Former Levi's executive, XX-XY Athletics founder, and women's sports advocate Jennifer Sey joins The Truth with Lisa Boothe for a wide-ranging conversation on the cultural battles shaping America.
Jennifer weighs in on the growing controversy surrounding transgender athletes in women's sports, explains why she believes the tide is finally turning, and discusses why WNBA star Sophie Cunningham has become a lightning rod for standing up for female athletes. She also breaks down the growing backlash against gender ideology in sports and why she believes more Americans are speaking out.
The conversation then shifts to COVID-19, where Jennifer reflects on the personal and professional price she paid for opposing school closures and lockdowns. She reacts to the latest revelations surrounding Dr. Anthony Fauci, explains why many Americans still haven't received accountability for the pandemic response, and discusses what lessons—if any—the country has learned.
Follow Clay & Buck on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/clayandbuck
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we get
to the heart of the issues that matter to you. Good.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Two big stories going on in the media right now.
One the WNBA seemingly not understanding why there's its W
in the name. Obviously, we've seen Sophie Cunningham take a
lot of backlash for saying what just makes sense, what's
common sense that men shouldn't play, and women's sports just
taking a lot of heat for that.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Also, where's the WNB on it. They're not standing up for.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Her Instead, she's faced ridicule and we've seen a lot
of contention at some of these games as well, So
we'll talk to someone about that.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Also, we've seen the story about COVID in the news,
with Anthony.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Fauci's diaries coming to light the fact that well we
already knew, but now confirmed that what he was saying
publicly is not what he believed privately. So we're gonna
talk about these two key issues with someone who has
lived through both of them and are meaningful way.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Jennifer Say.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
She's the founder and CEO of XXXY Athletics. She was
also a seven time member of the US Women's National
Artistic gymnastics team and the nineteen eighty six US women's
all around national champion, So she knows a thing or
two about what it means to be competitive in sports.
So we're gonna talk about that. But also she had
spent twenty three years at le By Strauss, rising from
(01:26):
the entry level marketing job to an executive there. But
she had to publicly resign in twenty twenty two after
criticizing some of the COVID nonsense things like school closure.
She faced so much retribution, so much backlash overtaking a
public stance. So, as I mentioned, she's had a front
row seat to two of these very important issues, and
we're going to get our take on all of it.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Stay tuned for Jennifer Say. Well, Jennifer, it's great to
have you back on the show.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
You've been busy, pasikly we are. What do you find
like just hilarious about all this with the WNBA. It's
like it's like for years they have been, you know,
like wanting to be treated like the men, and then
now they want men to come in and.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Destroy the sport. Like it's like I saw a I
think it.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Was the Babylon b and it was like uh, you
know the w NBA trying to figure out what the
W is for, right, it's what's the point of women's
basketball without the women?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah, without the first word, the first part. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
I mean, this ideology is so incoherent. It's like there's
a video circulating right now. I think with show reads
the coach of Gosh, which team is she the coach of? Yeah,
she's the one that was wearing the Trance Kids Belonging
shirt at the game this past weekend that I attended.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
And there's this video of her. Gosh, I hope it's her.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
I'm mixing them all up at this point, talking about
how it's so awful when men come in to coach
the NBA teams and take opportunities from women.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
It's like, dude, you're so close. Do you just not
see it? The entire thing is just so illogical and
it makes no sense.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I mean, this.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Line they're all delivering now clearly word went out on
the backbone that the line that the coaches are to
deliver now when asked is that sports are about inclusivity,
which is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Competitive sports
are not about inclusivity. They are literally premised upon exclusivity.
Less than one percent of female college basketball players make
the WNBA.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
That is not about inclusivity.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
It's about competition and striving and discipline and perseverance, and yes, winning,
inclusivity has nothing to do with it. There are clear
boundaries in sport all over the place. There's age boundaries
and yes, sex boundaries, and there's weight classes. And it's
so absurd that they're all reciting this line like it's
a thing that you know, inclusivity is always the answer.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Exclusivity is never the answer.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
I don't know. The whole thing is so dumb, and
they just deliver whatever line is given to them, even
if it makes no sense.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
So you know, there are one of them more athletes themselves, right,
and so like they have to know what you just
played out, So is it virtue signaling or that's why
you can't understand?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
But yeah, it's nonsensical. So it's like what is behind it?
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Is?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Is it?
Speaker 4 (04:25):
You know?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
What's driving it?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Well, I don't like to try to understand people that
think ridiculous things, and I wouldn't kind of presuppose that I.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Could, but I would just say.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
It's probably not one thing and for everyone, it's probably different.
I think for some they've really embraced it and they
believe in this ideology. I would say Megan Rappino is
probably in that camp.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
I don't think she's very bright. That said, I think
she really believes the stuff she's saying. I will say this,
I think for a lot of people who are in
the LGBE community, so a lot of these women are gay,
I think it's very hard. That's your community. It's hard
to sort of go against the letters like Martina has,
(05:10):
Martina Naverchelova has, and I think that's part of the
That's one of the hardest things is you get dumped
on by what you consider to be your community. So
I think that makes it really hard. And because of
the connection to that community, they just say whatever line
is given to them. I mean, Lisa rest assured in
those press conferences when the coaches say this dumb stuff
(05:33):
that's been written by PR professionals quote unquote professionals, that's
been you know, practiced and tested in their own way,
like they're not just throwing that out there. And the
last thing I would say is, if you're a Democrat,
the most important thing, the most important tie you have
is to the Democrat Party. It's like their religion, and
(05:53):
they will choose that over logic. They will degrade and
debase themselves and humiliate themselves to signal strongly that they
are hard carrying Democrats. As a former Democrat.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, and I saw a photo because Sophie Cunningham. I
believe this came up in an interview and then but
she stood strong because sometimes what we see is an
athlete or a public figure, they speak the truth, they
face the ridicule, and then they backed down.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Instead, she's doubled down on it.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I know that you saw her recently at one of
the games, Like how is she doing?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
You know, I mean, I guess, I know you.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Don't want to divulge private conversations that you've had with
her or whatever, but like, how you know how she doing?
Why do you think she decided to double down on
this stance and not back down.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
I think, first of all, she gave that interview many
months ago that was just published in ESPN, and it
was it was a very small part of a much
larger article, and I think she just said the thing
she knows is true. I don't think she thought this
was her kind of coming out party into sames of
women's sports. You know, I'll say she's been liking posts
from XXXY Athletic and sharing posts from the brand commenting
(07:03):
for almost two years now, so I kind of knew
where she stood, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
But I think so.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
I think she did that throwaway comment and then the
attacks came and she stood.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Strong, and I think she's fine.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
I think it's you know, this is what I can
glean from a brief conversation. She's committed, she's not going
to back down. She's strong, her spine is, you know, stiff,
and she's ready to take what comes. She's not going
to back it down. The culture's changed. Too many people
are with her. I'll tell you this being on the
ground in the stadium, in the game. The other side,
(07:41):
they're trying to pretend we don't exist and we aren't
the majority. Their old tactics aren't working anymore. You know,
in the broadcast, all they did was cut to people
in the audience wearing you know, trans T shirts, et cetera.
There were tons of us in XXXY T shirts. When
Riley and I were walking through the stadium, we were
getting high fives, and people wanted their photo with Riley
(08:02):
and sometimes even me. They knew about the brand, so
they're trying to present an image. ESPN was that's not
reflecting reality and they're they're losing. People aren't going to
be quiet anymore.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
It was interesting because we talked about this on out
Numbered recently and I was like looking up some of
the statistics because if they want men to be playing,
and well, first of all, we've already seen Sophie or not,
Sophie Cunningham, Kaitlin Clark gets thrown around like a rag
doll against women.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And then you introduce six six six seven.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Players, which is like the average height of the the NBA,
and then you add in I was looking only nine
WNBA players have ever dunked in the history of the league,
and I.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Looked that up too. Yeah, you go to the NBA,
almost every player can dunk.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Like if you had men, if you had some of
those NBA athletates playing against it, it would be they
would one get killed, like actually physically, and then secondly
they would get it would be a non starter get crushed.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So it's like it's.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Insane to me, and even the concept of having you know,
some of these men play in the league.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It's insane.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
I mean, the very worst player in the NBA that
gets no game time would be the star of the WNBA.
I think that's obvious. The baskets the same height, the
ball is smaller, it goes in easier.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
I mean, they would slay. But that's why they say these.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Dumb things like trans women are women because in their minds,
that convinces them these aren't men playing in the NBA,
in the WNBA, they're actually women. But if you press
them on it's like it not if it makes sense.
That's why I don't want to be inside their brains,
because you press them on it, and it's like they
actually believe that if you wave a magic wand and say,
(09:49):
you know, presso facto change, oh I'm a woman, you
just become one. They believe that you can have the
soul of a woman and that makes you a woman
and therefore makes you or that there's just different kind
of kinds of women and some are stronger. It doesn't
make sense. Don't try to understand them. But I will
(10:10):
tell you that fever is breaking. And I don't mean
that as a pun In regards to the Indiana fever.
But this Feaver dream we've been in, it's cracking, and
the same people are not afraid to stand up anymore.
We don't care about the names that they call us.
People showed up at the rally. We held a rally
outside of the Minnesota game to show support for Sophie.
(10:33):
We came with balloons and you could get pictures with
a life size cutout.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
We gave out T shirts from the brand. We were
having fun. It was joyous.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
We were screamed at and called the worst names you
can imagine by a very tiny group of crazy activists.
No people were walking past. They joined our side. No
one's afraid anymore. So the eighty ninety percent that knows
women's sports are for women and that women deserve that safety, dignity, privacy,
all of that. They've been quiet, but they're not going
to be quiet anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Do you see Clay Travis's offer?
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Ten million dollars for the NBA champion Las Vegas Aces
to play high school boys basketball.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
What do you make of the offer?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
I mean, it's a good offer. He wants us to
know he's got that. Like it's pocket change, right, it's
he's right.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
I mean, obviously the resent position is that the boys
high school team would win.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
He ate wrong, you know.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
A few months ago, on her own podcast, Sophie Cunningham
said she thought a group of middle school basketball players,
boys good ones like future NBA players, would beat a
w NBA team. That was her claim. She's not wrong.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I just I love Clay's ability to stir the pot
while also making like an exploiting value. Yeah, like actually
making a very substitute valid point while simultaneously stirring everyone up.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
That's my my favorite things about them.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, it's so good.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
I love his offer to start a franchise in Nashville
of all males on the women's team, called the Nashville Balls.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah, just see that. So good.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, he's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
And then before we switch to COVID, like, where do
you think this goes How long do you think this
goes on for?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
I don't want to predict the future, but I think
this is the beginning of the end of this nonsense,
but just the beginning.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Of the end. We have a lot of work to do.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
This whole ideology, and I don't mean just sports, but
this whole ideology.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
First of all, it's bigger than sports. Sports is the
tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
But we've got, you know, men in the housing women's prisons.
Our language is still co opted. This stuff is being
taught in schools. Twenty three states let boys compete in
girls sports. Men are allowed in battered women's shelters. Like
it goes on and on and on. This slow march
through our language and our culture has been going on
for probably fifteen years. We're not going to end it
(13:00):
in one basketball season.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Quick break.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
If you like what you're hearing, please here on social
media or send it to your family and friends. I
wanted to shift gears on some of this COVID stuff
that is surfing surfacing. And we already we already knew
that doctor Anthony Fauci was a liar, but now we
know definitively based off of his diary entries were essentially
(13:25):
everything he told us publicly he knew to be a
lie privately. You know, you fansd a professional price for
dissenting during that period of time with Levi's how did
this all kind of like make you feel when you
saw it? I mean, I'm sure there is an element
of indication. I know, I felt that way, but that
was a rough period of time. Yeah, it's been it's
(13:46):
been hard. Honestly, I'm super glad to be distracted by
the w NBA right now. You know my brand xxx Y.
We're planning rallies. We want Sophie to feel supported at
every turn because she's getting no support from her teammates
and the WNBA and it must feel very lonely. And
a lot of us know what it is to stand
alone and how hard that.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Is, whether it's this issue or whether it's COVID. So
we want her to know she's got support. And it's
nice for me to be distracted by that, because if
I read any excerpts from the diary, I tell you
I just cry because I lost so much a career
I spent over thirty years building. I mean I couldn't.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
I couldn't.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
Not a single recruiter would take my call. I mean,
I won every award you can possibly win as a
Corporate America leader, and I became first sona non grata.
The one interview I did get in sometime June of
twenty three, I was grilled by the HR person about
whether or not I would apologize for what I'd done,
and what I'd done, Lisa was say public schools should open.
(14:49):
Kids are being armed. So I've lost most of my friends.
I think I've got like one that still talks to
me from the last thirty years. A family member still
doesn't speak to me. And the reason hard is to
read it and to go We saw that from the beginning,
We told you so, we knew he was lying. We
knew he was a weasel who just loved the spotlight.
(15:11):
But to also know that once you get canceled, you
don't really.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Get your reputation back.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Even if you build a new life and you're very happy,
which I am, you don't get it back. No one
comes back and apologizes. No one comes back. My friends
aren't reaching out saying, oh, I read the Fauci diaries,
I'm really sorry, you were right and we were wrong. No,
those relationships are gone forever, and it just makes it
so I have to revisit those betrayals, and that's why
(15:42):
I feel so sad, you know. But yes, there is
some vindication, and for that to be happening at the
same time as the sports stuff, like two issues that
I've just been you know, stalked and harassed and threatened
with violence and lost so much over to them both
kind of hummed to fruition and feel vindigated at the
(16:04):
same time. Is really meaningful, but there's still just a
tinge of sadness because, like I said, I'm sure you
see this. For the Democrats, they just think everyone's being
really mean to Fauci right now. They don't think, oh,
those other people were right. They think the world is
being mean to Fauci.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
And I think that's.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
What frustrates me the most about this, because, as you
pointed out, you paid a professional price for telling the
truth and standing up for what was right. So many
people did a lot of even just these epidemiologists and
scientists pob doctor like Johnny and EDI's or Scott atlests
okay about a target, they were intact their families were
threatened in some cases, like and these these weren't like
(16:44):
quacks posting on Reddit it from their mom's baseline, like
these were like world renown.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
A scientists who were warning us.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
And so many people like you or them, or you know,
so many of us who tried telling the truth. You know,
we faced some sort of price to pay, whether it's
friendship's work, you know, and then he's all sitting pretty
like Fauci, Like that's reading. There was a report last
year that his net worth surged to about fifteen million
dollars by the end of twenty twenty three. So between
(17:16):
the January twenty nineteen before COVID hit and then surged
from seven point sixty million, so he to fifteen.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So he's sitting pretty. You know, he got all the
celebrity during COVID. He's pardoned. He was on a lot
with his wife the other day. He pled the fifth
one hundred and eleven, you know, like he's fine.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, And as you pointed out, like people who had
family businesses, it'd be closed, you know, everything that they're
like generations of hard work.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Yes, small twenty five million people were laid off in
twenty twenty. I'm sure that was a really tough time
for those people. Small businesses went under. People said to
buy the loved ones over an iPad. I know family
who have children that killed themselves. I know another family
who lost a child to a drug overdose, a fifteen
(18:06):
year old girl.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
They don't get that back.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
You know.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
I can warn my own losses they're nothing compared to
what these other I mean it's everyone's loss that brings
me to tears. It's not just myself, though everybody calls
me a liar and a grifter and a self centered
piece of garbage.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I cry for.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
All the loss. It's awful.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Those people they don't get their children back, and he
just gets to have everything. And not one mind has
been changed on the very pro lockdown provas you know,
Covidian kind of, but their minds aren't changed from this.
I mean my phone and his hope, because I don't
think he actually cares that much about money. I don't
think that's his driving force. I think it's all the
(18:46):
sort of reputational.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Stuff that he cares about.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
He obviously loved feeling like a big shot and talking
to Julia Roberts and Barbara Streisan and like that's what
floats his boat.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
I just hope, broadly that his reputation is in tech
matters enough that he knows it, because that's what hurts him,
and I want I want that for him.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
No, I know, I wrote this down for it.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
So yeah, we had a thirty percent jump and overdose
deaths during COVID scoring. The suicide attempts nearly two hundred
thousand permanent business closures, the steepest decline in student test
course in modern American education. As a result, unemployment at
one point was fourteen point seven percent and inflation hit
is forty or high at one point. So it's like
the amount of death and destruction that this man caused.
(19:30):
Do you think have we learned any lessons? I mean,
you would mention that obviously liberals are still what you
used to be a democrat, but I was, yeah, you know,
but it's like you mentioned that there's still people who
are like doubling down. They view him as a sympathetic figure,
you know, they think he's being attacked. But like, do
you how do you think we would react as a
society in the next pandemic? Like, how many of us
(19:53):
do you think have learned lessons from this?
Speaker 4 (19:57):
That's a good that's a good question. Well, I think
that we've sort of tried it. Remember with Ponta virus,
the red thing they were trying there, there were other
little ones. No one's really buying it anymore. I mean,
here was the problem to my mind with this, because lockdowns,
from my perspective, were the original sin. Once we allowed
that to happen, we were kind of screwed. I don't
(20:18):
think people will stand for and in the beginning, it
was such a small percentage that were against lockdowns. Even
Republicans were like, yeah, it's okay, two weeks, six weeks.
They got sick of it after maybe six weeks, but
at almost everyone was on board from the beginning.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I don't think that would be the case anymore.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
I think anyone, a libertarian, a right leaning person, I
think more people would resist a lockdown. I think we
could get to I mean, you're gonna say, this doesn't
sound like a big number. I think we could get
thirty or forty percent of the population to resist, versus
what we had, which was under ten.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I guess I didn't.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I guess maybe I should have known because it's human nature,
but I guess I didn't realize just the ability to
critically think, and then also the desire to be accepted
in society, Yeah, was so prevalent.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Yeah, I think that's right. And if you can if
you can get that acceptance and feel virtuous at the
same time for doing nothing, I mean not so you know,
it's hard to resist for people, and you also have
to remember people who are scared.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I mean, I think you.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Show your true colors how you behave when you're afraid.
But that fear was instilled. And the essential kind of
deal that the government offered was if you give us O,
if you give us your freedom, we'll keep you safe.
But they couldn't do that without terrifying the population, right,
I mean, there was a constantactic or on TV every day.
(21:49):
Remember what that was like? You had like red, yell
and green. You woke up every morning we were waiting
for orange so we could go outside in San Francisco.
And people were terrified, and people behave very, very poorly
when they're scared.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
It's hard to resist.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
You know.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I don't know what it says about me that I
don't care about being virtuous.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Or accepted, but well, I don't care about seeming virtuous.
I care about I don't care about hearing that way
because I feel like I have been.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Virtuous in the last in the last well twenty years.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
You know.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
I don't do it for snaps or collaps. I do
it because I think it's.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Right there you go, and then and before we go,
where can people go to support XXXY?
Speaker 1 (22:35):
And also Sophie Cunningham right now, with all this nonsense
going on.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Okay, well, support the.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
Brand at xx dash xy athletics dot com. We're the
only brand taking us down for safe sports for women,
fair competition. We are leading the charge in making sure
that she has supporters at every game for the rest
of this regular season. But we're planning right now, rallies in.
(23:02):
Where are we going next? In Chicago, in Indianapolis, and
we're hoping in New York. We're working on that. I
we don't want to go to New York real quick.
Didn't interrupt you, but yeah, keep going because I'm here. Yep, Okay, great,
I will let you know for sure. We just wanted
to know she's supported and she's not alone. It's not
just for Sophie. It's for all the girls who stood up.
It's for Honanie Wilson who got spit on in the
(23:23):
Seattle game. She's a sixteen year old girl, the one
who's screamed at by the co owner of the Storm.
We just want all those girls to know they're supportive,
and like I said, we come and love. We bring balloons,
we bring T shirts. We're having fun. They're yelling at us,
but we're there to just celebrate this outspokenness and the
momentum that we have, so we're gonna keep going. You
can follow with me if you want to kind of
(23:45):
know about what's going on on that brend. It's just
my name on Twitter. That's where I'm most active, Jennifer Say.
And if you buy something from the brand, it helps
us do more rallies. Honestly, I mean it helps us
keep this going. And we're not an advocacy brand. We're
an actual clothing brand. We're like Nike or Lula. We
make outstanding athletic apparel. Don't buy from brands that don't
support women. Don't do it.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
You don't have to sacrifice. We have the best quality.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
I fir said, you're a badass. We appreciate you and
what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Keep it up.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Thanks for having me, Lisa.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
That was Jennifer Say, the founder and CEO of xx
x Y Athletics.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
We appreciate her for making the time.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday
and Thursday.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
You can listen throughout the week.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Also want to think John Cassio and my producer for
putting the show together.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Until next time,
Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we get
to the heart of the issues that matter to you. Good.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Two big stories going on in the media right now.
One the WNBA seemingly not understanding why there's its W
in the name. Obviously, we've seen Sophie Cunningham take a
lot of backlash for saying what just makes sense, what's
common sense that men shouldn't play, and women's sports just
taking a lot of heat for that.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Also, where's the WNB on it. They're not standing up for.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Her Instead, she's faced ridicule and we've seen a lot
of contention at some of these games as well, So
we'll talk to someone about that.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Also, we've seen the story about COVID in the news,
with Anthony.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Fauci's diaries coming to light the fact that well we
already knew, but now confirmed that what he was saying
publicly is not what he believed privately. So we're gonna
talk about these two key issues with someone who has
lived through both of them and are meaningful way.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Jennifer Say.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
She's the founder and CEO of XXXY Athletics. She was
also a seven time member of the US Women's National
Artistic gymnastics team and the nineteen eighty six US women's
all around national champion, So she knows a thing or
two about what it means to be competitive in sports.
So we're gonna talk about that. But also she had
spent twenty three years at le By Strauss, rising from
(01:26):
the entry level marketing job to an executive there. But
she had to publicly resign in twenty twenty two after
criticizing some of the COVID nonsense things like school closure.
She faced so much retribution, so much backlash overtaking a
public stance. So, as I mentioned, she's had a front
row seat to two of these very important issues, and
we're going to get our take on all of it.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Stay tuned for Jennifer Say. Well, Jennifer, it's great to
have you back on the show.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
You've been busy, pasikly we are. What do you find
like just hilarious about all this with the WNBA. It's
like it's like for years they have been, you know,
like wanting to be treated like the men, and then
now they want men to come in and.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Destroy the sport. Like it's like I saw a I
think it.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Was the Babylon b and it was like uh, you
know the w NBA trying to figure out what the
W is for, right, it's what's the point of women's
basketball without the women?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah, without the first word, the first part. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
I mean, this ideology is so incoherent. It's like there's
a video circulating right now. I think with show reads
the coach of Gosh, which team is she the coach of? Yeah,
she's the one that was wearing the Trance Kids Belonging
shirt at the game this past weekend that I attended.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
And there's this video of her. Gosh, I hope it's her.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
I'm mixing them all up at this point, talking about
how it's so awful when men come in to coach
the NBA teams and take opportunities from women.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
It's like, dude, you're so close. Do you just not
see it? The entire thing is just so illogical and
it makes no sense.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I mean, this.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Line they're all delivering now clearly word went out on
the backbone that the line that the coaches are to
deliver now when asked is that sports are about inclusivity,
which is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Competitive sports
are not about inclusivity. They are literally premised upon exclusivity.
Less than one percent of female college basketball players make
the WNBA.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
That is not about inclusivity.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
It's about competition and striving and discipline and perseverance, and yes, winning,
inclusivity has nothing to do with it. There are clear
boundaries in sport all over the place. There's age boundaries
and yes, sex boundaries, and there's weight classes. And it's
so absurd that they're all reciting this line like it's
a thing that you know, inclusivity is always the answer.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Exclusivity is never the answer.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
I don't know. The whole thing is so dumb, and
they just deliver whatever line is given to them, even
if it makes no sense.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
So you know, there are one of them more athletes themselves, right,
and so like they have to know what you just
played out, So is it virtue signaling or that's why
you can't understand?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
But yeah, it's nonsensical. So it's like what is behind it?
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Is?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Is it?
Speaker 4 (04:25):
You know?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
What's driving it?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Well, I don't like to try to understand people that
think ridiculous things, and I wouldn't kind of presuppose that I.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Could, but I would just say.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
It's probably not one thing and for everyone, it's probably different.
I think for some they've really embraced it and they
believe in this ideology. I would say Megan Rappino is
probably in that camp.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
I don't think she's very bright. That said, I think
she really believes the stuff she's saying. I will say this,
I think for a lot of people who are in
the LGBE community, so a lot of these women are gay,
I think it's very hard. That's your community. It's hard
to sort of go against the letters like Martina has,
(05:10):
Martina Naverchelova has, and I think that's part of the
That's one of the hardest things is you get dumped
on by what you consider to be your community. So
I think that makes it really hard. And because of
the connection to that community, they just say whatever line
is given to them. I mean, Lisa rest assured in
those press conferences when the coaches say this dumb stuff
(05:33):
that's been written by PR professionals quote unquote professionals, that's
been you know, practiced and tested in their own way,
like they're not just throwing that out there. And the
last thing I would say is, if you're a Democrat,
the most important thing, the most important tie you have
is to the Democrat Party. It's like their religion, and
(05:53):
they will choose that over logic. They will degrade and
debase themselves and humiliate themselves to signal strongly that they
are hard carrying Democrats. As a former Democrat.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, and I saw a photo because Sophie Cunningham. I
believe this came up in an interview and then but
she stood strong because sometimes what we see is an
athlete or a public figure, they speak the truth, they
face the ridicule, and then they backed down.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Instead, she's doubled down on it.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I know that you saw her recently at one of
the games, Like how is she doing?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
You know, I mean, I guess, I know you.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Don't want to divulge private conversations that you've had with
her or whatever, but like, how you know how she doing?
Why do you think she decided to double down on
this stance and not back down.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
I think, first of all, she gave that interview many
months ago that was just published in ESPN, and it
was it was a very small part of a much
larger article, and I think she just said the thing
she knows is true. I don't think she thought this
was her kind of coming out party into sames of
women's sports. You know, I'll say she's been liking posts
from XXXY Athletic and sharing posts from the brand commenting
(07:03):
for almost two years now, so I kind of knew
where she stood, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
But I think so.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
I think she did that throwaway comment and then the
attacks came and she stood.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Strong, and I think she's fine.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
I think it's you know, this is what I can
glean from a brief conversation. She's committed, she's not going
to back down. She's strong, her spine is, you know, stiff,
and she's ready to take what comes. She's not going
to back it down. The culture's changed. Too many people
are with her. I'll tell you this being on the
ground in the stadium, in the game. The other side,
(07:41):
they're trying to pretend we don't exist and we aren't
the majority. Their old tactics aren't working anymore. You know,
in the broadcast, all they did was cut to people
in the audience wearing you know, trans T shirts, et cetera.
There were tons of us in XXXY T shirts. When
Riley and I were walking through the stadium, we were
getting high fives, and people wanted their photo with Riley
(08:02):
and sometimes even me. They knew about the brand, so
they're trying to present an image. ESPN was that's not
reflecting reality and they're they're losing. People aren't going to
be quiet anymore.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
It was interesting because we talked about this on out
Numbered recently and I was like looking up some of
the statistics because if they want men to be playing,
and well, first of all, we've already seen Sophie or not,
Sophie Cunningham, Kaitlin Clark gets thrown around like a rag
doll against women.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And then you introduce six six six seven.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Players, which is like the average height of the the NBA,
and then you add in I was looking only nine
WNBA players have ever dunked in the history of the league,
and I.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Looked that up too. Yeah, you go to the NBA,
almost every player can dunk.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Like if you had men, if you had some of
those NBA athletates playing against it, it would be they
would one get killed, like actually physically, and then secondly
they would get it would be a non starter get crushed.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So it's like it's.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Insane to me, and even the concept of having you know,
some of these men play in the league.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
It's insane.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
I mean, the very worst player in the NBA that
gets no game time would be the star of the WNBA.
I think that's obvious. The baskets the same height, the
ball is smaller, it goes in easier.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
I mean, they would slay. But that's why they say these.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Dumb things like trans women are women because in their minds,
that convinces them these aren't men playing in the NBA,
in the WNBA, they're actually women. But if you press
them on it's like it not if it makes sense.
That's why I don't want to be inside their brains,
because you press them on it, and it's like they
actually believe that if you wave a magic wand and say,
(09:49):
you know, presso facto change, oh I'm a woman, you
just become one. They believe that you can have the
soul of a woman and that makes you a woman
and therefore makes you or that there's just different kind
of kinds of women and some are stronger. It doesn't
make sense. Don't try to understand them. But I will
(10:10):
tell you that fever is breaking. And I don't mean
that as a pun In regards to the Indiana fever.
But this Feaver dream we've been in, it's cracking, and
the same people are not afraid to stand up anymore.
We don't care about the names that they call us.
People showed up at the rally. We held a rally
outside of the Minnesota game to show support for Sophie.
(10:33):
We came with balloons and you could get pictures with
a life size cutout.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
We gave out T shirts from the brand. We were
having fun. It was joyous.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
We were screamed at and called the worst names you
can imagine by a very tiny group of crazy activists.
No people were walking past. They joined our side. No
one's afraid anymore. So the eighty ninety percent that knows
women's sports are for women and that women deserve that safety, dignity, privacy,
all of that. They've been quiet, but they're not going
to be quiet anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Do you see Clay Travis's offer?
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Ten million dollars for the NBA champion Las Vegas Aces
to play high school boys basketball.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
What do you make of the offer?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
I mean, it's a good offer. He wants us to
know he's got that. Like it's pocket change, right, it's
he's right.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
I mean, obviously the resent position is that the boys
high school team would win.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
He ate wrong, you know.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
A few months ago, on her own podcast, Sophie Cunningham
said she thought a group of middle school basketball players,
boys good ones like future NBA players, would beat a
w NBA team. That was her claim. She's not wrong.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I just I love Clay's ability to stir the pot
while also making like an exploiting value. Yeah, like actually
making a very substitute valid point while simultaneously stirring everyone up.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
That's my my favorite things about them.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, it's so good.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
I love his offer to start a franchise in Nashville
of all males on the women's team, called the Nashville Balls.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Yeah, just see that. So good.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, he's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
And then before we switch to COVID, like, where do
you think this goes How long do you think this
goes on for?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
I don't want to predict the future, but I think
this is the beginning of the end of this nonsense,
but just the beginning.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Of the end. We have a lot of work to do.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
This whole ideology, and I don't mean just sports, but
this whole ideology.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
First of all, it's bigger than sports. Sports is the
tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
But we've got, you know, men in the housing women's prisons.
Our language is still co opted. This stuff is being
taught in schools. Twenty three states let boys compete in
girls sports. Men are allowed in battered women's shelters. Like
it goes on and on and on. This slow march
through our language and our culture has been going on
for probably fifteen years. We're not going to end it
(13:00):
in one basketball season.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Quick break.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
If you like what you're hearing, please here on social
media or send it to your family and friends. I
wanted to shift gears on some of this COVID stuff
that is surfing surfacing. And we already we already knew
that doctor Anthony Fauci was a liar, but now we
know definitively based off of his diary entries were essentially
(13:25):
everything he told us publicly he knew to be a
lie privately. You know, you fansd a professional price for
dissenting during that period of time with Levi's how did
this all kind of like make you feel when you
saw it? I mean, I'm sure there is an element
of indication. I know, I felt that way, but that
was a rough period of time. Yeah, it's been it's
(13:46):
been hard. Honestly, I'm super glad to be distracted by
the w NBA right now. You know my brand xxx Y.
We're planning rallies. We want Sophie to feel supported at
every turn because she's getting no support from her teammates
and the WNBA and it must feel very lonely. And
a lot of us know what it is to stand
alone and how hard that.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Is, whether it's this issue or whether it's COVID. So
we want her to know she's got support. And it's
nice for me to be distracted by that, because if
I read any excerpts from the diary, I tell you
I just cry because I lost so much a career
I spent over thirty years building. I mean I couldn't.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
I couldn't.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
Not a single recruiter would take my call. I mean,
I won every award you can possibly win as a
Corporate America leader, and I became first sona non grata.
The one interview I did get in sometime June of
twenty three, I was grilled by the HR person about
whether or not I would apologize for what I'd done,
and what I'd done, Lisa was say public schools should open.
(14:49):
Kids are being armed. So I've lost most of my friends.
I think I've got like one that still talks to
me from the last thirty years. A family member still
doesn't speak to me. And the reason hard is to
read it and to go We saw that from the beginning,
We told you so, we knew he was lying. We
knew he was a weasel who just loved the spotlight.
(15:11):
But to also know that once you get canceled, you
don't really.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Get your reputation back.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Even if you build a new life and you're very happy,
which I am, you don't get it back. No one
comes back and apologizes. No one comes back. My friends
aren't reaching out saying, oh, I read the Fauci diaries,
I'm really sorry, you were right and we were wrong. No,
those relationships are gone forever, and it just makes it
so I have to revisit those betrayals, and that's why
(15:42):
I feel so sad, you know. But yes, there is
some vindication, and for that to be happening at the
same time as the sports stuff, like two issues that
I've just been you know, stalked and harassed and threatened
with violence and lost so much over to them both
kind of hummed to fruition and feel vindigated at the
(16:04):
same time. Is really meaningful, but there's still just a
tinge of sadness because, like I said, I'm sure you
see this. For the Democrats, they just think everyone's being
really mean to Fauci right now. They don't think, oh,
those other people were right. They think the world is
being mean to Fauci.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
And I think that's.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
What frustrates me the most about this, because, as you
pointed out, you paid a professional price for telling the
truth and standing up for what was right. So many
people did a lot of even just these epidemiologists and
scientists pob doctor like Johnny and EDI's or Scott atlests
okay about a target, they were intact their families were
threatened in some cases, like and these these weren't like
(16:44):
quacks posting on Reddit it from their mom's baseline, like
these were like world renown.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
A scientists who were warning us.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
And so many people like you or them, or you know,
so many of us who tried telling the truth. You know,
we faced some sort of price to pay, whether it's
friendship's work, you know, and then he's all sitting pretty
like Fauci, Like that's reading. There was a report last
year that his net worth surged to about fifteen million
dollars by the end of twenty twenty three. So between
(17:16):
the January twenty nineteen before COVID hit and then surged
from seven point sixty million, so he to fifteen.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So he's sitting pretty. You know, he got all the
celebrity during COVID. He's pardoned. He was on a lot
with his wife the other day. He pled the fifth
one hundred and eleven, you know, like he's fine.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, And as you pointed out, like people who had
family businesses, it'd be closed, you know, everything that they're
like generations of hard work.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Yes, small twenty five million people were laid off in
twenty twenty. I'm sure that was a really tough time
for those people. Small businesses went under. People said to
buy the loved ones over an iPad. I know family
who have children that killed themselves. I know another family
who lost a child to a drug overdose, a fifteen
(18:06):
year old girl.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
They don't get that back.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
You know.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
I can warn my own losses they're nothing compared to
what these other I mean it's everyone's loss that brings
me to tears. It's not just myself, though everybody calls
me a liar and a grifter and a self centered
piece of garbage.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I cry for.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
All the loss. It's awful.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Those people they don't get their children back, and he
just gets to have everything. And not one mind has
been changed on the very pro lockdown provas you know,
Covidian kind of, but their minds aren't changed from this.
I mean my phone and his hope, because I don't
think he actually cares that much about money. I don't
think that's his driving force. I think it's all the
(18:46):
sort of reputational.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Stuff that he cares about.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
He obviously loved feeling like a big shot and talking
to Julia Roberts and Barbara Streisan and like that's what
floats his boat.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
I just hope, broadly that his reputation is in tech
matters enough that he knows it, because that's what hurts him,
and I want I want that for him.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
No, I know, I wrote this down for it.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
So yeah, we had a thirty percent jump and overdose
deaths during COVID scoring. The suicide attempts nearly two hundred
thousand permanent business closures, the steepest decline in student test
course in modern American education. As a result, unemployment at
one point was fourteen point seven percent and inflation hit
is forty or high at one point. So it's like
the amount of death and destruction that this man caused.
(19:30):
Do you think have we learned any lessons? I mean,
you would mention that obviously liberals are still what you
used to be a democrat, but I was, yeah, you know,
but it's like you mentioned that there's still people who
are like doubling down. They view him as a sympathetic figure,
you know, they think he's being attacked. But like, do
you how do you think we would react as a
society in the next pandemic? Like, how many of us
(19:53):
do you think have learned lessons from this?
Speaker 4 (19:57):
That's a good that's a good question. Well, I think
that we've sort of tried it. Remember with Ponta virus,
the red thing they were trying there, there were other
little ones. No one's really buying it anymore. I mean,
here was the problem to my mind with this, because lockdowns,
from my perspective, were the original sin. Once we allowed
that to happen, we were kind of screwed. I don't
(20:18):
think people will stand for and in the beginning, it
was such a small percentage that were against lockdowns. Even
Republicans were like, yeah, it's okay, two weeks, six weeks.
They got sick of it after maybe six weeks, but
at almost everyone was on board from the beginning.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I don't think that would be the case anymore.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
I think anyone, a libertarian, a right leaning person, I
think more people would resist a lockdown. I think we
could get to I mean, you're gonna say, this doesn't
sound like a big number. I think we could get
thirty or forty percent of the population to resist, versus
what we had, which was under ten.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I guess I didn't.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I guess maybe I should have known because it's human nature,
but I guess I didn't realize just the ability to
critically think, and then also the desire to be accepted
in society, Yeah, was so prevalent.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Yeah, I think that's right. And if you can if
you can get that acceptance and feel virtuous at the
same time for doing nothing, I mean not so you know,
it's hard to resist for people, and you also have
to remember people who are scared.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I mean, I think you.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Show your true colors how you behave when you're afraid.
But that fear was instilled. And the essential kind of
deal that the government offered was if you give us O,
if you give us your freedom, we'll keep you safe.
But they couldn't do that without terrifying the population, right,
I mean, there was a constantactic or on TV every day.
(21:49):
Remember what that was like? You had like red, yell
and green. You woke up every morning we were waiting
for orange so we could go outside in San Francisco.
And people were terrified, and people behave very, very poorly
when they're scared.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
It's hard to resist.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
You know.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I don't know what it says about me that I
don't care about being virtuous.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Or accepted, but well, I don't care about seeming virtuous.
I care about I don't care about hearing that way
because I feel like I have been.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Virtuous in the last in the last well twenty years.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
You know.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
I don't do it for snaps or collaps. I do
it because I think it's.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Right there you go, and then and before we go,
where can people go to support XXXY?
Speaker 1 (22:35):
And also Sophie Cunningham right now, with all this nonsense
going on.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Okay, well, support the.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
Brand at xx dash xy athletics dot com. We're the
only brand taking us down for safe sports for women,
fair competition. We are leading the charge in making sure
that she has supporters at every game for the rest
of this regular season. But we're planning right now, rallies in.
(23:02):
Where are we going next? In Chicago, in Indianapolis, and
we're hoping in New York. We're working on that. I
we don't want to go to New York real quick.
Didn't interrupt you, but yeah, keep going because I'm here. Yep, Okay, great,
I will let you know for sure. We just wanted
to know she's supported and she's not alone. It's not
just for Sophie. It's for all the girls who stood up.
It's for Honanie Wilson who got spit on in the
(23:23):
Seattle game. She's a sixteen year old girl, the one
who's screamed at by the co owner of the Storm.
We just want all those girls to know they're supportive,
and like I said, we come and love. We bring balloons,
we bring T shirts. We're having fun. They're yelling at us,
but we're there to just celebrate this outspokenness and the
momentum that we have, so we're gonna keep going. You
can follow with me if you want to kind of
(23:45):
know about what's going on on that brend. It's just
my name on Twitter. That's where I'm most active, Jennifer Say.
And if you buy something from the brand, it helps
us do more rallies. Honestly, I mean it helps us
keep this going. And we're not an advocacy brand. We're
an actual clothing brand. We're like Nike or Lula. We
make outstanding athletic apparel. Don't buy from brands that don't
support women. Don't do it.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
You don't have to sacrifice. We have the best quality.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
I fir said, you're a badass. We appreciate you and
what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Keep it up.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Thanks for having me, Lisa.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
That was Jennifer Say, the founder and CEO of xx
x Y Athletics.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
We appreciate her for making the time.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday
and Thursday.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
You can listen throughout the week.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Also want to think John Cassio and my producer for
putting the show together.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Until next time,
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show News
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Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
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