Wisconsin’s race for governor is shaping up to be one of the most consequential—and ideologically divided—contests of the 2026 election.
Lisa Boothe is joined by veteran Wisconsin political strategist Keith Gilkes, former chief of staff and campaign manager for Gov. Scott Walker, to break down the potential general election battle between Republican Tom Tiffany and Democratic Socialist Francesca Hong.
Gilkes explains why Hong’s rise has upended the Democratic primary, how her progressive record and past comments could play with Wisconsin’s independent and moderate voters, and why Tiffany may have an opportunity to overcome a difficult national political environment for Republicans.
They also examine Tiffany’s path to victory, the importance of campaign fundraising and paid media, Wisconsin’s notoriously tough political press corps, and lessons Gilkes learned from managing major statewide campaigns—including Tommy Thompson’s 2012 Senate race against Tammy Baldwin.
Plus, Lisa and Keith look back at working together on the Thompson campaign, how Wisconsin politics helped launch Lisa’s television career, and what Republicans must do between now and November to win one of the country’s most important gubernatorial races.
Follow Clay & Buck on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/clayandbuck
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
So we are latching the state of Wisconsin tonight to
find out who the Republican and the Democrat nominees for
the Gubner Toro race are going to be. Most likely,
it's going to be socialist liberal Francesca Hank, who has
said a lot of crazy things like wanting to defund
the police, like wanting you to cancel Thanksgiving, also saying
(00:26):
that Coolvers, which is an institution in the state of Wisconsin,
is full of old white racist people. And then you've
got Tom Tiffany, who is most likely going to be
the Republican nominee. He is a member of Congress from
northern Wisconsin, very conservative House Freedom concuss. So this is
going to be the fight in the state of Wisconsin.
(00:46):
Wisconsin is near and dearer to my heart because I
used to work in the state. I was the communications
director of the Tommy Thompson for Senate campaign back in
twenty twelve, So I love the state of Wisconsin spent
some time there. So we're going to have my friend,
also old boss, my old campaign manager, Keith Gilkes on
the show to break down this race. No one knows
(01:06):
Wisconsin better than him. He has also worked for the
Republican Governor's Association also served previously as Governor Scott Walker's
chief political advisor and his chiefest staff. Previously, he was
the campaign manager for Tommy Thompson per Senate. That's how
we know each other. Give made it a big impact
on my life and set me on the trajectory and
that I'm on now. So no one knows Wisconsin better
(01:27):
than Keith, and he's going to break it all down
for us.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Well, Keith Gilbs, it's great to have you on the
podcast for the people listening.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Used to be my boss. How was that? It was
a delight. Oh, it's great to have you along. And
we had some interesting times and I totally like, you know,
I always have fun in all campaigns, as I always
tell people, So it's like this was always a treat
to get to meet new people and have really good professionals.
(01:59):
And you know, I was back a few years, but
you know, we had a lot of fun. I thought, Oh,
it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I remember I interviewed with you on a Wednesday, I think,
got the job on Friday, and then moved to Wisconsin
that Monday. And like one thing, what I really always
like You've always been one of my favorite bosses. And
I'll tell you why, because, like that was a big
job for me because you know, I had previously worked
on house races and at the NCC in Capitol Hill,
but this was statewide. I was, you know, managing a team,
(02:28):
so it was, you know, it was a big jump.
And I remember like when I would come into your
office and if I ever had any like self doubt
or question myself, you would kind of be like, well,
what do you think you should do? And then I
would respond and then you'd like, well, go do it.
You know, I hired you for a reason, and it
was just kind of like a nice process of sort
of trusting yourself, you know, and kind of like building
up that confidence.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
And then I always had a standing in order with
all staff. If you're going to do something stupid, call
me or come into my office to talk to me,
and I'll puck you out of it. I didn't always
want to do stupid.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
And then also I started doing TV because of you,
because that was the first time working on the campaign.
You had me to do Spin Room after the debates,
and then I like really enjoyed doing TV. And so
after that campaign, I was like, I kind of think
I want to do something in this And if it
had not been for that campaign, I don't think I
would have ever fallen in love with doing TV.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, one, you were fantastic at it. And then two
when he asked me whether you should do it or not,
I was like, absolutely, you're fantastic at it, Go do it.
So thank you just needs somebody to encourage it.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Well, you're a great boss, and so I'm glad this
is perfect for this because we're gonna talking about Wisconsin
douvenatorial race. And you know Wisconsin like the back of
your hand. You've managed Scott Walker races. You were as
cheap as staff, you worked in the state legislature. You
obviously were the campaign manager for Tommy Thompson for Senate,
which is how we know each other because I was
working as your communications director. So I mean, no one
(04:00):
knows the state of Wisconsin like you do. We've got
this cubernatorial race. We'll find out tonight, at least on
the left, who ends up being the nominee. It looks
like it's going to be Francesca Hong. Is that how
you see it or kind of how do you see
things closing in tonight as we start to get the
results here in the next few hours.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I would say the momentum is clearly on her side.
The trend line in the polling is definitely in her favor.
She's widening the gap between her and David Crowley, who's
her next closest competitor. You know, this entirety of the
DEM primary has been crazy, Like, if you haven't been
following it, go back, Google it and just watch the
(04:43):
timeline of everything going on. We had a front runner
drop out from the DEM nomination because of campaign finance
issues and scandals, and then you know, Governor Evers recruited
a candidate who had suspended his campaign to come back
into the campaign because of the belief that Francisca Hong,
who's the Democrat socialist candidate in the DEM primary, her
(05:09):
surgeon caused a lot of consternation among the Democrat liberal
elite in Madison, and so they went back recruited David Crowley,
who's a Milaukee County executive out of suspended suspending his
campaign and reinstating his campaign, and then Governor Eavers going
one hundred percent behind him, endorsing him, getting him to
(05:33):
run quite honestly though, the hard part I was having
in terms of figuring out why he would do this
was because I just look and I saw no message.
He had no bravatas to begin with, he wasn't very competitive,
and then all of a sudden, you think, you bring
him back, he's going to be better. And nothing has
(05:55):
dissuaded me from the fact that I still believe it's
Francesca Hong winning the dem nam nation and she is
going to be an interesting candidate to have in the
state of Wisconsin, and then more importantly for Tom Tiffany
as the Republican candidate most likely coming in out of
his primary today running against her.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Well, and what's interesting about this, Keith, is that so
Francesca Hang, she's from Madison, Wisconsin, which is Dane County.
It's sort of like the liberal turnout hub for Democrats,
you know. And then you've got Tom Tiffany, and he
represents the northern part of the state, more rural conservative.
He's House Freedom Caucus. So you really have like these
(06:38):
two candidates from totally different parts.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Of the state.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
One on the left, like very very very far to
the left. I wouldn't say he's you know as far
to the right as she is to the left, but
you know, very conservative on the right. So it's like
you have these like the clearest contrast you could possibly
have in a race. Is that sort of how you
see it in terms of kind of like setting this up.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yes, yeah, there is the most no mistaking where each
of these candidates come from at the end of the day,
and it's going to be a clear decisive choice for voters.
You either believe in socialism and a toward socialism with
Francesca Honk as a Democratic companee, or you believe in
Palm Tiffany and a free market, you know, more libertiy
(07:24):
in view of the world than Francesca Honk has and
less government, lower taxes, less spending. Is a absolute clear
contrast between the two candidates at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
And what's interesting is, like the national environment right now,
it's not the best for Republicans. You look at the
real clear look, real clear of politics average at least
in the generic ballot, and Democrats are up by seven. Now,
sometimes we see with gubnatorial races they don't necessarily follow
the trend lines as much because it's more state specific,
(07:59):
Like what are you going to do for me here?
You know, sometimes you can kind of counter the national
law environment, but Wisconsin has a history of going in
the opposite director of the White House, So you know,
kind of how do you see that playing out in
this state of Wisconsin with kind of all those dynamics
at play.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
If the Democrats had a clear nominee who was, you know,
a center left type candidate, someone that can unite the
left and appeal to the center, you know, Tom Tiffany
would be losing by double digits in this kind of
political environment. To your point, Wisconsin is a footbal state,
(08:39):
and we really have a general rule that whoever's in
the White House that that party will suffer in the midterms,
especially gubern Ferral here in Wisconsin. That's just has traditionally
been kind of the pattern. But this year has been
the exception to the rule because of the fact that
the Democrats are willing to nominate a Democratic socialist and
(09:03):
we have no business winning this gouminatory election, but we
have a very good chance. And Tom Tiffany was the
right candidate at the right time. And you know, I
always tell people that, you know, campaigns are a binary
choice and event you get down to two people and
you got to decide who is who's the best leader,
(09:24):
who best represents your values as a voter, and where
you want the stay of Wisconsin taken. And this stark
contrast has provided an opportunity for Tom Tiffany to excel.
And I think, really he is not only a good candidate,
I think he's run one of the best campaigns we've
(09:46):
seen in a very long time since Governor Walker back
in twenty ten and the recall in twenty twelve. I
think he's right up there in terms of running a
near flawless campaign so far has put him in in
a strong position to emerge as the winter come November.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
And that means a lot coming from you, because you're
really really good at what you do. So if you
are impressed with the way they're running things, then you
know that means they're doing a good job.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
There was a market partly more than importantly, I'm very
hypercritical as the candidates who do a terrible job, especially
in my old age.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Well, you know we all get grouge heres, Yes, yes,
you know. There's a Marquet poll at the end of
last month that had Tom Tiffany leading Hong it was
like within the margin of bear. I think it was
like three, but he was up by I believe seven
with independence. You know, we've already seen some weird stuff
from Hong, like just resurface tweets like wanting to cancel
(10:48):
Thanksgiving and like not liking Culver's. Keith she said Culver's
was like full of old white racist people, and like
that's Culver's is why I gained so much weight on
the campus.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yes, but she starts are phenomenal, so.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Good, and you know, campaigns are stressful, you know, all
the time to work out, you're like living in a
hotel by gain so much, way too much colds. But anyways,
so she's like Katie on Culvers all this like just
you know the abnormal andree you're talking about here, you know,
just like Katie life kind of things. So I imagine, like,
what do you think the opposition research. I don't even
(11:22):
think they've like we haven't even started seeing the extent
of the past comments and some of her crazy positions,
And what do you think the opposition research is going
to end up looking like on her?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
I think people would be shocked on quite honestly, I
mean I just start with the legislation she's introduced at
the state level as a state representative located in the
very heart of Madison at the end of the day,
and so you see these ultraliberal policies, these socialists, these
progressive policies that she's put forward. And I'm just talking
(11:58):
about policy. Then you move on to social media and
the things that she has said and stated, like canceling Thanksgiving,
and it just like it feeds a pattern of disqualification
for holding the office of governor. But she is firmly
of the belief in the Democratic Party. And we'll see
(12:21):
what the percentages are tonight, but I mean, nearly fifty
percent of the Democratic Party is going to end up
voting for her and she becomes the nominee. And I
just think that's an indictment on where the state of
that party is headed at this particular juncture. And the
problem is it is not acceptable in the state of Wisconsin.
(12:42):
You know, maybe it is acceptable in New York City.
Maybe it's acceptable in the state of New York. I
don't know. But my point being that, like these policy
positions are so far out of the mainstream that I
just don't feel that moderates even moderate Democrats on top
of independence, I think when they see that term, socialists
(13:06):
are going to take take stock of whether this is
a person they truly want representing them or not. Like
I hope there's still a segment of the Democratic Party
that still believes in America and capitalism. And you know,
we're celebrating two hundred and fifty years of one of
the strongest fascinations ever created in the history of this
(13:28):
world and humanity, and you know, sometimes you got to
question whether elements of the Democratic Party actually believe in
that anymore. And that's sad.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Got to take a quick commercial break. More in Wisconsin.
On the other side, I remember Keith working with the
press Corps in Wisconsin is brutal.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
They are, oh.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
My god, like still I remember it was just like
every day for us on the campaign trail, and like
Stott Walker is probably that was probably even worse for
you guys on that race, but I didn't work on that,
especially with the recall, but with the Tommy Thompson it's
like they are just brutal, like you can't catch any breaks.
They're always looking to screw you over, Like there's always
(14:14):
tough questions, it's always you know, it's like every day.
I remember it was just like we're battling with the
media every single freaking day. It was fun, but you
know it and they don't. And that's not the same
on the left, Like they're going to treat her with
kid gloves. You're going to go after Tom Tiffany. So
like that's a real battle for the Tiffany campaign. I
mean tell it, like just kind of break down the
(14:35):
press corps for the like listeners at home who like
don't understand what we've had to go through when dealing
with these people.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, And I just want to reinforce what Lisa is
saying is like I've had a number of staff coming
into the state to work on campaigns. It's sometimes been
difficult to find communications staff that are qualified and capable,
and so I always looking far and wide to find
the right person for our campaign. And Lisa, You're not
(15:05):
the only person that has that opinion and that experience.
There's multiple campaign communications directors and press secretaries who are like,
what is it with this state? They are The press
corps here is rapid in slightly insane, and I understand
that I've learned to like adapt to it, so maybe
(15:28):
it's a little bit lost on me, but I do
truly understand what you're saying. I mean, the challenge for
anybody that runs as a Republican in the state is
there isn't anybody out there in the media that's gonna
carry forward your message. So it all comes down to
paid media. You've got to go out there and you've
got to tell your story and tell it on your
terms and with a lot of money. And over the
(15:52):
passive election cycles since Scott Walker, the challenge here in
this state is we've been losing a lot and that's
because we haven't had the financial resources like Scott Walker
was able to raise in order to take that message
strictly to the voters. When we have those resources, and
when we do it, we succeed, we win. And the
(16:14):
great need is about Tom Tiffany is he's got those
financial resources, so he doesn't need the media to carry
his message, and they're never going to be sympathetic to him.
Even when there's a Democrat socialist on the ticket for
the Democrats, they still are never going to be sympathetic
or willing to, you know, provide both sides of the
(16:35):
story in terms of issue positions, and Powell Sees, etc.
But it is all about the money. It is all
about taking your message to the voters. And Tom Tiffany's
doing this for the first time since Scott Walker. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I remember or Tommy like when I first started working
on the campaign, he thought a like too young, you know,
and so he would like took around that I was
about to celebrate my sweet sixteenth and like, oh this girl,
what can she you know, And then after he kind
of like saw me interact with the media and heard
me like dealing with some of them, he was like
started calling me the vipe Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yes, Lisa's nickname on the campaign was Viper. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
And then we became friends because I think he was
like all right, you know, and like and also you know,
we would kind of go back and forth with each other,
but then there was like this mutual respect and I
remember I really respected his family and like he like
they made a bunch of calls for people, also paid
everyone out.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Campaigns very rarely do that, and so I've always really
admired him for that.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
But before we.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Go map out for us, because you know, you know
this better than anyone, what does Tom Tiffany have to
do what's his past the victory.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
It's very straightforward, you know. And what I love is
when you can start talking about campaigns in a very simplistic,
straightforward way in terms of strategy. If it is simple
and straightforward, it means you're you're on a path victory
and it's taking his current message keep amplifying it. He's
(18:05):
built great image of himself. If you look at the poling,
you see him with positive favorable ratings. People know who
he is, they can recognize his name, they understand what
he stands for, and he needs to keep pushing that.
He can't stop, he can't relent. And if you remember
(18:25):
back to the Tommy Thompson versus now Senator Tammy Baldwin
from the state, one of the most liberal members of
the Senate. Her ability to beat Tommy Thompson was very simple.
Tommy came out of a primary that was a very
difficult fight and we had to rebuild the campaign, rebuild
(18:46):
the bank account. And while we were doing that, Tammy Baldwin,
who is the sole Democrat in the race, took all
of our money and went out and painted a picture
that is so untrue and disrespectful of Governor Thompson in
his service both to the state and to this country.
And the problem was it was so overwhelming, and the
(19:07):
message was so straightforward in terms of characterizing as somebody
that wasn't for Wisconsin anymore. It became overwhelmingly never could
recover from that, and that ultimately was the problem. It
was money and Tammy Baldwin's message that changed voters opinions
of him from the time that he was governor and
(19:31):
HHS secretary under George W. Bush. He did great things.
He accomplished more than probably anybody in the history of
this state in a political career in service to our country.
But it was all for not because in that time
frame post primary mid August to early part of September,
(19:52):
Tammy Baldwin had all the money, all the resources and
painted an entirely different picture of him than whatvoters had
come to know him as. And it is just so
unfortunate and is one of my lessons learned, is like,
you cannot leave yourself vulnerable right after the primary. And
Tom Tiffany's in a strong position, strong financially, with good
(20:16):
messaging that he's already put out there, and he just
needs to follow through, go through the finish line. Show
the differences. This is there's no mistaking the differences in
these two candidates, and Tom has should have no problem
drawing those distinctions. And so keep raising the money, keep
getting the message out there, and understand the media is
(20:39):
never going to be your friend. Don't accept it. Just
go go tell the voters what you want to tell
them so that they understand what their choices are.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Oh that's good, Yeah, because I mean Tommy the governor Thompson.
Bill Clinton stole his welfare reforms and data Wisconsin because
they were working.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
So yep, Clinton stole Tommy Thompson's ideas and made him
his own in order to get re elected president. Like
there is, it is unequivocal. That's what happened. And that
that just tells you what a thoughtful, great conservative Tommy
Thompson was that mill Clinton would steal that and get
(21:20):
himself re elected in nineteen ninety six using Tommy Thompson's platform.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
So so so a little plagiarism, Yes, yes, exactly. And
you've got your own firm that you're running now, Platform Communications,
Keith Giggs. We've been able to stay in touch over
the years. You've made a big impact of my life
and that campaign definitely set me on the directory of
Mint Now So forever grateful and always good to catch up.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
My favorite part is watching you on Fox News. So
I love what you're doing. I love the commentary to
provide the perspective and you know you've earned it and
deserve it.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Thank you, my friend. That was Keith Gilgs, founder and
print Platform Communications. Appreciate him for coming on the show.
Appreciate you guys at home for listening. I also want
to thank John, Cassie and my producer for putting the
show together. Until next time,
So we are latching the state of Wisconsin tonight to
find out who the Republican and the Democrat nominees for
the Gubner Toro race are going to be. Most likely,
it's going to be socialist liberal Francesca Hank, who has
said a lot of crazy things like wanting to defund
the police, like wanting you to cancel Thanksgiving, also saying
(00:26):
that Coolvers, which is an institution in the state of Wisconsin,
is full of old white racist people. And then you've
got Tom Tiffany, who is most likely going to be
the Republican nominee. He is a member of Congress from
northern Wisconsin, very conservative House Freedom concuss. So this is
going to be the fight in the state of Wisconsin.
(00:46):
Wisconsin is near and dearer to my heart because I
used to work in the state. I was the communications
director of the Tommy Thompson for Senate campaign back in
twenty twelve, So I love the state of Wisconsin spent
some time there. So we're going to have my friend,
also old boss, my old campaign manager, Keith Gilkes on
the show to break down this race. No one knows
(01:06):
Wisconsin better than him. He has also worked for the
Republican Governor's Association also served previously as Governor Scott Walker's
chief political advisor and his chiefest staff. Previously, he was
the campaign manager for Tommy Thompson per Senate. That's how
we know each other. Give made it a big impact
on my life and set me on the trajectory and
that I'm on now. So no one knows Wisconsin better
(01:27):
than Keith, and he's going to break it all down
for us.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Well, Keith Gilbs, it's great to have you on the
podcast for the people listening.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Used to be my boss. How was that? It was
a delight. Oh, it's great to have you along. And
we had some interesting times and I totally like, you know,
I always have fun in all campaigns, as I always
tell people, So it's like this was always a treat
to get to meet new people and have really good professionals.
(01:59):
And you know, I was back a few years, but
you know, we had a lot of fun. I thought, Oh,
it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I remember I interviewed with you on a Wednesday, I think,
got the job on Friday, and then moved to Wisconsin
that Monday. And like one thing, what I really always
like You've always been one of my favorite bosses. And
I'll tell you why, because, like that was a big
job for me because you know, I had previously worked
on house races and at the NCC in Capitol Hill,
but this was statewide. I was, you know, managing a team,
(02:28):
so it was, you know, it was a big jump.
And I remember like when I would come into your
office and if I ever had any like self doubt
or question myself, you would kind of be like, well,
what do you think you should do? And then I
would respond and then you'd like, well, go do it.
You know, I hired you for a reason, and it
was just kind of like a nice process of sort
of trusting yourself, you know, and kind of like building
up that confidence.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
And then I always had a standing in order with
all staff. If you're going to do something stupid, call
me or come into my office to talk to me,
and I'll puck you out of it. I didn't always
want to do stupid.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
And then also I started doing TV because of you,
because that was the first time working on the campaign.
You had me to do Spin Room after the debates,
and then I like really enjoyed doing TV. And so
after that campaign, I was like, I kind of think
I want to do something in this And if it
had not been for that campaign, I don't think I
would have ever fallen in love with doing TV.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, one, you were fantastic at it. And then two
when he asked me whether you should do it or not,
I was like, absolutely, you're fantastic at it, Go do it.
So thank you just needs somebody to encourage it.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Well, you're a great boss, and so I'm glad this
is perfect for this because we're gonna talking about Wisconsin
douvenatorial race. And you know Wisconsin like the back of
your hand. You've managed Scott Walker races. You were as
cheap as staff, you worked in the state legislature. You
obviously were the campaign manager for Tommy Thompson for Senate,
which is how we know each other because I was
working as your communications director. So I mean, no one
(04:00):
knows the state of Wisconsin like you do. We've got
this cubernatorial race. We'll find out tonight, at least on
the left, who ends up being the nominee. It looks
like it's going to be Francesca Hong. Is that how
you see it or kind of how do you see
things closing in tonight as we start to get the
results here in the next few hours.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I would say the momentum is clearly on her side.
The trend line in the polling is definitely in her favor.
She's widening the gap between her and David Crowley, who's
her next closest competitor. You know, this entirety of the
DEM primary has been crazy, Like, if you haven't been
following it, go back, Google it and just watch the
(04:43):
timeline of everything going on. We had a front runner
drop out from the DEM nomination because of campaign finance
issues and scandals, and then you know, Governor Evers recruited
a candidate who had suspended his campaign to come back
into the campaign because of the belief that Francisca Hong,
who's the Democrat socialist candidate in the DEM primary, her
(05:09):
surgeon caused a lot of consternation among the Democrat liberal
elite in Madison, and so they went back recruited David Crowley,
who's a Milaukee County executive out of suspended suspending his
campaign and reinstating his campaign, and then Governor Eavers going
one hundred percent behind him, endorsing him, getting him to
(05:33):
run quite honestly though, the hard part I was having
in terms of figuring out why he would do this
was because I just look and I saw no message.
He had no bravatas to begin with, he wasn't very competitive,
and then all of a sudden, you think, you bring
him back, he's going to be better. And nothing has
(05:55):
dissuaded me from the fact that I still believe it's
Francesca Hong winning the dem nam nation and she is
going to be an interesting candidate to have in the
state of Wisconsin, and then more importantly for Tom Tiffany
as the Republican candidate most likely coming in out of
his primary today running against her.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Well, and what's interesting about this, Keith, is that so
Francesca Hang, she's from Madison, Wisconsin, which is Dane County.
It's sort of like the liberal turnout hub for Democrats,
you know. And then you've got Tom Tiffany, and he
represents the northern part of the state, more rural conservative.
He's House Freedom Caucus. So you really have like these
(06:38):
two candidates from totally different parts.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Of the state.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
One on the left, like very very very far to
the left. I wouldn't say he's you know as far
to the right as she is to the left, but
you know, very conservative on the right. So it's like
you have these like the clearest contrast you could possibly
have in a race. Is that sort of how you
see it in terms of kind of like setting this up.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yes, yeah, there is the most no mistaking where each
of these candidates come from at the end of the day,
and it's going to be a clear decisive choice for voters.
You either believe in socialism and a toward socialism with
Francesca Honk as a Democratic companee, or you believe in
Palm Tiffany and a free market, you know, more libertiy
(07:24):
in view of the world than Francesca Honk has and
less government, lower taxes, less spending. Is a absolute clear
contrast between the two candidates at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
And what's interesting is, like the national environment right now,
it's not the best for Republicans. You look at the
real clear look, real clear of politics average at least
in the generic ballot, and Democrats are up by seven. Now,
sometimes we see with gubnatorial races they don't necessarily follow
the trend lines as much because it's more state specific,
(07:59):
Like what are you going to do for me here?
You know, sometimes you can kind of counter the national
law environment, but Wisconsin has a history of going in
the opposite director of the White House, So you know,
kind of how do you see that playing out in
this state of Wisconsin with kind of all those dynamics
at play.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
If the Democrats had a clear nominee who was, you know,
a center left type candidate, someone that can unite the
left and appeal to the center, you know, Tom Tiffany
would be losing by double digits in this kind of
political environment. To your point, Wisconsin is a footbal state,
(08:39):
and we really have a general rule that whoever's in
the White House that that party will suffer in the midterms,
especially gubern Ferral here in Wisconsin. That's just has traditionally
been kind of the pattern. But this year has been
the exception to the rule because of the fact that
the Democrats are willing to nominate a Democratic socialist and
(09:03):
we have no business winning this gouminatory election, but we
have a very good chance. And Tom Tiffany was the
right candidate at the right time. And you know, I
always tell people that, you know, campaigns are a binary
choice and event you get down to two people and
you got to decide who is who's the best leader,
(09:24):
who best represents your values as a voter, and where
you want the stay of Wisconsin taken. And this stark
contrast has provided an opportunity for Tom Tiffany to excel.
And I think, really he is not only a good candidate,
I think he's run one of the best campaigns we've
(09:46):
seen in a very long time since Governor Walker back
in twenty ten and the recall in twenty twelve. I
think he's right up there in terms of running a
near flawless campaign so far has put him in in
a strong position to emerge as the winter come November.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
And that means a lot coming from you, because you're
really really good at what you do. So if you
are impressed with the way they're running things, then you
know that means they're doing a good job.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
There was a market partly more than importantly, I'm very
hypercritical as the candidates who do a terrible job, especially
in my old age.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Well, you know we all get grouge heres, Yes, yes,
you know. There's a Marquet poll at the end of
last month that had Tom Tiffany leading Hong it was
like within the margin of bear. I think it was
like three, but he was up by I believe seven
with independence. You know, we've already seen some weird stuff
from Hong, like just resurface tweets like wanting to cancel
(10:48):
Thanksgiving and like not liking Culver's. Keith she said Culver's
was like full of old white racist people, and like
that's Culver's is why I gained so much weight on
the campus.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yes, but she starts are phenomenal, so.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Good, and you know, campaigns are stressful, you know, all
the time to work out, you're like living in a
hotel by gain so much, way too much colds. But anyways,
so she's like Katie on Culvers all this like just
you know the abnormal andree you're talking about here, you know,
just like Katie life kind of things. So I imagine, like,
what do you think the opposition research. I don't even
(11:22):
think they've like we haven't even started seeing the extent
of the past comments and some of her crazy positions,
And what do you think the opposition research is going
to end up looking like on her?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
I think people would be shocked on quite honestly, I
mean I just start with the legislation she's introduced at
the state level as a state representative located in the
very heart of Madison at the end of the day,
and so you see these ultraliberal policies, these socialists, these
progressive policies that she's put forward. And I'm just talking
(11:58):
about policy. Then you move on to social media and
the things that she has said and stated, like canceling Thanksgiving,
and it just like it feeds a pattern of disqualification
for holding the office of governor. But she is firmly
of the belief in the Democratic Party. And we'll see
(12:21):
what the percentages are tonight, but I mean, nearly fifty
percent of the Democratic Party is going to end up
voting for her and she becomes the nominee. And I
just think that's an indictment on where the state of
that party is headed at this particular juncture. And the
problem is it is not acceptable in the state of Wisconsin.
(12:42):
You know, maybe it is acceptable in New York City.
Maybe it's acceptable in the state of New York. I
don't know. But my point being that, like these policy
positions are so far out of the mainstream that I
just don't feel that moderates even moderate Democrats on top
of independence, I think when they see that term, socialists
(13:06):
are going to take take stock of whether this is
a person they truly want representing them or not. Like
I hope there's still a segment of the Democratic Party
that still believes in America and capitalism. And you know,
we're celebrating two hundred and fifty years of one of
the strongest fascinations ever created in the history of this
(13:28):
world and humanity, and you know, sometimes you got to
question whether elements of the Democratic Party actually believe in
that anymore. And that's sad.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Got to take a quick commercial break. More in Wisconsin.
On the other side, I remember Keith working with the
press Corps in Wisconsin is brutal.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
They are, oh.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
My god, like still I remember it was just like
every day for us on the campaign trail, and like
Stott Walker is probably that was probably even worse for
you guys on that race, but I didn't work on that,
especially with the recall, but with the Tommy Thompson it's
like they are just brutal, like you can't catch any breaks.
They're always looking to screw you over, Like there's always
(14:14):
tough questions, it's always you know, it's like every day.
I remember it was just like we're battling with the
media every single freaking day. It was fun, but you
know it and they don't. And that's not the same
on the left, Like they're going to treat her with
kid gloves. You're going to go after Tom Tiffany. So
like that's a real battle for the Tiffany campaign. I
mean tell it, like just kind of break down the
(14:35):
press corps for the like listeners at home who like
don't understand what we've had to go through when dealing
with these people.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, And I just want to reinforce what Lisa is
saying is like I've had a number of staff coming
into the state to work on campaigns. It's sometimes been
difficult to find communications staff that are qualified and capable,
and so I always looking far and wide to find
the right person for our campaign. And Lisa, You're not
(15:05):
the only person that has that opinion and that experience.
There's multiple campaign communications directors and press secretaries who are like,
what is it with this state? They are The press
corps here is rapid in slightly insane, and I understand
that I've learned to like adapt to it, so maybe
(15:28):
it's a little bit lost on me, but I do
truly understand what you're saying. I mean, the challenge for
anybody that runs as a Republican in the state is
there isn't anybody out there in the media that's gonna
carry forward your message. So it all comes down to
paid media. You've got to go out there and you've
got to tell your story and tell it on your
terms and with a lot of money. And over the
(15:52):
passive election cycles since Scott Walker, the challenge here in
this state is we've been losing a lot and that's
because we haven't had the financial resources like Scott Walker
was able to raise in order to take that message
strictly to the voters. When we have those resources, and
when we do it, we succeed, we win. And the
(16:14):
great need is about Tom Tiffany is he's got those
financial resources, so he doesn't need the media to carry
his message, and they're never going to be sympathetic to him.
Even when there's a Democrat socialist on the ticket for
the Democrats, they still are never going to be sympathetic
or willing to, you know, provide both sides of the
(16:35):
story in terms of issue positions, and Powell Sees, etc.
But it is all about the money. It is all
about taking your message to the voters. And Tom Tiffany's
doing this for the first time since Scott Walker. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I remember or Tommy like when I first started working
on the campaign, he thought a like too young, you know,
and so he would like took around that I was
about to celebrate my sweet sixteenth and like, oh this girl,
what can she you know, And then after he kind
of like saw me interact with the media and heard
me like dealing with some of them, he was like
started calling me the vipe Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yes, Lisa's nickname on the campaign was Viper. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
And then we became friends because I think he was
like all right, you know, and like and also you know,
we would kind of go back and forth with each other,
but then there was like this mutual respect and I
remember I really respected his family and like he like
they made a bunch of calls for people, also paid
everyone out.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Campaigns very rarely do that, and so I've always really
admired him for that.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
But before we.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Go map out for us, because you know, you know
this better than anyone, what does Tom Tiffany have to
do what's his past the victory.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
It's very straightforward, you know. And what I love is
when you can start talking about campaigns in a very simplistic,
straightforward way in terms of strategy. If it is simple
and straightforward, it means you're you're on a path victory
and it's taking his current message keep amplifying it. He's
(18:05):
built great image of himself. If you look at the poling,
you see him with positive favorable ratings. People know who
he is, they can recognize his name, they understand what
he stands for, and he needs to keep pushing that.
He can't stop, he can't relent. And if you remember
(18:25):
back to the Tommy Thompson versus now Senator Tammy Baldwin
from the state, one of the most liberal members of
the Senate. Her ability to beat Tommy Thompson was very simple.
Tommy came out of a primary that was a very
difficult fight and we had to rebuild the campaign, rebuild
(18:46):
the bank account. And while we were doing that, Tammy Baldwin,
who is the sole Democrat in the race, took all
of our money and went out and painted a picture
that is so untrue and disrespectful of Governor Thompson in
his service both to the state and to this country.
And the problem was it was so overwhelming, and the
(19:07):
message was so straightforward in terms of characterizing as somebody
that wasn't for Wisconsin anymore. It became overwhelmingly never could
recover from that, and that ultimately was the problem. It
was money and Tammy Baldwin's message that changed voters opinions
of him from the time that he was governor and
(19:31):
HHS secretary under George W. Bush. He did great things.
He accomplished more than probably anybody in the history of
this state in a political career in service to our country.
But it was all for not because in that time
frame post primary mid August to early part of September,
(19:52):
Tammy Baldwin had all the money, all the resources and
painted an entirely different picture of him than whatvoters had
come to know him as. And it is just so
unfortunate and is one of my lessons learned, is like,
you cannot leave yourself vulnerable right after the primary. And
Tom Tiffany's in a strong position, strong financially, with good
(20:16):
messaging that he's already put out there, and he just
needs to follow through, go through the finish line. Show
the differences. This is there's no mistaking the differences in
these two candidates, and Tom has should have no problem
drawing those distinctions. And so keep raising the money, keep
getting the message out there, and understand the media is
(20:39):
never going to be your friend. Don't accept it. Just
go go tell the voters what you want to tell
them so that they understand what their choices are.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Oh that's good, Yeah, because I mean Tommy the governor Thompson.
Bill Clinton stole his welfare reforms and data Wisconsin because
they were working.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
So yep, Clinton stole Tommy Thompson's ideas and made him
his own in order to get re elected president. Like
there is, it is unequivocal. That's what happened. And that
that just tells you what a thoughtful, great conservative Tommy
Thompson was that mill Clinton would steal that and get
(21:20):
himself re elected in nineteen ninety six using Tommy Thompson's platform.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
So so so a little plagiarism, Yes, yes, exactly. And
you've got your own firm that you're running now, Platform Communications,
Keith Giggs. We've been able to stay in touch over
the years. You've made a big impact of my life
and that campaign definitely set me on the directory of
Mint Now So forever grateful and always good to catch up.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
My favorite part is watching you on Fox News. So
I love what you're doing. I love the commentary to
provide the perspective and you know you've earned it and
deserve it.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Thank you, my friend. That was Keith Gilgs, founder and
print Platform Communications. Appreciate him for coming on the show.
Appreciate you guys at home for listening. I also want
to thank John, Cassie and my producer for putting the
show together. Until next time,
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show News
Hosts And Creators
Clay Travis
Buck Sexton
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