On this episode of The Karol Markowicz Show, Karol sits down with education reform leader Erika Donalds, founder of the Education Freedom Foundation, school choice advocate, entrepreneur, and wife of Florida gubernatorial candidate Byron Donalds.
Erika explains why she remains "still mad" about COVID school closures, how classical education is transforming student outcomes, and why America's education system needs a fundamental overhaul. She shares her journey from CPA and investment executive to education activist, discusses the rise of school choice across the country, and offers a bold prediction for how AI and customized learning will reshape education over the next decade.
The conversation also touches on entrepreneurship, family, public life, political attacks, and what parents can do right now to take control of their children's education.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Marcowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
My guest today is Erica Donalds. Erica is founder of
the Education Freedom Foundation and the wife of Florida gubernatorial
candidate Byron Donalds.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
So nice to have you on, Erica.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Oh, it's great to finally be with you, Carol.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I feel such an affinity with you on the main
topic that you work on, which of course is education.
And on my other show on Normally, Mary Catherine Hamm
and I have a segment called still Mad Bro and
one of the main things we're still mad about is
COVID school closures. And I always felt, following your Twitter
x feed that you two are still mad.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Is that right? I indeed am still mad.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
You know.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
I had children in middle and high school during COVID,
so we were feeling all the brunt of the COVID
school closures.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Even here in Florida.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
But of course, in the education Freedom movement, of which
I am very much a part, I talk to parents
all the time who feel like this, not only had
their students not recovered from the COVID closures, but the
schools have not recovered, the district, the system, nothing has recovered.
Nothing has, no lessons have been learned, and unfortunately, not
(01:18):
only were they failing before the COVID closures, they're failing
even more so now, and the fact that they haven't
made the necessary adjustments that we learned from that time
period is even more infuriating.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
So yeah, still, mad bro, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
How did you become the founder of the Education Freedom Foundation?
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Well, I actually started my career in investment management. I
was a CPAA. I was at the top of my career,
a partner and the chief financial officer of a multi
billion dollar investment firm when I made the questionable decision
to run for school board. I was doing it because,
you know, I noticed things in my local school, which
was an a district, an a's school, that just weren't
(02:02):
meeting my child's needs. I had ended up pulling him
out of the public schools, putting him in a classical school,
and helping to start a classical charter school myself as
a volunteer. So I was talking to parents in my
community and hearing the same issues I was having with
the traditional public schools A lot of parents were having,
So I thought, well, I'll get on the local school
board and we'll fix the problems from the inside. I
(02:25):
was very naive at the time of what serving on
a school board could accomplish. After four years, I decided
not to run again and instead started the foundation to
start other classical charter schools. And we've since not only
started our own schools, but are helping other people start
schools all over the country now and helping parents to
find the right fit for their children as well.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Do you feel like classical schools are really having a
moment right now. I hear from so many people, like
people who are not in our political world, just kind
of what you know, normies saying I want a normal
education for my kids and leaning towards its classical schools.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Yeah, it's definitely been a movement, and a lot of it,
just like for me, was word of mouth. When you
start to hear what other children are learning in a
classical environment and a knowledge and content rich environment, and
you compare that to what's being taught in the traditional
public school system, I felt short changed. One of my
children was already in fifth grade at the time, and
I'm like, oh my gosh, he didn't learn any of this,
(03:24):
and I thought he was getting the very best education
that I could give him, and as a parent, that's
what you want for your children. And then my son,
who started us into classical education, would go around to
the neighbors' houses and tell them what he was learning
in school, and they start asking me, how can they
get their kids in right?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Mind's blown up?
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Right, yea, So definitely it's caught on, and Hillsdale was
a big part of helping a lot of us get started,
and now there are lots of other organizations helping get
started different types of classical schools, whether that's private, charter, public.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
So it's been a great movement.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
And I think what we really need for every single school,
regardless of whether you want to call it classicool or not,
to be teaching these things to kids because they deserve
to know explicit phonics, explicit Graumner, They deserve to read
the great books and understand the history of our country.
It shouldn't be just reserved for this niche type of school.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So is what are the classical schools doing differently? You
just name some things, but what's like the bigger picture
of what makes a classical school different from the average
public school.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Yeah, the bigger picture is that they are focused on
content knowledge as opposed to just being skills focused. We
were told for quite a while that kids don't need
to know anything anymore, they don't need to memorize information
or math facts because they have Google, and we know
that that's just not born out to be true.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
In fact, students who have.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
That background knowledge, the content knowledge, who do remember their
math facts and understand explicit phonics and grammar, actually can
propel further because they have that basis of knowledge to
pull from, so they are doing better and reading comprehension.
They have a better understanding of advanced math concepts because
they have memorized their mass facts. So it really gets
(05:09):
back to the very basics at the beginning of their
education when it comes to learning all those things in
the elementary years, the grammar stage, if you will, in
classical education. But then when they do get to middle
in high school, reading the great books of classic literature,
understand the philosophies behind even when it comes to music
and art, understanding how these came about in the culture
(05:31):
of the time, as opposed to just knowing how to
recognize the type of art or the type of music.
And it just gives kids such a more rich experience
to appreciate beauty and culture and the history and how
things built upon each other over time, it's a better
education overall. And I find that the kids who do
(05:54):
come through a classical model of education are much more
prepared no matter what type of a career or college
or adult pursuits that they have.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Right, it used to be that this kind of well
rounded student was what the teachers' unions and the public
schools said that they wanted. And now it's like a
niche thing that you get elsewhere. It almost makes no sense, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Unfortunately, I started sixth classical charter schools, so I know
what it takes to get them started, and I know
what it takes to train teachers to teach classically, and
it is much more difficult to do than what the
traditional public schools are doing.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
You know, the traditional public schools are saying that teachers.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Don't really need to be background experts or content experts
in their field. They are not the stage on the stage,
they're the guide on the side, so they don't have
to have that expertise. And in a classical environment, we're
hiring history majors, math major right English majors because you
really have to know your stuff to be able to
teach it. And not only that, when you teach explicit products,
(06:58):
for example, very repetitive, you have to do the same
thing every single day, repeat, repeat, repeat, as opposed to,
you know, letting kids explore this kind of whole language
and feel good model of education. And our teachers' colleges
and institutions of education have totally failed to repair our
teachers appropriately for this type of education.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So it's going to take a huge shift.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
In that entire preparation process in order for the traditional
public school system to come on board.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
So you're clearly very passionate about education. What would you
be doing if it wasn't this, What would have plan
be been?
Speaker 4 (07:36):
You know? I, of course, I was on a great
trajectory at the time. I really thought I was going
to finish my career at where I started it at
Dalton Grindor Hartman mar I had spent almost twenty years there,
and between the CEO and myself as the CFO, we
were the next generation of partners that were really going
to carry that firm forward, and there was no reason
(07:57):
to think that I wouldn't just continue in that career
trajectory and do well in it. But I just was
so passionate about solving this problem. We have an education
crisis in our country and I couldn't sit by any
longer and not do that. Now, in the age of
AI and technology, I'm really excited about this new technological
(08:19):
revolution that is happening, not just for education but business
and industry. And I do dabble in that side of
things a bit. I'm a bit of an entrepreneur, like perpetually.
I get that from my father. So yeah, I mean
I can't imagine doing anything else right now.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
But right now, I think you have your hands full
right now for sure.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
But yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I think the entrepreneur gene, you either have it or
you don't, like I think I so don't have that.
I have owned my own business in the past, and
I did not enjoy it at all. But it's because
it's all consuming. It's not you don't close the door
and go home. It comes with you everywhere you go.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
And it's it's quite a lot.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, you know, Actually, my grandfather was an entrepreneur.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
My mom has always owned her own business for the
past thirty years.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
My dad is the perpetual entrepreneur.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Like I am starting a whole bunch of different things
and having big, big ideas.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
So it's definitely in my blood and I enjoy it.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
I enjoy the fact that when you are an entrepreneur,
you can set a goal for yourself and you don't
have to ask anyone else if that goal is okay,
and you can just start to pursue it and build
a team and inspire people around that goal, whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
That's the most exciting thing about entrepreneurship.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
The worst thing about entrepreneurship is it's a lot of
it is on your shoulders.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
It is very can be stressful.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
It's a big risk, it's all but that's excitement and
also like stress.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Excitement and lots and lots of stress.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I do recommend it, though, highly recommend.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
So your husband is running for governor, You're at his
side a lot, and you know, I want this interview
to be about you, But what I wanted to ask
you is, you know, when he gets attacked, do you
how do you handle it? When Byron Donald's got some
very racist attacks from a terrible opponent, you know, who's
gonna hopefully get under five percent.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I wanted to go have a fistfight on his behalf.
How do you handle that kind of thing aimed at
your husband.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Yeah, well, we've been the subject of all kinds of
attacks over the years. I mean, as someone who started
charter schools, I've had the Teachers' union say some of
the most disgusting things about me in public, right in
public meetings.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
So, I guess you just develop a very thick skin
of mission focus and what you're doing, and you know
that if you're doing something worthwhile, you're going to have
haters that are going to come against you. And that's
just the way life is. When it comes to attacking him,
I do I think get more upset about attacks against
him than against Night, of course, because I know how
(10:52):
hard he works, I know how much heart he has
for what he's doing, for helping people. He cares about
people so much. He loves this contry. He has a
great track record.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I just hate it.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
When people lie about him or lie about me, and
especially the track record, because it's verifiable. You're like, can
you just go look at it and not lie about it?
But you just you can't spend too much time on
that because we don't have enough time to accomplish things
as it is, so I just catch myself like you,
why are you reading this?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
It doesn't even matter? And I mute and block people
like it's no I mean.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
One hundreds of two all muted and blocked, so that
I just don't even get distracted by the nonsense.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
That's such a good perspective. I have to, like, I
have to, you know, have fewer fistfights. I think I'm
from Brooklyn, you know, it's usually the way we got.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
I'm very familiar with the Brooklyn way, as my husband's
from Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
So yeah, we're going to take a quick break and
be right back on the Carol Marcowitch Show.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
What are you most proud of in your life?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Wow, you know, I've got my three boys back here.
They're much littler than they're now twenty two, eighteen, and fourteen,
and they're amazing boys. My twenty two year old graduated college,
a college athlete. He's in New York actually now working
in financial services and just doing amazing. And my freshmen
now just graduated freshman year from college, is home now
(12:18):
for the summer.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
He's achieving his dreams.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
He's the one who got me into school choice that
I was told really to be on medication or in
a special classroom, and I just refused. And that's why
I pulled him out and started looking for something else.
He's never been on medication, never been in a special classroom,
graduated with honors, got a scholarship, you know, is pursuing
his dreams.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I think that.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Of course, as a mom, that's always you know, something
that you're most proud of.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
But my schools are my kids as well. You know.
I've started several.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Schools that are often running on their own, just like kids,
you know, you start them up, you grow them up
to a certain point, and they have to fly on
their own. And all of my schools that I've started
are doing incredibly well well and serving families in their communities.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
And I'm very very proud of that.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
But I think I love that.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
I think the thing I'm most proud of for me,
it goes back to a proverb bookmark that my grandmother
gave me that said, a good name is better to
be had than great riches. And my good name and
my reputation amongst people who know me, who have worked
with me, is the most important thing to me and
always has been, and that's I think where when people
(13:27):
try to damage your reputation with lies, it really but
does bother me because it is the most valuable thing
that I believe that I have in life, and it's
something that I protect and I guard very closely.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
I think you have to mention your youngest son because
I know when I do interviews and I mentioned two
out of three.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Yeah, a fourteen year old is just finishing up eighth
grade and going into high school, and he is such
a go getter. I mean he's he is one that
not necessarily from an academic person, but when he has
a goal or he's working on something, he is so
laser focused on that he could basically do anything. He's
(14:07):
everyone's best friend. I have no idea what he's going
to do in life, whether he's going to play college
sports or be an entrepreneur or going to the military.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
He's talked about all these different things.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
I just know that he's going to be successful at
whatever it is that he decides to do. He's always
known the political life, so people always ask like, what
do your kids think.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
It's like, this is just normal.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
And he has me the most because he was a
baby when a Byron first ran for office, so he
really has just been steeped in it the whole time.
And he just rolls with the punches. You can take
him anywhere. He's just down for whatever. And that's how
you want your kids to be when you're in this mode,
because you know they've got to just embrace it.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
And he absolutely has.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Very youngest kid energy there very much, very much. Who
knows what they're going to be. I also have three.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
My youngest is the mystery, you know, I just don't
know where they're going to end up.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Could be anything. Yeah, So how did.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
You when Byron decides to run. How do you guys
make that decision together?
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Man, Well, the very first time he decided to run
was during the Tea Party movement. We had just gotten
involved in what you could say was politics, but we
didn't really think of it that way at the time,
since we were in financial services. We were kind of
protesting the bailouts and the Fannie May and Freddie Mac
like all the stuff that was going on in our
industry at the time, not really thinking of it as
(15:30):
like Republican politics or conservative politics.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
But we did get involved.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
In the Herman Kane campaign and meet movement. Did you really?
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
My very first political job was interning on the Herman
Kane US Senate campaign in Georgia.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
That's so cool.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
So when that was over, our congressman wasn't running and
people kept telling Byron he should run. So he comes
home and tells me that, and I was like, how
do you even do that?
Speaker 3 (15:56):
And literally we're googling how to run for congress?
Speaker 4 (16:00):
And I ordered books online on Amazon and read them,
and I was his campaign manager and he ran in
twenty twelve. He lost, but we won our county out
of the two counties that covered the congressional district. And
that's how we kind of got involved in the first place.
I later then ran for school board. Then he ran
for state house. So we got involved in the local
(16:23):
Republican party. But we didn't even know there was a
quote local Republican party, Like you didn't know there was
an apparatus that you had to like get involved in.
But we learned quickly and we did it together, and
it was more just like me supporting his dream. I
had gone back to school after we had our first child,
and he was so supportive and just was mister mom
(16:45):
when I was having to study for the CPA exam,
et cetera. So when he wanted to do this, I
did the same thing back, like, whatever you need, I'll
you know, I'm here for you, I'll run your campaign,
I'll knock doors. And you just do that for each
other when you're you're married, your partners in life.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I love that story. Actually, I think that's exactly the
way to do it.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Support each other at different times when you need support, Like,
I don't think it should always be one part. Like
I think we get a lot of arguments that women
are supposed to be the supporters in every you know,
thing that men want to do, and that's fine, but
a lot of times men need to be the supporters
at different phases as well.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
No, Enviyron absolutely has with every crazy idea I've had,
whether it's going back.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
To school, the wives that have the crazy ideas, those
are the best, running for school board, giving up a
really great career and start a nonprofit.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
You know you've supported me through all that.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Those are the best. The best men who do that. Yeah,
give us a five year out prediction.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
It could be about anything at all.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
The most important five year prediction I have is about
education freedom. You know, we've been working to build this
education freedom economy, as I call it, this parallel economy
where parents get the money from the state or now
from perhaps the federal tax credit, and they can spend
that money on new innovative school models. Maybe they're existing
(18:07):
private schools, but there are a lot more options coming
online and have been since COVID. Micro schools, hybrid schools,
online programs. You know, you have the Alpha school AI
driven programs that are.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Going to be coming.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
I just think education is going to be much more
customized and modular as we move forward. The states that
have education freedom are going to continue to expand that.
More and more families are going to be demanding school choice,
and it's.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Just going to look very different in five years than
anything we've seen.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
I think it's going to accelerate even more than what
we've seen since COVID, especially with all the new technology
and with all the new funding available. We have never
invited innovation into education because parents have never had access
to funds to be consumers, and now they're going to
be making choices that they've never made before, and more
(18:56):
and more innovators are going to come into the space. Saying, hey, parents,
spend your money here, right, I have a great solution
for you and your child. And I'm really excited to
see how this develops over the next five ten years.
When my grandchildren are going into school. I think my
kids are going to be customizing every aspect of their education,
and I think that's just incredibly exciting.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Do you think that the school choice battle has been won?
Do you feel victorious?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I do feel victorious in a way.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
I think we've come over one hump, like that first
hump when you talk about starting a business, Right, You've
got to get over that first hump of where most
businesses fail. Right, you have to pursue past all of
the initial opposition. And we have achieved that. We've got
eighteen states with at least universal eligibility for school choice.
We've now got a federal program, and we've won in
(19:46):
the court of public opinion over seventy percent of Democrats
and Republicans, independents everyone supports school choice. So that's the
first phase of win. But the next phase is to
make it all work together. Rules and laws make it
very difficult not only for parents to access funds, but
for provider to come online for providers to get approved
(20:08):
in this.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
State or that state.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
There's zoning laws that are just ridiculous and stop people
from opening schools. So I think we are on that
next frontier that requires us to get full funding. I mean,
out of twenty seven million eligible, only about one million
in this country are actually fully funded and enrolled.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
So we've got to get over.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
That hump and get all the laws in line so
that providers who are doing really well can go from
state to state and actually scale the programs.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Erica, I have loved talking to you.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
I could talk about education actually forever, and you're so knowledgeable, Like,
listen to you talk about this. This is like, clearly
you know something that you love and feel very deeply
passionate about. Leave us here with your best tip from
my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
Well, if you're a parent, you can improve by taking
full control and responsibility for your children and their education.
I tell parents all the time, I don't care what
the situation is or how much money you make or
where you live. If you feel that your child is
not getting the very best education experience possible, if they
don't love learning, you can take control of that. Whether
(21:17):
it means homeschooling, online schooling, a private school, or some
other combination of it. You as a parent know what's
best for your kids, and you should take full control
of that and feel confident, say a prayer about it,
of course, but also lean on yourself, in your own
gut and your own understanding to make those best decisions
for your kids. If every parent does that in this country,
(21:40):
we'll be able to save this country and preserve our republic.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
That is perfect.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I love that so much. Be the parent is the message.
I think all parents know what their kids need, especially
in education, and you.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Should go fight for it.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And I truly believe that she is Erica Donald's follow
her on x She's such a wonderful follow She really
teaches me a lot.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Thank you so much, Erica for coming on.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Thanks so much for having me in for everything that
you do.
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Marcowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
My guest today is Erica Donalds. Erica is founder of
the Education Freedom Foundation and the wife of Florida gubernatorial
candidate Byron Donalds.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
So nice to have you on, Erica.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Oh, it's great to finally be with you, Carol.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I feel such an affinity with you on the main
topic that you work on, which of course is education.
And on my other show on Normally, Mary Catherine Hamm
and I have a segment called still Mad Bro and
one of the main things we're still mad about is
COVID school closures. And I always felt, following your Twitter
x feed that you two are still mad.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Is that right? I indeed am still mad.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
You know.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
I had children in middle and high school during COVID,
so we were feeling all the brunt of the COVID
school closures.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Even here in Florida.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
But of course, in the education Freedom movement, of which
I am very much a part, I talk to parents
all the time who feel like this, not only had
their students not recovered from the COVID closures, but the
schools have not recovered, the district, the system, nothing has recovered.
Nothing has, no lessons have been learned, and unfortunately, not
(01:18):
only were they failing before the COVID closures, they're failing
even more so now, and the fact that they haven't
made the necessary adjustments that we learned from that time
period is even more infuriating.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
So yeah, still, mad bro, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
How did you become the founder of the Education Freedom Foundation?
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Well, I actually started my career in investment management. I
was a CPAA. I was at the top of my career,
a partner and the chief financial officer of a multi
billion dollar investment firm when I made the questionable decision
to run for school board. I was doing it because,
you know, I noticed things in my local school, which
was an a district, an a's school, that just weren't
(02:02):
meeting my child's needs. I had ended up pulling him
out of the public schools, putting him in a classical school,
and helping to start a classical charter school myself as
a volunteer. So I was talking to parents in my
community and hearing the same issues I was having with
the traditional public schools A lot of parents were having,
So I thought, well, I'll get on the local school
board and we'll fix the problems from the inside. I
(02:25):
was very naive at the time of what serving on
a school board could accomplish. After four years, I decided
not to run again and instead started the foundation to
start other classical charter schools. And we've since not only
started our own schools, but are helping other people start
schools all over the country now and helping parents to
find the right fit for their children as well.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Do you feel like classical schools are really having a
moment right now. I hear from so many people, like
people who are not in our political world, just kind
of what you know, normies saying I want a normal
education for my kids and leaning towards its classical schools.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Yeah, it's definitely been a movement, and a lot of it,
just like for me, was word of mouth. When you
start to hear what other children are learning in a
classical environment and a knowledge and content rich environment, and
you compare that to what's being taught in the traditional
public school system, I felt short changed. One of my
children was already in fifth grade at the time, and
I'm like, oh my gosh, he didn't learn any of this,
(03:24):
and I thought he was getting the very best education
that I could give him, and as a parent, that's
what you want for your children. And then my son,
who started us into classical education, would go around to
the neighbors' houses and tell them what he was learning
in school, and they start asking me, how can they
get their kids in right?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Mind's blown up?
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Right, yea, So definitely it's caught on, and Hillsdale was
a big part of helping a lot of us get started,
and now there are lots of other organizations helping get
started different types of classical schools, whether that's private, charter, public.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
So it's been a great movement.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
And I think what we really need for every single school,
regardless of whether you want to call it classicool or not,
to be teaching these things to kids because they deserve
to know explicit phonics, explicit Graumner, They deserve to read
the great books and understand the history of our country.
It shouldn't be just reserved for this niche type of school.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So is what are the classical schools doing differently? You
just name some things, but what's like the bigger picture
of what makes a classical school different from the average
public school.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Yeah, the bigger picture is that they are focused on
content knowledge as opposed to just being skills focused. We
were told for quite a while that kids don't need
to know anything anymore, they don't need to memorize information
or math facts because they have Google, and we know
that that's just not born out to be true.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
In fact, students who have.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
That background knowledge, the content knowledge, who do remember their
math facts and understand explicit phonics and grammar, actually can
propel further because they have that basis of knowledge to
pull from, so they are doing better and reading comprehension.
They have a better understanding of advanced math concepts because
they have memorized their mass facts. So it really gets
(05:09):
back to the very basics at the beginning of their
education when it comes to learning all those things in
the elementary years, the grammar stage, if you will, in
classical education. But then when they do get to middle
in high school, reading the great books of classic literature,
understand the philosophies behind even when it comes to music
and art, understanding how these came about in the culture
(05:31):
of the time, as opposed to just knowing how to
recognize the type of art or the type of music.
And it just gives kids such a more rich experience
to appreciate beauty and culture and the history and how
things built upon each other over time, it's a better
education overall. And I find that the kids who do
(05:54):
come through a classical model of education are much more
prepared no matter what type of a career or college
or adult pursuits that they have.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Right, it used to be that this kind of well
rounded student was what the teachers' unions and the public
schools said that they wanted. And now it's like a
niche thing that you get elsewhere. It almost makes no sense, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Unfortunately, I started sixth classical charter schools, so I know
what it takes to get them started, and I know
what it takes to train teachers to teach classically, and
it is much more difficult to do than what the
traditional public schools are doing.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
You know, the traditional public schools are saying that teachers.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Don't really need to be background experts or content experts
in their field. They are not the stage on the stage,
they're the guide on the side, so they don't have
to have that expertise. And in a classical environment, we're
hiring history majors, math major right English majors because you
really have to know your stuff to be able to
teach it. And not only that, when you teach explicit products,
(06:58):
for example, very repetitive, you have to do the same
thing every single day, repeat, repeat, repeat, as opposed to,
you know, letting kids explore this kind of whole language
and feel good model of education. And our teachers' colleges
and institutions of education have totally failed to repair our
teachers appropriately for this type of education.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So it's going to take a huge shift.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
In that entire preparation process in order for the traditional
public school system to come on board.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
So you're clearly very passionate about education. What would you
be doing if it wasn't this, What would have plan
be been?
Speaker 4 (07:36):
You know? I, of course, I was on a great
trajectory at the time. I really thought I was going
to finish my career at where I started it at
Dalton Grindor Hartman mar I had spent almost twenty years there,
and between the CEO and myself as the CFO, we
were the next generation of partners that were really going
to carry that firm forward, and there was no reason
(07:57):
to think that I wouldn't just continue in that career
trajectory and do well in it. But I just was
so passionate about solving this problem. We have an education
crisis in our country and I couldn't sit by any
longer and not do that. Now, in the age of
AI and technology, I'm really excited about this new technological
(08:19):
revolution that is happening, not just for education but business
and industry. And I do dabble in that side of
things a bit. I'm a bit of an entrepreneur, like perpetually.
I get that from my father. So yeah, I mean
I can't imagine doing anything else right now.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
But right now, I think you have your hands full
right now for sure.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
But yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I think the entrepreneur gene, you either have it or
you don't, like I think I so don't have that.
I have owned my own business in the past, and
I did not enjoy it at all. But it's because
it's all consuming. It's not you don't close the door
and go home. It comes with you everywhere you go.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
And it's it's quite a lot.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, you know, Actually, my grandfather was an entrepreneur.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
My mom has always owned her own business for the
past thirty years.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
My dad is the perpetual entrepreneur.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Like I am starting a whole bunch of different things
and having big, big ideas.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
So it's definitely in my blood and I enjoy it.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
I enjoy the fact that when you are an entrepreneur,
you can set a goal for yourself and you don't
have to ask anyone else if that goal is okay,
and you can just start to pursue it and build
a team and inspire people around that goal, whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
That's the most exciting thing about entrepreneurship.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
The worst thing about entrepreneurship is it's a lot of
it is on your shoulders.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
It is very can be stressful.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
It's a big risk, it's all but that's excitement and
also like stress.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Excitement and lots and lots of stress.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I do recommend it, though, highly recommend.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
So your husband is running for governor, You're at his
side a lot, and you know, I want this interview
to be about you, But what I wanted to ask
you is, you know, when he gets attacked, do you
how do you handle it? When Byron Donald's got some
very racist attacks from a terrible opponent, you know, who's
gonna hopefully get under five percent.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I wanted to go have a fistfight on his behalf.
How do you handle that kind of thing aimed at
your husband.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Yeah, well, we've been the subject of all kinds of
attacks over the years. I mean, as someone who started
charter schools, I've had the Teachers' union say some of
the most disgusting things about me in public, right in
public meetings.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
So, I guess you just develop a very thick skin
of mission focus and what you're doing, and you know
that if you're doing something worthwhile, you're going to have
haters that are going to come against you. And that's
just the way life is. When it comes to attacking him,
I do I think get more upset about attacks against
him than against Night, of course, because I know how
(10:52):
hard he works, I know how much heart he has
for what he's doing, for helping people. He cares about
people so much. He loves this contry. He has a
great track record.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I just hate it.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
When people lie about him or lie about me, and
especially the track record, because it's verifiable. You're like, can
you just go look at it and not lie about it?
But you just you can't spend too much time on
that because we don't have enough time to accomplish things
as it is, so I just catch myself like you,
why are you reading this?
Speaker 3 (11:21):
It doesn't even matter? And I mute and block people
like it's no I mean.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
One hundreds of two all muted and blocked, so that
I just don't even get distracted by the nonsense.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
That's such a good perspective. I have to, like, I
have to, you know, have fewer fistfights. I think I'm
from Brooklyn, you know, it's usually the way we got.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
I'm very familiar with the Brooklyn way, as my husband's
from Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
So yeah, we're going to take a quick break and
be right back on the Carol Marcowitch Show.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
What are you most proud of in your life?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Wow, you know, I've got my three boys back here.
They're much littler than they're now twenty two, eighteen, and fourteen,
and they're amazing boys. My twenty two year old graduated college,
a college athlete. He's in New York actually now working
in financial services and just doing amazing. And my freshmen
now just graduated freshman year from college, is home now
(12:18):
for the summer.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
He's achieving his dreams.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
He's the one who got me into school choice that
I was told really to be on medication or in
a special classroom, and I just refused. And that's why
I pulled him out and started looking for something else.
He's never been on medication, never been in a special classroom,
graduated with honors, got a scholarship, you know, is pursuing
his dreams.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I think that.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Of course, as a mom, that's always you know, something
that you're most proud of.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
But my schools are my kids as well. You know.
I've started several.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Schools that are often running on their own, just like kids,
you know, you start them up, you grow them up
to a certain point, and they have to fly on
their own. And all of my schools that I've started
are doing incredibly well well and serving families in their communities.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
And I'm very very proud of that.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
But I think I love that.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
I think the thing I'm most proud of for me,
it goes back to a proverb bookmark that my grandmother
gave me that said, a good name is better to
be had than great riches. And my good name and
my reputation amongst people who know me, who have worked
with me, is the most important thing to me and
always has been, and that's I think where when people
(13:27):
try to damage your reputation with lies, it really but
does bother me because it is the most valuable thing
that I believe that I have in life, and it's
something that I protect and I guard very closely.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
I think you have to mention your youngest son because
I know when I do interviews and I mentioned two
out of three.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Yeah, a fourteen year old is just finishing up eighth
grade and going into high school, and he is such
a go getter. I mean he's he is one that
not necessarily from an academic person, but when he has
a goal or he's working on something, he is so
laser focused on that he could basically do anything. He's
(14:07):
everyone's best friend. I have no idea what he's going
to do in life, whether he's going to play college
sports or be an entrepreneur or going to the military.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
He's talked about all these different things.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
I just know that he's going to be successful at
whatever it is that he decides to do. He's always
known the political life, so people always ask like, what
do your kids think.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
It's like, this is just normal.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
And he has me the most because he was a
baby when a Byron first ran for office, so he
really has just been steeped in it the whole time.
And he just rolls with the punches. You can take
him anywhere. He's just down for whatever. And that's how
you want your kids to be when you're in this mode,
because you know they've got to just embrace it.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
And he absolutely has.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Very youngest kid energy there very much, very much. Who
knows what they're going to be. I also have three.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
My youngest is the mystery, you know, I just don't
know where they're going to end up.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Could be anything. Yeah, So how did.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
You when Byron decides to run. How do you guys
make that decision together?
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Man, Well, the very first time he decided to run
was during the Tea Party movement. We had just gotten
involved in what you could say was politics, but we
didn't really think of it that way at the time,
since we were in financial services. We were kind of
protesting the bailouts and the Fannie May and Freddie Mac
like all the stuff that was going on in our
industry at the time, not really thinking of it as
(15:30):
like Republican politics or conservative politics.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
But we did get involved.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
In the Herman Kane campaign and meet movement. Did you really?
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
My very first political job was interning on the Herman
Kane US Senate campaign in Georgia.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
That's so cool.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
So when that was over, our congressman wasn't running and
people kept telling Byron he should run. So he comes
home and tells me that, and I was like, how
do you even do that?
Speaker 3 (15:56):
And literally we're googling how to run for congress?
Speaker 4 (16:00):
And I ordered books online on Amazon and read them,
and I was his campaign manager and he ran in
twenty twelve. He lost, but we won our county out
of the two counties that covered the congressional district. And
that's how we kind of got involved in the first place.
I later then ran for school board. Then he ran
for state house. So we got involved in the local
(16:23):
Republican party. But we didn't even know there was a
quote local Republican party, Like you didn't know there was
an apparatus that you had to like get involved in.
But we learned quickly and we did it together, and
it was more just like me supporting his dream. I
had gone back to school after we had our first child,
and he was so supportive and just was mister mom
(16:45):
when I was having to study for the CPA exam,
et cetera. So when he wanted to do this, I
did the same thing back, like, whatever you need, I'll
you know, I'm here for you, I'll run your campaign,
I'll knock doors. And you just do that for each
other when you're you're married, your partners in life.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I love that story. Actually, I think that's exactly the
way to do it.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Support each other at different times when you need support, Like,
I don't think it should always be one part. Like
I think we get a lot of arguments that women
are supposed to be the supporters in every you know,
thing that men want to do, and that's fine, but
a lot of times men need to be the supporters
at different phases as well.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
No, Enviyron absolutely has with every crazy idea I've had,
whether it's going back.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
To school, the wives that have the crazy ideas, those
are the best, running for school board, giving up a
really great career and start a nonprofit.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
You know you've supported me through all that.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Those are the best. The best men who do that. Yeah,
give us a five year out prediction.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
It could be about anything at all.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
The most important five year prediction I have is about
education freedom. You know, we've been working to build this
education freedom economy, as I call it, this parallel economy
where parents get the money from the state or now
from perhaps the federal tax credit, and they can spend
that money on new innovative school models. Maybe they're existing
(18:07):
private schools, but there are a lot more options coming
online and have been since COVID. Micro schools, hybrid schools,
online programs. You know, you have the Alpha school AI
driven programs that are.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Going to be coming.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
I just think education is going to be much more
customized and modular as we move forward. The states that
have education freedom are going to continue to expand that.
More and more families are going to be demanding school choice,
and it's.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Just going to look very different in five years than
anything we've seen.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
I think it's going to accelerate even more than what
we've seen since COVID, especially with all the new technology
and with all the new funding available. We have never
invited innovation into education because parents have never had access
to funds to be consumers, and now they're going to
be making choices that they've never made before, and more
(18:56):
and more innovators are going to come into the space. Saying, hey, parents,
spend your money here, right, I have a great solution
for you and your child. And I'm really excited to
see how this develops over the next five ten years.
When my grandchildren are going into school. I think my
kids are going to be customizing every aspect of their education,
and I think that's just incredibly exciting.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Do you think that the school choice battle has been won?
Do you feel victorious?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I do feel victorious in a way.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
I think we've come over one hump, like that first
hump when you talk about starting a business, Right, You've
got to get over that first hump of where most
businesses fail. Right, you have to pursue past all of
the initial opposition. And we have achieved that. We've got
eighteen states with at least universal eligibility for school choice.
We've now got a federal program, and we've won in
(19:46):
the court of public opinion over seventy percent of Democrats
and Republicans, independents everyone supports school choice. So that's the
first phase of win. But the next phase is to
make it all work together. Rules and laws make it
very difficult not only for parents to access funds, but
for provider to come online for providers to get approved
(20:08):
in this.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
State or that state.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
There's zoning laws that are just ridiculous and stop people
from opening schools. So I think we are on that
next frontier that requires us to get full funding. I mean,
out of twenty seven million eligible, only about one million
in this country are actually fully funded and enrolled.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
So we've got to get over.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
That hump and get all the laws in line so
that providers who are doing really well can go from
state to state and actually scale the programs.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Erica, I have loved talking to you.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
I could talk about education actually forever, and you're so knowledgeable, Like,
listen to you talk about this. This is like, clearly
you know something that you love and feel very deeply
passionate about. Leave us here with your best tip from
my listeners on how they can improve their lives.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
Well, if you're a parent, you can improve by taking
full control and responsibility for your children and their education.
I tell parents all the time, I don't care what
the situation is or how much money you make or
where you live. If you feel that your child is
not getting the very best education experience possible, if they
don't love learning, you can take control of that. Whether
(21:17):
it means homeschooling, online schooling, a private school, or some
other combination of it. You as a parent know what's
best for your kids, and you should take full control
of that and feel confident, say a prayer about it,
of course, but also lean on yourself, in your own
gut and your own understanding to make those best decisions
for your kids. If every parent does that in this country,
(21:40):
we'll be able to save this country and preserve our republic.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
That is perfect.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I love that so much. Be the parent is the message.
I think all parents know what their kids need, especially
in education, and you.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Should go fight for it.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And I truly believe that she is Erica Donald's follow
her on x She's such a wonderful follow She really
teaches me a lot.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Thank you so much, Erica for coming on.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Thanks so much for having me in for everything that
you do.
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