June 4, 2026 • 51 mins
Welcome to June baseball and it's time for Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci to look at how offense has changed this season. The impact of ABS on pitching, hitting, and the umpires can't be denied and Tom shares the surprising evidence. What is the biggest struggle of the Yankees this season and can they fix it? Tom and Joe reveal their biggest pet peeves in baseball before highlighting one of the best hitters in the game.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Darren, welcome back.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
It's the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci,
and of course Joe Madden.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Hey Joe, Welcome to June. How you doing right?
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I mean it's we talk about it in spring training.
How spring training drags. Oh, it's too long. It's too long.
We got to short enough spring training that before you
notice June and then before you notice September. It's incredible
how the baseball thing works. I felt it all along.
I love the sachet feeling of spring training. Never thought
(00:46):
it was too quick or too short or too long.
Excuse me, that was just right. And then the season
is very long but then becomes short. It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, And you know as well, your vast experience, that
we have played enough games now where there's enough miles
on the odometer.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
You know how this season is going. You've got some trends. Obvious.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Doesn't mean it's gonna stay that way, but I don't
think it's more it's a small sample size anymore. And
that brings me to the New York Yankees. I want
to get your take on the Yankees here. First of all,
let me start with this in terms of offense and
how we judge teams, Joe, the batting average in May
in Major League Baseball was two thirty nine.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
That's the fourth lowest in the live ball area.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
That's going back to nineteen twenty only nineteen sixty eight,
nineteen sixty six. You know how bad offense was back then,
and nineteen seventy two were worse in terms of the
batting average for the season. We know the walks are
highest since two thousand. We've talked about this. Some of
this is ABS related. Slugging percentage is the lowest it's
(01:50):
been since twenty fourteen, and if you're talking about total
bases per team game, the lowest since nineteen ninety two.
So this is a year now, year one of the
ABS system. And there was some thought that the ABS
was going to force pitchers back into the middle of
the zone and those kind of framed strikes if you will,
those balls that are called strikes because the catchers frame
(02:13):
it and pitchers on the edges. Those were not going
to happen apparently with the ABS and was going to
come force pitchers back in the middle of the zone.
I don't see that happening, Joe, I think pitchers are
ruling the day more than ever. I bring this up
because we're going to talk about the Yankees and their offense.
But first of all, give me your sense of where
baseball is right now. You're one of abs as it
(02:34):
relates to offense.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Well, it's interesting. I think I am the right war
is not being skeptic. I just wasn't sure because it's
like everything else. I've been out for a bit, so
you don't get to see it in play. But now
I'm watching it, and I'm just watching them last night
the race game a bit and their catcher for the
Rays challenge of pitch Ladder part of the game, and
he was wrong as a hitter, and then you just
(02:59):
see how everything flips right there and then probably creates
a level of doubt in his own mind the next
time he comes up to the play, whether to challenge
something or not. So there's there's this, there's this little game,
the human game that's rolling in this within the a
BS system. That there's a confidence component to this, being
like very confident or less confident based on success or
(03:20):
failure with challenging this thing. So there's that to be
contended with. Also, then you know it's concerned about umpires,
umpires being proven wrong and how they would react to that,
and would it make them a little bit gun shy,
less demonstrative in what they do. But I don't think so.
I think, you know, umpires always want everything to be
right anyway, so if they're corrected, I do believe that
(03:44):
with part of this it's not spoken about, that makes
them even better is that when they are corrected, they
could then make an adjustment behind a plate. There's something
Ian Happitt spoken about. We had talked about where the
a BA system would be just a little uh earpod
in the Empire's ear and nothing would be changed, but
when he was wrong, he would be told about it.
(04:05):
So I think the empire is being told when they're wrong,
or even when they're right, reinforces their strike zon. So
I think there's a benefit with that. So I think,
almost almost weirdly, it might create more doubt in the
in the player side of the ABA system and more confidence,
and the umpire is part of this. And then having
said all that, pictures, let's just go for the edges.
(04:29):
If I could just nick the edge, I mean just
nick it it's going to be called the strike. And
so I think, and again that's those pictures with control
and commander are able to do that as opposed there's
a lot of rock throwers out there, guys who just
wind up and throw as hard as they possibly can
or attempt to. But then there's also still a level
of pitching available and the guys that do that, there's
(04:51):
benefits there. I mean, if you just really constantly try
to hit the edges and know if I do nick
it with confidence that it's going to be called the strike.
And then you got like you're talking about these batting
average and a seliking percentage, Now what is that mean? Uh?
But then you then I watched the Rays, and I
watched the Brewers and how they move the baseball, and
just so is this is this all gonna indicate a
(05:12):
shift in philosophy flexibility being entertained here where we just
can't analytically we have to like readjust what we what
are analytical vision glasses tell us what to look at.
So there's a lot of there's a lot of little
innuendo and play right here. And that's just my take,
my take on what I'm seeing right now. I think
(05:32):
that the empire can become more confident, the hitter in
the and the catcher can become less confident, and then
now there may be a necessary shift and the way
they're teaching it, because if this continues this way, hopefully
teams that are like I've always talked about have it
all that. They have a little pop, they know how
to move the baseball. They're on the base as well,
they take the extra base, you go first to third,
(05:53):
they stay advanced on balls and a dirt et cetera,
et cetera. That might be coming back and Vogue. We'll see.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, I like your take on that.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I think we're in the process of kind of adjusting,
if you will, to a different world with abs and
I think moving the baseball is certainly I think going
to be, if not already, at.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
More of a premium and put more of an emphasis
on that.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
I'm looking at the bottom five offensive teams in baseball.
This is shocking to me, Joe. The bottom five teams
in terms of runs per game all were contenders at
the start of the season, teams like you thought should contend,
spending a lot of money. Starting at twenty six, it
goes Padres Phillies, Giants, Royals, Tigers, the Tigers the worst
(06:39):
offense in baseball. These are teams built going into the
year to contend. It's just a kind of a different
world offensively.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah. Again, it may be the signal you'd like to use,
a siren call for the ship. We don't know. I
don't know that yet. But I'm watching like the Tigers,
and you know, they got a lot of guys that
really swing up. I mean, they just they like is
it Riley Green? Yes, I mean I know he's been
somewhat successful, but I mean, my god, this is like
almost Adam Kennedy asked, the way he almost swings completely
(07:11):
up at the ball like it's on a tee literally,
you know, Turkles and all these guys have a real
upper kind of path to their swings. And then you
watch like the Rays, even Kamen Arrows, man, I god,
do I love that guy. He's got some kind of ability.
And then you've got Chandler Simpson, who see's I want
more of those? I want I want more of those
(07:32):
in baseball for sure. There's an entertainment value to that.
I mean, Okay, home runs beautiful, everybody digs on and
the chickstick, the long wall, that stuff. But my god,
when you get a guy playing with his hair on
fire and because is able to do different things that
most everybody else cannot do in the league, that's entertainment, man.
So I just really want them to be successful, and
(07:54):
I want those kind of players to be successful because
there is there will be an analytical shift, There's no
question about it, especially if one of these teams just
finishes the whole season up difficult. I know that the
Dodgers are in the way the Yankees and their methodologies
in the way I get all that. However, from an
entertainment perspective, value got the Brewers and the Race are
two of my favorite teams to watch.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I like your point about the Tigers too, Joe, because
I think we saw this with pitching, where for a
while there the rage was everybody was trying to foreseeing
the fastball with high spin the top of the zone,
get the high vert get your hand behind the baseball.
We've learned a lot more about pitching that based on
the way your body works, essentially and how your wrist
(08:36):
and elbow rotate. Basically, you can drop pitchers in the
two buckets. Pronators and Supernators, and the Supernators had a
hard time getting their hand behind the baseball to throw
those high four seam fastballs, and it actually did cause
a lot of injuries. And I think now the pitching
world is really adapted to kind of fit. It's almost like,
you know, bespoke suit. You fit a pitcher to his
(08:59):
arsenal based the way his body wants to work. And
I think the same thing is going to happen offensively
that there's a lot of teams that do have I
don't know, I just say launch angle, but an emphasis
on pole side ball in the air right, And you know, Joe,
when you do that, you're going to have more swing
and miss right. So I don't think that's a formulation. Yeah,
(09:21):
it's great to hit the ball in the air to
the pole side. We all love power. It changes games.
We've talked about this in the postseason. It wins championships.
But you can't build a lineup entirely of those guys.
So I think kind of a bespoke way of hitting
is going to have to be in vogue here like
it isn't pitching. And maybe the Brewers and the Jas
(09:42):
and the Rais, these teams you mentioned are a little
bit of ahead in that regard.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yes, as a hitting coach for years, I always wanted
to adapt to the student, and you always have to
be prepared to say the same thing to different players.
In other words, so you're trying to get the same
concept across, but it doesn't make sense to everybody. So
you have to be verbally nimble in regards to getting
your point across. And again, there's nothing more important to
(10:08):
me than to be able to adapt to what your
students able to do or not do. When you try
to force methods on body types and the way the
body's been working since the shoot, since they've been in
literally maybe I mean the way the body works, it's hard.
It's hard to change those patterns. They've been doing it
for so many years. My concern was always about the
potential for injury, especially when it came to throwing when
(10:30):
you wanted to change that psych quote unquote an armstroke,
if you want to change a hitting stroke. I still
believe and I remember Gary Sutherland, a great scout who
passed away not long ago, was part of the Major
League Scouting Bureau. They had they videotaped a lot of
guys when they came out of high school and then
they became major league baseball players, and what they found
(10:53):
at that time. If you looked at the high school
video and the successful major league player, that swing looked
pretty much the same. It's difficult. Now you could give
different philosophies, thoughts, adaptations, methods to help, like accounts. I'm
a big believer in the teaching the mental side of
hitting once the physical side is in order, once you're
(11:14):
comfortable with what this guy's doing mechanically, physically and his ability.
To me, it was always about predicated on can he
get to an averaged above average velocity fastball on time?
That was the thing I wanted my hitters to be
able to do with their swing. You had to be
maximum shortness behind them with length out front. I called
it maximum shortness. Barry Bond's premier example of maximum shortness.
(11:36):
So you get guys that are able to do that
give them solid foundation. But as the seasons in progress,
I always believe that the sliding scale percentage of instruction
had a slide from physical, mechanical to mental by the
time the season is well into progress. July August, September,
(11:56):
My god, if you're still talking of physical mechanical information.
That's tough and that's difficult. But if you're still there
fine tuning what he's thinking, giving you know, a clear thought,
one thought, not multiple thoughts, really able to reduce when
he walks up to the plate. What is the process
that's going to help him get into that little rocking
(12:18):
chair and see the ball big, slow everything down and
process what he sees. That's the essence of coaching to me.
So that's I don't know exactly I know what was
going on before I left. I mean all I mean
magnitude of meetings was unbelievable. Meetings and information within meetings.
It's you know, if you're from if you're working from academia,
(12:39):
you always want that, but you're able to process that
in a slow moment. You're not on a field with
forty thousand people and you're constantly having to make adjustments
based on what you're seeing in front of your eyeballs.
There's no time to reflect on what was talked about
before the game began. That's where you have to be
able to be nimble and thinking the moment. So that
was my process as a hitting coach, adapt to the
(13:02):
student student be able to say this same thing in
other words of different people. And when it came down
to thoughts, more mental mechanics during the season in progress,
less physical early in the season. I'm good with more
physical thoughts. As we get comfortable, let's work with the
mind a lot more often.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
All right. That brings me to the New York Yankees.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I want to get your take on the Yankees, because
this is a mind blowing stat for me. If you
look at teams record against winning teams, and I realized
this can change. But right now we're a third of
the way through this season. The team with the worst
record against winning teams not a surprise, Colorado Rockies. They're
nine to twenty seven. Now we're going by winning percentage here.
(13:46):
The next worst winning percentage against winning teams belongs to
the New York Yankees. Yeah, the Yankees against winning teams
are three and eight. Three wins against winning teams last year.
It could just be an anomaly. Obviously, the American League
is there's not that many winning teams. But the Yankees. Listen,
(14:08):
they're in great shape. They're one of the top five
offensive teams in baseball. But Joe, they also are underwater
in terms of what the average is at five positions
in their lineup catcher, second base, shortstop, third base, center field.
And now Aaron Judge is going to see a specialist
to see what's going on with Like this area is
(14:32):
upper right rib, near the shoulder. He's felt this bruising
there for the last couple of weeks. It got to
the point where they had to sit him down rest it,
and now he has to see a specialist to see
what the heck is going on there. You know, anytime
you have to go see a specialist unable to play,
it's Aaron Judge. It's just not good news. They're hoping
(14:56):
for really good news that it's nothing serious. But obviously
that's I mean, is there a more important player to
his team than Aaron Judge.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
So it's hard for me to make sense of the
Yankees right now.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Joe, Yeah, on talent, on talent, they have upper echelon talent.
We know that the record is fine. You don't worry
about them, you know, a winning record in April and May.
But how do you explain the Yankees to me where
they're at here and the way they measure up against
really good teams?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Well, like you're saying I mean, if you look at standings,
there's mediocrity is the standard. I mean, five hundred or
less is the majority in both sides, National and American League.
So it's almost like the aspiration right now is to
become five hundred and then hopefully, like we've talked about this,
we're still good, we're still close by the end of
the year trade deadline, we're going to go for it.
(15:44):
Otherwise we're just going to retreat. It's almost like it's
a plan. When it comes down to playing winning teams,
they know. I mean, the point is the teams know,
like the poor teams know they're playing a good team
and you know, you might pull one off once in
a while, but they know they're not as good, and
it's just the different vibe. And the good teams know
(16:07):
they know, they know they're good and they're able to
like pull out games late. It might be a bad start,
but we you know, we're better than these guys. We're
going to figure it out, and you just you just
rise to the occasion. Those are really good terms, but
it's true. It's like a felt thing as much as
it is you know, actual and you can measure it.
So all these the Yankees specifically, Yeah, listen without judge,
(16:30):
it's a different ball club completely, not even kinda And
I know that you know there is talent on that team,
but I don't think it's oppressive. I just think the
fact that the Red Sox have been down, the Blue
jayser is kind of coming back a little bit right now.
Baltimore is struggling a bit trying to come back. Also,
that division itself has been less than right now. The
(16:50):
NL Central is the old AL East, where the last
team I think the Reds are two games over five hundred,
which is the anomaly right now. So I think the
fact that the league in general, the teams aren't as
good and it comes down to record and consistent performance,
and you know, it just depends on your schedule at
the time of the year, whatever who you're playing, if
(17:11):
you just get the right break. The other day, the
Guardians beat up on the Yankees pretty good, and then the
Yankees normally beat up the Guardians slash Indians really well.
They've done that for years, So I look at that
as kind of a litmus test or benchmark. If the
Indians start beating up on the Yankees and if the Twins,
you know they're teetering a little. If the Twins start
beating the Yankees with any kind of regularity or become
(17:31):
on equal ground, that to me would be a symbolic
because those are the two. When he got to the Central,
the Yankees always dominated that. So right now it's almost
like the East is the Central and they've had a
good time. I don't even know what the records are
within the division. I just know the teams are down.
But Guardians beating the Yankees to me is significant. Now.
The next test would be when they play Minnesota. If
(17:52):
the Twins could do the same thing.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Joe, I want to dive into a little more of
an offense in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I've got a pet peeve. Do you have any pet peeves?
Speaker 3 (18:00):
By the way, Yeah? Redundancy, redundancy, redundancy. That drives me nuts.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Redundancy redundancy for me, Uh, it's the three and oh
count In this day and age, when it's so hard
to get a hit, Why are guys statue taking three
and oh?
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I want to dive into this with Joe right after this.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
All right, Joe, it's tough to hit in the world today.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
We understand that. By the way.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Speaking of being tough to hit, did you see Camillo
Davall throwing one hundred and three mile an hour sinkers.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
For the New York Yankees?
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Yeah? I did. How do they hit it? I saw
the ball going on the right field line.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
It movement.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Holy smokes, I know, I don't get it. The world
has changed, man, I just looked at this Joe. Through
the month of May, there were more pitchers in the
minor leagues who hit one hundred miles an hour than
there were in the major leagues last year.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Wrap your head around that.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Forty four pitchers in the minor leagues in April and
May hit one hundred miles an hour in the same span.
Last year in the major leagues there were forty three.
I mean, this is just amazing that these hard throwers,
they just keep coming and coming and coming.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
In the major leagues this year, fifty four pitchers hit
one hundred in April or May, fifty four. If you
go back just seven years in that same period, it
was eighteen.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
I mean, you talk about how pitching has changed, so
we all talked also about spin, and there's a lot
more of that in the game. Despite the increase in velocity,
although you're seeing increased velocity and spin. Of course, so
I've always said, Joe, the last true fastball count is
three and oh. Why are guys at taking three and
(20:08):
oh pitches at a sixteen year high. I've seen guys
look at fastballs down the middle, and ninety percent of
pitches in the strike zone at three and oh this year,
ninety percent are fastballs. And I see guys take three
and oh fastball down the middle. The pitcher is now
(20:30):
back into the count, and guess what the next pitch is.
It's not a fastball. You've just looked at the one
pitch that you thought when you left a dugout you
wanted to hit a middle middle fastball.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Why are you.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Standing there taking it at three and oh? It just
drives me crazy, Joe. You explain to me why guys
are taking that pitch, and I realized you don't want
to chase a pitch three and oh. But why you're
not key holing three and oh fastball down the middle?
I don't understand it. It drives me nuts when I
see guys in a statue take mode. They're not even
(21:03):
reading the predetermined take three to zero.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Explain to me please well.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
I had that discussion with Andrew Friedman years ago. I
actually have some notes on it in my old AOL account,
because I not every three to zero count is created equally.
That was my line, and that's that's pretty much what
it comes down to for me. As an example, a
three and zero count leading off in any you know
you're the lete off hitter, your number nine hole hitter.
Here it comes the better part of the bat. I'm okay,
(21:29):
I'm okay with the three to zero take absolutely. What
I like to push the three to zero is especially
with two outs and nobody on I want doubles or better.
Anytime there's runners in scoring position, or if you're a
power hitter, go for it. Man. I just think it's
you have to evaluate the three zero count itself and
how it applies to the game in the moment at
(21:49):
that time. And so that's where I would begin with
the number two. It's personal sometimes and sometimes it's organizational.
Some guys just don't want to do it. They just feel,
I mean, word it out. They probably had a couple
bad three zero counts, so they thought it was right
down the middle. They popped it up, they swung and
missed whatever. So there's some guys that I just think
have been burned. Maybe they try to do too much
(22:10):
and they don't they get overamped, they just don't like it.
It's personal with them. But then there's organizational and I
know that too for a fact, where you give a
guy greenie on a green light on a three y
oho count and he does he hits a week round ball,
pops it up, whatever, and then you're gonna get to
have a conversation after the game because of the outcome
buy situation. So not all three zero counts are created equally,
(22:35):
and that comes. That comes from the time of the game,
where you're hitting, in the lineup, and who you are.
So those are the kind of things that I would
even delve into more deeply regarding that. And when it
comes to hundred miles an hour, I get it, that's
pretty heavy. The thing about I'm curious about is the
one hundred mile an hour guys, longevity and success. You
(22:57):
throw one hundred miles an hour, does that make you successful?
Successful for a period of time? Exactly? How does it
lead to long and rolled this Chapman, it's probably the
poster child for being able to do that. Maybe going
back to the day Nolan Ryan were but you know,
rolled us more recently as a relief pitcher. So there's
there's that that number that's beautiful, and you're talked about
(23:18):
the cell getting hit one hundred and three more hour sinker,
the balls hit softly lined, drive down the right field line.
So does it always equate the success in longevity, which
is what I would want out of my any any
guy that I considered a major league prospect as a pitcher.
And then not all three and zero counts are created equally,
and I think that requires more depth, in depth analysis
(23:39):
to really understand when is a good time to go
or not such a good time to go on three and.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Oh, well, I understand your point. It's very well taken.
It is situational three zero counts.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
You mentioned leading off runners on base man, you be
swinging the bat first and second. You know no reason
to take in that situation to give a picture or
a free strike, especially a fastball. Overall, and again I'm
not ignoring the fact that this is situational. When hitters
swinging a three and zero count, they hit three thirty three.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
This slugging percentage is eight hundred.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I just think with those numbers, Joe, you can't be
a hitter who automatically takes three and oh.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Nick Kurtz is a great hitter, great power hitter. He's
never swung into three zero count in his major league career.
I don't get that.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Fifty nine three OH pitches auto take all of them.
Cal Rally hasn't swung at three OH pitches the last
couple of years. Guys like Pete Armstrong Stephen Kwan has
never swung at one hundred and twenty nine three OH pitches.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
He's not going to hit a home run on three
and oh, so he doesn't mind hitting with two strikes.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
I get a hitter like that.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Brandon Laue's only swung on one of seventy three OH
pitches the last two years.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
It's just hard. I mean, looking at the numbers here.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Fastballs down the middle on three to zero, okay.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
This year, eighty eight percent of those have been taken. Fastballs.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I'm not talking about all three zero pitches. I'm talking
about fastballs in middle middle. Eighty eight percent of those
are taken. I just think I'd like to see more
hitters keyhole something. And again, I'm not ignoring the situational thing.
But I think you hit touched on something and it
reminds me of the ABS challenges Joe, and.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
You brought this up as well.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
If a guy is wrong in an ABS challenge like
it may put them in a passive aggressive mode then
where they don't want to be wrong. And I think
that's the issue with three and oh. I think guys
don't want to pop up three and oh so to
avoid whether it's the embarrassment or the conversation that's coming
later on that you just popped out on the three
and O pitch and let a pitcher off a hook,
(25:55):
don't swing. That's the solution to that. You won't have
that issue to deal with. So I think that comes
into play as well.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
You're talking about Kurtz, I mean, was this streak broken
getting on base? Was that broken?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:08):
It was like almost like almost that fifty gear.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
It does lead the world on base percentage the guys.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
I just so that's part of it.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, it was a great hitter.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
I like watching him a lot. Yeah, just the obp
on bas has really been burned into brains young hitters.
That wasn't so much the thing coming up. I do
know this when I was a hitting coach in the eighties,
and I have written down to prove it. I was
really big on that. I was always big on balancing
walks to strikeouts. Among my normal hitters, the guys with
(26:39):
some pop I think it could be more tolerant with
strikeouts over walks. But those that were not you know,
real pop guys, power guys, I preferred something even steven
and a really an elite kind of table setter needed
to be better than I preferred walksover strikeouts. This is
I would talk to my hitters, like we're talking about
the mental side of hitting. I would talk to my
(26:59):
hitters based on that kind of thought process as I
was hitting coach back in the eighties. And then the
other thing I think would be kind of interesting what
happens after the three and ozer take. It's like, you know,
is the conclusion good after that, regarding whether it's slugging
percentage or run scored or any continued however you want
(27:19):
to evaluate that. That'd be kind of interesting to me,
also because I know it's just it's normally was brought up.
Not normally, it was brought up when I because I
was big on the green light as a as a manager,
just for the reasons you're talking about, And I would
more specifically like the the like again the table setters.
I would make sure the conversationally they didn't even have
(27:41):
to look for the take sign on the swings and
they know they're just trying to get on base, nobody out,
et cetera. But as the inn he got deeper and
was action going on, and who's hitting, who's on deck,
who's in the hole, who's the pitcher? What do you
who do you think's got the better opportunity to do
something against this guy right now? That's that always weighed
into it also, so and then this guy command wise,
(28:03):
is what is this man like? Has he just been
off a bit? Is he you know? I are we
going to help him out by swinging in this situation
when he's really having a hard time finding the plate? Again,
that's those are the things I think about when when
the topic comes up, because I'm really as a hitting coach,
I mean, you weigh all that stuff heavily. I didn't
have the statistical information to back it up. As a
(28:23):
hitting coach, we didn't have all that back then. Was
just more observational, but that's that's what I took forward,
and these are the kind of conversations I would have
with the hitter specifically and with the hitting coaches also.
But last point, a lot of this is generated organizationally,
the three to zero takes. So you just have to
the group that you're with, how analytically motivated are they
(28:47):
and driven, and you would probably find more three zero
takes in that group than the group that is not.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
It's just weird to me that if you're we're looking
at hits per game at a fifty seven year low, yep,
and in the last five years the percentage of three
to zero swings has plummeted.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
It's inverse to what you would expect.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
There's fewer hits available in the game, pitching is better
than ever, and there's more statue takes at three.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
And oh on the one time you actually can.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Get a fastball in the middle of the plate. I
just think the mindset has to change. I'll give you
a good story, Joe, something that you and me and
nobody has seen since we've started tracking pitches and counts.
This goes back to two thousand and eight. How about
swinging three and oh getting a slider and hitting at
four hundred.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
And forty eight feet.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
It had never been done before, but it was done
by the guy who is the best hitter in baseball
this year, and that's your Don Alvarez.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
This happened about a week two weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
How about that, Joe three to zero getting a slider
and hitting at four hundred and forty eight feet to.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
The batter's eye, off the batter's eye at center field.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
I mean, even as teammates where just in awe about that.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
This is what jereedby Paina's teammates said.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Who swings at a three to zero sweeper and hits
at one hundred and ten to the batter's eye. That
goes to show that he's two steps ahead. He knew
they weren't going to challenge him with something hard, so
it's soft and he doesn't miss. I gotta tell you, Joe,
watching this guy hit, it does seem like Manny Ramirez
is where he's ahead of everybody, never of balance. And
(30:31):
all due respect to shohe Otani and Aaron Judge and
whoever else you want to bring up right now, I'm
just talking about right now here in June and twenty
twenty six your Don Alvarez is the best hitter in baseball.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Well, when I was still at the Angels, which miss
as a manager, that was like twenty twenty to twenty
twenty two almost I was sitting on the bench for
playing in Houston. I think Trotty was sitting next to me,
and they said, this guy's one of the top five
hitters in baseball Alvarez. So what you're you're describing right there,
somebody that was looking for it. We just talked about that.
I mean, it's the metal side, the mental ma Cannis
(31:04):
as opposed to the physical mechanics. He wasn't up there
on a three and zero account, like wearing where his feet,
where his head was, whereas you know, is my shoulder
in the right position. He was. He was up there
beating the guy mentally. So he was looking for it.
He didn't miss it. Miguel tee hot to hot, his
same kind of dude to hot. It was so good
in situations they just hunt breaking ball. They'll they'll look
in the situation You're not gonna throw me a fastball
(31:26):
right here, I'm gonna hunt something soft and that, Like
you said, the secret is when you get it to
swing at it and hit it hard and keep it fair.
That's the trick to the whole thing, and that's what
an Alvarez could do. Miguel to Hotta was able to
do it. And again I missing Hispanic hitters, man, I
mean a lot of these dudes, they don't They don't
rely on the mechanical nature of the game as much
(31:49):
as the field nature of the game. And I still believe, man,
when they're coming up as kids, they played so often
and it's such a playground kind of a situation, and
it's so influenced not just by coaches, but parents and
uncles and aunts and moms and everything I listen. I
believe they guys like Alvarez have been talking about this
since he was ten. He's he's heard this kind of stuff.
(32:10):
So that does not surprise me in the least. It
makes all the sense in the world. And it really
comes down to really good hitters, unlike you know, like
the poor hitters like me, you'd see your pitch, you'd
get a good swing, and you'd foul it off even
with straight back or over the first base, dugout, whatever.
But they're really good guys. When they see their pitch,
they attack it and they hit it hard and they
(32:31):
keep it fair. It's not going to be hit all
the time. To me, the right way to look at
is hit it hard and keep it fair.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Jordan Alverarez is hitting three to zero one and slugging
six thirty four in this day and age. He leads
the American League with twenty home runs. He's one of
the best, if not the best left on left hitters
that I've ever seen. It's right and if you look
at the numbers left on left, it's certainly historically good.
(32:57):
I'm not saying he's the best ever, but he's among
that group where lefties just don't bother him and talking
about not just putting in play. His slugging is the
same right and left.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
The Astros.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Listen, you're gonna hear a lot of talk Joe about
the Astros putting him on the market if they think
they're out of it, and they're certainly trending that way.
But you don't trade a guy like that. I don't
see that. I mean, he's a generational talent. It's just
a fascinating story too, about how they got him. He
was actually signed originally by the Dodgers and the Astros
(33:35):
had tried to sign him as an international free agent.
They missed out on him. The scout kept persisting, we
need to get this guy. He had played I think
just like in a Arizona Complex league or something with
the Dodgers. Really shortly after they signed and the Astros
called are the Dodgers called looking for Josh Fields, right
(33:56):
handed setup pitcher for the Pennant Race, and the astro said, okay,
but we wanted to talk about Alvarez.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Rodgers thought they were talking.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
About an international young picture they had signed and given
a huge signing bonus to UH, and the asher said, no, no, no,
not that Alvarez, the left handed hitter Alvarez, And the
Dodgers said, oh, oh, we can do that. We won't
do the picture, but we'll give you your dot Alvarez. I
mean credit to the scout for staying on the guy,
you know, after seeing him in a tryout. It's just
(34:27):
amazing that the Dodgers once had O'Neil Cruz and you're
don Alvarez traded him both for essentially nothing.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
They do a lot of things well, but like any team,
they're gonna have times where they miss. But give the
astros and that scout credit because they get themselves an
all time great hitter.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Eyeballs, eyeballs, boots on the ground. I mean, that's that scouting,
they said I when it comes down to scouting, I'm
just it's near and dear to my heart did it.
I was taught by the best, uh nurtured by the best,
and I still believe to this day a lot of
(35:05):
whatever success I've had in the game, most of it
is attributable to the fact that I was able to
be a scout first. Larry Hyms gave me that opportunity.
And when you're able to see the game from a
scout's eyes, you are because it's all about talent. It's
all acquisition of talent and then recognizing talent before it
(35:25):
becomes talent. I mean, it's so easy to say Alvarez
is really good now, right, But the dude that saw
that before he was good, before he became going down Alvarez,
that's the guy that's that's that's the lifeblood of an organization.
That is that should be that that's that's what flows
through your veins, your arteries, whatever is the ability of
your scouts, the ability to acquire talent your methods to
(35:49):
do that to me still, and then then then it
should be development and then of course the final product
on the field, and then you have to interject your
acquisitional process when it comes to free agency and trades,
et cetera. But that's still a big part of scouting,
and a lot of it is today's relying upon more
numerical data, video, this kind of stuff as opposed to
(36:12):
you know, boots on the ground, guys watching, or like
loafers on the ground, whatever the scouts are wearing these days.
I mean, that's the difference. And so when you when
I hear stuff like that, that just reinforces why and
you talk about the rays, I don't know. I'd love
to know, I should know, but I don't the actual
scouting depth in each organization and how it pertains to
(36:34):
where they're at in the standings and their sustainability on
an annual basis, how will they do and how much
do we rely upon real scouts and in combination with
actual data and information. I just have a hard time
believing that that if it has gone out of vogue,
it's it should possibly come back. You hear stories like this,
but that to me was the most invaluable thing as
(36:56):
I've had like David Ross', d Rockebaldelli and others that
have jumped right into the managerial fray just from playing
right into the seat Aaron Boone, although he did broadcasting.
But I've always advised all these guys, before you do that,
just ask somebody if you can scout for them at
least for one year, hopefully to free agent scouting kids,
(37:20):
and then ask them if you could manage the rookie
ball club. To me, if you want to be a
good major league manager, really successful and understand it well,
I would really that would be the training ground for me.
The proving ground would be that here's a territory, give
you two years to do the territory. I want you
to manage a rookie ball maybe a ball, but definitely
rookie ball because that challenges you on every level. Ride
(37:43):
to bust, be with the kids, see when they stink,
and see what talent looks like before it becomes talent.
To me, that is the best training ground in order
to develop coaches and managers.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
We're talking about human capital, and which is perfect Joe,
because that's a great transition to what I wanted to
talk to you about, and that is artificial intelligence. You
got to hear about this. I'll tell you about AI.
Get Joe's take on it right after this on the
Book of Joe.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. Hey Joe.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Have you heard about something called the Google effect? It basically,
you know, once search engines became, you know, really popular,
we find out that we're less likely to remember information
because we're outsourcing it, right, So the brain gets worse
at tasks because we're basically outsourcing what the brain did.
(38:54):
Now we've got AI coming along, which is even you know,
even more testing of our brain capacity and our brain muscles,
if you will. There was a writer for the BBC
who decided to test AI because what AI does is
to give you an answer when you search for something,
and you're using some of these models here, Basically they're
(39:17):
going to scour all the information that's been they've acquired
talking about AI as of the day, But when it
doesn't have that information built in, it will scour the
internet for the answer.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
So what happens sometimes.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Will scour blog posts, stories that aren't necessarily true and
spit back an answer, which obviously if the information's not legit.
The answer is not gonna be legit, and you don't
know that as someone using AI. So this writer for
BBC decided to write a blog post about how he
was a world champion hot dog eater. He want some
(39:55):
competition in South Dakota, and when somebody googled something about
the world's greatest hot dog eater.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
This dude's name came up.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
I'm saying AI because this is what AI does, and
a lot of people don't understand that. You know, they're
being tricked essentially, that the information they're getting is not
legitimate a lot of times. So we're finding out here, Joe,
is that people's brains are working a lot less and
it's the same as muscles.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
If you don't use it, you're going to lose it.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Einstein, I think for sure it was Einstein. If it's
written down, I don't have to memorize it. I remember
reading that specifically. But if we're going to rely on
this narrative or this information that it's oh yeah, what
I was going to say, is Michael Scott. If it's
in Wikipedia, it must be true. That was his line
in the office, right, So it's no different if it's
(40:48):
in AI, it must be true, Einstein had once. I
read it once somewhere. If it's written down, why do
I have to memorize it? But all of this diminishes
your ability to grow, evolve, develop whatever, and whatever capacity
we have for wisdom or an aid intelligence has gone
away because if you're always relying on outsourcing things and
(41:12):
you never really have to apply yourself. Why And that's
that's like with with my coaching staffs. I used to
talk to them about the facts, specifically that I want
to empower my coaching staff. If you don't empower your
coaching staff and they feel like they're just showing up
what they have to say, doesn't matter. You're gonna tell
me what to do anyway, which was the case in
(41:32):
a lot of situations. Why think? Why think for myself?
Why put myself through this torture of always going through
these mental iterations to try to come out with something
that's gonna be useful for the team. If nobody's listen
to me anyway, And that's pretty much what it's going
to come down to. It's faux and when you could
really augment it with faux information AI, that's really becomes
(41:52):
very scary, and it could be very detrimental. Detrimental in
the sense that negative things are written, and then of
course detrimental in the sense that something's positive or written
or implementing it to a thought where somebody totally unqualified
gets a job or a situation that he's not qualified for,
just based on the fact that this research had been
(42:14):
done based on false information. So it's so oh my god.
It's such a wide ranging topic. But for me, I'm
still of the ilk and I want to believe. Yes,
I'll utilize it. For like, I had to fix my
kitchen aid ice maker, right, I don't know how to
do that, So let me ask a couple of questions
(42:36):
and there came the answer. Now it's fixed. I'm trying
to get my simplicity. Two thousand and three four tractor
had a yellow light pop up on it. I need
to fix that somehow. Can I do it myself? Yeah,
that's good stuff. I need help right there, But to
write a turn paper or whatever and tell me to
do my mental work for me something that requires my
(42:59):
own energies, my own experience of my own life experiences,
and feel that's wrong. So there's a difference with all
of this stuff. There's times and it could be absolutely
beneficial and useful. In other times, it's very dangerous because
it turns people into lazy human beings.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Yeah, dangerous is true because two things are happening here.
You know, the hot dog eating thing. It's it's kind
of fun, right, it's not a serious thing. But more seriously,
the biggest businesses in the world have figured this out, sure,
and they're putting wrong information out there that now is
being passed to people who take it as legitimate. I'm
talking about financial institutions, medical supplements. It's a dangerous kind
(43:39):
of world where you know the old line about truth
and advertising, we were moving farther away from that.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
They're able to manipulate.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
What you are finding on an AI search engine and
accepting a fact. So rather than accepting his fact, you're
gonna have to question it at least with some degree of,
if not skepticism, wariness, because.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
I think it's cool.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
We have to start teaching AI literacy and not just
take these things blindly. And the other thing is just again,
your brain is as the more you outsource, the less
you have what they call cognitive friction, where you begin
to think through problems and the creative process starts to
(44:23):
atrophy as well. There is a professor at the Georgetown
University who talked about this and he said, there's plenty
of evidence that if you are not doing as much
of the actual thinking, then your capability to do that
kind of thinking is going to atrophy. I mean, that's
a big warning when you're talking about your brain power.
(44:45):
So we're obviously early stages of this. But you know, again,
to me, it's the idea that don't accept everything at
face value. We're all about convenience in this society, and
we let our guards down in the name of convenience
without questioning sometime, you know, the work that our brains
(45:06):
are doing and we should not make it a mindless process.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Yeah, as kids growing up, we thought there was a
word called truth t R E t H that we
believed in. We believed in truths so many different Whatever
your parents told, your uncles or aunts, your coaches, whatever
they told you, and for the most part I think
there was they were done without bias. That whatever the
words came to us, that this this wisdom that came
(45:32):
towards us, was done in a way that it was
It was with pure intentions. Also always it was never
there was never an alternative reason or method behind the
words givens. So really there was truth. I believed in,
you know, things that I was told, and I believe
them to be true. But now I really believe truth
and bias have become synonymous terms. I believe that they're
(45:53):
the same word. And I believe that people believe that
if they say it often enough. And I think it
was Costanza that said that it could be true, right,
I mean, if you tell a lie often enough and
you believe it, it can be actual, act, real truth.
So it's you have to be discerning on of your
own and when it comes to AI or conversations or
reading the newspaper, watching TV at night, Uh, to just
(46:15):
blindly watch that and you watch all the different ads
with all the political stuff going on right now, To
to watch all that and not have the ability and
your own confidence and your own ability to make up
your own mind and not be swayed by that and
and try to. You have to be able to read
between the bs and get down to understanding and believing
which which you're which you could glean from all this
(46:36):
and and then walk away with that. It's just it's
just too much of that. So yes, I'm a big
believer and understand today's world, truth and bias and become
synonymous terms. And it's up to us to take as
much information in as we possibly can and based on
our experienced wisdom and tuition, life experience is whatever you
(46:57):
want to call it. You have to be able to
uh digest that and then come to your own conclusion
and not be don't permit others to conclude for you, man,
I really wow. That really upsets me. You have to
be strong enough to do to conclude of your own
and I think that's the scary part of something like AI.
(47:20):
And the way the way information is diminated disseminated these
days is that everything's concluded for you when you buy
into it's so easily without really challenging it. And that's
my biggest concern.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Unbiased truth. That used to be redundancy to borrow one
of your pet peeves, So sure, right right, and now
you have to actually use the term like unbiased truth
to separate it from the otherwise, as you mentioned, what
truth is now being synonymous with biased. So I always
rely on this podcast on you to bring us unbiased
(47:57):
truth Joe. So along those lines, what you have for
us in this episode of the Book of Jail.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
Well, I think it fits. I think it fits. My
word today was, you know, I often talk about flexibility,
and so there's two groups, two guys I'm relying on
today started with coach John Wooden, and as a coach
because I'm looking at what's going on in baseball right now.
We talked about teams that are kind of on the
they're in it, and a lot of them are on
(48:25):
the verge of being out of it and have to conclude,
you know, where are we at and how are we
going to try to get this writer? We were going
to try to get it right. But Woulden said flexibility
is the keytest stability, and I like that. So you
have to be flexible in your methods because zig Ziggler said,
be firm on principle, but flexible on method. So when
you talk about flexibility, I'm not talking about you have
(48:48):
to you have to have roots, so something you could
hold on to in a high wind. I think Jim
Rockford said that somebody like Jim Rockford is a great
television performer, But be firm on principle, but flexible on
method methods have to be flexible. And again you I
think part of the five hundred world is that there's
(49:09):
not enough flexibility. There's it's they become dogmatic. This is
what we are is there's there's there's no ability to
sway opinion. If it's if it's being attached from top
to bottom of its attached analytically, the field world has
no place in the analytical world. The experience into intuitive
world has no place in the analytical world. And I
(49:31):
think that's that's the problem. So if you want to
get your batting averages up, if you want you know,
the slug to come back up, if you want pictures
to be able to pitch the third time through the
batting order, it does. Don't go on numbers. Be flexible
in your thoughts and your methods and in regards to
trying to how can we get this done, Because if
(49:51):
we do have our starting pictures more deeply in the games,
we will have to use our bullpens last these hundred
mile an hour arms might last longer, and et cetera,
et cetera. So that's it. I love zig concluded it
really well. Zig Zigler be firm on principle which I
absolutely believe in, but be flexible on method, which I
also believe is accurate.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Did you just go Rockford files on me?
Speaker 3 (50:14):
I did, Jimmy Rockford. The light at the end of
the tunnel is attached to an oncoming train, so be careful.
Oh man, I said that too.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
He could drop in Matt Locke Colombo.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
So that's true.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
They don't make them like that anymore, Joe. Now everybody's
using all the philosophers. Absolutely, I don't know CSI and
all those.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
The kind of lack of scientific approach, the Iman approach,
the detective work was a big thing back in the day.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
The mid century philosopher is Jimmy Rockford, Columbo, et cetera.
Absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
I love it. Hey, we'll see you next time on
the Book of Joe.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
See it, Tommy.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Thanks. The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more potodcast from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Darren, welcome back.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
It's the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci,
and of course Joe Madden.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Hey Joe, Welcome to June. How you doing right?
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I mean it's we talk about it in spring training.
How spring training drags. Oh, it's too long. It's too long.
We got to short enough spring training that before you
notice June and then before you notice September. It's incredible
how the baseball thing works. I felt it all along.
I love the sachet feeling of spring training. Never thought
(00:46):
it was too quick or too short or too long.
Excuse me, that was just right. And then the season
is very long but then becomes short. It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, And you know as well, your vast experience, that
we have played enough games now where there's enough miles
on the odometer.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
You know how this season is going. You've got some trends. Obvious.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Doesn't mean it's gonna stay that way, but I don't
think it's more it's a small sample size anymore. And
that brings me to the New York Yankees. I want
to get your take on the Yankees here. First of all,
let me start with this in terms of offense and
how we judge teams, Joe, the batting average in May
in Major League Baseball was two thirty nine.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
That's the fourth lowest in the live ball area.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
That's going back to nineteen twenty only nineteen sixty eight,
nineteen sixty six. You know how bad offense was back then,
and nineteen seventy two were worse in terms of the
batting average for the season. We know the walks are
highest since two thousand. We've talked about this. Some of
this is ABS related. Slugging percentage is the lowest it's
(01:50):
been since twenty fourteen, and if you're talking about total
bases per team game, the lowest since nineteen ninety two.
So this is a year now, year one of the
ABS system. And there was some thought that the ABS
was going to force pitchers back into the middle of
the zone and those kind of framed strikes if you will,
those balls that are called strikes because the catchers frame
(02:13):
it and pitchers on the edges. Those were not going
to happen apparently with the ABS and was going to
come force pitchers back in the middle of the zone.
I don't see that happening, Joe, I think pitchers are
ruling the day more than ever. I bring this up
because we're going to talk about the Yankees and their offense.
But first of all, give me your sense of where
baseball is right now. You're one of abs as it
(02:34):
relates to offense.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Well, it's interesting. I think I am the right war
is not being skeptic. I just wasn't sure because it's
like everything else. I've been out for a bit, so
you don't get to see it in play. But now
I'm watching it, and I'm just watching them last night
the race game a bit and their catcher for the
Rays challenge of pitch Ladder part of the game, and
he was wrong as a hitter, and then you just
(02:59):
see how everything flips right there and then probably creates
a level of doubt in his own mind the next
time he comes up to the play, whether to challenge
something or not. So there's there's this, there's this little game,
the human game that's rolling in this within the a
BS system. That there's a confidence component to this, being
like very confident or less confident based on success or
(03:20):
failure with challenging this thing. So there's that to be
contended with. Also, then you know it's concerned about umpires,
umpires being proven wrong and how they would react to that,
and would it make them a little bit gun shy,
less demonstrative in what they do. But I don't think so.
I think, you know, umpires always want everything to be
right anyway, so if they're corrected, I do believe that
(03:44):
with part of this it's not spoken about, that makes
them even better is that when they are corrected, they
could then make an adjustment behind a plate. There's something
Ian Happitt spoken about. We had talked about where the
a BA system would be just a little uh earpod
in the Empire's ear and nothing would be changed, but
when he was wrong, he would be told about it.
(04:05):
So I think the empire is being told when they're wrong,
or even when they're right, reinforces their strike zon. So
I think there's a benefit with that. So I think,
almost almost weirdly, it might create more doubt in the
in the player side of the ABA system and more confidence,
and the umpire is part of this. And then having
said all that, pictures, let's just go for the edges.
(04:29):
If I could just nick the edge, I mean just
nick it it's going to be called the strike. And
so I think, and again that's those pictures with control
and commander are able to do that as opposed there's
a lot of rock throwers out there, guys who just
wind up and throw as hard as they possibly can
or attempt to. But then there's also still a level
of pitching available and the guys that do that, there's
(04:51):
benefits there. I mean, if you just really constantly try
to hit the edges and know if I do nick
it with confidence that it's going to be called the strike.
And then you got like you're talking about these batting
average and a seliking percentage, Now what is that mean? Uh?
But then you then I watched the Rays, and I
watched the Brewers and how they move the baseball, and
just so is this is this all gonna indicate a
(05:12):
shift in philosophy flexibility being entertained here where we just
can't analytically we have to like readjust what we what
are analytical vision glasses tell us what to look at.
So there's a lot of there's a lot of little
innuendo and play right here. And that's just my take,
my take on what I'm seeing right now. I think
(05:32):
that the empire can become more confident, the hitter in
the and the catcher can become less confident, and then
now there may be a necessary shift and the way
they're teaching it, because if this continues this way, hopefully
teams that are like I've always talked about have it
all that. They have a little pop, they know how
to move the baseball. They're on the base as well,
they take the extra base, you go first to third,
(05:53):
they stay advanced on balls and a dirt et cetera,
et cetera. That might be coming back and Vogue. We'll see.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, I like your take on that.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I think we're in the process of kind of adjusting,
if you will, to a different world with abs and
I think moving the baseball is certainly I think going
to be, if not already, at.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
More of a premium and put more of an emphasis
on that.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
I'm looking at the bottom five offensive teams in baseball.
This is shocking to me, Joe. The bottom five teams
in terms of runs per game all were contenders at
the start of the season, teams like you thought should contend,
spending a lot of money. Starting at twenty six, it
goes Padres Phillies, Giants, Royals, Tigers, the Tigers the worst
(06:39):
offense in baseball. These are teams built going into the
year to contend. It's just a kind of a different
world offensively.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah. Again, it may be the signal you'd like to use,
a siren call for the ship. We don't know. I
don't know that yet. But I'm watching like the Tigers,
and you know, they got a lot of guys that
really swing up. I mean, they just they like is
it Riley Green? Yes, I mean I know he's been
somewhat successful, but I mean, my god, this is like
almost Adam Kennedy asked, the way he almost swings completely
(07:11):
up at the ball like it's on a tee literally,
you know, Turkles and all these guys have a real
upper kind of path to their swings. And then you
watch like the Rays, even Kamen Arrows, man, I god,
do I love that guy. He's got some kind of ability.
And then you've got Chandler Simpson, who see's I want
more of those? I want I want more of those
(07:32):
in baseball for sure. There's an entertainment value to that.
I mean, Okay, home runs beautiful, everybody digs on and
the chickstick, the long wall, that stuff. But my god,
when you get a guy playing with his hair on
fire and because is able to do different things that
most everybody else cannot do in the league, that's entertainment, man.
So I just really want them to be successful, and
(07:54):
I want those kind of players to be successful because
there is there will be an analytical shift, There's no
question about it, especially if one of these teams just
finishes the whole season up difficult. I know that the
Dodgers are in the way the Yankees and their methodologies
in the way I get all that. However, from an
entertainment perspective, value got the Brewers and the Race are
two of my favorite teams to watch.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I like your point about the Tigers too, Joe, because
I think we saw this with pitching, where for a
while there the rage was everybody was trying to foreseeing
the fastball with high spin the top of the zone,
get the high vert get your hand behind the baseball.
We've learned a lot more about pitching that based on
the way your body works, essentially and how your wrist
(08:36):
and elbow rotate. Basically, you can drop pitchers in the
two buckets. Pronators and Supernators, and the Supernators had a
hard time getting their hand behind the baseball to throw
those high four seam fastballs, and it actually did cause
a lot of injuries. And I think now the pitching
world is really adapted to kind of fit. It's almost like,
you know, bespoke suit. You fit a pitcher to his
(08:59):
arsenal based the way his body wants to work. And
I think the same thing is going to happen offensively
that there's a lot of teams that do have I
don't know, I just say launch angle, but an emphasis
on pole side ball in the air right, And you know, Joe,
when you do that, you're going to have more swing
and miss right. So I don't think that's a formulation. Yeah,
(09:21):
it's great to hit the ball in the air to
the pole side. We all love power. It changes games.
We've talked about this in the postseason. It wins championships.
But you can't build a lineup entirely of those guys.
So I think kind of a bespoke way of hitting
is going to have to be in vogue here like
it isn't pitching. And maybe the Brewers and the Jas
(09:42):
and the Rais, these teams you mentioned are a little
bit of ahead in that regard.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yes, as a hitting coach for years, I always wanted
to adapt to the student, and you always have to
be prepared to say the same thing to different players.
In other words, so you're trying to get the same
concept across, but it doesn't make sense to everybody. So
you have to be verbally nimble in regards to getting
your point across. And again, there's nothing more important to
(10:08):
me than to be able to adapt to what your
students able to do or not do. When you try
to force methods on body types and the way the
body's been working since the shoot, since they've been in
literally maybe I mean the way the body works, it's hard.
It's hard to change those patterns. They've been doing it
for so many years. My concern was always about the
potential for injury, especially when it came to throwing when
(10:30):
you wanted to change that psych quote unquote an armstroke,
if you want to change a hitting stroke. I still
believe and I remember Gary Sutherland, a great scout who
passed away not long ago, was part of the Major
League Scouting Bureau. They had they videotaped a lot of
guys when they came out of high school and then
they became major league baseball players, and what they found
(10:53):
at that time. If you looked at the high school
video and the successful major league player, that swing looked
pretty much the same. It's difficult. Now you could give
different philosophies, thoughts, adaptations, methods to help, like accounts. I'm
a big believer in the teaching the mental side of
hitting once the physical side is in order, once you're
(11:14):
comfortable with what this guy's doing mechanically, physically and his ability.
To me, it was always about predicated on can he
get to an averaged above average velocity fastball on time?
That was the thing I wanted my hitters to be
able to do with their swing. You had to be
maximum shortness behind them with length out front. I called
it maximum shortness. Barry Bond's premier example of maximum shortness.
(11:36):
So you get guys that are able to do that
give them solid foundation. But as the seasons in progress,
I always believe that the sliding scale percentage of instruction
had a slide from physical, mechanical to mental by the
time the season is well into progress. July August, September,
(11:56):
My god, if you're still talking of physical mechanical information.
That's tough and that's difficult. But if you're still there
fine tuning what he's thinking, giving you know, a clear thought,
one thought, not multiple thoughts, really able to reduce when
he walks up to the plate. What is the process
that's going to help him get into that little rocking
(12:18):
chair and see the ball big, slow everything down and
process what he sees. That's the essence of coaching to me.
So that's I don't know exactly I know what was
going on before I left. I mean all I mean
magnitude of meetings was unbelievable. Meetings and information within meetings.
It's you know, if you're from if you're working from academia,
(12:39):
you always want that, but you're able to process that
in a slow moment. You're not on a field with
forty thousand people and you're constantly having to make adjustments
based on what you're seeing in front of your eyeballs.
There's no time to reflect on what was talked about
before the game began. That's where you have to be
able to be nimble and thinking the moment. So that
was my process as a hitting coach, adapt to the
(13:02):
student student be able to say this same thing in
other words of different people. And when it came down
to thoughts, more mental mechanics during the season in progress,
less physical early in the season. I'm good with more
physical thoughts. As we get comfortable, let's work with the
mind a lot more often.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
All right. That brings me to the New York Yankees.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I want to get your take on the Yankees, because
this is a mind blowing stat for me. If you
look at teams record against winning teams, and I realized
this can change. But right now we're a third of
the way through this season. The team with the worst
record against winning teams not a surprise, Colorado Rockies. They're
nine to twenty seven. Now we're going by winning percentage here.
(13:46):
The next worst winning percentage against winning teams belongs to
the New York Yankees. Yeah, the Yankees against winning teams
are three and eight. Three wins against winning teams last year.
It could just be an anomaly. Obviously, the American League
is there's not that many winning teams. But the Yankees. Listen,
(14:08):
they're in great shape. They're one of the top five
offensive teams in baseball. But Joe, they also are underwater
in terms of what the average is at five positions
in their lineup catcher, second base, shortstop, third base, center field.
And now Aaron Judge is going to see a specialist
to see what's going on with Like this area is
(14:32):
upper right rib, near the shoulder. He's felt this bruising
there for the last couple of weeks. It got to
the point where they had to sit him down rest it,
and now he has to see a specialist to see
what the heck is going on there. You know, anytime
you have to go see a specialist unable to play,
it's Aaron Judge. It's just not good news. They're hoping
(14:56):
for really good news that it's nothing serious. But obviously
that's I mean, is there a more important player to
his team than Aaron Judge.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
So it's hard for me to make sense of the
Yankees right now.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Joe, Yeah, on talent, on talent, they have upper echelon talent.
We know that the record is fine. You don't worry
about them, you know, a winning record in April and May.
But how do you explain the Yankees to me where
they're at here and the way they measure up against
really good teams?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Well, like you're saying I mean, if you look at standings,
there's mediocrity is the standard. I mean, five hundred or
less is the majority in both sides, National and American League.
So it's almost like the aspiration right now is to
become five hundred and then hopefully, like we've talked about this,
we're still good, we're still close by the end of
the year trade deadline, we're going to go for it.
(15:44):
Otherwise we're just going to retreat. It's almost like it's
a plan. When it comes down to playing winning teams,
they know. I mean, the point is the teams know,
like the poor teams know they're playing a good team
and you know, you might pull one off once in
a while, but they know they're not as good, and
it's just the different vibe. And the good teams know
(16:07):
they know, they know they're good and they're able to
like pull out games late. It might be a bad start,
but we you know, we're better than these guys. We're
going to figure it out, and you just you just
rise to the occasion. Those are really good terms, but
it's true. It's like a felt thing as much as
it is you know, actual and you can measure it.
So all these the Yankees specifically, Yeah, listen without judge,
(16:30):
it's a different ball club completely, not even kinda And
I know that you know there is talent on that team,
but I don't think it's oppressive. I just think the
fact that the Red Sox have been down, the Blue
jayser is kind of coming back a little bit right now.
Baltimore is struggling a bit trying to come back. Also,
that division itself has been less than right now. The
(16:50):
NL Central is the old AL East, where the last
team I think the Reds are two games over five hundred,
which is the anomaly right now. So I think the
fact that the league in general, the teams aren't as
good and it comes down to record and consistent performance,
and you know, it just depends on your schedule at
the time of the year, whatever who you're playing, if
(17:11):
you just get the right break. The other day, the
Guardians beat up on the Yankees pretty good, and then the
Yankees normally beat up the Guardians slash Indians really well.
They've done that for years, So I look at that
as kind of a litmus test or benchmark. If the
Indians start beating up on the Yankees and if the Twins,
you know they're teetering a little. If the Twins start
beating the Yankees with any kind of regularity or become
(17:31):
on equal ground, that to me would be a symbolic
because those are the two. When he got to the Central,
the Yankees always dominated that. So right now it's almost
like the East is the Central and they've had a
good time. I don't even know what the records are
within the division. I just know the teams are down.
But Guardians beating the Yankees to me is significant. Now.
The next test would be when they play Minnesota. If
(17:52):
the Twins could do the same thing.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Joe, I want to dive into a little more of
an offense in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I've got a pet peeve. Do you have any pet peeves?
Speaker 3 (18:00):
By the way, Yeah? Redundancy, redundancy, redundancy. That drives me nuts.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Redundancy redundancy for me, Uh, it's the three and oh
count In this day and age, when it's so hard
to get a hit, Why are guys statue taking three
and oh?
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I want to dive into this with Joe right after this.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
All right, Joe, it's tough to hit in the world today.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
We understand that. By the way.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Speaking of being tough to hit, did you see Camillo
Davall throwing one hundred and three mile an hour sinkers.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
For the New York Yankees?
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Yeah? I did. How do they hit it? I saw
the ball going on the right field line.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
It movement.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Holy smokes, I know, I don't get it. The world
has changed, man, I just looked at this Joe. Through
the month of May, there were more pitchers in the
minor leagues who hit one hundred miles an hour than
there were in the major leagues last year.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Wrap your head around that.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Forty four pitchers in the minor leagues in April and
May hit one hundred miles an hour in the same span.
Last year in the major leagues there were forty three.
I mean, this is just amazing that these hard throwers,
they just keep coming and coming and coming.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
In the major leagues this year, fifty four pitchers hit
one hundred in April or May, fifty four. If you
go back just seven years in that same period, it
was eighteen.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
I mean, you talk about how pitching has changed, so
we all talked also about spin, and there's a lot
more of that in the game. Despite the increase in velocity,
although you're seeing increased velocity and spin. Of course, so
I've always said, Joe, the last true fastball count is
three and oh. Why are guys at taking three and
(20:08):
oh pitches at a sixteen year high. I've seen guys
look at fastballs down the middle, and ninety percent of
pitches in the strike zone at three and oh this year,
ninety percent are fastballs. And I see guys take three
and oh fastball down the middle. The pitcher is now
(20:30):
back into the count, and guess what the next pitch is.
It's not a fastball. You've just looked at the one
pitch that you thought when you left a dugout you
wanted to hit a middle middle fastball.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Why are you.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Standing there taking it at three and oh? It just
drives me crazy, Joe. You explain to me why guys
are taking that pitch, and I realized you don't want
to chase a pitch three and oh. But why you're
not key holing three and oh fastball down the middle?
I don't understand it. It drives me nuts when I
see guys in a statue take mode. They're not even
(21:03):
reading the predetermined take three to zero.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Explain to me please well.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
I had that discussion with Andrew Friedman years ago. I
actually have some notes on it in my old AOL account,
because I not every three to zero count is created equally.
That was my line, and that's that's pretty much what
it comes down to for me. As an example, a
three and zero count leading off in any you know
you're the lete off hitter, your number nine hole hitter.
Here it comes the better part of the bat. I'm okay,
(21:29):
I'm okay with the three to zero take absolutely. What
I like to push the three to zero is especially
with two outs and nobody on I want doubles or better.
Anytime there's runners in scoring position, or if you're a
power hitter, go for it. Man. I just think it's
you have to evaluate the three zero count itself and
how it applies to the game in the moment at
(21:49):
that time. And so that's where I would begin with
the number two. It's personal sometimes and sometimes it's organizational.
Some guys just don't want to do it. They just feel,
I mean, word it out. They probably had a couple
bad three zero counts, so they thought it was right
down the middle. They popped it up, they swung and
missed whatever. So there's some guys that I just think
have been burned. Maybe they try to do too much
(22:10):
and they don't they get overamped, they just don't like it.
It's personal with them. But then there's organizational and I
know that too for a fact, where you give a
guy greenie on a green light on a three y
oho count and he does he hits a week round ball,
pops it up, whatever, and then you're gonna get to
have a conversation after the game because of the outcome
buy situation. So not all three zero counts are created equally,
(22:35):
and that comes. That comes from the time of the game,
where you're hitting, in the lineup, and who you are.
So those are the kind of things that I would
even delve into more deeply regarding that. And when it
comes to hundred miles an hour, I get it, that's
pretty heavy. The thing about I'm curious about is the
one hundred mile an hour guys, longevity and success. You
(22:57):
throw one hundred miles an hour, does that make you successful?
Successful for a period of time? Exactly? How does it
lead to long and rolled this Chapman, it's probably the
poster child for being able to do that. Maybe going
back to the day Nolan Ryan were but you know,
rolled us more recently as a relief pitcher. So there's
there's that that number that's beautiful, and you're talked about
(23:18):
the cell getting hit one hundred and three more hour sinker,
the balls hit softly lined, drive down the right field line.
So does it always equate the success in longevity, which
is what I would want out of my any any
guy that I considered a major league prospect as a pitcher.
And then not all three and zero counts are created equally,
and I think that requires more depth, in depth analysis
(23:39):
to really understand when is a good time to go
or not such a good time to go on three and.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Oh, well, I understand your point. It's very well taken.
It is situational three zero counts.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
You mentioned leading off runners on base man, you be
swinging the bat first and second. You know no reason
to take in that situation to give a picture or
a free strike, especially a fastball. Overall, and again I'm
not ignoring the fact that this is situational. When hitters
swinging a three and zero count, they hit three thirty three.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
This slugging percentage is eight hundred.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I just think with those numbers, Joe, you can't be
a hitter who automatically takes three and oh.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Nick Kurtz is a great hitter, great power hitter. He's
never swung into three zero count in his major league career.
I don't get that.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Fifty nine three OH pitches auto take all of them.
Cal Rally hasn't swung at three OH pitches the last
couple of years. Guys like Pete Armstrong Stephen Kwan has
never swung at one hundred and twenty nine three OH pitches.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
He's not going to hit a home run on three
and oh, so he doesn't mind hitting with two strikes.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
I get a hitter like that.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Brandon Laue's only swung on one of seventy three OH
pitches the last two years.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
It's just hard. I mean, looking at the numbers here.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Fastballs down the middle on three to zero, okay.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
This year, eighty eight percent of those have been taken. Fastballs.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I'm not talking about all three zero pitches. I'm talking
about fastballs in middle middle. Eighty eight percent of those
are taken. I just think I'd like to see more
hitters keyhole something. And again, I'm not ignoring the situational thing.
But I think you hit touched on something and it
reminds me of the ABS challenges Joe, and.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
You brought this up as well.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
If a guy is wrong in an ABS challenge like
it may put them in a passive aggressive mode then
where they don't want to be wrong. And I think
that's the issue with three and oh. I think guys
don't want to pop up three and oh so to
avoid whether it's the embarrassment or the conversation that's coming
later on that you just popped out on the three
and O pitch and let a pitcher off a hook,
(25:55):
don't swing. That's the solution to that. You won't have
that issue to deal with. So I think that comes
into play as well.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
You're talking about Kurtz, I mean, was this streak broken
getting on base? Was that broken?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:08):
It was like almost like almost that fifty gear.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
It does lead the world on base percentage the guys.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
I just so that's part of it.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, it was a great hitter.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
I like watching him a lot. Yeah, just the obp
on bas has really been burned into brains young hitters.
That wasn't so much the thing coming up. I do
know this when I was a hitting coach in the eighties,
and I have written down to prove it. I was
really big on that. I was always big on balancing
walks to strikeouts. Among my normal hitters, the guys with
(26:39):
some pop I think it could be more tolerant with
strikeouts over walks. But those that were not you know,
real pop guys, power guys, I preferred something even steven
and a really an elite kind of table setter needed
to be better than I preferred walksover strikeouts. This is
I would talk to my hitters, like we're talking about
the mental side of hitting. I would talk to my
(26:59):
hitters based on that kind of thought process as I
was hitting coach back in the eighties. And then the
other thing I think would be kind of interesting what
happens after the three and ozer take. It's like, you know,
is the conclusion good after that, regarding whether it's slugging
percentage or run scored or any continued however you want
(27:19):
to evaluate that. That'd be kind of interesting to me,
also because I know it's just it's normally was brought up.
Not normally, it was brought up when I because I
was big on the green light as a as a manager,
just for the reasons you're talking about, And I would
more specifically like the the like again the table setters.
I would make sure the conversationally they didn't even have
(27:41):
to look for the take sign on the swings and
they know they're just trying to get on base, nobody out,
et cetera. But as the inn he got deeper and
was action going on, and who's hitting, who's on deck,
who's in the hole, who's the pitcher? What do you
who do you think's got the better opportunity to do
something against this guy right now? That's that always weighed
into it also, so and then this guy command wise,
(28:03):
is what is this man like? Has he just been
off a bit? Is he you know? I are we
going to help him out by swinging in this situation
when he's really having a hard time finding the plate? Again,
that's those are the things I think about when when
the topic comes up, because I'm really as a hitting coach,
I mean, you weigh all that stuff heavily. I didn't
have the statistical information to back it up. As a
(28:23):
hitting coach, we didn't have all that back then. Was
just more observational, but that's that's what I took forward,
and these are the kind of conversations I would have
with the hitter specifically and with the hitting coaches also.
But last point, a lot of this is generated organizationally,
the three to zero takes. So you just have to
the group that you're with, how analytically motivated are they
(28:47):
and driven, and you would probably find more three zero
takes in that group than the group that is not.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
It's just weird to me that if you're we're looking
at hits per game at a fifty seven year low, yep,
and in the last five years the percentage of three
to zero swings has plummeted.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
It's inverse to what you would expect.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
There's fewer hits available in the game, pitching is better
than ever, and there's more statue takes at three.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
And oh on the one time you actually can.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Get a fastball in the middle of the plate. I
just think the mindset has to change. I'll give you
a good story, Joe, something that you and me and
nobody has seen since we've started tracking pitches and counts.
This goes back to two thousand and eight. How about
swinging three and oh getting a slider and hitting at
four hundred.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
And forty eight feet.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
It had never been done before, but it was done
by the guy who is the best hitter in baseball
this year, and that's your Don Alvarez.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
This happened about a week two weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
How about that, Joe three to zero getting a slider
and hitting at four hundred and forty eight feet to.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
The batter's eye, off the batter's eye at center field.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
I mean, even as teammates where just in awe about that.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
This is what jereedby Paina's teammates said.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Who swings at a three to zero sweeper and hits
at one hundred and ten to the batter's eye. That
goes to show that he's two steps ahead. He knew
they weren't going to challenge him with something hard, so
it's soft and he doesn't miss. I gotta tell you, Joe,
watching this guy hit, it does seem like Manny Ramirez
is where he's ahead of everybody, never of balance. And
(30:31):
all due respect to shohe Otani and Aaron Judge and
whoever else you want to bring up right now, I'm
just talking about right now here in June and twenty
twenty six your Don Alvarez is the best hitter in baseball.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Well, when I was still at the Angels, which miss
as a manager, that was like twenty twenty to twenty
twenty two almost I was sitting on the bench for
playing in Houston. I think Trotty was sitting next to me,
and they said, this guy's one of the top five
hitters in baseball Alvarez. So what you're you're describing right there,
somebody that was looking for it. We just talked about that.
I mean, it's the metal side, the mental ma Cannis
(31:04):
as opposed to the physical mechanics. He wasn't up there
on a three and zero account, like wearing where his feet,
where his head was, whereas you know, is my shoulder
in the right position. He was. He was up there
beating the guy mentally. So he was looking for it.
He didn't miss it. Miguel tee hot to hot, his
same kind of dude to hot. It was so good
in situations they just hunt breaking ball. They'll they'll look
in the situation You're not gonna throw me a fastball
(31:26):
right here, I'm gonna hunt something soft and that, Like
you said, the secret is when you get it to
swing at it and hit it hard and keep it fair.
That's the trick to the whole thing, and that's what
an Alvarez could do. Miguel to Hotta was able to
do it. And again I missing Hispanic hitters, man, I
mean a lot of these dudes, they don't They don't
rely on the mechanical nature of the game as much
(31:49):
as the field nature of the game. And I still believe, man,
when they're coming up as kids, they played so often
and it's such a playground kind of a situation, and
it's so influenced not just by coaches, but parents and
uncles and aunts and moms and everything I listen. I
believe they guys like Alvarez have been talking about this
since he was ten. He's he's heard this kind of stuff.
(32:10):
So that does not surprise me in the least. It
makes all the sense in the world. And it really
comes down to really good hitters, unlike you know, like
the poor hitters like me, you'd see your pitch, you'd
get a good swing, and you'd foul it off even
with straight back or over the first base, dugout, whatever.
But they're really good guys. When they see their pitch,
they attack it and they hit it hard and they
(32:31):
keep it fair. It's not going to be hit all
the time. To me, the right way to look at
is hit it hard and keep it fair.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Jordan Alverarez is hitting three to zero one and slugging
six thirty four in this day and age. He leads
the American League with twenty home runs. He's one of
the best, if not the best left on left hitters
that I've ever seen. It's right and if you look
at the numbers left on left, it's certainly historically good.
(32:57):
I'm not saying he's the best ever, but he's among
that group where lefties just don't bother him and talking
about not just putting in play. His slugging is the
same right and left.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
The Astros.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Listen, you're gonna hear a lot of talk Joe about
the Astros putting him on the market if they think
they're out of it, and they're certainly trending that way.
But you don't trade a guy like that. I don't
see that. I mean, he's a generational talent. It's just
a fascinating story too, about how they got him. He
was actually signed originally by the Dodgers and the Astros
(33:35):
had tried to sign him as an international free agent.
They missed out on him. The scout kept persisting, we
need to get this guy. He had played I think
just like in a Arizona Complex league or something with
the Dodgers. Really shortly after they signed and the Astros
called are the Dodgers called looking for Josh Fields, right
(33:56):
handed setup pitcher for the Pennant Race, and the astro said, okay,
but we wanted to talk about Alvarez.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Rodgers thought they were talking.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
About an international young picture they had signed and given
a huge signing bonus to UH, and the asher said, no, no, no,
not that Alvarez, the left handed hitter Alvarez, And the
Dodgers said, oh, oh, we can do that. We won't
do the picture, but we'll give you your dot Alvarez. I
mean credit to the scout for staying on the guy,
you know, after seeing him in a tryout. It's just
(34:27):
amazing that the Dodgers once had O'Neil Cruz and you're
don Alvarez traded him both for essentially nothing.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
They do a lot of things well, but like any team,
they're gonna have times where they miss. But give the
astros and that scout credit because they get themselves an
all time great hitter.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Eyeballs, eyeballs, boots on the ground. I mean, that's that scouting,
they said I when it comes down to scouting, I'm
just it's near and dear to my heart did it.
I was taught by the best, uh nurtured by the best,
and I still believe to this day a lot of
(35:05):
whatever success I've had in the game, most of it
is attributable to the fact that I was able to
be a scout first. Larry Hyms gave me that opportunity.
And when you're able to see the game from a
scout's eyes, you are because it's all about talent. It's
all acquisition of talent and then recognizing talent before it
(35:25):
becomes talent. I mean, it's so easy to say Alvarez
is really good now, right, But the dude that saw
that before he was good, before he became going down Alvarez,
that's the guy that's that's that's the lifeblood of an organization.
That is that should be that that's that's what flows
through your veins, your arteries, whatever is the ability of
your scouts, the ability to acquire talent your methods to
(35:49):
do that to me still, and then then then it
should be development and then of course the final product
on the field, and then you have to interject your
acquisitional process when it comes to free agency and trades,
et cetera. But that's still a big part of scouting,
and a lot of it is today's relying upon more
numerical data, video, this kind of stuff as opposed to
(36:12):
you know, boots on the ground, guys watching, or like
loafers on the ground, whatever the scouts are wearing these days.
I mean, that's the difference. And so when you when
I hear stuff like that, that just reinforces why and
you talk about the rays, I don't know. I'd love
to know, I should know, but I don't the actual
scouting depth in each organization and how it pertains to
(36:34):
where they're at in the standings and their sustainability on
an annual basis, how will they do and how much
do we rely upon real scouts and in combination with
actual data and information. I just have a hard time
believing that that if it has gone out of vogue,
it's it should possibly come back. You hear stories like this,
but that to me was the most invaluable thing as
(36:56):
I've had like David Ross', d Rockebaldelli and others that
have jumped right into the managerial fray just from playing
right into the seat Aaron Boone, although he did broadcasting.
But I've always advised all these guys, before you do that,
just ask somebody if you can scout for them at
least for one year, hopefully to free agent scouting kids,
(37:20):
and then ask them if you could manage the rookie
ball club. To me, if you want to be a
good major league manager, really successful and understand it well,
I would really that would be the training ground for me.
The proving ground would be that here's a territory, give
you two years to do the territory. I want you
to manage a rookie ball maybe a ball, but definitely
rookie ball because that challenges you on every level. Ride
(37:43):
to bust, be with the kids, see when they stink,
and see what talent looks like before it becomes talent.
To me, that is the best training ground in order
to develop coaches and managers.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
We're talking about human capital, and which is perfect Joe,
because that's a great transition to what I wanted to
talk to you about, and that is artificial intelligence. You
got to hear about this. I'll tell you about AI.
Get Joe's take on it right after this on the
Book of Joe.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Welcome back to the Book of Joe. Hey Joe.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Have you heard about something called the Google effect? It basically,
you know, once search engines became, you know, really popular,
we find out that we're less likely to remember information
because we're outsourcing it, right, So the brain gets worse
at tasks because we're basically outsourcing what the brain did.
(38:54):
Now we've got AI coming along, which is even you know,
even more testing of our brain capacity and our brain muscles,
if you will. There was a writer for the BBC
who decided to test AI because what AI does is
to give you an answer when you search for something,
and you're using some of these models here, Basically they're
(39:17):
going to scour all the information that's been they've acquired
talking about AI as of the day, But when it
doesn't have that information built in, it will scour the
internet for the answer.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
So what happens sometimes.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Will scour blog posts, stories that aren't necessarily true and
spit back an answer, which obviously if the information's not legit.
The answer is not gonna be legit, and you don't
know that as someone using AI. So this writer for
BBC decided to write a blog post about how he
was a world champion hot dog eater. He want some
(39:55):
competition in South Dakota, and when somebody googled something about
the world's greatest hot dog eater.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
This dude's name came up.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
I'm saying AI because this is what AI does, and
a lot of people don't understand that. You know, they're
being tricked essentially, that the information they're getting is not
legitimate a lot of times. So we're finding out here, Joe,
is that people's brains are working a lot less and
it's the same as muscles.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
If you don't use it, you're going to lose it.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Einstein, I think for sure it was Einstein. If it's
written down, I don't have to memorize it. I remember
reading that specifically. But if we're going to rely on
this narrative or this information that it's oh yeah, what
I was going to say, is Michael Scott. If it's
in Wikipedia, it must be true. That was his line
in the office, right, So it's no different if it's
(40:48):
in AI, it must be true, Einstein had once. I
read it once somewhere. If it's written down, why do
I have to memorize it? But all of this diminishes
your ability to grow, evolve, develop whatever, and whatever capacity
we have for wisdom or an aid intelligence has gone
away because if you're always relying on outsourcing things and
(41:12):
you never really have to apply yourself. Why And that's
that's like with with my coaching staffs. I used to
talk to them about the facts, specifically that I want
to empower my coaching staff. If you don't empower your
coaching staff and they feel like they're just showing up
what they have to say, doesn't matter. You're gonna tell
me what to do anyway, which was the case in
(41:32):
a lot of situations. Why think? Why think for myself?
Why put myself through this torture of always going through
these mental iterations to try to come out with something
that's gonna be useful for the team. If nobody's listen
to me anyway, And that's pretty much what it's going
to come down to. It's faux and when you could
really augment it with faux information AI, that's really becomes
(41:52):
very scary, and it could be very detrimental. Detrimental in
the sense that negative things are written, and then of
course detrimental in the sense that something's positive or written
or implementing it to a thought where somebody totally unqualified
gets a job or a situation that he's not qualified for,
just based on the fact that this research had been
(42:14):
done based on false information. So it's so oh my god.
It's such a wide ranging topic. But for me, I'm
still of the ilk and I want to believe. Yes,
I'll utilize it. For like, I had to fix my
kitchen aid ice maker, right, I don't know how to
do that, So let me ask a couple of questions
(42:36):
and there came the answer. Now it's fixed. I'm trying
to get my simplicity. Two thousand and three four tractor
had a yellow light pop up on it. I need
to fix that somehow. Can I do it myself? Yeah,
that's good stuff. I need help right there, But to
write a turn paper or whatever and tell me to
do my mental work for me something that requires my
(42:59):
own energies, my own experience of my own life experiences,
and feel that's wrong. So there's a difference with all
of this stuff. There's times and it could be absolutely
beneficial and useful. In other times, it's very dangerous because
it turns people into lazy human beings.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Yeah, dangerous is true because two things are happening here.
You know, the hot dog eating thing. It's it's kind
of fun, right, it's not a serious thing. But more seriously,
the biggest businesses in the world have figured this out, sure,
and they're putting wrong information out there that now is
being passed to people who take it as legitimate. I'm
talking about financial institutions, medical supplements. It's a dangerous kind
(43:39):
of world where you know the old line about truth
and advertising, we were moving farther away from that.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
They're able to manipulate.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
What you are finding on an AI search engine and
accepting a fact. So rather than accepting his fact, you're
gonna have to question it at least with some degree of,
if not skepticism, wariness, because.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
I think it's cool.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
We have to start teaching AI literacy and not just
take these things blindly. And the other thing is just again,
your brain is as the more you outsource, the less
you have what they call cognitive friction, where you begin
to think through problems and the creative process starts to
(44:23):
atrophy as well. There is a professor at the Georgetown
University who talked about this and he said, there's plenty
of evidence that if you are not doing as much
of the actual thinking, then your capability to do that
kind of thinking is going to atrophy. I mean, that's
a big warning when you're talking about your brain power.
(44:45):
So we're obviously early stages of this. But you know, again,
to me, it's the idea that don't accept everything at
face value. We're all about convenience in this society, and
we let our guards down in the name of convenience
without questioning sometime, you know, the work that our brains
(45:06):
are doing and we should not make it a mindless process.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Yeah, as kids growing up, we thought there was a
word called truth t R E t H that we
believed in. We believed in truths so many different Whatever
your parents told, your uncles or aunts, your coaches, whatever
they told you, and for the most part I think
there was they were done without bias. That whatever the
words came to us, that this this wisdom that came
(45:32):
towards us, was done in a way that it was
It was with pure intentions. Also always it was never
there was never an alternative reason or method behind the
words givens. So really there was truth. I believed in,
you know, things that I was told, and I believe
them to be true. But now I really believe truth
and bias have become synonymous terms. I believe that they're
(45:53):
the same word. And I believe that people believe that
if they say it often enough. And I think it
was Costanza that said that it could be true, right,
I mean, if you tell a lie often enough and
you believe it, it can be actual, act, real truth.
So it's you have to be discerning on of your
own and when it comes to AI or conversations or
reading the newspaper, watching TV at night, Uh, to just
(46:15):
blindly watch that and you watch all the different ads
with all the political stuff going on right now, To
to watch all that and not have the ability and
your own confidence and your own ability to make up
your own mind and not be swayed by that and
and try to. You have to be able to read
between the bs and get down to understanding and believing
which which you're which you could glean from all this
(46:36):
and and then walk away with that. It's just it's
just too much of that. So yes, I'm a big
believer and understand today's world, truth and bias and become
synonymous terms. And it's up to us to take as
much information in as we possibly can and based on
our experienced wisdom and tuition, life experience is whatever you
(46:57):
want to call it. You have to be able to
uh digest that and then come to your own conclusion
and not be don't permit others to conclude for you, man,
I really wow. That really upsets me. You have to
be strong enough to do to conclude of your own
and I think that's the scary part of something like AI.
(47:20):
And the way the way information is diminated disseminated these
days is that everything's concluded for you when you buy
into it's so easily without really challenging it. And that's
my biggest concern.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Unbiased truth. That used to be redundancy to borrow one
of your pet peeves, So sure, right right, and now
you have to actually use the term like unbiased truth
to separate it from the otherwise, as you mentioned, what
truth is now being synonymous with biased. So I always
rely on this podcast on you to bring us unbiased
(47:57):
truth Joe. So along those lines, what you have for
us in this episode of the Book of Jail.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
Well, I think it fits. I think it fits. My
word today was, you know, I often talk about flexibility,
and so there's two groups, two guys I'm relying on
today started with coach John Wooden, and as a coach
because I'm looking at what's going on in baseball right now.
We talked about teams that are kind of on the
they're in it, and a lot of them are on
(48:25):
the verge of being out of it and have to conclude,
you know, where are we at and how are we
going to try to get this writer? We were going
to try to get it right. But Woulden said flexibility
is the keytest stability, and I like that. So you
have to be flexible in your methods because zig Ziggler said,
be firm on principle, but flexible on method. So when
you talk about flexibility, I'm not talking about you have
(48:48):
to you have to have roots, so something you could
hold on to in a high wind. I think Jim
Rockford said that somebody like Jim Rockford is a great
television performer, But be firm on principle, but flexible on
method methods have to be flexible. And again you I
think part of the five hundred world is that there's
(49:09):
not enough flexibility. There's it's they become dogmatic. This is
what we are is there's there's there's no ability to
sway opinion. If it's if it's being attached from top
to bottom of its attached analytically, the field world has
no place in the analytical world. The experience into intuitive
world has no place in the analytical world. And I
(49:31):
think that's that's the problem. So if you want to
get your batting averages up, if you want you know,
the slug to come back up, if you want pictures
to be able to pitch the third time through the
batting order, it does. Don't go on numbers. Be flexible
in your thoughts and your methods and in regards to
trying to how can we get this done, Because if
(49:51):
we do have our starting pictures more deeply in the games,
we will have to use our bullpens last these hundred
mile an hour arms might last longer, and et cetera,
et cetera. So that's it. I love zig concluded it
really well. Zig Zigler be firm on principle which I
absolutely believe in, but be flexible on method, which I
also believe is accurate.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Did you just go Rockford files on me?
Speaker 3 (50:14):
I did, Jimmy Rockford. The light at the end of
the tunnel is attached to an oncoming train, so be careful.
Oh man, I said that too.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
He could drop in Matt Locke Colombo.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
So that's true.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
They don't make them like that anymore, Joe. Now everybody's
using all the philosophers. Absolutely, I don't know CSI and
all those.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
The kind of lack of scientific approach, the Iman approach,
the detective work was a big thing back in the day.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
The mid century philosopher is Jimmy Rockford, Columbo, et cetera.
Absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
I love it. Hey, we'll see you next time on
the Book of Joe.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
See it, Tommy.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
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