Jason Collinsworth — host of the I Hate Soccer podcast and 11-year youth soccer trainer — joins David to break down what's actually happening inside the multi-billion-dollar youth sports machine. You'll learn why 17 coaches in eight years can produce zero real development, why the leagues your kid is fighting to join are run as gatekeeping cartels, and why most coaches at the youth level can't even articulate a coaching philosophy when asked. David explains why what Jason is describing isn't a soccer problem — it's the same failure pattern you see when any system replaces meticulous individual development with marketing, recruiting, and pay-to-play optics. We break down two-footed training as a confidence-building doctrine, why parents become the threat instead of the support, and what to look for in a coach who's actually going to develop your kid versus one who's going to use them. Jason Collinsworth has spent over a decade running his own training company and is one of the most-watched independent voices in U.S. youth soccer.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I used to have high HIGHS Division I level type
players that would come to me and say, I only
enjoy soccer when I'm training with you. I used to
be like, that is not a compliment that hurts. Why
is it called I hate soccer? It's that Why are
we turning this sport into something that they used to
(00:21):
love and too something that is a job at fourteen
and fifteen years old.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
All that stuff is conditioned through parents and coaches and
other players, and it's like, man, where has the love
of the game gone? Jason Collinsworth from the I Hate
Soccer podcast, Man, I was just we're talking before my
(00:50):
wife sent me one of your videos about the politics
of ECNL and GA girls travel soccer.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
And I was automatic hooked.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
And since that I've gone through I've watched probably three
or four year shows and Jason, what you're doing is
really cool. Can you tell the audience why you decided
to start the I Hate Soccer podcasts and what's been
taking place?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
So for the last eleven years, I haven't worked for
a club. I work for myself and I did my
own training company and I started in twenty fifteen in Buffalo,
New York because I was out there coaching in the NWSL,
which is a professional league, with when they still had
the team. So I broke off of that started my
own thing. And for the last eleven years, I've talked
(01:42):
and developed and developed relationships with all these players and
all these families, and then they would come with me
with their nightmares from club and all throughout those ten years,
I would always just like whisper under my breath, or
a parent would whisper under their breath. I hate soccer.
I hate soccer because we're hearing these stories over and
(02:03):
over and over again. So at about twenty twenty three
twenty four, a lot of my college or a lot
of my players that have had for eight years started
going to college. And I, even as a coach at
a high level, I really didn't know about the recruiting process.
So I'm like, you know what, once you get back
(02:23):
from your freshman year of college, let's do a video
where would you just give me a deep dive into
into your recruiting process and your first year of college
to let them know, let my younger players know what
college soccer really is. And I really got consistent with
(02:45):
it in twenty twenty five last year and the first
clip I put up on Instagram or the second clip
blew up. I gained like a thousand followers from one clip.
And it was actually about a girl who plays division
on soccer and she was on r L and she
used to think that being on an r L roster
was a death sentence, that you can never make it
(03:08):
to a high level plane r L. And that is
the one that just catapulted me. And I'm like, you
know what I'm gonna be. I'm gonna do more. I'm
going to do more and more and more. And then
i started talking to coaches and directors and that's that's
how it all started.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Well, and and that's really the information, right because you know,
as a travel soccer family and uh, you know, we
just uh you know, we we had gone eight years
with our oldest she played at GA level US soccer level.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
She tried out for two E C and L teams.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
The lower level has been trying to get to E
C and L but but they're they've been given an
r L ranking to see how they do. You know,
all this stuff and after this maybe I'll have you
break that down so people understand what I'm talking about.
But you know, the same you're right, the same things
as we keep running into the inconsistencies of the program,
the inconsistencies of the development, the inconsistencies of coaching, right,
(04:05):
and so even, and that's at every single level. We've
seen this. And I actually before this show, my last show,
which was a really strict motivational performance show, I did
a seven part series about travel sports in general. I
covered volleyball, soccer, baseball, and hockey, and I had really
(04:26):
elite you know, all pretty much all former national champions
or pro players on to talk about their experience and
and the the information you get from those personal stories
is so powerful because what what I got to is
that everybody's journey is kind of unique obviously for their
(04:48):
own physical development, their their mental development of understanding the
game right, and then also you know that the emotional
gain of of you know, whether you're siloed into just
personal stats or you actually become a part of a
club team that really is has a great culture and
nur seeking championships, right, And there's all those differences. So
(05:10):
you know, I let's just start with your expertise. What
are the differences between the higher level clubs nationally for
both boys and girls.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Well, really, it's a closed system. It's not an open system.
And we have we're the only country in the world
that has competing governing bodies at the youth level. Right,
so we think that US Soccer runs everything. It doesn't.
Soccer founded in nineteen thirteen, hasn't. They don't care about
(05:44):
youth soccer. They didn't start a youth soccer league until
two thousand and seven. Everybody thinks that. Everybody thinks that
us YSA is US Soccer. It's not. It's a contract
it's a it's a it's a contractor.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
So, the USYSA was founded in the seventies, as was ayso,
and US Soccer didn't get involved in it full on
youth soccer until they started the Development Academy on the
boys side in two thousand and seven, and people came
(06:20):
at them and said, hey, why don't you do this
on the girls side too, and US Soccer verbatim said,
we don't need to do it on the girls. We
have the world's best female soccer players. So the girls
got tossed aside. That spawned US Club Soccer that was
founded in two thousand and two. But they started the
(06:40):
ECNL in two thousand and nine to be kind of
like the same thing but on the girls side. And
that has morphed into in the insane amount of clubs
and insane amount of travel and very but it's a
very high level. E CNL is a very high level
(07:01):
of girls. I'm not gonna say clubs and I'm not
gonna say coaches, but it is a very high level
of girls. And so now what has happened so US soccer,
US soccer. Once COVID hit, US Soccer said no more DA,
(07:22):
we're not doing it, and that was they started the
Girls Development Academy in like twenty sixteen, so they gave
girl soccer four years. They waited until twenty fifteen, twenty
sixteen to start the girl side, and then in twenty
twenty COVID hit and that was an excuse to close
both shops. Wow, but the ECNL is still up there
(07:44):
and they're gaining power. And then MLS Major League Soccer
came in and started there. They kind of took over
from the DA, but it's completely separate. So now we
have an arms race of ECNL. It's ridiculous. We have
an arms race of e C and L and MLS
but MLS is now merged or kind of partnered with
(08:10):
the Girls Academy, the GA, which you talked about, which
your daughter played in GA and MLS versus E C
and L and it's can who can get the biggest?
Who can get the biggest? And it's crazy And then
and then there's a war of we're better than you, No,
(08:30):
we're better than you. And they never play each other
on the field, so you don't actually get to know
that who is actually better on the field. And nobody
cares about on the field because we're not allowed to
win anymore. It's all development over winning, which is ridiculous.
But yeah, so that's in a nutshell. That's you soccer today.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
It's interesting, all right.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
So those are those seems those are the overall parent ideas, right,
How does a regional club get to decide or determine
who they join like.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Or who they get to play with?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
What are the criteria for the clubs that you're aware
of or that you can decipher?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I guess that's the best question.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
It's determined in a boardroom. It's determined. It's determined by
who you know, It's determined by does the other club
in the area that's in that platform like us. Are
they scared of us? Because there's a lot of gatekeeping
going on, especially on especially on the ECNL side. There
(09:36):
are clubs that will keep other clubs out until I
just had GTFC on a Greater Toledo Football Club the director.
They were forced to be in the RL for three years.
RL is the second tier of the e CNL. They
were forced to be in the RL for three years.
(09:57):
They had a gold differential among they're six clubs or
six age groups. They had a gold differential of plus
one thousand, and they were still kept out of ECNL
because the Michigan Hawks are about an hour away and
an hour and a half away and the founding member
(10:18):
of ECNL, and they keep them out and they said,
don't let them in, and then eventually e CNL goes. Guys,
they're scoring one thousand goals, we have to let them in.
The same exact thing happened to the Nationals, which is
another Michigan club. They won three. You were talking about
your daughter before we started winning playing for that club
(10:42):
that won three us YSA national titles, two two the Nationals,
they had four age groups that were finalists and one
year I forget what year it was, and the ECNL
still kept them out. They've they've been applying and applying
(11:05):
and applying, and it's because the gatekeepers that have been
there forever kept them out. It's unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
And in your estimation, why why do you keep a
program out because you don't want to dilute it and
make it worse. Because you can't because the individual clubs
have control of their own club, how many tournaments they play,
where they go, what they signed up for, right, So
there's the governance and then the production of quality players
(11:36):
that's obviously not the same amongst clubs. So is that
why you think they're being more GATEKEEPERSH.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
I don't know if it's diluting the product, I because I,
for one, personally, I want an open system. I want
everybody to play under one banner. And then maybe if
you if you're a new club, you just start at
the bottom and then work your way up, and then
if you keep on winning, you get promoted, and if
you do pretty poorly, you get relegated to a league lower.
That's how the rest of the world doesn't. I don't
(12:07):
know if it's I think it's more about competition and
worrying about losing their own players because they might treat
girls better. They might they might have better coaches, and
they might you can only it's like the multi sport argument, right,
It's like, how do you know you love soccer if
(12:29):
you don't get to play basketball or softball or baseball
or whatever. Right, It's the same with the clubs, like
how do I know that you're the best if I
don't get to like maybe go train with them or
see what they're doing. But they're in another league. And
so it's if you notice a lot of clubs, they
don't promote their own club, They promote the league that
(12:49):
they're in. That yeah, and it's and it's like, okay,
now what are we doing here? And that's like the
talking points. Right, if you ever watch if you ever
watch CNN and you get some of the some of
the like the Democratic congressman, they all say like the
(13:09):
exact same phrase. It's like who emailed you this morning?
To say the exact same thing over and over and
over again, who emailed all of you? But that's the
saying that the same thing.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Happened with the Republicans in the ballroom last week, and
the whole ballroom.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yeah it's the same.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like, it's like, what is
going on? And I was like, wait a minute, you
guys are all posting the exact same stats. It's like
forty of ROL, we have a forty two percent increase
of college coaches and GA only has nineteen. It's like,
you guys are all posting the exact same stats. Who
emailed you to say all this? And that's what it was,
(13:48):
and that's why I had that left versus right thing.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, it's also one of your guests was sorry to
cut you off.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
One of your guests was was talking.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
About, you know, the how you like what like essentially
or maybe you were saying it I forget, but someone
was saying that these the bigger places, they're marketing companies, right,
They're marketing their capabilities.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
And I think the underlying component is two fold.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
One, if you're an ECNL or GA, you're gonna have
your best crack at D.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
One, D two, D three, Right, That's kind of what
the sale is. And then because that sale.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
That will that will mandate the the level of your
annual fees and what the parent is willing to spend
on five national tournaments versus two national tournaments or whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yep, yep, absolutely, And it doesn't mean we're getting to
a point where you can trot out any coach on
some of these teams. And because you're in a platform,
because you're in the easy, you know you're going to
compete just because you get all the best talent. It's
not necessarily that you're developing anybody. You're just accumulating. You're recruiting.
(15:09):
You're literally recruiting, and it's like college, but for thirteen
year olds. It's like recruiting for fourteen year olds. It's awful.
You're professionalizing in skipping steps. I feel, not just.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
A few, most, we're skipping most steps right.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
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development of these young athletes is an abomination of what
it should be, uh, you know, and that's the thing
that really impacts me the most. In particular, when you
(17:14):
look at you know, some of the statistics for percentages
of people, so rough estimates, right, there's three hundred and
eighty five to four hundred thousand girls playing high school
age soccer, right, and and out of that, you know,
two point four to two point eight go to D one.
NCA D one, D two is two to two three
(17:37):
point zero, NCA D three is three percent total, seven
point nine percent of those.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Girls make it into it.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
And another statistic because we actually looked at sending Chloe
to IMG and they gave us some statistics you know,
for for eighty five ninety thousand dollars, right, we have
a we have a matriculation. It was a ninety eight
percent of the girls go play college, you know, two
percent go play pro right out of here. And then
(18:07):
they broke down these other numbers of really like how
many girls, Like what is it like eighty nine percent
of kids that go on to play college come from
the travel programs. So it's like they basically are saying,
you can't be a three sport athlete in high school
(18:29):
if you want to play college, right, you have to
isolate at least by thirteen silo yourself. Right even before
the post puberty, body kind of formation sets in and
you realize that quickness or that IQ or your strength development.
It's like, no, that's when they're in the bubble, and
that's when we have to get them dedicated to doing
(18:51):
seven in national tournaments a year and all that. As
a longtime player and coach and person who understands all
this is what is in your mind the biggest misconceptions
that both the club right, the club kind of puts
forward or the coaches put forward to these young players.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
I think the biggest misconception is that development comes, not
only comes first, but is development real if everybody is
being replaced by the new kid in town or somebody
from three hours away. I was in Buffalo the last
eleven years and you wouldn't believe how many nine and
(19:41):
ten parents of nine and ten year old girls were
terrified when all their team was from Buffalo. And then
I was like, that's really good. But they're coming, and
they're like, who's coming? The Canadians. Players from Erie, Pennsylvan
people from Cleveland, Ohio. People from rog Yeah, it's insane.
(20:06):
People from Rochester, New York, people from Syracuse, New York,
people from Binghamton are going to come and so these
nine and ten year olds are like, well, we're we're
at the best club. We're going to develop, We're at
the ECNL club. It's like you're going to be replaced.
You're going to be replaced by the Canadians soon, or
(20:28):
by the kids that chose Flash over Cleveland Force or whatnot.
And I always and and as a coach, I grew
up believing that the European academies were unbelievable at development.
And then I really started like getting into the into
(20:48):
the weeds about it. They release guys every year too,
They bring in guys from three countries over to come
and play in their academies at fourteen. And then I'm like,
wait a minute, MESSI went to Barcelona at thirteen years old.
What happened to the kid he replaced? If Barcelona, if
(21:11):
Barcelona is so good at developing talent, why doesn't every
eight year old that they touch end up being a pro?
Is development real? Or are we just always looking for
the next mia Ham? I think that's the biggest misconception now.
(21:31):
And and we've copy, we copy curriculums and we copy drills,
and I think that I don't have kids but if
I did, I would I would find coaches that develop
a relationship with my kids, that talk to them, that
would tell them, you know what you weren't you were
(21:54):
your standard today? I think very They can be hard.
You can go to a kid and say your standard
is year you dropped today, and I want you mess up.
Whenever you play really really well, you messed up because
I know what you're now capable of. Now this is
your standard and if you below, if you fall below that,
(22:15):
I'm going to be hard on you. That's what I
would be looking for from a coach. Not the fancy club,
not the fancy licensing, any of that. Just somebody that's
going to talk to my kid because there's a lot
of environments. There's a lot of environments where kids go
and they don't get talked to at all by their coach.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
At all at all. I mean, Chloe was the perfect example, right.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
She had one, two, three, four, five six coaches plus
her high school plus one two, three four high school coaches,
different high school coaches, so that's ten coaches, right.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Plus we had two outs or three.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Outside coaches, one who ran a D two program, one
who plays kind of eastern European Pro and then some
other things, and then another that has just been played
high school, and then like one year of college, and
then that has stopped for medical reasons but has been
teaching shooting essentially. Oh, and then we had another guy
(23:22):
who owns the local soccer store. So you know, you
put all those coaches together, I mean we're looking at
sixteen different coaches, fifteen different coaches.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Out of that group, there's been.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Three that actually looked at my daughter as an individual
player and able to have those unique conversations to set
whatever the standard is. Right, Hey, listen, let me articulate
to you the expectations, what I want to see from
you in practice, what I want to see for the game,
(23:56):
what I want to see you doing outside on.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Your own, right, these are the things. And then as the.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Year progresses, it's like, Okay, she got that skill set,
she got that skill set, she got set.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
That's even with the good coaches.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
We really haven't seen that map laid out obviously, but
that was it out of the rest of the coaches,
Like she was just a body on the field, and
in many cases it was just like until they could
replace her with some outside person that was switching from
ECNL to GA because they hated the ECNL program, or
they were going from GA or going from US soccer.
(24:33):
You know, it's just it's like, now we're in this
nil phase of our transfer portal phase of travel.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Yeah, what are your thoughts that all that?
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Well, and those three coaches also probably made her realize
I'm more than a soccer player because they actually get
to know her and talks about things that aren't just
soccer because we all know and we're worried about does
she identify as a soccer player? Well, what happens when
soccer players when soccer's gone? What like that moment could
(25:06):
be tough for a lot of players and as long
as you have that foundation. But you also just touched
on it. You just listed off fifteen, sixteen, seventeen coaches
that another misconception is I developed that player. Dude, you
she's had seventeen coaches. You didn't develop her, like you
(25:28):
know what I mean. And a lot of coaches are
territorial and they're defensive about that possessive and the portal
and like the stuff. I mean, I when you bring
up stuff like the transfer portal, and I know that
you brought up. You've done some stuff on Dusty lately.
(25:50):
And so I am actually close family friends with Trey McKinney,
who plays on Michigan, who's the freshman that was really good. Yeah,
I've known his dad since I was nine years old.
My sister, My sister is married to Trey's dad's best friend. So,
(26:10):
and here's the thing about the transfer portal and all
that stuff. I think that you should be able to
leave toxic environments. I think I And there's always a
reason behind it, and it's not always because you're looking
for a level up. Maybe they made a mistake and
they realized that they're not at that level. That happens,
and maybe they were forced by a club coach to
(26:32):
play at a certain level or to commit to a
certain school because it looked better on an Instagram post.
That you went to an ACC school versus a MAX school.
That happens, That happened to a player or that I
that I know, it's ridiculous what's going on, But and
I always say this to adults. If you've got a job,
(26:57):
if you've got to transfer or an opportunity to transfer
to let's call it Nashville, and they're going to offer
you one hundred thousand dollars more than your current job.
Would you take it? Almost everybody would. Everybody would, or
even just stay in your own city, right if you're
(27:17):
in if you're in Boca Raton, Florida, and then the
competitor just offers you one hundred and fifty thousand dollars
in full benefits and everything else on top of what
you're making.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Now you're going to.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Go, why are we blaming eighteen year old kids? Why
are we forcing seventeen year old kids to make these decisions?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
That's what say, Yeah, that's what kills me.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
And the other thing too, is I think you know,
and this is I think rightly deserved from clubs in
particular down here. It's it's unlike I think most places
in the country in terms of the negative aspare aspect
of parental influence, negative influence pressure, putting pressure on the coaches,
(28:05):
the programs going crazy. They thinking your kid is going
to go play in the you know, national championship game
at D one for Stanford. You know she's gonna get
recruited for them, you know, in her freshman year, and
you know she she she doesn't even have a pullback
move or she doesn't have an opposite.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Foot or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
But yet they can cooc and so that pressure that
comes in too is another factor probably for a lot
of the reasons coaches react in certain ways they do
our clubs run that they do. Can you talk a
little bit what you've seen why programs might be a
little bit more resistant for a you know, I don't
(28:48):
know what the right term would be to but they
kind of shield these kids and they only want to
talk to the kids. Why do you think that's a
positive or negative? I think it's negative.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
I really I always involved parents and everything that I
did because I wanted to talk to the parents because
the kid doesn't always tell you everything, so then you know,
and then I love getting the parents' point of view.
So like in my supplemental training company, I would talk
to the parent, you know, and they would fill me in.
(29:22):
I'm like, yeah, this happened, and you know, and then
once mom or dad leaves, then I bring it up
to the kid, like your dad said this, did this
really happen? And then she's like, no, it didn't happen
that way, it happened this way, And I think you
need that I think you need that as a coach,
and ego plays a big factor in it. I think soccer.
(29:46):
I don't know if it's like this in other sports,
but something about soccer coaches are very territorial. They're very
defensive if you question, if you question them, and then
they want to give you a resume. I've done this,
I've developed that. I when I want your opinion, I'll
(30:06):
give it to you. It's like, what kind of like
you're talking about relationship building?
Speaker 3 (30:11):
That's right?
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Why would I Why would I trust you? Why would
I trust you with my daughter? If you are going
to treat me like that, you know, like you're not
coming and telling me how to do my job, you
know what I mean? But I am going to tell
you about my job and we're going to like talk
and like show you what my experience is. Philosophy do
(30:36):
they have Do they have a philosophy?
Speaker 3 (30:39):
They don't?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Do? You know how many coaches I've gone up to,
Like the first thing I ever do when I work
with a coach is I ask them, hands down, what's
your coaching philosophy? And nine times out of ten they're
like by what I was, like, Yeah, you're written stated
objective of what you want. If you get to spend
you know, ten weeks or ten years with a kid,
(31:00):
what do you want that kid to become?
Speaker 3 (31:02):
That's your coaching philosophy.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Right, And then you know next next to that is like,
show what's your training doctrine? Like what's the progression that
you're integrating into the training into the season that a
year long season essentially, like show me what that looks.
And nobody has this stuff. They've got all this crap
written on their websites promising.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
You this exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
But but you don't like I'll go I'll go to
I'll go to like, I'll start at the beginning of
the season, go out watch a practice. I'll come in
the end and it's literally they're doing the same drills
they've done all Oh my.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
God, oh my god, it's the same practice. That was
the number one complaint I ever got from my players
is that it's so boring. They we just do the
exact same thing. We show up, we warm up, we
do a little technical passing drill, and then we scrimmage,
and it's like, why does everybody do the exact same
thing and expect to be better? And that's what goes
back to my is development real? Why do why do
(31:59):
why do technical training trainers have to exist? Why did
I have to exist? My company shouldn't have to exist,
especially for the amount of money that you guys pay.
What do you get? What do you get? What is
your ROI? But that's another thing about some parents that
I see sometimes, and I get worried about this. All
(32:23):
these parents pay all this money, so for ten years,
eight years, whatever do some parents put pressure on their
kid to play college soccer because they want an ROI
on what they just spent for seven years? And then
that puts unbelievable pressure on some of these kids. I
just had somebody on that I posted yesterday. She was
(32:44):
talking about one of her players committed and she goes
and she asked the players like, all right, how happy
are you? And she goes, I'm just happy for my parents.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
What.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Oh wow, that's not right.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
I don't like that.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Oh, I see you see it all the time.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
You see kids make normal mistakes on the field, whatever
it is, and then what do they do. They immediately
look over to their parent to check if they're upset
or they're angry or whatever. I had one one parent,
not in travel, but in middle school a sport at
my kids school, and the dad is on his iPad
(33:26):
filming every time the child touched the ball, and then
they're getting into arguments in.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
The middle of the game on the thing.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
And I'm like, I'm almost like, I'm like, hey, buddy,
let me let me you need let's step outside. Let
me just break some things down for you. Your kid's already
under enough pressure. You don't need to be actively like
coaching each each step, each crossover, each move. I mean,
it's ridiculous. So all right, let's break it out a
(33:57):
little bit.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
What is the.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
In your mind, what would be kind of the best
formula for a player that's post puberty, right, so they
know what their body is going to look like. They
they they can get a good understanding of their speed, capability, quickness,
ball skills, ball handling and traffic shot both feed defensive breakdown,
(34:25):
like they have those those that solid foundation to where
if they want to, they could start that process of
climbing that you know, the ladder to potentially move into
collegiate soccer. What are the things that you talk to
players to think about.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
One thing, is you touched on it being two footed.
I have t shirts made up of like be two
footed for my players because I think that think about
the worst team that Chloe ever played on.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
If you think of think of the worst team, right,
and you think of the gap between the best player
and the very worst player. Right now, if think about
Chloe's best team, think of the best player, and think
of the of the worst player, it's a smaller gap.
That's the same with your feet. I believe that if
(35:19):
you're right, if your right foot is here and your
left foot is down here, you're going to be an
average player. You're gonna like like that team that had
that big of a gap, that was an average team
at best. Right. So if you're if you can be
here and here individually technically with both feet, all surfaces
(35:39):
of both feet, I think you're going to be a
great player, or you're going to be way better than
somebody that's just one footage. And that builds confidence too,
because now because now if you have two players coming
at you, you have more capability of getting out of
it because you're two footed, Versus if you have two
players coming and you only have a right foot, you're
(36:02):
gonna you're limited. So that's that's always been the foundation
of what I do with my technical training.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
That's brilliant. I mean, I mean I remember, like I went.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
I played lacrosse in college at Penn State, and when
I showed up, you know, I was I was good.
I was from Florida, small, not as many teams did
a fifth year high school, postgraduate year up at a
big prep school and up north. But I was left handed, man,
I had the left split dodge. I had a role
left and I almost had. So I show up and
there's these kids from Philly and Long Island and you know,
(36:34):
all in upstate New York and all these like hardcore
lacrosse areas.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
They all had two hands.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
And so immediately I have this herculean effort to just
catch up, you know, with as many wallballs.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
I two hundred right hand wall balls a day.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
And so it's like, you know, those gaps in your
you know, you would think like coaches on these programs
would identify, Hey, here's your gap. I need you to
go do three hundred of these while you're on your own,
or four hundred of these, But yet it doesn't seem
like there's much of that type of thing. And that's
(37:14):
why parents and kids have to go outsource people like you,
Like I mean, at one point, we had Chloe with
a passing guy, we had her with a shooting guy,
we had her at a strength and conditioning guy, and
we had her with a speed guy. Four outside coaches
(37:34):
plus the program here and you're like, what is going on?
Speaker 1 (37:40):
What do you guys provide? What's crazy is that when
I have a player that works for me for seven
or eight years, they're very, very very good on their
weak foot. So I have I have three girls that
(38:01):
only their coaches will only play them on the on
the left side of the field because they think she's
left footed. She's right footed. She doesn't. He's been coaching
them for three years and he doesn't even know that
she's right footed. We're talking about that relationship building. She's
so good on her weak foot that she that he
(38:22):
just automatically assumes that, oh, she's left footed, she's right footed.
He doesn't even know that, and he works with her
way more than with me, or she works with me.
It's like, how do you not know that you're the coach?
And they don't have time to break that all down
individually because they're too worried on team focus and team
tactics and group tactics, and it's just that's lost. Another
(38:45):
thing I'll add is that being completely two footed allows
you to be versatile in what position you play, and
if you're if you can play multiple positions. At youth,
it's not a bad thing. I used to have a
player that was a really good, like attacking center mid,
but then when when it came time to sub, she
(39:08):
had to move out to the left or to the right,
and she hated it because the girl that came in
for her could only play the ten. And I go, look,
being versatile, being able to play in multiple positions will
only help you get on the field sooner in college.
She ends up going to Nebraska. Wow, she play. She
plays twenty minutes a game her freshman year, which is
(39:29):
unheard of for a lot of hers. Yeah, and now
she just completed her junior year. She was their leading goalscorer.
It's like, because you got the twenty minutes on the field,
being able to plug and play wherever they needed you
got you to where you're the leading goal scorer for
the team this year.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
That's what we're trying to convince our fourteen year old,
who is you know, climbing slowly and deciding she's in
that space of going up to the next thing. But
you know, I think the biggest challenge that I felt.
You know, my my wife's a former D one athlete too,
played field hockey, has sat at you know, hundreds of games,
you know, and is now pretty astute on how to evaluate.
(40:13):
And she was a captain of her team at U
Maine back in the day. And you know, and both
of us know how to evaluate, uh, you know, a
player and our children in particular, and and but there's
always seems to be this gap like of of you know,
parents and their influence on their their kids. What what
(40:33):
what is some of the great stuff that you recommend
some mental mental skills development or mental like development for
as it gets harder and harder, and then and then
how to match that with some emotional stability from the
the highs and lows that you're going to face as
you climb the light. Like I remember Chloe went up
and they played top hat in Georgia last year and
(40:57):
she's playing against three girls on the front line that
are all going D one, that are all like six' to,
two and she was freaking, out and it's Like john's,
trying my wife's trying to calm her, down and SHE
i don't want to LET i Get and then she
gets on a field and finally settles in and does pretty,
decent like they only scored one goal on.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Her but but you, know.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
What do you suggest for kids in their own mental
skills development and then their emotional stability?
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Development oh, BOY i mean that's that's a huge.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Question and maybe we'll come.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Back Maybe i'll have you back in a couple of
weeks and we can talk about, it but can you
just touch on.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
It WHAT i find is they have to have somebody
that they uh, MY i guess this is going to
be my ego a little. Bit WHEN i deal with
the higher level, players my, sessions my one on one
sessions ends up being a therapy. Session it's just them
(42:01):
talking to me because they don't want to talk to
mom and dad because they they're too upset about what
you got on the math, test, right and you're dealing
with pressure from all, angles and sometimes these kids just
need somebody else to talk. To and sometimes somebody that's
their own age isn't, right like won't, listen and they
(42:25):
got their.
Speaker 4 (42:26):
Own right, Right SO i man IF i had that,
ANSWER i wish more clubs had some resources for those
kinds of.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Conversations but that's where your. Strength that's WHERE i think
having a strength and conditioning coach or a technical trainer
or a speed coach really is good for the, athletes
not only because of what they're doing to your, game
but what you're doing to your headspace because it gives
because they don't control you're playing, time what position you,
(43:03):
play they don't control your grades on a, test they
don't they don't control that you're. Recruiting they're just there
to help you get, better and they're there to listen
to you and to just let you. Vent AND i
think more kids need that BECAUSE i take it one
of the worst things. THOUGH i used to have HIGH
(43:27):
Highs DIVISION ie level type players that would come to
me and, SAY i only enjoy soccer When i'm training with.
YOU i used to be, like that is not a
compliment that hurts because Because i'm you know, again why
is it CALLED i hate? Soccer it's That why are
(43:50):
we turning this sport into something that they used to
love and too something that is a Job at fourteen
and fifteen years. OLD i understand The DIVISION ie level
being a. Job At division two level being a, JOB
i understand, That but why are we doing that at
fourteenth at? Fifteen it?
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Sucks it does, Suck it does.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
SUCK i think that's the Real if there's anything THAT
i could THAT i try and, do if anybody, ever you,
know reaches out or ass or anything like, that like
you know that that coaching philosophy should root in the
joy of being physical first and foremost, right the that
sense of euphoria that comes from training really, hard managing
(44:33):
that positive, pain converted it into self, confidence committing to
team orientation and finding real purpose and winning right and
and not in a selfish way and not in a
you know this negative, well it's always.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
Political the coach hates, me you, Know and that's.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Conditioned all that stuff is conditioned through parents and coaches
and other. Players and it's, like, man where has the
love of the game? Gone and you, KNOW i think you're.
RIGHT i think that's the thing that we need to
get back to for.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Sure and it's just the relationship. Building i'll bring Back
Dusty may BECAUSE i know What Dusty may does behind the,
scenes because of what how often he's talking To trey
and and and just making sure that it's not just
the x's and, o's it's about you as the player.
Too and going back to your question about talking to
(45:25):
parents and, Stuff Dusty may Called trey's dad and, said
don't believe the. Rumors i'm not going. Anywhere it's like
even the world class coaches Like Dusty may is talking to,
parents but all these youth coaches that coach at you
FOURTEEN b, team LIKE i don't talk to parents Because
i'm the. Best it's, like what are we?
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Doing i'm, Sorry, JASON I i, man we got to
wrap it up.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Now i'm. SORRY i could talk to you for days about.
This maybe we went in the next few. Minutes, YEAH
i would love to come, back.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Man AND i just think your wisdom and what you've
learned in this endeavor is so. Fascinating where can people
listen to the, podcast how they can follow? You and
what's the name of your own individual? TRAINING i hate
soccer Podcast it's on. Everything it's a, YouTube, Apple. SPOTIFY
i hate soccer. Podcasts instagram is ALSO i hate soccer. Podcasts.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Training i've actually kind of closed my training company. DOWN i,
KNOW i was In, buffalo AND i got to a
point where a lot of people In buffalo wouldn't talk to,
me they wouldn't come on the. Show So i'm, like, Wow,
oh But michigan is a different. Beast michigan is more
(46:45):
of a. Hotbed there's more, clubs there's more, colleges there's
more high level. Colleges we Got michigan And Michigan state
right down the. Street So i'm, like you know, what
IF i really want to go after this, PODCAST i
need to move home And i'm back In, Michigan And,
oh that's. Great and Then i'm just focusing on this
because it's all about. IMPACT i felt that through my training,
(47:07):
COMPANY i made more of an impact than IF i
was a club. Coach, yeah and now i feel Like
i'm almost making more of an impact of the podcast
THAN i.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
Did As.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
Oh of, course it's absolutely. Genius AND i love that you're.
UNBIASED i love that you have people at every level
on people run, programs, clubs great, coaches, Players anybody who's,
listening if you know anybody that's a part of the
club soccer in any, way shape or, form this is
the podcast for. You i'm telling you it's so. Good
(47:37):
he's so, Good. Jason i'm so Happy i've found. You
you've got a huge fan of. ME i totally respect
that you tackle this and good luck and keep up
the great work.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
Man god bless, you. Buddy thank you you.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Too Thanks, david
I used to have high HIGHS Division I level type
players that would come to me and say, I only
enjoy soccer when I'm training with you. I used to
be like, that is not a compliment that hurts. Why
is it called I hate soccer? It's that Why are
we turning this sport into something that they used to
(00:21):
love and too something that is a job at fourteen
and fifteen years old.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
All that stuff is conditioned through parents and coaches and
other players, and it's like, man, where has the love
of the game gone? Jason Collinsworth from the I Hate
Soccer podcast, Man, I was just we're talking before my
(00:50):
wife sent me one of your videos about the politics
of ECNL and GA girls travel soccer.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
And I was automatic hooked.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
And since that I've gone through I've watched probably three
or four year shows and Jason, what you're doing is
really cool. Can you tell the audience why you decided
to start the I Hate Soccer podcasts and what's been
taking place?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
So for the last eleven years, I haven't worked for
a club. I work for myself and I did my
own training company and I started in twenty fifteen in Buffalo,
New York because I was out there coaching in the NWSL,
which is a professional league, with when they still had
the team. So I broke off of that started my
own thing. And for the last eleven years, I've talked
(01:42):
and developed and developed relationships with all these players and
all these families, and then they would come with me
with their nightmares from club and all throughout those ten years,
I would always just like whisper under my breath, or
a parent would whisper under their breath. I hate soccer.
I hate soccer because we're hearing these stories over and
(02:03):
over and over again. So at about twenty twenty three
twenty four, a lot of my college or a lot
of my players that have had for eight years started
going to college. And I, even as a coach at
a high level, I really didn't know about the recruiting process.
So I'm like, you know what, once you get back
(02:23):
from your freshman year of college, let's do a video
where would you just give me a deep dive into
into your recruiting process and your first year of college
to let them know, let my younger players know what
college soccer really is. And I really got consistent with
(02:45):
it in twenty twenty five last year and the first
clip I put up on Instagram or the second clip
blew up. I gained like a thousand followers from one clip.
And it was actually about a girl who plays division
on soccer and she was on r L and she
used to think that being on an r L roster
was a death sentence, that you can never make it
(03:08):
to a high level plane r L. And that is
the one that just catapulted me. And I'm like, you
know what I'm gonna be. I'm gonna do more. I'm
going to do more and more and more. And then
i started talking to coaches and directors and that's that's
how it all started.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Well, and and that's really the information, right because you know,
as a travel soccer family and uh, you know, we
just uh you know, we we had gone eight years
with our oldest she played at GA level US soccer level.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
She tried out for two E C and L teams.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
The lower level has been trying to get to E
C and L but but they're they've been given an
r L ranking to see how they do. You know,
all this stuff and after this maybe I'll have you
break that down so people understand what I'm talking about.
But you know, the same you're right, the same things
as we keep running into the inconsistencies of the program,
the inconsistencies of the development, the inconsistencies of coaching, right,
(04:05):
and so even, and that's at every single level. We've
seen this. And I actually before this show, my last show,
which was a really strict motivational performance show, I did
a seven part series about travel sports in general. I
covered volleyball, soccer, baseball, and hockey, and I had really
(04:26):
elite you know, all pretty much all former national champions
or pro players on to talk about their experience and
and the the information you get from those personal stories
is so powerful because what what I got to is
that everybody's journey is kind of unique obviously for their
(04:48):
own physical development, their their mental development of understanding the
game right, and then also you know that the emotional
gain of of you know, whether you're siloed into just
personal stats or you actually become a part of a
club team that really is has a great culture and
nur seeking championships, right, And there's all those differences. So
(05:10):
you know, I let's just start with your expertise. What
are the differences between the higher level clubs nationally for
both boys and girls.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Well, really, it's a closed system. It's not an open system.
And we have we're the only country in the world
that has competing governing bodies at the youth level. Right,
so we think that US Soccer runs everything. It doesn't.
Soccer founded in nineteen thirteen, hasn't. They don't care about
(05:44):
youth soccer. They didn't start a youth soccer league until
two thousand and seven. Everybody thinks that. Everybody thinks that
us YSA is US Soccer. It's not. It's a contract
it's a it's a it's a contractor.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
So, the USYSA was founded in the seventies, as was ayso,
and US Soccer didn't get involved in it full on
youth soccer until they started the Development Academy on the
boys side in two thousand and seven, and people came
(06:20):
at them and said, hey, why don't you do this
on the girls side too, and US Soccer verbatim said,
we don't need to do it on the girls. We
have the world's best female soccer players. So the girls
got tossed aside. That spawned US Club Soccer that was
founded in two thousand and two. But they started the
(06:40):
ECNL in two thousand and nine to be kind of
like the same thing but on the girls side. And
that has morphed into in the insane amount of clubs
and insane amount of travel and very but it's a
very high level. E CNL is a very high level
(07:01):
of girls. I'm not gonna say clubs and I'm not
gonna say coaches, but it is a very high level
of girls. And so now what has happened so US soccer,
US soccer. Once COVID hit, US Soccer said no more DA,
(07:22):
we're not doing it, and that was they started the
Girls Development Academy in like twenty sixteen, so they gave
girl soccer four years. They waited until twenty fifteen, twenty
sixteen to start the girl side, and then in twenty
twenty COVID hit and that was an excuse to close
both shops. Wow, but the ECNL is still up there
(07:44):
and they're gaining power. And then MLS Major League Soccer
came in and started there. They kind of took over
from the DA, but it's completely separate. So now we
have an arms race of ECNL. It's ridiculous. We have
an arms race of e C and L and MLS
but MLS is now merged or kind of partnered with
(08:10):
the Girls Academy, the GA, which you talked about, which
your daughter played in GA and MLS versus E C
and L and it's can who can get the biggest?
Who can get the biggest? And it's crazy And then
and then there's a war of we're better than you, No,
(08:30):
we're better than you. And they never play each other
on the field, so you don't actually get to know
that who is actually better on the field. And nobody
cares about on the field because we're not allowed to
win anymore. It's all development over winning, which is ridiculous.
But yeah, so that's in a nutshell. That's you soccer today.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
It's interesting, all right.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
So those are those seems those are the overall parent ideas, right,
How does a regional club get to decide or determine
who they join like.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Or who they get to play with?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
What are the criteria for the clubs that you're aware
of or that you can decipher?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I guess that's the best question.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
It's determined in a boardroom. It's determined. It's determined by
who you know, It's determined by does the other club
in the area that's in that platform like us. Are
they scared of us? Because there's a lot of gatekeeping
going on, especially on especially on the ECNL side. There
(09:36):
are clubs that will keep other clubs out until I
just had GTFC on a Greater Toledo Football Club the director.
They were forced to be in the RL for three years.
RL is the second tier of the e CNL. They
were forced to be in the RL for three years.
(09:57):
They had a gold differential among they're six clubs or
six age groups. They had a gold differential of plus
one thousand, and they were still kept out of ECNL
because the Michigan Hawks are about an hour away and
an hour and a half away and the founding member
(10:18):
of ECNL, and they keep them out and they said,
don't let them in, and then eventually e CNL goes. Guys,
they're scoring one thousand goals, we have to let them in.
The same exact thing happened to the Nationals, which is
another Michigan club. They won three. You were talking about
your daughter before we started winning playing for that club
(10:42):
that won three us YSA national titles, two two the Nationals,
they had four age groups that were finalists and one
year I forget what year it was, and the ECNL
still kept them out. They've they've been applying and applying
(11:05):
and applying, and it's because the gatekeepers that have been
there forever kept them out. It's unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
And in your estimation, why why do you keep a
program out because you don't want to dilute it and
make it worse. Because you can't because the individual clubs
have control of their own club, how many tournaments they play,
where they go, what they signed up for, right, So
there's the governance and then the production of quality players
(11:36):
that's obviously not the same amongst clubs. So is that
why you think they're being more GATEKEEPERSH.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
I don't know if it's diluting the product, I because I,
for one, personally, I want an open system. I want
everybody to play under one banner. And then maybe if
you if you're a new club, you just start at
the bottom and then work your way up, and then
if you keep on winning, you get promoted, and if
you do pretty poorly, you get relegated to a league lower.
That's how the rest of the world doesn't. I don't
(12:07):
know if it's I think it's more about competition and
worrying about losing their own players because they might treat
girls better. They might they might have better coaches, and
they might you can only it's like the multi sport argument, right,
It's like, how do you know you love soccer if
(12:29):
you don't get to play basketball or softball or baseball
or whatever. Right, It's the same with the clubs, like
how do I know that you're the best if I
don't get to like maybe go train with them or
see what they're doing. But they're in another league. And
so it's if you notice a lot of clubs, they
don't promote their own club, They promote the league that
(12:49):
they're in. That yeah, and it's and it's like, okay,
now what are we doing here? And that's like the
talking points. Right, if you ever watch if you ever
watch CNN and you get some of the some of
the like the Democratic congressman, they all say like the
(13:09):
exact same phrase. It's like who emailed you this morning?
To say the exact same thing over and over and
over again, who emailed all of you? But that's the
saying that the same thing.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Happened with the Republicans in the ballroom last week, and
the whole ballroom.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yeah it's the same.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like, it's like, what is
going on? And I was like, wait a minute, you
guys are all posting the exact same stats. It's like
forty of ROL, we have a forty two percent increase
of college coaches and GA only has nineteen. It's like,
you guys are all posting the exact same stats. Who
emailed you to say all this? And that's what it was,
(13:48):
and that's why I had that left versus right thing.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, it's also one of your guests was sorry to
cut you off.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
One of your guests was was talking.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
About, you know, the how you like what like essentially
or maybe you were saying it I forget, but someone
was saying that these the bigger places, they're marketing companies, right,
They're marketing their capabilities.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
And I think the underlying component is two fold.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
One, if you're an ECNL or GA, you're gonna have
your best crack at D.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
One, D two, D three, Right, That's kind of what
the sale is. And then because that sale.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
That will that will mandate the the level of your
annual fees and what the parent is willing to spend
on five national tournaments versus two national tournaments or whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yep, yep, absolutely, And it doesn't mean we're getting to
a point where you can trot out any coach on
some of these teams. And because you're in a platform,
because you're in the easy, you know you're going to
compete just because you get all the best talent. It's
not necessarily that you're developing anybody. You're just accumulating. You're recruiting.
(15:09):
You're literally recruiting, and it's like college, but for thirteen
year olds. It's like recruiting for fourteen year olds. It's awful.
You're professionalizing in skipping steps. I feel, not just.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
A few, most, we're skipping most steps right.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
The development of these young athletes is an abomination of
what it should be. I just want to really talk
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Speaker 3 (16:17):
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Speaker 2 (16:19):
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Speaker 3 (16:20):
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Speaker 2 (16:22):
I am addicted to Black Rifle Coffee's just black. I
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Other one I love is the ak Espresso. This one
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(16:44):
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Speaker 3 (16:49):
Discount quote and tell them, oh ruddy rut send you.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
So to all those folks out there who love coffee
like I do, please do yourself a favor and go
check out my brothers at b R c C. The
development of these young athletes is an abomination of what
it should be, uh, you know, and that's the thing
that really impacts me the most. In particular, when you
(17:14):
look at you know, some of the statistics for percentages
of people, so rough estimates, right, there's three hundred and
eighty five to four hundred thousand girls playing high school
age soccer, right, and and out of that, you know,
two point four to two point eight go to D one.
NCA D one, D two is two to two three
(17:37):
point zero, NCA D three is three percent total, seven
point nine percent of those.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Girls make it into it.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
And another statistic because we actually looked at sending Chloe
to IMG and they gave us some statistics you know,
for for eighty five ninety thousand dollars, right, we have
a we have a matriculation. It was a ninety eight
percent of the girls go play college, you know, two
percent go play pro right out of here. And then
(18:07):
they broke down these other numbers of really like how
many girls, Like what is it like eighty nine percent
of kids that go on to play college come from
the travel programs. So it's like they basically are saying,
you can't be a three sport athlete in high school
(18:29):
if you want to play college, right, you have to
isolate at least by thirteen silo yourself. Right even before
the post puberty, body kind of formation sets in and
you realize that quickness or that IQ or your strength development.
It's like, no, that's when they're in the bubble, and
that's when we have to get them dedicated to doing
(18:51):
seven in national tournaments a year and all that. As
a longtime player and coach and person who understands all
this is what is in your mind the biggest misconceptions
that both the club right, the club kind of puts
forward or the coaches put forward to these young players.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
I think the biggest misconception is that development comes, not
only comes first, but is development real if everybody is
being replaced by the new kid in town or somebody
from three hours away. I was in Buffalo the last
eleven years and you wouldn't believe how many nine and
(19:41):
ten parents of nine and ten year old girls were
terrified when all their team was from Buffalo. And then
I was like, that's really good. But they're coming, and
they're like, who's coming? The Canadians. Players from Erie, Pennsylvan
people from Cleveland, Ohio. People from rog Yeah, it's insane.
(20:06):
People from Rochester, New York, people from Syracuse, New York,
people from Binghamton are going to come and so these
nine and ten year olds are like, well, we're we're
at the best club. We're going to develop, We're at
the ECNL club. It's like you're going to be replaced.
You're going to be replaced by the Canadians soon, or
(20:28):
by the kids that chose Flash over Cleveland Force or whatnot.
And I always and and as a coach, I grew
up believing that the European academies were unbelievable at development.
And then I really started like getting into the into
(20:48):
the weeds about it. They release guys every year too,
They bring in guys from three countries over to come
and play in their academies at fourteen. And then I'm like,
wait a minute, MESSI went to Barcelona at thirteen years old.
What happened to the kid he replaced? If Barcelona, if
(21:11):
Barcelona is so good at developing talent, why doesn't every
eight year old that they touch end up being a pro?
Is development real? Or are we just always looking for
the next mia Ham? I think that's the biggest misconception now.
(21:31):
And and we've copy, we copy curriculums and we copy drills,
and I think that I don't have kids but if
I did, I would I would find coaches that develop
a relationship with my kids, that talk to them, that
would tell them, you know what you weren't you were
(21:54):
your standard today? I think very They can be hard.
You can go to a kid and say your standard
is year you dropped today, and I want you mess up.
Whenever you play really really well, you messed up because
I know what you're now capable of. Now this is
your standard and if you below, if you fall below that,
(22:15):
I'm going to be hard on you. That's what I
would be looking for from a coach. Not the fancy club,
not the fancy licensing, any of that. Just somebody that's
going to talk to my kid because there's a lot
of environments. There's a lot of environments where kids go
and they don't get talked to at all by their coach.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
At all at all. I mean, Chloe was the perfect example, right.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
She had one, two, three, four, five six coaches plus
her high school plus one two, three four high school coaches,
different high school coaches, so that's ten coaches, right.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Plus we had two outs or three.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Outside coaches, one who ran a D two program, one
who plays kind of eastern European Pro and then some
other things, and then another that has just been played
high school, and then like one year of college, and
then that has stopped for medical reasons but has been
teaching shooting essentially. Oh, and then we had another guy
(23:22):
who owns the local soccer store. So you know, you
put all those coaches together, I mean we're looking at
sixteen different coaches, fifteen different coaches.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Out of that group, there's been.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Three that actually looked at my daughter as an individual
player and able to have those unique conversations to set
whatever the standard is. Right, Hey, listen, let me articulate
to you the expectations, what I want to see from
you in practice, what I want to see for the game,
(23:56):
what I want to see you doing outside on.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Your own, right, these are the things. And then as the.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Year progresses, it's like, Okay, she got that skill set,
she got that skill set, she got set.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
That's even with the good coaches.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
We really haven't seen that map laid out obviously, but
that was it out of the rest of the coaches,
Like she was just a body on the field, and
in many cases it was just like until they could
replace her with some outside person that was switching from
ECNL to GA because they hated the ECNL program, or
they were going from GA or going from US soccer.
(24:33):
You know, it's just it's like, now we're in this
nil phase of our transfer portal phase of travel.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Yeah, what are your thoughts that all that?
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Well, and those three coaches also probably made her realize
I'm more than a soccer player because they actually get
to know her and talks about things that aren't just
soccer because we all know and we're worried about does
she identify as a soccer player? Well, what happens when
soccer players when soccer's gone? What like that moment could
(25:06):
be tough for a lot of players and as long
as you have that foundation. But you also just touched
on it. You just listed off fifteen, sixteen, seventeen coaches
that another misconception is I developed that player. Dude, you
she's had seventeen coaches. You didn't develop her, like you
(25:28):
know what I mean. And a lot of coaches are
territorial and they're defensive about that possessive and the portal
and like the stuff. I mean, I when you bring
up stuff like the transfer portal, and I know that
you brought up. You've done some stuff on Dusty lately.
(25:50):
And so I am actually close family friends with Trey McKinney,
who plays on Michigan, who's the freshman that was really good. Yeah,
I've known his dad since I was nine years old.
My sister, My sister is married to Trey's dad's best friend. So,
(26:10):
and here's the thing about the transfer portal and all
that stuff. I think that you should be able to
leave toxic environments. I think I And there's always a
reason behind it, and it's not always because you're looking
for a level up. Maybe they made a mistake and
they realized that they're not at that level. That happens,
and maybe they were forced by a club coach to
(26:32):
play at a certain level or to commit to a
certain school because it looked better on an Instagram post.
That you went to an ACC school versus a MAX school.
That happens, That happened to a player or that I
that I know, it's ridiculous what's going on, But and
I always say this to adults. If you've got a job,
(26:57):
if you've got to transfer or an opportunity to transfer
to let's call it Nashville, and they're going to offer
you one hundred thousand dollars more than your current job.
Would you take it? Almost everybody would. Everybody would, or
even just stay in your own city, right if you're
(27:17):
in if you're in Boca Raton, Florida, and then the
competitor just offers you one hundred and fifty thousand dollars
in full benefits and everything else on top of what
you're making.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Now you're going to.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Go, why are we blaming eighteen year old kids? Why
are we forcing seventeen year old kids to make these decisions?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
That's what say, Yeah, that's what kills me.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
And the other thing too, is I think you know,
and this is I think rightly deserved from clubs in
particular down here. It's it's unlike I think most places
in the country in terms of the negative aspare aspect
of parental influence, negative influence pressure, putting pressure on the coaches,
(28:05):
the programs going crazy. They thinking your kid is going
to go play in the you know, national championship game
at D one for Stanford. You know she's gonna get
recruited for them, you know, in her freshman year, and
you know she she she doesn't even have a pullback
move or she doesn't have an opposite.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Foot or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
But yet they can cooc and so that pressure that
comes in too is another factor probably for a lot
of the reasons coaches react in certain ways they do
our clubs run that they do. Can you talk a
little bit what you've seen why programs might be a
little bit more resistant for a you know, I don't
(28:48):
know what the right term would be to but they
kind of shield these kids and they only want to
talk to the kids. Why do you think that's a
positive or negative? I think it's negative.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
I really I always involved parents and everything that I
did because I wanted to talk to the parents because
the kid doesn't always tell you everything, so then you know,
and then I love getting the parents' point of view.
So like in my supplemental training company, I would talk
to the parent, you know, and they would fill me in.
(29:22):
I'm like, yeah, this happened, and you know, and then
once mom or dad leaves, then I bring it up
to the kid, like your dad said this, did this
really happen? And then she's like, no, it didn't happen
that way, it happened this way, And I think you
need that I think you need that as a coach,
and ego plays a big factor in it. I think soccer.
(29:46):
I don't know if it's like this in other sports,
but something about soccer coaches are very territorial. They're very
defensive if you question, if you question them, and then
they want to give you a resume. I've done this,
I've developed that. I when I want your opinion, I'll
(30:06):
give it to you. It's like, what kind of like
you're talking about relationship building?
Speaker 3 (30:11):
That's right?
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Why would I Why would I trust you? Why would
I trust you with my daughter? If you are going
to treat me like that, you know, like you're not
coming and telling me how to do my job, you
know what I mean? But I am going to tell
you about my job and we're going to like talk
and like show you what my experience is. Philosophy do
(30:36):
they have Do they have a philosophy?
Speaker 3 (30:39):
They don't?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Do? You know how many coaches I've gone up to,
Like the first thing I ever do when I work
with a coach is I ask them, hands down, what's
your coaching philosophy? And nine times out of ten they're
like by what I was, like, Yeah, you're written stated
objective of what you want. If you get to spend
you know, ten weeks or ten years with a kid,
(31:00):
what do you want that kid to become?
Speaker 3 (31:02):
That's your coaching philosophy.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Right, And then you know next next to that is like,
show what's your training doctrine? Like what's the progression that
you're integrating into the training into the season that a
year long season essentially, like show me what that looks.
And nobody has this stuff. They've got all this crap
written on their websites promising.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
You this exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
But but you don't like I'll go I'll go to
I'll go to like, I'll start at the beginning of
the season, go out watch a practice. I'll come in
the end and it's literally they're doing the same drills
they've done all Oh my.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
God, oh my god, it's the same practice. That was
the number one complaint I ever got from my players
is that it's so boring. They we just do the
exact same thing. We show up, we warm up, we
do a little technical passing drill, and then we scrimmage,
and it's like, why does everybody do the exact same
thing and expect to be better? And that's what goes
back to my is development real? Why do why do
(31:59):
why do technical training trainers have to exist? Why did
I have to exist? My company shouldn't have to exist,
especially for the amount of money that you guys pay.
What do you get? What do you get? What is
your ROI? But that's another thing about some parents that
I see sometimes, and I get worried about this. All
(32:23):
these parents pay all this money, so for ten years,
eight years, whatever do some parents put pressure on their
kid to play college soccer because they want an ROI
on what they just spent for seven years? And then
that puts unbelievable pressure on some of these kids. I
just had somebody on that I posted yesterday. She was
(32:44):
talking about one of her players committed and she goes
and she asked the players like, all right, how happy
are you? And she goes, I'm just happy for my parents.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
What.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Oh wow, that's not right.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
I don't like that.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Oh, I see you see it all the time.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
You see kids make normal mistakes on the field, whatever
it is, and then what do they do. They immediately
look over to their parent to check if they're upset
or they're angry or whatever. I had one one parent,
not in travel, but in middle school a sport at
my kids school, and the dad is on his iPad
(33:26):
filming every time the child touched the ball, and then
they're getting into arguments in.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
The middle of the game on the thing.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
And I'm like, I'm almost like, I'm like, hey, buddy,
let me let me you need let's step outside. Let
me just break some things down for you. Your kid's already
under enough pressure. You don't need to be actively like
coaching each each step, each crossover, each move. I mean,
it's ridiculous. So all right, let's break it out a
(33:57):
little bit.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
What is the.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
In your mind, what would be kind of the best
formula for a player that's post puberty, right, so they
know what their body is going to look like. They
they they can get a good understanding of their speed, capability, quickness,
ball skills, ball handling and traffic shot both feed defensive breakdown,
(34:25):
like they have those those that solid foundation to where
if they want to, they could start that process of
climbing that you know, the ladder to potentially move into
collegiate soccer. What are the things that you talk to
players to think about.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
One thing, is you touched on it being two footed.
I have t shirts made up of like be two
footed for my players because I think that think about
the worst team that Chloe ever played on.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
If you think of think of the worst team, right,
and you think of the gap between the best player
and the very worst player. Right now, if think about
Chloe's best team, think of the best player, and think
of the of the worst player, it's a smaller gap.
That's the same with your feet. I believe that if
(35:19):
you're right, if your right foot is here and your
left foot is down here, you're going to be an
average player. You're gonna like like that team that had
that big of a gap, that was an average team
at best. Right. So if you're if you can be
here and here individually technically with both feet, all surfaces
(35:39):
of both feet, I think you're going to be a
great player, or you're going to be way better than
somebody that's just one footage. And that builds confidence too,
because now because now if you have two players coming
at you, you have more capability of getting out of
it because you're two footed, Versus if you have two
players coming and you only have a right foot, you're
(36:02):
gonna you're limited. So that's that's always been the foundation
of what I do with my technical training.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
That's brilliant. I mean, I mean I remember, like I went.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
I played lacrosse in college at Penn State, and when
I showed up, you know, I was I was good.
I was from Florida, small, not as many teams did
a fifth year high school, postgraduate year up at a
big prep school and up north. But I was left handed, man,
I had the left split dodge. I had a role
left and I almost had. So I show up and
there's these kids from Philly and Long Island and you know,
(36:34):
all in upstate New York and all these like hardcore
lacrosse areas.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
They all had two hands.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
And so immediately I have this herculean effort to just
catch up, you know, with as many wallballs.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
I two hundred right hand wall balls a day.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
And so it's like, you know, those gaps in your
you know, you would think like coaches on these programs
would identify, Hey, here's your gap. I need you to
go do three hundred of these while you're on your own,
or four hundred of these, But yet it doesn't seem
like there's much of that type of thing. And that's
(37:14):
why parents and kids have to go outsource people like you,
Like I mean, at one point, we had Chloe with
a passing guy, we had her with a shooting guy,
we had her at a strength and conditioning guy, and
we had her with a speed guy. Four outside coaches
(37:34):
plus the program here and you're like, what is going on?
Speaker 1 (37:40):
What do you guys provide? What's crazy is that when
I have a player that works for me for seven
or eight years, they're very, very very good on their
weak foot. So I have I have three girls that
(38:01):
only their coaches will only play them on the on
the left side of the field because they think she's
left footed. She's right footed. She doesn't. He's been coaching
them for three years and he doesn't even know that
she's right footed. We're talking about that relationship building. She's
so good on her weak foot that she that he
(38:22):
just automatically assumes that, oh, she's left footed, she's right footed.
He doesn't even know that, and he works with her
way more than with me, or she works with me.
It's like, how do you not know that you're the coach?
And they don't have time to break that all down
individually because they're too worried on team focus and team
tactics and group tactics, and it's just that's lost. Another
(38:45):
thing I'll add is that being completely two footed allows
you to be versatile in what position you play, and
if you're if you can play multiple positions. At youth,
it's not a bad thing. I used to have a
player that was a really good, like attacking center mid,
but then when when it came time to sub, she
(39:08):
had to move out to the left or to the right,
and she hated it because the girl that came in
for her could only play the ten. And I go, look,
being versatile, being able to play in multiple positions will
only help you get on the field sooner in college.
She ends up going to Nebraska. Wow, she play. She
plays twenty minutes a game her freshman year, which is
(39:29):
unheard of for a lot of hers. Yeah, and now
she just completed her junior year. She was their leading goalscorer.
It's like, because you got the twenty minutes on the field,
being able to plug and play wherever they needed you
got you to where you're the leading goal scorer for
the team this year.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
That's what we're trying to convince our fourteen year old,
who is you know, climbing slowly and deciding she's in
that space of going up to the next thing. But
you know, I think the biggest challenge that I felt.
You know, my my wife's a former D one athlete too,
played field hockey, has sat at you know, hundreds of games,
you know, and is now pretty astute on how to evaluate.
(40:13):
And she was a captain of her team at U
Maine back in the day. And you know, and both
of us know how to evaluate, uh, you know, a
player and our children in particular, and and but there's
always seems to be this gap like of of you know,
parents and their influence on their their kids. What what
(40:33):
what is some of the great stuff that you recommend
some mental mental skills development or mental like development for
as it gets harder and harder, and then and then
how to match that with some emotional stability from the
the highs and lows that you're going to face as
you climb the light. Like I remember Chloe went up
and they played top hat in Georgia last year and
(40:57):
she's playing against three girls on the front line that
are all going D one, that are all like six' to,
two and she was freaking, out and it's Like john's,
trying my wife's trying to calm her, down and SHE
i don't want to LET i Get and then she
gets on a field and finally settles in and does pretty,
decent like they only scored one goal on.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Her but but you, know.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
What do you suggest for kids in their own mental
skills development and then their emotional stability?
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Development oh, BOY i mean that's that's a huge.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Question and maybe we'll come.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Back Maybe i'll have you back in a couple of
weeks and we can talk about, it but can you
just touch on.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
It WHAT i find is they have to have somebody
that they uh, MY i guess this is going to
be my ego a little. Bit WHEN i deal with
the higher level, players my, sessions my one on one
sessions ends up being a therapy. Session it's just them
(42:01):
talking to me because they don't want to talk to
mom and dad because they they're too upset about what
you got on the math, test, right and you're dealing
with pressure from all, angles and sometimes these kids just
need somebody else to talk. To and sometimes somebody that's
their own age isn't, right like won't, listen and they
(42:25):
got their.
Speaker 4 (42:26):
Own right, Right SO i man IF i had that,
ANSWER i wish more clubs had some resources for those
kinds of.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Conversations but that's where your. Strength that's WHERE i think
having a strength and conditioning coach or a technical trainer
or a speed coach really is good for the, athletes
not only because of what they're doing to your, game
but what you're doing to your headspace because it gives
because they don't control you're playing, time what position you,
(43:03):
play they don't control your grades on a, test they
don't they don't control that you're. Recruiting they're just there
to help you get, better and they're there to listen
to you and to just let you. Vent AND i
think more kids need that BECAUSE i take it one
of the worst things. THOUGH i used to have HIGH
(43:27):
Highs DIVISION ie level type players that would come to
me and, SAY i only enjoy soccer When i'm training with.
YOU i used to be, like that is not a
compliment that hurts because Because i'm you know, again why
is it CALLED i hate? Soccer it's That why are
(43:50):
we turning this sport into something that they used to
love and too something that is a Job at fourteen
and fifteen years. OLD i understand The DIVISION ie level
being a. Job At division two level being a, JOB
i understand, That but why are we doing that at
fourteenth at? Fifteen it?
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Sucks it does, Suck it does.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
SUCK i think that's the Real if there's anything THAT
i could THAT i try and, do if anybody, ever you,
know reaches out or ass or anything like, that like
you know that that coaching philosophy should root in the
joy of being physical first and foremost, right the that
sense of euphoria that comes from training really, hard managing
(44:33):
that positive, pain converted it into self, confidence committing to
team orientation and finding real purpose and winning right and
and not in a selfish way and not in a
you know this negative, well it's always.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
Political the coach hates, me you, Know and that's.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Conditioned all that stuff is conditioned through parents and coaches
and other. Players and it's, like, man where has the
love of the game? Gone and you, KNOW i think you're.
RIGHT i think that's the thing that we need to
get back to for.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Sure and it's just the relationship. Building i'll bring Back
Dusty may BECAUSE i know What Dusty may does behind the,
scenes because of what how often he's talking To trey
and and and just making sure that it's not just
the x's and, o's it's about you as the player.
Too and going back to your question about talking to
(45:25):
parents and, Stuff Dusty may Called trey's dad and, said
don't believe the. Rumors i'm not going. Anywhere it's like
even the world class coaches Like Dusty may is talking to,
parents but all these youth coaches that coach at you
FOURTEEN b, team LIKE i don't talk to parents Because
i'm the. Best it's, like what are we?
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Doing i'm, Sorry, JASON I i, man we got to
wrap it up.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Now i'm. SORRY i could talk to you for days about.
This maybe we went in the next few. Minutes, YEAH
i would love to come, back.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Man AND i just think your wisdom and what you've
learned in this endeavor is so. Fascinating where can people
listen to the, podcast how they can follow? You and
what's the name of your own individual? TRAINING i hate
soccer Podcast it's on. Everything it's a, YouTube, Apple. SPOTIFY
i hate soccer. Podcasts instagram is ALSO i hate soccer. Podcasts.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Training i've actually kind of closed my training company. DOWN i,
KNOW i was In, buffalo AND i got to a
point where a lot of people In buffalo wouldn't talk to,
me they wouldn't come on the. Show So i'm, like, Wow,
oh But michigan is a different. Beast michigan is more
(46:45):
of a. Hotbed there's more, clubs there's more, colleges there's
more high level. Colleges we Got michigan And Michigan state
right down the. Street So i'm, like you know, what
IF i really want to go after this, PODCAST i
need to move home And i'm back In, Michigan And,
oh that's. Great and Then i'm just focusing on this
because it's all about. IMPACT i felt that through my training,
(47:07):
COMPANY i made more of an impact than IF i
was a club. Coach, yeah and now i feel Like
i'm almost making more of an impact of the podcast
THAN i.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
Did As.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
Oh of, course it's absolutely. Genius AND i love that you're.
UNBIASED i love that you have people at every level
on people run, programs, clubs great, coaches, Players anybody who's,
listening if you know anybody that's a part of the
club soccer in any, way shape or, form this is
the podcast for. You i'm telling you it's so. Good
(47:37):
he's so, Good. Jason i'm so Happy i've found. You
you've got a huge fan of. ME i totally respect
that you tackle this and good luck and keep up
the great work.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
Man god bless, you. Buddy thank you you.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Too Thanks, david
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