Colorado Springs Mayor Yemi Mobolade — the independent who won a culturally conservative city by running as a true centrist who refuses to be boxed into either party — joins the Chuck Toddcast to make the case that quality-of-life governance still beats partisanship when voters are actually given the chance to choose it. Mobolade, who adapted his governing principles from Abraham Lincoln, argues that there's a genuine and growing appetite for leadership that isn't red or blue — but warns that working for unity is incredibly hard and tiring work that few politicians want to do anymore. He walks through Colorado Springs' fight to retain Space Command after Trump and Biden moved the headquarters back and forth between Colorado Springs and Huntsville, Alabama, and explains why he ultimately chose not to sue over the relocation (the decision was within the president's purview, and burning that bridge would have cost the city more than it gained). Mobolade describes hiring his own mayoral opponent Wayne Williams after the campaign — a move he calls part of his "radical collaboration" approach — and argues that mayors don't have the luxury of partisan posturing because their job is fundamentally about producing deliverables for actual residents who want safer streets, better services, and a higher quality of life.
The conversation moves into the practical challenges facing every American mayor in 2026, with data centers emerging as the political pain point in nearly every community across the country. Mobolade describes calling an emergency meeting to develop a data center strategy for Colorado Springs, walks through the balanced-but-responsible-growth framework his team has settled on, and explains the tradeoffs honestly: residents are worried about quality-of-life impacts, but the tax revenue from data centers is exactly what cities need to fund essential services. Larger data centers in his city are now forced to pay impact fees to offset their costs, some are being placed on military bases for security purposes, and Mobolade is candid with residents that they cannot have the services they demand without the revenue base to pay for them. The conversation turns to Colorado Springs' housing shortage — the city has been named one of the best places for young people, but only if young people can actually afford to live there — and Mobolade discusses his work with HUD to expand supply, his belief that the country needs genuine innovation in finding cheaper ways to build, and his frustration with a Colorado political landscape that he says no longer has room for center-left and center-right voices the way it used to. His closing argument is the one that ties the whole episode together: the country needs more independent leadership, not because partisanship is bad in theory, but because the current version of it is incapable of delivering the basics that voters actually care about.
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Timeline:
(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)
00:00 Mayor Yemi Mobolade joins the Chuck ToddCast
01:30 The people care more about quality of life than partisanship
02:45 Adapted governing principles from Abraham Lincoln
03:45 Colorado Springs is culturally conservative, yet elected an independent
05:30 Ran as a true centrist, hard to box in his politics
06:45 There’s an appetite for leadership that isn’t red or blue
7:30 Trump & Biden moved space command back and forth from Co. Springs
08:45 The city fought hard to keep space command
09:30 Worked with the mayor of Huntsville to ensure smooth transition
10:30 Why did you decide not to sue over relocation of space command?
11:15 The decision was within the president’s purview
12:30 The city is safer now than when he took office
13:45 A mayor’s job is to produce deliverables for the people
15:45 There’s a lack of competition of ideas in Colorado politics
16:45 Have a good relationship with the governor and statehouse
17:30 People get too stuck in their partisan lanes
18:00 Working for unity is incredibly hard and tiring
20:15 There used to be room for center-left and center-right in Colorado
21:15 Hired his mayoral opponent Wayne Williams
21:45 Wayne ran a more traditional campaign, Yemi ran on different leadership
23:00 The goal was radical collaboration and the community embraced it
23:45 Data centers are a political pain point of every local community
24:30 Called an emergency meeting to discuss data center strategy
25:15 The
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(01:40):
As many of you know, very fascinated with this current
period of American politics where we have a lot of
frustration with the two major parties and you see various attempts.
Sometimes it's in red states you see independent candidates. I
featured them here. In some blue states where you see
independence that may lean wright, but there's been very few
(02:01):
examples of independence winning and governing. But one of those
places where we've seen that recently is in Colorado Springs.
And my guest right now is the mayor of Colorado Springs,
Mayor Yemmy Mobilade. Everybody calls him mayor Yemmy, like mayor Pete,
mister mayor.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Welcome to the Podcastuck, it's an honor to be on
your show. Truly, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Thank you for saying that. So look when the most interesting.
I mean, in some ways, you were a big splash
to me when you first got elected, not just because
you got elected as an independent, but you hired your
opponent to be your chief of staff. That is what
everybody's like, WHOA, this is different. Okay, walk me through
(02:48):
that campaign and what you were thinking on hiring your opponent.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
At the end of the day, I was elected to
do a job. And the job I was elected to
do transcend red and blue. Transcence politics. It's about human flourishing.
It's about city flourishing. It's about a quality of life,
and Americans are feeling the pain of They feel like
they're losing that. And when you are elected by your people,
(03:15):
your representative, they expect you to get the job done.
While most Americans do hold a political identity, when it
comes to the quality of life, they really do not care.
And when I was running, I meant it when I
said that this leader embraces the team of rivals approach.
(03:37):
I am an immigrant. I have this August eleven. In
a couple of months would be my thirty year anniversary
when I came into this country right the Chicago O'Hare airport,
went to college in Indiana and South Bend, Indiana. And
one of my connections to the American story is that
(03:58):
I share a birthday with a Braham Lincoln, and I'm
drawn into that period of American history because I'm drawn
to his story.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
And division in our country was.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Present, was present at that time in the mid eighteen hundreds,
and we have a president that united the country at
all odds, and one of the examples he showed was
his ability to bring in the best talent, regardless of
whether or not they were rivals of his. And so
my leadership, while it feels new and fresh in these times,
and I'm happy that there are some good reminders of
(04:30):
who we've always been as Americans, I want to be clear.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
This is old school.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
So we're bringing We're bringing old school leadership and making
it new school at a time that desperately needs new
examples of political leadership.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Let's talk about Colorado Springs. I'm gonna I'm gonna paint
a picture for you that's that of what some people.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
If you've think you know.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Colorado for a long time in politics, and certainly the
politics you know, in the nineties, Colorado Springs was the
home of cultural conservatism, yes, absolutely, Now Colorado Springs also
home of the Air Force Academy. Yes now, and it's
which is an army base. Yeah, so army and Air Force.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yes, So.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I think for some people of a certain era, and
I'll put myself there to see an independent get elected
as a surprise, somebody not not from from you know,
obviously from from the right side of the aisle. But
there had been some evidence of the last decade I've
seen in that congressional district got a bit more competitive
and you start to see and and a lot of
(05:41):
that I think is you chalk it up to Colorado Springs.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
But you chose to move there, and I'm just curious
how it.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Clearly you embedded yourself in the community pretty quickly right
to be asked to be mayor. And I'm just curious,
how would you describe how you were able to convince
people that have probably lived there a lot longer than
you have that you'd be the best person.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
That's a great question, And Chuck, I'm still trying to
figure it out.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
If I'm being honest.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
How do you feel like you connected? Tell me how
you connected it? You clearly have connected to the community.
I do you believe it is?
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Faith?
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
What is it?
Speaker 4 (06:23):
It's all the above, it truly is.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I am the first non Republican to be elected since
Colorado Springs started doing mayor election elections in nineteen seventy nine,
the year I was born. I am a true independent.
In fact, I take a lot of pride in being
dead center. I It's complicated, Chuck, and this is the
(06:49):
politics of most Americans. We try to put them in
these polarized and opposite and I when you sit down
and actually talk with people, you realize it's it's competent.
It's complicated. I'm a business leader in Colorado Springs. I'm
I'm an immigrant. I'm the first black mayor as well.
I am I am a business I'm a former pastor
(07:10):
in Colorado Springs. You can already see pieces of my
story that it's hard to box me. And even though
people try to box me, and I and I went.
I ran for office because I love this community and
I want to be the change that I do want
to see in the world. It's nobody else's response. We
can we can complain about the state of affairs. We
can say, Okay, what are we going to do about it?
(07:32):
And part of me chuck between us. I wanted to
see what it looks like to have a regular person
with a compelling message and people the silent majority like
me that I'm not supposed to be in politics that
actually should be running away. I have a front row
seat into this experience. And I still hate politics, I
(07:55):
want to be clear, but I love public service and
it's rewarding and meaningful to serve.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Politics suck.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
But I wanted to see is it possible for a
regular person with a story like mine to disrupt the
world of politics as an independent and this miracle story.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
I'm still trying. I'm still trying to wake up on
this dream.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
And I put out a message that was compelling, that
connected with the hearts and minds of Americans and it
paid off. And it shows you that there is an
appetite for different kind of leadership that is not red
or blue, that is about a shared vision about the
future of our florishan as Americans.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Well, let's talk about some of the challenges you're dealing
with right now as mayor. Probably the biggest one or
at least symbolically that nationally people may be wondering about,
is the loss of the Space Command to Huntsville. And
you know, this is a delegate political situation. As a city,
you chose not to sue and instead, I think there's
(08:59):
still an attempt to cooperate. You know, sometimes these decisions
are very partisan. It feels as if he wanted to
reward a red state over a blue state. That's how
you feel, is if you guys got caught in the
middle of that.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Because absolutely, yeah, yeah, absolutely, I came into office and
the decision was reversed. So before President Trump left in
twenty twenty, he moved it to Alabama. Biden came moved
it back to Colorado, but he thought with two different
(09:35):
president and it got reversed. But behind it all a
group of Americans he rose, who wake up every day
to serve our country. When I speak with them, they're
caught up in this political dynamic. Do I want to
lose BACE Command? Absolutely not. We are proud military community, Chuck.
(09:55):
One hundred thousand veterans, forty five thousand active service members.
That's about When you think about it, that's almost about
one hundred and fifty thousand.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
We're a city of half a million.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
We're talking about a quarter of a population of our
city of military oriented, high quality of life. This is
a top city for many of our military members in
many ways. I'm wearing this right, white and blue today
because I got to participate for Carson in the memorial
service to honor our fallen.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
That is who we are.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
So we fought hard to keep Space Command in this
city that rightfully belongs. I can't do anything about politics,
but what I can do is to understand the political
dynamics around is what is the best decision for both
the active members of our active military members that are
serving Space Command, the civilians here from them, as well
(10:48):
as how do we keep moving forward as a community.
While we knew that decision was coming, and I'm proud
to say that I still have a great relationship with
the Command of Space Command. We've actually developed I've developed
a good relationship with Huntsville, the city that's moving to.
I've connected with the mayor. We're going to work together
(11:10):
on behalf of military members and in behalf of this country.
And to his credit, when I met him at actually
General white In's house. He looked at me and said, Mayor,
don't worry. We're going to take good care of your people.
That's another mayor. That is putting politics, I mean putting
people ahead of politics.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
So we do the best with that is leadership.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
We do the best with the political dynamics, and at
the same time, we find ways to fill in the gap.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
And I'm proud to say so.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Many more opportunities are coming to Colorado Springs, even though
Space Command is moving.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So it sounds like, I mean, you could have picked
up you could have filed a lawsuit, picked a political fight.
It might have made some people feel emotionally better. It's
also possible bull he could have decided to take more
away from Colorado Springs, right, right, I mean, I assume
(12:08):
these are the type of things you guys had to
think about every day.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
I still get criticized for not suing. I'm both.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I want to be clear on both sides, because there's
in Colorado.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
But I don't know what a lawsuit as much as
I understand I'm you know, I'm sitting here going lawsuit
against the administration, right, good luck?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Right? I mean, I you know.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
I am the chief executive in my city organization. In fact,
I was at a DC trip and I had interviews
with two or three media folks over there, and he
asked me about my opinion, and I said, whether or
not you agree with the president, I understand it is
within his purview. I make decisions every day on behalf
(12:58):
of the city. Every time I make it decision, half
of the people are happy, the other half not happy.
It is within his purview. So in that way, the
President is within his right. I don't like that decision.
We fought hard to make a case to keep it here.
We worked hard, Chuck to keep it here. Every time
I'm in DC, I'm at the White House. I did
(13:20):
that under Biden's administration. I'm also doing that other President Trump.
It's my job to advocate for the city and in
my case, advocating for our military members as well their spouses.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
And family members.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
We fought hard to keep it, but the President moved that,
and he's within his right suing. It's really just political posture,
and I think Americans are tired of political postrate.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
So you're running for reelection, and so why do you
believe you deserve another term?
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Because One, my leadership is still needed more than ever.
We're talking about this independent way of leading, a leadership
that is not tied to red or blue, but a
shared vision about the future of my city.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Two.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
I am proud of my accomplishments. This city is a
lot safer than when I first took office. We have
hired nearly three hundred officers in a very short amount
of time. You know, you think about where we've come
from in terms of twenty twenty George Floyd, and how
that has that impact on our police department, and to
(14:31):
see this wave of officers leave, and now we have
strengthened the force. A nine one one call center operation
is it fully staffed the first time since twenty eighteen.
What that means is now eighty six percent of calls
and now answered under twenty seconds or less. We have
improved response times from twenty four minutes to eleven minutes.
(14:52):
Practically every area of the data we're showing an impressive decline.
We have brought the community together in ways. We talk
about my chief of staff, who was my political rival.
Here's what's happened in Colorado Springs. A police chief, deputy
chief of police in the same room as a formerly
(15:12):
incarcerated resident working on public safety priorities and policies together.
That is a kind of leadership I have brought to
the city, and it is a leadership that has moved
us forward and have had so many deliverables. I haven't
even talked about economic development at a time where affordability
is a pain point. We are have had the most
(15:33):
economic development wins in our cities history. And it takes
a different kind of leadership that doesn't start from red
or blue, but sees opportunity and brings people together to
accomplish those deliverables.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
There's some things you can't do that's out of your
purview that people may think is in your purview, but
maybe it belongs to the state or it belongs to
the Feds, and I know that that can do. And
sometimes photo take they don't want to hear, yeah, but right,
you know they just want to here.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
But what's something.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
That you're dealing with the state on that you wish
the state understood should be more of a priority than
they make it.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Oh, your truck in Colorado Springs politics? My guess is
your trucking Colorado politics? And one of this immigrant and
outside looking in now participating fully in the American experiment experience.
I've only been a citizen, not that long. We're talking
(16:33):
six seven years ago. When I finally was able to
I've been in the country was thirty and so to
be able to vote and not just vote, but also
run for office.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
And the reason why that's important is I.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Came from a world of tribalism, political tribalism, where a
world that we were taught your main mission is for
your tribe to dominate and to lead and destroy the
other tribe. When you look at many parts of the
world that operates that way, you see very little progress.
You see the same challenges over and over. I chose
(17:05):
this country that I love so much, and one of
the thin parts of this that I love about our
country is this thing we call democracy. The very essence
of democracy welcomes the competition of ideas and values that
is changing on the national level, surely on the state level.
(17:26):
I have no issues against my democratic colleagues, but we
have a state that is led primarily by Democrats, and
because we lack the competition of ideas, we're now hurt
in the areas of public safety, in the areas of
economic opportunity.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
You name it. I mean the.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Recent rankings came out and Colorado is now the third
most expensive place to live in a country. That is
not a rank and that proud that I'm proud of.
And so I can't do much about the bills that
get push forward in a state level, that gets signed
into law.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
We do our best to get ahead of it.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
We do our best to welcome our state legislators into
our local dynamic thing. I sometimes I give them toward
let's go into business tour, talk to business owners, talk
to staff, get the real story so that you can
represent us well. And that is frustrating as heck, not
much I can.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
How would you describe your how would you describe your
relationship with the governor?
Speaker 4 (18:28):
It's good, I am.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
I take I take great pride in having a good
relationship with with leaders from.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Both all sides of the aisle. I have I have.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
I have relationships that spend all the way from MAGA
to DSA.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Now I am frustrated with because.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
I I my my idealism believes that if I can
meet with them, if I could sit with them, if
we can we can debate the issues we I believe
in task conflict over real relationship conflict. Where we're getting
at as a country is we're name calling and we
need a debate around the issues. And sometimes that works,
(19:08):
but many times I feel like people are stuck in
those values and chuck, I gotta be honest. I got
to be honest. I get weary in this work of unity.
It is harder. It's so hard. I met with a
group of leaders today two evenings ago, and leaders that
(19:28):
I get to see in the community, and they represent
these I would call the silent majority. And though this
leader put his arms on me and said thank you
for fighting for unity, and I just got really teary
and I said, I'm weary. I don't know how long
I can do it. I said, I'm tired. I'm working hard.
I maybe this dream is just a pipe dream, it's
(19:51):
not real. And he looked at me and he said,
there's so many of us that are like you in
this city. Keep going. We're behind you. We don't up
at city Hall. We're not calling you office, but we
do exist. We see you. We represent a big group
of Americans that love the work you're doing. Keep going.
And that was really important for me to hear.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
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I look, you wouldn't have gotten elected if there wasn't
that belief. I mean, there clearly is an exhaustion. It's
out there. And you know, in some ways you have
(22:03):
an advantage because you you've identified your advantage. You've been
both you've been able to be here as an observer
and at the same time, you came from somewhere where
you have a comparative and it's it is this, you know,
And I and I think my guess is people like
the fact that you can see it that way and
(22:27):
realize it's yeah, that's work. Yeah, you know, we know
it doesn't work. And and you know, look, I I
I bow at the altar of the of the cliche.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Politics ab horrors of vacuum.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
And it's why politics ab horrors of vacuum, meaning there's
always a desire for a check, always a desire for
some sort of you know, ful crome, right whatever, and
and so you know this stuff goes in cycles. You know,
I think I think the lack of two party competition
(23:02):
in Colorado is a is a certain brand of Republicanism.
And you know the Romney Republican Party can be competitive
in Colorado.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Right yeah, I I.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
On the Republican side than the and then of course,
you know that's why the Democratic tent looks bigger at
the moment.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I think Eastern Colorado. No, that that that that is
well said. I I long for the days. You have
a former governor of Colorado, Governor Ritter, who was after
Governor Owens, who is a Republican governor. Governor Ritter is
a Democratic governor. I remember when Governor Rider said, I'm
(23:39):
a conservative Democrat. I'm a pro life Democrat. I'm not
even sure my party accepts me anymore. And that's what
I mean that it's complicated. That's what Colorado used to be,
the pink, purple is state where.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, it's there's a few states out there that I
think have an allergy to this brand of conservatism.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Well, I'll say our state is no longer purple. I
think it's my.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
City, my city, and I believe that we are the
last stronghold to decent.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Good politics in the state.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I think the road to a future Colorado runs through
Colorado Springs. We are going to teach the state in
the world what good not just good politics, but good
policies look like. And we and hire Wayne. It's a
great example of that. Let me, can I tell you
a little bit more of that relationship?
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Well, I'm just curious. So you guys running against each other? Yeah,
did you attack each other like on substance?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I'm sure you did.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Me.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Let me just Wayne, why do you believe you should
have been mayor and not him?
Speaker 3 (24:43):
That's a great question, because now I've brought him onto
my team.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Man, you're good.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
But she decided you didn't think he was qualified for
the job.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Why No, I didn't. I don't. I did not say
it was not qualified.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Let's be clear, Wayne, how Because Wayne is a former
sy Categoria of State for the state of Colorado. Wayne
is a former city council member. Wayne is a former
county commissioner two terms. Wayne is a former county clerk
and recorder. You can see he clearly has twenty plus
years of experience. What I bring to the table is
(25:18):
a different level of leadership than politics. Wayne ran his
campaign that was more traditional, and when you go from
Redo Blue into the political dynamics of Colorado Springs and
most American municipalities have this challenge. You have a good
boys club, a political dynamic.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
It's not even about Redo Blue.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
It is about just a small group of people that
make decisions on behalf of everyone. And I represent a
new generation of the table's bigger disables longer, Let's get
more voices at the table to help shape the future
of our city. And that was the main difference. We
started with a field of twelve. Of us six seven
(26:01):
of them all had political experience. I'm a political newcomer.
I am given a message that resonates with people. I'm
also keep in mind I also have a lot of
community leadership. My leadership, what I was saying, has been tried,
tested and proven. Everything I've done up to that point
(26:21):
was about radical collaboration, bringing people together to accomplish things
that are bigger than any one of us. This community
was willing to give that a chance. And I also
ran a campaign that was clean. I was attacked, some
of the candidates attacked each other, but my campaign was
clean and that sent a message throughout a lot of
(26:43):
residents and they wanted to give that type of leadership
a try.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
So I want to talk about a few things that
many cities deal with. And you know so right now,
data centers are this are a pain point in every
local community, it seems in the country.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
Were you in my meeting this morning?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, so that's what so I just did.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I was just just came out of an interview with
the Congressman Frankly on the East Coast, who represents probably
on the East coast, one of the hubs of the
data centers at the moment, Louden County, Virginia.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
And just the public's on.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Fire on it, you know, And whether it's about the
issue itself or just AI scares them, I don't know which.
How how is it playing in your community? And what's
where are you on this?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Yeah, this is fleshing out in real time. It's interesting
you asked that question. I had a meeting this morning.
I called an emergency meeting seven o'clock yesterday morning to
bring the key leaders around around his issue and to
ensure that we create a better we have a better strategy,
and we create alignment. And this is one of those areas, Chuck,
(27:58):
that I feel like where my leadership shines, because here
is the current crisis now in most many American cities
and now we're dealing with this is you are. You
only have one of two options. Either you are pro
data center and growth of all costs, or you are
against it because of all the issues, whether it's environment,
(28:21):
AI taking jobs, and there's a long list of them.
The answer is in the middle. In seminary, I learned
a term called churchham quid. It's Latin for a third way.
Churchham quid means a sense of belonging to two opposing values,
but neither one of them are the answers. The answer,
the sweet spot is in the middle, and we are
(28:42):
in the We're right in the center of developing that
middle solution of a balanced but responsible growth. We must
grow as a city. I do not want to become
a ghost down. We need to add more jobs, we
need more housing, like most American cities, but we cannot
do it in a way that is tone deaf and
not listen to the values and the needs of our residents.
(29:04):
And so it's it's around policies that allow us to
say what do we say yes to, what do we
say no to? And how do we put on display
to our residents all their needs around infrastructure concerns of
which they believe that these data centers will take away
from their quality.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I mean, let me put a few things at you,
because it's there are a few ideas circulating, and it's
in some ways it's just what this member of Congress
is sort of through out there, not as just different
ideas that are being debated that these data centers because
they can become security concerns. They've been attacked in when
(29:43):
that's another reason some communities are nervous about them, that
they ought to only be on military basis.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
M hm. Again, have you been have you what you're
my meetings? Yeah, and that's what makes coloratists bring in
such a unique city.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I was just going to say in that sense, Yeah,
you know, you guys have a big military base.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
They have their military installations.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Right, and they have plenty of access to power that
doesn't disrupt your community.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I assume correct, Yeah, with it.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
So I over the weekend, I called two of the
four stars just to get their perspective. And I called
the two start to get their perspective to What I
love about our military partners is that they're like me.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
And this is why, by the way, some of my.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Best relationships chuck when it comes to politics, believe it
or not, Some of my best relationships with how military
partners and also how Western folks, the cowboys, and what
they have in common is just old school traditional work
ethics or good people and they see that in me.
Our military partners will say we like it because may
(30:48):
are you a mission critical So checking in with our
military partners, they actually share the same values.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Around data centers.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
One of the things non negotiable is I heard that
data storage is really important in terms of our nation security.
We need it too, is and we don't want anything
that takes away from our quality of life because we
two are members of this community and we depend on
our utility infrastructure for our standard operations. Yes, yes, yes,
(31:18):
I love it that they are and it so how
do we get to how do we get to yes,
were the things that support our operations. And I've since learned,
like you said, yeah, there are some data centers that
will reside within the installations. There are and because of
you know, higher classification and security needs, there are some
too that they've told me will be outside of the installation.
(31:41):
And these are data centers that support the contracts the
Boeings and the aerospace defense companies that do support the military.
So it puts us in a very unique place in
terms of what I can help champion and as a
mayor and what I frankly have to say no too,
because there are certainly through our sholds where if it's
(32:05):
going to have a big impact in my community, I
would not be a good mayor to sit on the sidelines.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
What's your one of those red lines? You must have
a couple of red lines? Well we have we have
so right now.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
So Colorado Springs, Colordo Springs has its own utilities that
provides power, water, stormwater and what's that?
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Oh, yes, and sewort. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
And it's a city owned enterprise. It's its own business
and functions as itself. It's supposed to be profitable and
help reduce the the the great payers cost, it's working
and because we get to control those decisions. It's a
it's a government run entity, so we're benefiting compared to
a number of communities where it's run by private entities.
(32:52):
So we are looking at it in terms of where
are those threasholds, for example, anything ten megawatts and bigger.
We have terrorists and we put the ownership on the
data center and many, many, many times we expect them.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
To say no, thank you.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
So Tim, Mega Watson and Less our utility company will
support not just data centers, but the Swire, Coca Colas
and Freedom Lay and many of these companies that also
need power for their operations. So that those are things
that we have put in place. And we've done the
same thing too with on water conservation and restriction. We
(33:30):
we have been I'm really proud of my city that
we have been way ahead of the times that we're
in right now, as I check in with my colleagues
across the state and across the country, many of them
are trying to enact a lot of the things that
we as a city had have already done.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Well.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
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Speaker 2 (35:36):
So you expect to.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Exp have more data centers expanding color in color response
not necessary.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
I expect to have a data center.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Well two, I don't know yet, but we're not going
to be the community I just says, come because so
we're tightening our we're tightened our policies to ensure that
any projects, not just data centers.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
Data centers are now the new.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Political weaponize, right, no, no, no, And as we fight over
the new weaponize, and sometimes we missed that the fact
that what if there's a project that is about to
come to our city as actually requests a more power
than the data center, we'll say no to.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
So we have to look under the hood.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
And so we in Colorados we talk about large load users, okay,
and our utility company is very intentional about we're not
just weaponizing that. We're looking. We're assessing the right companies
as a whole. Colorado Spain says yes too, and frankly,
we say no to.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Do you feel that because you have a little more
control of your utilities, you have a little more leverage
we do.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
I'm frankly our residents have more control with you because
it's a and it's our border. Directors are a nine
city council member board, so we do have that in
some ways that advantage.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
I also think we.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
It's weird to bring it back to me, but we're
living in a time where independent leadership is needed more
than ever. I am independent of special interest groups. I
am independent of red blue. I get to make decisions
that are in the best interests of my community. I
am forty seven years old, I am four three years
into a four year term. Lord willing, I get to
(37:31):
serve four more years and guess what, I am going
to be a community member in this city.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
So I get to live with the decisions that I make.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
So I am not just fighting as for the right
decisions as mayor. I am fighting for the right decisions
you know when I am not when I'm for fifty
three at fifty two years old, and my kids are
living in this in this community either benefiting of being
hurt by the decisions that I made in my time
of service.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
The upside of these data centers is that they do
it's a way to bring some more tax dollars, right.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Absolutely, uh to pay for things, and I need it.
I want to be clear, what do you I.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Was just gonna say, I'm sure there's some residents who
don't like hearing that that you're going to consider this.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
What do you tell them? Tell them, tell them why
these tax dollars matter.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
So much well to those residents. And you've you've asked me,
asked me to fix your pop poles. You've asked me
to repave your roads. You've you've said you need more
police presence in our community. You've said that you we
have to do something about traffic safety, about road rage
(38:42):
and some of the a lot of number of these issues.
You've said that right now, you you want higher paying jobs.
You've said that you it's it's hard to live in
this in this community, and we have to go after
some of those of companies and and provide meaningful incentive.
Everything that my residents have asked me to do demands money.
(39:05):
Our city budget in the city outside the thirty ninth
largest city in the country, our city budget is minimum.
When I check in with my colleagues, I'm all from jealous,
not that they don't have needs, but they have much
three to four times their budget size, and so you
can't have it both ways. What is because we have
(39:27):
competing interests and that's what I mean again independent leadership.
To sit in the middle of these competing and.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
The data set argument's harder. I mean because it doesn't
create jobs.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
No, it doesn't. And as an economic developer, I'm aware
of that. Yeah, in fact, five six, seven years ago
and we were saying no because it doesn't great job.
But what we do know too is that their technology
is evolving. But that's not even why when making I
have to look at everything from a very from an
(40:01):
area that is calculated, systematic. We believe the right project
could bring the right investment, and that investment could be
used to further other investment in the city. What I'm
not saying is that we're going to be a city
open to all data centers. What I am saying is
that we're going to go through a criteria. We're going
(40:23):
to have policies to who we say yes to that
I don't know how many we're going to see. Is
that one is that too? But we're not going to
be the community that says welcome. We're going to look
at it in a very calculated form to say what
does our community need and how can we take those
revenues to actually court jobs that court companies that actually
(40:44):
provide more jobs for our residents. These things are not
a yes or they're not binary. They are very much systematic,
calculated all about strategies. One decision that unlocks opportunity for
more opportunities.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
All right, before I let you go, I'm going to
hit you with one more, which is on housing. I'm
very familiar with Pensacola, which is another military community, and
it is over the last five years they have suddenly
started to run out of housing and run out of Reynolds.
And my guess is you're running into some similar issues
(41:21):
in Colorado Springs. It's just like Pensacola, there are desirable
places to live.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
People keep coming. You've got government.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Contractors, a lot of temporary housing, all these things that
are that there's demands on that. Sometimes a smaller city
like yours doesn't have that capacity and desperately needs You know,
what is your housing situation.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Yeah, it's it's like many cities across the country, Colorado
Springs is not immune to the housing crisis in many ways.
What makes ours so unique is, like you said, Pensacola,
we are We're not only a desirable city from military partners,
we are a desirable city for the country.
Speaker 4 (42:04):
I mean for.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Seven years we were showing up in there. So you're
like all these other people. You move to Colorado and
you never leave.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Trust me.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
I hear that from my real from Native Colorado and says, yeah,
everybody who visits, don't visit because nobody leaves.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Yes, that's what they say. Don't don't tell them we're
desirable city. When we promote those rankings, people say.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Stop, stop, we don't want that to become more people, right.
Speaker 4 (42:27):
No, more people.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
But and we you know, we were hit like many
cities around the Great Recession. So at this current season,
we are twenty seven thousand units short of the housing
that we need. And when you project to about twenty
thirty two twenty thirty five, that's another six we're about
sixty thousand short. So what are we doing about it?
(42:49):
It's an all hands on deck approach, same thing with homelessness,
all hands and deck approach.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
From the zoning laws that we we that.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
I have control over to promote more housing, to the
rapid response process, through the permitting process that I can
use to encourage your development to to get to ribbon
cuttings faster, to move at the speed of business. To
our partnerships with the state and a lock unlock and
funding there, to a partnership with the FEDS. And because
(43:20):
of a lot of the hot funding that we have received,
a lot of that money that has come through me
in the last three years have now resulted in about
three thousand units that are currently open under construction, are
about to be open to our partnerships with the private developers,
and many of them now are being a.
Speaker 4 (43:40):
Part of the house.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
What is the biggest what's the biggest hold up? What
is the is it? What what keeps this from because
a lot of places are short, catch up is that.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
That's just what it is, just catch up that lot
enough we have.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
We're playing catch up because the recession, after the recession
of OA, not much development is what's happening.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
People were developed with hesitant.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
You get a surge of population during COVID and.
Speaker 4 (44:07):
We then we got a surge of population Colorado Springs.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
When I moved in twenty ten, moved from we were
that city where young people were saying, well, the city
is not cool enough. Now for two years, Zilla name
does the number one and two city for young people
to move in, and so now it's it's it's plain
catch up. We need to unlock the supply and the
diversity of housing. But frankly, it's also connected to what
(44:32):
we talked about the role of the state and in
legislation that the state often passes. It actually makes our
job harder. That makes it harder for.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Something that they passed that made one of them.
Speaker 4 (44:45):
Is a construction defect.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
The trial attorneys have these perfection scenario for them where
they can sue developers, primarily around condos.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
They work with owners.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
So when there are mistakes that are made in and
some of them a minor in these housing developments, they
work with the owners, and I don't want to minimize
you as an owner. We're owners and you buy a
home and you go, that's not what I purchase. But
what we've been asking from the state is the right
to remedy for these builders to go back and make
(45:17):
it right. But right now, the way the laws are
set up, it really penalizes the develop us from millions
and millions of dollars. So what they've said is we're
not building condos and town homes anymore, and so we
have this missing gap of.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
That's what do you feel like is the the status
of housing you're missing the most exactly.
Speaker 4 (45:37):
That's what I say.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
It's multi faceted. It's multi there's so many solutions. It's
not just one thing. That's a number of things that
we have to address to unlock the supply of housing.
And one that is really near and there, to me, Chuck,
is just housing innovation. The building materials are way too expensive.
We're trying to do the same thing that we've been
(46:01):
doing for the last eighty years and expect the result
to be different. I'm a big proponent of we have
to start thinking of new ways to build homes. Weather
it's three manufacturing, whether it's manufactured homes. I live in
a home that was built eighteen ninety eight. I live
in a historic part of Colorado Springs. If you try
to build the type of house that I live in
(46:22):
today that was that is about eight hundred thousand, but
it would be probably three million. But we don't build
homes the same way that we used to back then.
But we've been building homes the same way over the
last eighty years, and it's time to start rethinking how
we build homes in a way that still retains a
quality and value of those homes, to catch up to
(46:44):
speed of this most innovative technologically time that we live
in human history.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Mary Emmy, it's been great to get to know you.
Speaker 4 (46:56):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Got to be passionate about a lot of is chuck no, no, no,
I mean I get.
Speaker 4 (47:02):
A reminder of why why I'm doing this?
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Thank you, And you know, I also want, you know, people,
both to get to know independent leadership, but frankly to
talk about issues that everybody's talking about in their own
neighborhoods and just hear how's one community tackling it right.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
And it's been interesting.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
This would be some final way I really do believe
the leadership of our future, whether even if you're red
of blue, it's still you have to be.
Speaker 4 (47:26):
You have to have some level of independent leadership. I
think so.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Look, our first president was an independent. Hmmm, come on,
you know, and there's something there's something something to be
said about it. But uh, you know we only apparently
tried it once.
Speaker 4 (47:46):
That we preach. You can say that again.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
No, thank you for the role you're doing and telling
these stories, and I hope our conversation.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Can bring hope. It's about these things. Know, the polls
always tell you they want to elect an independent, but
then you know they never vote necessarily the way they
say not funny, yeah, and so, but once they see
it in action, then you know that's what you have
(48:15):
to do. It just takes time, one one office at
a time. Maryami, good luck, Thank you,
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(01:40):
As many of you know, very fascinated with this current
period of American politics where we have a lot of
frustration with the two major parties and you see various attempts.
Sometimes it's in red states you see independent candidates. I
featured them here. In some blue states where you see
independence that may lean wright, but there's been very few
(02:01):
examples of independence winning and governing. But one of those
places where we've seen that recently is in Colorado Springs.
And my guest right now is the mayor of Colorado Springs,
Mayor Yemmy Mobilade. Everybody calls him mayor Yemmy, like mayor Pete,
mister mayor.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Welcome to the Podcastuck, it's an honor to be on
your show. Truly, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Thank you for saying that. So look when the most interesting.
I mean, in some ways, you were a big splash
to me when you first got elected, not just because
you got elected as an independent, but you hired your
opponent to be your chief of staff. That is what
everybody's like, WHOA, this is different. Okay, walk me through
(02:48):
that campaign and what you were thinking on hiring your opponent.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
At the end of the day, I was elected to
do a job. And the job I was elected to
do transcend red and blue. Transcence politics. It's about human flourishing.
It's about city flourishing. It's about a quality of life,
and Americans are feeling the pain of They feel like
they're losing that. And when you are elected by your people,
(03:15):
your representative, they expect you to get the job done.
While most Americans do hold a political identity, when it
comes to the quality of life, they really do not care.
And when I was running, I meant it when I
said that this leader embraces the team of rivals approach.
(03:37):
I am an immigrant. I have this August eleven. In
a couple of months would be my thirty year anniversary
when I came into this country right the Chicago O'Hare airport,
went to college in Indiana and South Bend, Indiana. And
one of my connections to the American story is that
(03:58):
I share a birthday with a Braham Lincoln, and I'm
drawn into that period of American history because I'm drawn
to his story.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
And division in our country was.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Present, was present at that time in the mid eighteen hundreds,
and we have a president that united the country at
all odds, and one of the examples he showed was
his ability to bring in the best talent, regardless of
whether or not they were rivals of his. And so
my leadership, while it feels new and fresh in these times,
and I'm happy that there are some good reminders of
(04:30):
who we've always been as Americans, I want to be clear.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
This is old school.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
So we're bringing We're bringing old school leadership and making
it new school at a time that desperately needs new
examples of political leadership.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Let's talk about Colorado Springs. I'm gonna I'm gonna paint
a picture for you that's that of what some people.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
If you've think you know.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Colorado for a long time in politics, and certainly the
politics you know, in the nineties, Colorado Springs was the
home of cultural conservatism, yes, absolutely, Now Colorado Springs also
home of the Air Force Academy. Yes now, and it's
which is an army base. Yeah, so army and Air Force.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yes, So.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I think for some people of a certain era, and
I'll put myself there to see an independent get elected
as a surprise, somebody not not from from you know,
obviously from from the right side of the aisle. But
there had been some evidence of the last decade I've
seen in that congressional district got a bit more competitive
and you start to see and and a lot of
(05:41):
that I think is you chalk it up to Colorado Springs.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
But you chose to move there, and I'm just curious
how it.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Clearly you embedded yourself in the community pretty quickly right
to be asked to be mayor. And I'm just curious,
how would you describe how you were able to convince
people that have probably lived there a lot longer than
you have that you'd be the best person.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
That's a great question, And Chuck, I'm still trying to
figure it out.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
If I'm being honest.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
How do you feel like you connected? Tell me how
you connected it? You clearly have connected to the community.
I do you believe it is?
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Faith?
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
What is it?
Speaker 4 (06:23):
It's all the above, it truly is.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I am the first non Republican to be elected since
Colorado Springs started doing mayor election elections in nineteen seventy nine,
the year I was born. I am a true independent.
In fact, I take a lot of pride in being
dead center. I It's complicated, Chuck, and this is the
(06:49):
politics of most Americans. We try to put them in
these polarized and opposite and I when you sit down
and actually talk with people, you realize it's it's competent.
It's complicated. I'm a business leader in Colorado Springs. I'm
I'm an immigrant. I'm the first black mayor as well.
I am I am a business I'm a former pastor
(07:10):
in Colorado Springs. You can already see pieces of my
story that it's hard to box me. And even though
people try to box me, and I and I went.
I ran for office because I love this community and
I want to be the change that I do want
to see in the world. It's nobody else's response. We
can we can complain about the state of affairs. We
can say, Okay, what are we going to do about it?
(07:32):
And part of me chuck between us. I wanted to
see what it looks like to have a regular person
with a compelling message and people the silent majority like
me that I'm not supposed to be in politics that
actually should be running away. I have a front row
seat into this experience. And I still hate politics, I
(07:55):
want to be clear, but I love public service and
it's rewarding and meaningful to serve.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Politics suck.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
But I wanted to see is it possible for a
regular person with a story like mine to disrupt the
world of politics as an independent and this miracle story.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
I'm still trying. I'm still trying to wake up on
this dream.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
And I put out a message that was compelling, that
connected with the hearts and minds of Americans and it
paid off. And it shows you that there is an
appetite for different kind of leadership that is not red
or blue, that is about a shared vision about the
future of our florishan as Americans.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Well, let's talk about some of the challenges you're dealing
with right now as mayor. Probably the biggest one or
at least symbolically that nationally people may be wondering about,
is the loss of the Space Command to Huntsville. And
you know, this is a delegate political situation. As a city,
you chose not to sue and instead, I think there's
(08:59):
still an attempt to cooperate. You know, sometimes these decisions
are very partisan. It feels as if he wanted to
reward a red state over a blue state. That's how
you feel, is if you guys got caught in the
middle of that.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Because absolutely, yeah, yeah, absolutely, I came into office and
the decision was reversed. So before President Trump left in
twenty twenty, he moved it to Alabama. Biden came moved
it back to Colorado, but he thought with two different
(09:35):
president and it got reversed. But behind it all a
group of Americans he rose, who wake up every day
to serve our country. When I speak with them, they're
caught up in this political dynamic. Do I want to
lose BACE Command? Absolutely not. We are proud military community, Chuck.
(09:55):
One hundred thousand veterans, forty five thousand active service members.
That's about When you think about it, that's almost about
one hundred and fifty thousand.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
We're a city of half a million.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
We're talking about a quarter of a population of our
city of military oriented, high quality of life. This is
a top city for many of our military members in
many ways. I'm wearing this right, white and blue today
because I got to participate for Carson in the memorial
service to honor our fallen.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
That is who we are.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
So we fought hard to keep Space Command in this
city that rightfully belongs. I can't do anything about politics,
but what I can do is to understand the political
dynamics around is what is the best decision for both
the active members of our active military members that are
serving Space Command, the civilians here from them, as well
(10:48):
as how do we keep moving forward as a community.
While we knew that decision was coming, and I'm proud
to say that I still have a great relationship with
the Command of Space Command. We've actually developed I've developed
a good relationship with Huntsville, the city that's moving to.
I've connected with the mayor. We're going to work together
(11:10):
on behalf of military members and in behalf of this country.
And to his credit, when I met him at actually
General white In's house. He looked at me and said, Mayor,
don't worry. We're going to take good care of your people.
That's another mayor. That is putting politics, I mean putting
people ahead of politics.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
So we do the best with that is leadership.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
We do the best with the political dynamics, and at
the same time, we find ways to fill in the gap.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
And I'm proud to say so.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Many more opportunities are coming to Colorado Springs, even though
Space Command is moving.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So it sounds like, I mean, you could have picked
up you could have filed a lawsuit, picked a political fight.
It might have made some people feel emotionally better. It's
also possible bull he could have decided to take more
away from Colorado Springs, right, right, I mean, I assume
(12:08):
these are the type of things you guys had to
think about every day.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
I still get criticized for not suing. I'm both.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I want to be clear on both sides, because there's
in Colorado.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
But I don't know what a lawsuit as much as
I understand I'm you know, I'm sitting here going lawsuit
against the administration, right, good luck?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Right? I mean, I you know.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
I am the chief executive in my city organization. In fact,
I was at a DC trip and I had interviews
with two or three media folks over there, and he
asked me about my opinion, and I said, whether or
not you agree with the president, I understand it is
within his purview. I make decisions every day on behalf
(12:58):
of the city. Every time I make it decision, half
of the people are happy, the other half not happy.
It is within his purview. So in that way, the
President is within his right. I don't like that decision.
We fought hard to make a case to keep it here.
We worked hard, Chuck to keep it here. Every time
I'm in DC, I'm at the White House. I did
(13:20):
that under Biden's administration. I'm also doing that other President Trump.
It's my job to advocate for the city and in
my case, advocating for our military members as well their spouses.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
And family members.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
We fought hard to keep it, but the President moved that,
and he's within his right suing. It's really just political posture,
and I think Americans are tired of political postrate.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
So you're running for reelection, and so why do you
believe you deserve another term?
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Because One, my leadership is still needed more than ever.
We're talking about this independent way of leading, a leadership
that is not tied to red or blue, but a
shared vision about the future of my city.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Two.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
I am proud of my accomplishments. This city is a
lot safer than when I first took office. We have
hired nearly three hundred officers in a very short amount
of time. You know, you think about where we've come
from in terms of twenty twenty George Floyd, and how
that has that impact on our police department, and to
(14:31):
see this wave of officers leave, and now we have
strengthened the force. A nine one one call center operation
is it fully staffed the first time since twenty eighteen.
What that means is now eighty six percent of calls
and now answered under twenty seconds or less. We have
improved response times from twenty four minutes to eleven minutes.
(14:52):
Practically every area of the data we're showing an impressive decline.
We have brought the community together in ways. We talk
about my chief of staff, who was my political rival.
Here's what's happened in Colorado Springs. A police chief, deputy
chief of police in the same room as a formerly
(15:12):
incarcerated resident working on public safety priorities and policies together.
That is a kind of leadership I have brought to
the city, and it is a leadership that has moved
us forward and have had so many deliverables. I haven't
even talked about economic development at a time where affordability
is a pain point. We are have had the most
(15:33):
economic development wins in our cities history. And it takes
a different kind of leadership that doesn't start from red
or blue, but sees opportunity and brings people together to
accomplish those deliverables.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
There's some things you can't do that's out of your
purview that people may think is in your purview, but
maybe it belongs to the state or it belongs to
the Feds, and I know that that can do. And
sometimes photo take they don't want to hear, yeah, but right,
you know they just want to here.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
But what's something.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
That you're dealing with the state on that you wish
the state understood should be more of a priority than
they make it.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Oh, your truck in Colorado Springs politics? My guess is
your trucking Colorado politics? And one of this immigrant and
outside looking in now participating fully in the American experiment experience.
I've only been a citizen, not that long. We're talking
(16:33):
six seven years ago. When I finally was able to
I've been in the country was thirty and so to
be able to vote and not just vote, but also
run for office.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
And the reason why that's important is I.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Came from a world of tribalism, political tribalism, where a
world that we were taught your main mission is for
your tribe to dominate and to lead and destroy the
other tribe. When you look at many parts of the
world that operates that way, you see very little progress.
You see the same challenges over and over. I chose
(17:05):
this country that I love so much, and one of
the thin parts of this that I love about our
country is this thing we call democracy. The very essence
of democracy welcomes the competition of ideas and values that
is changing on the national level, surely on the state level.
(17:26):
I have no issues against my democratic colleagues, but we
have a state that is led primarily by Democrats, and
because we lack the competition of ideas, we're now hurt
in the areas of public safety, in the areas of
economic opportunity.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
You name it. I mean the.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Recent rankings came out and Colorado is now the third
most expensive place to live in a country. That is
not a rank and that proud that I'm proud of.
And so I can't do much about the bills that
get push forward in a state level, that gets signed
into law.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
We do our best to get ahead of it.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
We do our best to welcome our state legislators into
our local dynamic thing. I sometimes I give them toward
let's go into business tour, talk to business owners, talk
to staff, get the real story so that you can
represent us well. And that is frustrating as heck, not
much I can.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
How would you describe your how would you describe your
relationship with the governor?
Speaker 4 (18:28):
It's good, I am.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
I take I take great pride in having a good
relationship with with leaders from.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Both all sides of the aisle. I have I have.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
I have relationships that spend all the way from MAGA
to DSA.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Now I am frustrated with because.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
I I my my idealism believes that if I can
meet with them, if I could sit with them, if
we can we can debate the issues we I believe
in task conflict over real relationship conflict. Where we're getting
at as a country is we're name calling and we
need a debate around the issues. And sometimes that works,
(19:08):
but many times I feel like people are stuck in
those values and chuck, I gotta be honest. I got
to be honest. I get weary in this work of unity.
It is harder. It's so hard. I met with a
group of leaders today two evenings ago, and leaders that
(19:28):
I get to see in the community, and they represent
these I would call the silent majority. And though this
leader put his arms on me and said thank you
for fighting for unity, and I just got really teary
and I said, I'm weary. I don't know how long
I can do it. I said, I'm tired. I'm working hard.
I maybe this dream is just a pipe dream, it's
(19:51):
not real. And he looked at me and he said,
there's so many of us that are like you in
this city. Keep going. We're behind you. We don't up
at city Hall. We're not calling you office, but we
do exist. We see you. We represent a big group
of Americans that love the work you're doing. Keep going.
And that was really important for me to hear.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
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I look, you wouldn't have gotten elected if there wasn't
that belief. I mean, there clearly is an exhaustion. It's
out there. And you know, in some ways you have
(22:03):
an advantage because you you've identified your advantage. You've been
both you've been able to be here as an observer
and at the same time, you came from somewhere where
you have a comparative and it's it is this, you know,
And I and I think my guess is people like
the fact that you can see it that way and
(22:27):
realize it's yeah, that's work. Yeah, you know, we know
it doesn't work. And and you know, look, I I
I bow at the altar of the of the cliche.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Politics ab horrors of vacuum.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
And it's why politics ab horrors of vacuum, meaning there's
always a desire for a check, always a desire for
some sort of you know, ful crome, right whatever, and
and so you know this stuff goes in cycles. You know,
I think I think the lack of two party competition
(23:02):
in Colorado is a is a certain brand of Republicanism.
And you know the Romney Republican Party can be competitive
in Colorado.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Right yeah, I I.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
On the Republican side than the and then of course,
you know that's why the Democratic tent looks bigger at
the moment.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I think Eastern Colorado. No, that that that that is
well said. I I long for the days. You have
a former governor of Colorado, Governor Ritter, who was after
Governor Owens, who is a Republican governor. Governor Ritter is
a Democratic governor. I remember when Governor Rider said, I'm
(23:39):
a conservative Democrat. I'm a pro life Democrat. I'm not
even sure my party accepts me anymore. And that's what
I mean that it's complicated. That's what Colorado used to be,
the pink, purple is state where.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, it's there's a few states out there that I
think have an allergy to this brand of conservatism.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Well, I'll say our state is no longer purple. I
think it's my.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
City, my city, and I believe that we are the
last stronghold to decent.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Good politics in the state.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I think the road to a future Colorado runs through
Colorado Springs. We are going to teach the state in
the world what good not just good politics, but good
policies look like. And we and hire Wayne. It's a
great example of that. Let me, can I tell you
a little bit more of that relationship?
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Well, I'm just curious. So you guys running against each other? Yeah,
did you attack each other like on substance?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I'm sure you did.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Me.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Let me just Wayne, why do you believe you should
have been mayor and not him?
Speaker 3 (24:43):
That's a great question, because now I've brought him onto
my team.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Man, you're good.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
But she decided you didn't think he was qualified for
the job.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Why No, I didn't. I don't. I did not say
it was not qualified.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Let's be clear, Wayne, how Because Wayne is a former
sy Categoria of State for the state of Colorado. Wayne
is a former city council member. Wayne is a former
county commissioner two terms. Wayne is a former county clerk
and recorder. You can see he clearly has twenty plus
years of experience. What I bring to the table is
(25:18):
a different level of leadership than politics. Wayne ran his
campaign that was more traditional, and when you go from
Redo Blue into the political dynamics of Colorado Springs and
most American municipalities have this challenge. You have a good
boys club, a political dynamic.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
It's not even about Redo Blue.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
It is about just a small group of people that
make decisions on behalf of everyone. And I represent a
new generation of the table's bigger disables longer, Let's get
more voices at the table to help shape the future
of our city. And that was the main difference. We
started with a field of twelve. Of us six seven
(26:01):
of them all had political experience. I'm a political newcomer.
I am given a message that resonates with people. I'm
also keep in mind I also have a lot of
community leadership. My leadership, what I was saying, has been tried,
tested and proven. Everything I've done up to that point
(26:21):
was about radical collaboration, bringing people together to accomplish things
that are bigger than any one of us. This community
was willing to give that a chance. And I also
ran a campaign that was clean. I was attacked, some
of the candidates attacked each other, but my campaign was
clean and that sent a message throughout a lot of
(26:43):
residents and they wanted to give that type of leadership
a try.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
So I want to talk about a few things that
many cities deal with. And you know so right now,
data centers are this are a pain point in every
local community, it seems in the country.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
Were you in my meeting this morning?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, so that's what so I just did.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I was just just came out of an interview with
the Congressman Frankly on the East Coast, who represents probably
on the East coast, one of the hubs of the
data centers at the moment, Louden County, Virginia.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
And just the public's on.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Fire on it, you know, And whether it's about the
issue itself or just AI scares them, I don't know which.
How how is it playing in your community? And what's
where are you on this?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Yeah, this is fleshing out in real time. It's interesting
you asked that question. I had a meeting this morning.
I called an emergency meeting seven o'clock yesterday morning to
bring the key leaders around around his issue and to
ensure that we create a better we have a better strategy,
and we create alignment. And this is one of those areas, Chuck,
(27:58):
that I feel like where my leadership shines, because here
is the current crisis now in most many American cities
and now we're dealing with this is you are. You
only have one of two options. Either you are pro
data center and growth of all costs, or you are
against it because of all the issues, whether it's environment,
(28:21):
AI taking jobs, and there's a long list of them.
The answer is in the middle. In seminary, I learned
a term called churchham quid. It's Latin for a third way.
Churchham quid means a sense of belonging to two opposing values,
but neither one of them are the answers. The answer,
the sweet spot is in the middle, and we are
(28:42):
in the We're right in the center of developing that
middle solution of a balanced but responsible growth. We must
grow as a city. I do not want to become
a ghost down. We need to add more jobs, we
need more housing, like most American cities, but we cannot
do it in a way that is tone deaf and
not listen to the values and the needs of our residents.
(29:04):
And so it's it's around policies that allow us to
say what do we say yes to, what do we
say no to? And how do we put on display
to our residents all their needs around infrastructure concerns of
which they believe that these data centers will take away
from their quality.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I mean, let me put a few things at you,
because it's there are a few ideas circulating, and it's
in some ways it's just what this member of Congress
is sort of through out there, not as just different
ideas that are being debated that these data centers because
they can become security concerns. They've been attacked in when
(29:43):
that's another reason some communities are nervous about them, that
they ought to only be on military basis.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
M hm. Again, have you been have you what you're
my meetings? Yeah, and that's what makes coloratists bring in
such a unique city.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I was just going to say in that sense, Yeah,
you know, you guys have a big military base.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
They have their military installations.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Right, and they have plenty of access to power that
doesn't disrupt your community.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I assume correct, Yeah, with it.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
So I over the weekend, I called two of the
four stars just to get their perspective. And I called
the two start to get their perspective to What I
love about our military partners is that they're like me.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
And this is why, by the way, some of my.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Best relationships chuck when it comes to politics, believe it
or not, Some of my best relationships with how military
partners and also how Western folks, the cowboys, and what
they have in common is just old school traditional work
ethics or good people and they see that in me.
Our military partners will say we like it because may
(30:48):
are you a mission critical So checking in with our
military partners, they actually share the same values.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Around data centers.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
One of the things non negotiable is I heard that
data storage is really important in terms of our nation security.
We need it too, is and we don't want anything
that takes away from our quality of life because we
two are members of this community and we depend on
our utility infrastructure for our standard operations. Yes, yes, yes,
(31:18):
I love it that they are and it so how
do we get to how do we get to yes,
were the things that support our operations. And I've since learned,
like you said, yeah, there are some data centers that
will reside within the installations. There are and because of
you know, higher classification and security needs, there are some
too that they've told me will be outside of the installation.
(31:41):
And these are data centers that support the contracts the
Boeings and the aerospace defense companies that do support the military.
So it puts us in a very unique place in
terms of what I can help champion and as a
mayor and what I frankly have to say no too,
because there are certainly through our sholds where if it's
(32:05):
going to have a big impact in my community, I
would not be a good mayor to sit on the sidelines.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
What's your one of those red lines? You must have
a couple of red lines? Well we have we have
so right now.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
So Colorado Springs, Colordo Springs has its own utilities that
provides power, water, stormwater and what's that?
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Oh, yes, and sewort. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
And it's a city owned enterprise. It's its own business
and functions as itself. It's supposed to be profitable and
help reduce the the the great payers cost, it's working
and because we get to control those decisions. It's a
it's a government run entity, so we're benefiting compared to
a number of communities where it's run by private entities.
(32:52):
So we are looking at it in terms of where
are those threasholds, for example, anything ten megawatts and bigger.
We have terrorists and we put the ownership on the
data center and many, many, many times we expect them.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
To say no, thank you.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
So Tim, Mega Watson and Less our utility company will
support not just data centers, but the Swire, Coca Colas
and Freedom Lay and many of these companies that also
need power for their operations. So that those are things
that we have put in place. And we've done the
same thing too with on water conservation and restriction. We
(33:30):
we have been I'm really proud of my city that
we have been way ahead of the times that we're
in right now, as I check in with my colleagues
across the state and across the country, many of them
are trying to enact a lot of the things that
we as a city had have already done.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Well.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
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Speaker 2 (35:36):
So you expect to.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Exp have more data centers expanding color in color response
not necessary.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
I expect to have a data center.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Well two, I don't know yet, but we're not going
to be the community I just says, come because so
we're tightening our we're tightened our policies to ensure that
any projects, not just data centers.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
Data centers are now the new.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Political weaponize, right, no, no, no, And as we fight over
the new weaponize, and sometimes we missed that the fact
that what if there's a project that is about to
come to our city as actually requests a more power
than the data center, we'll say no to.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
So we have to look under the hood.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
And so we in Colorados we talk about large load users, okay,
and our utility company is very intentional about we're not
just weaponizing that. We're looking. We're assessing the right companies
as a whole. Colorado Spain says yes too, and frankly,
we say no to.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Do you feel that because you have a little more
control of your utilities, you have a little more leverage
we do.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
I'm frankly our residents have more control with you because
it's a and it's our border. Directors are a nine
city council member board, so we do have that in
some ways that advantage.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
I also think we.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
It's weird to bring it back to me, but we're
living in a time where independent leadership is needed more
than ever. I am independent of special interest groups. I
am independent of red blue. I get to make decisions
that are in the best interests of my community. I
am forty seven years old, I am four three years
into a four year term. Lord willing, I get to
(37:31):
serve four more years and guess what, I am going
to be a community member in this city.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
So I get to live with the decisions that I make.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
So I am not just fighting as for the right
decisions as mayor. I am fighting for the right decisions
you know when I am not when I'm for fifty
three at fifty two years old, and my kids are
living in this in this community either benefiting of being
hurt by the decisions that I made in my time
of service.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
The upside of these data centers is that they do
it's a way to bring some more tax dollars, right.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Absolutely, uh to pay for things, and I need it.
I want to be clear, what do you I.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Was just gonna say, I'm sure there's some residents who
don't like hearing that that you're going to consider this.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
What do you tell them? Tell them, tell them why
these tax dollars matter.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
So much well to those residents. And you've you've asked me,
asked me to fix your pop poles. You've asked me
to repave your roads. You've you've said you need more
police presence in our community. You've said that you we
have to do something about traffic safety, about road rage
(38:42):
and some of the a lot of number of these issues.
You've said that right now, you you want higher paying jobs.
You've said that you it's it's hard to live in
this in this community, and we have to go after
some of those of companies and and provide meaningful incentive.
Everything that my residents have asked me to do demands money.
(39:05):
Our city budget in the city outside the thirty ninth
largest city in the country, our city budget is minimum.
When I check in with my colleagues, I'm all from jealous,
not that they don't have needs, but they have much
three to four times their budget size, and so you
can't have it both ways. What is because we have
(39:27):
competing interests and that's what I mean again independent leadership.
To sit in the middle of these competing and.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
The data set argument's harder. I mean because it doesn't
create jobs.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
No, it doesn't. And as an economic developer, I'm aware
of that. Yeah, in fact, five six, seven years ago
and we were saying no because it doesn't great job.
But what we do know too is that their technology
is evolving. But that's not even why when making I
have to look at everything from a very from an
(40:01):
area that is calculated, systematic. We believe the right project
could bring the right investment, and that investment could be
used to further other investment in the city. What I'm
not saying is that we're going to be a city
open to all data centers. What I am saying is
that we're going to go through a criteria. We're going
(40:23):
to have policies to who we say yes to that
I don't know how many we're going to see. Is
that one is that too? But we're not going to
be the community that says welcome. We're going to look
at it in a very calculated form to say what
does our community need and how can we take those
revenues to actually court jobs that court companies that actually
(40:44):
provide more jobs for our residents. These things are not
a yes or they're not binary. They are very much systematic,
calculated all about strategies. One decision that unlocks opportunity for
more opportunities.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
All right, before I let you go, I'm going to
hit you with one more, which is on housing. I'm
very familiar with Pensacola, which is another military community, and
it is over the last five years they have suddenly
started to run out of housing and run out of Reynolds.
And my guess is you're running into some similar issues
(41:21):
in Colorado Springs. It's just like Pensacola, there are desirable
places to live.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
People keep coming. You've got government.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Contractors, a lot of temporary housing, all these things that
are that there's demands on that. Sometimes a smaller city
like yours doesn't have that capacity and desperately needs You know,
what is your housing situation.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Yeah, it's it's like many cities across the country, Colorado
Springs is not immune to the housing crisis in many ways.
What makes ours so unique is, like you said, Pensacola,
we are We're not only a desirable city from military partners,
we are a desirable city for the country.
Speaker 4 (42:04):
I mean for.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Seven years we were showing up in there. So you're
like all these other people. You move to Colorado and
you never leave.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Trust me.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
I hear that from my real from Native Colorado and says, yeah,
everybody who visits, don't visit because nobody leaves.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Yes, that's what they say. Don't don't tell them we're
desirable city. When we promote those rankings, people say.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Stop, stop, we don't want that to become more people, right.
Speaker 4 (42:27):
No, more people.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
But and we you know, we were hit like many
cities around the Great Recession. So at this current season,
we are twenty seven thousand units short of the housing
that we need. And when you project to about twenty
thirty two twenty thirty five, that's another six we're about
sixty thousand short. So what are we doing about it?
(42:49):
It's an all hands on deck approach, same thing with homelessness,
all hands and deck approach.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
From the zoning laws that we we that.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
I have control over to promote more housing, to the
rapid response process, through the permitting process that I can
use to encourage your development to to get to ribbon
cuttings faster, to move at the speed of business. To
our partnerships with the state and a lock unlock and
funding there, to a partnership with the FEDS. And because
(43:20):
of a lot of the hot funding that we have received,
a lot of that money that has come through me
in the last three years have now resulted in about
three thousand units that are currently open under construction, are
about to be open to our partnerships with the private developers,
and many of them now are being a.
Speaker 4 (43:40):
Part of the house.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
What is the biggest what's the biggest hold up? What
is the is it? What what keeps this from because
a lot of places are short, catch up is that.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
That's just what it is, just catch up that lot
enough we have.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
We're playing catch up because the recession, after the recession
of OA, not much development is what's happening.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
People were developed with hesitant.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
You get a surge of population during COVID and.
Speaker 4 (44:07):
We then we got a surge of population Colorado Springs.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
When I moved in twenty ten, moved from we were
that city where young people were saying, well, the city
is not cool enough. Now for two years, Zilla name
does the number one and two city for young people
to move in, and so now it's it's it's plain
catch up. We need to unlock the supply and the
diversity of housing. But frankly, it's also connected to what
(44:32):
we talked about the role of the state and in
legislation that the state often passes. It actually makes our
job harder. That makes it harder for.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Something that they passed that made one of them.
Speaker 4 (44:45):
Is a construction defect.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
The trial attorneys have these perfection scenario for them where
they can sue developers, primarily around condos.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
They work with owners.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
So when there are mistakes that are made in and
some of them a minor in these housing developments, they
work with the owners, and I don't want to minimize
you as an owner. We're owners and you buy a
home and you go, that's not what I purchase. But
what we've been asking from the state is the right
to remedy for these builders to go back and make
(45:17):
it right. But right now, the way the laws are
set up, it really penalizes the develop us from millions
and millions of dollars. So what they've said is we're
not building condos and town homes anymore, and so we
have this missing gap of.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
That's what do you feel like is the the status
of housing you're missing the most exactly.
Speaker 4 (45:37):
That's what I say.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
It's multi faceted. It's multi there's so many solutions. It's
not just one thing. That's a number of things that
we have to address to unlock the supply of housing.
And one that is really near and there, to me, Chuck,
is just housing innovation. The building materials are way too expensive.
We're trying to do the same thing that we've been
(46:01):
doing for the last eighty years and expect the result
to be different. I'm a big proponent of we have
to start thinking of new ways to build homes. Weather
it's three manufacturing, whether it's manufactured homes. I live in
a home that was built eighteen ninety eight. I live
in a historic part of Colorado Springs. If you try
to build the type of house that I live in
(46:22):
today that was that is about eight hundred thousand, but
it would be probably three million. But we don't build
homes the same way that we used to back then.
But we've been building homes the same way over the
last eighty years, and it's time to start rethinking how
we build homes in a way that still retains a
quality and value of those homes, to catch up to
(46:44):
speed of this most innovative technologically time that we live
in human history.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Mary Emmy, it's been great to get to know you.
Speaker 4 (46:56):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Got to be passionate about a lot of is chuck no, no, no,
I mean I get.
Speaker 4 (47:02):
A reminder of why why I'm doing this?
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Thank you, And you know, I also want, you know, people,
both to get to know independent leadership, but frankly to
talk about issues that everybody's talking about in their own
neighborhoods and just hear how's one community tackling it right.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
And it's been interesting.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
This would be some final way I really do believe
the leadership of our future, whether even if you're red
of blue, it's still you have to be.
Speaker 4 (47:26):
You have to have some level of independent leadership. I
think so.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Look, our first president was an independent. Hmmm, come on,
you know, and there's something there's something something to be
said about it. But uh, you know we only apparently
tried it once.
Speaker 4 (47:46):
That we preach. You can say that again.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
No, thank you for the role you're doing and telling
these stories, and I hope our conversation.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Can bring hope. It's about these things. Know, the polls
always tell you they want to elect an independent, but
then you know they never vote necessarily the way they
say not funny, yeah, and so, but once they see
it in action, then you know that's what you have
(48:15):
to do. It just takes time, one one office at
a time. Maryami, good luck, Thank you,
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