A stunning upset in Wisconsin has Democrats—and Democratic Socialists—asking what went wrong.
Karol Markowicz is joined by guest co-host Jordan Schachtel, publisher of The Dossier, to break down Francesca Hong’s surprise loss in the Wisconsin Democratic gubernatorial primary despite polling that suggested she was positioned to win. Did the Democratic establishment quietly mobilize to stop the socialist candidate? Karol and Jordan examine Bernie Sanders and AOC’s decision not to endorse Hong, David Crowley’s remarkable return to the race, and what the result could reveal about the Democratic Party’s ability to contain its far-left flank.
They also dig into other major primary results, including Mike Lindell’s defeat in Minnesota, Michelle Tafoya’s political future, and the South Carolina Senate runoff.
Then, Karol and Jordan turn to new questions surrounding Anthony Fauci and the COVID vaccine. They discuss reports about Fauci’s private concerns involving vaccination and pregnancy, informed consent, public-health messaging, and why the pandemic response shattered trust in America’s medical establishment for so many people.
Finally, Florida is posting striking crime numbers. Karol and Jordan discuss Gov. Ron DeSantis’ approach to law enforcement, why they believe Florida’s policies are producing results, and whether Byron Donalds can continue the state’s conservative trajectory in the race for governor.
From Wisconsin’s election shock to Fauci, COVID, crime and the future of Florida, Karol and Jordan break down the stories driving the political conversation.
Follow Clay & Buck on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/clayandbuck
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, and welcome to Normally the Show with normalist takes
from when the News gets weird.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm Carol Markowitz.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Mary Katherine ham Is on vacation, and my guest co
host today is my friend Jordan Shaktel, publisher of the
excellent substack The Dossier, and senior policy advisor for the
Innovation Council.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thanks so much for joining me, Jordan.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Yeah, thanks, Carol, A big shoes to fill, big fan
of the show.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I fully believe in you, and you know, we get
to discuss something positive. A communist lost the election last
night in Wisconsin, a communist who was slated to win
the election by double digits. The big news is Francesca Hang.
She was running for governor Wisconsin and she lost. It
was a big upset. All the polls had her leading.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
What do you think of that?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I think it goes to show the power of the
democratic machine and how the DSA branch is kind of
actively negotiated with these legacy Democrats. The most revealing thing
to me was that in the weeks leading up to
the election, both Bernie and AOC refused to endorse Hong,
and that was kind of like a piece of information
(01:13):
that I kept kind of in the back of my mind,
and it revealed itself yesterday. I think the surprise upset.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
So do you think if Bernie and AOC endorsed, she
would have won?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Because I kind of, you know, I saw somebody say
this on X earlier this morning, but weren't all of
those people who would have cared about a Bernie or
AOC endorsement already voting Hong. I saw Ben Shapiro's kind
of echoing that, also saying that you know, they didn't
endorse and she would have won.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
But I don't know, do you really think so?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I think there was probably a decision made behind closed
doors that they weren't going to push for her, but
maybe if she could accomplish it on her own that
they would have been okay with that. But it seems
like there was some kind of negotiation that we weren't
privy to. But I mostly agree with your narrative that
you know it was it was really her race to win.
(02:08):
They probably could have carried her across the finish line,
but decided not to do so for reasons that Democratic
Operatives could probably reveal to us but won't.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Right, So, David Crowley, the winner of the race.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
He had dropped out of the race, but then unsuspended
his campaign just two weeks ago, as Hung's comments got
crazier and crazier and past things that she said were revealed.
The fact that they got this guy to like get
up off the couch and come back.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Into the race.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I mean, I think you're right. It shows a Democratic
Party still has a machine. It's just curious why they
haven't used it to stop any of these other Communists
in other races, and it's probably because they agree with
them largely but just can't say so.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Yeah, it kind of reminds me of you know, it's
a flashback to the twin sixteen Democratic primary where all
these operations were happening behind the scenes with the delegates
and the super delegates and nobody really knows how it works,
but you know, they decided that Hillary was the candidate
and we're just going to accept that. And that's kind
of like the getting off the couch moment for Crowley.
(03:17):
It's like, what exactly is going on here?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Right?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
That is?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
That was the moment where I felt like Democrats just
they do something that Republicans just don't have. We don't
have that smoke filled room.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I don't feel like and I mean maybe we did
at some point in the past, but like not in my.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Adult life where I felt like the Republicans could engineer
a candidate to take over. I think every one of
the candidates that one, you know, were more popular with
actual voters on the Republican side, but on the Democrat side.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I just I.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Remember seeing Bernie Win, you know, New Hampshire and Iowa
and then not in that order, but and then go
on to lose the nomination because everybody drops and united
behind Biden.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
It was startling to watch that.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
And everybody keep keep saying that the Democrats don't have
that anymore, that they don't have the ability to stop
the DSA anymore. And I guess you're right that last
night showed otherwise.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, you have these like enormously powerful figures, and like
the media doesn't really report in full, the legacy media,
on how the Democrat operation works, but we know it's
you know, very powerful at getting people in line. I mean,
it's not difficult to recall that the entire four years
of the Biden administration, Remember the man was entirely senile, right,
(04:39):
and we didn't really even know who was running the
country at the time, but this Democrat machine was just
like pushing these narratives of Joe being somewhat functional and
then like it all changed. It turned on a dime,
you know, when they had to get rid of him.
So it just goes to show that they can really
(04:59):
keep narratives functional together, I think due to their partnership
with the media. But this is kind of like a
micro example that this. You know, the Wisconsin house race, Yeah,
there was.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
There's actually a story today in the New York Times.
There's a column about I didn't I didn't see who
I didn't click through to see who wrote it, but
questioning Trump's health, Like, come on, you spent four years
not saying one word about this guy obviously falling apart
in front of all of us, but now now they're
super worried about the president's health.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
You know, what I really enjoyed was the that the
president had to take the reporting that he had to
take a different plane because of the Iran threat against him,
and that all the journalists, I'm sure you cover this already,
but all the journalists like had to melt down about
the idea that they had to take you know that
the actual air force one because of this supposed threat,
and Jake Tapper was very upset about it.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I just I don't even understand. I have actually haven't
covered it. But that's such a good, you know thing
to point out that, did they not understand that the
Secret Service does not care about anything but the president,
Like that is the Secret Services job. They protect the president.
They're not looking to see if Jake Tapper feels okay
about being on this plane and like they weren't in danger.
(06:16):
It's just it was extra precautions because he's the president.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Get a grip exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
So the other big.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Race from last night, or I don't know if i'd
call this a big race, but Donald Trump had endorsed
in Minnesota from Minnesota Governor Mike Lindell, known as the
pillow Guy, and Trump endorsements have been doing really well
in these last couple of years, and this one not
so much.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
He lost his primary last night to Lisa Dumouth. Lindell is,
of course, refusing to concede. He says there's anomalies in
the numbers that his team is quote unquote investigating at
least Minnesotaan's Minnesota onan's what do we call them, did
the right thing and kind of voted for the more
same candidate.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
The way I see it is that Trump felt loyalty
Lindell because Lindell has done so much campaigning and just
like free media for the president. But you saw it
during during the during the primary, that he was like
he didn't like stick to any policies. He was trying
to moderate himself. I guess, so he's like, okay, I'm
(07:25):
pro obe and borders now, yeah, and like his perception.
I think in a general it would be very, very
difficult for him to win any type of general race
because he's so he's perceived as so you know, I
guess far right, however you want to categorize it. And
then he's trying to like come to the middle during
the primary. It just didn't make any sense to me.
(07:47):
I think that maybe he could have won the primary,
but there's a lot of baggage attached to Mike Lindell.
But you know, the president feels like I'm sure he
felt some sense of loyalty towards him, right.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
And he you know, Trump loves to be loved, He
loves like to have you know, to support the people
who love him. He's very he is loyal in that way,
and I think he rewards loyalty for sure. But Mike
Lindell would not have been my pick for anything. Really
any other interesting races last night or I really those
are the two that I was watching. I don't think
(08:21):
that we really had it much more going on. I know,
in Connecticut, an incumbent lost. A former Hartford mayor, Luke
Bronan defeated fourteen term Democratic Rep. John Larson in the
Connecticut one primary, and that was the big incumbent upset
story of the night. But I have to admit I
don't really know very much about those two.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah. So Michelle Tafoya, the former ESPN sideline commentator, a
really nice lady one I think in Minnesota. So I'm
excited to see if she can win the general and
become a center there. I'm sure it's an uphill battle,
but she's great and she's very authentic. I was actually
I think she left ESPN to start her own podcast
(09:04):
maybe four or five years ago, and she had me
on her podcast. We had a great conversation. She's a
very genuine person, and I think, you know, those are
the kind of people we need in public service or
you know, not just the Harvard Yale trained attorneys, but
people actually from real America who've had different jobs and
different perspectives and also kind of like share our values.
(09:25):
So looking forward to seeing what she can accomplish.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, and like you said, she's a real person, that is,
she's not like just somebody who always wanted to run.
I think she saw that she wanted to make a change,
and she, you know, ran for this. I think she's
got a shot. Or is that am I being too optimistic?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
With the state of tim Walls, you know, you never
know what's coming out of there.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
The only other one actually South Carolina, of course, had
its special Senate race last night to replace Lindsay Graham
who died. Darline Graham and Ralph Norman advanced in a
special GOP primary, neither one majority, so they're going to
have a runoff. I think, I mean, she seems like
she's in a good position to win that seat. Do
(10:10):
we like even know anything about her beliefs she released anything.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I haven't seen anything like other than from like personal
testimonies that she's like maybe slightly more lib than Lindsey
Graham was but you know, I think the President feels
one hundred percent committed to her, and I'm sure that
will help her win the primary.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
All Right, we're going to take a short break and
be right back with more on Normally. We are back
on Normally, where my guest co host today is Jordan Shachtel.
He has the really excellent substack the dossier, and he's
senior policy advisor for the Innovation Council, and he's my
good friend in Florida.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
We have a nice little crew down there. We're going
to talk about your favorite person, Anthony Fauci. I know
you love him, Jordan.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, he's a great man of history. If you've read
my work, so.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
You know, it just keeps getting worse with this guy.
I have to say, I used to think he was
just incompetent, but very early on it became clear he
was evil. But even I never thought this evil. I
never thought he would have thought that the second vaccine shot,
the second COVID vaccine shot, had a potential to cause
(11:28):
miscarriages in early pregnancy and not tell anybody, and in
fact go the opposite route and pretend that it was
all good and pregnant women should get the shots.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
That is mind boggling to me.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yeah, you know for those of us who have you know,
either gone through pregnancy directly or have had wives that
have been pregnant and you know, successfully had blessings of babies.
You know, it's in the pre covid era. You didn't like,
it was kind of shocking if a doctor were to
recommend like a pharmaceutical injection while we're pregnant. So I
(12:05):
thought the whole narrative about it being safe and effective
was very strange. And you know, women who would rightly
say that, like, hey, this vaccine came just came out,
so we don't have any even nine month studies that
show that we're definitely sure it's safe. But they were
just like steam rolls and overrules and said, like, you know,
(12:26):
for the greater good, basically, you know, sacrifice your pregnancy
so that you know, we can defeat this virus. And
it was all garbage and you know, just pressure from
public health bureaucrats and it just became such a mess
and it's it's it was. It was a real, you know,
negligent criminal act I think by Fauci and his fellow
(12:50):
bureaucrats and political appointees in the Biden administration.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
What was like?
Speaker 1 (12:55):
What was that? Why did they do that? What was
the big thing that we all needed to see?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
The vaccine?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
And I want to just say I was not at
all skeptical about the vaccine, and I regret that now
and in fact, and I give you credit because you
were the first person I knew in real life who
was like, I'm not taking it. And we were at
a party and a bunch of us were talking about
how like we couldn't wait for the vaccine to come
out so this could all be over, and you were like, Nope,
(13:20):
not doing that.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Like why why did they lie to us?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
What was the I mean, you know, I understand the
whole pharmaceutical companies pay a lot of money to these people,
and there's all of this kind of pressure, but ultimately,
like why.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
You know, as great as some pharmaceutical products are for
a variety of reasons that genuinely help people, I think
the incentives were so screwed up. You know, we had
this fomented hysteria, and the hysteria was dialed up to
you know, a multi multiple of anything that we've ever experienced,
(14:03):
at least I've ever experienced in my life. And meanwhile,
you know, you have the government pushing specifically Pfizer and
Moderna to come up with what amounts to a cure
and kind of floating this idea that they're going to
receive tens of billions, and they ended up receiving hundreds
of billions of dollars to produce a product. So there's
all these bad incentives that happened when the government has
(14:25):
already delivered billions of dollars and they need a product
that's supposedly safe, effective, and the cure and what I
think came out, and you know, people are free to debate.
This was basically like an entirely meaningless injection that probably
made a lot of people sick and ill, and it
was really unfortunate that that happened. And you know, they
(14:49):
partnered with media propagandists who you know, did not a
lot of them, you know, writing op ed columns for
both right and left wing publications, did not like reveal
disclosed conflicts of interest, So it was just a full
out propaganda blitz. And you know that I was doing
(15:10):
a lot of research on COVID at the time, so
I just I you know, thankfully kind of saw through
it and was able to, you know, help educate a
lot of people on know why we should be more
skeptical about you know, these right, these pharmaceuticals supposed it
miracle interventions. Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I feel like I just I was always pro vaccine.
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I just thought it would be another vaccine and it
wasn't at all. It wasn't at all what they said
it was. It wasn't at all what they portrayed it as,
and it broke so much trust. I mean, I just
think of my own trust. I used to believe in
health officials. I used to think that they had our
best interest and that you have an Anthony Fauci who
could not have had our best interest any less. Like
(15:50):
it's just it's not possible to get for him to
care about Americans any less than he did. It's like
it's a it's a wake up call that I did
not want to have. And I think a lot of
their Americans probably feel the same way.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yeah, there was this very revealing text in that exchange
released by Senators Johnson and Rand Paul in which Fauci
was kind of like talking about that, Hey, you know,
there could be some side effects like including like fever
and whatnot, and it could affect a pregnancy. And then
in a later text he basically said like something along
(16:22):
the lines of, but you know, COVID is a very
serious illness, and you know this can help prevent that.
So basically, like you know, they made the calculation without
informing the American people. At least my sense of this
was they made the calculation that it was better off
to kind of like sacrifice pregnancies, Like this was the
(16:43):
calculation they're making because their data showed them that maybe
this shot was effective, which I think is just a
catastrophic calculation, and they didn't provide any you know, information
to the public that they should have.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
A lot of.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
People on line right now our debate or debating whether
or not there was a spike in miscarriages because of
the shot, And to me, that's all really besides the point.
It doesn't matter if he was right or if he
was wrong. He kept information from the American people, in fact,
encouraged people to get the shot, even when he suspected
(17:20):
it might cause them real problems, including an up to miscarriages.
So to me, the debate right now whether or not
that really did end up happening. It's just a point
to me, do you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (17:34):
You know the problem with like our adversaries on the
I guess the pro that who are still believers in
the VACS is that that they can cite data. But
I think all of the data is corrupted because like
we had this giant hysteria and that you know, you
had all these hospital systems being incentivized to you know,
(17:57):
write up all these deaths to COVID and then you
know how they talk about suppose it unvaccinated versus vaccinated,
and like you know this two week window that you know,
you're not vaccinated until two weeks after you get the shot.
So there's all this weird data that really manipulated a
lot of people because you know, the CNN and MSNBC
would always you know, talk about all the deaths to
(18:19):
be a vaccinated versus unvaccinated. But yet you know, in
terms of the miscarriage stuff, Like, I'm not convinced, I
agree with you, I'm not convinced one way or another.
But yeah, the lack of for informed consent was was
the real crime here. And of course, as you know,
you know, these pharmaceutical companies are protected from liability if
(18:40):
someone's harmed by their injections. So it was just a
total total mass and Fauci should should be absolutely held
responsible for some of this.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Right, there's a doctor, Sneil dond On X. He had
this great post about how in this debate. He writes,
it is of no consequence whether the miscarriage rate after
COVID vaccination zero point eight percent or eighty percent. The
issue is that you don't take any chances during pregnancy.
There are even warnings against eating certain dairy and taking
(19:09):
a tail and all. You don't hide risks from pregnant
women or women thinking of becoming pregnant. You must disclose everything,
no matter how small you think the risk is. If
you hide stuff, you must face consequences. And he says,
you know, remember Fauci and the medical establishment were totally
okay with mandating the shot and pregnant women and threatening
them with consequences like job loss, and now they should
(19:29):
face the consequences. And the fact that they won't is
the worst part about this is that Fauci got that
pardon from Biden, has no consequences. I mean, even his
reputation is not as hurt as I think it should
be because the left and the media, I mean, they're
the same thing, keep covering up for him.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Yeah, you know, like one of the unfortunate is one
of the unfortunate things about being Jewish. But you know,
like we don't believe in this like eternal hell fire.
But I think like that would very much suit a
guy like Anthony's. We shall start, right if he's not
going to be held accountable in this life. I just
don't see, Like, I don't want to lie to your
(20:10):
audience and be like, oh yeah, we're definitely gonna arrest
him and throw him and get like I could dream
of something like that, but yeah, it's probably not going
to happen. And now, you know, the only thing we
can do is just learn lessons, you know from you know,
God forbid if you know, the same public health bureaucracy
tries to pull fast on us again, Right.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
That's the that's that's really all we can do here
is go forward with clear eyes and not let them
do this to us again. Every time there's a new
virus in the news, I see all these people being like, nope,
not falling for this again. That's the right attitude. We're
going to take a short break and come right back
with one more segment of Normally. We are back on Normally.
(20:53):
I'm Carol Markowitz. Mary Catherine ham is on vacation, and
my guest co host today is Jordan Shackdeal subscribed to
his excellent excellent substack The Dossier. He's also Senior policy
advisor for the Innovation Council. Jordan, thank you so much
for doing this. I love talking to you and I
are both Floridians. We met actually because we both moved
(21:16):
to Florida roughly around the same time. I think maybe
you got there first. And the big news in the
last few days is that Florida is now the safest
big state in America. Clay Travis, who's not a Floridian,
but you know he likes us, he highlighted that Miami, Orlando,
and Tampa combined had just twenty nine murders in the
first half of twenty twenty six, and Miami had just
(21:40):
eight murders so far in twenty twenty six, down fifty
percent from last year. In New York, crime is also
down a bit. Murders are down and Momdannie is taking
all the credit, which is hilarious, but Florida is completely
outshining it and our results are so much better. What
do you attribute that to?
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Well, I think we have you know, first and foremost,
you got to give all the credit in the world
to governor to scientists. Who actually is you know, always
incentivizing great police officers and emergency services to come to Florida.
You know, there's a policy I think that they receive
if you move from another police department and you come
to Florida and get a job here, you get like
a five thousand dollars stipend, which I think is a
(22:20):
great policy. But yeah, he's allowing you know, statewide law
enforcement to do their jobs. And I think as a
right leaning state, I mean even in our cities, we
don't have DSA officials right leading the state. Maybe it's
like the Democrat is the equivalent of like a I
don't know, I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Speak the Republican.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah, yeah, so yeah, it's interesting to see that, you know,
when you allow police to do their job, and we
have great attorney generals across the state, you know, under
the leadership of James uth Meyer that when you when
you look at these statistics quite frequently, the reason for
such heinous crime in suburban areas is that they let
(23:07):
repeat offenders off the hook, and in Florida, we just
don't do that. We put them in jail for a
long time, and it's just you know, letting law enforce
them do their job.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
What do you think, Yeah, I think it's that plus
the you know push to really get you know, really
fight illegal immigration in the state where a lot of
other states are just not doing that. I think that
that has played a big role. And your point about
the people running the cities being basically Republicans, I mean,
(23:37):
it's just a lot of people are like, oh, you know, look, look,
Tampa and Miami have democratic mayors like barely, really truly barely.
And the areas in Florida that are a problem that
do have higher crime, like Tallahassee, like Jacksonville, some of
the Orlando area, those actually have democratic mayors and that's
really what the issue has been. There are hopeful about
(24:01):
a Byron Donald's continuing what Dessantis started.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
You know, I've become more hopeful over the past few months.
I think that there's kind of a divide in the
Florida GOP. But you know, Byron has really articulated a
positive message, super pro innovation, super pro entrepreneurship, and you know,
as someone in my late thirties, you know, with a family,
(24:26):
that's kind of what I want to hear. I think
that some of his primary opponents and the primaries you know,
on August eighteenth, have fallen into this trap of just
like wanting to ban stuff and that's not really inspiring.
Like maybe it appeals more to a to an older
generation that's just like wants nostalgia, wants to go back
(24:47):
to the way that like the old Florida was. But
like I you know, when you when you want to
raise a family here and when you want to run
a successful business here, you have different priorities. And I
think that Byron, to me, like has become the guy
with that with that vision.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I really like all the candidates in that race, with
the exception of Fishback, Like I think, you know, j Collins,
Paul Runner, they're really good guys. But I also have
become sort of encouraged by what I'm hearing from Byron
Donald's I think he's going to win in a landslide,
are you I saw your tweet actually I know you
(25:27):
agree with that, right, You think he's going to get
over fifty percent.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Yeah, yeah, A little bit of it was banter that
you know, just to like trigger some some people just
just for fun, just for good times. But I think that,
you know, primaries are always crazy. I also, like, like
Jay and Paul, I think that Byron's going to get
over fifty percent for sure, and it's going to perform
very well. You know, there's like all these hyper online
people that are convinced otherwise. I think they're wrong. And
(25:53):
I think that, you know, the day that Jay and
Paul lose to Byron, I think that they'll endorse Buyer
and concede professionally. I think Fishback will go straight to Rumble.
He'll coill start his own podcasts. Not to offend anyone
at Rumble great website, but yeah, yeah, I see that there.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Will be following.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
He's just he's not charismatic enough. Like I get that
all these people are in it for the podcasting, but
you need to have a personality and he really doesn't
have that.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Yeah, he's he's leaning into like the Groyper stuff. But
you know, I think that I'm even optimistic, Like I
know that the governor and the congressman. Donald's have not
seen idee lately. I think some of it is because
of the presidential race in twenty four, but I mean, like,
I'm not even optimistic that Dal's come together. I think
that the governor will campaign for him when the alternative
(26:43):
is a Democrat, like you don't want a Democrat take
over after your eight years?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Super easy call.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I think Donald's runs away with it in the primary,
and I also think he wins in the general and
hopefully keeps leading Florida down a really positive path. I
think we have a really good thing going. And whenever
sure I am asked about it a lot, I kind
of get mocked in our group of friends for talking
about Florida so much, but if people ask me about it, okay,
I'm always super optimistic about our future because I think
(27:12):
all the people that have moved there are working together
towards something, and I feel like, you know, I think
we're in a good place. Thanks for joining me, Jordan,
Thank you for listening to Normally. Thanks for joining us
on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you could subscribe.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Anywhere you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Get in touch with us at Normallythepod at gmail dot com.
Thanks for listening and when things get weird act normally
Hi, and welcome to Normally the Show with normalist takes
from when the News gets weird.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm Carol Markowitz.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Mary Katherine ham Is on vacation, and my guest co
host today is my friend Jordan Shaktel, publisher of the
excellent substack The Dossier, and senior policy advisor for the
Innovation Council.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thanks so much for joining me, Jordan.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Yeah, thanks, Carol, A big shoes to fill, big fan
of the show.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I fully believe in you, and you know, we get
to discuss something positive. A communist lost the election last
night in Wisconsin, a communist who was slated to win
the election by double digits. The big news is Francesca Hang.
She was running for governor Wisconsin and she lost. It
was a big upset. All the polls had her leading.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
What do you think of that?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I think it goes to show the power of the
democratic machine and how the DSA branch is kind of
actively negotiated with these legacy Democrats. The most revealing thing
to me was that in the weeks leading up to
the election, both Bernie and AOC refused to endorse Hong,
and that was kind of like a piece of information
(01:13):
that I kept kind of in the back of my mind,
and it revealed itself yesterday. I think the surprise upset.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
So do you think if Bernie and AOC endorsed, she
would have won?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Because I kind of, you know, I saw somebody say
this on X earlier this morning, but weren't all of
those people who would have cared about a Bernie or
AOC endorsement already voting Hong. I saw Ben Shapiro's kind
of echoing that, also saying that you know, they didn't
endorse and she would have won.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
But I don't know, do you really think so?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
I think there was probably a decision made behind closed
doors that they weren't going to push for her, but
maybe if she could accomplish it on her own that
they would have been okay with that. But it seems
like there was some kind of negotiation that we weren't
privy to. But I mostly agree with your narrative that
you know it was it was really her race to win.
(02:08):
They probably could have carried her across the finish line,
but decided not to do so for reasons that Democratic
Operatives could probably reveal to us but won't.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Right, So, David Crowley, the winner of the race.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
He had dropped out of the race, but then unsuspended
his campaign just two weeks ago, as Hung's comments got
crazier and crazier and past things that she said were revealed.
The fact that they got this guy to like get
up off the couch and come back.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Into the race.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I mean, I think you're right. It shows a Democratic
Party still has a machine. It's just curious why they
haven't used it to stop any of these other Communists
in other races, and it's probably because they agree with
them largely but just can't say so.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Yeah, it kind of reminds me of you know, it's
a flashback to the twin sixteen Democratic primary where all
these operations were happening behind the scenes with the delegates
and the super delegates and nobody really knows how it works,
but you know, they decided that Hillary was the candidate
and we're just going to accept that. And that's kind
of like the getting off the couch moment for Crowley.
(03:17):
It's like, what exactly is going on here?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Right?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
That is?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
That was the moment where I felt like Democrats just
they do something that Republicans just don't have. We don't
have that smoke filled room.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I don't feel like and I mean maybe we did
at some point in the past, but like not in my.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Adult life where I felt like the Republicans could engineer
a candidate to take over. I think every one of
the candidates that one, you know, were more popular with
actual voters on the Republican side, but on the Democrat side.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I just I.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Remember seeing Bernie Win, you know, New Hampshire and Iowa
and then not in that order, but and then go
on to lose the nomination because everybody drops and united
behind Biden.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
It was startling to watch that.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
And everybody keep keep saying that the Democrats don't have
that anymore, that they don't have the ability to stop
the DSA anymore. And I guess you're right that last
night showed otherwise.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, you have these like enormously powerful figures, and like
the media doesn't really report in full, the legacy media,
on how the Democrat operation works, but we know it's
you know, very powerful at getting people in line. I mean,
it's not difficult to recall that the entire four years
of the Biden administration, Remember the man was entirely senile, right,
(04:39):
and we didn't really even know who was running the
country at the time, but this Democrat machine was just
like pushing these narratives of Joe being somewhat functional and
then like it all changed. It turned on a dime,
you know, when they had to get rid of him.
So it just goes to show that they can really
(04:59):
keep narratives functional together, I think due to their partnership
with the media. But this is kind of like a
micro example that this. You know, the Wisconsin house race, Yeah,
there was.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
There's actually a story today in the New York Times.
There's a column about I didn't I didn't see who
I didn't click through to see who wrote it, but
questioning Trump's health, Like, come on, you spent four years
not saying one word about this guy obviously falling apart
in front of all of us, but now now they're
super worried about the president's health.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
You know, what I really enjoyed was the that the
president had to take the reporting that he had to
take a different plane because of the Iran threat against him,
and that all the journalists, I'm sure you cover this already,
but all the journalists like had to melt down about
the idea that they had to take you know that
the actual air force one because of this supposed threat,
and Jake Tapper was very upset about it.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I just I don't even understand. I have actually haven't
covered it. But that's such a good, you know thing
to point out that, did they not understand that the
Secret Service does not care about anything but the president,
Like that is the Secret Services job. They protect the president.
They're not looking to see if Jake Tapper feels okay
about being on this plane and like they weren't in danger.
(06:16):
It's just it was extra precautions because he's the president.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Get a grip exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
So the other big.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Race from last night, or I don't know if i'd
call this a big race, but Donald Trump had endorsed
in Minnesota from Minnesota Governor Mike Lindell, known as the
pillow Guy, and Trump endorsements have been doing really well
in these last couple of years, and this one not
so much.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
He lost his primary last night to Lisa Dumouth. Lindell is,
of course, refusing to concede. He says there's anomalies in
the numbers that his team is quote unquote investigating at
least Minnesotaan's Minnesota onan's what do we call them, did
the right thing and kind of voted for the more
same candidate.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
The way I see it is that Trump felt loyalty
Lindell because Lindell has done so much campaigning and just
like free media for the president. But you saw it
during during the during the primary, that he was like
he didn't like stick to any policies. He was trying
to moderate himself. I guess, so he's like, okay, I'm
(07:25):
pro obe and borders now, yeah, and like his perception.
I think in a general it would be very, very
difficult for him to win any type of general race
because he's so he's perceived as so you know, I
guess far right, however you want to categorize it. And
then he's trying to like come to the middle during
the primary. It just didn't make any sense to me.
(07:47):
I think that maybe he could have won the primary,
but there's a lot of baggage attached to Mike Lindell.
But you know, the president feels like I'm sure he
felt some sense of loyalty towards him, right.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
And he you know, Trump loves to be loved, He
loves like to have you know, to support the people
who love him. He's very he is loyal in that way,
and I think he rewards loyalty for sure. But Mike
Lindell would not have been my pick for anything. Really
any other interesting races last night or I really those
are the two that I was watching. I don't think
(08:21):
that we really had it much more going on. I know,
in Connecticut, an incumbent lost. A former Hartford mayor, Luke
Bronan defeated fourteen term Democratic Rep. John Larson in the
Connecticut one primary, and that was the big incumbent upset
story of the night. But I have to admit I
don't really know very much about those two.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah. So Michelle Tafoya, the former ESPN sideline commentator, a
really nice lady one I think in Minnesota. So I'm
excited to see if she can win the general and
become a center there. I'm sure it's an uphill battle,
but she's great and she's very authentic. I was actually
I think she left ESPN to start her own podcast
(09:04):
maybe four or five years ago, and she had me
on her podcast. We had a great conversation. She's a
very genuine person, and I think, you know, those are
the kind of people we need in public service or
you know, not just the Harvard Yale trained attorneys, but
people actually from real America who've had different jobs and
different perspectives and also kind of like share our values.
(09:25):
So looking forward to seeing what she can accomplish.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, and like you said, she's a real person, that is,
she's not like just somebody who always wanted to run.
I think she saw that she wanted to make a change,
and she, you know, ran for this. I think she's
got a shot. Or is that am I being too optimistic?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
With the state of tim Walls, you know, you never
know what's coming out of there.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
The only other one actually South Carolina, of course, had
its special Senate race last night to replace Lindsay Graham
who died. Darline Graham and Ralph Norman advanced in a
special GOP primary, neither one majority, so they're going to
have a runoff. I think, I mean, she seems like
she's in a good position to win that seat. Do
(10:10):
we like even know anything about her beliefs she released anything.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I haven't seen anything like other than from like personal
testimonies that she's like maybe slightly more lib than Lindsey
Graham was but you know, I think the President feels
one hundred percent committed to her, and I'm sure that
will help her win the primary.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
All Right, we're going to take a short break and
be right back with more on Normally. We are back
on Normally, where my guest co host today is Jordan Shachtel.
He has the really excellent substack the dossier, and he's
senior policy advisor for the Innovation Council, and he's my
good friend in Florida.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
We have a nice little crew down there. We're going
to talk about your favorite person, Anthony Fauci. I know
you love him, Jordan.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, he's a great man of history. If you've read
my work, so.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
You know, it just keeps getting worse with this guy.
I have to say, I used to think he was
just incompetent, but very early on it became clear he
was evil. But even I never thought this evil. I
never thought he would have thought that the second vaccine shot,
the second COVID vaccine shot, had a potential to cause
(11:28):
miscarriages in early pregnancy and not tell anybody, and in
fact go the opposite route and pretend that it was
all good and pregnant women should get the shots.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
That is mind boggling to me.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yeah, you know for those of us who have you know,
either gone through pregnancy directly or have had wives that
have been pregnant and you know, successfully had blessings of babies.
You know, it's in the pre covid era. You didn't like,
it was kind of shocking if a doctor were to
recommend like a pharmaceutical injection while we're pregnant. So I
(12:05):
thought the whole narrative about it being safe and effective
was very strange. And you know, women who would rightly
say that, like, hey, this vaccine came just came out,
so we don't have any even nine month studies that
show that we're definitely sure it's safe. But they were
just like steam rolls and overrules and said, like, you know,
(12:26):
for the greater good, basically, you know, sacrifice your pregnancy
so that you know, we can defeat this virus. And
it was all garbage and you know, just pressure from
public health bureaucrats and it just became such a mess
and it's it's it was. It was a real, you know,
negligent criminal act I think by Fauci and his fellow
(12:50):
bureaucrats and political appointees in the Biden administration.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
What was like?
Speaker 1 (12:55):
What was that? Why did they do that? What was
the big thing that we all needed to see?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
The vaccine?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
And I want to just say I was not at
all skeptical about the vaccine, and I regret that now
and in fact, and I give you credit because you
were the first person I knew in real life who
was like, I'm not taking it. And we were at
a party and a bunch of us were talking about
how like we couldn't wait for the vaccine to come
out so this could all be over, and you were like, Nope,
(13:20):
not doing that.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Like why why did they lie to us?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
What was the I mean, you know, I understand the
whole pharmaceutical companies pay a lot of money to these people,
and there's all of this kind of pressure, but ultimately,
like why.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
You know, as great as some pharmaceutical products are for
a variety of reasons that genuinely help people, I think
the incentives were so screwed up. You know, we had
this fomented hysteria, and the hysteria was dialed up to
you know, a multi multiple of anything that we've ever experienced,
(14:03):
at least I've ever experienced in my life. And meanwhile,
you know, you have the government pushing specifically Pfizer and
Moderna to come up with what amounts to a cure
and kind of floating this idea that they're going to
receive tens of billions, and they ended up receiving hundreds
of billions of dollars to produce a product. So there's
all these bad incentives that happened when the government has
(14:25):
already delivered billions of dollars and they need a product
that's supposedly safe, effective, and the cure and what I
think came out, and you know, people are free to debate.
This was basically like an entirely meaningless injection that probably
made a lot of people sick and ill, and it
was really unfortunate that that happened. And you know, they
(14:49):
partnered with media propagandists who you know, did not a
lot of them, you know, writing op ed columns for
both right and left wing publications, did not like reveal
disclosed conflicts of interest, So it was just a full
out propaganda blitz. And you know that I was doing
(15:10):
a lot of research on COVID at the time, so
I just I you know, thankfully kind of saw through
it and was able to, you know, help educate a
lot of people on know why we should be more
skeptical about you know, these right, these pharmaceuticals supposed it
miracle interventions. Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I feel like I just I was always pro vaccine.
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I just thought it would be another vaccine and it
wasn't at all. It wasn't at all what they said
it was. It wasn't at all what they portrayed it as,
and it broke so much trust. I mean, I just
think of my own trust. I used to believe in
health officials. I used to think that they had our
best interest and that you have an Anthony Fauci who
could not have had our best interest any less. Like
(15:50):
it's just it's not possible to get for him to
care about Americans any less than he did. It's like
it's a it's a wake up call that I did
not want to have. And I think a lot of
their Americans probably feel the same way.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yeah, there was this very revealing text in that exchange
released by Senators Johnson and Rand Paul in which Fauci
was kind of like talking about that, Hey, you know,
there could be some side effects like including like fever
and whatnot, and it could affect a pregnancy. And then
in a later text he basically said like something along
(16:22):
the lines of, but you know, COVID is a very
serious illness, and you know this can help prevent that.
So basically, like you know, they made the calculation without
informing the American people. At least my sense of this
was they made the calculation that it was better off
to kind of like sacrifice pregnancies, Like this was the
(16:43):
calculation they're making because their data showed them that maybe
this shot was effective, which I think is just a
catastrophic calculation, and they didn't provide any you know, information
to the public that they should have.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
A lot of.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
People on line right now our debate or debating whether
or not there was a spike in miscarriages because of
the shot, And to me, that's all really besides the point.
It doesn't matter if he was right or if he
was wrong. He kept information from the American people, in fact,
encouraged people to get the shot, even when he suspected
(17:20):
it might cause them real problems, including an up to miscarriages.
So to me, the debate right now whether or not
that really did end up happening. It's just a point
to me, do you agree with that?
Speaker 3 (17:34):
You know the problem with like our adversaries on the
I guess the pro that who are still believers in
the VACS is that that they can cite data. But
I think all of the data is corrupted because like
we had this giant hysteria and that you know, you
had all these hospital systems being incentivized to you know,
(17:57):
write up all these deaths to COVID and then you
know how they talk about suppose it unvaccinated versus vaccinated,
and like you know this two week window that you know,
you're not vaccinated until two weeks after you get the shot.
So there's all this weird data that really manipulated a
lot of people because you know, the CNN and MSNBC
would always you know, talk about all the deaths to
(18:19):
be a vaccinated versus unvaccinated. But yet you know, in
terms of the miscarriage stuff, Like, I'm not convinced, I
agree with you, I'm not convinced one way or another.
But yeah, the lack of for informed consent was was
the real crime here. And of course, as you know,
you know, these pharmaceutical companies are protected from liability if
(18:40):
someone's harmed by their injections. So it was just a
total total mass and Fauci should should be absolutely held
responsible for some of this.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Right, there's a doctor, Sneil dond On X. He had
this great post about how in this debate. He writes,
it is of no consequence whether the miscarriage rate after
COVID vaccination zero point eight percent or eighty percent. The
issue is that you don't take any chances during pregnancy.
There are even warnings against eating certain dairy and taking
(19:09):
a tail and all. You don't hide risks from pregnant
women or women thinking of becoming pregnant. You must disclose everything,
no matter how small you think the risk is. If
you hide stuff, you must face consequences. And he says,
you know, remember Fauci and the medical establishment were totally
okay with mandating the shot and pregnant women and threatening
them with consequences like job loss, and now they should
(19:29):
face the consequences. And the fact that they won't is
the worst part about this is that Fauci got that
pardon from Biden, has no consequences. I mean, even his
reputation is not as hurt as I think it should
be because the left and the media, I mean, they're
the same thing, keep covering up for him.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Yeah, you know, like one of the unfortunate is one
of the unfortunate things about being Jewish. But you know,
like we don't believe in this like eternal hell fire.
But I think like that would very much suit a
guy like Anthony's. We shall start, right if he's not
going to be held accountable in this life. I just
don't see, Like, I don't want to lie to your
(20:10):
audience and be like, oh yeah, we're definitely gonna arrest
him and throw him and get like I could dream
of something like that, but yeah, it's probably not going
to happen. And now, you know, the only thing we
can do is just learn lessons, you know from you know,
God forbid if you know, the same public health bureaucracy
tries to pull fast on us again, Right.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
That's the that's that's really all we can do here
is go forward with clear eyes and not let them
do this to us again. Every time there's a new
virus in the news, I see all these people being like, nope,
not falling for this again. That's the right attitude. We're
going to take a short break and come right back
with one more segment of Normally. We are back on Normally.
(20:53):
I'm Carol Markowitz. Mary Catherine ham is on vacation, and
my guest co host today is Jordan Shackdeal subscribed to
his excellent excellent substack The Dossier. He's also Senior policy
advisor for the Innovation Council. Jordan, thank you so much
for doing this. I love talking to you and I
are both Floridians. We met actually because we both moved
(21:16):
to Florida roughly around the same time. I think maybe
you got there first. And the big news in the
last few days is that Florida is now the safest
big state in America. Clay Travis, who's not a Floridian,
but you know he likes us, he highlighted that Miami, Orlando,
and Tampa combined had just twenty nine murders in the
first half of twenty twenty six, and Miami had just
(21:40):
eight murders so far in twenty twenty six, down fifty
percent from last year. In New York, crime is also
down a bit. Murders are down and Momdannie is taking
all the credit, which is hilarious, but Florida is completely
outshining it and our results are so much better. What
do you attribute that to?
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Well, I think we have you know, first and foremost,
you got to give all the credit in the world
to governor to scientists. Who actually is you know, always
incentivizing great police officers and emergency services to come to Florida.
You know, there's a policy I think that they receive
if you move from another police department and you come
to Florida and get a job here, you get like
a five thousand dollars stipend, which I think is a
(22:20):
great policy. But yeah, he's allowing you know, statewide law
enforcement to do their jobs. And I think as a
right leaning state, I mean even in our cities, we
don't have DSA officials right leading the state. Maybe it's
like the Democrat is the equivalent of like a I
don't know, I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Speak the Republican.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah, yeah, so yeah, it's interesting to see that, you know,
when you allow police to do their job, and we
have great attorney generals across the state, you know, under
the leadership of James uth Meyer that when you when
you look at these statistics quite frequently, the reason for
such heinous crime in suburban areas is that they let
(23:07):
repeat offenders off the hook, and in Florida, we just
don't do that. We put them in jail for a
long time, and it's just you know, letting law enforce
them do their job.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
What do you think, Yeah, I think it's that plus
the you know push to really get you know, really
fight illegal immigration in the state where a lot of
other states are just not doing that. I think that
that has played a big role. And your point about
the people running the cities being basically Republicans, I mean,
(23:37):
it's just a lot of people are like, oh, you know, look, look,
Tampa and Miami have democratic mayors like barely, really truly barely.
And the areas in Florida that are a problem that
do have higher crime, like Tallahassee, like Jacksonville, some of
the Orlando area, those actually have democratic mayors and that's
really what the issue has been. There are hopeful about
(24:01):
a Byron Donald's continuing what Dessantis started.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
You know, I've become more hopeful over the past few months.
I think that there's kind of a divide in the
Florida GOP. But you know, Byron has really articulated a
positive message, super pro innovation, super pro entrepreneurship, and you know,
as someone in my late thirties, you know, with a family,
(24:26):
that's kind of what I want to hear. I think
that some of his primary opponents and the primaries you know,
on August eighteenth, have fallen into this trap of just
like wanting to ban stuff and that's not really inspiring.
Like maybe it appeals more to a to an older
generation that's just like wants nostalgia, wants to go back
(24:47):
to the way that like the old Florida was. But
like I you know, when you when you want to
raise a family here and when you want to run
a successful business here, you have different priorities. And I
think that Byron, to me, like has become the guy
with that with that vision.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I really like all the candidates in that race, with
the exception of Fishback, Like I think, you know, j Collins,
Paul Runner, they're really good guys. But I also have
become sort of encouraged by what I'm hearing from Byron
Donald's I think he's going to win in a landslide,
are you I saw your tweet actually I know you
(25:27):
agree with that, right, You think he's going to get
over fifty percent.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Yeah, yeah, A little bit of it was banter that
you know, just to like trigger some some people just
just for fun, just for good times. But I think that,
you know, primaries are always crazy. I also, like, like
Jay and Paul, I think that Byron's going to get
over fifty percent for sure, and it's going to perform
very well. You know, there's like all these hyper online
people that are convinced otherwise. I think they're wrong. And
(25:53):
I think that, you know, the day that Jay and
Paul lose to Byron, I think that they'll endorse Buyer
and concede professionally. I think Fishback will go straight to Rumble.
He'll coill start his own podcasts. Not to offend anyone
at Rumble great website, but yeah, yeah, I see that there.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Will be following.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
He's just he's not charismatic enough. Like I get that
all these people are in it for the podcasting, but
you need to have a personality and he really doesn't
have that.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Yeah, he's he's leaning into like the Groyper stuff. But
you know, I think that I'm even optimistic, Like I
know that the governor and the congressman. Donald's have not
seen idee lately. I think some of it is because
of the presidential race in twenty four, but I mean, like,
I'm not even optimistic that Dal's come together. I think
that the governor will campaign for him when the alternative
(26:43):
is a Democrat, like you don't want a Democrat take
over after your eight years?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Super easy call.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I think Donald's runs away with it in the primary,
and I also think he wins in the general and
hopefully keeps leading Florida down a really positive path. I
think we have a really good thing going. And whenever
sure I am asked about it a lot, I kind
of get mocked in our group of friends for talking
about Florida so much, but if people ask me about it, okay,
I'm always super optimistic about our future because I think
(27:12):
all the people that have moved there are working together
towards something, and I feel like, you know, I think
we're in a good place. Thanks for joining me, Jordan,
Thank you for listening to Normally. Thanks for joining us
on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you could subscribe.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Anywhere you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Get in touch with us at Normallythepod at gmail dot com.
Thanks for listening and when things get weird act normally
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