#644 - LaRussell on Heaven-Sent Controversy, “Selling Out” to Jay-Z & Roc Nation, Russ, Lil Wayne & More

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, you're here with L Russell team with Bootleg Cavante.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We here on the podcast. Yalla what I mean Yo?

Speaker 3 (00:07):
Before we get into the interview, man, I want to
give a shouts to all my radio stations all across
the country who have the Bootleg cav Show as an
official affiliate. Man, we're on the radio in about one
hundred cities nationwide every day. Want to give a shout
out to Real ninety two three in La. Shout out
to the Beat in Miami, Shout out to Wild ninety
four one in Tampa, shout out to Hot ninety eight three,
and Tucson Power ninety eight three in Phoenix. We are

(00:30):
one O two nine. Importantly, we're all over the country,
so you could tap in with that radio show. If
you want to know for on in your city, just
go to Bootleg cab dot com. The fullest of cities
is there. You might hear us. Let's get into the interview, yo,
Bootleg cap podcast. We got a special guest in here.
He's in La doing what he does, man, just conquering

(00:53):
the world. Yo. L Russell is in the building.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm back at it.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
You are back. You were kind of back of like
last year when Malachi came and wrapped as support. Yeah,
but we did not do an interview, so it's been
it's been a minute since we've done interview. It's been
a couple of years.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah. I got to just witness him then.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah. It was crazy favorite and he's still here. Shots
to Malachi. It was my favorite freestyle last year. Wow.
Yeah yeah he was number one.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Wow. Yeah he deserves that.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
So how's your week been? Has it been good?

Speaker 1 (01:27):
It's been incredible, honestly, you know, I've been really grinding
and moving and getting to see much scale.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
But you know, also, is your engineer in the room.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
No, Okay, I gotta ask, I gotta ask, I gotta no, Yo,
let's talk. Let's just get that ship out of there. Okay.
So this clip comes out, you post something on Twitter,
and you know what's funny is like I had clicked
on it and I like, like when you your caption
was like my engineer said I shouldn't drop this. Like

(01:59):
I listened to like maybe the first like five or
six seconds of it, and I was like, oh, people
are I was like whatever, it's just like some of
Russell shit, like talking about whatever's going on, you know, whatever,
And then I just saw like it just kept getting
the outrage, and I was like, wait, let me rewatch
this and make sure I'm did I miss. I was like, oh,
so you released a kind of a response to the

(02:21):
virality and a more context of the song today. I
believe your thoughts on just I guess you would. A
lot of people are. I wouldn't say they're offended as
much as I would say a lot of people for
whatever reason, it feels like are off put by the

(02:42):
heaven scent yeah song.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
I think I think people mistake what I'm saying for
me like being complicit, right, Like they think it was
me showing support, but they didn't think it was me
showing support to Martin Malcolm and Kanye, who I also mentioned.
They just think it was me showing support to him,
you know, and being complicit in his behavior. And that's
like the furthest thing from the truth, you know, any
nigga who know me. I think I think niggas like

(03:07):
Trump and Epstein deserve the worst for sure, you know.
But it's also like the art and writing that song.
It's like niggas who do this know when you start writing,
like words come to you, you know, this isn't like
an until no one sits down like I'm gonna write
about Epstein. It's just like what comes to you. And
then that realization was like, Damn, God made a nigga

(03:29):
like Martin Luther King who did so much and changed
the world, and he also created a nigga like Epstein,
who was like the lowest of the low, you know,
and they come from the same source. And it was
just a realization to me, and like, Damn, you really
like free will you know?

Speaker 3 (03:48):
You could?

Speaker 1 (03:49):
You could go either way in in this world. And
it's not just them, you know, Like that's why I
believe this outrage is fake because niggas we we know
niggas who murderers or killers and we like freedom. We
know niggas who pimping and sex trafficking and we like freedom.
Niggas uncles and they Daddy's gotten and it's like freedom right,

(04:09):
you know. But me saying Damn God made me and
he made this sick ass nigga is a problem. That's
not me being complicit. That's me just having the realization.
They're like, bro, you really gotta choose what you're gonna
do with your life and what path you gonna lead.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
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Speaker 2 (04:31):
Man.

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(04:54):
code Bootleg. Shout out to Ease man. Go use that
promo code and get thirty percent off. Right now, I think,
I think, I mean, would you just pointed out as true,
like the stuff that we glorify is interesting, and the
things we choose to get outraged by it's it's very interesting.
I think that your explanation explained it better than I

(05:19):
think the video gave initially, if that makes sense, because
I feel like if someone was like, not necessary, because
I know you and I know what you I mean.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Also, I'm not.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
People have every right to feel however they feel, because
there's even people who are like I understand what he's
trying to say, it's just why say it? But it's art, right, Yeah,
so it's like, well, fuck off, like you don't have
to like it. At the same time, like I was like,
I know this full Like this is the same guy
who a radio station in Los Angeles wouldn't release a

(05:53):
fright style of his because he was talking about free Palestine, right,
you know what I mean, Like I know where this
guy's heart is, and like I understood what you were saying, like.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
For you like it.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
To me, it seemed like and let me know what
your thoughts are. Ever since this rock Nation thing happened,
I've never seen people nitpick nothing more in my fucking
life than man.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
And you know, it's really just like.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
I think a lot of this was really beautiful and
eye opening for me because it showed me a lot
of people who spent like waiting, like kind of sitting
like they had this and and it was like, oh,
this is a moment you know, in complete misunderstanding, Like
you know, even in the verse that's posted, like I say,
I'm not perfect. It neither is the president. What's guiltier
than a nigga hide and evidence? I'm talking about.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
Them, no shit, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Even the Devil was having sent you know, like this
is the realization of like damn like that. That's not
a that's not complicity. That's just like this is the
real world. What's guiltier than a nigga hide and EVI did?
That's me saying these nigga's guilty.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
You feel me?

Speaker 1 (07:01):
But I think it was it was an opportunity for
people who just like been sitting on it and waiting
to just get they get they strike at it.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yeah, I've seen a lot of other rappers, uh who
are you know have certain levels of success kind of
chime in and I'm just like it's like I think, man,
when it comes to this shit, Like I think art
is subjective now whether or not people people can say
I don't like the art, that's fine. Yeah, Like you

(07:31):
know what, I didn't like the way he communicated that
maybe feel some type of way, and you could even
think that you're wrong.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
You could you could.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
Be like I don't agree with him, and I don't
you know, I don't like Lil Russell because of this.
But to me, there was like all get opportunistic, like reasoned,
like if you didn't already get in on, like well
he said this about a little Wayne yeah, or you know,
or what he said fuck fuck rock Nation and now
he's with Rockney. It's it's like okay now.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Even to get to a point where like people think
they could tell an artist what they can and can't write,
like I can get in the studio and the Mexican
come down to me and it's like, this is what
I'm speaking about, this is what came to me. And
they'll be like, well, you can't say that, you can
you know, And it's only a few of us who
actually say things that it's beyond you know, the you know,

(08:21):
if Magic Johnson got a kid for AIDS and all
the broke motherfuckers passed away. You know, it's only so
many who willing to say shit like that. And I
just think it's like it was taking you know, it's
just one of those it's rage bait.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
You know, it was.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
Definitely rage baby. But I also think, like I think,
you you it's showing more of this of the record
today because I feel like if someone just pressed it,
I feel like there's a lot of people who know
who you are, but they might not necessarily be like
overally they see you, like because if you scroll enough
and you're kind of like a hip hop fan, like,
you're gonna see the Russell's face. So I think some

(08:58):
people might have for the first time that's the first
thing they've seen and they were like, what the fuck?

Speaker 2 (09:03):
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 3 (09:05):
Like, and do you think, like when a piece of
content like that reacts the way it does, do you
feel like the juice is worth the squeeze if you will? Like,
because now you have to defend yourself now, like now
people are rubbed the wrong wave.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
I don't you know, I don't have to I get
to right. And that's something I learned with the Wayne
stuff too, is like and ultimately I'm I haven't been
defending myself from people who know me in value what
I do.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
And support me. Right, It's external.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
It's niggas who ain't never support Maybe a few who's like, ah,
I might have played the song, but the people who
like show up for me and buy tickets and actually
support my ecosystem, that know me because they've been on
my shows and been around me and hear me speak
and communicating and know what I do. It's not nothing lost,
you know, I've only lost people who wasn't there anyway,

(09:57):
Like these are new niggas who like, I never liked
this guy, and it's like, well cool.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Like shay, you feel me. It's like we didn't like you. Eat.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
But while you at it, make sure you stop liking
your daddy and your uncle too, because them nigga's weird.
And make sure you stop liking the homie whoill be
sliding and talking. You know, make sure you make sure
we make the outrage extend beyond to hit everybody you
feel right, cause niggas you feel me.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
Yeah, like we support so many people who are morally bankrupt,
oh my god, because it's just fucking convenient.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
It's the list long, the list long. But you know, outraged.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
You know it's funny because like you know, I feel
like you kind of hit it on the head because
anybody who has been fucking with you and with you,
it's like, I mean, I get how people could be yeah,
rubbed the wrong way by that, but I also understand
what you were trying to say. So I didn't even

(11:01):
like I didn't think it was that crazy until like
the next day and I was like.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Neither did we.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
This shit is going.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
You know, it's crazy. Like with me, I had.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
People hitting me. I defend you to people, and I've
told you this before. I feel like for whatever reason,
like behind the scenes, like you have a few haters
who I'm cool with, of course, and they're off in
the bay, but they're like yeah, but you notice it,
like nobody like super big. It's like standing behind the rustle.
And then I swear to God, I swear on everything

(11:32):
I love. It had to have been the same week
or like within a day or two you and jay
Z are together. I said it to my man and
I was like, oh word. I was like, why do
you hate this guy so much?

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Bro? It be self reflective.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
And you know what's crazy about the record, Like when
we made this in the studio, like none of us
seen that as triggering because like they see me right,
like they see all right, I got a called discretion.
That's just like, you know, this shit just dawned down.
This ain't intend It's like this is coming through me
and even we want to go play pickleball and it's
a lady there, older white lady named Katie who owns it,

(12:13):
and she was like, man, I listened to that album
and it was like the most intricate writing, like I
enjoyed every bit of it. No no issue, like people
been sending me the album, like man, this record hit.
It's only the public when it got to it, and
it was like, oh, y'all because y'all, y'all are committed
to misconstruing what I'm saying, like and even people.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Like, well, this is the definition of heaven.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
And it's like, bro, was there anybody that you were
disappointed in how they reacted?

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Not? Really, I don't really have I expectations for low
vibrational niggas, right, you know, I don't at all like
everybody hating that, even the niggas who I thought was
like damn you being in my dms ask for fijis
and you and trying to.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
Get in it. Even though it didn't surprise me.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
It was like, I mean, like your life representative of this,
Like I could tell you a hate nas nigga, you're
not having no motion and no success like you.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
It makes sense. It's aligned.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
You know, while all that's going on, it's niggas who
like really successful, who really do this. Who've been calling
me like, hey, don't worry about none of that. We
know what's up the niggas who really move things and
make things shake, And that's my thing. You know, if
I don't, if I don't have, if I'm not inspired

(13:36):
by you, your opinion is really like minute, you know,
it'll bother you because it's like it's a thousand niggas
coming at you and I'm a nigga. I'm from where
I'm from, so niggas get to jump you. It's like, nigga,
I'm trying to fight, but it's also like I understand deeply, Like, bro,
I'm not I'm not moved by how you live in
your life, So your opinion ain't that valid? The people
who I value their opinion, it ain't.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
It ain't that some hope since this virality is tooken off.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Hell no, Hey, you know, next time I see this nigga,
I feel it's gonna be a smell like nigga. But hey, hey,
you know what's funny as fuck. I was telling the
team at Rock Nation, I'm like, damn, we both we
both share like a like me signing with them got

(14:24):
me a whole bunch of shit that I didn't ast
foe and then them signing me I've been my whole
bunch of shit ain't now. So it's like it's a
mutual share of bullshit that come with it. But it's
also like this is what comes. We're going to this level. Yeah,
new levels, new devils.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
I feel like if you listen to like really ice
cube shit or like listen man, motherfuckers loved Eminem talking
about raping his mom dog. You know what I'm saying, Like,
what are we talking about.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Bro niggas?

Speaker 3 (14:50):
Niggas saying that everybody comes from God? It is not
It's obvious what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Niggas have said and done far worse and still got
support by the entire world.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
For sure, still be showing up for them. I'm still
showing up for him today.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
Fucking females up far and done far worse.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
But I'm the problem because I said, Yeah, God made
this nigga and this nigga, and you could do this
with your life, and you could do that which one
you're gonna become?

Speaker 3 (15:20):
I think it is important to point in general, is
a very real point. It's like we all start at
the same place. Now, mind you. Everyone has different circumstances.
Everyone has different you know. Some people are born into
homes with money or opportunities or but in terms of
your moral compass, right or whatever, you would considered evil
to be. Yeah, not to say that there isn't like

(15:42):
situations that can contribute to you and how you end up.
You know, but we all start as.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
A baby pure, you know. I mean you have to
be taught evil. Yeah, pure.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
You know, every every child that that enters the world
through their parents is heaven sent, every single one. No
parents see the child come out of them. It's like
this isn't a gift from God. You feel me every
single chat and then the world gets a hold of
you and you take your own path and lane.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
And that's what you know.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
A nigga was explaining in the record that niggas don't
get but if you listen to the full song, it's
me literally saying they want me to dance and shout.
You know, nigger it out. But I'm gonna show you
what this nigga about. This nigga about revolution. I don't
just make songs you could dance too. I also make
songs you could think too. The Water ten dollars at

(16:33):
this fest. But the look is five. That's how they
defeat you. Niggas ain't even talking like that, right, Niggas
ain't even talking like that.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah, I mean, listen, man, It's twenty twenty six and
we're about to go to World War three and Israel
is committing genocide number two in Lebanon, and there's still
most rappers haven't spoken out about the first genocide that
they perpetrated.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
But I'm wrong.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
The United States just bombed a school full of young
children and Iran on day one of the war. Can
we be outraged about that?

Speaker 2 (17:12):
No?

Speaker 1 (17:13):
No, no, no, we can't. We can't, No, we can't.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Nope.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Only only about a little black nigga speaking his mind
and sharing his art.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
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(18:08):
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Let's get back to the podcast. So, you know, it's
interesting to me because what I've noticed is like there's

(18:31):
you've been so relentless and this journey of yours that is,
you know, going on five years now. I would say
since I've known you four or five years, but the
journey has been relentless. It has been one with purpose intent,
and it's not overnight, It's not like you this is
all man, It's been a lot of work right for you,

(18:55):
and you've been extremely transparent with your journey, and I
feel like you've gotten to the point where you're instead
of because I feel like everybody at a certain point
in time is like trying to kind of like, oh
I fuck with a Russell. Well, the Russell's showing everybody
how it was done. But you hit the part of

(19:16):
success where all that shit has switched. Yeah, And I
mean kudos to you because not a lot of people
see that level of success where everyone kind of wants
to turn against them or find a reason to turn
against them. Yeah. Would you say that it was the
rock Nation moment because I felt that a little before.

(19:37):
I feel like when you, like, are the independent artist
doing All Star Weekend when motherfuckers who are you know,
got major label deals in your city can't do that?
What like for you? Man, I'm just curious does it
fuck with you to because like we all are like
subconsciously affected by energy, comments, etc. Like, does it bother

(19:58):
you that like you've gotten to this point where like
people are starting to show you more hate, People are
starting to like kind of pick apart, and it pick
you a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Of course, it's bothersome as a human, like you know,
to be sitting in your house at any time and
niggas start throwing rocks at your window.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
It takes a lot of grace to not shoot.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Back, you know, actually after they break a window and
it's like no, I'm saying, figure, it takes a lot
of grace to just be like you know, and and
a lot of times I'm not. But I think about
first they love you, then they hate you, then they
love you again, you know, like that's just the process

(20:40):
and the journey of all this. And I'm grateful for
it because the more hate I've received, the more love
I've been able to give. In the past year, I've
changed more kids lives, more families lives, more homies, lives
I paid rent and water and PG and and school
supplies and take hiss. Like I've I've gotten a lot

(21:01):
of hate, but I've also gotten so much success on
the other end that I've been really able to be impactful.
And I've changed more lives this year than I've changed
my whole life.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
So well, that's been part of your journey the whole
time is like I feel like giving back to the
independent artist community through good company, Like this is something
that's always been something you've been doing. It's not like
you're just like me, me, me, me, Like yeah, like
I've seen you give game to artists, like you should
shoot this or come out to that. You did it
with the homie Jakarta. You were like, come out to
the bay, shoot some shit out here. Like let's get

(21:30):
to the point where you because you know, I texted
you this and I was like, man, it's so crazy
that you get to the point where it is, you know,
you want to talk about being undeniable where I think
I text you this. I was like, yo, to talk
about undeniable, Like you have been no stranger to sharing
your previous experiences with rock Nation in the past, the

(21:53):
deal that they offered you and how bad it was
and you let it. You let it fly on multiple
plot forms about it. So one would think, like, if
you do something like that, you know that you kind
of burn your bridge there with the company. So take
me through how does that situation morph into correct me

(22:19):
if I'm wrong. Jay Z said that you kind of
helped him correct some of the Yeah, the ways of
how they were doing stuff before by spiking out.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah, so what happens.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
What's the genesis of them knocking on the door again?

Speaker 1 (22:34):
I think I think there's two things that could happen.
When you speak out. You could either burn the bridge
or you could build a bridge. And you gain respect
from from like a real nigga, you know, gonna respect.
It's like damn, okay, I gotta go look into more.
And they end up getting a whole new regime like

(22:54):
new team, new staff, new vision, new mission, new alignment,
you know. And when we talked, he's like, you know,
the old way, we were just adopting what we knew.
We came in being like what we knew. But it's like,
all right, well we could at least do a little
better than them, but that was what we knew, you know.
And then when you expand and you realize, like, bro,
I'm not gonna put a nigga through what I went through.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
We need to do it this way, this way.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
And they built a new regime and they tapped in
and it's been year like they tapped in years ago,
and you know, I was just running my race. It's
like I still kind of had that energy towards it,
you know, and as just came and I started making
these records with John and just start growing, you know.
Me and my team is like, man, we spent millions
of our own money. You feel me like, let's find

(23:40):
And that's why we did the Empire deal because I
went in there and I was like, bro, I've been
spending millions on my own money. Let's partner like match
me and let's do something grander. I'm already here, help
me scale it.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Match me. We did a review of what.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Was spent and it was like thirty thousand dollars on me,
you know, and that disciplined me because I had just
got a quote to do my roof for forty thousand.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
It's like I asked for a house.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
I didn't even get a roof, you know, you know,
and that was really disappointing, but only got here.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
That was the same thing with rock Nation.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
It's like, this is what I want for myself, this
is what I'm doing.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Can you do things?

Speaker 1 (24:15):
One of my my first things was like, can you
take this record to radio? I believe in it is
buzzing and working it. Can you go to radio. We're
gonna go to radio.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Done. I can you get me major press? On top
of this? Can I be in Apple? Spotify?

Speaker 1 (24:31):
Can I get all these meetings? But I want big placements.
I want to do the live stuff. I want to
move here. I had an Apple Music radio show today
on top of amongst other things. You feel me so
everything that I was like, I need this gap bridge
because you know, when you Indy, some looks they just
they ain't like you know, it's reserves.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
They're not letting you up there. Yeah. I've done a
lot of big shit Indy, Yeah for sure.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
I mean you've got like you've built to where you
could pretty much go to most platforms on your own.
So it's if I can pretty much get all the
looks on my own, you gotta get me the looks
that I can't.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
You have to do the things I can't do.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
And it's also like having boots on the ground, like
my team work on me. That mean, like we all
doing something, so I don't have fifty people who pitching
me here, pitching me here, going to the bragg connect
this this, you feel me like having a staff of
people who's just doing that on your behalf on a
back end and moving your stuff forward too at so

(25:27):
much fuel that you don't get to do when you
endy because you're gonna run out of paper.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
You're gonna burn yourself.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
John, Like, I didn't went up and down so many
times building this because.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
It's just me.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah, yeah, I feel like, Okay, So because it's a
big moment, you linking up with Hove At what point
in time was the first time you talked to jay Z?
That day we saw you guys meet up and did
you know that you were going there to meet with jay?

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (25:53):
So like was it like yo? He was like yid
because I listen, a lot of people can go to
Rock Nation. I know a lot of buddies who fit
on Rocket who, having sniffed the same are jay Z sniff?

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (26:05):
And I say that with all due respect.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
That's hilarious.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah, happened in the same fucking room. Did not go
to the fucking brunch all right?

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (26:13):
For real, it had to have been hold had to
be like, nah, I need to talk to this Kim.
So you're on your way to go meet with jay Z?

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Are you nervous? Yeah? I was.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
It's funny because the whole time, like we're negotiating for
the Rock Nation stuff. I kept telling them, I'm like
I got to meet whole though, like I got a
hoigh at hole, like all this is good, you know,
but I got I got a highlight hole, you know.
And I got the call and it was like he ready,
he want to meet. And we was already coming to
LA for some ship and I'm like, oh, let's get
it done.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
I'm finna be there.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
And yeah, definitely was a feeling of like none, nervous,
just I didn't know who I was gonna meet.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
You know.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
I bet several people in the industry and some's like damn,
you know, that wasn't the experience I envisioned. And someone
was like, wow, this is beyond what I could have imagined.
So he had definitely that energy, but it was so much.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Love.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
It was like, Bro, Nigga, and he's been watching me
for long. He like, Bro, I've been watching you forever.
That's how we even came to the convo. We were
able to talk about everything transparently, like how us even
get into like the past deal, Like he was laughing,
he was like, man, I've been watching you for a while.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
Like I tried to offer a nigga.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Deal and they didn't want to dial and we was
laughing because it was like, man, this is why. And
he was saying, that's why we respect what you did
because niggas ain't gonna do that.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
Do you feel like, because I feel like, whether we
all want to admit it or not, like validation is
from from your peers or people who look up to
for whatever amount it matters to you, it doesn't matter.
It has to be like the craziest level of like
like all this shit, like jay Z stamps what I'm doing,

(27:55):
like man, like it's different when like rock Nations offers
you a deal three four years ago to like jay
Z being like, hey man, we changed the way we
do business over here because.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
You heard it meant a lot.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
It meant a lot to the squad because you know
how tough it was during that time, Like when I
got that first Rock Nation deal, I ain't had no paper.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Niggad barely get back home from La.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
You know, it was like we came all the way
out of that meeting expecting, like, man, we gonna make
something happen. To walk away from that during that time
and go back to the couch, you know, it's like, fuck,
did I make I've so many times throughout this journey
I had to sit with myself and like, damn, did
I make the right decision?

Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (28:38):
I see all these new artists coming blow up because
they end up getting a machine and infrastructure, and it's like, damn,
I could have been you know, did I miss my way?
Because I did it take something that was possibly for me?
Was that God trying to send me my life? Rapped
the in and I passed it? Like I had to
sit with myself on all of this and know that
I chose the right thing for me, and then it

(28:59):
came full a circle.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yeah. Yeah, it's funny too because you've never said that
you were anti record deal. You said it, and never
you said in interviews with me where you'd be like, no,
I'm not anti major, it's just I'm anti shitty terms, right,
Like it's got to be a good situation, right, So
congrats on getting the situation gratitude. Was there a whole
bar or some gamey gaby that we didn't see that we.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Got a whole two three hour session.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
I'm gonna start busting it down.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeah, And he gave a lot of game, like he.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
I commend that nigga because I've been fighting for my
life out here against public scrutiny and these niggas, you know,
and the fact that he has to deal with that
every day and his children has to see it, and
his wife and his parents, Yeah, and every day. You know,
they own a nigga who just like did his best

(29:58):
to bring change in a way that he knew how
it sucked to be in that position, you know, And
I really empathize and feel for it. But he gave
us a lot of a lot of game and just
insight into like, damn, nigga, this shit possible. I've never
we haven't really got to see hip hop age in
a way that we have with you know, niggas wuld

(30:18):
be fifty and they still rapping about being in strip
clubs shaking that Teddy money murderers kid at fifty.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
You know, Hove is old Wayam's They say he.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
Wanted a few that got up there and he like, man,
I did this, And I ain't like how that shit
sat with me. That really ruined, that fucked my life.
I had to recover. I had to go heal from that.
You feel we ain't got that perspective yet.

Speaker 3 (30:39):
You always hear like the jay Z would you rather
have dinner with Hove or take five hundred K? I
guess you. I mean, I don't know if you guys ate, but.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Both you might as well.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
You might as well if like I got take them both.
I wanted to talk to you because there's another platform
that I don't think any of us would have ever
have found out or known about without you are your
part owner of even is that? Or you got a
piece of even so this company even you put on
the map fully.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
I had, I mean very first release ever.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
And fast forward won't all that just did a deal.
I think they just cut partnership. Is it with Universal
or Interscope or some shit Universal? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Do you?

Speaker 3 (31:22):
Because I feel like the even way feels to me
like almost like you were very prophetic and like being
like pay what you want, go to the website, pay
what you want, buy a ticket, pay what you want.
And you keep hearing people who seem to matter say
streaming is gonna die, it's not sustainable. The even thing

(31:44):
feels like it is kind of I mean, if Jay,
the way I look at it, it's like a guy like
j Cole participates in something like that, like it has
to kind of be the wave, right. So it's like,
for you, do you feel like the business or the
economics of how artists get their music is slowly getting

(32:05):
away from streaming and is going to go towards that model.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
I think streaming will always be right. It's like YouTube,
you know. I think it'll always be I always want
to pull out my phone and listen.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
To Michael Kanye, you listen to anything. I don't think
that'll go.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
But I think that having places where people can support
you heavier. I think streaming is like the lowest form
of support, and then it's like, hey, I really like
this guy, how can I support more? Oh, I can
go to even and do something more direct.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
That's that.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
So I don't I don't think you're red streaming. I
think it's complementary to street to streaming.

Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yeah, I feel like people change themselves and they're like, man,
you my shit ain't on out.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Man.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
There's a few rappers I love and like, you got
to have their physical fucking album. There's a few guys.
There's a few like the Old Back.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
You gotta buy the fucking I'm like, God, I ain't
got a CD player, right, And then I ain't trying
to go on some random link.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
So even's at.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
Least a good app, like you could play shit like
that's the other thing, because to play it on an app,
I think it's important too.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah, they worked hard to build that ship.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
It's like people don't want to go through an extra
step because their conditioned. It's like you see a lot
of these like podcasts who've switched to Netflix, and even
though we all use Netflix, it's a weird habit to
get into, like going to Netflix introduced and not do it.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
And on YouTube you gotta get reintroduced. And you know,
I think that you earn extra steps. I don't expect
nobody to support me on event unless I've earned it.
If I've done enough to make you be like I'm
willing to go through these extra steps to support you,
then that's a win. Every You won't get that from everybody.

(33:53):
You have to add value. You have to provide value
for people to be willing to do that.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
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(34:19):
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The team was incredible. And when I tell you, man,

(34:41):
it's like a real family atmosphere over there. This is
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Six two three three eight eight forty three thirty three.
That's six three three eight eight four three three three

(35:04):
called RAFFI. Explain to me, Man, you drop this last
album online, you sell twenty thousand units, thirty thirty thousand units. Jesus,
that's a lot.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
There's a lot of units.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
It's a lot. I'm going to get into the details
of that. But what is the because I think this
is going to be another example of how you're going
to change the music industry because to me, it's black
mists that this this doesn't count towards Billboard? Yeah, what
is the reason that the album sold isn't going to

(35:39):
count towards chart position?

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Part of the reason is something that is understandable. Billboard
has a minimum amount that has to be met, So
front of jump, it's like, okay, if it's not if
it don't sell for eight ninety nine or more, we're
not going to count it. So it's like, okay, well
take away the sales. That's a dollar, five dollars whatever, right,
and then you still have sales. And then the part
of why the remainder isn't calculated is because you can't

(36:04):
incentivize people to buy your music.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
That's a rule.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
But marketing and promotion is incentivization. But if you're gonna
do it, you have to do it through a loophole.
Like I could sell you a T shirt and you
get a pop up show, but I can't sell you
an album and you get a pop up show. So basically,
I can't give you any reward for by supporting me

(36:32):
beyond the music.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
So if you were to do a merch bundle, that damn.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
So since I called people, because if you bought an
album and I called you, that's incentivization because now I
only sold thirty thousand albums because people wanted me to
call them.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
And then if I did.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
A live stream, that's incentivization because people only bought it
because they wanted to see me live, even though the
live stream is public and free to everyone.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
You can't set a release goal. So since I.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Told people I'm going to do one hundred thousand and
I put a ticker, that's incentivization because now people are
only buying it to try to hit the goal, pop
up shows because they're only buying it because they want
a free show.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
So yeah, all that and it's like the rules is
the rules? You know, I get it.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
I get what is the average per CD bot if
you could share, like, I'm sure you have a ten dollars, Yeah,
ten dollars when you broke it down, Yep, that's fucking
crazy man.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
So Kyrie bought an album he.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Spent eleven grade eleven thousand, Gary V eighteen to five
Crazy and earning twenty thousand Raphaelsa Deep ten thousand crazy.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Was that like that had to be kind of crazy,
Like this was Kyrie tapped in.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
I mean, yeah, he's he's like shown love. Like we
never really talked deeply, but we met a while ago,
and you're like with what you're doing, what you're doing,
you know, and I'll seeing him love, Like when the
world was kind of crucifying, I sent him some words.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
Like yo, yeah they got at him, dirty dog man.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
It come with it, It come with it, you know.
But yeah, so that was just like, hey, we didn't.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
Know they're like, well Kyrie Hurvik.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah yeah, that shit was insane. It was mind blowing. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
And then I feel like in a way like you
are kind of like and I mean it's in a
positive comparison like with gary V supporting, Like I feel
like gary V has shown a whole entire generation how
to get some money m in like a practical way,
and I feel like you have done the same for artists. Yeah, yeah,
like you have showed people to get like I think
Russ is another person who was a little before you

(38:49):
was like just showing you exactly the game, like like
this is what to do, Like either listen to me
or be a dickhead and hate you know what I'm saying,
right right, But talk about that relationship with Gary Ve
just in general, because I feel like he's a supporter,
like and I'm obviously anybody who pays attention to branding
and the way the internet works have to respect what
you're doing.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
Gary V tapped in years ago too and just kind
of show love, like I see what you're doing, but
we never got to link up in the line. And
then recently, like Mike Boyd you know his Mike's Mike's
really cool, tapped in and they were coming, you know,
it was All Star weekend and everything, and he was
just like, we love what you do. We want to
see if we could work in any capacity, and I

(39:29):
just tell him what I was doing, like, man, I'm
doing this with the album, and they just got you know,
Gary has a pick a ball team and they got
Annelie Waters. She's like the number one pickleball play in
the world.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
I'm like, man, I really tapped in with so, you know,
like man, let me get out.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
I didn't know this was a thing. Yeah, there's a player.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah yeah, So he's like the lebron of pickleball basically.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
Okay, and she she only I think like nineteen number
one player in the world.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
She got like three hundred wins.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
Damn, this is a whole I just know Kevin Durant
ons a pick a.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
Ball, Nike. Nike just sponsored her. Oh wow, see a dog.
Wow a dog. Garry's got her. Harry Sinder, right, wow,
shout out to Gary. But yeah, you know, we did that,
and then we did the brunch and we just showed love.
You know, he showed love and included us and involved
us in what he was doing, and we showed the same.
We brought like energy to the space and showed them

(40:21):
what we do. And it's just connected.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
Do you feel like because you know, there was this
kind of I feel like it started in the pandemic,
and you know, I feel like we're on the other
side of it. There's a new mayor in San Francisco.
Obviously you're from blo separate place, but just the Bay totality,
it feels like it's kind of turned the page of
like people saying the Bay is dead. It feels like
it's it's it's kind of like back in the middle

(40:46):
of a stride, if that makes sense. Yeah, do you
feel the same way. I mean, look, I think All
Star Game in Super Bowl both were very successful. There
was no crazy shit that happen. I didn't hear about
nobody getting bipped that I knew at least, you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
I think, Yeah, I think now, like publicly for people
who ain't there, it's more alive than it's ever been,
Like you get to hear it and see it more
than prior. But like being there, it's always been a lot, right,
there's been somebody hell a dope there coming out like
it's just it's always had that that life force.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
Inate. Have you gotten to the point where, because I
can imagine, the bigger you get, the more difficult it
is to bring people to your childhood home, fans, whatever
the case is, is that something that has become unsustainable?

Speaker 1 (41:38):
Not really, I've been bringing niggas to my childhood home
my whole life.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
What I'm saying, like the Pergola shows, is that something
they're gonna get, They're gonna get more limited.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
No, No, I mean they're already limited. You know, so
many tickets we only do sixty year and they sell
out for the whole year.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
But now we do pop ups.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
So like just last month, that that that Epstein haven't
seen clip is from a pop up that we did
in one day and sold out. So now that's the
like in demand thing. And I'm bringing like more guesting.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
You know, we had Juvie and Double all juvenile.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
Yeah yeah, so yo the richie rich this year.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
We got some good guests coming too.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
He didn't stop rapping.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, that's all incredible moment, incredible.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
I mean I had him up here. I was like, Bro,
that's the most player shit I ever seen.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
Dog.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
This full fucking was He didn't miss a staff on.
God that shit was crazy.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
But yeah, I think it's growing in demand. It's more
in demand now, you know, like I've been selling out
pop ups in twenty four hours.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
Have you had any weird shit happened at the crib,
Like any security shit happened where you had to be like, man,
this like, I mean, I'm sure you got crazy fans.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Really.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
A couple of years ago, we had one nigga who
showed up to the crib like a day before the
show and we end up holling, and I was like,
you know, bro, like I get it, but this ain't it.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
This ain't cool.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
And it was crazy because he was like, Bro, I
came all the way from Buffalo. I've never been on
a plane. This is my first time ever flying, and
it's to come here and see you. Like, I didn't
even want to be intrusive. I just wanted to see
the house, you know. And and I thought that was
a beautiful thing.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
Very far.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
That's so far.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Man. He was an adult in his thirties. He's like, Bro,
I haven't I got a fear fly. I did this
for nothing. That's not much, just mean to me. And
I felt that, you know. And I told him, it's like, bro,
I completely get it, you know, but this, this is
what we do with this is what we don't do.
But other than that now, because it's like I still
live in the neighbor like we're here, you feel me,

(43:35):
And most of the backyard shows it's people who know,
like people fly in as well, but it's it's a
it's a lot of cold and respecting principle because it's
people from the neighborhood who's regulating it too.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
Do you, as a kid from Valle Hill, how cool
is it to see s would be RB reunite.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
No, I was like saw, I was like, this is
fucking crazy, right. I just hope they do if they
come back with some blaps, that's what they need. They
need to blaps. Yes, blaps have you I.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
Don't know been I mean, I know you fuck with
with those guys, but like, uh yeah, I feel like
it makes sense to put the russell on some of
a new SOBRB project is getting made.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
You never know for Vallejo, you never know.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
Talk to me about so you have a situation where
you say something about Lil Wayne and listen. For anybody
who is not a stranger to the Bouleghad podcast, you
will know that I ranked him eighteenth all time just
last week. Yeah, and I got hell for that.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
I ranked him higher.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
No, I have him eighteen, which people think is disrespectful,
but I'm like, I can give you seventeen better. But nonetheless,
I am very honest about Lil Wayne. I love Wayne.
I think he's one of the greatest. I think he's
the top twenty rapper of all time.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
YEP.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
And my producer it's like that's like his baby Jesus.
He has a little Wayne mirror up and his bathroom
he looks at every day. He takes a shit. So
we get into these arguments all the time. But when
you said what you said and the clip again highly take.

Speaker 5 (45:09):
It out of context, it was well, one, it was
taken out of context, but also you weren't saying anything
that's crazy.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
Yes, Lil Wayne has like Georgia Bush and he has moments, but.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
The don't even do it, don't even do it, don't
even But I was like, finally.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
Don't even do it.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Don't even do it, you know, because I love I love.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
Listen man Carter, my favorite little Wayne. I was the
first Carter Burt Man Junior. I missed my dogs, and
then Carter two, then Carter three.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
I could rap Wayne Song's front two. My living room wall,
there's pictures of my favorite artists and Wayne is in
the center. He's on my wall. That's how crazy that
moment was for me, having to like defend myself and
walk in my living room every day and see a
nigga my wall, Like, bro, what are y'all niggas talking about?

Speaker 2 (46:03):
You? Feel me?

Speaker 5 (46:03):
Like?

Speaker 2 (46:03):
It was? It was such an insane thing.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
But that was also my experience of like, oh, niggas
is just committed to like miss, this is just what
it is, and I had to accept that it's like whatever.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
Yeah I had, Like it's it's like no different than
like when you think about like someone who has my
second favorite album of all time, fifty cent, Like I'm
not sure the introspective like real substance, substance fifty ever
gave me. Now, that doesn't mean that I don't fucking
love it. Get Richard Dye. Chin's my second favorite album
of all time. God, Now I'm not sure what information

(46:35):
I would take from Get Richard Dye try and apply
to my real life.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
He was talking about killing niggas and he gave you
he gonna give you some hustling game. But it's like, bro,
he was talking about shooting niggas and selling don't.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
But fifty as a person has shown us so much.
I've read his book by you known, but he's shown
us like as a role model, like he's given a
lot of yes. But I mean, like if you were
to and I think that the same things like with Wayne,
where you're like, yeah, look Wayne, is incredible. He's got classics.

(47:09):
He's amazing. But like we got come on.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Leave it alone, bro, Yeah, leave it alone, white man,
because because they gonna do you work.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Actually they might not even say They not gonna say nothing.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
They've been coming at me for a long time.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Man, man boy, that ship they had me on Tasha
k Oh I said, you know what's the craziest thing.
It's like I made Tosa Cassay. It ain't no fucking way.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
It ain't no ain't no way.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
I didne bought out restaurants and grocery stores and really
aided my community change lives.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
And none of that made Taja k spiritual. It don't.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
It don't make none of the platforms. But the moment
a nigga say something that you disagree with, whether it's
the truth or not, I'm on everything. It was like,
all right, fuck y'all niggas did.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
Yeah, all the all the blogs that have never covered
the rustle before all of us.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
It's not a fucking thing this sky.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
And I'm like, I'm like, yo, but did he lie?

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Leave it alone? Just leave alone to me?

Speaker 3 (48:11):
To me, it was like there's been these three things
and like, look, I think I think this, uh this
heaven said thing like people people are looking for reasons
to just definitely jump out, and now they got a reason.
And it's a surface level reason because anybody who like,
like you said, I think you said it pretty like.
I know you guys are in this fucking stupid you know, right,
But I think it started with like people saying you

(48:32):
sold out.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
Yeah it was. It's all been like a Coleman.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
It's like, oh, you sold out, you signed with rock Nation.
Oh you said this about Lil Wayne.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Oh now yeah, it's like I can't believe it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:47):
Yeah, although the Russell Hayters, they're fucking juiced up right now.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
Yeah, and it's beautiful. It's beautiful because they can't do
shit but hate me. Yeah, it's like that's not gonna
it's not gonna start nothing.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
The fact you sold thirty thousand hour. A lot of
these guys who are hating you can't tell fucking thirty tickets.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
It's not gonna stop nothing.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
All like all you could do was comment online about me,
because it ain't gonna stop nothing. My shit's still gonna
be sold out.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
Talk about working with Little John, because Little John is
somebody who is a fucking legend. He's one of the
greatest producers of all time. He also, for people who
don't know, he produced the greatest Bay Area records of
all time too. I feel like people forget tell me
when it goes Little John beat Blow whist Whistle was
a little John beat.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
Muscle cars, muscle cars, Boom boom boom.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
What's it like? Because John has had a resurgence himself.
He just had a top ten record at radio like that.
I love Miami song somehow, like yeah, resurrected after seven years.
But uh, what's it like working with John and locking
in with someone like that who's just got so much history.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Incredible, He's another like hole where it's like, man, Ye're
beyond what I could have imagined. It to be so
much insight, so much game, and just real human like
we got to have conversations in the studio and and
really can't be candid, bey honest, be clear. What you

(50:12):
want to know.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
This is how I did this, This how I do this.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
If you're gonna do it, you need to do it
this way, even down to the coaching, like we did
a doc for the album.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
You should go check it.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
It's a really good ass doc and him coaching and
showing me like, Okay, try this, do it this way,
you know, not no ego in the room.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
No, it was.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
It was and it's hard to explain the experience, but
it really felt like what music is supposed to be about,
what hip hop is supposed to be about. And we've
been having this reoccurring feeling when we get in with people.
We just was in allowed with the game yesterday. Nigga
is so beautiful to see like my legends smiling and
excited and jumping like Nigga.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
They happy to make music with me.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
You know, while the way I told I mean, I
told Wiz this, that Whiz record you guys did is
that's one of my favorite records in a long time.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
Sat you feel me, It's like I'm getting in with
them and I'm making things that bring us Man joz
z Faye, like we was in there hyped while the
world is like you suck, we hate you. All my
legends is like this is incredible.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
I want more? How can I do more with you?

Speaker 1 (51:16):
You think Lil John would choose to make a whole
album with me, you know if it was like Nigga,
you ass we don't never want to hear nothing from
No One done. You think Whole would want to sign
me if that's the case, you know, like, none of
that's real. So it was just beautiful to have the
experience of niggas that I've seen growing up, music that
I heard growing up, and finally getting my chance to

(51:38):
like make something with him. I'm just happy I have
something in my catalog to be like, bro I did
that for sure.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
Yeah. I feel like we're having this cool renaissance right now,
where like a guy like Juvenile's got a big record
with Make the Stallion GI's got a top ten song,
Banger Banger. Yeah, it's good. I feel like music's I
feel like we're getting over the bullshit. I feel like
people are kind of like all right. It's almost like
how a lot of these Trump voters are like getting
over the bullshit. They're like, all right, yeah, we fucked up?

Speaker 2 (52:06):
Like did.

Speaker 3 (52:11):
Can you tell me?

Speaker 5 (52:11):
So?

Speaker 3 (52:12):
I want you to break down? So you come to LA,
you do a freestyle about Palestine, you finished the freestyle,
you're told it can't come out or it's not going
to come out.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
Yeah, right after what was done, it was like, hey,
can I come holler at you? And then it's like,
I don't know about this one.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
And you would you had then released it on your own,
and I didn't think you said anything crazy.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
I didn't.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
I just spoke the truth, as I often do and
get crucified.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
For when stuff like that happens. Do you kind of
like because there is certain like I feel like, man,
at the end of the day, I said this shit
all the time. We're living in a point in time
and history where I almost like don't respect artists wh
don't say because it's like how it's like, how can you,

(53:02):
like we said earlier, motherfuckers be mad about you saying
some shit about Lil Wayne or whatever the fuck. But
we're living through a very historic dark time of like
evil shit going on, and like I feel like it's
it's damn near like artist's responsibility to like say some shit,

(53:23):
especially hip hop. This is what hip hop has made for.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
To document the times.

Speaker 3 (53:28):
Like think about Public Enemy ice Cube even like a
mortal technique, you know, even like and it feels like
there's not a lot of that. I think Chance the
rapper did a really good job on his album of
speaking out, but I feel like there's there's not enough
of that energy, and I feel like, I don't know
if his motherfuckers are shook, but I get the shit on.

(53:50):
I have people texting me all the time, bro, like, Yo,
you're so brave for cause I'm bro. My Twitter's wow dog,
I'll be leading shit fly dog right sit, I'll be
banging Palestine like a motherfucker. I got Palestine football jersey
and everybody always hits me and they're like, man, you're

(54:12):
not afraid to get canceled, and I'm like, now, I mean, listen, man,
I'd like to be on the right side of history.
I want to be able to go to sleep at
night and know.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
Like I was my whole thing with the freestyle. It's
like I don't expect everyone to have nuts, you know.
So it's like, Okay, I get it. You don't want
to stand behind something that you may have consequences for.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
But to say we can't go to the.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
World with this because of what the repercussions could be,
and then allow a nigga to come up here and
talk about shooting niggas and selling dope and killing this
community the very next day, the very next week, the
very next every every one after was just like huh,
that's a little interesting because now I feel like you

(54:57):
don't have a regard for my people because I can't
say this. I can't speak the truth or speak how
or say hey, war is wrong or bad. But that
nigga could come up here and say the most detrimental,
egregious shit possible and you're gonna do this, right, Yeah,
you gonna do that, and it's good, right, But don't

(55:20):
let this little black nigga come up here and say
free all my niggas in free Palestine. Now it's a
problem that don't make no sense to me, and it's
not it's not explained, don't make.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Sense to me. I can't make it make sense.

Speaker 3 (55:34):
Yeah, it's like black trauma is okay.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Perfectly fine.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
We could bot right, It's cool, mo is, y'all niggas.
Just keep it with y'all niggas.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
Yeah, I just remember when you post. I had people
hitting me like is it was that you? And I
was like, of course not, of course, not.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
CAVI was finding people like nigga.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
Please, I first of all not say that Jesus Christ
that did not happen.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Wasn't care at all.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
It was not me, and it wasn't sour milk and.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
It wasn't sour milk.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
Keep going, people can do their You did a hoop
tape with the person yeah, which had you even really weirder,
you know, to be like what the fuck?

Speaker 2 (56:24):
It was interesting, like I really I really didn't.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
And then after that free we you know, we did
another freestyle monkey on my back and it was like, oh,
we can keep this one. And it's like, well, I mean, yeah, yeah,
and I don't I don't even I don't even blame,
like everybody gonna stand on what side they gotta stand on,
and it's like it's good. You know, I don't have
hatred for a nigga, but it's insights like okay, well

(56:47):
I just know where we stayd and I know how
you feel about niggas.

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You've had situations in the past where you might have
had a distros situation or a one off or whatever,

(58:18):
and like you might drop a project, but it might
maybe doesn't count towards whatever. This is the rock Nation deal?
Is it a label deal? Is it a distribution deal?

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Like?

Speaker 3 (58:31):
How how have like without getting too too much into
the you know, the business of your situation, like are
you solely with rock Nation for the time being? Like
can you? Because I'm sure this album that you you
sold thirty thousand units of was just you?

Speaker 1 (58:45):
Right, So I start selling the album prior to us
doing this, okay, but I end up partnering, you know
at the end of it because I'm like, I want
to take these to radio.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
I want more support on these.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
So yeah, that album is but not everything I did
before or got the agreement. But I have a really
hybrid deal, Like I just I just dropped an album
a week before Little Litle Down one on my own.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
I'm just over it, like one hundred now I'm.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
On forty two.

Speaker 3 (59:11):
Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
But yeah, that album, that's my ship. Mom destrove my
niggas I do. So I really I have a hybrid situation.
They understand what I built and what I've been after,
and that's what we negotiated. It's like, let me do
my thing where we can add value. Let's add value
and do things together where we can't.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
Let me do my where you were like yo this
or let's say, let's say you even have a record
that maybe goes crazy. You can take it and say,
all right, let's take this over. I could always upstream
and you guys put the rocket behind it. That makes sense.
Is there a producer, because you're known to work solely
on projects with a producer for producers, is there a

(59:48):
producer who you if you had it your way, like
you know, in a perfect world, your your bucket list
album you can make with someone who to be Dre,
that'd be crazy. Trey would be.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Crazy, Yeah, Dre Mustard, no id for real.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
No idea would be the hardest fuck. Alchemists too would
be crazy. Yeah, it's crazy, Yo, Kanye, ain't Kanye.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Man ya you know that's that's really at the top.
But I just it feels so out of reach.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
But I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
That'd be the greatest thing. I feel like me and
that nigga in the same room would be the greatest,
Like niggas, It's gonna be a lot of wild sayings.
Oh yeah, but it's it's gonna be like Nigga's gonna
get the witness hip hop and the joy and the
love like in the way it's supposed to be, because
he that Nigga that I feel like he really love

(01:00:42):
this ship still, you know the music, not all that
extra ship, but the music, like you just it's just
a different passion. But Yay is definitely like if I
could do that, you guys are very Nigga, and I
don't have to do nothing else after.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
What's your favorite Kanye album?

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
That's tough. I don't think I have a favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
My go to's graduation, late registration, college dropout, Yay. I
just recently start playing down the two like when I
just go walk and.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Ride the bike. He got a song called five thirty
on their.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Ship to play it. The said player that I ever
used or hooked up one fucking.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Top beautiful, dark twisted Fantasy is incredible too. But my
go tos is the no Yay.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
Looky the Ya album was uh incredible, man? That what's
that fucking that? One of my favorite songs with with
the chick on it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
And nothing hurts anymore? Well, I did Mushrooms. I did
Mushroom one day and that song came on and I
was like.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
One of the greatest songs of all time.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
It was like, oh, this nigga making me. Everybody can't
make music. Some of them just make songs, you know,
but music is like, what the fucking In my experience.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
I've been troomed out while listening to that song, but
I can imagine it's insane. I think my favorite Truman
music is Tame and Paula hm hm Tame and Paula.
Fucks when you're on mushrooms.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Fucks.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
Yeah, Fox, that's a good thing. Okay, Like if something's good,
you could be like yo, getting out fucks.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Yeah, hm hmm. Yeah, this this new.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
Some white people ship?

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Yeah yeah, she said, is that? Yeah? Yeah, definitely, definitely,
And it's fucks.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
Would you ever write a book?

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
I got two?

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
You have right in my third I didn't know you
had two books.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
The bullshit we tell ourselves limitless and then I'm working
on another book now.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
Is because I feel like there's like such a space
for I feel like the self help shit is real,
but I like just kind of like showing people kind
of like the blueprint of like this independent ship, putting
it all in one place.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
We've been, man t have been drafting like the idea
of what does the independent blueprint look like? Because when
he was coming up, you know, I had the Ari
Hurst Nam book and I had the Donald Passman book,
but they not us.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
Yeah, Donald Passing the Music Industry Book was like it's
like it's been reprinted a bunch and updated, but it's still.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
And it's like he's not us, right, feel me like
I love him and it helped me, but I feel
like getting that information from a nigga who like did
it right then, a nigga who's like speak like us
and like it's like, bro, I can go outside and
see a nigga like you and get that type of
GM is really useful.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
So we've been considering that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:40):
Gotta be dope, man, what did you learn about just
the game or just I mean you were on the
chance to Rappertur, which was I went to the Novo show.
It was fucking fun. Is that experience like.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
It was really dope? You know, like those moments be
it blur sometimes because chance, you know, I was young.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
And listening to fucking Acidrat and ten Day, like putting
me on ten Day and been like, wow, this is
something new and incredible. To be able to share the
stage and be backstage and see his homies, the people
I used to hear about in the songs. It was
just really dope to get that experience, to be a
fly on the wall during him and how to see

(01:04:23):
his team maneuver like it was dope.

Speaker 3 (01:04:27):
There was this you've kind of taken your own approach
on selling tickets. It feels like, you know, I don't
know if you saw the ruling about the Live nation
shit where they kind of got bailed out a bit. Yeah,
do you feel like the music industry is kind of
on the other side of like depending on these like
live nations of the world that seemed to be pretty
predatory in terms of like artists and the deals that

(01:04:51):
they'll give them and the way they kind of get
like some of these artists trapped and shit. I saw
a few guys kind of speak out against it. But
you do your own thing. I think the name of
your own ticket thing is we do offer base now too, yeah, yeah,
like name your price, yeah, and then we'll approve it
or not. Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
It's it's tough because.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Iration with the live nations, like I understand their business
as a business owner and as a nigga who had
to do that, and as a nigga who sold who
sold tickets and let niggas pay whatever, and it didn't
make you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Return, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
And then I get the other side of being the
consumer and being like, bro, I can't pay four hundred
dollars to see my favorite art.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
That's fucking insane, you know. But I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
I don't think they going nowhere, you know, like they
all of these big things once started off small and
it was somebody who was ambitious, who really wanted something
for themselves, and this is what they built out of it.
And I don't think that's going anywhere. They're going to
find new ways to come it, just like the labels
had to.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
They're going to find new ways to make sense in
a line. But I don't think they're going anywhere. They
got so much stake and equity in the game that
it is what it is.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
Yeah, almost like everyone's complicit, and.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
You never the people who succeed don't complain, So you
only hear the stories of the niggas who, like, man,
my situation was horrible, But you don't hear the person
who's like they helped me generate a billion dollars, or
they helped me develop my company, or they helped me
develop the roots picnic, or they helped me make this.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
You know, all these huge festivals.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
You know, like you don't you don't hear the complaints
from them because they succeeded at it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
So it's always two sides to that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
I saw Russ speak on you recently, Can you speak
just like how like that? You did a one album
deal with Russ and instead of deciding to tour with him,
decided to build a pergola. But Russ was kind of
one of the early guys to embrace you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
How important was like his mentorship early on in just
that relationship because obviously you out a great album with him,
but I think it was you know, I think Russ
is somebody who we don't talk about enough in terms
of kind of cutting through the bullshit of the music
industry a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
It was really vital, not just the mentorship, but he
gave me capital early. You know, he gave me one
hundred thousand, seventy five thousand up front. That was my
first time getting a wire for that amount, and it
really helped me start building and scaling my business, being
able to do merch, being able to do more shows,
being able to move my team around, being able to
take care of my family.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
So it was it was just it was aiding in
what I was already doing, and we'd have conversations we're here,
give me game. But I was really building something that
even he hasn't done to a point, Like I was
finding out new ways to do content, social media, music, everything.
But he's also always just been like an ear. Like
when all that Lil Wayne shit happened, you know, we
had calls on the phone and he was like, Bro,

(01:07:57):
this is your rite of passage. You're now figuring out
that what you have to say is more important than
you thought it was.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
And things like that is where we've always been able to.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Like he's just always assisted me, you know, Like he said,
he was able to help me and get out the way.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
He never stopped me. He never was like, hey, don't
do this.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Like even the album I was gonna do, I had
submitted an album, he was like, man, I don't know
if this is the one I want to get behind.

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
Just do your thing, you know, and he.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
Let me rocking, even him getting to the point where
he like, bro, I don't even really want to do
this label shit. I just want to take me out,
you know. And that's a beautiful thing instead of trying
to force some shit that's inorganic. It's like, bro, just
go go free and do your thing. So he's been
really important and vital to just navigating this shit.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
He had to go through the fire first for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
You know, we used to have early conbos about streaming
and how these niggas was rigging the system and what
it looked like, and why you don't cheat and why.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
What it looks like? What's the repercussion? You know, like
all of that shit.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
I was able to have a soundboard on early because
some days you conflict it. You get to looking at
them numbers and you like, how is this nigga doing this?
And I just sold out this and they still doing
this venue? You know, but how with the street? What
how was this making sen You know, as an indie
nigg coming out from the block, none of that makes

(01:09:19):
sense to you. You always feel like you're not where
you're supposed to be because it doesn't match. And you realize, okay,
well there's a system at play, and there's a game,
and if you're not gonna play and participate, you're probably
not gonna get the results you want.

Speaker 3 (01:09:33):
How important, uh, Because I first came hip to what
you were doing through Hovain who passed away, who i'd
known forever man over shit, early Troy af days. How
important was Hovain early on in kind of getting you
out of your I guess your world if you will,
because I know Hovain. I think he might have put

(01:09:55):
put because I think Charlemagne had kind of got hip
to you through him.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
Like, oh, Van really helped let the world know who
I was and what I was on, like Charlie Man.
He took me the Leakers first, you know. He would
just put together plays. And I remember before he passed,
Havan used to always call me Neo from when we met,
Like the first day we met, I was in the
studio and I probably made like three four records and
he's like, bro, this nigga ain't no wait, this nigga

(01:10:21):
you know within an hour and he's like, it ain't
no way, I ain't never seen it. He used to
always call me Neo. He'd be like you the one,
like you the one? And I remember after I think
he set up the rock Nation play and after I
turned it down and I was telling him why, I'm like, bro,
that's not it, Like we can't do that, and he
was like, bro, you you tripping.

Speaker 3 (01:10:42):
I remember when you turned down the Rush tour. He
was like, this motherfucker's tripping dog.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
But it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
Before he passed, he sent me a message and he
was like, Bro, all that I've witnessed from you is
so incredible that I don't doubt anything you do anymore,
whatever you do on behind it, because clearly I'm witnessing
something I've never seen before.

Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
That's awesome. Would you ever sell your catalog?

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
Forty two albums worth?

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
You see a lot of guys I would make a
new catalog to sell, but I wouldn't sell to one
that I've spent all of my lifetime, you know, building
to this point.

Speaker 3 (01:11:18):
Yeah, I feel like your catalog has to hit in
a different way than a lot of other artists catalog
just because of how you built it and.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
How man and also.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
Some of my died, like it's so made my former
team members and like when it when it hit, is
it it's just like, nah, that's that's for us.

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
Because you had situations like where you were like cutting
in video guys on District Kid and like.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Every video he shoot, he on equity end, he get
paid monthly.

Speaker 3 (01:11:45):
That's fire. Yeah, was that was the reason for that,
Like one obviously looking out, but also like I feel
like when you're when you're starting out right, you could
offer that maybe easier than you can offer like five
hundred bucks.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
Yeah, like that five.

Speaker 3 (01:11:59):
Hundred can maybe go towards putting ads into the music
as opposed to like, hey look I'm gonna give you
a cut of this record, I just need to go
to smash.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
It was partial that, but it was also like you
deserve it because you helped make it go. You mem
It's like you're you're entitled to something beyond just like money.
It's like, bro, this thing lives for ever, and you
helped me create it. You should probably get a piece
of it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:23):
All right, So what's coming next for you outside of you,
uh defending yourself on Twitter over the next few days.

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
Damn, I'm done with it, letting it go. This interview
is actually the per hopefully we go out soon.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
So yeah, we'll drop it tomorrow, clip perfect and I
need to take the clip.

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
You know, we will drop it tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
Get out and hear that Cyrus.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
I'm done defending it, you know, until the outrage reaches there.

Speaker 3 (01:12:48):
We see Cyrus baby over there. Weezy f Cyrus, weezy
f Cyrus tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
But man, I got we got so much motion going on,
and I'm just getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and
I love it. We're doing more special things and throwing
my own show. I got to book some of my
favorite legends, like myself as an agent and throw festivals,
and I get to help my hood and the community.
It's just like it's so much happening. I'm just grateful

(01:13:15):
to be here for the journey, and I'm grateful to
be hated. You know, I'm important enough to be hated.
No one hates on the niggas who ain't doing shit.

Speaker 3 (01:13:25):
Because you're not a threat. You're not a threat at
the position you're not. I feel like once you see
motherfuckers start a threat, people's like position or they start
getting a little self conscious about where they are, they
be like, ah, that motherfucker.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:13:37):
Man, you see the shit all the time, brou And.

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
You know what's beautiful is like internet is permanent documentation,
so all you niggas who've been hating and in the
comments like these years gonna pass and we're gonna see you,
and you're gonna try to hey can I get can I?
And it's like, no, we remember where you stood, right,
And I appreciate you, you know, because it's like you've said,

(01:14:00):
every time I've had a moment of turmoil in and
of anything, kill one of the first ones to hit me,
don't worry about these niggas.

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
That's exactly what they're gonna say.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
But for real, you you always showed me even when
niggas hating silently You're like, hey, bro, just so you
know this is what's going on. And I really appreciate
that because you don't have to. You know, a lot
of niggas a smile and shaking that and use you
as much as they can, get you on their platform
and get you do interviews, and then it's like the
other end. So I'm happy that we got documentation and

(01:14:30):
we're going cause I'm going in five years.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
Bro.

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
Well, I'm super proud of you man. Congrats on the
Rock Nation. Did I think that is one of the
coolest things I've ever seen happen? The whole full circle
man jay Z sitting down with you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
It's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 3 (01:14:46):
It's so craz Are you gonna you have to go?
He just announced the Yankee.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
Se I've been looking like I gotta be there.

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
I gotta sell a kidney to go. But I'm gonna, God, yeah,
I'm kicking every tire a rock nation that I fucking no.
I'm like, hey, I know I might have said some
disparaging things.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
No hella, funny I've been.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
I've been like, I'm trying not to use my favors,
yet I need them, Like.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
I just know what.

Speaker 3 (01:15:11):
I'm gonna go by myself. Like I need one ticket.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Dad, what?

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
I just got the number, and I'm scared to even
shoot a message. I'm like, I'm gonna wait till I
absolutely need it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:22):
I've spent eight thousand dollars on clips merch in the
last twelve months, for fuck's sake. I need a single ticket.
I just want to go to the reasonable doubt night.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
I'll be out of the two.

Speaker 3 (01:15:31):
Will be nice. Good, appreciate you, brother, my guy.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
Yeather.

Speaker 4 (01:15:36):
Hey, we gotta wrap up this interview another one presented
by Hard Dang Baby, you already know what it is.

Speaker 3 (01:15:42):
Shout out to Hardeen for presenting another episode of the
bootleg podcast Don't forget when you're in Vegas, you're getting
that tax, you getting that uber say take me to Hardeen,
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It's incredible. Hardin Underscore Las Vegas. Shoot them a follow

(01:16:02):
and when you're in Las Vegas and make sure you
shoot them a visit.