March 25, 2025 • 36 mins
Hour 1 of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show kicks off with engaging discussions on the latest news and hot topics. Clay and Buck delve into the day's headline story about a significant security breach involving a group chat on the Signal app, where National Security Advisor Mike Waltz accidentally added Jeffrey Goldberg, editor of The Atlantic. They explore the implications of this mistake, the importance of operational security, and the potential political fallout. The hosts also share personal anecdotes and insights into the use of encrypted communication apps like Signal, emphasizing the need for updated communication standards in defense industries. Clay and Buck humorously discuss the questions their wives submitted for Dr. Laura, highlighting her influence and the practical advice she offers. This segment sets the stage for Dr. Laura's appearance in hour 2, promising valuable relationship insights for listeners. Additionally, breaking news about a ceasefire agreement between Ukraine and Russia in the Black Sea is covered, with Clay and Buck analyzing its potential impact on global trade and deflationary pressures. They also touch on the broader geopolitical implications and the role of diplomacy in resolving conflicts. The hour concludes with a discussion on the importance of being well-informed and prepared to counter misinformation, ensuring listeners are equipped with the knowledge to navigate current events confidently.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all of
you hanging out with us as we are rolling through
the Tuesday edition of the program. I promise that all
my texts are going to the right people as we
begin with the story of the day. So you know,
by the way, a part of me feels like I
(00:22):
should just bail on the show right now, Buck, because
we have doctor Laura, famous doctor Laura. Is it slashinger?
Is that her last name? I think, if I'm not mistaken,
many of you know doctor Laura. She's a relationship expert.
Producer Ali sent messages to our wives saying, hey, can
(00:43):
you potentially fill out, you know, do a thirty second
talkback question for doctor Laura relationship expert. I am told
that my wife said thirty seconds is not enough and
sent in a two minute long question, And a part
of me feels like, Buck, I should I just just.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Wave right now and just go ahead and leave.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I have no idea what the question that my wife's
sent in was, but she needed two minutes instead of
thirty seconds. So anyway, that's our two our only guest today,
doctor Laura, featuring a question from my wife Laura and
your wife Carrie like wanted less less, had less go.
(01:23):
She hasn't been married twenty years, but she has written
a question correct for doctor Laura. She preferred to just
write it out and I will read the question to
doctor Laura. So both of our wives took different different
pathways on this one. I would just say, though the
reason I know I did not I had heard of
doctor Laura before. I know she had a very big
show for a long time on radio. But it's because
(01:44):
sometimes my wife, like right after we got married, for example,
you know, Carrie would I would come home or there'd
be dinner on the table, and she would say things like, well,
you know, doctor Laura says. And I noticed this trend
of whenever Carrie would say doctor Laura says about relationship thing,
I was like, Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I like that, that's good. This is healthy.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
You think she gives good advice in general, based on
your experience, excellent advice From my own experience of a
wife who's been listening to doctor Laura for many, many years,
Everything that she has picked up from doctor Laura, including
some of the tough love stuff, is you know for
the audience is very solid. Well, I'm excited for that.
That is our two speaking of tough love. All right,
(02:27):
So newest story, if you have not heard, is that
as we prepared to bomb the uties, which by the way,
I think was totally the right decision to try to
free up shipping lanes and send a message Churon, there
was a group chat. Based on my research, Buck, you
can correct me if I'm wrong on any of these facts,
(02:47):
I think there were eighteen people involved in a group
chat on the Signal app, which is designed to be
a high privacy way to basically send text messages outside
of doing so from a regular cell phone network or
an Apple cell phone network. I would imagine most of
(03:08):
you probably are sending text messages and if you have
an Apple phone or an Apple device, they're blue. If
you're sending outside of the Apple universe, they're green. I
don't know what do you think maybe ten percent of
our audience has downloaded the Signal app. The Signal app
I have it on my phone is sometimes ways that
people I've noticed it in media in particular, that want
(03:31):
to communicate things, but they don't want to send them
on a traditional text message network because they're concerned about
somebody else surveilling them. For lack of a better way
to describe this now as end the end encryption. It's
considered one of the better platforms for privacy and security
out there. But there's what's good for your privacy and
(03:53):
security versus what a nation state entity can break into
and can surveil. Right, So it's one thing for you
and me to sit here and say, well, I'm not
worried about some random hacker getting our information. It's a
different thing to say, can the Chinese communist parties intelligence
apparatus get our information?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
That's the question.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
So in this I believe it was eighteen people accidentally.
This is unfortunate. It appears National Security advisor Mike Waltz
added Jonah Goldberg, who is the editor of The Atlantic,
and in general, probably there are a lot of people
you could have added the editor of Atlantic to this
(04:39):
group chat was not the person that you wanted to add.
And now that the price of eggs are back to normal,
remember that talking point. And now that the stock market
SMP five hundred at least is back above where it
was on election day, they need a new talking point
for Trump is awful, And the new talking point is
this inc ription failure.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Did you say it's Jeffrey Goldberg. What did I call him?
I think you said Jonah, who has made jokes about
how he is not Jeffrey Goldberg. Jonah Goldberg is a
different media Goldberg. I thought you were making Joe there.
I was waiting for you to to point this out.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
It's Jeffrey Hilliberg of the Atlantic, my bad, not the
actor from the Big Short Race. Is that the wrong guy,
Jonah Hill.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Get your Goldberg straight?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I am, I am, I am out to lunch here
already on the start anyway.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
This guy is the editor. He's not a movie star.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
He is not a fat person who has the same
name Jonah that got skinny and then got fat again
because his career collapsed when he got too skinny. This
is not Jonah Hill, not Jonah Goldberg. Jeffrey Goldberg, editor
at the Atlantic. All right, So he is on this
text thread and he decides that he's going to write
about the security failure for The Atlantic? Does it yesterday afternoon,
(05:58):
about time our show ended, And so it has been
the biggest story in the last twenty four hours. Okay,
so clearly I'm not the intelligence expert here. Let me
go to you first, Buck, Like, we know Pete, we
know JD, we know probably most of the people on
this text thread. You certainly know everybody probably on this
text Thug.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
And then these are some of these individuals are friends
of ours and we just say that by way of disclosure,
or there are people that we are friends with, have
socialized with. So you know, I'm going to be as
unbiased as I can in this situation. Right, But when
I'm talking about someone like Pete or Tulsi their friends,
they're patriots. I know where their heart is, I know
what they're trying to do for the country, and so
(06:37):
I comment everything from that perspective first. But let me
just I'll back back into this play for a second.
First up, I don't want to help the Democrats in
any way in this moment in time by giving them
more than they should have in terms of political ammunition.
All right, So that's we are cognizant of that. Here.
It was, as you mentioned, the price of eggs, all
the price of eggs, all the stock market. Now it's oh,
(06:59):
the national security. They need to calm down, take a
step back and recognize that the situation they're in right
now as a political entity. The Democrats are in this
situation because their party went insane, and they deserve exactly
what they are going through right now. They sort of
excruciating humiliation of Trump doing all the things that he's
(07:19):
doing to better the country. Okay, they should like it,
but they don't. They find it humiliating. National security and
classification classification is broken down by the expected possible harm
that could be done due to unauthorized disclosure. So I
think that's an important foundational understanding of this. Right, So
(07:40):
when you talk about confidential, secret, top secret, compartmented, these
things exist. They are separated based upon the sensitivity, generally
of the sources and methods of the collection. Right, So
if if some guy on the street somewhere shares his
opinion about whether there's going to be like an Arab
(08:00):
spring revolution, you know that's going to be confidential, maybe
because if he told it to people in a public forum,
but you don't want his name to be out there
too much, or you know he set it out in public. Anyway,
you go all the way up the chain. If we
have some super secret squirrel laser from outer space that
could zap all of the information they have in like
the Kremlin. Okay, well, that's going to be very high level.
(08:23):
The stuff that I have seen so far that they
have talked about here. We have to keep in mind
that Pete and others have said it's not classified. And
now here's the thing. I don't think that they would
lie about that because it's something it's something that Jeffrey
Goldberg got to be here. Jeffrey Goldberg could make them
look particularly foolish and dishonest on top of everything if
(08:47):
they said, oh, this isn't classified, and then he shares
the screenshots, which I'm sure he has. He's already shared
some that shows it is clearly classified. This information did
not get out before these strikes were taken. From a
national security harm perspective, there was no harm. Let's start
with that. There was no harm. And you know, Jeffrey Goldberg,
(09:08):
I think recognized you are an American, like this is
important stuff. Do not mess with an impending military strike
because you think it'll get more clicks. That is just
that is true. That is fair. Right. He didn't try to,
And sometimes journalists really do, like The New York Times
has done things in the past where I've said they
are sabotaging American national security. I do not think that
that happened here, and I think that that's to all
(09:30):
of our benefit. And I'm not sure that it could
have happened because I'm not sure that the information that
could have been shared would have been sensitive enough to
change things around. So nothing bad happened here in terms
of US national security. The harm was non realized. Whether
it could have been realized or not, as a question
whether there was anything classified in there, Okay, Clay. Then
(09:51):
we get to the next part of this, which is
operational security OPSEC. This is a blunder. Obviously, there's no
way around that. You don't want a journalist that you
don't know is on the text thread getting access to
anything that you're talking about as a senior policy official.
So this is where Trump has already come out and
said there was a lesson learned here, and you know,
(10:14):
we're going to tighten things up going forward. This is
not the oh my gosh Watergate moment that the media
is pretending that it is because they want to attack
the administration. I got still a lot of questions because
I'm a regular, you know, sort of not super sophisticated
person when it comes to sharing information like this. So
(10:37):
let me ask you this question, and I think we
can probably take some of the questions from from listeners
because you're an expert in this. How much of this
buck is about the fact that it's very difficult to
get all of these people in one room when they're
presumably traveling all over the world. And shouldn't we have
(10:58):
a method of communication given that these guys for the most.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Part, are around our age. People like you and me
and a lot of people our age are used to
communicating on rapid fashion in these group text chains, whether
it's serious things or not serious things. And to me,
it oftentimes I would think would be difficult to get
everybody on secure lines so that eighteen people all over
(11:23):
the world could have a conversation about this.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Does that make sense? This is where yeah, absolutely, this
is where operational security comes in. And I will say,
at my time in the CIA, this was taken incredibly
seriously and with good reason because we were doing we
the US government, maybe we the CIA, who knows we
were doing drone strikes. We were doing operational hits on
(11:47):
high value target you know, we were doing takedowns of
cells that we're going to try to blow up a
whole bunch of planes. I mean that there was and
we knew about that stuff before it was happening. Right,
if we're working with a partner nation, if Jaysack is
going to go in and do a raid, I mean,
look at something like the Binlanen raid for example. So
there was a need for operational security at a very
high level. We understood that everybody is always their own
(12:10):
really first and last line of classification and reality. Meaning
I'm not saying that that's technically true, but meaning you
determined in all of your communications. If I'm talking to
somebody on the phone and I'm not being careful, I
could bleed over into classified talk instantaneously. Right, So it's
on everybody to be protecting sensitive information all the time
(12:30):
who has access to it, Because there's no such thing
as I'm only this, I think goes to your question, Clay,
I'm only operating on the high side. I'm only operating
on classified networks. No, you have to be taking phone calls.
You have to be calling your wife or your husband
and saying I'm gonna be home late to night, honey. Right,
So you're always going to be interacting in the low
side of the high side classified an unclassified world. Did
(12:52):
they bleed over a little too much here? That's part
of that. That's a question that people are fighting over
right now. I haven't really seen much to suggest that
they did. And I and again I think that they
This isn't like they can get away with lying about
it because Goldberg would have had the screenshots. But do
you want there's more here? I want to.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I just I have a layman's knowledge here, and I
actually just have a lot of questions. I also think
there are people out there. If you know that you
are on a group chat that you shouldn't be on,
shouldn't you leave it? Or tell people?
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Hey?
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Like the fact that he stayed on this thing and
allowed all these text messages to come in seems suspect
to me as well.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Well. Absolutely, But you know, journalists, it's interesting now because
you realize the journalists are really mostly activists. Clay and
I would say one thing that has always been it's
kind of funny to me is when people will say
to me that I'm talking to you know, we're off
the record here, right, And I sit there and I go,
I have to say, we're on the record. For if
(13:56):
anyone's talking to me as a human being, and they
think that they have my confidence. I don't break that.
I don't care, you know, government official, person in my
private life, you know whatever. If you think you're talking
to me Buck as a person that you can trust,
you can trust me. But journalists operate in this other space.
If they get to determine what's in the you know,
what the public needs to know and not. And what
(14:18):
we find out is that really it's whether it hurts
my party or not, which is where the Goldberg situation
comes in. This is why I've never been an anonymous
source in any story that I'm aware of. Like, if
I'm going to be quoted, I just tell you exactly
what I think. For better or worse, I tell you
exactly what I think. I don't want to be somebody
who's giving an anonymous quote. I don't think I've ever
done it. And but yeah, to your point, let's have
(14:41):
more conversations about this. By the way, if you have
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Speaker 2 (16:03):
Welcome back into Clay and Buck. We've got some breaking news.
We're gonna get back to the discussion of what's being
treated as the biggest news story in the country, which
is a signal thing. Again, I don't think it's that
big of a deal, and that's why we're giving you
all of the truth around it and the context you
need so that when your lib neighbors like dangered national security, Please,
it's gonna be fine. All right. Libs need to calm down.
(16:25):
You need to figure out something other than just crying
all the time. But we have breaking news here. I
just want to bring you because we're live, as you know,
I want to bring you up to speed as soon
as we go. The White House says that Ukraine and
Russia have agreed to cease fighting in the Black Sea
and a halt to strikes on energy facilities. This is
just breaking news now in the last couple of minutes,
(16:47):
and Clay, it is certainly an advance in the right
direction here toward a cease fire, diplomacy and negotiation.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
No doubt, and this would be huge. It already is
a big deal because the interdiction and danger that has
been involved in trying to use the Black Sea for instance.
We talked about this a couple of weeks ago, but
Ukraine is one of the largest grain producing countries in
the world. If we can get trade to be able
(17:20):
to resume across this area, it would actually have massive
deflationary impacts because Russian oil would come on the markets
again and we would be able to get goods cheaper.
So this could be a huge win. Not only as
Trump said to me on Saturday, twenty five hundred people
a week are still dying in this war right now,
(17:42):
and he would I think if he gets this thing
brought to a close, I think he would deserve the
Nobel Peace Prize. I don't think there's any doubt at
all in terms of significance to end the biggest war
in Europe and since.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
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Speaker 1 (18:57):
Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Second show. All Right,
good news coming out of Ukraine. As that continues to move,
we hope towards a resolution and a ceasefire. We are
talking about the Signal story, the discussion that involved Jeffrey Goldberg,
an Atlantic editor and writer, and some people including Brian here.
(19:19):
When we make a mistake. Your job is not to
keep the story alive. Sometimes you should just shut the
f up. Appreciate Brian send me that email. I have
a very different opinion. I think our job is to
be honest with all of you about big stories, and
sometimes when big stories are being talked about in a
(19:40):
way that we think is dishonest, we should explain to
you why. When you're getting on Facebook and you're seeing
somebody sharing a story that isn't representative of what actually happened,
or when you are out and about and somebody in
your social circle brings something up, we want to make
sure that you are well informed with every possible argument.
(20:01):
This is the biggest story of the day so far,
and I think we have a responsibility and obligation to
talk about it intelligently, even if it's not the perfect story.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
And so.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
You know, Brian, I appreciate the email, but my job
is to tell you exactly what I think, good or bad.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
And if you don't like that.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
There's lots of people who will tell you only what
you want to hear every minute of every day. I
think it will keep you worse informed. But that's just
I think a fundamental disagreement that we have about what
exactly we're doing here.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
So I think I think that we always have, you know,
there are few things that we have to serve this
serve this audience daily, right, and that's always you know,
we just did an interview recently about crossing five hundred
and fifty five stations, you know, no big deal, and
Clay and I were talking to people in the media
about how, you know, we work for all of you
and day in and day out, and we want to
bring you the best information we can. So if you
(20:58):
listen to this show for an hour, you're gonna know
everything that's going on. And if you give us three hours,
we're hoping to, you know, give you a tremendous analysis
and fun and tell stories and right give you a
fully immersive experience. But one of the things, Clay, that
I think we do. Sorry I was I was weaving
there a little bit, guys, but you know, as one does.
One of the things that we do is I never
(21:18):
want anyone who listens to this show to feel like, oh,
but if I'm at a if I'm at a party,
or i'm at I'm at the office or wherever, and
someone challenges me on this issue. I'm not ready for it.
So exactly, I don't want you to be in a
situation where you're annoying sister in law or you know
(21:39):
your you're you know Bob from accounting or you know
Sally from from HR is like, did you see the
big national security mess up? Whatever? And you go, well,
I don't, I don't know. I've told We're telling you
everything you need to know about it. These are patriots,
they didn't mean any harm. There was no harm done.
Better practices next time. Sometimes mistakes happen, they will adjust
(22:04):
and it's not that big a deal. Okay, So that's
well said. When I was in the CIA and faced
imprisonment if I messed up these rules, so I know
what I'm talking about. Okay.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
So my thoughts couple of things as a layman here. One,
why do we not have our own version of a
signal app that could? And I want you to explain
this to me because I've been doing reading because I
want to know more about it.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
It's hard to.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Get everybody in a secure location when you've got people
traveling all over the world, and I think this is
important and you want to make sure that everyone is
well informed with what the United States government is doing
so that Tulca Gabbard doesn't turn on the television and
find out on Fox News that we have attacked to Hooties, right,
(22:52):
and maybe she's in Yemen or wherever the heck she
might be. And Pete Hegseth right now, I know because
the picture are out is touring the Pacific and these
eighteen people are in six different time zones and actually
the easiest way sometimes to communicate is text message. So
point one, shouldn't we have a design system that is
(23:17):
forward thinking from a security perspective for younger people who
are used to communicating in this manner. And by the way,
take it back one hundred years or eighty years or
whatever it was. And I'm sure people were like, we
can never communicate on the telephone any secret knowledge. Oh
(23:38):
my goodness, this is crazy. And then everybody who grew
up using the telephone expects for the devices to be
created that are able to be used in this method
Step one, step two. And this is just a layman question.
This guy Goldberg, I think he should have had to.
I mean, it feel to me like a big part
(24:01):
of this story is his dishonesty and also staying involved
in a conversation that he was aware he was never
intended to be tagged on, and yet he stayed in
there and continued to receive these messages. In your own lives,
if you were a part of a group text chain
that you were not intended to be on, which I
(24:24):
bet if you're under the age of fifty, is something
that has happened to almost everybody out there at some
point in time. Certainly, if you're under the age of forty,
wouldn't you just leave the group chat either publicly say hey,
wrong guy, or just leave on your own volition. The
fact that he stayed in there and kept receiving all
of these messages makes me think that his behavior was
(24:48):
quite nefarious, to say nothing of waiting to drop the.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Story like he did. Well, this is where journalists like
to have it both ways. Right, they're patriots and they
care about the country too. When I said or less,
I mean the journals right and the sky is an activist.
He's a left wing Democrat. This has been clear for
a long time. He was the one who had his
fingerprints all over the Trump Suckers and Losers thing from
Arlington Cemetery, which I never believed for one second. You know,
(25:15):
I'm not saying Trump is perfect, but Trump does not
think people who gave their lives fighting for the military
are losers. That was just total I mean I can't
even say on radio what it was is total nonsense.
But Clay, what they'll say is, well, I have as
a journalist, I need to know whatever I can find
out about the upper echelons of government, and you know,
the sharing of information and everything else that's going on there.
(25:38):
You know, I look, if I were on this and
I'm in tex contact with some of these people, to
be clear, I mean, this is the thing. This is
what happens when you have people from the media and
that you've known for many years who are now running
massive departments of the government. Clay, I know these people,
I know them personally.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Just this is how people who are under the age
of fifty overwhelmingly communicate. We don't get on bones and
have long conversations. Most of our communications is via text.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Right. But but what I'm what I'm you know, shining
a spotlight on is is just that, uh, you know,
these these are individuals who are doing the best practices
that they can to speak quickly to each other about
in about things that matter. And if I were on
if I felt like I was in, you know, in
(26:23):
the room, what I shouldn't be in the room, so
to speak, in this case, the chat room, I'd be like, hey, guys, Hey, guys,
I'm out because I wouldn't want them, as senior government
officials who've clearly made you know, I'm not a nefarious
foreign actor, right, I'm not. I'm not trying to run
information ops for Al Jazeera over here. If if I'm
(26:44):
in this, I would say, hey, guys, you know I'm
gonna duck out now. I know you've got to talk
about stuff because I'm an American and this is the
Secretary of Defense and the Director of National Intelligence. Yes,
and you know, my my desire to get a scoop
is infinitely less important to me then, especially when talking
about something on military strike, then my desire to protect
(27:06):
US national security secrets. I mean, look, I'll tell you.
I mean I had an example of this, Clay when
the Benghazi story broke on TV. I was actually on
air at the Blaze when Benghazi broke initially and we
went live for hours on it. I had to sit
there and be like I don't know what's going I
knew exactly what it happened in terms of like a
lot of stuff that came out, I'll just put it
that way. And I had to sit there and be
(27:28):
like no, because I had had classified access before and
it wasn't my place to blow in. So I just
sat there and was just as things were coming on
the news where I'm like, oh, look at that, look
at that. I could have been, Oh, let me tell
you what's really going on here and really what the
operations are, and you know, hey, you guys know I
was in CTC and the CIA, and here's no nothing.
Because my obligation to my clearance and to my country
(27:54):
matters a heck of a lot more than breaking the
story and getting some attention. And this is a different
thing in this era where we have a lot of
people that work in public facing jobs who have had
access to high level national security information. Right it's on
you as an American to always put country first over job.
(28:15):
You know, I mean, like like role in that I'm
not talking about job in the Pentagon, I mean job
in like a media organization. I could have been out
there telling everybody stuff about Benghazi that would have made
me the first guy, and they're like, oh, what's the
people like, what's the annex? And there's all this stuff,
and I'm like, I have no idea. Guys. I had
to sit there and be like, I don't know. And
it was early in my career, and I could have
been a big thing of it, but I knew what
(28:36):
those guys the risk that they had taken by being there.
I didn't know what the following operations were going to be.
I didn't know what was blown. I didn't know what
was going to happen. I didn't know anything, and so
I just sat there and had to just read information
as that came across the news wire like everybody else.
And I'm saying, you know, Jeffrey Goldberg is like, oh no,
I need to get the information as much of it
as I can, and then I'll make the determination about this.
(28:59):
Was that in the interest of national security, you don't
think you want to give these guys a heads up that, hey,
I'm not supposed to be on this chat. I mean,
to your point, yeah, what really matters to him? I
mean my initial reaction I'm on a group chat that
I don't think I should be on is Hey, I
want to get out. First of all, a lot of
you probably get dragged into your group chats, if you're
a mom or a dad, little league group chats, gymnastics
(29:21):
group chats, dance team group chat, like, oh my god,
do I need to be on this right? You might
want to get you might want to get out. But
if you're dragged into something that you know you have
no business seeing, I just it feels like to me
like you would immediately withdraw and not stay there. Second part,
and I want to get your answer on this when
(29:42):
we come back in the next do we need to
update communication capabilities and standards for people involved in defense industries?
Because I was I was actually just looking at Elon
Musk and he was talking about the government is so
far behind in the tech that often it has relative
(30:06):
to what other private sector organizations might have. In other words,
whatever you do for a living, if you're a if
you're in defense industries or something like that, I'm sure
they have high tech communications capabilities. How would these eighteen
people have.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Been able to talk if they're in four or five
different time zones all around the world, How can they
communicate easily?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Well, we have high I mean we have this, we
have high side, I mean, we have classify channels.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Well, I guess my question for you when we come back,
why would this conversation exist in the way that it does.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
There are there are the equivalent of let's say, let's
say there's the equivalent of text communication within the national
security sphere that is real time and that you can
it is classified classifiedly, you can talk about what you
need to talk about.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
When we come back. Then, why would a communication like
this be taking place? In your mind? What does it suggest? Again?
I think the ultimate result here is that nothing, thankfully,
very significant happened other than the embarrassment. And I think
primarily this is being played because it is relatively insignificant
(31:19):
in terms of its impact in this situation, more for
humor than anything else. And I think it's probably a
twenty four hour story that.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Will go away.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
But I do think it's worth talking about what exactly
should happen to ensure that something like this doesn't become
a bigger story in the years ahead. Look, you need
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Speaker 5 (32:44):
Making America great Again isn't just one man, It's many.
The Team forty seven podcast Sunday's at noon Eastern in
the Clay and Buck podcast feed. Find it on the
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
All right, Welcome back into Clay and Buck. I want
to tell you all make sure you're drinking Cracket coffee
because it celebrates American history. It's a company that you
are all building. We appreciate each and every one of
you who has tried the coffee so far. To our subscribers,
we love you. Thank you for becoming Crocket subscribers. And
as a little token of our appreciation, you can get
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(33:20):
use code book. Look, we're giving ten percent of the
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we're gonna have a whole new product. It's exciting, different
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(33:43):
on this one and go to Crocket Coffee Dot. It's
also delicious coffee. I drink it ever day. I'm gonna
go get some in a few minutes. Let's take some
calls here. Brett in Louisiana. What's going on, Brett?
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Hey, Clay Buck, thanks for taking my call, great job,
Thank you. My question are why did Waltz add Goldberg
to this chat? And uh, why has he even communicated
with this guy? And what else has he sent the Goldberg?
Speaker 2 (34:13):
I think that's an excellent I think that's an excellent question, Brett.
So let me say that President Trump is aware of
the situation and has said that Mike Walltz learned a lesson.
I believe Mike Waltz is reported as the guy who
added Goldberg. Now not to not to bring this up again, Clay,
but he may have had more than one, you know, Clay,
(34:34):
Clay said Jonah Jeffrey. You know, we're definitely getting different
names in here. Mike might have had more than one
Goldberg on his phone it or it might have also
just been the first initial of the name, which is
what happens in a lot of these uh you know,
AI enabled chat apps and things now where you know,
if I type in a C on my phone, it's
probably gonna show up as Clay because oh actually no,
(34:55):
to show up is carried my wife. Sorry, sorry, it'll
show up as my wife. I was trying to pick
on that, well, you know it'll show up his care bear,
but anyway, I will.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
The point is that it might have been an accident
in that regard. The other question, though, that Brett gets to,
is well, why would Joanah Goldberg? I'm sorry, Uh, Jeffrey,
Jeffrey Goldberg. Why would Jeffrey see Clay I blame you
for this? Why would Jeffrey Goldberg be on Mike Waltz's
contact list. I don't have regime media names in my
(35:29):
phone if I went through my email, because sometimes they'll
ask me for a comment or something, and I don't
talk to Democrat regime media as a rule. I just,
I mean, Clay likes to you know, Clay likes to
mock them and humiliate them. I just ignore them generally,
write fair, I think fair when they come after you,
do you enjoy Yes, yes, Clay likes to mix it
up with them. I just kind of, you know, ignore them.
(35:50):
But I don't have a good answer for that. You know,
I know Mike Walt's a bit. He's a good guy,
he's a patriot, he served his country SF many many years.
He'll give some kind of an answer to that, But
I know people Clay are like, why would you be
talking to somebody who's trying to destroy Trump? It's a
it's a fair question.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Unintentional seems to be clearly the answer. Maybe there was
somebody else again on it, But why is he in
his contact list?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Well, I don't have.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
I don't have Jeffrey Goldberg in my contact list. Same here,
I don't either. He was a congressman before. Maybe there
was some story that Goldberg wrote.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
I'm just I'm just working through why that would have happened.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
You know. It would have been like if you told
me that you tried to send me something and it
went to Paul Krugman instead, I'd be like, Clay, why
is Paul Krugman in your contact list?
Speaker 1 (36:40):
My big takeaway here is if I had been accidentally
added to this group chat, which could have happened, If
you had been absolutely accidentally added to this group chat,
we would immediately said, hey, guys, don't think I'm supposed
to be on here. Why is no one asking the question?
Why didn't he immediately just withdraw
Welcome in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all of
you hanging out with us as we are rolling through
the Tuesday edition of the program. I promise that all
my texts are going to the right people as we
begin with the story of the day. So you know,
by the way, a part of me feels like I
(00:22):
should just bail on the show right now, Buck, because
we have doctor Laura, famous doctor Laura. Is it slashinger?
Is that her last name? I think, if I'm not mistaken,
many of you know doctor Laura. She's a relationship expert.
Producer Ali sent messages to our wives saying, hey, can
(00:43):
you potentially fill out, you know, do a thirty second
talkback question for doctor Laura relationship expert. I am told
that my wife said thirty seconds is not enough and
sent in a two minute long question, And a part
of me feels like, Buck, I should I just just.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Wave right now and just go ahead and leave.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I have no idea what the question that my wife's
sent in was, but she needed two minutes instead of
thirty seconds. So anyway, that's our two our only guest today,
doctor Laura, featuring a question from my wife Laura and
your wife Carrie like wanted less less, had less go.
(01:23):
She hasn't been married twenty years, but she has written
a question correct for doctor Laura. She preferred to just
write it out and I will read the question to
doctor Laura. So both of our wives took different different
pathways on this one. I would just say, though the
reason I know I did not I had heard of
doctor Laura before. I know she had a very big
show for a long time on radio. But it's because
(01:44):
sometimes my wife, like right after we got married, for example,
you know, Carrie would I would come home or there'd
be dinner on the table, and she would say things like, well,
you know, doctor Laura says. And I noticed this trend
of whenever Carrie would say doctor Laura says about relationship thing,
I was like, Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I like that, that's good. This is healthy.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
You think she gives good advice in general, based on
your experience, excellent advice From my own experience of a
wife who's been listening to doctor Laura for many, many years,
Everything that she has picked up from doctor Laura, including
some of the tough love stuff, is you know for
the audience is very solid. Well, I'm excited for that.
That is our two speaking of tough love. All right,
(02:27):
So newest story, if you have not heard, is that
as we prepared to bomb the uties, which by the way,
I think was totally the right decision to try to
free up shipping lanes and send a message Churon, there
was a group chat. Based on my research, Buck, you
can correct me if I'm wrong on any of these facts,
(02:47):
I think there were eighteen people involved in a group
chat on the Signal app, which is designed to be
a high privacy way to basically send text messages outside
of doing so from a regular cell phone network or
an Apple cell phone network. I would imagine most of
(03:08):
you probably are sending text messages and if you have
an Apple phone or an Apple device, they're blue. If
you're sending outside of the Apple universe, they're green. I
don't know what do you think maybe ten percent of
our audience has downloaded the Signal app. The Signal app
I have it on my phone is sometimes ways that
people I've noticed it in media in particular, that want
(03:31):
to communicate things, but they don't want to send them
on a traditional text message network because they're concerned about
somebody else surveilling them. For lack of a better way
to describe this now as end the end encryption. It's
considered one of the better platforms for privacy and security
out there. But there's what's good for your privacy and
(03:53):
security versus what a nation state entity can break into
and can surveil. Right, So it's one thing for you
and me to sit here and say, well, I'm not
worried about some random hacker getting our information. It's a
different thing to say, can the Chinese communist parties intelligence
apparatus get our information?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
That's the question.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
So in this I believe it was eighteen people accidentally.
This is unfortunate. It appears National Security advisor Mike Waltz
added Jonah Goldberg, who is the editor of The Atlantic,
and in general, probably there are a lot of people
you could have added the editor of Atlantic to this
(04:39):
group chat was not the person that you wanted to add.
And now that the price of eggs are back to normal,
remember that talking point. And now that the stock market
SMP five hundred at least is back above where it
was on election day, they need a new talking point
for Trump is awful, And the new talking point is
this inc ription failure.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Did you say it's Jeffrey Goldberg. What did I call him?
I think you said Jonah, who has made jokes about
how he is not Jeffrey Goldberg. Jonah Goldberg is a
different media Goldberg. I thought you were making Joe there.
I was waiting for you to to point this out.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
It's Jeffrey Hilliberg of the Atlantic, my bad, not the
actor from the Big Short Race. Is that the wrong guy,
Jonah Hill.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Get your Goldberg straight?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I am, I am, I am out to lunch here
already on the start anyway.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
This guy is the editor. He's not a movie star.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
He is not a fat person who has the same
name Jonah that got skinny and then got fat again
because his career collapsed when he got too skinny. This
is not Jonah Hill, not Jonah Goldberg. Jeffrey Goldberg, editor
at the Atlantic. All right, So he is on this
text thread and he decides that he's going to write
about the security failure for The Atlantic? Does it yesterday afternoon,
(05:58):
about time our show ended, And so it has been
the biggest story in the last twenty four hours. Okay,
so clearly I'm not the intelligence expert here. Let me
go to you first, Buck, Like, we know Pete, we
know JD, we know probably most of the people on
this text thread. You certainly know everybody probably on this
text Thug.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
And then these are some of these individuals are friends
of ours and we just say that by way of disclosure,
or there are people that we are friends with, have
socialized with. So you know, I'm going to be as
unbiased as I can in this situation. Right, But when
I'm talking about someone like Pete or Tulsi their friends,
they're patriots. I know where their heart is, I know
what they're trying to do for the country, and so
(06:37):
I comment everything from that perspective first. But let me
just I'll back back into this play for a second.
First up, I don't want to help the Democrats in
any way in this moment in time by giving them
more than they should have in terms of political ammunition.
All right, So that's we are cognizant of that. Here.
It was, as you mentioned, the price of eggs, all
the price of eggs, all the stock market. Now it's oh,
(06:59):
the national security. They need to calm down, take a
step back and recognize that the situation they're in right
now as a political entity. The Democrats are in this
situation because their party went insane, and they deserve exactly
what they are going through right now. They sort of
excruciating humiliation of Trump doing all the things that he's
(07:19):
doing to better the country. Okay, they should like it,
but they don't. They find it humiliating. National security and
classification classification is broken down by the expected possible harm
that could be done due to unauthorized disclosure. So I
think that's an important foundational understanding of this. Right, So
(07:40):
when you talk about confidential, secret, top secret, compartmented, these
things exist. They are separated based upon the sensitivity, generally
of the sources and methods of the collection. Right, So
if if some guy on the street somewhere shares his
opinion about whether there's going to be like an Arab
(08:00):
spring revolution, you know that's going to be confidential, maybe
because if he told it to people in a public forum,
but you don't want his name to be out there
too much, or you know he set it out in public. Anyway,
you go all the way up the chain. If we
have some super secret squirrel laser from outer space that
could zap all of the information they have in like
the Kremlin. Okay, well, that's going to be very high level.
(08:23):
The stuff that I have seen so far that they
have talked about here. We have to keep in mind
that Pete and others have said it's not classified. And
now here's the thing. I don't think that they would
lie about that because it's something it's something that Jeffrey
Goldberg got to be here. Jeffrey Goldberg could make them
look particularly foolish and dishonest on top of everything if
(08:47):
they said, oh, this isn't classified, and then he shares
the screenshots, which I'm sure he has. He's already shared
some that shows it is clearly classified. This information did
not get out before these strikes were taken. From a
national security harm perspective, there was no harm. Let's start
with that. There was no harm. And you know, Jeffrey Goldberg,
(09:08):
I think recognized you are an American, like this is
important stuff. Do not mess with an impending military strike
because you think it'll get more clicks. That is just
that is true. That is fair. Right. He didn't try to,
And sometimes journalists really do, like The New York Times
has done things in the past where I've said they
are sabotaging American national security. I do not think that
that happened here, and I think that that's to all
(09:30):
of our benefit. And I'm not sure that it could
have happened because I'm not sure that the information that
could have been shared would have been sensitive enough to
change things around. So nothing bad happened here in terms
of US national security. The harm was non realized. Whether
it could have been realized or not, as a question
whether there was anything classified in there, Okay, Clay. Then
(09:51):
we get to the next part of this, which is
operational security OPSEC. This is a blunder. Obviously, there's no
way around that. You don't want a journalist that you
don't know is on the text thread getting access to
anything that you're talking about as a senior policy official.
So this is where Trump has already come out and
said there was a lesson learned here, and you know,
(10:14):
we're going to tighten things up going forward. This is
not the oh my gosh Watergate moment that the media
is pretending that it is because they want to attack
the administration. I got still a lot of questions because
I'm a regular, you know, sort of not super sophisticated
person when it comes to sharing information like this. So
(10:37):
let me ask you this question, and I think we
can probably take some of the questions from from listeners
because you're an expert in this. How much of this
buck is about the fact that it's very difficult to
get all of these people in one room when they're
presumably traveling all over the world. And shouldn't we have
(10:58):
a method of communication given that these guys for the most.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Part, are around our age. People like you and me
and a lot of people our age are used to
communicating on rapid fashion in these group text chains, whether
it's serious things or not serious things. And to me,
it oftentimes I would think would be difficult to get
everybody on secure lines so that eighteen people all over
(11:23):
the world could have a conversation about this.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Does that make sense? This is where yeah, absolutely, this
is where operational security comes in. And I will say,
at my time in the CIA, this was taken incredibly
seriously and with good reason because we were doing we
the US government, maybe we the CIA, who knows we
were doing drone strikes. We were doing operational hits on
(11:47):
high value target you know, we were doing takedowns of
cells that we're going to try to blow up a
whole bunch of planes. I mean that there was and
we knew about that stuff before it was happening. Right,
if we're working with a partner nation, if Jaysack is
going to go in and do a raid, I mean,
look at something like the Binlanen raid for example. So
there was a need for operational security at a very
high level. We understood that everybody is always their own
(12:10):
really first and last line of classification and reality. Meaning
I'm not saying that that's technically true, but meaning you
determined in all of your communications. If I'm talking to
somebody on the phone and I'm not being careful, I
could bleed over into classified talk instantaneously. Right, So it's
on everybody to be protecting sensitive information all the time
(12:30):
who has access to it, Because there's no such thing
as I'm only this, I think goes to your question, Clay,
I'm only operating on the high side. I'm only operating
on classified networks. No, you have to be taking phone calls.
You have to be calling your wife or your husband
and saying I'm gonna be home late to night, honey. Right,
So you're always going to be interacting in the low
side of the high side classified an unclassified world. Did
(12:52):
they bleed over a little too much here? That's part
of that. That's a question that people are fighting over
right now. I haven't really seen much to suggest that
they did. And I and again I think that they
This isn't like they can get away with lying about
it because Goldberg would have had the screenshots. But do
you want there's more here? I want to.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I just I have a layman's knowledge here, and I
actually just have a lot of questions. I also think
there are people out there. If you know that you
are on a group chat that you shouldn't be on,
shouldn't you leave it? Or tell people?
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Hey?
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Like the fact that he stayed on this thing and
allowed all these text messages to come in seems suspect
to me as well.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Well. Absolutely, But you know, journalists, it's interesting now because
you realize the journalists are really mostly activists. Clay and
I would say one thing that has always been it's
kind of funny to me is when people will say
to me that I'm talking to you know, we're off
the record here, right, And I sit there and I go,
I have to say, we're on the record. For if
(13:56):
anyone's talking to me as a human being, and they
think that they have my confidence. I don't break that.
I don't care, you know, government official, person in my
private life, you know whatever. If you think you're talking
to me Buck as a person that you can trust,
you can trust me. But journalists operate in this other space.
If they get to determine what's in the you know,
what the public needs to know and not. And what
(14:18):
we find out is that really it's whether it hurts
my party or not, which is where the Goldberg situation
comes in. This is why I've never been an anonymous
source in any story that I'm aware of. Like, if
I'm going to be quoted, I just tell you exactly
what I think. For better or worse, I tell you
exactly what I think. I don't want to be somebody
who's giving an anonymous quote. I don't think I've ever
done it. And but yeah, to your point, let's have
(14:41):
more conversations about this. By the way, if you have
talkbacks and you have questions for Buck in particular, because
he's the expert on a situation like this, and I'm
kind of fascinated by it and intrigued to learn more. Look,
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Speaker 4 (15:52):
Saving America, one thought at a time. Clay, Travis and
Buck Sexton. Find them the free iHeartRadio app or wherever
you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Welcome back into Clay and Buck. We've got some breaking news.
We're gonna get back to the discussion of what's being
treated as the biggest news story in the country, which
is a signal thing. Again, I don't think it's that
big of a deal, and that's why we're giving you
all of the truth around it and the context you
need so that when your lib neighbors like dangered national security, Please,
it's gonna be fine. All right. Libs need to calm down.
(16:25):
You need to figure out something other than just crying
all the time. But we have breaking news here. I
just want to bring you because we're live, as you know,
I want to bring you up to speed as soon
as we go. The White House says that Ukraine and
Russia have agreed to cease fighting in the Black Sea
and a halt to strikes on energy facilities. This is
just breaking news now in the last couple of minutes,
(16:47):
and Clay, it is certainly an advance in the right
direction here toward a cease fire, diplomacy and negotiation.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
No doubt, and this would be huge. It already is
a big deal because the interdiction and danger that has
been involved in trying to use the Black Sea for instance.
We talked about this a couple of weeks ago, but
Ukraine is one of the largest grain producing countries in
the world. If we can get trade to be able
(17:20):
to resume across this area, it would actually have massive
deflationary impacts because Russian oil would come on the markets
again and we would be able to get goods cheaper.
So this could be a huge win. Not only as
Trump said to me on Saturday, twenty five hundred people
a week are still dying in this war right now,
(17:42):
and he would I think if he gets this thing
brought to a close, I think he would deserve the
Nobel Peace Prize. I don't think there's any doubt at
all in terms of significance to end the biggest war
in Europe and since.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
World War Two. When the price of gold goes up,
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it's desirable, and just look at how much it is
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(18:16):
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Speaker 1 (18:57):
Welcome back in Clay Travis Buck Second show. All Right,
good news coming out of Ukraine. As that continues to move,
we hope towards a resolution and a ceasefire. We are
talking about the Signal story, the discussion that involved Jeffrey Goldberg,
an Atlantic editor and writer, and some people including Brian here.
(19:19):
When we make a mistake. Your job is not to
keep the story alive. Sometimes you should just shut the
f up. Appreciate Brian send me that email. I have
a very different opinion. I think our job is to
be honest with all of you about big stories, and
sometimes when big stories are being talked about in a
(19:40):
way that we think is dishonest, we should explain to
you why. When you're getting on Facebook and you're seeing
somebody sharing a story that isn't representative of what actually happened,
or when you are out and about and somebody in
your social circle brings something up, we want to make
sure that you are well informed with every possible argument.
(20:01):
This is the biggest story of the day so far,
and I think we have a responsibility and obligation to
talk about it intelligently, even if it's not the perfect story.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
And so.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
You know, Brian, I appreciate the email, but my job
is to tell you exactly what I think, good or bad.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
And if you don't like that.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
There's lots of people who will tell you only what
you want to hear every minute of every day. I
think it will keep you worse informed. But that's just
I think a fundamental disagreement that we have about what
exactly we're doing here.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
So I think I think that we always have, you know,
there are few things that we have to serve this
serve this audience daily, right, and that's always you know,
we just did an interview recently about crossing five hundred
and fifty five stations, you know, no big deal, and
Clay and I were talking to people in the media
about how, you know, we work for all of you
and day in and day out, and we want to
bring you the best information we can. So if you
(20:58):
listen to this show for an hour, you're gonna know
everything that's going on. And if you give us three hours,
we're hoping to, you know, give you a tremendous analysis
and fun and tell stories and right give you a
fully immersive experience. But one of the things, Clay, that
I think we do. Sorry I was I was weaving
there a little bit, guys, but you know, as one does.
One of the things that we do is I never
(21:18):
want anyone who listens to this show to feel like, oh,
but if I'm at a if I'm at a party,
or i'm at I'm at the office or wherever, and
someone challenges me on this issue. I'm not ready for it.
So exactly, I don't want you to be in a
situation where you're annoying sister in law or you know
(21:39):
your you're you know Bob from accounting or you know
Sally from from HR is like, did you see the
big national security mess up? Whatever? And you go, well,
I don't, I don't know. I've told We're telling you
everything you need to know about it. These are patriots,
they didn't mean any harm. There was no harm done.
Better practices next time. Sometimes mistakes happen, they will adjust
(22:04):
and it's not that big a deal. Okay, So that's
well said. When I was in the CIA and faced
imprisonment if I messed up these rules, so I know
what I'm talking about. Okay.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
So my thoughts couple of things as a layman here. One,
why do we not have our own version of a
signal app that could? And I want you to explain
this to me because I've been doing reading because I
want to know more about it.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
It's hard to.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Get everybody in a secure location when you've got people
traveling all over the world, and I think this is
important and you want to make sure that everyone is
well informed with what the United States government is doing
so that Tulca Gabbard doesn't turn on the television and
find out on Fox News that we have attacked to Hooties, right,
(22:52):
and maybe she's in Yemen or wherever the heck she
might be. And Pete Hegseth right now, I know because
the picture are out is touring the Pacific and these
eighteen people are in six different time zones and actually
the easiest way sometimes to communicate is text message. So
point one, shouldn't we have a design system that is
(23:17):
forward thinking from a security perspective for younger people who
are used to communicating in this manner. And by the way,
take it back one hundred years or eighty years or
whatever it was. And I'm sure people were like, we
can never communicate on the telephone any secret knowledge. Oh
(23:38):
my goodness, this is crazy. And then everybody who grew
up using the telephone expects for the devices to be
created that are able to be used in this method
Step one, step two. And this is just a layman question.
This guy Goldberg, I think he should have had to.
I mean, it feel to me like a big part
(24:01):
of this story is his dishonesty and also staying involved
in a conversation that he was aware he was never
intended to be tagged on, and yet he stayed in
there and continued to receive these messages. In your own lives,
if you were a part of a group text chain
that you were not intended to be on, which I
(24:24):
bet if you're under the age of fifty, is something
that has happened to almost everybody out there at some
point in time. Certainly, if you're under the age of forty,
wouldn't you just leave the group chat either publicly say hey,
wrong guy, or just leave on your own volition. The
fact that he stayed in there and kept receiving all
of these messages makes me think that his behavior was
(24:48):
quite nefarious, to say nothing of waiting to drop the.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Story like he did. Well, this is where journalists like
to have it both ways. Right, they're patriots and they
care about the country too. When I said or less,
I mean the journals right and the sky is an activist.
He's a left wing Democrat. This has been clear for
a long time. He was the one who had his
fingerprints all over the Trump Suckers and Losers thing from
Arlington Cemetery, which I never believed for one second. You know,
(25:15):
I'm not saying Trump is perfect, but Trump does not
think people who gave their lives fighting for the military
are losers. That was just total I mean I can't
even say on radio what it was is total nonsense.
But Clay, what they'll say is, well, I have as
a journalist, I need to know whatever I can find
out about the upper echelons of government, and you know,
the sharing of information and everything else that's going on there.
(25:38):
You know, I look, if I were on this and
I'm in tex contact with some of these people, to
be clear, I mean, this is the thing. This is
what happens when you have people from the media and
that you've known for many years who are now running
massive departments of the government. Clay, I know these people,
I know them personally.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Just this is how people who are under the age
of fifty overwhelmingly communicate. We don't get on bones and
have long conversations. Most of our communications is via text.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Right. But but what I'm what I'm you know, shining
a spotlight on is is just that, uh, you know,
these these are individuals who are doing the best practices
that they can to speak quickly to each other about
in about things that matter. And if I were on
if I felt like I was in, you know, in
(26:23):
the room, what I shouldn't be in the room, so
to speak, in this case, the chat room, I'd be like, hey, guys, Hey, guys,
I'm out because I wouldn't want them, as senior government
officials who've clearly made you know, I'm not a nefarious
foreign actor, right, I'm not. I'm not trying to run
information ops for Al Jazeera over here. If if I'm
(26:44):
in this, I would say, hey, guys, you know I'm
gonna duck out now. I know you've got to talk
about stuff because I'm an American and this is the
Secretary of Defense and the Director of National Intelligence. Yes,
and you know, my my desire to get a scoop
is infinitely less important to me then, especially when talking
about something on military strike, then my desire to protect
(27:06):
US national security secrets. I mean, look, I'll tell you.
I mean I had an example of this, Clay when
the Benghazi story broke on TV. I was actually on
air at the Blaze when Benghazi broke initially and we
went live for hours on it. I had to sit
there and be like I don't know what's going I
knew exactly what it happened in terms of like a
lot of stuff that came out, I'll just put it
that way. And I had to sit there and be
(27:28):
like no, because I had had classified access before and
it wasn't my place to blow in. So I just
sat there and was just as things were coming on
the news where I'm like, oh, look at that, look
at that. I could have been, Oh, let me tell
you what's really going on here and really what the
operations are, and you know, hey, you guys know I
was in CTC and the CIA, and here's no nothing.
Because my obligation to my clearance and to my country
(27:54):
matters a heck of a lot more than breaking the
story and getting some attention. And this is a different
thing in this era where we have a lot of
people that work in public facing jobs who have had
access to high level national security information. Right it's on
you as an American to always put country first over job.
(28:15):
You know, I mean, like like role in that I'm
not talking about job in the Pentagon, I mean job
in like a media organization. I could have been out
there telling everybody stuff about Benghazi that would have made
me the first guy, and they're like, oh, what's the
people like, what's the annex? And there's all this stuff,
and I'm like, I have no idea. Guys. I had
to sit there and be like, I don't know. And
it was early in my career, and I could have
been a big thing of it, but I knew what
(28:36):
those guys the risk that they had taken by being there.
I didn't know what the following operations were going to be.
I didn't know what was blown. I didn't know what
was going to happen. I didn't know anything, and so
I just sat there and had to just read information
as that came across the news wire like everybody else.
And I'm saying, you know, Jeffrey Goldberg is like, oh no,
I need to get the information as much of it
as I can, and then I'll make the determination about this.
(28:59):
Was that in the interest of national security, you don't
think you want to give these guys a heads up that, hey,
I'm not supposed to be on this chat. I mean,
to your point, yeah, what really matters to him? I
mean my initial reaction I'm on a group chat that
I don't think I should be on is Hey, I
want to get out. First of all, a lot of
you probably get dragged into your group chats, if you're
a mom or a dad, little league group chats, gymnastics
(29:21):
group chats, dance team group chat, like, oh my god,
do I need to be on this right? You might
want to get you might want to get out. But
if you're dragged into something that you know you have
no business seeing, I just it feels like to me
like you would immediately withdraw and not stay there. Second part,
and I want to get your answer on this when
(29:42):
we come back in the next do we need to
update communication capabilities and standards for people involved in defense industries?
Because I was I was actually just looking at Elon
Musk and he was talking about the government is so
far behind in the tech that often it has relative
(30:06):
to what other private sector organizations might have. In other words,
whatever you do for a living, if you're a if
you're in defense industries or something like that, I'm sure
they have high tech communications capabilities. How would these eighteen
people have.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Been able to talk if they're in four or five
different time zones all around the world, How can they
communicate easily?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Well, we have high I mean we have this, we
have high side, I mean, we have classify channels.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Well, I guess my question for you when we come back,
why would this conversation exist in the way that it does.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
There are there are the equivalent of let's say, let's
say there's the equivalent of text communication within the national
security sphere that is real time and that you can
it is classified classifiedly, you can talk about what you
need to talk about.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
When we come back. Then, why would a communication like
this be taking place? In your mind? What does it suggest? Again?
I think the ultimate result here is that nothing, thankfully,
very significant happened other than the embarrassment. And I think
primarily this is being played because it is relatively insignificant
(31:19):
in terms of its impact in this situation, more for
humor than anything else. And I think it's probably a
twenty four hour story that.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Will go away.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
But I do think it's worth talking about what exactly
should happen to ensure that something like this doesn't become
a bigger story in the years ahead. Look, you need
energy to thrive during the course of the day, and
that's why you need chalk. We were talking about our
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(31:50):
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Speaker 2 (31:51):
Man, it gives you more energy.
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It can increase overall your testosterone by twenty percent in
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Speaker 5 (32:44):
Making America great Again isn't just one man, It's many.
The Team forty seven podcast Sunday's at noon Eastern in
the Clay and Buck podcast feed. Find it on the
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
All right, Welcome back into Clay and Buck. I want
to tell you all make sure you're drinking Cracket coffee
because it celebrates American history. It's a company that you
are all building. We appreciate each and every one of
you who has tried the coffee so far. To our subscribers,
we love you. Thank you for becoming Crocket subscribers. And
as a little token of our appreciation, you can get
still a signed copy of Clay's American Playbook if you
(33:20):
use code book. Look, we're giving ten percent of the
profits the Tunnel the Towers Foundation. A couple of weeks,
we're gonna have a whole new product. It's exciting, different
than what a lot of you were thinking. It's gonna
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(33:43):
on this one and go to Crocket Coffee Dot. It's
also delicious coffee. I drink it ever day. I'm gonna
go get some in a few minutes. Let's take some
calls here. Brett in Louisiana. What's going on, Brett?
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Hey, Clay Buck, thanks for taking my call, great job,
Thank you. My question are why did Waltz add Goldberg
to this chat? And uh, why has he even communicated
with this guy? And what else has he sent the Goldberg?
Speaker 2 (34:13):
I think that's an excellent I think that's an excellent question, Brett.
So let me say that President Trump is aware of
the situation and has said that Mike Walltz learned a lesson.
I believe Mike Waltz is reported as the guy who
added Goldberg. Now not to not to bring this up again, Clay,
but he may have had more than one, you know, Clay,
(34:34):
Clay said Jonah Jeffrey. You know, we're definitely getting different
names in here. Mike might have had more than one
Goldberg on his phone it or it might have also
just been the first initial of the name, which is
what happens in a lot of these uh you know,
AI enabled chat apps and things now where you know,
if I type in a C on my phone, it's
probably gonna show up as Clay because oh actually no,
(34:55):
to show up is carried my wife. Sorry, sorry, it'll
show up as my wife. I was trying to pick
on that, well, you know it'll show up his care bear,
but anyway, I will.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
The point is that it might have been an accident
in that regard. The other question, though, that Brett gets to,
is well, why would Joanah Goldberg? I'm sorry, Uh, Jeffrey,
Jeffrey Goldberg. Why would Jeffrey see Clay I blame you
for this? Why would Jeffrey Goldberg be on Mike Waltz's
contact list. I don't have regime media names in my
(35:29):
phone if I went through my email, because sometimes they'll
ask me for a comment or something, and I don't
talk to Democrat regime media as a rule. I just,
I mean, Clay likes to you know, Clay likes to
mock them and humiliate them. I just ignore them generally,
write fair, I think fair when they come after you,
do you enjoy Yes, yes, Clay likes to mix it
up with them. I just kind of, you know, ignore them.
(35:50):
But I don't have a good answer for that. You know,
I know Mike Walt's a bit. He's a good guy,
he's a patriot, he served his country SF many many years.
He'll give some kind of an answer to that, But
I know people Clay are like, why would you be
talking to somebody who's trying to destroy Trump? It's a
it's a fair question.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Unintentional seems to be clearly the answer. Maybe there was
somebody else again on it, But why is he in
his contact list?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Well, I don't have.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
I don't have Jeffrey Goldberg in my contact list. Same here,
I don't either. He was a congressman before. Maybe there
was some story that Goldberg wrote.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
I'm just I'm just working through why that would have happened.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
You know. It would have been like if you told
me that you tried to send me something and it
went to Paul Krugman instead, I'd be like, Clay, why
is Paul Krugman in your contact list?
Speaker 1 (36:40):
My big takeaway here is if I had been accidentally
added to this group chat, which could have happened, If
you had been absolutely accidentally added to this group chat,
we would immediately said, hey, guys, don't think I'm supposed
to be on here. Why is no one asking the question?
Why didn't he immediately just withdraw
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