October 2, 2026 • 55 mins
Clay Travis and Buck Sexton look at the 2026 midterm elections, including the fight for control of the Senate and House, President Donald Trump campaigning in Texas, and the increasingly competitive Texas Senate race between Ken Paxton and James Talarico. Clay argues that Republican voters in Texas cannot take the race for granted and urges Texans to treat the contest as a serious battleground heading toward Election Day. They also discuss the controversy surrounding Cornell University and seven former fraternity members accused of sexual assault, following New York Governor Kathy Hochul's decision to initiate a special investigation led by New York Attorney General Letitia James. Clay and Buck review the allegations and the history of the case as presented in the transcript, including the accuser's statements about consent, the previous criminal investigation, multiple Cornell campus proceedings, and the subsequent civil litigation. They strongly question the decision to reopen scrutiny of the case and argue that James's involvement raises concerns about political bias and due process. They also react to comments from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, disputing her characterization of the allegations and discussing whether public statements made about the accused men could have legal or reputational consequences.
The discussion with Ann Coulter expands into a broader cultural debate over gender equality, feminism, personal responsibility, sexual morality, hookup culture and differing societal expectations for men and women. Coulter and the hosts challenge what they view as inconsistent standards surrounding intoxication, consent and accountability, and Clay presents a gender-reversed hypothetical to question whether allegations involving a male accuser would receive comparable cultural and legal treatment. They also discuss Lindsay Clancy and a separate Tennessee death-row case as part of their larger argument about responsibility and the extent to which gender or personal circumstances should influence judgments about individual conduct. Coulter contends that contemporary progressive attitudes about sex, abortion, monogamy and feminism have helped create contradictions between personal agency and demands for legal or social protection from the consequences of personal choices.
Steven Crowder, host of Louder with Crowder, then joins the program and offers his perspective on the Cornell allegations, discussing the available accounts of consent and comparing the controversy with previous nationally prominent cases including the Duke lacrosse case, Columbia University “Mattress Girl” controversy, the University of Virginia Rolling Stone controversy, Tawana Brawley, Trevor Bauer and Christine Blasey Ford. Clay, Buck and Crowder again use a gender-reversed hypothetical to debate whether the law and American culture apply equivalent standards of consent and personal responsibility to men and women. Crowder then shifts to his recent Harvard University debate with Harvard Law School professor Randall Kennedy, focused on DEI, affirmative action, racial preferences, discrimination, higher education and political ideology on elite college campuses. Crowder recounts his long-running effort to persuade university professors to debate him following the popularity of his “Change My Mind” campus events.
Dr. Marc Siegel, Fox News Channel senior medical analyst, then joins Hour 3 to discuss his book The Angels Among Us: How God’s Messengers Play a Role in Healing and the intersection of medicine, science, faith, miracles, angels and spirituality. Siegel argues that meaningful coincidences can sometimes be understood through faith and recounts stories involving miraculous survival and unexpected intervention. He discusses Fox correspondent Benjamin Hall’s survival after being badly injured during an attack in Ukraine, including Hall’s visions of family members and the chain of circumstances that ultimately led rescuers to him. Siegel also recounts President Ronald Reagan’s survival after the 1981 assassination attempt, describing the Secret Service decision to take Reagan to George Washington University Hospital, the medical team’s discovery of the gunshot wound, emergency treatment and the people Siegel views as “angels” who helped save Reagan’s life.
Make sure you never miss a second of the show by subscribing to the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton show podcast wherever you get your podcasts! ihr.fm/3InlkL8
For the latest updates from Clay & Buck, visit our website
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back in.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
We're going to have some fun during the course of
the program today, just FYI. But we are talking about
a serious story right now. The Cornell seven, the seven
men who are alleged to have committed a rape on
a undergraduate a couple of years ago. They have now
named Letitia James as the investigator. Buck, I was saying
(00:23):
off air and I'll reiterate it. I will say the
same thing to all of you. If you are politically
active in any way on the right side of the
political equation and you are basing your companies and your
life in blue cities and or blue states, you need
to move those companies.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I have a lot of.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Different interests across a variety of different industries. All of
the companies that I have are based in red states.
Because I see what a kangaroo court they have allowed
these blue state jurisdictions to be. We saw what happened
to President Trump. He's not going to be the end
of it. They are going to come after you with
(01:06):
everything they have if you live in a blue state
and you are in some way offending their sense of
political justice.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah, it's a partisan hit. I mean, let's just call
it what it is. They're going to hit you for
political reasons. And for anyone who would want to try...
and argue that point, Clay, we could give you so many.
As I mentioned, Tish James said, if there's any ethics
a prosecutor is supposed to have when running for office,
I'm pretty sure saying I'm going to get a private
citizen who has never been convicted of anything, which was
(01:36):
true at the time, would be high on that list.
But here is that same attorney general following in the
esteemed footsteps of notorious scumbag Elliot Spitzer, among others. Here
is that esteemed prosecutor saying, A.G. Letitia James on this
issue of Cornell and the case and how she's already
(01:58):
said she's supposed to look at this and decide whether
to bring charges. She's completely she sounds like like a
attorney for the accuser.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Play play the cut.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Attorney General, on your Facebook page three days ago, you wrote,
what this young woman has been forced to endure is
horrific and unacceptable. I'm holding her in my heart and
in my prayers to her and to all survivors. You're
not alone. We stand with you. But why did you
affirm her allegations as fact without doing your own fact-finding investigation?
And to the governor, why did you appoint an official
(02:29):
who made a public statement affirming those allegations as fact
as someone who's supposed to be doing an investigation?
Speaker 5 (02:36):
I will answer that.
Speaker 6 (02:38):
I have every confidence in our Attorney General to do
what she has always done. Look at the facts, examine
the record, and draw the proper conclusions. That's exactly what's
going to happen in this case.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Attorney General, please. I will not comment on a Facebook post.
Speaker 7 (02:52):
It was her Facebook post. She publicly wrote that she
agrees with the accuser on all the major issue here,
which is that she was violent and it was bad
and that she wasn't just drunk and acting like a
morally questionable young woman.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Clay, how can she still be in charge of this investigation?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
And actually, legally, she is dead in the water based
on this. You I mean, the very foundational element of
any independent review is that you cannot have prejudged the
outcome of your investigation. Now, I can't believe I'm going
to defend Letitia James. It's possible that her team posted
(03:36):
this on Facebook and she had no idea.
Speaker 8 (03:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Because it's such an identity politics thing. It's possible that
they said, oh, we're going to be on the side
of the woman.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Even if that's true, and you're saying that's a very
generous reading, which it would be, which isn't even claimed yet,
but Clay, even if that were true, for the appearance
of propriety, she can't be the one.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
She can't do it.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Now, if I am now representing these boys, these young men,
I actually love that she has posted this. Because whatever
conclusions she reaches, we're going to be able to attack
as biased. We're going to be able to argue that
she should be removed from this investigation at its outset.
(04:20):
And certainly we're going to be able to call any
eventual conclusion that she reaches into question based on her
having prejudged this situation.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Here's the problem, Buck. You've hit on this a lot.
The process is the punishment. It's one of my favorite phrases.
Speaker 8 (04:35):
You and I.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
You and I are fortunate enough to have resources to
be able to defend ourselves when people attack us. And
we are public figures and we got the airwaves and
we can go out and talk and we can say
exactly what we think on everything. These seven guys, these
seven 24 year olds or whatever they are that are
now publicly being tarred and feathered. They don't have the
(04:57):
same method by which to defend themselves. And so, look,
you can argue that Letitia James and Alvin Bragg coming
after President Trump actually resulted partly in him being elected
president of the United States. In other words, it is
the ultimate validation and vindication for him that he is
(05:20):
the most powerful man in the world now, despite the
fact that they attacked him, maybe partly because they attacked him.
What do these boys get? What do these young men get?
They can't even ever get their names back. They aren't
public figures. They probably, I mean, they're smart kids. If
they got into Cornell, they're probably trying to do investment
(05:41):
banking jobs in New York, or they're probably trying to
do venture capital in California.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
They can't get online.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Reputation is their future. That is the reality of the
world we live in today. You can't just, you know, put,
put a sack on your shoulder, hitchhike, uh, eight hours
down the road. And no one knows in that town
who you are. Like you're, you're, Scarlet.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Letter, hard and feathered. Scarlet lettered is the exact right analogy, too.
And here's the other thing. As soon as these guys
get a job anywhere, some media figure is going to
send an email to the company that employs them. And
they're going to say, why do you believe it's appropriate
for insert company here to employ insert figure here, given
(06:24):
the allegations of rape that were put out against them?
And you can say, oh, I'm willing to take the
slings and arrows for that.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Most people aren't. Most people are cowards, and they're going
to say, hey.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
We'll just move on. And to be fair, if you
run a really big company and you're employing, let's say,
1,500 people, is one 24-year-old worth your company getting associated
in a negative way with this case?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
For a lot of people, the answer is no.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And I don't know what the independent family status is
of these individuals, but most kids who graduate from Ivy
League schools aren't so wealthy that they're going to be
able to live off mom and dad for the rest
of their life. So this is just, I mean, it's
just a really awful situation. And again, I come back
(07:21):
to largely this girl who has made these allegations, she
stands to potentially reap millions of dollars because there is
a likelihood, I think, given the size of Cornell, that
eventually they will say, hey, here's $ 4 million. We're sorry
the way that at least, right?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I'm just giving millions of dollars.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
No, no, but it's a seven-figure settlement just to sort
of like make it go away from there.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Could be eight figures. She might get $ 10 million, right?
I mean, she likely will get millions of dollars because
the pressure on Cornell is will be so intense that
they will settle and they will put out some statement
and they will say, we should have handled this better
and we're disappointed and we've hired 86 new rape counselors
(08:06):
at the university. And I'm just telling you how this
is all going to play out because eventually the president
of Cornell is going to worry about his or her job.
And then they're going to worry about the people on
the board are going to say, well, I don't want
to get attacked for this.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
We have to do something. And you know what else
this is, too? There's a whole industry of radical left
feminist media. Women should never be accountable for anything. There's
all this stuff out there. And they haven't really had
their this case. They've wanted this case. For 20 years.
(08:40):
I mean, go back to Duke Lacrosse. It was 20
years ago. They've wanted the high-profile, victimized... When I say wanted, like,
they've been looking for the moment to make this a
big national conversation because they've fabricated it.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
What else do you have to know?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
The New York Times, Rolling Stone, they've actually fabricated cases
like this in the past. That's how much they want
this to be a thing. And now that now they
have the case that they're going all in on it.
But as I was saying, you know, if if I
if I was sitting here, Clay, the same thing with you.
(09:17):
And I thought that seven guys look, I still think
their behavior was stupid and they're paying a very high
price for it already. I mean, these guys, you know,
they shouldn't have done what they did, but that's not
the same thing as, you know, as criminal. You know,
you know, you shouldn't you shouldn't cheat on your girlfriend
when you're in college, but you shouldn't get locked up
in a cell for that.
Speaker 8 (09:32):
Right.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
There's unethical versus criminal. Illegal, illegal and unethical are not
always the same thing. But, Clay, if there were seven
guys that drugged and raped a girl and it was
very clear from the evidence presented that that, by the way,
the prosecutor who looked at this already, you know, some
prosecutor in New York state agrees with you, agrees with me,
you know, comes came to the same conclusion we did.
(09:53):
So we're not crazy here at all.
Speaker 8 (09:55):
OK.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
And the university did, which is in no way biased
in favor of the fraternity.
Speaker 8 (10:00):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
So we had this is this is key. We had
the rational first.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Look at this, which, if anything, is weighted always overwhelmingly
in favor of the female. And now they've decided to
emotionalize it and go back at it another bite at
the apple and try to make this into something that
it quite frankly wasn't. If you and I thought that
seven guys drugged and raped the girl, we would want
the most stringent punishment available under the law. But there
(10:29):
also wouldn't be much to talk about here. That's what
I mean by the BLM always chooses cases where it's
not really what they say it is.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
You know, hands up, don't shoot. Well, that's not what happened.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
And here, this is so emotional and so charged because
they're saying, you know, AOC said it was a gang rape.
It is clear from the evidence that that is not
what happened here. And yet they want to say that's
what happened. And that's where the conflict and that's where
the outrage and that's where everything comes from.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
All right, we'll get into more. By the way, Ann
Coulter will be with us.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
And she is, I'm telling you, she is going to
be all over this. She went to Cornell. She's a
Cornell alumna as well. So she can bring a little
extra perspective to it. But she wrote years ago about
a case at Columbia with a woman that became known
as Mattress Girl.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
You remember this? A woman who claimed that she was raped.
And by the way, the police looked at it. She
wasn't raped.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
She was sending him cutesy text messages the next day.
Want to see you again? He broke up with her
six months later. And then she said she was raped.
And then she carried around a mattress everywhere with her
to signify her being violated. Literally a mattress. Carried a
mattress around campus as a protest.
Speaker 8 (11:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Ann can talk to us about that, too. So she'll
be with us in just a little bit. I can't
wait to hear what.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I personally can't wait to hear what what Ann Coulter
is going to say about this case.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
It's popcorn. Look, good ranchers.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
We got a brand new way for people to play
along with our stake bets. For those of you new
to the program, Buck always loses stake bets to me.
And I have at least one. Good, solid bet outstanding
right now about what Kamala Harris is going to do.
Is she or is she not going to run for president?
You can get on the fun now with good ranchers.
(12:20):
They have a high stakes bet, high stakes box, a.k.a.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
That's a play on words, a bet box.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
They created a special URL just for this box to
honor the stake bets on this program. Good ranchers.com slash bets.
You go to good ranchers.com slash bet. You will get
a box of steak, all preselected by us worthy of
a great steak dinner. You can make your own steak
(12:51):
bets out there. Good ranchers has got such an incredible product.
You can get hooked up today. Go check it out.
Make your own steak bets at good ranchers.com slash bet.
good ranchers.com slash bet. Brand new website. You're going to
(13:11):
love it. Check out the steak bet box. You're going
to love that too. Go to the website. Now get
your own steak bets, rolling good ranchers.com slash bet.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Prepare for the midterms. Listen to clay and buck. Do
your part in red pillow liberal today.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Second hour clay and buck kicks off. Now, once again,
joined by our friend, the one and only Ann Coulter,
13-time New York Times bestselling author. Unsafe is her substack,
which is great. I've been reading her columns for years, anncoulter.com.
You can check those out. And you know we're going
to dive into here, and I just want to remind
the audience that I think you and... Unfortunately, Keith Olbermann
(13:57):
might be the most famous Cornell alums in the country, but.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
You went to Cornell.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Andy Bernard on a fictional level from The Office. Remember
how often Andy Bernard would say he went to Cornell?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Were you there? I didn't know. Was she there at
the same time as Olbermann? Were you at the same?
Speaker 5 (14:15):
I don't think so. I think, didn't Ruth Bader Ginsburg,
one of the Supreme Court justices did, and Nabokov, and no,
there are some actually illustrious graduates.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And Keith Olbermann.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
Did not go to the Ivy League school, as I
pointed out in a column. He went to the agricultural school.
Cornell is a weird school. There are seven different schools.
There are only one is an Ivy League.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
So you went to the real Cornell.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Cornell on the headlines, obviously, for this Just shocking whole
situation here. I was telling Clay, you also you really
familiarize me as a reader with the mattress girl story,
which I see some some parallels here. That was at
Columbia University. And just what's your take on the situation
of the alleged AOC says drugging and gang rape that
(15:03):
occurred at Cornell University?
Speaker 1 (15:04):
What do you see?
Speaker 5 (15:06):
Oh, good grief. Well, before little bits of actual factual
information had come out, I just I think like a
lot of people, I start wildly skeptical of this. We
are talking about an American university. They're crazy about the,
you know, if a man says hello to you, and
that could be a sexual assault. And these crazy stats
(15:30):
on one out of four women being sexually assaulted in college,
it's completely the reverse. A college campus is about the
safest place for a woman. And they're simultaneously, you know,
teaching all these women's studies courses, And it's been the
left pushing just, you know, free sex, no concern for morality,
(15:51):
absolutely moral free world and sex in every possible way.
And at the same time, oh, take back the night.
So I start off questioning. really finding it hard to
believe that if even the Title IX representative at Cornell
University heard this lady's story and said, no dice, I'm sorry,
(16:14):
I do not believe that an Ivy League university would
hear about a gang rape and say, oh, well, boys
will be boys. No, that didn't happen. I know that
didn't happen. And I talked about this on my subzack yesterday.
I'd already looked up the fact I was looking up
some other stories I was going to be talking about.
And soon before I went on air, I saw that
ABC had gotten, oh, oh my gosh, some actual information
(16:37):
about the case, actual facts. For one thing, they have her,
I guess, six page, I think it's six page, but
her written statement that she corrected, carefully corrected in the
margins and she signed at the end. And that has
been described. I don't know why ABC won't just print
it and let us see it, but I have a suspicion. ABC,
(16:57):
David Muir, I played this on my rumble. yesterday, I
think he may get fired for playing this, reported on
the texts she had sent, something else I think they
were the first to get, to the main guy she
had gone to this fraternity to have sex with. And
by her own account, she got drunk and then she
wandered through the campus to go to this fraternity because
(17:20):
there was a guy she wanted to have sex with.
So without being invited, certainly without dinner and flowers, she's
going over to have sex with him. And And she
was the one that he was the one she was
interested in. A few days later, she it broke the
next morning. She found out that everyone knew she was
(17:40):
the girl who had voluntarily engaged in this orgy. Her
name was Mud. It was totally embarrassing. Yet and still,
she's trying to power through. And she tells this guy,
I think people should just grow up. You know, this
is this is how things are done now. People are
going to be having doing behaving like this all the time.
Why can't they just be adults about this? So she
(18:03):
was really powering through that it was, this is, you know,
that's one part of the leftist approach to sex. Utterly
moral free. And by the way, I think everyone involved
in this is a complete moral reprobate. But the idea
that only one of them was an innocent victim being being,
you know, as if in the movie North by Northwest,
(18:25):
they're forcing the drugs down her throat. No, she said
she took the drugs and the alcohol voluntarily voluntarily. She
said in the statement that they asked to do some
things with her. I think there was a foursome and
doing ketamine on her body. And she said no. And
the police officer says, and did they go ahead and
(18:45):
do it? She said no. They took no for an answer. So, yeah,
I mean, what you have is a consensual, absolutely disgusting, reprehensible,
embarrassing affair. And I think we've seen this many times before.
the more the facts come out, I think she's going
to be very sorry she brought this lawsuit.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Well, then there's the Tish James thing. But Clay, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you about.
I have done some of these cases in the past.
I don't know if you did any criminal defense work
back in the day. But as you well know, these
seven boys, the young men's, their names are out there everywhere.
They're being tarred and feathered. They're now rapists. You got
people like AOC calling them legitimately gang rapists, saying they
(19:28):
drugged her. They took advantage of her for seven hours.
These facts are not supported, but they are widely distributed
as alternative truths, so to speak. So now Letitia James
is investigating this. Letitia James has already said this woman
was raped. Pretend, Ann, that you were representing one of
(19:49):
these seven boys. Maybe they will have collective attorneys representing
the totality of them. What would you do? How would
you try to handle this? Because it feels like, to me,
it is almost a certainty that they're going to try
to come up with a reason to charge them with crimes.
And then they can blame the jury if the jury
ultimately doesn't convict because they're male and they are the
(20:12):
bad guys in the Democrat Party worldview.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
No, that's right. And in fact, I did have a
couple of these cases. This is how we got the
Violence Against Women Act declared unconstitutional. It was two cases,
black athletes being accused by, I think it was both times,
white female athletes of rape. And in both cases, it
was because... The men they had had sex with were
(20:39):
not particularly gentlemanly about it the next day and were
heard joking about it. This was the one I particularly
worked on, joking about it in the lunchroom. And at
that point, much like... much like the alleged victim here.
I mean, it took her three weeks to report this.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
And it all came out because she didn't get invited
to the Halloween party. They took the invitation back. If
they had just let her come to the Halloween party,
none of this might have happened. Sorry to cut you off,
but that is evidently the impetus.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
I think it's a lot.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
I think it's a lot more than what had happened
to her reputation. Although she's claiming, oh, everybody behaves this
way now. It became very clear to her that everyone
did not behave that way. She was being looked at
as a whore. She was embarrassed about it. And, you know,
much like Tawana Brawley didn't want to tell her father
she had been out all night with men. I mean,
(21:30):
this happens all the time when girls don't want to
tell their boyfriends or their father's that they've been having sex,
they claim rape, and here it's the entire campus thinking
that she's a whore. And I think so far what
I've heard from the attorneys is actually pretty good. I
thought it was hilarious that one of the guys, not hilarious,
but a serious point to make, one of the guys
(21:53):
is accusing her of rape or hostile behavior. you know,
sexual assault because he says she, I don't know, she
tried to or did, I don't know, perform oral sex
or do something with him without his consent. And he
was intoxicated. That's what it was. He was intoxicated and
(22:13):
she performed an act on him that he did not
consent to. Plus, which he couldn't consent because he was intoxicated.
I mean, you already see the defense. And again, why
haven't we seen the full six page statement? Why haven't
we seen all of the texts? I think we should
be suspicious of that because the small amount that is
leaked shows that, of course, the case wasn't brought. They
(22:36):
took no for an answer. She took the drugs consensually.
She consensually engaged in this orgy. And the only time
she reported it as rape was when it was apparently
it was all over the campus by the next morning.
And she woke up finding out that everybody was talking
about her behavior.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Ann Coulter with us now. Unsafe is her substack, guys.
She does fantastic work. And you should go check it out.
Speaker 8 (23:01):
Subscribe.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Look at her Rumble, a show on Rumble. And take
me to, if you would, the politics of this, because
you got the governor of New York, who is a
verified imbecile, the attorney general of New York, who is
a verified imbecile. But they are seizing upon this. They're
holding press conferences. They are you know, this is. This
is AOC is talking about this everything. Is this just
(23:24):
because Democrats are insane or is this because there's an
election in 30 days and they think this will mobilize
some of the, you know, emotionally unstable, very online true
crime women or something like what.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Is it more than that? They're crazy or is it? No,
they're just insane. And this is what they do.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
I think it's that they're just insane. I mean, this
is like waving a red cape in front of. liberal woman.
Like I say, they want to have it both ways,
that ourselves, our bodies, abortion is the most important sacrament.
Instead of just telling young women, don't sleep around, don't
get smashed and show up at a fraternity house at
(24:03):
2 a.m. begging for sex with some guy. Have some
respect for yourself. No, no, no. Liberals find that very,
very fusty. They will not do that. So they have
to balance this pushing women into doing insane things that
they should never be doing to, yes, but don't worry
(24:25):
if you change your mind, if something bad happens, we'll
accuse the boys of rape because you have no agency.
You have no responsibility for getting intoxicated.
Speaker 9 (24:34):
I mean, for Pete's sake, more and more and more
between this woman, the botched execution in Tennessee yesterday, who
invokes Lindsay Clancy, because she thinks she shouldn't be held
responsible for this brutal, unbelievably horrific murder she committed back
when she was 18.
Speaker 5 (24:52):
She's been on death row for 30 years. She compares herself. Oh, yes,
but I was abused as a child. Lindsay Clancy can't
be held responsible for murdering her three children. And now
you have a woman voluntarily, by all accounts, by all evidence,
participating in an orgy. And No, she can't be held responsible.
(25:13):
But the guys who were also intoxicated, they could be
held responsible. Oh, my gosh. If any of what liberals
say about women is true, women cannot vote.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Well, this is what I was going to say. This
is my wife's argument. And she is still fired up
about all the Lindsay Clancy. I think now with what
we're seeing from the Cornell case and I think also
with the Tennessee botched execution, what women are arguing is.
is that because they are women, they can't be held
to the same standard as men, which is the same
(25:45):
argument that was made for why women shouldn't be allowed
to vote. So the most progressive thought now is just
an echo of 19th century male positions on why women
shouldn't have been given the right to vote. Do the
women on the left recognize this absurdity?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Are they I.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Mean, do they not see what they have managed to
create here? It is a world where women can't be
trusted to be treated as equal with men.
Speaker 5 (26:14):
I mean, I'd like to see a poll on this,
but this may be why so many women run from
the label feminists. I don't see the advantage to any
male claiming to be a male feminist. Big, big mistake, fellas.
Barking up the wrong tree there.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
By the way, women run, as Buckwell knows, too. If
a man describes himself as a male feminist, it's just
because he thinks that's the only way he can get
you to sleep with him.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Just FYI. These are these are often the worst people
on the planet.
Speaker 8 (26:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
And look at the women that would impress. So I
just think that this liberal women can't get themselves out
of this. They they they are so against normal, traditional morality, normal,
traditional feelings, just common sense. How do you square that
(27:07):
with what's going to happen to women if you if
you unleash them on the world with with. With this
utterly immoral instruction, go have sex with whomever you want to. And,
you know, if you get pregnant, you can just kill
off the baby. And here we're going to be. I mean,
this has gone on for years. I don't know if
it is still going on, but this hanging. Remember Jocelyn
(27:29):
Elders under Clinton wanted to teach kindergartners how to put
on condoms? You had kindergartners and first graders being taught
about fisting. This is a big thing on the left,
that we have to just completely degrade the act of sex.
There should be nothing sacred about it, nothing monogamous. Oh, monogamy,
(27:50):
that is so yesterday's news. Look at the New York Times.
They're basically pushing foursomes and threesomes and polygamy. So how
else are they going to square that behavior with what
will inevitably be a complete disaster for women? It's not
great for men, but a complete disaster for women. And
that's Well, if you change your mind, if you do
(28:12):
end up getting hurt, don't worry, we'll blame the man.
So they've kind of boxed themselves in with this by insisting,
just will not move off their immoral philosophies.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
And we appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
We know a lot of people out there, by the way,
just as we as we leave. Can you imagine if
a man showed up at a sorority house, had multiple threesomes,
consented to it all drugs off the bodies, naked, all
that stuff. And then two years later, he sued for
millions of dollars in damages and claimed that he was
revoking his consent. How we would all respond to that lawsuit.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
That would not have happened at DG.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Ed Coulter, we appreciate the time.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
If you're out there right now and you're thinking to yourself,
I need a little bit more energy, you're headed into
the weekend. Maybe you, like me, have a high school
football game to go to. Maybe you're going to be
watching a lot of college football, the NFL. Maybe you
are traveling. Maybe you've got kids and grandkids that you're
trying to keep up with. That's what Chalk is designed
to do. Use my name, Clay, and a $ 99 bonus product.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Free of charge. They're Lit Powder.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
When you get hooked up at Chalk.com, that's C-H-O-Q.com.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
My name, Clay.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
$ 99 bonus product, free of charge. Awesome for exercising, giving
you a little bit more energy so you can lift
a little bit more weight, as I am trying to
do so I can keep up with my 16-year-old. Chalk.com, C-H-O-Q.
My name, Clay, for the free lit powder. Great for energy.
(29:45):
Sign up today. Chalk.com. Promo code C-L-A-Y.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Smart, fun, sane. The Clay and Buck Show. Here every
day for your listening pleasure. Welcome back into Clay and Buck.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
We are joined now by Stephen Crowder, host of Louder
with Crowder on Rumble. Also the creator of Change My Mind,
where he goes on college campuses and, well, sees that
people can change his mind. He did that, started that
back in 2016. And he also debated on Wednesday night
against Harvard law professor Randall Kennedy over DEI affirmative action.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
A whole bunch of things.
Speaker 8 (30:22):
Mr.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Crowder, looking good. What is that? Is that a pipe?
Speaker 8 (30:26):
It is a pipe.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
You know, it's funny. People forget.
Speaker 10 (30:29):
I taught Joe Rogan how to smoke a pipe my
first appearance like 10 years ago. And I just often
don't really do it on air. But it's been a week,
so I'm going to enjoy it. This is an old
corn cob, by the way.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
All good.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
That's an American thing. It's Friday. There you go.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
It's corn cob Friday here on Clay and Buck, courtesy
of our friend Mr.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Crowder. That's what my lady says. I want to hear
about your Harvard debate. Really interesting. I want to hear
about your Harvard debate.
Speaker 8 (30:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Let's talk about that.
Speaker 8 (30:55):
That's better.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
You want to do Harvard debate?
Speaker 8 (30:57):
No, no.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Well, but actually, I first want to ask you if
I could just for because we're talking about a lot.
Do you think these Cornell kids are going to end
up getting charged by Tish James or are they just
going to make a lot of noise, go through the motions,
but eventually realize that this this wasn't charged by the
prosecutor for a reason the first time?
Speaker 1 (31:15):
What do you think?
Speaker 8 (31:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (31:16):
So we covered it on my show yesterday or the
day before, just to be clear. Now, there have been
some developments, as I understand it, since then. And I've
been doing press appearances and kind of have to do,
you know, on Friday, sometimes have to do some clerical work.
So I don't want to misspeak. But as I understand it,
she was quite the whore.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
So what we.
Speaker 10 (31:34):
Know that matters, like in other words, we say we
don't want to slut shame.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
And we all kind of were on board with that
at one point. We go, OK, well, sure. OK, it's Halloween.
Just like that.
Speaker 10 (31:44):
OK, you're you're you're dressed now in a way that
a prostitute. would have been picked up immediately in just,
you know, the 1980s. But sure, we'll go along with that.
And now we're like, we don't want to slut shame
someone who took ketamine and requested a threesome multiple times
until the break of dawn. Well, then I guess we
just can't slut shame anybody. We have to say that
sluts were a figment of our imagination. Now, there's so
(32:06):
much here that doesn't add up. And there are so
many cases, right? So I err on the side of
whatever it is the left is saying, they're most likely lying.
And by the way, I have about an 80% chance
of getting that right. So if I'm a betting man,
those are the odds that I'm playing. But I've looked
into this case. And of course, the story she's telling now,
it's like Christine Blasey Ford, not the same as the
story she told before. She willingly took drugs, willingly ingested, obviously,
(32:28):
all the alcohol, willingly engaged in the sexual activity, didn't
say that it was an assault early on. And we
saw Mattress Girl at Columbia, Duke Lacrosse, UVA hoax, there's
Tawana Brawley, Trevor Bauer. There are so many of these
I'm at the point where you you really better prove
something that we haven't heard yet. That's that's where I am. And,
you know, hey, if she if she wants to be
(32:49):
a dime store floozy, you know, more power to her.
Just when you decide to wear the title, then, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
You keep it for life.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Stephen, I want to get your take on this because
I think you probably will have an entertaining one. Guy
goes to a sorority house. engages in sexual activity with
seven different women, snorts drugs off their bodies.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
But what do your fantasies have to do with this?
Speaker 8 (33:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Snorts drugs off their bodies, has them doing the same.
Consent says one might imagine he would to all of it.
Everybody on campus finds out about it. A couple of
weeks later, the girls say you can't come to our
Halloween party. He decides that maybe he did not consent.
Two years later, he files a lawsuit saying that if
on retrospect, he did not consent to any of this.
(33:35):
We kind of have a little bit of a test
case on this, because if you remember the investment banker
guy who tried to say that he was the sex
slave of the other investment banker.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
And no one believed it when they saw the photo
of her or the photo of him.
Speaker 10 (33:48):
That was a bitch who was obviously, that was the
one who said she referred to his wife as a
fish head.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Like it was so clear that he was making it
up and said.
Speaker 10 (33:56):
She said my good wife is fish head, but she
doesn't have cannons like this.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I mean, it was an amazing, but everybody made fun
of the guy. Because they said, hey, this sounds like
the best boss ever, right? Basically, you should have just
been her willing sex slave. We would all ridicule a
guy who filed that lawsuit if we sent him to
a sorority house instead of her to a fraternity house.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
If we had truly.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
An equal treatment of men and women under the law,
shouldn't our response be the exact same in terms of
ridiculing her as we would be ridiculing the guy?
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Yeah, and I think you make a very.
Speaker 10 (34:34):
A very important point, but I would say I break
it up into two kind of separate points.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
One, yes, of course, in the eyes of the law,
we should.
Speaker 10 (34:41):
Two, yes, also culturally, meaning the law should apply equally. Culturally,
we should laugh at and shame both groups of people equally.
The problem is this really does stem from culture because
women have been made unaccountable for largely any of their
actions i mean look at lindsey clancy and people will
(35:01):
say oh you're picking the most extreme example no i'm
talking about nine jurors and i'm talking about every poll
that we have at least half give or take of
american women who think she was not guilty and blame
the husband blame the husband right that's an extreme example
but it's one that we all know the same thing
here it's not going to play out any other way
until women start policing themselves if there's something else that
(35:24):
we don't know and if she was slipped the drug
of Look, we all agree.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Actual rapists. I OK. Bury them beneath the railroad tracks.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Bury them underneath the prison. We get that.
Speaker 8 (35:35):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
We're the party that says pedophiles should get the death penalty.
I get it. But the me too thing.
Speaker 10 (35:40):
Screwed all this up where sometimes you just end up
with a bad date or in this case, a lady
who is. Let me put a finer point on it.
She quite this is not just sort of a colloquialism.
She quite literally.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Was asking for it repeatedly repeatedly. But people go, what
are you saying? She was asking for it because she
actually asked for it. Now, what do we do?
Speaker 8 (36:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Like many, many times for many, many people, from what
we understand, Stephen Crowder, guys louder with Crowder. We wanted
to get you to just tell us. It's funny, actually,
I was going to go to Harvard recently to give
a speech. And unfortunately, I got big footed by some
world leader from the U.N. General Assembly or something. So
I would have missed you by a couple of weeks.
I'm really curious then about this. What was the atmosphere
(36:25):
like for this debate? I mean, you know, you went
to Harvard. Were they were they welcoming? Were there safety concerns?
Were there security? And we can get to the substance
of it, too. But I just wonder what the atmosphere
on campus, obviously, a post Charlie Kirkworld, what this is
like now.
Speaker 10 (36:40):
Well, I will tell you, this is something I've been
trying to do for, I mean, people say a decade.
It's really probably more like eight or nine years. The
first team to mine, I think, was in 2017 that
we released publicly. When we started it and we were
doing it on campus, first off, it would just be
in a city. And then kids would say, hey, could
you come do this on my campus? Because no one's
having these conversations. And we always thought, well, great. And
we'd always extend an invitation to professors. The idea, think
(37:02):
of like an old Nintendo game, the final boss professor.
Not only do they never show up, we were usually
being booted from campus for which we had a valid
permit from the professors. And so then we issued a
formal call out to professors publicly and then offered ten
thousand dollars to the charity or department of their choosing.
(37:22):
We had another professor agree to do it at Harvard.
We said, we'll do it wherever you want. You can
pick the moderator and you can pick the rules and
we'll agree to them. She demanded that it not be
live streamed. Danielle Allen, I believe her name, and she
demanded the right to back to the rape retroactively remove
her consent within three days if she didn't like the
way that it went.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
So we said no.
Speaker 10 (37:41):
It moved to UPenn with Professor John Zimmerman. Within days
of the live stream, they said you can't live stream.
So finally, this happened. Professor Kendall Kennedy, Oxford, Princeton, Yale,
Thurgood Marshall, clerked for him and tenured since 1989. You
don't get more qualified than that. And the point was here,
(38:02):
I'll tell you what, I was incredibly intimidated. I've had
people on my show, you know, I've had governors, I've
had senators, I've had other people where there'd be online debates,
but people.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Say, well, yeah, it's not a real debate. You're just
talking with kids on campus. Okay.
Speaker 10 (38:15):
Their territory, their rules, their best. And it's not that
I'm anything formidable. Either their ideas stand up to scrutiny
or they don't. And people can go and watch the
debate and make up their own minds. But there was
a lot of pressure on me on this one. A
college dropout, I guess, didn't do too badly.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
I would say this, and Buck certainly in this camp,
you know I am.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
I've been on your show several times.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
The right or the sane America, because I think it's
about 75% of people, is willing to actually engage in debate.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
You have a.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Different opinion than us. Come on, explain why we're wrong.
I find it somewhat encouraging that this debate even happened
at a place like Harvard.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Do you? I do not that it took 10 years.
Speaker 8 (39:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (39:02):
And I think it'll probably after the way it went down,
it'll probably take another 10. I think I think they
probably had a couple of meetings at Harvard saying we
can't do that again. There was a bomb threat I
found out that day later. It wasn't related to the event.
And then that exact same day, this really could be
a seminal moment. And I don't just say this to
pat myself on the back. Before I went out there
and I was doing preparation, a study was released. that
(39:26):
a custom AI tutor at Harvard, I believe 160 students,
it was a physics class, they compared a group, they
split them into two groups, AI tutor versus those in
an actual hands-on in-person learning environment. And those who used
the AI tutor learned twice as much and completed the
tasks in I think 49 minutes versus 60 minutes. That
happened the same day that, I mean, the debate wasn't
(39:48):
even close. And I don't say that because I obviously
have a bias. I say it because I said in
my opening statement, I told people exactly what he would
do down to the letter.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
He did it anyway.
Speaker 10 (40:02):
And I finished his phrases for him before he could
finish it himself because I knew exactly what he would say.
And again, it's not that it's just this professor. It's
what you'll find from every professor at Harvard teaching these
same ideas. And I've encountered them time and time again.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
I'll tell you this. If one big takeaway... Change my
mind is not debate. Change my mind, you know, is
kind of the first street version. It's rhetoric.
Speaker 10 (40:25):
And when people sit down, we go all the way
through and we don't edit it. If someone's in bad
faith and, you know, going up saying, blah, blah, blah, whatever,
I go, OK, it's time.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
For you to go.
Speaker 10 (40:33):
But I don't boot them because I don't think that's fair.
So in this case, it's OK, we have time. We
have a very clearly drawn line, and I am aiming
to make it very clear that our ideas are better.
It is an actual debate, and it was significantly easier
than sitting down for five hours with all comers because I.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Don't think– I'm going to do to you what I
always tell my wife not to do to me, which
is after three hours of live radio.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
She's like, what did you talk about today? I'm like, oh, God, please.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Anything but the summation of three hours of radio right
after radio. Can you just give me the– is this
guy just history of racism, but also we need to
give it to Hispanics for no apparent reason, but also
Native Americans. That's why we need DEI because of the reservations.
I mean, what was– was it just the most kind
(41:21):
of rote, basic left-wing liberalism stuff?
Speaker 1 (41:25):
And what was his POV? And here's the thing. He
is more reasonable. He is more moderate.
Speaker 10 (41:30):
But that's not enough to change the tone at Harvard.
It's 95% of political donations go to Democrats. You'll find
numbers as high as 99. I always use the conservative numbers.
If you look at commencement speakers at Ivy Leagues in general,
there was a Johnson and across 52 schools, Harvard included.
It was at least a three, usually about a seven
(41:52):
to one ratio of left to right for 36 straight years.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
They had a DEI pledge.
Speaker 10 (41:59):
And what I said he would do is the left
will act as though a pause in federal funding over
teaching discriminatory practices is the same as burning books.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
And it's not.
Speaker 10 (42:08):
He will chalk it up to being, you know, an
organic representation. San Francisco will give you close to 80-20.
There's a DEI pledge. That's a litmus test. And this
man will condemn the practice to be reasonable, but defend
the institution anyway. And that's exactly what he did. There
was no pivot. And this is the best they have
to offer. And a very, very nice guy. And I
(42:29):
have all the respect in the world for him. But
my point is, hey, if a college dropout who people
have said has no business being there in the halls
of academia... with the elite, can do what we did,
that means that other people out there can too. I
hope the kids see this and anytime someone says, well,
you know what, we should be, we want the intelligent folks.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
You know why Barack Obama was president? Let's be honest. Harvard.
Speaker 10 (42:51):
A junior senator with a voting record that was largely
just present. We don't even have his records unsealed. The
only head of the Harvard Law Review who went completely unpublished,
by the way.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
What do they always say? He's really smart. Harvard, you
know what I've always said? He's smart. I don't think
he's that smart. I say the same thing about this professor.
He's smart. He's not as smart as people tell you.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Well, the credentialism factories, Stephen, we could do a whole
show just on this with you, because I've seen this
up close and personal in a whole bunch of different ways.
But he went to no shade at Occidental, but he
was at Occidental before and then suddenly gets into Columbia
and then suddenly gets into Harvard Law School. And, you know,
the presidents before him who ran show shared their SATs.
And then that became you weren't allowed to say, well,
(43:34):
why can't we see this president's presidential candidates SATs?
Speaker 1 (43:38):
That was considered.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
Racist so the point is harvard has been doing this
for a long time putting the stamp of intellectual elitism
on people who actually are not in no meaningful way
smarter than the people that they think they.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Should lord over and rule over so uh we're by
the way we're.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Linking the debate up on the website and uh let's
come back and let's come back and get you to
hang some other time we really appreciate it keep up
the good work i appreciate it thank you very much
i appreciate it i know it's friday so you guys
probably want to get to uh having some, you know, make,
make an old corn cob Friday, go, uh, go have
a good old, good old time with the ladies and
tell them no summaries of the last three hours, just
(44:14):
corn cabin. I'm going to say Steven's orders, honey, you know,
Steven's orders, corn cob pipe smoking.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
All right.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Here is a little trade craft from back in the
day when I worked in Intel. Uh, when you want
to get to know someone, you start where they sleep,
then who they love, then their routine, right? So that
used to take a team of analysts and I was
one of them these days. A data broker already did
all that on you. Your home address, your cell, your relatives,
packaged and for sale to anyone with a credit card.
(44:41):
No badge, no security clearance needed, no questions asked. In
my old world, we'd call that a security breach. Today,
we call it a business model. If you want online privacy,
your best move is to go dark.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
They want you to have all your stuff online.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
You don't want that. Remove your information from the web.
Incogni does this for you. More than 420 data brokers
and people search sites. get notified by Incogni on your behalf.
You don't want all your personal info out there. Then
they keep inspecting those sites to have your info taken down.
Make sure they keep it that way. Go to incogni.com
slash buck. This is just necessary for the protection of
(45:16):
your personal data online. Incogni, I-N-C-O-G-N-I dot com slash buck.
Get 60% off incogni.com slash buck.
Speaker 7 (45:26):
Laugh learn hang with the guys right there when you
need them most clay and buck just preset them on
the iheart app.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
All right welcome back into clay and buck here uh
we got a lot of talkbacks that we want to
get to and also we'll be joined here i believe
shortly by a special guest but first up a little
bit of shade over shaving From Kevin in Phoenix who
listens on KFYI, this is A on the Talkbacks.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Hey, Buck, Clay's an idiot.
Speaker 6 (45:52):
I shave every day, and I guarantee you I have
just as much testosterone as he does.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
What a boob.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
But maybe he threw that in at the end because
he knows about your fondness for the First Amendment and boobs,
you know? So at least it was kind of a
high five at the end there for you, Clay.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
That the average bearded man has a higher testosterone level
than the average non-bearded man.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
I don't even think that's remote.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Of all the opinions that I could have and have
shared on here, I think that's one of the least
controversial ones that I've ever had. We've got some funny
talkbacks continuing, by the way.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
Yeah, here we go. Mary from Florida listens on WFLA.
This is C, hit it.
Speaker 11 (46:49):
When I got out of the military, I went on
a job interview for an avionics company. I did not
have a jacket, but I had a nice skirt, a
nice button-down shirt, and heels to go to this interview.
The owner of the company did not hire me despite
my qualifications because I didn't have a blazer on, didn't
have one with me.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
But it was fine.
Speaker 11 (47:10):
I ended up getting a better job with the DOD
later who didn't care that I had a jacket.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
We were talking about this for people who don't know.
Real quick.
Speaker 8 (47:19):
Right.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
Yesterday we were talking about things that have gotten you
nixed from a job that involved dress code or something
like that. I want to know, was she told it
was because of the blazer, or is she thinking it's
because she didn't have a blazer? That's a big difference, right?
Because you don't really know. All right, we got right
now Dr. Mark Siegel, Fox News Channel's senior medical analyst,
(47:41):
author of the book, new book, The Angels Among Us,
How God's Messengers Play a Role in Healing.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
Dr.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Siegel, you're a man of science, but you're also talking
about God and angels here.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Talk to us, my friend. What's going on?
Speaker 8 (47:53):
Well, let me tell you, Buck, what this is about
is the idea that coincidences are never really coincidences. That essentially,
and Carl Jung said this, the famed psychiatrist, that they're meaningful,
that things come together in a certain way. And almost
all the chapters in the book have that.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
And when you have that.
Speaker 8 (48:16):
there are angels involved who make those miracles happen. And
those angels are sometimes real angels that God sends from above,
and they're ethereal. As in the case of Sam Rodriguez's
daughter in this book, Pastor Sam, he's praying for angels,
and she says, Dad, what are these shadows in the room?
And suddenly she recovers from COVID in 2020 from her
(48:38):
ventilator where she was not expected to live. That's actual angels.
But then there are angels as messengers, like when Ben Hall,
our own senior correspondent Ben Hall, was– you know, was
after he was in that explosion of that missile in
Ukraine and his cameraman, Pierre, died. And he wrote about
this in his book. But I told parts of this
(48:59):
that he didn't write about, which he told me in
an interview where, yes, he saw his daughter as an angel,
but he didn't tell anyone that his dead father, who
he had just buried, also came to him as a vision.
And as he was crawling out of the car, get this,
Ukrainian special forces was driving by and they didn't see him. Well,
(49:20):
five miles down the road, they had car trouble and
they had to turn around and come back to get
the car fixed. And in coming back, he raised his hands. Hey, hey,
we're down here. We're down here. He saw them, saved
his life. Our senior security correspondent, Jennifer Griffin, said, save
our allies to him. And they were driving across Ukraine
(49:40):
in the middle of the night to match up with
the prime minister of Poland, who just happened to be
in that area, and Ben Hall was taken out of
there and saved as a result. Those coincidences and those
angels I just mentioned, some of them actual angels, some
of them angels that came to him, saved his life.
Ronald Reagan, I write about in this book, in 1981,
(50:01):
after he was shot, Jerry Parr in the car was
the Secret Service guy who dove on him. He saw
blood in his mouth. He thought he had injured his ribs.
He did not know he was shot. He brought him
to the hospital rather than back to the White House thinking, uh-oh,
I caused rib damage. He gets to the hospital. There's
no wheelchairs. The president walks 45 yards towards the hospital
(50:23):
and then collapses. They bring him in, and then they
realize he's been shot in the lung. In the ER, Dr.
David Gens, who I interviewed, this amazing trauma surgeon, says
that they actually were taking care of Jerry Baker, the...
the press secretary over Reagan because that's how doctors do triage.
(50:45):
But when he was in the hospital, he felt nurses
all around him, some of them actual angels, some just
nurses holding his hand. They figured out he lost a
lot of blood. They got him into the OR, all
amazing interventions on the part of angels. When he recovered,
Get this part of the story. This is in the book.
Secret Service has to go into the OR. They've got
(51:07):
their guns bulging out of their scrubs. They've got gum
shoes bulging out of their shoe covers. They've got hair
coming out of their hairnets. But they have to be
stationed fidgeting in the OR. When he comes out... GW
has him, and Walter Reed wants him. He's the commander-in-chief.
And they say to Nancy Reagan, get them the hell
out of GW. We want them. At Walter Reed, she's
(51:30):
ready to transfer him, but GW hurries up and paints
the entire floor so the president will stay. So the
man just has half his lung removed, and he's sitting
there in a freshly painted floor with fumes of paint
going into his lungs. Dr. David Gens was the surgeon
that oversaw his care, a true angel. throughout his hospital stay. Wow.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
This is amazing stories. And those are all very positive.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
I hate to go dark here, but if you believe
in angels, do you also believe in demons?
Speaker 8 (52:04):
You bet I do. And the book starts with that
because I'm riding my bicycle across the country, Clay, at
the age of 20. And I open a door to
another world And when I'm about at the border to
the United States, a black Cadillac comes to me and
literally breaks my bicycle in half. And I thought, this
(52:24):
is the end of my dream trip. But a policeman.
takes the bicycle and spends all night welding it back
into condition where I could ride with one gear across
the Mackinac Bridge, across into the United States, across the
Mackinac Bridge. That was an angel. The devil was the
man in the Cadillac. The devils provoke us, the demons
(52:44):
provoke us, and the angels save us from the demons.
And that's a huge part of this book. There's evil,
and then there's God's saviors that come and rescue us.
In fact, that story I told you about Pastor Sam,
when his daughter was saved in the ICU, what I
didn't tell you was that the angel of death was there, too.
She saw that dark presence looming over her bed, and
(53:07):
then she saw the other angels, and they saved her. Dr.
Speaker 3 (53:12):
Mark Siegel of Fox News. The book, it's coming out,
available for pre-order now. So you can get your pre-order copy.
It'll get right sent to you. The Angels Among Us,
How God's Messengers Play a Role in Healing.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
Dr. Siegel, very interesting. Appreciate you, sir. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 8 (53:26):
By the way, Bob Dylan's in the book, too, Buck.
I don't know if you're a Bob Dylan fan, but
he's in the book. Both of his conversions to Christianity,
to Orthodox Judaism. He had an angel named Larry Kramer
who was in a wheelchair who dove off of a
cliff and ended up paralyzed by praying God saved him.
And he was Dylan's good luck charm throughout decades. And
(53:47):
he brought him to all his concerts.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
Got the book. Lots of great stories in it, guys. Dr. Siegel,
thank you again.
Speaker 8 (53:53):
Great to be on with you guys. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
Look, the team at the International Fellowship of Christians and
Jews were in Israel three years ago when Hamas terrorists
terrorized the country, killing 1,200 and taking 250 more as hostages.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
They were already on the ground.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Because of the amazing humanitarian work they've been doing there
for decades, including helping elderly Holocaust survivors. On that day,
they immediately mobilized all their efforts to help in the
aftermath of October 7th. Next week is the anniversary of
that horrific day. and the IFCJ has started a movement
called Flags of Fellowship. You will see thousands of Israeli
(54:30):
flags on full display in solidarity with the Jewish population,
remembering the terrorist attack by Hamas. The IFCJ saw firsthand
the loss of life, the sense of destruction, the worst
day in Israel's history. They don't want anyone to forget
what happened there. You can participate as well by donating
$ 25 today to plant your flag and boldly show your
(54:50):
support for Israel. and the Jewish people, certainly in light
of the attempted hijacking. We know that terror attacks in
the Holy Land and around the world are continuing. The
IFCJ has created a special website, joinfof.org. That's the word
join and the letters fof.org. One more time, joinfof.org.
Speaker 8 (55:17):
Yep. Smart. Fun.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
Sane. It's the Clay and Buck Show. Here today.
Speaker 8 (55:24):
Here tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
Every day for your listening pleasure.
Welcome back in.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
We're going to have some fun during the course of
the program today, just FYI. But we are talking about
a serious story right now. The Cornell seven, the seven
men who are alleged to have committed a rape on
a undergraduate a couple of years ago. They have now
named Letitia James as the investigator. Buck, I was saying
(00:23):
off air and I'll reiterate it. I will say the
same thing to all of you. If you are politically
active in any way on the right side of the
political equation and you are basing your companies and your
life in blue cities and or blue states, you need
to move those companies.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I have a lot of.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Different interests across a variety of different industries. All of
the companies that I have are based in red states.
Because I see what a kangaroo court they have allowed
these blue state jurisdictions to be. We saw what happened
to President Trump. He's not going to be the end
of it. They are going to come after you with
(01:06):
everything they have if you live in a blue state
and you are in some way offending their sense of
political justice.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah, it's a partisan hit. I mean, let's just call
it what it is. They're going to hit you for
political reasons. And for anyone who would want to try...
and argue that point, Clay, we could give you so many.
As I mentioned, Tish James said, if there's any ethics
a prosecutor is supposed to have when running for office,
I'm pretty sure saying I'm going to get a private
citizen who has never been convicted of anything, which was
(01:36):
true at the time, would be high on that list.
But here is that same attorney general following in the
esteemed footsteps of notorious scumbag Elliot Spitzer, among others. Here
is that esteemed prosecutor saying, A.G. Letitia James on this
issue of Cornell and the case and how she's already
(01:58):
said she's supposed to look at this and decide whether
to bring charges. She's completely she sounds like like a
attorney for the accuser.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Play play the cut.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Attorney General, on your Facebook page three days ago, you wrote,
what this young woman has been forced to endure is
horrific and unacceptable. I'm holding her in my heart and
in my prayers to her and to all survivors. You're
not alone. We stand with you. But why did you
affirm her allegations as fact without doing your own fact-finding investigation?
And to the governor, why did you appoint an official
(02:29):
who made a public statement affirming those allegations as fact
as someone who's supposed to be doing an investigation?
Speaker 5 (02:36):
I will answer that.
Speaker 6 (02:38):
I have every confidence in our Attorney General to do
what she has always done. Look at the facts, examine
the record, and draw the proper conclusions. That's exactly what's
going to happen in this case.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Attorney General, please. I will not comment on a Facebook post.
Speaker 7 (02:52):
It was her Facebook post. She publicly wrote that she
agrees with the accuser on all the major issue here,
which is that she was violent and it was bad
and that she wasn't just drunk and acting like a
morally questionable young woman.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Clay, how can she still be in charge of this investigation?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
And actually, legally, she is dead in the water based
on this. You I mean, the very foundational element of
any independent review is that you cannot have prejudged the
outcome of your investigation. Now, I can't believe I'm going
to defend Letitia James. It's possible that her team posted
(03:36):
this on Facebook and she had no idea.
Speaker 8 (03:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Because it's such an identity politics thing. It's possible that
they said, oh, we're going to be on the side
of the woman.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Even if that's true, and you're saying that's a very
generous reading, which it would be, which isn't even claimed yet,
but Clay, even if that were true, for the appearance
of propriety, she can't be the one.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
She can't do it.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Now, if I am now representing these boys, these young men,
I actually love that she has posted this. Because whatever
conclusions she reaches, we're going to be able to attack
as biased. We're going to be able to argue that
she should be removed from this investigation at its outset.
(04:20):
And certainly we're going to be able to call any
eventual conclusion that she reaches into question based on her
having prejudged this situation.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Here's the problem, Buck. You've hit on this a lot.
The process is the punishment. It's one of my favorite phrases.
Speaker 8 (04:35):
You and I.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
You and I are fortunate enough to have resources to
be able to defend ourselves when people attack us. And
we are public figures and we got the airwaves and
we can go out and talk and we can say
exactly what we think on everything. These seven guys, these
seven 24 year olds or whatever they are that are
now publicly being tarred and feathered. They don't have the
(04:57):
same method by which to defend themselves. And so, look,
you can argue that Letitia James and Alvin Bragg coming
after President Trump actually resulted partly in him being elected
president of the United States. In other words, it is
the ultimate validation and vindication for him that he is
(05:20):
the most powerful man in the world now, despite the
fact that they attacked him, maybe partly because they attacked him.
What do these boys get? What do these young men get?
They can't even ever get their names back. They aren't
public figures. They probably, I mean, they're smart kids. If
they got into Cornell, they're probably trying to do investment
(05:41):
banking jobs in New York, or they're probably trying to
do venture capital in California.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
They can't get online.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Reputation is their future. That is the reality of the
world we live in today. You can't just, you know, put,
put a sack on your shoulder, hitchhike, uh, eight hours
down the road. And no one knows in that town
who you are. Like you're, you're, Scarlet.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Letter, hard and feathered. Scarlet lettered is the exact right analogy, too.
And here's the other thing. As soon as these guys
get a job anywhere, some media figure is going to
send an email to the company that employs them. And
they're going to say, why do you believe it's appropriate
for insert company here to employ insert figure here, given
(06:24):
the allegations of rape that were put out against them?
And you can say, oh, I'm willing to take the
slings and arrows for that.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Most people aren't. Most people are cowards, and they're going
to say, hey.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
We'll just move on. And to be fair, if you
run a really big company and you're employing, let's say,
1,500 people, is one 24-year-old worth your company getting associated
in a negative way with this case?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
For a lot of people, the answer is no.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And I don't know what the independent family status is
of these individuals, but most kids who graduate from Ivy
League schools aren't so wealthy that they're going to be
able to live off mom and dad for the rest
of their life. So this is just, I mean, it's
just a really awful situation. And again, I come back
(07:21):
to largely this girl who has made these allegations, she
stands to potentially reap millions of dollars because there is
a likelihood, I think, given the size of Cornell, that
eventually they will say, hey, here's $ 4 million. We're sorry
the way that at least, right?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I'm just giving millions of dollars.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
No, no, but it's a seven-figure settlement just to sort
of like make it go away from there.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Could be eight figures. She might get $ 10 million, right?
I mean, she likely will get millions of dollars because
the pressure on Cornell is will be so intense that
they will settle and they will put out some statement
and they will say, we should have handled this better
and we're disappointed and we've hired 86 new rape counselors
(08:06):
at the university. And I'm just telling you how this
is all going to play out because eventually the president
of Cornell is going to worry about his or her job.
And then they're going to worry about the people on
the board are going to say, well, I don't want
to get attacked for this.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
We have to do something. And you know what else
this is, too? There's a whole industry of radical left
feminist media. Women should never be accountable for anything. There's
all this stuff out there. And they haven't really had
their this case. They've wanted this case. For 20 years.
(08:40):
I mean, go back to Duke Lacrosse. It was 20
years ago. They've wanted the high-profile, victimized... When I say wanted, like,
they've been looking for the moment to make this a
big national conversation because they've fabricated it.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
What else do you have to know?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
The New York Times, Rolling Stone, they've actually fabricated cases
like this in the past. That's how much they want
this to be a thing. And now that now they
have the case that they're going all in on it.
But as I was saying, you know, if if I
if I was sitting here, Clay, the same thing with you.
(09:17):
And I thought that seven guys look, I still think
their behavior was stupid and they're paying a very high
price for it already. I mean, these guys, you know,
they shouldn't have done what they did, but that's not
the same thing as, you know, as criminal. You know,
you know, you shouldn't you shouldn't cheat on your girlfriend
when you're in college, but you shouldn't get locked up
in a cell for that.
Speaker 8 (09:32):
Right.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
There's unethical versus criminal. Illegal, illegal and unethical are not
always the same thing. But, Clay, if there were seven
guys that drugged and raped a girl and it was
very clear from the evidence presented that that, by the way,
the prosecutor who looked at this already, you know, some
prosecutor in New York state agrees with you, agrees with me,
you know, comes came to the same conclusion we did.
(09:53):
So we're not crazy here at all.
Speaker 8 (09:55):
OK.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
And the university did, which is in no way biased
in favor of the fraternity.
Speaker 8 (10:00):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
So we had this is this is key. We had
the rational first.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Look at this, which, if anything, is weighted always overwhelmingly
in favor of the female. And now they've decided to
emotionalize it and go back at it another bite at
the apple and try to make this into something that
it quite frankly wasn't. If you and I thought that
seven guys drugged and raped the girl, we would want
the most stringent punishment available under the law. But there
(10:29):
also wouldn't be much to talk about here. That's what
I mean by the BLM always chooses cases where it's
not really what they say it is.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
You know, hands up, don't shoot. Well, that's not what happened.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
And here, this is so emotional and so charged because
they're saying, you know, AOC said it was a gang rape.
It is clear from the evidence that that is not
what happened here. And yet they want to say that's
what happened. And that's where the conflict and that's where
the outrage and that's where everything comes from.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
All right, we'll get into more. By the way, Ann
Coulter will be with us.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
And she is, I'm telling you, she is going to
be all over this. She went to Cornell. She's a
Cornell alumna as well. So she can bring a little
extra perspective to it. But she wrote years ago about
a case at Columbia with a woman that became known
as Mattress Girl.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
You remember this? A woman who claimed that she was raped.
And by the way, the police looked at it. She
wasn't raped.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
She was sending him cutesy text messages the next day.
Want to see you again? He broke up with her
six months later. And then she said she was raped.
And then she carried around a mattress everywhere with her
to signify her being violated. Literally a mattress. Carried a
mattress around campus as a protest.
Speaker 8 (11:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Ann can talk to us about that, too. So she'll
be with us in just a little bit. I can't
wait to hear what.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I personally can't wait to hear what what Ann Coulter
is going to say about this case.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
It's popcorn. Look, good ranchers.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
We got a brand new way for people to play
along with our stake bets. For those of you new
to the program, Buck always loses stake bets to me.
And I have at least one. Good, solid bet outstanding
right now about what Kamala Harris is going to do.
Is she or is she not going to run for president?
You can get on the fun now with good ranchers.
(12:20):
They have a high stakes bet, high stakes box, a.k.a.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
That's a play on words, a bet box.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
They created a special URL just for this box to
honor the stake bets on this program. Good ranchers.com slash bets.
You go to good ranchers.com slash bet. You will get
a box of steak, all preselected by us worthy of
a great steak dinner. You can make your own steak
(12:51):
bets out there. Good ranchers has got such an incredible product.
You can get hooked up today. Go check it out.
Make your own steak bets at good ranchers.com slash bet.
good ranchers.com slash bet. Brand new website. You're going to
(13:11):
love it. Check out the steak bet box. You're going
to love that too. Go to the website. Now get
your own steak bets, rolling good ranchers.com slash bet.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Prepare for the midterms. Listen to clay and buck. Do
your part in red pillow liberal today.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Second hour clay and buck kicks off. Now, once again,
joined by our friend, the one and only Ann Coulter,
13-time New York Times bestselling author. Unsafe is her substack,
which is great. I've been reading her columns for years, anncoulter.com.
You can check those out. And you know we're going
to dive into here, and I just want to remind
the audience that I think you and... Unfortunately, Keith Olbermann
(13:57):
might be the most famous Cornell alums in the country, but.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
You went to Cornell.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Andy Bernard on a fictional level from The Office. Remember
how often Andy Bernard would say he went to Cornell?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Were you there? I didn't know. Was she there at
the same time as Olbermann? Were you at the same?
Speaker 5 (14:15):
I don't think so. I think, didn't Ruth Bader Ginsburg,
one of the Supreme Court justices did, and Nabokov, and no,
there are some actually illustrious graduates.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And Keith Olbermann.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
Did not go to the Ivy League school, as I
pointed out in a column. He went to the agricultural school.
Cornell is a weird school. There are seven different schools.
There are only one is an Ivy League.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
So you went to the real Cornell.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Cornell on the headlines, obviously, for this Just shocking whole
situation here. I was telling Clay, you also you really
familiarize me as a reader with the mattress girl story,
which I see some some parallels here. That was at
Columbia University. And just what's your take on the situation
of the alleged AOC says drugging and gang rape that
(15:03):
occurred at Cornell University?
Speaker 1 (15:04):
What do you see?
Speaker 5 (15:06):
Oh, good grief. Well, before little bits of actual factual
information had come out, I just I think like a
lot of people, I start wildly skeptical of this. We
are talking about an American university. They're crazy about the,
you know, if a man says hello to you, and
that could be a sexual assault. And these crazy stats
(15:30):
on one out of four women being sexually assaulted in college,
it's completely the reverse. A college campus is about the
safest place for a woman. And they're simultaneously, you know,
teaching all these women's studies courses, And it's been the
left pushing just, you know, free sex, no concern for morality,
(15:51):
absolutely moral free world and sex in every possible way.
And at the same time, oh, take back the night.
So I start off questioning. really finding it hard to
believe that if even the Title IX representative at Cornell
University heard this lady's story and said, no dice, I'm sorry,
(16:14):
I do not believe that an Ivy League university would
hear about a gang rape and say, oh, well, boys
will be boys. No, that didn't happen. I know that
didn't happen. And I talked about this on my subzack yesterday.
I'd already looked up the fact I was looking up
some other stories I was going to be talking about.
And soon before I went on air, I saw that
ABC had gotten, oh, oh my gosh, some actual information
(16:37):
about the case, actual facts. For one thing, they have her,
I guess, six page, I think it's six page, but
her written statement that she corrected, carefully corrected in the
margins and she signed at the end. And that has
been described. I don't know why ABC won't just print
it and let us see it, but I have a suspicion. ABC,
(16:57):
David Muir, I played this on my rumble. yesterday, I
think he may get fired for playing this, reported on
the texts she had sent, something else I think they
were the first to get, to the main guy she
had gone to this fraternity to have sex with. And
by her own account, she got drunk and then she
wandered through the campus to go to this fraternity because
(17:20):
there was a guy she wanted to have sex with.
So without being invited, certainly without dinner and flowers, she's
going over to have sex with him. And And she
was the one that he was the one she was
interested in. A few days later, she it broke the
next morning. She found out that everyone knew she was
(17:40):
the girl who had voluntarily engaged in this orgy. Her
name was Mud. It was totally embarrassing. Yet and still,
she's trying to power through. And she tells this guy,
I think people should just grow up. You know, this
is this is how things are done now. People are
going to be having doing behaving like this all the time.
Why can't they just be adults about this? So she
(18:03):
was really powering through that it was, this is, you know,
that's one part of the leftist approach to sex. Utterly
moral free. And by the way, I think everyone involved
in this is a complete moral reprobate. But the idea
that only one of them was an innocent victim being being,
you know, as if in the movie North by Northwest,
(18:25):
they're forcing the drugs down her throat. No, she said
she took the drugs and the alcohol voluntarily voluntarily. She
said in the statement that they asked to do some
things with her. I think there was a foursome and
doing ketamine on her body. And she said no. And
the police officer says, and did they go ahead and
(18:45):
do it? She said no. They took no for an answer. So, yeah,
I mean, what you have is a consensual, absolutely disgusting, reprehensible,
embarrassing affair. And I think we've seen this many times before.
the more the facts come out, I think she's going
to be very sorry she brought this lawsuit.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Well, then there's the Tish James thing. But Clay, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you about.
I have done some of these cases in the past.
I don't know if you did any criminal defense work
back in the day. But as you well know, these
seven boys, the young men's, their names are out there everywhere.
They're being tarred and feathered. They're now rapists. You got
people like AOC calling them legitimately gang rapists, saying they
(19:28):
drugged her. They took advantage of her for seven hours.
These facts are not supported, but they are widely distributed
as alternative truths, so to speak. So now Letitia James
is investigating this. Letitia James has already said this woman
was raped. Pretend, Ann, that you were representing one of
(19:49):
these seven boys. Maybe they will have collective attorneys representing
the totality of them. What would you do? How would
you try to handle this? Because it feels like, to me,
it is almost a certainty that they're going to try
to come up with a reason to charge them with crimes.
And then they can blame the jury if the jury
ultimately doesn't convict because they're male and they are the
(20:12):
bad guys in the Democrat Party worldview.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
No, that's right. And in fact, I did have a
couple of these cases. This is how we got the
Violence Against Women Act declared unconstitutional. It was two cases,
black athletes being accused by, I think it was both times,
white female athletes of rape. And in both cases, it
was because... The men they had had sex with were
(20:39):
not particularly gentlemanly about it the next day and were
heard joking about it. This was the one I particularly
worked on, joking about it in the lunchroom. And at
that point, much like... much like the alleged victim here.
I mean, it took her three weeks to report this.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
And it all came out because she didn't get invited
to the Halloween party. They took the invitation back. If
they had just let her come to the Halloween party,
none of this might have happened. Sorry to cut you off,
but that is evidently the impetus.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
I think it's a lot.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
I think it's a lot more than what had happened
to her reputation. Although she's claiming, oh, everybody behaves this
way now. It became very clear to her that everyone
did not behave that way. She was being looked at
as a whore. She was embarrassed about it. And, you know,
much like Tawana Brawley didn't want to tell her father
she had been out all night with men. I mean,
(21:30):
this happens all the time when girls don't want to
tell their boyfriends or their father's that they've been having sex,
they claim rape, and here it's the entire campus thinking
that she's a whore. And I think so far what
I've heard from the attorneys is actually pretty good. I
thought it was hilarious that one of the guys, not hilarious,
but a serious point to make, one of the guys
(21:53):
is accusing her of rape or hostile behavior. you know,
sexual assault because he says she, I don't know, she
tried to or did, I don't know, perform oral sex
or do something with him without his consent. And he
was intoxicated. That's what it was. He was intoxicated and
(22:13):
she performed an act on him that he did not
consent to. Plus, which he couldn't consent because he was intoxicated.
I mean, you already see the defense. And again, why
haven't we seen the full six page statement? Why haven't
we seen all of the texts? I think we should
be suspicious of that because the small amount that is
leaked shows that, of course, the case wasn't brought. They
(22:36):
took no for an answer. She took the drugs consensually.
She consensually engaged in this orgy. And the only time
she reported it as rape was when it was apparently
it was all over the campus by the next morning.
And she woke up finding out that everybody was talking
about her behavior.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Ann Coulter with us now. Unsafe is her substack, guys.
She does fantastic work. And you should go check it out.
Speaker 8 (23:01):
Subscribe.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Look at her Rumble, a show on Rumble. And take
me to, if you would, the politics of this, because
you got the governor of New York, who is a
verified imbecile, the attorney general of New York, who is
a verified imbecile. But they are seizing upon this. They're
holding press conferences. They are you know, this is. This
is AOC is talking about this everything. Is this just
(23:24):
because Democrats are insane or is this because there's an
election in 30 days and they think this will mobilize
some of the, you know, emotionally unstable, very online true
crime women or something like what.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Is it more than that? They're crazy or is it? No,
they're just insane. And this is what they do.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
I think it's that they're just insane. I mean, this
is like waving a red cape in front of. liberal woman.
Like I say, they want to have it both ways,
that ourselves, our bodies, abortion is the most important sacrament.
Instead of just telling young women, don't sleep around, don't
get smashed and show up at a fraternity house at
(24:03):
2 a.m. begging for sex with some guy. Have some
respect for yourself. No, no, no. Liberals find that very,
very fusty. They will not do that. So they have
to balance this pushing women into doing insane things that
they should never be doing to, yes, but don't worry
(24:25):
if you change your mind, if something bad happens, we'll
accuse the boys of rape because you have no agency.
You have no responsibility for getting intoxicated.
Speaker 9 (24:34):
I mean, for Pete's sake, more and more and more
between this woman, the botched execution in Tennessee yesterday, who
invokes Lindsay Clancy, because she thinks she shouldn't be held
responsible for this brutal, unbelievably horrific murder she committed back
when she was 18.
Speaker 5 (24:52):
She's been on death row for 30 years. She compares herself. Oh, yes,
but I was abused as a child. Lindsay Clancy can't
be held responsible for murdering her three children. And now
you have a woman voluntarily, by all accounts, by all evidence,
participating in an orgy. And No, she can't be held responsible.
(25:13):
But the guys who were also intoxicated, they could be
held responsible. Oh, my gosh. If any of what liberals
say about women is true, women cannot vote.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Well, this is what I was going to say. This
is my wife's argument. And she is still fired up
about all the Lindsay Clancy. I think now with what
we're seeing from the Cornell case and I think also
with the Tennessee botched execution, what women are arguing is.
is that because they are women, they can't be held
to the same standard as men, which is the same
(25:45):
argument that was made for why women shouldn't be allowed
to vote. So the most progressive thought now is just
an echo of 19th century male positions on why women
shouldn't have been given the right to vote. Do the
women on the left recognize this absurdity?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Are they I.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Mean, do they not see what they have managed to
create here? It is a world where women can't be
trusted to be treated as equal with men.
Speaker 5 (26:14):
I mean, I'd like to see a poll on this,
but this may be why so many women run from
the label feminists. I don't see the advantage to any
male claiming to be a male feminist. Big, big mistake, fellas.
Barking up the wrong tree there.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
By the way, women run, as Buckwell knows, too. If
a man describes himself as a male feminist, it's just
because he thinks that's the only way he can get
you to sleep with him.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Just FYI. These are these are often the worst people
on the planet.
Speaker 8 (26:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
And look at the women that would impress. So I
just think that this liberal women can't get themselves out
of this. They they they are so against normal, traditional morality, normal,
traditional feelings, just common sense. How do you square that
(27:07):
with what's going to happen to women if you if
you unleash them on the world with with. With this
utterly immoral instruction, go have sex with whomever you want to. And,
you know, if you get pregnant, you can just kill
off the baby. And here we're going to be. I mean,
this has gone on for years. I don't know if
it is still going on, but this hanging. Remember Jocelyn
(27:29):
Elders under Clinton wanted to teach kindergartners how to put
on condoms? You had kindergartners and first graders being taught
about fisting. This is a big thing on the left,
that we have to just completely degrade the act of sex.
There should be nothing sacred about it, nothing monogamous. Oh, monogamy,
(27:50):
that is so yesterday's news. Look at the New York Times.
They're basically pushing foursomes and threesomes and polygamy. So how
else are they going to square that behavior with what
will inevitably be a complete disaster for women? It's not
great for men, but a complete disaster for women. And
that's Well, if you change your mind, if you do
(28:12):
end up getting hurt, don't worry, we'll blame the man.
So they've kind of boxed themselves in with this by insisting,
just will not move off their immoral philosophies.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
And we appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
We know a lot of people out there, by the way,
just as we as we leave. Can you imagine if
a man showed up at a sorority house, had multiple threesomes,
consented to it all drugs off the bodies, naked, all
that stuff. And then two years later, he sued for
millions of dollars in damages and claimed that he was
revoking his consent. How we would all respond to that lawsuit.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
That would not have happened at DG.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Ed Coulter, we appreciate the time.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
If you're out there right now and you're thinking to yourself,
I need a little bit more energy, you're headed into
the weekend. Maybe you, like me, have a high school
football game to go to. Maybe you're going to be
watching a lot of college football, the NFL. Maybe you
are traveling. Maybe you've got kids and grandkids that you're
trying to keep up with. That's what Chalk is designed
to do. Use my name, Clay, and a $ 99 bonus product.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Free of charge. They're Lit Powder.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
When you get hooked up at Chalk.com, that's C-H-O-Q.com.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
My name, Clay.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
$ 99 bonus product, free of charge. Awesome for exercising, giving
you a little bit more energy so you can lift
a little bit more weight, as I am trying to
do so I can keep up with my 16-year-old. Chalk.com, C-H-O-Q.
My name, Clay, for the free lit powder. Great for energy.
(29:45):
Sign up today. Chalk.com. Promo code C-L-A-Y.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Smart, fun, sane. The Clay and Buck Show. Here every
day for your listening pleasure. Welcome back into Clay and Buck.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
We are joined now by Stephen Crowder, host of Louder
with Crowder on Rumble. Also the creator of Change My Mind,
where he goes on college campuses and, well, sees that
people can change his mind. He did that, started that
back in 2016. And he also debated on Wednesday night
against Harvard law professor Randall Kennedy over DEI affirmative action.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
A whole bunch of things.
Speaker 8 (30:22):
Mr.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Crowder, looking good. What is that? Is that a pipe?
Speaker 8 (30:26):
It is a pipe.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
You know, it's funny. People forget.
Speaker 10 (30:29):
I taught Joe Rogan how to smoke a pipe my
first appearance like 10 years ago. And I just often
don't really do it on air. But it's been a week,
so I'm going to enjoy it. This is an old
corn cob, by the way.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
All good.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
That's an American thing. It's Friday. There you go.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
It's corn cob Friday here on Clay and Buck, courtesy
of our friend Mr.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Crowder. That's what my lady says. I want to hear
about your Harvard debate. Really interesting. I want to hear
about your Harvard debate.
Speaker 8 (30:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Let's talk about that.
Speaker 8 (30:55):
That's better.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
You want to do Harvard debate?
Speaker 8 (30:57):
No, no.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Well, but actually, I first want to ask you if
I could just for because we're talking about a lot.
Do you think these Cornell kids are going to end
up getting charged by Tish James or are they just
going to make a lot of noise, go through the motions,
but eventually realize that this this wasn't charged by the
prosecutor for a reason the first time?
Speaker 1 (31:15):
What do you think?
Speaker 8 (31:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (31:16):
So we covered it on my show yesterday or the
day before, just to be clear. Now, there have been
some developments, as I understand it, since then. And I've
been doing press appearances and kind of have to do,
you know, on Friday, sometimes have to do some clerical work.
So I don't want to misspeak. But as I understand it,
she was quite the whore.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
So what we.
Speaker 10 (31:34):
Know that matters, like in other words, we say we
don't want to slut shame.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
And we all kind of were on board with that
at one point. We go, OK, well, sure. OK, it's Halloween.
Just like that.
Speaker 10 (31:44):
OK, you're you're you're dressed now in a way that
a prostitute. would have been picked up immediately in just,
you know, the 1980s. But sure, we'll go along with that.
And now we're like, we don't want to slut shame
someone who took ketamine and requested a threesome multiple times
until the break of dawn. Well, then I guess we
just can't slut shame anybody. We have to say that
sluts were a figment of our imagination. Now, there's so
(32:06):
much here that doesn't add up. And there are so
many cases, right? So I err on the side of
whatever it is the left is saying, they're most likely lying.
And by the way, I have about an 80% chance
of getting that right. So if I'm a betting man,
those are the odds that I'm playing. But I've looked
into this case. And of course, the story she's telling now,
it's like Christine Blasey Ford, not the same as the
story she told before. She willingly took drugs, willingly ingested, obviously,
(32:28):
all the alcohol, willingly engaged in the sexual activity, didn't
say that it was an assault early on. And we
saw Mattress Girl at Columbia, Duke Lacrosse, UVA hoax, there's
Tawana Brawley, Trevor Bauer. There are so many of these
I'm at the point where you you really better prove
something that we haven't heard yet. That's that's where I am. And,
you know, hey, if she if she wants to be
(32:49):
a dime store floozy, you know, more power to her.
Just when you decide to wear the title, then, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
You keep it for life.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Stephen, I want to get your take on this because
I think you probably will have an entertaining one. Guy
goes to a sorority house. engages in sexual activity with
seven different women, snorts drugs off their bodies.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
But what do your fantasies have to do with this?
Speaker 8 (33:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Snorts drugs off their bodies, has them doing the same.
Consent says one might imagine he would to all of it.
Everybody on campus finds out about it. A couple of
weeks later, the girls say you can't come to our
Halloween party. He decides that maybe he did not consent.
Two years later, he files a lawsuit saying that if
on retrospect, he did not consent to any of this.
(33:35):
We kind of have a little bit of a test
case on this, because if you remember the investment banker
guy who tried to say that he was the sex
slave of the other investment banker.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
And no one believed it when they saw the photo
of her or the photo of him.
Speaker 10 (33:48):
That was a bitch who was obviously, that was the
one who said she referred to his wife as a
fish head.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Like it was so clear that he was making it
up and said.
Speaker 10 (33:56):
She said my good wife is fish head, but she
doesn't have cannons like this.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I mean, it was an amazing, but everybody made fun
of the guy. Because they said, hey, this sounds like
the best boss ever, right? Basically, you should have just
been her willing sex slave. We would all ridicule a
guy who filed that lawsuit if we sent him to
a sorority house instead of her to a fraternity house.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
If we had truly.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
An equal treatment of men and women under the law,
shouldn't our response be the exact same in terms of
ridiculing her as we would be ridiculing the guy?
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Yeah, and I think you make a very.
Speaker 10 (34:34):
A very important point, but I would say I break
it up into two kind of separate points.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
One, yes, of course, in the eyes of the law,
we should.
Speaker 10 (34:41):
Two, yes, also culturally, meaning the law should apply equally. Culturally,
we should laugh at and shame both groups of people equally.
The problem is this really does stem from culture because
women have been made unaccountable for largely any of their
actions i mean look at lindsey clancy and people will
(35:01):
say oh you're picking the most extreme example no i'm
talking about nine jurors and i'm talking about every poll
that we have at least half give or take of
american women who think she was not guilty and blame
the husband blame the husband right that's an extreme example
but it's one that we all know the same thing
here it's not going to play out any other way
until women start policing themselves if there's something else that
(35:24):
we don't know and if she was slipped the drug
of Look, we all agree.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Actual rapists. I OK. Bury them beneath the railroad tracks.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Bury them underneath the prison. We get that.
Speaker 8 (35:35):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
We're the party that says pedophiles should get the death penalty.
I get it. But the me too thing.
Speaker 10 (35:40):
Screwed all this up where sometimes you just end up
with a bad date or in this case, a lady
who is. Let me put a finer point on it.
She quite this is not just sort of a colloquialism.
She quite literally.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Was asking for it repeatedly repeatedly. But people go, what
are you saying? She was asking for it because she
actually asked for it. Now, what do we do?
Speaker 8 (36:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Like many, many times for many, many people, from what
we understand, Stephen Crowder, guys louder with Crowder. We wanted
to get you to just tell us. It's funny, actually,
I was going to go to Harvard recently to give
a speech. And unfortunately, I got big footed by some
world leader from the U.N. General Assembly or something. So
I would have missed you by a couple of weeks.
I'm really curious then about this. What was the atmosphere
(36:25):
like for this debate? I mean, you know, you went
to Harvard. Were they were they welcoming? Were there safety concerns?
Were there security? And we can get to the substance
of it, too. But I just wonder what the atmosphere
on campus, obviously, a post Charlie Kirkworld, what this is
like now.
Speaker 10 (36:40):
Well, I will tell you, this is something I've been
trying to do for, I mean, people say a decade.
It's really probably more like eight or nine years. The
first team to mine, I think, was in 2017 that
we released publicly. When we started it and we were
doing it on campus, first off, it would just be
in a city. And then kids would say, hey, could
you come do this on my campus? Because no one's
having these conversations. And we always thought, well, great. And
we'd always extend an invitation to professors. The idea, think
(37:02):
of like an old Nintendo game, the final boss professor.
Not only do they never show up, we were usually
being booted from campus for which we had a valid
permit from the professors. And so then we issued a
formal call out to professors publicly and then offered ten
thousand dollars to the charity or department of their choosing.
(37:22):
We had another professor agree to do it at Harvard.
We said, we'll do it wherever you want. You can
pick the moderator and you can pick the rules and
we'll agree to them. She demanded that it not be
live streamed. Danielle Allen, I believe her name, and she
demanded the right to back to the rape retroactively remove
her consent within three days if she didn't like the
way that it went.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
So we said no.
Speaker 10 (37:41):
It moved to UPenn with Professor John Zimmerman. Within days
of the live stream, they said you can't live stream.
So finally, this happened. Professor Kendall Kennedy, Oxford, Princeton, Yale,
Thurgood Marshall, clerked for him and tenured since 1989. You
don't get more qualified than that. And the point was here,
(38:02):
I'll tell you what, I was incredibly intimidated. I've had
people on my show, you know, I've had governors, I've
had senators, I've had other people where there'd be online debates,
but people.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Say, well, yeah, it's not a real debate. You're just
talking with kids on campus. Okay.
Speaker 10 (38:15):
Their territory, their rules, their best. And it's not that
I'm anything formidable. Either their ideas stand up to scrutiny
or they don't. And people can go and watch the
debate and make up their own minds. But there was
a lot of pressure on me on this one. A
college dropout, I guess, didn't do too badly.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
I would say this, and Buck certainly in this camp,
you know I am.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
I've been on your show several times.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
The right or the sane America, because I think it's
about 75% of people, is willing to actually engage in debate.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
You have a.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Different opinion than us. Come on, explain why we're wrong.
I find it somewhat encouraging that this debate even happened
at a place like Harvard.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Do you? I do not that it took 10 years.
Speaker 8 (39:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (39:02):
And I think it'll probably after the way it went down,
it'll probably take another 10. I think I think they
probably had a couple of meetings at Harvard saying we
can't do that again. There was a bomb threat I
found out that day later. It wasn't related to the event.
And then that exact same day, this really could be
a seminal moment. And I don't just say this to
pat myself on the back. Before I went out there
and I was doing preparation, a study was released. that
(39:26):
a custom AI tutor at Harvard, I believe 160 students,
it was a physics class, they compared a group, they
split them into two groups, AI tutor versus those in
an actual hands-on in-person learning environment. And those who used
the AI tutor learned twice as much and completed the
tasks in I think 49 minutes versus 60 minutes. That
happened the same day that, I mean, the debate wasn't
(39:48):
even close. And I don't say that because I obviously
have a bias. I say it because I said in
my opening statement, I told people exactly what he would
do down to the letter.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
He did it anyway.
Speaker 10 (40:02):
And I finished his phrases for him before he could
finish it himself because I knew exactly what he would say.
And again, it's not that it's just this professor. It's
what you'll find from every professor at Harvard teaching these
same ideas. And I've encountered them time and time again.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
I'll tell you this. If one big takeaway... Change my
mind is not debate. Change my mind, you know, is
kind of the first street version. It's rhetoric.
Speaker 10 (40:25):
And when people sit down, we go all the way
through and we don't edit it. If someone's in bad
faith and, you know, going up saying, blah, blah, blah, whatever,
I go, OK, it's time.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
For you to go.
Speaker 10 (40:33):
But I don't boot them because I don't think that's fair.
So in this case, it's OK, we have time. We
have a very clearly drawn line, and I am aiming
to make it very clear that our ideas are better.
It is an actual debate, and it was significantly easier
than sitting down for five hours with all comers because I.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Don't think– I'm going to do to you what I
always tell my wife not to do to me, which
is after three hours of live radio.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
She's like, what did you talk about today? I'm like, oh, God, please.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Anything but the summation of three hours of radio right
after radio. Can you just give me the– is this
guy just history of racism, but also we need to
give it to Hispanics for no apparent reason, but also
Native Americans. That's why we need DEI because of the reservations.
I mean, what was– was it just the most kind
(41:21):
of rote, basic left-wing liberalism stuff?
Speaker 1 (41:25):
And what was his POV? And here's the thing. He
is more reasonable. He is more moderate.
Speaker 10 (41:30):
But that's not enough to change the tone at Harvard.
It's 95% of political donations go to Democrats. You'll find
numbers as high as 99. I always use the conservative numbers.
If you look at commencement speakers at Ivy Leagues in general,
there was a Johnson and across 52 schools, Harvard included.
It was at least a three, usually about a seven
(41:52):
to one ratio of left to right for 36 straight years.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
They had a DEI pledge.
Speaker 10 (41:59):
And what I said he would do is the left
will act as though a pause in federal funding over
teaching discriminatory practices is the same as burning books.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
And it's not.
Speaker 10 (42:08):
He will chalk it up to being, you know, an
organic representation. San Francisco will give you close to 80-20.
There's a DEI pledge. That's a litmus test. And this
man will condemn the practice to be reasonable, but defend
the institution anyway. And that's exactly what he did. There
was no pivot. And this is the best they have
to offer. And a very, very nice guy. And I
(42:29):
have all the respect in the world for him. But
my point is, hey, if a college dropout who people
have said has no business being there in the halls
of academia... with the elite, can do what we did,
that means that other people out there can too. I
hope the kids see this and anytime someone says, well,
you know what, we should be, we want the intelligent folks.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
You know why Barack Obama was president? Let's be honest. Harvard.
Speaker 10 (42:51):
A junior senator with a voting record that was largely
just present. We don't even have his records unsealed. The
only head of the Harvard Law Review who went completely unpublished,
by the way.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
What do they always say? He's really smart. Harvard, you
know what I've always said? He's smart. I don't think
he's that smart. I say the same thing about this professor.
He's smart. He's not as smart as people tell you.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Well, the credentialism factories, Stephen, we could do a whole
show just on this with you, because I've seen this
up close and personal in a whole bunch of different ways.
But he went to no shade at Occidental, but he
was at Occidental before and then suddenly gets into Columbia
and then suddenly gets into Harvard Law School. And, you know,
the presidents before him who ran show shared their SATs.
And then that became you weren't allowed to say, well,
(43:34):
why can't we see this president's presidential candidates SATs?
Speaker 1 (43:38):
That was considered.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
Racist so the point is harvard has been doing this
for a long time putting the stamp of intellectual elitism
on people who actually are not in no meaningful way
smarter than the people that they think they.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Should lord over and rule over so uh we're by
the way we're.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Linking the debate up on the website and uh let's
come back and let's come back and get you to
hang some other time we really appreciate it keep up
the good work i appreciate it thank you very much
i appreciate it i know it's friday so you guys
probably want to get to uh having some, you know, make,
make an old corn cob Friday, go, uh, go have
a good old, good old time with the ladies and
tell them no summaries of the last three hours, just
(44:14):
corn cabin. I'm going to say Steven's orders, honey, you know,
Steven's orders, corn cob pipe smoking.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
All right.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Here is a little trade craft from back in the
day when I worked in Intel. Uh, when you want
to get to know someone, you start where they sleep,
then who they love, then their routine, right? So that
used to take a team of analysts and I was
one of them these days. A data broker already did
all that on you. Your home address, your cell, your relatives,
packaged and for sale to anyone with a credit card.
(44:41):
No badge, no security clearance needed, no questions asked. In
my old world, we'd call that a security breach. Today,
we call it a business model. If you want online privacy,
your best move is to go dark.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
They want you to have all your stuff online.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
You don't want that. Remove your information from the web.
Incogni does this for you. More than 420 data brokers
and people search sites. get notified by Incogni on your behalf.
You don't want all your personal info out there. Then
they keep inspecting those sites to have your info taken down.
Make sure they keep it that way. Go to incogni.com
slash buck. This is just necessary for the protection of
(45:16):
your personal data online. Incogni, I-N-C-O-G-N-I dot com slash buck.
Get 60% off incogni.com slash buck.
Speaker 7 (45:26):
Laugh learn hang with the guys right there when you
need them most clay and buck just preset them on
the iheart app.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
All right welcome back into clay and buck here uh
we got a lot of talkbacks that we want to
get to and also we'll be joined here i believe
shortly by a special guest but first up a little
bit of shade over shaving From Kevin in Phoenix who
listens on KFYI, this is A on the Talkbacks.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Hey, Buck, Clay's an idiot.
Speaker 6 (45:52):
I shave every day, and I guarantee you I have
just as much testosterone as he does.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
What a boob.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
But maybe he threw that in at the end because
he knows about your fondness for the First Amendment and boobs,
you know? So at least it was kind of a
high five at the end there for you, Clay.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
That the average bearded man has a higher testosterone level
than the average non-bearded man.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
I don't even think that's remote.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Of all the opinions that I could have and have
shared on here, I think that's one of the least
controversial ones that I've ever had. We've got some funny
talkbacks continuing, by the way.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
Yeah, here we go. Mary from Florida listens on WFLA.
This is C, hit it.
Speaker 11 (46:49):
When I got out of the military, I went on
a job interview for an avionics company. I did not
have a jacket, but I had a nice skirt, a
nice button-down shirt, and heels to go to this interview.
The owner of the company did not hire me despite
my qualifications because I didn't have a blazer on, didn't
have one with me.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
But it was fine.
Speaker 11 (47:10):
I ended up getting a better job with the DOD
later who didn't care that I had a jacket.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
We were talking about this for people who don't know.
Real quick.
Speaker 8 (47:19):
Right.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
Yesterday we were talking about things that have gotten you
nixed from a job that involved dress code or something
like that. I want to know, was she told it
was because of the blazer, or is she thinking it's
because she didn't have a blazer? That's a big difference, right?
Because you don't really know. All right, we got right
now Dr. Mark Siegel, Fox News Channel's senior medical analyst,
(47:41):
author of the book, new book, The Angels Among Us,
How God's Messengers Play a Role in Healing.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
Dr.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Siegel, you're a man of science, but you're also talking
about God and angels here.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Talk to us, my friend. What's going on?
Speaker 8 (47:53):
Well, let me tell you, Buck, what this is about
is the idea that coincidences are never really coincidences. That essentially,
and Carl Jung said this, the famed psychiatrist, that they're meaningful,
that things come together in a certain way. And almost
all the chapters in the book have that.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
And when you have that.
Speaker 8 (48:16):
there are angels involved who make those miracles happen. And
those angels are sometimes real angels that God sends from above,
and they're ethereal. As in the case of Sam Rodriguez's
daughter in this book, Pastor Sam, he's praying for angels,
and she says, Dad, what are these shadows in the room?
And suddenly she recovers from COVID in 2020 from her
(48:38):
ventilator where she was not expected to live. That's actual angels.
But then there are angels as messengers, like when Ben Hall,
our own senior correspondent Ben Hall, was– you know, was
after he was in that explosion of that missile in
Ukraine and his cameraman, Pierre, died. And he wrote about
this in his book. But I told parts of this
(48:59):
that he didn't write about, which he told me in
an interview where, yes, he saw his daughter as an angel,
but he didn't tell anyone that his dead father, who
he had just buried, also came to him as a vision.
And as he was crawling out of the car, get this,
Ukrainian special forces was driving by and they didn't see him. Well,
(49:20):
five miles down the road, they had car trouble and
they had to turn around and come back to get
the car fixed. And in coming back, he raised his hands. Hey, hey,
we're down here. We're down here. He saw them, saved
his life. Our senior security correspondent, Jennifer Griffin, said, save
our allies to him. And they were driving across Ukraine
(49:40):
in the middle of the night to match up with
the prime minister of Poland, who just happened to be
in that area, and Ben Hall was taken out of
there and saved as a result. Those coincidences and those
angels I just mentioned, some of them actual angels, some
of them angels that came to him, saved his life.
Ronald Reagan, I write about in this book, in 1981,
(50:01):
after he was shot, Jerry Parr in the car was
the Secret Service guy who dove on him. He saw
blood in his mouth. He thought he had injured his ribs.
He did not know he was shot. He brought him
to the hospital rather than back to the White House thinking, uh-oh,
I caused rib damage. He gets to the hospital. There's
no wheelchairs. The president walks 45 yards towards the hospital
(50:23):
and then collapses. They bring him in, and then they
realize he's been shot in the lung. In the ER, Dr.
David Gens, who I interviewed, this amazing trauma surgeon, says
that they actually were taking care of Jerry Baker, the...
the press secretary over Reagan because that's how doctors do triage.
(50:45):
But when he was in the hospital, he felt nurses
all around him, some of them actual angels, some just
nurses holding his hand. They figured out he lost a
lot of blood. They got him into the OR, all
amazing interventions on the part of angels. When he recovered,
Get this part of the story. This is in the book.
Secret Service has to go into the OR. They've got
(51:07):
their guns bulging out of their scrubs. They've got gum
shoes bulging out of their shoe covers. They've got hair
coming out of their hairnets. But they have to be
stationed fidgeting in the OR. When he comes out... GW
has him, and Walter Reed wants him. He's the commander-in-chief.
And they say to Nancy Reagan, get them the hell
out of GW. We want them. At Walter Reed, she's
(51:30):
ready to transfer him, but GW hurries up and paints
the entire floor so the president will stay. So the
man just has half his lung removed, and he's sitting
there in a freshly painted floor with fumes of paint
going into his lungs. Dr. David Gens was the surgeon
that oversaw his care, a true angel. throughout his hospital stay. Wow.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
This is amazing stories. And those are all very positive.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
I hate to go dark here, but if you believe
in angels, do you also believe in demons?
Speaker 8 (52:04):
You bet I do. And the book starts with that
because I'm riding my bicycle across the country, Clay, at
the age of 20. And I open a door to
another world And when I'm about at the border to
the United States, a black Cadillac comes to me and
literally breaks my bicycle in half. And I thought, this
(52:24):
is the end of my dream trip. But a policeman.
takes the bicycle and spends all night welding it back
into condition where I could ride with one gear across
the Mackinac Bridge, across into the United States, across the
Mackinac Bridge. That was an angel. The devil was the
man in the Cadillac. The devils provoke us, the demons
(52:44):
provoke us, and the angels save us from the demons.
And that's a huge part of this book. There's evil,
and then there's God's saviors that come and rescue us.
In fact, that story I told you about Pastor Sam,
when his daughter was saved in the ICU, what I
didn't tell you was that the angel of death was there, too.
She saw that dark presence looming over her bed, and
(53:07):
then she saw the other angels, and they saved her. Dr.
Speaker 3 (53:12):
Mark Siegel of Fox News. The book, it's coming out,
available for pre-order now. So you can get your pre-order copy.
It'll get right sent to you. The Angels Among Us,
How God's Messengers Play a Role in Healing.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
Dr. Siegel, very interesting. Appreciate you, sir. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 8 (53:26):
By the way, Bob Dylan's in the book, too, Buck.
I don't know if you're a Bob Dylan fan, but
he's in the book. Both of his conversions to Christianity,
to Orthodox Judaism. He had an angel named Larry Kramer
who was in a wheelchair who dove off of a
cliff and ended up paralyzed by praying God saved him.
And he was Dylan's good luck charm throughout decades. And
(53:47):
he brought him to all his concerts.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
Got the book. Lots of great stories in it, guys. Dr. Siegel,
thank you again.
Speaker 8 (53:53):
Great to be on with you guys. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
Look, the team at the International Fellowship of Christians and
Jews were in Israel three years ago when Hamas terrorists
terrorized the country, killing 1,200 and taking 250 more as hostages.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
They were already on the ground.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Because of the amazing humanitarian work they've been doing there
for decades, including helping elderly Holocaust survivors. On that day,
they immediately mobilized all their efforts to help in the
aftermath of October 7th. Next week is the anniversary of
that horrific day. and the IFCJ has started a movement
called Flags of Fellowship. You will see thousands of Israeli
(54:30):
flags on full display in solidarity with the Jewish population,
remembering the terrorist attack by Hamas. The IFCJ saw firsthand
the loss of life, the sense of destruction, the worst
day in Israel's history. They don't want anyone to forget
what happened there. You can participate as well by donating
$ 25 today to plant your flag and boldly show your
(54:50):
support for Israel. and the Jewish people, certainly in light
of the attempted hijacking. We know that terror attacks in
the Holy Land and around the world are continuing. The
IFCJ has created a special website, joinfof.org. That's the word
join and the letters fof.org. One more time, joinfof.org.
Speaker 8 (55:17):
Yep. Smart. Fun.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
Sane. It's the Clay and Buck Show. Here today.
Speaker 8 (55:24):
Here tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
Every day for your listening pleasure.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show News
Hosts And Creators
Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
Show Links
WebsiteNewsletterPopular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.