September 2, 2026 • 36 mins
Hour 2 of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show featured an in-depth discussion of government surveillance, public safety technology, constitutional rights, gun ownership trends, crime, self-defense, and the political implications of personal freedom in modern America. The conversation also touched on the 2026 midterm election environment, state-level governance, and reaction to continuing legal and cultural debates that are shaping the national conversation.
A major focus of Hour 2 was the growing controversy surrounding Flock cameras, automated license plate reader technology increasingly used by law enforcement agencies across the country. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton explored both the advantages and concerns associated with the technology, framing it as a legitimate policy debate with reasonable arguments on both sides. The hosts discussed how Flock cameras assist police investigations, track stolen vehicles, and help locate suspects in violent crimes, while also acknowledging concerns about government overreach, privacy rights, data retention, and potential abuse by future administrations. They referenced opposition voiced by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, particularly his concerns that similar technologies could have been exploited during COVID-era lockdowns to monitor citizens’ movements. Throughout the discussion, the hosts repeatedly returned to Fourth Amendment questions involving unreasonable searches and how courts may ultimately define constitutional limits on surveillance technology.
The conversation expanded into a broader examination of privacy in the digital age. Travis argued that smartphones already provide government agencies and technology companies with extensive location data and personal information, often exceeding what Flock cameras collect. Both hosts noted that most Americans are routinely captured on surveillance cameras in public spaces, stores, banks, and businesses, raising questions about where society should draw the line between public safety and individual privacy. They emphasized the importance of legal guardrails and oversight rather than outright bans, while recognizing concerns among conservatives who fear the technology could eventually be used to restrict personal freedoms.
The hosts also discussed the political divide between red states and blue states regarding technology regulation, personal liberties, and government authority. Drawing lessons from the COVID pandemic, Travis argued that Americans increasingly evaluate states based on how they balance personal freedom and government power. Tennessee, Florida, and Texas were highlighted as examples of states where the hosts believe citizens have greater trust in government decision-making compared to heavily Democratic jurisdictions.
Another significant segment centered on crime, public safety, and gun ownership in America. Travis highlighted recent statistics showing record numbers of first-time gun buyers, particularly among women, Black Americans, and Hispanic Americans. The hosts discussed how the motivations for firearm ownership have shifted from hunting and recreation toward personal protection and self-defense. They argued that rising awareness of crime, widespread video evidence of violent incidents shared on social media, and concerns about public safety have influenced many Americans to purchase firearms and obtain concealed carry permits.
The discussion then turned to several high-profile violent crime examples, including a fatal stabbing in Times Square. The hosts used the incident to debate gun-free zones, self-defense rights, police response, and public safety policy. They argued that law-abiding citizens are often unable to immediately protect themselves in jurisdictions with strict firearm restrictions and suggested that legal concealed carry can serve as an important deterrent against violent attackers. The conversation also addressed broader questions about criminal justice, repeat offenders, mental illness, police use of force, and the challenges facing large urban areas.
The hosts further noted how historical support for gun control has evolved in recent years. They pointed to growing firearm ownership among demographics that traditionally have been less likely to own guns, including women and Jewish Americans. Discussion included how events such as civil unrest, rising concerns about public safety, and antisemitic violence have changed attitudes surrounding personal security and Second Amendment rights.
Hour 2 also featured lighter political commentary involving President Donald Trump’s continued use of unconventional political messaging. The hosts joked about recent efforts to rename geographic landmarks, including references to the “Gulf of America,” “Lake America,” and a proposed “Strait of Trump,” viewing such moves as examples of Trump’s enduring ability to dominate public attention
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Second hour of Clay and Buck kicks off now. Everybody,
thank you so much for being here with us. We
have some Senate races in the mix here, which we
want to give you some updates on. And the midterms
are looming large. A topic, Clay, that people have been
asking us to cover. Have we gotten into flock cameras yet?
(00:24):
I think I did a podcast on it, a little
post-show podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I don't think we've talked. Can we talk flock cameras here, actually?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I would like to do this because I think we're
going to have some passionate views on it. And I
think that there are very– this is– it's nice, isn't it?
when you have a discussion or debate about something where
there are pros and cons and reasonable people can disagree,
women can have penises and should play or, and men
(00:54):
should be able to play against women in sports is
not in fact, a reasonable discussion to be having with people.
And because it is not based in reason, you can't
make any progress in the debate of the discussion. As
Clay has found out with his still on claimed unrequited,
unrequited and unclaimed $ 10 million offer, to have the high school.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Did you even go to eighth grade? You naughty man.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Now taking it down to, I could, if I have
to pick an eighth grade team that the eighth grade
boys would beat the WNBA champions, average WNBA team buck
makes $ 7 million for the entire season. That's everybody on
the team combined. I'm offering them 10 million to beat
an eighth grade boys team and crickets.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Uh, That is a debate, though, where you don't have
reasonable stuff going on. You have feelings, dogma, orthodoxy. Flock cameras,
I want to separate that. Flock cameras and data centers,
there's totally reasonable stuff going on when people are like, well,
(02:04):
here are my concerns, here's what's going on.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
It feels like we're having an old.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
School policy discussion where you weren't dealing with race communist lunatics.
who live in some alternate reality. So let's do this, because, Clay,
not only is there a good faith back and forth
over the flock cameras, people.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
On the right, conservatives, disagree. I was surprised, in fact, to.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
See that Governor Ron DeSantis, who we have said extremely,
and I think well-deserved, positive things about on this program
many times over, stretching back to COVID, all the way
to the way he has been governor, uh, of Florida
to today, he is, uh, opposed to flock cameras in
(02:47):
Florida and has signed something that they're going to be
taking them off. I think it's, uh, I want to
get the specifics right, but like state highways or something,
they're going to be limiting it somehow. Um, but here,
here's where I come down on this clay and some
people are going to get mad at me. So this
is why it's, it's probably why I have the long
preamble about good faith debate and the family can disagree.
(03:07):
It ever could still be. I, I, think that whenever
we try to ban or severely restrict the use of
an extremely useful technology, it always ends up just pushing
it for a workaround and it fails in some way.
I see that certainly with the data centers debate, but
(03:29):
to me, that's more of a how we do it debate,
not a do we do it debate. Data centers are happening.
It's just, where do you want them? How do you
want the regulations to be? There's no There's no, oh,
there won't be data centers. Flock cameras feels a little
more like some states are leaning toward. A lot of
people are saying they just don't want these things out there.
(03:50):
I understand the concerns. But to me, the benefits outweigh
the cons. And I'll pass this to you now, Clay.
The benefits outweigh the cons. And the problem, as I
see it, is abuse. And you just need to have
strict rules of the road.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Pardon the expression.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Rules of the road for flock cameras on public highways
and everything else, the usage of that data. Because to me,
that's really the issue. But I got to tell you, Pete,
I think I am, I might get lambasted, lambasted online
for this one because people really do not like these
flock cameras.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
So my take on them, and I love that you
had the preamble, so you're like, now I might be
saying something controversial here, but remember I like you and
you're all very kind. So my take on it is
similar to all technology, which is I want to see
how the interplay of flock cameras is applied by the
(04:49):
courts when it comes to the Fourth Amendment. And I
know that everybody kind of... And sometimes we talk a
lot about the First Amendment and we certainly talk about
a lot about the Second Amendment. And and then we
just had a Supreme Court decision about, hey, the the
equal rights, equal protection clauses that were put in place
(05:11):
after the Civil War. And what's the implication and how
are slaves incorporated compared to others who have come to
our country? All these different things. I think a lot
of times we forget to talk about the fourth. And essentially,
the fourth deals with what is and is not considered
to be an unreasonable search. And the analogy I always
(05:32):
like to use here, Buck, and I may have shared
this on the show before, is when I took crim
law back at Vanderbilt Law School in the day with
a great criminal law professor. He's a legend at Vanderbilt
Law School. He taught generations of lawyers, a guy named
Don Hall. Don Hall said... So much of Fourth Amendment law,
(05:53):
when it comes to how do you apply and determine
what is and is not a constitutional search, has to
do with trying to teach police officers what they can
and can't do in very complex, dynamic situations. And he
would illustrate this for young lawyers this way. He would say,
at some point during your course, he would say, everybody
(06:18):
stand up. and back away from your computer screens. Everybody
in the whole classroom stand up, walk away from your
computer screens, and then he would say, how nervous are
you that I'm going to walk around now and see
what every single one of you is doing on your
computer screen right now? In your opinion, law students, would
(06:42):
that be a fair and constitutional or unreasonable and unconstitutional search?
And it gets people nervous because it puts it actually
into your own world. What are expectations and how are
they being applied here? And so, Buck, I want to
know what governments are doing with the data that they
(07:04):
can get from flat cameras, because I think a lot
of people don't realize that these things that we have
in our hands right now. You are often telling on
yourself way more with your cell phone than you are
with anything they can do from a flock camera. In
other words, they'll do a search. You know this. I
(07:24):
don't think a lot of people know this, Buck. If
they know that a murder happened on X block at
X time, let's say a murder happened at 2 a.m.
on a street corner in Washington, D.C., They can pull,
and it's not a very populated part of the city,
and they know there's not that many people. They can
pull every cell phone that was in that network that
(07:45):
was pinging off that area station, and they can narrow
it automatically down to, hey, if your cell phone was on,
there's only 20 cell phones that were on in this area.
Every time you pull your phone out and turn it on,
giving the government a vast amount of information. So I
don't buy in, Buck, to this idea that a lot
(08:05):
of people have that the flock cameras are in some
way creating a dynamic as it pertains to technology that
does not already exist with your cell phones very often,
if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So DeSantis specifically has cited, and it's like he anticipated...
that people like you and me, and we hadn't discussed
this before, it seems like we're pretty aligned on our
view on this one. DeSantis referenced how this would have
been used during COVID against people. So he's getting right
into my wheelhouse and your wheelhouse right away. This would
(08:40):
have been used to see if people were traveling who
weren't supposed to, and maybe it would have been used
to lock down. I think that that first of all,
that gets my attention. And I think that that's valid.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I'm not I'm not.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Dismissing this or saying I don't have a concern with that, too.
But to me, that again goes into this is the
abuse of a technology, not the day to day frontline
use of that technology. There's something that is different about that.
And and so to me, The guardrails are very important
(09:13):
to have with this because, remember, this is about knowing
where your car is. I mean, they're tracking your car
via license plate in real time everywhere you go, and
then that data is stored for a period of time.
Some places, Clay, have limited, for example, how long that
information is stored. Some places are making changes about this.
(09:34):
I think that that's all valid and good. But to me,
a ban on flock cameras, I mean, I'll put it
to you this way. What I want to be the
mayor of– well, it's really the county commissioners that kind
of run Miami-Dade. But what I want to be the–
let's just say the head honcho of Miami-Dade County who
signed off on something that, let's say, banned flock cameras
(09:55):
within city limits. And then I have to explain to
some mother whose four-year-old was kidnapped. Yeah, that's what I.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Would think, too.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I wouldn't want to be in that. Oh, because people
are concerned about government overreach. I'm concerned about government overreach.
But what are we really talking about here? This is
the movement of your vehicle on public roads.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
There's video cameras. This would be like saying, I don't
think we should have video cameras in public. By the way,
same thing. Video cameras are picking you up.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
If you're in any populated area, they're picking you up
dozens of times a day.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Watching what you do.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
That's what I was going to go to secondarily, which
is the most important part, I think. You're already on
camera everywhere.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
All the time. All the time.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
And so this idea, what you hit on, I think,
is important. You know, we had that shooting outside of
the high school football game that I went to, and
nobody knows who did it. The 16-year-old who was murdered,
so far, nobody has been able to be captured. If
you can have cameras that are constantly turned on in
high crime venues, to me, that's a no-brainer. And I
(11:11):
would like to drive down violent crime everywhere. And you
and I are a little bit unique, I think, because
of what we do. I already presume that as soon
as I leave my house, there is someone paying attention
to something that I'm doing all day long, every day.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
You actually have not just the expectation of no privacy
in public. I operate the same way. I have the
expectation of invasion of privacy in public.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Everything I do is public at all times the moment
that I leave my home. Look, I think a lot
of people are not aware what you just said, Buck.
Every time you go to the grocery store, you're on camera.
Every time you go to Walmart, you're on camera. Every
time you go to the bank, you're on camera. I
don't think most people realize how easily it is to
(11:58):
track what you are doing. I'm not committing any crimes.
And so I am not worried about this. Now, I
also understand the people out there who say, OK, Clay,
you saw what happened during covid. I think the best
argument against them is actually what Ron DeSantis, governor of Florida, said,
which is at some point in time, they will track
(12:20):
you over this if we have another pandemic. That's why
I live in Tennessee. I don't think I was with
Marsha Blackburn this morning. She's going to be the next
governor of Tennessee. I don't think she's going to do
that here. I think if you're in a blue state,
I would be concerned about all of my freedoms in
a blue state, and that's why I live in a
red state. But flock, if I lived in New York City,
(12:44):
flock cameras to me would be 763rd most important thing
that I'm worried about in New York City right now
with Mom Donnie as mayor. It wouldn't even be in
my top echelon because I think in general in New
York City, they would be used to typically catch people
who are committing violent crimes. And I think we need
(13:04):
to catch more people committing violent crimes, not less. And
I want to give police the authority. That's where the
Fourth Amendment comes in to make sure that the searches
that are occurring are reasonable and not unreasonable. And that's
why my start is I still want to see how
this is applied within the context of the overall court.
and Fourth Amendment rights.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
You were a high school debate nerd, too, right? Weren't
you on the debate team?
Speaker 3 (13:30):
No, I did not. My son was one of the
best high school debaters in the country. Shout out. He
just finished high school debate, top eight, I think, in
the nation. But he did it obsessively, so I'm familiar
with it through him. What's the style that he did?
I did Lincoln-Douglas. That was the big one when I
was in high school in New York. You did Lincoln-Douglas
or extemp, extemporaneous speaking, Yeah, he did. He did the
(13:52):
one where you talk super fast. And I think it's
policy policy. Douglas is the other. So he did policy.
Lincoln Douglas. This reminds me of this is this would
be an excellent resolution for a high level debate. I agree.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Douglas High School debate, you know, showdown. So because like
I said, there really is. I understand when DeSantis said
the covid stuff, I was like, I could already envision
the whole thing. They are tracking you. How much are
you driving? Why are you in your car? I get
all that. So there are certainly things to be addressed
with this.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Mr.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
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Welcome back in, Clay and Buck. My apologies, I was
(16:17):
excited to jump in. Buck, you were just sharing with
me during the commercial break, President Trump continues to rename
different areas of the map, and the latest is in
the Middle East, and we now have the.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Straight of Trump, instead of the Straight of Hormuz.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Saying that he is in complete control of everything. And
I do think that that is going to be interesting
to see how all of it continues to play out.
But what a.
It's kind of amazing. I didn't think people... I expected
(16:56):
that some places would rename the Gulf of America. I
am surprised that several of the maps have now renamed
the Lake Ontario as Lake America and that they've gone
ahead and changed it on the map. I still think
one of our caller suggestions of Lake Dolly would have
been a masterstroke by Trump because I think if he
(17:17):
had renamed the lake after Dolly Parton, it would have
been hard for people to fight back very aggressively against it.
But the Lake of America, now we have the Strait
of Trump. I, straight of Trump, I feel like they're
not going to accept this in Tehran.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
I'm just going to go out on a limb here
and tell you the bullets. And I'm like, change all
the maps. I don't think that's going to happen. I
think they're going to keep calling it the straight of Hormuz.
So we shall see. But he hasn't lost a step
when it comes to trolling.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
That is for sure. And we will get into.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
More of that and more of everything. here on the
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(18:58):
back in here to Clay and Buck. Okay, we have
DeSantis here, audio of him, I should say, talking about
flock cameras.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Play the audio, guys.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
Flock.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
And look, a lot of our law enforcement that have
used it at the local and county level, you know,
I think are using it to focus on criminal. I
don't think it's their intent to do general surveillance. But
I will tell you, if we had all this around
the country when COVID happened, you absolutely would have saw
those turned on people who were outside of lockdown orders
(19:33):
in California and that were, oh, you didn't take your vax,
you can't go here, you can't travel. I mean, you
had a majority of Democrats that thought people that didn't
take the MNRA COVID shot should be detained by law
enforcement authorities, not allowed to go. to shores, like really,
really crazy stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Clay, that hits home. I get it. And I respect that.
And he's right to raise it as an issue.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
But I also feel like you're looking at something and saying, well,
what about when the bad people do the bad things
with it? It reminds me a little bit of why
they're saying you ban guns or something. It's like, well,
think of all the bad things that happen with people
having firearms. Okay, but that doesn't mean all the good
people shouldn't have guns. And in this case, taking that
(20:26):
tool away from law enforcement, to your point also, they
can track your phone. So they should just have the
same standard. They should have similar standards. I have to
look at what it is in different places for phone
triangulation tracking and for tracking your car down.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
For much of this, the fact that he used COVID
as an example is, I think, a good one. I
think increasingly in a high-tech world, the state you choose
to call home is going to dictate a great deal
when it comes to the personal freedoms that you have.
And I trust... red states it's why i mean i
(21:07):
i'm not just paying lip service to this every company
that i own a substantial stake in or that i
own is based in tennessee florida or texas all of
my personal assets are in red states all of my
banking companies are based in red states right now After COVID,
(21:29):
I don't trust blue states, and I certainly don't trust
blue cities inside of blue states. Buck, you mentioned guns.
I flagged this because I thought it was super interesting.
We don't hear anything about guns anymore. It really when
it comes to trying to restrict guns, everything else, there's
(21:49):
actually an opinion piece yesterday in The New York Times.
And the headline is something has changed about the U.S.
and guns. And I was flagging this because I thought, hey,
we should mention this on air because I do think
it's significant. We're going to hit an all time record
low in murders this year. All time record low. Never
(22:09):
in any of the lives of people listening right now
has there been a lower murder rate. Never has there
been more guns on the street than are on the
street right now. Remember, for a long time, the argument
on the left was that guns kill people.
Speaker 7 (22:27):
Right.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
They would not focus on the individuals. And suddenly the
rhetoric has changed. Buck, here is something that I flagged.
And I'm gonna be honest with you. My wife is
in this group. Between 2021 and 2024, 11.2 million Americans
bought a gun for the first time. These numbers kind
(22:48):
of floored me, Buck. I don't know if you've heard these.
Half of those buyers were women. That's a record scratch.
My wife is in this group. A fifth were black,
and another fifth were Hispanic. And the overall reason why
people have owned guns is now... for personal protection so
(23:11):
it used to be the average gun owner said i
have a gun because for hunting reasons things like that
now overwhelmingly.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
That's what the media said people actually had guns as
a defense against tyranny but yes people had them for
hunting too.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
But but the data according to this and the data
could be wrong um is that the uh up until
the late 90s People bought guns primarily for hunting or
for sport. This is what the article says. In 2023, however,
the most recent year for which statistics are available, more
than 70 percent of gun owners said the major reason
(23:46):
for their owning a gun was protection. So I do
think that that represents a substantial growth. And I think
a lot of people out there are surprised. Half of
all gun buyers now are women. Buck, I know a
lot of women who are carrying guns in their purses,
in their personal body on a regular basis. That was
not the case 20 years ago in a substantial way,
(24:08):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
So I'll tell you, I.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Think that people have seen for a while now, certainly
the BLM riots come to mind, but they've seen the
reality of relying on law enforcement for your personal protection
which is cops do a great job overwhelmingly i'm not
putting i'm not attacking law enforcement at all you know
we're big law enforcement supporters here but even a cop
(24:34):
will tell you even a your local sheriff will tell
you that they can't be ever at all times and
ultimately your safety is in your hands and with the
proliferation i think clay of videos showing uh violent assault
incidents all over social media notably on x It used
to be that the media had this thing of we're
(24:55):
going to not show a lot of this and we're
going to not talk about it because we don't want
people to get the wrong idea about who's doing it.
That was a thing for a long time. Now you
can just see a lot of the assaults and all
the things that happened, including there's video. I think it's
body camera footage, although there's also handheld cell phone footage
of a terrible incident that just happened.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
It was a murder.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
It just happened in Times Square.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
And I was actually going through New York at that time,
visiting my family, and not far from where the stabbing happened,
broad daylight, Times Square, some truly lunatic, I mean, just
a devious maniac, with two knives. And I would note also,
for anybody who thinks that a knife is not enough,
(25:41):
this woman was small, pudgy, and weak-looking, and she was
able to stab one guy in the gut, get away
from him, and within about 20 seconds, she stabbed a female,
a beautiful young woman, just celebrated two years of marriage, has,
I think, an eight-month-old baby at home, stabbed her to death,
(26:02):
no reason, just ran up to her with knives and
stabbed her to death. If somebody gets a clear shot
on you with a kitchen knife, it's pretty much game over.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Very likely, if.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
They get you in a vital place, you're going to die.
And so the cops then killed the woman who did
the murder because she ran at them with knives. And then,
sure enough, you had the, oh, but couldn't the cop–
they tried to tase her first.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Didn't work. So even with that, they're going, do they
really have to shoot her?
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
We did not have to wait and see if another
person was killed by this vicious lunatic. In broad daylight,
in Times Square, in the largest city in America, Clay,
I talk about all this, one, because it's an incident
that people should be aware of, but also.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Times Square is a gun-free zone.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
Explicitly a gun-free zone, meaning that no person there, unless
they are willing to risk years in prison, the only
people allowed to be in Times Square with a firearm
are police.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
You know, I'm going to tell you this right now.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
If this sort of thing happens in Miami, I know
that I am likely carrying, my brother is carrying, most
of my friends carry.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
It's a different situation.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
If we see some maniac running around with a knife,
that maniac's getting dropped by one of us. It is
a different world now. People understand because they can see
the truth of protecting themselves and the reality. Yeah, law
enforcement can show up when people have already been murdered.
There's blood everywhere. And maybe they finish off the shooter
or the stabber.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
A couple of things. The guy, I believe it was
in Idaho, who started shooting when the guy was at
the fast food restaurant.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (27:50):
And.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Was able to hopefully make that a much less successful attack.
I would add in the wake of the Lindsay Clancy
discussion for all the women out there saying she's stressed,
her hormones are out of whack. Should the woman in
Times Square who was walking around with a knife who
stabbed that young mom to death? Should she be charged
(28:10):
with first-degree murder and go away for the rest of
her life even though she might be crazy? Yes. My
answer is yes. Again, are you being consistent in the
way that you're applying the law? She's dead, but you
would have charged her with first-degree murder.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
The cops shot her. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 7 (28:25):
Sorry.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah. I'm glad the cops.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Lit her up. By the way, I'm glad the cops
shot her, by the way, if you're running around with
a knife.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
People were saying they objected to that.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Oh, I remember. I saw it.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
And I sit here and I go– But there's something...
I don't.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Know if the elevator doesn't go to the top floor
with a lot of these people online. I don't know
if they just can't process this. A person with a
knife who is running at you, who refuses commands to stop,
can easily kill you.
Speaker 7 (28:56):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
And this person had just killed somebody. Completely innocent person.
Let me add this one more detail, by the way,
on the guns. I bet the percentage of Jewish people...
with guns has skyrocketed in the last two and a
half years because the article was written from the perspective,
my father looks like the last guy who'd ever won
(29:19):
a gun. This is in the New York Times, by
the way. He's Jewish, an immigrant, a politically liberal city dweller.
He didn't grow up around guns. He believed America needed
stricter gun control laws. But during BLM, he suddenly said,
I got to get myself a gun. And in the
wake of what happened on October 7th, There's a lot
(29:39):
of Jewish. moms out there. I guarantee you and dads
who never know when your synagogue might be attacked. We
know specifically people who have made this choice themselves that
you have trained. Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
I would say the joke among my neighbors is that
Buck has trained more people than the IDF in the
last couple of years. Like I've been taking a lot
of Jewish friends in South Florida out for their first
time at the range. You know, that's something that I
can certainly handle the instruction on. And I'm actually an
NRA pistol instructor, so I can take people out there or,
you know, NRA certified. So I can take people out
(30:11):
there and and have give them a kind of one
on one pistol day. And I find it, one, very gratifying,
and they certainly do, too. And a lot of them
have gone out, and they now conceal carry. They have
firearms in the home. And it just makes people, one,
take into their own hands their safety and security. And
(30:31):
I think, two, it just raises their awareness as well
that stuff happens. Nobody would have thought, you know, Clay,
I'm two degrees removed from– meaning I know someone who
knew the woman– who worked for Blackstone, which is a
very well-known private equity firm. She was a young executive there,
(30:53):
a woman. And she was shot by that maniac who
just ran into the lobby. I forget when this was,
maybe a year ago. Do you remember this? It was
right on Park Avenue in Manhattan, kind of down in
the 50s. Ran into the lobby and just started shooting people.
And actually shot the cop. There was an off-duty cop
who was there that the guy shot first. And then
he just went around and he had to go, nobody
(31:14):
else can help you. If there's not a cop there
and somebody has a gun or a knife in New York,
that's the reality. You're on your own. And by the way,
they disarm you. That's the point about Clay, the gun-free zone.
There are still shootings in Times Square, just not of
law-abiding citizens defending themselves. Well done, New York. Well done,
(31:35):
Mom Donnie. They disarm the law-abiding.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Just think about that. That mom is walking in Times
Square in the middle part of the day and gets
stabbed to death. I guarantee you the data is going
to come out, Buck. What are the odds that the
woman who's now dead, who did that stabbing, that is
the killer, what are the odds that's the first time
she's ever committed a violent criminal offense? I bet zero.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Very, very.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
I mean, that she's not, yeah, has a long history
of shouldn't have been on the street.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I think it's very unlikely. Sure enough.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
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Speaker 7 (33:25):
Laugh.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Learn.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Hang with the guys.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Right there when you need them most. Clay and Buck.
Just preset them on the iHeart app. Welcome back in,
Clay and Buck. We appreciate all of you hanging out
with us. Guess what? Do you have a mortgage that
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Jeff in North Carolina. Let's start with you, Jeff. What
you got for us?
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Guys, I'm wondering if this thing plays out to where
she's found guilty by reason of insanity because in just
a few short months, mental hospital, she gets out. If
she's approached by whoever for, say, a book deal or
a movie deal or something like that, does her ex-husband
have a right to sue her to stop that or
(34:52):
either to stop any monetary gain that she might?
Speaker 2 (34:56):
She has.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Yeah, thanks for the call. She has a First Amendment
right to be able to publish her story and be
paid for it. In theory, the children could file a
wrongful death claim against their mother, their estate's But then
they're minors, so effectively I presume the father would be
(35:16):
the beneficiary there, but he's divorced from her, and in
some way he is suing his spouse. the answer is yes. Um,
would he do it? I don't know. We got into
this some buck with OJ Simpson. For those of you
who remember when he was found liable civilly, she doesn't
have any kind of substantial assets to my knowledge. In theory, OJ,
(35:41):
I believe had to sell like the Heisman trophy. He
had to sell a lot of his personal belongings, but
you couldn't touch his pension, uh, from the NFL. Usually
pensions are protected. Certain States have so-called, um, you know,
like home is a castle sort of protections where no
matter what your home is worth, for instance, in Florida,
it is unassailable from a creditor perspective. There's a lot
(36:04):
of different ways that that can play out. The end
result is the dollars are not hugely substantial. I do
think you raise an interesting question with the GoFundMe. Reportedly,
she has gotten around a million dollars. I don't know
what her lawyer situation is, how she's paying. That's an
interesting question. Ali in South Dakota, you got 30 seconds.
Speaker 7 (36:26):
Hey, guys, I love your show. I got to get
a photo with Clay at Mount Rushmore on July 3rd,
and it was the highlight of my summer. I just
want to go back to AOC really quick. I am
genuinely rooting for her to get the Democratic nomination because
an AOC debate against J.D. Vance or Marco Rubio, the
absolute must-see TV.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
I agree with Allie there. I'm glad she has great taste.
I had a phenomenal time at Mount Rushmore. Met a
lot of our listeners there.
Second hour of Clay and Buck kicks off now. Everybody,
thank you so much for being here with us. We
have some Senate races in the mix here, which we
want to give you some updates on. And the midterms
are looming large. A topic, Clay, that people have been
asking us to cover. Have we gotten into flock cameras yet?
(00:24):
I think I did a podcast on it, a little
post-show podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I don't think we've talked. Can we talk flock cameras here, actually?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I would like to do this because I think we're
going to have some passionate views on it. And I
think that there are very– this is– it's nice, isn't it?
when you have a discussion or debate about something where
there are pros and cons and reasonable people can disagree,
women can have penises and should play or, and men
(00:54):
should be able to play against women in sports is
not in fact, a reasonable discussion to be having with people.
And because it is not based in reason, you can't
make any progress in the debate of the discussion. As
Clay has found out with his still on claimed unrequited,
unrequited and unclaimed $ 10 million offer, to have the high school.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Did you even go to eighth grade? You naughty man.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Now taking it down to, I could, if I have
to pick an eighth grade team that the eighth grade
boys would beat the WNBA champions, average WNBA team buck
makes $ 7 million for the entire season. That's everybody on
the team combined. I'm offering them 10 million to beat
an eighth grade boys team and crickets.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Uh, That is a debate, though, where you don't have
reasonable stuff going on. You have feelings, dogma, orthodoxy. Flock cameras,
I want to separate that. Flock cameras and data centers,
there's totally reasonable stuff going on when people are like, well,
(02:04):
here are my concerns, here's what's going on.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
It feels like we're having an old.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
School policy discussion where you weren't dealing with race communist lunatics.
who live in some alternate reality. So let's do this, because, Clay,
not only is there a good faith back and forth
over the flock cameras, people.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
On the right, conservatives, disagree. I was surprised, in fact, to.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
See that Governor Ron DeSantis, who we have said extremely,
and I think well-deserved, positive things about on this program
many times over, stretching back to COVID, all the way
to the way he has been governor, uh, of Florida
to today, he is, uh, opposed to flock cameras in
(02:47):
Florida and has signed something that they're going to be
taking them off. I think it's, uh, I want to
get the specifics right, but like state highways or something,
they're going to be limiting it somehow. Um, but here,
here's where I come down on this clay and some
people are going to get mad at me. So this
is why it's, it's probably why I have the long
preamble about good faith debate and the family can disagree.
(03:07):
It ever could still be. I, I, think that whenever
we try to ban or severely restrict the use of
an extremely useful technology, it always ends up just pushing
it for a workaround and it fails in some way.
I see that certainly with the data centers debate, but
(03:29):
to me, that's more of a how we do it debate,
not a do we do it debate. Data centers are happening.
It's just, where do you want them? How do you
want the regulations to be? There's no There's no, oh,
there won't be data centers. Flock cameras feels a little
more like some states are leaning toward. A lot of
people are saying they just don't want these things out there.
(03:50):
I understand the concerns. But to me, the benefits outweigh
the cons. And I'll pass this to you now, Clay.
The benefits outweigh the cons. And the problem, as I
see it, is abuse. And you just need to have
strict rules of the road.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Pardon the expression.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Rules of the road for flock cameras on public highways
and everything else, the usage of that data. Because to me,
that's really the issue. But I got to tell you, Pete,
I think I am, I might get lambasted, lambasted online
for this one because people really do not like these
flock cameras.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
So my take on them, and I love that you
had the preamble, so you're like, now I might be
saying something controversial here, but remember I like you and
you're all very kind. So my take on it is
similar to all technology, which is I want to see
how the interplay of flock cameras is applied by the
(04:49):
courts when it comes to the Fourth Amendment. And I
know that everybody kind of... And sometimes we talk a
lot about the First Amendment and we certainly talk about
a lot about the Second Amendment. And and then we
just had a Supreme Court decision about, hey, the the
equal rights, equal protection clauses that were put in place
(05:11):
after the Civil War. And what's the implication and how
are slaves incorporated compared to others who have come to
our country? All these different things. I think a lot
of times we forget to talk about the fourth. And essentially,
the fourth deals with what is and is not considered
to be an unreasonable search. And the analogy I always
(05:32):
like to use here, Buck, and I may have shared
this on the show before, is when I took crim
law back at Vanderbilt Law School in the day with
a great criminal law professor. He's a legend at Vanderbilt
Law School. He taught generations of lawyers, a guy named
Don Hall. Don Hall said... So much of Fourth Amendment law,
(05:53):
when it comes to how do you apply and determine
what is and is not a constitutional search, has to
do with trying to teach police officers what they can
and can't do in very complex, dynamic situations. And he
would illustrate this for young lawyers this way. He would say,
at some point during your course, he would say, everybody
(06:18):
stand up. and back away from your computer screens. Everybody
in the whole classroom stand up, walk away from your
computer screens, and then he would say, how nervous are
you that I'm going to walk around now and see
what every single one of you is doing on your
computer screen right now? In your opinion, law students, would
(06:42):
that be a fair and constitutional or unreasonable and unconstitutional search?
And it gets people nervous because it puts it actually
into your own world. What are expectations and how are
they being applied here? And so, Buck, I want to
know what governments are doing with the data that they
(07:04):
can get from flat cameras, because I think a lot
of people don't realize that these things that we have
in our hands right now. You are often telling on
yourself way more with your cell phone than you are
with anything they can do from a flock camera. In
other words, they'll do a search. You know this. I
(07:24):
don't think a lot of people know this, Buck. If
they know that a murder happened on X block at
X time, let's say a murder happened at 2 a.m.
on a street corner in Washington, D.C., They can pull,
and it's not a very populated part of the city,
and they know there's not that many people. They can
pull every cell phone that was in that network that
(07:45):
was pinging off that area station, and they can narrow
it automatically down to, hey, if your cell phone was on,
there's only 20 cell phones that were on in this area.
Every time you pull your phone out and turn it on,
giving the government a vast amount of information. So I
don't buy in, Buck, to this idea that a lot
(08:05):
of people have that the flock cameras are in some
way creating a dynamic as it pertains to technology that
does not already exist with your cell phones very often,
if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So DeSantis specifically has cited, and it's like he anticipated...
that people like you and me, and we hadn't discussed
this before, it seems like we're pretty aligned on our
view on this one. DeSantis referenced how this would have
been used during COVID against people. So he's getting right
into my wheelhouse and your wheelhouse right away. This would
(08:40):
have been used to see if people were traveling who
weren't supposed to, and maybe it would have been used
to lock down. I think that that first of all,
that gets my attention. And I think that that's valid.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I'm not I'm not.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Dismissing this or saying I don't have a concern with that, too.
But to me, that again goes into this is the
abuse of a technology, not the day to day frontline
use of that technology. There's something that is different about that.
And and so to me, The guardrails are very important
(09:13):
to have with this because, remember, this is about knowing
where your car is. I mean, they're tracking your car
via license plate in real time everywhere you go, and
then that data is stored for a period of time.
Some places, Clay, have limited, for example, how long that
information is stored. Some places are making changes about this.
(09:34):
I think that that's all valid and good. But to me,
a ban on flock cameras, I mean, I'll put it
to you this way. What I want to be the
mayor of– well, it's really the county commissioners that kind
of run Miami-Dade. But what I want to be the–
let's just say the head honcho of Miami-Dade County who
signed off on something that, let's say, banned flock cameras
(09:55):
within city limits. And then I have to explain to
some mother whose four-year-old was kidnapped. Yeah, that's what I.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Would think, too.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I wouldn't want to be in that. Oh, because people
are concerned about government overreach. I'm concerned about government overreach.
But what are we really talking about here? This is
the movement of your vehicle on public roads.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
There's video cameras. This would be like saying, I don't
think we should have video cameras in public. By the way,
same thing. Video cameras are picking you up.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
If you're in any populated area, they're picking you up
dozens of times a day.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Watching what you do.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
That's what I was going to go to secondarily, which
is the most important part, I think. You're already on
camera everywhere.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
All the time. All the time.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
And so this idea, what you hit on, I think,
is important. You know, we had that shooting outside of
the high school football game that I went to, and
nobody knows who did it. The 16-year-old who was murdered,
so far, nobody has been able to be captured. If
you can have cameras that are constantly turned on in
high crime venues, to me, that's a no-brainer. And I
(11:11):
would like to drive down violent crime everywhere. And you
and I are a little bit unique, I think, because
of what we do. I already presume that as soon
as I leave my house, there is someone paying attention
to something that I'm doing all day long, every day.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
You actually have not just the expectation of no privacy
in public. I operate the same way. I have the
expectation of invasion of privacy in public.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Everything I do is public at all times the moment
that I leave my home. Look, I think a lot
of people are not aware what you just said, Buck.
Every time you go to the grocery store, you're on camera.
Every time you go to Walmart, you're on camera. Every
time you go to the bank, you're on camera. I
don't think most people realize how easily it is to
(11:58):
track what you are doing. I'm not committing any crimes.
And so I am not worried about this. Now, I
also understand the people out there who say, OK, Clay,
you saw what happened during covid. I think the best
argument against them is actually what Ron DeSantis, governor of Florida, said,
which is at some point in time, they will track
(12:20):
you over this if we have another pandemic. That's why
I live in Tennessee. I don't think I was with
Marsha Blackburn this morning. She's going to be the next
governor of Tennessee. I don't think she's going to do
that here. I think if you're in a blue state,
I would be concerned about all of my freedoms in
a blue state, and that's why I live in a
red state. But flock, if I lived in New York City,
(12:44):
flock cameras to me would be 763rd most important thing
that I'm worried about in New York City right now
with Mom Donnie as mayor. It wouldn't even be in
my top echelon because I think in general in New
York City, they would be used to typically catch people
who are committing violent crimes. And I think we need
(13:04):
to catch more people committing violent crimes, not less. And
I want to give police the authority. That's where the
Fourth Amendment comes in to make sure that the searches
that are occurring are reasonable and not unreasonable. And that's
why my start is I still want to see how
this is applied within the context of the overall court.
and Fourth Amendment rights.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
You were a high school debate nerd, too, right? Weren't
you on the debate team?
Speaker 3 (13:30):
No, I did not. My son was one of the
best high school debaters in the country. Shout out. He
just finished high school debate, top eight, I think, in
the nation. But he did it obsessively, so I'm familiar
with it through him. What's the style that he did?
I did Lincoln-Douglas. That was the big one when I
was in high school in New York. You did Lincoln-Douglas
or extemp, extemporaneous speaking, Yeah, he did. He did the
(13:52):
one where you talk super fast. And I think it's
policy policy. Douglas is the other. So he did policy.
Lincoln Douglas. This reminds me of this is this would
be an excellent resolution for a high level debate. I agree.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Douglas High School debate, you know, showdown. So because like
I said, there really is. I understand when DeSantis said
the covid stuff, I was like, I could already envision
the whole thing. They are tracking you. How much are
you driving? Why are you in your car? I get
all that. So there are certainly things to be addressed
with this.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Mr.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
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(14:46):
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sense to family and friends. Clay and Buck, owning the airwaves.
Welcome back in, Clay and Buck. My apologies, I was
(16:17):
excited to jump in. Buck, you were just sharing with
me during the commercial break, President Trump continues to rename
different areas of the map, and the latest is in
the Middle East, and we now have the.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Straight of Trump, instead of the Straight of Hormuz.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Saying that he is in complete control of everything. And
I do think that that is going to be interesting
to see how all of it continues to play out.
But what a.
It's kind of amazing. I didn't think people... I expected
(16:56):
that some places would rename the Gulf of America. I
am surprised that several of the maps have now renamed
the Lake Ontario as Lake America and that they've gone
ahead and changed it on the map. I still think
one of our caller suggestions of Lake Dolly would have
been a masterstroke by Trump because I think if he
(17:17):
had renamed the lake after Dolly Parton, it would have
been hard for people to fight back very aggressively against it.
But the Lake of America, now we have the Strait
of Trump. I, straight of Trump, I feel like they're
not going to accept this in Tehran.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
I'm just going to go out on a limb here
and tell you the bullets. And I'm like, change all
the maps. I don't think that's going to happen. I
think they're going to keep calling it the straight of Hormuz.
So we shall see. But he hasn't lost a step
when it comes to trolling.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
That is for sure. And we will get into.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
More of that and more of everything. here on the
fantastic Clay and Buck show. And Clay, why don't we
get into the next read for Buck, which is going
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(18:58):
back in here to Clay and Buck. Okay, we have
DeSantis here, audio of him, I should say, talking about
flock cameras.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Play the audio, guys.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
Flock.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
And look, a lot of our law enforcement that have
used it at the local and county level, you know,
I think are using it to focus on criminal. I
don't think it's their intent to do general surveillance. But
I will tell you, if we had all this around
the country when COVID happened, you absolutely would have saw
those turned on people who were outside of lockdown orders
(19:33):
in California and that were, oh, you didn't take your vax,
you can't go here, you can't travel. I mean, you
had a majority of Democrats that thought people that didn't
take the MNRA COVID shot should be detained by law
enforcement authorities, not allowed to go. to shores, like really,
really crazy stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Clay, that hits home. I get it. And I respect that.
And he's right to raise it as an issue.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
But I also feel like you're looking at something and saying, well,
what about when the bad people do the bad things
with it? It reminds me a little bit of why
they're saying you ban guns or something. It's like, well,
think of all the bad things that happen with people
having firearms. Okay, but that doesn't mean all the good
people shouldn't have guns. And in this case, taking that
(20:26):
tool away from law enforcement, to your point also, they
can track your phone. So they should just have the
same standard. They should have similar standards. I have to
look at what it is in different places for phone
triangulation tracking and for tracking your car down.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
For much of this, the fact that he used COVID
as an example is, I think, a good one. I
think increasingly in a high-tech world, the state you choose
to call home is going to dictate a great deal
when it comes to the personal freedoms that you have.
And I trust... red states it's why i mean i
(21:07):
i'm not just paying lip service to this every company
that i own a substantial stake in or that i
own is based in tennessee florida or texas all of
my personal assets are in red states all of my
banking companies are based in red states right now After COVID,
(21:29):
I don't trust blue states, and I certainly don't trust
blue cities inside of blue states. Buck, you mentioned guns.
I flagged this because I thought it was super interesting.
We don't hear anything about guns anymore. It really when
it comes to trying to restrict guns, everything else, there's
(21:49):
actually an opinion piece yesterday in The New York Times.
And the headline is something has changed about the U.S.
and guns. And I was flagging this because I thought, hey,
we should mention this on air because I do think
it's significant. We're going to hit an all time record
low in murders this year. All time record low. Never
(22:09):
in any of the lives of people listening right now
has there been a lower murder rate. Never has there
been more guns on the street than are on the
street right now. Remember, for a long time, the argument
on the left was that guns kill people.
Speaker 7 (22:27):
Right.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
They would not focus on the individuals. And suddenly the
rhetoric has changed. Buck, here is something that I flagged.
And I'm gonna be honest with you. My wife is
in this group. Between 2021 and 2024, 11.2 million Americans
bought a gun for the first time. These numbers kind
(22:48):
of floored me, Buck. I don't know if you've heard these.
Half of those buyers were women. That's a record scratch.
My wife is in this group. A fifth were black,
and another fifth were Hispanic. And the overall reason why
people have owned guns is now... for personal protection so
(23:11):
it used to be the average gun owner said i
have a gun because for hunting reasons things like that
now overwhelmingly.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
That's what the media said people actually had guns as
a defense against tyranny but yes people had them for
hunting too.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
But but the data according to this and the data
could be wrong um is that the uh up until
the late 90s People bought guns primarily for hunting or
for sport. This is what the article says. In 2023, however,
the most recent year for which statistics are available, more
than 70 percent of gun owners said the major reason
(23:46):
for their owning a gun was protection. So I do
think that that represents a substantial growth. And I think
a lot of people out there are surprised. Half of
all gun buyers now are women. Buck, I know a
lot of women who are carrying guns in their purses,
in their personal body on a regular basis. That was
not the case 20 years ago in a substantial way,
(24:08):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
So I'll tell you, I.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Think that people have seen for a while now, certainly
the BLM riots come to mind, but they've seen the
reality of relying on law enforcement for your personal protection
which is cops do a great job overwhelmingly i'm not
putting i'm not attacking law enforcement at all you know
we're big law enforcement supporters here but even a cop
(24:34):
will tell you even a your local sheriff will tell
you that they can't be ever at all times and
ultimately your safety is in your hands and with the
proliferation i think clay of videos showing uh violent assault
incidents all over social media notably on x It used
to be that the media had this thing of we're
(24:55):
going to not show a lot of this and we're
going to not talk about it because we don't want
people to get the wrong idea about who's doing it.
That was a thing for a long time. Now you
can just see a lot of the assaults and all
the things that happened, including there's video. I think it's
body camera footage, although there's also handheld cell phone footage
of a terrible incident that just happened.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
It was a murder.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
It just happened in Times Square.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
And I was actually going through New York at that time,
visiting my family, and not far from where the stabbing happened,
broad daylight, Times Square, some truly lunatic, I mean, just
a devious maniac, with two knives. And I would note also,
for anybody who thinks that a knife is not enough,
(25:41):
this woman was small, pudgy, and weak-looking, and she was
able to stab one guy in the gut, get away
from him, and within about 20 seconds, she stabbed a female,
a beautiful young woman, just celebrated two years of marriage, has,
I think, an eight-month-old baby at home, stabbed her to death,
(26:02):
no reason, just ran up to her with knives and
stabbed her to death. If somebody gets a clear shot
on you with a kitchen knife, it's pretty much game over.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Very likely, if.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
They get you in a vital place, you're going to die.
And so the cops then killed the woman who did
the murder because she ran at them with knives. And then,
sure enough, you had the, oh, but couldn't the cop–
they tried to tase her first.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Didn't work. So even with that, they're going, do they
really have to shoot her?
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
We did not have to wait and see if another
person was killed by this vicious lunatic. In broad daylight,
in Times Square, in the largest city in America, Clay,
I talk about all this, one, because it's an incident
that people should be aware of, but also.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Times Square is a gun-free zone.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
Explicitly a gun-free zone, meaning that no person there, unless
they are willing to risk years in prison, the only
people allowed to be in Times Square with a firearm
are police.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
You know, I'm going to tell you this right now.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
If this sort of thing happens in Miami, I know
that I am likely carrying, my brother is carrying, most
of my friends carry.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
It's a different situation.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
If we see some maniac running around with a knife,
that maniac's getting dropped by one of us. It is
a different world now. People understand because they can see
the truth of protecting themselves and the reality. Yeah, law
enforcement can show up when people have already been murdered.
There's blood everywhere. And maybe they finish off the shooter
or the stabber.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
A couple of things. The guy, I believe it was
in Idaho, who started shooting when the guy was at
the fast food restaurant.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (27:50):
And.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Was able to hopefully make that a much less successful attack.
I would add in the wake of the Lindsay Clancy
discussion for all the women out there saying she's stressed,
her hormones are out of whack. Should the woman in
Times Square who was walking around with a knife who
stabbed that young mom to death? Should she be charged
(28:10):
with first-degree murder and go away for the rest of
her life even though she might be crazy? Yes. My
answer is yes. Again, are you being consistent in the
way that you're applying the law? She's dead, but you
would have charged her with first-degree murder.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
The cops shot her. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 7 (28:25):
Sorry.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah. I'm glad the cops.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Lit her up. By the way, I'm glad the cops
shot her, by the way, if you're running around with
a knife.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
People were saying they objected to that.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Oh, I remember. I saw it.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
And I sit here and I go– But there's something...
I don't.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Know if the elevator doesn't go to the top floor
with a lot of these people online. I don't know
if they just can't process this. A person with a
knife who is running at you, who refuses commands to stop,
can easily kill you.
Speaker 7 (28:56):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
And this person had just killed somebody. Completely innocent person.
Let me add this one more detail, by the way,
on the guns. I bet the percentage of Jewish people...
with guns has skyrocketed in the last two and a
half years because the article was written from the perspective,
my father looks like the last guy who'd ever won
(29:19):
a gun. This is in the New York Times, by
the way. He's Jewish, an immigrant, a politically liberal city dweller.
He didn't grow up around guns. He believed America needed
stricter gun control laws. But during BLM, he suddenly said,
I got to get myself a gun. And in the
wake of what happened on October 7th, There's a lot
(29:39):
of Jewish. moms out there. I guarantee you and dads
who never know when your synagogue might be attacked. We
know specifically people who have made this choice themselves that
you have trained. Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
I would say the joke among my neighbors is that
Buck has trained more people than the IDF in the
last couple of years. Like I've been taking a lot
of Jewish friends in South Florida out for their first
time at the range. You know, that's something that I
can certainly handle the instruction on. And I'm actually an
NRA pistol instructor, so I can take people out there or,
you know, NRA certified. So I can take people out
(30:11):
there and and have give them a kind of one
on one pistol day. And I find it, one, very gratifying,
and they certainly do, too. And a lot of them
have gone out, and they now conceal carry. They have
firearms in the home. And it just makes people, one,
take into their own hands their safety and security. And
(30:31):
I think, two, it just raises their awareness as well
that stuff happens. Nobody would have thought, you know, Clay,
I'm two degrees removed from– meaning I know someone who
knew the woman– who worked for Blackstone, which is a
very well-known private equity firm. She was a young executive there,
(30:53):
a woman. And she was shot by that maniac who
just ran into the lobby. I forget when this was,
maybe a year ago. Do you remember this? It was
right on Park Avenue in Manhattan, kind of down in
the 50s. Ran into the lobby and just started shooting people.
And actually shot the cop. There was an off-duty cop
who was there that the guy shot first. And then
he just went around and he had to go, nobody
(31:14):
else can help you. If there's not a cop there
and somebody has a gun or a knife in New York,
that's the reality. You're on your own. And by the way,
they disarm you. That's the point about Clay, the gun-free zone.
There are still shootings in Times Square, just not of
law-abiding citizens defending themselves. Well done, New York. Well done,
(31:35):
Mom Donnie. They disarm the law-abiding.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Just think about that. That mom is walking in Times
Square in the middle part of the day and gets
stabbed to death. I guarantee you the data is going
to come out, Buck. What are the odds that the
woman who's now dead, who did that stabbing, that is
the killer, what are the odds that's the first time
she's ever committed a violent criminal offense? I bet zero.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Very, very.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
I mean, that she's not, yeah, has a long history
of shouldn't have been on the street.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I think it's very unlikely. Sure enough.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
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Speaker 7 (33:25):
Laugh.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Learn.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Hang with the guys.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Right there when you need them most. Clay and Buck.
Just preset them on the iHeart app. Welcome back in,
Clay and Buck. We appreciate all of you hanging out
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Jeff in North Carolina. Let's start with you, Jeff. What
you got for us?
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Guys, I'm wondering if this thing plays out to where
she's found guilty by reason of insanity because in just
a few short months, mental hospital, she gets out. If
she's approached by whoever for, say, a book deal or
a movie deal or something like that, does her ex-husband
have a right to sue her to stop that or
(34:52):
either to stop any monetary gain that she might?
Speaker 2 (34:56):
She has.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Yeah, thanks for the call. She has a First Amendment
right to be able to publish her story and be
paid for it. In theory, the children could file a
wrongful death claim against their mother, their estate's But then
they're minors, so effectively I presume the father would be
(35:16):
the beneficiary there, but he's divorced from her, and in
some way he is suing his spouse. the answer is yes. Um,
would he do it? I don't know. We got into
this some buck with OJ Simpson. For those of you
who remember when he was found liable civilly, she doesn't
have any kind of substantial assets to my knowledge. In theory, OJ,
(35:41):
I believe had to sell like the Heisman trophy. He
had to sell a lot of his personal belongings, but
you couldn't touch his pension, uh, from the NFL. Usually
pensions are protected. Certain States have so-called, um, you know,
like home is a castle sort of protections where no
matter what your home is worth, for instance, in Florida,
it is unassailable from a creditor perspective. There's a lot
(36:04):
of different ways that that can play out. The end
result is the dollars are not hugely substantial. I do
think you raise an interesting question with the GoFundMe. Reportedly,
she has gotten around a million dollars. I don't know
what her lawyer situation is, how she's paying. That's an
interesting question. Ali in South Dakota, you got 30 seconds.
Speaker 7 (36:26):
Hey, guys, I love your show. I got to get
a photo with Clay at Mount Rushmore on July 3rd,
and it was the highlight of my summer. I just
want to go back to AOC really quick. I am
genuinely rooting for her to get the Democratic nomination because
an AOC debate against J.D. Vance or Marco Rubio, the
absolute must-see TV.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
I agree with Allie there. I'm glad she has great taste.
I had a phenomenal time at Mount Rushmore. Met a
lot of our listeners there.
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