Congresswoman Elise Stefanik joins Karol Markowicz to discuss her bestselling new book, Poisoned Ivy, and the growing controversy surrounding America's elite universities. Stefanik reflects on the congressional hearing that sparked national debate over campus anti-Semitism, the fallout from her viral exchange with former Harvard president Claudine Gay, and why she believes higher education has strayed from its founding mission.
The conversation explores the rise of ideological activism on college campuses, the challenges facing students and parents navigating the admissions process, and the institutions Stefanik believes are getting it right. She also shares her concerns about the growing influence of socialism, her optimism for American innovation, and why reading remains one of the most important habits for personal growth and leadership.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
My guest today is Representative at Least Stephonic, the author
of the best selling new book Poisoned IVS, the inside
account of the academic and moral rot at America's elite universities.
So nice to have you on, Representative Stephanic.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Carol, I'm so excited to join your show. I've followed
so much of the work you've put out your columns
in the New York Post and the most popular paper
in New York State. So excited to join you.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Thank you so much. I think it's the most popular
paper in Florida, where I now live, as well.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
And in America.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
So I have to start with what made you care
about the issue of our best colleges, our most you know,
popular and accomplished colleges going down the drain. What pushed
you to care about them failing well?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I have been a big believer in the power and
the importance of education. Education changed my life. I went
to an all girls' day school. My parents, who didn't
have the opportunity to graduate from college, really invested in
educational opportunity for my brother and I, and that really
has been an experience that I've taken with me throughout
my life. I was the first member of my immediate
(01:21):
family to have that opportunity. I graduated from Harvard, and
while in Congress, sitting on the Education Committee, was increasingly
concerned about how far gone these institutions have become and
how far outside the norm of representing American values. So
I've been on the Education Committee my whole time in Congress.
(01:43):
It was typically known as sort of not one of
the blockbuster committees. But when we saw post October seventh,
the skyrocketing of anti Semitism on our quote most elite institutions,
it was unrecognizable to me, and I really encourage my colleague,
the chair of the committee, Virginia Fox, that we needed
(02:04):
to have a hearing with those university presidents to ask
the tough questions. So I came at it not only
as a believer of the high quality education I got
growing up, but also as a graduate of one of
those institutions that just couldn't believe what was happening. And
also I've focused on combating anti semitism even prior to
(02:25):
this committee hearing, and I don't think anybody anticipated that
it would become the most viewed hearing the rationional history.
But it did, and there was a reason.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, your questions to then Harvard president Claudine Gay really
changed the trajectory of what these schools were doing. And
it was shocking to me how unprepared she was to
answer sort of what I thought were not basic questions,
but in the realm of basic questions. Were you surprised
by her response?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I was extremely surprised, and in fact, Carol, the question
that went viral with over a billion views, it was
not even a prepared question, and I thought it would be.
I tried to word it the most direct and the
most the easiest way possible for a yes or no,
And the question was, does calling for the genocide of
(03:16):
Jews violate your university's code of conduct? I expected they
would say yes, and I was going to feel easy, Yeah, exactly.
I was going to follow up with what disciplinary action
has been taken because the schools weren't enforcing rules. But
I couldn't even get to the follow up because of
their moral equivocation. They said it depends on the context.
It was shocking to me in real time, Yeah, because
(03:38):
calling for the murder of one person would be disqualifying, right,
they would, they would absolutely take some sort of action,
But calling for the murder of a group of people
seemed like it was no big deal.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
And her stammering at that moment gave up so much
of the game. It really showed that she had no
idea what she believed, and she had no idea what
the school itself would do in those situations.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yes, and it's not just if you put in an individual.
If you put in any other demographic group, it would
have elicited a different answer. And that to me highlighted
not only the moral rot and this fulsome embrace of
anti Semitism, but also the academic rot. Because it wasn't
just the Harvard president. I started asking the MIT president.
(04:24):
She equivocated. I asked the PEN president. She said, it's
a context dependent decision, and then I asked the Harvard president.
So it showed the monolithic viewpoints of prestigious higher ed institutions.
And what was really eerie about it. It was the last question.
They stood up and they went on their way, thinking
nothing was wrong about that question. And I called my
(04:46):
staff and said, I think this is going to be
an important question before we even put it out the
c Span footage when it was everywhere. It went viral
and became the most viewed testimony and really set off
an earthquake higher education.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
So you're very into this and you have a lot
of background and knowledge and just general information. Were there
any surprises in writing Poison Divies?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Well, I wrote the book for a few reasons. The
main reason was I felt that the mainstream media would
try to brush this under the rug as a few
instances at a few universities. It was very widespread and
what happens at these very prestigious again quote unquote elite universities.
It has an impact in higher ed written large and
(05:32):
it was challenging. You know, we had a number of hearings,
but when you put it in one volume, it is
a deeply disturbing chapter in American higher education, and anti
Semitism is really the canary in the coal mine for
a tax on Western civilization, at tax on our American values.
So I took the opportunity to do a deep dive
(05:53):
on a few of the institutions. I also highlighted institutions
that are getting it right Dartmouth, Vanderie, University of Florida,
and they are seeing sort of a sea change students
who are going to those universities rather than the Columbius
depends the Harvard's. And then I put forth some policy
solutions addressing the foreign dollars throwing into flowing into higher education,
(06:17):
some of the taxpayer funding leverage that we have because
these schools get billions of dollars of taxpayer funding, as
well as making sure we have full enforcement of the
Civil Rights Act. So it's it's not a typical political book.
A lot of politicians and elected officials to just talk
about themselves and their story. I really wanted to do
a deep dive on an issue, and I added a
(06:38):
little bit about my educational background and my perspective as
a member of Congress how to conduct this effective oversight.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I think that's why it's a bestseller, because it is
not a typical political book that was phoned in. You
seem like you really care about this issue and that
you're again you're very, very knowledgeable in a way that
I think a lot of politicians, I don't want to say,
you know, aren't about the issues that they pretend to
care about, but you clearly have a lot of information.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I want to add one thing that we became the
repository of frankly whistleblowers, all these students and parents and schools.
Because there were examples of faculty, Jewish faculty members, and
even non Jewish faculty members who were raising concerns about
what were happening on these campuses. We became the recipient
of all of that information, and it was important to
(07:27):
put it together not only for the congressional investigation, but
also in a readable form in a book, one book volume,
so that the American people writ large understand what's happening.
And I'll tell you, Carol, it didn't go viral because
it was just Jewish families who were watching it. Oh yeah,
more kids were deeply disturbed about what was happening, and
(07:49):
really the epitome of what happened at that hearing.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I would say that I hear a lot more from
non Jewish parents now worrying about what their kids will
encounter in college. And a lot of the time I
think I used to get a lot of emails from
parents of girls being like, I hope my daughter doesn't
fall into like communism in college, and now I kind
of hear it from boys where the parents are concerned
(08:14):
that their kid is going to be motivated towards anti Semitism.
And it's an interesting shift because Jewish parents, I think
were really shocked after October seventh, but kind of picked
up their you know, they really figured it out quickly
for their children, like they're not going to go to
these schools, They're going to go to these schools. We're
going to move on, whereas I think non Jewish parents
(08:35):
were so stunned by it that they're continuing to kind
of feel the ramifications of that.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Do you see that? I do see that. And it's interesting.
This book came out in April, and so many parents
have reached out to me saying either their kids are
you know, juniors or seniors in high school and starting
this process, and they're saying, we're reading this book to
help us think through as we make our decisions as
our families, and as we talk to our children about
(09:00):
what we hope they will gain from higher ed people
don't want political indoctrination. They want to return to the
founding missions of these schools. And that was an interesting
part about writing this is I could go back to
the founders of Harvard, Penn Columbia and many of these
institutions pre date the founding of our country. Harvard was
(09:20):
founded in sixteen thirty six. The motto was Veritas at
christo et eclesii truth in Christ and the Church. Today
it's veritas truth that to me means a moral truth Penn.
One of the founders was Benjamin Franklin Colombia. Alexander Hamilton's
deep ties. These missions are timeless, but these schools have
(09:41):
lost their way from those founding principles. I really appreciated
that opportunity for me to go back historically as to
why these were important institutions and how we can't totally
abandon them. We need both them accountable while also having
new institutions continue to grow and thrive. But we've got
(10:04):
to change this direction so that they can return to
the founding missions.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
That was going to be my question is whether we
are supposed to abandon these schools and not send our
children there. I have a tenth grader. This is very
much on my mind, and you know, I'm from the
Soviet Union. Jews couldn't go to certain schools there. So
I feel the sense of like my kids are going
to go to any school that they want to and
then we're not going to be pushed away from these schools.
(10:29):
But then I hear the flip side of that, and
I understand it, which is, why would you send your
kids to schools that are unwelcoming to them or that
don't take the mission of free speech and free expression seriously?
What do you make of that?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
You know? It's I get asked this all the time,
and it's a hard question. I think right now today,
I'm very concerned of what the experience will be over
the next couple of years for students at these schools,
because it's going to take a long time to dig out.
I think about my son that I want to make
sure he goes to an institution that's focused on academic
(11:03):
excellence and not this radicalism so far outside of the
values that we hold dear as Americans. But from a
policymaker's perspective and an alumna, I'm not going to just
give up on holding them accountable because they need to
hear that all from not just elected officials, but from donors,
(11:25):
from alumni, from faculty members who are speaking out to
try to dig out of this hole. And it's not
gonna happen overnight. It didn't get here overnight. It was
decades of backsliding. It's going to take decades of digging
out of this. So, you know, if Sam's going into kindergarten,
my son, but if he were going into college, I
would definitely have him apply to schools like Vanderbilt, University
(11:47):
of Florida, some of these other institutions and not focus on,
you know, some of the Columbias and others that are
just so far outside of the values that I think
are important.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marcowitch show. You mentioned Dartmouth and
I'm following what's going on there very closely. I think
it's actually pretty miraculous what they're able to do there
in such a short time. I'm impressed. Are you optimistic
about just the general state of these elite schools.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I'm optimistic in the sense that the hearing was a
wake up call and it really lifted the veil of
how deep because it wasn't just about the college presidents.
It's part of the administration, it's part of the faculty
selection process and faculty tenure. It created, as I said,
an earthquake and is a pivot point and smart schools
(12:44):
like Dartmouth and Vanderbilt. I keep returning to them. They
understand that and are building and growing and focused on
academic excellence, focused on critical thinking in the classroom, not
this radicalism. So I am optimistic in some of these instants,
I continue to be pessimistic. For example, the last week
(13:05):
Harvard hired numerous anti Semitic fellows. I think, you know,
it's news every single day of what's coming out of
these universities. On the flip side, you know, you look
at the Yale report that came out last month where
they identified so many of the same themes. That report
wouldn't have come out or not for the hearing, and
were not for the scrutiny that I led in Congress
(13:27):
to hold these schools accountable. The other part that makes
me optimistic is in the book, As I said, it's
not the story of Elis Stephonic. I highlight the students,
these brave students who at eighteen, nineteen twenty year old
testified in front of Congress. Think about that courage and
strength that that took with what these students were facing.
(13:47):
You know, when I think about myself at my age
I'm not sure that I would have had that confidence
to testify Sam Congress. And they're the real heroes in
this that they're speaking out of what they're facing out
the school, so they're highlighted in the book as well.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I bet those kids. I hope those kids are really
courted by businesses because those kids, they have so much tenacity,
so much bravery, Like that's exactly the kind of employee
you want at your firm.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yes, I think there. I continue to run into some
of them as they're beginning their professional lives after they've graduated,
and they are affiliated with think tanks, they're at businesses,
financial institutions, so they are already tremendous leaders very early
on in their adult careers.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
You've been in the public eye for many years, kind
of switching gears a little bit. What are you most
proud of in your own life.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I'm most proud of my son and are focused in
spite of being in the public eye. We have very
much focused on how we want to raise our sun
and you have to sort of make those decisions like
any parent, but also adding on the layer when you're
in the public eye and really making sure that they
(15:04):
there is a cocoon in some ways to avoid the
day to day chaos that comes with the media coverage
of news cycle. And really, you have one opportunity to
be a parent, and that's a tremendous, tremendous, humbling experience.
And it's also the most important legacy that anyone will
leave is your children. So I'm most proud of that.
(15:25):
And that came later during my time in Congress when
I was elected. When I was first elected, I was thirty,
I was not yet then married, had no children, and
got married and had a child while serving in office.
So I would say, I'm most proud of my son,
and we're going to continue to focus on, you know,
his upbringing, and he's just he's just the light of
(15:47):
our lives.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
I love that he's in kindergarten. You said, does he
know what you do?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Like?
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Does he understand mommy's job.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
He understands, you know, I commute back and forth. We
live in upstate New York. I go to d See
to vote. He's very familiar with, you know, mommy votes
at the capitol. He's very familiar with the district and
upstate New York. And we try to model for him
hard work, work, ethic, but also a very vibrant home life,
(16:18):
an understanding and outdoors. I mean it's a very rural
district and I'm from upstate New York, so that was
a huge part of my upbringing. We're raising him in
that way as well. But he understands, you know, he
understands too on sometimes on TV he can hear or
see if I'm doing an interview and my husband's watching.
(16:38):
But he's also very He's also very wise and grounded
in the sense that, you know, he knows what's sort
of appropriate and not to bring up in a school setting, which.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Is that's wise for a little peak. Definitely, my kids
say all kinds of stuff at school when they were little.
My mom picks on Barack Obama as it was of
a popular thing they like to tell their friends. Okay, yes, yes,
give us a five year out prediction, and it could
be about anything.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
At all, a five year out prediction. I'm deeply concerned
about this rise of socialism. We're seeing it play out
right in New York State, and it's very much tied
to the rise of anti Semitism. I mean, they go
one at one hand in the other and I also
I make the case in the book that what happened
(17:31):
at Columbia you can draw a direct line to what's
happening in New York City with the election of Zora Momdammy. Literally,
the same people who are organizing the pro Hamas encampment
at Columbia, we're also organizing his campaign. So I raise
that as very concerned about the rise of socialism in
the next five years. At the same time, my optimism is,
(17:52):
I think we're at the precipice of extraordinary innovation, whether
it's the success of SpaceX or somebody's in credible American
ingenuity really unleashed. I think that's an important trend at
as well, and real opportunity for American values and America
(18:13):
to be the leader in the world economically, in national security,
ways and others. So, you know, the socialism is a
deed concern over the next five years. But I'm very
optimistic and I'm a big believer in and I think
you inherently feel this as an elected official, just the
power of American workers, American fans in building extraordinary things,
(18:39):
whether they're businesses or communities, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
I always felt, you know, sorry for Upstate New York,
for having to deal with the politics of New York City.
And never has that been more true than in the
last year or two, where I just think, like upstate
New York is trying to vote itself to sanity, and
it has thiss like in New York City that just
won't let them. Would it happen?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yes, I mean it's a huge theme. It has come up,
and it's increasingly front and center. When I talked to
my constituents, and one of the reasons that I ran
Carol was I felt that this district didn't have a
very strong voice. I mean this district literally, I represent
families that go back generations who served in the Continental
Army for the Revolutionary War. I live a few miles
(19:26):
from the battlefield of Saratoga, the turning point of the
Revolutionary War. These are incredible, incredible people that frankly have
been left behind from New York State government. And I
talked a lot about how they deserve a seat and
a voice at the highest level. And I've been very
proud to deliver that to them in a way that
New York Republicans haven't had a leadership position at this
(19:48):
level in over one hundred years. And I was proud
to prod give that voice, and I am very grateful
that they re elected me overwhelmingly throughout my time representative.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Stefanik, I have I loved having you on. I've been
such a long time fan. I can't wait to see
what you do next. You just you have so much
you know amazing things about you. I think you're really
one of a kind. Leave us here with your best
tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
The best tip is reading. We have a reading crisis
in this country, and there's a lot of focus on
the literacy crisis, but you know, Americans that are literate,
very few are reading books. And when I talk about reading,
it's not reading on your phone, it's not reading the
latest news article. Really returning to books. I find that
(20:42):
really important in my professional life and just also my
personal and intellectual development. We're trying to model that with
our son. But reading, it is a crisis in this country,
and every leader is a reader. Like to a person,
you know one book that I read this year that
I highly read, ask for recommendation, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I will.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Well, you know, in addition to my book, which you
can only really be an effective writer if you're a
very prodigious reader. But the book that I read this
year that has stuck with me is Endurance, and I
brought it here. It's about David Shackleton's journey to Antarctica.
This is during World War One, where they essentially lost
(21:26):
their ship and got stranded, and he led the survival
of all of the men on the ship over a
period of years in the early nineteen hundreds. This book
was published in the nineteen fifties and it's never been
out of print. It was recommended to me by my
chief of staff. It is an unbelievable book about leadership,
about determination, about grit, and it's inspiring to me. And
(21:48):
I think it's one of those timeless books. No matter
where you are, if you in college, if you're you know,
an executive, if you're an elected official, or even a
high school it is a great, great read and I
highly recommend it. That's my best read of this year.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Love it. My middle son just finished it a few
months ago. I'll have to borrow his copy.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
What did he think.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
He loved it. He's a history nerd, big, big history nerd,
so he loved it a lot and really recommended it
also to all of his friends. He's thirteen, but that's perfect.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
You should read it, Carol. You will.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, I'm gonna listen to you and definitely read it,
and I'll let you know how that goes. She is
representative Elise Stephonic. You are so fantastic. Check out her
book Poisoned IVS, The inside account of the academic and
moral rot at America's elite universities. Thank you so much
for Epistophonic for coming on.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Thanks Carol,
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
My guest today is Representative at Least Stephonic, the author
of the best selling new book Poisoned IVS, the inside
account of the academic and moral rot at America's elite universities.
So nice to have you on, Representative Stephanic.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Carol, I'm so excited to join your show. I've followed
so much of the work you've put out your columns
in the New York Post and the most popular paper
in New York State. So excited to join you.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Thank you so much. I think it's the most popular
paper in Florida, where I now live, as well.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
And in America.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
So I have to start with what made you care
about the issue of our best colleges, our most you know,
popular and accomplished colleges going down the drain. What pushed
you to care about them failing well?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I have been a big believer in the power and
the importance of education. Education changed my life. I went
to an all girls' day school. My parents, who didn't
have the opportunity to graduate from college, really invested in
educational opportunity for my brother and I, and that really
has been an experience that I've taken with me throughout
my life. I was the first member of my immediate
(01:21):
family to have that opportunity. I graduated from Harvard, and
while in Congress, sitting on the Education Committee, was increasingly
concerned about how far gone these institutions have become and
how far outside the norm of representing American values. So
I've been on the Education Committee my whole time in Congress.
(01:43):
It was typically known as sort of not one of
the blockbuster committees. But when we saw post October seventh,
the skyrocketing of anti Semitism on our quote most elite institutions,
it was unrecognizable to me, and I really encourage my colleague,
the chair of the committee, Virginia Fox, that we needed
(02:04):
to have a hearing with those university presidents to ask
the tough questions. So I came at it not only
as a believer of the high quality education I got
growing up, but also as a graduate of one of
those institutions that just couldn't believe what was happening. And
also I've focused on combating anti semitism even prior to
(02:25):
this committee hearing, and I don't think anybody anticipated that
it would become the most viewed hearing the rationional history.
But it did, and there was a reason.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, your questions to then Harvard president Claudine Gay really
changed the trajectory of what these schools were doing. And
it was shocking to me how unprepared she was to
answer sort of what I thought were not basic questions,
but in the realm of basic questions. Were you surprised
by her response?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I was extremely surprised, and in fact, Carol, the question
that went viral with over a billion views, it was
not even a prepared question, and I thought it would be.
I tried to word it the most direct and the
most the easiest way possible for a yes or no,
And the question was, does calling for the genocide of
(03:16):
Jews violate your university's code of conduct? I expected they
would say yes, and I was going to feel easy, Yeah, exactly.
I was going to follow up with what disciplinary action
has been taken because the schools weren't enforcing rules. But
I couldn't even get to the follow up because of
their moral equivocation. They said it depends on the context.
It was shocking to me in real time, Yeah, because
(03:38):
calling for the murder of one person would be disqualifying, right,
they would, they would absolutely take some sort of action,
But calling for the murder of a group of people
seemed like it was no big deal.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
And her stammering at that moment gave up so much
of the game. It really showed that she had no
idea what she believed, and she had no idea what
the school itself would do in those situations.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yes, and it's not just if you put in an individual.
If you put in any other demographic group, it would
have elicited a different answer. And that to me highlighted
not only the moral rot and this fulsome embrace of
anti Semitism, but also the academic rot. Because it wasn't
just the Harvard president. I started asking the MIT president.
(04:24):
She equivocated. I asked the PEN president. She said, it's
a context dependent decision, and then I asked the Harvard president.
So it showed the monolithic viewpoints of prestigious higher ed institutions.
And what was really eerie about it. It was the last question.
They stood up and they went on their way, thinking
nothing was wrong about that question. And I called my
(04:46):
staff and said, I think this is going to be
an important question before we even put it out the
c Span footage when it was everywhere. It went viral
and became the most viewed testimony and really set off
an earthquake higher education.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
So you're very into this and you have a lot
of background and knowledge and just general information. Were there
any surprises in writing Poison Divies?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Well, I wrote the book for a few reasons. The
main reason was I felt that the mainstream media would
try to brush this under the rug as a few
instances at a few universities. It was very widespread and
what happens at these very prestigious again quote unquote elite universities.
It has an impact in higher ed written large and
(05:32):
it was challenging. You know, we had a number of hearings,
but when you put it in one volume, it is
a deeply disturbing chapter in American higher education, and anti
Semitism is really the canary in the coal mine for
a tax on Western civilization, at tax on our American values.
So I took the opportunity to do a deep dive
(05:53):
on a few of the institutions. I also highlighted institutions
that are getting it right Dartmouth, Vanderie, University of Florida,
and they are seeing sort of a sea change students
who are going to those universities rather than the Columbius
depends the Harvard's. And then I put forth some policy
solutions addressing the foreign dollars throwing into flowing into higher education,
(06:17):
some of the taxpayer funding leverage that we have because
these schools get billions of dollars of taxpayer funding, as
well as making sure we have full enforcement of the
Civil Rights Act. So it's it's not a typical political book.
A lot of politicians and elected officials to just talk
about themselves and their story. I really wanted to do
a deep dive on an issue, and I added a
(06:38):
little bit about my educational background and my perspective as
a member of Congress how to conduct this effective oversight.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I think that's why it's a bestseller, because it is
not a typical political book that was phoned in. You
seem like you really care about this issue and that
you're again you're very, very knowledgeable in a way that
I think a lot of politicians, I don't want to say,
you know, aren't about the issues that they pretend to
care about, but you clearly have a lot of information.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I want to add one thing that we became the
repository of frankly whistleblowers, all these students and parents and schools.
Because there were examples of faculty, Jewish faculty members, and
even non Jewish faculty members who were raising concerns about
what were happening on these campuses. We became the recipient
of all of that information, and it was important to
(07:27):
put it together not only for the congressional investigation, but
also in a readable form in a book, one book volume,
so that the American people writ large understand what's happening.
And I'll tell you, Carol, it didn't go viral because
it was just Jewish families who were watching it. Oh yeah,
more kids were deeply disturbed about what was happening, and
(07:49):
really the epitome of what happened at that hearing.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I would say that I hear a lot more from
non Jewish parents now worrying about what their kids will
encounter in college. And a lot of the time I
think I used to get a lot of emails from
parents of girls being like, I hope my daughter doesn't
fall into like communism in college, and now I kind
of hear it from boys where the parents are concerned
(08:14):
that their kid is going to be motivated towards anti Semitism.
And it's an interesting shift because Jewish parents, I think
were really shocked after October seventh, but kind of picked
up their you know, they really figured it out quickly
for their children, like they're not going to go to
these schools, They're going to go to these schools. We're
going to move on, whereas I think non Jewish parents
(08:35):
were so stunned by it that they're continuing to kind
of feel the ramifications of that.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Do you see that? I do see that. And it's interesting.
This book came out in April, and so many parents
have reached out to me saying either their kids are
you know, juniors or seniors in high school and starting
this process, and they're saying, we're reading this book to
help us think through as we make our decisions as
our families, and as we talk to our children about
(09:00):
what we hope they will gain from higher ed people
don't want political indoctrination. They want to return to the
founding missions of these schools. And that was an interesting
part about writing this is I could go back to
the founders of Harvard, Penn Columbia and many of these
institutions pre date the founding of our country. Harvard was
(09:20):
founded in sixteen thirty six. The motto was Veritas at
christo et eclesii truth in Christ and the Church. Today
it's veritas truth that to me means a moral truth Penn.
One of the founders was Benjamin Franklin Colombia. Alexander Hamilton's
deep ties. These missions are timeless, but these schools have
(09:41):
lost their way from those founding principles. I really appreciated
that opportunity for me to go back historically as to
why these were important institutions and how we can't totally
abandon them. We need both them accountable while also having
new institutions continue to grow and thrive. But we've got
(10:04):
to change this direction so that they can return to
the founding missions.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
That was going to be my question is whether we
are supposed to abandon these schools and not send our
children there. I have a tenth grader. This is very
much on my mind, and you know, I'm from the
Soviet Union. Jews couldn't go to certain schools there. So
I feel the sense of like my kids are going
to go to any school that they want to and
then we're not going to be pushed away from these schools.
(10:29):
But then I hear the flip side of that, and
I understand it, which is, why would you send your
kids to schools that are unwelcoming to them or that
don't take the mission of free speech and free expression seriously?
What do you make of that?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
You know? It's I get asked this all the time,
and it's a hard question. I think right now today,
I'm very concerned of what the experience will be over
the next couple of years for students at these schools,
because it's going to take a long time to dig out.
I think about my son that I want to make
sure he goes to an institution that's focused on academic
(11:03):
excellence and not this radicalism so far outside of the
values that we hold dear as Americans. But from a
policymaker's perspective and an alumna, I'm not going to just
give up on holding them accountable because they need to
hear that all from not just elected officials, but from donors,
(11:25):
from alumni, from faculty members who are speaking out to
try to dig out of this hole. And it's not
gonna happen overnight. It didn't get here overnight. It was
decades of backsliding. It's going to take decades of digging
out of this. So, you know, if Sam's going into kindergarten,
my son, but if he were going into college, I
would definitely have him apply to schools like Vanderbilt, University
(11:47):
of Florida, some of these other institutions and not focus on,
you know, some of the Columbias and others that are
just so far outside of the values that I think
are important.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
We're going to take a quick break and be right
back on the Carol Marcowitch show. You mentioned Dartmouth and
I'm following what's going on there very closely. I think
it's actually pretty miraculous what they're able to do there
in such a short time. I'm impressed. Are you optimistic
about just the general state of these elite schools.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I'm optimistic in the sense that the hearing was a
wake up call and it really lifted the veil of
how deep because it wasn't just about the college presidents.
It's part of the administration, it's part of the faculty
selection process and faculty tenure. It created, as I said,
an earthquake and is a pivot point and smart schools
(12:44):
like Dartmouth and Vanderbilt. I keep returning to them. They
understand that and are building and growing and focused on
academic excellence, focused on critical thinking in the classroom, not
this radicalism. So I am optimistic in some of these instants,
I continue to be pessimistic. For example, the last week
(13:05):
Harvard hired numerous anti Semitic fellows. I think, you know,
it's news every single day of what's coming out of
these universities. On the flip side, you know, you look
at the Yale report that came out last month where
they identified so many of the same themes. That report
wouldn't have come out or not for the hearing, and
were not for the scrutiny that I led in Congress
(13:27):
to hold these schools accountable. The other part that makes
me optimistic is in the book, As I said, it's
not the story of Elis Stephonic. I highlight the students,
these brave students who at eighteen, nineteen twenty year old
testified in front of Congress. Think about that courage and
strength that that took with what these students were facing.
(13:47):
You know, when I think about myself at my age
I'm not sure that I would have had that confidence
to testify Sam Congress. And they're the real heroes in
this that they're speaking out of what they're facing out
the school, so they're highlighted in the book as well.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I bet those kids. I hope those kids are really
courted by businesses because those kids, they have so much tenacity,
so much bravery, Like that's exactly the kind of employee
you want at your firm.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yes, I think there. I continue to run into some
of them as they're beginning their professional lives after they've graduated,
and they are affiliated with think tanks, they're at businesses,
financial institutions, so they are already tremendous leaders very early
on in their adult careers.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
You've been in the public eye for many years, kind
of switching gears a little bit. What are you most
proud of in your own life.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I'm most proud of my son and are focused in
spite of being in the public eye. We have very
much focused on how we want to raise our sun
and you have to sort of make those decisions like
any parent, but also adding on the layer when you're
in the public eye and really making sure that they
(15:04):
there is a cocoon in some ways to avoid the
day to day chaos that comes with the media coverage
of news cycle. And really, you have one opportunity to
be a parent, and that's a tremendous, tremendous, humbling experience.
And it's also the most important legacy that anyone will
leave is your children. So I'm most proud of that.
(15:25):
And that came later during my time in Congress when
I was elected. When I was first elected, I was thirty,
I was not yet then married, had no children, and
got married and had a child while serving in office.
So I would say, I'm most proud of my son,
and we're going to continue to focus on, you know,
his upbringing, and he's just he's just the light of
(15:47):
our lives.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
I love that he's in kindergarten. You said, does he
know what you do?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Like?
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Does he understand mommy's job.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
He understands, you know, I commute back and forth. We
live in upstate New York. I go to d See
to vote. He's very familiar with, you know, mommy votes
at the capitol. He's very familiar with the district and
upstate New York. And we try to model for him
hard work, work, ethic, but also a very vibrant home life,
(16:18):
an understanding and outdoors. I mean it's a very rural
district and I'm from upstate New York, so that was
a huge part of my upbringing. We're raising him in
that way as well. But he understands, you know, he
understands too on sometimes on TV he can hear or
see if I'm doing an interview and my husband's watching.
(16:38):
But he's also very He's also very wise and grounded
in the sense that, you know, he knows what's sort
of appropriate and not to bring up in a school setting, which.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Is that's wise for a little peak. Definitely, my kids
say all kinds of stuff at school when they were little.
My mom picks on Barack Obama as it was of
a popular thing they like to tell their friends. Okay, yes, yes,
give us a five year out prediction, and it could
be about anything.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
At all, a five year out prediction. I'm deeply concerned
about this rise of socialism. We're seeing it play out
right in New York State, and it's very much tied
to the rise of anti Semitism. I mean, they go
one at one hand in the other and I also
I make the case in the book that what happened
(17:31):
at Columbia you can draw a direct line to what's
happening in New York City with the election of Zora Momdammy. Literally,
the same people who are organizing the pro Hamas encampment
at Columbia, we're also organizing his campaign. So I raise
that as very concerned about the rise of socialism in
the next five years. At the same time, my optimism is,
(17:52):
I think we're at the precipice of extraordinary innovation, whether
it's the success of SpaceX or somebody's in credible American
ingenuity really unleashed. I think that's an important trend at
as well, and real opportunity for American values and America
(18:13):
to be the leader in the world economically, in national security,
ways and others. So, you know, the socialism is a
deed concern over the next five years. But I'm very
optimistic and I'm a big believer in and I think
you inherently feel this as an elected official, just the
power of American workers, American fans in building extraordinary things,
(18:39):
whether they're businesses or communities, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
I always felt, you know, sorry for Upstate New York,
for having to deal with the politics of New York City.
And never has that been more true than in the
last year or two, where I just think, like upstate
New York is trying to vote itself to sanity, and
it has thiss like in New York City that just
won't let them. Would it happen?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yes, I mean it's a huge theme. It has come up,
and it's increasingly front and center. When I talked to
my constituents, and one of the reasons that I ran
Carol was I felt that this district didn't have a
very strong voice. I mean this district literally, I represent
families that go back generations who served in the Continental
Army for the Revolutionary War. I live a few miles
(19:26):
from the battlefield of Saratoga, the turning point of the
Revolutionary War. These are incredible, incredible people that frankly have
been left behind from New York State government. And I
talked a lot about how they deserve a seat and
a voice at the highest level. And I've been very
proud to deliver that to them in a way that
New York Republicans haven't had a leadership position at this
(19:48):
level in over one hundred years. And I was proud
to prod give that voice, and I am very grateful
that they re elected me overwhelmingly throughout my time representative.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Stefanik, I have I loved having you on. I've been
such a long time fan. I can't wait to see
what you do next. You just you have so much
you know amazing things about you. I think you're really
one of a kind. Leave us here with your best
tip for my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
The best tip is reading. We have a reading crisis
in this country, and there's a lot of focus on
the literacy crisis, but you know, Americans that are literate,
very few are reading books. And when I talk about reading,
it's not reading on your phone, it's not reading the
latest news article. Really returning to books. I find that
(20:42):
really important in my professional life and just also my
personal and intellectual development. We're trying to model that with
our son. But reading, it is a crisis in this country,
and every leader is a reader. Like to a person,
you know one book that I read this year that
I highly read, ask for recommendation, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I will.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Well, you know, in addition to my book, which you
can only really be an effective writer if you're a
very prodigious reader. But the book that I read this
year that has stuck with me is Endurance, and I
brought it here. It's about David Shackleton's journey to Antarctica.
This is during World War One, where they essentially lost
(21:26):
their ship and got stranded, and he led the survival
of all of the men on the ship over a
period of years in the early nineteen hundreds. This book
was published in the nineteen fifties and it's never been
out of print. It was recommended to me by my
chief of staff. It is an unbelievable book about leadership,
about determination, about grit, and it's inspiring to me. And
(21:48):
I think it's one of those timeless books. No matter
where you are, if you in college, if you're you know,
an executive, if you're an elected official, or even a
high school it is a great, great read and I
highly recommend it. That's my best read of this year.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Love it. My middle son just finished it a few
months ago. I'll have to borrow his copy.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
What did he think.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
He loved it. He's a history nerd, big, big history nerd,
so he loved it a lot and really recommended it
also to all of his friends. He's thirteen, but that's perfect.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
You should read it, Carol. You will.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, I'm gonna listen to you and definitely read it,
and I'll let you know how that goes. She is
representative Elise Stephonic. You are so fantastic. Check out her
book Poisoned IVS, The inside account of the academic and
moral rot at America's elite universities. Thank you so much
for Epistophonic for coming on.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Thanks Carol,
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