April 7, 2026 • 35 mins
On this episode of Normally, Mary Katharine Ham and Karol Markowicz break down a stunning U.S. military rescue mission that brought home a downed American officer from hostile territory—highlighting the precision, power, and patriotism behind the operation.
They dive into rising tensions with Iran, President Trump’s unpredictable messaging strategy, and what it signals for global conflict and diplomacy. Plus, a look at the Strait of Hormuz and why its stability matters more than ever for the world economy.
The conversation shifts to America’s renewed sense of national pride—from military success to space exploration, including the buzz around Artemis missions and the future of U.S. leadership in space.
Finally, they tackle a controversial trend: Americans moving overseas to avoid paying student loans. Is this a failure of the system—or personal responsibility gone wrong?
Follow Clay & Buck on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/clayandbuck
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey guys, we are backing normally, so we normally taking
for wedda the news just weird.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Kathrin am awful week of being very normy by checking
out of the news.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
I love checking out of the news. I am Carol Markowitz.
We held down the fort here at normally while Mary
Katherine was you know, touching grass, living her life whatever.
Bridget Fetesy filled in on Wednesday and she did a
fantastic job.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I mean gonna be hard to top her.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Thanks a lot for jea welcome back, Mary Catherine. She
also celebrated Mary Catherine celebrated her birthday over the weekend
on Easter Sunday and wrote a really beautiful post on
X about it, and you should definitely go check it out.
Happy birthday, Mary Catherine.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Thank you very much. I had a lovely day with
my family.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
It was a wild weekend. It was really a lot
going on your birthday Easter Sunday, and then of course
the rescue of the down F fifteen weapons systems officer.
The pilot was of course rescued right away on Friday.
And then the weapon systems officer are a wizzo, as
(01:14):
I'm told he is called on the Google was missing
for twenty four hours plus, and it was really touch
and go on X whether or not he was recovered,
and we were all obviously holding our breath and very afraid.
But we woke up on Sunday morning to news from
the White House saying he had been you know, found
(01:37):
and was alive and was on his way home.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Ah, you're saying he was lost on Good Friday and
found on Easter Sunday. Crazy, what a story I was. Again,
I was sort of checked out and clued into the
end of this story, so I missed the suspense in
the middle, which without that it is astounding what our
(02:04):
military is capable of astounding. We have these.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Super fan haters on X, which I appreciate so much.
I really do think it's the haters that keep us going.
But we got some comments like why haven't you and
I commented on him while he was missing, and for me,
I was holding my breath and praying, And that's why
I wasn't going to comment on something that I was
(02:31):
hoping played out in a positive fashion and was praying
real hard that it wasn't going to play on in
a negative fashion. So what was I supposed to comment on?
You were you know, again touching the grass.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Also, this is such an interesting reaction from people, and
we're going to go through the details of this rescue.
But in the moment where one of our service members
is lost in a foreign and hostile country we don't
know where and possibly could be dead, I'm like you, Carol,
I'm just praying that this person is returned safely, and
(03:05):
we know that the stakes are high. There was an
interesting moment from Tim Kaine, who is my Virginia senator,
a Democrat, who tweeted, we are trying to rescue a
downed American and around excess excess boasts about no quarter,
no mercy at acting stupid rules of engagement. I mean,
we have to hope that Iran follows the humanitarian laws
(03:25):
that US leaders now dismiss. Okay, right, So he's mad
that the guy has lost, except he's mostly mad about politics,
it sounds like. And then Guy Benson points up, no
update has senator? Is this a disappointing outcome for you, Renny?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
And he's also assuming that Iran is going to be
humanitarian towards our guy.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Or that followed rules.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, like Iran pays for hamas have you seen what
Hamas did to the people that they captured on October seven.
You think that they're going to get our down officer
and treat him nicely, and they might not because of
Pete Hegseth like being blustery.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Come on, no, it's it's a ridiculous point of view.
And I one of the things I love about being
conservative is that I can have uncomplicated and joyful feelings
about the birth of babies, about America being great, and
about American military dominance, and a pilot and other the
(04:27):
weapon services we excuse me, weapons systems officer being rescued
in valiant style from hostile territory. I have uncomplicated, excited, joyful,
glad feelings about that.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
It's really funny that you say that, because I also
noticed that the whole you know, woke right, whatever you
want to call them, they are clearly having these complicated
feelings where just recently, when they were firmly on the
right and they were normal, they wouldn't have been even
if they didn't support the mission in Iran, they would
understan in that getting the officer back would be amazing
(05:03):
and like a moment of joy. And they're just so
perplexed and confused about where they're supposed to be. I mean,
Joe Kent shared a nonsense post from drop site which
is like this Russian propaganda paid site, quoting Iranian propaganda
that claimed that the US was trying to kill the
lost pilot, and he was like, and I pray for
(05:25):
his recovery. Well, which is it is the US trying
to kill the pilot or are you hoping for his recovery? Like?
What are you sharing here? And I think that confusion
is really obvious in a lot of people. They don't
know what they're supposed to feel anymore because they are
rooting against the mission, they're rooting against the president, and
the rooting against the country.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. I don't want to mince words
about it, because it seems fairly obvious that that's what's happening.
That for someone like Kane, who may have updated in
the meantime, but did not update quickly and excitedly about
this for Kane, and it was ideologically inconvenient and politically
inconvenient that this didn't turn out badly. Right now, there
(06:07):
are some also who say it did turn out badly
because you lost an aircraft and then you lost two
other aircraft leaving you had to spend all this. Yeah,
we spend all of that to get one airman back.
That's what we do, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
It's just the last few days have been like being
in a super patriotic movie. I mean, in fact, the
whole Trump administration so far has been, for me, very
patriotic movie.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Coded.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
You just feel like raw, raw America in so many
different ways, and it's just it's been amazing to watch.
I think that people don't get that we would have
rooted for the same outcome if Joe Biden was president.
I remember being devastated about what happened in Afghanistan to
lost military members there, and had that gone successfully, I
(06:57):
would have been happy, and it wouldn't have been hard
to be happy. It's not what we do. We root
for our servicemen and women, we root for our country.
It's not that complicated.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I think we have a longish clip from Trey Yanks
reporting from the Middle East about this operation, and it's
going to give you about three minutes of explanation, but
I feel like we need it and we want it,
so take it away. Trey.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
It was a daring rescue operations. Sources both in the
United States and here in Israel have described it to
Fox News as one for the history books. We can
exclusively report. It was on Saturday morning that the CIA
was able to confirm and locate the missing airmen.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
The CIA was.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Concerned that this was a trick by the Iranians to
try and lure in US special forces and attack them.
But once they were able to use advanced technology to
confirm not only that this was the identity of the airmen,
but also the location, that message was delivered to the
Secretary of War and the Joint Chiefs Chairman and ultimately
the President, I am told by a senior US official.
(08:00):
You look at the timeline here. It was late Thursday
night into Friday when that F fifteen E fighter jet
was shot down over the skies of southwestern Iran. The
pilot of that jet was recovered on Friday by US
special forces, but that weapons systems officer had to spend
up to two days evading Iranian capture. They activated that
emergency beacon. It was confirmed by the CIA, who at
(08:22):
the same time was running the deception campaign, and then
ultimately it was the President, I am told who made
the decision, and within twelve hours there were US forces
on the ground inside of Iran conducting the rescue mission.
As it relates to the CIA deception campaign, I am
told by a senior US official, the CIA leaked through
multiple sources that they were trying to move a valuable
(08:43):
package out of the country through a maritime xfil This
was meant to draw the Iranians away from the area
where the US crew member was located. I'm told that
deception campaign worked coupled with the fire from the air
and those drones targeting anyone who approached this area. There
was that major concern as the clock was ticking and
they were searching for this missing US crew member. Now
(09:04):
the Wall Street Journal Today is reporting the complex mission
quickly ran into problems, officials said. As the US redirected
aircraft in the region to help with the mission, some
planned targets, including missile launcher sites, were left untouched that
allowed around to fire more weapons than usual in recent days.
Officials said. The first attempt to rescue the airman had
to be aborted. Two eight six helicopters took small arms
(09:26):
fire from the ground, wounding the crews in both aircraft
and requiring them to land safely in Kuwaiti airspace. Now,
as this was taking place, the Israelis were watching closely
and coordinating behind the scenes. Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Ett
Yahoo said this overnight quote. I spoke earlier with President
Trump and personally congratulated him on his bold decision and
a perfectly executed American mission to rescue the down pilot
(09:48):
from enemy territory. The President expressed his appreciation for Israel's help.
I am deeply proud that our cooperation on and off
the battlefield is unprecedented and that Israel could contribute to
saving a brave Ama American warrior. So Bill and Dana,
this speaks to the coordination not only between the Americans
and the Israelis.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
But also the US military.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I spoke with sources here and they said the credit
belongs to the US military. This was what they described
as an excellent coordinated operation to use the willpower and
the fighting force of US Special Forces, coupled with the
intelligence apparatus of the United States to go deep into
enemy territory with more than one hundred US Special Forces
and rescue this F fifteen crew member over the weekend.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
It's just so amazing. I can't get over what a
complicated operation it was and how flawlessly it was executed. Again,
the idea that we lost planes or something, This is
what we do to get our guide back. This is
what America is. We've sort of forgotten that. And I look,
no one is more surprised than me that it's Donald
(10:52):
Trump bringing it all back to us and making us
feel like we're in like Iron Eagle or Top Gun.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
But here we are.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
You know, this guy Paul and laterner on X posted
twenty twenty six, has given us some iconic images and
he posted a picture of Jack Hughes with the American
flag and I Artemis taking off. And then Jesse arm
who's at the Manhattan Institute, he posted missing two of
my favorites, and it was a police officer jumping over
(11:21):
the fence to stop the bombers in New York City.
And then also Maduro on the plane back to the US.
Those four images, and it's only April. It's just it
hasn't been that long. It's just incredible year. Our two
hundred and fiftieth year feels so insanely pro America and
(11:41):
just patriotic. My kids are like, you're always saying that
you're very patriotic, but I have extra patriotic right now.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
No, I mean again, it is so fun to be
excited about these moments. That's to be excited about this,
to hear about a man who is perhaps you know,
near death, hiking a seven thousand foot cliff line to
hide himself and use the proper technology and all of
(12:09):
his training to make sure that Americans can find him
while the Iranians cannot find him. The CIA working in
tandem with the military and doing what it's supposed to do,
the military doing perfectly what it's supposed to do. And
then there are people who say, like, oh, you think
this is a success. You lost these two guys over
hostile territory, and then they were extracted using all this money,
(12:31):
and you had to blow up to sea one thirties
on the way out because they stalled and you didn't
want to give them over to the enemy. One, if
you're spiritually American, you understand that of course that's what
we do. We do no man left behind. We like,
this is what we do. Two. I would just like
to remind everyone that seventy plus aircraft were left at
Bagram in Afghanistan seventy plus. Yeah, aircraft, that doesn't even
(12:56):
count all the other things. Okay, and some of them
were disabled, but like, what are these people doing running
down in operation that rescues an American hero without casualties
except for the C one thirty. By the way, this
is another marker of our greatness and prosperity that we
(13:18):
have an air force that has many, many, thousands of planes.
We're not like Britain with seventy nine.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
I don't know what the actual number it is, you
know what I'm saying, right, somebody posted like, yeah, it's
because this is not our entire air force, like it's yours.
But this is like the people over things thing that
you tell your children, like in a fire or in
a dangerous situation, don't care about your things, don't care
about anything but people. You save the people. This on
(13:47):
a larger scale is what we're all about, and it's important.
It's an important lesson. You don't want to be the
kind of people who won't save your fellow countrymen because
you're afraid to lose a plane. Who cares about that plane?
Lose all the plane and get the person back.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
By the way, when you are acting as a normy
who's checked out of the news cycle, and you check
back in for the glorious rescue of this person. And
then someone tells you and it eventually dawns on you
that people are having a negative reaction to this. Your
normy brain goes, I'm sorry, what right? How? How?
Speaker 1 (14:21):
How So Thursday and Friday we're passover, the first two
nights to pass over, so Orthodox Jews were offline. I
am not Orthodox, I was very much online. And then Saturday,
obviously is another day that Orthodox Jews are offline. So
it's three days of Orthodox Jews being offline. Ron Coleman
comes back on on Saturday and says, what did I miss?
(14:43):
Redste's sums it up for him. He's like, blue Sky
thinks Trump is at Walter Reed, which is another insane
gosh all, Like he is hospitalized for sure. He hass
not golfing today. Therefore he is in the hospital dying
right now. It's like we're at war, we're missing one
of our officers, like he is working on it. I
(15:04):
don't have to love Donald Trump, you don't have to
care about him.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Don't be crazy.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Anyway, Red Ste's Blue Sky thinks Trump is at Walter
read no one knows if the down pilot was rescued
or not, not the pilot but the weapons officer and
now or not thanks to slap engagement accounts. And the
Artemis shitter is out of order again, which, well.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
That's Artemis in the next segment. No, it's I just
am am blown away by several operations. I mean Midnight Hammer,
the first bombing run and Iran the Venezuela extraction of Maduro.
And this all three done without loss of personnel, which
(15:47):
is shocking. Yeah, and that that doesn't that doesn't dismiss
that there have been personnel that have been lost in
other parts of the Iranian engagement. But to do those
three things, yeah, so close to absolutely flawlessly.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Again, having been betrayed by so many institutions over the
past fifteen years or so, it is inspiring to see
them work this way exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
And look, this is airing on Tuesday, which Donald Trump
has declared power Plant and Bridge Day in Iran.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Speaking of Donald Trump's special qualities, I would have appreciated
a different kind of Easter post. Just one out there,
thanks sir.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
So he posted Tuesday will be Powerplant Day and Bridge
Day all wrapped and won, and Iran, there'll be nothing
like it.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Open the f and.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Straight you crazy bastards are you've been living in hell?
Just watch Praise Be to Allah President Donald J. Trump.
A lot of people didn't like it, even a lot
of my conservative friends didn't like it. I like it.
I don't care. I like it. He comes off as
absolutely batshit crazy, and Iran does not know what to
expect from him, Like, who knows what this guy is
going to do? He can have power Plant Day and
(17:02):
Bridge Day beyond Monday. They don't know what's coming.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Is Praise be to Allah the new Thank you for
your attention to this matter. Maybe no, the cultivation of
the Madman theory overseas certainly is helpful, and the ongoing
threat to the straight off her moves into the world
economy is of course perilous. It is why you know.
(17:29):
I think Donald Trump is convinced to continue fighting to
get some kind of agreement from whoever is the last
man standing after we continue to lop off people from
the top of the regime. I did to hear some
reports about this rescue that locals were helpful by protecting
(17:51):
the area, that this American had hidden himself, which is
again inspiring, because this is one of those situations where
the country that we're bombing, many of the people inside
the country were bombing are very happy, in fact, happier
that we're doing it than Americans are in some cases.
But I do think, you know, we're still in the
(18:11):
what comes next phase and he's trying to communicate to
whoever's left in charge, right, we will continue.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I'm crazy, don't mess with us, like is the communication,
and I'm mostly here for it. Really. Look, I don't
always love the Trump crazy tweets. In fact, I barely
often do, not especially on holidays and times the.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Holiday ones get me. I'm like, can we just do
two separate ones, the crazy one and the normal.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I'm just a regular one. But I like this and
I think we're It sends a you don't know what
to expect from me message about the Strait of hermos
I read this interesting thing that I just wanted to
share with our listeners. Antonio Garcia Martinez was a really
great follow on x He tweeted a research port about
(19:01):
the the Strait of her Moos. Here's what he writes.
Hilarious on the ground reporting from the strait of her moves,
showing way more ships transitting than commonly believed. Because everyone
is believing the AIS transponder data, the fishing boats fifty
miles off the Oregon coast turn off their AIS to
avoid disclosing their best spots. I had to sail through
(19:21):
them at night and discover the hard way. A lot
of people manage lots of money, and I've never spent
a day at sea. I have never spent a day
at sea, so I do not know what the AIS
transponder data, whether it's real or how it works or whatever.
But apparently there are more ships going through than we
are led to believe.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
So yeah, I have heard that from several people. And
I have spent, you know, several days on a bass
boat in my life, so I think that I love it.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
My favorite song right now is bass Boat by Zach Ryant.
Very very good. All right, We're going to take a
short break and be right back with.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
More American greatness.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
America, America all the way, America all the time. Be
right back. We are back on normally where in a
few minutes when we're recording this, the Artemis is going
to round the moon? Is that am I saying that correct? America?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
I think that's correct.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Okay, it's been incredible. I'm not a space person. I'm
really I have never been like super fascinated by space.
But I am all in on all of these people.
The four of them are just amazing and magical and hilarious,
and I can't get enough.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
They are great. I am a Victor Glover fangirl, and
I only regret that I have not spent many more
years being a Victor Glover fangirl, because apparently I could
have earlier, and I just missed it. I again was
a little bit checked out, and my husband luckily flagged
this for the kids and me and said, like, come
watch the launch now. I will say I am of
the exact age as you are as well, probably although
(20:58):
you had just come to America maybe around this time.
I'm of the exact age to be very traumatized by Challenger,
and so watching a rocket launch does not feel as
magical to me, I think, as too many other people.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah hold my breath for sure. I mean yeah, I'm right, very.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Nervous about it. So but I came up to watch
with my kids and I wanted to experience it and
then I think, perhaps because of Challenger, I'm not that
interested in space. It scares me. I have no desire
to go. I'm not a person who wants to be
on Blue Origin at all. No, thank you, Jeff Bezos,
if you were looking into me, I'm gonna no. I
don't want to do it. I have no desire, but
(21:40):
I like that other people do. I'm excited that they
do that me too. However, then you, like you said, Carol,
you start digging into this and just the absolute beautiful
enormity of it, and the character of these people who
are on this craft and the dangerous thing they're doing,
and they're beautiful families. And also this came. I looked
(22:01):
back at the Jared Isaacman timeline, and I don't remember
if you and I talked about this on normally, but
he's his nomination to NASA Administrator administrator was a little
bit hinky for this reason. So he was nominated really early,
when like right after Trump took office, like in December
of twenty twenty, or right after he was elected, before
(22:23):
he was even in office. He was on the list early,
and then he got knocked off the list later in
April or May of twenty twenty five because of the
fight that Elon and Trump got in because Isaacman was
close to Elon and he had donated to some Democrats
in the past, and Trump was like, nah, I'm not
(22:44):
with him. So he's out. Duffy ends up stepping in
as acting NASA administrator and maybe wanting to fold it
into Department of Transportation, and a bunch of space guys
were like, no, no, no, let's not do that. Let's get
Isaacman back in. So Isaacman comes back to talk to
try at the end of twenty twenty five, and he's
renominated in December of twenty twenty five, at which point
(23:08):
Trump says, the day he's voted on and confirmed, we're
going to the Moon by twenty twenty eight, and then
how many months later, four months later, they're on their
way to the distance of the Moon. Yeah, with a
plan to be back on the Moon in twenty thirty.
And I just think that's that's.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Amazing, It's incredible. I you know, my youngest son is
super into this. He's the sport do you want to
talk about. He's just not the one I thought would
be like obsessed with this, but he cannot get enough.
He wants to see every video, he wants to see
every picture, he wants to hear every story about the astronauts.
And I'm like, do you want to be an astronaut?
(23:49):
He's like, not at all, but this is really cool.
He's pinn so you know, he was like, I want
to be an astronaut. That would be totally normal. But
he's like, no, thanks, I just want to watch from here.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Well, and I just think like Isaacman specifically has been
involved in commercial spaceflight. He's been to space a couple
of times. He came into NASA with a desire to
restructure and make things work efficiently and in concert with
private companies, and the fact that we're probably going to
have people on the moon before Newsom creates a mile
(24:24):
of high speed rail, like just.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Again, having been betrayed by many institutions and thinking the
government is generally kind of crappy in so so many ways,
it's nice to see these things happen.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Well. Success is really amazing to see. And again, would
you and I have been rooting for this any less
if Joe Biden was president, no president, we would be
just as excited that this artemist two crew are going
to be the first people ever to see the dark
side of the moon. Like, that's crazy, that's amazing, that's
us doing it. We're so awesome, Like, how could you
(25:02):
not love this country? How could you not love our
ambitions and the way that we want to do everything.
It's just it's awesome to be an American. I would
have felt the exact same way if a Democrat were president.
The fact that a Democrat is not president is neither
here nor there to me. It's just amazing to see
this happen. Well, Donald Trump deserves the credit he does.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
He does. And by the way, part of the NATO discussion,
as Trump got mad about NATO allies not letting us
use bases and airspace, I think warranted. Some of the
conversation came from Europeans saying basically like, look look at
the audacity of these people, like we run it down,
(25:44):
we make fun of it, we hold it in contempt
while they protect us.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
But look at what they're doing, right, And that's those
are our Europeans, you know exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
And then you know they popped to the top of
the algorithm for me, I'm sure, but it's a real
thing that we own the seas for a reason. We
are able to do things and hold ourselves to standards
or try impossible things on purpose as a national spirit.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
With celebrating that that's what we should be doing. It's
just again such a patriotic year, turning two point fifty.
This country's amazing, We're doing amazing things. I'm just very
very high on the country right now. And again, any
American listening to this should feel the same way. I
don't know that anybody should be feeling differently if they
(26:37):
are politically not aligned. I just it's amazing. Mark and
Dreason tweeted, I have never been so bullish on the
United States of America. That's exactly how I feel.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Can we real quick to close this out? Just play
a minute or two of Victor Glover The Reason I'm
a fangirl now. He said several profound things, but he
was asked as they were flying past Earth from above
over Easter, if he had any thoughts about, you know,
the world and life and existence, and without preparation, he
(27:09):
had this to say.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
I'm glad you brought that up, though, I think these
observances are important, and as we are so far from
Earth and looking back at you know, the beauty of creation.
I think the for me, one of the really important
personal perspectives that I have up here is I can
really see Earth as one thing. And you know, when
I read the Bible and I look at all of
the amazing things that were done for us who were created,
(27:33):
it's you have this amazing place, this spaceship. You guys
are talking to us because we're in a spaceship really
far from Earth, but you're on a spaceship called Earth
that was created to give us a place to live
in the universe and the cosmos. Think maybe the distance
we are from you makes you think what we're doing
is special, But we're the same distance from you, and
(27:54):
I'm trying to tell you, just trust me, you are special.
In all of this emptiness. This is a whole nothing,
this thing we call the universe, you have this oasis,
this beautiful place that we get to exist together. I
think as we go into Easter Sunday, thinking about, you know,
all the cultures all around the world, whether you celebrated
or not, whether you believe in God or not, this
(28:15):
is an opportunity for us to remember where we are,
who we are, and that we are the same thing,
and that we got to get through this together.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Just gorgeous. It's so well done, and he sounds so
deep and wise.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Well.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
He's got quite a resume, and he has a lovely
wife and four daughters, and just so lovely to see
people animated by good things, doing seemingly impossible tasks. And
thank you for using all your training to inspire me.
Both American military service people and astronauts love it.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I am.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
He, by the way, is also a veteran. He's a
US Navy captain.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Amazing, Keep winning America. Where's vooting for us? All the way?
We'll be right back with more on normally.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
All right, we are back on normally with I mean,
really the exact opposite side of the coin from the
people who are doing impossible things. The New York Times
reported this weekend on a segment of people who student
debt burdened them so they moved abroad and stopped paying.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
They took out loans for a product and then didn't
pay for them, and we're supposed to feel sorry for them.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
I like the passive voice. They were burdened by the
loans they took out. It opens with this poor woman
who I'm going to be mean about. Amanda Lin Tully.
She graduated in twenty seventeen with a master's degree in
historic preservation from the University of Oregon sixty five thousand
dollars in federal student loans. So that's us guaranteeing it
(29:59):
and no offers in the conservation field, No kidden? Are
there not a ton of jobs in historic conservation anyway?
Less than a year after graduating, was Tully made a
drastic decision. Less than a year she moved to Prague,
where she completed an internship, and defaulted on her loans.
She hasn't made a payment in over seven years. Well,
(30:19):
it must have been very burdensome financially, Carol. No, let
me tell you how much she was paying per year
or per month. Sixty bucks.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, that sounds a weight she could not bear.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Miss Tully was on an income based repayment plan, which
allows mini borrowers to have their remaining debt forgiven after
twenty years of making qualifying payments. She was paying sixty
dollars per month when she defaulted. This amount to many,
The New York Times says may seem manageable, but for her,
it remained psychologically brundsome.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Sorry, she was so psychologically burdened. Of course we're all
going to have to pay Bagcarlan for her.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
So now I'm psychologically burdened by the sixty dollars per
month I could be using for like juice boxes or
whatever the heck I need to buy.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah, that's the thing. It's like New York Times will
never say in these pieces the colleges that promised them
something they couldn't deliver should be the ones paying for this.
It's always like, how terrible is this system, and that
the rest of us should just forgive them, forgive these loans.
Even though people, you know, they live at home, They
don't go to schools that have fancy brand names, they
(31:28):
don't go into degrees that sound ridiculous and are ridiculous.
They work during college. All of that people do, and
they end up graduating with no debt, only to pay
off this lady's debt because she defaulted on it.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, you know, I made the decisions that allowed me
to be debt free, right. I didn't go to a
super expensive school. I didn't take out a bunch of loans.
Those were decisions I made when I had other things
on the table, and now I end up covering for
people who didn't make those decisions because they decided, well,
someone else will pay it for me. Right, And by
(32:03):
the way, there's already been a break for four years
from payments because of COVID, which was illegal to begin
with and shouldn't have happened. Yeah, and at some point
I believe it is our friend bridget Fetese, and I
will censor myself a bit. Who's like, you're being a
whiney bee. You just need to suck it up and
(32:25):
pay your sixty bucks. Now, some of these people were
sold a bill of goods, as you say, by the colleges.
They would not have been sold this bill of goods
had we not made all college loans federally backed, which
would mean that then banks would have a reason to
judge whether these loans were worth giving to people who
might not get jobs, and then they might not get
as much money.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Right. Right. We've just become this culture where everybody has
to go to college and it costs a lot of money,
and it's not worth it for a lot of people,
Like when my kids even half engaged with the I
don't know if I want to go to college. I'm like,
I'm listening, like, well, what are we thinking? You know,
and every kid is going to have a different path.
(33:06):
I think that we need to get off of this
everybody has to go to college thing. College is very
rarely about education anymore. It has almost nothing to do
with what field you're going to work in. It just
it never translates into making a lot of money unless
you go to one of the top top schools, and
you could only go there if you really have the
money to pay for it. Because if you don't have
(33:28):
the money to pay for it, you're you're going to
set yourself up to have this massive debt and count
on the rest of the country to pay it for you.
It's just not for And I.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
See reels occasionally or tiktoks where people sort of gripe about,
for instance, immigrant parents who are hard on their kids
and say, if you go to college, you can go
in these three degree areas.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
But that's the right decision. You're you're making a calculation
that my kid is going to go in a law
degree or an engineering degree or medical because those will
pay back what I am investing. How you should think
about it?
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Yeah, I'm writing something about about colleges right now. I mean,
I you know, writing is hard, guys. Writing is really hard,
especially when it's like for your substack, which I feel like,
you know, no deadlines means I can write this forever.
But about what colleges should be about. And the fact that, yeah,
my parents were like, these three professions are the ones
(34:22):
that we would like for you to go into. And
because I chose something else, I did do myself a
lot of damage. I did get into debt. I had
a lot of problems setting up my life because I
went into a career that my parents didn't understand. So
you could take the chance you can, but it's going
to come with some hard moments.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Or like, by the way, at the end of this
article is a guide to better managing your money from
the New York Times things.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I think the ship has sailed for many of these folks.
But the main thing is, like, you want to spend
less than you make, and you want to not burden
yourself with giant, giant loans that you then skip out
on it. Yeah, this is not what I don't understand.
This isn't an indictment of America. This is an indictment
of the people who haven't paid the lungs.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Right, absolutely, I have no point. I'm like America should
do something about this, like the schools should do something
about it. New York Times should pressure the schools to
do something about it. They have these giant endowments, they
take federal funds. They should not let their students flounder
like this. I agree. Well, thanks for joining us on
Normally Normally eres Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you could subscribe
(35:27):
anywhere you get your podcast. Let's get in touch with
us at normallythepod at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening,
and when things get weird, you act normally.
Hey guys, we are backing normally, so we normally taking
for wedda the news just weird.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Kathrin am awful week of being very normy by checking
out of the news.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
I love checking out of the news. I am Carol Markowitz.
We held down the fort here at normally while Mary
Katherine was you know, touching grass, living her life whatever.
Bridget Fetesy filled in on Wednesday and she did a
fantastic job.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I mean gonna be hard to top her.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Thanks a lot for jea welcome back, Mary Catherine. She
also celebrated Mary Catherine celebrated her birthday over the weekend
on Easter Sunday and wrote a really beautiful post on
X about it, and you should definitely go check it out.
Happy birthday, Mary Catherine.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Thank you very much. I had a lovely day with
my family.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
It was a wild weekend. It was really a lot
going on your birthday Easter Sunday, and then of course
the rescue of the down F fifteen weapons systems officer.
The pilot was of course rescued right away on Friday.
And then the weapon systems officer are a wizzo, as
(01:14):
I'm told he is called on the Google was missing
for twenty four hours plus, and it was really touch
and go on X whether or not he was recovered,
and we were all obviously holding our breath and very afraid.
But we woke up on Sunday morning to news from
the White House saying he had been you know, found
(01:37):
and was alive and was on his way home.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Ah, you're saying he was lost on Good Friday and
found on Easter Sunday. Crazy, what a story I was. Again,
I was sort of checked out and clued into the
end of this story, so I missed the suspense in
the middle, which without that it is astounding what our
(02:04):
military is capable of astounding. We have these.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Super fan haters on X, which I appreciate so much.
I really do think it's the haters that keep us going.
But we got some comments like why haven't you and
I commented on him while he was missing, and for me,
I was holding my breath and praying, And that's why
I wasn't going to comment on something that I was
(02:31):
hoping played out in a positive fashion and was praying
real hard that it wasn't going to play on in
a negative fashion. So what was I supposed to comment on?
You were you know, again touching the grass.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Also, this is such an interesting reaction from people, and
we're going to go through the details of this rescue.
But in the moment where one of our service members
is lost in a foreign and hostile country we don't
know where and possibly could be dead, I'm like you, Carol,
I'm just praying that this person is returned safely, and
(03:05):
we know that the stakes are high. There was an
interesting moment from Tim Kaine, who is my Virginia senator,
a Democrat, who tweeted, we are trying to rescue a
downed American and around excess excess boasts about no quarter,
no mercy at acting stupid rules of engagement. I mean,
we have to hope that Iran follows the humanitarian laws
(03:25):
that US leaders now dismiss. Okay, right, So he's mad
that the guy has lost, except he's mostly mad about politics,
it sounds like. And then Guy Benson points up, no
update has senator? Is this a disappointing outcome for you, Renny?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
And he's also assuming that Iran is going to be
humanitarian towards our guy.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Or that followed rules.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, like Iran pays for hamas have you seen what
Hamas did to the people that they captured on October seven.
You think that they're going to get our down officer
and treat him nicely, and they might not because of
Pete Hegseth like being blustery.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Come on, no, it's it's a ridiculous point of view.
And I one of the things I love about being
conservative is that I can have uncomplicated and joyful feelings
about the birth of babies, about America being great, and
about American military dominance, and a pilot and other the
(04:27):
weapon services we excuse me, weapons systems officer being rescued
in valiant style from hostile territory. I have uncomplicated, excited, joyful,
glad feelings about that.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
It's really funny that you say that, because I also
noticed that the whole you know, woke right, whatever you
want to call them, they are clearly having these complicated
feelings where just recently, when they were firmly on the
right and they were normal, they wouldn't have been even
if they didn't support the mission in Iran, they would
understan in that getting the officer back would be amazing
(05:03):
and like a moment of joy. And they're just so
perplexed and confused about where they're supposed to be. I mean,
Joe Kent shared a nonsense post from drop site which
is like this Russian propaganda paid site, quoting Iranian propaganda
that claimed that the US was trying to kill the
lost pilot, and he was like, and I pray for
(05:25):
his recovery. Well, which is it is the US trying
to kill the pilot or are you hoping for his recovery? Like?
What are you sharing here? And I think that confusion
is really obvious in a lot of people. They don't
know what they're supposed to feel anymore because they are
rooting against the mission, they're rooting against the president, and
the rooting against the country.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. I don't want to mince words
about it, because it seems fairly obvious that that's what's happening.
That for someone like Kane, who may have updated in
the meantime, but did not update quickly and excitedly about
this for Kane, and it was ideologically inconvenient and politically
inconvenient that this didn't turn out badly. Right now, there
(06:07):
are some also who say it did turn out badly
because you lost an aircraft and then you lost two
other aircraft leaving you had to spend all this. Yeah,
we spend all of that to get one airman back.
That's what we do, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
It's just the last few days have been like being
in a super patriotic movie. I mean, in fact, the
whole Trump administration so far has been, for me, very
patriotic movie.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Coded.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
You just feel like raw, raw America in so many
different ways, and it's just it's been amazing to watch.
I think that people don't get that we would have
rooted for the same outcome if Joe Biden was president.
I remember being devastated about what happened in Afghanistan to
lost military members there, and had that gone successfully, I
(06:57):
would have been happy, and it wouldn't have been hard
to be happy. It's not what we do. We root
for our servicemen and women, we root for our country.
It's not that complicated.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I think we have a longish clip from Trey Yanks
reporting from the Middle East about this operation, and it's
going to give you about three minutes of explanation, but
I feel like we need it and we want it,
so take it away. Trey.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
It was a daring rescue operations. Sources both in the
United States and here in Israel have described it to
Fox News as one for the history books. We can
exclusively report. It was on Saturday morning that the CIA
was able to confirm and locate the missing airmen.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
The CIA was.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Concerned that this was a trick by the Iranians to
try and lure in US special forces and attack them.
But once they were able to use advanced technology to
confirm not only that this was the identity of the airmen,
but also the location, that message was delivered to the
Secretary of War and the Joint Chiefs Chairman and ultimately
the President, I am told by a senior US official.
(08:00):
You look at the timeline here. It was late Thursday
night into Friday when that F fifteen E fighter jet
was shot down over the skies of southwestern Iran. The
pilot of that jet was recovered on Friday by US
special forces, but that weapons systems officer had to spend
up to two days evading Iranian capture. They activated that
emergency beacon. It was confirmed by the CIA, who at
(08:22):
the same time was running the deception campaign, and then
ultimately it was the President, I am told who made
the decision, and within twelve hours there were US forces
on the ground inside of Iran conducting the rescue mission.
As it relates to the CIA deception campaign, I am
told by a senior US official, the CIA leaked through
multiple sources that they were trying to move a valuable
(08:43):
package out of the country through a maritime xfil This
was meant to draw the Iranians away from the area
where the US crew member was located. I'm told that
deception campaign worked coupled with the fire from the air
and those drones targeting anyone who approached this area. There
was that major concern as the clock was ticking and
they were searching for this missing US crew member. Now
(09:04):
the Wall Street Journal Today is reporting the complex mission
quickly ran into problems, officials said. As the US redirected
aircraft in the region to help with the mission, some
planned targets, including missile launcher sites, were left untouched that
allowed around to fire more weapons than usual in recent days.
Officials said. The first attempt to rescue the airman had
to be aborted. Two eight six helicopters took small arms
(09:26):
fire from the ground, wounding the crews in both aircraft
and requiring them to land safely in Kuwaiti airspace. Now,
as this was taking place, the Israelis were watching closely
and coordinating behind the scenes. Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Ett
Yahoo said this overnight quote. I spoke earlier with President
Trump and personally congratulated him on his bold decision and
a perfectly executed American mission to rescue the down pilot
(09:48):
from enemy territory. The President expressed his appreciation for Israel's help.
I am deeply proud that our cooperation on and off
the battlefield is unprecedented and that Israel could contribute to
saving a brave Ama American warrior. So Bill and Dana,
this speaks to the coordination not only between the Americans
and the Israelis.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
But also the US military.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I spoke with sources here and they said the credit
belongs to the US military. This was what they described
as an excellent coordinated operation to use the willpower and
the fighting force of US Special Forces, coupled with the
intelligence apparatus of the United States to go deep into
enemy territory with more than one hundred US Special Forces
and rescue this F fifteen crew member over the weekend.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
It's just so amazing. I can't get over what a
complicated operation it was and how flawlessly it was executed. Again,
the idea that we lost planes or something, This is
what we do to get our guide back. This is
what America is. We've sort of forgotten that. And I look,
no one is more surprised than me that it's Donald
(10:52):
Trump bringing it all back to us and making us
feel like we're in like Iron Eagle or Top Gun.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
But here we are.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
You know, this guy Paul and laterner on X posted
twenty twenty six, has given us some iconic images and
he posted a picture of Jack Hughes with the American
flag and I Artemis taking off. And then Jesse arm
who's at the Manhattan Institute, he posted missing two of
my favorites, and it was a police officer jumping over
(11:21):
the fence to stop the bombers in New York City.
And then also Maduro on the plane back to the US.
Those four images, and it's only April. It's just it
hasn't been that long. It's just incredible year. Our two
hundred and fiftieth year feels so insanely pro America and
(11:41):
just patriotic. My kids are like, you're always saying that
you're very patriotic, but I have extra patriotic right now.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
No, I mean again, it is so fun to be
excited about these moments. That's to be excited about this,
to hear about a man who is perhaps you know,
near death, hiking a seven thousand foot cliff line to
hide himself and use the proper technology and all of
(12:09):
his training to make sure that Americans can find him
while the Iranians cannot find him. The CIA working in
tandem with the military and doing what it's supposed to do,
the military doing perfectly what it's supposed to do. And
then there are people who say, like, oh, you think
this is a success. You lost these two guys over
hostile territory, and then they were extracted using all this money,
(12:31):
and you had to blow up to sea one thirties
on the way out because they stalled and you didn't
want to give them over to the enemy. One, if
you're spiritually American, you understand that of course that's what
we do. We do no man left behind. We like,
this is what we do. Two. I would just like
to remind everyone that seventy plus aircraft were left at
Bagram in Afghanistan seventy plus. Yeah, aircraft, that doesn't even
(12:56):
count all the other things. Okay, and some of them
were disabled, but like, what are these people doing running
down in operation that rescues an American hero without casualties
except for the C one thirty. By the way, this
is another marker of our greatness and prosperity that we
(13:18):
have an air force that has many, many, thousands of planes.
We're not like Britain with seventy nine.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
I don't know what the actual number it is, you
know what I'm saying, right, somebody posted like, yeah, it's
because this is not our entire air force, like it's yours.
But this is like the people over things thing that
you tell your children, like in a fire or in
a dangerous situation, don't care about your things, don't care
about anything but people. You save the people. This on
(13:47):
a larger scale is what we're all about, and it's important.
It's an important lesson. You don't want to be the
kind of people who won't save your fellow countrymen because
you're afraid to lose a plane. Who cares about that plane?
Lose all the plane and get the person back.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
By the way, when you are acting as a normy
who's checked out of the news cycle, and you check
back in for the glorious rescue of this person. And
then someone tells you and it eventually dawns on you
that people are having a negative reaction to this. Your
normy brain goes, I'm sorry, what right? How? How?
Speaker 1 (14:21):
How So Thursday and Friday we're passover, the first two
nights to pass over, so Orthodox Jews were offline. I
am not Orthodox, I was very much online. And then Saturday,
obviously is another day that Orthodox Jews are offline. So
it's three days of Orthodox Jews being offline. Ron Coleman
comes back on on Saturday and says, what did I miss?
(14:43):
Redste's sums it up for him. He's like, blue Sky
thinks Trump is at Walter Reed, which is another insane
gosh all, Like he is hospitalized for sure. He hass
not golfing today. Therefore he is in the hospital dying
right now. It's like we're at war, we're missing one
of our officers, like he is working on it. I
(15:04):
don't have to love Donald Trump, you don't have to
care about him.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Don't be crazy.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Anyway, Red Ste's Blue Sky thinks Trump is at Walter
read no one knows if the down pilot was rescued
or not, not the pilot but the weapons officer and
now or not thanks to slap engagement accounts. And the
Artemis shitter is out of order again, which, well.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
That's Artemis in the next segment. No, it's I just
am am blown away by several operations. I mean Midnight Hammer,
the first bombing run and Iran the Venezuela extraction of Maduro.
And this all three done without loss of personnel, which
(15:47):
is shocking. Yeah, and that that doesn't that doesn't dismiss
that there have been personnel that have been lost in
other parts of the Iranian engagement. But to do those
three things, yeah, so close to absolutely flawlessly.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Again, having been betrayed by so many institutions over the
past fifteen years or so, it is inspiring to see
them work this way exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
And look, this is airing on Tuesday, which Donald Trump
has declared power Plant and Bridge Day in Iran.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Speaking of Donald Trump's special qualities, I would have appreciated
a different kind of Easter post. Just one out there,
thanks sir.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
So he posted Tuesday will be Powerplant Day and Bridge
Day all wrapped and won, and Iran, there'll be nothing
like it.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Open the f and.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Straight you crazy bastards are you've been living in hell?
Just watch Praise Be to Allah President Donald J. Trump.
A lot of people didn't like it, even a lot
of my conservative friends didn't like it. I like it.
I don't care. I like it. He comes off as
absolutely batshit crazy, and Iran does not know what to
expect from him, Like, who knows what this guy is
going to do? He can have power Plant Day and
(17:02):
Bridge Day beyond Monday. They don't know what's coming.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Is Praise be to Allah the new Thank you for
your attention to this matter. Maybe no, the cultivation of
the Madman theory overseas certainly is helpful, and the ongoing
threat to the straight off her moves into the world
economy is of course perilous. It is why you know.
(17:29):
I think Donald Trump is convinced to continue fighting to
get some kind of agreement from whoever is the last
man standing after we continue to lop off people from
the top of the regime. I did to hear some
reports about this rescue that locals were helpful by protecting
(17:51):
the area, that this American had hidden himself, which is
again inspiring, because this is one of those situations where
the country that we're bombing, many of the people inside
the country were bombing are very happy, in fact, happier
that we're doing it than Americans are in some cases.
But I do think, you know, we're still in the
(18:11):
what comes next phase and he's trying to communicate to
whoever's left in charge, right, we will continue.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I'm crazy, don't mess with us, like is the communication,
and I'm mostly here for it. Really. Look, I don't
always love the Trump crazy tweets. In fact, I barely
often do, not especially on holidays and times the.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Holiday ones get me. I'm like, can we just do
two separate ones, the crazy one and the normal.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I'm just a regular one. But I like this and
I think we're It sends a you don't know what
to expect from me message about the Strait of hermos
I read this interesting thing that I just wanted to
share with our listeners. Antonio Garcia Martinez was a really
great follow on x He tweeted a research port about
(19:01):
the the Strait of her Moos. Here's what he writes.
Hilarious on the ground reporting from the strait of her moves,
showing way more ships transitting than commonly believed. Because everyone
is believing the AIS transponder data, the fishing boats fifty
miles off the Oregon coast turn off their AIS to
avoid disclosing their best spots. I had to sail through
(19:21):
them at night and discover the hard way. A lot
of people manage lots of money, and I've never spent
a day at sea. I have never spent a day
at sea, so I do not know what the AIS
transponder data, whether it's real or how it works or whatever.
But apparently there are more ships going through than we
are led to believe.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
So yeah, I have heard that from several people. And
I have spent, you know, several days on a bass
boat in my life, so I think that I love it.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
My favorite song right now is bass Boat by Zach Ryant.
Very very good. All right, We're going to take a
short break and be right back with.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
More American greatness.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
America, America all the way, America all the time. Be
right back. We are back on normally where in a
few minutes when we're recording this, the Artemis is going
to round the moon? Is that am I saying that correct? America?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
I think that's correct.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Okay, it's been incredible. I'm not a space person. I'm
really I have never been like super fascinated by space.
But I am all in on all of these people.
The four of them are just amazing and magical and hilarious,
and I can't get enough.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
They are great. I am a Victor Glover fangirl, and
I only regret that I have not spent many more
years being a Victor Glover fangirl, because apparently I could
have earlier, and I just missed it. I again was
a little bit checked out, and my husband luckily flagged
this for the kids and me and said, like, come
watch the launch now. I will say I am of
the exact age as you are as well, probably although
(20:58):
you had just come to America maybe around this time.
I'm of the exact age to be very traumatized by Challenger,
and so watching a rocket launch does not feel as
magical to me, I think, as too many other people.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah hold my breath for sure. I mean yeah, I'm right, very.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Nervous about it. So but I came up to watch
with my kids and I wanted to experience it and
then I think, perhaps because of Challenger, I'm not that
interested in space. It scares me. I have no desire
to go. I'm not a person who wants to be
on Blue Origin at all. No, thank you, Jeff Bezos,
if you were looking into me, I'm gonna no. I
don't want to do it. I have no desire, but
(21:40):
I like that other people do. I'm excited that they
do that me too. However, then you, like you said, Carol,
you start digging into this and just the absolute beautiful
enormity of it, and the character of these people who
are on this craft and the dangerous thing they're doing,
and they're beautiful families. And also this came. I looked
(22:01):
back at the Jared Isaacman timeline, and I don't remember
if you and I talked about this on normally, but
he's his nomination to NASA Administrator administrator was a little
bit hinky for this reason. So he was nominated really early,
when like right after Trump took office, like in December
of twenty twenty, or right after he was elected, before
(22:23):
he was even in office. He was on the list early,
and then he got knocked off the list later in
April or May of twenty twenty five because of the
fight that Elon and Trump got in because Isaacman was
close to Elon and he had donated to some Democrats
in the past, and Trump was like, nah, I'm not
(22:44):
with him. So he's out. Duffy ends up stepping in
as acting NASA administrator and maybe wanting to fold it
into Department of Transportation, and a bunch of space guys
were like, no, no, no, let's not do that. Let's get
Isaacman back in. So Isaacman comes back to talk to
try at the end of twenty twenty five, and he's
renominated in December of twenty twenty five, at which point
(23:08):
Trump says, the day he's voted on and confirmed, we're
going to the Moon by twenty twenty eight, and then
how many months later, four months later, they're on their
way to the distance of the Moon. Yeah, with a
plan to be back on the Moon in twenty thirty.
And I just think that's that's.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Amazing, It's incredible. I you know, my youngest son is
super into this. He's the sport do you want to
talk about. He's just not the one I thought would
be like obsessed with this, but he cannot get enough.
He wants to see every video, he wants to see
every picture, he wants to hear every story about the astronauts.
And I'm like, do you want to be an astronaut?
(23:49):
He's like, not at all, but this is really cool.
He's pinn so you know, he was like, I want
to be an astronaut. That would be totally normal. But
he's like, no, thanks, I just want to watch from here.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Well, and I just think like Isaacman specifically has been
involved in commercial spaceflight. He's been to space a couple
of times. He came into NASA with a desire to
restructure and make things work efficiently and in concert with
private companies, and the fact that we're probably going to
have people on the moon before Newsom creates a mile
(24:24):
of high speed rail, like just.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Again, having been betrayed by many institutions and thinking the
government is generally kind of crappy in so so many ways,
it's nice to see these things happen.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Well. Success is really amazing to see. And again, would
you and I have been rooting for this any less
if Joe Biden was president, no president, we would be
just as excited that this artemist two crew are going
to be the first people ever to see the dark
side of the moon. Like, that's crazy, that's amazing, that's
us doing it. We're so awesome, Like, how could you
(25:02):
not love this country? How could you not love our
ambitions and the way that we want to do everything.
It's just it's awesome to be an American. I would
have felt the exact same way if a Democrat were president.
The fact that a Democrat is not president is neither
here nor there to me. It's just amazing to see
this happen. Well, Donald Trump deserves the credit he does.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
He does. And by the way, part of the NATO discussion,
as Trump got mad about NATO allies not letting us
use bases and airspace, I think warranted. Some of the
conversation came from Europeans saying basically like, look look at
the audacity of these people, like we run it down,
(25:44):
we make fun of it, we hold it in contempt
while they protect us.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
But look at what they're doing, right, And that's those
are our Europeans, you know exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
And then you know they popped to the top of
the algorithm for me, I'm sure, but it's a real
thing that we own the seas for a reason. We
are able to do things and hold ourselves to standards
or try impossible things on purpose as a national spirit.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
With celebrating that that's what we should be doing. It's
just again such a patriotic year, turning two point fifty.
This country's amazing, We're doing amazing things. I'm just very
very high on the country right now. And again, any
American listening to this should feel the same way. I
don't know that anybody should be feeling differently if they
(26:37):
are politically not aligned. I just it's amazing. Mark and
Dreason tweeted, I have never been so bullish on the
United States of America. That's exactly how I feel.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Can we real quick to close this out? Just play
a minute or two of Victor Glover The Reason I'm
a fangirl now. He said several profound things, but he
was asked as they were flying past Earth from above
over Easter, if he had any thoughts about, you know,
the world and life and existence, and without preparation, he
(27:09):
had this to say.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
I'm glad you brought that up, though, I think these
observances are important, and as we are so far from
Earth and looking back at you know, the beauty of creation.
I think the for me, one of the really important
personal perspectives that I have up here is I can
really see Earth as one thing. And you know, when
I read the Bible and I look at all of
the amazing things that were done for us who were created,
(27:33):
it's you have this amazing place, this spaceship. You guys
are talking to us because we're in a spaceship really
far from Earth, but you're on a spaceship called Earth
that was created to give us a place to live
in the universe and the cosmos. Think maybe the distance
we are from you makes you think what we're doing
is special, But we're the same distance from you, and
(27:54):
I'm trying to tell you, just trust me, you are special.
In all of this emptiness. This is a whole nothing,
this thing we call the universe, you have this oasis,
this beautiful place that we get to exist together. I
think as we go into Easter Sunday, thinking about, you know,
all the cultures all around the world, whether you celebrated
or not, whether you believe in God or not, this
(28:15):
is an opportunity for us to remember where we are,
who we are, and that we are the same thing,
and that we got to get through this together.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Just gorgeous. It's so well done, and he sounds so
deep and wise.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Well.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
He's got quite a resume, and he has a lovely
wife and four daughters, and just so lovely to see
people animated by good things, doing seemingly impossible tasks. And
thank you for using all your training to inspire me.
Both American military service people and astronauts love it.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I am.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
He, by the way, is also a veteran. He's a
US Navy captain.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Amazing, Keep winning America. Where's vooting for us? All the way?
We'll be right back with more on normally.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
All right, we are back on normally with I mean,
really the exact opposite side of the coin from the
people who are doing impossible things. The New York Times
reported this weekend on a segment of people who student
debt burdened them so they moved abroad and stopped paying.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
They took out loans for a product and then didn't
pay for them, and we're supposed to feel sorry for them.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
I like the passive voice. They were burdened by the
loans they took out. It opens with this poor woman
who I'm going to be mean about. Amanda Lin Tully.
She graduated in twenty seventeen with a master's degree in
historic preservation from the University of Oregon sixty five thousand
dollars in federal student loans. So that's us guaranteeing it
(29:59):
and no offers in the conservation field, No kidden? Are
there not a ton of jobs in historic conservation anyway?
Less than a year after graduating, was Tully made a
drastic decision. Less than a year she moved to Prague,
where she completed an internship, and defaulted on her loans.
She hasn't made a payment in over seven years. Well,
(30:19):
it must have been very burdensome financially, Carol. No, let
me tell you how much she was paying per year
or per month. Sixty bucks.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, that sounds a weight she could not bear.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Miss Tully was on an income based repayment plan, which
allows mini borrowers to have their remaining debt forgiven after
twenty years of making qualifying payments. She was paying sixty
dollars per month when she defaulted. This amount to many,
The New York Times says may seem manageable, but for her,
it remained psychologically brundsome.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Sorry, she was so psychologically burdened. Of course we're all
going to have to pay Bagcarlan for her.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
So now I'm psychologically burdened by the sixty dollars per
month I could be using for like juice boxes or
whatever the heck I need to buy.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yeah, that's the thing. It's like New York Times will
never say in these pieces the colleges that promised them
something they couldn't deliver should be the ones paying for this.
It's always like, how terrible is this system, and that
the rest of us should just forgive them, forgive these loans.
Even though people, you know, they live at home, They
don't go to schools that have fancy brand names, they
(31:28):
don't go into degrees that sound ridiculous and are ridiculous.
They work during college. All of that people do, and
they end up graduating with no debt, only to pay
off this lady's debt because she defaulted on it.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, you know, I made the decisions that allowed me
to be debt free, right. I didn't go to a
super expensive school. I didn't take out a bunch of loans.
Those were decisions I made when I had other things
on the table, and now I end up covering for
people who didn't make those decisions because they decided, well,
someone else will pay it for me. Right, And by
(32:03):
the way, there's already been a break for four years
from payments because of COVID, which was illegal to begin
with and shouldn't have happened. Yeah, and at some point
I believe it is our friend bridget Fetese, and I
will censor myself a bit. Who's like, you're being a
whiney bee. You just need to suck it up and
(32:25):
pay your sixty bucks. Now, some of these people were
sold a bill of goods, as you say, by the colleges.
They would not have been sold this bill of goods
had we not made all college loans federally backed, which
would mean that then banks would have a reason to
judge whether these loans were worth giving to people who
might not get jobs, and then they might not get
as much money.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Right. Right. We've just become this culture where everybody has
to go to college and it costs a lot of money,
and it's not worth it for a lot of people,
Like when my kids even half engaged with the I
don't know if I want to go to college. I'm like,
I'm listening, like, well, what are we thinking? You know,
and every kid is going to have a different path.
(33:06):
I think that we need to get off of this
everybody has to go to college thing. College is very
rarely about education anymore. It has almost nothing to do
with what field you're going to work in. It just
it never translates into making a lot of money unless
you go to one of the top top schools, and
you could only go there if you really have the
money to pay for it. Because if you don't have
(33:28):
the money to pay for it, you're you're going to
set yourself up to have this massive debt and count
on the rest of the country to pay it for you.
It's just not for And I.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
See reels occasionally or tiktoks where people sort of gripe about,
for instance, immigrant parents who are hard on their kids
and say, if you go to college, you can go
in these three degree areas.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
But that's the right decision. You're you're making a calculation
that my kid is going to go in a law
degree or an engineering degree or medical because those will
pay back what I am investing. How you should think
about it?
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Yeah, I'm writing something about about colleges right now. I mean,
I you know, writing is hard, guys. Writing is really hard,
especially when it's like for your substack, which I feel like,
you know, no deadlines means I can write this forever.
But about what colleges should be about. And the fact that, yeah,
my parents were like, these three professions are the ones
(34:22):
that we would like for you to go into. And
because I chose something else, I did do myself a
lot of damage. I did get into debt. I had
a lot of problems setting up my life because I
went into a career that my parents didn't understand. So
you could take the chance you can, but it's going
to come with some hard moments.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Or like, by the way, at the end of this
article is a guide to better managing your money from
the New York Times things.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I think the ship has sailed for many of these folks.
But the main thing is, like, you want to spend
less than you make, and you want to not burden
yourself with giant, giant loans that you then skip out
on it. Yeah, this is not what I don't understand.
This isn't an indictment of America. This is an indictment
of the people who haven't paid the lungs.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Right, absolutely, I have no point. I'm like America should
do something about this, like the schools should do something
about it. New York Times should pressure the schools to
do something about it. They have these giant endowments, they
take federal funds. They should not let their students flounder
like this. I agree. Well, thanks for joining us on
Normally Normally eres Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you could subscribe
(35:27):
anywhere you get your podcast. Let's get in touch with
us at normallythepod at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening,
and when things get weird, you act normally.
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