On this episode of The Truth with Lisa Boothe, Lisa sits down with Scott Mechkowski, a 22-year ICE veteran and former Deputy Field Office Director for ICE’s New York City Field Office, to discuss the growing battle over immigration enforcement, sanctuary state policies, and deportation operations in America.
Markowski shares firsthand insight into how sanctuary city and sanctuary state laws impact ICE operations, why detention facilities like Delaney Hall have become political flashpoints, and what happens after illegal immigrants receive deportation orders. He also explains the challenges ICE agents face on the job, rising hostility toward law enforcement, and why he believes many misconceptions about immigration enforcement persist in the public debate.
The conversation covers New York Governor Kathy Hochul's latest sanctuary state legislation, Border Czar Tom Homan’s response, the role of detention centers in the deportation process, criminal illegal immigration, public safety concerns, and the future of immigration enforcement under President Trump.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Truth With Lisa Booth, we'll get to
the heart of the issues that matter to you.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Today.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
I've got Scott Mkowski on the show. He is a
twenty two year veteran of ICE who served as a
deputy Field Office director for the agency's New York City
Field Office. He's also on the advisory board for the
National Immigration Center for Enforcement and a visiting fellow for
deportation studies for the Oversight Project. So he's done a
whole lot of work on the immigration front, particularly getting
(00:26):
dangerous criminals out of our country. So we're going to
talk about a whole bunch of stuff with him. In
New York State, Kathy Hochl, the governor there, recently signed
a law basically making New York a sanctuary state. In
response the bordersaw, Tom Holman said that he is going
to ramp up enforcement efforts in places like New York City.
(00:48):
So we're going to talk to Scott get his insight
on that. Also, we're going to get his insight onto
Delaney Hall, the deportation center in New Jersey becoming a
flashpoint in politics, particularly with the left. Why has it
become so controversial? What do you need to know about
the deportation process. A lot of those cases are adjudicated,
(01:08):
so why is LEFT making such a big deal over it.
So we're going to talk about all of this, the
sanctuary city and state obstacles, what sort of criminals he
experienced and he saw during his time in the field,
how difficult some of these policies make it for ICE
officials like him to do their jobs.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I'll just talk about morale as well.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I mean, we all remember after Ferguson and the whole
war on cops that even Democrat former Mayor Ram Emmanuel
said that police officers run the feudal position, that they're
afraid to do their jobs. Are ICE agents facing that
same fear? So we're going to do all that and
more with Scott mccowski.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Stay tuned well, Scott mccowski. It's great to have you
on and to.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Have your expertise, you know, serving as a deputy Field
Office director for ICE's New York City Field Office immigration issues.
To get you in the country right now. But appreciate
you for making the time PIX.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Thank you so much for having me. It's pleasure to
be here.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I mean, I imagine how hard is it to be
an ICE officer right now in the country. I'm sure
you're in touch with folks. Still, what's morale like?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Morale's always been something that DHS, you know, has suffered with,
right meaning just the entire agency because of leadership. Right So, I,
the men and women of ICE EER, the ones that
are out there every day, we get it. You know,
we've never been liked. You know, they don't have parades
for us. We don't make the news. We're just acquiet professionals.
(02:41):
And we've been dealing with this. This has been going
on for twenty five years, longer since since I was
in in nineteen ninety six, so when we were former
I and S, so we're used to it. You know,
it's you've become numb.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Have you ever seen it at this bad though?
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Because you know, we know that Christinolman, who's now no
longer sectuary of Homeland Security, but she'd previously said when
I was co hosting Fox and Friends one day, that
we had border patrol agents with bounties on their heads
to be kidnapped, to be killed. We know that we've
seen an assault increase exponentially, vehicle rammings. You've got major
(03:23):
government figures like Governor Tim Walls labeling ICE as the Gestapo.
So I mean, like, have you ever seen it this
bad where there's this sort of you know, collective and
intentional onslaught directed at eight.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I would say from the politicians, No, but we've had
you know, we've had people come after us, you know,
it docs us, but to this level.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
No.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
With social media and these different platforms, the funding, the coordination,
it's a lot different now than it was before I
retired in twenty and eighteen. So this is this is funded,
you know, it's it's well organized, and it's manufactured. So yeah,
I've never seen it this bad, but I do think
(04:08):
today's environment it's a lot different than it was when
I retired in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Well, we know that Delaney Hall in New Jersey has
become a flashpoint. You know, we've seen I think at
one point there had been you know, thirteen politicians on
the left that had you know, gone to protest and
to you know make a point there.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
What do we know about some of the people being
detained there?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
And why do you think this has become such a
flashpoint politically?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Listen, Delaney Hall is in a strategic place. Number One,
right for operations. I mean, name another airport in the
name another region in the in the country that's got
three major international airports within a fifty mile radius, right,
So you know we all know that. You know, you
need to have air to be able to make deportations, right,
(04:58):
we need more commas. In order to do that, you
got to fly these people out. So that's number that's
number one. Number two, you got these blue covet you know,
the Blue states, and I call I live in a
blue state in New Jersey. And you know, I mean listen,
Mikey Cheryl just got into office fifteen minutes ago, and
you know she's already made fifteen executive orders all at ice,
(05:19):
not on anything else, not on the cost of living,
not on the electric not on you know, it's all
immigration focused because this is what they are falling back
on and the Kim the midterms are coming. The only
thing they're running on is immigration. So it's this fear
campaign that they're on. I mean, listen, if you don't
(05:40):
think that was strategic that Mikey Cheryl shows up a
Memorial Day at the Laney Hall and says, they locked
me out of here. You know, half the people in
New Jersey. Three quarters of the people in New Jersey
have no idea what the oversight rules are. So, you know,
take that for what it's worth.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
You know, I believe you testified about the importance of
the ten centers. You know, I guess talk just about
the importance of these detention centers and why we have them.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
So, I mean, that is the mechanism, right, we said
that that triggers the removal. It doesn't work. You know
these people, you know, people that go into proceedings, right,
they go before an immigration judge, and an immigration judge says, oh, well,
you know, you're not a bad guy, you're not a criminal.
You just you know, you came into the country illegally
or you overstayed your visa. You came in legally and
(06:28):
you overstayed, but you got caught. We're gonna give you
voluntary departure. Okay, you got one hundred and twenty days
on your own, because you're of good moral character, right,
you're gonna leave on your own. So they give them
the order of voluntary departure. Let them walk out of
the courtroom, you know, and then five years later we're
running into them and oh, you never left the country. No, well,
(06:49):
now you have a deportation order, so now you have
to go. And so the only way to get people
removed is to have custody of them. It doesn't work.
It's not like people are voluntarily going to get on
the plane with a deportation order and leave on their own.
So the detention, the detention is the capacity to have
(07:10):
so you could affect the removal.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
We've seen two with some of these raids in different
parts of the country where a lot of these individuals
are facing deportation orders from different administrations, you know. So
some of them were facing deportations orders from the Bide
administration from Obama, right, So with like bipartisanship, they've already
got like to talk about the process to get a
deportation order because these cases have been adjudicated. In a
(07:34):
lot of these instances, when someone at the point that
someone has a deportation order, they've already gone through the
legal proceedings. So I mean they've had a full process
to appeal to try to you know, to fight it.
And so I guess break down a little bit about
the process that some of these people go through before
they're deported.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
So you know, each case is different. Right, there's different
sections of law. It depends on what section of law
is applicable to that person. Right. But you know, if
you got somebody that's a recent entry that came across
the border and they were encountered, they're probably an exclusion proceedings, right,
which means they're inadmissible and in admissibility. You know, if
(08:13):
we could prove with that you've entered the country within
the recently within two years, you're expedite at removal. You're
not a title to a hearing. You know, you get
an actual like a master hearing. You just you know,
we're basically sending you back to where you came from. Right,
it's an expedited removal. It's in the law. You know,
you can get removed under section two seventeen, which is
a visa waiver. Where these people came from like the
(08:36):
UK over state of visa. You know, they're not a
title to a hearing. With your expedite removed them, we
send them back. But the ones that have come through
the basically through the border, you know, you you you
give them a notice they're supposed to appear at court.
Many don't report the court and get orders of removal
in absentia. You know, so, but this isn't like a
(08:58):
thing that's quick, Lisa. These things take years. I mean
before I left, I remember the day before I was
going to retire, I was signing off on the case
and I checked it for legal sufficiency. It was October
of twenty eighteen, and this is in New York City.
The guy's first master calend or the first hearing for
that case was scheduled in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Tom Homan, the Borders Are made a promise to Kathy
Hochel that if the human increased sized presence in New
York at the state past legislation barring state and local
law enforcement from working with immigration in New York, jail's
hope will signed the bill into law. And then Homan
has promised to deploy more ICE agents than you've ever
(09:44):
seen in this city.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Walk us through that.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
What do you make of that is just the right call,
you know, talk to us a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
We've tried to go to the table to negotiate. You know,
this is going on for years. It started and build
the BLASI under Obama, you know their term where you know,
give us access to the jails right, like, we want
the criminals. So Rikers Island, upstate, downstate. You know, we
got all these people that are foreign nationals, foreign born
(10:13):
that are in these facilities with violent criminal records, and
we want them. So, you know, if you're not going
to cooperate, you know, we used to have a trailer
on Rikers Island where we weren't taxing you know, any
of the Department of Corrections people to do work for us.
We were doing the work ourselves. So we were triage
and intake. We were finding out who these people were.
(10:33):
We wrote the cases of all we did was drop
a detainer and annually before they stopped cooperation, we were
getting about twenty eight to thirty one hundred criminal aliens
a year just out of rikers At Island. And that
cooperation stopped in twenty fourteen. And so, you know, instead
of these politicians, you know, these governors, these you know,
(10:56):
these elected officials, I don't call them leaders because they're
not leaders that are elected officials. They double down on
this because they think this is what the people really want.
They're not making New York City any safer, that's that's
number one. They're releasing them into this very community they
say they're they're trying to protect. ICE is taking people
off the streets, and there's a direct correlation between ICE's
(11:19):
cooperation and crime being reduced.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, you think you would want dangerous criminals removed from
your city and your state?
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I don't understand how there's
anybody that could say, well, you know, that doesn't make
any sense, and so ICE is forced to. You know, listen,
Congress enacted these laws. We didn't we you know, Section
two thirty six, mandatory detention. You know, they they created
eight CFR. They the Court of Federal Regulations. They're the
(11:53):
ones that enacted these laws. And yet they're the ones
that are running around screaming that these are racists. ICE
is a Nazi organization. ICE is this They're following directives,
plain and simple.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
There's a former deputy Field Office director, like, how do
laws like that? How much more difficult does that make
your job in cities like New York City?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I mean, New York City's a melting pot. Okay, we
get it. There's almost every nationality that that there is
it cohabitates in New York City, right, I mean they're everywhere.
You know, when you go to Washington Heights. What you're
going to encounter, you know, you know what's going to
happen when you go to Bushwick or Brooklyn or Williamsburg.
Like it's a it's a melting pot. Ice isn't out
(12:40):
there indiscriminately just stopping people on the trains, you know.
But but they'll they'll say, well, you know, Ice boarded
the train today, the A train, and they were I
d and everybody that wasn't Ice. It was transit. But
my point to that is is these these elected officials
want to insteal fear in those communities and so that
(13:01):
the big enemy here is Ice, you know what I mean.
So it's an effective campaign and they've been running it
for years, and to be honest with you, Lisa, DHS
is you know, their campaign hasn't been the best. You know,
we don't really vocalize all the good that DHS does
on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Now that's true.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
You know, every once in a while you hear something like,
you know, Ice did this. I mean, I'll give you
an example. Before I retired, my unit in New York
City did an operation. It was a five day operation
and the standard was that you had to go after
anybody that was called a sexual offender, right, sexual criminal offenses. Okay,
(13:45):
we arrested something like one hundred I'm sorry. In five days,
we arrested ninety seven sex offenders. Sixty seven of them were.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Child like molesters.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah, child molesters out of the ninety seven. So we
had to go do something and release it in the press.
They released it. They released it on Sunday in the
New York Post. Like I think it was like the
New York Post, like on page thirty two, next to
an ad for PC Richards, you know what I mean.
It wasn't like it was the headlines. You would think
(14:18):
that if you know people went in your community and
took ninety seven sex offenders off your streets. You know
these are convicted people, right, ninety seven in five days,
you'd want it on the front page. You know, it's
the campaign. It wasn't. Ice didn't broadcast it. Ice didn't
make an ad or a TV ad, or they didn't
do anything with it. You know, the mainstream media isn't
(14:40):
going to print the good because it doesn't fit their narrative.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Click break.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
If you like what you're hearing, please share on social
media or send it to your family and friends. We
learned a little bit, said, I mean, I was pretty
shocked because out of Minneapolis, you know, DHS did put
out some of the people who were you know, captured
or whatever you want to call it, and we had
(15:05):
there were individuals that they found roaming the streets who
had sodomized children.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Know, And it's like, so it's like, it's beyond me
how individuals like Tim Walls would fight the deportation of
people like that make it more difficult for ICE to
scoop them up and then label the individuals who are
getting those you know, terrible human beings off our streets
(15:34):
as the Gestapo, you know, like it's like the priorities
that that states of some of these politicians to me
is just like sickening.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Yep, absolutely, Lisa, listen, you know, with a straight face
that get in front of the camera and say that
we were kidnapping people. These are elected officials like may
or Fry, Like are you serious? Like how are you
saying they're kidnapped? You know, I mean, and they play
into this, like these NGOs that are getting billions of
(16:04):
our taxpayer money, right are the ones funding this all?
Look at Delaney Hall. Great example, Delaney Hall, there's a
hunger strike. Now there's not a hunger strike because the
commis every sales aren't record highs for the last month. Okay.
Organizations like Soma they have one hundred and twenty thousand
(16:24):
dollars that was donated to them. These people sign up
for a subscription right to feed the tainees at Delaney Hall.
So if you're at Delaney Hall, would you want the
regular food that Geo's gonna serve or would you want
yellowfin tuna or chicken terioki and maybe hot cheetos and
honey buns. I'm gonna go with the ladder, you know
(16:47):
what I mean. So, so like this is all manufactured,
it's funded, it's coordinated for specific reasons. You know, when
they go to do these oversights Lisa at like you know,
Andy Kim a Memorial Day, they're knocking on the door,
like you just can't close the facility down because some
senator decided to show up unannounced. You know, they could
(17:10):
be doing head count, they could have been dealing with
a medical emergency. Maybe they were moving people, maybe they
were doing the count. Maybe people were out at wreck.
You know, but these politicians will turn around and say, uh,
you know, ICE is denying the entry, like we're hiding something.
You know, it's an Ice has got nothing to hide.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
You know, before we go, what do you think is missing? Sometimes?
You know, obviously there's been a lot of conversations about
Ice about immigration, particularly since President Trump won reelection. Is
there anything that you feel like gets missed in the
conversations that's important to point out before we go.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Yeah, the men and women that are the men and
women are eer and the people who assist them are
out there for the best interest of all Americans.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
They are trying to keep our community safe. We don't
know who half of these people are, Okay, Like, you know,
rather than the politicians, I'll give you a great example.
You look at the unaccompanied children that we're missing. Look
at like like four hundred thousand of them went to
people they weren't even vetted. Who who does that? Who
releases children to people who aren't unvetted? We know nothing
(18:21):
about these people when they come across the border unvetted,
and yet we want people. There's people in this country
like Joe Biden and Kamala Harrison, the rest of the
governors that doubled down on it and said, come to
my come to my community. These are military age, fighting men,
and we don't know what they've done in their countries,
(18:42):
and yet you're releasing them into our own, our own communities.
So Ero's job is basically to enforce the laws and
keep our community safer. We do what we call precision policing.
You know, we have a file, we follow that file
to its end, and we make sure when that case
just finalized that whatever was adjudicated is you know, affected,
(19:07):
meaning if there's an order of removal, we're the ones
that want to make sure that person gets on the
plane it goes back to their country.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, and your point about with the I mean, we
saw record numbers of people trying to enter and entering
into the country under the Biden administration, and we also
know that there was a record number of people trying
to get in who were on the terror watch list.
We know that there were Iranian nationals that entered the country,
(19:34):
Chinese nationals, you know, Russian or enemies right that are
entering into the country. You know, So you would think
even with that, there would be interest on both sides
of the aisle to expel some of these people coming
in from you know, enemy nations that might wish us harm.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
I mean, yeah, if you look at all the people
who are really protesting, Okay, it's not the families of
the people's detained, right, you know, it's not. It's young.
It's young Caucasian radicals, right, who hate the government, who
despise Trump, despise everything that the guy stands for, and
(20:11):
so they want to push back and push back. They
believe in open borders, So they don't even know what
they're really there for, you know what I mean. So,
and they're being paid. I mean, these people are being
paid to be there, Lisa, That's what nobody's talking about.
That's not a protest. That's a coordinated rally, you know
what I mean. It's funded.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, it's it's sad.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Come on de Lanium home and check it out. You
won't believe it. These people, there's people. It's funny. Van Drew,
Congressman Van Drew goes there with other you know, congress
people from the state of New Jersey. They took a tour, right.
Van Drew comes out, looks to everybody in the face
and the camera and it says, you know what I
(20:55):
saw on there wasn't bad. I mean, I just don't
know why these people are so hung up. Right, come
after a GEO facility and they say, well, it's it's
a it's a it's a profit right, it's a what
do they call it. What's the word that they're using.
It's a you know, corporate for profit. Well, listen, the
state could have actually addressed that. We used to Lisa
(21:16):
in years and before they started this, we were using
all of the county jails in New Jersey. You have
twenty one county jails. So if we were like you know,
im Mercer or Momuth or Middlesex or Hudson Bergen, Sussex,
we would we would lodge our detainees there and we
would pay the state one hundred and twenty seven, one
hundred and twenty eight dollars a night for them to
(21:38):
hold this person. Some of these some of these counties
were making millions of dollars detaining ice tainees. And then
they said nope, nope, no more, that's it, end of it, okay,
So then we had nowhere to hold them. That's why
we're flying them the Louisiana.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
You know, before we go, one thing I wanted to
ask you about is we saw after Ferguson and you know,
sort of the lies about police officers, that cops were
afraid to do their jobs. We even saw former Mayor
ron Manuel Well still in office in Chicago, had said
(22:14):
that cops were in the fetal position as a result.
You know, they were afraid. They're scared to do the drugs.
They didn't want to get Yes, is I in the
same position now in terms of, you know, scared that
even carrying out their duties could land them and you know,
getting docs or could land them in trouble.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
He said, that has always been something in the back
of our minds, right because they're going out there doing
their job, okay, like they're just they're not sitting there
worried about there were more worried about these people using
over now you know, people feeling like they have the
right to assault them and they're going to get away
(22:54):
with it. There There is no there's no respect for
law enforcement anymore in this country, right, and it's because
we've decriminalized almost everything in this country, so you know,
and and the system is tilted. You know, they don't
respect law enforcement ever since Ferguson, which was which was
a lie, right, I mean, it turned out to be
(23:15):
all a big you know, it was a lie. The
cop didn't shoot Michael in the back. You know he
you know. It perpetuates hates and that's what the that's
what that one side of the aisle loves to do
is use law enforcement and people who are enforcing the
law against its own people because they want the system
broken down. Look at New York City. You think the
(23:36):
cops in New York City want to respond to anything. No,
they don't, because if they do one thing wrong, they're
gonna they're gonna go to the CCR beat, they're gonna
get suspended, they're gonna they might go even go to
jail for doing their jobs. You know, So Ice, Ice,
I mean, I don't know if you live in New
(23:57):
York City, but you know, listen, you know, like people
used to say, you know, I don't like the broken
windows policies. Well guess what crime wasn't rampant when there
was the broken windows policy? You know what I mean,
people were going to New York and unprecedented numbers. And
now it's kind of like nobody wants to go to
New York.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I mean, yeah, Scott mkowsky.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
You appreciate you coming on the show and thank you
for your service to the country. So I know I
appreciate it, and I know my listeners appreciate it as well.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Lisa, thank you for having me, and you know, thank
you for being reasonable. You know this is a great interview.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
That was Scott mccowsky. You appreciate him for coming on
the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every
Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week.
Also want to thank John Cassio for putting the show together.
Until next time.
Welcome to the Truth With Lisa Booth, we'll get to
the heart of the issues that matter to you.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Today.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
I've got Scott Mkowski on the show. He is a
twenty two year veteran of ICE who served as a
deputy Field Office director for the agency's New York City
Field Office. He's also on the advisory board for the
National Immigration Center for Enforcement and a visiting fellow for
deportation studies for the Oversight Project. So he's done a
whole lot of work on the immigration front, particularly getting
(00:26):
dangerous criminals out of our country. So we're going to
talk about a whole bunch of stuff with him. In
New York State, Kathy Hochl, the governor there, recently signed
a law basically making New York a sanctuary state. In
response the bordersaw, Tom Holman said that he is going
to ramp up enforcement efforts in places like New York City.
(00:48):
So we're going to talk to Scott get his insight
on that. Also, we're going to get his insight onto
Delaney Hall, the deportation center in New Jersey becoming a
flashpoint in politics, particularly with the left. Why has it
become so controversial? What do you need to know about
the deportation process. A lot of those cases are adjudicated,
(01:08):
so why is LEFT making such a big deal over it.
So we're going to talk about all of this, the
sanctuary city and state obstacles, what sort of criminals he
experienced and he saw during his time in the field,
how difficult some of these policies make it for ICE
officials like him to do their jobs.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I'll just talk about morale as well.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I mean, we all remember after Ferguson and the whole
war on cops that even Democrat former Mayor Ram Emmanuel
said that police officers run the feudal position, that they're
afraid to do their jobs. Are ICE agents facing that
same fear? So we're going to do all that and
more with Scott mccowski.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Stay tuned well, Scott mccowski. It's great to have you
on and to.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Have your expertise, you know, serving as a deputy Field
Office director for ICE's New York City Field Office immigration issues.
To get you in the country right now. But appreciate
you for making the time PIX.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Thank you so much for having me. It's pleasure to
be here.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I mean, I imagine how hard is it to be
an ICE officer right now in the country. I'm sure
you're in touch with folks. Still, what's morale like?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Morale's always been something that DHS, you know, has suffered with,
right meaning just the entire agency because of leadership. Right So, I,
the men and women of ICE EER, the ones that
are out there every day, we get it. You know,
we've never been liked. You know, they don't have parades
for us. We don't make the news. We're just acquiet professionals.
(02:41):
And we've been dealing with this. This has been going
on for twenty five years, longer since since I was
in in nineteen ninety six, so when we were former
I and S, so we're used to it. You know,
it's you've become numb.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Have you ever seen it at this bad though?
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Because you know, we know that Christinolman, who's now no
longer sectuary of Homeland Security, but she'd previously said when
I was co hosting Fox and Friends one day, that
we had border patrol agents with bounties on their heads
to be kidnapped, to be killed. We know that we've
seen an assault increase exponentially, vehicle rammings. You've got major
(03:23):
government figures like Governor Tim Walls labeling ICE as the Gestapo.
So I mean, like, have you ever seen it this
bad where there's this sort of you know, collective and
intentional onslaught directed at eight.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I would say from the politicians, No, but we've had
you know, we've had people come after us, you know,
it docs us, but to this level.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
No.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
With social media and these different platforms, the funding, the coordination,
it's a lot different now than it was before I
retired in twenty and eighteen. So this is this is funded,
you know, it's it's well organized, and it's manufactured. So yeah,
I've never seen it this bad, but I do think
(04:08):
today's environment it's a lot different than it was when
I retired in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Well, we know that Delaney Hall in New Jersey has
become a flashpoint. You know, we've seen I think at
one point there had been you know, thirteen politicians on
the left that had you know, gone to protest and
to you know make a point there.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
What do we know about some of the people being
detained there?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
And why do you think this has become such a
flashpoint politically?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Listen, Delaney Hall is in a strategic place. Number One,
right for operations. I mean, name another airport in the
name another region in the in the country that's got
three major international airports within a fifty mile radius, right,
So you know we all know that. You know, you
need to have air to be able to make deportations, right,
(04:58):
we need more commas. In order to do that, you
got to fly these people out. So that's number that's
number one. Number two, you got these blue covet you know,
the Blue states, and I call I live in a
blue state in New Jersey. And you know, I mean listen,
Mikey Cheryl just got into office fifteen minutes ago, and
you know she's already made fifteen executive orders all at ice,
(05:19):
not on anything else, not on the cost of living,
not on the electric not on you know, it's all
immigration focused because this is what they are falling back
on and the Kim the midterms are coming. The only
thing they're running on is immigration. So it's this fear
campaign that they're on. I mean, listen, if you don't
(05:40):
think that was strategic that Mikey Cheryl shows up a
Memorial Day at the Laney Hall and says, they locked
me out of here. You know, half the people in
New Jersey. Three quarters of the people in New Jersey
have no idea what the oversight rules are. So, you know,
take that for what it's worth.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
You know, I believe you testified about the importance of
the ten centers. You know, I guess talk just about
the importance of these detention centers and why we have them.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
So, I mean, that is the mechanism, right, we said
that that triggers the removal. It doesn't work. You know
these people, you know, people that go into proceedings, right,
they go before an immigration judge, and an immigration judge says, oh, well,
you know, you're not a bad guy, you're not a criminal.
You just you know, you came into the country illegally
or you overstayed your visa. You came in legally and
(06:28):
you overstayed, but you got caught. We're gonna give you
voluntary departure. Okay, you got one hundred and twenty days
on your own, because you're of good moral character, right,
you're gonna leave on your own. So they give them
the order of voluntary departure. Let them walk out of
the courtroom, you know, and then five years later we're
running into them and oh, you never left the country. No, well,
(06:49):
now you have a deportation order, so now you have
to go. And so the only way to get people
removed is to have custody of them. It doesn't work.
It's not like people are voluntarily going to get on
the plane with a deportation order and leave on their own.
So the detention, the detention is the capacity to have
(07:10):
so you could affect the removal.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
We've seen two with some of these raids in different
parts of the country where a lot of these individuals
are facing deportation orders from different administrations, you know. So
some of them were facing deportations orders from the Bide
administration from Obama, right, So with like bipartisanship, they've already
got like to talk about the process to get a
deportation order because these cases have been adjudicated. In a
(07:34):
lot of these instances, when someone at the point that
someone has a deportation order, they've already gone through the
legal proceedings. So I mean they've had a full process
to appeal to try to you know, to fight it.
And so I guess break down a little bit about
the process that some of these people go through before
they're deported.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
So you know, each case is different. Right, there's different
sections of law. It depends on what section of law
is applicable to that person. Right. But you know, if
you got somebody that's a recent entry that came across
the border and they were encountered, they're probably an exclusion proceedings, right,
which means they're inadmissible and in admissibility. You know, if
(08:13):
we could prove with that you've entered the country within
the recently within two years, you're expedite at removal. You're
not a title to a hearing. You know, you get
an actual like a master hearing. You just you know,
we're basically sending you back to where you came from. Right,
it's an expedited removal. It's in the law. You know,
you can get removed under section two seventeen, which is
a visa waiver. Where these people came from like the
(08:36):
UK over state of visa. You know, they're not a
title to a hearing. With your expedite removed them, we
send them back. But the ones that have come through
the basically through the border, you know, you you you
give them a notice they're supposed to appear at court.
Many don't report the court and get orders of removal
in absentia. You know, so, but this isn't like a
(08:58):
thing that's quick, Lisa. These things take years. I mean
before I left, I remember the day before I was
going to retire, I was signing off on the case
and I checked it for legal sufficiency. It was October
of twenty eighteen, and this is in New York City.
The guy's first master calend or the first hearing for
that case was scheduled in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Tom Homan, the Borders Are made a promise to Kathy
Hochel that if the human increased sized presence in New
York at the state past legislation barring state and local
law enforcement from working with immigration in New York, jail's
hope will signed the bill into law. And then Homan
has promised to deploy more ICE agents than you've ever
(09:44):
seen in this city.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Walk us through that.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
What do you make of that is just the right call,
you know, talk to us a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
We've tried to go to the table to negotiate. You know,
this is going on for years. It started and build
the BLASI under Obama, you know their term where you know,
give us access to the jails right, like, we want
the criminals. So Rikers Island, upstate, downstate. You know, we
got all these people that are foreign nationals, foreign born
(10:13):
that are in these facilities with violent criminal records, and
we want them. So, you know, if you're not going
to cooperate, you know, we used to have a trailer
on Rikers Island where we weren't taxing you know, any
of the Department of Corrections people to do work for us.
We were doing the work ourselves. So we were triage
and intake. We were finding out who these people were.
(10:33):
We wrote the cases of all we did was drop
a detainer and annually before they stopped cooperation, we were
getting about twenty eight to thirty one hundred criminal aliens
a year just out of rikers At Island. And that
cooperation stopped in twenty fourteen. And so, you know, instead
of these politicians, you know, these governors, these you know,
(10:56):
these elected officials, I don't call them leaders because they're
not leaders that are elected officials. They double down on
this because they think this is what the people really want.
They're not making New York City any safer, that's that's
number one. They're releasing them into this very community they
say they're they're trying to protect. ICE is taking people
off the streets, and there's a direct correlation between ICE's
(11:19):
cooperation and crime being reduced.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, you think you would want dangerous criminals removed from
your city and your state?
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I don't understand how there's
anybody that could say, well, you know, that doesn't make
any sense, and so ICE is forced to. You know, listen,
Congress enacted these laws. We didn't we you know, Section
two thirty six, mandatory detention. You know, they they created
eight CFR. They the Court of Federal Regulations. They're the
(11:53):
ones that enacted these laws. And yet they're the ones
that are running around screaming that these are racists. ICE
is a Nazi organization. ICE is this They're following directives,
plain and simple.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
There's a former deputy Field Office director, like, how do
laws like that? How much more difficult does that make
your job in cities like New York City?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I mean, New York City's a melting pot. Okay, we
get it. There's almost every nationality that that there is
it cohabitates in New York City, right, I mean they're everywhere.
You know, when you go to Washington Heights. What you're
going to encounter, you know, you know what's going to
happen when you go to Bushwick or Brooklyn or Williamsburg.
Like it's a it's a melting pot. Ice isn't out
(12:40):
there indiscriminately just stopping people on the trains, you know.
But but they'll they'll say, well, you know, Ice boarded
the train today, the A train, and they were I
d and everybody that wasn't Ice. It was transit. But
my point to that is is these these elected officials
want to insteal fear in those communities and so that
(13:01):
the big enemy here is Ice, you know what I mean.
So it's an effective campaign and they've been running it
for years, and to be honest with you, Lisa, DHS
is you know, their campaign hasn't been the best. You know,
we don't really vocalize all the good that DHS does
on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Now that's true.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
You know, every once in a while you hear something like,
you know, Ice did this. I mean, I'll give you
an example. Before I retired, my unit in New York
City did an operation. It was a five day operation
and the standard was that you had to go after
anybody that was called a sexual offender, right, sexual criminal offenses. Okay,
(13:45):
we arrested something like one hundred I'm sorry. In five days,
we arrested ninety seven sex offenders. Sixty seven of them were.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Child like molesters.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah, child molesters out of the ninety seven. So we
had to go do something and release it in the press.
They released it. They released it on Sunday in the
New York Post. Like I think it was like the
New York Post, like on page thirty two, next to
an ad for PC Richards, you know what I mean.
It wasn't like it was the headlines. You would think
(14:18):
that if you know people went in your community and
took ninety seven sex offenders off your streets. You know
these are convicted people, right, ninety seven in five days,
you'd want it on the front page. You know, it's
the campaign. It wasn't. Ice didn't broadcast it. Ice didn't
make an ad or a TV ad, or they didn't
do anything with it. You know, the mainstream media isn't
(14:40):
going to print the good because it doesn't fit their narrative.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Click break.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
If you like what you're hearing, please share on social
media or send it to your family and friends. We
learned a little bit, said, I mean, I was pretty
shocked because out of Minneapolis, you know, DHS did put
out some of the people who were you know, captured
or whatever you want to call it, and we had
(15:05):
there were individuals that they found roaming the streets who
had sodomized children.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Know, And it's like, so it's like, it's beyond me
how individuals like Tim Walls would fight the deportation of
people like that make it more difficult for ICE to
scoop them up and then label the individuals who are
getting those you know, terrible human beings off our streets
(15:34):
as the Gestapo, you know, like it's like the priorities
that that states of some of these politicians to me
is just like sickening.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Yep, absolutely, Lisa, listen, you know, with a straight face
that get in front of the camera and say that
we were kidnapping people. These are elected officials like may
or Fry, Like are you serious? Like how are you
saying they're kidnapped? You know, I mean, and they play
into this, like these NGOs that are getting billions of
(16:04):
our taxpayer money, right are the ones funding this all?
Look at Delaney Hall. Great example, Delaney Hall, there's a
hunger strike. Now there's not a hunger strike because the
commis every sales aren't record highs for the last month. Okay.
Organizations like Soma they have one hundred and twenty thousand
(16:24):
dollars that was donated to them. These people sign up
for a subscription right to feed the tainees at Delaney Hall.
So if you're at Delaney Hall, would you want the
regular food that Geo's gonna serve or would you want
yellowfin tuna or chicken terioki and maybe hot cheetos and
honey buns. I'm gonna go with the ladder, you know
(16:47):
what I mean. So, so like this is all manufactured,
it's funded, it's coordinated for specific reasons. You know, when
they go to do these oversights Lisa at like you know,
Andy Kim a Memorial Day, they're knocking on the door,
like you just can't close the facility down because some
senator decided to show up unannounced. You know, they could
(17:10):
be doing head count, they could have been dealing with
a medical emergency. Maybe they were moving people, maybe they
were doing the count. Maybe people were out at wreck.
You know, but these politicians will turn around and say, uh,
you know, ICE is denying the entry, like we're hiding something.
You know, it's an Ice has got nothing to hide.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
You know, before we go, what do you think is missing? Sometimes?
You know, obviously there's been a lot of conversations about
Ice about immigration, particularly since President Trump won reelection. Is
there anything that you feel like gets missed in the
conversations that's important to point out before we go.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Yeah, the men and women that are the men and
women are eer and the people who assist them are
out there for the best interest of all Americans.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
They are trying to keep our community safe. We don't
know who half of these people are, Okay, Like, you know,
rather than the politicians, I'll give you a great example.
You look at the unaccompanied children that we're missing. Look
at like like four hundred thousand of them went to
people they weren't even vetted. Who who does that? Who
releases children to people who aren't unvetted? We know nothing
(18:21):
about these people when they come across the border unvetted,
and yet we want people. There's people in this country
like Joe Biden and Kamala Harrison, the rest of the
governors that doubled down on it and said, come to
my come to my community. These are military age, fighting men,
and we don't know what they've done in their countries,
(18:42):
and yet you're releasing them into our own, our own communities.
So Ero's job is basically to enforce the laws and
keep our community safer. We do what we call precision policing.
You know, we have a file, we follow that file
to its end, and we make sure when that case
just finalized that whatever was adjudicated is you know, affected,
(19:07):
meaning if there's an order of removal, we're the ones
that want to make sure that person gets on the
plane it goes back to their country.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, and your point about with the I mean, we
saw record numbers of people trying to enter and entering
into the country under the Biden administration, and we also
know that there was a record number of people trying
to get in who were on the terror watch list.
We know that there were Iranian nationals that entered the country,
(19:34):
Chinese nationals, you know, Russian or enemies right that are
entering into the country. You know, So you would think
even with that, there would be interest on both sides
of the aisle to expel some of these people coming
in from you know, enemy nations that might wish us harm.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
I mean, yeah, if you look at all the people
who are really protesting, Okay, it's not the families of
the people's detained, right, you know, it's not. It's young.
It's young Caucasian radicals, right, who hate the government, who
despise Trump, despise everything that the guy stands for, and
(20:11):
so they want to push back and push back. They
believe in open borders, So they don't even know what
they're really there for, you know what I mean. So,
and they're being paid. I mean, these people are being
paid to be there, Lisa, That's what nobody's talking about.
That's not a protest. That's a coordinated rally, you know
what I mean. It's funded.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, it's it's sad.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Come on de Lanium home and check it out. You
won't believe it. These people, there's people. It's funny. Van Drew,
Congressman Van Drew goes there with other you know, congress
people from the state of New Jersey. They took a tour, right.
Van Drew comes out, looks to everybody in the face
and the camera and it says, you know what I
(20:55):
saw on there wasn't bad. I mean, I just don't
know why these people are so hung up. Right, come
after a GEO facility and they say, well, it's it's
a it's a it's a profit right, it's a what
do they call it. What's the word that they're using.
It's a you know, corporate for profit. Well, listen, the
state could have actually addressed that. We used to Lisa
(21:16):
in years and before they started this, we were using
all of the county jails in New Jersey. You have
twenty one county jails. So if we were like you know,
im Mercer or Momuth or Middlesex or Hudson Bergen, Sussex,
we would we would lodge our detainees there and we
would pay the state one hundred and twenty seven, one
hundred and twenty eight dollars a night for them to
(21:38):
hold this person. Some of these some of these counties
were making millions of dollars detaining ice tainees. And then
they said nope, nope, no more, that's it, end of it, okay,
So then we had nowhere to hold them. That's why
we're flying them the Louisiana.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
You know, before we go, one thing I wanted to
ask you about is we saw after Ferguson and you know,
sort of the lies about police officers, that cops were
afraid to do their jobs. We even saw former Mayor
ron Manuel Well still in office in Chicago, had said
(22:14):
that cops were in the fetal position as a result.
You know, they were afraid. They're scared to do the drugs.
They didn't want to get Yes, is I in the
same position now in terms of, you know, scared that
even carrying out their duties could land them and you know,
getting docs or could land them in trouble.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
He said, that has always been something in the back
of our minds, right because they're going out there doing
their job, okay, like they're just they're not sitting there
worried about there were more worried about these people using
over now you know, people feeling like they have the
right to assault them and they're going to get away
(22:54):
with it. There There is no there's no respect for
law enforcement anymore in this country, right, and it's because
we've decriminalized almost everything in this country, so you know,
and and the system is tilted. You know, they don't
respect law enforcement ever since Ferguson, which was which was
a lie, right, I mean, it turned out to be
(23:15):
all a big you know, it was a lie. The
cop didn't shoot Michael in the back. You know he
you know. It perpetuates hates and that's what the that's
what that one side of the aisle loves to do
is use law enforcement and people who are enforcing the
law against its own people because they want the system
broken down. Look at New York City. You think the
(23:36):
cops in New York City want to respond to anything. No,
they don't, because if they do one thing wrong, they're
gonna they're gonna go to the CCR beat, they're gonna
get suspended, they're gonna they might go even go to
jail for doing their jobs. You know, So Ice, Ice,
I mean, I don't know if you live in New
(23:57):
York City, but you know, listen, you know, like people
used to say, you know, I don't like the broken
windows policies. Well guess what crime wasn't rampant when there
was the broken windows policy? You know what I mean,
people were going to New York and unprecedented numbers. And
now it's kind of like nobody wants to go to
New York.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I mean, yeah, Scott mkowsky.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
You appreciate you coming on the show and thank you
for your service to the country. So I know I
appreciate it, and I know my listeners appreciate it as well.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Lisa, thank you for having me, and you know, thank
you for being reasonable. You know this is a great interview.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
That was Scott mccowsky. You appreciate him for coming on
the show. Appreciate you guys at home for listening every
Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen throughout the week.
Also want to thank John Cassio for putting the show together.
Until next time.
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Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
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