October 2, 2026 • 36 mins
Hour 2 of The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show features wide-ranging conversations with Ann Coulter and Steven Crowder, beginning with an extended examination of the controversy surrounding Cornell University, sexual-assault allegations involving former fraternity members, consent, due process, campus investigations, and New York Attorney General Letitia James. Coulter, a Cornell alumna, discusses the publicly reported evidence as described in the case, including the accuser’s written statement, text messages, alcohol and drug use, and questions about consent. Clay, Buck and Coulter argue that emerging details raise substantial questions about the allegations and debate why the case has attracted renewed political attention after earlier investigations. They also examine the involvement of Letitia James, New York Governor Kathy Hochul and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, questioning whether political pressure could lead to criminal charges despite difficulties prosecutors might face at trial. The conversation touches on the Violence Against Women Act, standards of evidence, the reputational consequences facing accused individuals, and comparisons to other highly publicized sexual-assault controversies.
The discussion with Ann Coulter expands into a broader cultural debate over gender equality, feminism, personal responsibility, sexual morality, hookup culture and differing societal expectations for men and women. Coulter and the hosts challenge what they view as inconsistent standards surrounding intoxication, consent and accountability, and Clay presents a gender-reversed hypothetical to question whether allegations involving a male accuser would receive comparable cultural and legal treatment. They also discuss Lindsay Clancy and a separate Tennessee death-row case as part of their larger argument about responsibility and the extent to which gender or personal circumstances should influence judgments about individual conduct. Coulter contends that contemporary progressive attitudes about sex, abortion, monogamy and feminism have helped create contradictions between personal agency and demands for legal or social protection from the consequences of personal choices.
After Coulter’s appearance, Hour 2 continues the Cornell conversation as Clay and Buck consider what might happen next. They speculate about whether Letitia James will pursue criminal charges against the former fraternity members or conduct a highly public investigation that ultimately ends without prosecution. Steven Crowder, host of Louder with Crowder, then joins the program and offers his perspective on the Cornell allegations, discussing the available accounts of consent and comparing the controversy with previous nationally prominent cases including the Duke lacrosse case, Columbia University “Mattress Girl” controversy, the University of Virginia Rolling Stone controversy, Tawana Brawley, Trevor Bauer and Christine Blasey Ford. Clay, Buck and Crowder again use a gender-reversed hypothetical to debate whether the law and American culture apply equivalent standards of consent and personal responsibility to men and women.
Crowder then shifts to his recent Harvard University debate with Harvard Law School professor Randall Kennedy, focused on DEI, affirmative action, racial preferences, discrimination, higher education and political ideology on elite college campuses. Crowder recounts his long-running effort to persuade university professors to debate him following the popularity of his “Change My Mind” campus events. He discusses earlier attempts to arrange debates with professors, the eventual Harvard event, and his experience debating Kennedy. Crowder argues that the event demonstrated the value of open intellectual confrontation rather than insulating political or academic ideas from scrutiny. He and the hosts discuss the ideological composition of Harvard and other Ivy League institutions, political donations by university faculty, commencement speakers, DEI requirements and the relationship between federal funding and university policies.
The conversation also addresses artificial intelligence and the future of higher education after Crowder cites a Harvard study involving an AI tutor and physics students, which he says raises questions about whether traditional university instruction continues to justify its prestige and authority. From there, Crowder, Clay and Buck criticize what they call America’s “credentialism” culture, arguing that elite universities can confer an assumption of superior intelligence that is not always warranted. The discussion turns to Barack Obama’s academic background, including Occidental College, Columbia University and Harvard Law School, as the hosts question how elite academic credentials became such an important marker of political and intellectual authority.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Second hour, Clay and Buck kicks off now. Once again,
joined by our friend, the one and only Ann Coulter,
13-time New York Times bestselling author. Unsafe is her substack,
which is great. I've been reading her columns for years, anncoulter.com.
You can check those out. And you know we're going
to dive into here, and I just want to remind
the audience that I think you and... Unfortunately, Keith Olbermann
(00:26):
might be the most famous Cornell alums in the country,
but you went to Cornell and.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Andy Bernard, Andy Bernard on a fictional level from the office.
Remember how often Andy Bernard would say he went to Cornell?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I were you there. I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Was she there at the same time as Olbermann? Were
you at the same– I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
I think– didn't Ruth Bader Ginsburg, one of the Supreme
Court justices, did, and Nabokov? And, no, there are some
actually illustrious graduates.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
And Keith Olbermann.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Did not go to the Ivy League school, as I
pointed out in a column. He went to the agricultural school.
Cornell is a weird school. There are seven different schools.
There are only one is an Ivy League.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
So you went to the real Cornell.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Cornell on the headlines, obviously, for this– Just shocking whole
situation here. I was telling Clay, you also you really
familiarize me as a reader with the mattress girl story,
which I see some some parallels here. That was at
Columbia University. And just what's your take on the situation
of the alleged AOC says drugging and gang rape that
(01:32):
occurred at Cornell University?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
What do you see?
Speaker 5 (01:35):
Oh, good grief.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Well, before little bits of actual factual information had come out,
I just I think. like a lot of people, I
start wildly skeptical of this.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
We are talking about an American university.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
They're crazy about the, you know, if a man says
hello to you, and that could be a sexual assault.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
And these crazy stats on.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
One out of four women being sexually assaulted in college,
it's completely the reverse.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
A college campus is about the safest place for a woman.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
And they're simultaneously, you know, teaching all these women's studies courses,
And it's been the left pushing just, you know, free sex,
no concern for morality, absolutely moral free world and sex
in every possible way.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
And at the same time, oh, take back the night.
So I start off questioning.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Really finding it hard to believe that if even the
Title IX representative at Cornell University heard this lady's story
and said, no dice, I'm sorry, I do not believe
that an Ivy League university would hear about.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
A gang rape and say, oh, well, boys will be boys.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
No, that didn't happen. I know that didn't happen. And
I talked about this on my sub-sack yesterday. I'd already
looked up the fact. I was looking up some other
stories I was going to be talking about. And soon
before I went on air, I saw that ABC had gotten, oh,
oh my gosh, some actual information about the case, actual facts.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
For one thing, they have her, I.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Guess, six page, I think it's six page, but her
written statement that she corrected, carefully corrected in the margins
and she signed at the end.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
And that has been described. I don't know why ABC
won't just print it and let us see it, but
I have a suspicion.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
ABC David Muir, I played this on my Rumble yesterday.
I think he may get fired for playing this, reported
on the text she had sent, something else I think
they were the first to get, to the main guy
she had gone to this fraternity to have sex with.
And by her own account, she got drunk and then
(03:45):
she wandered through the campus to go to this fraternity
because there was a guy she wanted to have sex with,
so without being invited, certainly without dinner and flowers. She's
going over to have sex with him, and he was
the one she was interested in.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
A few days later, it broke the next morning.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
She found out that everyone knew she was the girl
who had voluntarily engaged in this orgy. Her name was Mudd.
It was totally embarrassing. Yet and still, she's trying to
power through. And she tells this guy, I think people
should just grow up. You know, this is how things
are done now. People are going to be behaving like
this all the time. Why can't they just be adults
(04:30):
about this? So she was really powering through that it was,
this is, you know, that's one part of the leftist
approach to sex, right? Utterly moral free. And by the way,
I think everyone involved in this is a complete moral reprobate.
But the idea that only one of them was an
innocent victim being being, you know, as if in the
(04:52):
movie North by Northwest, they're forcing the drugs down her throat. No,
she said she took the drugs and the alcohol voluntarily.
She said in the statement that they asked to do
some things with her. I think there was a foursome
and doing ketamine on her body. And she said no.
And the police officer says, and did they go ahead
(05:14):
and do it?
Speaker 5 (05:14):
She said no. They took no for an answer.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
So, yeah, I mean, what you have is a consensual,
absolutely disgusting, reprehensible, embarrassing affair. And I think we've seen
this many times before. the more the facts come out,
I think she's going to be very sorry she brought
this lawsuit.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Well, then there's the Tish James thing. But Clay, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you about.
I have done some of these cases in the past.
I don't know if you did any criminal defense work
back in the day. But as you well know, the
seven boys, the young men's, their names are out there everywhere.
They're being tarred and feathered. They're now rapists. You got
people like AOC calling them legitimately gang rapists, saying they
(05:57):
drugged her. They took advantage of her for seven hours.
These facts are not supported, but they are widely distributed
as alternative truths, so to speak. So now Letitia James
is investigating this. Letitia James has already said this woman
was raped. Pretend and that you were representing one of
(06:18):
these seven boys. Maybe they will have collective attorneys representing
the totality of them.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
What would you do?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
How would you try to handle this? Because it feels
like to me it is almost a certainty that they're
going to try to come up with a reason to
charge him with crimes and then they can blame the
jury if the jury ultimately doesn't convict because they're male
and they are the bad guys in the Democrat Party worldview.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
No, that's right.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
And in fact, I did have a couple of these cases.
This is how we got the Violence Against Women Act
declared unconstitutional. It was two cases, black athletes being accused by,
I think it was both times, white female athletes of rape.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
And in both cases, it was because.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
The men they had had sex with were not particularly
gentlemanly about it the next day and were heard joking
about it. This was the one I particularly worked on,
joking about it in the lunchroom. And at that point,
much like much like the alleged victim here. I mean,
it took her three weeks to report this.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
And it all came out because she didn't get invited
to the Halloween party. They took the invitation back. If
they had just let her come to the Halloween party,
none of this might have happened. Sorry to cut you off,
but that is evidently the impetus.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
I think it's a lot more than what had happened
to her reputation. Although she's claiming, oh.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Everybody behaves this way now. It became very.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Clear to her that everyone did not behave that way.
She was being looked at as a whore. She was
embarrassed about it. And, you know, much like Tawana Brawley
didn't want to tell her father.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
She had been out all night with men.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
I mean, this happens all the time when girls don't
want to tell their boyfriends or their fathers that they've
been having sex.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
They claim rape.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
And here it's the entire campus thinking that she's She's
a whore. And I think so far what I've heard
from the attorneys is actually pretty good. I thought it
was hilarious that one of the guys, not hilarious, but
a serious point to make. One of the guys is
accusing her of rape or hostile sexual assault because he
(08:29):
says she, I don't know, she tried to or did,
I don't know, perform oral sex or do something with
him without his consent and he was intoxicated.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
That's what it was. He was intoxicated, and.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
She performed an act on him that he did not
consent to, plus which he couldn't consent because he was intoxicated.
I mean, you already see the defense. And again, why
haven't we seen the full six-page statement? Why haven't we
seen all of the text? I think we should be
suspicious of that because the small amount that is leaked
(09:03):
shows that, of course, the case wasn't brought. They took
no for an answer. She took the drugs consensually. She
consensually engaged in in this orgy. And the only time
she reported his rape was when it was apparently it
was all over the campus by the next morning. And
she woke up finding out that everybody was talking about
her behavior.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Ann Coulter with us now. Unsafe is her substack, guys.
She does fantastic work, and you should go check it out.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Subscribe. Look at her show on Rumble.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
And take me to, if you would, the politics of this,
because you got the governor of New York, who is
a verified imbecile. The attorney general of New York, who
is a verified imbecile, but they are seizing upon this.
They're holding press conferences. They are you know, this is
this is AOC is talking about this everything. Is this
(09:53):
just because Democrats are insane or is this because there's
an election in 30 days and they think this will mobilize?
some of the, you know, emotionally unstable, very online true
crime women or something like what is.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
It more than that? They're crazy or is it? No,
they're just insane. And this is what they do.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
I think it's that they're just insane.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
I mean, this is like waving a red cape in
front of a liberal woman. Like I say, they want
to have it both ways that, you know, ourselves, our bodies,
abortion is the most important sacrament. Instead of just, you know,
telling young women, don't sleep around.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
No.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
Don't get smashed and show up at a fraternity house
at 2 a.m.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
Begging for sex with some guy. Have some respect for yourself.
Speaker 6 (10:38):
No, no, no.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Liberals find that very, very fusty. They will not do that.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
So they have to balance this pushing women into doing insane.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
Things that they should never be doing.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
To, yes, but don't worry if you change your mind,
if something bad happens, we'll accuse the boys of rape
because you have no agency.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
You have no responsibility for getting intoxicated.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
I mean, for Pete's sake, more and more and more
between this woman, the botched execution in Tennessee yesterday, who
invokes Lindsay Clancy because she thinks she shouldn't be held
responsible for this brutal, unbelievably horrific murder she committed back
when she was 18. She's been on death row for
30 years. She compares herself.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Oh, yes, but I was abused as a child.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Lindsay Clancy can't be held responsible for for murdering her
three children. And now you have a woman voluntarily, by
all accounts, by all evidence, participating in an orgy. And no,
she can't be held responsible. But the guys who were
also intoxicated, they could be held responsible.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
If any of what liberals say about women is true,
women cannot vote.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Well, this is what I was going to say. This
is my wife's argument, Ann. She is still fired up
about all the Lindsay Clancy. I think now with what
we're seeing from the Cornell case and I think also
with the Tennessee botched execution, what women are arguing is
that because they are women, they can't be held to
the same standard as men. which is the same argument
(12:15):
that was made for why women shouldn't be allowed to vote.
So the most progressive thought now is just an echo
of 19th century male positions on why women shouldn't have
been given the right to vote. Do the women on
the left recognize this absurdity? Do they not see what
(12:35):
they have managed to create here? It is a world
where women can't be trusted to be treated as equal
with men.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
I'd like to see a poll on this, but this
may be why so many women run from the label feminist.
I don't see the advantage to any male claiming to
be a male feminist.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
Big, big mistake, fellas. Barking up the wrong tree there.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
By the way, women run, as Buckwell knows, too. If
a man describes himself as a male feminist, it's just
because he thinks that's the only way he can get
you to sleep with him. Just FYI. These are these
are often the worst people on the planet.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
And look at the women that would impress.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
So I just think that this liberal women can't get
themselves out of this. They they they are so against normal,
traditional morality, normal, traditional feelings, just common sense. How do
you square that with what's going to happen to women
if you if you unleash them on the world with
(13:42):
with with this utterly immoral instruction, go have sex with
whomever you want to. And, you know, if you get pregnant,
you can just kill off the baby and here we're
going to be. I mean, this has gone on for years.
I don't know if it is still going on, but
this hanging, remember Jocelyn Elders under Clinton wanted to teach
kindergartners how to put on condoms? You had kindergartners and
(14:06):
first graders being taught about fisting. This is a big
thing on the left, that we have to just completely
degrade the act of sex. There should be nothing sacred
about it, nothing monogamous. Oh, monogamy, that is so yesterday's news.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
Look at the New York Times.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
They're basically pushing foursomes and threesomes and polygamy. So how
else are they going to square that behavior with what
will inevitably be a complete disaster for women? It's not
great for men, but a complete disaster for women. And that's... Well,
if you change your mind, if you do end up
(14:42):
getting hurt, don't worry, we'll blame the man. So they've
kind of boxed themselves in with this by insisting, just
will not move off their immoral philosophies.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
And we appreciate it. We know a lot of people
out there, by the way, just as we as we leave.
Can you imagine if a man showed up at a
sorority house, had multiple threesomes, consented to it all drugs
off the bodies, naked, all that stuff. And then two
years later, he sued for millions of dollars in damages
and claimed that he was revoking his consent. How we
would all respond to that lawsuit.
Speaker 5 (15:16):
That would not have happened at DG.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Ed Coulter, we appreciate the time. If you're out there
right now and you're thinking to yourself, I need a
little bit more energy, you're headed into the weekend. Maybe you,
like me, have a high school football game to go to.
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Speaker 3 (16:20):
Smart, fun, sane. The Clay and Buck Show.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Here every day for your listening pleasure. Welcome back in,
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(17:06):
about to talk with Steven Crowder, but I thought Ann
on that case was fantastic. Here is the question. What
do they do if more evidence continues to come out?
Do you think it will just kind of vanish? Or
do you think they're so committed to the idea that
a sexual assault happened here that the facts, as they
continue to come out, won't matter at all?
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I actually started, as we were talking to Ann, maybe
you and I had the same mental processes on this one.
I sort of think they're going to make a lot
of noise about we're getting to the bottom of this
and they have to go through a big show of it.
I assumed with James in the driver's seat here, they
were going to go to a prosecution. They were actually
going to file formal rape charges. I'm less certain of that,
(17:52):
the more I think, just because it's so... They would
do it knowing they would lose. But will they do
it knowing they will lose at trial? That is really
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Speaker 3 (18:51):
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Speaker 1 (18:52):
LearBuck.com. Welcome back into Clay and Buck. We are joined
now by Steven Crowder, host of Louder with Crowder on Rumble.
Also the creator of Change My Mind, where he goes
on college campuses and, well, sees that people can change minds.
his mind he did that started that back in 2016
and uh he also debated on wednesday night against harvard
(19:12):
law professor randall kennedy over dei affirmative action a whole
bunch of things mr crowder looking good sir what is
that is that a pipe it is a pipe you.
Speaker 6 (19:23):
Know it's funny people forget i taught joe rogan how
to smoke a pipe my first appearance like 10 years
ago and um i just often don't really do it
on air but it's been a week so i'm gonna
enjoy it this is an old corn cob by.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
The way that's an american it's friday There you go.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It's Corn Cob Friday here on Clay and Buck, courtesy
of our friend Mr.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Crowder. That's what my lady says. I want to hear
about your Harvard debate.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Let's talk about that. That's better. You want to do
a Harvard debate?
Speaker 4 (19:53):
No, no.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Well, but actually, I first want to ask you if
I could, just because we're talking about a lot. Do
you think these Cornell kids are going to end up
getting charged by Tish James, or are they just going
to make a lot of noise, go through the motions?
but eventually realized that this wasn't charged by the prosecutor
for a reason the first time.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
What do you think?
Speaker 6 (20:12):
Yeah, so we covered it on my show yesterday or
the day before, just to be clear. Now, there have
been some developments, as I understand it, since then. And
I've been doing press appearances and kind of have to do,
you know, on Friday, sometimes have to do some clerical work.
So I don't want to misspeak. But as I understand it,
she was quite the whore. So what we know that matters, like,
(20:33):
in other words, we say we don't want to slut shame.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
And we all kind of are on board with that.
At one point, we go, OK, well, sure. OK, it's Halloween.
Just like that.
Speaker 6 (20:40):
OK, you're you're you're dressed now in a way that
a prostitute. would have been picked up immediately in just,
you know, the 1980s. But sure, we'll go along with that.
And now we're like, we don't want to slut shame
someone who took ketamine and requested a threesome multiple times
until the break of dawn. Well, then I guess we
just can't slut shame anybody. We have to say that
sluts were a figment of our imagination. Now, there's so
(21:01):
much here that doesn't add up. And there are so
many cases, right? So I err on the side of
whatever it is the left is saying, they're most likely lying.
And by the way, I have about an 80% chance
of getting that right. So if I'm a betting man,
those are the odds that I'm playing. But I've looked
into this case. And of course, the story she's telling now,
it's like Christine Blasey Ford, not the same as the
story she told before. She willingly took drugs, willingly ingested, obviously,
(21:23):
all the alcohol, willingly engaged in the sexual activity, didn't
say that it was an assault early on. And we
saw Mattress Girl at Columbia, Duke Lacrosse, UVA hoax, there's
Tawana Brawley, Trevor Bauer. There are so many of these
I'm at the point where you really better prove something
that we haven't heard yet. That's where I am. And,
you know, hey, if she wants to be a dime
(21:45):
store floozy, you know, more power to her. Just when
you decide to wear the title, then, you know.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
You keep it for life.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Steven, I want to get your take on this because
I think you probably will have an entertaining one. Guy
goes to a sorority house. engages in sexual activity with
seven different women, snorts drugs off their bodies.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
But what do your fantasies have to do with this?
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Snorts drugs off their bodies, has them doing the same.
Consent says one might imagine he would to all of it.
Everybody on campus finds out about it. A couple of
weeks later, the girls say, you can't come to our
Halloween party. He decides that maybe he did not consent.
Two years later, he files a lawsuit saying that upon retrospect,
(22:28):
he did not consent to any of this. We kind
of have a little bit of a test case on this,
because if you remember the investment banker guy who tried
to say that he was the sex slave of the
other investment banker.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
And no one believed it when they saw the photo
of her or the photo of him. She referred to
his wife as a fish head. Like it was so
clear that he was making it up and said, she
said my good wife is fish head, but she doesn't
have cannons like this.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
Remember?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I mean, it was an amazing, but everybody made fun
of the guy. Because they said, hey, this sounds like
the best boss ever, right? Basically, you should have just
been her willing sex slave. We would all ridicule a
guy who filed that lawsuit if we sent him to
a sorority house instead of her to a fraternity house.
If we had truly an equal treatment of men and
(23:18):
women under the law, shouldn't our response be the exact
same in terms of ridiculing her as we would be
ridiculing the guy?
Speaker 6 (23:27):
Yeah, and I think you make a very important point,
but I would say I'd break it up into two
kind of separate points. One, yes, of course, in the
eyes of the law, we should. Two, yes, also culturally,
meaning the law should apply equally. Culturally, we should laugh
at and shame both groups of people equally. The problem
(23:48):
is this really does stem from culture because women have
been made unaccountable for largely any of their actions. I mean,
look at Lindsay Clancy and people will say, oh, you're
picking the most extreme example. No, I'm talking about nine
jurors and I'm talking about every poll that we have,
at least half, give or take, of American women who
think she was not guilty and blame the husband.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Blame the husband, right? That's an extreme example, but it's
one that we all know. The same thing here.
Speaker 6 (24:13):
It's not going to play out any other way until
women start policing themselves. If there's something else that we
don't know, and if she was slipped the drug of.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Look, we all agree. Actual rapists. OK, bury them beneath
the railroad tracks. Cool. Bury them underneath the prison. We
get that.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
We're the party that says pedophiles should get the death penalty.
I get it.
Speaker 6 (24:35):
But the me too thing screwed all this up where
sometimes you just end up with a bad date or
in this case, a lady who is. Let me put
a finer point on it. She quite this is not
just sort of a colloquialism. She quite literally was asking.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
For it repeatedly. But people go, what are you saying?
She was asking for it because she actually asked for it. Now,
what do we do? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Like many, many times for many, many people, from what
we understand, Stephen Crowder, guys, louder with Crowder. We wanted
to get you to just tell us. It's funny, actually,
I was going to go to Harvard recently to give
a speech. And unfortunately, I got big footed by some
world leader from the U.N. General Assembly or something. So
I would have missed you by a couple of weeks.
I'm really curious then about this. What was the atmosphere
(25:21):
like for this debate? I mean, you know, you went
to Harvard. Were they were they welcoming? Were there safety concerns?
Were there security? And we can get to the substance
of it, too. But I just wonder what the atmosphere
on campus, obviously, a post Charlie Kirkworld, what this is
like now.
Speaker 6 (25:36):
Well, I will tell you, this is something I've been
trying to do for, I mean, people say a decade.
It's really probably more like eight or nine years. The
first team to mine, I think, was in 2017 that
we released publicly. When we started it and we were
doing it on campus, first off, it would just be
in a city. And then kids would say, hey, could
you come do this on my campus? Because no one's
having these conversations. And we always thought, well, great. And
we'd always extend an invitation to professors. The idea, think
(25:57):
of like in an old Nintendo game, the final boss professor.
Not only did I never show up, we were usually
being booted from campus for which we had a valid
permit from the professors. And so then we issued a
formal call out to professors publicly and then offered $ 10, 000
to the charity or department of their choosing. We had
(26:18):
another professor agree to do it at Harvard. We said,
we'll do it wherever you want. You can pick the
moderator and you can pick the rules and we'll agree
to them. She demanded that it not be live streamed.
Danielle Allen, I believe her name, and she demanded the
right to back to the rape retroactively remove her consent
within three days if she didn't like the way that
it went. So we said no. It moved to UPenn
with Professor John Zimmerman. Within days of the live stream,
(26:41):
they said you can't live stream. So finally, this happened.
Professor Randall Kennedy, Oxford, Princeton, Yale, Thurgood Marshall Clerk Forum
and tenured since 1989. You don't get more qualified than that.
And the point was here.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
I'll tell you what. I was incredibly intimidated.
Speaker 6 (27:00):
I've had people on my show, you know, I've had governors,
I've had senators, I've had other people where there'd be
online debates, but people say, well, yeah, it's not a
real debate. You're just talking with kids on campus. Okay,
their territory, their rules, their best, and it's not that
I'm anything formidable. Either their ideas stand up to scrutiny
or they don't, and people can go and watch the
(27:21):
debate and.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Make up their own minds.
Speaker 6 (27:23):
But there was a lot of pressure on me on
this one. A college dropout, I guess, didn't do too badly.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
I would say this, and Buck certainly in this camp,
you know I am. I've been on your show several times.
The right or the sane America, because I think it's
about 75% of people, is willing to actually engage in debate.
You have a different.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Opinion than us.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Come on, explain why we're wrong. I find it somewhat
encouraging that this debate even happened at a place like Harvard.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Do you? Well, I do. Not that it took 10 years.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
And I think it'll probably after the way it went down,
it'll probably take another 10. I think I think they
probably had a couple of meetings at Harvard saying we
can't do that again. There was a bomb threat I
found out that day later. It wasn't related to the event.
And then that exact same day, this really could be
a seminal moment. And I don't just say this to
pat myself on the back before I went out there
and I was doing preparation. A study was released that
(28:22):
a custom AI tutor at Harvard, I believe 160 students.
It was a physics class. They compared a group. They
split them into two groups, AI tutor versus those in
an actual hands-on in-person learning environment. And those who used
the AI tutor learned twice as much and completed the
tasks in, I think, 49 minutes versus 60 minutes. That
happened the same day that, I mean, the debate wasn't
(28:44):
even close. And I don't say that because I obviously
have a bias. I say it because I said in
my opening statement, I told people exactly what he would
do down to the letter.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
He did it anyway.
Speaker 6 (28:58):
And I finished his phrases for him before he could
finish it himself because I knew exactly what he would say.
And again, it's not that it's just this professor. It's
what you'll find from every professor at Harvard teaching these
same ideas. And I've encountered them time and time again.
I'll tell you this. If one big takeaway... Change my
mind is not debate. Change my mind is kind of
(29:18):
the first street version.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
It's rhetoric.
Speaker 6 (29:21):
And when people sit down, we go all the way
through and we don't edit it. If someone's in bad
faith and going up saying, blah, blah, blah, whatever, I go, okay,
it's time for you to go. But I don't boot
them because I don't think that's fair. So in this case, it's, okay,
we have time. We have a very clearly drawn line.
And I am aiming to make it very clear that
our ideas are better. It is an actual debate. And
(29:41):
it was significantly easier than sitting down for five hours
with all comers because I don't.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Think you, Stephen, real quick.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I mean, and by the way, I'm going to do
to you what I always tell my wife not to
do to me, which is after three hours of live radio.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
She's like, what do you talk about today? I'm like, oh, God, please. Anything.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
But the summation of three hours of radio right after radio.
Can you just give me the, what, what.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Is this guy?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Just history, you know, history of racism, but also we
need to give it to Hispanics for no apparent reason,
but also native Americans. That's why we need DEI because
of the, like the reservations. I mean, what was, was
it just the most kind of a rote basic left-wing
liberalism stuff?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
And what was his POV? And here's the thing.
Speaker 6 (30:24):
He is more reasonable. He is more moderate. But that's
not enough to change the tone at Harvard. It's 95
percent of political donations go to Democrats. You'll find numbers
as high as 99. I always use the conservative numbers.
If you look at commencement speakers at Ivy Leagues in general,
there was a Johnson and Zhang.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Study, 1800 speakers.
Speaker 6 (30:43):
Across 52 schools, Harvard included. It was at least a three,
usually about a seven to one ratio of left to
right for 36 straight years.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
They had a DEI pledge.
Speaker 6 (30:54):
And what I said he would do is the left
will act as though a pause in federal funding. over
teaching discriminatory practices is the same as burning books, and
it's not. He will chalk it up to being, you know,
an organic representation. San Francisco will give you close to 80-20.
There's a DEI pledge. That's a litmus test. And this
man will condemn the practice to be reasonable, but defend
(31:17):
the institution anyway. And that's exactly what he did. There
was no pivot. And this is the best they have
to offer. And a very, very nice guy. And I
have all the respect in the world for him. But
my point is, hey, if a college dropout who people
have said has no business being there in the halls
of academia with the elite can do what we did,
that means that other people out there can, too.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
I hope the kids see this. And anytime someone says, well,
you know what? We should be. We want the intelligent folks.
You know why Barack Obama was president? Let's be honest. Harvard.
Speaker 6 (31:47):
A junior senator with a voting record that was largely
just present. We don't even have his records unsealed. The
only head of the Harvard Law Review who went completely unpublished,
by the way.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
What do they always say? He's really smart. Harvard, you
know what I've always said? He's smart. I don't think
he's that smart. I say the same thing about this professor.
He's smart. He's not as smart as people tell you.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Well, the credentialism factory– Stephen, we could do a whole
show just on this with you because I've seen this
up close and personal in a whole bunch of different ways.
But he went to– no shade at Occidental, but he
was at Occidental before and then suddenly gets into Columbia
and then suddenly gets into Harvard Law School. And the
presidents before him who ran shared their SATs. And then
that became– you weren't allowed to say, well, why can't
(32:30):
we see this president's– presidential candidates' SATs? That was considered racist.
So the point is Harvard has been doing this for
a long time. putting the stamp of intellectual elitism on
people who actually are not in no meaningful way smarter
than the people that they think they should lord over
and rule over so uh we're by the way we're
linking the debate up on the website and uh let's
(32:52):
come back and let's come back and get you to
hang some other time.
Speaker 6 (32:55):
We really appreciate it keep up the good work i
appreciate it thank you very much i appreciate it i
know it's friday so you guys probably want to get
to uh having some, you know, make, make an old
corn cob Friday, go, uh, go have a good old,
good old time with the ladies and tell them no
summaries of the last three hours, just corn cabin.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I'm going to say Steven's orders, honey, you know, Steven's orders,
corn cob pipe smoking.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
All right.
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Speaker 7 (34:22):
Laugh learn hang with the guys right there when you
need them most clay and buck just preset them on
the i heard.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
It welcome back in clay and buck we are rolling
through the friday edition of the program hope all of
you are having a fantastic friday so far uh we'll
take some of your calls in the third hour of
the program we've had a couple of awesome guests steven
crowder just on with us and coulter on with us
as well encourage you to go subscribe to the podcast
especially if you're going to be on the road any
(34:51):
decent amount of time and you just want to be
able to take us with you. We also love the
fact that so many of you are streaming now the
show live on video every single day as well. So
thank you for being a part of this universe here.
And Buck, we got some.
(35:12):
Some interesting takes. We've been talking about how how much
can we treat these polls as legitimate? Harry Enten on
CNN pointed out that the value of September polls, basically
from a Republican perspective, has been nearly nonexistent.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Listen.
Speaker 7 (35:30):
The leads that the Democrats have in all of these
races right now are under how much the GOP outperformed
back in 2024. But what about a midterm election? You
can go back to Donald Trump's first midterm election.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
And it's the same exact story. Look at this.
Speaker 7 (35:45):
The GOP outperformed September polls in the major 2018 statewide
races by six points in Iowa, six points in Ohio,
and eight points in Michigan.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
The bottom line is this.
Speaker 7 (35:56):
Over the last few cycles, whether it be 2018, 2016, 2020, 2024,
Republicans have outperformed their September polls by at least five
points in all these three states where Democrats right now
are ahead, but not by a wide enough margin whereby
if Republicans outperform their September polls again, it could become very,
(36:16):
very interesting.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
This is important, Buck.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Go vote. Go vote. Go vote.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Do not get discouraged by what you are seeing in
the media. Everything has been wrong for basically a decade
or more, and it always runs against the Republican Party.
I'm feeling increasingly optimistic. Get out and vote. Get your
friends and family out voting. When we come back, Charles
Barkley teeing off on Democrats.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
We got it for you.
Second hour, Clay and Buck kicks off now. Once again,
joined by our friend, the one and only Ann Coulter,
13-time New York Times bestselling author. Unsafe is her substack,
which is great. I've been reading her columns for years, anncoulter.com.
You can check those out. And you know we're going
to dive into here, and I just want to remind
the audience that I think you and... Unfortunately, Keith Olbermann
(00:26):
might be the most famous Cornell alums in the country,
but you went to Cornell and.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Andy Bernard, Andy Bernard on a fictional level from the office.
Remember how often Andy Bernard would say he went to Cornell?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I were you there. I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Was she there at the same time as Olbermann? Were
you at the same– I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
I think– didn't Ruth Bader Ginsburg, one of the Supreme
Court justices, did, and Nabokov? And, no, there are some
actually illustrious graduates.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
And Keith Olbermann.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Did not go to the Ivy League school, as I
pointed out in a column. He went to the agricultural school.
Cornell is a weird school. There are seven different schools.
There are only one is an Ivy League.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
So you went to the real Cornell.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Cornell on the headlines, obviously, for this– Just shocking whole
situation here. I was telling Clay, you also you really
familiarize me as a reader with the mattress girl story,
which I see some some parallels here. That was at
Columbia University. And just what's your take on the situation
of the alleged AOC says drugging and gang rape that
(01:32):
occurred at Cornell University?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
What do you see?
Speaker 5 (01:35):
Oh, good grief.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Well, before little bits of actual factual information had come out,
I just I think. like a lot of people, I
start wildly skeptical of this.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
We are talking about an American university.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
They're crazy about the, you know, if a man says
hello to you, and that could be a sexual assault.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
And these crazy stats on.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
One out of four women being sexually assaulted in college,
it's completely the reverse.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
A college campus is about the safest place for a woman.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
And they're simultaneously, you know, teaching all these women's studies courses,
And it's been the left pushing just, you know, free sex,
no concern for morality, absolutely moral free world and sex
in every possible way.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
And at the same time, oh, take back the night.
So I start off questioning.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Really finding it hard to believe that if even the
Title IX representative at Cornell University heard this lady's story
and said, no dice, I'm sorry, I do not believe
that an Ivy League university would hear about.
Speaker 5 (02:47):
A gang rape and say, oh, well, boys will be boys.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
No, that didn't happen. I know that didn't happen. And
I talked about this on my sub-sack yesterday. I'd already
looked up the fact. I was looking up some other
stories I was going to be talking about. And soon
before I went on air, I saw that ABC had gotten, oh,
oh my gosh, some actual information about the case, actual facts.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
For one thing, they have her, I.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Guess, six page, I think it's six page, but her
written statement that she corrected, carefully corrected in the margins
and she signed at the end.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
And that has been described. I don't know why ABC
won't just print it and let us see it, but
I have a suspicion.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
ABC David Muir, I played this on my Rumble yesterday.
I think he may get fired for playing this, reported
on the text she had sent, something else I think
they were the first to get, to the main guy
she had gone to this fraternity to have sex with.
And by her own account, she got drunk and then
(03:45):
she wandered through the campus to go to this fraternity
because there was a guy she wanted to have sex with,
so without being invited, certainly without dinner and flowers. She's
going over to have sex with him, and he was
the one she was interested in.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
A few days later, it broke the next morning.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
She found out that everyone knew she was the girl
who had voluntarily engaged in this orgy. Her name was Mudd.
It was totally embarrassing. Yet and still, she's trying to
power through. And she tells this guy, I think people
should just grow up. You know, this is how things
are done now. People are going to be behaving like
this all the time. Why can't they just be adults
(04:30):
about this? So she was really powering through that it was,
this is, you know, that's one part of the leftist
approach to sex, right? Utterly moral free. And by the way,
I think everyone involved in this is a complete moral reprobate.
But the idea that only one of them was an
innocent victim being being, you know, as if in the
(04:52):
movie North by Northwest, they're forcing the drugs down her throat. No,
she said she took the drugs and the alcohol voluntarily.
She said in the statement that they asked to do
some things with her. I think there was a foursome
and doing ketamine on her body. And she said no.
And the police officer says, and did they go ahead
(05:14):
and do it?
Speaker 5 (05:14):
She said no. They took no for an answer.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
So, yeah, I mean, what you have is a consensual,
absolutely disgusting, reprehensible, embarrassing affair. And I think we've seen
this many times before. the more the facts come out,
I think she's going to be very sorry she brought
this lawsuit.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Well, then there's the Tish James thing. But Clay, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you about.
I have done some of these cases in the past.
I don't know if you did any criminal defense work
back in the day. But as you well know, the
seven boys, the young men's, their names are out there everywhere.
They're being tarred and feathered. They're now rapists. You got
people like AOC calling them legitimately gang rapists, saying they
(05:57):
drugged her. They took advantage of her for seven hours.
These facts are not supported, but they are widely distributed
as alternative truths, so to speak. So now Letitia James
is investigating this. Letitia James has already said this woman
was raped. Pretend and that you were representing one of
(06:18):
these seven boys. Maybe they will have collective attorneys representing
the totality of them.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
What would you do?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
How would you try to handle this? Because it feels
like to me it is almost a certainty that they're
going to try to come up with a reason to
charge him with crimes and then they can blame the
jury if the jury ultimately doesn't convict because they're male
and they are the bad guys in the Democrat Party worldview.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
No, that's right.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
And in fact, I did have a couple of these cases.
This is how we got the Violence Against Women Act
declared unconstitutional. It was two cases, black athletes being accused by,
I think it was both times, white female athletes of rape.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
And in both cases, it was because.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
The men they had had sex with were not particularly
gentlemanly about it the next day and were heard joking
about it. This was the one I particularly worked on,
joking about it in the lunchroom. And at that point,
much like much like the alleged victim here. I mean,
it took her three weeks to report this.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
And it all came out because she didn't get invited
to the Halloween party. They took the invitation back. If
they had just let her come to the Halloween party,
none of this might have happened. Sorry to cut you off,
but that is evidently the impetus.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
I think it's a lot more than what had happened
to her reputation. Although she's claiming, oh.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Everybody behaves this way now. It became very.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Clear to her that everyone did not behave that way.
She was being looked at as a whore. She was
embarrassed about it. And, you know, much like Tawana Brawley
didn't want to tell her father.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
She had been out all night with men.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
I mean, this happens all the time when girls don't
want to tell their boyfriends or their fathers that they've
been having sex.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
They claim rape.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
And here it's the entire campus thinking that she's She's
a whore. And I think so far what I've heard
from the attorneys is actually pretty good. I thought it
was hilarious that one of the guys, not hilarious, but
a serious point to make. One of the guys is
accusing her of rape or hostile sexual assault because he
(08:29):
says she, I don't know, she tried to or did,
I don't know, perform oral sex or do something with
him without his consent and he was intoxicated.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
That's what it was. He was intoxicated, and.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
She performed an act on him that he did not
consent to, plus which he couldn't consent because he was intoxicated.
I mean, you already see the defense. And again, why
haven't we seen the full six-page statement? Why haven't we
seen all of the text? I think we should be
suspicious of that because the small amount that is leaked
(09:03):
shows that, of course, the case wasn't brought. They took
no for an answer. She took the drugs consensually. She
consensually engaged in in this orgy. And the only time
she reported his rape was when it was apparently it
was all over the campus by the next morning. And
she woke up finding out that everybody was talking about
her behavior.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Ann Coulter with us now. Unsafe is her substack, guys.
She does fantastic work, and you should go check it out.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Subscribe. Look at her show on Rumble.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
And take me to, if you would, the politics of this,
because you got the governor of New York, who is
a verified imbecile. The attorney general of New York, who
is a verified imbecile, but they are seizing upon this.
They're holding press conferences. They are you know, this is
this is AOC is talking about this everything. Is this
(09:53):
just because Democrats are insane or is this because there's
an election in 30 days and they think this will mobilize?
some of the, you know, emotionally unstable, very online true
crime women or something like what is.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
It more than that? They're crazy or is it? No,
they're just insane. And this is what they do.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
I think it's that they're just insane.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
I mean, this is like waving a red cape in
front of a liberal woman. Like I say, they want
to have it both ways that, you know, ourselves, our bodies,
abortion is the most important sacrament. Instead of just, you know,
telling young women, don't sleep around.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
No.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
Don't get smashed and show up at a fraternity house
at 2 a.m.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
Begging for sex with some guy. Have some respect for yourself.
Speaker 6 (10:38):
No, no, no.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Liberals find that very, very fusty. They will not do that.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
So they have to balance this pushing women into doing insane.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
Things that they should never be doing.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
To, yes, but don't worry if you change your mind,
if something bad happens, we'll accuse the boys of rape
because you have no agency.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
You have no responsibility for getting intoxicated.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
I mean, for Pete's sake, more and more and more
between this woman, the botched execution in Tennessee yesterday, who
invokes Lindsay Clancy because she thinks she shouldn't be held
responsible for this brutal, unbelievably horrific murder she committed back
when she was 18. She's been on death row for
30 years. She compares herself.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
Oh, yes, but I was abused as a child.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Lindsay Clancy can't be held responsible for for murdering her
three children. And now you have a woman voluntarily, by
all accounts, by all evidence, participating in an orgy. And no,
she can't be held responsible. But the guys who were
also intoxicated, they could be held responsible.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
If any of what liberals say about women is true,
women cannot vote.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Well, this is what I was going to say. This
is my wife's argument, Ann. She is still fired up
about all the Lindsay Clancy. I think now with what
we're seeing from the Cornell case and I think also
with the Tennessee botched execution, what women are arguing is
that because they are women, they can't be held to
the same standard as men. which is the same argument
(12:15):
that was made for why women shouldn't be allowed to vote.
So the most progressive thought now is just an echo
of 19th century male positions on why women shouldn't have
been given the right to vote. Do the women on
the left recognize this absurdity? Do they not see what
(12:35):
they have managed to create here? It is a world
where women can't be trusted to be treated as equal
with men.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
I'd like to see a poll on this, but this
may be why so many women run from the label feminist.
I don't see the advantage to any male claiming to
be a male feminist.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
Big, big mistake, fellas. Barking up the wrong tree there.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
By the way, women run, as Buckwell knows, too. If
a man describes himself as a male feminist, it's just
because he thinks that's the only way he can get
you to sleep with him. Just FYI. These are these
are often the worst people on the planet.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
And look at the women that would impress.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
So I just think that this liberal women can't get
themselves out of this. They they they are so against normal,
traditional morality, normal, traditional feelings, just common sense. How do
you square that with what's going to happen to women
if you if you unleash them on the world with
(13:42):
with with this utterly immoral instruction, go have sex with
whomever you want to. And, you know, if you get pregnant,
you can just kill off the baby and here we're
going to be. I mean, this has gone on for years.
I don't know if it is still going on, but
this hanging, remember Jocelyn Elders under Clinton wanted to teach
kindergartners how to put on condoms? You had kindergartners and
(14:06):
first graders being taught about fisting. This is a big
thing on the left, that we have to just completely
degrade the act of sex. There should be nothing sacred
about it, nothing monogamous. Oh, monogamy, that is so yesterday's news.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
Look at the New York Times.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
They're basically pushing foursomes and threesomes and polygamy. So how
else are they going to square that behavior with what
will inevitably be a complete disaster for women? It's not
great for men, but a complete disaster for women. And that's... Well,
if you change your mind, if you do end up
(14:42):
getting hurt, don't worry, we'll blame the man. So they've
kind of boxed themselves in with this by insisting, just
will not move off their immoral philosophies.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
And we appreciate it. We know a lot of people
out there, by the way, just as we as we leave.
Can you imagine if a man showed up at a
sorority house, had multiple threesomes, consented to it all drugs
off the bodies, naked, all that stuff. And then two
years later, he sued for millions of dollars in damages
and claimed that he was revoking his consent. How we
would all respond to that lawsuit.
Speaker 5 (15:16):
That would not have happened at DG.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Ed Coulter, we appreciate the time. If you're out there
right now and you're thinking to yourself, I need a
little bit more energy, you're headed into the weekend. Maybe you,
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Speaker 3 (16:20):
Smart, fun, sane. The Clay and Buck Show.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Here every day for your listening pleasure. Welcome back in,
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(17:06):
about to talk with Steven Crowder, but I thought Ann
on that case was fantastic. Here is the question. What
do they do if more evidence continues to come out?
Do you think it will just kind of vanish? Or
do you think they're so committed to the idea that
a sexual assault happened here that the facts, as they
continue to come out, won't matter at all?
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I actually started, as we were talking to Ann, maybe
you and I had the same mental processes on this one.
I sort of think they're going to make a lot
of noise about we're getting to the bottom of this
and they have to go through a big show of it.
I assumed with James in the driver's seat here, they
were going to go to a prosecution. They were actually
going to file formal rape charges. I'm less certain of that,
(17:52):
the more I think, just because it's so... They would
do it knowing they would lose. But will they do
it knowing they will lose at trial? That is really
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Speaker 3 (18:51):
L-E-A-R.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
LearBuck.com. Welcome back into Clay and Buck. We are joined
now by Steven Crowder, host of Louder with Crowder on Rumble.
Also the creator of Change My Mind, where he goes
on college campuses and, well, sees that people can change minds.
his mind he did that started that back in 2016
and uh he also debated on wednesday night against harvard
(19:12):
law professor randall kennedy over dei affirmative action a whole
bunch of things mr crowder looking good sir what is
that is that a pipe it is a pipe you.
Speaker 6 (19:23):
Know it's funny people forget i taught joe rogan how
to smoke a pipe my first appearance like 10 years
ago and um i just often don't really do it
on air but it's been a week so i'm gonna
enjoy it this is an old corn cob by.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
The way that's an american it's friday There you go.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It's Corn Cob Friday here on Clay and Buck, courtesy
of our friend Mr.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Crowder. That's what my lady says. I want to hear
about your Harvard debate.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Let's talk about that. That's better. You want to do
a Harvard debate?
Speaker 4 (19:53):
No, no.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Well, but actually, I first want to ask you if
I could, just because we're talking about a lot. Do
you think these Cornell kids are going to end up
getting charged by Tish James, or are they just going
to make a lot of noise, go through the motions?
but eventually realized that this wasn't charged by the prosecutor
for a reason the first time.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
What do you think?
Speaker 6 (20:12):
Yeah, so we covered it on my show yesterday or
the day before, just to be clear. Now, there have
been some developments, as I understand it, since then. And
I've been doing press appearances and kind of have to do,
you know, on Friday, sometimes have to do some clerical work.
So I don't want to misspeak. But as I understand it,
she was quite the whore. So what we know that matters, like,
(20:33):
in other words, we say we don't want to slut shame.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
And we all kind of are on board with that.
At one point, we go, OK, well, sure. OK, it's Halloween.
Just like that.
Speaker 6 (20:40):
OK, you're you're you're dressed now in a way that
a prostitute. would have been picked up immediately in just,
you know, the 1980s. But sure, we'll go along with that.
And now we're like, we don't want to slut shame
someone who took ketamine and requested a threesome multiple times
until the break of dawn. Well, then I guess we
just can't slut shame anybody. We have to say that
sluts were a figment of our imagination. Now, there's so
(21:01):
much here that doesn't add up. And there are so
many cases, right? So I err on the side of
whatever it is the left is saying, they're most likely lying.
And by the way, I have about an 80% chance
of getting that right. So if I'm a betting man,
those are the odds that I'm playing. But I've looked
into this case. And of course, the story she's telling now,
it's like Christine Blasey Ford, not the same as the
story she told before. She willingly took drugs, willingly ingested, obviously,
(21:23):
all the alcohol, willingly engaged in the sexual activity, didn't
say that it was an assault early on. And we
saw Mattress Girl at Columbia, Duke Lacrosse, UVA hoax, there's
Tawana Brawley, Trevor Bauer. There are so many of these
I'm at the point where you really better prove something
that we haven't heard yet. That's where I am. And,
you know, hey, if she wants to be a dime
(21:45):
store floozy, you know, more power to her. Just when
you decide to wear the title, then, you know.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
You keep it for life.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Steven, I want to get your take on this because
I think you probably will have an entertaining one. Guy
goes to a sorority house. engages in sexual activity with
seven different women, snorts drugs off their bodies.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
But what do your fantasies have to do with this?
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Snorts drugs off their bodies, has them doing the same.
Consent says one might imagine he would to all of it.
Everybody on campus finds out about it. A couple of
weeks later, the girls say, you can't come to our
Halloween party. He decides that maybe he did not consent.
Two years later, he files a lawsuit saying that upon retrospect,
(22:28):
he did not consent to any of this. We kind
of have a little bit of a test case on this,
because if you remember the investment banker guy who tried
to say that he was the sex slave of the
other investment banker.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
And no one believed it when they saw the photo
of her or the photo of him. She referred to
his wife as a fish head. Like it was so
clear that he was making it up and said, she
said my good wife is fish head, but she doesn't
have cannons like this.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
Remember?
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I mean, it was an amazing, but everybody made fun
of the guy. Because they said, hey, this sounds like
the best boss ever, right? Basically, you should have just
been her willing sex slave. We would all ridicule a
guy who filed that lawsuit if we sent him to
a sorority house instead of her to a fraternity house.
If we had truly an equal treatment of men and
(23:18):
women under the law, shouldn't our response be the exact
same in terms of ridiculing her as we would be
ridiculing the guy?
Speaker 6 (23:27):
Yeah, and I think you make a very important point,
but I would say I'd break it up into two
kind of separate points. One, yes, of course, in the
eyes of the law, we should. Two, yes, also culturally,
meaning the law should apply equally. Culturally, we should laugh
at and shame both groups of people equally. The problem
(23:48):
is this really does stem from culture because women have
been made unaccountable for largely any of their actions. I mean,
look at Lindsay Clancy and people will say, oh, you're
picking the most extreme example. No, I'm talking about nine
jurors and I'm talking about every poll that we have,
at least half, give or take, of American women who
think she was not guilty and blame the husband.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Blame the husband, right? That's an extreme example, but it's
one that we all know. The same thing here.
Speaker 6 (24:13):
It's not going to play out any other way until
women start policing themselves. If there's something else that we
don't know, and if she was slipped the drug of.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Look, we all agree. Actual rapists. OK, bury them beneath
the railroad tracks. Cool. Bury them underneath the prison. We
get that.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
We're the party that says pedophiles should get the death penalty.
I get it.
Speaker 6 (24:35):
But the me too thing screwed all this up where
sometimes you just end up with a bad date or
in this case, a lady who is. Let me put
a finer point on it. She quite this is not
just sort of a colloquialism. She quite literally was asking.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
For it repeatedly. But people go, what are you saying?
She was asking for it because she actually asked for it. Now,
what do we do? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Like many, many times for many, many people, from what
we understand, Stephen Crowder, guys, louder with Crowder. We wanted
to get you to just tell us. It's funny, actually,
I was going to go to Harvard recently to give
a speech. And unfortunately, I got big footed by some
world leader from the U.N. General Assembly or something. So
I would have missed you by a couple of weeks.
I'm really curious then about this. What was the atmosphere
(25:21):
like for this debate? I mean, you know, you went
to Harvard. Were they were they welcoming? Were there safety concerns?
Were there security? And we can get to the substance
of it, too. But I just wonder what the atmosphere
on campus, obviously, a post Charlie Kirkworld, what this is
like now.
Speaker 6 (25:36):
Well, I will tell you, this is something I've been
trying to do for, I mean, people say a decade.
It's really probably more like eight or nine years. The
first team to mine, I think, was in 2017 that
we released publicly. When we started it and we were
doing it on campus, first off, it would just be
in a city. And then kids would say, hey, could
you come do this on my campus? Because no one's
having these conversations. And we always thought, well, great. And
we'd always extend an invitation to professors. The idea, think
(25:57):
of like in an old Nintendo game, the final boss professor.
Not only did I never show up, we were usually
being booted from campus for which we had a valid
permit from the professors. And so then we issued a
formal call out to professors publicly and then offered $ 10, 000
to the charity or department of their choosing. We had
(26:18):
another professor agree to do it at Harvard. We said,
we'll do it wherever you want. You can pick the
moderator and you can pick the rules and we'll agree
to them. She demanded that it not be live streamed.
Danielle Allen, I believe her name, and she demanded the
right to back to the rape retroactively remove her consent
within three days if she didn't like the way that
it went. So we said no. It moved to UPenn
with Professor John Zimmerman. Within days of the live stream,
(26:41):
they said you can't live stream. So finally, this happened.
Professor Randall Kennedy, Oxford, Princeton, Yale, Thurgood Marshall Clerk Forum
and tenured since 1989. You don't get more qualified than that.
And the point was here.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
I'll tell you what. I was incredibly intimidated.
Speaker 6 (27:00):
I've had people on my show, you know, I've had governors,
I've had senators, I've had other people where there'd be
online debates, but people say, well, yeah, it's not a
real debate. You're just talking with kids on campus. Okay,
their territory, their rules, their best, and it's not that
I'm anything formidable. Either their ideas stand up to scrutiny
or they don't, and people can go and watch the
(27:21):
debate and.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Make up their own minds.
Speaker 6 (27:23):
But there was a lot of pressure on me on
this one. A college dropout, I guess, didn't do too badly.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
I would say this, and Buck certainly in this camp,
you know I am. I've been on your show several times.
The right or the sane America, because I think it's
about 75% of people, is willing to actually engage in debate.
You have a different.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Opinion than us.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Come on, explain why we're wrong. I find it somewhat
encouraging that this debate even happened at a place like Harvard.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Do you? Well, I do. Not that it took 10 years.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
And I think it'll probably after the way it went down,
it'll probably take another 10. I think I think they
probably had a couple of meetings at Harvard saying we
can't do that again. There was a bomb threat I
found out that day later. It wasn't related to the event.
And then that exact same day, this really could be
a seminal moment. And I don't just say this to
pat myself on the back before I went out there
and I was doing preparation. A study was released that
(28:22):
a custom AI tutor at Harvard, I believe 160 students.
It was a physics class. They compared a group. They
split them into two groups, AI tutor versus those in
an actual hands-on in-person learning environment. And those who used
the AI tutor learned twice as much and completed the
tasks in, I think, 49 minutes versus 60 minutes. That
happened the same day that, I mean, the debate wasn't
(28:44):
even close. And I don't say that because I obviously
have a bias. I say it because I said in
my opening statement, I told people exactly what he would
do down to the letter.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
He did it anyway.
Speaker 6 (28:58):
And I finished his phrases for him before he could
finish it himself because I knew exactly what he would say.
And again, it's not that it's just this professor. It's
what you'll find from every professor at Harvard teaching these
same ideas. And I've encountered them time and time again.
I'll tell you this. If one big takeaway... Change my
mind is not debate. Change my mind is kind of
(29:18):
the first street version.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
It's rhetoric.
Speaker 6 (29:21):
And when people sit down, we go all the way
through and we don't edit it. If someone's in bad
faith and going up saying, blah, blah, blah, whatever, I go, okay,
it's time for you to go. But I don't boot
them because I don't think that's fair. So in this case, it's, okay,
we have time. We have a very clearly drawn line.
And I am aiming to make it very clear that
our ideas are better. It is an actual debate. And
(29:41):
it was significantly easier than sitting down for five hours
with all comers because I don't.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Think you, Stephen, real quick.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I mean, and by the way, I'm going to do
to you what I always tell my wife not to
do to me, which is after three hours of live radio.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
She's like, what do you talk about today? I'm like, oh, God, please. Anything.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
But the summation of three hours of radio right after radio.
Can you just give me the, what, what.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Is this guy?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Just history, you know, history of racism, but also we
need to give it to Hispanics for no apparent reason,
but also native Americans. That's why we need DEI because
of the, like the reservations. I mean, what was, was
it just the most kind of a rote basic left-wing
liberalism stuff?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
And what was his POV? And here's the thing.
Speaker 6 (30:24):
He is more reasonable. He is more moderate. But that's
not enough to change the tone at Harvard. It's 95
percent of political donations go to Democrats. You'll find numbers
as high as 99. I always use the conservative numbers.
If you look at commencement speakers at Ivy Leagues in general,
there was a Johnson and Zhang.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Study, 1800 speakers.
Speaker 6 (30:43):
Across 52 schools, Harvard included. It was at least a three,
usually about a seven to one ratio of left to
right for 36 straight years.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
They had a DEI pledge.
Speaker 6 (30:54):
And what I said he would do is the left
will act as though a pause in federal funding. over
teaching discriminatory practices is the same as burning books, and
it's not. He will chalk it up to being, you know,
an organic representation. San Francisco will give you close to 80-20.
There's a DEI pledge. That's a litmus test. And this
man will condemn the practice to be reasonable, but defend
(31:17):
the institution anyway. And that's exactly what he did. There
was no pivot. And this is the best they have
to offer. And a very, very nice guy. And I
have all the respect in the world for him. But
my point is, hey, if a college dropout who people
have said has no business being there in the halls
of academia with the elite can do what we did,
that means that other people out there can, too.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
I hope the kids see this. And anytime someone says, well,
you know what? We should be. We want the intelligent folks.
You know why Barack Obama was president? Let's be honest. Harvard.
Speaker 6 (31:47):
A junior senator with a voting record that was largely
just present. We don't even have his records unsealed. The
only head of the Harvard Law Review who went completely unpublished,
by the way.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
What do they always say? He's really smart. Harvard, you
know what I've always said? He's smart. I don't think
he's that smart. I say the same thing about this professor.
He's smart. He's not as smart as people tell you.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Well, the credentialism factory– Stephen, we could do a whole
show just on this with you because I've seen this
up close and personal in a whole bunch of different ways.
But he went to– no shade at Occidental, but he
was at Occidental before and then suddenly gets into Columbia
and then suddenly gets into Harvard Law School. And the
presidents before him who ran shared their SATs. And then
that became– you weren't allowed to say, well, why can't
(32:30):
we see this president's– presidential candidates' SATs? That was considered racist.
So the point is Harvard has been doing this for
a long time. putting the stamp of intellectual elitism on
people who actually are not in no meaningful way smarter
than the people that they think they should lord over
and rule over so uh we're by the way we're
linking the debate up on the website and uh let's
(32:52):
come back and let's come back and get you to
hang some other time.
Speaker 6 (32:55):
We really appreciate it keep up the good work i
appreciate it thank you very much i appreciate it i
know it's friday so you guys probably want to get
to uh having some, you know, make, make an old
corn cob Friday, go, uh, go have a good old,
good old time with the ladies and tell them no
summaries of the last three hours, just corn cabin.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I'm going to say Steven's orders, honey, you know, Steven's orders,
corn cob pipe smoking.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
All right.
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Speaker 7 (34:22):
Laugh learn hang with the guys right there when you
need them most clay and buck just preset them on
the i heard.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
It welcome back in clay and buck we are rolling
through the friday edition of the program hope all of
you are having a fantastic friday so far uh we'll
take some of your calls in the third hour of
the program we've had a couple of awesome guests steven
crowder just on with us and coulter on with us
as well encourage you to go subscribe to the podcast
especially if you're going to be on the road any
(34:51):
decent amount of time and you just want to be
able to take us with you. We also love the
fact that so many of you are streaming now the
show live on video every single day as well. So
thank you for being a part of this universe here.
And Buck, we got some.
(35:12):
Some interesting takes. We've been talking about how how much
can we treat these polls as legitimate? Harry Enten on
CNN pointed out that the value of September polls, basically
from a Republican perspective, has been nearly nonexistent.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Listen.
Speaker 7 (35:30):
The leads that the Democrats have in all of these
races right now are under how much the GOP outperformed
back in 2024. But what about a midterm election? You
can go back to Donald Trump's first midterm election.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
And it's the same exact story. Look at this.
Speaker 7 (35:45):
The GOP outperformed September polls in the major 2018 statewide
races by six points in Iowa, six points in Ohio,
and eight points in Michigan.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
The bottom line is this.
Speaker 7 (35:56):
Over the last few cycles, whether it be 2018, 2016, 2020, 2024,
Republicans have outperformed their September polls by at least five
points in all these three states where Democrats right now
are ahead, but not by a wide enough margin whereby
if Republicans outperform their September polls again, it could become very,
(36:16):
very interesting.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
This is important, Buck.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Go vote. Go vote. Go vote.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Do not get discouraged by what you are seeing in
the media. Everything has been wrong for basically a decade
or more, and it always runs against the Republican Party.
I'm feeling increasingly optimistic. Get out and vote. Get your
friends and family out voting. When we come back, Charles
Barkley teeing off on Democrats.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
We got it for you.
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