March 4, 2026 • 29 mins
Buck Sexton joins David Rutherford to break down the psychological mechanics behind mass delusion and modern propaganda. From Pavlov’s early conditioning experiments to Maoist thought reform and Nazi Germany’s systematic psychological manipulation, Buck explains how trauma, isolation, and identity construction can reshape entire societies. The conversation explores how these same patterns may appear in modern media, politics, education, and technology. If you’ve ever wondered how intelligent people adopt demonstrably false beliefs, this episode unpacks the historical playbook. This is a deep dive into psychological warfare, mass conditioning, and how individuals can resist the pull of collective hysteria.
Sponsor: Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/
Timestamps:
00:00 - Preview
01:11 - Watching Society Go Crazy
05:35 - Brainwashing & The Foundation of Mass Delusion
10:35 - Pavlov & Trauma As A Neurological Reset
17:58 - How Brainwashing Continues Today
22:00 - Sponsor: Black Rifle Coffee
23:23 - How Do We Fight Back Against Manufactured Delusion?
27:48 - Where To Find Buck’s Best Selling Book
Next Steps: - 🏫 Get coaching by David Rutherford: https://www.froglogicinstitute.com/ - 📕 Get David's novel, The Poet Warrior: https://www.ballastbooks.com/ballast-bookstore/the-poet-warrior - 📰 Sign up for David's weekly newsletter for free coaching tips, updates, and more: https://davidrutherfordletter.substack.com/
Follow Clay & Buck on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/clayandbuck
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
There are people that are engaged in what is clearly
a mass hysteria.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
You have to call it a delusion.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
They use a playbook of trauma to make you abandon
what you had believed before and replace it with new belief.
So this is how this stuff all ties in. And
now you say, well, Buck, why do we care about
this stuff today?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yeah? Well, I mean, they're not beating you with truncheons.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
But you go to a college campus and it's like, hey,
tell that purple hair, dude, it's actually a chick and
use the prefer pronouns, or we're going to kick you
out of school.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
So it's almost like there's been a programming already, and
now what takes place next is really dependent on people
whether or not they have the understanding that this is
the reality. So proud to welcome the great Buck Sexton
(00:52):
to the show. Back to the show. He was our
first guest. I'm sorry it's been so long since we've
had you on. And then also, once again, it is
Buck who who gave us the opportunity to come underneath
the Clay and Buck network. And just man, once again,
thank you for that. All right, manufacturing delusion, dude, when
(01:13):
did this pop into your head and and why would
you ever want to tackle the magnitude of this issue?
Speaker 1 (01:21):
So brotherly, it was first of all, thank you for
having me, and thank you for making me look good
for you being my draft choice for the Clay and
Buck podcast network. People are like, he's doing a really
good show and the audience loves it and keeps growing,
and I'm like, there we go, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Bus Gollo Swagger knows the talent.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
So how I came up with this book was after COVID,
And I mean like really after like when pretty much everybody.
I just kept walking around saying to myself or you know,
you know, thinking or muttering out loud, how did these
people go so insane?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Like what what is this? How does this happen?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
And the more I thought about it, also, I was like, well,
you know the craziness of some of these people that
you saw during COVID, where they were like policing other people,
believing wildly obviously untrue stuff like double Mask and all.
By the way, this is not a COVID book, right,
but that's just kind of the you know, the germ
of the thought, the trigger, Yeah exactly. I was like,
(02:21):
but then you also think about BLM and you think
about some of the transgender stuff. It's like there are people,
it's not everyone, but there are these mobs, masses that
are engaged in what is clearly a mass hysteria, and
they believe things that are so evidently false that you
have to call it a delusion, right, because there's no facts,
(02:44):
there's nothing. You can't present them with evidence to show
them that they're wrong. That's a delusion, right. So this
is this is where I said, well, hold on a second,
where else does that happen? And I was like, this
happens in totalitarian societies. In fact, the entirety of day
to day life at the hands of a state, whether
it's a Soviet Union, MAOIs China, UH, North Korea, Many,
(03:06):
it's et Set, a Nazi Germany UH is rooted in
mandatory or manufactured delusions. So I started this this journey
into how do they do that? Like what what is
it that are the And I don't mean how in
the most broad terms. I wanted to know, like what
are the tactical like what's the TTPH got into.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Things like.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
You know, UH, forced confession, UH, isolation, identity construction, and
really the book is just looking at these things that
are done to people to effectively bring about craziness in individuals,
but on a mass scale and the masses, and that's
how they manufacture a delusion.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
And in doing so I came across Mirlu, who you
are the only dude I have to give credit. But
I've done dozens and dozens of interviews. You know, we're
still in like the opening opening salvo of media and
I'm just like already, I'm like, oh my god, no
one else has ever heard of this guy.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Rut When I told because I talked to you.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
When I was writing this book, jus Merlou was a
psychiatrist for your audience, I know, you know, yeah, he's
a psychiatrist who he changed his name from Abraham in
occupied ned the Netherlands Holland during the Second World War
to evade the Nazis and made his way to England
and joined the Dutch army in exile. But he was
(04:29):
a trained psychiatrist, and so he's like, you know what
I could do here. I could help in information operations,
psychological operations. I can debrief Nazi SS prisoners to learn
what how did you do this? Like, how did you
psychologically corrupt the whole society. And he wrote a book
called The Rape of the Mind that's a particularly seminal
work on this issue, where he looks at this is
(04:51):
how you break people down, this is how you can
create mass delusion. And so that I mean ment to
side is his term the killing of the brain.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
That's the second chapter of the book.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
And I look at gender theory and gender identity where
it's like, Okay, I understand we're not all in camps
and that you know they don't have like guards with
with band ask or throats. But you're supposed to say
something that's obviously false, and if you don't, you get fired.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
That's a coercive psychological approach.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Right, You're supposed to say, oh, no, that that's not
a penis, that's a vagina. No, it's not assigned at birth.
In fact, the whole notion of assigned at birth is preposterous.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Dave.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
You've got kids, you can no longer before birth, whether
it's a boy.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Or a girl. So that makes the whole thing makes
no sense.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Well, I think you're I mean, first off, I am
so happy that you tackled this right. A lot of
people have tackled whether it was you know, RFK Junior's
book The Real Anthony Fauci and the manipulation of ideas
around our science industries, because one of the components that
Mi or Lou talks about, right is when you capture
(05:57):
different industries or in particular science or governments and and
and it's everybody knows that governments use propaganda as to manipulate.
But I think what we're seeing now, although like you said,
we're not in a totalitarian state, but the conditioning has
improved to such a magnificent level that you know, through
(06:20):
this thing right here, you know, I'm I'm a slave
in in the conditioning. And for me it was for
me it was really I think it was doctor Robert
Malone right when he went on Rogan the first time,
and he called he talked about the phrase mass formation
psychosis as a result of the COVID mania, and he
(06:42):
quoted a friend of him, Mattias Desmond, who also wrote
a book post COVID h called the Psychology of Totalitarianism.
So as I started to research this, I immediately found
uh Yo Shmirlou's book uh and I was. I read
that and it was the roadmap.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yes, yeah, ju just mearly.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
There's a reason why he became a phenomenon in the fifties.
And by the way, that was right at the time
where the term brainwashing. And just to be clear for everyone,
like why do I want you to get this book?
There's a lot of right wing slop books. I'll just
be honest, there are there's a lot of right wing
slop books. You pay someone fifteen grand and it's like
here's how I think we can save America and how
much I love Trump.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
You're learning nothing.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Okay, that's actually eighteen months to research and write this book,
every word of it myself. I had five months of
PRB or PCRB by the way they call it Nowadaves
because Dave knows from the CIA side.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I had to get cleared.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
For this because for the first time, and you know,
I'm very clear by there's stuff like I was like
I was an analyst or whatever. But this is about
being an analyst of things. This isn't about being some
one door kicker. I leave the doorkicking to you, ruight.
But I talk about my first yeah, my first CIA
assignment to Nigeria, which I had never talked about before,
(08:01):
which was wild stuff, because I was essentially sent to
a place no one wanted to go. And they they
almost pulled me when they realized how junior. They're like,
what are you? Sometimes they're like what the hell are
you doing here? Giving the stuff that I was getting.
And there was one guy who, let's just say at
home base there in Nigeria, who just took me under
(08:22):
his wing, who is a senior dude, and he's like,
you're smart and capable, You're gonna come with me everywhere.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
So I went with him to every meeting.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
I went all over the place, all over the country,
looking for and looking at really the origins of what
became Boko Haram and and they were all it was already,
the different mosques and the way that they were, the
way that they were isolating people from even the even
the Islamic community around them, the way they were doing
identity construction, you know. So so I saw it sort
(08:52):
of in the earliest phase. And then I talk a
little bit about some of the research into like Jihattist
suicide bomber rat lines in Iraq and Pakistan.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Pakistan was the worst, right, what twenty five thousand madrasas
I remember in five when I went back, there was
an expos I forget it was the a BBC or something.
There was a reporter, I forget what her name is,
award winning reporter, and she they led her into the Madrasas.
And that's exactly what it was. It was the systematic conversion. Right.
(09:24):
You go into Queta, you say, hey, you've got ten kids,
I'll take your eight to thirteen year old I'll bring
them in, I'll teach them how to Arabic, I'll teach
them the Quran. And then over time, you know, they
created what something like one hundred thousand suicide bombers, a
jahanas Mulah's missiles they were called. Yeah, So it's fascinating
(09:48):
to me that as such a young analyst in really
this profound time of mind manipulation, in particular within Islam itself,
you know that that triggered this thing that has stayed
with you to now where you know, as one of
the top commentators in the world, you are so connected
(10:11):
to witnessing the other side or whatever, the other side
of totalitarianism and now to say, all right, I'm gonna
invest a really profound amount of time when you had
a lot of things going on in your life by
way during that time. So yeah, so like when you
when we were on the phone and you were like, dude,
I'm writing a book about this. I was like, Yes,
(10:34):
this thing's gonna rock, man.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So thank you man, And I appreciated your support all
all along as I was doing it. And uh, and
I'll tell you you know what Rus said to me.
He's like, he's like, dude, you're diving into Mirrorlu. This
thing is gonna be awesome. Okay, So he knew and
that was like two years ago. This book took a
long time to get to get to where it is now.
But you know, you talk about, uh, what was going
on with the Madrasas in Pakistan, for example, But this
(10:59):
is the thing. Say, there's like this very specific process. Well, yeah,
there is. And that's what Merlu saw. By the way,
so did Robert Liften, who in the third chapter of
the book brainwashing, brainwashing for the audience. And there's a
lot of this kind of stuff in the book that
you should know, just the history of the things. That's
an American term. It's a neologism from the Mandarin for washmind,
(11:20):
which is actually what they were saying among the Chinese
in the early days of Mao is China, the early
days of the Cultural Revolution, was happening to people who
would be released. They're like, this person has had washmind.
We call it brainwashing because of Edward Hunter. He was
a journalist who came up with that. They had a
term for it, though the Chinese thought reform. It was
the reforming of your thoughts, and it was very systematic.
(11:44):
Where do they get it from the chi coms? They
got it from the Soviets. And now you want to
know where did the Soviets come up with some of
this stuff? The father of conditioning was Ivan Pavlov. Now
Pavlov is not a kami, but the first chapter I
get into is or rather I should say, you know,
recognize that the failures of communism, although he also benefited
(12:07):
from their system once they realized he was too important
a scientist to just like, let's starve in the streets,
because that was actually something that they're worried about, or
he was worried about at one point because of all
the failures of the Leninis system early on.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
But Pavlov, it's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Pavlov is doing the first scientific studies really of external stimuli.
Taken in by the brain affecting the body directly.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
People knew that.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
You know, they look at this, but this is the
earliest word he's proving because of the gastric secretions of dogs.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
And this is where we get to the buzzer.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
People have this whole thing about like Pavlov was great
at training dogs, he wasn't training dogs. He was running
scientific experiments to see what the brain body connection was.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
And this correlation between the limbic response right, your parasympathetic
in your sympathetic nervous diet. I'm the dynamic integration of
those two things based on stimula, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
And so if you have enough of a stimulus from
the outside that over time is repeated and the brain
picks it up, even subconsciously, can there be a physiological response.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Of course, the answer was yes. But what was fascinating?
Speaker 1 (13:21):
And I talk about this in the book which is
called Manufacturing Delusion, And I want all the pipe hitters
and snake heaters and ruts, audience, you will like this book,
all right, you know absolutely this is analysts analyze, damn it.
This is what I do. And this is a good book.
And you guys will appreciate it, you want to.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
It's funny you bring that up because like when I
when you when you were telling me about it, like
for for me and I and you know, it's it's
it's sometimes it's difficult to acknowledge this, but we experienced
this and going through buds right Like I remember in
Hell week, like third night, You're sitting at late night
chaw or whatever it was, and an instructor would come
(13:58):
over and put like a glass of a cold ice
water next to you, just set it down, just put
it right down next to you, and I'd look at
it and immediately start shaking, like because I had developed
hydrophobia from being immersed in the water. And that was
the first time I was like, holy shit, I've just
been conditioned through the integration of this and it happened
(14:21):
like that, happened like that.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
So let me take you back to the huge Eureka
movement moment in nineteen twenty four, and in some people's minds,
it's kind of the scientific beginnings of brainwashing as a
as a thing that will be pursued, although again that
was not Pavlov's intent, but because of the revelation by
the way they had spies in all of his labs.
The Soviets were paying lenin. They were incredibly attuned to
(14:47):
Ivan Pavlov what he was doing, and they ended up
funding his stuff and giving him his own little scientific village.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
But you know, he was kind of using them. They
were using him, it was.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
And by the way I became I corresponded with the
premiere academic historian of Pavlov, a Professor Totis, just so
I was like, I need to understand who this guy
really was. He's a written incredible, like one thousand page biography,
this guy, and he's a professor emeritus and JOHNS Hopkins anyway,
but I talked to him just so I could kind
of get, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Squared away, and I would ask him questions.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
And so Pavlaw in the lab there's a flood, okay,
And the flood in nineteen twenty four in Saint Petersburg,
it's just the whole city's basically just getting some merged
underwater because the river's overflown.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Well guess what.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
The dogs, of course, are on the ground floor and
there are secually essentially these cages like kennel like situation,
and the dogs realize this is really bad. Right, we're
toast and they're they're all barking. They're all barking. You know,
you're a dog guy. I'm a dog guy.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Get like I get like saddest thing, Me too, Me too.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
However, the lab attendants were able to just break in
it though, So the dogs were they when they got in,
and this is according to the records. Their snouts were
above the water. They were literally just peeking up, just
able to get so you could, I mean so they
knew that, you know that there was not much time left.
They were dying. Basically, they're about to die. Lab technician
(16:06):
gets in and saves all the dogs.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
But here's what happens.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
These dogs have been conditioned for years, rut the conditioning
in about you know, a third of the dog's gone,
just gone, all of a sudden. Now the buzzer, nothing
happens all of a sudden. Now some of them that
were particularly friendly are really aggressive. Some that are really
shy are really bold. It flicked switches in these animals
(16:32):
that that endured trauma over hours as the water rose.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Brainwashing, brainwashing.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And now you see when you go into a maoist
thought reform sell, what do they do to people, They
separate you from everyone else. They force you into false confession,
they drop all session and can they do struggle sessions.
They beat you, they say you're not sincere enough, even
what you say, even when you say what you're supposed
to say. They use a playbook of trauma to make
(17:04):
you abandon what you had believed before and replace it
with new belief. So this is how this stuff all
ties in. And now you say, well, buck, why do
we care about this stuff today?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah? Well, I mean, they're not beating you with truncheons.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
But you go to a college campus and it's like, hey,
tell that purple hair dude it's actually a chick and
use the preferred pronouns, or we're going to kick you
out of school, or we're gonna say you're a bigot,
or we're gonna say whatever. Even Mirlu said, the tactics
are the same, if the force used is different, right,
interesting the same?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, all right? So where do you think why? Why has?
Speaker 3 (17:37):
All? Right, obviously it's easy to go back and reflect
on the twentieth century, right and say it's so obvious
when you look at all of those regimes, you look
like you look at at that manufactured delusion and the
systematic breakdown of the human psyche right through these conditioning mechanisms.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
How does it continue to permit me? Like, would you
believe it?
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Is it possible that the educational system is the easiest
conduit into the American public? Is it politics that does it?
Is it the media that does it? Like I mean,
you are this is a.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Great question, and not just because I like you, but
this is something I get into a lot.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Think of this, Think.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Of this as as you would the variations that occur. Again,
whether it's I mean that the subtitle of the book
Manufacturing Delusion is my book, which everybody should go get
a copy of who's watching this podcast because it's already
a bestseller and you will love the book and you'll
want to give it to people. But it's how the
left uses brainwashing and doctrination and propaganda against you. Those
(18:41):
are all variations on a theme, depending, you know, with
some some shifts in the tactics and the force used.
But they're all trying to bring about the same thing,
which is a molding of your neural processes in your
mind and your brain. And so it's all dependent upon
what what the entity is that you're you know, are
(19:02):
you trying to make somebody uh are you? Are you
operating within a totalitarian society, or are you bringing somebody
into a cult, or are you trying to bring somebody
into a political idealogy. I get into cults in the book,
by the way, and which.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Cults did you find?
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Which cults that did you think we're the best examples
of that?
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I mean, umschin Rikio is wild, dude.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
It is these are educated, otherwise completely law abiding and
normal Japanese people who are paying thousands of dollars for
drops of water that they're told are bath water of
the dude who then wants them to use sharin gas
and kill everybody.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
I mean, it is just nuts. And but you go again.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
You get into the processes of how do you convince people?
How do you know? What promises do you make? How
do you separate them from family?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
How do you know? How do you do these things
to uh? What? You know?
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Psychologists, by the way, they have terms too. They'll say
it's coercive persuasion is the broad term. But so what
are the different tools of coercive persuasion that are used?
And the thing is, if you ever watch a documentary.
I mean, like, neither you nor I was able to
go to North Korea. But North Korea is effectively a
cult state. The whole state is a cult. It's just
(20:18):
as totalitarian force. But it's all built along the same
ideas of this is a cult leader. Everybody does exactly
what they're told. Everybody's brainwashed and you know, and that's
what you get. And so I mean sort of the
two takeaway concerns that I have that I want ever
understand is one, this exists already, meaning that you have
(20:38):
communists China where they control the thoughts of the Chinese
people to a large degree. I mean not entirely, but
to a degree that is that is authoritarian, if not totalitarian,
And some would argue, by the way, it's totalitarian, right,
but it's absolutely authoritarian mind control in this in the
second biggest country and second biggest economy in the world today.
So this isn't like, oh, but what if the all
(21:00):
the all the whales die and the and the sky's
you know, turn purple or something, right, this is real.
And the other thing is that Amirlu's warning even from
Rape of the Mind of the fifties, He's like, if
you don't think that this can happen, meaning mass yester
aia through mind control in Western says, look at Nazi Germany.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
I didn't realized Nazi Germany was pre Nazi Germany even
after World War One. Artistic, literary uh, free expression guaranteed
in the constitution, everything else.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
The hub of thought, right, the hub of modern thought.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I mean, one of the most sophisticated.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Someone argued maybe the moos sophisticated cultural and scientific.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Hub in the world.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
And then it goes into the absolute grips of of
evil madness. There was a process that people were put
through that was it was done to them and done
on and people did it to others. And that is
how I mean, I viewed as the biggest threat to
humanity ruts. So that's really why I wanted to write
the book, which is called Manufacturing Delusion, and everybody should
(21:59):
buy a copy of it.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I love it all.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
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Speaker 3 (23:24):
The one thing that I think is interesting is that
correlation to a society that doesn't that potentially doesn't seem vulnerable.
And when you go back and you really look at
at the profound impact of World War One on the
German people, in particular German males, right, and the how
hammered they were, which put them into that revolutionary spirit, right,
(23:48):
and to then to begin to contort through this great
oriator who was, you know, the most angry about everything,
and he picked the you know, he picked Jewish people
to be the outlet for the focus of the propaganda,
and you know, and then you see, like right now,
over the last twenty five plus years, you know, you
(24:08):
have a really impacted group of us that served in
the GWAT right to tox you know, Iraq, Afghanistan. What
was the end result. So there's some you know, there's
some demoralization there. Then you've been going after young men,
convincing them that they're hostile to the world, they're oppressors.
(24:29):
So it's almost like there's been a programming already and
now what takes place next is really dependent on people
whether or not they have the understanding that this is
the reality, this is how it works, and how easily
people can be manipulated towards these radical ideologies. How do
(24:49):
you think we move forward other than buying your book
manufacturing to loser at bucksx dot com. Right, and how
do we how do we prepare right gen Z to
be able to begin to fight back against the potentiality
of this manufactured delution.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
So there's a great lesson also from Pavlov's labs that
he always he struggled with but also took a bit
of heart from, which was that human beings are far
more complicated in their neurochemistry and they're wiring, if you will,
than dogs are, although dogs are actually you know his
two dog lovers. Dogs are very emotional and can be connected.
(25:31):
But even even under the even under laboratory conditions, you
can't really just replicate, you know, you can push things
in a direction, but there's always the imperfection if you're
trying to brainwash, if you're trying to coercively control the mind.
Some dogs are just damn hard at doing that too.
(25:54):
And some of the dogs in the lab, by the
way that almost drowned were fine and they.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Were able to go forward and they maybe.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Maintained the conditioning, but also they maintain their personality. So
it is a very individualized thing, right, I Mean, people
go the old Maki. The Maki quote for a uh,
you know, madness of crowds is that people go mad
in herds and only regain their senses one by one.
You know, you just don't want to be pulled into
(26:22):
that herd. You have to always maintain that one by
one attitude. So it's up to the individual. And with
technology now this stuff is more powerful than ever before,
meaning that we have you keep pulling up your phone.
I do that too in interviews with people. I'm like
this thing it was. It was innovative mind control in
(26:42):
the Stalinist era to put posters of peasants everywhere. It worked,
by the way, I mean, it was like they created
this big brother thing of like the Soviet peasant is
the peasants were starving to death because of their horrible policies,
but because of the healthy, happy looking peasants everywhere, people
were kind kind of confused by the way. Confusion and
degradation are two of the menticidal pillars.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Uh. You know, by the book you've get more of this.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
But uh, the the truth is that they never could
have dreamed of the amount of recurring propaganda that we're
subjecting ourselves to now. Right, We're we're inviting in. We're
inviting in the programming that has happened right all the time.
And when you add AI into that, you know, artificial
(27:27):
learning and these large language models and all this stuff,
now it's we're not just going to be programming you.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
We're going to be able to program you with a reality.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
That is at least visually indistinct from what is real,
you know, indistinguishable what is real and what is false.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
That's right. And now we're heading brothers.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
So you know, I, you know, I, I just uh,
you know, you're You're you really. The thing that I've
always loved so much about you, Buck is is the
depth of your mind. And I think you know this
book reppers sense that commitment towards being able to deliver
a system that benefits people in a really significant way.
(28:09):
I am so excited to buy copy. And then next
time I come down, we play tennis, and I feel
your one hundred mile an hour serve. Perhaps you would
give me an autograph copy of it.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I love to one hundred and three Rutt, But who's counting?
Who's count all right?
Speaker 3 (28:23):
But one last where can people buy it? This best
selling book? And how can they.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Give you manufacturing delusion. Buck Sexton is the author, that
is me. Amazon's obviously the easiest place. If you have
a local bookstore, go yell at the purple haired ogre
that will snort at you when you ask for the book,
because that's happened to a lot of my listeners when
they go to the local bookstore. But you can still try,
but honestly, Buck sexon dot com or just go right
(28:50):
to Amazon get a copy.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I did the audiobook, by the way, I read the
whole awesome.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
So people have a commute or something, They're like, I
just want to be able to get this. As I go,
you'll get the whole thing there. And each chapter is
really meant to be kind of a standalone. And that's
why it's like you know, conditioning ment acide. It's if
you ever want to just go back and relearn or
remember what you learned.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
About this stuff. I tried to build the book that way.
So that's the idea.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Well there you have it, ladies and gentlemen, the great
Buck Sex, then father, husband, dog lover, and best selling author.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Radio. I'm told he does a radio awesome one. Someone
says he does a radio show. Yeah, anyway, brother, thank
you so much man. Great to see you, Yeah, great
to see you.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
God bless you, buddy.
There are people that are engaged in what is clearly
a mass hysteria.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
You have to call it a delusion.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
They use a playbook of trauma to make you abandon
what you had believed before and replace it with new belief.
So this is how this stuff all ties in. And
now you say, well, Buck, why do we care about
this stuff today?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yeah? Well, I mean, they're not beating you with truncheons.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
But you go to a college campus and it's like, hey,
tell that purple hair, dude, it's actually a chick and
use the prefer pronouns, or we're going to kick you
out of school.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
So it's almost like there's been a programming already, and
now what takes place next is really dependent on people
whether or not they have the understanding that this is
the reality. So proud to welcome the great Buck Sexton
(00:52):
to the show. Back to the show. He was our
first guest. I'm sorry it's been so long since we've
had you on. And then also, once again, it is
Buck who who gave us the opportunity to come underneath
the Clay and Buck network. And just man, once again,
thank you for that. All right, manufacturing delusion, dude, when
(01:13):
did this pop into your head and and why would
you ever want to tackle the magnitude of this issue?
Speaker 1 (01:21):
So brotherly, it was first of all, thank you for
having me, and thank you for making me look good
for you being my draft choice for the Clay and
Buck podcast network. People are like, he's doing a really
good show and the audience loves it and keeps growing,
and I'm like, there we go, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Bus Gollo Swagger knows the talent.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
So how I came up with this book was after COVID,
And I mean like really after like when pretty much everybody.
I just kept walking around saying to myself or you know,
you know, thinking or muttering out loud, how did these
people go so insane?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Like what what is this? How does this happen?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
And the more I thought about it, also, I was like, well,
you know the craziness of some of these people that
you saw during COVID, where they were like policing other people,
believing wildly obviously untrue stuff like double Mask and all.
By the way, this is not a COVID book, right,
but that's just kind of the you know, the germ
of the thought, the trigger, Yeah exactly. I was like,
(02:21):
but then you also think about BLM and you think
about some of the transgender stuff. It's like there are people,
it's not everyone, but there are these mobs, masses that
are engaged in what is clearly a mass hysteria, and
they believe things that are so evidently false that you
have to call it a delusion, right, because there's no facts,
(02:44):
there's nothing. You can't present them with evidence to show
them that they're wrong. That's a delusion, right. So this
is this is where I said, well, hold on a second,
where else does that happen? And I was like, this
happens in totalitarian societies. In fact, the entirety of day
to day life at the hands of a state, whether
it's a Soviet Union, MAOIs China, UH, North Korea, Many,
(03:06):
it's et Set, a Nazi Germany UH is rooted in
mandatory or manufactured delusions. So I started this this journey
into how do they do that? Like what what is
it that are the And I don't mean how in
the most broad terms. I wanted to know, like what
are the tactical like what's the TTPH got into.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Things like.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
You know, UH, forced confession, UH, isolation, identity construction, and
really the book is just looking at these things that
are done to people to effectively bring about craziness in individuals,
but on a mass scale and the masses, and that's
how they manufacture a delusion.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
And in doing so I came across Mirlu, who you
are the only dude I have to give credit. But
I've done dozens and dozens of interviews. You know, we're
still in like the opening opening salvo of media and
I'm just like already, I'm like, oh my god, no
one else has ever heard of this guy.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Rut When I told because I talked to you.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
When I was writing this book, jus Merlou was a
psychiatrist for your audience, I know, you know, yeah, he's
a psychiatrist who he changed his name from Abraham in
occupied ned the Netherlands Holland during the Second World War
to evade the Nazis and made his way to England
and joined the Dutch army in exile. But he was
(04:29):
a trained psychiatrist, and so he's like, you know what
I could do here. I could help in information operations,
psychological operations. I can debrief Nazi SS prisoners to learn
what how did you do this? Like, how did you
psychologically corrupt the whole society. And he wrote a book
called The Rape of the Mind that's a particularly seminal
work on this issue, where he looks at this is
(04:51):
how you break people down, this is how you can
create mass delusion. And so that I mean ment to
side is his term the killing of the brain.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
That's the second chapter of the book.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
And I look at gender theory and gender identity where
it's like, Okay, I understand we're not all in camps
and that you know they don't have like guards with
with band ask or throats. But you're supposed to say
something that's obviously false, and if you don't, you get fired.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
That's a coercive psychological approach.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Right, You're supposed to say, oh, no, that that's not
a penis, that's a vagina. No, it's not assigned at birth.
In fact, the whole notion of assigned at birth is preposterous.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Dave.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
You've got kids, you can no longer before birth, whether
it's a boy.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Or a girl. So that makes the whole thing makes
no sense.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Well, I think you're I mean, first off, I am
so happy that you tackled this right. A lot of
people have tackled whether it was you know, RFK Junior's
book The Real Anthony Fauci and the manipulation of ideas
around our science industries, because one of the components that
Mi or Lou talks about, right is when you capture
(05:57):
different industries or in particular science or governments and and
and it's everybody knows that governments use propaganda as to manipulate.
But I think what we're seeing now, although like you said,
we're not in a totalitarian state, but the conditioning has
improved to such a magnificent level that you know, through
(06:20):
this thing right here, you know, I'm I'm a slave
in in the conditioning. And for me it was for
me it was really I think it was doctor Robert
Malone right when he went on Rogan the first time,
and he called he talked about the phrase mass formation
psychosis as a result of the COVID mania, and he
(06:42):
quoted a friend of him, Mattias Desmond, who also wrote
a book post COVID h called the Psychology of Totalitarianism.
So as I started to research this, I immediately found
uh Yo Shmirlou's book uh and I was. I read
that and it was the roadmap.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yes, yeah, ju just mearly.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
There's a reason why he became a phenomenon in the fifties.
And by the way, that was right at the time
where the term brainwashing. And just to be clear for everyone,
like why do I want you to get this book?
There's a lot of right wing slop books. I'll just
be honest, there are there's a lot of right wing
slop books. You pay someone fifteen grand and it's like
here's how I think we can save America and how
much I love Trump.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
You're learning nothing.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Okay, that's actually eighteen months to research and write this book,
every word of it myself. I had five months of
PRB or PCRB by the way they call it Nowadaves
because Dave knows from the CIA side.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I had to get cleared.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
For this because for the first time, and you know,
I'm very clear by there's stuff like I was like
I was an analyst or whatever. But this is about
being an analyst of things. This isn't about being some
one door kicker. I leave the doorkicking to you, ruight.
But I talk about my first yeah, my first CIA
assignment to Nigeria, which I had never talked about before,
(08:01):
which was wild stuff, because I was essentially sent to
a place no one wanted to go. And they they
almost pulled me when they realized how junior. They're like,
what are you? Sometimes they're like what the hell are
you doing here? Giving the stuff that I was getting.
And there was one guy who, let's just say at
home base there in Nigeria, who just took me under
(08:22):
his wing, who is a senior dude, and he's like,
you're smart and capable, You're gonna come with me everywhere.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
So I went with him to every meeting.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
I went all over the place, all over the country,
looking for and looking at really the origins of what
became Boko Haram and and they were all it was already,
the different mosques and the way that they were, the
way that they were isolating people from even the even
the Islamic community around them, the way they were doing
identity construction, you know. So so I saw it sort
(08:52):
of in the earliest phase. And then I talk a
little bit about some of the research into like Jihattist
suicide bomber rat lines in Iraq and Pakistan.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Pakistan was the worst, right, what twenty five thousand madrasas
I remember in five when I went back, there was
an expos I forget it was the a BBC or something.
There was a reporter, I forget what her name is,
award winning reporter, and she they led her into the Madrasas.
And that's exactly what it was. It was the systematic conversion. Right.
(09:24):
You go into Queta, you say, hey, you've got ten kids,
I'll take your eight to thirteen year old I'll bring
them in, I'll teach them how to Arabic, I'll teach
them the Quran. And then over time, you know, they
created what something like one hundred thousand suicide bombers, a
jahanas Mulah's missiles they were called. Yeah, So it's fascinating
(09:48):
to me that as such a young analyst in really
this profound time of mind manipulation, in particular within Islam itself,
you know that that triggered this thing that has stayed
with you to now where you know, as one of
the top commentators in the world, you are so connected
(10:11):
to witnessing the other side or whatever, the other side
of totalitarianism and now to say, all right, I'm gonna
invest a really profound amount of time when you had
a lot of things going on in your life by
way during that time. So yeah, so like when you
when we were on the phone and you were like, dude,
I'm writing a book about this. I was like, Yes,
(10:34):
this thing's gonna rock, man.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So thank you man, And I appreciated your support all
all along as I was doing it. And uh, and
I'll tell you you know what Rus said to me.
He's like, he's like, dude, you're diving into Mirrorlu. This
thing is gonna be awesome. Okay, So he knew and
that was like two years ago. This book took a
long time to get to get to where it is now.
But you know, you talk about, uh, what was going
on with the Madrasas in Pakistan, for example, But this
(10:59):
is the thing. Say, there's like this very specific process. Well, yeah,
there is. And that's what Merlu saw. By the way,
so did Robert Liften, who in the third chapter of
the book brainwashing, brainwashing for the audience. And there's a
lot of this kind of stuff in the book that
you should know, just the history of the things. That's
an American term. It's a neologism from the Mandarin for washmind,
(11:20):
which is actually what they were saying among the Chinese
in the early days of Mao is China, the early
days of the Cultural Revolution, was happening to people who
would be released. They're like, this person has had washmind.
We call it brainwashing because of Edward Hunter. He was
a journalist who came up with that. They had a
term for it, though the Chinese thought reform. It was
the reforming of your thoughts, and it was very systematic.
(11:44):
Where do they get it from the chi coms? They
got it from the Soviets. And now you want to
know where did the Soviets come up with some of
this stuff? The father of conditioning was Ivan Pavlov. Now
Pavlov is not a kami, but the first chapter I
get into is or rather I should say, you know,
recognize that the failures of communism, although he also benefited
(12:07):
from their system once they realized he was too important
a scientist to just like, let's starve in the streets,
because that was actually something that they're worried about, or
he was worried about at one point because of all
the failures of the Leninis system early on.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
But Pavlov, it's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Pavlov is doing the first scientific studies really of external stimuli.
Taken in by the brain affecting the body directly.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
People knew that.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
You know, they look at this, but this is the
earliest word he's proving because of the gastric secretions of dogs.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
And this is where we get to the buzzer.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
People have this whole thing about like Pavlov was great
at training dogs, he wasn't training dogs. He was running
scientific experiments to see what the brain body connection was.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
And this correlation between the limbic response right, your parasympathetic
in your sympathetic nervous diet. I'm the dynamic integration of
those two things based on stimula, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
And so if you have enough of a stimulus from
the outside that over time is repeated and the brain
picks it up, even subconsciously, can there be a physiological response.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Of course, the answer was yes. But what was fascinating?
Speaker 1 (13:21):
And I talk about this in the book which is
called Manufacturing Delusion, And I want all the pipe hitters
and snake heaters and ruts, audience, you will like this book,
all right, you know absolutely this is analysts analyze, damn it.
This is what I do. And this is a good book.
And you guys will appreciate it, you want to.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
It's funny you bring that up because like when I
when you when you were telling me about it, like
for for me and I and you know, it's it's
it's sometimes it's difficult to acknowledge this, but we experienced
this and going through buds right Like I remember in
Hell week, like third night, You're sitting at late night
chaw or whatever it was, and an instructor would come
(13:58):
over and put like a glass of a cold ice
water next to you, just set it down, just put
it right down next to you, and I'd look at
it and immediately start shaking, like because I had developed
hydrophobia from being immersed in the water. And that was
the first time I was like, holy shit, I've just
been conditioned through the integration of this and it happened
(14:21):
like that, happened like that.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
So let me take you back to the huge Eureka
movement moment in nineteen twenty four, and in some people's minds,
it's kind of the scientific beginnings of brainwashing as a
as a thing that will be pursued, although again that
was not Pavlov's intent, but because of the revelation by
the way they had spies in all of his labs.
The Soviets were paying lenin. They were incredibly attuned to
(14:47):
Ivan Pavlov what he was doing, and they ended up
funding his stuff and giving him his own little scientific village.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
But you know, he was kind of using them. They
were using him, it was.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
And by the way I became I corresponded with the
premiere academic historian of Pavlov, a Professor Totis, just so
I was like, I need to understand who this guy
really was. He's a written incredible, like one thousand page biography,
this guy, and he's a professor emeritus and JOHNS Hopkins anyway,
but I talked to him just so I could kind
of get, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Squared away, and I would ask him questions.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
And so Pavlaw in the lab there's a flood, okay,
And the flood in nineteen twenty four in Saint Petersburg,
it's just the whole city's basically just getting some merged
underwater because the river's overflown.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Well guess what.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
The dogs, of course, are on the ground floor and
there are secually essentially these cages like kennel like situation,
and the dogs realize this is really bad. Right, we're
toast and they're they're all barking. They're all barking. You know,
you're a dog guy. I'm a dog guy.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Get like I get like saddest thing, Me too, Me too.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
However, the lab attendants were able to just break in
it though, So the dogs were they when they got in,
and this is according to the records. Their snouts were
above the water. They were literally just peeking up, just
able to get so you could, I mean so they
knew that, you know that there was not much time left.
They were dying. Basically, they're about to die. Lab technician
(16:06):
gets in and saves all the dogs.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
But here's what happens.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
These dogs have been conditioned for years, rut the conditioning
in about you know, a third of the dog's gone,
just gone, all of a sudden. Now the buzzer, nothing
happens all of a sudden. Now some of them that
were particularly friendly are really aggressive. Some that are really
shy are really bold. It flicked switches in these animals
(16:32):
that that endured trauma over hours as the water rose.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Brainwashing, brainwashing.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And now you see when you go into a maoist
thought reform sell, what do they do to people, They
separate you from everyone else. They force you into false confession,
they drop all session and can they do struggle sessions.
They beat you, they say you're not sincere enough, even
what you say, even when you say what you're supposed
to say. They use a playbook of trauma to make
(17:04):
you abandon what you had believed before and replace it
with new belief. So this is how this stuff all
ties in. And now you say, well, buck, why do
we care about this stuff today?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah? Well, I mean, they're not beating you with truncheons.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
But you go to a college campus and it's like, hey,
tell that purple hair dude it's actually a chick and
use the preferred pronouns, or we're going to kick you
out of school, or we're gonna say you're a bigot,
or we're gonna say whatever. Even Mirlu said, the tactics
are the same, if the force used is different, right,
interesting the same?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, all right? So where do you think why? Why has?
Speaker 3 (17:37):
All? Right, obviously it's easy to go back and reflect
on the twentieth century, right and say it's so obvious
when you look at all of those regimes, you look
like you look at at that manufactured delusion and the
systematic breakdown of the human psyche right through these conditioning mechanisms.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
How does it continue to permit me? Like, would you
believe it?
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Is it possible that the educational system is the easiest
conduit into the American public? Is it politics that does it?
Is it the media that does it? Like I mean,
you are this is a.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Great question, and not just because I like you, but
this is something I get into a lot.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Think of this, Think.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Of this as as you would the variations that occur. Again,
whether it's I mean that the subtitle of the book
Manufacturing Delusion is my book, which everybody should go get
a copy of who's watching this podcast because it's already
a bestseller and you will love the book and you'll
want to give it to people. But it's how the
left uses brainwashing and doctrination and propaganda against you. Those
(18:41):
are all variations on a theme, depending, you know, with
some some shifts in the tactics and the force used.
But they're all trying to bring about the same thing,
which is a molding of your neural processes in your
mind and your brain. And so it's all dependent upon
what what the entity is that you're you know, are
(19:02):
you trying to make somebody uh are you? Are you
operating within a totalitarian society, or are you bringing somebody
into a cult, or are you trying to bring somebody
into a political idealogy. I get into cults in the book,
by the way, and which.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Cults did you find?
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Which cults that did you think we're the best examples
of that?
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I mean, umschin Rikio is wild, dude.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
It is these are educated, otherwise completely law abiding and
normal Japanese people who are paying thousands of dollars for
drops of water that they're told are bath water of
the dude who then wants them to use sharin gas
and kill everybody.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
I mean, it is just nuts. And but you go again.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
You get into the processes of how do you convince people?
How do you know? What promises do you make? How
do you separate them from family?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
How do you know? How do you do these things
to uh? What? You know?
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Psychologists, by the way, they have terms too. They'll say
it's coercive persuasion is the broad term. But so what
are the different tools of coercive persuasion that are used?
And the thing is, if you ever watch a documentary.
I mean, like, neither you nor I was able to
go to North Korea. But North Korea is effectively a
cult state. The whole state is a cult. It's just
(20:18):
as totalitarian force. But it's all built along the same
ideas of this is a cult leader. Everybody does exactly
what they're told. Everybody's brainwashed and you know, and that's
what you get. And so I mean sort of the
two takeaway concerns that I have that I want ever
understand is one, this exists already, meaning that you have
(20:38):
communists China where they control the thoughts of the Chinese
people to a large degree. I mean not entirely, but
to a degree that is that is authoritarian, if not totalitarian,
And some would argue, by the way, it's totalitarian, right,
but it's absolutely authoritarian mind control in this in the
second biggest country and second biggest economy in the world today.
So this isn't like, oh, but what if the all
(21:00):
the all the whales die and the and the sky's
you know, turn purple or something, right, this is real.
And the other thing is that Amirlu's warning even from
Rape of the Mind of the fifties, He's like, if
you don't think that this can happen, meaning mass yester
aia through mind control in Western says, look at Nazi Germany.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
I didn't realized Nazi Germany was pre Nazi Germany even
after World War One. Artistic, literary uh, free expression guaranteed
in the constitution, everything else.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
The hub of thought, right, the hub of modern thought.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
I mean, one of the most sophisticated.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Someone argued maybe the moos sophisticated cultural and scientific.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Hub in the world.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
And then it goes into the absolute grips of of
evil madness. There was a process that people were put
through that was it was done to them and done
on and people did it to others. And that is
how I mean, I viewed as the biggest threat to
humanity ruts. So that's really why I wanted to write
the book, which is called Manufacturing Delusion, and everybody should
(21:59):
buy a copy of it.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
I love it all.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Right, Before we get into the next aspect of this
madness right here, I just really want to talk about
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Speaker 2 (23:22):
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Speaker 3 (23:24):
The one thing that I think is interesting is that
correlation to a society that doesn't that potentially doesn't seem vulnerable.
And when you go back and you really look at
at the profound impact of World War One on the
German people, in particular German males, right, and the how
hammered they were, which put them into that revolutionary spirit, right,
(23:48):
and to then to begin to contort through this great
oriator who was, you know, the most angry about everything,
and he picked the you know, he picked Jewish people
to be the outlet for the focus of the propaganda,
and you know, and then you see, like right now,
over the last twenty five plus years, you know, you
(24:08):
have a really impacted group of us that served in
the GWAT right to tox you know, Iraq, Afghanistan. What
was the end result. So there's some you know, there's
some demoralization there. Then you've been going after young men,
convincing them that they're hostile to the world, they're oppressors.
(24:29):
So it's almost like there's been a programming already and
now what takes place next is really dependent on people
whether or not they have the understanding that this is
the reality, this is how it works, and how easily
people can be manipulated towards these radical ideologies. How do
(24:49):
you think we move forward other than buying your book
manufacturing to loser at bucksx dot com. Right, and how
do we how do we prepare right gen Z to
be able to begin to fight back against the potentiality
of this manufactured delution.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
So there's a great lesson also from Pavlov's labs that
he always he struggled with but also took a bit
of heart from, which was that human beings are far
more complicated in their neurochemistry and they're wiring, if you will,
than dogs are, although dogs are actually you know his
two dog lovers. Dogs are very emotional and can be connected.
(25:31):
But even even under the even under laboratory conditions, you
can't really just replicate, you know, you can push things
in a direction, but there's always the imperfection if you're
trying to brainwash, if you're trying to coercively control the mind.
Some dogs are just damn hard at doing that too.
(25:54):
And some of the dogs in the lab, by the
way that almost drowned were fine and they.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Were able to go forward and they maybe.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Maintained the conditioning, but also they maintain their personality. So
it is a very individualized thing, right, I Mean, people
go the old Maki. The Maki quote for a uh,
you know, madness of crowds is that people go mad
in herds and only regain their senses one by one.
You know, you just don't want to be pulled into
(26:22):
that herd. You have to always maintain that one by
one attitude. So it's up to the individual. And with
technology now this stuff is more powerful than ever before,
meaning that we have you keep pulling up your phone.
I do that too in interviews with people. I'm like
this thing it was. It was innovative mind control in
(26:42):
the Stalinist era to put posters of peasants everywhere. It worked,
by the way, I mean, it was like they created
this big brother thing of like the Soviet peasant is
the peasants were starving to death because of their horrible policies,
but because of the healthy, happy looking peasants everywhere, people
were kind kind of confused by the way. Confusion and
degradation are two of the menticidal pillars.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Uh. You know, by the book you've get more of this.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
But uh, the the truth is that they never could
have dreamed of the amount of recurring propaganda that we're
subjecting ourselves to now. Right, We're we're inviting in. We're
inviting in the programming that has happened right all the time.
And when you add AI into that, you know, artificial
(27:27):
learning and these large language models and all this stuff,
now it's we're not just going to be programming you.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
We're going to be able to program you with a reality.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
That is at least visually indistinct from what is real,
you know, indistinguishable what is real and what is false.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
That's right. And now we're heading brothers.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
So you know, I, you know, I, I just uh,
you know, you're You're you really. The thing that I've
always loved so much about you, Buck is is the
depth of your mind. And I think you know this
book reppers sense that commitment towards being able to deliver
a system that benefits people in a really significant way.
(28:09):
I am so excited to buy copy. And then next
time I come down, we play tennis, and I feel
your one hundred mile an hour serve. Perhaps you would
give me an autograph copy of it.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I love to one hundred and three Rutt, But who's counting?
Who's count all right?
Speaker 3 (28:23):
But one last where can people buy it? This best
selling book? And how can they.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Give you manufacturing delusion. Buck Sexton is the author, that
is me. Amazon's obviously the easiest place. If you have
a local bookstore, go yell at the purple haired ogre
that will snort at you when you ask for the book,
because that's happened to a lot of my listeners when
they go to the local bookstore. But you can still try,
but honestly, Buck sexon dot com or just go right
(28:50):
to Amazon get a copy.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I did the audiobook, by the way, I read the
whole awesome.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
So people have a commute or something, They're like, I
just want to be able to get this. As I go,
you'll get the whole thing there. And each chapter is
really meant to be kind of a standalone. And that's
why it's like you know, conditioning ment acide. It's if
you ever want to just go back and relearn or
remember what you learned.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
About this stuff. I tried to build the book that way.
So that's the idea.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Well there you have it, ladies and gentlemen, the great
Buck Sex, then father, husband, dog lover, and best selling author.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Radio. I'm told he does a radio awesome one. Someone
says he does a radio show. Yeah, anyway, brother, thank
you so much man. Great to see you, Yeah, great
to see you.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
God bless you, buddy.
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Buck Sexton
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