August 16, 2025 • 36 mins
Rising Democratic star and Mississippi state representative Justis Gibbs joins Chuck Todd to challenge the conventional wisdom that Mississippi is irreversibly red, arguing that the state is slowly trending purple and could be politically transformed with proper Democratic investment and a willingness to break free from an entitled older generation of politicians who've written off entire regions. Gibbs, representing the younger generation jumping into Democratic politics, explains how Mississippi's deep-red reputation masks a more complex electoral reality where disengaged Black voters and moderate white Republicans could be mobilized if Democrats brought "visual change" and stopped underinvesting in states they've prematurely conceded. The conversation explores the ongoing Jackson water crisis as a symptom of broader political dysfunction, where Republican officials refuse to work with Democratic leaders even on basic infrastructure, while Gibbs argues that Democrats' reluctance to disagree with their own coalition and their toxic brand perception prevent them from competing in culturally conservative areas where they could actually win.
Gibbs makes the provocative case that Mississippi Democrats need to embrace ideological flexibility and invest in long-term organizing rather than assuming demographic destiny will deliver victories, pointing to the benefits swing states enjoy from competitive politics and arguing that proper investment could make Mississippi politically relevant again. He addresses the challenge of overcoming voter perceptions that youth equals inexperience while navigating a political landscape where established politicians feel entitled to office regardless of results, particularly in addressing crises like Jackson's water emergency that expose the consequences of partisan gridlock. The discussion reveals how national Democratic strategy has abandoned entire regions, missing opportunities to build sustainable majorities in states where cultural conservatism doesn't necessarily translate to permanent Republican dominance, offering a roadmap for how younger politicians can challenge both entrenched incumbents and defeatist party orthodoxy to expand the electoral map in unexpected places.
Timeline:
(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)
00:00 Justis Gibbs joins the Chuck ToddCast!
01:00 How Justis got into politics/origin story
02:45 The younger generation is jumping into Democratic politics
04:00 Older generation of politicians feel entitled to their office
05:15 Voters don’t perceive youth as qualified for office
06:30 Mississippi shouldn’t be deep red, how can Democrats change that?
08:15 Mississippi is slowly trending more purple/blue
09:15 The Democratic party has underinvested in Mississippi
10:45 Lack of engagement from black voters and moderate white voters
12:45 The importance of bringing “visual change”
14:45 Status of the underreported Jackson water crisis
17:45 Is the water crisis a symptom of longstanding political dysfunction?
19:00 Lack of bipartisan cooperation in Mississippi
20:00 Republicans refuse to work with Democratic leaders in Jackson
22:00 Are Mississippi Democrats culturally conservative across the board?
23:45 Democrats need to be willing to disagree with their coalition
25:30 What’s wrong with the Democratic brand, and how do you fix it?
27:45 Democrats could win Mississippi if they put in the work
30:00 The benefits of being a swing state
33:00 Mississippi could be transformed politically with proper investment
34:30 Ole Miss or Mississippi State?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
And joining me now is Justice Gibbs. He is the
legislature down in Mississippi, born and raised, a lifelong resident
of Jackson, Mississippi, and part of our continuing series to
elevate new voices, and Justice Gibbs joins me now, Justice,
nice to me.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Too great to be here, man, great to be here,
and so glad that you're allowing Mississippi to let his
voice be heard. Well.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Good look. One of my favorite bosses ever is a
man named Mandy Lack, and he's been the guy who
up with Mississippi today. I think he lives in Jackson
these days, so you may have seen him or come
across him every now and then. And he has an
interesting story of what got his ancestors to Mississippi. It's
an unusual one. Jewish immigrants who end up making clothes
(00:54):
for the Confederacy. They didn't know any of They were
just immigrants and it was a job. They had no idea,
you know, it was one of the things. And it's something.
The more he learned about that, it just made him
want to invest more and spend more time there. So,
but Justice, give me your origin story, give us the
how did you get into politics? Why what what was
the motivation? What was the everybody was this one reason,
(01:15):
like I'm getting in I want to solve this problem,
I want to do this. What was that for you?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah? It was kind of most how fascinated for me.
I first say that I grew up in a family
of public servants. My father, I was a circuit judge
when I was born. My mother served in the legislature
for about six years prior to running for a circuit
judge herself. So, you know, a lot of the kitchen
table conversations that we had always sort of you know,
(01:40):
revolved around politics or policy or what was going on
in our city and our state and in our country. Uh.
And you know, growing up, you know, going to our
high school, serving in the student councils, something that was
a really natural knack for me. But when I came
home at the graduating from Howard University, attending law school,
(02:02):
I noticed something very interesting, which was, you know, this
sort of criticism that is directed to young people about
you know, not exercising their rights to vote, not you know,
helping either political party, you know, with their margins. And
what I really recognize is that there is just such
an empty void with young leadership on all levels, city, county, state,
(02:25):
and I want it to be a part of changing that. So,
at age twenty seven, decided to run for an open
seat in my area and that's really how I got involved.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
You know, it's interesting. I feel like there's quite a
few in people in your generation in Mississippi who've decided
to quote not wait their turn right and try to
beat go challenge the establishment a little bit, particularly on
the Democratic side, because I think there's been some what
have you guys been doing right? You know, we're still
in the same place, you know, haven't made the progress
(02:58):
that I think people they should be made. There was
a new mayor of Jackson not that long ago and
sort of the same mindset. So I do feel as
if whether you're whether we call you older gen Z
or younger millennial, where do you feel like you fall
in that?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
A younger millennial? But there's also a great bucket of
young gen Z folks who are interested in politics in
Mississippi as well. It's just that we need to find
space for them to serve in elected office. I think
that there is an umptem amount of leadership development courses
(03:36):
and leadership cohorts you know. I mean there's so many
that you can't even name them. But you know, once
they are prepared, we shouldn't send them to the next cohort. Weh'
just the elected office. We should put them in a
position of making these decisions that are going to be
solidified when we are raising our families. You know, and
I agree with you. I think that that it is,
you know, we can't treat our elected offices as property.
(03:58):
You know, I think that it's okay to pass the
baton or to say that, you know, your expertise can
be used outside of the electric faction.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So, you know, it's been interesting, you know, particularly with
you know, one of these these generational arguments have actually
been sometimes sharpest among African American communities where you've had
somebody who was a long time hero maybe stay in
office a little bit too long because you know, they
broke the barrier right they got there, and there is
so I under I weirdly understand the sense of entitlement. Hey,
(04:30):
I broke down this barrier. You know, I made this happen.
The reason this is possible is because of what I did.
What do you say to that older generation that feels
as if Hey, wait a minute. I did all this
hard work I took, you know, I took literal beatings
in order to break through these barriers. But some of
(04:50):
them aren't ready to pass the baton.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
What do you say to that, Well, the first part
of your inquiry was the word I. You know, I
did this, I did that, I took the So if
I did this, then I'm entitled to this. When it's
never really supposed to be about the eye. It's supposed
to be about the community. It's supposed to be about
the progress. And if it's about the eye, well I
also did that. I mean, as a young person at
(05:13):
age twenty seven, I remember knocking on doors and people
thought I was selling cookies, you know, and I'm like, no,
here's my pushcard. I'm running for elected office just because
of the mindset of my community. And it's not to
criticize them, but it's just what you have known about
who should serve an elected office, what they're supposed to
look like, what are the tackles, you know, the twenty
(05:34):
years of experience, the thirty years of experience, without the
question being what have you done within that twenty or
that thirty years. So when a young person comes to
your door, you know, you don't expect them to run
for elected office. So my point is, you know, I
could also have that entitled attitude of saying, you know,
I broke down a barrier because there's not I'm the
youngest Democrat stay elected official in Mississippi. But instead I'm
(05:58):
also focused on that next generation. How do we find
space for them to serve. But if we start to
look at it as a holistic mission of changing this
state without it being you know, I've been here for
so long and you know, and you should, you know,
pay homage to me. There's many ways that we can
(06:20):
pay homage. And it's not just you know, continuing to
support the person you know and elected office. Now there
are also some great stuff. But I think that we
have to create that space.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
So Mississippi is one of these states where it looks
like a deep red state, but when you look at
the potential of what it is, when you look at
the what I would say, the unregistered population or the
unengaged population, this should be a fifty to fifty state.
(06:56):
This should be a state to put it in and
where that should have African American senators plural. There should
be a state that has as a bastion of political
power for African Americans, and it hasn't been. What do
you see today, What have been some of the mistakes
(07:21):
of the past that you hope to fix just tactically.
I mean, look, there's this is bigger than just tactics.
But I just look at the last thirty years and think,
just better tactics would make this state a more competitive politically.
But I think those that feel underserved would feel as
if they had some political power.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I'll tell you. I remember the
twenty nineteen gluminatorial race with Jim Hood and Tay Reeves,
a race that was decided by forty five thousand votes.
And then four years later, we have a race for
Governor Patwey, Brandon Pressley and Tate Reeves that was decided
I think between twenty four thousand votes. You know, that's
(08:05):
a two to three point race. And I don't think
that the country and the folks who are in leadership
positions country why to understanding that Mississippi can be the
epicenter of changing the American South, of actually becoming not
only a purple state but a blue state one day.
I mean, we are seeing statistically based going in the
(08:26):
right direction because we are investing in candidates who are
meeting people where they are explaining to people in rural
areas who have to drive five to ten miles and
even further just to go to an emergency room or hospital,
why policies that they've been voting on are optuse to
their way of life, the quality of their way of life.
(08:46):
I think that what we have to start doing is
we really need to bring the alarm on the donor
base of national politics and all of the money that
we pour into these national races, and there seems to
not be that seems to not be an eye on
states like Mississippi because it's on the ground. Man, we
(09:09):
are a resilient party. It's the fact that we don't
have the tools and the resources that we need to
do what it is that we need to do.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
And a little bit of money if we want to
put this in our in terms of ROI, I think
the return on investment you take five if you have
five million dollars to spend, it's going to get lost
in Georgia. Five million dollars, No offense to Georgia. It
just is what it is. A very expensive state. Now
five million dollars in voter registration efforts in Mississippi in
(09:36):
an off year that could lead to three to five
new Democrats in the state legislature.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Absolutely, absolutely, and also just on the judicial front. I mean,
we just had a redistricting case that was decided by
a federal court to redraw our maps because of extreme
jerry mendering, which you know, of course found to violate
Section two of the voting Rights at So I think
we look look at we brush the surface and we say, well,
Mississippi has a supermajority Republican controlled legislature, they have a
(10:07):
Republican governor, all state wide offices are Republican. Well we're not,
you know, getting deeper down into understanding the reasons as
to why it's it looks like that when the citizens themselves,
the constituency, a lot of people have struggled, would whether
I go with the group think and go with with
with the sority of who looks like me and the
(10:29):
culture in which I've grown up, or do I go
with what makes realistic sense for my children, for my grandchildren.
I think we really can be the epicenter of that change.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I mean, let's just put it in little starker race terms,
is the bigger problem unengaged African American voters or moderate
white voters who can't who aren't ready to leave the
Republican Party Like you know, if you were to say
in the state wide race, what should be the priority?
Is it registering the less engaged and getting more engagement
(11:05):
and just because the numbers are there, or is it
better persuasion campaign for that? Because right now, you tell
me if I'm wrong, I think Brandon Presley got nineteen
to twenty percent of the white folk. Does that sound right?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
And I think you are.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, I think the numbers have got to be closer
to high twenties, you know, somewhere between twenty and thirty
two to win. So what do you see? And I
obviously maybe the answer is a little bit of both.
But if you were to put more effort into one
or the other, where would you put it?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, and you're right, it is both. I know that
that's a basic answer, but you really have to do
both at the same exact time. I'd say that Presley
has been focusing on his rule coalition, which is very
important for the Democratic Party to invest them, and that's
going into the rural areas. You know, when you look
at the maps on the presidential election night and they're
adding up all of the counties and it's just, you know,
(11:56):
one hundred votes here, a couple hundred votes here. But
in the grand scheme of things, that is how you're
able to be an epicenter of like Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, you know,
or Detroit, Michigan. So I think that what we should
do is is make sure that there are folks in
the party that feel included and feel inclusive to be
able to do what is their strong set, which may
(12:18):
be you know, breaking it down to the rule of voters,
but also doing the work of making sure that we
find ways of getting unengaged African Americans out to vote
at every election. I noticed in my community when I
was running for office, there are folks that are are
blue collar, white collar folks who don't vote. They don't
(12:40):
vote the process. They just I mean, I mean, what
do you go to do that's different, you know, And
that's why I decided to try to focus my first
two years in the legislature on actually bringing about visual change,
visual reality for people to say, oh, that's why it's
so important to elect people in this specific.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I mean an example of that is that what is something?
When you say visual change, I think like a mayor.
I would think like making sure to restreet light has
afe working light bulb, right, Like that would be a
visual change. What's something? Because it's a little harder from
a state legency in the when you're in the political minority.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, very hard, very hard. And so with ways and
means and appropriations, of course, you know, we do have
an ability of sending state dollars to our communities for
various projects. And it goes back to the discriminatory nature
of our legislature in a way in which it was
crafted in eighteen nineteen, meaning that Democratic majority districts or
(13:37):
African American majority districts don't usually proceed. They're just doing
state of appropriations. But I've been able to start the
first state sponsored solar surveillance camera program that is giving
a lot of my residents the ability to feel more
comfortable and safe in their communities. It's attached to the
County Sheriff's office and the real time command Crime Center
(13:59):
of the able to repay streets, repave roads because we
know that city and Jackson has had of course, invest
in a lot of other, you know, issues that we
have had. But if we can get all of our
elected officials to work together to try to help the
city and whatever it is, we're improving the quality of
(14:21):
life of residents. And that is also how you get
people to show back up to the polls. If they
can point to something in their communion and say, well,
you know what he said he was going to work
on this, and he did it. Then this is my
state representative matters, right.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
You know, let's talk about Jackson. I used to say
when I was sitting in the doing meet the press,
meet the present. Now, I spent a lot of time
on the Jackson water crisis. I thought this should be
more of a national story. I think when one of
America's fifty state capitals does not have reliable drinking water,
(14:58):
this should be this should be the focus of somebody
in federal government, the singular focus. And I found and
it hasn't mattered whether it was Republican administration or Democratic administration.
You get the lip service, but there doesn't seem to
be this what are we doing? Just figure out how
(15:19):
to fix this problem. Stop trying to figure out whose
fault it is, and I felt as if there was
a lot of effort being put in well a bad
contract that the mayor did, or a bad thing that
the government, and everybody was pointing fingers and nobody was
getting their clean drinking water. Give me an update on
the situation and how much of this is just caught
up in just old fashioned political you know, finger pointing.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, yeah, Well, we're of course under a Feroe receiver
shit now. And you know, we have a gentleman named
Ted Hitefen who has been brought to the city of
Jackson to try to revitalize the city's war system. There
have been, of course, those who satisfied. There have been
a lot of businesses in Jackson has threatened to leave
because of the situation that are back on their feet
(16:06):
with consistent, reliable drinking water and water that's just being
you know, sent to their businesses on a consistent basis.
But you know, we also still have our struggles. We
still have our struggles with the federal receivership understanding the
differences between the sections of the city and what some
(16:26):
areas of the City of Jackson has struggled with versus
what others have struggled with.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
You is it somebody with at least a knowledge of
Jackson in charge of the receivership or is it just
some outsider.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Well, the judge, I mean, we're talking about the federal
judge who does live and frequent in Jackson, So that
does give us a leg up. Somebody doesn't understand, right,
you know, the history Jackson, and of course it is
really his authority that is given to NFN. In relation
to how they actually revive the system, I will say
(16:57):
that there have been improvements made, but again we can't
get caught up. And I think you talked about how
people are caught up in where to blame the thing,
where to point the finger and who the place blame on.
But we also can't also figure out who to blame
in terms of where the contracts go. You know, we
kind of get into this conundrum sometimes when we do
have power, the power now goes to, well who else
(17:18):
do you get power to? Right? Like, where do I
have money? And I didn't want you to send the
money so that company. It should have went to this company.
And now we're losing sight on what it is that
we're supposed to be improving.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
The main thing should be the main thing, which is yeah,
clean drinking water, that's the main thing. Let's not take
our eye off of it.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
That's right. Yeah, And some people want that. They just
want effectiveness. They don't care how you do it. Just
don't break the law, do it the correct way, and
get it as consistent and reliable as possible.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
What are you attribute it to. You've lived in Jackson
your whole life, and so what it may mean is
this been sort of a norm you've understood. Yeah, this
is how it works sometimes. What you talk about growing
up with politics around the table, How did something like
this happen? And why is? Why is the state leadership
(18:15):
so laise fair about it?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah? Yeah, you know again, I can't say that there's
one person that you placed blamed to, but I think
that there's been a variety of factors. I think that
you can blame on flight people leaving Jackson, our tax
based decreasing, But I also think that you can blame
it on previous administrations and their lack of sounding the
(18:37):
alarm at the appropriate time. But I also think that
you can blame it on the states leadership and the
state not coming in and giving the city adequate resourcesests
of what it actually needs. But that also goes to
the breakdown between democratic administrations and Republican administrations. So growing
up at the table, you know, the stories that my
parents would tell me and my sister was in relation
(18:58):
to how Democrats and Republican work together. A lot of
the times, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Back in the eighties and nineties, they did, because Mississippi did,
by the way, regularly. Shoot, it was all Democrats until
you know, until in somewhere in the nineties that the
Republicans broke through. So it wasn't an unusual you know,
late eighties in the Senate and then in governor's races.
So you had this I think because both parties had
(19:25):
a shot at winning the governorship, the relationship to Jackson
was better for both parties.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Right, yeah, yeah. But but I will say that that
I have seen the state leadership because of the culture
and political culture of the city of Jackson within the
past eight years, say I'm going to hault any type
of assistance to the city, and we are now getting
away from that. We have new leadership. We have a
(19:53):
much more inclusive city government and that sees all areas
of Jackson as being important and included in the future
of jack And also though we had a new leadership
in the legislature which has started things like the Capital
Revitalization Committee focused on creating legislation and policy to help
the capital city. You cannot have a successful state without
(20:14):
a successful capital city. And Jackson is going through metic city.
So you know, it's almost like get out of your
you know, put your big pants on and just staying that, yes,
you are going to have to work with democratic leadership
in the city of Jackson. You know it's going to
help the state.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
This is a this is a virus that's going through
our political system, which is and you're seeing it a
lot more on the right, which is we're only going
to govern for our supporters, and if you didn't vote
for me, you're not going to get in your.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Like no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
It just means we've let you make the decisions. But
there's a spaceline assumption that you're going to keep services
where they're at or improve them, not decrease services because
they didn't give you political support. I mean, I got
the sense that Republicans and state government felt like there
was no political price to pay to punish Jackson and
(21:07):
that and I think twenty years ago that wasn't the case.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you,
and not listening to the people on the ground, the
people who've lived in Jackson for decades. Those are the
folks who you go to, you know, in order to
understand the dynamics of the city or what it is
that the city needs. What are they asking for. I
can tell you the countless amount of years that the
City of Jackson has asked for appropriations for our state
(21:32):
government and it's fallen on deaf ears. Now, I think
that there's blame that you can place on both parties,
But at the end of the day, there are people
behind these offices, these elected offices. They're folks who were struggling,
and so that's what I'm saying. The finger pointing at
some point has to stop because there are people who
need the support from their government. You know, we're not
(21:53):
exempt from pans state taxes because we're a democratic city.
So that's again why important for appropriations to these d
equably around the state of Mississippi, not just in areas
where you can go and toout you know, being a
proud conservative Republican or where you can say that you're
a strong Democrat.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Would you say Mississippi is culturally conservative across the board,
meaning the average Democratic district is just culturally more conservative
than the average Democratic district say in the northeast, or
is or is are we missing something here? How would
you describe the Democratic Party in Mississippi? Is it more
(22:37):
conservative than the national Party?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah? I would say socially conservative potentially yess, But again
you still have and what.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Does that mean? Is that just on abortion issues or
is that on other sort of cultural issues like same
sex marriage and things like that.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I think all of that, I would say when it
comes to abortion, I think a majority of us are
pro choice that are within Theocratic Party. But I do
think that there can be some disagreement. It may not
be as loud as others disagreement in regards to gay
marriage as well as other other social issues. But again,
what I think we have to continue to focus on
(23:15):
doing is staying unified as the party the super minority.
Attacking the super minority or ostracizing other folks in the
super minority because you don't agree on one specific issue
is not going to get you in the majority. It's
not going to move you there, you know. And one
thing I've noticed. I mean, I can count all of
(23:36):
the moderate Republicans even in the state of Mississippi, Chuck,
who told me and all of my colleagues, so, we'll
never support Donald Trump again after January sixth, We'll never
you know, you know, we we can't be loud about it, Justice,
but we're not going to go and vote for him
in the ballot box. To see the previous election and
the man has over seventy million votes, Well, what that
(23:58):
that's to me is, Yeah, there may be some folks
who disagree, but when it comes to the end of
the day, they're going to unify and align with their
party with the person who they believe is going to
do more good than the bad that they see. I
think that we need to start to adopt that more
in the Democratic Party in Mississippi. There are going to
be Democrats who are lifelong Democrats who may disagree on
(24:23):
one or two issues.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Look, Brandon Presley on the issue of abortion, I think
is in the minority of what you just said about
the Democratic Party Mississippi.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Right, that is correct, that is correct. But what you saw,
Chuck in that election, as you saw us unify at
the end, No, there was not large groups of Democrats
protesting saying how dare we support this guy who is
putting his hand on the Bible and has spent millions
of dollars on television and saying that he is pro life. No, no, no,
we understood the gravity of the moment. The gravity of
(24:54):
the moment is this current Republican state administration needs to go.
And the person that we have that is our most
powerful opponent to him is someone who we need to
stand behind now when it comes to governing. Yeah, of
course we'll get into the nice and the weis then
because now we have someone who's more responsive in the
governor's office. So that's again what we have to focus
(25:16):
on to get out of this super minority, to not
ostracize each other, but to find ways of unifying, to
get to the mango.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
As an observer of national politics and of what the Democrats,
how the Democrats are doing, I'm sure you see the
same you're seeing what we see, which is, you know
how unpopular the party's brand is. Right now, what's your
diagnosis for that and what's your cure?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah? Well, one, when it comes to young people, I
think we need to listen to understand young people and
not listen to respond. There needs to be I think
we can be a little bit more inclusive to the
ideas that young people bring about, and the idea is
a Southern Democrats bring about to the national party and
(26:04):
the national platform. But you know, again, I think that
we do need a new generation of leadership in the party,
and I think that we do need to be captivated
as a party. I remember in two thousand and eight,
you know, the way that our community felt when we
had a new leader, someone who kind of took the
party by storm, and it got everybody excited and involved
(26:25):
about wanting to vote again, wanted to be involved again.
I think that we need that in the Democratic Party.
You know, a little caffeine in the system. I felt
a lot of that of electricity at the DNC when
Vice President Kamala Harris was our nominee. But how do
we keep that electricity going and how do we revelop
that electricity again in twenty twenty eight, I think is
(26:48):
what's most important. Listen, this is the party for working
class people. This is not the party of billionaires. There
are more working class people than billionaires in the United States.
So when we start to surgically pick apart the platform.
I don't necessarily think that there's anything wrong with with
with what we stand for. I think it's who do
we see. Who are we showing in America that their
(27:11):
voices matter, that their priorities. Similar to what I said
about Mississippi, sometimes I don't feel like the National brand
sees Mississippi or seize the Democrats in Mississippi.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
No, they don't know the way that they should.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
And I will give credit to d NC vice sheer
Malcolm kin Yata because he traveled to Mississippi, and while
I didn't get a chance to meet him, he did
the work that should have been done decades ago here,
you know, and not only just seeing us but giving
us those resources because we need money, we need funds,
and we need to you know, these are six electoral
(27:45):
votes down here, you know, and there are votes that
we can pick up one day if we get the
right investment.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Well, and do you start looking at the census of
twenty thirty and where you know the blue wall of
the Midwest won't be enough for Electorala to need another state,
and then you're gonna have to narrowly hope you win Georgia,
North Carolina, or do you need some padding? And when
you start looking at the board, you know, I look
at I do I look at Mississippi. Is you know
(28:12):
this is this is a lighter red state than its repute.
I always say my favorite way is it ain't Idaho. Okay.
Idaho is dark red and that is what it is, right,
just like Massachusetts is dark blue. Okay, those you know
that you're going to have that on both sides of
the aisle. Mississippi ain't Idaho, but the National Party treats
it like Idaho.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, and envision the freak out that will happen on
the other side. You know when when that state does
turn purple or it does.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
You saw it in Georgia. I mean, look what it
did to the state party. Republican Party are still divided
over this. They're still fighting that. I can't believe they
blew it right and they're still seeing it. They still
don't quite think it was it was a one offer,
it was this or was that, but it did it
scrambled them. I mean, you know, it's it's like any
if you really want to do game theory, it's a
(29:00):
version of game theory. You radially your opponent by suddenly
taking a territory that they never thought they had.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
To protect, right and now kick another domino right and
allow Mississippi to to do the unthinkable because what it
will do.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
But no, no, no, you say it, because I think
you're going to say it. I was just about to
prompt you.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
What I'm saying is that now where is their attention focused.
The attention is now focused in the South. Wait a minute.
This has been saved territory for as long as we've
known that, and now you've taken the attention to focus
the resources, the money off of the Wisconsins, off of
the Michigan's, off of the swing states.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
This is exactly it what Iowa being in the center
of the political debate for presidential races allowed the ethanol
industry to be to essentially punch above its weight, and
that benefited financially the state of Iowa. If Mississippi is
in play, you suddenly will get real investment in the state. Attention.
National politicians will make prom says that they have to
(30:00):
keep right when you're considered already in one column or
the other, like the voters benefit being I always say this,
the most valuable voters in America are swing voters because
politicians obsessively need you. And if you are seen as
hard to get, not easy to get, it's amazing what
you're going to the largest that will come your state's wife.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Absolutely and and and I can feel it when you know.
I served as a surrogate for Kamala Harrison's campaign, and
I went to North Carolina on the campus of the
University of North Carolina, Charlotte. And you could see it
in the eyes as well as the conversations I had
with young college voters. They knew how much their vote mattered.
(30:46):
It was like, if you can get me, if you
can convince me to write down, not being on the
side of that, you've done a number. You know, your
flight here was worth it. And I noticed when I
came back home in Mississippi the difference and how people
saw their vote on the presidential level. You know a
lot of Democrats, Yeah, we're going to go and exercise
(31:07):
our right, but we don't see it as you know,
as so much of importance to the political candidates and
their machines themselves. And I agree with you when you
talked about investment. You know, while we're talking about the
things that come along with it. You know that we
may not be paying attention to we're paying attentions to
who wins so who loses this. But there's so much
(31:28):
more that comes with your state turning to purple, with
the becoming a suite. And like you said, folks have
to make promises that they have to keep because they
have to come back to you.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
I got to land this plane because I always a
promise on these youtubes to make it a hard thirty.
But I promise you you'll be able to find Republicans
in Mississippi and some day that you can lead the
charge to say, hey, let's make Mississippi an early presidential
primary state because both parties will benefit. This is one
(32:01):
of those areas both parties have benefit in Iowa, both
parties benefit in New Hampshire, both parties benefit in Nevada,
both parties benefit in South Carolina. Stay like Mississippi, that
could use a little bit of just It's like hosting
a big event. You get to host a big event
and you get all sorts of money pouring into your economy.
If you're hosting the NCAA Regionals in Jackson or something
(32:23):
like that, it's no different except and then politicians might
learn a thing or two about what's going on in
Mississippi and they may change things.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
That's all right, and now we can have the double
A in Mississippi because we've changed that divisive flat with
conservative emblem. Unfortunately, people only pay attention to money and
opportunity to eliminate the divisive you know, culture that we've
had in Mississippi for quite some time. So I think
you bring out a really good point. Shok, there's so
much more to you know, put us in the right
(32:52):
direction and to really have meaningful progress in Mississippi.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
You know, I just find that every time I get
to know Mississippi leaders, I think there's so many good leaders.
This it's it. It's just more people in the state
need to believe in their leaders because it does feel
as if just a little bit of effort would allow
Mississippi to punch, punch, punch higher on the list here.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yep, absolutely right, and we have the power now, I
mean up Hints County, one of the most populous counties,
could have won that gubernatorial seat. We had the votes,
just that county, just the county that I'm in right now,
week on that. So, so that is the message to
the donor class, that is the advanssage to those that
(33:37):
have the resources as of how we can change this
state if we are able to be fully invested in. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
No, I'm convinced. It's a you know, I look at
sometimes I look at states in the electoral map the
way I look at you know, rising college football powers.
Mississippi could be a power here. They just need a
little investment. So this is all right, let me ask
before I let get you out of here on this
Ole Miss Orssissippi.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
State, University of Mississippi. Man. I got my law degree there,
my father got his law degree there, and I'm a
big fan of Ole Miss football. I think we're going
to do amazing things. We're going to just erase last year.
We're not going to talk about it, and we're gonna
(34:24):
do some amazing things this year.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
I will say this, Lane Keffen is a press conference
I always want to pay attention to because you never
know what he's gonna say.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
That's right, that's right. You never know you never know
who he's going to recruit either.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
It's it's very true. It's very true. You didn't say
Southern mess I thought you might throw that in there
as my curveball or Jackson State. I was prepared for
either one of them, but ultimately it's you know, or
Mississippi State. Right there, there's sort of the stepchild. I
feel like sometimes they can be.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
They can be my mom went to a sudden miss
But I am always a Jackon. I grew up going
to Jackson State football games. So if you live in
Jackson and you're not a Jackson State fan, have.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
You become a Colorado Buffalo's fan by sort of proxy now?
Or are you bitter about about Dion leaving.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
I was not one of the ones to become a
Colorado Colorado fan. I will say after the coach damn Jackson.
Let's just say that. Maybe I'm in the minority. But
in a way which was rolled out, I am a
Jackson State fan, uh and been a Jackson State fan
(35:32):
when we've had coaches like Coach Comogy, the coaches where
I don't even want to say their names, but you know,
I stay true to the universities that I represent.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
I love it. Well, it would have it would have
been just as fun to see Shador and Travis Hunter
spend three years staying in Jackson State.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Oh yeah, oh, yeah, we love we enjoyed them, We
enjoyed them.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Uh, just great to get to know you appreciate the
time check.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
This is amazing. Thank you, ma'am, M
And joining me now is Justice Gibbs. He is the
legislature down in Mississippi, born and raised, a lifelong resident
of Jackson, Mississippi, and part of our continuing series to
elevate new voices, and Justice Gibbs joins me now, Justice,
nice to me.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Too great to be here, man, great to be here,
and so glad that you're allowing Mississippi to let his
voice be heard. Well.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Good look. One of my favorite bosses ever is a
man named Mandy Lack, and he's been the guy who
up with Mississippi today. I think he lives in Jackson
these days, so you may have seen him or come
across him every now and then. And he has an
interesting story of what got his ancestors to Mississippi. It's
an unusual one. Jewish immigrants who end up making clothes
(00:54):
for the Confederacy. They didn't know any of They were
just immigrants and it was a job. They had no idea,
you know, it was one of the things. And it's something.
The more he learned about that, it just made him
want to invest more and spend more time there. So,
but Justice, give me your origin story, give us the
how did you get into politics? Why what what was
the motivation? What was the everybody was this one reason,
(01:15):
like I'm getting in I want to solve this problem,
I want to do this. What was that for you?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah? It was kind of most how fascinated for me.
I first say that I grew up in a family
of public servants. My father, I was a circuit judge
when I was born. My mother served in the legislature
for about six years prior to running for a circuit
judge herself. So, you know, a lot of the kitchen
table conversations that we had always sort of you know,
(01:40):
revolved around politics or policy or what was going on
in our city and our state and in our country. Uh.
And you know, growing up, you know, going to our
high school, serving in the student councils, something that was
a really natural knack for me. But when I came
home at the graduating from Howard University, attending law school,
(02:02):
I noticed something very interesting, which was, you know, this
sort of criticism that is directed to young people about
you know, not exercising their rights to vote, not you know,
helping either political party, you know, with their margins. And
what I really recognize is that there is just such
an empty void with young leadership on all levels, city, county, state,
(02:25):
and I want it to be a part of changing that. So,
at age twenty seven, decided to run for an open
seat in my area and that's really how I got involved.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
You know, it's interesting. I feel like there's quite a
few in people in your generation in Mississippi who've decided
to quote not wait their turn right and try to
beat go challenge the establishment a little bit, particularly on
the Democratic side, because I think there's been some what
have you guys been doing right? You know, we're still
in the same place, you know, haven't made the progress
(02:58):
that I think people they should be made. There was
a new mayor of Jackson not that long ago and
sort of the same mindset. So I do feel as
if whether you're whether we call you older gen Z
or younger millennial, where do you feel like you fall
in that?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
A younger millennial? But there's also a great bucket of
young gen Z folks who are interested in politics in
Mississippi as well. It's just that we need to find
space for them to serve in elected office. I think
that there is an umptem amount of leadership development courses
(03:36):
and leadership cohorts you know. I mean there's so many
that you can't even name them. But you know, once
they are prepared, we shouldn't send them to the next cohort. Weh'
just the elected office. We should put them in a
position of making these decisions that are going to be
solidified when we are raising our families. You know, and
I agree with you. I think that that it is,
you know, we can't treat our elected offices as property.
(03:58):
You know, I think that it's okay to pass the
baton or to say that, you know, your expertise can
be used outside of the electric faction.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So, you know, it's been interesting, you know, particularly with
you know, one of these these generational arguments have actually
been sometimes sharpest among African American communities where you've had
somebody who was a long time hero maybe stay in
office a little bit too long because you know, they
broke the barrier right they got there, and there is
so I under I weirdly understand the sense of entitlement. Hey,
(04:30):
I broke down this barrier. You know, I made this happen.
The reason this is possible is because of what I did.
What do you say to that older generation that feels
as if Hey, wait a minute. I did all this
hard work I took, you know, I took literal beatings
in order to break through these barriers. But some of
(04:50):
them aren't ready to pass the baton.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
What do you say to that, Well, the first part
of your inquiry was the word I. You know, I
did this, I did that, I took the So if
I did this, then I'm entitled to this. When it's
never really supposed to be about the eye. It's supposed
to be about the community. It's supposed to be about
the progress. And if it's about the eye, well I
also did that. I mean, as a young person at
(05:13):
age twenty seven, I remember knocking on doors and people
thought I was selling cookies, you know, and I'm like, no,
here's my pushcard. I'm running for elected office just because
of the mindset of my community. And it's not to
criticize them, but it's just what you have known about
who should serve an elected office, what they're supposed to
look like, what are the tackles, you know, the twenty
(05:34):
years of experience, the thirty years of experience, without the
question being what have you done within that twenty or
that thirty years. So when a young person comes to
your door, you know, you don't expect them to run
for elected office. So my point is, you know, I
could also have that entitled attitude of saying, you know,
I broke down a barrier because there's not I'm the
youngest Democrat stay elected official in Mississippi. But instead I'm
(05:58):
also focused on that next generation. How do we find
space for them to serve. But if we start to
look at it as a holistic mission of changing this
state without it being you know, I've been here for
so long and you know, and you should, you know,
pay homage to me. There's many ways that we can
(06:20):
pay homage. And it's not just you know, continuing to
support the person you know and elected office. Now there
are also some great stuff. But I think that we
have to create that space.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
So Mississippi is one of these states where it looks
like a deep red state, but when you look at
the potential of what it is, when you look at
the what I would say, the unregistered population or the
unengaged population, this should be a fifty to fifty state.
(06:56):
This should be a state to put it in and
where that should have African American senators plural. There should
be a state that has as a bastion of political
power for African Americans, and it hasn't been. What do
you see today, What have been some of the mistakes
(07:21):
of the past that you hope to fix just tactically.
I mean, look, there's this is bigger than just tactics.
But I just look at the last thirty years and think,
just better tactics would make this state a more competitive politically.
But I think those that feel underserved would feel as
if they had some political power.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I'll tell you. I remember the
twenty nineteen gluminatorial race with Jim Hood and Tay Reeves,
a race that was decided by forty five thousand votes.
And then four years later, we have a race for
Governor Patwey, Brandon Pressley and Tate Reeves that was decided
I think between twenty four thousand votes. You know, that's
(08:05):
a two to three point race. And I don't think
that the country and the folks who are in leadership
positions country why to understanding that Mississippi can be the
epicenter of changing the American South, of actually becoming not
only a purple state but a blue state one day.
I mean, we are seeing statistically based going in the
(08:26):
right direction because we are investing in candidates who are
meeting people where they are explaining to people in rural
areas who have to drive five to ten miles and
even further just to go to an emergency room or hospital,
why policies that they've been voting on are optuse to
their way of life, the quality of their way of life.
(08:46):
I think that what we have to start doing is
we really need to bring the alarm on the donor
base of national politics and all of the money that
we pour into these national races, and there seems to
not be that seems to not be an eye on
states like Mississippi because it's on the ground. Man, we
(09:09):
are a resilient party. It's the fact that we don't
have the tools and the resources that we need to
do what it is that we need to do.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
And a little bit of money if we want to
put this in our in terms of ROI, I think
the return on investment you take five if you have
five million dollars to spend, it's going to get lost
in Georgia. Five million dollars, No offense to Georgia. It
just is what it is. A very expensive state. Now
five million dollars in voter registration efforts in Mississippi in
(09:36):
an off year that could lead to three to five
new Democrats in the state legislature.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Absolutely, absolutely, and also just on the judicial front. I mean,
we just had a redistricting case that was decided by
a federal court to redraw our maps because of extreme
jerry mendering, which you know, of course found to violate
Section two of the voting Rights at So I think
we look look at we brush the surface and we say, well,
Mississippi has a supermajority Republican controlled legislature, they have a
(10:07):
Republican governor, all state wide offices are Republican. Well we're not,
you know, getting deeper down into understanding the reasons as
to why it's it looks like that when the citizens themselves,
the constituency, a lot of people have struggled, would whether
I go with the group think and go with with
with the sority of who looks like me and the
(10:29):
culture in which I've grown up, or do I go
with what makes realistic sense for my children, for my grandchildren.
I think we really can be the epicenter of that change.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I mean, let's just put it in little starker race terms,
is the bigger problem unengaged African American voters or moderate
white voters who can't who aren't ready to leave the
Republican Party Like you know, if you were to say
in the state wide race, what should be the priority?
Is it registering the less engaged and getting more engagement
(11:05):
and just because the numbers are there, or is it
better persuasion campaign for that? Because right now, you tell
me if I'm wrong, I think Brandon Presley got nineteen
to twenty percent of the white folk. Does that sound right?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
And I think you are.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, I think the numbers have got to be closer
to high twenties, you know, somewhere between twenty and thirty
two to win. So what do you see? And I
obviously maybe the answer is a little bit of both.
But if you were to put more effort into one
or the other, where would you put it?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, and you're right, it is both. I know that
that's a basic answer, but you really have to do
both at the same exact time. I'd say that Presley
has been focusing on his rule coalition, which is very
important for the Democratic Party to invest them, and that's
going into the rural areas. You know, when you look
at the maps on the presidential election night and they're
adding up all of the counties and it's just, you know,
(11:56):
one hundred votes here, a couple hundred votes here. But
in the grand scheme of things, that is how you're
able to be an epicenter of like Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, you know,
or Detroit, Michigan. So I think that what we should
do is is make sure that there are folks in
the party that feel included and feel inclusive to be
able to do what is their strong set, which may
(12:18):
be you know, breaking it down to the rule of voters,
but also doing the work of making sure that we
find ways of getting unengaged African Americans out to vote
at every election. I noticed in my community when I
was running for office, there are folks that are are
blue collar, white collar folks who don't vote. They don't
(12:40):
vote the process. They just I mean, I mean, what
do you go to do that's different, you know, And
that's why I decided to try to focus my first
two years in the legislature on actually bringing about visual change,
visual reality for people to say, oh, that's why it's
so important to elect people in this specific.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I mean an example of that is that what is something?
When you say visual change, I think like a mayor.
I would think like making sure to restreet light has
afe working light bulb, right, Like that would be a
visual change. What's something? Because it's a little harder from
a state legency in the when you're in the political minority.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, very hard, very hard. And so with ways and
means and appropriations, of course, you know, we do have
an ability of sending state dollars to our communities for
various projects. And it goes back to the discriminatory nature
of our legislature in a way in which it was
crafted in eighteen nineteen, meaning that Democratic majority districts or
(13:37):
African American majority districts don't usually proceed. They're just doing
state of appropriations. But I've been able to start the
first state sponsored solar surveillance camera program that is giving
a lot of my residents the ability to feel more
comfortable and safe in their communities. It's attached to the
County Sheriff's office and the real time command Crime Center
(13:59):
of the able to repay streets, repave roads because we
know that city and Jackson has had of course, invest
in a lot of other, you know, issues that we
have had. But if we can get all of our
elected officials to work together to try to help the
city and whatever it is, we're improving the quality of
(14:21):
life of residents. And that is also how you get
people to show back up to the polls. If they
can point to something in their communion and say, well,
you know what he said he was going to work
on this, and he did it. Then this is my
state representative matters, right.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
You know, let's talk about Jackson. I used to say
when I was sitting in the doing meet the press,
meet the present. Now, I spent a lot of time
on the Jackson water crisis. I thought this should be
more of a national story. I think when one of
America's fifty state capitals does not have reliable drinking water,
(14:58):
this should be this should be the focus of somebody
in federal government, the singular focus. And I found and
it hasn't mattered whether it was Republican administration or Democratic administration.
You get the lip service, but there doesn't seem to
be this what are we doing? Just figure out how
(15:19):
to fix this problem. Stop trying to figure out whose
fault it is, and I felt as if there was
a lot of effort being put in well a bad
contract that the mayor did, or a bad thing that
the government, and everybody was pointing fingers and nobody was
getting their clean drinking water. Give me an update on
the situation and how much of this is just caught
up in just old fashioned political you know, finger pointing.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, yeah, Well, we're of course under a Feroe receiver
shit now. And you know, we have a gentleman named
Ted Hitefen who has been brought to the city of
Jackson to try to revitalize the city's war system. There
have been, of course, those who satisfied. There have been
a lot of businesses in Jackson has threatened to leave
because of the situation that are back on their feet
(16:06):
with consistent, reliable drinking water and water that's just being
you know, sent to their businesses on a consistent basis.
But you know, we also still have our struggles. We
still have our struggles with the federal receivership understanding the
differences between the sections of the city and what some
(16:26):
areas of the City of Jackson has struggled with versus
what others have struggled with.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
You is it somebody with at least a knowledge of
Jackson in charge of the receivership or is it just
some outsider.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Well, the judge, I mean, we're talking about the federal
judge who does live and frequent in Jackson, So that
does give us a leg up. Somebody doesn't understand, right,
you know, the history Jackson, and of course it is
really his authority that is given to NFN. In relation
to how they actually revive the system, I will say
(16:57):
that there have been improvements made, but again we can't
get caught up. And I think you talked about how
people are caught up in where to blame the thing,
where to point the finger and who the place blame on.
But we also can't also figure out who to blame
in terms of where the contracts go. You know, we
kind of get into this conundrum sometimes when we do
have power, the power now goes to, well who else
(17:18):
do you get power to? Right? Like, where do I
have money? And I didn't want you to send the
money so that company. It should have went to this company.
And now we're losing sight on what it is that
we're supposed to be improving.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
The main thing should be the main thing, which is yeah,
clean drinking water, that's the main thing. Let's not take
our eye off of it.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
That's right. Yeah, And some people want that. They just
want effectiveness. They don't care how you do it. Just
don't break the law, do it the correct way, and
get it as consistent and reliable as possible.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
What are you attribute it to. You've lived in Jackson
your whole life, and so what it may mean is
this been sort of a norm you've understood. Yeah, this
is how it works sometimes. What you talk about growing
up with politics around the table, How did something like
this happen? And why is? Why is the state leadership
(18:15):
so laise fair about it?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah? Yeah, you know again, I can't say that there's
one person that you placed blamed to, but I think
that there's been a variety of factors. I think that
you can blame on flight people leaving Jackson, our tax
based decreasing, But I also think that you can blame
it on previous administrations and their lack of sounding the
(18:37):
alarm at the appropriate time. But I also think that
you can blame it on the states leadership and the
state not coming in and giving the city adequate resourcesests
of what it actually needs. But that also goes to
the breakdown between democratic administrations and Republican administrations. So growing
up at the table, you know, the stories that my
parents would tell me and my sister was in relation
(18:58):
to how Democrats and Republican work together. A lot of
the times, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Back in the eighties and nineties, they did, because Mississippi did,
by the way, regularly. Shoot, it was all Democrats until
you know, until in somewhere in the nineties that the
Republicans broke through. So it wasn't an unusual you know,
late eighties in the Senate and then in governor's races.
So you had this I think because both parties had
(19:25):
a shot at winning the governorship, the relationship to Jackson
was better for both parties.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Right, yeah, yeah. But but I will say that that
I have seen the state leadership because of the culture
and political culture of the city of Jackson within the
past eight years, say I'm going to hault any type
of assistance to the city, and we are now getting
away from that. We have new leadership. We have a
(19:53):
much more inclusive city government and that sees all areas
of Jackson as being important and included in the future
of jack And also though we had a new leadership
in the legislature which has started things like the Capital
Revitalization Committee focused on creating legislation and policy to help
the capital city. You cannot have a successful state without
(20:14):
a successful capital city. And Jackson is going through metic city.
So you know, it's almost like get out of your
you know, put your big pants on and just staying that, yes,
you are going to have to work with democratic leadership
in the city of Jackson. You know it's going to
help the state.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
This is a this is a virus that's going through
our political system, which is and you're seeing it a
lot more on the right, which is we're only going
to govern for our supporters, and if you didn't vote
for me, you're not going to get in your.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Like no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
It just means we've let you make the decisions. But
there's a spaceline assumption that you're going to keep services
where they're at or improve them, not decrease services because
they didn't give you political support. I mean, I got
the sense that Republicans and state government felt like there
was no political price to pay to punish Jackson and
(21:07):
that and I think twenty years ago that wasn't the case.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you,
and not listening to the people on the ground, the
people who've lived in Jackson for decades. Those are the
folks who you go to, you know, in order to
understand the dynamics of the city or what it is
that the city needs. What are they asking for. I
can tell you the countless amount of years that the
City of Jackson has asked for appropriations for our state
(21:32):
government and it's fallen on deaf ears. Now, I think
that there's blame that you can place on both parties,
But at the end of the day, there are people
behind these offices, these elected offices. They're folks who were struggling,
and so that's what I'm saying. The finger pointing at
some point has to stop because there are people who
need the support from their government. You know, we're not
(21:53):
exempt from pans state taxes because we're a democratic city.
So that's again why important for appropriations to these d
equably around the state of Mississippi, not just in areas
where you can go and toout you know, being a
proud conservative Republican or where you can say that you're
a strong Democrat.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Would you say Mississippi is culturally conservative across the board,
meaning the average Democratic district is just culturally more conservative
than the average Democratic district say in the northeast, or
is or is are we missing something here? How would
you describe the Democratic Party in Mississippi? Is it more
(22:37):
conservative than the national Party?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah? I would say socially conservative potentially yess, But again
you still have and what.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Does that mean? Is that just on abortion issues or
is that on other sort of cultural issues like same
sex marriage and things like that.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I think all of that, I would say when it
comes to abortion, I think a majority of us are
pro choice that are within Theocratic Party. But I do
think that there can be some disagreement. It may not
be as loud as others disagreement in regards to gay
marriage as well as other other social issues. But again,
what I think we have to continue to focus on
(23:15):
doing is staying unified as the party the super minority.
Attacking the super minority or ostracizing other folks in the
super minority because you don't agree on one specific issue
is not going to get you in the majority. It's
not going to move you there, you know. And one
thing I've noticed. I mean, I can count all of
(23:36):
the moderate Republicans even in the state of Mississippi, Chuck,
who told me and all of my colleagues, so, we'll
never support Donald Trump again after January sixth, We'll never
you know, you know, we we can't be loud about it, Justice,
but we're not going to go and vote for him
in the ballot box. To see the previous election and
the man has over seventy million votes, Well, what that
(23:58):
that's to me is, Yeah, there may be some folks
who disagree, but when it comes to the end of
the day, they're going to unify and align with their
party with the person who they believe is going to
do more good than the bad that they see. I
think that we need to start to adopt that more
in the Democratic Party in Mississippi. There are going to
be Democrats who are lifelong Democrats who may disagree on
(24:23):
one or two issues.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Look, Brandon Presley on the issue of abortion, I think
is in the minority of what you just said about
the Democratic Party Mississippi.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Right, that is correct, that is correct. But what you saw,
Chuck in that election, as you saw us unify at
the end, No, there was not large groups of Democrats
protesting saying how dare we support this guy who is
putting his hand on the Bible and has spent millions
of dollars on television and saying that he is pro life. No, no, no,
we understood the gravity of the moment. The gravity of
(24:54):
the moment is this current Republican state administration needs to go.
And the person that we have that is our most
powerful opponent to him is someone who we need to
stand behind now when it comes to governing. Yeah, of
course we'll get into the nice and the weis then
because now we have someone who's more responsive in the
governor's office. So that's again what we have to focus
(25:16):
on to get out of this super minority, to not
ostracize each other, but to find ways of unifying, to
get to the mango.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
As an observer of national politics and of what the Democrats,
how the Democrats are doing, I'm sure you see the
same you're seeing what we see, which is, you know
how unpopular the party's brand is. Right now, what's your
diagnosis for that and what's your cure?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah? Well, one, when it comes to young people, I
think we need to listen to understand young people and
not listen to respond. There needs to be I think
we can be a little bit more inclusive to the
ideas that young people bring about, and the idea is
a Southern Democrats bring about to the national party and
(26:04):
the national platform. But you know, again, I think that
we do need a new generation of leadership in the party,
and I think that we do need to be captivated
as a party. I remember in two thousand and eight,
you know, the way that our community felt when we
had a new leader, someone who kind of took the
party by storm, and it got everybody excited and involved
(26:25):
about wanting to vote again, wanted to be involved again.
I think that we need that in the Democratic Party.
You know, a little caffeine in the system. I felt
a lot of that of electricity at the DNC when
Vice President Kamala Harris was our nominee. But how do
we keep that electricity going and how do we revelop
that electricity again in twenty twenty eight, I think is
(26:48):
what's most important. Listen, this is the party for working
class people. This is not the party of billionaires. There
are more working class people than billionaires in the United States.
So when we start to surgically pick apart the platform.
I don't necessarily think that there's anything wrong with with
with what we stand for. I think it's who do
we see. Who are we showing in America that their
(27:11):
voices matter, that their priorities. Similar to what I said
about Mississippi, sometimes I don't feel like the National brand
sees Mississippi or seize the Democrats in Mississippi.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
No, they don't know the way that they should.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
And I will give credit to d NC vice sheer
Malcolm kin Yata because he traveled to Mississippi, and while
I didn't get a chance to meet him, he did
the work that should have been done decades ago here,
you know, and not only just seeing us but giving
us those resources because we need money, we need funds,
and we need to you know, these are six electoral
(27:45):
votes down here, you know, and there are votes that
we can pick up one day if we get the
right investment.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Well, and do you start looking at the census of
twenty thirty and where you know the blue wall of
the Midwest won't be enough for Electorala to need another state,
and then you're gonna have to narrowly hope you win Georgia,
North Carolina, or do you need some padding? And when
you start looking at the board, you know, I look
at I do I look at Mississippi. Is you know
(28:12):
this is this is a lighter red state than its repute.
I always say my favorite way is it ain't Idaho. Okay.
Idaho is dark red and that is what it is, right,
just like Massachusetts is dark blue. Okay, those you know
that you're going to have that on both sides of
the aisle. Mississippi ain't Idaho, but the National Party treats
it like Idaho.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, and envision the freak out that will happen on
the other side. You know when when that state does
turn purple or it does.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
You saw it in Georgia. I mean, look what it
did to the state party. Republican Party are still divided
over this. They're still fighting that. I can't believe they
blew it right and they're still seeing it. They still
don't quite think it was it was a one offer,
it was this or was that, but it did it
scrambled them. I mean, you know, it's it's like any
if you really want to do game theory, it's a
(29:00):
version of game theory. You radially your opponent by suddenly
taking a territory that they never thought they had.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
To protect, right and now kick another domino right and
allow Mississippi to to do the unthinkable because what it
will do.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
But no, no, no, you say it, because I think
you're going to say it. I was just about to
prompt you.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
What I'm saying is that now where is their attention focused.
The attention is now focused in the South. Wait a minute.
This has been saved territory for as long as we've
known that, and now you've taken the attention to focus
the resources, the money off of the Wisconsins, off of
the Michigan's, off of the swing states.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
This is exactly it what Iowa being in the center
of the political debate for presidential races allowed the ethanol
industry to be to essentially punch above its weight, and
that benefited financially the state of Iowa. If Mississippi is
in play, you suddenly will get real investment in the state. Attention.
National politicians will make prom says that they have to
(30:00):
keep right when you're considered already in one column or
the other, like the voters benefit being I always say this,
the most valuable voters in America are swing voters because
politicians obsessively need you. And if you are seen as
hard to get, not easy to get, it's amazing what
you're going to the largest that will come your state's wife.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Absolutely and and and I can feel it when you know.
I served as a surrogate for Kamala Harrison's campaign, and
I went to North Carolina on the campus of the
University of North Carolina, Charlotte. And you could see it
in the eyes as well as the conversations I had
with young college voters. They knew how much their vote mattered.
(30:46):
It was like, if you can get me, if you
can convince me to write down, not being on the
side of that, you've done a number. You know, your
flight here was worth it. And I noticed when I
came back home in Mississippi the difference and how people
saw their vote on the presidential level. You know a
lot of Democrats, Yeah, we're going to go and exercise
(31:07):
our right, but we don't see it as you know,
as so much of importance to the political candidates and
their machines themselves. And I agree with you when you
talked about investment. You know, while we're talking about the
things that come along with it. You know that we
may not be paying attention to we're paying attentions to
who wins so who loses this. But there's so much
(31:28):
more that comes with your state turning to purple, with
the becoming a suite. And like you said, folks have
to make promises that they have to keep because they
have to come back to you.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
I got to land this plane because I always a
promise on these youtubes to make it a hard thirty.
But I promise you you'll be able to find Republicans
in Mississippi and some day that you can lead the
charge to say, hey, let's make Mississippi an early presidential
primary state because both parties will benefit. This is one
(32:01):
of those areas both parties have benefit in Iowa, both
parties benefit in New Hampshire, both parties benefit in Nevada,
both parties benefit in South Carolina. Stay like Mississippi, that
could use a little bit of just It's like hosting
a big event. You get to host a big event
and you get all sorts of money pouring into your economy.
If you're hosting the NCAA Regionals in Jackson or something
(32:23):
like that, it's no different except and then politicians might
learn a thing or two about what's going on in
Mississippi and they may change things.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
That's all right, and now we can have the double
A in Mississippi because we've changed that divisive flat with
conservative emblem. Unfortunately, people only pay attention to money and
opportunity to eliminate the divisive you know, culture that we've
had in Mississippi for quite some time. So I think
you bring out a really good point. Shok, there's so
much more to you know, put us in the right
(32:52):
direction and to really have meaningful progress in Mississippi.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
You know, I just find that every time I get
to know Mississippi leaders, I think there's so many good leaders.
This it's it. It's just more people in the state
need to believe in their leaders because it does feel
as if just a little bit of effort would allow
Mississippi to punch, punch, punch higher on the list here.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yep, absolutely right, and we have the power now, I
mean up Hints County, one of the most populous counties,
could have won that gubernatorial seat. We had the votes,
just that county, just the county that I'm in right now,
week on that. So, so that is the message to
the donor class, that is the advanssage to those that
(33:37):
have the resources as of how we can change this
state if we are able to be fully invested in. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
No, I'm convinced. It's a you know, I look at
sometimes I look at states in the electoral map the
way I look at you know, rising college football powers.
Mississippi could be a power here. They just need a
little investment. So this is all right, let me ask
before I let get you out of here on this
Ole Miss Orssissippi.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
State, University of Mississippi. Man. I got my law degree there,
my father got his law degree there, and I'm a
big fan of Ole Miss football. I think we're going
to do amazing things. We're going to just erase last year.
We're not going to talk about it, and we're gonna
(34:24):
do some amazing things this year.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
I will say this, Lane Keffen is a press conference
I always want to pay attention to because you never
know what he's gonna say.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
That's right, that's right. You never know you never know
who he's going to recruit either.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
It's it's very true. It's very true. You didn't say
Southern mess I thought you might throw that in there
as my curveball or Jackson State. I was prepared for
either one of them, but ultimately it's you know, or
Mississippi State. Right there, there's sort of the stepchild. I
feel like sometimes they can be.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
They can be my mom went to a sudden miss
But I am always a Jackon. I grew up going
to Jackson State football games. So if you live in
Jackson and you're not a Jackson State fan, have.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
You become a Colorado Buffalo's fan by sort of proxy now?
Or are you bitter about about Dion leaving.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
I was not one of the ones to become a
Colorado Colorado fan. I will say after the coach damn Jackson.
Let's just say that. Maybe I'm in the minority. But
in a way which was rolled out, I am a
Jackson State fan, uh and been a Jackson State fan
(35:32):
when we've had coaches like Coach Comogy, the coaches where
I don't even want to say their names, but you know,
I stay true to the universities that I represent.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
I love it. Well, it would have it would have
been just as fun to see Shador and Travis Hunter
spend three years staying in Jackson State.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Oh yeah, oh, yeah, we love we enjoyed them, We
enjoyed them.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Uh, just great to get to know you appreciate the
time check.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
This is amazing. Thank you, ma'am, M
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