#642 - Anees on Quitting Law for Music, Selective Christianity, Israel Speech Censorship & AI’s Dark Side

https://youtu.be/CdrUI1lGw_I

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ye always go y'alls and east check me out on
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Speaker 2 (00:03):
Before we get into the interview, man, I want to
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We are one O two nine.

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Importantly, we're all over the country, so you could tap
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hear us. Let's get into the interview.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Hey, man, we're here. We have of course got a
kick off the Bootleg CAV podcast with a special guest.
A niece is in the building. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, man.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
You are I always will show people your content because
I feel like you are like a perfect example of
like I always show lazy artists like this fucking guy,
or I don't know how many times I've shown people
your page, or I'm like, look how many different times
you can promote a single song? Because I felt like

(01:11):
every time i'd open my phone there'd be like a
different way. You were like, uh that, I don't like
the feeling. I'm like, Yo, how many fucking how many
pieces of content?

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Just in general, like when you're pushing a record, because
I feel like you have such a successful story as
an independent artist, but it's not by accident, you know
what I mean? Like, what is kind of your game
plan when it comes to promoting music as an independent artist?
Because you do so so well at it? Yeah, I
mean when it being independent, right, you don't have the

(01:46):
million dollar machine behind you just pumping ads into your videos. So,
but it's free to promote your own music. And so
for me, I just know people connect with what if
they see an artist enjoying them if it looks like
the artist actually loves their song, which I do, They're
gonna be way more likely to love it themselves. So,
since I love my music, if I can just capture

(02:08):
that and share that in as many different ways, as possible.
It's just natural. It's gonna latch onto those who are
meant to find it. Are you doing like stuff on
just your iPhone? Oh yeah? Oh yeah. I mean sometimes
we use the fancy cameras, but like some of my
most viral clips of all time, especially with leave Me,
it was just a phone propped up and you know,

(02:29):
just me singing my ass off. Right yeah? Yeah. How
many times do you think you promoted that song? Oh? Shit?

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Like how many? How many different pieces of content? I
mean hundreds for sure, that's hundreds.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
How many streams does that song have cross all platforms?
It's probably like one hundred mil bro. Yeah, what are
we doing here? We're doing a lot. That's a lot.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
So you give me a kind of your background, like
where you grew up, Like, how long have you been
making music?

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, you got a lot going on. It's I'll make
a long story short. I'm from Virginia. We're aint ship
to do but cook. Yeah, and to the clips exactly.
I met Pusha at a hidden steakhouse in Miami. Yeah. Nice,
we had been tapped in before. Did he know you
were like the Virginia guy too? I don't think he knew.

(03:18):
I was from Virginia. He just knew me from ig
but obviously I knew he was. But yeah, I'm from Virginia.
I've been making music now only for like six years.
Before this, I was a lawyer. Really yeah, so you
do your own deals. That's my hit. No fuck no,
but that's my hidden lare. I went to law school
and became a lawyer. Quit, and then just TikTok came

(03:38):
around and I said, fuck it, what kind of lawyer?
I mean, you don't really have to choose. In law school,
I was probably headed toward immigration, right, but the few
internships I did kind of told me like, I don't
want to do this, and so was it just because
because being a lawyer.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
I feel like, if you if there's like lawyers that
are like services to people, and then there's lawyers where
you're like, oh yeah, yeah, I gotta look the other
way on a lot of stuff.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
No. So my dad is an immigration lawyer, right, and
the kind of law he does, and then I watched
him as I grew up is he would bring refugees
from all different countries here and you know, helping people. Dude,
I get through the legal process for the free too,
like a lot of pro bono work, you know, like
people see lawyer and they think, oh, like every lawyer
is just bathing in money, right, printing cash, screwing people over.

(04:34):
But there are the lawyers like my dad that treat
it more as like a service, right. And so I
think if I would have done law, perhaps I would
have followed in that direction. But it just didn't. It
just wasn't for me.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
And had you had a itch to do music before,
because when you say you just started making music six
years ago, it's like you just got in the studio
and like just got sported.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Oh yes, yes, yes, I mean I had always freestyle,
I had always sang. I had always loved music. That
was always my therapy. And so but I kind of
kept that to myself, you know, because I just didn't
think you could do it. You know, I didn't think
that me some kid from Virginia who you know. I
kind of felt like, what business do I have being

(05:18):
someone that makes music? Like that's that's that's for other people, right,
And so I kind of kept my like my friends
knew that I was a musical person, but it was
it was kind of just something I thought, you know,
I felt like it like, this wasn't an option for me.
But then once you go through something extremely depressing that
you don't love, which for me was law school. By

(05:39):
the end of that, when you hit rock bottom, you
get clarity. You look around and you're like, oh, I
don't want to do this. Where'd you go to law school?
George Mason? Yeah, So they had a NCAA run at
some point a long time ago. Actually, they're good right now,
too good right now. Tony Skin, the point guard from
the six run is the coach now, Oh it was sick.

(05:59):
You're right, it was. I remember that. They were like
the Yeah, they created the concept of like NCAA Cinderella story. Sure,
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the podcast. So you end up on the other side
of law school. You're unhappy. Yeah, you're like, oh depressed. Yeah.
So your first time recording a song, do you put

(07:49):
it out? I mean, that's twenty twenty. I had no
idea what I was doing. I was just finding people
on the internet on social media that I thought maybe
could help me. And yeah, I put I put out
a couple really, in my opinion, like bad songs, you know,
but you have to do that. You have to you

(08:10):
have to make a bunch of shitty songs before you.
Were they out on SoundCloud or were they out everywhere?
Did you YouTube? Okay? Yeah? YouTube? And uh? And then
little by little I came the confidence to actually put
something on DESP and did that first song? Did it catch?
I mean, if you ask my early fans, yeah, yeah.
If you ask the OG and East fans if they

(08:31):
love Neverland Fly or they love Brown Kit, or they
love maybe you know, like the the diehards that come
to every show, you know, if you ask them after
the show, they're disappointed I didn't play that song. Do
you hate those songs when you listen to them now,
because you're just like, oh, I'm so much better. I
used figured it out now. I used to cringe at them.
I used to I used to cringe. I've come to

(08:52):
actually love my earliest artist self. That took a while, though,
I'm not gonna lie like in the beginning, you know,
maybe a few years ago if you would ask mental
you I hate those songs? Right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
I feel like especially most people don't put out the
first few songs they recorded.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah, no, we usually never hear those correct, like every
or something. Yeah, that's crazy, man. My hard drives are
on the internet. Six years started during the pandemic.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, oh shit, yeah, so you really had to depend
on the internet.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
I mean it was a bit of a silver lining. Yeah,
Like everybody was at home, Yeah, had nothing to do
but look at their phones. No, it was I feel
like it was the best time to put out during
that time, like a lot of dope. Like I just
think about the albums that got nominated for Hip Hop
Album of the Year. It was like Freddy Gibbs and
Nas and Push a T. And I was like, if

(09:44):
people were listening to music, they weren't partying. They were
looking for shit to like, dude, they couldn't party, so
they had to actually listen. People were DJing on it
on ig live, you know, fifty thousand. It was a
wild time. It was definitely a wild time. So at
this point in time, you obviously have a ton of success.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Why have you decided? Is it a conscious decision? Is
it just because the right situation hasn't came up to
stay independent?

Speaker 1 (10:13):
I knew when I first popped, when you know, when
I first popped, all the labels came, yeah, you know,
and they all offered what they offer right now. At
that time twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, twenty two, I
think labels still were in the mentality that they could
offer what they'd been offering right And I think over time,

(10:33):
with social media kind of changing how music works, labels
have actually shifted toward the artist. Well they kind of
have to, Yeah, they have to. And in my gut
I knew that. In my gut, I'm like, I'm not
going to take these first couple deals because why would
I give up seventy percent? Why would I give up
even fifty percent? I felt like, you know, over time,

(10:54):
if I just kept building my my business. Eventually, if
I wanted to work with a label, they'll do it
on my terms. But you know, are you aware of INDEFI.
I've heard, I've heard of it. I'm not aware of
what they do. I've heard the name now, so I'll
just I'll share with you a little bit because this
is a big part of why I've stayed independent. Indefi

(11:15):
is a company in New York. Essentially, they connect artist
to strategic partner and or they connect label to strategic partner.
They found me shortly after Slip and hit me up

(11:36):
like ten times until I responded, and eventually I was like,
fuck it, let me, let me get on a call
with them. Because this is very persistent and for Sun
and Moon and for Leave Me, and for my first
album and all the successes that came with it. A
big part of why I didn't have the partner with
the labels. They just connected me to partners that could
give me service services right, but not on label terms,

(12:00):
not three sixty, not with an option. I never took
a dollar. I always told them, you can give me
one dollar if you want to make this like a deal,
but I don't want your money. I got my money.
I was fortunate enough to get money from my first
couple of songs. I wanted their strategy. I wanted them
to connect me in the right place is build the inroads,
help me build my own infrastructure. So yeah, so what
were like, give me an example of like a someone

(12:23):
they might connect you with, like a PR person and
oh yeah, digital marketing or yeah, all the above. So
one of the partners was a digital marketing like powerhouse
in South Asia, right, Southeast Asia. So with Sun and Moon,
which was so big in the Philippines, that was perfect.
You know, my partner on that song connected me to
another end if I partner who I technically wasn't working

(12:45):
with on Sun and Moon, but we tapped in with
him because we knew that he had HELLA inroads in
the Philippines, in Indonesia, in Malaysia. He's helped his own
artists blow up there too. So there's that they can
connect you to digital marketing, you know beasts. They also
connectet with PR people. You know, my partners connected me

(13:06):
with the team at YouTube Music, right, you know, maybe
some people at different DSPs here and.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
There, because it's hard to like know, like you know,
a lot of people like you should have a rapid
YouTube music and I do now, right, But like it's
not like you would know that unless somebody was like, yo,
let's you need a repid YouTube music.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Because the labels own that. The labels they got was
like they got their people, they gave they gay keep
the ship for sure. And if you're an artist and
you're like, I want to grow, I want to blow up.
I know I can make good music, and you don't
have that kind of mentality of like i'll sit patient,
I'll find the right partners, I'll build this myself, it's
then a label's probably for you, you know, because even

(13:45):
though they're gonna take what they're gonna take out of
your pie, they're going to give you. They're going to
give you a structure and a framework that you're not
gonna get for yourself. For me, that's not just not
the case, Like I'm gonna get it for myself, and
I was able to get it for myself.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
What for people don't know and don't understand or grasp
because digital marketing means so much and it's evolving depend
I mean, it meant one thing three years ago, five
years ago than what it means today. I know, like
for a minute, it was like, hey, you know, all
of my digital marketing homies would be very like they
would do services for major labels, you know, Interscope, whatever,

(14:23):
and they would essentially help connect Like let's say you
had a record or a project and they would be like, look,
we we have.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
X amount of user.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
They would call them user curated playliffs if they have
access to so they'd be like, Yo, there might be
a this Fast and the Furious thirty playlist that has
like two hundred thousand saves on it. We'll get you
on it and we and we know the guy who
runs that and like twenty and it's like it might
be some kid in Utah or something.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
Probably is.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
And it's like that is a way to kind of
because at the end of the day, like when you
put a new I mean then like it's changing because
Spotify has changed lot of the rules. But it's like
you wouldn't want to hit that release radar.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, you kind of want to as soon as you drop,
have everything lined up to where it hits algorithmically. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
I mean I think digital marketing looks like a lot
of different things. I'm not a I'm not a digital
marketing professional, so there's a ton of shit. I don't know,
but I know a big part of it is, like
you said, those those indie playlists, it's knowing the right

(15:25):
and most efficient spend of capital on creating UGC like
user generated content on different platforms. You know a lot
of people just piss money away to influencers. Yes, you know,
and I've done that. I've been guilty of myself. You know,
We've spent at times twenty grand, twenty five grand, fifteen grand,
ten grand. Here there at influencers who are going to
make videos to your song, and it doesn't lead to

(15:47):
anything but the right people who know how to spend
the right amount to the right influencers. Perhaps that actually
can lead to, you know, driving up the usages of
your song on these social media apps like TikTok and
ig and then maybe that does lead to songs becoming
a trend and that and then you do see like
it's still viable when the song becomes a trend, it

(16:09):
still pops.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah, it's almost like you gotta like I feel like
if you have a you know, I've dealt with this
with a company close copy before, but It's like you're
the marketing guy at a label or a distribution company
will be like, hey, we have X amount of people
that we think fit this song for TikTok.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
We could get like ten of them, yeah yeah that
are smaller, or we can go after like two big
ones and spend fifty grand. Right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
It's like, you know, he's just kind of picking and
choosing what makes sense and then also making sure like
the people who you're giving money to align with your vibe.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
Sure yeah, or your ethics. And at the end of
the day, I'm a firm believer of this song has
to pop on its own, no matter what. If you
pour fifty grand, one hundred grand, say you pour million
into a dud, it's not going I mean we see
it all the time. Yeah, major artists, these they spend
so much money. There's a lot of these big dudes

(17:07):
right now can't catch a fucking yeah. Ti is a
perfect example. You're just one hit away. Some motherfucker. TI
has a top ten record on Billboard. No one's all coming.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, but there's people who are quote unquote more relevant
than him right now that are just setting money on
fire from their budget.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Of course, they're just bleeding money because there's this belief
set that like, if enough influencers do it, you can listen.
You can if you spend enough money, you can buy.
You can buy your way to ten thousand and fifty
thousand creates run a song. But they can all be useless,
you know, because if the creation, if it's not driving consumption,

(17:45):
it's if there's no connectivity, if the create doesn't actually
make other people. If I have a song and I
spend fifty grand and I get ten thousand creates, but
none of those creates make the girl down the street
watch it and be like, oh, I will also use
this audio, then what's the point. The whole point of
this is to spread fire. It can't create fire. Hey,
we got to stop the interview to tell you about

(18:06):
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Speaker 1 (19:09):
Let's get back to the podcast.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Do you do a lot of I see Larussell talking
about the amount of money he spends on ig ads.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
He spends way more than me. But do you do
it that very minimally? You? I probably should do more
when I saw how much l Russell spends. It really
made me think, oh shit, maybe I'm under indexing.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
So is your game essentially like we're gonna keep throwing
shots in the algorithm. Yeah, and like if one out
of five of these, you know, the.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Last couple of years, So if you would ask me
that question two and a half years ago, I didn't
need to spend money on ads. My shit was just popping,
like every time I posted something to me.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
But I also feel like you were put I feel
like it's important to just throw as many shots.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Obviously quality shots, but you got shot volume quality. Yeah,
you gotta find the nexus of volume quality. Yeah. But
you know, listen, when the world was different, I'll just
say I was able to put up anything. Everything I
put up was a hit. Everything I put up was
a hit two mil, one mil. A bad post was
like five hundred k, seven hundred k. But I didn't
need I was like, why would I run ads? My

(20:12):
shit's getting for sure. I'm getting twenty million, ten million,
four million last couple of years for a variety of reasons.
I think the apps have dried up. And now it
leads you to wonder if people like Larussell are showing
you a blueprint I don't know. I had to, I'd
have to try it myself. I have put you know,
like when I see a post that gets a mill

(20:34):
on its own, Yeah, maybe I'll throw one hundred bucks
at it, one hundred and fifty bucks at it. But
the amount of money that Larussell was saying he throws
at it, he put Yeah, it really made me think like,
oh shit, maybe I'm not spending enough money to market
this shit.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
So you are an artist who is of Palestinian and
Lebanese descent, the last two years happens, Yeah, you're very
vocal about what's going on. Do you notice any sort
of industry or algorithmic downside, Yeah, for sure, everywhere everywhere.

(21:17):
You know, at this point it's not a shadow man.
Just remove the word shadow right, right, because we're seeing it,
especially on apps like that are now owned by the
Ellison bros. Right, Like I saw TikTok.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
From you, and you see these viral clips of these
let's just call them lobbyists who are saying, if you
say anything critical of Israel, we will monitor you. We
have AI tracking you, we will go after you, we
have people, we have watchdogs going. Well, there's like the
dude who owns the Patriots says he has a fucking

(21:52):
center inside at the State. Yeah, that's insane, And there's
like and then the ad l's crazy. Well, so here's
the thing, right, Like I said, it's not a shadow
band anymore, no telling you what they're doing. They're telling you,
they're telling us what it's suppressious.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
It's the biggest crazy outwards suppression of free speech we've
ever seen.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah, I mean people used to think I could tell,
even maybe people in my circle used to think that
I was maybe a bit paranoid about like why my
shit wasn't hidden, right, right, And I could take accountability
like there is a percentage of the reason why my
ship's not hidden because over the last couple of years,

(22:31):
I just was I was not well mentally. So when
you're not well mentally after everything we've seen, you're not
going to make music that connects the way sun and
moon or leave me or free me did like I
had to, I would there's some accountability for yourself, of course, dude, Yeah,
my creative self was not there, like, so I'm going
to just start with that because I had a paradigm

(22:51):
shift this year where I said I got to even
though I know they're suppressing me, even though I know
they're banning me, even though I know they're watching me.
I will never break out of it. If I'm constantly
saying it's them, it's them, it's them. I got to
just fucking create something so damn good that they can't.
It's unfunck Withavable, it's undeniable, Like I have to make
a song at this point that just breaks through to

(23:15):
the point that they just have to kind of be like, well,
fuck it, you know, do you be?

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Cause I was thinking like there was this period of
time where it felt like people kind of saw what
was going on, but everyone was like super super pussy
to say anything.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
Not anymore. Yeah, yeah, but I feel like I would say, like,
would you say, like, it's probably been about a year
and oh probably it's probably like.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
A year and a half where I feel like people
are like, yeah, nah, free Palestine's cool now.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
I just I just feel like we're in this like
space where when the artists are so big that are
saying these things and you have guys like the Weekend
donating money where he's donating money and like obviously his
team's got their background and yeah, of course, it's like
you get to a point.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
Where it's like.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
I just the proper I guess you know there the
is it propaganda? Would that be the ship that like
gets fleshed out, that's artificial?

Speaker 1 (24:17):
The information misinformation? There's fucking scripts that get sent Oh yeah,
oh yeah, yeah, there's prompts some ship. Yeah but when
did you initially?

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Because when because obviously when you speak out about what's
going on, this is the thing that you and your
people have been dealing with for years. Yeah, this has
been an issue that is weighed on you know, people
from the Middle East, from Palestine for so long. Do
you feel like, uh, it doesn't feel like there's any hope,

(24:49):
especially right now.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
I don't think Palestinians ever lose hope. That's the one
thing I will tell you. Even in the darkest, even
in the most evil, even in the most disparaging moments,
the one thing you'll see, which which I think we
have seen thanks to social media, is the hope of
the people in Gaza in Palestine. If they hold on

(25:10):
to their hope, it tells a dude like me and
the diaspora, what the fuck business do I have giving up?
You know what business do any of us here have
giving up if there's people still there in Gaza, Like
I saw a video the other day where amongst the rubble,
the entire city flattened, there was this like one hundred
yards long table for them to break their fast for Ramadan, Right,

(25:30):
so they just had an if thot in amidst a
destroyed city. If they have that kind of constitution about themselves,
where they're like, Okay, you have completely destroyed our home
and yet among the destruction, we're going to praise God
and be steadfast. It's crazy and that and listen. But

(25:53):
that's why they are doing what they're doing, because Palestinians
are unbreakable. That's the thing that they're not normal, they are.
There is something about Palestine is especially in Palestine, that
is a bit superhuman. They have a they have this unbreakability,

(26:16):
and I think for the oppressor it's especially irksome because
how much more can you do? You've flattened entire cities,
You've killed hundreds of thousand reb What they're doing in
the West Bank, it's crazy that. Like I obviously, whether
it's the Epstein files or the Iranian war.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Like the football has been thrown around so much that
like we don't even talk about what's happening in Gaza,
yeah every day, or even Lebanon, yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Or the West Bank or Yemen or it's death by
a million stabs. Right. It's like, if that's one thing
I learned early in this last couple of years, is
there's something quite profound about the ability of the oppressor
to numb you by just doing all this evil all

(27:01):
at once, that you almost can't even properly grieve any
of it because it's not stopping its ongoing. But what
I will say is because you brought up the Epstein files,
I saw a post the other day that the searches
of the Epstein files ever since this, Yeah, and that's
not and I think we need to put that that

(27:23):
is on accident, that is not. The Epstein files was
the talk of the world. Look, they were the ward
of launches.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
The night the war launchers they deleted like forty five
thousand files.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, they get forced to put him back in. And
then while we're bombing the ship out of nothing to us, yep,
you start seeing, oh Trump might have raped the girl
with Jeffrey Epstein. Ye, yeah, and no, how was that nothing?
But this is crazy. But the sad thing is it's

(27:55):
it's the ability for Trump to obfuscate Epstein visibility with
the war and Iran. Is the same tactic used to
obfuscate what's happening in the West Bank. Like, no one's
talking about all these settlers running, running rampant, murdering kids

(28:15):
and burning homes and because taking killing people's crops, killing people,
stealing their their their goats and their olive trees. And
this is not worthy of talking about on the internet,
because it takes a back seat to Gaza, right, they

(28:36):
both deserve to be right.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Like the West I mean, obviously the West Banks a
lot more people are aware of what's going on there
because of the attention that the Gaza situation, but it's
still every day people in the West Bank are And
you're like, yo, there's people who can't even walk to
see their family.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah, no, they can't walk on streets. The West Bank
is living. People in the West Bank are living through hell.
And yet because Gaza is happening at the same time,
because the genocide is happening at the same time, those
in the West Bank, it's almost like they don't get
proper attention. And it's the same, But it's the same

(29:15):
tactic with the Epstein Files and Iran. It's if you
can do so many horrific things all at the same time,
there's no way that the people can properly spotlight most
of it.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Well, I think it's too It's like when you think
about the selective humanity that so many of these fucking
pussies have, where it's like, hey man, you were against
like America in the fifties, right because there was like
different waterfountains.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
But you're cool with that in the West Bank. You
understand that's happening at like a worst level. Yeah, you're cool.
You're cool with that in the occupied territory what Yeah,
I mean it's like there's whole streets that Palestinians can't walk,
they cannot walk down. Yeah, I saw. Like there's even
like if you need to get somewhere, there's like people
who have to like go over the roofs to get
there because they can't walk on the street in certain
to see certain family members. It is I think you

(30:04):
drew the perfect parallel, right when people look at Jim
Crow America, they have no.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Black eye on American history. Yeah, but it's happening right now,
and it's a Western, I supposedly Western ideological country.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
It's an American ally right ally to nobody. Well, so
you know, it's just, uh yeah, it's one of those
things where I do to take it back to your
original question of hope, I don't lose hope. I don't
lose hope. Palestinians don't lose hope. Lebanese don't lose hope.
I don't think any any survivors. I don't think any

(30:42):
of these I don't think anybody that has gone through
what they've gone through in Palestine and Lebanon, Yemen, Sudan, Congo,
I don't think any of them lose hope. But that
you know, at the same time, it may take a

(31:02):
long time. It may take a long time.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
I feel like there's just like this weird like the
Trump presidency is so wildly dark that I because I
I did not vote for Joe Biden. I voted for
for Jill Stein because I couldn't fuck with Biden or
not Biden, rather Kamala because neither me neither she's fucking
op you know what I'm saying, respectfully, but respectfully, this

(31:27):
Trump thing has gotten to a place that I don't
think anyone saw the level of.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
Because you know, his first four years were crazy, but
like here, they were a bit more like satirical. They were.
They were more satirically crazy as opposed to being like
legitimately fucking crazy.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yes, like in his first four years he didn't start
any new wars. He did smoke that Iranian general in
Iraq like out of nowhere.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yeah. Well, domestically his first four years were a nightmare
for sure, but but out in the world he was
a bit quieter his four years. So and you know,
I have a kid who's of draft age, so I'm like, yo,
it felt like the Democrats were like driving us to
World War three. Yeah, yeah, And like obviously hindsight's twenty

(32:09):
twenty of course, but if you put yourself into where
the political landscape was in twenty twenty four, we have
wars going on, yeah, JENNI site going on. I mean,
but at the end of the day, Democrat, Republican, they're
all voting.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Listen to these motherfuckers just voted against the war resolution
shit to talk about it, So they're all full of shit.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah, when you got guys like John Fetterman that are Democrats.
To me, a Democrat doesn't mean Chuck Schumer. Yeah, democrat
doesn't mean shit Anymore's the worst. All I care about
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Speaker 1 (34:00):
Ladies and gents and the ETCeteras. Got to show love
to the ETCeteras. We like all the stripes on the flag.
There are odd socks dot com. Man much love to
my brother's over there. On the dark side thing, I
was just.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Gonna I wanted to get to let's get darker with
There's just so much shit going on that like should
be the biggest story in the world. The fact that
like Jared Kushner and this border piece bullshit is essentially
they're having like you know, uh, conference rooms at the
Hyatt meetings trying to get investors into Gaza.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, I mean they're not they're not. They're not hiding it. Anymore.
They're not Listen, the monsters are in plain sight and
they don't feel like they have to hide it anymore.
And I think the last few years sadly they they
kind of decided, like what happens if we just expose ourselves,
Well that's one of these people do enough, and we haven't.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
If you're Phoebe dat Yahoo and you are the extreme
side of the Israeli government and the extreme side of Zionism,
I feel like you kind of the jigs up because
I feel like this is going to be the first
midterm where if you take a pac money, it's like
your death wish. On the left, well hopefully hopefully and

(35:06):
maybe even on the right for something.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah, I think hopefully over time people will realize I
don't want to vote for an A pack candidate, but also, uh,
it goes beyond a pack, Like we just need campaign
financial reform in gine like we can just sends United
as a joke. We can't exactly, we cannot be left
with special option between the A pack candidate or or

(35:30):
the big arm of candidate or the big gambling candidates. Correct,
you know, like we we just need to start having
America will be fucked. Until our political system is safe.
We need a hard reset, man, a hard reset on
how campaign finance works, hard reset on how how voting works. Yeah,

(35:51):
and it's like the like I tell people this all
the time, It's like America genuinely has nothing to offer
the world but movies, music, and weapons. This is our
fucking export. We export culture and weapons. And I guess AI,

(36:11):
you know what I'm saying, Like, I don't even get
me started on AI. Oh AI, shit's crazy. That's why
they're fucking Iranian school got bombed. AI is is. I'll
gladly always stand Tanto's down on fuck AI. That's just
how I feel. It's the worst I think AI as
you see it in music is a cancer to music.

(36:32):
And look, there's always gonna be people, and even some
of my own friends will be like, but dude, AI
can be used for good, just like anything AI can
be when used properly, sure when if hypothetically, if it
could be used only in the right ways. But one
of the chicks from Open AI resigned yesterday. Did you
see that I did not.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
She resigned because she said she could not in good
faith stick around because she doesn't believe in AI. Having
essentially giving AI the right to decide who lives and
dies entially disgusting.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
I mean you look, I mean we've seen enough movies
growing up. Yeah, it's like they but they all desancitized
for reason exactly. Maybe I thought at first those movies
were meant to warn us, Maybe it was meant to
condition us, like no, no, no, it's okay. That's like the
alien shit, No one cares if alien. If a fucking
alien came down tomorrow'd be the tenth biggest thing going on,
the hundred percent, it'd be like, well, now, like you know,

(37:30):
the alien, but Epsteine files Iran. But at the end
of the day, what I've what I've come to see
with AI is this, sure, are there plausible good uses
for AI? Why not? In theory, who runs it, where
does the money go? Who controls it? Where else are

(37:50):
they using it? Are the same people that own it
and run it and control it using it to murder? Yes,
girls in Iran or or they've a lot of those
target sites in Gaza. We're all hundred percent a so so,
so you just have to ask yourself, uh, what are
the opportunity costs? And in my opinion, the opportunity costs
are way too high with a I and I just
don't fuck with it. Way too high. Yeah, they and

(38:13):
everybody who's behind these companies, they all feel like the
most evil people. It's a bunch of super villains. Dude,
it's all like evil fucking nerds.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Deil and the dude who runs what's the bru's name,
who runs Palanteer, who looks like he's just fucking twacked
all the time. These guys are like they're the bad
guys in the Incredibles.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
Yeah, they're they're they're they're they're evil, evil small men,
and they control our government. Yeah they're fucking yeah. It's
it's hard, man. When I open Next every day, I'm
just like, that's why we just make happy music.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Do you find it to be your big theory, because
like obviously you do make happy music. You make like
like your music is it feels like intentionally positive of
course in the world that especially yours, the world needs it,
you know. Do you feel like like a mission to
make sure, like course the message is always positive?

Speaker 1 (39:01):
My duty? I mean, I went really hard as an
activist the last few years, and I think in many
ways my activism was a positive. But I've come to
realize that my greatest gift that I have to give
is to contribute into the world light through music. I

(39:25):
know that sounds cliche, but like I have a really
strong gift to give the world joy and love and
happiness and freedom and healing and music. That is what
I'm meant to do. I know it. I've always known it.
I've known that since I was a summer camp counsel,
Like that's what I do in a very special way.
So yeah, I mean, of course, I mean there are
people who have shown me, even friends of mine who
survived from the genocide that told me, like, you know,

(39:47):
they'll listen to this song or that song or oh
our doctors in Gaza the say, yeah, well put on
your songs to keep our spirits up. So of course
I always know that one of my greatest responsibilities on
this planet is to, you know, bring music into the
world that contributes light.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, would you say like influence wise, because your music
is very particular to you. I feel like it's a
unique sound. You kind of sometimes you're rapping and you're singing. Yeah,
it's hard to find a lot of comparison. Is there
any any sort of you know, inspiration you pull from musically.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
Yeah, of course a lot of older artists. I think
I'm very inspired by a lot of seventies artists. Bill, Yeah,
seventies is the greatest era of music, without doubt the best.
I put up a post on this on ig the
other day and it sparked a lot of debate. But
I will stand Tanto's down. The seventies is the greatest
era of music. Is the golden era of music. You
got Bill Withers, you got James Taylor, you got Stevie Wonder,

(40:40):
you got Jim croche he got the Eagles, you got
the Beg's, you got Fleetwood Mac, You've got Skinnered. Come on,
I mean, can you think of an era greater than
the seventies? I personally, the seventies fucks man. The seventies
fucks hard, hard, and and some of my greatest inspirations
are from the seventies. You know, whether that be Like

(41:00):
I said, Bill Withers, Jim Crochey, James Taylor.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
I think the seventies was so fire and like, listen,
I'm gonna get hell for this. I think the eighties.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
The worst era of music, the worst era of music.
My Mom's jamming out, throwing on God, this ship is trash.
Now there's some shit in the of course there's J Prince.
A lot of it was so just cookie cutter bullshit.
I'm like, the seventies was so wrong. Yeah, there was Listen,

(41:30):
there was the right balance of technology in the world
in the sense right by the eighties they had too
much tech. They had no idea what the fuck to
do with it. There's a lot of fun around, a
lot of air spray. Yeah, So of course they had
MJ they had prints. There's some of the greatest movie
of all time for sureties.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
But in totality, when you if you just put on
like the best of the eighties, you'd be like.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
Compared to the seventies, bro come on, seventies right, and
nineties probably in early two thousands. I love the nineties.
Three of the best decades of music of the last Yeah,
my favorite decades the nineties just because Yeah, but seventies
is right there. I'll put the seventies a the top for me.
If I had to pick a top five, it will
go seventies at the top and nineties to two, and

(42:10):
then we'll work our way down.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
So like a hip hop wise. Were you a big
hip hop kid at all? So, like, what were you
listening to a crazy range of hip hop? Everything from
shit I would find on dat pith. Uh Yeah, like
King Los Immortal Technique.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Shouts to Mortal Tech, Man, we need an Immortal Tech
of twenty twenty six. Yeah, he's still around and doing
his thing.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
Man, we need a young I've been saying this, shit,
who's our Immortal Tech?

Speaker 1 (42:41):
Like, if they're kids in high school right now, they
need their own fucking version of a Mortal Tech. I
think there's some versions. I'd have to think about it
before I answered that. I think there's some people. But
but yeah, uh tech King Los. But on a more
mainstream level, like I grew up listening to a lot
of Fifty, a lot of Kanye, a lot of t I,

(43:05):
a lot a lot of like Atmosphere, Lauren Hill Shop
with Slug and ant Man. Yeah who else did I
listen to? A lot Loope? Yeah? I think I think
I bounced around a lot, but it wasn't Yeah, I
mean hip hop was a big part of it, but
it wasn't just hip hop. The game I drove, I

(43:27):
drove to and from school listening to a lot at
walle Wal.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
You say you have so you do a summer camp thing.
You say you have a summer camp in Phoenix. Do
you have these in different places? No, it's just in Phoenix.
I uh so used to be a summer camp. Yeah, counselor.
I worked at a church camp growing up.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Okay, so you'd be like, summertime, would you play the guitar?
We'd be around a campfire activity makingmores, like like in
the movies. Yeah, like in the movies, man, but just
like way more wholesome. Uh. I grew up at church camp.
That's where I like, that's where I found myself. Now
in Phoenix, my best friend Jason created a summer camp

(44:03):
for first generation college kids, you know, kids that are
trying to get a lot of the kids in the
Maryville community that are many of many of whom are Marryvale,
the Trenches. Yeah, many of whom are first generation Mexican Americans,
first first ones in their family to go to college.
And it's a college access camp. So Jason created this camp,
and I've done what I can to help and we

(44:24):
and we basically the work is to help these kids
become you know, generational trendsetters. So now their family, they
won't be the first one in their family to go
to college, but just the first of many of many.
And so yeah, I think working with kids and working
in summer camps is my greatest joy. Yeah, just giving back. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Did you do you feel like you got a lot
of that from from watching how your dad would help
people as a lawyer.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Yeah, I think subconsciously for sure. I grew up in
a house of activists and and givers and philanthropists, and
a lot of it just comes from my faith. Like
I'm a believer. I'm a believer in in doing good
for other people. I'm a believer in in seeing God
and others. I'm a believer in and loving your neighbor.

(45:13):
And you know, sometimes that can take place within the
context of something religious, like my church camp that I
grew up, But the church, the camp we do in
Phoenix is not religious, but it's that to me. It's
still a still in many ways of ministry. If you will,
you're ministering to other people. My music, if you ask me,
is a ministry. You know. Do I make it religious? No?
I keep it agnostic because I don't want people to

(45:34):
feel like it's not inclusive. I want anybody, whether they're
religious or not, to hear my music and feel drawn
to it. But I do look at my music as
a way of trying to invite people into something divine,
which is love, which is light, which is healing, which
is joy. There's a guy named James Tallerico who just
won in Texas, Texas. He had his reason why he
because he's very, very Christian. Yeah, but he the right kind.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
His approach to why you should keep school and church
separate is similar. It's like, we don't want to make
anyone feel like school isn't for them.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Correct, like correct? Correct.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
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Speaker 1 (47:07):
Make sure you call RAFFI right now. Six two three
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three eight eight four three three three call RAFFI. How
do you feel about selective Christianity if it's a big
thing right now, my boy, you just open up a
can of worms. It feels like not all Christianity is
the same. It just feels like it could be like
the bumper sticker for twenty twenty five selective Christianity twenty

(47:30):
twenty five. Yeah, listen, I'm gonna say something that would
probably give me in a hot hot water on the internet.
But I really don't care. I'm an Orthodox Christian, right,
a Christian from Palestine. Christianity obviously started in Palestine. Orthodox
Christianity is the original church, right. And then you know,
we learned about this in school, the schism between the
Orthodox and the Catholic, like that these are. There was

(47:52):
one church with five patriarchs. Then the Patriarch of Rome
decides they're going to go on their own way, and
that's when there became Orthodox and Catholic right. And then
from Catholic there's become a million offshoots right, Protestant, Lutheran right.
And then come to America and you got Baptist, you
got Evangelical, you got whatever, so on and so forth.
What I would say is, and I don't mean this

(48:15):
to judge anybody. I don't I don't hold judgment in
my heart. But it's pretty obvious when you see some
Christianities are really just a brand for an underlying movement.
And sometimes that movement is Christian nationalism or white nationalism

(48:35):
or k considered themselves exactly and so, and it's not
to say that there can't be Christianity in America. That
doesn't that is not pure like there is you know,
you know I'm Orthodox. I'm an Orthodox Christian. But of
course there are other Christian churches doing God's work, But

(48:58):
there are also a lot of other Christianstian churches doing
the devil's work. And there's a lot of Christian churches
doing some really dirty, nasty, evil, racist shit. And to me,
as a Christian, you know, it sickens me because that's
not Christianity. And you know, I've always said it to
my friends. Some of these churches, it's like if if

(49:19):
Christianity was a certain teaching, right, just like math might
be a certain teaching. One plus one is two. Some
of these churches have gone from one plus one is
two to one, plus one is three to one, pust
one is seven to one, pust one is twenty two. Right,
and you start changing these rules, it's no longer Christianity.
When love for your neighbor is not a rule in

(49:39):
your church, that's not Christianity. When compassion and forgiveness and basically,
the more a church starts to the more a church
stops reflecting Christ, that's not a Christian church. To me.
The more I look at a church and I don't
see Jesus anywhere, to me, I don't see this as Christianity.

(50:00):
I say that as an orthodox Christian and I stand
on that. And you know, I think most real Christians
would affirm that.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
You're working on a tour coming up? Yeah, uh, you
already have it routed or what? Yeah, the routing is
pretty much done. When is it kicking off?

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Start? Yeah, it'll start in late August and we'll go
through September.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
You mentioned the Philippines earlier. Is there a market that
is more random than the Philippines that just loves what
you're doing that You're like, Hey.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
I got a popular Philippines who rocks with me. Malaysia, Malaysias,
Malaysius fucking with me. Yeah, Indonesia's fucking with me, all
the great places. Yeah. South Africa's fucking with me. I
haven't been to South Africa. Australia is fucking with me.
Have you been in Australia? I have it. Did a
little tour there, was it cool? That was awesome? Yeah?
You know, you know who else is randomly fucking with me?

(50:48):
I get whenever I look at my Spotify data and
I and I and I get so like interested, like
of which countries out of the blue funk with me, like,
there's some islands that fuck with me. Portugal folks with fire. Yeah,
but I've been to a lot of these places on
tour because I'm a firm believe resident independent artist. When
when a country raises their hand and says, hey goes

(51:08):
to your music, you got to go to them. And
I say that as a hypocrite because I've never gone
to the Philippines yet. I need to know, you got
to go, man. I know, I know, I know, I know,
I know. I know the Philippines all for some reason
everyone in my life is Filipino me too. They have
really great food, great food, great voice is great. Solier.
Just don't accidentally bring weed there because oh it's a problem.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Well, they're like they'll just like the jails there. I've
watched a documentary about the jails there. They don't fuck around.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
It's its like Britney grinder shit.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
Not maybe not as bad because I think it's is
it Indonesia and Malaysia where like you're like, if you
bring drugs into these it's.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
One of them, You're sure.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
But Philippines they're just like everyone lives on top of
each other and these like jails and like they theyrest
know this. Yeah, they don't play about weed. But Philippines
is the vibe. Grateful, great great food, great people. My
producer and music director is Filipino.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Filipinos great DJs, best DJs, and best breakdancer. Some of
the first people to ever show me love and really
help me like get exposed in the in the music world.
Like Joe koy Joy is the reason why I got
a Kimmel. You know, he's the one that hooked that up.
And uh, you know the artist j Rowa that I
made a song with the Sun and Moon remix with

(52:23):
that played a huge role in the song popping off.
You've been all over the country. What's your favorite food
city in the US? Oh? Stop it favorite food city
in the US. I mean, it's so cliche, but it's
New York. But if we take New York out of
the equation, favorite food city in the in the US

(52:46):
would be and I'm going to be biased here, but
I think it's d C. D C. Really yeah, I
think it's DC. People don't realize this. DC has such
a rich fusion of immigration. Best. The first time I
ever had a falafel was in Washington. Really, it was
a Georgia's on M Street.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
I don't know where it was at, but I had
a falafel like little sandwich and it was the first
time I ever transport.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
There's a Michelin Star Palestinian restaurant in DC called elb
run By Chef Raffidi. I think it's the only Michelin
Star Palestini restaurant in the country. Bro, And next time
I go to DC, I'll take you. Please, just remind
me this is the best dinner I've ever eaten outside
of my own home. It was insane the stuff they're
doing at Lby and they have multiple different branches of

(53:34):
their their operation, but it's it's the best food I've
ever eaten out.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Slept On and not talked about enough. I don't know
if it's slept On. I think my vote just because
you can get high level everything.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Okay, Las Vegas, Oh wow, Okay, I've only been there once.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Las Vegas has every pocket. They got to the fanciest
version of everything town. They got a Filipino town, they
got a Hawaii they got Hawaii pocket. Anything you needed
in the like, wherever you're from in the world, there
is a high level version of in Vegas.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
In Las Vegas. I only did one show there and
I didn't get to eat. But let me give you
a top five food cities. He didn't. That's this all right,
We're gonna go New York. I'm gonna get a lot
of hate for this. We're gonna go to d C.
D C. Three, We're gonna go. I'll give it to
Los Angeles. Now Leade's got heat. Man, it's fine. It's fine.
It's cliche, but I fine. Now we got to get
a little bit more niche. Four, I'm gonna give it

(54:33):
to Chicago, Try Town. And in five i'm gonna give
it to Seattle. Seattle a lot of culture in Seatatle's
got a lot of good Asian Foodah, lot of good
Asian food. Yeah. I think it depending on your taste,
because like, if you love Asian food, Vancouver, Seattle, the
whole Northwest is it. It's banging, banging, it's banging, and

(54:57):
Seattle just has like really good vibes. I love Seattle,
but if you like barbecue, you might say, fucking yeah,
Austin or Carolina or something that I probably left out.
Sustin's got some shit, honorable mention. Maybe I put Austin.
Austin's up there. Yeah, sure, all right, So tours coming,
music coming? Uh yeah, yeah, we're dropping songs every month.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
What's your strategy there? Is it like you got to
make sure you don't go too long without giving something
out or is it just yeah?

Speaker 1 (55:24):
I mean I think Look, Russ always talks about like
if you're not dropping a song once a month, like
how bad do you really want it? As an independent artist?
That resonates with me. I was in album mode the
last three years, just focusing on album, album, album. Right
now I'm liberated from that. I don't want to think
about an album until my heart tells me it's time
for an album. So it's just single, single, single, single, single.

(55:45):
I popped off of singles, yeah, for sure. People don't realize.
Like Sun and Moon, I followed that up with like
six singles, and so I know what the blueprint is.
So right now it's just me creating as many good songs.
That's why I'm out here in La. I've been here
for three weeks and we're just in the studio relentlessly. Uh.
And collaboration is key right now. Like I just made

(56:06):
a song with l Russell that was beautiful and now
I'm gonna get in the studio with some of my
other favorite artists. He had a freestyle that they tried
to suppress, which I mean which one was that he
went to, Uh, you could bleep it out, but he
went to the La Leakers and he talked about Palestine
A hopefully I didn't want to put it out. I
didn't put it out. What the fuck?

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Yeah that's crazy. Yeah you could take that out, but yeah,
just incredible told him he couldn'tut it out because Jess
Renol's Jewish.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
Oh there you go, super zio bro. Yeah, there's as
They're not gonna let that hit flyt to Russell down,
call him out on Twitter. And then he put it
out on his own ship. Oh wow, so the Russell
put it out. Yeah, he ended up. He ended up
putting it out, putting the free like shooting a video
in the bait. Yeah, let me give l Russell his
flowers real quick. He stands ten To's down with the people. Yeah,

(56:52):
and it's not just it's not just his people, it's
not just Palestine. He stands ten Tento's down with the people,
the people in general. You got to go to his house.
People in Vallejo. Go see the pergola. We've been a
couple of times. That's where we made the song. Oh
you win. Yeah, it's so, isn't it crazy? Bro? He
has a venue in his backyard and then.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Like mom and dad are running the march in the
garage and it so probably showed you.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
As he had he had a chef there. The moment
I got there, the dude came out with a bowl
of chicken noodle soup. I needed that fire Yeah, so
fire shots, Russell, Sun and Moon platinum gold. You know
it probably is. I just haven't gotten any any plaque.
You have to like, uh, what do I got? I don't.
I don't. You have to do something with our I
A to get it certified. But you should do that, dude.
The song has like over five hundred million streams. Definitely

(57:39):
it's at least gold. But that's a cross, right, not
just Spotify. It's good. It's gold at least, right, Go
get a plaque, But you gotta put something to black people.
Hit me up. I want a plaque. No, you got
to hit them. I gotta hit them up. That's how
it works. They're not going to do you any fucking now.
And I gotta pay that. It's expensive, right, these are expensive.
Oh no, you have to buy the plaque, but our
I a A there's a way to get your record it.

(58:00):
I don't know how it works. But then you got
to spend like thousands on the plaque, right.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
I didn't buy any of these, but I think they're
between like seven hundred and like two grand, depending on.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
I'll get my plaque when the time is right. You
deserve it. I do deserve it. You are in that
shit anyway. Well, I appreciate you pulling up and looking
forward to seeing you on the road. Man. Thank you
for taking the time to hang out. Brother. Of course,
by the said show there it is much love fire.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
Hey, we got to wrap up this interview, another one
presented by Hardan Baby, you already know what it is.
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(58:48):
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