BONUS EPISODE - Can Josh Turek Flip An Iowa Senate Seat From Red To Blue? - The Chuck ToddCast

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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box and free croissants for life when you visit wildgrain
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podcast at checkout. This is a sponsor I absolutely embrace,
so use that code. So about six months ago, when
Josh Turik, who is now the Democratic nominee for US

(01:45):
Senate in Iowa, was first deciding to get into this
race in Iowa, I interviewed him on this very podcast.
We talked last November, and it was really sort of
a what I call my James Stockdale sets of question
who are you? Why are you here? Type of get
to know you candidate interview and a little bit of

(02:05):
a biographical conversation, but also sort of where he stands,
you know, sort of the basics the basic things that
anybody wants to know of a US Senate candidate. But
it's just that who are you, get to know you,
why are you in politics a little bit about his
background as a paralympian. We have a little bit on that,

(02:27):
but given that there's now a lot more attention on him,
his candidacy, and the fact that Iowa is probably arguably
ground zero for the battle of the midterms, right with
three hotly contested House seats, an open Senate seat that's
very competitive, and an open governor seat that's very competitive.

(02:49):
If Democrats want to be a national governing party again
and want to want to claim a blue wave successful year,
it begins in Iowa, right if they are If Iowa
turns blue, you can absolutely classified twenty twenty six as
a wave. And if it does, it's going to be
in the backs of candidates like Josh Turck. So with that,

(03:13):
enjoy this conversation of getting to know the new Democratic
Senate nominee in the state of Iowa. Josh Turck. So
joining me now is one of the most decorated Olympians
in Iowa history. Josh Turik is candidate for the US Senate,
but born with spina bifida, he ended up making a

(03:36):
name for himself in playing professionally wheelchair basketball, earning a
gold medal as the leader of a US Olympic team
at the Paralympics, and he's now a politician. Not the
blazing a trail that, frankly is actually not a first
time trail when it comes to that people. Certainly we've

(03:58):
had our share of athletes go into politics. Josh is
from the western part of the state. It's the state
I'm the least familiar with council bluffs. He will correct
me if I'm wrong, which also means he's sort of
in that weird no man's land. How much Iowan, how
much Nebraskan, which I'm gonna give my hard time about.
But with that, let's talk a little bit about your

(04:22):
campaign and who you are. Josh Turk. It's nice to
meet you.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, Chuck, thanks for having me first. I'm gonna have
to correct you on I'm not an Olympian. I'm a Paralympian.
I'm a four time Paralympian, time gold medalist.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
The Summer Olympian, I mean, it's part of the Olympics,
isn't it all the you know? I mean, well, the
Summer Olympics is the largest sporting event on Earth in
terms of total athletes and total countries. In the Summer Paralympics,
which immediately follows the Olympics, is the second largest sporting
event on Earth. And I'm a very proud Paralympian and

(04:58):
two time gold medalist. And then and the other correction is,
you're right, I am a politician, but I really would
define myself as a representative.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
A politician can be a bit of a pejorative, no,
And I get that.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
I mean just like journalists could be a bit of
a pejorative these days, right, you know, or a member
of the media, if you will. But let me start
with Eric. You know, if let's start with your life
as a professional athlete. You know, you're born with spina biffita.
You didn't probably think as a kid you were going
to be a professional athlete. Walk me through that.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah. Sure. I was born and raised in Council Bluss, Iowa.
Council Bluss is a very working class community. Sixty five
percent of my community lives at or below the poverty line.
I grew up to a large family, three sisters, one brother,
and we grew up with a lot of economic struggle.
We went to the Goodwill for our clothes. We shared clothes,

(05:50):
went to the free summer lunch programs. There were times
where my mom put our grocery bill on the credit card.
So certainly somebody is familiar with a lot of economic
struggle of what a lot of people are going through
right now, both in Iowa and around the country. And
then I was was born with my condition. I was
born with a condition called spina bifida. This was due
to my father's exposure to agent orange and Vietnam. I

(06:13):
had my first suit do you.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Directly do you is that's a direct fact that this
has been directly yeah, responsible, Yes.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
It's one of the few times where the government has
had to admit culpability. When when I was younger, we
were part of of the lawsuit and did the DNA testing.
And yet because of that, actually receive my health care
that is related to my spina bifida through the.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
VA and so so yes, and that's for Lily, right,
that's for life. You're on trycare for life because of that.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
That is correct, anything that is directly related to my
to my spina bifida. So in my spina bifida, I
had my first surgery at one day old. I had
twenty one surgeries before I was twelve, almost all of
which took place at Shriner's Hospital because it was the
only way that my family could afford to do it.
So I'm certainly somebody that a deeply personal way, I

(07:04):
understand the importance of affordable and accessible health care for individuals. Thankfully,
for me, I found wheelchair basketball at a young age.
I went to an adaptive sports program in Omaha, Nebraska,
and it exposed me to all kinds of adaptive sports.
And I come from a big sports family. Actually, both
my mother and sister were basketball players and went on
to play professional basketball. And really that was what I

(07:27):
was struggling. Legitimately, I was somebody that was bullied so bad.
It's hard enough to go through life well as a
kid with economic struggle, but then you had a healthcare
struggle and it was difficult for me and was bullied
so bad. I actually I left public school for a bit,
but it provided me. It provided me really social setting
and everything that I needed to be able to be successful.

(07:49):
Because of wheelchair basketball, I was ultimately able to get
a college scholarship along with the help of vocational rehabilitation.
Had it not been for wheelchair basketball, I don't think
I would have even gone on to college. And I've
had a very successful collegiate career in wheelchair basketball, scored
over four thousand career points and sixty three points in
a game, which are still records at my school. And

(08:09):
then I had the opportunity to do something that I
didn't even know existed, which was professional wheels for basketball,
which doesn't exist in America. It only exist over in Europe.
So spent some time over there.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Where did you live in Europe? Or where the various
Where was your franchise? Where was Yes? I was able
to play in outside of Milan, Italy. I played in
the south of France, which was an amazing opportunity, and
then played in Madrid, Spain and in Billbospang.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Those were the places. Let me played.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Let me ask you, and maybe you've I don't know
if you've thought about this, but why has Europe been
on the forefront of Why don't we have this in America?
And if you think about it, the first women's professional
basketball leagues were all in Europe. Weren't here? Have you?

(08:56):
I'm just curious why it's to me too, ad that
you had to leave America to go pursue the stream.
Why do you think we don't value it here.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
I think that our sports can be very masculinely driven,
and I think the European ideal for sports is more
open to the idea of female sports and to adapt
to sports in a way that that for whatever reason,
you know, the American paradigm on sports is just dramatically different.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
It is.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
It's it's much more inclusive in that sense. In America,
it was a struggle for us just to be able
to get a handful of individuals just to come in
and watch us, if you're like family and friends. And
yet when we're over and we're able to get in
front of thousands and thousands of folks, So it's a it's.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Just a different culture, yeah, I mean, it's a.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Totally totally different sports culture. And it was an amazing
opportunity to be able to to live in experience, especially
as a poor kid from from Iowa that had gotten
his bachelor's degree in history. It was an amazing opportunity
to be able to see these places I had only
been able to read about in history books, and to
be able to you learn so much about yourself and
about others and societies and social safety nets when you're

(10:09):
when you're living overseas, and yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
It was an amazing opportunity for me. How's your Italian
a death, Probably it's better than mine, So don't worry
whatever you.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Say my Spanish, My Spanish is good.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
My wife is Dominican by by birth and Spanish by
passport and met her when I was playing out in Madrid,
and so certainly that one is is pretty Vanish, a.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Little bit better than Italian. Right now, what you learned
one more man's language, though you should be able to
understand all the other thing. So to turn to politics
if you weren't a politic.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
The one thing I want to I want to cover
on this is we we didn't get to it. I
did end up the highlight of my basketball career was
being a four time Paralympian and two times. Yeah correct,
and especially we're a basketball nation, but we had gone
twenty eight years without winning gold and so we went
from nineteen eighty eight all the way until twenty sixteen
without winning a gold medal, so some I'm really really

(11:07):
proud of. That was the way I ended my career
was with winning back to back gold medals.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
So that was the end of my basketball career before
we jumped to you. Actually, your next it is you
had such success in that phase of your life, how
hard was it to walk away?

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Not hard at all. Actually, for me, from the very beginning,
the goal was just to be able to represent my
country and one Paralympics and to maybe have the opportunity
to win one gold medal was always the goal for me.
So the fact that I was able to represent in
four Paralympic games and win two gold medals, ultimately Father

(11:46):
Time is undefeated too. By the time I got to
my last Paralympics, I mean right that the athlete is
unfortunately we have to die to death, and we spend
tens of thousands of hours at trying to become great
and become an expert field and then it gets taken
away from you. But by the time that I got
to that last Paralympics, which was in Tokyo twenty twenty,

(12:07):
which ended up being twenty twenty one because of COVID,
I knew that that was going to be the last
basketball game that I ever was going to play. And
I was really really clear too that I wanted to
have as successful of a part B of my life
as my part A was, and my Part A was
pretty successful. So it was beautiful actually because in Tokyo,
I knew that was going to be the last games
I ever was going to play, so I was able

(12:27):
to smell the roses a little bit and appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Being the How what was it like to watch to
be a spectator in twenty twenty four.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
It's one of the only times actually that I missed it, truthfully,
you know, and because because there's so many of those
guys that are still on that team that I'm very
very close with. You develop a genuine brotherhood with these
guys that you go through so much struggle with. But
it was beautiful to be able to see them they
actually won. It was the we became the first team
to ever win three gold medals in a row, So

(12:58):
I was it was amazing to be able to watch
them and support them as I was going through It
was nice.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
Actually, it was kind of cathartic for me.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
I'd watch a little bit of their games as after
I was going out knocking doors and crawling stairs trying
to win my reelection.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Right, So tell me about the decision to go into politics.
Was there other fields that you were contemplating, and you know,
Why what drew you to the political space.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, well, two things. One is I've been a director
of a nonprofit organization for ten years and what we
do as we provide free summer camps to disabled kids
and adaptive spurts opportunity just to be a role model
to that community and to be able to give back.
When I finished with my basketball career as well, I
got certified and what's called an assistive technology professional. So

(13:46):
I was federally certified to be able to assist, to
assess and provide mobility devices, manual wheelchairs and power wheelchairs
for individuals with disabilities. And I was working with children,
I was working with newly in individuals. But where I
was really spending the vast majority of my time where
with individuals with progressive conditions, conditions like muscular dystrophe and

(14:07):
lou Garrig's disease. And what we were showing was every
single day we were dealing with unnecessary denials and delays.
And what we were showing internally is since Iowa and
Nebraska had privatized their Medicaid system, a one thousand percent
increase in denial rate. I thought that this was fundamentally
wrong and immoral and that somebody should do something. I mean,

(14:27):
it's literally maximizing profits off the backs of the most vulnerable.
I mean, in the case of als, oftentimes it's eighteen
months or even shorter from assessment. All the way. These
people don't have time for denials and delays. And then
I had found out that Iowa had never had a
permanently disabled member of the legislature, even though we're a
state of one hundred and fifty years. In a governing

(14:49):
body of one hundred and fifty members, We've got one
in five islands are either blind, death, intellectually disabled, or
physically disabled. And I thought to myself, this is probably
why we're seeing these barriers to healthcare and te employment
is because of the complete and total lack of representation.
And although I was out in very red western Iowa
and they said, Josh, you can't win as a Democrat

(15:10):
out here, I said, I'm going to do this the
same way that I've done with my basketball career, try
to win gold medals. I'm going to go out and
I'm going to outwork my opponent every single day. And
that's what I did for me. That meant going out
every day. Ryann orsheine hot or cold and dragging my
wheelchair upstairs to have conversations with Republicans and independence because
it didn't work any other way.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
You know, it's interesting for you to say that about
Iowa because given that Tom Harkin, the former senator, and
Bob Dole were basically the godfathers of the ADA Act,
and in fact, I mean, look, when I was growing
up there, it weren't very many ramps. You know, I
had an elderly grandmother who we were constantly lifting a

(15:51):
chair and all this stuff. I mean, I don't think
people realize as and we are a long way away
from everything being accessible for somebody who needs to use
a wheelchair these days. But to think where we were
in the seventies and eighties compared to where we are today,
it's because of an Iowa senator and a Kansas Senator

(16:11):
from each side of the aisle. And there was a
lot of momentum for that. And it does feel as
if even the that the EIGHTYA feels like something that
hasn't it sort of hit a wall a little bit.
I imagine you have a lot of opinions about the ADAI.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, you're certainly correct. I mean a handful of things there.
One is he's a good friend of mine now, but
he really is my political hero is Senator Tom Harkin.
And this, in truth is one of the reasons why
I'm doing this is this is his seat that is
up now after twelve years, you know, thirty years he
was our Iowa senator and now it's been held by

(16:48):
a Republican for the last twelve years. And myself, in
so many disabled Iolands, so many disabled Americans, I'm only here.
All the opportunities that I've been given for occupationally or
educationally is only because of the work that Senator Harken
and Congressman Tony Coeo and as you said, Bob Dole

(17:09):
ended up doing on the American with Disabilities Act. They
literally provided me in so many disabled Americans and on
ramp on a society to be able to be successful.
And one of the reasons why I'm doing this is
because here in Iowa, we deserve to once again have
a senator that is going to fight for the people,
and fight for the middle class, and fight for social
and economic justice, and fight for these social safety nets

(17:32):
that have allowed me to be successful in my life. Medicare, Medicaid,
social security and not just look out for billionaires in
large corporations. It really is, I'm only here because of
Senator Harkin, and I want to be able to continue
his legacy and champion and carrying that flag and fighting
for the people and fighting for healthcare.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
It's possible that our friend Tony Coelo might even be
listening right now. He's somebody that I've known a long
time in politics and very I mean, look, this is
the past was ultimately one of the most passionate things
he worked on. I know that. And and uh, he's
very sensitive. I mean I would get grief from him
if he ever thought I wasn't giving somebody, you know,

(18:11):
if I if I wasn't giving a benefit of doubt
due to some sort of physical issue, you know, whether
it was somebody with a with a verbal issue or
something with their physical traits. And uh, he's a I
consider him a longtime friend, and I imagine you he's
he's filled with advice.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
I bet in your campaign he absolutely is. And I've
been I've been grateful to to be able to have
now a friendship with with both Congssmen Coeo and and
and Senator Harkin. And this is this is This is
certainly one of the reasons why I'm doing this is
to continue on that legacy. One of the things that
Senator Harkin talks about is one of the beauties of
the American with Disabilities Act is that not one Nickel

(18:53):
actually went to an individual with a disability. Is all
it was doing was just evening the plane field. It
was just providing an equality of opportunity to individuals. And
that's what certainly, that's what we're fighting for.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
It was equal access, not equal outcomes. Equal access. That's right,
that's correct, you know, which seems to be I mean,
this is you know, it's it's one thing you know
in those that that physically have things that they have
to overcome, but then there are you know, this is
the same conversation we're trying to have about immigration, you know,

(19:29):
the same conversation we're trying to have about any body
that's trying to live a free life, right and wants
to have equal opportunity, equal access, not necessarily equal outcome.
Can you what do you think is the hardest part
of convincing, because I do think when you explained to
anybody left or right that it's about equal access, not

(19:51):
equal outcome. Nobody's against equal access, you know, it's the
equal outcome conversation that becomes the debate about all.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah. Absolutely. The way that I would say that is
when I'm out there. I represent the reddest district that
is represented by a Democrat that was won on election day.
So Trump won my county by twenty points. I represent
two communities in the Iowa Legislature, Carter Lake, which Trump
won by eighteen points, and my hometown of Council Bluffs,

(20:23):
which he won by ten points. And I was able
to win by nearly six points, you know, about fifty
percent better than any other Democratic Do you think it's
Trump voter? The Turrek Trump voter is someone that Here's
what I would say is that the one thing I'll
give credit to Trump for is that he accurately addressed
that the status quo was not working for the average

(20:45):
American and is seeing a hallowing out of the middle class.
And the Turrek Trump voter is maybe what they would
be a common sense voter to some degree that felt
like the Democratic Party had shifted away too much focusing
on culture war issues, or didn't feel like it was
looking out enough for the middle class or the average

(21:07):
American and whereas for me, I'm a common sense prairie
populace much like Senator Harken. And when I'm out there,
what I'm talking about are the kitchen table issues. It's
the way that I was very disciplined about that, both
not only in my legislative races, but in this senate
race of talking about that. This what matters the most,
is the kitchen table issues. It's about affordability, it's about

(21:29):
driving down cost a livable wage, it's about affordable housing,
it's about affordable healthcare, pharmaceuticals. We have some very specific
issues to Iowa too that I would talk about. We
were number one in public education and now we've precipitously
dropped to the middle of the pack. So I would
talk about public dollars belonging to public schools, talk about
doing something about our cancer rates. In Iowa were the

(21:52):
only state with the growing cancer rate, second highest rates
to only Kentucky. And I would talk about the need
for clean air and clean water, because that's something certainly
something that touches everyone, regardless of where you sit on
the political spectrum, doesn't matter Democrat or Republican, And those
are the things that I talked about, and I think
that there were some voters in there, certainly because of
fourteen percent over performance that that resonated with. But I

(22:16):
think that the way that we can once again win
elections in state like Iowa is through genuine economic popular
the MO what I call Perry populism.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
So I've had some interesting conversations with a couple of
with the South Dakota. Former South Dakota Democrat is running
for the US Senate now is an independent. I had
Rob sand on this podcast a few months ago and
he said something. I said, why are you running? You know,
he talked about the problems of the Democratic brand and
I'd say, so, why are you running as a Democrat?

(22:52):
And he said, well, if there was another way, maybe
I would run as an independent, but this is the
most viable way to get on the ballot, the South
Dakota Independent. And it made the case he said, the
reason he's running as an independent instead of a Democrat
is that there are some people that won't listen to
his pitch if they find out he is a D
next to his name, And the minute he doesn't have
a D next to his name, he's suddenly having these

(23:13):
conversations with a whole bunch of voters going yeah, I
agree with you, Yes, I agree with you, Yes, I
agree with you. Does the D next to your name?
What happens when somebody says, Hey, I like what you're saying,
but why do you have a D next to your name?
What's your answer to that? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (23:27):
I mean, I'm really really clear of why I have
a D next to my name. I'm always reminded of
the quote from John F. Kennedy when he said, you know,
why are you a liberal? Why are you a Democrat?
And it's because I believe in looking forward, not backwards.
That I believe in and I care about people's jobs,
about people's health care, about people's schools. This is why,

(23:49):
ultimately I'm agrammer. I say that I have two north
stars politically. The first is a quote from Franklin delan
to Roosevelt, which I think is the greatest president of
the twentieth century and also the only disable president that
we've ever had, and he said that the test of
our progress of a society is not whether we add
more to those with abundance, but whether we have enough
to those with the least. And then the other would

(24:10):
be Matthew twenty five forty, which is, you know, as
Jesus said, what you do to the least among you,
that you also do to me, And that, to me
is the essence of what a democrat is. Is that
we care about people's schools and jobs in livelihoods and healthcare.
And that is really really clear of why I'm a Democrat.

(24:31):
I don't think necessarily that Iowa is like these other
states and that you get out of the urban communities
and the term democrat or democratic is a pejorative. I
think we have a very, very long history of being
a progressive state. Third state to legalize gay marriage. I say,
I have a.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Friend of mine that refers to Iowa as the organ
of the Midwest. We used to do that about ten
years ago. A little less so lately, given that it
has been a little less purple, although I I still
think Iowa just was uniquely open to Trump at a
period of time when this economy was just transitioning. I

(25:10):
suspect Iowa was going to go back to its swing
swinginess pretty soon.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
I mean, we could certainly get into one of the
reasons why Iowa has shifted more than almost any other
state over the last ten years, and there's.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
No state with more Obama to Trump counties, no state.
They're all at eastern Iowa. It's fascinating.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
You are absolutely correct. But here here's what I've said.
I've said that Iowa is a common sense state that
has masqueraded as a red state. And for you, you
have to remember that for thirty years we had we
voted for Senator Harken, and that he ended in twenty fourteen.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
That's not that long ago.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
But even more recently, in Trump's first midterm twenty eighteen,
we won three of the four congressional seats, and we
were only three points away from winning every single one
of the congressional races. And I actually feel even more
energy and excitement right now for chance, particularly in the
rural communities which they have just been absolutely decimated and
betrayed by the tariffs, and where the commodities prices are.

(26:09):
You go to even more recent history, twenty twenty two,
we were only one point five percent away from having
three of our six state wide officials being Democrats. That
means the average Iowa voter went in there in twenty
twenty two and voted for three Democrats and three Republicans.
We are not a red state. We're a common sense
state that has masqueraded more red than what we actually are.

(26:30):
And because everything has perfectly aligned and we needed about
ten things to happen, but the fact that we've got,
for the first time since nineteen sixty eight, an open
Senate race and an open governor's race and two open
congressional races. I really do believe that Iowa is the
center of the political universe in twenty twenty six, and
you are going to see the state shift.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
I've had some say to me, let me curious what
you think of this, And I'm probably playing to the
crowds on this one, which is the Iowa Democratic Party
got a little too Demoinish and not enough everywhere else
that it was almost too concentrated in Des Moines. Do
you accept that premise? Do you think that was part
of the problem over the last decade.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, I think that the not not only in Iowa,
but I think nationally, I think the party has has
lost touch with the plights of real Americans, or the
middle class or just the average worker.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
We're all real America. The way, I always get a
little sensitive to that. In fairness it's like Americans in
rural America. But I think what you're trying to say
and what I would say when I would say this
and I got in, I'd fall into the same trap.
So I didn't mean to which is it's really rural
America that Democrats just stopped showing up in, and it's

(27:45):
showing up. This is why they've been alienated from rural America.
It's not that they've like, if you'd show up, they'd
have no problem. But this is where I think micro
targeting and the quote efficiency of use of dollars. Well,
there's more Democrats in the rabat to get out the
got to get out the base vote. And you're like, yeah,
but if you shave three points in rural America, then

(28:06):
you have a better shot at urban America, putting you
over the finish line.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, I think that that has certainly been a miscalculation. First,
I would say two things. I would say, you know,
having done this and winning in very, very red areas,
I say that the right candidate, with the right message
and the right work ethic, you can win in these
red environments. Because I've got the electoral experience that i've
I've done it, and the quality of candidacy can't be understated.

(28:34):
On that. I would also say that part of the
calculus is we do need candidates that are going to
be willing to go out there and go into all
ninety nine counties and go into all these small communities.
I think for far too long here and Iowa, over
the last ten years, we've had candidates say, well, we're
going to maximize turnout in Polk County and Johnson County

(28:55):
and Lynn County, and that's how we're going to win.
But ultimately, we're a rule state, and it may not
make a fun mental difference in the outcomes in the
state house races, but we've got to trim the margins
and we've got to get out there and we've got
to talk to Republicans in these in independence in these
rural communities and explain why we're different. But we certainly
can do that. I mean, we have the opportunity. In

(29:17):
the messaging. I've been able to prove it.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
You've you've already sort of touched on this issue that
I sort of discovered in twenty gosh, I think it
was it was I did a whole I think it
was in twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, we went
out to eastern Iowa to talk about sort of what
happened to you know, where did all the Democrats go
in eastern Iowa? And I was in Decora and in

(29:43):
some of these towns, and most of what we heard
was simply, you know, the only Democrat that showed up
in twenty twenty was Pete Buota Diche. You know, nobody
else did. And you're like, well, no, wonder he overperformed, right,
you know. Now there was sort of a comfort level
for him. He was already a Midwesterner, so there was this,
you know, and he was sort of a fish out
of water in South Bend. And when you start out

(30:04):
as thinking of yourself as a fish out of water,
you sometimes overwork, right, And so he went to all
these places. But the other thing I discovered was there
was a lot of bullishness that, well, Democrats are going
to be able to make a comeback because of what
was happening in the schools. And it comes to the
sort of the choicification, I guess of public schools all

(30:25):
over the country. I was sort of following a blueprint
that Florida has in some of these other states in
the South. And the problem that I think Texas Republicans
are running into Iowa Republicans are running into is school
choice sounds great, but when you live where the closest
school is thirty is within, you know, the next closest
school is thirty miles away, what choice do you have?

(30:47):
And so suddenly you're not fixing my school, but you've
given me choice to go find an alternative thirty miles
away or I have to homeschool my kids. Walk me
through the choicification of the Iowa public school system right
now and how it did work and how it's working
at the moment.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, this is certainly it was a point of personal
pride for all Iolands. We were number one in.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
Education always Massachusetts, in the east, Iowa and the Midwest,
and I think it would be like out west. Those
were always the three big, you know.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Great states for public schools, you know, and this is
why people were moving here. Our test scores were the
highest in the nation, and we prioritize that even when
we put out our state quarter, it was it was
about the quality of our education. And now, unfortunately we
have seen a precipitous drop and now we're down to
the middle of the pack on this issue, depending on

(31:40):
the metric you're using, twenty six or even thirty two,
what's the drop we.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
Spend it on testing, it's un testing and all across the.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Boardest yeah, yeah, test testing scores predominantly is where you're
seeing it. But one of the reasons is because we're
no longer prioritizing this or fundingness. We now spend twelve
hundred dollars less than the national average per pupil in
Iowa and in the Iowa legislature. Unfortunately, now with what
we've seen with vouchers. Last year, we gave our public
schools a two percent increase and we gave our private

(32:09):
schools a forty four percent increase in funding. And in
what you're seeing is you're seeing rural schools that are
legitimately struggling and closing, and it, I mean, it's it's
very very serious. When these rural communities you only have
really four pillars of these rural communities, and that would

(32:29):
be your rural pharmacies which are closing. And then you're
seeing rural schools closing due to the lack of funding.
And we're giving private schools and there are no private
schools in these rural communities.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
No, And what you potentially do is you almost incentivize
some bad actors who try to open up sort of
you know, essentially government funded private schooling where they get
tax breaks and all this stuff. They grab the money
and they don't give your kid a good education and
there's nobody there to make sure they're following the rules.
Or you get parents start homeschooling and and it and

(33:03):
that's hard, you know. I think many a parent wants
to do that well, and in a dream world in
some ways, somebody, you know, but it's not as easy
as you make it out to me. And I admire
those that do it, but it's hard.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
It ain't easy, absolutely, and there are so many rule
communities now that are struggling with this. And and and
even more egregiously is that we can't audit the schools
and so there's there's no regulation on what they teach.
There's no regulation in terms of it. It's your tax
dollars being used there. You go your your your tax dollars.

(33:38):
And yet then there's there's no standard on on testing.
They can spend the money how they want, They can
spend it on pupils they can spend it on football
equipment if they want. And then most most egregiously for me,
is there's no discrimination policies in place, and so if
a kid needs an i e. P. Where he has
a visible disability or whatever his situation is, the private

(33:59):
schools can say no, sorry, we can't take you, which
just puts that onus more on the public schools which
are having less and less funding, right and department.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
This is one thing people always ask, what does the
National Department of Education do help public schools with the
funding so that they can provide services to students who
may need some extra help in order.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
To get particularly with those with disabilities and special education.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
It's always been a foundational support. So you get rid
of this and where's this kind go? I mean, I
hate to be politically cynical about this, but I think
this has opened the door to having a different conversation
in rural America than Democrats have been having over the
last decade.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
Yeah, And I mean this is just kind of unfortunately
a perfect storm in these rural communities where you're just
you're seeing young people not stick around. As I was
saying before, you've got four pillars in these rural communities.
You've got the rural pharmacy. That's an interesting issue, you're right,
I mean rural pharmacies a they're being hurt by the
by the PBMs. And then you've got your public your

(35:04):
schools which are closing because of the lack of funding,
and we're putting the funding towards the private schools you're
only in the urban areas. And then you've got rural hospitals.
And in a place like Iowa, you've got two and
five is ones in the rural communities that are on Medicaid.
In the last five years, we have closed thirty one
nursing home skilled nursing facilities in rural hospitals due to

(35:25):
lack of reimbursement and lack of funding. It is really
hurting these these communities. Then you exasperate that with what
we're seeing on the tariffs and the commodities prices, where
these you know, we're losing our family farms and you're
seeing farm suicides and foreclosure rates that are going up.
I mean, really is moving us into almost a a
second farm crisis of what we saw in the in

(35:47):
the nineteen eighties.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Unfortunately, where are you on tariffs because I think that
you know, in Iowa famously, you know, you know ag
tariffs were you'd be in one some some politicians to
be in one side of the aisle for against all
tariffs on agg because that was such a huge export.
But then on manufacturing you'd have you know, particularly a
Tom Harket might be for some of these tariffs. Maybe

(36:10):
it's on washing machines or dishwashers, because those things used
to be made. You know, there was a time that
certain towns were known not by their name, but by
the plant. Right, Oh, it's a make tag town, right,
you know you'd have that, or oh it's a popcorn town,
or it's a popcorn popping plant. And where are you

(36:32):
you know, do you think all tariffs are bad? When
are there tariffs that are out there that you support?
Where do you put yourself on the issue?

Speaker 2 (36:42):
No, I would tend to agree with you. I mean,
certainly not all tariffs are bad. I think you can
make the argument that at least in the manufacturing sector,
to have some level of parody or competition, they can
be valuable. But certainly, what we're seeing right now with
this chaotic terriffs, where you know you're seeing shifts from
from day to day, and one day it's one hundred
percent tariffs, and they have really really hurt the gag communities.

(37:06):
And that's being doubled down where Trump's giving forty billion
dollars to Argentina to bail them out so that the
Chinese can buy their soybeans. Meanwhile our farmers are left
there to hold the bag and they're upside down on
their soybeans. It really really is hurting our bag communities.
And I think that when I'm out there and I've
been out to a lot of farms, we're hearing farmers

(37:27):
that are really really concerned that we've already lost a
majority of our family farms and what few remain out there. Yeah,
suicide rates are three times higher than what they were
over the last two years. Foreclosure rates are double what
they were last year. It's moving us towards the farm crisis,
and this has been a self inflicted womb due to
this chaotic nature of the tariffs. I believe that tariffs

(37:50):
should be as the founders of the Constitution, intended with
the power of the legislature and much like the power
of the purse.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
So one of the things that frustrates long time Iowans.
Is the idea it's a shrinking population state, right that
the I remember when when you know that there have
been multiple governors who said, you know, my goal is
to you know, I'm during the heyday of the public
school system. Hey, we're educating all these kids and they're leaving.
You know, they're they're leaving the state. They're not staying.

(38:20):
What's the what's your plan to get more folks to
want to stay in Iowa? What's the job what's the
job market look like the next thirty years in Iowa?
And and what is what should Iowa be an investing
in to make it to make it such a because
it's always been seen as a pretty livable, right, it's
a it's a very livable place to moin in particular.

(38:41):
You know, if you're looking for a small city but
want city life, the Moin's about as affordable place as
you can live in the Midwest. But what's the next
what are the next thirty years of jobs look like
in Iowa? Because I do think Iowans are nervous about
the future. Yeah, they they certainly are.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
Unfortunately, where the only state in the last one hundred
years and hasn't doubled in population size. And even for
the young people that we have, oftentimes we're educating them
and then they go on. The first thing is we've
got to start going the right direction, particularly in rural communities.
As I said, you know, we've got to have a
healthcare system in place. We're basically dead last right now

(39:19):
in Iowa for every single economic metric. I mean, for
all intents and purposes, we're already in a recession. We've
seen a six percent reduction in GDP. We're forty ninth
in terms of economic growth, forty eight out of fifty
in terms of individual purchasing in economic growth. By every

(39:40):
single healthcare metric, we're basically dead last. Rural hospitals, obgyns,
mental health providers, mental health reimbursements. You have to have
these systems in place to want for this to be
a livable situation as well, if you want people to
move here to Iowa. So I agree, it's a beautiful
state when all around the world, I love Iowa. It's great,

(40:01):
Iowa nice, it's it's affordable even uh you know, it's
an amazing place. Uh, but you've you've got to have these
systems in place from education and healthcare, and also what
we're seeing with some of these uh social issues where
we've moved to a six week abortion ban and in
some of these culture war issues where we've we've just

(40:21):
not made this state very welcoming to to a lot
of individuals. And you know, it's interesting with what we're
doing on immigration as well, it's made it made it
less welcoming to to immigrant communities.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
You know, it's interesting with with Iowa and how it's
gotten sideways some cultural issues. Is that, you know, my
father grew up the you know, the Midwest Methodist, which means,
you know, I always joke Methodists are you know, people
who are Christians but don't want to talk about it,
you know, but but you know, meaning like, you know,

(41:00):
your faith is your faith. You don't wear it on
your sleeve. What you wear on your sleeve is your values, right,
It's you know, your values is being good to your neighbor, empathy,
things like that. And yet there's this perception that i
was a very religious state. And yet I did see
something recently that compared to the rest of the Midwest,

(41:20):
it is actually has the least it's on a downward
trajectory of people that go every week to some sort
of religious service. What have you discovered out there campaigning statewide?

Speaker 2 (41:35):
I mean, most states are on a downward trajectory in
terms of that, but I still think that I was
is a religious state. I think the most recent numbers
I had seen was sixty five percent of Violins still
a ten church on a regular basis, or would define
themselves as Christian or members of religious organization. And certainly

(41:57):
that's something that I'm going to incorporate in this campaign.
I'm somebody that has born and raised and proudly spiritual
and when defined myself as a Christian in the true
sense of the word. And I'm going to go out there.
There's three things that Republicans that have I feel like
they've had a stranglehold on that they're not going to
be able to use against me. The first is hard work,

(42:20):
because every single part of my story, from overcoming economic situations,
the healthcare situations that I've gone through, also to win
Gold Medals, but then even to win my election in
a very very deeply read district, going out there every
single day and dragging my wheelchair upstairs has been about
hard work. The second is I think that Republicans have

(42:43):
felt like they've been able to have a stranglehold on patriotism.
And I'm someone that is deeply patriotic. I love Iowa,
I love my country. I have proudly represented the United
States in four Paralympic Games and won gold medals, and
so I don't think they'll be able to use that.
And the third is, as we were talking about with this,
is on spirituality or on religion. I feel like there
has been this push that if you're a Democrat, you

(43:06):
you cannot be religious or spiritual, if you're Christian, you
must have to be Republican. And I'm going to go
out there and actively talk about, you know, Matthew twenty
five forty and that the true message of Jesus is
taking care of the most vulnerable in society and the
poor and the elderly and the disabled. That's one of
the main reasons why I am a Democrat.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
Let me go through a few questions that you're look,
you know that could get weaponized against you. Fair, unfair?
The issue of transports and access, what what what should that?
What's fair to the trans community when it comes to
access to organized sports thru school college, et cetera. I mean,

(43:49):
I say this and I feel like you actually have
a in some ways have a better you know, you
benefited from having access for adaptive sports. So what's the
right I don't know if there's a right answer. What
do you think is the right way to think about
this issue? I mean the first is I think we
need to be empathetic on this issue. I mean, the
children that are involved in this, they're they're really in

(44:11):
a no win situation. Is somebody that you know has
gone through a lot of bullying and adversity in my life,
you know, being different with the disability.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
We need to recognize that, you know, sports is a
unique area of dedicated a lot of my life to this,
and we certainly need fairness and involved in this. However,
I would say that, you know, I have personal experience
with this. I actually I wanted to try out for
my team in high school and play basketball, and yet
there was an equipment rule that prevented me from being

(44:40):
able to play. And yet it was not my congressman,
or my mayor or my senator that was making the
decision on this issue. It was the sports governing bodies.
And so my position on this is that this should
be decided by the sports governing bodies and.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
Politicians shouldn't be involved in this conversation.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
I don't think my position is the United States centered
I should be involved in this, that it should be
Should a high school principle have to make sports governing bodies?
I don't think it should be left up to local control.
I think you leave it up to sports governing bodies.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Socialism versus capitalism? You know the the excitement that the
progressives have about the victory of Zoon Mamdani, he's a
self described democratic socialist. There's the every political party claims
they're a big tent when they have people in there
that that they that not everybody agrees and I get that,

(45:38):
But where are you on socialism versus capitalism? And I
ask a plurality the most recent NBC News poll, it's
a poll that I'm very familiar with, and I know
it's really well done. Democrats were the only group that
had a net positive rating on socialism and a net
negative rating on capitalism. A why do you think that is?

(45:59):
And where do you put yourself on that spectrum?

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Well, I would define myself as a capitalist. I think
capitalism is the greatest vehicle ever devised by man to
be able to generate capital. However, it's very inefficient at
being able to divide that that capital. So I'm certainly
not a las Fair capitalist. I think that you know,
you need a regulated capitalism and a progressive taxation rate.

(46:24):
I mean, honestly, when something's been fascinating to me, again
representing very red district, and you talk, I'm not talking
most exclusive to Republicans, they'll this whole entire MAGA movement
make America great again. Well, what they're talking about with
that is they're talking about America post World two, arguably
at our zenith. And I'm sure and preach it the
choir to you on this, but when you're talking about

(46:46):
America post World two nineteen fifties, you're talking about the
where we had the most amount of union membership and
the strengths of our unions, and the unions built the
middle class. But we also had the most aggressive taxation rate.
That was when the highest earners were paying a marginalized
tax rate of ninety one percent, and during the Eisenheard administration,

(47:07):
and the largest corporations where we're paying fifty one percent,
and we've eroded that. We are literally living through a
second Gilded Age right now in this country. And it
has I mean all the way back to John Edwards
when you talked about we're living in two Americas, the
haves and the have nots, and it was a bit of.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Had That speech is funny when you think about that speech.
He gave an four and oh eight constantly and being
in Iowa and right you heard it a million times.
We all heard it. You know, we live in two Americas.
We are now, we are living in it's more I
was just going to say the speech. Weirdly, it's more
resident now than it was then.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
If you make over one hundred thousand dollars right now,
I think you're feeling pretty good.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
And especially a little money in the stock market, you're like, hey,
this is great. My savings is working for me. But
what if you don't have savings?

Speaker 2 (47:49):
That's right, but you can't have a more disconnected The
disconnect between Wall Street and Main Street can't be more clear.
And it really is the haves and the have nots.
And there's too many people right now in Iowa right
now that are in the have not section that are
struggling just to keep food on the table and pay
their bills, and struggling with affordability of healthcare and pharmaceuticals

(48:13):
and all of it. And this is what we need.
We need a genuine prairie populist. And you know, we
used to have prairie populous We no longer in the
US that have those because we don't have senators from Iowa,
in the Dakotas in Nebraska. And we need somebody that's
going to go out there and fight for the people.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
The issue of climate change is something that's really important
to a certain subset. Look do I think it should
be important to a large subset of help, but but
politically it's important to a smaller subset these days. And
I'm sure you're getting plenty of advice that says, hey,
don't you know these issues, these are not these are
not front and center. And yet I think rising electric bills,

(48:52):
the data centers that are that are going to be
going online, that are going to impact our ability to
that are basically going to a competition for electricity, which
is inevitably is going to raise rates. Is there a
way to be sort of to to mitigate the damage
coming from extreme weather and at the same time not

(49:12):
look like you're coming out against the economy.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
If you get my drift, I think, like with most things,
how I define myself as a common sense I mean, one, yeah,
certainly climate change exists, and it's and it's happening in
where you may see those effects most most directly is
actually in the yag communities and where we're seeing.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
The southwest Iowa. The flooding, you know, one hundred year
floods that come every couple of years.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
It's it's it's it's the flooding, it's the extreme heat.
And then when you're seeing these rain showers which which
are just coming down in torrents and knocking down the
road crops, it is affecting us in a very very
serious way. And also Iowa we have always been a
leaders in renewable fuels, renewable energy. We have second most

(50:00):
amount of our energy grid that is from renewable energy,
the most of the vast majority of that is through wind.
And I think that there's a way where we can
address this without uh without stifling growth or innovation or
or the economy. And certainly one of the best ways
is certainly through that through through wind energy and continuing
those incentives and subsidies through the through the federal government,

(50:24):
certainly at the state level.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Two, being a US senator means you're going to be
dabbling more in foreign policy than the campaign itself will
be about. And I imagine if a foreign policy issue
comes up, it's going to be the issue of Israel.
Where are you on US support for Israel?

Speaker 2 (50:39):
Yeah, I mean certainly, I'm hopeful that we're going to
see a peaceful end too that I think we're all
hopeful for that. What has happened there in Gaza has
been horrific. The amount of loss of life into civilians,
into and to children. Uh, it really has been horrific.
I think that Israel certainly had the the right to

(51:03):
defend itself, but I think that now the response is certainly,
by any metric, been disproportionate. And I think that we
need to make sure that any sort of support or
arm cells comes with the insurance that we're adhering to
international law.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
You put a little more a few more guardrails on
arm sales.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Yeah, I particularly put particularly on offensive weapons.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
And as Ukraine our fight, what would you say to
somebody is that our fight and If it is, why
is it our fight? In your in your words, I.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
Think it's I think there's certainly a distinction there. I
think that what's happened is they they have been invaded
by but an authoritarian regime with with Putin, and I
think that that is one of the examples where we
should probably stand in in in and fight with them
and uh, because that that is, that is a distinc

(52:00):
they have. That is a sovereign country that has been
invaded by a foreign power, and that is that is
an area where we should support.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
One that might be a little closer to home. College sports,
it is gone through dramatic changes. Iowa was on the halves.
I worry that Iowa State, where my grandparents both got degrees.
By the way, are their Cyclone alums they might be
have nots because they're in one conference and Iowa was

(52:30):
in a super conference. There's always been this talk that
Congress is going to have to get involved. Do you
think they need to? And as somebody who's you know, look,
you know, one side of the state loves their Hawkeyes,
the other side of state loves their Cyclones. But the
fact is Iowa State is is essentially getting punished because

(52:52):
Texas left the Big twelve? Is there a role here
for the Senate? And do you think there should be?

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Maybe I'm I'm I'm torn. I maybe sports should be separate.
But I do know the history of the NCAA. You know,
one of the reasons why that was created was just
because of with football. We are seeing all all the
violence in the you know, unfortunate even loss of life early.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
On the trying to Teddy Roosevelt, it basically was created,
you know, by ted in order to.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Say that that is exactly correct. I mean what we're
seeing with the the NIL I mean this, this has
just turned into the las A fair there and there's
no regulation, and I think honestly that they missed an opportunity.
You know, my brother and sister both played professional able
body basketball. My sister had a brief cup of coffee
with the w n b A, and so they were
they both were four year starters. My brother Nebraska, my

(53:42):
sister at L. Robert University, and they honestly, they struggled
just to have money, just to do their laundry. And
we missed an opportunity there to find some happy medium
where we could at least take care of our athletes,
or at least that they had some level of control
over their image and likeness. But what we're seeing now,

(54:02):
which is millions and millions of dollars dumping into this
and no guardrails and no regulation. Uh, it may be
a need for for the Senate or for the government
to get involved.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
Do you get a sense that Iowa State, basically partisans
are nervous that that you know that suddenly you know,
if Io and Iowa State can't play every year because
of the financial demands of the Big ten that want
them playing in other games like that, that is something
that's really good at tick Off Islands.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
Yeah, I just it's it's it's interesting. It's almost I
feel like our college sports has almost moved into what
we're seeing with with our country and our economics, where
we've got a handful we've got a handful of these
and with football in particular, it's the SEC and it's
the Big ten that are the haves and they've got
all the TV money and those are just going to

(54:53):
continue to generate more and more.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
It's kind of a monopoly. It's not even a meritocracy.
It feels like a monopoly. And that's of course, what
we're seeing here with AI and and what we're seeing
with the big tech in the moment correct.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
And I mean look again to get back to us
talking about the second as being in gilded Age at
least one hundred years ago. In the first guilded Age,
we had legislators that stood, that stood up to this
and to the Rockfellers and the Vanderbilts and and the
JP Morgans, and we broke up standard oil, and we know,
we recognized that these monopolies were no good for society

(55:28):
to have one percent controlling all the economic wealth. And
out of that Gilded Age we ended up coming up
with Franklin Delan and Roosevelt and the New Deal and
you know, the advent of social security and social safety
nets for individuals. I'm hopeful that this is an opportunity
here for us in this country, and particularly in this
upcoming election, for us to make that shift and to

(55:48):
to actually have more people that are going to be
genuine populous. They're going to fight for the middle class
and fight for economic populism, and we can change our country,
all right.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Totally easy questions for you know, he's got the best.
Who's who's going to be the best college basketball team
from Iowa this year. Who's going to go the furthest
in the tournament? I would probably guess the Hawk guys.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
Is that That's.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Yeah, Iowa State doesn't have as good of a ball
club this year.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Oh they may, they they may. It's but I'll say
who I think is going to go furthest in the
in the tournament? I think the Hawk guys. However, I'll
say this, Drake Man. Oh Man, They've they've had they've
had good results with at least making the tournament, which
is Drake and.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
You and I. There's some pretty good supposed mid major
teams right now, That is right.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
I mean half the battles just get into the tournament.
I mean that that has been also interesting too with
this shift in sports on the on the football you've
seen more of, but have and have not actually on
the basketball side of things, I think you can make
the argument where some of these teams, because you're seeing
guys that are going in there and they're just staying
one year and then they're entering the train anthropolo or

(57:01):
the better athletes are going off to the NBA, I
think you can make the argument that some of these
mid majors that are able to keep their guys for
three or four or five years. They're able to compete
in an interesting way against these you know, the haves so.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Seniors, four year guys that grow up together for four
years in the same program. One hundred percent. I'm a
wich A gw S matters. That's that's our plan, that's
the gw blueprint. That's how they think we can we
can be the next you know, the next Gonzaga, the
next Wichita State right right, that can pop in there.
Let me get you out of here on this. What's uh?

(57:34):
On the NBA level? Who's your favorite basketball player to watch?

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Oh, I'm I'm a big fan of Jokich, what he's been.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Able to do. You like that, you like the the
the high IQ player, right, I just.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Kind of like unicorns. I just like watching anything at
the very highest level. I'm a shooter, you know. I mean,
I think I had said to you, I in my
collegiate career, four thousand career points, sixty three points. Uh
So that was always my skill set. So watching somebody
like Steph Curry that has been able to master that
that unique skills.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
The mayor Fred Hoiberg, right he was a big shooter
back in his day.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Yeah that's right, Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
But I mean it's like theseus that are able to
do it in.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
A in a very unique way at a high level.
In Jokich, particularly with his physical appearance, you know, as
he's just kind of lumbering down the court, but the
level of coordination that he that he has it really
is it's it's sensational.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
I really love watching him. It's such a high flying sport.
To see him not get an inch off the ground
is fantastic. It's my favorite. I love that. Who's your
goat for the NBA? Yeah? Who do you put in
the goat? Do you have a goat? Do you have
a hot take? Goat between Jordan Lebron I got a
hot take that involves Magic Johnson. But that's my hot take?

Speaker 2 (58:54):
Or you know, well, here I will tell you my goat,
but I'll tell you my Mount Rushmore. My my goat
without a doubt is Jordan. I mean, as a kid
watching growing up watching him play six championships, six to zero.
But I also think you can make the argument for
someone like Bill Russell eleven championships in thirteen years. I
don't know, if we'll ever see anything like that Wilt Chamberlain.

(59:15):
I mean, if you just look at the individual stat lines,
he averaged fifty points in a season, scoring over one hundred.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
Was one of the greatest volleyball players of all time
as well, by the way, without a doubt.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
I mean, this was a guy that for a season
actually averaged more minutes than even an NBA game has.
He averaged like forty eight point three minutes in the game.
Those would be those would be the ones that would
be up there for me.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Yeah, well, Josh, this was great. Good luck out there.
I mean, are you any question quickly hit me up.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
What do you think about Iowa? I mean, like you,
I mean, you're you're You're as close to this as
is almost anybody. You're seeing this unique opportunity that we've got,
you know, first time since nineteen sixty eight, open governor's race,
open race, two open congressional races. In Trump's first midterm,
we won three of the four, and we've got a
great candidate with somebody like Rob sand that is similar

(01:00:08):
to me in terms of leaning into the middle. What
do you think about IOW and us being the center
of the political universe or this being a fundamental change
in our electorate.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Well, I think it is one of those where if
if the Democrats want to be a national party, and
I would argue that they've not been a national party
since Obama and the and the sort of the got
taken over by a consultant class that got I've always said,
you know, analytics was a you know, the the analytics

(01:00:38):
revolution that hit politics and sports and all this stuff
where people let data drive decisions. Sometimes data can be exclusive,
meaning it excludes people because it's efficiencies that analytics is
looking for. Well, we found out the efficiencies of baseball
made the game suck, and so we had to like
get a and the efficiencies of polis actually made got

(01:01:02):
rid of persuasion. We start the art of persuasion. Iowa
only works with persuasion, right. It's why the caucuses, I
think are such a unique thing and why Iolands took it. Seriously.
I'm sorry the Democratic Party only views Iowa through an
identity issue, and I think that is what offended some islands.

(01:01:23):
I really believe that that when the Democratic Party nationally said,
you know, I was too white, Well, what do you
think that said to the residents? You don't want us
in your club, Okay, and then you wonder, oh, well,
now I was out of range. Well you just told
eighty percent of the population you didn't want them involved

(01:01:43):
because they were too white.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
It was a.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Strange and I know that isn't I understood what the
DNC was trying to say. But anyway, look, I'm I
think that if not now, when, right, if the Iowa
Democrats can't make a comeback in this environment, under these circumstances,
with everything that's there, right, if it doesn't happen, the

(01:02:06):
party's brand is even in worse shape than I thought.
I look at Iowa as this test if the Democrats
are and I most look, I'm a believer. I live
in history, so everything is cyclical, right, It just is.
You know, Harkin first got elected in the seventy four
Watergate class, right, and it was Iowa had a very
Republican reputation before then. And that's sort of when when

(01:02:29):
sort of the Iowa Democrats started to get more competitive.
But it is a if there isn't success this time,
then it is not your fault or Rob's fault, or
the fault of the folks on the ground. It really
is the national brand, right, if you can, if you
can rebrand an Iowa Democrat is something that isn't associated

(01:02:53):
with the national party. I think you have a boxer's
chance because if you but you have to show up
everywhere in the beauty of Iowa. Is it's kind of expected, right,
the ninety nine counties, the fact that everybody that covers
Iowa politics, even if you're not from Iowa, you know
there are ninety nine counties. Do you know how many
other states people know that they're the number of counties

(01:03:15):
are in that state outside of people that live in
that state. Nowhere, right, Iowa has it. And so I
do think, you know, for whatever reason, you just had
a and I think if you look at the leadership
of the Democratic Party, it's too coastal. Right. It wasn't
that long ago that the Democratic Party was first that
had a Senate Democratic leader from South Dakota, and then

(01:03:36):
it was replaced by a Senate Democratic leader who was
born and raised in rural Nevada. Like literally the towns
are outside of Vegas. There are five of them that exist, right,
I'm being a little facetious. So you know, this is
one of those things where literally the Democratic Party left Iowa.
Iowa didn't leave the Democratic Party, and we'll find out

(01:03:57):
if Iowans are open to this version of the party.
But I look at it, I think what's happened with
the schools and the funding cuts. I hear it from
a lot of my friends in rural Iowa about how
you know, even if culturally they were supportive of the
idea of private schools and there was the skepticism of
the public schools, the way this is work doesn't work

(01:04:19):
for people, right. Ultimately, people want their local school to
work and they want to have a say over their
local school, right. They want both things. So look, I mean,
I'm I'm biased. I've spent a lot of time in Iowa.
My wife worked in Iowa. You know, we both care
about the state a lot. Like I said, I got

(01:04:39):
more family buried in Iowa than any of the state
in the Union. So I've always taken pride on what
sort of a bipartisan state it's always has been, and
it was always a point of pride. My father's was
a big conservative, grew up in Waterloo. It was a
point of pride that Iowa was this swing state. That's right,
because Iowan's worry about the person at the party and

(01:05:01):
there was always that there was a bit of a
there was always pride in that the independent streak of Iowa.
So look, I'm a I'm bullish in theory, but you
got to have good candidates.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
Without a doubt. This is one of the things that
I've learned representing, you know, such a red district, is
this comes down to right candidate, right message, and that
message is genuine economics. Yeah, and in the right work ethic,
I think you can win and we do. I mean,
we're basically dead last by every single economic and healthcare metric.
And as you said, this is a huge opportunity, but

(01:05:34):
it's a lot of responsibility we get this right because
if we cannot win in this environment, then this state
may be gone for a generation.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
And uh, because if Republicans can win in this environment,
then then they're going to govern for quite some time.
I mean, I don't know if you've spent much time
with Mike Franken in the race he ran, you know,
he was just totally uh. I mean, you want to
talk about identity Polas just eliminating him from consideration by

(01:06:03):
the National Party, and it turned out he was the
stronger candidate because he won the primary despite the national
party supporting somebody else. So what I would say is
be careful when that when you think the national parties
on your side, they don't always make the smartest decisions.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
That's fair. And the other thing that you said that
one hundred percent agree with is that we've got to
make our own identity of what is an Iowa Democrat.
I think that one of the one of the advantages
that like a state above us in Minnesota has had
is they've been able to make the distinction with we
are the farm and Labor party. And I think that
if we had that ability to say we are the
party of the American class, that John middle.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
Who says you have to keep the name Iowa Democrats,
who says you can't become the Iowa Democratic Farm Labor
I mean, I you know, I've had a few people
ask me this and I'm like, yeah, I you know,
rebrand if the part if the Democrats are going to
be a coalition party, and most look, we're we're a
country two parties. Nobody goes to the store and only

(01:06:59):
takes and there's only two choices of T shirt sizes
extra small and extra large right, Like the idea that
we try to squeeze everybody into two parties is absurd.
We probably should be a four or a four party system.
I think it would frankly sort of ease the ease
some of the tension inside both parties. You know, where

(01:07:19):
you have these giant where the tent is so big
it rips a hole in the middle right, And that's
kind of what I think has happened to the Democrats.
You've got these pro democracy extra Republicans on one side,
and you've got the Bernie Sanders democratic socialists on the other.
And they only agree on one thing, Trump is bad
for democracy. Other than that, they've got nothing else in common.
That's a tough coalition to win with on bread and

(01:07:41):
butter issues. And I don't know why other state parties
haven't actually followed the lead of Minnesota. Now Minnesota, there
used to be separate parties. There was a Democratic Party
and there was a Farm Labor Party, and then they merged.
That's sort of the history of that. But I've been surprised,
Like if I were an Idaho Democrat, I just rebranded
the party the Idaho Freedom Party or something, you know,
where you know sometimes words you know, are words you

(01:08:05):
don't use anymore in certain locations. Okay, move on, your
ideas can still work.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
It is interesting, though, because I think we're seeing a
schism actually on both parties. I mean, the Democrats, as
you indicated, are but you also see this amongst classical
conservatives and also what is a maga Republican and so well, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
The same divide, you know, Josh. That divide existed before.
It just was so dormant during the Cold War. The
isolationist wing, you know, which was borderline xenophobic back in
the nineteen thirties, and they were like, hey, we're not
going to get involved in other people's wars. And they
were the ones that held the Americans back from participating
in World War Two until it came to our shores. Right,

(01:08:47):
we wouldn't have gotten involved until it hit us, because
that Republican party was more trumpy in the FDR era
than Eisenhower, right, and then the Eisenhower to Romney run
of Republicans. They were all sort of internationalists, and and
yet they're the Yeah, they're I don't think they're dead,
they're just in hibernation at that wing of the party.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
I enjoyed this.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
Thank you so much for good to get to know you.

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