player of the game. And they're not always necessarily

(32:08):
you know, the best necessarily the most important or a
key contributor passing out those bottles of wine.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
After the game.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
When they've traveled from Arizona to Houston and Houston to Miami.
They cranked the music and they were all singing. Everybody
on the plane, entire plane, singing along to Andrea Bocelli
or Frank Sinatra. They slipped in a little Billy Joel
as well. So just congratulations to the Team Italy. You know,

(32:36):
as you know, Joe, there's only like one hundred thousand
maybe not even people who play baseball in the entire country.
They do have a professional league there, but you know,
it's it's all soccer. But people were actually following baseball.
They got great ratings for the semi final there.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Over in Italy.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
The sports pages there devoted page one stories to baseball,
which literally had never happened before they became a thing,
which you hope maybe there's kids now in Italy who think,
you know what that looks like a pretty cool game.
Maybe I'll pick up a glove, you'll pick up a bat,
see what this game is like. So congratulations Team Italy.

(33:13):
I just think that's the best side of the WBC
we know about the teams that are obviously just completely
in love with this game.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
But the original goal of this game was to.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
Grow the game internationally, and stories like this really are
at the heart of that mission.

Speaker 4 (33:28):
And I loved all of that. I did.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
I love the espresso machine and the Doug. I love
the kiss on the cheeks. I don't know if any
but it was beautiful to watch.

Speaker 4 (33:36):
It looks like it reminded me.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
A lot of Riz actually, So I was watching that
whole thing unfold. I've done clinics in Italy several times,
and it started in the mid nineties and it was
a small little group there that was very interested in baseball.
I went back again after that, and so I was
either it was in Florence, I was.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
In Milano in a town called row Rho.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
Did clinics with kids, like young kids too, just to
and again they were trying to grow the game. But
this is the one thing that I think could really
be a difference maker for them. But above all, what
you just described right there, I mean that I just
hope they don't become too serious about it. I mean
they were having fun. You're supposed to have fun. You're
supposed to have fun. I mean, that's what it is.

(34:18):
We forget to have fun. I mean a lot of
a lot of the way we're doing professional sports that
we're legislating fun out of the game, where we're just
it's becoming a little bit too heavy handed and a
little bit too of everything.

Speaker 4 (34:31):
So I love the idea that I loved everything they did.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
Francisco Civili and I our friends. I was very happy
for his success right there. I hope he does get
an opportunity to manage. There was so many cool things
about that, and the fact that you know, we are
half I'm half a tiny anyway, it might be full,
I'm not sure. But as well, it was just fun
fun to watch, Okay, so it was fun to watch,
and so yes, all the above. Sometimes if you've never

(34:55):
done it before, you need pressure release valves.

Speaker 4 (34:57):
You don't.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
You don't need to apply more pressure. There's enough of
you. You just describe what happened in the United States losing,
Venezuela winning, And there's kind of like a different attitude
between both sides and regards how we approach the day.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
The people of Latin America.

Speaker 3 (35:11):
Absolutely live the day they do, and that's one of
the things I learned by going to the Dominican back
in the day. Was how they approached the day. It
was just different in so many wonderful ways. And sometimes
we're a little bit tight about things, and then you
look at their approach to Monday or Tuesday was it's
so cool. So anyway, I'm happy for all the success.

(35:33):
I think it's great. I really would love to see
Italy become even more involved and we do grow the
game in Europe. I've done clinics all over Europe. Actually
it was wonderful. It was just for me. It was
a cultural experience besides this baseball experience. But if the
game could grab a football, I'll volunteer right now to
work for the Barcelona anythings Barcelona ever gets the team,

(35:54):
I will be a clubby for Barcelona.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
That's great stuff. Yeah, I forgot forgot to mention too.
They have a home run jacket. It's Armani in Armani
jacket and Savelli. I was really impressed with Francisco. I
think he should be a major league manager one day.
One of these connectors. You know, just a great communicator,
loves the game, and you know, he had just a

(36:20):
good way about him in terms of keeping the game fun.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
I mean, I first.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
Personally got a kick out of the fact that watching
being down the dugout there and watching Team Italy they
were all on the top row. If you go to
a major League game, hardly any of the position players
are ever on the top row. They're all sitting down,
They're all in their iPads. They're all looking at the
last pitch. It's I tell people all the time, it's
like going to the Firestone Library at Princeton. They're all reading.

(36:46):
You know, they're not talking to each other. You know,
what is the pitcher throwing? Instead of asking the guy
who just bat it, It'll go look at the iPad. Well,
Tim Italy didn't have the iPads throughout the pool play
a Major League Baseball gave them the iPads for the
SAM semi final games. They weren't using it, but the
same deal. They were actually talking to each other about baseball.

(37:07):
You could call it analog baseball. It was awesome to
say nice it was American Legion baseball. It was very
authentic and oh, I mean just the communication that went on.
You could see these how close these guys bonded over
baseball and to see the game played that way, it's
just refreshing.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
And by the way, it's a good call on Rizzo
on your part.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
At Jason Zillow is their PR director for the Yankees
and for Team Italy actually because he's worked with riz
with the Yankees. He said, I can't believe that Vinnie
actually makes Anthony Rizzo look like an introvert.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
He's that loll that's funny, it's awesome. And then analog
baseball brother, you just you just coined it.

Speaker 4 (37:51):
That is beautiful. That is a T shirt waiting to
happen right there. I love all of that.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
You're right about the pads, the iPads, and oh my god,
I mean, nobody watches anything anymore, and that's that's the
game is being played out there. There's everything to be
learned out there and very little to be learned on
that pad and with its through conversation. Why do the
Italians live so long? Because they sit on street corners
and cafes and they drink coffee all night and they
sip a little bit of wine. But from when I ran,

(38:16):
a big part of their longevity process is the fact
that they just communicate so well with one another.

Speaker 4 (38:22):
And why would a.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
Baseball team not be successful in the same way if
we just communicate with one another. But brother, I swear
to God, I love analog Baseball. I love that line.
I'm gonna use it. I'm gonna tell you straight up,
but I'm always gonna give you credit for it. That
is a beautiful thing. I love that.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
I don't need credit. I just need one of the
T shirts.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
Okay, well we could that is you know, that is
a great That is a great name for like even
like a podcast or something like that. Analog Baseball. There's
a lot we can do with that. And furthermore, before
we he cuts me off, we and this whole thing.
We did play golf the other day. Tommy did come
down and we played golf. Tommy had not played golf
all winter. I mean, I guess hit a simulator. I'm

(39:05):
here to tell you, folks. He crushed the ball. He
played extremely well, and of course he had never played before.
We had a nice spout. It was went back and
forth the whole way. It was outstanding. But this fella
hits the ball far. He's very strong as a nice
iron game. And just want to say that out loud.
So if you're gonna go out there and bet with

(39:25):
reduce he heads up. Even if he hasn't played for months,
he could still hit it far and straight.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah, thanks for blowing my cover there. Now I'm gonna
have to give strokes.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
Dude, I'm serious. I was like shocked he came out
of the shoot the first toll. He drives it over
that hill on the side and it's way down there.
Damn that think went farther than I thought. It's like
it's it's like easy gas. He's got easy gas. Folks.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Well, you were a gracious host, Joe, terrific course.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
By the way, I had really a great time, great track,
kind of that old Florida feel, which I love. Uh
So that was a special Dick. Glad we got that
in absolutely. Hey, we're gonna take a quick break and
when we get back, Joe, I'm not sure you heard
about it, but Major League Baseball is going to try
out some more rule changes in the minor leagues.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
They're coming to a minor league team near you. What
are they? Wow, we'll talk about those right after this.
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. Yeah, Joe, I
mentioned these rule changes, and it's kind.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
Of cool that Baseball is using the minor leagues as
their lab right, you can break things there and get
away with it.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
I have no problem with that.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
They're going to try out, I think at Triple A
actually using technology to determine check swings. Now, this may
have kept you at more games over the years, Joe,
where they're gonna say if the bat goes more than
forty five degree angle, that will be considered a swing.
As you know, the swing is not defined. There is
no formal, hard definition of a swing in the rule book.

(41:06):
I tell people all the time what the umpires do,
and they're the ones who taught me this as a
rule of thumb. They look down the foul line and
if the barrel crosses above a parallel line with the
foul line, then they'll determine that as a swing because
the baseline umpires are literally standing on the line, unless
obviously there's a guy on first base. But I kind

(41:27):
of liked trying that out and see how it works.
I mean, it is, it's the course, it's the generator
of so many arguments, Joe. It's such a hard call
for umpires to make. It happens so fast, and managers
and players are so adamant that they did or they
didn't depending on the you know, way their offense defense.

(41:47):
I kind of like the fact I want to see
how this works out. I have nothing against you know,
we just talked about analog baseball, but in this case,
I think it may be proper to use it.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
What do you think, big fan.

Speaker 4 (41:59):
I've been on this for a while.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
I mean i've been That is one of my biggest
pet peeves was the check swing. My first ejection as
an interim manager was in Baltimore on a check swing.
We needed more with the advancement of technology. I thought
that's one of the first places we should have looked
at because that's such the nebulous call right there, and
more so than a ball that Will Smith caught well

(42:20):
underneath the strike zone to end the game on a
check swing that was either absolutely a swing or absolutely
not a.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
Swing, that would bother me even more. I think. So
I love this, I absolutely love it. I read about it.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
It's something and their definition that they that was written
down about the what the angles.

Speaker 4 (42:37):
Of forty five three angle? Is that? What it is
right that exeeds? Okay, I'm good.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
I mean there's a place to start, It's a good
place to start. And then you could refine it from
there as you move it along. But I'm all on
board with the check swing becoming a little bit more,
not a little bit, we're a lot more, hopefully defined,
because that used to bother me as much as anything.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
The other one is moving second base.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Yeah, it sounds really weird, right, But if you took
string and connected all the bases and the diamond shape
that they're laid out in, you would see that second
base is not it. Basically it's lined up in the
middle of the strings. What they want to do is
move the base closer to home plate so that the
entire base is within those strings, if you will, those

(43:22):
imaginary strings.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Hopefully you see the picture.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
But if you do that, obviously moving the base closer
to the other bases, so the distance between first and
second base, which got closer by what an inch and
a half when they went to bigger bases now would
get even closer.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
I forget what the math is, just.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
A few inches, but a few inches could be a lot, obviously,
So they're going to try that out to move second
base entirely, as they say, within the infield.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
And it's always been on the dirt. We know that.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
But in terms of the geometric diamond that the bases
do form, it would be entirely within that. I think
the idea here, Joe, is that the stole base rate
actually the success rate anyway. And I think also the
attempts went down slightly and maybe teams have learned to
defend the stolen base better. They also talked about limiting

(44:15):
the step offs to one per batter plate appearance, which
I don't like. I think you need to have second one.
But give me your thought on moving the base, because
it sounds weird. I don't think that's a small thing.
I do think that would really increase the stolen base percentage.
How much you don't know until you actually try it.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
Yeah, we move fences, and you move the mound up
and down a little bit by moving bases. I mean,
that's like at the heart of its that baseball diamond
is going to be restructured in some way. I just
don't like the idea of the attempt to make things easier. Okay,
that's how I see it. For years and the stolen

(44:55):
based leaders and the champions of all time have worked
from this particular grid, and now that everybody's working from
a different grid, for me, it would be about more
tolerance if you do get thrown out. I mean, why
do you have to be safe? I mean, seriously, why
don't you get why do you why didn't you get?
Why do you get some better instructors in there possibly
or teach these guys how to do it. But I

(45:16):
don't like the idea of limited throwovers.

Speaker 4 (45:18):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
I don't like anything that impacts strategy, and this impacts
strategy for me if you're talking about one less step
off whatever. So I I'm sure it'll become innocuous over time,
which things normally do become if you don't fight for
it now. And if it doesn't really matter now, it's
not going to matter five years from now.

Speaker 4 (45:37):
That's that's been moved. So I'm just.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
Anti impacting game in game strategy. I'm not into making
things necessarily easier for the sake of just making them easier,
because you want people to be better at something. It's
been harder for a long time for a reason. Okay,
so now there's no more Ricky Henderson to hire, But
there's got to be somebody out there, bring somebody in

(46:01):
that really is able to teach this better. I mean
stealing of the basis, And then of course, how much
do you pay attention to your analytical guys and how
much when somebody gets thrown out is it going to.

Speaker 4 (46:12):
Cause you sleepless nights?

Speaker 3 (46:13):
I mean, because that's really what happens, and not even
realizing the fact that you are active on the basis
that you do try things, on the basis that you
do take big leads or whatever, really causes the other
team to hurry up sometimes or maybe to prepare even more.
Sometimes it gives them more to think about sometimes because
of all of the fact that there's even a threat

(46:34):
to do this. Now I know they're trying to create
even a greater threat, which I mean they might just
throw up their hands because we've talked about this too
analytically speaking, I mean I've known, I mean for years
they never even worried about that, because the analytical people
aren't so much worried about that the stolen base as
much as you getting as the pitcher getting the hitter out.
So I mean, I'm all over the place of this.
But that's how it's been for me, how it's been

(46:55):
explained to me in the past. I just think it's
don't be messing with the games that much. I mean
when you start changing the not the field. I mean,
the defenses have always been altered, but the diamond itself
and the distance of a mound, which has not been
altered to this point. At least, let's leave it alone.
I think it's been fine the way it's spin.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yeah, I can't argue with you on that.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
I think one of the things they may be worried
about is time of game starting to creep up a
little bit, because don't forget we just talked about the
ABS system. Listen, on average, in the minor leagues, there
are only four challenges per game. It's like three minutes
maybe not even like two minutes added time to a game,
but it's added. And then if you're going to check
on check swings, now that's maybe another minute.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
And one other rule by the way, maybe this is
a good one. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
If your PitchCom doesn't work, and we see this happen
a lot, right, especially believers who come into the game,
Oh I can't hear anything. Usually happens when the pitch
timer is running down, and if that happens, you'll be
charged with a mound visit now, So your it department
better be on top of things and have those things charged.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
God, oh my god. Yeah, listen, it is what it is.
I again, it's very very basically simply. I mean, if
the game has been gone going on one or two
minutes longer, that's not a big deal.

Speaker 4 (48:12):
I don't think it's about the pace of the game.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
They've already addressed that the superstar is in place, the
pitch clock is in place. That's the superstar. Now all
this other stuff is not necessary. After you've done that,
the pace of the game has been picked up. And
that was the problem if you're in a dugout as
a manager, as a coach, as a player, in the
interminable moments where a guy would not throw the baseball

(48:35):
in the moundtery but not get into batter's box as
a hitter, those are the things that would really kind
of like fry you.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
A little bit.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
And also I'll even go with the trips to the
mount because guys would just go out there all the
time and that would just drive you nuts too. So
just pace, just keep your eye on the pace of
the game, not so necessarily about the length of the game,
because the game is wonderful as it is, and if
it just continues to flow, nobody's going to notice that
it's an extra five or six or seven minutes longer.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
It's a great point. It is all about the pace.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
It's not the time of the game, is the pace
of the action of the game and baseball. I mean, listen,
it's the best thing that happened to baseball since Harry M.
Stevens have been to the hot Dog at a cold day,
and I think it was Polo Grounds about one hundred
and twenty years ago.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
It really is.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
And Joe, you and I are both fans of nineteen
eighty style baseball, liberal arts style baseball. Right, you'll be
happy to know that Major League baseball average time of
a nine in a game for the past three years
has been no longer than two hours and forty minutes.
And that's the first time it has happened since the
early nineteen eighties. So you have now a whole generation

(49:41):
of people who now are just discovering baseball, or maybe
they're getting back to it, who can really enjoy the
game without this narrative which we had for I don't
know twenty years, that baseball is boring and.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
It takes too long.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
If you've noticed that narrative is dead done and it's
all because of the pitch time or the pace of game.
So I'm glad you brought that up. About the pace
of the game. We saw it in WBC. We saw it,
We see it during the season. The pace is terrific.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
You're referencing analog baseball, I believe, as being so interesting.

Speaker 4 (50:13):
There you go, that's that's what it is.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
I mean, baseball eight not as interesting as analog baseball,
is much more interesting than than digital baseball.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
I agree with that one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
All right, Well, now we've reached, as the WBC, the end,
but the end only of this episode. We've got a
Major League Baseball regular season right around the corner, which
is amazing to me because I feel like I just
went through the postseason, Joe, in the last two weeks exactly.

Speaker 4 (50:37):
I know you have you have, man, but.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
The games have been great, like postseason environments. I'll take it,
and maybe not every March, but every three years.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
It's perfect. So what do you have to end this one?
As our closer?

Speaker 3 (50:49):
The passion that was displayed yesterday at the conclusion, you've
already we've talked about that and you brought it up
really well. So you watch the way these folks react
to and it just made me think about Boulder Collegians
nineteen seventy five, Salem Angels nineteen eighty two, and I
have Angels two thousand and two, Tampa Bay Raised and
finish it, but it was two thousand and eight, and

(51:12):
then of course the Cubs in twenty sixteen, and forever
it is composed of nows.

Speaker 4 (51:19):
I love.

Speaker 3 (51:20):
That's Emily Dickinson. It's a poem she had written. So
all these people involved, whether you were talking about players,
are specifically you're talking about fans in the stack because
they kept cutting away and you know a lot of
Venezuelan fans there, And I just cannot help but think
that it is far more reaching than just winning a
baseball game for that particular group, based on the recent

(51:41):
history what happened in their country. So there these are
moments that you'll never ever, never ever forget, And it's forever.
It's composed of nows. So I have that T shirt
that I made years ago that I wear often still
and I love it. That made all your surrealisms come true,
And that was a surrealistic moment for all those people yesterday,
and so another way of saying it forever, it is

(52:02):
composed of nows and I really love that.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
It's a great way to end it. Love that line.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
I've actually never heard that one before, but that is
a fitting and poetic way to end not just this episode,
but really a terrific WBC. Congratulations to Venezuela. It was
a great tournament obviously for the country. But if you're
a baseball fan, my goodness, what a show. Got to
be happy with it opening day right around the corner

(52:27):
of Joe. Yes, sir, looking forward to another year of
Major League baseball with you right here at the Book
of Joe.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
We'll see you next time.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
Thank you, brother, same here and watch out for those
Atlanta Hawks. See you, guys.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
And The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
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