September 11, 2026 • 43 mins
Twenty-five years after the September 11 attacks, Kim Phelan shares the deeply personal story of her father, Kenneth Phelan, a New York City firefighter who died responding to the World Trade Center on 9/11.
Kenneth wasn't originally supposed to work that day. He had taken time off months earlier to attend his daughter's high-school ring day and owed another firefighter a tour. On the morning of September 11, 2001, he went to work—made lunches for his four children, said goodbye to his family, and never came home.
Kim recounts what it was like being a high-school student in New York City as the Twin Towers were attacked, initially worrying about an aunt who worked at the World Trade Center before realizing her own father was among the first responders who had gone into the towers. According to the account her family received, Kenneth went into the building, came back out, and then went back inside to help others. His remains were never recovered.
She also opens up about the side of 9/11 that the public rarely sees: waiting for a father who would never come home, comforting a little brother asking when his dad would return, growing up without him, and watching the milestones he should have been there to experience.
Twenty-five years later, Kim wants people to remember that those killed on September 11 weren't simply names on a memorial. They were fathers, mothers, husbands, wives, friends, coworkers, firefighters, police officers, and ordinary Americans living ordinary lives.
For Kim, her father's legacy continues through the family he left behind—including children who followed the family's tradition of public service. And at the 9/11 Museum, another piece of Kenneth Phelan's story lives on through a special Mets jacket honoring the diehard New York sports fan.
Never forget.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to A Numbers Game with Ryan Groduski. Thank
you guys for being here. I was out walking my
dog in New York City the other day, and I
knew it was like the week of 9-11, but it
just doesn't comprehend sometimes of everything that's happening. And I
look up and I saw the memorial lights that you
could see from basically everywhere in the city and the
metropolitan area. And I just thought, oh, wow, it's the
(00:22):
25th anniversary. And then it hit me. I've spent nearly
twice as long of my life looking at those lights
than I ever did the buildings and that's kind of
a it's a weird thought to have just but it
just shows the scale of time and I I thought
about everyone I knew you know who were not who
(00:46):
was not alive or was very very young when 9-11
happened there were over 100 million Americans who have no
memory of it and I wanted to do this episode
today in every way I can to make sure that
this is not like Pearl Harbor or another national event
that people just, it's a, like the, or the Alamo,
which is a thing that happened. I wanted to tell
(01:09):
people's stories. And I know a lot it's happening in
the news that everyone wants me to cover, but I
really want to cover this, this, this piece of history
that I lived through that a lot of you lived through.
And that affected me a lot. And on Wednesday's episode,
we had a survivor of 9-11 attacks, which was, I
thought so amazing and so compelling. And but today I'm
going to talk to someone who was the child of
(01:31):
someone who didn't make it. Lieutenant Kenneth Fallon was a
firefighter from my neighborhood in Maspeth, Queens. He had four
children and I grew up with one of them, his daughter, Erin.
He was someone I didn't know very well because he
had his his eldest two kids were daughters and his
youngest two were sons. And the youngest two were fairly
younger than me. So a lot of times where I
(01:52):
would see him maybe doing girls sports or girls things.
And I just I saw him, but I never really
spoke to him. Also, when you're a kid, you don't
really talk to other people's parents all that much. So
I didn't. But he was a constant presence. I could
tell who he was just from his face. He was
always very involved in his family, very involved in his kids,
coached a lot of sports teams. The kids all went
(02:15):
to the same grammar school as me, Our Lady of
Hope in Middle Village, Queens. In 1989, he joined the
fire department of New York and he was an engine
16 in Ladder 7 and then transferred to engine 217
in Brooklyn, which was the same fire company as his father's.
He followed in his dad's footsteps. And on the morning
of 9-11, when he was just 41 years old, two
(02:36):
years older than I am at this moment, he went
into Manhattan that day after the terrorist attack happened and
he never came home. 9-11, when it happened, I was
14 years old. I was a freshman in high school.
It was the second day, second period. I was in
free period. So I was in the library. My uncle
walked up to me. I said, oh, there's my uncle.
(02:58):
I was seeing this girl named Catherine Gonzalez who left
school after that year. I've never seen her before. Love
to get a hold of her. But of course, name
like Catherine Gonzalez. I'll never go to Google like who
she actually where she is now. But my uncle walked
up to me and said, we heard from your mom.
She's OK. And very quickly after that, the guidance counselor's
office called and said, if you have a parent who's
a first responder or works in the World Trade Center,
(03:19):
please come down to it. And I went there because
I really needed to hear my mom's voice. And the
guidance counselor's office was like the size of like a
cigarette box. It was tiny. And there was a hundred
kids there. It was packed. They were overflowing in the hallways.
And I remember just sitting there and trying to get
a hold of my mom. If you remember listening to
(03:39):
last year's episode, somehow I did. I still don't remember
how we got a hold of her, but she did
call the office and And my mother is, um, if
you remember that episode, my mother is a very hard worker,
no frills, no thrills kind of person. Uh, for an
Italian American, she has a Germanic, uh, Protestant WASP work ethic.
And I remember talking to her and saying to her,
(04:02):
I want to come home. And she said, why? You
won't be able to fix anything. Go to algebra. Don't
come home and go to algebra. That's just my mother.
That's how she viewed everything is unless you were throwing
up or bleeding, you were supposed to be in class. Um,
And as I was leaving the office that day, I
saw Aaron Fallon, my classmate who I know since I
was four years old. I thought in my head, I
(04:25):
was like, oh, everyone's parents are going to be okay
because my parent was okay. I could not comprehend the
loss happening. I just, I couldn't, I didn't, I couldn't,
and I couldn't for years understand Years and years and years.
I just could not even imagine what so many people
(04:49):
had gone through. And then I felt bad talking to
them about it because my parent had survived and I
was so lucky and theirs had it. And it wasn't
until that friend, that girl, Aaron got engaged about a
decade and a half afterwards, maybe a little less than that,
that I saw her and I thought, Oh, her dad's
not walking her down the aisle. And I, It hit
(05:12):
me like a train. Like, I think I sobbed for
like two straight hours because I had thought finally of
all the life all those people had missed, all the
memories they could have had, the memories that their kids
they could have had. And I still wasn't courageous enough
to have a conversation with any of them. I still
(05:33):
weirdly felt bad talking to them about it, felt guilty
talking to them about it. And so I approached Erin
about coming on this podcast to finally talk about it,
to have a conversation from someone who was a child
of a survivor to someone who was a child of
a hero. And Erin is a private person. She didn't
(05:53):
feel comfortable doing it, which I understand. But her sister Kim,
who is her older sister, a New York police officer, did.
She said she would come on. She said she would
talk about it. She's a few years older than I was.
I've known Kim also since I was about four years old.
And this is a really important conversation, I think, to
have from two people from the same area who experienced
(06:15):
life very differently that day and whose life was altered
completely differently that day. One whose parent came home and
one whose parent didn't. I don't think this is the
kind of conversation that anyone's ever had before in another show.
And I want to preface this by saying that Kim
is not a public person. She's not someone who gives...
(06:37):
podcast interviews all the time she's a regular joe talking
from the heart speaking you know speaking about an experience
that was horrific and how she contextualized it and how
she has dealt with it and put part of everything
to peace now she remembers her father and her father
was a hero and that's someone i want everyone to
(07:01):
listen to this podcast who at least have heard his
name and remembered that that day that horrible day that
All these people, both who survived and those who died,
went to work like every other day, and something crazy happened.
And it's important for those at least who died saving
others that this 25-year anniversary is not just something that happened,
(07:27):
that these were real people and these were real stories.
So coming up next is the story of Lieutenant Kenneth
Fallon and what he did and how he was one
of the many heroes of 9-11. that's coming up next.
Kim Phelan, thank you so much for coming on this
podcast and having a conversation with your dad.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Thank you. So thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
So let's start with September 10th, 2001. Who was your dad?
Who was Kenneth Phelan? And what do you remember about him?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Kenneth Phelan was a dad of, he had four children
and a wife. He worked as a a lieutenant at
the time, bouncing from firehouse to firehouse because that's what
happens when you're a lieutenant. You don't get a permanent
spot until, you know, you're a certain amount of months in.
With that, he was a basketball coach. He was a referee.
(08:19):
He also worked, like, for the funeral home, too. And, like,
he was good with his hands, so handyman. So he
pretty much was everything in one place.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Well, it's so funny because I kind of remember your dad, like,
you know, as a kid, you don't talk to other
people's parents very often. So I never talked to him,
but I remember him always being around because I felt
like he coached every, every basketball team under the girls
basketball team.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yes. Yeah. He was very successful too with it. Cause Aaron,
my sister's team, they did win. But I think twice.
two championships at Holt, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, yeah. He was our lady at grammar school. Yeah,
he just seemed like he was a very involved father.
From my casual seeing him, you just knew which parents
were around a lot and which ones weren't, and he
was around often.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, which is very hard as a fireman because also
they do have time off, but they could do overtime. Like,
he was the type that he would just do what
he had to do, but then be off for three
or four days to see us, where most... keep working
and not seeing their family. Um, you know, he chose
us over some overtime, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
So take us to the morning of nine 11. Um,
do you know if, was your dad on duty that
day or did he go in?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
So what happened was originally, uh, some people mix up
the story and they don't know the story. Like sometimes
the news or whatever, or even, um, there was a
conference with, uh, the street naming, they renamed it. So
what actually happened is he, when they take days off,
(10:00):
they owe tours. So what happened was for Ring Day,
which was Before September, obviously. So in June or something
like that, when I had ring day for St. Francis Prep.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I'm sorry, high school ring day.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
He took off for that day to be there. So
he owed a guy a tour for that. And he
never gave it back to him. Well, guess what that
day was? September 11th. So he wasn't originally supposed to
work that day at all. He was supposed to be off.
But since he owed somebody a tour, he said, I'll
work that day for you. Um, and unfortunately that morning, uh,
(10:36):
we did get to see him. Um, what happened was he, uh,
made us lunches and whatnot. My mom was in the shower,
said goodbye through a carton, uh, through the, um, curtain. Actually,
he didn't even see my mom. He's like, oh, goodbye.
I'm going to work. Made us all lunches, all four
of us. And then he went to work. And then
(10:56):
I was picked up by my friend's mom, drove me
and Aaron to school. And the two boys, he dropped them,
you know, like he got dropped off at Lady Hope.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah. So the two younger boys. So he was called
into work and obviously had to go there. Did anyone
ever tell you where they saw him last, what he did,
anything of that?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So I remember, so the only fire... the first responder
that was left. So basically he was on the truck
with guys, and the only person that made it out
of his truck was the chauffeur. So the chauffeur's job
is only to drive. They don't go in usually. Sometimes
(11:45):
they do, but he's the one that made it out.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So the whole company passed away.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yes, the whole... Everybody who was with them passed. They said... because,
you know, when that happens, a lot of the first
responders were, you know, it's just tragic. It's not something
that happens every day. So they were like the story
of where he was, but they said that he went in,
he came back out, he went back in again. So
I'm assuming he went back in, saved people, came back in.
(12:13):
That is the story I'm getting. They said maybe Tower 2,
but nothing was found. No remains were found at all. Unfortunately,
some of the people that we know, other families, they found...
a body part or something of like, you know, ring
or something or some kind of identification. But unfortunately they
(12:35):
found nothing and they still haven't found anything. You know,
we weren't notified recently or anything, so they never found nothing.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Now, where were you when you, when this all happened?
I mean, you were in high school, like I was,
and I were in the same high school.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah. So I don't know if you remember, um, They had,
you know, in your courtroom room class.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yes. We found out the towers. Wait one second. So
to the audience, this is a national audience. What we
had in our high school was you had first period.
Then you had homeroom for 15 minutes.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Your second period. I found out during my second period,
which was a free period. It was my second day
of high school. And I was in my free period
in the library. So guys, where were you in the second?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
So I think it was in a home room at
the time. And when the towers went down, you know, whatever,
when the first tower hit or whatever it was, because
we saw it and they're like, oh, yeah. And I
wasn't like familiar with the Twin Towers. Like, you know,
I wasn't really educated on that part. Like I was like, OK,
like that's sad, you know. And then from prep, there
(13:34):
was my peers. They were crying. And my dad worked
there or they worked around there. So I was kind
of consoling everybody else like, no, it'll be okay. You know,
I don't, you know, I was, I felt bad.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Not thinking like firemen or first responders. Yes, they respond
to it, but I'm not thinking that he's going to
die because it was a plane that hit. So I'm
not thinking of fire right away, obviously. Right. So... I
go along the day. I'm thinking, the only person I'm
thinking is not my father. I'm thinking about my aunt,
my aunt Fran. She actually worked in the building. Oh.
(14:09):
So I'm like panicking because at the end of the day,
I'm like, oh my God, my aunt Fran, she works
in the building for a law firm. So at the
end of the day, I just grabbed my sister Erin.
We went and the phones weren't working. I did have
a cell phone. Like, oh, those Nokia phones everybody was having.
So I'm not, I couldn't call my mom. Me and
(14:32):
my sister are worried. We're panicking now because we're thinking
of my poor aunt. So we found there was, you know,
a pay phone by PrEP and I used it. And
my mom goes, don't worry. We found out that your
aunt is okay because she didn't feel good And she
was on the bus and that's, I guess she never
(14:53):
got there. So I was happy about that. And I
was relieved and we were a little less worried. So
we got on the bus. Me and Aaron were like, okay,
this is great. You know, like what happened was a tragedy,
but we were happy that my aunt wasn't affected, you know,
of it or in it. We got home. You know,
(15:13):
I talked to my mom. I'm like, hey, have you
heard from dad? Now, this guy, my father, you would
hear from him. Like, there's no way. Like, he would call.
He would always check up on me because he was
always on top of me, I guess, because I'm the oldest. But,
you know, she goes, no, I haven't heard from him yet.
You know, he's all right. You know, we weren't thinking.
(15:34):
He was the last person we were thinking about. But
it came hour after hour after hour. I'm like, okay,
what's going on? And nobody was contacting us. It was
the only thing we were doing was we had everyone
like my whole family was like calling like hospitals to
see if maybe he was hurt or unconscious or, you know, anything.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah. So if you remember that day at St. Francis Prep,
they had an announcement saying if your parents worked in
the World Trade Center, please come to the guidance counselor. I,
my mom was 97th floor of tower one. She worked there.
So I went, even though I had heard that she
was okay through my uncle, because she got to a payphone,
I still went because I just wanted to hear her voice.
(16:19):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, yeah, I would too.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
And I remember seeing your sister there. And because I
had heard, it was weird. I had heard that my
mom was okay. So I kind of felt like, oh,
everyone's parents are going.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
To be okay.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Because it was just this, I don't know, false sense
of reality. When did you actually hear that your dad
had passed away?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Let's just say I'm laughing because nobody told us anything, basically.
So that night, actually, my dad's family, they came over.
Everybody came over. It was a lot, you know, and
he's from a big family. So they all came over
and they're like, Because they were finding bodies. It wasn't like,
(17:04):
you know, and people were coming out alive after the fact.
There was. But they were, you know, my dad's family
was like, you know, don't worry. Like, he's going to,
we just got to get connections. We got to find
out maybe, you know, they keep finding guys. Don't worry.
He's going to come home. He's going to come home.
He's going to come home. So they had that possibility
in everybody's head. You know, everybody was like, you know,
(17:26):
he's going to come home. You know, there's no cell
phone service. There's nothing. Maybe, you know, my dad's the
type that, He would call us to make sure we
were okay, but he would be in the Rebel looking
for all his friends. Like, he would have been in there,
I don't care, I'm in there every day looking for
everybody I got to look for. He was that type
of person. So, to me, I made the decision in
(17:49):
my head that night, if I didn't get an answer
from him, you know, from him, not from anyone else,
he's not coming home. He's dead, unfortunately. And it was
sad because... You know, I have my sister and my
two brothers. And at that time, my little brother was
like first grade. He was little. So he was, I
(18:13):
remember we were all up and he had to go
to sleep. It's too late now. I don't know. It
was like 10 or 11. I don't know what time
it was that night. And he was just like, he noticed,
when is daddy coming home? Because he sees now everybody
like kind of like worried, crying. He doesn't know what's
going on. So I had to sleep with him in
his bed and say, no, daddy's coming home tomorrow. So
(18:35):
I had to lie to him to soothe him to say, okay,
it's going to be okay. You know, that was the
hard part. I think that was the hardest part of
that day. I had to lie to my brother because
I just wanted to get him to sleep because he's
living in a reality that dad comes home all the time.
Same with me, unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Do you now we had a it's so weird for
me to have this conversation because I because my mom
made it out. I felt strange talking to people whose
parents did it. I felt very I understand. I felt
guilty about it. And I never spoke to your sister.
I never spoke to other people. I knew I just didn't.
(19:19):
And we went to like my mom, we went to
like every 9-11 memorial in the planet in New York
for like the next 20. We went to a million
of them and we never said anything to anybody because
it felt too weird. And we had heard that all
these families were getting all this aid and outreach and help.
Did you guys get any? Did it go anywhere?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, they did have a support group for the children.
It was like a camp they went to. My brothers
did go. that first year. I was older, so I
was like, I was kind of in denial. And so
was my sister. Like, I don't need therapy.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Like, you know, whatnot.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
And there was things, a lot of things offered to
me and my family and my dad's also extended family. Um,
there was things offered. I do, I understand what you're
saying because there's also people that, you know, were there
that day, but they made it out, but they died
of the, you know, of what was in the debris.
(20:23):
So I understand that, you know, part. I don't know what's,
you know, like, you know, these people helped and look
for their friends every day and then they die of
cancer or, you know, the disease from what was in there,
what they breathe in. it's like two different worlds, you know.
(20:44):
And you do get feel, you had that feeling of
where is my mom until she said something to you.
So you kind of experienced that. I'm assuming you experienced that.
I don't know if I ever going to see my
mom kind of thing. You know, I understand that, you know,
why people felt that way.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah. Well, what happened is my uncle came to the
school and said, go. We heard from your mom. She's OK.
My mom apparently had gotten a pay phone and called
my grandparents. And then but it was that was like
an hour, two hours. The buildings were. So you don't
know what I don't know if she's standing around and
knowing my mother, she would make a conversation with somebody
on the street until like.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
You know, my mother never stops talking. So I you know,
you just have to just kind of hear that gratification.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
And it's weird when something like this happens. Whenever you
lose a relative or someone you love, it's a tragedy
for you.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
But when you lose them in 9-11, it's a national tragedy. Yes.
And was there ever a part of you in these last, like,
25 years that you said to yourself, like, I don't
want my dad's memory to be just that he had
died in this horrible event?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Um... In some ways, no. Okay. You know, but... I,
that was him. Like, so he was that hero that
didn't want to be put on paper kind of thing. Like,
he did things because out of his good kindness of
his heart. And, like, people tried to be like, oh,
you know, he's a good worker, you know, whatever. You
(22:17):
want accomplishments in life, right? And you want to get rewarded.
He would do the accomplishment and like, okay, you want
to reward me fine, but he's not going to make
a big deal out of it. But through life, which
is weird, you know, you struggle when you have four kids,
you know what I'm saying? All right. Or you have
two or one, you know, like it's, it's pricey, right?
(22:38):
Even nowadays, it's even more pricey. But what he always
told me, he's like, no matter how much money we
don't have or have, you know what I'm saying? Cause my,
my both parents had to eventually them both work. My
mom stayed home with us until we were able to
go to school. But he always told me, don't worry, Kim, you'll,
(22:59):
I'll get you whatever you want. I'm not talking about like, oh,
I'll get you whatever, you.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Know, but he said, don't worry about it.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I got it. Yeah, like, I got it. Yeah. I'll
get it for you, whatever it is. It's maybe not
the best of the best, but you're going to have it.
You're not going to not have it, but you're going to,
I'll make it work. He always said, I'll make it work.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
In other words, your dad said, you'll never want for anything. Like,
you'll never be.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Right. Like, he would work an arm and a leg
just to get me whatever I needed to get. Like,
he made it work. And that's kind of like what
I do. Like, just make it work. You know what
I'm saying? Like, and you may not want to, maybe
that trip is expensive or, you know, whatever. And you
don't have the money, but then you just put it
(23:41):
on the credit card, right? And then you just make
it work and you find out how to get, you know,
how to pay it off. But if you don't do that,
you're not going to experience things and, you know, whatnot.
And that's how the type he was, you know? So
I think that, everybody that died in there should be heroized.
You know what I'm saying? Like they should be that.
(24:03):
The only problem is right now, after years, like what
you're saying, is we're not, everybody's used to, I go to,
if somebody dies, I go to a funeral, right? The
way these people died on 9-11, it was not a
regular funeral. So my dad, we never have privacy. And
(24:26):
I try to tell my mom that it's very hard. Like,
there's no privacy when it comes to my dad's death.
And those, and anyone that died on 9-11, really. There's
no privacy. You know, they have a memorial with his
name on it. And it's nice and it's peaceful. You know,
because you're just hearing the water if you ever went
to it. Yeah. I think that's why they have the
(24:47):
water drops. Because it kind of just, everything cancels out
and you just can reflect on that person, which is great.
But the only time I went, I went a couple
of times down there and I feel like the only
time that I got any kind of like respect is
the day of 9-11 because they only let those people
(25:10):
that were affected by in there.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
What do you mean by respect?
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Basically, like the families are in there and there's no
public in there. There's no one sitting on it. There's,
you know, because I don't know, like, I mean, I
don't go there every day. You know what I'm saying?
So it's kind of like a gravesite, right? So with
other people, I don't think public people are going to
other people's gravesites if you don't know them.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
I understand what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
You know what I'm saying? So there's no, there was
nothing of him to bury or whatever. So it's like,
that's the only thing I have connected to is like
them making a kind of like, it's not a, I mean,
it's kind of a memorial. It's a memorial. So that's
the only thing I can. I don't go regularly or
(25:55):
anything like that because it's kind of like I have
to pray that he's with me kind of like thing
because there's no I don't think you necessarily have to
have a place to go to. You could do it
anywhere and pray and feel that person. Sometimes they give
you signs, but it's not the normal. That's what I'm saying.
(26:15):
And that's very hard to under that's very hard to
grasp as a person, especially affected by it. So my
mom has a hard time with that as well. You
know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, no, I understand completely.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
And sometimes she just wants it as just us. And
then there's other people that come. But I try to
tell my mom it's public.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Right. And if you if you went to St. John's
Cemetery or a cemetery, you're there alone with your loved one. Essentially,
maybe one person there. No one's touching it or.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
You know, or doing that. I'm not saying that that
happens all the time there, but. I've heard it and
seen it. Right.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
You know, I never thought of that. That's really interesting. Yeah. So,
you know, right after 9-11 happened, I the loss was
so was had such a high magnitude that I couldn't
comprehend this many people dying all at once. And the
ripple effect it had for other people for their whole lives.
(27:12):
And I remember I did not cry about people dying
until your sister got engaged the first time when she
was like 25 or something. No, but whatever she did,
she got engaged. And when I thought I was like, Oh,
her dad's on there to walk her down the aisle.
I probably cry for two straight hours. Like it just
hit me that, Oh my God, they've missed out for
(27:34):
10 years.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
But I would never, I couldn't talk about it. Did
you find that people wanted, did you want to avoid
talking about it or did you want to talk about it?
And they'll let people were either trying to respect it
too much or wanting to talk about it too much
to you.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Oh, I'm like a people person. And like, even after 9-11.
They'll be like, when they find out, because I don't
announce it, you know what I'm saying? Unless you ask me.
And then a lot of people did ask me. And
they're like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. Like, if
you don't want to talk about it, it's fine. I've
heard that a million times after that. So it's something
that I got, you know, I guess familiarized and it
(28:10):
was like a normal thing for me. So, yeah, I mean,
I would talk about it with my family and like
maybe like my really best friends. You know, I think
talking about it is a good thing because a lot
of people hold things inside. So, yeah, memories like that.
I think that's what is death. Like that what affects
(28:33):
me the most. He died. Yes. I miss him. Yes. Yes.
But it's the things he's missing. I think that's what
I'm having a problem with. Like, I think that's the worst. Yeah,
because now he's got all these grandkids and, you know,
all the rest of it.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, that he missed out on. That's so hard. It's
been 25 years, you know, and it's a lot to
process that these 25 years since that day. a lot
of people weren't alive to, to, to, to remember it. What,
what do you, what do you hope people know about
(29:11):
like your dad and people like him who passed away then?
Like your own children too. Like, what would you want?
I mean, that's their grandfather.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Basically. I mean, he, you know, he loved something. He loved,
he loved his job. You know, and that's why he died,
because he loved his job. And basically, everybody else in
that building was there because of their jobs, right? Right.
they had to love it or not or whatever the
deal is. But I want them to remember that they
(29:46):
were people, average people, just doing their daily life. And,
you know, obviously, you know, other people took it. Unfortunately,
there's there is bad out there. And those people took
it from us, you know, and I think it kind
(30:06):
of shook the world because we're all in our reality
that nobody's going to hit New York or nobody's going
to hit this city. And it happened. And could it
happen again? Yes, it can happen again. And I would
hate for that to happen again, because I wouldn't want
anyone to go through what we went through. and we're
lucky enough that my dad taught us a lot of
(30:27):
values and he was a strong person and that me
and my sister and my brothers and my mother, you know, sometimes,
you know, we have our bad days and good days,
but we're still a family and we did very well,
you know, meaning, like, You know, we went to school.
We got jobs. You know, we lived our life. You know,
(30:48):
we have children now. You know, my brother vacations a lot.
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
He lives. Yeah, I see his Instagram.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Danny explores. You know, Kenny's the fireman. Aaron's the teacher.
You know, like, we all give back in some way
to the community. And that's what he was about. And
that's what my dad was about. Just giving back and
not asking for anything in return. Just doing his normal
thing and I want people to remember that like and
(31:16):
that to not take life for granted so after that
I never took And you think a different way. You
think a total different way. You know, you go on
those vacations. Like I said before, you go on those vacations.
You know, your fight with your mom or your dad
or my friends, like, I would blow it off. Like,
I would be like, all right, like, what are we
going to do? Let's just deal with the problem. And
(31:38):
we don't have to be buddy-buddies, but let's just deal
with it and move on. Because in life, there's bigger
things to worry about than all these little catty little things.
And some people, they take things... for granted, you know?
And it's because they never got hit like this. Like
they never had any, when you get, you know, when
(32:00):
somebody dies close to you, your world rocked and my
world got shaken up, rocked every, every, every which way.
So you grow from it. And, and, and we were
lucky enough, like you could turn to other things. You
could turn to drugs, alcohol, you know, pills, you know,
you could go into a dark, dark, world and i
(32:21):
think some people did some families or some family members
did and i get it i get why but you
got to be able to pick yourself up and i
think we're able to do that because of him i
don't want to let him down i don't want to
make him like oh i wait you know i don't
know what he thinks up there but i don't want
to um like not represent him in a good way
(32:45):
you know i'm saying And I think that's what a
lot of those that you see a lot of 9-11s. Oh,
you know, their their son is a cop. Their son's
a fireman. Their son, you know, where they become a lawyer,
whatever it is, they try to kind of follow in
their parents footstep, you know, which is a good thing,
you know, a good treatment. But you got to want
(33:05):
to do it. You can't just say, well, my dad
do it. You kind of you have to own up
to it and.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Want to do it.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
You got to be all in it to want to
do something.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Your dad, you know, he was so young. He was
41 years old.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
But he died a hero. Do you get comfort or, like,
a sense of honor in knowing that, like, you know,
as a public servant in police or firefighters especially, you
get told you might have to risk your life.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, you do.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
But very few people do in, like, in the grand
scheme of things. And he did. And he didn't run away.
He was there. And it cost him his life. Do
you get a sense of, honor in knowing that he
died a hero.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah i mean not too many people can say that
like you know and it's cool not cool but it's
like nice to tell the story to my kids like
hey you know like i mean who could say that
i think yes everybody say everybody has their own hero
right like your mom could be your hero everybody can
hear but he actually like died as a hero like
(34:09):
he died saving people you know helping people and i
mean all those people i'm sure Even if they weren't
a fireman or whatever, I'm sure the civilians in that
building were helping others too, like your mom, you know
what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
So I really do feel for the first responders and
the civilians that were in that building, you know, because
they didn't know what was going to come of this thing.
You know, like they thought like, okay, it hit the,
the plane hit it. You're not thinking it's going to
fall down. You're thinking it's going to be a fire, right?
And you got to put it out. That's what everybody's thinking.
But nobody thought that it would just crumble, like both
(34:44):
of them, crumble. I've never seen a building crumble like that.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
In my life. Absolutely. It's horrible. It's something I can just,
you know, close your eyes and you can see the
entire thing. You're a firefighter and your brother's a firefighter.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Yeah, I'm a cop.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Oh, you're a cop. I'm so sorry. He's a firefighter.
You're a cop.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
But your father was a cop at one point.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yes, he was a cop for like eight years. And
then he and my uncles, everybody, they transferred over to FDM1.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yes. But your grandfather was a fireman.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yes, he was. He was. He was there a long time.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Do you feel like a connection and you think maybe
your brother feels a connection to your dad? being in
the civil service space that you help people for a living.
Does that, do you feel like there's a connection there?
Like you're like, wow, I'm doing, I understand him in
a different way maybe.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yeah. So with a big family, you know, I, especially
as a male, a young boy, you know, at the
time and now they're men, my brother's, Um, it's cool.
Like you want to satisfy your dad, like your dad is,
you know, cause you're a guy, you know, you want
(36:01):
to satisfy your dad. So at first, um, when Kenny
like was going through this, nobody knows this, but like,
you know, I didn't think he would even get to
his number. Like he took the test and he didn't,
I like it's thousands of people that take that test. It's,
it's a very popular job. A lot of people want
to be firemen. Okay. So when he took it, whatever,
(36:22):
and then he finally got called. I don't, we don't
even know. It's maybe my dad upstairs, you know, he
finally got called. But once you get the call, you
got to pass everything too. So he also went to
the academy. Well, no one knows this, but he, you know,
I'm sure he's listening. Maybe he's not listening, but he,
(36:43):
he needed us. And guess what? We were there for him.
And his wife was there for him. And me, I
was there for him, you know, my mom, my sister,
you Everybody was there for them. So it was almost like,
you know, we're like a basketball team and we're like, yo,
you could do this. And I think that's what happens
with that. Yes, I could become my dad, but it's
(37:05):
a lot of expectations. I'm sure that people like me
and all the other first responders' children, if they want
to do dad's job, it's a lot to live up to.
Even though people tell you, no, you don't have to
be them, but if you get embarrassed or make a mistake,
you're being looked at. Like, you know what I'm saying?
(37:26):
So you don't want to mess up. You don't want
to look bad, you know, because you're so-and-so's kid. You
know what I'm saying? So Kenny had a rough time,
you know, and I said, listen, like, go to the academy.
And if you go to the firehouse and you don't
like it, then you quit. You know, I think he
was just, he didn't want to disappoint. You know, you
never want to disappoint your family. And that's what it was.
(37:48):
And guess what? He did it because he has a
team behind him. Like, so we're very supportive, just like
my dad was. So he did it. And a lot
of it was support. But then he actually has to
do it himself. Like, so I give him a lot
of credit. And it was hard for me, too, you know,
as well. I just I just got lucky that I
got 17 years with my dad. So I knew what
(38:10):
my dad was about. And I have his, like, some
of his, you know, characteristics and stuff like that. Just like,
you know, my mom. But I got more of him.
So I know who my dad was. My brother, you know,
you know, he was, both of them. They knew him,
but not really. Right. It's really sad.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Did he ask you mostly for that to fill in
the pieces of who he is?
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Yeah, he has asked me, like, even when he was
in kindergarten. I remember, never forget this, after 9-11, after 9-11, like,
he was crying because he couldn't remember anything. you had
to draw a picture of your family at Hope. And
he was crying because he couldn't remember, like, my dad's
hair color. He's like, is it blonde or brown? Like,
he was crying at kindergarten. So these are some of
the stories that people don't see, you know, behind the
(38:55):
closed doors. Because let me tell you, after 9-11, right,
everybody went home, right? So eventually my dad's family, they
were there to support us, but they went home, right?
So when I went back to school and everybody went
to school, when I came home, it was just mom,
two brothers, and my sister. That's it. So it was hard.
(39:18):
It was very hard to come back to that empty chair.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
You know? Right.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
And I think that's what everybody else feels, you know,
that was affected by that.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
So I want to leave up with this other thing.
There's a piece of your dad in the nine 11 museum.
He was a diehard Mets fan.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
That was my aunt Mary that did that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
It's kind of a curse, but tell us a little
bit about the jacket and everything.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
So the jacket my Aunt Mary designed and got all
the patches and everything from there.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
It's a patch of every kind of Mets achievement.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah. So she went around and did all that because
my dad was a, you know, he's the normal New
Yorker of Queens, like Jets, Mets, you know, Rangers, you know,
and Knicks, you know, basketball. So they did X for
the 9-11 memorial. They did X for things and hers
got approved. And so it has been in there. And
(40:21):
also that one, it was that one steel, I don't
know if you've ever seen it. It's that one steel thing,
part of the building that was beam. The one steel
beam that was like, so whenever they show it in
the museum, if you look like in the middle, it
says like, like, a ladder number or whatever, like his, like,
(40:41):
I remember cause I, we put it on there, his
memorial pictures, like literally like right in the middle, like
smack in the middle. So, I mean, that's pretty cool
because they actually, I don't know if anybody knows this,
but they did have the families that we were allowed
to go down there a couple of days after.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Oh, really? Did you go?
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Yes, we did.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
What was it like?
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Um, it was like a war zone. Like, I was
a kid, you know? My mom went that night, though.
She did. And she has, like, nightmares, too, from that night.
But we did get to go down there. But it
was just, like, it was weird going down there with
all the sutt, right? And all this destroying metal. Everything
(41:26):
was there. I just felt bad because, I mean, like,
I was, like, stepping on the ground where people died.
You know what I'm saying? And there was... there was things,
items of people, you know, in, in, in the dirt.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
You know, that dust. Yeah. And I didn't touch anything
because I felt like, like, that's not my dad. You know,
like these are people's stuff. Like, yeah, it was weird.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
My dad was down. My dad was a cop and
he was down there right for recovery. He would, he
would come home sometimes or come by the house. My
parents are divorced. So he'd come by the house and
he was covered in dust and, and, and, and my
mom was like, that could be someone's, that could be
someone on you. Like it's, it's so it's, people are
fascinated by what it was like to live in New
(42:12):
York afterwards. And it was so surreal in so many ways.
And I keep saying, it was very, there was a
lot of hope that people, more people had made it out,
but it was just crushing though. And it was crushing
on like a near daily basis of, of just reminders
of how bad it was. So, I know it can
be weird, hard to talk about, and I really appreciate
(42:34):
you for coming on the podcast to talk about it
a lot. And I think it's great that people remember
his legacy. So Kenneth Phelan, if you ever go to
the world, the world trade center museum, you could see
his Mets Jersey there. Kim, thanks for coming to this podcast.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you for helping me.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Thank you for listening to that. It was, I really
loved these two conversations, these two episodes. I hope you
did as well. I hope that you took something from
it and, um, that it was as important to you
as it was to me to record them. Next week,
we'll go back to politics and AI, and we have
a lot of news. I'm going to do a weekend
episode just to give you guys a little update. That's
(43:13):
not just all 9-11 stuff, but I'm so happy that
you listened to these two episodes. Please like and subscribe
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and on YouTube if
you like this podcast. Give me a thumbs up or
a five-star review, anything you can to help promote the show.
I really appreciate you all. Have a safe and happy weekend.
Welcome back to A Numbers Game with Ryan Groduski. Thank
you guys for being here. I was out walking my
dog in New York City the other day, and I
knew it was like the week of 9-11, but it
just doesn't comprehend sometimes of everything that's happening. And I
look up and I saw the memorial lights that you
could see from basically everywhere in the city and the
metropolitan area. And I just thought, oh, wow, it's the
(00:22):
25th anniversary. And then it hit me. I've spent nearly
twice as long of my life looking at those lights
than I ever did the buildings and that's kind of
a it's a weird thought to have just but it
just shows the scale of time and I I thought
about everyone I knew you know who were not who
(00:46):
was not alive or was very very young when 9-11
happened there were over 100 million Americans who have no
memory of it and I wanted to do this episode
today in every way I can to make sure that
this is not like Pearl Harbor or another national event
that people just, it's a, like the, or the Alamo,
which is a thing that happened. I wanted to tell
(01:09):
people's stories. And I know a lot it's happening in
the news that everyone wants me to cover, but I
really want to cover this, this, this piece of history
that I lived through that a lot of you lived through.
And that affected me a lot. And on Wednesday's episode,
we had a survivor of 9-11 attacks, which was, I
thought so amazing and so compelling. And but today I'm
going to talk to someone who was the child of
(01:31):
someone who didn't make it. Lieutenant Kenneth Fallon was a
firefighter from my neighborhood in Maspeth, Queens. He had four
children and I grew up with one of them, his daughter, Erin.
He was someone I didn't know very well because he
had his his eldest two kids were daughters and his
youngest two were sons. And the youngest two were fairly
younger than me. So a lot of times where I
(01:52):
would see him maybe doing girls sports or girls things.
And I just I saw him, but I never really
spoke to him. Also, when you're a kid, you don't
really talk to other people's parents all that much. So
I didn't. But he was a constant presence. I could
tell who he was just from his face. He was
always very involved in his family, very involved in his kids,
coached a lot of sports teams. The kids all went
(02:15):
to the same grammar school as me, Our Lady of
Hope in Middle Village, Queens. In 1989, he joined the
fire department of New York and he was an engine
16 in Ladder 7 and then transferred to engine 217
in Brooklyn, which was the same fire company as his father's.
He followed in his dad's footsteps. And on the morning
of 9-11, when he was just 41 years old, two
(02:36):
years older than I am at this moment, he went
into Manhattan that day after the terrorist attack happened and
he never came home. 9-11, when it happened, I was
14 years old. I was a freshman in high school.
It was the second day, second period. I was in
free period. So I was in the library. My uncle
walked up to me. I said, oh, there's my uncle.
(02:58):
I was seeing this girl named Catherine Gonzalez who left
school after that year. I've never seen her before. Love
to get a hold of her. But of course, name
like Catherine Gonzalez. I'll never go to Google like who
she actually where she is now. But my uncle walked
up to me and said, we heard from your mom.
She's OK. And very quickly after that, the guidance counselor's
office called and said, if you have a parent who's
a first responder or works in the World Trade Center,
(03:19):
please come down to it. And I went there because
I really needed to hear my mom's voice. And the
guidance counselor's office was like the size of like a
cigarette box. It was tiny. And there was a hundred
kids there. It was packed. They were overflowing in the hallways.
And I remember just sitting there and trying to get
a hold of my mom. If you remember listening to
(03:39):
last year's episode, somehow I did. I still don't remember
how we got a hold of her, but she did
call the office and And my mother is, um, if
you remember that episode, my mother is a very hard worker,
no frills, no thrills kind of person. Uh, for an
Italian American, she has a Germanic, uh, Protestant WASP work ethic.
And I remember talking to her and saying to her,
(04:02):
I want to come home. And she said, why? You
won't be able to fix anything. Go to algebra. Don't
come home and go to algebra. That's just my mother.
That's how she viewed everything is unless you were throwing
up or bleeding, you were supposed to be in class. Um,
And as I was leaving the office that day, I
saw Aaron Fallon, my classmate who I know since I
was four years old. I thought in my head, I
(04:25):
was like, oh, everyone's parents are going to be okay
because my parent was okay. I could not comprehend the
loss happening. I just, I couldn't, I didn't, I couldn't,
and I couldn't for years understand Years and years and years.
I just could not even imagine what so many people
(04:49):
had gone through. And then I felt bad talking to
them about it because my parent had survived and I
was so lucky and theirs had it. And it wasn't
until that friend, that girl, Aaron got engaged about a
decade and a half afterwards, maybe a little less than that,
that I saw her and I thought, Oh, her dad's
not walking her down the aisle. And I, It hit
(05:12):
me like a train. Like, I think I sobbed for
like two straight hours because I had thought finally of
all the life all those people had missed, all the
memories they could have had, the memories that their kids
they could have had. And I still wasn't courageous enough
to have a conversation with any of them. I still
(05:33):
weirdly felt bad talking to them about it, felt guilty
talking to them about it. And so I approached Erin
about coming on this podcast to finally talk about it,
to have a conversation from someone who was a child
of a survivor to someone who was a child of
a hero. And Erin is a private person. She didn't
(05:53):
feel comfortable doing it, which I understand. But her sister Kim,
who is her older sister, a New York police officer, did.
She said she would come on. She said she would
talk about it. She's a few years older than I was.
I've known Kim also since I was about four years old.
And this is a really important conversation, I think, to
have from two people from the same area who experienced
(06:15):
life very differently that day and whose life was altered
completely differently that day. One whose parent came home and
one whose parent didn't. I don't think this is the
kind of conversation that anyone's ever had before in another show.
And I want to preface this by saying that Kim
is not a public person. She's not someone who gives...
(06:37):
podcast interviews all the time she's a regular joe talking
from the heart speaking you know speaking about an experience
that was horrific and how she contextualized it and how
she has dealt with it and put part of everything
to peace now she remembers her father and her father
was a hero and that's someone i want everyone to
(07:01):
listen to this podcast who at least have heard his
name and remembered that that day that horrible day that
All these people, both who survived and those who died,
went to work like every other day, and something crazy happened.
And it's important for those at least who died saving
others that this 25-year anniversary is not just something that happened,
(07:27):
that these were real people and these were real stories.
So coming up next is the story of Lieutenant Kenneth
Fallon and what he did and how he was one
of the many heroes of 9-11. that's coming up next.
Kim Phelan, thank you so much for coming on this
podcast and having a conversation with your dad.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Thank you. So thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
So let's start with September 10th, 2001. Who was your dad?
Who was Kenneth Phelan? And what do you remember about him?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Kenneth Phelan was a dad of, he had four children
and a wife. He worked as a a lieutenant at
the time, bouncing from firehouse to firehouse because that's what
happens when you're a lieutenant. You don't get a permanent
spot until, you know, you're a certain amount of months in.
With that, he was a basketball coach. He was a referee.
(08:19):
He also worked, like, for the funeral home, too. And, like,
he was good with his hands, so handyman. So he
pretty much was everything in one place.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Well, it's so funny because I kind of remember your dad, like,
you know, as a kid, you don't talk to other
people's parents very often. So I never talked to him,
but I remember him always being around because I felt
like he coached every, every basketball team under the girls
basketball team.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yes. Yeah. He was very successful too with it. Cause Aaron,
my sister's team, they did win. But I think twice.
two championships at Holt, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, yeah. He was our lady at grammar school. Yeah,
he just seemed like he was a very involved father.
From my casual seeing him, you just knew which parents
were around a lot and which ones weren't, and he
was around often.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, which is very hard as a fireman because also
they do have time off, but they could do overtime. Like,
he was the type that he would just do what
he had to do, but then be off for three
or four days to see us, where most... keep working
and not seeing their family. Um, you know, he chose
us over some overtime, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
So take us to the morning of nine 11. Um,
do you know if, was your dad on duty that
day or did he go in?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
So what happened was originally, uh, some people mix up
the story and they don't know the story. Like sometimes
the news or whatever, or even, um, there was a
conference with, uh, the street naming, they renamed it. So
what actually happened is he, when they take days off,
(10:00):
they owe tours. So what happened was for Ring Day,
which was Before September, obviously. So in June or something
like that, when I had ring day for St. Francis Prep.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I'm sorry, high school ring day.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
He took off for that day to be there. So
he owed a guy a tour for that. And he
never gave it back to him. Well, guess what that
day was? September 11th. So he wasn't originally supposed to
work that day at all. He was supposed to be off.
But since he owed somebody a tour, he said, I'll
work that day for you. Um, and unfortunately that morning, uh,
(10:36):
we did get to see him. Um, what happened was he, uh,
made us lunches and whatnot. My mom was in the shower,
said goodbye through a carton, uh, through the, um, curtain. Actually,
he didn't even see my mom. He's like, oh, goodbye.
I'm going to work. Made us all lunches, all four
of us. And then he went to work. And then
(10:56):
I was picked up by my friend's mom, drove me
and Aaron to school. And the two boys, he dropped them,
you know, like he got dropped off at Lady Hope.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah. So the two younger boys. So he was called
into work and obviously had to go there. Did anyone
ever tell you where they saw him last, what he did,
anything of that?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So I remember, so the only fire... the first responder
that was left. So basically he was on the truck
with guys, and the only person that made it out
of his truck was the chauffeur. So the chauffeur's job
is only to drive. They don't go in usually. Sometimes
(11:45):
they do, but he's the one that made it out.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So the whole company passed away.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yes, the whole... Everybody who was with them passed. They said... because,
you know, when that happens, a lot of the first
responders were, you know, it's just tragic. It's not something
that happens every day. So they were like the story
of where he was, but they said that he went in,
he came back out, he went back in again. So
I'm assuming he went back in, saved people, came back in.
(12:13):
That is the story I'm getting. They said maybe Tower 2,
but nothing was found. No remains were found at all. Unfortunately,
some of the people that we know, other families, they found...
a body part or something of like, you know, ring
or something or some kind of identification. But unfortunately they
(12:35):
found nothing and they still haven't found anything. You know,
we weren't notified recently or anything, so they never found nothing.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Now, where were you when you, when this all happened?
I mean, you were in high school, like I was,
and I were in the same high school.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah. So I don't know if you remember, um, They had,
you know, in your courtroom room class.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yes. We found out the towers. Wait one second. So
to the audience, this is a national audience. What we
had in our high school was you had first period.
Then you had homeroom for 15 minutes.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Your second period. I found out during my second period,
which was a free period. It was my second day
of high school. And I was in my free period
in the library. So guys, where were you in the second?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
So I think it was in a home room at
the time. And when the towers went down, you know, whatever,
when the first tower hit or whatever it was, because
we saw it and they're like, oh, yeah. And I
wasn't like familiar with the Twin Towers. Like, you know,
I wasn't really educated on that part. Like I was like, OK,
like that's sad, you know. And then from prep, there
(13:34):
was my peers. They were crying. And my dad worked
there or they worked around there. So I was kind
of consoling everybody else like, no, it'll be okay. You know,
I don't, you know, I was, I felt bad.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Not thinking like firemen or first responders. Yes, they respond
to it, but I'm not thinking that he's going to
die because it was a plane that hit. So I'm
not thinking of fire right away, obviously. Right. So... I
go along the day. I'm thinking, the only person I'm
thinking is not my father. I'm thinking about my aunt,
my aunt Fran. She actually worked in the building. Oh.
(14:09):
So I'm like panicking because at the end of the day,
I'm like, oh my God, my aunt Fran, she works
in the building for a law firm. So at the
end of the day, I just grabbed my sister Erin.
We went and the phones weren't working. I did have
a cell phone. Like, oh, those Nokia phones everybody was having.
So I'm not, I couldn't call my mom. Me and
(14:32):
my sister are worried. We're panicking now because we're thinking
of my poor aunt. So we found there was, you know,
a pay phone by PrEP and I used it. And
my mom goes, don't worry. We found out that your
aunt is okay because she didn't feel good And she
was on the bus and that's, I guess she never
(14:53):
got there. So I was happy about that. And I
was relieved and we were a little less worried. So
we got on the bus. Me and Aaron were like, okay,
this is great. You know, like what happened was a tragedy,
but we were happy that my aunt wasn't affected, you know,
of it or in it. We got home. You know,
(15:13):
I talked to my mom. I'm like, hey, have you
heard from dad? Now, this guy, my father, you would
hear from him. Like, there's no way. Like, he would call.
He would always check up on me because he was
always on top of me, I guess, because I'm the oldest. But,
you know, she goes, no, I haven't heard from him yet.
You know, he's all right. You know, we weren't thinking.
(15:34):
He was the last person we were thinking about. But
it came hour after hour after hour. I'm like, okay,
what's going on? And nobody was contacting us. It was
the only thing we were doing was we had everyone
like my whole family was like calling like hospitals to
see if maybe he was hurt or unconscious or, you know, anything.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah. So if you remember that day at St. Francis Prep,
they had an announcement saying if your parents worked in
the World Trade Center, please come to the guidance counselor. I,
my mom was 97th floor of tower one. She worked there.
So I went, even though I had heard that she
was okay through my uncle, because she got to a payphone,
I still went because I just wanted to hear her voice.
(16:19):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, yeah, I would too.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
And I remember seeing your sister there. And because I
had heard, it was weird. I had heard that my
mom was okay. So I kind of felt like, oh,
everyone's parents are going.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
To be okay.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Because it was just this, I don't know, false sense
of reality. When did you actually hear that your dad
had passed away?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Let's just say I'm laughing because nobody told us anything, basically.
So that night, actually, my dad's family, they came over.
Everybody came over. It was a lot, you know, and
he's from a big family. So they all came over
and they're like, Because they were finding bodies. It wasn't like,
(17:04):
you know, and people were coming out alive after the fact.
There was. But they were, you know, my dad's family
was like, you know, don't worry. Like, he's going to,
we just got to get connections. We got to find
out maybe, you know, they keep finding guys. Don't worry.
He's going to come home. He's going to come home.
He's going to come home. So they had that possibility
in everybody's head. You know, everybody was like, you know,
(17:26):
he's going to come home. You know, there's no cell
phone service. There's nothing. Maybe, you know, my dad's the
type that, He would call us to make sure we
were okay, but he would be in the Rebel looking
for all his friends. Like, he would have been in there,
I don't care, I'm in there every day looking for
everybody I got to look for. He was that type
of person. So, to me, I made the decision in
(17:49):
my head that night, if I didn't get an answer
from him, you know, from him, not from anyone else,
he's not coming home. He's dead, unfortunately. And it was
sad because... You know, I have my sister and my
two brothers. And at that time, my little brother was
like first grade. He was little. So he was, I
(18:13):
remember we were all up and he had to go
to sleep. It's too late now. I don't know. It
was like 10 or 11. I don't know what time
it was that night. And he was just like, he noticed,
when is daddy coming home? Because he sees now everybody
like kind of like worried, crying. He doesn't know what's
going on. So I had to sleep with him in
his bed and say, no, daddy's coming home tomorrow. So
(18:35):
I had to lie to him to soothe him to say, okay,
it's going to be okay. You know, that was the
hard part. I think that was the hardest part of
that day. I had to lie to my brother because
I just wanted to get him to sleep because he's
living in a reality that dad comes home all the time.
Same with me, unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Do you now we had a it's so weird for
me to have this conversation because I because my mom
made it out. I felt strange talking to people whose
parents did it. I felt very I understand. I felt
guilty about it. And I never spoke to your sister.
I never spoke to other people. I knew I just didn't.
(19:19):
And we went to like my mom, we went to
like every 9-11 memorial in the planet in New York
for like the next 20. We went to a million
of them and we never said anything to anybody because
it felt too weird. And we had heard that all
these families were getting all this aid and outreach and help.
Did you guys get any? Did it go anywhere?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, they did have a support group for the children.
It was like a camp they went to. My brothers
did go. that first year. I was older, so I
was like, I was kind of in denial. And so
was my sister. Like, I don't need therapy.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Like, you know, whatnot.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
And there was things, a lot of things offered to
me and my family and my dad's also extended family. Um,
there was things offered. I do, I understand what you're
saying because there's also people that, you know, were there
that day, but they made it out, but they died
of the, you know, of what was in the debris.
(20:23):
So I understand that, you know, part. I don't know what's,
you know, like, you know, these people helped and look
for their friends every day and then they die of
cancer or, you know, the disease from what was in there,
what they breathe in. it's like two different worlds, you know.
(20:44):
And you do get feel, you had that feeling of
where is my mom until she said something to you.
So you kind of experienced that. I'm assuming you experienced that.
I don't know if I ever going to see my
mom kind of thing. You know, I understand that, you know,
why people felt that way.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah. Well, what happened is my uncle came to the
school and said, go. We heard from your mom. She's OK.
My mom apparently had gotten a pay phone and called
my grandparents. And then but it was that was like
an hour, two hours. The buildings were. So you don't
know what I don't know if she's standing around and
knowing my mother, she would make a conversation with somebody
on the street until like.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
You know, my mother never stops talking. So I you know,
you just have to just kind of hear that gratification.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
And it's weird when something like this happens. Whenever you
lose a relative or someone you love, it's a tragedy
for you.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
But when you lose them in 9-11, it's a national tragedy. Yes.
And was there ever a part of you in these last, like,
25 years that you said to yourself, like, I don't
want my dad's memory to be just that he had
died in this horrible event?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Um... In some ways, no. Okay. You know, but... I,
that was him. Like, so he was that hero that
didn't want to be put on paper kind of thing. Like,
he did things because out of his good kindness of
his heart. And, like, people tried to be like, oh,
you know, he's a good worker, you know, whatever. You
(22:17):
want accomplishments in life, right? And you want to get rewarded.
He would do the accomplishment and like, okay, you want
to reward me fine, but he's not going to make
a big deal out of it. But through life, which
is weird, you know, you struggle when you have four kids,
you know what I'm saying? All right. Or you have
two or one, you know, like it's, it's pricey, right?
(22:38):
Even nowadays, it's even more pricey. But what he always
told me, he's like, no matter how much money we
don't have or have, you know what I'm saying? Cause my,
my both parents had to eventually them both work. My
mom stayed home with us until we were able to
go to school. But he always told me, don't worry, Kim, you'll,
(22:59):
I'll get you whatever you want. I'm not talking about like, oh,
I'll get you whatever, you.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Know, but he said, don't worry about it.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I got it. Yeah, like, I got it. Yeah. I'll
get it for you, whatever it is. It's maybe not
the best of the best, but you're going to have it.
You're not going to not have it, but you're going to,
I'll make it work. He always said, I'll make it work.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
In other words, your dad said, you'll never want for anything. Like,
you'll never be.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Right. Like, he would work an arm and a leg
just to get me whatever I needed to get. Like,
he made it work. And that's kind of like what
I do. Like, just make it work. You know what
I'm saying? Like, and you may not want to, maybe
that trip is expensive or, you know, whatever. And you
don't have the money, but then you just put it
(23:41):
on the credit card, right? And then you just make
it work and you find out how to get, you know,
how to pay it off. But if you don't do that,
you're not going to experience things and, you know, whatnot.
And that's how the type he was, you know? So
I think that, everybody that died in there should be heroized.
You know what I'm saying? Like they should be that.
(24:03):
The only problem is right now, after years, like what
you're saying, is we're not, everybody's used to, I go to,
if somebody dies, I go to a funeral, right? The
way these people died on 9-11, it was not a
regular funeral. So my dad, we never have privacy. And
(24:26):
I try to tell my mom that it's very hard. Like,
there's no privacy when it comes to my dad's death.
And those, and anyone that died on 9-11, really. There's
no privacy. You know, they have a memorial with his
name on it. And it's nice and it's peaceful. You know,
because you're just hearing the water if you ever went
to it. Yeah. I think that's why they have the
(24:47):
water drops. Because it kind of just, everything cancels out
and you just can reflect on that person, which is great.
But the only time I went, I went a couple
of times down there and I feel like the only
time that I got any kind of like respect is
the day of 9-11 because they only let those people
(25:10):
that were affected by in there.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
What do you mean by respect?
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Basically, like the families are in there and there's no
public in there. There's no one sitting on it. There's,
you know, because I don't know, like, I mean, I
don't go there every day. You know what I'm saying?
So it's kind of like a gravesite, right? So with
other people, I don't think public people are going to
other people's gravesites if you don't know them.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
I understand what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
You know what I'm saying? So there's no, there was
nothing of him to bury or whatever. So it's like,
that's the only thing I have connected to is like
them making a kind of like, it's not a, I mean,
it's kind of a memorial. It's a memorial. So that's
the only thing I can. I don't go regularly or
(25:55):
anything like that because it's kind of like I have
to pray that he's with me kind of like thing
because there's no I don't think you necessarily have to
have a place to go to. You could do it
anywhere and pray and feel that person. Sometimes they give
you signs, but it's not the normal. That's what I'm saying.
(26:15):
And that's very hard to under that's very hard to
grasp as a person, especially affected by it. So my
mom has a hard time with that as well. You
know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, no, I understand completely.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
And sometimes she just wants it as just us. And
then there's other people that come. But I try to
tell my mom it's public.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Right. And if you if you went to St. John's
Cemetery or a cemetery, you're there alone with your loved one. Essentially,
maybe one person there. No one's touching it or.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
You know, or doing that. I'm not saying that that
happens all the time there, but. I've heard it and
seen it. Right.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
You know, I never thought of that. That's really interesting. Yeah. So,
you know, right after 9-11 happened, I the loss was
so was had such a high magnitude that I couldn't
comprehend this many people dying all at once. And the
ripple effect it had for other people for their whole lives.
(27:12):
And I remember I did not cry about people dying
until your sister got engaged the first time when she
was like 25 or something. No, but whatever she did,
she got engaged. And when I thought I was like, Oh,
her dad's on there to walk her down the aisle.
I probably cry for two straight hours. Like it just
hit me that, Oh my God, they've missed out for
(27:34):
10 years.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
But I would never, I couldn't talk about it. Did
you find that people wanted, did you want to avoid
talking about it or did you want to talk about it?
And they'll let people were either trying to respect it
too much or wanting to talk about it too much
to you.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Oh, I'm like a people person. And like, even after 9-11.
They'll be like, when they find out, because I don't
announce it, you know what I'm saying? Unless you ask me.
And then a lot of people did ask me. And
they're like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. Like, if
you don't want to talk about it, it's fine. I've
heard that a million times after that. So it's something
that I got, you know, I guess familiarized and it
(28:10):
was like a normal thing for me. So, yeah, I mean,
I would talk about it with my family and like
maybe like my really best friends. You know, I think
talking about it is a good thing because a lot
of people hold things inside. So, yeah, memories like that.
I think that's what is death. Like that what affects
(28:33):
me the most. He died. Yes. I miss him. Yes. Yes.
But it's the things he's missing. I think that's what
I'm having a problem with. Like, I think that's the worst. Yeah,
because now he's got all these grandkids and, you know,
all the rest of it.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, that he missed out on. That's so hard. It's
been 25 years, you know, and it's a lot to
process that these 25 years since that day. a lot
of people weren't alive to, to, to, to remember it. What,
what do you, what do you hope people know about
(29:11):
like your dad and people like him who passed away then?
Like your own children too. Like, what would you want?
I mean, that's their grandfather.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Basically. I mean, he, you know, he loved something. He loved,
he loved his job. You know, and that's why he died,
because he loved his job. And basically, everybody else in
that building was there because of their jobs, right? Right.
they had to love it or not or whatever the
deal is. But I want them to remember that they
(29:46):
were people, average people, just doing their daily life. And,
you know, obviously, you know, other people took it. Unfortunately,
there's there is bad out there. And those people took
it from us, you know, and I think it kind
(30:06):
of shook the world because we're all in our reality
that nobody's going to hit New York or nobody's going
to hit this city. And it happened. And could it
happen again? Yes, it can happen again. And I would
hate for that to happen again, because I wouldn't want
anyone to go through what we went through. and we're
lucky enough that my dad taught us a lot of
(30:27):
values and he was a strong person and that me
and my sister and my brothers and my mother, you know, sometimes,
you know, we have our bad days and good days,
but we're still a family and we did very well,
you know, meaning, like, You know, we went to school.
We got jobs. You know, we lived our life. You know,
(30:48):
we have children now. You know, my brother vacations a lot.
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
He lives. Yeah, I see his Instagram.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Danny explores. You know, Kenny's the fireman. Aaron's the teacher.
You know, like, we all give back in some way
to the community. And that's what he was about. And
that's what my dad was about. Just giving back and
not asking for anything in return. Just doing his normal
thing and I want people to remember that like and
(31:16):
that to not take life for granted so after that
I never took And you think a different way. You
think a total different way. You know, you go on
those vacations. Like I said before, you go on those vacations.
You know, your fight with your mom or your dad
or my friends, like, I would blow it off. Like,
I would be like, all right, like, what are we
going to do? Let's just deal with the problem. And
(31:38):
we don't have to be buddy-buddies, but let's just deal
with it and move on. Because in life, there's bigger
things to worry about than all these little catty little things.
And some people, they take things... for granted, you know?
And it's because they never got hit like this. Like
they never had any, when you get, you know, when
(32:00):
somebody dies close to you, your world rocked and my
world got shaken up, rocked every, every, every which way.
So you grow from it. And, and, and we were
lucky enough, like you could turn to other things. You
could turn to drugs, alcohol, you know, pills, you know,
you could go into a dark, dark, world and i
(32:21):
think some people did some families or some family members
did and i get it i get why but you
got to be able to pick yourself up and i
think we're able to do that because of him i
don't want to let him down i don't want to
make him like oh i wait you know i don't
know what he thinks up there but i don't want
to um like not represent him in a good way
(32:45):
you know i'm saying And I think that's what a
lot of those that you see a lot of 9-11s. Oh,
you know, their their son is a cop. Their son's
a fireman. Their son, you know, where they become a lawyer,
whatever it is, they try to kind of follow in
their parents footstep, you know, which is a good thing,
you know, a good treatment. But you got to want
(33:05):
to do it. You can't just say, well, my dad
do it. You kind of you have to own up
to it and.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Want to do it.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
You got to be all in it to want to
do something.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Your dad, you know, he was so young. He was
41 years old.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
But he died a hero. Do you get comfort or, like,
a sense of honor in knowing that, like, you know,
as a public servant in police or firefighters especially, you
get told you might have to risk your life.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, you do.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
But very few people do in, like, in the grand
scheme of things. And he did. And he didn't run away.
He was there. And it cost him his life. Do
you get a sense of, honor in knowing that he
died a hero.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah i mean not too many people can say that
like you know and it's cool not cool but it's
like nice to tell the story to my kids like
hey you know like i mean who could say that
i think yes everybody say everybody has their own hero
right like your mom could be your hero everybody can
hear but he actually like died as a hero like
(34:09):
he died saving people you know helping people and i
mean all those people i'm sure Even if they weren't
a fireman or whatever, I'm sure the civilians in that
building were helping others too, like your mom, you know
what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
So I really do feel for the first responders and
the civilians that were in that building, you know, because
they didn't know what was going to come of this thing.
You know, like they thought like, okay, it hit the,
the plane hit it. You're not thinking it's going to
fall down. You're thinking it's going to be a fire, right?
And you got to put it out. That's what everybody's thinking.
But nobody thought that it would just crumble, like both
(34:44):
of them, crumble. I've never seen a building crumble like that.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
In my life. Absolutely. It's horrible. It's something I can just,
you know, close your eyes and you can see the
entire thing. You're a firefighter and your brother's a firefighter.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Yeah, I'm a cop.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Oh, you're a cop. I'm so sorry. He's a firefighter.
You're a cop.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
But your father was a cop at one point.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yes, he was a cop for like eight years. And
then he and my uncles, everybody, they transferred over to FDM1.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yes. But your grandfather was a fireman.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yes, he was. He was. He was there a long time.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Do you feel like a connection and you think maybe
your brother feels a connection to your dad? being in
the civil service space that you help people for a living.
Does that, do you feel like there's a connection there?
Like you're like, wow, I'm doing, I understand him in
a different way maybe.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yeah. So with a big family, you know, I, especially
as a male, a young boy, you know, at the
time and now they're men, my brother's, Um, it's cool.
Like you want to satisfy your dad, like your dad is,
you know, cause you're a guy, you know, you want
(36:01):
to satisfy your dad. So at first, um, when Kenny
like was going through this, nobody knows this, but like,
you know, I didn't think he would even get to
his number. Like he took the test and he didn't,
I like it's thousands of people that take that test. It's,
it's a very popular job. A lot of people want
to be firemen. Okay. So when he took it, whatever,
(36:22):
and then he finally got called. I don't, we don't
even know. It's maybe my dad upstairs, you know, he
finally got called. But once you get the call, you
got to pass everything too. So he also went to
the academy. Well, no one knows this, but he, you know,
I'm sure he's listening. Maybe he's not listening, but he,
(36:43):
he needed us. And guess what? We were there for him.
And his wife was there for him. And me, I
was there for him, you know, my mom, my sister,
you Everybody was there for them. So it was almost like,
you know, we're like a basketball team and we're like, yo,
you could do this. And I think that's what happens
with that. Yes, I could become my dad, but it's
(37:05):
a lot of expectations. I'm sure that people like me
and all the other first responders' children, if they want
to do dad's job, it's a lot to live up to.
Even though people tell you, no, you don't have to
be them, but if you get embarrassed or make a mistake,
you're being looked at. Like, you know what I'm saying?
(37:26):
So you don't want to mess up. You don't want
to look bad, you know, because you're so-and-so's kid. You
know what I'm saying? So Kenny had a rough time,
you know, and I said, listen, like, go to the academy.
And if you go to the firehouse and you don't
like it, then you quit. You know, I think he
was just, he didn't want to disappoint. You know, you
never want to disappoint your family. And that's what it was.
(37:48):
And guess what? He did it because he has a
team behind him. Like, so we're very supportive, just like
my dad was. So he did it. And a lot
of it was support. But then he actually has to
do it himself. Like, so I give him a lot
of credit. And it was hard for me, too, you know,
as well. I just I just got lucky that I
got 17 years with my dad. So I knew what
(38:10):
my dad was about. And I have his, like, some
of his, you know, characteristics and stuff like that. Just like,
you know, my mom. But I got more of him.
So I know who my dad was. My brother, you know,
you know, he was, both of them. They knew him,
but not really. Right. It's really sad.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Did he ask you mostly for that to fill in
the pieces of who he is?
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Yeah, he has asked me, like, even when he was
in kindergarten. I remember, never forget this, after 9-11, after 9-11, like,
he was crying because he couldn't remember anything. you had
to draw a picture of your family at Hope. And
he was crying because he couldn't remember, like, my dad's
hair color. He's like, is it blonde or brown? Like,
he was crying at kindergarten. So these are some of
the stories that people don't see, you know, behind the
(38:55):
closed doors. Because let me tell you, after 9-11, right,
everybody went home, right? So eventually my dad's family, they
were there to support us, but they went home, right?
So when I went back to school and everybody went
to school, when I came home, it was just mom,
two brothers, and my sister. That's it. So it was hard.
(39:18):
It was very hard to come back to that empty chair.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
You know? Right.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
And I think that's what everybody else feels, you know,
that was affected by that.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
So I want to leave up with this other thing.
There's a piece of your dad in the nine 11 museum.
He was a diehard Mets fan.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
That was my aunt Mary that did that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
It's kind of a curse, but tell us a little
bit about the jacket and everything.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
So the jacket my Aunt Mary designed and got all
the patches and everything from there.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
It's a patch of every kind of Mets achievement.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah. So she went around and did all that because
my dad was a, you know, he's the normal New
Yorker of Queens, like Jets, Mets, you know, Rangers, you know,
and Knicks, you know, basketball. So they did X for
the 9-11 memorial. They did X for things and hers
got approved. And so it has been in there. And
(40:21):
also that one, it was that one steel, I don't
know if you've ever seen it. It's that one steel thing,
part of the building that was beam. The one steel
beam that was like, so whenever they show it in
the museum, if you look like in the middle, it
says like, like, a ladder number or whatever, like his, like,
(40:41):
I remember cause I, we put it on there, his
memorial pictures, like literally like right in the middle, like
smack in the middle. So, I mean, that's pretty cool
because they actually, I don't know if anybody knows this,
but they did have the families that we were allowed
to go down there a couple of days after.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Oh, really? Did you go?
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Yes, we did.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
What was it like?
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Um, it was like a war zone. Like, I was
a kid, you know? My mom went that night, though.
She did. And she has, like, nightmares, too, from that night.
But we did get to go down there. But it
was just, like, it was weird going down there with
all the sutt, right? And all this destroying metal. Everything
(41:26):
was there. I just felt bad because, I mean, like,
I was, like, stepping on the ground where people died.
You know what I'm saying? And there was... there was things,
items of people, you know, in, in, in the dirt.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
You know, that dust. Yeah. And I didn't touch anything
because I felt like, like, that's not my dad. You know,
like these are people's stuff. Like, yeah, it was weird.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
My dad was down. My dad was a cop and
he was down there right for recovery. He would, he
would come home sometimes or come by the house. My
parents are divorced. So he'd come by the house and
he was covered in dust and, and, and, and my
mom was like, that could be someone's, that could be
someone on you. Like it's, it's so it's, people are
fascinated by what it was like to live in New
(42:12):
York afterwards. And it was so surreal in so many ways.
And I keep saying, it was very, there was a
lot of hope that people, more people had made it out,
but it was just crushing though. And it was crushing
on like a near daily basis of, of just reminders
of how bad it was. So, I know it can
be weird, hard to talk about, and I really appreciate
(42:34):
you for coming on the podcast to talk about it
a lot. And I think it's great that people remember
his legacy. So Kenneth Phelan, if you ever go to
the world, the world trade center museum, you could see
his Mets Jersey there. Kim, thanks for coming to this podcast.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you for helping me.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Thank you for listening to that. It was, I really
loved these two conversations, these two episodes. I hope you
did as well. I hope that you took something from
it and, um, that it was as important to you
as it was to me to record them. Next week,
we'll go back to politics and AI, and we have
a lot of news. I'm going to do a weekend
episode just to give you guys a little update. That's
(43:13):
not just all 9-11 stuff, but I'm so happy that
you listened to these two episodes. Please like and subscribe
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and on YouTube if
you like this podcast. Give me a thumbs up or
a five-star review, anything you can to help promote the show.
I really appreciate you all. Have a safe and happy weekend.
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Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
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