#660 - Swerve Strickland on WWE Firing The New Day, AEW Success, Theme Song Lawsuit, Anarchy in the Arena & More

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Boutlet Cam podcast special guests didn't here my guy, Swerve Strickland.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yeah, his favorite guest, favorite guests. I have to be
the most favorite wrestling guest you have.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
For sure, you definitely have that. He's like, first of all,
you're out here in the studio, you were working with
Max b.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
I wasn't. That was in New York.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Oh that was in New York.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, that was in New York.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
So what's what's First of all, I saw him yesterday.
I saw him on stage at Versus and he was
given the unk just got out of prison energy like
a motherfucker.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
He was looking at girls in the crowd, flicker and
his tongue and I was like, what is going on?

Speaker 2 (00:37):
I didn't get to see. I just saw the clips
of it. I was on a flight during the whole thing.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
How was that like getting in the studio with him for.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Like, first of all, like I didn't even know he was,
Like I was in his radar like that. I got
kept getting tagged on Twitter when like he was doing
the interview from prison. Yeah, and he's like, I'm you know,
I'm swerving out here in the streets, man, Swerve Strickland.
I'm like the hell's he know who I am? Right?
So like that kind of got popped and got everything
going on in social space. And then like as soon

(01:04):
as he's out, like that same interview started like swirling again.
And then so my girl Rosie was just like walking
through the airport. She was about to fly to Orlando,
and she's like, I think I see Max b over there.
I think I'm gonna say what's up? And I'm on
FaceTime and she's just like, He's like, Yo, swerve, what's good? Yo?
When we gonna make something happen? Was I'm like, I'm

(01:25):
on you whenever your time, your time, And so he
was coming back from vacation. I got back from vacation.
I was like, we blocked it out with our teams,
locked out a weekend to make it happen up in
New York. And sure enough he was. He was on
time too, punctual.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Was he was?

Speaker 2 (01:42):
He watching the show in jail? I believe, So, yeah,
that's the only way he could have you about. Yeah,
I don't know, but he was.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
He was.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
He was tapped in. He's like like, I like the talkers, man,
I like the ship talkers. I love the people that talk.
They ship Man. Of course, y'all get down, y'all get
down in the ring over there. But I liked the
ship Talkers, so yeah, it was. It was awesome, like
great energy. We was in the studio all day, but
like he did like three hours, did.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Two tracks with me fire. Yeah. Are you you're still independent?

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Ye? You're running in yep, But I'm under I'm right now.
I'm working with principal group principal shout out Sean. Yeah, Sean,
he's been. He was responsible for working on the project
with Jay Z on American Gangster Album and stuff, so
we're working together with him. He's like very motivating and
very inspiring because like he's not gonna waste his time

(02:34):
on just anybody in the studio. He's like blocking out
days and hours of like studio time, and I'm like,
I'm there, I'm on time, working, I'm writing, I'm putting
stuff together, and i think we're doing really well together.
That's where the ray kwan uh stup setup came from,

(02:54):
because it's they're working with mass Appeal. Yeah. So Sean's
working with mass Appeal. Yeah and Boom all these partnerships
and all that stuff for the Mob Deep thing. The
day Lost Soul Records.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Does that like cause you're you're pretty new to rapping
still like six seven years. I'm saying like, if you
know you're getting on a song with Ray Kwan, do
you get like nervous?

Speaker 2 (03:15):
So I was talking about like like I wrote my
verse right in front of them and wrapped it. I
was I did. I laid all my vocals first, and
like from all the years of like me getting on
records with like Mickey FATX, John Connors and Benny the Butchers.
These are like lyrical bitters, you know, like that kind
of strengthened me and built my confidence to be able

(03:36):
to like all right, I'm ready to go boom right
and stuff you know, like like Benny like bun Bees
and west Side. You know, I got like really ready
for these moments. So now when I'm in the studio
like like oh yeah, I'm ready, I'm ready, Yeah, record,
I'm good.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
What has been going on? You haven't been on TV recently?

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yeah? I just got back like two weeks ago. Okay,
like a couple it's like a couple of promo packages.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
You took, you took some time off.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah yeah, yeah, it was like it was like not long.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yeah, it feels like the a W heat is on.
It's it's it's hot right now.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
It is a great alternative product to the status quo
that has been less than appealing recently.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
But it's it's interesting because like there's the pocket of
people that it doesn't that they're ripping into shreds. They're
like criticizing it every every which way. But then there's
like the large masses that still follow it religiously.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
My wife, I took my wife to the Crypto uh
PI review that you you wrestle?

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Who'd you wrestled?

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Again?

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah? And my wife she is not a wrestling fan.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
She retarded.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Like she me and my kids be watching it on
Mondays and Wednesday.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
Locked in and she's like, I don't what the fuck
are you guys watching?

Speaker 2 (04:57):
She was in it.

Speaker 4 (04:59):
Yeah, yeah, man, believe some of the ship that was
happening this this shows I love, especially pay per view
times TV's too, But.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
But I feel like he shows, like the Dynamite shows
be like little mini pay per views.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Oh yeah, like but like pay per views, I like
not knowing anything. I love being feeling like that, like
what the fuck is happening? I love especially when Darby's
on the card. Oh shit, okay, you don't Yeah, you
don't know what you're gonna get. There's certain guys that
you like Moxley, you don't know what you're gonna get
with a Moxley match. Ospra you don't know how elevated

(05:36):
he's going to take a match, you know, or Tequshta's
and Kyle Fletcher. I'm like, all right, you know Kyle's
has such a structure now you know, like, oh, they're
just warming up. You know it's about to start going now.
You added Champa to the mix with these guys. He's
a madman in himself. All So, like, I love not knowing.

(05:57):
So when I watch the show and I'm like, no,
don't tell me nothing, I don't want to watch.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
So if you're not a part of what's going on.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
I still want to watch.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, you don't want to know what's happening.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, I still don't want to know. But yeah, like, uh,
it's it's definitely giving different flavors of many different ice creams,
many different Like it's not even like different ice cream
You're you're getting different ice cream shops. You're getting this
is Ben and Jerry's different This is like basking robins,

(06:27):
This is like dairy queen. You're getting is so now
like what you're getting from both wrestling. Actually, I wouldn't
say both. I say alla and there. I'll throw TNA
in there, I'll throw MLW in there. You're getting like
like some you're getting gelato. Now you're getting like like
you're getting so much like you're doting Ben and Jerry's.

(06:48):
You're getting all these different things. So it's not a
sub of a sub of I saw.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
I saw the meltzer dude describe it pretty accurately. He
was like, both of these things are totally different. They're
both wrestling, but they're totally separate and you can enjoy
both of them for their own reasons.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, So it's really unfair to not only just like
the wrestling landscape, it's unfair to yourself to go out
on the internet and criticize one product and when you're
in your criticisms, you're bringing in another product in comparing
it to I'm like, you know you can't do that.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
You can't compare them.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
Your criticisms are now Nolan void because now you're basing
it off of something else. You can't compare like the
ninety six Bulls to the Golden State Warriors of twenty fifteen.
You can't do it. Stop, it's already done. You can't
do it, so that already takes you out of the
fan base. Is like, I can like the Warriors for

(07:49):
being the Warriors. I can like the Bulls for being
the Bulls, but you can't, like.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
If you're a basketball fan, you could have appreciated the
Showtime Lakers and the Bad Boy Pistons for different reasons.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
For very different region.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
I they're both playing.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
I don't care. I don't care what's better. I know
they both won, and they both won in THEIRS in
their respective ways and their respective eras and the respective
styles of the game. And right now AW and ww
are both winning in their respective ways and the respective
styles and the respective eras and genres of the way

(08:24):
they do it.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Do you feel like, because you know what what kind
of sucks is there's this TNA WWE thing going that which.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
I don't really have much information or anything I was
going to say was.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Like it felt like the AW like hard launch was
pretty combative towards WWE, and I feel like it kind
of has removed any possibility from like there ever being
any sort of you know, just like a some sort
of you know, I think about like there's got to
be some sort of storyline in the future with in

(09:00):
Roman where we're like, fuck, John Moxley should pop out,
you know, but it's not possible.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
It's not possible, you.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Know, and so and like I even saw like I'm
sure you know obviously, you know, but for people who
don't know, there was the shows many a weekend. Oh yeah,
and there were TNA and AW Talent that were booked,
and TNA yanked their talent away from those matches.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
That were with AW Talent.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
So even before that, I was like, how's this going
to work? And I was like, I was talking to Rickyche,
I was like, are both parties Like.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
Does everybody know what's going on?

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah? Like I was, I was. I was like yeah,
I was just confirming, like everybody cool on this. I
was like, as far as I know, we're good. And
I was like all right, And then the Ziggler one,
the Memath one came up. I was like like for
the fan base, great, for the wrestling, awesome. I just
don't know backstage, the politics, I don't know. Yeah, the

(09:55):
management side of these things. I don't know how far
that's going to get pushed all the way up the
chain till some body comes down. And that's why card
subject to change is always on these flyers, because you
don't know how far it is going to go until
somebody just comes down and just like nah, noa no. Like.
So I don't like it's unfortunate, but that's just the

(10:16):
reality of what was going to happen.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
It's just you're as big as you've been in over
ten years.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, so you don't want to jeopardize that.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, that symbiotic relationship with like, you know, Trick Williams
holding the TNA title did so much.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
For TNA, Yes, sir, and it did. It did good
for Trick on und you don't know how a guy
is going to be in the main event if you've
never seen him in the main event's scenarios, you know,
And so it was good to put like Trick in
that situation to look feel have the responsibility of being

(10:52):
a main event guy in performing like a main event
like and ring competitor. So like, I think that helped
TNA's perception, and that was doing the same thing with
Mike Santana right now, Mike's shot out. Mike Santana's incredible,
Like they're putting them out there to be perceived and
like pushed, and now we see Mike differently now, Like

(11:13):
the wrestling industry is all manipulative. All of this is
we got to manipulate the audience to believe what we're
trying to present to them and promote to them. So
that's what this is. So it's like, yes, like this
is a really good Like they don't know until they
see him seeing his believing.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
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Speaker 3 (11:44):
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Speaker 2 (12:06):
I don't know, maybe a little Budweiser, maybe a little
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Speaker 1 (12:13):
Can we also give a shout out they just locked
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send me some one.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
Piece stuff Colt forty five. How about some warheads? Uh? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (12:23):
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Speaker 3 (12:55):
If you will of I think it was Oba.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
I'll be still in post. I won't make that shit.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Whatever it is, it feels like outside of you know,
we'll touch on Kofe and Xavier getting read in a
little bit, but in terms of black wrestlers being at
the forefront, of Oh yeah, the business period.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Oh yeah, this I feel like is like a special
golden era.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Oh yeah. And what I love, nobody's like the other.
They're all different, different. Everybody is their own entity, their
own genre. Nobody's following the same stereotype as the other.
You get. That's the ice cream flavors. You're getting two,
You're getting blends of different guys and like, and I'm

(13:43):
just happy and fortunately to be like maybe maybe like responsible,
not responsible, but like I have an integration of like
maybe two of those guys, like a Carmelo because I
was the first I dropped the North American title to
Carmelo Hayes, you know. And then Kevin Night.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
You know, he's so good.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Man, he's all like and like I said, like his
first real like singles main event was with me and Dynamite,
you know, this year. So he just now he's.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
Wednesday Night, right, Yeah, I just want Derby.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah. So now like he's now you see the perception
of Malodef differently. Now we know, oh that's the main event,
or we can put him in the main events, and
that's how it starts.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
Now I feel like he's the kind of guy too
that like if you don't know anything about wrestling, and
you just turn him on, you'd be like, yo, what this.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Guy's just watch him.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
This guy's crazy's incredible.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
Just watch him. And he's stylishly.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
Tn T yeah tn T title Yeah, he's.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
Stylishly smooth too, like like Javon's different from like Kevin
in a sense too of like he's the young yan
energy like he's like it's cools, like people are mistaken, like, oh,
smile to just happy like.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah he's twenty one.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, he is a woe to be happy. That's the
kind of energy you want to see from a young
twenty one year old, like athletic kid living out his dream.
Because he's living out his dream vicariously through other twenty
year olds, twenty one year olds. That's like, man, he's
doing all this at twenty one. It maybe it inspires
the next twenty one year old or the next seventeen
eighteen year old to be like I want to like

(15:25):
I want to be like that because it's like remember
bow Wow when he was hot at thirteen.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, I mean when I interviewed him, I was like, dude,
So when he's like I got into wrestling school at
thirteen yeah, that's yeh.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
But but like bow Wow was like on top of
the rap game at thirteen, fourteen fifteen, Yeah, that made
other fifteen year old kids want to start rapping at
twelve and thirteen stuff. So it's the same type of
effect I see with Javan. You know, Oba like showing
peak like strength and like power like cool running. I
see power, I see pride, I see a bad mother.

(15:58):
That's Oba. Like.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
I think they got to fast forward the OPA thing.
I don't think they got to overthink it. I think
I think he is ready to be.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
I met Oba at the gym and I said, if
I had the pen, your debut would be winning that belt.
I was close because his debut was against Cody for
the belt. And he was like, how did you do this? Man?
I was like, I just call the house, see it's you, bro.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
Bro, I just think whatever this. I think the Open
Challenge ship is cool. But I'm like, bro, he just
needs to show up.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
We want to see him. We want to see him. Big.
Perception is everything. May put him in the main events.
Perception is everything. People will buy it, but you got
they got to see it. The same with Broun and
not even just Black wrestlers see the same as Broun Breaker,
like perception is everything. Put him in the main events.
People will buy into it. The more you do it,
they'll perceive it and they'll.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
Because at the end of the day, if you book
somebody as.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
Help or That's why I think it was probably like
a gift in a gift low key that like Seth
got hurt because it kind of sped up like yeah,
you know, and it's like if if you know someone's
got it, like, don't overthink it, because then the fans
get stale on them. That's why I thought that what
they did with Trick was super smart. I'm like, they
did Trick and O, but I feel like I wish they.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Would have did the same thing with Mellow immediately, because
when Mellow came over, if they would have just pushed
him in, it's like the fans already familiar with this guy.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
He checks out like yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna
be tricky. Like Shawn Michaels was he just did the
interview or whatever it was. I just re reading it
his prompts or whatever he was saying, like he said
the same thing to me. He's like, guys, like us.
He said the same thing to Mellow in his interview.
He was like, it's like, we gotta work a little
harder to.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
Get to he said, because the best doesn't always finish
number one.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
To finish one, Yeah, we're the ones that were too
talented to We'll always succeeded, but we got to take
the long road. And I'm like, that's my career, real ship. Yeah,
it's like Mellow is going to be that guy that's like, Okay,
everybody's getting there now, He's gonna have to come around
later on and then meet those guys Boom.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
I want to know you've you did a pretty good
job of incorporating celebrity stuff into your stuff at aw Yeah,
Ross and bow Wow stuff too, right, I.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Never did it was that's right, that's right, that's right.
But I remember Rick Ross came out with you. What
are your thoughts on like just the celebrity involvement and
how do you because this isn't I always tell people
like celebrities being involved in wrestling is not new, it's
just it's kind of how it got into like pop culture.
Mister t you know, Oh, but I wonder like your

(18:37):
thoughts on like finding the balance walking the rope, the
tight rope where you're like, you know, before it becomes
too much and so so it has to be organic
one uh like And and I'll say another thing. It
has to has to go both ways too. If we
invent you into our world, we get you got to

(18:57):
invite us into ours. Like like when Bad Bunny came over,
he had Damian Priest going to the Latin Music Awards
presenting with him and stuff like that. I was like, Okay, cool,
that's a great trade. So now it's swing the pendulum,
swing in both ways, you know. So it has to
That's how it feels organic. It's like, oh, we're not
just like doing this for media appearances and stuff like that.

(19:17):
It has to feel right. And it's also about the fans.
If they connect to it, they'll tell you when they
don't like something. I'll saying this before, I was like,
it's like babies crying. They're like crying, Like, eh, wow,
why are they crying? You got to figure out why
is it crying? Why is it complaining? And you figure
out the elements. I'm like, oh, it's not crying. Okay,
it needed a hug, all right, Okay, it needed is

(19:39):
diaper change. All right, it needs fed. But if like
it's still crying, all right, it's not that wasn't it.
That wasn't the remedy. So you got to keep figuring
out those things. And it's just feeling what the like,
like the fans took to YACHTI.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yeah, because he wasn't doing too much. He did a
great job.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Fans took to YACHTI. So like, okay, that's stuck. That
that's the remedy. Now I think like.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Initially last year, like the fans they took to the
Jelly Roll thing.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, like last year, that was the right amount of Yeah,
they gave you right amounts of it, right, you know
what I mean. So it's a remedy. But now now
the baby's starting to cry again, and you know, but
it's not crying with though. Yeah. Pretty im pretty I'm.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Pretty comfortable in saying this because I think jelly wanted
his story because you let me know, because I'm really
close to Jelly Roll. Yeah uh, And like what was this?
He was very self aware of.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
He he that that that he was being pushed into
a storyline that he probably didn't need to be pushed into,
and he was pushing him. He was being very vocal
about wanting to be involved in a storyline that is
still playing out currently. Uh, that was more comedic, and
he was like, guys, if you put me into this thing,

(20:57):
I promise you it's gonna cook.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
It's gonna fuck.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
And I was there at SmackDown in Phoenix and I
heard him having these convos with certain people at WWE
and they still decided to And like, if you're him,
You're like, hey, man, if you're gonna push me into
the main event at WrestleMania, I'm not gonna say no,
but I don't think people are gonna.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
And then to me, it wasn't even him so much
that like the McAfee thing was like it was just weird.
It just made no sense.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
You had the guy like Randy on the phone talk
about it more than one family and w and I'm like,
is it gonna be Teddybiassi Junior.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
I just didn't get the McAfee thing.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
I think the McAfee thing kind of blew up the
narrative of like the celebrity shit being too much because
the McAfee thing was like, Bro, Randy and Cody haven't
even cut a promo on each other yet I know,
and that first night at SmackDown when he when he
flipped and beat the shit out of Cody.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
I was there front row and Jelly got involved and
like because he was in the building, it was they
caught the ark, right, you know, he didn't.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
Catch Rko then, but but that the fans were in.
I'm like, that's how you create a main event. You
turn Randy heel and he's got blood on the title.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
And it wasn't it wasn't difficult, it wasn't too crazy,
it wasn't too over like it's the it's.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
The you don't have to reinvent the wheel. It's almost
like the punk Roman thing was just old school. There
was no antics involved and it was just.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
The family, just the families that motherfuckers just talked ship
about and then guess what that Guess how it ended.
They wrestled all time all time Wrestlmania match. I think
I think it's the top five for sure. Top five.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yeah, that shi it was.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
I want to that's what we're like, Like you could
tell like Punk worked hard. No, he got himself in
hard for that, like to prepare for it and then
to perform. He worked hard and That's where I feel like,
that's why it's like like Roman's Roman was going to
be Yeah, he's an alien, but like I feel like

(23:02):
Punk worked hard for that and that's why I got
the reception did Yeah, And like I feel like just
the storytelling where like he tried to hit him with
one more GTS and you know, he got called old
and he fell.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
Out, and I was like, oh, this is the best
it gets. You are friends with Kofi and Xavier.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah, there's a lot of obviously for people who don't
know that, there's a lot of cuts from WWE. They
were the I would say the headline of the cuts, well,
I guess they decided.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
I wouldn't even call them a cut. They were like.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah when they got hit with whatever the new stipulations
where they're like, we'd rather.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Just go yeah they know, which I'm honestly happy because
that that still shows how their value they They they
could say no and they still can walk out like
you know what I mean, They're not leaving like looking.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Like not you know no, I mean look, one of
the greatest tag teams of all time. New Day is
one of the best factions ever. There's a lot of speculation.
A lot of fans want to see them end up
in AW.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Oh yeah, there's a lot of rustlers. I want to
see them in AW.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
Have you had any conversations with them since.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
I talked to him the same day, you know, like
Covie took like another day to get back to me.
But like they're in the high spirits, They're motivated, they're happy.
I feel like they have the ball in their court,
which is what they always wanted. They have their ball
in the court, and they honestly feel like they can

(24:32):
control their own narrative. And Xavier's really good at that. Yes,
Xavier is really good at controlling the narrative. Kofe is
walking free agent the first time in his whole career.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yeah, he's been there, I think eights.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
Eighteen years first time in his whole career, which he
was a he was a Hall of Famer like five
years five six years ago, five six years ago. He
was a Hall of Famer then. And then add the
world title match on top of that. He's the he's
the only black wrestler to ever win the world title
at Mania. He's the only one that's something that he

(25:12):
can't take that you can't take away from him. You can't.
You can't. Never had any negative press on him, never
had any issues, never any like suspensions, never finds, never
any of this. So he's walking out a role model
to a whole generation of kids. There's like I was
saying this before, like there's an archetype around Kofe. Oh

(25:36):
that's the koffee spot, that's the you get to do
the kofee moment in Mania, the koffee rumble spot in
the in money in the bank that you get the koffee.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
There's an archetype all these crazy spots, every whatever.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Like it was almost like you were waiting, like all right,
how's he going to not get eliminated this year?

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Like I said, he inspired me to try to like
not recreate but had like like his koffee with something.
It's like, man, I would I would hope in my
care I can do something close to something similar like
that and that like I was able to win the
world title, you know, a dynasty in twenty twenty four.
But it's like, man, I feel like this some of

(26:14):
this has to go to Kofe because it's like once
again manipulation, seeing is believing this doesn't is impossible unless
you see Kofe doing this first for the world to
see that it is possible, you know.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
I saw it's influence some tweets going around that we're saying,
obviously there's a lot of great black wrestlers all time,
but that he's the greatest black wrestler ever.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
It's a it's argument to be had.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
I feel like it's, you know, obviously that Mark Henry
got him. There's you know, but he's like you said,
and I think like too, Like I don't know, man,
I don't know if anybody's like like, every once in
a while you'll see some shit get over with the
fans like that, like the way the New Days. It's
like Dan Housen's like New Day right now.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah, the bootyos D Cereal Cereal. They were in Gears
of War the video game. They were like some of
the best en Ring World champions out of that faction.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
I feel like they were doing.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Like the way they do the theme the themes with
their costumes is like kind of like what you do,
Like we will come out and.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
You'll be like, oh, this is a twer the Creator
theme or the Predator, Yeah whatever.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
I was just saying that I was like, yeah, they
made it okay to be yourself. Yeah, they're like, you know,
take who you are, Like they say the black nerd like,
uh fandom, that's a real subculture in anime and all
that stuff, and like, you know, so they're the ones
that like put that out there, like no, we like pancakes,
we like freaking dragon ball Z, we like a street fighter.

(27:39):
We dressed like this, we like this. I'm like, yeah,
that's cool. I like that. I feel cool to express
myself like that too. And he was showing like our culture,
that's okay, that's a good thing.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
Then versus the young bucks would go crazy. Man, we
go crazy.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
Let me say, I already got that conversation started. I
already got that crazy that I'm like. And then it'll
be like, first like, this is the two greatest tag
teams of of a generation. Yeah, I think you got
you gotta just you gotta respect, you gotta respect the

(28:14):
Husso's in there too, Husso's Hussos. I feel like usso's
are more catered towards FTR.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
That's fair, that's fair.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
I've always felt like that.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
I just feel like they carried the division for a
chunk of a time and they've always something. I mean,
they're still both relevant and obviously you go into this
solo stuff, but I definitely think there's like those three
or four in the last.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
You know, but the new day, I feel like they
they were. Man, that'll be crazy though, So I want
to talk to you, Uh, what are your thoughts.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
On aw potentially not having a TV deal and going
to YouTube because I saw that headline that when he said, hey,
we might have YouTube as the backup plan.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, what are your thoughts on? I feel like like
having this discussion four years ago maybe would have concerned
me a little bit more. But after t N T
TBS and.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
A triple a's on YouTube.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, exactly right. And but like after the success of
like HBO Max and everything like that, No.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
It made dude, HBO Max made it possible for me
to watch every week exactly.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
After all these things, all the like the levels that
we keep jumping and all that stuff, I wouldn't be concerned.
I feel like Tony's made such great connections with all
the higher ups. I feel like we've gotten incredible praise
and support with like wbd DC and all these things
that there is a market for all the wrestling and

(29:53):
professional wrestling under the Paramount brand, you know when that
happens and stuff. So I feel like TK is very
three steps ahead on that, and I like those were
one of those things that you just gotta trust. Like
what we do like this is we gotta trust like
who we are, we gotta trust where TKO's mindset for this,

(30:15):
like that has grown exponentially in the last seven months,
seven years of doing this. The reputation that precedes us
and all of EA wrestling and it's all about what
the fans want is I feel like this is something
about the fans can really be the support system behind that,

(30:37):
and the more vocal they are and the more like
they come to these shows and the more like that's
what drives these TV deals to like really like, okay,
this is a slam dunk now. So and it's like
I saw a report like a twelve to sixteen months out.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
I'm like, that's a that's a long time.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
No pulled some shit in like three months.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Well, I think they were speculating that like TKO's relationship
with Paramount and obviously there's all this like everyone's getting
consolidated by the Ellison.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
So I don't know. I just I just wonder, like.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
I've heard that he's has a solid like t k
has a solid relationship with Elison.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
Do you feel like.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Tony Khan's pettiness has hurt him at all? Because I
was at the store, the only NFL team that didn't
have a belt.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
Was the Jaguars. Petty motherfucker?

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Has it hurt him? M M? I don't think so, because,
like I think there was things that like that were
being said on TV years ago that were way worse,
way more I would say if we would have said
that in the position where are now way more damaging.

(31:50):
For sure, Yeah, but also there's these things that people
don't forget. And but to say he's like the pettiness
has hurt him, I don't believe so. I don't believe so,
because there's always going to be a need for someone

(32:11):
like a Tony conn in disposition that's always going to
be like that's always there's always going to be a
need for that. We don't know the people, the deep
people that are behind Ellison that Tony's like those You
don't know how deep these relationships really go. That's a
circle of money that like that that goes beyond Twitter

(32:33):
discussion that goes beyond like a newspaper ad that goes
beyond like even talking on CNN, Like you don't know
like how deep these relationships can go back, because there's
always something that Tony can offer, something that can just
like hm, hm, you know what, whatever issues or pettiness

(32:54):
we've had before, we can be in that. That doesn't matter.
We can continue business with this.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
I wanted to ask because I was, uh, you know,
I feel like sometimes we'll see people get booked in
ways that have long term ramifications and and and one
of the examples I can think of is I'm watching
this Adam Hangman Page m jf Uh yeah, I don't

(33:20):
know about that in l A and uh, what do
you'all call it?

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Texas Deathmatch? Yeah, I mean it is. It was crazy.
It was a man, it was wild.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
But the stipulation was that Hangman Page can no longer
pursue the belt ever. Again.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
It helps me out, But I'm just wondering, like, Hangman
Page is one of the faces of the company, and
does that kind of like hinder one of the biggest
faces of the company.

Speaker 5 (33:51):
Theoretically, Yeah, because now you can never be in the
title is the same thing that happened with Cody, so
keeps that kind of like lore alive in the aw
zeitgeist of this whole thing that's happened in the day.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yeah, that's honestly what makes Hangman's story that much more.
You have to pay more attention to you know what
I mean. It's now It's not just like because I'll
say this wrestling fans, we got to decide what we're

(34:32):
valuing more when we're watching characters or stories or matches.
Are we valuing booking more? Are we valuing story? So
what I mean by that is sometimes to tell a
great story, you have to sacrifice good booking to tell
a great story to pay off later on. That's like,
that's that would be like if you're watching a movie like, oh,

(34:57):
the hero always saves the girl, Well the girl dies
thirty minutes in what what That's not good writing? That's
not good writing. I'm like, well, the story's not finished.
So if you sacrifice that and then the story plays
out in the end the way the story was properly
supposed to be written, and you get a great finish,
or it doesn't. Even nowadays, I wouldn't even say movies.

(35:19):
I would say series is Now because now characters are
coming back season three or season four for sure in
series is Now, and so that character comes back season
four whatever. That finishes the story. So you got to
sacrifice sometimes good booking or good structurally writing like cinema
and stuff to tell the good story. And fans are
clashing with that. That's like the same thing of like

(35:41):
what's more important? Promos are wrestling? Well, you need both,
you need both, you need both, but sometimes you gotta
sacrifice a good match to tell a good have a
good promo. Sometimes you got to go the other way around. Yeah,
So right now we're sacrificing booking for the long term
story of Hangman page and how that being written? I
don't know. How would I do it? I don't know

(36:03):
because it's not my story. How would how?

Speaker 3 (36:06):
How?

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Like would you? What is it smart to do this? Well?
Probably not theoretically, no, Like structurally it's no. I wouldn't
do it. That's dumb. We've seen that happen before and
it wouldn't work out. But once again, this isn't our story.
So like you have to sacrifice good bookings sometimes to

(36:27):
ultimately finish out the good story and character art for
certain characters. Sometimes it's an exception. There's an exception to
the rule. This might Hangman Page so many times has
been the exception to the rule in AW countless times,
especially with like dark Order and lower and like being
the cowboy in the stadium stampede and the drinking and

(36:49):
then me and him like.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Drinking blood off your face.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Exception to the rule. You know, He's like I got
cheered for entering his house where the exception and burning
my house down. There's exceptions hang in Page throughout all
of AW history has always been an exception to the rule.
And so I feel like, coming on on the other
side of that, he's gonna still be that exception to

(37:15):
the rule. Me and him being a tag team was
the exception to the rule of how structurally booking heels
and babyfaces are supposed to go. But we I play
into a lot of exceptions to the rule in a
lot of ways too.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Do you enjoy because I feel like you're kind of
always a tweener in terms of whether you're a or
a bad guy, Like you very much like walk the line,
you know, But do you which side of the coin
do you enjoy being on?

Speaker 3 (37:40):
More? Being a heel or being a babyface.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
Whatever tells the best story.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
But like you, you gotta kind of like there's not like.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
Okay to me. I don't have that side. I have motive.
I have motive that takes me where I go, and
my motive tells you what I'm about, and you'll feel
that like me and Kenny was, guess what my motive is.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
You're a bad guy?

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, because I feel like that I should have cooked
longer though Nay.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
I feel like that's one thing about aw.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
They be getting in and out of shit too quick,
so I'd be like, wait a minute, this is like
a two week thing.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Hey, sacrifice, good booking.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
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Want to give some love to that man. I just
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Speaker 3 (38:27):
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Speaker 3 (38:37):
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Speaker 3 (38:41):
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Speaker 2 (39:05):
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Speaker 1 (39:05):
Look, I know you're driving around. You see the billboards everywhere.
You're like, Ah, is this guy just like another one
of these billboard lawyers.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
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Speaker 1 (39:11):
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(39:32):
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Speaker 3 (39:38):
Let's get back to the podcast.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
You were saying that if you aren't a part of
the show, you're just watching it as a fan, you
don't want to know what's going on. Yeah, so you
see MJF drop his belt to Darby Allen. This was
the talk of the business. Everybody was like, what the fuck.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
MJF is on a run.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
Aw, he feels like it's so hot and he's you
know the guy.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
What is your reaction, just because I'm sure you don't
feel like that, you know that was happening.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
No, No, I feel like there could have been more
done for Darby for that moment.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Me personally, Yeah, Like it was almost so out of
nowhere that like it was like it didn't I mean,
I think they do.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
I feel here's the thing. I feel like it anchored
Darby a little bit too much because we're also watching
MJF go forty six minutes and the Texas Deathmatch. We're
also watching him go thirty eight minutes with Kenny Omega.
And you know, I'm not saying Darby's not qualified to
compete with that, but you got to make Darby qualified

(40:43):
to compete like that, And I feel like they didn't
do him a favor with that. But Darby is so
talented that now his run is making.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
Up for it. It's been great.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, because he's so talented.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
He's like dangling the carrot and like the new thing
is like you're gonna have to shave your head.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
I don't I don't think people care about his hair
like that, but whatever, but it's once again, it's I
think Darby is just so undeniably talented. He can make
everything feel more important, like he like he just had
he just killed it with Kevin Knight and I was
about to go this Saturday, I guess pack which is
in Wednesday, possibly against Okada. So like who's set in

(41:21):
his their schedules up to go like that on TV.
He's that he's just so undeniably talented that you can't like,
you can't like it's undeniable.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
You take crazy bumps all the time in your matches.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Not all the time, but a lot of times. You
take some crazy ship. That dude does it.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Every time every time. Yeah, my car, my card is
way more stamped, like because of the longevity of it,
Like I took scaffold bumps and falls and stuff, you know,
back in CZW. You know. But Darby he always feels
like he had a he had he had a real

(42:00):
good realization. And I was like, I didn't think about
but only in the Darby's type way. Would you ever
think about this? All these guys are going to do
all this crazy ship on the pay per views. I
gotta get this ship out on TV.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
So I was like on Wednesday, Yeah, you know what,
You're right right.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
So still it gets to this pay per views where
all the crazy shit is really going to happen all night.
He's going to get it every week. So I'm like, Okay,
what are.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
Your thoughts Because you have a guy like Dan Housen
who was at AW and didn't wrestle.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
I don't think he ever wrestled at AW.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
I think he's had a Battle Royal and he had
another match or something.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Like that to see him go to and he's been
killing I remember I first met him when we were
at Comic Con.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
Yeah, he was, he was signing. I think I met him.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
I was with you, Yeah, I think so, because he
had I never really had a relationship with him. I
didn't really like, I didn't have any ill will I
guess him or anything like that. But it's just never
we never really clicked.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Like I wonder what your thoughts is.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Just seeing somebody who is like an indies guy, indie
guy who's kind of created this thing and it's been
a thing, and it's it's working at a level that
like I don't think anybody saw him.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
I just don't like it's it's so happy for him.
I just don't want them to burn him out so
quick before the year is over.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
Yeah, I think they are doing that.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
I'm like, oh, I'm like, no, you got to cherish
this whole lot of Dan House. Yeah, it's a lot
and both shows. Yeah, So like he's busy. He is busy,
he's moving, he's at the he's at the headquarters, he's
at Missus House, he's a SmackDown, he's with stephen A. Smith.
I'm like, there's a lot of Dan housing, and congrats
to him. You shouldn't say no to all those opportunities.
Take them. But man, I want to see these opportunities

(43:33):
still happening in five years, three years, next year. I
want to see these opportunities still happening for you in growing,
you know. I like I want him to be a
meme that you can pop in on, like you know,
like he's already happening, but like, no, he's a mean Yeah,
he's always been one, but like but it's it's like
now it's a different level. I want to I want
I want to like cherish that rather than just be

(43:53):
like a flash. And he owns all his trademarks smart man,
which is awesome, but like he found he found the
flavor of ice crea that it works with the fans
are consuming very well. When the best wrestling experience I've
ever had was watching the anarchy in the Arena last Yeah,
that was that was a concert of the concert match,
one of the craziest.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
I mean, that is the craziest wrestling event. I mean
it was that and then WrestleMania forty Uh, you know
the Avengers end.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
After us you got hang Man and well.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
But but I don't think you understand Anarchon and the Arena.
I didn't watch I never saw it on TV, but
I was.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
In the building.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Yeah, when you guys are getting ready to do that match,
because the amount of craziness and like insane on point
spots people were hitting simultaneously all over the place. Yeah,
while Drowning Pool is playing. I mean, because how how
how much of that to you guys? Like obviously everybody

(44:52):
has to go over their matches beforehand. Do you guys
meet up and figure out like what's that meeting with prior.
Oh yeah, like you walk around the arena and say,
who I like, I like this?

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Oh yeah. So honestly, we only had one meeting that
was the night before and while the rain is empty,
and like we're just kind of like painting the picture.
First off, the bucks they hate. The year before that
was like twenty four. Yeah, that was in Vegas where
Darby sent wasn't name of fire, so they said putting

(45:24):
that together was a nightmare. And it's West Coast time,
so you got like this kind of window for the people.
They start put letting people in the doors, so you
can't really like, let me go see I think camp
doors are open, fans are here. I'm like, so now
you gotta wing it. So hopefully what you had you
thought of is still there. If it's not, I don't

(45:45):
know what you do. So they like Matt was like,
I promise I'll never do one of these again. I'll
never do one of these matches again. And then when
we started our story and everything, we started getting there
and we started getting closer to it. We saw all
the elements we had at play as far as like
people in the match, it was like, I think we
could do something cool. Here we have a chance, like
especially adding and Willow and Marina to really switch up

(46:08):
the dynamics. I'm like, oh, we can have some real fun.
Then Kenny got involved in Moxley and Joe. Then you
had Hobbs coming in like you had. I'm like, we
got a lot of great like elements, and then Shabata.
It was so we had so many real cool like
because it was just like spots, we had characters to
really play with and like, we have a lot of

(46:29):
characters and mixed stories we can really mix up and
have fun with. And I think that's where like, that's
honestly where I felt like the shift in a w
we got that momentum back. It was after that match
because everybody was so unselfish. Everybody's like Moxley I was
like hey Max, can you take Staples, Like yeah yeah.

(46:49):
From Marina, I was like okay, cool, And I was
like Matt was like, hey, Willa pick me up for
the tombstone. We'll do the thing. And then like Claul,
he was like yeah, get me on this. Joe's like yeah,
I'll take this. Kenny was like yeah, I'll take this
dump into the table.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
And your idea to take the staple in your tongue.
That's how you pay off in the spot.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
Yeah, does it hurt because you kept it in for
a while. It's on stage and the tongue it was
still in there.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
So it's I.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Don't, I don't think about it, just do it so
before I forget and think that I don't want to do.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
Still, and then you had, you had all the fun
you had yours come out when you disappeared, when you
disappeared and came back with the fork lin and you
jumped down like the dark Knight.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah dog, oh my god, that's what I'm saying. It's
like then like Willow got her ear keep pad locked
into a chain on the steps, so the cramp crowds
were chating, please help Willow, Please help Willow. So it's
like we had so many elements and ideas to play with.
It became fun. And then everybody was so unselfish. Nobody

(47:57):
felt like I don't I'll look stupid or I'm too
like a character, like oh, that's gonna kill my. Everybody
was like, let's just go, and we all were laughing,
putting it together. We were cracking jokes. Moxley was so
loose and just having fun, like there's the Moxley we love.
There's like it's like everybody was like, we're back to
our friends and brothers. And the girls weren't nervous. They

(48:20):
were like ready. They were actually like cause when you
put the intergender sometimes like it can be nerve wrecking
for a lot of people. They were like, yeah, I'm ready,
let's have fun. Marina looked like a g Willow and
Hobbs stepped up like crazy. You know. Everybody was just
proud of everybody else else's performance, you know, and like

(48:41):
me getting the pen at the end, I'm like, look
at all these main inventors like Kenny and all this stuff,
and then like get the pine, you know, and which
led to all.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
In did you guys get back on the other side
of the curtain and just everybody be like, wow, did
it feel it was?

Speaker 2 (48:55):
We felt like we were like we did because like
when all these pieces is all these camera cuts, so
you got to make sure so and so fall through
table to get ready for Willow to come out do
this and so good. Yeah, and then like Claudia and
Samoa Joe go all the way out of the building

(49:16):
to the front like like fountain and then Shabata and
Uda are like in the back and he's putting a
barberire thing around his foot and kicking them and putting
them in a trash can. So we got to make
sure like, Okay, that spot's done, the camera's cut back. Okay,
we're here in the camera in the middle of the ring,
and we gotta do this live live. Everything has to

(49:37):
be forward motion. You can't like the second somebody does this,
it messes up the next thing, which messes up the
next thing. Now everybody's like it's a domino effect. It's
so rare that everything went boom boom boom room Like
Kenny Moon salt off the balcony onto everybody, Kenny's health
we're worried about, Oh my god is and when w

(50:00):
Angel off the stage exploding the table. Yeah, it's just
so many different elements in so many different ways for
something to go wrong that didn't. So we were just
like we had fun though, but it was it was
a blast. Aw's the only place you can have something
like that.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
I saw. There's some reports and obviously who knows, you know,
Twitter wrestling.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Twitter gets shipped wrong all the time. But Alistair Black
negotiating to possibly come back to AW I thought that
was like, hmm, like that was.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
Oh, I don't know, Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
I think I saw like Sean Ross sapp report that
that was a false so false, okay, okay, So I'll
just leave that to the reports. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
I just wonder, like, when you see somebody leave and.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Like a year later they get released, do you like
is it like well you like I kind of feel
like if I was Tony Kahn, I'd be like, hey man.

Speaker 3 (50:47):
You chose.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
I just hope that Alistair I'll speak to. I hope
Tommy finds what he's looking for in this industry this
part of his career.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
I know his wife is incredible too, that.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
Both very talented, incredible people, incredible talents in itself. I
just hope they find something that gives them the type
of I don't know what it is that he's really
whatever it is, I hope there's they find someplace that
gives them that. Yeah, you know what I mean, because
he has so many great ideas. He's one of the

(51:21):
guys that got me in NXT, like him talking with
Terry Taylor and is like, this is a guy you
got to watch out for and he did tape Stays
with him in twenty seventeen. You know, my last indie
run I was he was the guy I was going to.
So he really helped my mind a lot at that
stage in my career. So I just hope like he
finds the place that gives him whatever it is that

(51:46):
can fulfill him in the industry again.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
Yeah, I feel like too with like Zelina.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
It's like it's it's it sucks when like there's like
a couple because it feels like, no matter what, when
they become a TV prom together, now they're kind of
tied to each other, Yelena.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
I feel like at Backlash in Puerto Ricano, perto.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
Rico is like I'm like, oh my god, yeah, I'm
saying yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
So I don't know, man, it's definitely. Do you feel
like the industry is changing for the good or the
better right now? Because it feels like, however people feel
about TKO's involvement in wrestling now, it has changed maybe,
like I guess the business model a bit for certain

(52:29):
people like you.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
It's only changed the business model for w B. Yeah.
I think like ww is so vast right now. It
exists only within its own world. And its own bubble.
I don't think it affects the rest of the wrestling
world too much unless releases and stuff happen, or they're
buying out TV rights for other stations or like conglomerations
are like I feel like everybody else the wrestling world

(52:51):
is like like flourishing. I wish what I will say
about outside of like the big TV, like like the
aw's the WS. I really do wish like the independence
was flourishing a little bit more right because a lot
of guys are getting like you're hearing about him at
twenty three, twenty four, twenty five and getting signed. I

(53:13):
really wish that these guys would get like become the
indie stars that we used to be watching.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
I think Zilla's doing a pretty good job right now.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
He is. He's holding out and he's like becoming the
indie guy, you know, he's becoming like like man like
PWG would be so helpful right now to be like, oh,
we're doing an All Star weekend, like who's out there?
Who's out there to be an all Star? And then
you'll see the names pop up, like who are these guys?
Like I heard him, I've kind of seen him and

(53:41):
then like then you got to watch PWG to become
a fan of these guys. You know, I really wish
we had that to find out who these guys are.
And I saw at the House of Glory. Shit, that
Charlie Mason guy, who is.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
I didn't know his shtick. I thought he was being just.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
I thought he was gay because he kept like licking
the sweat off of hit the dudes Like no, it's
like a no no, right.

Speaker 3 (54:04):
So I was like with Zilla's girl and I was like, yeah,
it was like this dude's thing is he like geh?
She's like no, no, no, He's like Charles Manson. He's
like a serial killer.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
And I was like, oh, which that would do really
great stuff on TV. Yeah, he would do great stuff.
And he yeah he's fire, Yeah he's fire. But yeah,
I just wa was like there was like more platforms
to showcase these next year.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Four rope I think is bubbling fourth rope. If they
they got to get more consistent, they got to do
more than like once a quarter. Yeah, they got right
now it's like every three or four months you get
a fourth rope.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
Yeah, and like they also got to compete with and
like on the big weekends, like the wressel Cads they
got to do a fourth robe they like on uh.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
Yeah, they didn't do anything may A weekend, which was
like to me, a mistake.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
That's what I'm saying, Like consistency is key.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Because like, no matter what, GCW is doing something Mania
week exactly, and the Juggalo ships happened in many a
week Dude, Like I was at I was at blood
Sport and Stone Cold Steve Bolston's stand there under the
camera watching the shot.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
I'm right behind him. I'm like, who would have thought?
I'm like, this is the time for you to be
on the watching like a non WW product like Naddy
was on the show. There has talent stuff in Shana
Basler and they had they killed it. But like I'm like,
but this is the times to be putting on shows

(55:20):
when you can have like a stone Coltsy Vaults and
just like you know what, I'm gonna watch And he
sat there and watched every.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
Match from nobody would expect that either.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
No, but that's why you gotta run. That's why you
gotta run these shows because you will miss opportunities like this.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
That's why Sean Michaels watches that ship. Yes, like that's
like his ursion and like scouty I watched him with Sean, Yes,
what can you say about his because you've obviously been
under his wing at NXT.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
What can you just say about Sean?

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Because it feels like he's so good at developing talent,
so good at like getting people ready.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
He probably has the most like challenging job because he
has to put in the time. First off, he has
to choose who's picking it up. Then he has to
put in the time, effort, resources, creativity, promotion ads, make
sure I hope they don't get hurt, and like you

(56:17):
got to put in all that for for.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
Them to.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Pluck them at any moment, like oh yeah, by the way,
this is the last show, but he has I had
all this, Like that's really challenging because in main roster
you're not plucked in to go anywhere else. You're just there.
So like that's so challenging to do. The women are
picking up so fast, Like I feel like NXT has
spit out so many great women it's so insane. Like

(56:45):
and I watched it. I was in the system. I
was like, Oh, she's gone, Oh she's going, She's going
she's the next one coming up, and sure enough, boom
boom boom, like a machine, they're up there. You know.
I feel like that's they do such a good job
with the women that the ratio with the women and

(57:06):
the men is so like off and it's and it's
hard to pinpoint why, but I just say, I just
give credit to the women. Like he has he always
he can always plug and play a talent. Yeah, I
women's champion. He has the luxury of that, but the
men is a challenged.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
I saw him say, or I don't know if it
was if someone had said that he was begging to
keep Javon one more year, oh my god, which I
think I agree it would have because.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
What's he missing? Now? What's what's it like?

Speaker 3 (57:38):
I feel like you should have went on a heel run. Yeah,
but what would he have missed because imagine if Trick
would have got called up.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
But that's what I'm saying prior.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
To him going on this heel tear and.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
But that's what I'm saying, like, what would this whole
past year with Javon, what would he have missed out
on for being an NXC for another year? He wouldn't
missed out on anything. Maybe a mania, but there's always
going to be a mania. What would he have missed
out on this year for just waiting another year? Maybe more?
Check that's it. But he was going to get the
bag no matter what, you know, and he's young, he's

(58:08):
not going to.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
He would have been the face of the brand for.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
He would have had And what did I tell you
about trick.

Speaker 3 (58:14):
On the TNA and holding that belt.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Have to see him as a top guy to believe
he is. That's why j C. Jane is doing so
well right now on her debut because we've seen her
for three years holding the top belt, getting it multiple
times and main eventing with it. So now what do
we see her with? Oh, we're gonna put her with
other manors because we perceive her as that.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
Now it's happened with Oba. It was like it's like, yo,
you're going.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
You're because we see you as that got the destroyer,
the ruler. We see it, So put him with a brock.
We trust it, We believe it.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Is there a piece of advice or something that Sean
taught you that you applied and still apply to this day.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
There I would say there's two guys there Sean, and
there's Terry Taylor.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
Okay, Sean.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
For what I said earlier, he's like the guys like,
we gotta work a little harder. That that still rings
true in my head all the time. Terry has a
bunch of them. But there was a I'll go with
Sean first, because that's what you asked Sean, I would say.

(59:27):
He used himself as an example. He was like, when
you're not in the title picture, you got to figure
out different type of stories to tell. So because your
whole existence can't be about just the belt, because that's
why we all here.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
And there's only so only one guy can be like.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Why are we all here? That's like like NBA player,
why are you here to be NBA champion? There's like
five hundred of you. Yeah, so of course, so he
he said like he didn't handle his first run as
well because he couldn't handle being the top guy. He
it just it was too much pressure on him, which

(01:00:08):
is a loss of smile and his other things. He
just didn't handle the pressure of being the top guy
very well. So when he values his second run so
much more because he started figuring out like I'm good
at being one a or A one B or two
A to set up the main guy and tell different
types of stories and tug on different heartstrings and emotions.

(01:00:32):
So that's where like him and Jericho and like the
wife and everything, punching back and stuff. Him and Hunter
like betraying his betraying his best friend. He he's I
found that was my skill and niche to be like
the Hogan thing like him and Taker, they were never
about belts. On the second run, his best stories were

(01:00:54):
about other things, other emotional things. So I was like,
oh snap, that's where me and Hangman I figure it out.
That's where men like I was like, Okay, how do
I make myself important if the belt's not in the line,
because everybody's fans are conditioned. If the belt's not on
the line, why do we care? So how do you
make people care without being in the title hunt out?

(01:01:14):
That's where it clicked for Sean with me with Sean's
personal advice, the other one with Terry Taylor, he was like,
like he helped me figure out how to perform like
it's real, like as in like for the camera too.
He's like He's like no, like you know, everybody does
something something, the crowd the camera. He's like, why are

(01:01:36):
you looking at them? You're not You're not in war
with them, You're at war with your opponent. So that's
where I started conducting the camera with my eyes. I
started like when I did something like I would look
at my hands, my hands, how do you feel about
what your hands are about to do? Am I sad
about my opponent? Am I like shaking? Am I scared?

(01:01:58):
Or am I aggressive? Am I angry? Then I take
that anger and aggression I put in my opponent. Am
I angry? Or am I like? This is my friend?

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
Like, so now I'm playing with different emotions live with
the camera, and the camera follows where my eyes are looking.
If I look up at the lights, they shoot wide.
If I look up down on the ground, they shoot
at the ground. If I like start firing up and
I look at my opponent, they shoot him. Then they
shoot back at me. Then they get that shot of

(01:02:29):
like looking through here, of like what I'm about to do.
So I terry tapped that into my brain and then
it became about like he said, we had a skull session,
long table like this. He watched whatever matches for the week.
He turned it off and he was talking about the

(01:02:50):
business right now is going up and down stuff? Right
now we're in a down phase. It's twenty nineteen. Yeah,
He's like, we're in a downface. We're looking right now.
I'll let you know, right now the business is in
need of somebody else to take the reins.

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
Yeah, twenty nineteen was rough. There was a couple of
years there I was I was just not Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
So that was like before COVID and all that stuff.
He was like, somebody in this room is going to
change the wrestling world? Why not? Why not be you?
And I was like, yeah, you know what, why not
be me? No? And you're looking at the room. It's like,
you know, you look at every performance center room. You're like,
who could be? You know? But like then you're like,

(01:03:29):
you know what, what's stopping me? And I always kept
that in my head. I still text Harry to this
day and be like, I still remember that speech and
I took you. I took that challenge. And he was like,
that's why I always say it. It can happen to anybody,
but I'm glad it happened to me.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
Okay, let's take I want to take Cody the Bucks
and Kenny out of the picture. Who is on the
mount Rushmore? Aw So no Cody, No, no Cody, no Bucks,
no Kenny.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Moxley, ding Jericho Danielson. Danielson shout out to him, all
I respect that for.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
Had you and Booker t squashed your beef that started.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
On lad We've been on like three flights since.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
On the same flight. Yeah, did you guys talk? Did
you guys even know?

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
He looks at me every time he goes and gets
on the flight, like, and then we sit right next
Like I was in the aisle, he's over there.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
I'm like, nothing, No, jeez. I met him in at
that center a picture. Yes, I walked up to him.
I was like, hey, man, I was like, can we
get a flick? I just left the press room. He's
like I was like, yeah, I'm friends with Swerve.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
And then right when I said that, my boy took
the picture and he was like, and I stepped on
his shoe but wasn't on purpose.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
It was on accident. But he was not in a good mood.
I've never met a more miserable He's met a lot
of He's met.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
A lot of my friends.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Yeah, uh, when when's when's music coming out?

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
What's to break down the music.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
EP is dropping very very soon right now. We just
hitting and hit hit different. It's still rolling, still streaming
very well. Myself rest in peace. Profit believe you met
Prophet before produced the record. We put it out in
November twenty twenty five. He passed away in January, and
but we did get to he did get to see
it in the arenas, like when we brought it out

(01:05:33):
when I came out back in full gear, putting Ray
Kwan now a Rock and Roll Hall of Famer Ray
Kwan Wu Tang on the record. And my man Montez,
you know, has been here right here, wrapped on the
show and everything. So I was able to get one
of my good friends, a great producer, one of my
good friends, and a legend to all collaborate on this
record that's still spinning. It's doing really well and uh,

(01:05:56):
EP going to be dropping soon. Just got Max b
on two features.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
Shocked man who you thought wrestling fan?

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Never? I never would have thought, let alone a wrestling
fan of mine. That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
So how do you get people to like the new
theme song? Because I feel like the old theme song
so crazy that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
That's so crazy. Yeah, but it worked in a great time.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
But I want to know, like, the new theme song
is it? Do you feel that it's not?

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
The fans are not as happy with it because they
love the old one. I got fans that are happy
with it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
Okay, okay, I just the old one is just it's
it's I always wonder what that decision is when you
got a theme song that everyone.

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
Sings along to, what is the thought process of being Like, listen,
ask the lawyers, Oh, is that what happened?

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
Ask the lawyers what happened?

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
So you couldn't use the old one?

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
I decided not to or it was a legal thing.
Ask the lawyers on that one.

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
So you can't use it? Is that what I'm gathering?

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
I chose not to.

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
Okay, damn, such a great fucking it was.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
Got a lot of knowledge out of it in the
first three years.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
Man, all right, Well, that that's I always I wondered that.
I was like, I was like, what the fuck this guy?

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
Joint dog like, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
Oh well, well at least now we have some answers there.
All right, So EP's coming soon? Are you wrestling Wednesday? Wednesday?

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
You should see me on Dynamite this coming Wednesday. Yeh.
Where's it at uh Ashville, Ashville, Carolina?

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Don't know? Oh yeah, yeah, Ashville.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
That's when they had the accident.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
They had them.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
Yeah, so we always come back to do something like
charity charitable shows. Friend, that's where FTR and where Copeland live.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Oh ship chat.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
Yeah, such a great return. By the way, he's man.
One thing Cope knows how to do. He knows how
to do a lot of great things. He knows how
to make a return. He knows how to make a
damn return for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:07:51):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
Well, listen, everybody go watch a w Wednesday nights. It's
on tn T and HBO Max. HBO Max is the
best because you could just man, because I don't have cable,
so almost like and then Collision is Saturdays Saturdays eight
o'clock TNT.

Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
On tn T. And then what's the next pay per view.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Double and nothing? May twenty fourth in Queens, New York.
It's Queen Queens Baby.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
There gonna be another anarchy at the Arena Stadium Stampede.

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
They just announced it with Jericho. It hurts the nak
it against which they still got some members to more
people to add to the team against Ricochet and the
demand oh I didn't see that. Yeah, yeah, that's this
past Wednesday. Just put that out there. Well, they got
a big that's the first match that that they've announced
for that, and I think Kazuko, Kata and Tequesta.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
Gonna be a very bit some big shoes to fill
from last year's anarchy.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
Good luck in a tennis stadium at that all.

Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
Do we know where all end is going to be yet?

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Wembley?

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
Oh it is, so let's go going back to to Wembley.
So now I gotta go to So that's Mike's use
to go to London? Yeah, because I sure the fucking
going the Saudi Arabia. You hear that, your tk O fucks.
I'm not getting bombed in Dubai. You motherfuckers. London, we're outside.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
Outside with it there. It is that that might be
probably the best fan base. Them motherfuckers will follow you
to your hotel room the London, well yeah, they will swarm.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
Do you like do you deal with like fans stepping
a bit because wrestling fans are very I feel like
they're pretty harmless, but they're also very like bro, they
don't they are also I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
Never I've never had those issues like like I said,
I feel like like you put out certain energy that
you get back like, but also there's randoms that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Like did you saw the cmpunk video or he slapped
the dude's phone and the guy went on a fucking
media run like asking.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
That's putting out the energy? Yeah, you can't put out
that type of energy, you know what I mean? So
you get get the energy out what you get.

Speaker 3 (01:09:49):
But I saw the angle where like Bailey and like
AJ were having it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
I get that, But then you get somebody else's step
in because you don't want to put yourself in that
you know that heater.

Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
Because because then it's gonna keep happening and it's gonna
get you get it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
And you could be right, you could be meaning, you
could be meaning to do the right thing and however,
but the guy probably deserved it. But now you're in
that ship storm.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
Now and now he's got not only can you get sued,
but now other fans are going to try to bait you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Yes, like I said, you you the more energy you
put out like that, the more it's gonna come back.
So you just gotta be careful with that kind of stuff. Hey,
I never dealt with that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
Do you guys get an internal email from Tony or
from like the PR team when like Ricochet says crazy
shit on Twitter.

Speaker 3 (01:10:32):
Like, hey guys, let's not cross the line on Twitter.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Hey, I was. I was just I definitely was one
of those guys saying like firing back and saying ship like.

Speaker 3 (01:10:41):
No, no, for sure, I've seen you fire back.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
But yeah, but now it's like I gotta It's like
it's not worth it. It's not it's not He's like,
you know what, this is not going to be the
last guy that says some dumb shit about you or
say not like your promos, not like your matches.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
Wrestling fans are toxic as fuck, especially the ones on Twitter,
like everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):
Those aren't wrestling fans whoever they are.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
That's what I'm saying, Like, like we got to also
be like Twitter is not wrestling fans. They're not showing
up to like your signings and stuff like that. They're
not showing up to shows. They're just watching on their
phone or online. So we got to take that and divide.

Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
Them by Like I feel the same thing with the
with the hip hop world, where it's like there'll be
people who like J Cole will drop an incredible album
and like a bunch of people who would not go
out of it. Ja Cole said it perfectly on his interview run.
He said, there's people who are chiming in on artists
and music that they wouldn't if it was two thousand

(01:11:39):
and one go to the store to buy. Yeah, so
it's like you're not even.

Speaker 3 (01:11:42):
Like invested in the product enough to even like you
don't like this shit.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
He's marketing to people that love his music or love
a certain type of love. Yeah, he's targeting the people.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
If you bought the album, if you spend money on
the album and you have an opinion that's how it
used to be.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
But you're listening regardless. Thanks for the stream, right, thanks
for talking about it, and even if it is bad, okay, cool,
Like I want to listen to how bad it is,
and then your perception might be changed. So at least
you're like, even the negative publicity is getting more people
to like listen to you, so you might as well
take them too with you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
Right, we'll listen swerve. I appreciate you pulling up again.
Go support this guy's music and watch Wednesday night. He'll
be back on TV. Uh is aw similar to like
like like are you doing just Wednesdays, Wednesday, Saturdays?

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
I could as a neat book anywhere?

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
Got it there it is man, swerve, appreciate you brother.
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(01:12:54):
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Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
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Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
Shout out to Ease