#621 - Jon B on His Big Break w/ Babyface, Collaborating w/ Tupac, Jay-Z & Nas, New Era of R&B & More

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yo.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
Before we get into the interview, man, I want to
give a shouts to all my radio stations all across
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(00:24):
O two nine. Importantly, we're all over the country, so
you could tap in with that radio show. If you
want to know for on in your city, just go
to Bootleg cav dot com. The fullest of cities is there.
You might hear us. Let's get into the interview, yo,
Bootleg CAV podcast. Man. We got a special guest in here,
a legend all time Caucasian. Okay, Sean b ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Appreciate.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Well, Yo, what's up? I gotta say immediately, I told
my wife that I was interviewing you, and she never
She's thirty eight, I'm thirty eighth, and she never cares
about anybody I interview ever, but she like I was
just I was like, do you want to come? But

(01:14):
do you want to do the fucking interview? She's like,
I love John He's such an attractive man. I'm like, okay,
well let me know that she's not here, but you know, well, thank.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
You very much. I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah. Yeah, Yo, So man, how's everything been? Obviously? Man,
you're you're like I feel like when we think of
like nineties R and B, like you're one of those
names that is just like stood the test of time.
What I know, you just dropped an album in March.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah. Yeah, that's been the latest and greatest.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
You know, it's been touring around for that, you know,
doing mad shows. It's been wonderful to see people come out,
you know, and the shows are sold out, you know,
everywhere I'm going. So it's just it's still showing up
for me. And evidently we celebrating thirty years now, so
it's that's crazy. Yeah, man, it is crazy.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Do you feel like because I feel like right now,
even with like radio and like current music, R and
B is having a new wave because you have like
you'll turn on the radio and your hair like Keilani
Folded or like Mariah Scientists or Leon Thomas. And it
feels like the pendulum is kind of swinging back towards
real R and B and like records as opposed to like,

(02:27):
you know, whatever the fuck's been going on the last
like five or six years, you.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Know, right on, Man, I love that. I love that.
It's been kind of like a watching it grow, you know,
watching it grow, watching it expand I mean we had
to we had to experiment and change it, you know,
and it always morphs into something, you know, else, and
so it was something else for a little while.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
I think, right hip hopping and R and B was.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Sort of fused together for a little sure. And so
now we've kind of gotten back into the R and
B vibes again.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Which with you know, which is like love songs and
breakup song yeah, I mean emotion again. Yeah, okay, to.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
Have like real shit everyone's going through exactly, And so
that's that's okay, you know too, you know, And I
think that the more and more people get in touch
with that side of things, then I think that it
makes the other side make sense as well, because everybody
wants to party to and just have a good time
as well. So you know, it's like you're either in
a relationship or you're not you know, and both are valid.

(03:25):
So I think that it's necessary to have both, you know.
And I've been able to fit into that category of
the relationships.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
And the you know and sort of feeding that.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Energy back then, Man, like, what is the process for
you to get a like, you know, whether it's babyface
or whoever's attention, Because I feel like nowadays someone closed
that door all the way. If we don't, we'll hear
the plane the entire time. But I do feel like nowadays,
like we have like the Internet, so if someone doesn't
cover on Instagram or TikTok i, it's what happened with

(03:57):
Justin Bieber. And however, many years ago that was you know,
like it was a lot easier to be discovered, right.
So what was the process for John B, like a
young kid trying to make it in R and B
in the early nineties, to get a look, to get
a deal?

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Man, Well, I had cassettes and I had CDs, and
I had my demos, which is like, you know, forty
songs on twenty songs a side.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Damn, you had twenty songs. I had forty songs on
a demo.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
On a demo, and I was going around really shopping
as a writer and a producer because at you know,
sixteen seventeen, I was ready. But you know, I waited
till I was about eighteen, you know, I could check
myself legally out of school and go shop my records
down in Hollywood or wherever, you know, And that's exactly
what I did. I just went to these labels. First.

(04:42):
I would make appointments, you know, with the label, to
meet with the NR right at the label, and then
usually it would be this type of thing where I
would show up and then the guy would like cancel
with me on the.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Spot, Yeah, like what are we doing here?

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Like can we re reschedule? And I'm like, oh man.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
You know, like but you're here.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
I got and through the ringer a couple of times,
and then I got kind of got that attitude like no,
I'm not I'm not at you know, I'm not asking
for permission with this. I'm going in like letting them
know who I am. So I would catch him like
going on lunch break, you know, and the lobby and
be like, hey man, remember we're supposed to have that
meeting man I'm trying to be, you know, and uh yeah,

(05:22):
pretty soon I ended up getting in the right door.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
You know.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
The first first person to really turn me down was
actually Randy Jackson from I got into his door, you know,
the Sony door or whatever, and I was able to
audition and you know and sort of play my music,
and he was like, you know, uh, I think you're
more of a producer than a than an artist. You know,
I'm going to pass. And I was like, okay. I

(05:47):
walked out of there like all right, well, it's all right,
we'll see what happens. And I kept shopping and of course,
you know the whole Babyface story and all that. But
the funny thing was is that I ended up being
sign to Sony Epic, and then he ended up working
for some Randy Jackson ended up some working for Sony.
So when he saw that, you know, his like Tommy

(06:09):
Mattola over him, you know, signed me, you know, basically
said of course, yes, you know, and so it was.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
Kind of like, yeah, I told you yeah, when you
got Tommy Mottola.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
I saw Randy the next time. I was like, what's up?

Speaker 2 (06:20):
You passed on me? Did he acknowledge it.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Like, oh yeah, yeah, he kind of like, you know,
all right, man, all right, I was wrong about you.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, that's crazy. Is it wild to think, like, you know,
celebrating thirty years of bona Fide, which is crazy to
think that nineteen ninety five was thirty years ago.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
It is wild.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, And then just being through so many different phases
of like how music has changed. You know, ninety five
some people are still having tape, CDs are getting introduced,
like CDs are becoming the norm, but yeah, you know,
and then the streaming era and the iTunes era and
all that shit. How is it like for you trying
to figure out how to like navigate whatever the twenty

(07:02):
twenty six landscape and music is because it's so much
you know, social media involved.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, that we have more tools now and it's more
interesting now if you ask me.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
I mean, the only times.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Wherever on the on the TV was you know, we
went you know, did the Soul Train, you know, we
did e ET you know, or the show or you know,
you did some sort of like you know, special guests
on MTV or whatever. There was not there wasn't a
visual medium yet like there is now, which is like
everything's visual. Everything's about you know, getting a full, you know,

(07:38):
picture of what's going on and feeling really what's going on.
So I think that transparency being able to to you know,
sort of take back the curtain for all that and
allow that to all happen. It's really a beautiful thing
because that's kind of like what we always wanted. Anyways,
we wanted to make documentaries and movies.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Right but back then, I mean, it's such a harder
thing to do back then, so expensive.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Well we would, we would, we would still do it.
We put the e p ks together, you know, and
talk about the projects or whatever.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
And now we have a phone.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
But now, yeah, now we have a way of doing
that just on the on you know right now. So yeah,
it's it's a beautiful time, I think for that in
terms of just all of the the information that you
get when you buy an album, if you want to
die take a deep dive down a rabbit hole on
a certain artist, Now you can kind of go through
their entire discography pretty quickly on on the you know,

(08:30):
on YouTube. Sure, you know, so you didn't have that
option in the nineties. We had to buy all our
records and take fifteen minutes to open up the CD
because the plastic was wrapped up. Go through the booklet
you've got book yeah exactly, you know, read the lyrics
and all that which that part of it I miss,
you know that that tangible part of it I.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Miss for sure. I think it's coming back, though.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
There's an art in that as far as making you know,
the jackets.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
You know, the violent vinylin CDs are cut like CDs
right now, Like if you're going eBay, you'd be surprised
to see like some CDs are like sounding for like
thirty forty fifty bucks.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
It's crazy, and it's nice to see that. You know
that people are taking, you know, taking the interest in
in vinyl again, particularly because vinyl has such a even
before you know that that was that's a special thing
to be. It's got an anesthetic too, it does. It's
esthetic exactly, is exactly what it is. It's like listening

(09:32):
to something that's been ingrained in something because it's literally
been the needle has been pressed down into the wax. Yeah,
so it's been ingrained.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
And there's something about just the process of like putting
the needle on the record that's it.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
And then yeah, and letting it, letting it, you know,
because it's given out that that music, and it's like,
I don't know the analog, I guess is the best
way to describe it. Because when you're listening to a CD,
you're listening to a digital source, which is.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
It's like perfect.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
Right when you listen to the vinyl, you're hearings little imperfections,
little things that just kind of sing a certain way
and it just makes you feel a certain way. So
I love that about Vinol.

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You also were very active there's this like era where
like these R and B supergroups start to come together.
There's like LSG, which that album is so far. Yeah,

(12:00):
did anyone ever try to get you to do like
a supergroup with them?

Speaker 1 (12:04):
Well, the closest thing that that, I will say, it
was a huge compliment to me, and but I just
I was like, how's that gonna happen with But I
was on a on a flight with Bobby Brown, oh shit,
and uh we were coming home from from a gig together,
and we started talking the whole flight, you know, just

(12:25):
chopping it up. And at the end of the flight,
he was like, man, you want to do a group
of me? Man? And I was like what. He's like, yeah, man,
this is I'm gonna call Johnny right now. Let's do
a group man. And I was like, because Johnny Gill
is like my favorite singer of all time, like right,
you know, one of one of the top, you know,
And uh, that's a good friend of mine as well too.

(12:46):
I worked with him in the past and uh with
new addition or whatever. Yeah, and so yeah, he calls
him up and he's like, yeah, man, that sounds cool
whenever if he's down here. I was just like that
life flash before I could see myself on stage with him,
and I was probably dream like you know that that
sort of came true in a certain way, you know,

(13:08):
but never you know, of course, nothing ever came of it.
But you know, as far as us working in the studio,
we definitely would love to all of us unanimously all said,
we'd love to get in the studio together and cook up.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
You've remixed, You're done your own renditions of like some
very iconic records, whether it's like Michael Jackson or Marvin Gay.
When you approached that, like, first of all, how nervous
are you because you you redid the Michael Jackson remix
while he was alive? Is that right? No?

Speaker 1 (13:39):
The remix?

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yes, the remix, the remix he was alive.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
Yes, I was thinking talking about rock with you.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
No, Yeah, because I redid Rock with You as well,
but that was after that was after his passing. But yeah, no,
getting to work with his voice first of all, just
to hear all of the snaps, and you know, acapellas
weren't too common back then to have an acapella, right,
so I would, But I was given the whole master tracks.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
To two inch reels, especially like pop acappellas, like hip
hop acapellas you get on the viny on you for DJs,
but well, if you.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Get a acapella Michael Jackson's wort, no, that's crazy with
all of his vocals, like all separated, you know, not
just just yeah, it's well back then it was on
the reel, so it's the analog tape. So yeah, I
got my my Michael Jackson tape and listened to all
of the tracks and just kind of went through it.
And they said, you know, just remix it, do whatever
you want with it. But it's such a beautiful song.

(14:32):
I didn't want to sort of ruin it, so I
just kind of grooveed with that. And that was a
fun I remember that was a fun day because you know,
people are passing by, you know, in the other studios
and what you're working on and just remixing Michael Jackson.
You know, it's like what the Door opens is Michael
Jackson's voice.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
It's like Michael Jackson.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
But one thing that was cool was he called he
called the studio and he's like, I love them, I
love what you working on. You know, I heard the
rough and I love I love it.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
I was like, thank you so much, you know, and.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
It's such an honor to do this.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
You guys shared people, is that right.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah? We had the same manager. Yeah, yeah, Jim moriy
and Sandy Gallant Gallan and Maury.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
Uh the name of the firm.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
And yeah that was cool to know that. You know,
he was sort of like a phone call away.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Did you ever meet him?

Speaker 1 (15:25):
We did meet. We met at the brit Awards in
London and backstage and my manager's you know, his manager
brought me back. Yeah, Jim Morian.

Speaker 3 (15:37):
I remember him being.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Like, we're gonna be you know, I don't have time
for this. I don't have time for anything, Jim, Like,
you know, like while I was in the room and
I was like, okay, I'm I'm out, you know, he's like, no, no, no, John,
It's cool. He's just tripping, like Michael, you have plenty
of time. It's like forty five minutes before you go on.
He just wants to get a quick picture. Yeah this

(15:58):
is John B. He remixed you.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Were not alone?

Speaker 1 (16:01):
Oh okay, okay, And then I go over, I'm sorry,
I don't mean damn pose you know, He's just like,
oh no, it's cool.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
It's cool.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
Nice to meet you. I loved what you did. And
I was like, man, nice to meet you, and shook
his hand and we took the picture that that I that.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
I have that I'm so grateful to did he did
he have like an aura?

Speaker 1 (16:18):
He did?

Speaker 3 (16:19):
He did.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
He had this very very much like sensitive, shy, but
at the same time very professional. Let's let's get the show.
Let's get to the show, like I don't have time
for no extra like I'm and when I saw the show,
I understood why why he was so it was like
it's like a Broadway you know, musical what he was doing.

(16:43):
You know, it was having all these different people, So yeah,
there was a lot to coordinate.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
I'm sure you weren't like a big dancer, right, not
at all. Well, that's what I was going to ask you,
because they were It's like during your era, there was
like R and B C.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
But it's like, but that's about it.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
You ever know this, Well.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Did they ever trying to pressure you into learning to
dance like the label? Because that back then.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
You know, the thing was they tried to get me
to work with choreographers.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
But even the choreographers that would work with like.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Lorianne and big up Lorianne, you know, she.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
Worked with me.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
She's just like you just as long as your swag
is right, like you're right, you don't you you don't
have to do the dance thing. And then when I saw,
of course justin Timberlake come out and he was all
about the dancing, I was so glad that I didn't
do that, you know what I mean, because that would
have been unfair. Well, he does what he he does,

(17:37):
you know, and I do what I do, and that's
I dance with my fingers on the keys, you know, sure,
and that's and that's always worked for me.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yeah, it's like it's like because like you know, obviously
my era of R and B, where I was like
in the thick of.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
It was like genuine drew Ill and.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Then you'd see like Usher and it's like these motherfuckers
could get down.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah. Unfortunately I didn't get blessed with the dancing thing.
But at least I can move with on beat on rhythm.
But that guys don't have rhythm, though you definitely have
somebody they got blessed with the rhythm.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
You've definitely broken the stereotype for thirty years. Blessed no,
I just because because back then it felt like labels
treated artists more like like a package. So I wonder
if they were like, hey, you know, it'd be really
nice if you could if.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
You could dance.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
No, No, they never hit me with that.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
What I was really trying to personify was what Babyface
did you know?

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Which was which was which was?

Speaker 1 (18:35):
He was the producer, he was the songwriter and the
singer yep. And you'd hear him on the backgrounds of
all the songs that he produced. So that was very
much like right up the alley or what I wanted
to do, which is hence the reason why I made
it such.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
A point to get to what was it like having
Babyface as like a mentor because he's one of them ones.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Man, yeah, man, just you know, talk about already sort
of feeling somebody, uh, reduction wise, writing wise, relating to
the style, and sort of intuitively kind of you know,
figuring out like how did he get that sound? All right,
I'm gonna find that sound. Even before I met him,
I was, you know, already sort of studying his work
and him and La Reid and the production and how

(19:15):
they were doing it, and I wanted to sort of
be on that team of guys that were producing alongside
Dallas Austin, Keith Andy's and and you know and Darryl Simmons,
uh you know, La Reid and I mean those those
are the guys that helped him, and so to be
a fly on the wall to what he was doing,
whether it was watching him produce Waiting to Exhale, you know,

(19:39):
or Boomerang soundtrack or working with TLC together you know,
Tony Braxton's project, just you know, I started out to
tell you what it was like with working with Kenny.
Kenny say, come to the house man. It's uh, let's
see what's vibe at the house. And he has a
studio at the house and just on some actual you know,

(20:00):
come through. And then he plays me the track for
Someone to.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Love Crazy, and I'm like what this is?

Speaker 1 (20:07):
He's like this for you man, and I was just like,
oh my gosh, you know, like I'm just blown away,
first of all as a fan to hear what his
interpretation of what I'm gonna sound like yeah is because
it just sounded so full and so just everything I
could imagine, you know. And then he's like, all right, man,
let me show you how to sing this first little

(20:29):
bit of the song. And he goes and he sings it.
I said, okay, cool, I got that, So you want
to record it?

Speaker 3 (20:34):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
I go in there and I record it. Then he
goes the second verse and he does the same thing,
but this time he goes in and records it instead
of just singing it for me.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
And he's like, I'm gonna show you how it goes.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
He goes in there and he sings the verse that
you hear now on the record, right, And I go, wait,
I gotta do that.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
Don't just keep you on the song.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
No, No, I didn't say that. I just did. I
didn't know what to say. I was like, oh my god,
he just bodied that right. And then he comes out
he's like he's like, yeah, I think we'll just keep
it like that. I was like, so I got to
sing that, and he's like, no, no, I mean I'm
gonna keep my voice on the song.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
And I was like, you're gonna you can do a
song with me?

Speaker 1 (21:13):
It's at He's like yeah, and I just like just
chills and tears well up and I'm like, you know,
I'm just kind of like, oh my god, thank you
so much, you know, and just.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
At that point I just knew.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
I was like, it's everything is extra.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
For me as a writer and producer. Did you have
your own version of that moment with another up and
coming artist where you like they came through or you're like, hey,
I was thinking to you when I wrote this word.
Did that have any other expen like a version like
of like what Babyface did for you with someone, but
you played the record for somebody that you know what
I mean.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Oh, that's an interesting question. I'm getting to kind of
do that with an artist that I'm currently working with right.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
Now, which is kind of cool. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
She was born in ninety five, the year, but she's
been singing all her life and big up Shaye Universe.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
She she opened up for me on my tour. She's
from England and really dope artists.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
She's got a couple albums out and this new album
that she's working on. I was privileged enough to have
her come to the studio and work with me, and
you know, she just she's so easy to work with
because she's she's a writer herself. So we you know,
I cooked up the track and had some melody ideas
to kind of beat her, and we just kind of
wrote the record every you know, finished each other's sentences,

(22:34):
you know, and so yeah, that's gonna be a great experience.
But you could just tell when someone really appreciates the
opportunity to collaborate, because it's all in what you end
up doing, you know, it's in the song. It's like,
if it's a great song, that means y'all had a
great build and a great vibe and that's what you want.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
You also are like on some legendary movie soundtracks like
Rush Hour, Oh yeah, I mean also some not so
legendary movie soundtracks Shout to Shack.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Really, I'm on that, oh yeah, Sam with everything everything.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
And Shot to Shack. I don't know which Shack movie
was worse, because I think he was another one.

Speaker 3 (23:11):
I had ad jay Z on there. Yeah, and Coco
from s w V.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
That's crazy. Yeah what what what year was the jay Z?
What will years have plenty? How often?

Speaker 1 (23:21):
That was ninety six?

Speaker 2 (23:22):
So this was like Hawaiian Sophie Hove or was this
after reasonable that came after reasonable doubt?

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Okay, this is right after this is Jigga. This is jigga.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Man, this is like the early I mean ninety six
is the your Reasonable Dot come out. So I don't know,
he's very much like.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Jay Z was was really really you know, dead press,
like that whole like the Dead President. Yeah, that whole
I mean, Reasonable Doubt was sort of one of my
favorites of all that time period favor album. That's my
favorite jay Z album. And just to know that we

(23:57):
I got to link with him, you know, he he
First of all, he freestyled a whole song. So when
you listen to that, it was literally one take, it
wasn't I mean, I remember him coming to the studio
and just listening to my track because I made that track,
and it was it was an honor to have him,
you know, vibe into one of my tracks, you know,
especially not you know, not a ballot track, but a

(24:19):
hip hop track, right. And I'm a big Premiere fan,
you know, from Gangstar Premo, you know, and so I
was trying to cook up like a kind of a
Primo style type of beat, right and uh. But then
at the same time, I'm like, I want to collaborate
with Coco from s W. Such a big sw fan,
and her voice is just one of my favorites. So

(24:43):
the fact that I was able to get her to
be on the record was like perfect. But then how
we're going to just step it up? And I was like,
all right, let me get jay Z. You know, we
said if I can get him, and he happened to
be coming by the Edmunds the Edmunds Towers, and he
came in and we we asked him if he'd be
down for Collapo and he said yeah. And then when

(25:03):
he pulled up the studio, he just kind of like
a man of a few words, you know, sat there
and stood there and you know, for an hour and
just play the.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Record just kind of and he's probably putting the whole
all I could.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
I could hear his mind ticking and working, and so
at the end of the session he's like, all right,
I'm gonna come back tomorrow, Lid is that cool book?
Another day? So that's way, you know, I'm at his discretion.
Sure enough, he comes in waste no time, goes straight
to the booth and lays the wrapping.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Was that no pan or paper, no pen or paper?
Was that the first time you seen something like that?

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, that was the first time I had seen that.
I mean, I I can kind of.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Do that with with melodies and all that, and with
melodies and lyrics too, I can freestyle all that.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
But you know, when you're so sort of poised with
what you do and how you do it that there's
no explaining or no talking about I got that, you know,
and then you go in and you cut the record.
That's like exceptional. One take j Nick on one take Jake.
That's what Damon let me know. Because Damon Dash was
there and he was just like, yeah, don't don't worry,

(26:11):
like he's not even gonna write.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
You're not going to ever see him.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Write, sit down and write, so like, yes, you're probably
like what I was like, Oh, okay, that's what's up.
He's like he's gonna come tomorrow, smash it, trusting, and
then after he got done, he's like, I told you man,
I was okay. But that's a real, real hot record.
I love that that songs called keep it.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Real talk to me because you have the you know,
the privilege of working with someone like Jay And then,
by all accounts, a lot of people say you you
were the last guy to record a Park.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Oh I was, yeah, yeah, two weeks before his passing.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Someone else who had an insane work ethic and by
all accounts, like everyone always says, his studio regiment was
just fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
He told me three songs a day, and you ain't
really you ain't really.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
In the mode that I'm in.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
I was like, damn, okay, three songs, that's a lot.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
I wonder, like I want to get to that tession.
But he ends up passing and then one of his
albums that comes out after he dies is are You
Still Down?

Speaker 1 (27:10):
That's what his mom wanted to call it, because there
was the last song that he did. He didn't play
his music for his mom too much, but she because
she told me and we had a meeting at her house.
I was privileged enough to be able to be invited
to go to her house after the memorial that we
had for Park in Atlanta, and we chopped it up
and she was just like, yeah, he played that record

(27:32):
with a prod.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
You know.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
He really loved that record, John, you know, and he
was so excited about it because he played it for me,
like look what I did, Mom, You don't like this one,
you know what I mean? And this one you like, Yeah,
this is gonna be something that, you know, something different
from me, you know. And he called it his crossover record.
And it was interesting because he's like, man, he's like this,

(27:54):
this record for you is gonna solidify you, like you
can go any any hood in the world. You good, John,
And I was like, no doubt. He's like, you're leaving already.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Man.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
It's like three or.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
Four in the morning, and I'm like, man, I gotta
get all the way back because I'm out, Like it
was like band Eyes or something like that, and I'm
in Pasadena, So I was like, man, I got to
get home. So but I left and I didn't know
that was gonna be the last time I saw him,
you know, crazy, give him a big hug and told
him I love him.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
I love the record, you know.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
And I banged that record over and over on the
with the window down on the way home, just knowing like.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
We got we got one. Yeah, it's crazy, Like what
is your genesis to y'all's relationship? Like what kind of
kicks that?

Speaker 1 (28:36):
Well, it was my man Beezo that invited me down
to the how do you want a video shoot? And
that was wild. They walk in, I met Casey and
Jojo there and and well it was Johnny J.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
The producer.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Johnny J was you know, rest in pieces hint damn
as well. I mean there were the that was the
dynamic duo really was was Johnny Jay and Tupac. They
were always making records. That was his primary producer as
far as the beats, I mean, from how do you
want it?

Speaker 3 (29:10):
To all eyes on me too?

Speaker 1 (29:13):
You know, the list goes on, but but our vibe
was like instantaneous. I walked into the r V where,
you know, and it was like, all right, piece, what's
up man, you know, and what's up guys, swin tech
everybody there and uh and then he's like, what you got, man,
you got any beats or anything my beat tape, you know,
and started playing. The first song I played for him

(29:35):
was a record that I had an idea for and
it was called Down and Out on Lonely Street. And
I was like, I told him the idea, and without
even having to tell him how the hook like the
melody of the hook or whatever, he started to do it.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
Like the beat.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
The beat went like but boom boom bot right, and
then he's going down and Out on Lonely Street. I
was like, that's exactly what I had in my that's
crazy like, and so we were going back and forth
like already, and then Casey and Jojo they were like,
what you guys got going there? You need to take
that in the studio, make something you.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
Know, really happen with that.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
And so yeah, that was kind of cool that just
having that moment with him, and I thought, if anything
that was that was dope, you know, you know, let
the video shoot. And sure enough, two weeks later he
hit me up and he's like, I'm I'm in Van.
I just come come to the studio, come to d M.
And I rolled right out there, man, and I.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
Told him what I needed.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
You know that this ends up being the session, the
last session.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
This was the well we actually I think we had
like yeah, that was that was the only session we
had was one day man. So it was the kind
of thing where I thought I might be the one
to cook up the beat, you know, I didn't know.
So I was like, bring my equipment, you know, make
sure I have a drum machine there.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
I was saying at that point in time, what is
your setup?

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Is it like three thousand rock mounts?

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (30:59):
You know, control older keyboard e roades, I have like
a vocoder, yeah, but I had all that, right, So,
but I was so I was ready to cook up
for him. But I was like, you got anything you
know that you want to play me, you know, as
far as beats, because Johnny Jay, come on, man, He's like,
all right, the first beat he plays me is are

(31:20):
you still down?

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Crazy?

Speaker 3 (31:22):
And uh?

Speaker 1 (31:23):
And I was like, that's it, that's it, listen.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
I'm going to set all this up right right.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
And so yeah, we started cooking up on that and yeah,
it was it was like a three hour deal before
we basically had the meat potatoes of the record.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
Jeez, three hours.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Like we were going just to for tat every other line,
you know, when I'd come up with the melody and
then he'd come up with the lyrics, and he'd come
up with the melody and I'd come up with the lyrics.
You know, it's like or you know, I'd start a
line and he'd finished the line, or you know, it's
just that's a real collaboration when you when you get
to build with somebody like that. And he was the
nicest person, but he was a no bullshit kind of dude,

(32:04):
you know what I mean, Like if there's somebody was
being loud in the room.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Kick him.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
He'd be like, hey man, you know it's John b
up in here, man, you know, And I'm like, what,
like he was really really down down for me?

Speaker 2 (32:16):
Is the studio aesthetic like alice a bottles and like
chicks or like what is.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
The mad mad forties and blunts and hennessy and and
just tons of hennessy. And I remember I was getting
lit and I started to mess up on the vocalder
little line.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
You're drinking hey as well?

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah, and smoking and all that, and so you know,
as I'm vibe and I'm kind of like having fun
with it.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
I'm like.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
And he's just like, wait, hold on, stop the take,
hey man. You know, play that ship right, no one,
no hell hold on, no more hennessy for John, No
more smoke for John till you get that jont right man,
now play it right now without having to be mean
about it. He just like was like serious, He's like,
no bullshit right now, Like play that play it, mean it,
you know. I mean, I was like, all right, cool,
run from the top, and that's what you hear. Same

(33:03):
goes for the ad libs at the top. When I
hit the little high note, and he was like putting
pressure on me as far as to you know, I
want to I want to feel it from the first note, bro,
And I was like, all right, cool. So he's like
just that was his way of producing, was kind of putting,
putting you in that performance mode of like, all right, man,
I'm gonna make this. I'mnna milk this thing, you know,

(33:24):
make it the best I can make it?

Speaker 2 (33:26):
Is it like tough to work that record with him
not being around?

Speaker 1 (33:31):
It was, man, it you know, I've I've learned over
years on how to deal with that because early on
you see this, I see old interviews with me, and
I look so sad, and I look so just you know,
just sort of disoriented. If you look at my old
videos or interviews, I'm very shy and very underspoken. I'm

(33:52):
kind of, to be quite honest with you, I was.
I have never really said this in an interview, but
I was very depressed really after that happened.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Yes, that was very depressed.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
I was in shock, probably like some like the Weird
Survivors twenty.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Three, twenty three. Yeah, when he died, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
When he was a kid five yeah, crazy man, I
can imagine, like you're like, you have to.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
And he got killed. It wasn't like he died of
like some sort of heart attack or some natural causes,
like they took his life right, so, but it was
like so it was like almost like a like a
the way that he perceived his death and he you know,
he weretold about he gave foreshadow you know, through all

(34:40):
through his career about his his demise. And so when
when he got shot, you know, the second time, I thought, well,
because I was in Europe, I was in England when
I found out about it, I was trying to finish
up the last song from my album because that was
also one of the that was going to be like.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
The last song I cut for the album.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
And I thought, well, he's Tupac. He's gonna he's gonna
survive this again, and he's just gonna come back and
be like I've been shot yeah that many times, I'm
still here, you know. I just thought that there's no
way he's gonna there's no way to get this opportunity.
First of all, I was thinking selfishly. I was because
I was so proud of what we did. I was like,

(35:20):
I can't wait to if I show up with two
poucs on my side is over right?

Speaker 3 (35:27):
Uh yeah, man.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
So that was a huge, huge thing when they told
me that he had passed. Man, it was like, you know,
the my my entire sort of vision of what I
thought was gonna happen was you know, no, it's not
gonna happen, Like, yeah, you're gonna have to just hold
those moments in for yourself and be proud of that

(35:48):
in your heart, of what you did and who he
was for you at that moment. And then we lost
Johnny Jay, you know as well beat Maker Are You
Still Down? And we we had the privilege of working
in the student many times after.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Park's pat Yeah, he's one of the most underappreciated, like
underrated producers of all time. Like when we talk about
you know, we talked about Primo earlier. You know, I
just interviewed Lazy Bone yesterday. We're talking about J Unique,
and I'm like, unique, Johnny J. These are guys that
like we just just need more flowers.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, they for what they did and that's why I
talk about them as much as possible.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
Johnny J.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
We did a part two that Are You Still Down?
Which was called Part two, and it had an old
verse of I believe it was an old record that
he had recorded with with with Pac obviously and uh,
but that he had never really put out. I guess
for some reason, they never really made the He might

(36:45):
have put it out on a mixtape or something, but
I had a different beat and the whole thing. So
what was so interesting is all his ad libs and
everything that we took from the record when we put it.
When we put it all together, it was like Pak
was in the room with man.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
It was.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
So it was such a great way to kind of
both kind of feel like he.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
Was almost like a nice way to mourn too. It
was a wonderful way to especially because it's with Johnny.
It really was.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
And even the ad libs though, the way it all
lines up, it feels like, are you still down? It
felt like he was in the room. And we just
kept saying that the whole time. Man, this is crazy, Man,
this is crazy, and thank you so much for making
this happen for me, you know. And so yeah, man,
when we lost, when we lost Johnny, that was at

(37:33):
least I could see my boys together, you know, both
both wrestling power together. So that's that's the beautiful part
of that.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
So the nineties is like the remix peak where we
would get amazing remixes to songs. Was there ever an
almost remix that happened with they don't know that just
for whatever reason just didn't come to fruition. It feels
like there.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Was lots of remix is that We're done? Yeah, there
was like tons I did, and then there was one
that Soul Shock and Carlin did that kind of took off.
That was the most recognized remix I remember was the
Soul Shock and Carlic.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
They kind of turned it into a little hip hop.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Like the remix era has got to come back, Like
we're like.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
When when they used to do different versions, different beats,
different beats and just call the remix jagged Edge.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Let's get married? Oh yeah, Like the remix of that
song is like now it's a whole other song.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
I mean yeah, I mean or like Biggie's uh you
know Juicy you know there's.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Like one twelve only you remix? Oh yeah, exactly, yeah,
or even like I mean any Germaine deprix, Like.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
Uh, how the Isley Brothers record was used uh for
the was it one more chance? Right, Yeah, oh no,
that was the that was that was the Bunny Bunny
de Barge. But I remember that being so dope that
he did that because I remember there was an old

(39:04):
tribe called Quest remix of Benita apple Bomb that used
the Isisley Brothers remix and that remix fire. Have you
ever heard that it was Benita apple Bomb? But it
was with the Isley Brothers.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
I'm not sure if I've heard it to it.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
It was Fire.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
It was on the scene check the Rhyme tribe call
Quest Man. It was Trive had some crazy remixes like
the Scenario remix to check the check the Ryme remix
one yea even like even like in hip hop, like
you would be like, yo, this is the Pete Rock remix. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Well see, That's the thing is I'm a huge hip
hop head, so I always wanted to work with those producers.
But instead of getting just a remix, I really wanted
to collaborate with him. I wanted to write the lyrics
in front of him, you know, and get in the
studio and really have that one on one kind of
back and forth thing going on, because that's just that's
just the way I think the greatest energy is exchanged

(39:56):
that way. You know, it's not it's not a surreal
kind of virtual situation. It's it's a real deal, like
you chemistry. That's you know, it's like we were vibing
that way that day and that's the way it sounds.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
You know.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
So the album you dropped last year, Rick Ross was
on the album Alex Hizeley Doneale Jones, Who's another goat?

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Yeah man tut to Donelle Jones, Donelle big Up?

Speaker 2 (40:19):
Do you still because because things have changed right now,
it's like I could send you an open and you
could just record it at home and send it back,
Like are you still like trying as much as you
can to like work in studio.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
With Yeah, well, Tank and I like, you know, big Up.
Tank track on the album album as well. Shout out to.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Tanks, him and Jay's podcast Fire to Man Rn't be Much.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah, Yeah, I was on there and that's where I
got to play him waiting on You, the song that
he you know, collaborated with me on, and he's just like, man,
that that's it.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
He's like, you're you're on the right vibe. He's like,
I need to be on that record.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
I was like you want to be on this record.
I was like, that was the greatest compliment, first of all,
because he he's like one of the modern kind of
energies I've paid attention to over the years. Vocally, that
has really influenced me because he sings from a different place,
He has a different tonality.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
He's full.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
And I grew up with the Babyface school. We sang
very smooth and very you know, all the articulations and
stuff is great, but then that fullness, it's like a
different kind of strength, projection and all that. So I
think that, you know, you learn vicariously through people, and
he's been one of those guys I paid attention to.
So yeah, when we got to actually he came through

(41:33):
the studio, it wasn't our first time working together too.
We worked in two thousand and four. We worked on
My Stronger every Day album, So you had to get
to you know, get back in the lab though with him,
and you know, just he didn't want to change anything.
He's like, man, I just want to put a bridge
on it. It's like, oh, perfect, you know, put the
harmonies on there. He started playing piano to the record

(41:55):
in the hall way, and I was like that's got
to go on there.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
Man, that's beautiful. What are you playing?

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Let's record that right now, then play piano on there
and yeah, so he kind of put the bells and
whistles to it, and h then you know, I thought,
that's that's wonderful.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
Are we gonna shoot a video?

Speaker 1 (42:11):
And then he was cool enough to come through and
shoot the video with me as well. So yeah, it
really it really jumped the album off to a great,
great start, and I felt like it's the it's the
kind of moves I need to be making at after
thirty years.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
Of you know, being in the game.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
Now this is if you're gonna put something out, make it,
you know, make it something that's classic, and make it
something that people are really going to pay attention to
and it's not going to just fly over their heads.
And at the same time, I'm not a cookie cutter.
I'm not kind of like influenced by anything right now
other than the exactly what I told you. I was like,
I want to work with my boy Tank, Yeah, and

(42:45):
we're gonna just cook up and make a dope record.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Do you feel like now, because I know a lot
of my homies who are like quote unquote like legacy artists,
they're more busy now on the road than ever.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Oh yeah, because the hardest working guys in R and B.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Well, it feels like like older artists are the only
people could really move hard tickets anymore.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Like yeah, like in terms of like we have an establishment.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Yeah, but I'm sorry, no, I was gonna say, like,
is that something that you're just like, yo, like business
is booming for you on the road.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Yeah, I mean that's really the main bread and butter really,
because you know, I will say the industry has been
completely changed in terms of the way that we monetize
our music, right in terms of like the way we
make money for our music. And I'm not selling records
anymore that tangible things. These are streams and you got

(43:32):
to have certain you know, billions of streams in order
to you So I will say the music is pretty
much for free, you know, as far as like the
that that aspect of putting music out and getting paid
for the music. You have to go out and do
shows in order to get money in this business. I
will say that to the guys coming up in the

(43:54):
game who think you could just put a record out,
You're gonna ching and you know, I mean, these days,
there's more opportunity for that to happen then there was
when I started, because you have TikTok and Instagram and
all the different social media and you know, you know,
platforms that will you know, sometimes turn.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Over a hit, you know for sure, and even like
maybe even taking a song that's X amount of years old.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
And all and all of a sudden research.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
You know.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
It's so I love I love that about where we
are with the tools that we have, you know, as
far as just that that part of there's so many
different tools to be able to I mean podcasts right
here right right right dope. Aspect of being able to
do interviews, I remember, I remember the only time I
would ever get interviewed was that either on Soul Train or.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
B E T you know, or mt V, t r
L or you know these places.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
That where you get invited to go if your record.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Was you know, right doing its thing. You know.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
So Yo, what was it like working with ODB? Yeah,
because you had ODB when he was when he was
you know, Dirt McGirt.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, that was right, that was right before
you passed as well.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
I mean yeah, I mean just.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
That was just Blaze on the track and I collabed on.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
My favorite, my favorite producer of all time.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
But really, yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
I don't know what he's doing, but he sake, please
put more beats out.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
Yeah yeah, come on, I need that juststation.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
I gotta get.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
That's where he actually he put his his music into
the gaming.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
And ah, I know so yeah yeah the I style
PlayStation controller.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
That guy man was such a great collaboration because we
cooked up so many records so fast. It was like
we made like five johnts in like two days or
something like that. We were we just went, we went
hand and it was crazy. The song that we did
with Beanie Man, you know, h every time remix was

(45:54):
just as dope as the you know, the o dB
or OG version the ODB got on. It's the same
song every time. It's just we did we did a
remix for it. And that's an example what we're talking
about different versions of the song. You know, it's like
a dancehall version of the song. But yeah, I mean
ODB was wild. You know, he came in imitating my
ad libs or whatever, my melody. He's just like started

(46:16):
off singing just crazy. You know, the top business lugs,
this classic ODB. But I mean it was a dream
come true because I mean I used to just rock
his records, man, Like I would roll down the window
and head down to the Century Club when I was
twenty two years old, man bumping like oh maybe I
like RO maybe ro.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
You know.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
It's just uh yeah, just memories of of ODB man
being so like he was kind of like the h
the wild sort.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Of mascot of our time back then for sure, you know,
I mean always thinking about like his like the game
on Man Gone too Soon. I feel like he'd been
like he'd had a sitcom or something, you know what
I mean, Like yeah, yeah, like.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
We're making so many big moves though to be you know,
like to have to still have a you know, a
EBT card or whatever it was, you know, and and
you know, and just being on Mariah.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
Carey's I just found out all this and just he
told he.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Was huge, huge tours and all that.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
I interviewed a ghost face like a couple of months ago,
and he said that uh Odib came to the Triumph
video shoot, but he wouldn't be in the video unless
they gave him fifteen grand and so and so somebody
set put a skullly over their face and did his
verse while he watched. Oh ship, that's not even him
in the videos. Wild.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yeah, that's wild that that sounds like him.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Man. It was like, I'm only gonna be in the
video of I didn't.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Know the guy, you know, I didn't get to meet
him or work with him in the studio on that
Red Got It. But but me and just just that's
the story of me and just collaboration.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Just yeah, because around that time he was like with Rockefeller.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Day I got Yeah, because at that point me and
Dame had already been doing business because he got jay
Z to do the record from you know, Coco and so, yeah,
he was managing or he got signed with.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Yeah, Simond Rockefeller. There was like that was like the
kind of the end the era of like damon yep,
that whole thing.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
When we spoke on the phone, we said peace and everything, and.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Hey, we got to wrap up this interview another one
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(48:45):
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sure you shoot them a visit. So you have uh,
like you said, your hip hop head. So who's who's
Who's like your top five rappers?

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Well, nas is my all time favorite, but.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
You got to work with him?

Speaker 3 (49:06):
Yeah, yeah, and that was crazy.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
I recently ran into nas In in London, came to
his show. He's got the orchestra behind him and like
it's like so Frank Sinatra, you know, but the MC
and just as far as mc in, there is nobody
who could touch him close period. I used the mind. Man,
he's a mind of hip hop, like he to me.

(49:29):
I grew up off of guys like Rock Kim, you know,
and and rock Kim was such a linguist and such
a rhythmic his cadences and you know, he would hit
you with with something that was just so dynamic and
so but it was also sort of the that that
that gall that he had with his voice, you know,
to keep it sort of so serious and sort of

(49:51):
monotone in that in that way, none of that. It
was like very serious, I'm gonna tell you like this,
you know. So my old thing was nas he he
he took that over in terms of like that whole mindset.
And in ninety six is when I remember him, you know,

(50:13):
ninety five I will say maybe ninety five.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Was when Bill Maddick was ninety four.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
It was ninety four, okay, so ninety four, Yeah, I
knew it was right there because I was bumping that
that album when I first got signed. That was sort
of like you know, going to New York and playing
New York, New York, you know, like I mean, or
you know, New York state of mind.

Speaker 4 (50:34):
You know, yeah, yeah, I mean, he just you know,
it's it's it's it's one of those things, man, like,
I mean, the collaboration between him and Pete Rock on
that album too, and you know Primo of course.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Then they just dropped the album, that Light Years album. Yeah, amazing,
fifteen years too late. It's been nice to get that
ship in like two thousand and four.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Yeah, yeah, I mean he's you know, but to get
to sort of be this fan of him for so
many years and then get to actually have him come
to my house and listen to the beats in the
studio and.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
Just be like, yo, that one right there.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
That's got to be crazy having him come to the crib.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yeah, I mean, because I.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
Mean it's there too at the same time, is it
a separate thing.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
That was a separate thing.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
So easy.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
And I hooked up in Chicago actually and recorded because
we you know, I let him know I wanted to
work and he, you know, he was cool with it,
and we made everything happen. Both flew to Chicago and
for some reason we cut we cut it out there.
But yeah, it was it was real. That was dope.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
I mean, nas is coming to your house. This is around.
This is probably right before things get too hairy with
him and jay Z. I'm assuming it's that in that
pocket of time.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
Yeah, yeah, that hadn't started yet.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yeah, you know, but I was a huge fan of
like records like Black Girl Lost.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
Yeah, I mean, and like this is by the way,
two thousand and one ESCO season. This is this is
not Escobar.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so so records like Uchi Wally
and you know it's happening. And but you know, Nas
was playing pool in my house with my brother when
I because I had left real quick to go to
the store to get something, and it came back and
and there's Nas playing pool and I'm like.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
What's up.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Man.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
He's like, JB, what's up?

Speaker 1 (52:20):
And I'm just like, it's on some regular, you know
what I mean, just some regular like the homies.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
Just came through.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
And he was just very you know, it's still Nas,
but he's just you know, he's approachable. It's not he
wasn't gonna come out his back for anybody. And as
far as just like the vibe was very serious, but
it was.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
Very very easy.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
What didn't make me feel like uneasy or like, you know,
he wasn't he wasn't trying to relate to where I
was coming from. Because I was like, man, I want
to try to do something a little smooth, check this out.
And I played the track because I mean, the song
like Street Dreams is a huge influence for me as
far as the push of why I would do a
track like Finer Things, because I made that track, what

(52:59):
was inspiring that track would probably be a track like
street Dreams or or Black Girl Lost, but in that
in that vein that kind of pocket. And when he
heard it, he's like, man, that's like some male.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
Shot day kind of vibes.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
Man.

Speaker 3 (53:14):
I was like, that's exactly.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
What I'm going. Yeah, and so we we hit it
off and he was so professional when he recorded the record.
He first he recorded like a whole sixteen bars and
then he was.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
Like, deleted, Man, I hate it. And I was like,
what do you mean, Man, it's so dube.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
He's I'm a right again. Man, it's it's coming, but
that ain't it.

Speaker 5 (53:35):
And I saved that John Yeah, yeah, it's deleted. Yeah yeah, right, no,
but you know, but that was that was That was
one of the best collaborations next to Tupac.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
And I've had some.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
Pretty amazing collaborations work with most Death, work with Yah, yeah,
shout out to most. We're actually gonna I don't want
to speak on it too soon, but we're going to
revisit something that we collaborated on back in the day. Oh,
they're actually gonna re reinvigorate that.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
We're going to revisit that anytime we get new yahsing
Bee is a good good day ing Bee.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
Yes, big up.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Eight you grew. You came up in like the wildest
well maybe not the wildest time, but maybe the wildest
time because well listen the fact that there were no
cameras in social media. I think you the groupies were
a lot more crazier back and what you have a because.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
You are like a no, I'm not going to talk
about it.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Well, you're a sex symbol man, and so I groupie stories.
You've never had nobody like try to sneak into your
hotel or follow you back from a show or anything. Crazy.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
It's happened, man, It's happened, and it still kind of does.
I mean, it's it's it's a matter of just you know,
living with diplomacy and having you know, I mean I'm
married eighteen years now and uh, you know, happily married
with my children, my beautiful two girls, you know, well
young one's a young lady now in eighteen and eleven

(55:00):
year old as well. So yeah, I mean it's there's
a lot to live for, you know, in terms of
the realm of you know, having some self respect and
also respect.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
For my mind for sure. For sure, of course, you know,
but what did it get to a point where you
realize like, oh, we got to get the security together.
Because it's never.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Gotten to that point. I think I've stayed too much
in my artistry bag in terms of like really about
my producing, really about my performing. Like people know, I'm
a real artist. I'm not like the guy who's looking
for that attention. I think when you're looking for that attention,
you'll get it. It comes, it'll come to you because
that's what you that's what you want, you know, sending
the messages out through the music to come come get

(55:37):
it if you want to type. No, my music is
much more relationship oriented, and I'm much more of a
of a recluse than I may come off to be
as this guy like that comes out of the club
and the glasses and the leather.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
I'm in my artistry bag.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
You know. It's not necessarily that I'm the guy who
comes out to socialize and wants to talk to everybody,
even though that's my job, and I sure do you know,
I love it. I don't take it for granted, and
every interaction that I have I try to make a
genuine one, you know what I mean, Even if the
persons on some just giddy, and I was like.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
For coming to the show, try to put trying to
picture real.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
I try to like allow people to have a moment
of my real, authentic self because I am so appreciative still.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
Of you still get to do this thirty years.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Yeah, you know it really means something to me. If
I wasn't a musician and I was only looking for
the fame and only looking for the money, then.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Maybe I might not be so for you know, I
crashed out already. Yeah, yeah, No, I'm in.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
It for the music. I love the sounds that I'm
hearing still, and I love to be able to sing
and play and you.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Know, so like I said earlier, it's been a it's
like a great time for R and B again.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Who are some of the newer artists or songs that
you just have appreciated just being being a fan?

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Yeah, well, I mean on the on the mainstream level,
Chris Brown has been huge. Like I watched him sort
of like grow all these years, and to see this
new music that he's put out, I love that, love
what he's done.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Yeah. I saw his Breezy Ball band and I was tripping. Yeah,
and I only got to see, Like it's great because
I had it too as well. Yeah, I went. I
went in Vegas after the iHeart Festival, yeah, or the
iHeart Awards rather or festival, whatever it was.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
He's such a great performer.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
No, I only got to see like the second half,
and I was like, wait a minute, he's been on
for Yeah, he already was on for ninety minutes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Yeah, it's crazy three hours, so it is wild. Well
that's what you do when you season like that, you
know what I mean, And you have all that, all
those gifts.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Now, I'm glad he did that.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
He's stayed dancing gift okay, because that guy can dance.
Flying in the air, yeah, all of that. The flying
in the airpart is extraordinary though, because that's like some circus,
so you know, that's like level.

Speaker 4 (57:56):
No.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
I'm just glad because I feel like Chris Brown is
our generation's MJ. And I feel like he should be
like he's in the Goat Combo. Yeah, And you know,
I'm glad he like put it on the table and
said I'm doing stadiums.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Yeah, and they and and why why.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
Why mess around with it?

Speaker 1 (58:16):
And you can do that and then sell every show out,
you know, and you know and how many hundreds and
millions of dollars that they come back right after that,
you know. So yeah, No, it's wonderful to see R
and B, you know, to how far it's grown, what
it's grown into, and artists like you know, Chris Brown
to be able to bring.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
That to the table.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
I mean, I will say I've paid a lot of
attention to the Weekend over the years.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
You know, he's also Jesus.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
And you know, it's it's it's the entire production of
what the Weekend brings. I pay attention to the tracks,
the mixing, the vocals, the lyrics, and it's what he brings.

Speaker 3 (58:52):
To the table.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
As far as that, it's I really think that he's
a wonderful artist.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
He's my favorite non hip hop artists probably Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
But I mean when you could do like a song
like song like save your Tears right and then still
be able to do like your trap R and B
like like timeless and stuff like that, Yeah, it's and
it all works.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
And then when you did you get to see his
his stadium show, Yeah, it's like it's like different. It
makes you kind of like because like what he's doing
with Chris Brown's doing is different, but it's still very like, yeah,
you're like every the visuals are so well thought out,
and songs.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Are what you celebrate in that In that show Crazy,
it's it's the songs that you celebrate because he's just
by himself up there.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
Just walking the States, so it's not a lot of dancing,
but he's got like the crazy like you know, chicks
behind him with the red ship on they're doing that thing.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
You know. It's it's uh, yeah, it's it was cool.

Speaker 3 (59:45):
That was the loudest show I've ever been to.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
It.

Speaker 3 (59:47):
We'll say, man, that was like so loud.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
I was like, and he's like the nicest dude ever cool.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
I've never met anyone.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
He's He's so cool.

Speaker 4 (59:55):
Man.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
I'm featured on on his new album, which is kind
of cool. They sampled someone to Love they did yeah, yeah,
and it was cool, Like they hit me up and
they're like, we we pitched it up, so you know,
but I said, oh.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
Let me hear it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
I think that's the best album and that Hurry Up
Tomorrow that ship is I think it was like my
number three. I think my number one album of the
year was Clips and then it was Freddie Gibbs and Alchemists,
and then it was The Weekend. That Weekend album was
crazy Man. Yeah, it's like good shrewd music on there too.
Hey love mushrooms, so you could throw some fucking throw

(01:00:31):
that Weekend on and just trip balls.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
But no, I think I also think the ladies are
killing it, like on R and B tip, I feel
like women are running shit right now, Like shout out
to Summer Walker and Maria's killing it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Yeah, she's dope.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Cali UCI's is one of my favorites. I would love
to collaborate with her. I mean, you know, Ari Lennox Is,
She's incredible. You know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
I love to collaborate with all of them, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
But I've actually ran into Ari before, and we you know,
we've both expressed.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
I ran into seven eleven on Kuwanga and Magnolia randomly
at like four in the morning, but she was making
a coffee. I was like, are you so sweet?

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
She hit me for my birthday and said happy birthday.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
So I just think that's cool, Like no other artist
like reached out to me and she did, and that
was kind of that's super random.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
But I was like, whoa what are.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
You already I mean, I I mean, look, the album
dropped March of last year, so I'm assuming you're already
working on the next thing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Yeah. Well, you know, we kind of we're gonna do
the European leg of my tour for this album. We've
been doing the thirty year anniversary of my first album, Yeah,
bona fide, and that's what's been keeping me busy for
the most part with the touring. And we're kind of
calming down a little bit right now, going through some
renovations at home with my studio completely studio, Yeah, making.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
A brand new studio.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
So that's kind of put me in a creative height
right now, kind of downtime right now, but at the
same time, still producing, working on different projects.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Universe is one of the coming up on thirty years
of the second album, right, which is like your biggest album.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
Yeah, Yeah, that's that's the one that we're gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
We're gonna, you know, I really want to get into
the idea of putting out my original music myself independently, and.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
Like, yeah, I just had this talk with Lazy Bone
last night because he was telling how they don't own
their masters, and I was like, look, I know there's
a lot of moving parts with bone dugs and harmony
for we all know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Yeah, if you guys could all just come together and
re record all of your shit or do like a
like an unplugged version you guys own masters. Yeah, yeah,
like with that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Well, the thing is is that now it's it it
you know it's possible to you should do a third
reissue to reissue records. I was gonna saying we remaster
them and then reissue.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
When you celebrate the thirty years of the second album,
you should go do a tiny desk.

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
Oh, that'd be nice.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
Yeah, I feel like a John B tiny I love
that crazy, I love that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
Yeah, I haven't done that yet, so that'd be probably. Yeah,
that'd be viral without a doubt.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
Well, ship man, thanks for coming through.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
Absolutely man, my pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
You gotta check it up with you. Yeah. Man, you're
on the road. When when you going to Europe?

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
So Europe is happening in spring, and yes it's we're
going to England, We're going to Paris, We're going to Germany.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
It's stanbul shout out to Turkey. Man, go get you
a hair job out you don't need it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
Yeah, We're going to a lot of different places. But yeah,
I got a show coming up in LA Actually is
it next week?

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
Next week?

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
On the seveneventeenth Saturday. Next Saturday, we're at the Regent
Regent Do you do the whole over to my wife
right now? She's she's got the other half of my brain.
I get it, man, Yeah, no, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
We're excited about the show. Got my man Sebastian Michael
on there as.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Well, special money, a special special. I was like special somebody, No, no,
Sebastian Michael. Yes, no, he is super dope, you know,
another self contained artist that writes his own stuff and
plays roads, plays keys, and so I'm excited man, because

(01:04:28):
that's I always love to have, like a a night
where somebody warms up the vibes and getting.

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
Writes, everybody going and yeah, he's he's doing his thing.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
What is your biggest market? Would you say? Outside? Like
like out outside of you know, home here in l A.
But like, is there like a city that just.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
I mean everywhere it's been so supportive, So it's kind
of really at this point everything is hard to say.
I mean, it's because when you have sold out shows
that I don't mean to brag about it right now,
but it's it's a wonderful thing to see my can.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
You see like on the streaming side of who who
streams the most? On the back end, like, I don't
know what.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
The UK the Bay has been.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
You're definitely, yeah, for sure, like Oakland's finest over here.
He's like you damn right, represent But I mean, you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Know it's weird. I mean New York and in all
of the East Coast too as well. It's been I
mean DC, I mean it's been. It's been crazy. I've been,
you know, it's all of the shows. Atlanta has been incredible,
incredibly supportive this year with this new album, you know,
so it's it's really hard to say. Man, it's just

(01:05:36):
love everywhere, and that's one thing I'm just so blessed
to continue to not only love it myself, but to
see that the people didn't forget about me.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Last question in twenty twenty six, if you could do
a collab album with anybody rapper or singer, who would
be Ooh.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
That's a hard one.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
Damn hmm. Well, I just just because I'd love to
see what it would be, because I know it would
be epic.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
Would be me and eminem. Oh, that would be really
that would be really dope.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
One might argue two of the greats in each of
your fields that happened to be Vanilla.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
Well that part too, I mean that's not that that's
that's that's.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
It'd be the Caucasian version of the best of both worlds. Yeah,
oh my god, that'd go crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
I mean that's a no brainer. But I think that
his creative you know, his his know how, his skill.
But then also like how deep he goes into writing
his records reminds me of part.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Yeah, he's he's very like for like, I have a
lot of homies who've had the opportunity to work with
him in the studio. Like yell from those guys, and
they just say, like he treats the studio sessions like
like it's like special ops training, you know what. I'm like,
you know, the session ends at five pm because I
have to go in with my family, so we're not

(01:06:58):
here to funk around. That's what's up.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Love working in the day. That's a weird thing for people.
Sometimes a lot of a lot of night owls in
this business. And I used to be like that too,
But as you have families, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Yeah, it's like you don't want to get to seven am.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
I want to start at eleven in the morning.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
That's why I don't want it's a good part like
one o'clock for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Yeah, I'd like to get get going real quick and
then then you have that fresh energy too as well.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
John B. M and M album coming soon, that'd be nice.
I'm kidding. We'll just put in the world.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
Hey, let's just get a jont that's all.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
Put it out there.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Malet's get a song together. That'd be incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
Well, appreciate you coming in, hang man, thank you, John B.
Shad you there it is