June 10, 2026 • 37 mins
Buck Sexton delivers a focused and provocative analysis of breaking criminal justice news, cultural tensions, and public safety concerns, with a major emphasis on the high-profile Carmelo Anthony murder conviction. Buck unpacks the jury’s decision to sentence Anthony to 35 years in prison for fatally stabbing Austin Metcalf at a high school track meet, framing the case as a clear-cut example of violent crime that demanded accountability under the rule of law. Buck stresses that the incident was not self-defense but a deliberate and disproportionate act of violence, using the case to highlight broader debates about self-defense laws, criminal justice standards, and societal expectations around personal conduct and conflict resolution. A significant portion of Hour 2 explores the reaction to the verdict, particularly criticism and protests outside the courthouse. Buck examines claims from some demonstrators that the justice system is racially biased, rejecting these arguments and discussing what they view as a growing narrative within parts of the media and activist circles that mischaracterizes violent incidents through a racial lens. He addresses the role of media bias, identity politics, and public perception, arguing that these narratives can distort clear legal realities and undermine trust in institutions. The conversation expands into a broader discussion of race relations in America, systemic bias debates, and cultural narratives, with Buck asserting that while racism exists globally, the United States remains comparatively tolerant. Buck emphasizes the importance of individual accountability regardless of race, while also acknowledging feedback from listeners with differing viewpoints, including perspectives on fairness, presumption of innocence, and comparisons to other controversial self-defense cases. In the latter half of Hour 2, the focus shifts to urban crime and everyday public safety, highlighted by a fatal shooting on a New York City bus that began as a dispute over loud behavior. Buck connects this incident to rising concerns about antisocial behavior in public spaces, escalating violence, and declining social norms, arguing that seemingly minor confrontations increasingly carry the risk of deadly outcomes. He discusses how behavior such as loud phone use or disruptive conduct can provoke dangerous situations and reference expert analysis suggesting such actions are sometimes intentionally provocative.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Second hour of play and Buck kicks off right now.
Thank you so much for being here with us. And
the Carmelo Anthony verdict came down right after we finished
this program yesterday, so we had not a chance to
talk to you about the result. It was looking like
a conviction was like was likely right as we were
(00:23):
finishing up yesterday. Because usually when a jury in a
case like this comes back quickly, I think it's bad
for the defense, right, That's that's the generule of thumb.
Obviously not not ironclad, but that usually is the way
that it goes. And this whole thing is a tragedy.
(00:44):
It's heartbreaking for the metcalf family. Also, you know this,
this Carmelo Anthony fellow as a young man who's also
basically thrown his life away. He will now he will
be able to have a relationship with God from prison
(01:04):
hopefully and can repent. And you know this is where
this is heading, my friends, because he got thirty five years,
he got a hefty sentence. He will be eligible for
parole I think after fifteen years, so if he is
now nineteen, he will be what thirty Oh gosh, I
(01:24):
never should try to do math on the fly. On
the show, but thirty four years old when he gets
out for parole, and that's if the parole board said
maybe they will not let him out. That's obviously also
subject to the determination of those individuals in the future.
But here's here's the long and the short of it.
(01:46):
He was somewhere at a high school track meet that
he wasn't supposed to be. High school kids sometimes will
you know, say things to each other, whether especially in
a sports environment, that can be a little bit abrasive
or maybe even aggressive. But you're in high school, there
are people around you, there are adults that are folks present.
(02:10):
You shouldn't pull out a knife and stab somebody the
heart and kill them for no good reason whatsoever. This
is a very straightforward This is a choice. This is
a choice between civilization and barbarism. That's it. Is it wrong?
Can we as a society clearly say it is wrong
to take out a night I mean, also, I just
(02:31):
just to note this a long time ago, I actually
had and I'm by no means an expert, but I
had some basic edged weapons training when I was in
the agency, and a part of that was our big
part of it's actually in the early days anatomy and
understanding bleeds. To pull out a knife and to stab
someone right in the heart. You know, he could have
(02:54):
pulled out his knife and like slashed at metcalps mid
section or something, you know, maybe cut him by the way.
That also would be criminal and should go to prison.
But obviously else the metcalf would be recovered and at
home of the span, you know there to to gen
your knife into someone's heart, to go for a fatal
a fatal stab under that situe, Under those situations, it
(03:16):
was just it was vicious, it was demonic. There's you know,
you know what you're doing when you do that, and
it's it's actually not that easy to kill somebody with
one with really, you know, one movement of an edged weapon,
unless you know what you're doing. There are only a
(03:37):
few places where you'd be able to go, and and
that was one of them. So he went for a
killing strike right off the bat. And it's just so
just horrific, and so it's important that this was severely punished.
I know there are people who are saying this should
be a death penalty case for uh, for Anthony. You know,
(03:59):
there are pretty clear in the statutes this would this
would really not qualify. I think that's why they didn't
charge it as such. But it was charged as murder
and he got a considerable sentence. So from a judicial perspective,
I think this was all handled properly. Then there's this
stuff around this issue. Okay. Then there's the people who
(04:22):
are raising money for Carmelo Anthony who are claiming that
this was a case of self defense, that this was
somehow indicative of like white racism or something like this.
And on the one hand, you know, you could just
try to wave your hand at this and say, well,
there's very stupid people of all you know, of all
(04:45):
types and colors and persuasions. They're dumb people of all
kinds out there, and maybe we just have a collection
of particularly stupid people outside of the Carmalo Anthony courthouse.
But some of the narratives that are being shared outside
that courthouse you'll also see in social from media. You
also see reflected from major news outlets and from left
wing commentators, and that I think is particularly troubling about
(05:11):
all this. I want to give you a just so
you can hear this. Some of the things that people
were saying outside this courthouse, and I then want to
unpack how could it. These things are so crazy that
you have to wonder, how could anyone think this? But
then you stop and you realize it's more. It's a
lot more widespread these sentiments, which are quite honestly just
(05:35):
at their core, at their baseline anti white. There are
in fact people of all races. And I know this
a bit form my time where I was kind of
traveling the world a bit and working for the government
and dealing with racial animus. People who hate other people
based upon their race, their skin color, exists all over
(05:55):
the world, all over the world. In fact, America is
a particularly non racist country today today. I'm not saying
one hundred and one hundred and fifty years ago, but
today it is a country that far exceeds others and
certainly any other of its size when you talk about
(06:16):
racism and racial tolerance. And in this country, we've gotten
so used to hearing a narrative of like a hierarchical
racism that we have been told by the academy, by
the media, academy, you know, universities, by the media, even
by the government in different ways that black animist or
(06:38):
hatred toward white people is not even is not possible.
It's not something you're allowed to talk about. The problem
with that is that's a lie. It's real. There are
the same way they'll say, do you not believe in racism?
In America? Today? A white person will be asses, do
you saying there is no racism? It's a little bit
like people saying, well, are you saying there is no climate?
Of course there's racism? And by the way, of course
(07:00):
the climate is changing. But everything that you think that
follows from that does not follow from that basic affirmative
statement necessarily right. So you also have to start with
are there black people who have because of narratives of
victimization and systemic racism and all these you know, the
(07:21):
BLM movement and these different things, Are there some black
people in this country who have an irrational animis a
racism if you will, toward white people? The answer is
undoubtedly yes. Of course. By the way, there are Asian
people who are racist about black people. There are Latino
(07:43):
people who are racist about it, and vice versa. You
see where I'm going. I mean, this exists, of course
in all different forms, creeds, colors, and everything else. But
we have to start from that baseline understanding to understand
how it is that a woman this is let's go
to cut four. Cut four. Here, a woman outside of
(08:04):
the Carmelo Anthony trial was saying this play cut four.
What do you want us to do? What do you
want us to do?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
At this point?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
What I'm lost for? I don't know what to do.
I got five boys, I don't know why. I ain't
got none to tell him? No more. You can't walk
away no more, y p streyvon Morton. What do I
tell my five boys? Don't stab someone in the heart
for no reason? There we go. Not actually a hard
question to answer. What do I tell my five boys
(08:36):
don't do something heinous and monstrous and kill someone? The
most basic and straightforward thing in any society, the most
most obvious moral position is don't murder people. Don't murder
your fellow human beings. That's what happened here. So what
is the part of this that is surprising? Here's another protester,
(08:59):
this is five. Listen to this play it What was
it like? What was it like? Read?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I feel like it was design to protect white people
the system, and it.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Was not designed to protect black people.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
It's self defense.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
No, it's quite obviously not self defense. If that is
self defense, self defense has no meaning. If what cardinlo'
anthony did is self defense, anyone in America at any
time who feels like someone accidentally or not bump them
in the shoulder walking past them in the grocery store
al could just pull out a pistol and shoot them
there self defense. He assaulted me bump my shoulder. I
(09:38):
thought my life was in jeopardy. If you are unreasonable
in your use of force, there must be consequences or else.
The use of force then becomes completely open ended to
people who want to prey upon their fellow human beings.
And by the way, this just goes on and on.
I mean play cut three. This is protesters outside, so
(10:22):
you have mobs of Again, I did not see any
non black people in the footage. I wasn't at the trial.
I think we may have someone joining us who was
actually covering the trial the whole time soon, But I
wasn't the trial. So I'm just telling you what I've seen.
Again the specificity here so that no one can claim
(10:43):
that I'm playing loose with the facts. You have mobs
of black protesters outside of this trial who clearly wanted
the justice system to say that a black young man,
you know, he's a teenager, now he's nineteen, a black
young man should be able to kill a white young
(11:03):
man because there's a lot of resentment from some quarters
of the black community against white people and the history
of racism in this country. That's what they wanted to
come out of this Trump. There's some echoes of the
OJ situation here, not in the result, but in the
desire for like payback or something. And that is really
(11:27):
distressing because for us to live in a country where
some of and I you know, we have we have wonderful,
many wonderful black listeners to this show every day. I
know because they call in there, write in everything else,
and they're calling this out too. So this is why,
again I try to speak with that specificity of from
(11:48):
some corners pockets of the black community, these narratives have
been very much adopted wholesale, These narratives of a victimization
that justifies anything in response at any time, a total
rejection of accountability for the individual if the individual is black.
(12:13):
There are some you know, I can't give you a number,
but I can give you footage of mobs of people
outside the courthouse saying this, and we should be in
the same position as we would with any other issue
where a fellow Americans I think these are all Americans,
are outside the courthouse, where fellow Americans are advocating an
(12:33):
explicitly immoral and I would say evil outcome narrative. We
have to be able to call it out and say, know,
they are wrong, what they are doing, what they are
what they are pushing for, is evil and quite honestly,
they should be ashamed of what they say about this. Again,
(12:55):
lawful legal for them to say it. I'm not saying
they're you know, I'm a First Amendment of course, but
that goes both ways. And we can't do this thing
of oh well, we have to we have to act
with this sensitivity where we don't want other people to
misconstrue what we are saying. You know, this is why
I always say, do I sound sometimes maybe a little
(13:17):
hardline on criminal justice matters when it comes to the
one percent of the black community in a place like
New York where I grew up, or any number of
other cities that commits a vast majority of all violent crime, Well, no,
I think actually I'm the advocate for the ninety nine
(13:37):
percent of the Black community that just wants to live
like everybody else in peace and freedom and security with
rule of law. So I know I am their advocate,
and to be their advocate means being honest about where
the problem is, which is in a Trump even spoke
about it today, said about two percent and that's of
(13:59):
the overall population, by the way, not the black population,
but about two percent of the overall population in any
city is basically committing all this area's violent crime. I
don't care what color they are, white, Black, Asian, Hispanic.
If you are the problem of violent crime in your community,
you must be dealt with and dealt with severely, because
the rest of us, including the vast majority of black, Hispanic,
(14:22):
you know, everybody Asian. What I want to keep saying
of everybody else, has a right to not be victimized.
We have a right to live in peace and security.
We have a right to not be stabbed in the
heart at a track meet because somebody didn't have good
enough parenting to explain to him, you don't stab someone
in the heart because they tell you to go back
to your school's tent. We should not have to live
(14:47):
like that. And we should all be able to speak
about it in that way. So, by the way, there's
more on. There's more rather in this criminal justice conversation
that I want to have with you. It has to
do with this what happened in New York. And this
one hits home for me because you know, I am
that guy who will often speak up and say something
(15:07):
when someone is being disrespectful to people around them and
being rude. I do it in an applied fashion, but man,
people say stuff to me sometimes that I'm like, I
guess it's a good thing. I'm a public figure. I
don't want to get into a scrap here. But you'd
be surprised how aggressive and vicious people can be when
they're clearly in the wrong. They can be sitting under
(15:28):
a sign that says don't do the thing you're doing,
and they're on private property, and you can have the
manager come over and say to them, hey, can you
not do that, and they'll get mad at you for telling,
you know, for asking the manager to enforce the stated
rules of the house. Someone got shot over this in
New York. We'll talk about it in just a moment.
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(17:02):
How I'm also, of course seeing some very clear headed,
insightful and highly ethical takes from members of the black
community in this country, and a lot of them are
on the right, people that agree with me politically, but
some are just black people that see this for what
it is. Jason Whitlock over at The Blaze wrote, so
(17:24):
called this is a quote so called black culture teaches
black people to aggressively troll white people in hopes of
triggering disrespect. That justifies a violent physical conflict. That black
culture always seeks escalation of conflict, never peaceful resolution. That's
from Jason Whitlock. Is that true? Are there people in
(17:45):
the black community who are of the left who want
to debate that issue or willing to discuss it, or
are they're just going to shout that Jason and everyone
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insurance agency. So we were talking about the Carmelo Anthony
conviction and we're getting some talkbacks and calls back in
on this one. Here is this is an important point
(19:15):
from the trial. J from Sacramento who listens on KFBK,
this is what he had to say. Hit see guys, Hey,
I just.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Want to clear up. Did Austin Metcalf actually put his
hands on Carmelo. There's lots of people online to say
that he was beating him people outside the courthouse.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
It's a very good question. There were multiple and I
went through the transcript of the testimony here. There were
multiple eyewitnesses. Remember this was done in full view of
lots of people. This wasn't like behind the bleachers with
no one watching. There are multiple eyewitnesses who all basically
said that Metcalf put a hand on Anthony's shoulder to
(19:58):
start to move him out of the tent. Anthony was
asked fifteen times by individuals in the tent to leave.
He was not welcome there. He was not supposed to
be there based on these high school event rules. You know,
it would be like if somebody from the opposing team
came and sat on your bench, like, you know, you're
(20:18):
not supposed to be there. Rules that everybody else was
fine obeying and respecting. And there is dispute among the witnesses.
I should say discrepancy, not really dispute discrepancy among the
witnesses as to whether it was more of a hand
on the shoulder to guide him out or something of
a shove right like, shoved his shoulder. He did not
(20:39):
strike him, he was not beating him. He did not
have his hands around his throat or anything like that
a shove on the shoulder. Another important part of this
is Anthony kept saying, touch me and see what happens.
Touch me and see what happens, knowing that he had
a knife ready to go at this high school event. Now,
(20:59):
some people do not understand how self defense law works,
as somebody who does conceal carry here both sometimes a
knife and or a pistol. In Florida, I have to
be very well acquainted with this, and I know it's
a different state to state to be clear, but there's
some basic principles that are pretty pretty common across all
(21:22):
states on this one, and one of them is just
it has to be proportionate. You know, you have to
be incredible fear. And this is what I meant by
If somebody is walking past me on the street and
I'm looking at my phone and we bomb shoulders and
I say oh, I'm sorry. If they pull out a
gun and shoot me at point blank range because they
(21:43):
say that they were scared and they felt like they
were under assault, they're going to go to prison. Okay,
you have to have more than just like somebody came
into physical touch with me. You know, if somebody tapped
me on the shoulder and it's an old friend, I
could theoretically turn around and stab them because as I said,
oh my god, I was assaulted on the street, they
made physical contact with me. A jury is going to say, no,
(22:07):
you killed someone. That's murder. You had no justification to
do it. It has to be a reasonable level of
force for a reasonable perception of threat. Okay, so that
just because everyone goes, oh, but he made physical contact.
These are high school kids. Do you think think about
what that rule would then mean. I mean, I you
know people I got into a couple of scraps when
(22:29):
I was in high school with people. They're nothing serious.
I wasn't some tough guy any think, but you know,
grabbing and shoving and stuff, and you know, this kind
of stuff happened. Imagine if you could just carry a
knife around that if anyone touches you just stab him
in the face. Touch me first, stab him in the face.
You're high school students. Go to the dean, right, I mean,
you know, go to a teacher and be like, you know,
expel this kid. You stab him. So all these people
(22:53):
that are trying to now say, oh, but he made
physical contacts, so that no, they're wrong. They don't understand
the law and they don't understand ethics, and what they're
saying is stupid. So here we go. We have unidentified
listener from San Antonio listens on w o A. I
this is d Let's hear what this gentleman has to say. Man,
(23:16):
will you stick?
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Oh white Jude and black boy talking to a white woman.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Why they didn't get debt empty because he's a black
boy talking to white woman. I mean, that's just unfortunately
ignorant and wrong on every level. Wrong as a matter
of law, wrong on on on the facts. But just
to give you a sense, and we have people even
who are listening to the show who are going to
(23:43):
disagree with me on this, and they're free to disagree,
they're free to be wrong. This was the this was
the right outcome in this case. And and the whole
thing is very sad and just a it's just all lost,
it's all bad, this whole situation. But I want to
also just move to because I mentioned this thing of
(24:05):
Carmelo Anthony. What really instigated the whole thing is he
didn't think the rules applied to him too. He didn't
want to. And you can say, oh, it's not a law, yeah,
but it's an understood, civilized way to interact with your
high school peers that yet do you have your tent,
they have their at ten. It's a competitive event. You know,
you're not supposed to be everybody else was fine with
(24:26):
the rules. He thought the rules didn't apply to him,
and then he instead of saying, oh my gosh, you
guys are right, I'm sorry, I'll head over to you know,
the other tent or something, he wanted to. He knew
he had a knife and he wanted to. He wanted
to throw down. And now he's going to spend at
least fifteen years in prison for it, maybe longer. There
was an incident in New York City that just happened,
(24:48):
and this is something that I think really does hit
home for a lot of us. This is it was
on Monday, a bus passenger named Jonathan Pettigrew, forty one
years old, asked quote team to lower his phone phone
volume on a public bus. And this is the WABC
report from New York on this play eleven.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
It started with an argument about someone yelling to loudly
on his phone, and it ended in gunfire and a
forty one year old man dead. And it happened on
an MTA bus. Surveillance video shows passengers running off that
bus moments after gunshots rang out, including at least one
rider with a baby stroller. According to police, the victim
told the suspect to keep it down, An argument ensued,
(25:32):
and then the gunman shot the victim in his abdomen
on a b X thirty six bus. It happened yesterday
around two point thirty in the afternoon at White Planes Road.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
And East Treamount Avenue.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
The suspect then fled on foot southbounds on white Planes Road.
He's described as a young man, possibly a teenager, wearing
a white shirt at the time. The victim, identified by
police as Jonathan Pettigrew, was rushed to Kobe Hospital, where
he later died.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
If they're missing a data point there from the description
of the suspect, a teenager wearing a white T shirt. Hmm.
Did anyone notice if the teenager had hair? Did anyone
notice if the teenager was of a certain skin color?
(26:21):
Intro This is Remember, this is somebody who has fled
at large, just murdered somebody, and this is a news report.
This is about public safety now, right. We got to
get the word out. Okay, I'm glad that they got
the word out about a teenager wearing a T shirt.
That's gonna help. That's really narrowing it down, isn't it.
But you see, we all see there are these invisible
(26:47):
but omnipresent rules about criminal justice and about these issues
that were about racial issues. We're all supposed to what
how about your fairness, sanity and equality? How about the truth?
We just always say the truth. That would be a
good place to start, wouldn't it, on all of this?
But I would just note that I see this. It's
(27:11):
very common down here in Miami, and it is not
members of the black community that I generally have had
interactions with on this. It is a different community who
like to play incredibly loud music in public places that
are enclosed. For example, they will just play their music
(27:33):
on their phone when they're sitting in like a restaurant,
or they will get on. This is true. I was
in a restaurant, a you know, a like a sit down,
nice restaurant last night, and someone at the table next
to us was just having a full blown FaceTime conversation
that the whole restaurant could hear FaceTime on speaker shouting
(27:54):
to the person, you know, holding up their thing. You know,
I'm talking to my buddy and FaceTime. It's not a
loud restaurant, by the so we all get to hear
this guy's conversation. It's incredibly rude. It's incredibly rude. And manners,
by the way, are actually an important ingredient in civilization,
in our ability to socially interact with each other and
with other people. And this, I know happens on the
(28:16):
subway all the time, producer allies doing. It happens in
the subway all the time. Well in this case, it
happened on a bus. And so it's a hey, can
you keep it down. The guy clearly got super aggressive
and murdered. He murdered somebody because he didn't want to
hear the guy's speakerphone conversation. Now there are different ways
to analyze why people do this. Raphael Manguel, who is
(28:41):
a friend of mine at the Manhattan Institute, is one
of the I think top criminal justice analysts and commentators
on the scene today. We've had him on the show before,
and I want you to hear what he says, specifically
about this incident. Obviously, Raphael is he's a Latin American
background himself, and here's what he is saying about this quote.
(29:04):
I've lost count of how many times I've made this point,
but please take this as a warning and not merely
an observation antisocial behavior behavior. Think about the guy blasting
music from a speaker, talking loudly on speakerphone, smoking inside
the subway car in a public space is often doing
so because they are engaged in it as a dare.
(29:28):
The whole point is to provoke anger and annoyance in
those around him, which serves two purposes depending on the
response he's hoping for. Number One, if everyone bites their tongues,
the anti social jerk gets to tell himself that he's
such a badass, no one would ever dare speak up.
(29:50):
Or two, if someone confronts him, he finds his excuse
to scratch a violent isch. Understand that saying something to
these people will also come often come with a risk
of violent confrontation. End quote. It's absolutely true people do
things like this. It reminds me also of the like
the dirt bike takeovers on the streets of New York City.
(30:13):
They're daring anyone to say anything. They're daring the cops
to even try to stop them. It's meant to show
a power dynamic at play. We the people doing the
anti social thing, do what we want. And if you
try to enforce social norms, if you try to enforce
respect for fellow human beings, will punch you, will stab you,
(30:38):
maybe we'll shoot you. That is a common enough thing
now that people need to be warned about it. And
I think about this sometimes too, you know, I will
have you know, everyone has these kinds of incidents, you know,
I'm amazed at Also, unfortunately, it seems like the bad guys,
(31:01):
the people that like to do this stuff, they get
the more they get away with it, the more that happens.
It's a bit like graffiti in a city. The more
you see graffiti, the more graffiti happens, and the more
people think. You know, but just to be clear, there
are rules in the subway. This isn't like the sum Oh,
but I'm getting the manager. You're not allowed to have
like a boombox blasting me. You're not allowed to do
(31:22):
these things. You're not allowed to You're not supposed. I'm
I'm on an airplane these days, so I fly commercial
like everybody else. I'm on an airplane, and there's about
a seventy percent chance that some jerk, by the way,
could be could be you know, anybody. Actually this is
a this is one where you get everybody's kind of
(31:43):
an equal meaning different profiles. Male, female, you know, white, black.
I've actually never I've actually never seen an Asian do it,
to be fair, but white, black, Hispanic, you know. I
see a lot of people do they do the I'm
going to have like my iPad with no head phones,
and they're told at the beginning of the flight, please
(32:03):
you must use headphones. Use headphones very annoying and distracting
to everyone else who's probably trying to read or watch
their own thing or maybe sleep that you're just blasting.
People just don't care, and they get indignant about it. Now,
a lot of this I think also comes from just
the lack of like male role models and also father
figures in society these days. There's a deeper conversation here,
(32:24):
but uh we for the I know it sounds grandiose,
but for the purposes of maintaining civilization, we actually need
to be able to socially enforce norms, and we need
to call out this kind of antisocial behavior, and anybody
who gets violent in response to it needs to be
severely punished, because that's the way that you can actually
stop it. That's the message that needs to be sent.
(32:48):
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(33:09):
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flag pin. When you go online to FLAGPINIFCJ dot org.
That's FLAGPINIFCJ dot org. We have here, we go. We
have some talkbacks different callers. Let's do talkback first up
(33:53):
here from Gus from Minnesota. This is talkback B. He's
upset with us. Karen's are heroes. You guys are zeros.
See yuh switching you off? Well, cause I will miss you.
First of all, it's just me. Don't blame Clay, and
we will miss you. So I just said. In some contexts,
(34:15):
my friend, there are times when someone actually does need
to ask for the manager. There are times when someone
does need to step up and say turn off the
and often if it is a woman who does it violence.
If the offender is male, this kind of the peace
and quiet offender, if you will, is less likely, whereas
if it's a man, often things can escalate very quickly
(34:36):
to a although sometimes they'll get volnd with a woman too,
So it's in that context that I'm saying that's good.
You can disagree with that, but then you just wouldn't
be particularly wise. And let's see who else we got here.
We got Sean from Queen's what's going on? Sean? Is
(34:57):
he still with us?
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Helene?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yes, sir, you're on the air. Go ahead, it's a buck.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
What really bothered me the most about our side regarding
Carmelo Anthony was the preconceived notion of guilt because we
didn't do that, or we didn't even allow that to happen.
With Daniel Tenney, who I agreed with self defense, but
he killed an unarmed black man because of words. But
(35:25):
we said it with self defense and we praised him
and called him a hero. In the Carmelo Anthony situation,
we went to this preconceived notion of guilt without knowing
anything other than one side. I'm a young I was
a young black man growing up in South Jamaica. Queen's Buck.
I carried a pocket knife at the tender age of
(35:45):
fifteen because things happened. I don't know why Carmelo had
a knife. I don't know why he stabbed Austin. Maybe
he couldn't scrap. Maybe he was a punk, I don't know,
but we went to this.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Preconceived notion of Okay, Sean, I appreciate, thank you for
calling in appreciate perspective. I just want to address it
before we get to the break. Here a few things
the Sean Penny situation. There was video, so when you
see video of an incident happen, you tend to have
a better sense of what happened than in this case.
We obviously had to rely on eyewitness testimony. There was
a lot of eyewitness testimony, though in terms of a
(36:20):
preconceived notion, Sean, I agree that somebody should be presumed
innocent until proven guilty. I didn't think that this was
a particularly difficult case because of what happened, Because of
the initial eyewitness testimony was all consistent, black, white, everybody
who saw this. It was consistent throughout. And look, this
(36:41):
is where self defense laws very a bedrock issue of
self defense laws. Were you really under threat when you
did this? Would a normal reasonal person think so? Carmelo
Anthony did not cross that threshold at all. FO
Second hour of play and Buck kicks off right now.
Thank you so much for being here with us. And
the Carmelo Anthony verdict came down right after we finished
this program yesterday, so we had not a chance to
talk to you about the result. It was looking like
a conviction was like was likely right as we were
(00:23):
finishing up yesterday. Because usually when a jury in a
case like this comes back quickly, I think it's bad
for the defense, right, That's that's the generule of thumb.
Obviously not not ironclad, but that usually is the way
that it goes. And this whole thing is a tragedy.
(00:44):
It's heartbreaking for the metcalf family. Also, you know this,
this Carmelo Anthony fellow as a young man who's also
basically thrown his life away. He will now he will
be able to have a relationship with God from prison
(01:04):
hopefully and can repent. And you know this is where
this is heading, my friends, because he got thirty five years,
he got a hefty sentence. He will be eligible for
parole I think after fifteen years, so if he is
now nineteen, he will be what thirty Oh gosh, I
(01:24):
never should try to do math on the fly. On
the show, but thirty four years old when he gets
out for parole, and that's if the parole board said
maybe they will not let him out. That's obviously also
subject to the determination of those individuals in the future.
But here's here's the long and the short of it.
(01:46):
He was somewhere at a high school track meet that
he wasn't supposed to be. High school kids sometimes will
you know, say things to each other, whether especially in
a sports environment, that can be a little bit abrasive
or maybe even aggressive. But you're in high school, there
are people around you, there are adults that are folks present.
(02:10):
You shouldn't pull out a knife and stab somebody the
heart and kill them for no good reason whatsoever. This
is a very straightforward This is a choice. This is
a choice between civilization and barbarism. That's it. Is it wrong?
Can we as a society clearly say it is wrong
to take out a night I mean, also, I just
(02:31):
just to note this a long time ago, I actually
had and I'm by no means an expert, but I
had some basic edged weapons training when I was in
the agency, and a part of that was our big
part of it's actually in the early days anatomy and
understanding bleeds. To pull out a knife and to stab
someone right in the heart. You know, he could have
(02:54):
pulled out his knife and like slashed at metcalps mid
section or something, you know, maybe cut him by the way.
That also would be criminal and should go to prison.
But obviously else the metcalf would be recovered and at
home of the span, you know there to to gen
your knife into someone's heart, to go for a fatal
a fatal stab under that situe, Under those situations, it
(03:16):
was just it was vicious, it was demonic. There's you know,
you know what you're doing when you do that, and
it's it's actually not that easy to kill somebody with
one with really, you know, one movement of an edged weapon,
unless you know what you're doing. There are only a
(03:37):
few places where you'd be able to go, and and
that was one of them. So he went for a
killing strike right off the bat. And it's just so
just horrific, and so it's important that this was severely punished.
I know there are people who are saying this should
be a death penalty case for uh, for Anthony. You know,
(03:59):
there are pretty clear in the statutes this would this
would really not qualify. I think that's why they didn't
charge it as such. But it was charged as murder
and he got a considerable sentence. So from a judicial perspective,
I think this was all handled properly. Then there's this
stuff around this issue. Okay. Then there's the people who
(04:22):
are raising money for Carmelo Anthony who are claiming that
this was a case of self defense, that this was
somehow indicative of like white racism or something like this.
And on the one hand, you know, you could just
try to wave your hand at this and say, well,
there's very stupid people of all you know, of all
(04:45):
types and colors and persuasions. They're dumb people of all
kinds out there, and maybe we just have a collection
of particularly stupid people outside of the Carmalo Anthony courthouse.
But some of the narratives that are being shared outside
that courthouse you'll also see in social from media. You
also see reflected from major news outlets and from left
wing commentators, and that I think is particularly troubling about
(05:11):
all this. I want to give you a just so
you can hear this. Some of the things that people
were saying outside this courthouse, and I then want to
unpack how could it. These things are so crazy that
you have to wonder, how could anyone think this? But
then you stop and you realize it's more. It's a
lot more widespread these sentiments, which are quite honestly just
(05:35):
at their core, at their baseline anti white. There are
in fact people of all races. And I know this
a bit form my time where I was kind of
traveling the world a bit and working for the government
and dealing with racial animus. People who hate other people
based upon their race, their skin color, exists all over
(05:55):
the world, all over the world. In fact, America is
a particularly non racist country today today. I'm not saying
one hundred and one hundred and fifty years ago, but
today it is a country that far exceeds others and
certainly any other of its size when you talk about
(06:16):
racism and racial tolerance. And in this country, we've gotten
so used to hearing a narrative of like a hierarchical
racism that we have been told by the academy, by
the media, academy, you know, universities, by the media, even
by the government in different ways that black animist or
(06:38):
hatred toward white people is not even is not possible.
It's not something you're allowed to talk about. The problem
with that is that's a lie. It's real. There are
the same way they'll say, do you not believe in racism?
In America? Today? A white person will be asses, do
you saying there is no racism? It's a little bit
like people saying, well, are you saying there is no climate?
Of course there's racism? And by the way, of course
(07:00):
the climate is changing. But everything that you think that
follows from that does not follow from that basic affirmative
statement necessarily right. So you also have to start with
are there black people who have because of narratives of
victimization and systemic racism and all these you know, the
(07:21):
BLM movement and these different things, Are there some black
people in this country who have an irrational animis a
racism if you will, toward white people? The answer is
undoubtedly yes. Of course. By the way, there are Asian
people who are racist about black people. There are Latino
(07:43):
people who are racist about it, and vice versa. You
see where I'm going. I mean, this exists, of course
in all different forms, creeds, colors, and everything else. But
we have to start from that baseline understanding to understand
how it is that a woman this is let's go
to cut four. Cut four. Here, a woman outside of
(08:04):
the Carmelo Anthony trial was saying this play cut four.
What do you want us to do? What do you
want us to do?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
At this point?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
What I'm lost for? I don't know what to do.
I got five boys, I don't know why. I ain't
got none to tell him? No more. You can't walk
away no more, y p streyvon Morton. What do I
tell my five boys? Don't stab someone in the heart
for no reason? There we go. Not actually a hard
question to answer. What do I tell my five boys
(08:36):
don't do something heinous and monstrous and kill someone? The
most basic and straightforward thing in any society, the most
most obvious moral position is don't murder people. Don't murder
your fellow human beings. That's what happened here. So what
is the part of this that is surprising? Here's another protester,
(08:59):
this is five. Listen to this play it What was
it like? What was it like? Read?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I feel like it was design to protect white people
the system, and it.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Was not designed to protect black people.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
It's self defense.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
No, it's quite obviously not self defense. If that is
self defense, self defense has no meaning. If what cardinlo'
anthony did is self defense, anyone in America at any
time who feels like someone accidentally or not bump them
in the shoulder walking past them in the grocery store
al could just pull out a pistol and shoot them
there self defense. He assaulted me bump my shoulder. I
(09:38):
thought my life was in jeopardy. If you are unreasonable
in your use of force, there must be consequences or else.
The use of force then becomes completely open ended to
people who want to prey upon their fellow human beings.
And by the way, this just goes on and on.
I mean play cut three. This is protesters outside, so
(10:22):
you have mobs of Again, I did not see any
non black people in the footage. I wasn't at the trial.
I think we may have someone joining us who was
actually covering the trial the whole time soon, But I
wasn't the trial. So I'm just telling you what I've seen.
Again the specificity here so that no one can claim
(10:43):
that I'm playing loose with the facts. You have mobs
of black protesters outside of this trial who clearly wanted
the justice system to say that a black young man,
you know, he's a teenager, now he's nineteen, a black
young man should be able to kill a white young
(11:03):
man because there's a lot of resentment from some quarters
of the black community against white people and the history
of racism in this country. That's what they wanted to
come out of this Trump. There's some echoes of the
OJ situation here, not in the result, but in the
desire for like payback or something. And that is really
(11:27):
distressing because for us to live in a country where
some of and I you know, we have we have wonderful,
many wonderful black listeners to this show every day. I
know because they call in there, write in everything else,
and they're calling this out too. So this is why,
again I try to speak with that specificity of from
(11:48):
some corners pockets of the black community, these narratives have
been very much adopted wholesale, These narratives of a victimization
that justifies anything in response at any time, a total
rejection of accountability for the individual if the individual is black.
(12:13):
There are some you know, I can't give you a number,
but I can give you footage of mobs of people
outside the courthouse saying this, and we should be in
the same position as we would with any other issue
where a fellow Americans I think these are all Americans,
are outside the courthouse, where fellow Americans are advocating an
(12:33):
explicitly immoral and I would say evil outcome narrative. We
have to be able to call it out and say, know,
they are wrong, what they are doing, what they are
what they are pushing for, is evil and quite honestly,
they should be ashamed of what they say about this. Again,
(12:55):
lawful legal for them to say it. I'm not saying
they're you know, I'm a First Amendment of course, but
that goes both ways. And we can't do this thing
of oh well, we have to we have to act
with this sensitivity where we don't want other people to
misconstrue what we are saying. You know, this is why
I always say, do I sound sometimes maybe a little
(13:17):
hardline on criminal justice matters when it comes to the
one percent of the black community in a place like
New York where I grew up, or any number of
other cities that commits a vast majority of all violent crime, Well, no,
I think actually I'm the advocate for the ninety nine
(13:37):
percent of the Black community that just wants to live
like everybody else in peace and freedom and security with
rule of law. So I know I am their advocate,
and to be their advocate means being honest about where
the problem is, which is in a Trump even spoke
about it today, said about two percent and that's of
(13:59):
the overall population, by the way, not the black population,
but about two percent of the overall population in any
city is basically committing all this area's violent crime. I
don't care what color they are, white, Black, Asian, Hispanic.
If you are the problem of violent crime in your community,
you must be dealt with and dealt with severely, because
the rest of us, including the vast majority of black, Hispanic,
(14:22):
you know, everybody Asian. What I want to keep saying
of everybody else, has a right to not be victimized.
We have a right to live in peace and security.
We have a right to not be stabbed in the
heart at a track meet because somebody didn't have good
enough parenting to explain to him, you don't stab someone
in the heart because they tell you to go back
to your school's tent. We should not have to live
(14:47):
like that. And we should all be able to speak
about it in that way. So, by the way, there's
more on. There's more rather in this criminal justice conversation
that I want to have with you. It has to
do with this what happened in New York. And this
one hits home for me because you know, I am
that guy who will often speak up and say something
(15:07):
when someone is being disrespectful to people around them and
being rude. I do it in an applied fashion, but man,
people say stuff to me sometimes that I'm like, I
guess it's a good thing. I'm a public figure. I
don't want to get into a scrap here. But you'd
be surprised how aggressive and vicious people can be when
they're clearly in the wrong. They can be sitting under
(15:28):
a sign that says don't do the thing you're doing,
and they're on private property, and you can have the
manager come over and say to them, hey, can you
not do that, and they'll get mad at you for telling,
you know, for asking the manager to enforce the stated
rules of the house. Someone got shot over this in
New York. We'll talk about it in just a moment.
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(17:02):
How I'm also, of course seeing some very clear headed,
insightful and highly ethical takes from members of the black
community in this country, and a lot of them are
on the right, people that agree with me politically, but
some are just black people that see this for what
it is. Jason Whitlock over at The Blaze wrote, so
(17:24):
called this is a quote so called black culture teaches
black people to aggressively troll white people in hopes of
triggering disrespect. That justifies a violent physical conflict. That black
culture always seeks escalation of conflict, never peaceful resolution. That's
from Jason Whitlock. Is that true? Are there people in
(17:45):
the black community who are of the left who want
to debate that issue or willing to discuss it, or
are they're just going to shout that Jason and everyone
else Jason's black, of course, are racist. Is that the
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insurance agency. So we were talking about the Carmelo Anthony
conviction and we're getting some talkbacks and calls back in
on this one. Here is this is an important point
(19:15):
from the trial. J from Sacramento who listens on KFBK,
this is what he had to say. Hit see guys, Hey,
I just.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Want to clear up. Did Austin Metcalf actually put his
hands on Carmelo. There's lots of people online to say
that he was beating him people outside the courthouse.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
It's a very good question. There were multiple and I
went through the transcript of the testimony here. There were
multiple eyewitnesses. Remember this was done in full view of
lots of people. This wasn't like behind the bleachers with
no one watching. There are multiple eyewitnesses who all basically
said that Metcalf put a hand on Anthony's shoulder to
(19:58):
start to move him out of the tent. Anthony was
asked fifteen times by individuals in the tent to leave.
He was not welcome there. He was not supposed to
be there based on these high school event rules. You know,
it would be like if somebody from the opposing team
came and sat on your bench, like, you know, you're
(20:18):
not supposed to be there. Rules that everybody else was
fine obeying and respecting. And there is dispute among the witnesses.
I should say discrepancy, not really dispute discrepancy among the
witnesses as to whether it was more of a hand
on the shoulder to guide him out or something of
a shove right like, shoved his shoulder. He did not
(20:39):
strike him, he was not beating him. He did not
have his hands around his throat or anything like that
a shove on the shoulder. Another important part of this
is Anthony kept saying, touch me and see what happens.
Touch me and see what happens, knowing that he had
a knife ready to go at this high school event. Now,
(20:59):
some people do not understand how self defense law works,
as somebody who does conceal carry here both sometimes a
knife and or a pistol. In Florida, I have to
be very well acquainted with this, and I know it's
a different state to state to be clear, but there's
some basic principles that are pretty pretty common across all
(21:22):
states on this one, and one of them is just
it has to be proportionate. You know, you have to
be incredible fear. And this is what I meant by
If somebody is walking past me on the street and
I'm looking at my phone and we bomb shoulders and
I say oh, I'm sorry. If they pull out a
gun and shoot me at point blank range because they
(21:43):
say that they were scared and they felt like they
were under assault, they're going to go to prison. Okay,
you have to have more than just like somebody came
into physical touch with me. You know, if somebody tapped
me on the shoulder and it's an old friend, I
could theoretically turn around and stab them because as I said,
oh my god, I was assaulted on the street, they
made physical contact with me. A jury is going to say, no,
(22:07):
you killed someone. That's murder. You had no justification to
do it. It has to be a reasonable level of
force for a reasonable perception of threat. Okay, so that
just because everyone goes, oh, but he made physical contact.
These are high school kids. Do you think think about
what that rule would then mean. I mean, I you
know people I got into a couple of scraps when
(22:29):
I was in high school with people. They're nothing serious.
I wasn't some tough guy any think, but you know,
grabbing and shoving and stuff, and you know, this kind
of stuff happened. Imagine if you could just carry a
knife around that if anyone touches you just stab him
in the face. Touch me first, stab him in the face.
You're high school students. Go to the dean, right, I mean,
you know, go to a teacher and be like, you know,
expel this kid. You stab him. So all these people
(22:53):
that are trying to now say, oh, but he made
physical contacts, so that no, they're wrong. They don't understand
the law and they don't understand ethics, and what they're
saying is stupid. So here we go. We have unidentified
listener from San Antonio listens on w o A. I
this is d Let's hear what this gentleman has to say. Man,
(23:16):
will you stick?
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Oh white Jude and black boy talking to a white woman.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Why they didn't get debt empty because he's a black
boy talking to white woman. I mean, that's just unfortunately
ignorant and wrong on every level. Wrong as a matter
of law, wrong on on on the facts. But just
to give you a sense, and we have people even
who are listening to the show who are going to
(23:43):
disagree with me on this, and they're free to disagree,
they're free to be wrong. This was the this was
the right outcome in this case. And and the whole
thing is very sad and just a it's just all lost,
it's all bad, this whole situation. But I want to
also just move to because I mentioned this thing of
(24:05):
Carmelo Anthony. What really instigated the whole thing is he
didn't think the rules applied to him too. He didn't
want to. And you can say, oh, it's not a law, yeah,
but it's an understood, civilized way to interact with your
high school peers that yet do you have your tent,
they have their at ten. It's a competitive event. You know,
you're not supposed to be everybody else was fine with
(24:26):
the rules. He thought the rules didn't apply to him,
and then he instead of saying, oh my gosh, you
guys are right, I'm sorry, I'll head over to you know,
the other tent or something, he wanted to. He knew
he had a knife and he wanted to. He wanted
to throw down. And now he's going to spend at
least fifteen years in prison for it, maybe longer. There
was an incident in New York City that just happened,
(24:48):
and this is something that I think really does hit
home for a lot of us. This is it was
on Monday, a bus passenger named Jonathan Pettigrew, forty one
years old, asked quote team to lower his phone phone
volume on a public bus. And this is the WABC
report from New York on this play eleven.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
It started with an argument about someone yelling to loudly
on his phone, and it ended in gunfire and a
forty one year old man dead. And it happened on
an MTA bus. Surveillance video shows passengers running off that
bus moments after gunshots rang out, including at least one
rider with a baby stroller. According to police, the victim
told the suspect to keep it down, An argument ensued,
(25:32):
and then the gunman shot the victim in his abdomen
on a b X thirty six bus. It happened yesterday
around two point thirty in the afternoon at White Planes Road.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
And East Treamount Avenue.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
The suspect then fled on foot southbounds on white Planes Road.
He's described as a young man, possibly a teenager, wearing
a white shirt at the time. The victim, identified by
police as Jonathan Pettigrew, was rushed to Kobe Hospital, where
he later died.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
If they're missing a data point there from the description
of the suspect, a teenager wearing a white T shirt. Hmm.
Did anyone notice if the teenager had hair? Did anyone
notice if the teenager was of a certain skin color?
(26:21):
Intro This is Remember, this is somebody who has fled
at large, just murdered somebody, and this is a news report.
This is about public safety now, right. We got to
get the word out. Okay, I'm glad that they got
the word out about a teenager wearing a T shirt.
That's gonna help. That's really narrowing it down, isn't it.
But you see, we all see there are these invisible
(26:47):
but omnipresent rules about criminal justice and about these issues
that were about racial issues. We're all supposed to what
how about your fairness, sanity and equality? How about the truth?
We just always say the truth. That would be a
good place to start, wouldn't it, on all of this?
But I would just note that I see this. It's
(27:11):
very common down here in Miami, and it is not
members of the black community that I generally have had
interactions with on this. It is a different community who
like to play incredibly loud music in public places that
are enclosed. For example, they will just play their music
(27:33):
on their phone when they're sitting in like a restaurant,
or they will get on. This is true. I was
in a restaurant, a you know, a like a sit down,
nice restaurant last night, and someone at the table next
to us was just having a full blown FaceTime conversation
that the whole restaurant could hear FaceTime on speaker shouting
(27:54):
to the person, you know, holding up their thing. You know,
I'm talking to my buddy and FaceTime. It's not a
loud restaurant, by the so we all get to hear
this guy's conversation. It's incredibly rude. It's incredibly rude. And manners,
by the way, are actually an important ingredient in civilization,
in our ability to socially interact with each other and
with other people. And this, I know happens on the
(28:16):
subway all the time, producer allies doing. It happens in
the subway all the time. Well in this case, it
happened on a bus. And so it's a hey, can
you keep it down. The guy clearly got super aggressive
and murdered. He murdered somebody because he didn't want to
hear the guy's speakerphone conversation. Now there are different ways
to analyze why people do this. Raphael Manguel, who is
(28:41):
a friend of mine at the Manhattan Institute, is one
of the I think top criminal justice analysts and commentators
on the scene today. We've had him on the show before,
and I want you to hear what he says, specifically
about this incident. Obviously, Raphael is he's a Latin American
background himself, and here's what he is saying about this quote.
(29:04):
I've lost count of how many times I've made this point,
but please take this as a warning and not merely
an observation antisocial behavior behavior. Think about the guy blasting
music from a speaker, talking loudly on speakerphone, smoking inside
the subway car in a public space is often doing
so because they are engaged in it as a dare.
(29:28):
The whole point is to provoke anger and annoyance in
those around him, which serves two purposes depending on the
response he's hoping for. Number One, if everyone bites their tongues,
the anti social jerk gets to tell himself that he's
such a badass, no one would ever dare speak up.
(29:50):
Or two, if someone confronts him, he finds his excuse
to scratch a violent isch. Understand that saying something to
these people will also come often come with a risk
of violent confrontation. End quote. It's absolutely true people do
things like this. It reminds me also of the like
the dirt bike takeovers on the streets of New York City.
(30:13):
They're daring anyone to say anything. They're daring the cops
to even try to stop them. It's meant to show
a power dynamic at play. We the people doing the
anti social thing, do what we want. And if you
try to enforce social norms, if you try to enforce
respect for fellow human beings, will punch you, will stab you,
(30:38):
maybe we'll shoot you. That is a common enough thing
now that people need to be warned about it. And
I think about this sometimes too, you know, I will
have you know, everyone has these kinds of incidents, you know,
I'm amazed at Also, unfortunately, it seems like the bad guys,
(31:01):
the people that like to do this stuff, they get
the more they get away with it, the more that happens.
It's a bit like graffiti in a city. The more
you see graffiti, the more graffiti happens, and the more
people think. You know, but just to be clear, there
are rules in the subway. This isn't like the sum Oh,
but I'm getting the manager. You're not allowed to have
like a boombox blasting me. You're not allowed to do
(31:22):
these things. You're not allowed to You're not supposed. I'm
I'm on an airplane these days, so I fly commercial
like everybody else. I'm on an airplane, and there's about
a seventy percent chance that some jerk, by the way,
could be could be you know, anybody. Actually this is
a this is one where you get everybody's kind of
(31:43):
an equal meaning different profiles. Male, female, you know, white, black.
I've actually never I've actually never seen an Asian do it,
to be fair, but white, black, Hispanic, you know. I
see a lot of people do they do the I'm
going to have like my iPad with no head phones,
and they're told at the beginning of the flight, please
(32:03):
you must use headphones. Use headphones very annoying and distracting
to everyone else who's probably trying to read or watch
their own thing or maybe sleep that you're just blasting.
People just don't care, and they get indignant about it. Now,
a lot of this I think also comes from just
the lack of like male role models and also father
figures in society these days. There's a deeper conversation here,
(32:24):
but uh we for the I know it sounds grandiose,
but for the purposes of maintaining civilization, we actually need
to be able to socially enforce norms, and we need
to call out this kind of antisocial behavior, and anybody
who gets violent in response to it needs to be
severely punished, because that's the way that you can actually
stop it. That's the message that needs to be sent.
(32:48):
Forty years past his presidency, Ronald Reagan is still reference
and referred to as a great president, and for good reason.
He strengthened our resolve and made us proud Americans. He
was also a president who looked after our allies, including Israel.
Freedoms have endured in Israel as they have here, Reagan said,
in our tasks and our talks, we paid special attention
to issues, our commitment to israel security and well being,
(33:09):
and our shared desire to move forward together for a
just and lasting piece between Israel and its Arab neighbors.
As strong, secure Israel is a shared interest. As America
celebrates its two hundred and fiftieth anniversary the International Fellowship
of Christians and Jews. The IFCJ reflects on the friendship
between the United States and Israel, two democracies built on faith, liberty,
and hope. Signed up to receive a free USA Israel
(33:30):
flag pin. When you go online to FLAGPINIFCJ dot org.
That's FLAGPINIFCJ dot org. We have here, we go. We
have some talkbacks different callers. Let's do talkback first up
(33:53):
here from Gus from Minnesota. This is talkback B. He's
upset with us. Karen's are heroes. You guys are zeros.
See yuh switching you off? Well, cause I will miss you.
First of all, it's just me. Don't blame Clay, and
we will miss you. So I just said. In some contexts,
(34:15):
my friend, there are times when someone actually does need
to ask for the manager. There are times when someone
does need to step up and say turn off the
and often if it is a woman who does it violence.
If the offender is male, this kind of the peace
and quiet offender, if you will, is less likely, whereas
if it's a man, often things can escalate very quickly
(34:36):
to a although sometimes they'll get volnd with a woman too,
So it's in that context that I'm saying that's good.
You can disagree with that, but then you just wouldn't
be particularly wise. And let's see who else we got here.
We got Sean from Queen's what's going on? Sean? Is
(34:57):
he still with us?
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Helene?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yes, sir, you're on the air. Go ahead, it's a buck.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
What really bothered me the most about our side regarding
Carmelo Anthony was the preconceived notion of guilt because we
didn't do that, or we didn't even allow that to happen.
With Daniel Tenney, who I agreed with self defense, but
he killed an unarmed black man because of words. But
(35:25):
we said it with self defense and we praised him
and called him a hero. In the Carmelo Anthony situation,
we went to this preconceived notion of guilt without knowing
anything other than one side. I'm a young I was
a young black man growing up in South Jamaica. Queen's Buck.
I carried a pocket knife at the tender age of
(35:45):
fifteen because things happened. I don't know why Carmelo had
a knife. I don't know why he stabbed Austin. Maybe
he couldn't scrap. Maybe he was a punk, I don't know,
but we went to this.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Preconceived notion of Okay, Sean, I appreciate, thank you for
calling in appreciate perspective. I just want to address it
before we get to the break. Here a few things
the Sean Penny situation. There was video, so when you
see video of an incident happen, you tend to have
a better sense of what happened than in this case.
We obviously had to rely on eyewitness testimony. There was
a lot of eyewitness testimony, though in terms of a
(36:20):
preconceived notion, Sean, I agree that somebody should be presumed
innocent until proven guilty. I didn't think that this was
a particularly difficult case because of what happened, Because of
the initial eyewitness testimony was all consistent, black, white, everybody
who saw this. It was consistent throughout. And look, this
(36:41):
is where self defense laws very a bedrock issue of
self defense laws. Were you really under threat when you
did this? Would a normal reasonal person think so? Carmelo
Anthony did not cross that threshold at all. FO
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