On this episode of Normally, Mary Katharine Ham and Karol Markowicz break down the latest headlines the media doesn’t always revisit—and why the details matter.
They revisit major immigration stories that sparked national outrage, including new developments in high-profile deportation cases, misleading ICE detention claims, and what recent court rulings reveal about due process and enforcement. The hosts examine how narratives evolve—and why follow-ups often tell a very different story.
Then, they dive into the growing push from blue states to implement controversial “exit taxes” targeting wealthy residents. As billionaires and major companies continue relocating to states like Florida and Texas, Mary Katharine and Karol explore the economic consequences, political motivations, and whether these policies could backfire.
Plus, a broader conversation on capitalism vs. government control—from failed policy experiments to why basic economic principles are often ignored—and what that means for everyday Americans.
Follow Clay & Buck on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/clayandbuck
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yeah, back only to chill a little more.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
It's weird. I am Mary Cathern. I'm Karl Marco.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
It's how's it going, Mary Catherine?
Speaker 3 (00:14):
It's going all right.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
I took the kids on a the two littles on
a preschool field trip this morning.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
So nice.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Where'd they go?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
A little walk to the library, learn how to treat
your books? Get a little too.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, that's really cute.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
I missed the young the young years where you got
to come along on field trips. They do not let
you come along on field trips as they get older.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Well, I have learned that having this, having this second
set of kids as mine become tweens and pushed me
away right and teens and whatnot. That on the way home,
I played my littles free bird and taught them to
say play some skinnered and yellow window, and they were
really game for it, whereas my ten and twelve year
old'll be like, what.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Are you doing. I remember teaching that very important lesson
to my children as well, and my husband who had
never heard of it, like I was like, yeah, you
have to scream out freebird at random shows that are
not Leonard skinnerd so like sounds skinnerd.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah, my four year old, very convincing. She's got it
in her soul.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Good.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, it's really It's an important trait to have. So
I'm going to Buck Sexton's having a book party tonight
in South Florida. His book Manufacturing Delusion New York Times bestseller.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
It's really good. Like I can't tell you I finished it.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'm about halfway through, which for me is like a
miracle because I never never get to read it.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
But it's really good. It's very, very well written.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
You can completely hear Buck in it, you know, like
those political books you read and.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
You can't hear the author at all. It just sounds
like AI. But before AI was.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Really a thing, you could hear books like Turner phrases
and just the way he speaks.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
It's excellent. Manufacturing Delusions. People very nice at it.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Well, Manufacturing Delusion. I'm excited to check out that book.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
We have speaking of delusions manufacturing thereof we have some
immigration check ins, because the thing about the immigration narrative
is that if you don't check back on every story,
you're going to miss some pretty major developments. Because there
is a tendency of the press which is very like
(02:31):
basically pro open borders to say that any pickup of any.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Person is some huge violation.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
As you know, kilmar Abrego Garcia has like has like
a year and a half of due process now going on,
as did Mark Khalil and uh. In this update, we
have appeals court orders judge to end contempt investigation of
Trump administration deportation flights. So this is a year ago
(03:00):
about when the Trump administration sent some Venezuelan immigrants migrants
out of the country and they were illegally here and
basically there was a fight over when they needed to
come back because the judge Boasburg, who's a DC judge,
decided that they needed to come back and whether the
administration had violated a court order when they continued in
(03:24):
flight out to wherever they sent them. Well this decision,
he then decided to hold them in contempt and to
do this criminal contempt investigation, and a higher court says
the legal error at the heart of these criminal contempt
proceedings demonstrates why further investigation by the district court is
an abuse of discretion. One of the judges wrote, criminal
(03:47):
contempt is available only for the violation of order. That
is clear and specific Bosburg's March twenty twenty five order
did not clearly and specifically bar the government from transferring
plaintiffs into Salvador and custody. The ACLU value to continue
fighting this.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Just like the ACLUS on this huh.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Just like they actively fought for all of us during COVID,
remember I do remember.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Very very well.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Yeah, so that didn't work out for Bohsburg, as several.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Of his orders have not, and it will go to
a higher court again.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
So it's a bit of a white pill, as the
kids say, because it's a three judge panel and they're
in DC, this US Court of Appeals, you kind of
don't think they're going to vote in the direction of
Trump no matter what. And the fact that they did is, look,
it's it's encouraging. It means that there are some judges
out there that are not going to let their political
(04:40):
opinions weigh their you know, decisions.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
So white white pill.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I like it well.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
And also again I I am I want to be
careful of violating people's civil rights.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
And also not every.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Single illegal immigrants, oh yeah, needs an expedited to the top,
super ridiculously thoroughs three year process before we can get
them out of the country.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
That is not a workable situation. That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Frankly, many of the people who have gotten their cases
heard way up high and quickly get better service in
the US justice system than Americans do.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Right, it's us that our system against us.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Really, it's saying like, you have the system that we're
going to completely jam up with these cases. And again,
the idea that every person who entered illegally during during
the Biden years should have their day in court is
it's going to take, you know, decades, And that's entirely
the point.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
By the way, the tell is that at the end
of the line, like when Kilmar Alberto Garcia has had
due process like every single kind you could possibly imagine,
because he already had tons of process before they tried
to get him out after another year of process, the
people who want open borders are still like, no, you can't, Yeah,
you can't.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I feel like we can't.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, it's not it's actually not the due process that
they have a problem with. It's the policy of not
having open borders. And it always bothered me so much
and it continues to bother me that Democrats largely agree
with open borders, but could never ever run on it,
and so they do it this way. It's like have
some you know, I'm not going to say, you know
(06:28):
the male anatomy, but.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Run on what you actually believe.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
It just always seems like Democrats run to their right
and Republicans also run to their right, and everybody governs
to the left.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yes, it's annoying. Another great update. Do you remember the
story about an Illinois woman who claims she was detained.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
By ice for three hours and she's a She's a
US citizen, So we were like, Okay, I'm listening.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Happen.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Yeah, Well, an Illinois woman who claims she was detained
by Ice for nearly two days was actually relaxing at
a hotel getting SPA treatments, according to a one million
dollar defamation suit filed by a county sheriff. US citizen
Sunny Knakvie twenty eight, gained national attention last month when
she and a band of supporters, including Cook County Illinois
Commissioner Kevin Morrison, publicly insisted she was unlawfully detained by
(07:21):
Ice officers for roughly forty three hours. But no, it
turns out they have a surveillance of her in a hotel, but.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
That they had to go through all of this to
prove that this woman was lying and trying to say
that ICE is detaining American citizens. I remember the story
so well because I remember all the people on my
Facebook feed who fell for it. And look, they're detaining
American citizens now, and I have like, you know, acquaintances
and friends who are like, I travel with the passport
now because of this kind of thing, and it's like,
(07:53):
you really don't have to actually, so.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Yes, mss Knockfee departed CBP within ninety minutes of her
arrival in the United States. D just wrote at the time,
and it looks like there is evidence that she checked
into the Hampton Inn in sweets in Rosemont, Illinois.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
I mean, you can do a little better over the
SPA if you're already faking being detained.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I don't know that I would go to a Hampton din. Yeah,
but all right, all right, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
You and I can definitely pick a different spot to
pretend to have, you know, been detained too.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Yes, they also obtained texts from her to someone else,
so she may have been spying not at the hotel,
because I agree with you Hampton and see a weird choice.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
May I use your card to order some food?
Speaker 4 (08:38):
She asked someone during these forty three hours going to
check out the gym. In like five, she texts someone,
may I use your card to pay my spa lady?
These are all during the period in which she's supposed
to be detained.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Apparently, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
With all the crime documentaries, people still don't know how
to really commit crimes. They just put everything in a text.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
The whole thing where you shouldn't put these things in
writing has escaped two generations of America.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Baffling because you feel like they should know by now,
but they still don't.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
They just don't. Right, She's a twenty eight year old woman.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
You know she watches True Crime girl god right, And yeah,
she's wearing the same clothes in the the reunification photos
that went public as she is in the hotel wandering
around seemingly not being detained. So look, ma'am, it's just
always worth checking in on these things. I have another
update by the way from Fairfax County where if you'll remember,
(09:35):
an adult if you guys have I can't remember, we've
addressed this in the show, But an adult illegal immigrant
who has enrolled in Fairfax County schools. At a high school,
had been accused by some I believe about a dozen
female students of groping them in pretty serious ways in
the hallways. And of course in Fairfax County because we
have a Soros funded lefty prosecutor, Steve Discano, who doesn't
(09:59):
like to prosecute people, particularly illegal immigrants, because they might
face deportation and ice consequences for that. They of course,
uh like, didn't really try to get him in trouble,
downgraded his accusations or charges, and then he's going to
be like just doing his thing again.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
That's horrific.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Actually, this is the place that you pay all your
tax money for.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
If you break the law to come here and then
you break some more laws, you're treated better than somebody
who's from here.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
That's and the local reporter Nick Manok also dug up
on Discano's website an explicit expression of that. He said
on the on the site he since wiped it clean.
He said on the site, it is not a fair
adjudication in our justice system if someone faces more consequences
due to their crime that they committed the other crime
(10:56):
they committed and therefore because of that, he cuts back
on the the punishing of the crime.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
You know, I'm not going to say it every episode,
but if you wanted to move to Florida, we are
here for you, Mary Catherine keeps happening. You know who
else is really good at following up on the stories
is Bill Malugin. I just I think he deserves all
the shout outs. He's always on top of these stories.
(11:22):
He's never letting them just slide, and he's always like,
remember this big story, this is how it turned out.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
I think he's just excellent.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Yes, he does a great job. He and Griftenkins were
all over the Biden era and they have continued to
follow us. They know exactly how these things happen and
what the really bad stories look like.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
And by the way, I saw this stat the other day.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
This was from Cato, so they were reporting it as
a negative, but it's the number of asylum seekers coming
to the border because of the policy which has changed
from literally anyone ye, yeah, from some more restrictive come
on into don't like yeah, that number is way way down,
(12:04):
which again I am somebody in the past who would
have been like, yes, asylum seekers, I want to be
able to take them.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
But when you abuse the asylum system as Biden did,
to make it into anyone and everyone, I then become
much more skeptical and say, hey, as Trump might say,
let's stop while we figure out what the hell is
going on.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, yeah, you should have a process. It's really not
that complicated. I you know, I was that asylum seeker.
There was a process in place, we had to do
certain things. I mean, I don't think that's a crazy
thing to ask for. And the thing is that that position,
our position, where you know, asylum seekers should be able
to apply for, you know, to be refugees in the
(12:46):
United States, that's such an unpopular position now because of
the last few years of ahem, Americans are over it,
and it's unfortunate people who believe in legal migration.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
You abuse the system and people lose trust in the system,
and then you get backlash against the things you want.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
I feel like we've seen this somewhere before. Indeed, all right,
we're going.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
To take a short break and be right back with
more on normally. We are back on normally, where a
growing number of blue states are trying to charge wealth
exit taxes, and it's really mind boggling, because again, I
think we've seen this somewhere before. The whole putting up
(13:27):
a wall so people can't leave. It feels very familiar. Actually,
California has this Billionaire Tax Act that is potentially going
to be on the ballot. We've talked about this one
before because it's such a crazy tax. It would be
a retroactive five percent tax on your total net worth,
not on your income, on your total net worth, so
(13:47):
it could be your house is your total net worth,
it could be anything, and you would have to pay
five percent of that. Some people wouldn't have the money
to pay that because their money is in other things.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
So a lot of billionaires.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Are making their way to the exit. California has lost
a couple of really big name billionaires like Sir Gabrinn
and some other ones. And the thing is that they
don't even know if this is going to get on
the ballot, and then if it does get on the ballot,
they don't know that the governor is not going to
veto But as we've talked about on the show, these
people don't trust their fellow voters not to get it
(14:20):
on the ballot, and they don't trust their politicians not
to enact it.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
So they're leaving.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Multimillionaires are leaving two because they understand what's going to happen.
As soon as the billionaires are out the door, who's
five percent are they going to try to take? It's
going to be the next tax bracket down now. Washington
State they passed a nine point nine percent tax on
incomes over a million dollars, and they're now saying that
maybe they're going to have this kind of wealth exit tax.
(14:48):
And it happens, you know, happens right around the time
that Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz, he had an estimated net
worth of over three billion dollars, he announced his move
to Florida, which lot of these guys are doing. And
I'm always here to say, please vote correctly when you
get here. You did this to your own state, and
maybe don't do this to our state.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Yeah, to your point, Carol, if you are needing to
economically checkpoint Charlie, your people and not let them escape
the burning economic situation you have created, there's something wrong.
You should look at yourself. You should look at your policies.
You should not look at the people who are leaving
and blame them. And this is this seems to be
(15:32):
a frequent left wing contention, is like, there can't possibly
be anything wrong with what we're doing.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Right, Like on the date when I someday.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Moved to Florida, no one in northern Virginia will be like,
did we get it wrong?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
No one thinks that.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
They think, how can we get them on the way
out if they're going to leave? And the thing that's
so funny to me is that, as we mentioned before,
HOC in particular in New York treated these people and
treats them while they live there. Yeah, it's such open contempt.
And then you're surprised when they want to leave. And
(16:11):
then as they're leaving, you remind them, yes, we hate
you and we want your stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
But once you've left, she's like, you owe it to
us to come back, and everyone's like, I'm never coming back.
What are you even talking about. I don't understand how
any of this is constitutional.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I don't get it. I'm not a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Therefore, I only understand the big picture of it that
taking somebody's percentage of their net worth in general, I
don't understand how that's constitutional because it's not realized gains.
It's already been taxed when it was your income. I
just don't get that at all. But then also confiscating
(16:50):
money from people who want to move interstate just makes
no sense to me.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
It's like an estate tax, except you haven't died. You're
just going right for state. And the estate tax also
is unfair because all of that income has been taxed
as well before you die. But again, getting you on
the way out, it's just you know, the way out
the mortal coil versus the way out of the state.
But I just at some point, can't people see how
(17:17):
much their governments hate them. I like, in a I
experienced this during COVID, where it was just like, wow,
this school board really is not just not helping parents,
is actively opposed to parents.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
They dislike us, they don't want.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
To have anything to do with us, and in fact,
we'll just like our children delivered unto them.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
For the indoctrination. I mean, it's just like, yeah, okay, so.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
It's I mean, to get no services for what you're
getting is you know, it is an added bonus of that.
The other thing is that, of course these people who
are leaving, they don't just leave, they take their companies
with them, So you're not just losing one rich guy,
You're potentially losing much more. In an article about Howard
(18:10):
Schultz leaving for Florida, they say that he is moving
his entire company out of state.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
I don't know if that's truths.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I've only seen it in this one news piece, but
you know that easily could be true. Other high profile
companies relocating Exit Mobile apparently moving from New Jersey to Texas,
Uber from California, also in Texas, Yamaha Motor from California
to Georgia, and then JP Morgan CEO. I mean, they
haven't moved yet, but he keeps taking shots at New
(18:39):
York and being like.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
We could move, because you definitely could. He made the comment.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
The truth is that while New York City has much
going for it, particularly for financial companies because of extraordinary talent,
it also has the highest city in state corporate taxes
and the highest individual income and state taxes.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
It's doable to move a financial firm. People are doing it.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I mean, wes Palm is becoming a financial hub in Florida.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
These states are really going to lose out.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
And again, for me, I'm welcoming to all these companies
that are coming, But understand why you left.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
You did not leave because they got to left. They
were that the whole time. They just had no power.
So make your decisions, vote correctly. Don't do here what
you did there.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Because eventually there will be nowhere to escape to. That's
really the issue.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
But I do, I think, and when every time I'm
Nannie talks about it, you can tell there is this
cognitive dissonance where they know they need the money from
these icky billionaires and millionaires, so like, I know I
need your money, right, But somehow in their heads that
money simply is and was stolen from someone else or
ill gotten in some way. Look, all companies have some
(19:56):
sort of ethical laps at some point. I'm not arguing
that they're.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Perfect, but this money isn't ill gotten.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
Right.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Bezos has a bunch of money because he gives a
bunch of services to a bunch of people. And I
would wager that everyone who complains about him has in
the last three days got something from him.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
That's right, revolutionized the way you live your life and
can get products at your home. So that's why he
has that money. To Mom Donnie, who grew up with
wels from his parents and doesn't really think about how
it takes risks and smarts and real bravery to create
these things. He just thinks it's there, it's there, and
(20:33):
now it's ours. It's there and now it's ours, just
like mommy's money was. And that's not how it works. Yeah,
but the whole step.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah. He actually talked about Margaret Thatcher when talking about
his new city run grocery store that's going to cost
like ten times the amount of any other grocery store.
And it's interesting because you know, Margaret Thatcher was the
daughter of a grocer.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
He's talking about.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Somebody who actually understands the problems and how to solve them.
And he said something like, you know, it takes to
socialists to clean up the problems.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
It's like, I know, I've seen that happen.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
Yeah, it's actually never But okay, if you say away,
if at some point he can stand up and say, look,
this bag of Royce costs less at this grocery store
than at this government grocery store than.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
The capitalist one. Let me just inform you that.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
That government grocery store doesn't have to pay rent. There's
a huge part of its operating costs.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
The good guy us.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
And it's gonna cost thirty million dollars for one grocery store.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Everyone who's ever lived in New York is like, how
is that even possible? It's you can buy a grocery
store for like five million. What's happening here? James Morrow,
he's an excellent guy at the Daily Telegraph. He commented
about that years from now there'll be an iconic photograph
of mom Donnie visiting a supermarket in the American heartland
(21:54):
being stunned by the selection of goods.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
It's very funny.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I kind of can't get enough of these. Jesse.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Kelly is like, I'm legit so excited to watch this
whole predictable story play out. It's like watching Old Yeller
for the twentieth time. You know what's coming, but you're
still watching.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Oh, by the way, free buses, we're informed will not
happen this year, just way. My friend, my friend Kelly
and I always say the problem with the Invisible Hand
is that it's simply too invisible because all these idiot
left us.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
You're like, I've got an idea. Can we orchestrate away
to get a bunch of products into one store that
everyone needs and have like the right amounts and price
them at the right point.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
It's like, yes, we have a system for that. Capitalism
does it almost magically over here, and you're going to
try to do it with your dumb brain and it's
not gonna work.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
It's not gonna work.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
I was actually thinking about this, like, there's a lot
of issues that I would care if my kids were
on the opposite side of me about, but the one
that really would bug me would be if they were
anti capitalists, because it would show that, like our whole
education was for not Like again, I wouldn't love if
they opposed other things that I care about, but that being.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Anti capitalists would be like, oh, you're stupid. That would
be hard to And not.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
That I should show too much sympathy for those who
don't understand capitalism while living at the benefit of it
at every second of their lives. But I am shocked
by how little emphasis is given in our society, in education,
particularly for young people, about any of this, just the
underpinning of literally everything we have, and people are like, oh, no,
(23:35):
I've never thought about how velveta ends up on the shelf. Well,
you should think about that, and I will I will
recommend once again both the TV show and the books,
the Tuttle Twins books because my kids run through them
and they have learned very important concepts, and I try
to teach them as we're out shopping when they have
questions about why things have prices on Aha.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Prices a signal children, let me tell you about it.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Another good one is eye Pencil.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
It's like you can watch a short video about how
the pencil is made and how many different people are
involved in it and why the government couldn't do it.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Yeah, shut out Milton Friedman.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Oh yeah, Milton.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
I'd love his old famous series Is It Free to Choose?
I believe starts with eye Pencil, which is a really
helpful and very simple way to understand, which you would
think all of these ivy league educated people would have heard.
They can't just magically recreate what capitalism creates.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
They try it every time, they keep just trying it.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Side like old Yeller.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
We're going to take a short break and be right
back with more on Normally.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
All right, guys, We're back on Normally with some fertility
talk again, because we like kids and we like families,
and we want a lot of them, and that somebody
flagged for me the Institute of Family Studies, who I
follow and get a lot of interesting information from, but
they flagged Bethany Mandel column that noted their research on
(25:06):
the gap and childbearing between liberals and conservatives has grown
dramatically over the past several decades, to the point where
it now represents one of the most striking demographic divides
in the country. And these divergence in like red state
kids versus Blue state kids, or ideological parents having more
kids than blue.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Is quite astonishing.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
I mean that blue line just going down, down, down,
and the red line either steady or quite a bit
up in some cases.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And the question becomes do conservatives have more children because
they're conservative or do you become conservative when you have children.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
It's sort of the line of like which right. But
also there was this thing, do you remember, the row effect.
James Toronto coined it in the early two.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Thousands, about how it was liberal women have abortions at
a much higher rate than conservative women, and he was like,
they're going to have kids that also lean conservative, So
you know, it doesn't always work out that way, but
it's it's the trend line, right, a liberal parent will
have liberal children, a conservative parent will have conservative children.
(26:17):
And you could see it in you know, happening in
action twenty years or so later.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Well, I think a lack of children.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
So if you grow up in a liberal area where
everyone has one or two kids, right, it's gonna seem very.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Outside the norm.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
For someone to have even three or four, four would
be crazy. We re look at us around here like
we're crazy.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
But because of that.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
It's a it's a reinforcing cycle because the fewer kids
that are around, the less comfortable you are doing more
with your kids, because people are less used to having
kids around, and then it becomes harder to be a parent,
which means you don't want to be a parent. Four
times over, it's it really reinforces itself. This is something
that you know, I think companies Disney and the past
(27:00):
has dealt with a bunch of adult patrons at Disney parks,
and they want adult patrons, but they also are trying
to be careful of the fact that if you diminish
the number of kids, the number of families will go
down because you were kids equals less easy to have
kids in that space, right, right, And so I think
that happens in communities, and Conservatives surround themselves often by
(27:25):
communities and people who have more kids, who make it
easier to have more kids around.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, you could see it in Europe, you know the
fact that hotel rooms are really not designed for you
to come there with kids or everything there is not
really designed for you to have more than one child.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
You can also see it.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
You know, there's a story right now Hampshire College is
closing its doors. Hampshire is like I actually visited it
when I was touring colleges.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
It's at the super hippie school in.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Rural Massachusetts, and it was I mean, it looked like
the nineteen sixties, even in the nineteen nineties.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Super super liberal school, no grades.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
I mean it's you know, it's that kind of school.
And it's like nobody's talking about the fact that could
it be that there just aren't enough liberal kids to
go there anymore because the birth rate has fallen so far,
and no conservative is like pushing their kids to go
to Hampshire.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
So the readings themselves out of things that they like well.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
And I've seen people writing on x sad about how
their kids don't have cousins because only one of the
kids in a family of two or three ended up
having kids, and so every family function you go to
ends up being harder because you're.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
The only one with young kids.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
You don't have that passle of cousins, which I'm very
thankful that we have for our kids to run around with.
And the thing that's challenging about this is that many
European countries have implemented many, many government programs to make
it quote easier to have more kids, and the fact
is that a lot of the programs and the subsidies
don't do the trick. Bethany has a great line, which
(29:02):
is if there's a if there's a path forward, it
begins with recognizing that the fertility crisis is not just
about what people can afford, but about what they believe
is worth doing. And that's that's the part where I
try to help, because like I'm I try to be
a pr campaign for like this same on I'm.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Enjoying myself best.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Actually it's so good.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Do you remember there was a thing in Spain gave
men extended paternity leaves to increase their birth rate, and
it had the opposite effect because men were like.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
This is really hard.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I go back to work to work, which listen, there's
also a difference between men and women. You know, men
having an extended paternity leave. It's not the same as
a woman having excited maternity leave.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
It is true, but yeah, worth doing.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
I think that's the that's the thing is that you
and again, I think during COVID and I learned how
valuable cultural norms like going to restaurants that are open,
that's important, going that are open like that, those.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Are important things.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
To movie theaters and everybody kind of thought you could
pull the plug and just plug everything back in. But
if you lose a habit, that's hard to get back,
and if the habit is procreation, that's gonna be pretty
bad for your society.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
So if only somebody had known, Yeah, I feel like
we're somebody had said something.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
That's right. Up, more babies.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
We will applaud you all the.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Way and pray for you if you're not there yet,
because those who want to, I want them to.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Be able to.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Thanks for joining us on normally normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays,
and you could subscribe.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Anywhere you get your podcast.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Get in touch with us at normallythepod at gmail dot com.
Thanks for listening and when things get weird, act normally
Yeah, back only to chill a little more.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
It's weird. I am Mary Cathern. I'm Karl Marco.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
It's how's it going, Mary Catherine?
Speaker 3 (00:14):
It's going all right.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
I took the kids on a the two littles on
a preschool field trip this morning.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
So nice.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Where'd they go?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
A little walk to the library, learn how to treat
your books? Get a little too.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, that's really cute.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
I missed the young the young years where you got
to come along on field trips. They do not let
you come along on field trips as they get older.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Well, I have learned that having this, having this second
set of kids as mine become tweens and pushed me
away right and teens and whatnot. That on the way home,
I played my littles free bird and taught them to
say play some skinnered and yellow window, and they were
really game for it, whereas my ten and twelve year
old'll be like, what.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Are you doing. I remember teaching that very important lesson
to my children as well, and my husband who had
never heard of it, like I was like, yeah, you
have to scream out freebird at random shows that are
not Leonard skinnerd so like sounds skinnerd.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah, my four year old, very convincing. She's got it
in her soul.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Good.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, it's really It's an important trait to have. So
I'm going to Buck Sexton's having a book party tonight
in South Florida. His book Manufacturing Delusion New York Times bestseller.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
It's really good. Like I can't tell you I finished it.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'm about halfway through, which for me is like a
miracle because I never never get to read it.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
But it's really good. It's very, very well written.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
You can completely hear Buck in it, you know, like
those political books you read and.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
You can't hear the author at all. It just sounds
like AI. But before AI was.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Really a thing, you could hear books like Turner phrases
and just the way he speaks.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
It's excellent. Manufacturing Delusions. People very nice at it.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Well, Manufacturing Delusion. I'm excited to check out that book.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
We have speaking of delusions manufacturing thereof we have some
immigration check ins, because the thing about the immigration narrative
is that if you don't check back on every story,
you're going to miss some pretty major developments. Because there
is a tendency of the press which is very like
(02:31):
basically pro open borders to say that any pickup of any.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Person is some huge violation.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
As you know, kilmar Abrego Garcia has like has like
a year and a half of due process now going on,
as did Mark Khalil and uh. In this update, we
have appeals court orders judge to end contempt investigation of
Trump administration deportation flights. So this is a year ago
(03:00):
about when the Trump administration sent some Venezuelan immigrants migrants
out of the country and they were illegally here and
basically there was a fight over when they needed to
come back because the judge Boasburg, who's a DC judge,
decided that they needed to come back and whether the
administration had violated a court order when they continued in
(03:24):
flight out to wherever they sent them. Well this decision,
he then decided to hold them in contempt and to
do this criminal contempt investigation, and a higher court says
the legal error at the heart of these criminal contempt
proceedings demonstrates why further investigation by the district court is
an abuse of discretion. One of the judges wrote, criminal
(03:47):
contempt is available only for the violation of order. That
is clear and specific Bosburg's March twenty twenty five order
did not clearly and specifically bar the government from transferring
plaintiffs into Salvador and custody. The ACLU value to continue
fighting this.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Just like the ACLUS on this huh.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Just like they actively fought for all of us during COVID,
remember I do remember.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Very very well.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Yeah, so that didn't work out for Bohsburg, as several.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Of his orders have not, and it will go to
a higher court again.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
So it's a bit of a white pill, as the
kids say, because it's a three judge panel and they're
in DC, this US Court of Appeals, you kind of
don't think they're going to vote in the direction of
Trump no matter what. And the fact that they did is, look,
it's it's encouraging. It means that there are some judges
out there that are not going to let their political
(04:40):
opinions weigh their you know, decisions.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
So white white pill.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I like it well.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
And also again I I am I want to be
careful of violating people's civil rights.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
And also not every.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Single illegal immigrants, oh yeah, needs an expedited to the top,
super ridiculously thoroughs three year process before we can get
them out of the country.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
That is not a workable situation. That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Frankly, many of the people who have gotten their cases
heard way up high and quickly get better service in
the US justice system than Americans do.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Right, it's us that our system against us.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Really, it's saying like, you have the system that we're
going to completely jam up with these cases. And again,
the idea that every person who entered illegally during during
the Biden years should have their day in court is
it's going to take, you know, decades, And that's entirely
the point.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
By the way, the tell is that at the end
of the line, like when Kilmar Alberto Garcia has had
due process like every single kind you could possibly imagine,
because he already had tons of process before they tried
to get him out after another year of process, the
people who want open borders are still like, no, you can't, Yeah,
you can't.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I feel like we can't.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, it's not it's actually not the due process that
they have a problem with. It's the policy of not
having open borders. And it always bothered me so much
and it continues to bother me that Democrats largely agree
with open borders, but could never ever run on it,
and so they do it this way. It's like have
some you know, I'm not going to say, you know
(06:28):
the male anatomy, but.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Run on what you actually believe.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
It just always seems like Democrats run to their right
and Republicans also run to their right, and everybody governs
to the left.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yes, it's annoying. Another great update. Do you remember the
story about an Illinois woman who claims she was detained.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
By ice for three hours and she's a She's a
US citizen, So we were like, Okay, I'm listening.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Happen.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Yeah, Well, an Illinois woman who claims she was detained
by Ice for nearly two days was actually relaxing at
a hotel getting SPA treatments, according to a one million
dollar defamation suit filed by a county sheriff. US citizen
Sunny Knakvie twenty eight, gained national attention last month when
she and a band of supporters, including Cook County Illinois
Commissioner Kevin Morrison, publicly insisted she was unlawfully detained by
(07:21):
Ice officers for roughly forty three hours. But no, it
turns out they have a surveillance of her in a hotel, but.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
That they had to go through all of this to
prove that this woman was lying and trying to say
that ICE is detaining American citizens. I remember the story
so well because I remember all the people on my
Facebook feed who fell for it. And look, they're detaining
American citizens now, and I have like, you know, acquaintances
and friends who are like, I travel with the passport
now because of this kind of thing, and it's like,
(07:53):
you really don't have to actually, so.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Yes, mss Knockfee departed CBP within ninety minutes of her
arrival in the United States. D just wrote at the time,
and it looks like there is evidence that she checked
into the Hampton Inn in sweets in Rosemont, Illinois.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
I mean, you can do a little better over the
SPA if you're already faking being detained.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I don't know that I would go to a Hampton din. Yeah,
but all right, all right, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
You and I can definitely pick a different spot to
pretend to have, you know, been detained too.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Yes, they also obtained texts from her to someone else,
so she may have been spying not at the hotel,
because I agree with you Hampton and see a weird choice.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
May I use your card to order some food?
Speaker 4 (08:38):
She asked someone during these forty three hours going to
check out the gym. In like five, she texts someone,
may I use your card to pay my spa lady?
These are all during the period in which she's supposed
to be detained.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Apparently, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
With all the crime documentaries, people still don't know how
to really commit crimes. They just put everything in a text.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
The whole thing where you shouldn't put these things in
writing has escaped two generations of America.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Baffling because you feel like they should know by now,
but they still don't.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
They just don't. Right, She's a twenty eight year old woman.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
You know she watches True Crime girl god right, And yeah,
she's wearing the same clothes in the the reunification photos
that went public as she is in the hotel wandering
around seemingly not being detained. So look, ma'am, it's just
always worth checking in on these things. I have another
update by the way from Fairfax County where if you'll remember,
(09:35):
an adult if you guys have I can't remember, we've
addressed this in the show, But an adult illegal immigrant
who has enrolled in Fairfax County schools. At a high school,
had been accused by some I believe about a dozen
female students of groping them in pretty serious ways in
the hallways. And of course in Fairfax County because we
have a Soros funded lefty prosecutor, Steve Discano, who doesn't
(09:59):
like to prosecute people, particularly illegal immigrants, because they might
face deportation and ice consequences for that. They of course,
uh like, didn't really try to get him in trouble,
downgraded his accusations or charges, and then he's going to
be like just doing his thing again.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
That's horrific.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Actually, this is the place that you pay all your
tax money for.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
If you break the law to come here and then
you break some more laws, you're treated better than somebody
who's from here.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
That's and the local reporter Nick Manok also dug up
on Discano's website an explicit expression of that. He said
on the on the site he since wiped it clean.
He said on the site, it is not a fair
adjudication in our justice system if someone faces more consequences
due to their crime that they committed the other crime
(10:56):
they committed and therefore because of that, he cuts back
on the the punishing of the crime.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
You know, I'm not going to say it every episode,
but if you wanted to move to Florida, we are
here for you, Mary Catherine keeps happening. You know who
else is really good at following up on the stories
is Bill Malugin. I just I think he deserves all
the shout outs. He's always on top of these stories.
(11:22):
He's never letting them just slide, and he's always like,
remember this big story, this is how it turned out.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
I think he's just excellent.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Yes, he does a great job. He and Griftenkins were
all over the Biden era and they have continued to
follow us. They know exactly how these things happen and
what the really bad stories look like.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
And by the way, I saw this stat the other day.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
This was from Cato, so they were reporting it as
a negative, but it's the number of asylum seekers coming
to the border because of the policy which has changed
from literally anyone ye, yeah, from some more restrictive come
on into don't like yeah, that number is way way down,
(12:04):
which again I am somebody in the past who would
have been like, yes, asylum seekers, I want to be
able to take them.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
But when you abuse the asylum system as Biden did,
to make it into anyone and everyone, I then become
much more skeptical and say, hey, as Trump might say,
let's stop while we figure out what the hell is
going on.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, yeah, you should have a process. It's really not
that complicated. I you know, I was that asylum seeker.
There was a process in place, we had to do
certain things. I mean, I don't think that's a crazy
thing to ask for. And the thing is that that position,
our position, where you know, asylum seekers should be able
to apply for, you know, to be refugees in the
(12:46):
United States, that's such an unpopular position now because of
the last few years of ahem, Americans are over it,
and it's unfortunate people who believe in legal migration.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
You abuse the system and people lose trust in the system,
and then you get backlash against the things you want.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
I feel like we've seen this somewhere before. Indeed, all right,
we're going.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
To take a short break and be right back with
more on normally. We are back on normally, where a
growing number of blue states are trying to charge wealth
exit taxes, and it's really mind boggling, because again, I
think we've seen this somewhere before. The whole putting up
(13:27):
a wall so people can't leave. It feels very familiar. Actually,
California has this Billionaire Tax Act that is potentially going
to be on the ballot. We've talked about this one
before because it's such a crazy tax. It would be
a retroactive five percent tax on your total net worth,
not on your income, on your total net worth, so
(13:47):
it could be your house is your total net worth,
it could be anything, and you would have to pay
five percent of that. Some people wouldn't have the money
to pay that because their money is in other things.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
So a lot of billionaires.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Are making their way to the exit. California has lost
a couple of really big name billionaires like Sir Gabrinn
and some other ones. And the thing is that they
don't even know if this is going to get on
the ballot, and then if it does get on the ballot,
they don't know that the governor is not going to
veto But as we've talked about on the show, these
people don't trust their fellow voters not to get it
(14:20):
on the ballot, and they don't trust their politicians not
to enact it.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
So they're leaving.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Multimillionaires are leaving two because they understand what's going to happen.
As soon as the billionaires are out the door, who's
five percent are they going to try to take? It's
going to be the next tax bracket down now. Washington
State they passed a nine point nine percent tax on
incomes over a million dollars, and they're now saying that
maybe they're going to have this kind of wealth exit tax.
(14:48):
And it happens, you know, happens right around the time
that Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz, he had an estimated net
worth of over three billion dollars, he announced his move
to Florida, which lot of these guys are doing. And
I'm always here to say, please vote correctly when you
get here. You did this to your own state, and
maybe don't do this to our state.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Yeah, to your point, Carol, if you are needing to
economically checkpoint Charlie, your people and not let them escape
the burning economic situation you have created, there's something wrong.
You should look at yourself. You should look at your policies.
You should not look at the people who are leaving
and blame them. And this is this seems to be
(15:32):
a frequent left wing contention, is like, there can't possibly
be anything wrong with what we're doing.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Right, Like on the date when I someday.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Moved to Florida, no one in northern Virginia will be like,
did we get it wrong?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
No one thinks that.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
They think, how can we get them on the way
out if they're going to leave? And the thing that's
so funny to me is that, as we mentioned before,
HOC in particular in New York treated these people and
treats them while they live there. Yeah, it's such open contempt.
And then you're surprised when they want to leave. And
(16:11):
then as they're leaving, you remind them, yes, we hate
you and we want your stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
But once you've left, she's like, you owe it to
us to come back, and everyone's like, I'm never coming back.
What are you even talking about. I don't understand how
any of this is constitutional.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I don't get it. I'm not a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Therefore, I only understand the big picture of it that
taking somebody's percentage of their net worth in general, I
don't understand how that's constitutional because it's not realized gains.
It's already been taxed when it was your income. I
just don't get that at all. But then also confiscating
(16:50):
money from people who want to move interstate just makes
no sense to me.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
It's like an estate tax, except you haven't died. You're
just going right for state. And the estate tax also
is unfair because all of that income has been taxed
as well before you die. But again, getting you on
the way out, it's just you know, the way out
the mortal coil versus the way out of the state.
But I just at some point, can't people see how
(17:17):
much their governments hate them. I like, in a I
experienced this during COVID, where it was just like, wow,
this school board really is not just not helping parents,
is actively opposed to parents.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
They dislike us, they don't want.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
To have anything to do with us, and in fact,
we'll just like our children delivered unto them.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
For the indoctrination. I mean, it's just like, yeah, okay, so.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
It's I mean, to get no services for what you're
getting is you know, it is an added bonus of that.
The other thing is that, of course these people who
are leaving, they don't just leave, they take their companies
with them, So you're not just losing one rich guy,
You're potentially losing much more. In an article about Howard
(18:10):
Schultz leaving for Florida, they say that he is moving
his entire company out of state.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
I don't know if that's truths.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I've only seen it in this one news piece, but
you know that easily could be true. Other high profile
companies relocating Exit Mobile apparently moving from New Jersey to Texas,
Uber from California, also in Texas, Yamaha Motor from California
to Georgia, and then JP Morgan CEO. I mean, they
haven't moved yet, but he keeps taking shots at New
(18:39):
York and being like.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
We could move, because you definitely could. He made the comment.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
The truth is that while New York City has much
going for it, particularly for financial companies because of extraordinary talent,
it also has the highest city in state corporate taxes
and the highest individual income and state taxes.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
It's doable to move a financial firm. People are doing it.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I mean, wes Palm is becoming a financial hub in Florida.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
These states are really going to lose out.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
And again, for me, I'm welcoming to all these companies
that are coming, But understand why you left.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
You did not leave because they got to left. They
were that the whole time. They just had no power.
So make your decisions, vote correctly. Don't do here what
you did there.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Because eventually there will be nowhere to escape to. That's
really the issue.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
But I do, I think, and when every time I'm
Nannie talks about it, you can tell there is this
cognitive dissonance where they know they need the money from
these icky billionaires and millionaires, so like, I know I
need your money, right, But somehow in their heads that
money simply is and was stolen from someone else or
ill gotten in some way. Look, all companies have some
(19:56):
sort of ethical laps at some point. I'm not arguing
that they're.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Perfect, but this money isn't ill gotten.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
Right.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Bezos has a bunch of money because he gives a
bunch of services to a bunch of people. And I
would wager that everyone who complains about him has in
the last three days got something from him.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
That's right, revolutionized the way you live your life and
can get products at your home. So that's why he
has that money. To Mom Donnie, who grew up with
wels from his parents and doesn't really think about how
it takes risks and smarts and real bravery to create
these things. He just thinks it's there, it's there, and
(20:33):
now it's ours. It's there and now it's ours, just
like mommy's money was. And that's not how it works. Yeah,
but the whole step.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah. He actually talked about Margaret Thatcher when talking about
his new city run grocery store that's going to cost
like ten times the amount of any other grocery store.
And it's interesting because you know, Margaret Thatcher was the
daughter of a grocer.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
He's talking about.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Somebody who actually understands the problems and how to solve them.
And he said something like, you know, it takes to
socialists to clean up the problems.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
It's like, I know, I've seen that happen.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
Yeah, it's actually never But okay, if you say away,
if at some point he can stand up and say, look,
this bag of Royce costs less at this grocery store
than at this government grocery store than.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
The capitalist one. Let me just inform you that.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
That government grocery store doesn't have to pay rent. There's
a huge part of its operating costs.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
The good guy us.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
And it's gonna cost thirty million dollars for one grocery store.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Everyone who's ever lived in New York is like, how
is that even possible? It's you can buy a grocery
store for like five million. What's happening here? James Morrow,
he's an excellent guy at the Daily Telegraph. He commented
about that years from now there'll be an iconic photograph
of mom Donnie visiting a supermarket in the American heartland
(21:54):
being stunned by the selection of goods.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
It's very funny.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I kind of can't get enough of these. Jesse.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Kelly is like, I'm legit so excited to watch this
whole predictable story play out. It's like watching Old Yeller
for the twentieth time. You know what's coming, but you're
still watching.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Oh, by the way, free buses, we're informed will not
happen this year, just way. My friend, my friend Kelly
and I always say the problem with the Invisible Hand
is that it's simply too invisible because all these idiot
left us.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
You're like, I've got an idea. Can we orchestrate away
to get a bunch of products into one store that
everyone needs and have like the right amounts and price
them at the right point.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
It's like, yes, we have a system for that. Capitalism
does it almost magically over here, and you're going to
try to do it with your dumb brain and it's
not gonna work.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
It's not gonna work.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
I was actually thinking about this, like, there's a lot
of issues that I would care if my kids were
on the opposite side of me about, but the one
that really would bug me would be if they were
anti capitalists, because it would show that, like our whole
education was for not Like again, I wouldn't love if
they opposed other things that I care about, but that being.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Anti capitalists would be like, oh, you're stupid. That would
be hard to And not.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
That I should show too much sympathy for those who
don't understand capitalism while living at the benefit of it
at every second of their lives. But I am shocked
by how little emphasis is given in our society, in education,
particularly for young people, about any of this, just the
underpinning of literally everything we have, and people are like, oh, no,
(23:35):
I've never thought about how velveta ends up on the shelf. Well,
you should think about that, and I will I will
recommend once again both the TV show and the books,
the Tuttle Twins books because my kids run through them
and they have learned very important concepts, and I try
to teach them as we're out shopping when they have
questions about why things have prices on Aha.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Prices a signal children, let me tell you about it.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Another good one is eye Pencil.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
It's like you can watch a short video about how
the pencil is made and how many different people are
involved in it and why the government couldn't do it.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Yeah, shut out Milton Friedman.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Oh yeah, Milton.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
I'd love his old famous series Is It Free to Choose?
I believe starts with eye Pencil, which is a really
helpful and very simple way to understand, which you would
think all of these ivy league educated people would have heard.
They can't just magically recreate what capitalism creates.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
They try it every time, they keep just trying it.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Side like old Yeller.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
We're going to take a short break and be right
back with more on Normally.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
All right, guys, We're back on Normally with some fertility
talk again, because we like kids and we like families,
and we want a lot of them, and that somebody
flagged for me the Institute of Family Studies, who I
follow and get a lot of interesting information from, but
they flagged Bethany Mandel column that noted their research on
(25:06):
the gap and childbearing between liberals and conservatives has grown
dramatically over the past several decades, to the point where
it now represents one of the most striking demographic divides
in the country. And these divergence in like red state
kids versus Blue state kids, or ideological parents having more
kids than blue.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Is quite astonishing.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
I mean that blue line just going down, down, down,
and the red line either steady or quite a bit
up in some cases.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And the question becomes do conservatives have more children because
they're conservative or do you become conservative when you have children.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
It's sort of the line of like which right. But
also there was this thing, do you remember, the row effect.
James Toronto coined it in the early two.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Thousands, about how it was liberal women have abortions at
a much higher rate than conservative women, and he was like,
they're going to have kids that also lean conservative, So
you know, it doesn't always work out that way, but
it's it's the trend line, right, a liberal parent will
have liberal children, a conservative parent will have conservative children.
(26:17):
And you could see it in you know, happening in
action twenty years or so later.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Well, I think a lack of children.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
So if you grow up in a liberal area where
everyone has one or two kids, right, it's gonna seem very.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Outside the norm.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
For someone to have even three or four, four would
be crazy. We re look at us around here like
we're crazy.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
But because of that.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
It's a it's a reinforcing cycle because the fewer kids
that are around, the less comfortable you are doing more
with your kids, because people are less used to having
kids around, and then it becomes harder to be a parent,
which means you don't want to be a parent. Four
times over, it's it really reinforces itself. This is something
that you know, I think companies Disney and the past
(27:00):
has dealt with a bunch of adult patrons at Disney parks,
and they want adult patrons, but they also are trying
to be careful of the fact that if you diminish
the number of kids, the number of families will go
down because you were kids equals less easy to have
kids in that space, right, right, And so I think
that happens in communities, and Conservatives surround themselves often by
(27:25):
communities and people who have more kids, who make it
easier to have more kids around.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, you could see it in Europe, you know the
fact that hotel rooms are really not designed for you
to come there with kids or everything there is not
really designed for you to have more than one child.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
You can also see it.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
You know, there's a story right now Hampshire College is
closing its doors. Hampshire is like I actually visited it
when I was touring colleges.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
It's at the super hippie school in.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Rural Massachusetts, and it was I mean, it looked like
the nineteen sixties, even in the nineteen nineties.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Super super liberal school, no grades.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
I mean it's you know, it's that kind of school.
And it's like nobody's talking about the fact that could
it be that there just aren't enough liberal kids to
go there anymore because the birth rate has fallen so far,
and no conservative is like pushing their kids to go
to Hampshire.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
So the readings themselves out of things that they like well.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
And I've seen people writing on x sad about how
their kids don't have cousins because only one of the
kids in a family of two or three ended up
having kids, and so every family function you go to
ends up being harder because you're.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
The only one with young kids.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
You don't have that passle of cousins, which I'm very
thankful that we have for our kids to run around with.
And the thing that's challenging about this is that many
European countries have implemented many, many government programs to make
it quote easier to have more kids, and the fact
is that a lot of the programs and the subsidies
don't do the trick. Bethany has a great line, which
(29:02):
is if there's a if there's a path forward, it
begins with recognizing that the fertility crisis is not just
about what people can afford, but about what they believe
is worth doing. And that's that's the part where I
try to help, because like I'm I try to be
a pr campaign for like this same on I'm.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Enjoying myself best.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Actually it's so good.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Do you remember there was a thing in Spain gave
men extended paternity leaves to increase their birth rate, and
it had the opposite effect because men were like.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
This is really hard.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I go back to work to work, which listen, there's
also a difference between men and women. You know, men
having an extended paternity leave. It's not the same as
a woman having excited maternity leave.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
It is true, but yeah, worth doing.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
I think that's the that's the thing is that you
and again, I think during COVID and I learned how
valuable cultural norms like going to restaurants that are open,
that's important, going that are open like that, those.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Are important things.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
To movie theaters and everybody kind of thought you could
pull the plug and just plug everything back in. But
if you lose a habit, that's hard to get back,
and if the habit is procreation, that's gonna be pretty
bad for your society.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
So if only somebody had known, Yeah, I feel like
we're somebody had said something.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
That's right. Up, more babies.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
We will applaud you all the.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Way and pray for you if you're not there yet,
because those who want to, I want them to.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Be able to.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Thanks for joining us on normally normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays,
and you could subscribe.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Anywhere you get your podcast.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Get in touch with us at normallythepod at gmail dot com.
Thanks for listening and when things get weird, act normally
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